PDA

View Full Version : Ronnie Hillman vs Chiefs (All 7 plays)


Action
11-27-2012, 02:59 PM
I'll be using this thread to show everyone what happened on all the plays he was involved in so people can have a better idea of his performance.

In some of the pictures I took, I didn't have the situation of the game because I was trying to get a better look at the formation... my fault.

When looking at the plays, you must consider the element of time. These pictures are all within SPLIT SECONDS of each other. If you see something AFTER he was tackled, it most likely wasn't there when he actually had time to get there.

He was in 7 total plays.

Action
11-27-2012, 03:04 PM
Formation: 3 WRs, 1 TE, 1 RB

Ronnie Hillman lines up behind manning in a the tradition formation Broncos run almost all their plays on 1st and 2nd down on. Chiefs show a front with 4 defenders at the LOS and 2 down lineman.

http://imageshack.us/a/img819/662/play1a.jpg

Chiefs don't bring and pressure and Hillman runs up the middle and out the backfield into the flat. Manning passes elsewhere.

http://imageshack.us/a/img231/3784/play1b.jpg

Action
11-27-2012, 03:08 PM
Formation: Shotgun, 3 WRs, 1 TE, 1 RB
Defense: 4 men at the LOS, 2 down linemen, 2 LB

Hillman and Holliday are lined up in the backfield on each side of Manning. They showed this look this week.

http://imageshack.us/a/img547/2294/play2a.jpg

Chiefs don't bring any extra pressure so Hillman runs out the back field up the middle and into a deeper flat. Manning eventually gets sacked on this play with 4 Chief rushers.

http://imageshack.us/a/img39/7306/play2b.jpg

Action
11-27-2012, 03:13 PM
Formation: 4 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB
Defense: 4 men at the LOS, 2 down linemen, 2 LB

Hillman and Holliday are lined up just like the play above (this play occurred right after the last play on a no huddle). They are on opposite sides for this play

http://imageshack.us/a/img198/2199/play3a.jpg

Chiefs don't bring any extra pressure. Ronnie Hillman runs out the backfield and towards the middle of the field. Manning passes to Tamme for a big gain.

http://imageshack.us/a/img545/7189/play3b.jpg

Action
11-27-2012, 03:18 PM
Formation: Shotgun, 3 WR, 1 RB, 1 TE
Defense: 4 men at the LOS, 2 down linemen, 2 LB

Ronnie Hillman lines up to the left of Manning in shotgun.

http://imageshack.us/a/img9/6091/play4a.jpg

It's an inside handoff... this is what Hillman sees when he gets the ball.

http://imageshack.us/a/img24/6307/play4b.jpg

Hillman cuts it left and has 2 defenders (Hali and Derrick Johnson) disengaging blocks that he must out run. He has an open lane here.

http://imageshack.us/a/img839/33/play4c.jpg

Hillman outruns the defenders and finishes the run strong running through the defender and finishing with a 10 yard gain.

http://imageshack.us/a/img545/9229/play4d.jpg

Action
11-27-2012, 03:31 PM
Formation: 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB
Defense: 4 men at the LOS, 2 down linemen, 2 LB

Hillman lines up behind manning in a tradition formation, however Clady is lined up with his hands off the ground and outside leg out.

http://imageshack.us/a/img850/7744/play5a.jpg

It's a running play to the right which is supposed to be between the tackle. Koppen gets depth but Beadles get's man handled. This is what Hillman sees when he gets the ball.

http://imageshack.us/a/img197/4223/play5b.jpg

Hillman isn't even able to get to the LOS as the lineman are pushed back. Beadles is on the ground. Hillman has no holes and a free defender running at him while stuck behind the LOS. This is what he sees at the LOS.

http://imageshack.us/a/img96/1646/play5c.jpg

Hillman gets stuffed. Behind the LOS.

http://imageshack.us/a/img593/9320/play5d.jpg

There is obviously room outside the tackle but that wasn't the play. Coaching here might tell him to bounce it out or they're telling him to keep disciplined (most likely, I've never really seen our RBs bounce out).

He could have keep running a bit more flat behind Franklin and Tamme but he would have still gotten no where.

Action
11-27-2012, 03:37 PM
Formation: Shotgun, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB
Defense: 2 down linemen, 2 LBs, 4 at LOS. Linebackers playing close with no depth. ALERT blitz.

