PDA

View Full Version : Your Denver Broncos are now #5 in total offense and #3 in total defense


baja
12-02-2012, 07:04 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/team


That ain't chopped liver!

#3 in scoring offense @ 29.1

Houston is #2 @ 29.2

baja
12-02-2012, 07:08 PM
We are only 3/10s of one yard behind the Colts

Next week we could eaisly be top three in both O and D. When is the last time you saw that??

DenverBound
12-02-2012, 07:09 PM
We held Martin to 56 yards on the ground. Moreno had a better day statistically than Martin. That's fuggin impressive.

baja
12-02-2012, 07:13 PM
Moreno had a Jeckle and Hyde day. Good on one play his old slipping on the grass, lose shoe self on the next.

oubronco
12-02-2012, 07:16 PM
Keep choppin that wood

SeedReaver
12-02-2012, 07:30 PM
Keep choppin that wood
I prefer to keep cuttin that meat

That One Guy
12-02-2012, 07:50 PM
If someone had asked me, I'd have thought Martin had 100 or so yards today. I have no idea what I saw but 56 yards was not what I expected at all.

baja
12-02-2012, 08:08 PM
If someone had asked me, I'd have thought Martin had 100 or so yards today. I have no idea what I saw but 56 yards was not what I expected at all.

Want to be more surprised?

How many yards do you think Moreno had?

That One Guy
12-02-2012, 08:12 PM
Want to be more surprised?

How many yards do you think Moreno had?

Without looking, I'd say in the 80-90 range. Unfortunately, I think those probably came almost exclusively on about 7 runs. It looked like his options were either 1 or less or 7+. I'd much rather the dependable 4-6 yards on every rush.

baja
12-02-2012, 08:16 PM
Without looking, I'd say in the 80-90 range. Unfortunately, I think those probably came almost exclusively on about 7 runs. It looked like his options were either 1 or less or 7+. I'd much rather the dependable 4-6 yards on every rush.

Well not quite that good (59) but he lost some yards at the end of the game when we were running clock.

barryr
12-02-2012, 08:19 PM
Finally a team that is solid on both sides of the ball. It has been a long time coming.

lolcopter
12-02-2012, 08:21 PM
Best team since 98

Gogogogo

That One Guy
12-02-2012, 08:22 PM
Well not quite that good (59) but he lost some yards at the end of the game when we were running clock.

Wow. I swear I saw a half dozen 8-10 yard runs. I definitely would've thought he had more than that.

For how many there were singing his praises in the gameday thread, I'm absolutely shocked.

baja
12-02-2012, 08:26 PM
Wow. I swear I saw a half dozen 8-10 yard runs. I definitely would've thought he had more than that.

For how many there were singing his praises in the gameday thread, I'm absolutely shocked.

He did have another 14 receiving which surprised me, I thought he had a lot more.

Al Wilson
12-02-2012, 08:27 PM
Seriously I get more excited watching the defense play more than the offense. Watching Miller do his thang, getting sacks, stuffing the run, and scoring on defense. Exciting team that's for sure.

Nwp-Apap
12-02-2012, 08:31 PM
Wow. I swear I saw a half dozen 8-10 yard runs. I definitely would've thought he had more than that.

For how many there were singing his praises in the gameday thread, I'm absolutely shocked.

He played very well today. Bucs are the best run defense in the league. #1 in YPG and YPC.

He got no help from the OL though, that is for sure.

That One Guy
12-02-2012, 08:34 PM
He played very well today. Bucs are the best run defense in the league. #1 in YPG and YPC.

He got no help from the OL though, that is for sure.

No doubt. I thought there were times when Manning and Moreno should've asked the D to slow down a bit so they could at least finish the handoff. Particularly on plays like the two where they ran the ball and Manning caught them with 12 on the field, the DL were just walking right through the OL and blowing up the play.

errand
12-02-2012, 08:37 PM
Wow. I swear I saw a half dozen 8-10 yard runs. I definitely would've thought he had more than that.

For how many there were singing his praises in the gameday thread, I'm absolutely shocked.

He had 69 yards on 20 carries...he was more effective early, but lost a few yards when we went to clock killing mode.

pricejj
12-02-2012, 10:35 PM
3.45 ypc isn't good enough to get it done against teams the Broncos will meet in the playoffs.

Bacchus
12-02-2012, 10:36 PM
3.45 ypc isn't good enough to get it done against teams the Broncos will meet in the playoffs.

Teams the Broncos meet in the playoffs won't be #1 against the rush. They played that team today.

Nwp-Apap
12-02-2012, 10:47 PM
3.45 ypc isn't good enough to get it done against teams the Broncos will meet in the playoffs.

Same defense held J Charles to less than that. 13 carries for 40 yards.

Moreno is the first back to have more than 60 yard against the Bucs since week 8 against AP. Only four backs have ran for over 60 yards against them this year, counting Moreno.

pricejj
12-02-2012, 11:02 PM
Alright...then I guess we should be able to light up the Raiders on the ground. We need to get this running game rolling these next couple weeks. The Broncos have to get to the point where they know they can pick up a first down on the ground if they need it. They aren't there yet.

Nwp-Apap
12-02-2012, 11:46 PM
Alright...then I guess we should be able to light up the Raiders on the ground. We need to get this running game rolling these next couple weeks. The Broncos have to get to the point where they know they can pick up a first down on the ground if they need it. They aren't there yet.

I agree.

I also think they should have some success Thursday, Oakland is 5th worst against the run in terms of YPC and YPG.

Doggcow
12-03-2012, 12:16 AM
We are really ****ing good. People keep hating on us too.

Action
12-03-2012, 12:22 AM
We are really ****ing good. People keep hating on us too.

Read the first 15 pages of the game thread, I promise you'd think we're winless.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 12:28 AM
I don't see the Patriots going on a 10-0 streak streak and beating the Broncos in the playoffs. They aren't that good.

It's the 4th quarter of the season, and the Broncos are playing for a first-round bye, and possibly home field advantage throughout the playoffs.

That should be enough to get them up for the Raiders game.

Doggcow
12-03-2012, 12:34 AM
Read the first 15 pages of the game thread, I promise you'd think we're winless.

I posted on the first page that I thought we'd win easily (As we did).

People are ridiculous to think we'd lose at home to Tampa Bay lol.