Hillman is lined up in the backfield to the right of Manning and is on the lookout for a blitz.

http://imageshack.us/a/img203/3624/play6a.jpg

There is a blitz and Chiefs bring 5. Ronnie reads it correctly. Ronnie Hillman picks up the free runner perfectly with a LB running at full speed towards him. Drives into the LB's chest and doesn't give up ground.

http://imageshack.us/a/img18/7342/play6b.jpg

Ronnie holds up the blitzing defender and Manning gets a clean release.

http://imageshack.us/a/img267/8257/play6c.jpg

KevinJames
11-27-2012, 03:47 PM
Nice thread Ronnie is very raw in everything but I can tell he is improving with each game, I think he will get a bigger role down the stretch hopefully in the passing game to get him in space. I honestly wish he'd try to bounce it outside more when the inside is stuffed up, theres a few times I watched him and I thought he could of bounced it outside for a decent play, but who knows maybe the coaches are trying to get him to take what he can get up the middle, and not risk losing yards trying to bounce it outside.

I also noticed the package with Hillman and Holliday in the same backfield pretty cool hope to see it more I am all for getting guys with speed the ball and letting them do their thing.

Action
11-27-2012, 03:48 PM
Formation: 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB
Defense: 2 down linemen, 2 LB, 4 at the LOS and only 1 LB behind the LOS

Ronnie lines up behind Manning on what looks like should be a favorable matchup for the OLine and for a running play.

http://imageshack.us/a/img811/1388/play7a.jpg

It's a running play and Hillman gets the handoff. This is what he sees when he gets the ball. As you can see the line is pretty scrambled.

http://imageshack.us/a/img443/9579/play7b.jpg

The line doesn't give up much and this is Hillman approaching the LOS. There is an unblocked DB coming in and Ronnie decides to cut back in.

http://imageshack.us/a/img801/212/play7e.jpg

Ronnie Hillman cuts in.

http://imageshack.us/a/img853/8172/play7c.jpg

Hillman is able to find a small crease inside the DB and use his momentum to get a 1 yard run. He is tackled by the DB.

http://imageshack.us/a/img5/8509/play7d.jpg

Again, there wasn't much here on the play. You can say he could have tried to juke the DB and bounce out but that probably wouldn't be successful as the DB was running in with good technique. The play was obviously designed to go inside as most our running plays are.

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-27-2012, 03:55 PM
Post 6 of that was run right inside tackle you don't make a full cut back into where the pressure is coming. Run that outside and it's a gain.

Inkana7
11-27-2012, 03:56 PM
SO DISAPPOINTING

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-27-2012, 03:58 PM
Action I appreciate the work you put in here

Action
11-27-2012, 03:58 PM
So hopefully this gives a better picture of how Ronnie played.

There are so many reports of his pass blocking struggles at this point, but none of it is on game film. I can't remember a time where he screwed up anything in pass blocking recently. He had another great block during the Cinci game I believe.

So if his pass blocking is a huge reason he's not playing, it must be because he's not showing it in practice.

The Broncos oline haven't been blocking too great, and I've noticed that when Ronnie Hillman gets his carries, it's usually not much to work with...not just this game.

I say Broncos need some more outside runs too but that's on McCoy and the staff.

Bunch of naysayers about Hillman but he's really not given much to work with and barely gets any carries to get into rhythm. I don't know if McCoy believes in rhythm as he did the same to Tebow last year (not calling plays to get him into rhythm).

I also read on here that Hillman runs from passing formations so his YPC should be higher... this is laughable.

The Broncos as a team have been running out of "passing formations" most the time. When is the last time you remember them running out of a heavy set at the LOS? Outside of goal line of course.

It also doesn't matter what formations the Broncos are running out of without taking into account what the defense is playing. So this logic of running out of passing formations = higher YPC is ridiculous.

Ronnie Hillman 3 carries... how can you even judge the guy? But so many here seem to be so disappointed...

The Omane http://imageshack.us/a/img860/355/moviesstevecarrellamuse.png

KipCorrington25
11-27-2012, 04:01 PM
I haven't yet seen the big play potential we were sold on when he was brought in... usually guys like this will show flashes even if they are raw but I haven't seen that. Just seems undersized and slow for being 185. Haven't been impressed so far.

Action
11-27-2012, 04:02 PM
Post 6 of that was run right inside tackle you don't make a full cut back into where the pressure is coming. Run that outside and it's a gain.

I'm not sure this is coached... as that is obviously not the design of the play. Again, taken the element of time, and the view, the oline was pushing towards the sidelines. Look at where Franklin is when Hillman gets the ball, and then a few steps later on the next picture.

Yes, possibly in the future he'll be able to read this quicker, but the point he is that it wasn't the design of the play and I've honestly rarely seen any of our RBs bounce out. I almost want to believe they're coached to stay disciplined and behind their blockers.

Nwp-Apap
11-27-2012, 04:05 PM
Nice, I still think Hillman has a decent future with us.

That being said, I believe Moreno does as well, and seeing how much our OL was manhandled only makes Moreno's game Sunday that much more impressive..

Action
11-27-2012, 04:15 PM
I haven't yet seen the big play potential we were sold on when he was brought in... usually guys like this will show flashes even if they are raw but I haven't seen that. Just seems undersized and slow for being 185. Haven't been impressed so far.

Saints game he had carries of 31 and 24 yards.

Raiders game he had a 29 yard reception that was mostly on foot.

Chargers game he had carries of 21 yards and 19 yards. Also a reception of 12 yards mainly on foot.

Slow?

Ray Rice: outside of runs of 43 and 37, he's not had a run over 18 yards... and that's as being the starting RB with a lot of carries. Ronnie has had 4 carries of 18+ yards this season on 52 carries.

Ronnie is all on limited opportunities... if you watch the games you'd see he's just randomly stuck in there and the blocking isn't great most the time.

Hillman ran a 4.4... he's not as fast as a CJ or a Charles, but he's still fast.

Hillman was also highly graded for his vision which was great in college.

Action
11-27-2012, 04:16 PM
Nice, I still think Hillman has a decent future with us.

That being said, I believe Moreno does as well, and seeing how much our OL was manhandled only makes Moreno's game Sunday that much more impressive..

Moreno's YPC got hurt by the last 3 carries he had where the defense sold out on the run when we were obviously running.

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-27-2012, 04:28 PM
I'm not sure this is coached... as that is obviously not the design of the play. Again, taken the element of time, and the view, the oline was pushing towards the sidelines. Look at where Franklin is when Hillman gets the ball, and then a few steps later on the next picture.

Yes, possibly in the future he'll be able to read this quicker, but the point he is that it wasn't the design of the play and I've honestly rarely seen any of our RBs bounce out. I almost want to believe they're coached to stay disciplined and behind their blockers.

I hope they aren't being coached that way. Great RBs have good vision and quick reaction to different lanes. That would digress a back if he was told not to look for different avenues. You are right none of the backs react or adapt. It's so much different watching an Arian foster or Peterson.

Agamemnon
11-27-2012, 04:31 PM
Moreno's YPC got hurt by the last 3 carries he had where the defense sold out on the run when we were obviously running.

Not only did they sell out, our o-line pretty much let them into the backfield unchallenged. Those were not good plays for our o-line.

Action
11-27-2012, 04:47 PM
I hope they aren't being coached that way. Great RBs have good vision and quick reaction to different lanes. That would digress a back if he was told not to look for different avenues. You are right none of the backs react or adapt. It's so much different watching an Arian foster or Peterson.

Foster runs in a scheme where he's told to pick a hole...AP is just AP.

winstoncup bronco
11-27-2012, 04:53 PM
Great job and effort to OP.

Honestly, even if Hillman had 10 carries for 100 yards, it in no way makes it a harbinger for his career the same way a 10 carry, 10 yard game would.

The kid is a rookie playing in an offense being run by Peyton Manning. I still can't believe people are b****ing because this kid isn't winning fantasy games for them.

I'm sure any minute, someone will come in and label me a Hillman nuthugger, because, after all, reasonable thinking just isn't allowed around here.

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-27-2012, 05:06 PM
Great job and effort to OP.

Honestly, even if Hillman had 10 carries for 100 yards, it in no way makes it a harbinger for his career the same way a 10 carry, 10 yard game would.

The kid is a rookie playing in an offense being run by Peyton Manning. I still can't believe people are b****ing because this kid isn't winning fantasy games for them.

I'm sure any minute, someone will come in and label me a Hillman nuthugger, because, after all, reasonable thinking just isn't allowed around here.

Nuthugger

g6matty
11-27-2012, 05:07 PM
this thread is pointless. i dont need split second analysis to know he didnt do ****.

g6matty
11-27-2012, 05:09 PM
hes young hes not ready its as simple as that. hopefully he will develope maybe he will maybe he wont. we will defenately be searching for another runningback this years draft. with our first pick i definately would love to take ogletree from georgia to fill our void at MLB but in the second i would LOVE joseph randle from ok state. he would be an excellent denver bronco.

winstoncup bronco
11-27-2012, 05:10 PM
Nuthugger

:strong:

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-27-2012, 05:10 PM
this thread is pointless. i dont need split second analysis to know he didnt do ****.