Rock Chalk
12-03-2012, 06:56 AM
Without looking, I'd say in the 80-90 range. Unfortunately, I think those probably came almost exclusively on about 7 runs. It looked like his options were either 1 or less or 7+. I'd much rather the dependable 4-6 yards on every rush.

offically, he had 20 carries for 69 yards but 5 non-garbage time drives he had 15 carries for 65 yards (4.33 ypc)

Denver Drive #1 (runs only):
K.Moreno right tackle to TB 47 for -1 yards (1st down)
K.Moreno left guard to TB 23 for 2 yards (2nd down)
K.Moreno left tackle to TB 1 for 12 yards (2nd down)

Denver Drive #2
K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 14 for 4 yards (1st down)

Denver Drive #3
K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 28 for 9 yards (1st down)
K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 25 for -3 yards (2nd and 1...No shot on this play, was blown up from the start)
K.Moreno up the middle to DEN 25 for no gain (quick snap to get too many people on field play)
(Shotgun) K.Moreno left guard to TB 34 for 6 yards (1st down)

Denver Drive #4
K.Moreno left tackle to DEN 29 for 16 yards (2nd down)

Denver Drive #5
K.Moreno right tackle to DEN 29 for no gain (2nd and 1 negated for Holding on Beadles)

Denver Drive #6
(No Runs)

Denver Drive #7
K.Moreno left end to TB 10 for -1 yards (1st and goal from 9)

Denver Drive #8
1 play, Manning intercepted

Denver drive #9
K.Moreno right guard to DEN 34 for no gain (1st down)
K.Moreno up the middle to TB 49 for 5 yards (1st down)
K.Moreno left guard to TB 16 for 6 yards (2nd down)
K.Moreno up the middle to TB 12 for 4 yards (1st down)

Denver Drive #10
K.Moreno right tackle to TB 35 for no gain (1st down)
K.Moreno right tackle to TB 29 for 6 yards (2nd down)

Drives 11 and 12 were garbage time and TB knew we were running the ball to kill clock based on our single wide 2 TE heavy formation.

He had 15 meaningful runs for 65 yards. Of those, 8 were stuffs, 7 were good gains. Of the stuffs, one was negated for holding, 1 was blown up from the start.

He had 3 runs at or very near double digits in length. He had 4 no gains (1 of which was the quick snap to get the defense with too many men, another was negated by the holding).

He had 3 negative gains. I only remember one of them where Moreno had absolutely no shot at the start, I dont remember how the other two were. He had one 2 yard gain.

He had 7 runs where he picked up 4+ yards. One of those runs was on a 1st and 20 and was 4 yards so that is relative.

So there, you guys have the stats right in front of you, make your own conclusions.

Drek
12-03-2012, 07:19 AM
Alright...then I guess we should be able to light up the Raiders on the ground. We need to get this running game rolling these next couple weeks. The Broncos have to get to the point where they know they can pick up a first down on the ground if they need it. They aren't there yet.

That isn't going to happen with this Bronco team.

Koppen is doing a damn fine job given the circumstances, but he doesn't have the size or the power at this point in his career to be a big gap opener at C. Kuper is clearly not 100% healthy and there is no reason to think he suddenly will be again this season. Beadles is somewhat inconsistent and seems to do his best work when he gets to pull. None of these guys are a good fit for blasting a hole that a back can reliably take for a first down in obvious rush situations.

Unless Moreno finds what made him so great at Georgia and gets all of that elusiveness back but now coupled with a more down field style and greater size we're going to struggle on obvious running downs, especially up the middle.

We win with the pass now. Running the ball is to set up the pass and keep the clock moving. Manning throwing the ball is how we actually rack up yardage. If we need a reliable 3rd and short option we'd be better served keeping the ball in Manning's hands and looking to Moreno out on the flats with screen passes. That is a safe 3 yards Moreno gives us with potential to really break one.

CEH
12-03-2012, 07:44 AM
Did anything count the number of times a 2nd and 1 became 2nd and 11 or 3rd and 4. Either by penalty or more concerning the A gap on teh right side was completely getting blown up. It was not pretty

Also one run Knowshown actaully stop his run to the right. Never in my 15 years at Mile High have a ever seen a RB completely stop

Moreno did not grab the one 3rd and 1 he had to do. He had a 3rd and 4 where he fell down and Manning threw the ball to him.

Most of Moreno's 3 yard screen passes came on first or 2nd down

Willis is not coming back anytime soon but he runs with a style that manning needs to keep the chains rolling.

Beantown Bronco
12-03-2012, 07:47 AM
Willis is not coming back anytime soon but he runs with a style that manning needs to keep the chains rolling.

Didn't we completely disprove this last week in the full analysis of 3rd down running between Moreno and McGahee?

baja
12-03-2012, 08:38 AM
Read the first 15 pages of the game thread, I promise you'd think we're winless.


That is why I stopped reading or posting in the Game thread weeks ago.

The Gameday thread used to have some good observations and comments but now it's full of drama queens. Better to just watch the game and endure the commercials.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 08:44 AM
That isn't going to happen with this Bronco team.

Koppen is doing a damn fine job given the circumstances, but he doesn't have the size or the power at this point in his career to be a big gap opener at C. Kuper is clearly not 100% healthy and there is no reason to think he suddenly will be again this season. Beadles is somewhat inconsistent and seems to do his best work when he gets to pull. None of these guys are a good fit for blasting a hole that a back can reliably take for a first down in obvious rush situations.

Unless Moreno finds what made him so great at Georgia and gets all of that elusiveness back but now coupled with a more down field style and greater size we're going to struggle on obvious running downs, especially up the middle.

We win with the pass now. Running the ball is to set up the pass and keep the clock moving. Manning throwing the ball is how we actually rack up yardage. If we need a reliable 3rd and short option we'd be better served keeping the ball in Manning's hands and looking to Moreno out on the flats with screen passes. That is a safe 3 yards Moreno gives us with potential to really break one.

I agree that the OL isn't great at runblocking. They need to continue to do whatever they can to take the pressure off Manning. That includes figuring out how to consistently run the ball while McGahee is down.

Kaylore
12-03-2012, 08:50 AM
Denver is 9th in points per game on defense and 3rd in points per game on offense. When you consider the defense has scored a few touchdowns this year, that skews the stats and also makes a statement about what kind of defense we've had.

TonyR
12-03-2012, 09:12 AM
Hate to "complain" after a win and during a 7 game winning streak, but here are my biggest concerns with this team right now:
1) slow, sloppy starts (can't start this way against elite teams)
2) Matt Prater (how comfortable would you be with him in a big spot?)
3) run blocking (self explanatory)
4) New England Patriots (don't want to play them)

baja
12-03-2012, 09:16 AM
Hate to "complain" after a win and during a 7 game winning streak, but here are my biggest concerns with this team right now:
1) slow, sloppy starts (can't start this way against elite teams)
2) Matt Prater (how comfortable would you be with him in a big spot?)
3) run blocking


1. This appears to be getting much better as the season goes on, remember it used to be the whole first half.

2.Matt is in a slump, he'll come out of it soon IMO.

3. Yup.

4. I think Manning/ McCoy will come up with something on O but still no answer for NE's TE's, gotta figure that one out.

TonyR
12-03-2012, 09:18 AM
1. This appears to be getting much better as the season goes on, remember it used to be the whole first half.

Well, we were trailing at half time yesterday. And I should add:

5) Conservative play calling, particularly when "protecting a lead" (this allowed TB to get back into the game yesterday)

baja
12-03-2012, 09:19 AM
Well, we were trailing at half time yesterday. And I should add:

5) Conservative play calling, particularly when "protecting a lead" (this allowed TB to get back into the game yesterday)

Agree 100% with #5, like Manning says, you gotta go for the throat when you get a team down.

baja
12-03-2012, 09:33 AM
Well, we were trailing at half time yesterday. And I should add:

5) Conservative play calling, particularly when "protecting a lead" (this allowed TB to get back into the game yesterday)

We are not going to win every game in the first half. Tampa Bay is a good team and they played us well that first. What I really like is our ability to adjust in the second half of games.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 09:35 AM
4. I think Manning/ McCoy will come up with something on O but still no answer for NE's TE's, gotta figure that one out.

The margin for error in run blocking is extremely low with the single-back set. The Colts in 2006 were 18th in attempts, 18th in yardage and had 4.0 ypc...yet were effective. Top 12 in rushing is a pipe dream now (with Willis out).

The good thing about the last part of the season, is the Broncos can work on the run game, as much as they want too. I think, as long as they stick to what they've been doing, Knowshon and Hillman can become as effective as they need to be.

Raiders, Ravens, and Chiefs all have bottom third run Defenses.

TonyR
12-03-2012, 09:39 AM
We are not going to win every game in the first half. Tampa Bay is a good team and they played us well that first. What I really like is our ability to adjust in the second half of games.

Agree. But my concern is that if you have a slow, sloppy start against an elite team you might dig yourself a hole you can't get out of. It's one and done in the playoffs. Need to clean things up.

Stan
12-03-2012, 09:48 AM
I love how the defense has developed under JDR but to really see it at its best we need to get up on some of these teams earlier. Against NE, Houston and Atlanta that would have been huge instead of playing from behind like we were. It is frustrating to watch at times how good the offense can be and yet at other times they just don't seem to be clicking.

CEH
12-03-2012, 10:11 AM
Well, we were trailing at half time yesterday. And I should add:

5) Conservative play calling, particularly when "protecting a lead" (this allowed TB to get back into the game yesterday)

So if Prater makes his FG that's 3 points. If Moore catches that wonded duck he camped under and total blew that's 3 point.

Either one makes this a 2 possesion game at the 2 min warning

Two goats for sure IMO

mwill07
12-03-2012, 10:17 AM
A few other potent potables:

We have now faced 3 of the top 5 RB's in the league: Martin, Foster, and Charles. Despite that, we are #7 in rushing yards allowed, and more importantly, #2 in YPC.

We have faced 4 of the top 7 QB's in the league: Palmer, Brees, Ryan and Brady. Despite that, we are the #6 pass D in yards allowed, and more importantly #4 in YPA.

We have allowed 3 out of 12 opponents to run for more than 100 yards. We have not allowed a single 300 yard passing game, and only twice have opponents passed for more than 250.

we are scoring an average of 29 points/game, and allowing an average of 20. To flesh this out a bit more, we have scored less than 25 in 3 out of 12 games, and allowed more than 25 in three out of 12 games.

If you look at games since the bye week, we have not allowed any opponent to score more than 23, and that includes some garbage time TD's. conversely, we have scored less than 30 exactly once. Average margin of victory is 12 points.

Yeah, we are rollin'.

55CrushEm
12-03-2012, 10:33 AM
I don't see the Patriots going on a 10-0 streak streak and beating the Broncos in the playoffs. They aren't that good.

It's the 4th quarter of the season, and the Broncos are playing for a first-round bye, and possibly home field advantage throughout the playoffs.

That should be enough to get them up for the Raiders game.

While we still have a great shot at the #2 seed......there is no way in hell we get the #1 seed. We are 2 back of Houston, and they hold the head-to-head over us. So basically, we have to OUTWIN Houston by 3 games with 4 to go.

Nah, I don't see that happening.

CEH
12-03-2012, 10:42 AM
I like where is team is. There are issues but not holes that would keep them from beating any team if they are on their game


Prater has always had issues between 40-49 a tleast his percentages is not up to top league standards. Need to step it up

Decker looks to be the lost soul out there. Not sure if the league has found out something or Manning knows DT will catch the ball but Decker has regressed the last 4 weeks. Needs to step it up.

19 games in a row they have had a turnover. That would be an issue that could be a problem. Need to stop this

Running the ball is not all that do or die in today's NFL when you have a HOF QB. Sure it can be better but the passing game will lead this team. It is what it is.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 10:47 AM
While we still have a great shot at the #2 seed......there is no way in hell we get the #1 seed. We are 2 back of Houston, and they hold the head-to-head over us. So basically, we have to OUTWIN Houston by 3 games with 4 to go.

Nah, I don't see that happening.

If the Broncos are the #2 seed and win in the 2nd round, and Houston loses in the 2nd round...the Broncos have home-field advantage throughout the playoffs.

Beantown Bronco
12-03-2012, 10:47 AM
Matt Prater (how comfortable would you be with him in a big spot?)

Did you miss all of last season?

Over his entire career so far, Matt Prater is statistically the best 4th quarter and OT clutch kicker in NFL history. He's the least of my worries in big spots.