Way to piss on Action's efforts here. If its pointless just stay off the thread.

dsmoot
11-27-2012, 05:20 PM
Way to piss on Action's efforts here. If its pointless just stay off the thread.

Thanks Action. Matty added nothing and should have kept his mouth shut.

Tombstone RJ
11-27-2012, 05:20 PM
Formation: 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB
Defense: 2 down linemen, 2 LB, 4 at the LOS and only 1 LB behind the LOS

Ronnie lines up behind Manning on what looks like should be a favorable matchup for the OLine and for a running play.

http://imageshack.us/a/img811/1388/play7a.jpg

It's a running play and Hillman gets the handoff. This is what he sees when he gets the ball. As you can see the line is pretty scrambled.

http://imageshack.us/a/img443/9579/play7b.jpg

The line doesn't give up much and this is Hillman approaching the LOS. There is an unblocked DB coming in and Ronnie decides to cut back in.

http://imageshack.us/a/img801/212/play7e.jpg

Ronnie Hillman cuts in.

http://imageshack.us/a/img853/8172/play7c.jpg

Hillman is able to find a small crease inside the DB and use his momentum to get a 1 yard run. He is tackled by the DB.

http://imageshack.us/a/img5/8509/play7d.jpg

Again, there wasn't much here on the play. You can say he could have tried to juke the DB and bounce out but that probably wouldn't be successful as the DB was running in with good technique. The play was obviously designed to go inside as most our running plays are.

Hillman should have followed the pulling guard, #68 Beadles, and bounced this running play outside, to the short side of the field. That would have been an easy 5 yards if not a whole lot more. Instead, he cuts it back up into the inside of Beadles for no gain.

I'm pretty sure Hillman was coached up to cut inside on this play since it is being run to the shortside of the field. The problem is he does not yet have the vision to see the opening to the outside. Hopefull his vision will develop with time but right now I think all he wants to do is do exactly what the coaches tell him to do, and run the play exactly the way it was designed. JMHO but that's what it looks like to me.

oubronco
11-27-2012, 05:29 PM
Play #5 and #7 if he cuts to the outside he gets yards instead of running into the lineman

#3 Manning threw it to Tamme for a good gain but if he throws it to Hillman Tamme is the blocker in front of Hillman and it could've been a huge gain, right?

SonOfLe-loLang
11-27-2012, 05:49 PM
Hillman should have followed the pulling guard, #68 Beadles, and bounced this running play outside, to the short side of the field. That would have been an easy 5 yards if not a whole lot more. Instead, he cuts it back up into the inside of Beadles for no gain.

I'm pretty sure Hillman was coached up to cut inside on this play since it is being run to the shortside of the field. The problem is he does not yet have the vision to see the opening to the outside. Hopefull his vision will develop with time but right now I think all he wants to do is do exactly what the coaches tell him to do, and run the play exactly the way it was designed. JMHO but that's what it looks like to me.

It doesnt look like Beadles was headed outside for that block

Tombstone RJ
11-27-2012, 06:12 PM
It doesnt look like Beadles was headed outside for that block

The pulling guard generally takes the first guy he sees, he puts his hat on the first red jersey he sees. Hillman should follow the guard (Beadles) and then adjust to Beadles block. However, it looks like Hillman stops and cuts up inside. Maybe it's because Hillman saw a kc red jersey and decided to cut it up inside? It's hard to know what Hillman saw from the angle we have.

Tombstone RJ
11-27-2012, 06:38 PM
After looking at the pics again I think this no-gain run is Beadles fault. From my perspective Beadles should have blocked the DB that is coming in on the play, but he doesn't, I'm not sure who Beadles is trying to block. Hillman sees the DB and cuts inside. The play is pretty much dead right there.

So, bad blocking my friends, bad blocking.

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-27-2012, 06:46 PM
After looking at the pics again I think this no-gain run is Beadles fault. From my perspective Beadles should have blocked the DB that is coming in on the play, but he doesn't, I'm not sure who Beadles is trying to block. Hillman sees the DB and cuts inside. The play is pretty much dead right there.

So, bad blocking my friends, bad blocking.

I noticed that too. Looks like he turns in and there's already a chief coming through? From the looks of it if Beadles stays outside for that DB something could've happened better than the result.

maher_tyler
11-27-2012, 07:54 PM
After looking at the pics again I think this no-gain run is Beadles fault. From my perspective Beadles should have blocked the DB that is coming in on the play, but he doesn't, I'm not sure who Beadles is trying to block. Hillman sees the DB and cuts inside. The play is pretty much dead right there.

So, bad blocking my friends, bad blocking.