55CrushEm
12-03-2012, 10:52 AM
If the Broncos are the #2 seed and win in the 2nd round, and Houston loses in the 2nd round...the Broncos have home-field advantage throughout the playoffs.

Yes, I get that. My point was there's little chance that we lock up homefield BEFORE the playoffs start....i.e. we won't get the #1 seed.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 11:11 AM
Yes, I get that. My point was there's little chance that we lock up homefield BEFORE the playoffs start....i.e. we won't get the #1 seed.

Yeah, I know that. But if we handle business the remaining 4 games then we might get the #2 seed...I don't see the Patriots winning them all.

That would put the Ravens in Denver during the divisional playoff game, and the Patriots in Houston.

If we don't win out, then we'll likely play at Houston in round 2 (if we make it that far).

These next couple weeks are pretty sweet, to see how the seeding goes. Of course, neither the Browns, nor KC will be easy either.

underrated29
12-03-2012, 11:18 AM
Did anything count the number of times a 2nd and 1 became 2nd and 11 or 3rd and 4. Either by penalty or more concerning the A gap on teh right side was completely getting blown up. It was not pretty

Also one run Knowshown actaully stop his run to the right. Never in my 15 years at Mile High have a ever seen a RB completely stop

Moreno did not grab the one 3rd and 1 he had to do. He had a 3rd and 4 where he fell down and Manning threw the ball to him.

Most of Moreno's 3 yard screen passes came on first or 2nd down

Willis is not coming back anytime soon but he runs with a style that manning needs to keep the chains rolling.





Ughhhh.....Not quite.

Knowshon did not fall down. He was thrown down by whoever that tampa LB was. He was within 5 yards so it was a perfectly legal play, but the defender dropped knowshon and then went after peyton. Peyton then threw a pass at knowshon while on the ground. Not sure if he figured knowshon would catch it or not, but it was funny watching them smirk afterwards.

Still, the whole knowshon falls down all the time thing is crazy and people only see what they want to see.

TonyR
12-03-2012, 11:22 AM
Did you miss all of last season?

Over his entire career so far, Matt Prater is statistically the best 4th quarter and OT clutch kicker in NFL history. He's the least of my worries in big spots.

I hear ya, but he's now missed a FG in 4 straight games, and missed 3 of his last 5 attempts. Right at this moment I'm not all that comfortable.

CEH
12-03-2012, 12:12 PM
I hear ya, but he's now missed a FG in 4 straight games, and missed 3 of his last 5 attempts. Right at this moment I'm not all that comfortable.

For 40-49 3 for 7 last year 2 for 5 (I think but its not good) this year so yeah there is caused for concern with Prater.

Make that FG yesterday and it's 34-13 and the game is over

ZONA
12-03-2012, 12:25 PM
Moreno had a Jeckle and Hyde day. Good on one play his old slipping on the grass, lose shoe self on the next.

Agree to some extent. Many of the off plays Moreno had was because there were defensive players in the backfield. That's what they do, they sell out against the run and suffer against the pass. I know coaches say "we want to run the ball" and you do but you take what the defense is going to give you.

ZONA
12-03-2012, 12:28 PM
Ughhhh.....Not quite.

Knowshon did not fall down. He was thrown down by whoever that tampa LB was. He was within 5 yards so it was a perfectly legal play, but the defender dropped knowshon and then went after peyton. Peyton then threw a pass at knowshon while on the ground. Not sure if he figured knowshon would catch it or not, but it was funny watching them smirk afterwards.

Still, the whole knowshon falls down all the time thing is crazy and people only see what they want to see.

Yeah, actually the defender pushed Moreno in the back. How is that not a penalty?

baja
12-03-2012, 12:32 PM
Ughhhh.....Not quite.

Knowshon did not fall down. He was thrown down by whoever that tampa LB was. He was within 5 yards so it was a perfectly legal play, but the defender dropped knowshon and then went after peyton. Peyton then threw a pass at knowshon while on the ground. Not sure if he figured knowshon would catch it or not, but it was funny watching them smirk afterwards.

Still, the whole knowshon falls down all the time thing is crazy and people only see what they want to see.

That play while not the prettiest was my favorite play of the game because it showed the incredible quick thinking cerebral ability that Peyton Manning brings to the game.

baja
12-03-2012, 01:10 PM
Agree to some extent. Many of the off plays Moreno had was because there were defensive players in the backfield. That's what they do, they sell out against the run and suffer against the pass. I know coaches say "we want to run the ball" and you do but you take what the defense is going to give you.

Yes I did see that as well but there was some plays where he just slipped on his cuts and he did throw a shoe again. I just wonder if he has the best footwear for him, such an easy thing to fix if true.

snowspot66
12-03-2012, 02:27 PM
3.45 ypc isn't good enough to get it done against teams the Broncos will meet in the playoffs.

No. But it is good enough when you discount the plays at the end of the game just to kill clock. He was over 4.0 YPC up to that point.

underrated29
12-03-2012, 02:49 PM
Yeah, actually the defender pushed Moreno in the back. How is that not a penalty?

my guess is because he was within 5 yards of the LOS, but im going off of memory now so I am not sure? Maybe the refs just missed it.


Baja- Im with you, actually my two favorite manning plays this year have been the San Diego hurdle and the knowshon ass pass from last game. Just incredibly good plays that really should not have worked but did. I was actually just looking on youtube for some highlights of the broncos for those plays.

Sadly, I found none.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 03:10 PM
No. But it is good enough when you discount the plays at the end of the game just to kill clock. He was over 4.0 YPC up to that point.

Yeah, I was following his YPC all along on ESPN GameCast...I think he was averaging 4.3 ypc until the last drive.

Of course, the Offenses inability to do jack diddly with the rock in the last 3 minutes of the game, is why the Bucs were able to keep it close.

He did have a 4 yard run on first down of the last Offensive possesion (which is good). I think Moreno and Hillman can do it, with a continued emphasis on Offensive balance, and complete games.

If the Broncos Offense was able to pick up a first down with 3:23 left...we're looking at a blow-out, which is what it should have been.

Stan
12-03-2012, 03:15 PM
Yeah, actually the defender pushed Moreno in the back. How is that not a penalty?

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think there is such thing as a block to the back when you are on defense is there? Also it was within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage.

shalowlow
12-03-2012, 03:17 PM
1) slow, sloppy starts (can't start this way against elite teams)


The interesting thing about this is that it also goes to show that the coaching staff seems to be able to make adjustments on the fly on both offense and defense.