I was going to say...if Beadles blocks that safety...that's a TD! How did he not block that safety..i'd really like to be in the film room to get his thoughts on the play. This is why we were going to draft Castro! Beadles is never going to be better than an average guard.

DENVERDUI55
11-27-2012, 08:10 PM
Nice thread. You can see why KC played us good they contained the run game pretty well with 5 and 6 guys. Run game was good but could of been great with the yards left on the field. Denver OL isn't a great run blocking unit. Ronnie needs developement he isn't like Porridge who was ready and explosive immediately.

Kaylore
11-27-2012, 08:19 PM
Thanks for doing this Action. We talked about this thread on our podcast tonight!

BowlenBall
11-27-2012, 08:30 PM
A great thread, Action -- appreciate the work that you put into it!

The Hillman/Holliday backfield is intriguing.... too bad that McCoy likes to run that combo up the middle instead of running sweeps, misdirection plays, and screens.... Maybe we picked up Jacob Hester to be 'Mr. Outside' to Ronnie Hillman's 'Mr. Inside'.

Blart
11-28-2012, 01:15 AM
Awesome thread. The OM has been really great this season.

Action
11-28-2012, 01:44 AM
Thanks for doing this Action. We talked about this thread on our podcast tonight!

:thumbs::thumbsup:

Bacchus
11-28-2012, 01:46 AM
So from all these pictures it really looks like he sucks bad.

Action
11-28-2012, 01:50 AM
So from all these pictures it really looks like he sucks bad.

I can't really tell if you're serious...

ol#7
11-28-2012, 02:46 AM
I am not really sure what we are supposed to take away from this. So far I havent seen anything from Hillman that makes me think he has it in him to be special. Just looks utterly forgettable and average most of the time. Not to say you don't need guys like that, but thats what my impression has been so far.

Denver Bronco56
11-28-2012, 07:11 AM
I went to University of South Carolina while Trindon was at LSU. While he was still primarily a special teams player, when he was used on offense it was out the backfield or on routes to get him in space and obviously a player with is speed makes that very dangerous and keeps the defense off guard.

When he got a pass a couple weeks back he was able to get a quick 11 yards out of it, and i remember in a manning interview he was talking about the possibilities the offense could have if they could get Trindon on the field.

Action
11-28-2012, 02:46 PM
I am not really sure what we are supposed to take away from this. So far I havent seen anything from Hillman that makes me think he has it in him to be special. Just looks utterly forgettable and average most of the time. Not to say you don't need guys like that, but thats what my impression has been so far.

His opportunities are limited.

He doesn't need to be "special." Special is Adrian Peterson. Peyton Manning.

Players aren't just gauged by being being unforgettable or special... but maybe that's different amongst different fans.

Kaylore
11-28-2012, 02:49 PM
I think Hillman still doesn't know the offense well enough. I think functionally he can block and do what they need to, but I don't know if mentally he is in tune enough to have three plays memorized every down ready so when Manning checks he isn't lost. In a hostile enviornment they want to go with Moreno just because he always knows where he's supposed to be rather than risk poor communication and a blown play by the rookie.

I also want to reitereate that Kuper had a good game and it was Clady and Beadles who struggled.

fontaine
11-28-2012, 03:15 PM
I think Hillman still doesn't know the offense well enough. I think functionally he can block and do what they need to, but I don't know if mentally he is in tune enough to have three plays memorized every down ready so when Manning checks he isn't lost. In a hostile enviornment they want to go with Moreno just because he always knows where he's supposed to be rather than risk poor communication and a blown play by the rookie.

I also want to reitereate that Kuper had a good game and it was Clady and Beadles who struggled.

Kuper did have a good game considering he was just back from injury. He lined up against Tyson Jackson mainly but they also moved Tamba Hali inside a couple of times and Kuper picked him up well.

On running plays he pretty much kuperred Dontari Poe 5, 6 yards down the field.

He did give up a sack to Tyson Jackson but that was because Manning held onto the ball and ran into Jackson who was still at the line of scrimmage being blocked by Kuper and landed a lucky coverage sack.

Bronco Yoda
11-28-2012, 03:35 PM
I think Hillman still doesn't know the offense well enough. I think functionally he can block and do what they need to, but I don't know if mentally he is in tune enough to have three plays memorized every down ready so when Manning checks he isn't lost. In a hostile enviornment they want to go with Moreno just because he always knows where he's supposed to be rather than risk poor communication and a blown play by the rookie.

I also want to reitereate that Kuper had a good game and it was Clady and Beadles who struggled.

yeah Beadles had a rough night out there.