A real weakness I see with the defense was obvious in the first few drives of this game and the Carolina game in particular, which is teams getting huge gains on misdirection plays, screens and wide off tackle runs or sweeps with cutback lanes. This team is taught to aggressively go after the ball and it does, sometimes to its detriment. Unfortunately for TB and CAR, they couldn't keep up the pace and after a couple of scripted drives, they couldn't do much on offense after that.

My concern is New England and Houston will be able to consistently keep the defense off balance with these types of plays and and take advantage throughout the game. We've seen them do it to this defense already.

CEH
12-03-2012, 03:21 PM
Yeah, I was following his YPC all along on ESPN GameCast...I think he was averaging 4.3 ypc until the last drive.

Of course, the Offenses inability to do jack diddly with the rock in the last 3 minutes of the game, is why the Bucs were able to keep it close.

He did have a 4 yard run on first down of the last Offensive possesion (which is good). I think Moreno and Hillman can do it, with a continued emphasis on Offensive balance, and complete games.

If the Broncos Offense was able to pick up a first down with 3:23 left...we're looking at a blow-out, which is what it should have been.

31-16 with 2:49 left is close? We are not the Detroit Lions. We have a defense and an offense

Prater needs to make his kick and/or Moore needs to catch his INTs that is the reason why it was a one score game but really the game was never in doubt

Right there is 6 points and either 34-16 or 31-13 (not 31-16) take your pick

Old Dude
12-03-2012, 03:21 PM
I got no complaints, really.

My biggest concern is still that people stay healthy. That's usually what it comes down to for most teams in the playoffs.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 03:26 PM
31-16 with 2:49 left is close? We are not the Detroit Lions. We have a defense and an offense

Prater needs to make his kick and/or Moore needs to catch his INTs that is the reason why it was a one score game but really the game was never in doubt

Right there is 6 points and either 34-16 or 31-13 (not 31-16) take your pick

Also left a bunch of points on the field with Manning's INT (in FG range), and penalties forcing another drive out of FG range.

Looking for improvement where it can be had. Picking up 1st downs late in the game, with the lead, while running out the clock, is pretty vital. The Bronco SB teams had that ability, this team doesn't...yet.

LongDongJohnson
12-03-2012, 03:32 PM
3.45 ypc isn't good enough to get it done against teams the Broncos will meet in the playoffs.

Our ypc went down after we ran up the gut like 5 times in a row in order to burn clock. Plus mannings -1 yard kneels hurt the stats.

During the game when it was competitive, we ran just fine.

baja
12-03-2012, 03:34 PM
Also left a bunch of points on the field with Manning's INT (in FG range), and penalties forcing another drive out of FG range.

Looking for improvement where it can be had. Picking up 1st downs late in the game, with the lead, while running out the clock, is pretty vital. The Bronco SB teams had that ability, this team doesn't...yet.

We seem to have fixed the fumbles now this should be the list topper of things to work on.

CEH
12-03-2012, 03:37 PM
Also left a bunch of points on the field with Manning's INT (in FG range), and penalties forcing another drive out of FG range.

Looking for improvement where it can be had. Picking up 1st downs late in the game, with the lead, while running out the clock, is pretty vital. The Bronco SB teams had that ability, this team doesn't...yet.

Who cares what the 98 Broncos did . It's irrelvalant to today,
Manning was going for the jugular and made a bad pass. Elway did the same thing in the SB against the Packers.. This is the best team since the '98 team and only 1 of 4 teams in the NFL with a 100+ point differentail and teh only one with a negative turnover

I already pointed out 19 straight games with a turnover is a area of improvement but really take your pick SF,Balt, Hou, Pitts, Atl all these teams have had a stinker of a game (a loss or a bad rule that should have been a loss) in the last 2-3 weeks. You can't say that about Denver yet these are the team that everyone says are the Super Bowl contenders. NE only beat a 5 win MIA team by one score with a rookie QB

Ball misses a block and that guy tackles Holliday from behind . Bowers defelcted a pass to Tamme with 4:46 to go on 3rd and 4 at the TB 29. Tamme could have walked into the end zone. Stuff happens but Denver could have hung 45 on TB even with it's run game where it was yesterday




I'm just enjoying this 7 game ride

pricejj
12-03-2012, 03:54 PM
Who cares what the 98 Broncos did . It's irrelvalant to today,
Manning was going for the jugular and made a bad pass. Elway did the same thing in the SB against the Packers.. This is the best team since the '98 team and only 1 of 4 teams in the NFL with a 100+ point differentail and teh only one with a negative turnover

Take the pressure off Manning in every way possible, try to eliminate all weaknesses and build them into strengths. It's called working towards perfection.

Or you could just let all the pressure to win games ride on the 36 year-old Manning's arm tossing 38 pass attempts per game, and be happy with a bottom third rushing attack. I'm sure Manning would love to play 4 more years that way.

CEH
12-03-2012, 03:58 PM
Take the pressure off Manning in every way possible, try to eliminate all weaknesses and build them into strengths. It's called working towards perfection.

Or you could just let all the pressure to win games ride on the 36 year-old Manning's arm tossing 38 pass attempts per game, and be happy with a bottom third rushing attack. I'm sure Manning would love to play 4 more years that way.

Good luck with that search for perfection

If I remember correctly a couple years ago NE beat NYJ 45-3 (a perfect game for NE) and then lost to the same team 3 weeks later in the playoffs. Perfection is hard to achieve

It's a passing league now. Ray Rice has like no touches in the 4th qtr of their game with Pitts.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 04:01 PM
Ball misses a block and that guy tackles Holliday from behind . Bowers defelcted a pass to Tamme with 4:46 to go on 3rd and 4 at the TB 29. Tamme could have walked into the end zone. Stuff happens but Denver could have hung 45 on TB even with it's run game where it was yesterday

I gives two craps about TB. They are yesterday's news. The Broncos are in the playoffs.

The Broncos are hankering for a Superbowl, with a chip on their shoulder. It's mother effing GO TIME...and they have 4 weeks to prepare for the tournament.

This team is close...very close, and it might be our best chance in the next 15 years.

baja
12-03-2012, 04:05 PM
I gives two craps about TB. They are yesterday's news. The Broncos are in the playoffs.

The Broncos are hankering for a Superbowl, with a chip on their shoulder. It's mother effing GO TIME...and they have 4 weeks to prepare for the tournament.

This team is close...very close, and it might be our best chance in the next 15 years.

Starting to think of how 1996 season ended. Please not that....

DBroncos4life
12-03-2012, 04:07 PM
Also left a bunch of points on the field with Manning's INT (in FG range), and penalties forcing another drive out of FG range.

Looking for improvement where it can be had. Picking up 1st downs late in the game, with the lead, while running out the clock, is pretty vital. The Bronco SB teams had that ability, this team doesn't...yet.

It was first and ten from the Bucs 40 when Manning threw pick. That is a hell of a kick for a guy struggling of late.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 04:09 PM
Good luck with that search for perfection

If I remember correctly a couple years ago NE beat NYJ 45-3 (a perfect game for NE) and then lost to the same team 3 weeks later in the playoffs. Perfection is hard to achieve

It's a passing league now. Ray Rice has like no touches in the 4th qtr of their game with Pitts.

NE hasn't won a SuperBowl since 2005, because they always have glaring weaknesses, and have failed to execute on the biggest stage.

And if you think "it's a passing league now", I would encourage you to take a gander at the 250-yard shellacking that NE trampled us for earlier this year. You give Brady the ball down one score with 3 minutes left, and he'll make you regret it.

Running the ball, and stopping the run are important. If you can only do one, or neither, you will lose.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 04:15 PM
It was first and ten from the Bucs 40 when Manning threw pick. That is a hell of a kick for a guy struggling of late.

Lavonte David picked it off at the 25 yard line.

Bacchus
12-03-2012, 06:04 PM
NE hasn't won a SuperBowl since 2005, because they always have glaring weaknesses, and have failed to execute on the biggest stage.

And if you think "it's a passing league now", I would encourage you to take a gander at the 250-yard shellacking that NE trampled us for earlier this year. You give Brady the ball down one score with 3 minutes left, and he'll make you regret it.

Running the ball, and stopping the run are important. If you can only do one, or neither, you will lose.

2004 season, Denver beat them in the 2005 season playoffs. Confusing with games in January and all.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 06:14 PM
2004 season, Denver beat them in the 2005 season playoffs. Confusing with games in January and all.

Feb. 2005 - present

That's about 8 years last time I checked. But yeah, it's been a long time. Oh how I would love for the Broncos to beat Cheatriots in the playoffs.

In fact, if the Broncos do that, it would be nearly as good as a Superbowl victory to me.

CEH
12-03-2012, 06:24 PM
NE hasn't won a SuperBowl since 2005, because they always have glaring weaknesses, and have failed to execute on the biggest stage.

And if you think "it's a passing league now", I would encourage you to take a gander at the 250-yard shellacking that NE trampled us for earlier this year. You give Brady the ball down one score with 3 minutes left, and he'll make you regret it.

Running the ball, and stopping the run are important. If you can only do one, or neither, you will lose.

I like how you work in absolutes. Denver must get to 4.0 ypc. 3.8 is not good enough and will result in failure later on. Denver must win the Super Bowl. Denver must do is otherwise they lose. World doesn't resolve around absolutes. Just ask SF or Baltimore this weekend


So Wes Welker failing to catch a routine pass would have been the due to New Englands running game? What about Asante Samuel dropping a sure INT right before the Tyree miracle catch

Want to talk about perfection. How about Gary Anderson being perfect on FGs in the reg season only to miss a game clincher in the NFCC game in '98

More than likely it's going to come down to a few plays like I mentioned with the Prater miss FG or the missed INT by Moore.

Either play salts the game away. Had nothing to do with our running game or lack thereof.

lonestar
12-03-2012, 07:19 PM
Well not quite that good (59) but he lost some yards at the end of the game when we were running clock.

20 runs for 69 yards with a long of 16

baja
12-03-2012, 07:26 PM
20 runs for 69 yards with a long of 16


Works for me. How many would he had gotten for us if he had been cut like so many of you wanted.

He has filled in nicely for McGahee and will get better, much better. I have been saying this all along. Aren't I grand ;D

pricejj
12-03-2012, 08:00 PM
I like how you work in absolutes. Denver must get to 4.0 ypc. 3.8 is not good enough and will result in failure later on. Denver must win the Super Bowl. Denver must do is otherwise they lose. World doesn't resolve around absolutes. Just ask SF or Baltimore this weekend


So Wes Welker failing to catch a routine pass would have been the due to New Englands running game? What about Asante Samuel dropping a sure INT right before the Tyree miracle catch

Want to talk about perfection. How about Gary Anderson being perfect on FGs in the reg season only to miss a game clincher in the NFCC game in '98

More than likely it's going to come down to a few plays like I mentioned with the Prater miss FG or the missed INT by Moore.

Either play salts the game away. Had nothing to do with our running game or lack thereof.

How about this boss...Listen to John Lynch's analysis of the Broncos during the 5:00pm hour of "The Drive" on 104.3 the FAN, then get back to me. He echoed my sentiments exactly. Peyton Manning also said the same thing after the Chargers game...and Elway also talked about it during training camp.

I'll stick with my analysis that agrees with John Lynch, Peyton Manning, John Elway, Fox, McCoy, every single Denver Bronco on the roster, and every single Bronco in the history of Broncodom.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 08:08 PM
I like how you work in absolutes. Denver must get to 4.0 ypc. 3.8 is not good enough and will result in failure later on. Denver must win the Super Bowl. Denver must do is otherwise they lose. World doesn't resolve around absolutes. Just ask SF or Baltimore this weekend.

I stated that I was setting a goal of 4.0 ypc for the Broncos, that they needed to be able to run the ball when other teams knew they were going to run it, and be able to stop the run when they knew other teams were going to run.

I'm sure the Broncos, and every Bronco fan in the entire world, would view this season as a disappointment if we lose in the divisional round to NE again. You can put Peyton Manning at the top of that list.

The rest of the crap you are talking about, you made up.

baja
12-03-2012, 08:28 PM
I stated that I was setting a goal of 4.0 ypc for the Broncos, that they needed to be able to run the ball when other teams knew they were going to run it, and be able to stop the run when they knew other teams were going to run.

I'm sure the Broncos, and every Bronco fan in the entire world, would view this season as a disappointment if we lose in the divisional round to NE again. You can put Peyton Manning at the top of that list.

The rest of the crap you are talking about, you made up.

What I don't get is why oh why can't some fans enjoy the games as the season unfolds. The joy is in the NOW. Why deter from that joy trying to set some future disappointment bar?

It's been 13 years since we had a team so promising if it ends like 1996 it will suck royally but we are not there yet. Joy is an emotion that only works in the present.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 08:51 PM
What I don't get is why oh why can't some fans enjoy the games as the season unfolds. The joy is in the NOW. Why deter from that joy trying to set some future disappointment bar?

It's been 13 years since we had a team so promising if it ends like 1996 it will suck royally but we are not there yet. Joy is an emotion that only works in the present.

I'm really freaking happy. I love watching the games, and rewatching them after they are over. This is one of the best Bronco seasons ever. If you haven't noticed, I'm constantly looking for angles and storylines that have me hooked even more. I've loved the Broncos ever since I can remember. Even on our last legs, I always believe we still have a chance... I believe we can win the Superbowl, and even if we don't I know every last man on the roster gives it their all, just like I do when I get a chance to go to a game. Once the season is over, I will constantly be retooling the roster, and looking for players that can help us win the Superbowl next year.

I hate the Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers...and hold a special hatred for the Patriots for what McD did to us. I'm an orange and blue blooded Broncos fan to the bone, and loving every minute of it. I am a wannabe GM, coach, and player at every position. I have never watched any other NFL team all the way through the game unless the Broncos were playing. My 6 year old son was with me for one week this summer, and we ended our vacation one day early, just so we could drive back and attend the Invesco practice, where DT gave him a high-five and signed his hat. My most cherished belonging as a kid was a Broncos roster poster, and the Broncos headquarters address on Logan Street in Denver. I had it written on a piece of paper and locked away in my piggy bank along with all my wheat pennies and Kennedy half-dollars.
My twin brother offered to purchase the address from me for $5 once, and I wouldn't do it. In my mind, it was the most valuable thing in the world.

I am a Broncos Maniac.

DBroncos4life
12-03-2012, 08:54 PM
I'm really freaking happy. I love watching the games, and rewatching them after they are over. This is one of the best Bronco seasons ever. If you haven't noticed, I'm constantly looking for angles and storylines that have me hooked even more. I've loved the Broncos ever since I can remember. Even on our last legs, I always believe we still have a chance... I believe we can win the Superbowl, and even if we don't I know every last man on the roster gives it their all, just like I do when I get a chance to go to a game. Once the season is over, I will constantly be retooling the roster, and looking for players that can help us win the Superbowl next year.

I hate the Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers...and hold a special hatred for the Patriots for what McD did to us. I'm an orange and blue blooded Broncos fan to the bone, and loving every minute of it. I am a wannabe GM, coach, and player at every position. I have never watched any other NFL team all the way through the game unless the Broncos were playing. My 6 year old son was with me for one week this summer, and we ended our vacation one day early, just so we could drive back and attend the Invesco practice, where DT gave him a high-five and signed his hat. My most cherished belonging as a kid was a Broncos roster poster, and the Broncos headquarters address on Logan Street in Denver. I had it written on a piece of paper and locked away in my piggy bank along with all my wheat pennies and Kennedy half-dollars.

I am a Broncos Maniac.
Do you know how bat **** crazy you sound when you post **** like this???

pricejj
12-03-2012, 09:01 PM
Do you know how bat **** crazy you sound when you post **** like this???

You can't tell me you weren't watching the SEC title game, looking for players that you might want the Broncos to draft.

I'll make a draft order list about 200 players long in the months leading up to the draft...though I won't get involved in Free Agency too much...too many variables.

I bet there are a lot of other posters (and lurkers) who do the exact same thing.

baja
12-03-2012, 09:06 PM
I'm really freaking happy. I love watching the games, and rewatching them after they are over. This is one of the best Bronco seasons ever. If you haven't noticed, I'm constantly looking for angles and storylines that have me hooked even more. I've loved the Broncos ever since I can remember. Even on our last legs, I always believe we still have a chance... I believe we can win the Superbowl, and even if we don't I know every last man on the roster gives it their all, just like I do when I get a chance to go to a game. Once the season is over, I will constantly be retooling the roster, and looking for players that can help us win the Superbowl next year.

I hate the Raiders, Chiefs, Chargers...and hold a special hatred for the Patriots for what McD did to us. I'm an orange and blue blooded Broncos fan to the bone, and loving every minute of it. I am a wannabe GM, coach, and player at every position. I have never watched any other NFL team all the way through the game unless the Broncos were playing. My 6 year old son was with me for one week this summer, and we ended our vacation one day early, just so we could drive back and attend the Invesco practice, where DT gave him a high-five and signed his hat. My most cherished belonging as a kid was a Broncos roster poster, and the Broncos headquarters address on Logan Street in Denver. I had it written on a piece of paper and locked away in my piggy bank along with all my wheat pennies and Kennedy half-dollars.
My twin brother offered to purchase the address from me for $5 once, and I wouldn't do it. In my mind, it was the most valuable thing in the world.

I am a Broncos Maniac.

Nice Post jj.

I didn't intend to single you out. It just seems so many are missing the moment of a season that doesn't come along all that often.

baja
12-03-2012, 09:08 PM
Do you know how bat **** crazy you sound when you post **** like this???

I understand what he means, hell you do it too. Nothing wrong with that. ;D

pricejj
12-03-2012, 09:08 PM
Nice Post jj.

I didn't intend to single you out. It just seems so many are missing the moment of a season that doesn't come along all that often.

I think we're all just enjoying it in our own little way, Baja. ;)

DBroncos4life
12-03-2012, 09:09 PM
You can't tell me you weren't watching the SEC title game, looking for players that you might want the Broncos to draft.

I'll make a draft order list about 200 players long in the months leading up to the draft...though I won't get involved in Free Agency too much...too many variables.

I bet there are a lot of other posters (and lurkers) who do the exact same thing.

I watched about 10 minutes of that game max.

Agamemnon
12-03-2012, 09:09 PM
Do you know how bat **** crazy you sound when you post **** like this???

Yeah because there aren't tons of posters who do the same exact thing all offseason. Just look at all the threads that start popping up about this exact thing as the draft approaches.

DBroncos4life
12-03-2012, 09:17 PM
I understand what he means, hell you do it too. Nothing wrong with that. ;D

It's not just this post though.

I guarantee you the Broncos aren't bragging about how they are "4th in Offense", and "4th in Defense" right now.

...but go ahead and party it up, because they barely beat the worst team in the NFL.

I'll take a more reserved approach, acknowledge the weaknesses, and start focusing on Tampa Bay.

It is starting to look more and more like he is creating this false world where he is making day to day moves for the Denver Broncos.

Bacchus
12-03-2012, 09:20 PM
You can't tell me you weren't watching the SEC title game, looking for players that you might want the Broncos to draft.

I'll make a draft order list about 200 players long in the months leading up to the draft...though I won't get involved in Free Agency too much...too many variables.

I bet there are a lot of other posters (and lurkers) who do the exact same thing.

wow, that is ambition. I remember being that young once.

pricejj
12-03-2012, 09:21 PM
I watched about 10 minutes of that game max.

Yeah, me too. Just enough to determine that Ogletree is good, but probably wouldn't be worth us spending our 1st rounder on him next year. I was checking out John Jenkins too...the draft is deep in NT's. Wasn't focusing on Lacy very much, but will take a long look at him as the draft approaches. Whether or not the Broncos pick an RB (like Lacy) in the 1st round, depends a lot on how Knowshon and Hillman perform the rest of the season. Remember, Knowshon is slated for a $3.5M cap hit next year.

sinuous sausage
12-03-2012, 09:22 PM
I like how you work in absolutes. Denver must get to 4.0 ypc. 3.8 is not good enough and will result in failure later on. Denver must win the Super Bowl. Denver must do is otherwise they lose. World doesn't resolve around absolutes. Just ask SF or Baltimore this weekend


So Wes Welker failing to catch a routine pass would have been the due to New Englands running game? What about Asante Samuel dropping a sure INT right before the Tyree miracle catch

Want to talk about perfection. How about Gary Anderson being perfect on FGs in the reg season only to miss a game clincher in the NFCC game in '98

More than likely it's going to come down to a few plays like I mentioned with the Prater miss FG or the missed INT by Moore.

Either play salts the game away. Had nothing to do with our running game or lack thereof.

I'd argue absolutes are the only thing the universe revolves around. The rest of the post is fine.

baja
12-03-2012, 09:23 PM
It's not just this post though.



It is starting to look more and more like he is creating this false world where he is making day to day moves for the Denver Broncos.

Well we all have our fantasies, nothing wrong with that. Hell we all spend too much time here by most folk's measure.

Life is a gift and what we do with our allotted time is completely up to each individual. Great set up really.




I'm channeling Dr. Phil. ;D

pricejj
12-03-2012, 09:34 PM
It is starting to look more and more like he is creating this false world where he is making day to day moves for the Denver Broncos.

Eh, it's not quite that bad. For all the time I invest, it's clearly not even close to the amount of time you invest. You have 20,000 more posts than I do. We're all big Bronco fans, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

Drek, Mediator, and MUG (I'm leaving a lot of people out), are all WAY more knowledeable than me about all things football. They should all be getting paid for it, like all these bloggers (IAOFM, Lammey, Spano, writers at the DP, etc.)

You were pimping Tayvon Austin, so I had to check him out too. I'm sure you follow football way closer than I do, and know a lot more. I'm just a numbers geek.

sinuous sausage
12-03-2012, 09:37 PM
I just follow football so I can hang out with you gays

Br0nc0Buster
12-03-2012, 09:37 PM
Not gonna make a list of 200 people, but so far I got a short list of guys I hope Denver takes a look at come April

CJ Mosley being one of them

pricejj
12-03-2012, 09:46 PM
Actually, the list is about 110-115...just enough to get through round 3, and a couple extra guys who I like later in the draft. Don't really care much what happens beyond round 2.

Agamemnon
12-03-2012, 09:50 PM
Not gonna make a list of 200 people, but so far I got a short list of guys I hope Denver takes a look at come April

CJ Mosley being one of them

We need a MLB far more than an OLB. Besides, Mosley is going to be long gone by the time we pick.

Bacchus
12-03-2012, 09:52 PM
Actually, the list is about 110-115...just enough to get through round 3, and a couple extra guys who I like later in the draft. Don't really care much what happens beyond round 2.

I couldn't name 10 college football players. But after Denver selects their picks I'll be an expert on all of them!!!:giggle:

pricejj
12-03-2012, 09:57 PM
I couldn't name 10 college football players.

I'm right with you. I work too much to watch football on the weekend. I will start looking at numbers, and watching game tape after the year is over, once it's clear what our needs are going into the draft. Gotta have something to talk about in the offseason right?!

The cool thing about this sight, is it's like 300 posters all pooling their knowledge together and coming up with ideas, and cracking jokes. It has been documented time after time, other Broncos sites taking ideas from posters on this board, and I think a lot of the radio shows do it too. Thanks again TJ! :sunshine:

lonestar
12-03-2012, 10:03 PM
Yeah, me too. Just enough to determine that Ogletree is good, but probably wouldn't be worth us spending our 1st rounder on him next year. I was checking out John Jenkins too...the draft is deep in NT's. Wasn't focusing on Lacy very much, but will take a long look at him as the draft approaches. Whether or not the Broncos pick an RB (like Lacy) in the 1st round, depends a lot on how Knowshon and Hillman perform the rest of the season. Remember, Knowshon is slated for a $3.5M cap hit next year.

:thumbs:

I suspect that mareno will be asked to reduce his salary or be released unless he really nails it the rest of the season..

as it stands he is not worth that kind of money..

lonestar
12-03-2012, 10:06 PM
I couldn't name 10 college football players. But after Denver selects their picks I'll be an expert on all of them!!!:giggle:

Since my daughter started playing VB and Basketball I have had little if any time to watch college ball. I'll watch some of the bowl games and the senior bowl.. then comes the combine I suspect I'll have better handle on potential draftees after that..

I also know that John will take the BAP for our broncos to fill their needs..

Unlike the past couple of decades..

CEH
12-05-2012, 11:46 AM
Eric Decker where are you

halfway point ED on pace for 90 catches, 1K yards and 14 TDs

Last 4 games 10 receptions 119 yards and 1 TDs. He's bascailly cut his production in half the last four games.

Seems to me you should be progressing as you play more and more with PMF not regressing

Probably what heppens when you are taken down by the turf monster (on natural turf no less)