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View Full Version : Jake the Snake is back in Colorado


Boobs McGee
11-26-2012, 09:45 AM
Found this on Reddit today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/sports/football/jake-plummer-rekindles-his-love-for-the-game-he-left.html

"His mind drifted back to Colorado, where his wife had family. Their return was clinched when he spotted a house for sale within 10 minutes of the most pristine outdoor handball courts in the state. A few weeks after the move, Plummer attended the Broncos’ season opener against the Steelers by himself, with a ticket given to him by the Broncos’ owner, Pat Bowlen. When parachutists descended into the stadium for a pregame celebration, Plummer saw that the crowd was distracted. He left the owner’s box, walked down to the mezzanine and stood inside a walkway at the 45-yard line.

Plummer said fans did double-takes when they saw him. But as the game continued, he reminisced with longtime security guards, talked with a young fan whose parents had told him not to bother Plummer, high-fived a mascot and was treated to a few beers by fans who said they remembered him fondly.

Plummer later slipped down to the sideline to watch Manning and Roethlisberger, who had each ruined his postseason hopes. But Plummer did not dwell on that. He cheered on the Broncos’ defense, the way he used to as a player, when he wanted to get back out onto the field as quickly as possible.

After the Broncos won, 31-19, Plummer sat on a patch of grass outside and watched jubilant fans exit the stadium.

“I used to play a big part of that,” Plummer said. “Sending people out of the stadium ecstatic and full of energy.”

The article mentions (very) briefly that he might want to look at getting into television. I don't know how he'd do as an analyst, but I'd be interested to see. Couldn't be any worse than Trent Dilfer.

Anywho, I know there are many here that don't like him, but welcome back Jake!

BroncoMan4ever
11-26-2012, 09:58 AM
Still my second favorite Broncos QB. He got a bad rap and was screwed by Shanahan, when all the guy did was win games for this team.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
11-26-2012, 10:01 AM
KC COULD OF USED HIM YESTERDAY LOL

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
11-26-2012, 10:02 AM
maybe Jake can coach CU

bronco militia
11-26-2012, 10:03 AM
the Orange Manes favorite quitter has returned!

ZZZ...

Pick Six
11-26-2012, 10:14 AM
I regret giving away my Plummer jersey. At the time, it was a gut reaction to quitting football. As as time went by, I came to understand that all he did was win football games. As a Broncos fan, I'm very appreciative of what Plummer accomplished...:thumbs:

lonestar
11-26-2012, 10:20 AM
Still my second favorite Broncos QB. He got a bad rap and was screwed by Shanahan, when all the guy did was win games for this team.

on this we agree.. had his best season ever after working most of the off season with Kubes and killed it that season..

could he have won it all, many that hated him say no.. But I'm not so sure had mikey gotten OL somewhere besides the last 4 rounds in the draft, who knows what might have happened..

lonestar
11-26-2012, 10:23 AM
the Orange Manes favorite quitter has returned!

ZZZ...

ah a hater.. sounds like envy to me..

If you had millions in the bank, had a super hot girlfriend and the prospects of getting your butt kicked and beat up WEEKLY with a lousy team in Florida what would you do?

bronco militia
11-26-2012, 10:28 AM
ah a hater.. sounds like envy to me..

If you had millions in the bank, had a super hot girlfriend and the prospects of getting your butt kicked and beat up WEEKLY with a lousy team in Florida what would you do?

I didn't really care for jake before, during, or after his time with the Broncos. He was an upgrade over Brian Griese and that was about it.

Cache Glades
11-26-2012, 10:39 AM
72% win percentage. 3 playoff appearances in 5 yrs... Only the ego that is Mike Shanahan would have run this guy out of town

Kaylore
11-26-2012, 10:40 AM
Jake stopped caring about football. That's what got him benched. He was a glorious game day QB. He was a terrible Wednesday-Friday QB.

v2micca
11-26-2012, 10:47 AM
I appreciated what Jake did for the Broncos during his time as our signal caller. And I can respect that there was just more to life for him than football alone. I didn't care for his public schadenfreude at the misfortune of Shanahan and the Broncos, and felt his ongoing snipes served to diminish both men. Other than that, I would gladly buy him a beer if I ever ran into him in a sports bar.

SoCalBronco
11-26-2012, 10:50 AM
Unfortunate.

Lestat
11-26-2012, 10:52 AM
still my 4th fav Broncos QB. Elway-Manning-Cutler-Plummer.
i don't have the hate that some do for him. i knew from his days as a Cardinal what to expect and what not to.

Pick Six
11-26-2012, 10:53 AM
He was the king of the bootleg. When Kubiak left, Plummer's weaknesses were exposed...

lonestar
11-26-2012, 10:55 AM
Jake stopped caring about football. That's what got him benched. He was a glorious game day QB. He was a terrible Wednesday-Friday QB.

Except the last year Kubes was here spent most of the off season studying film with him and he numbers were never better that year.

Frankly after Kubes his buffer from mikey left, dinger came to town and redid the offensive scheme to rpfeature drop back passing and then the coup de gra of drafting the pro typical drop back passer. He saw the writing on the wall.

Had the OL been designed for pass protect instead of ZBS and roll out passing, then perhaps that would have been a good move. But he was forced to play a style of ball he was never comfortable with and the OL stunk at it.

Some will note that the next year jay was running for his life also and then it seemed to be okay, yet they forced it on Jake.

Given those circumstances what would you have done? More money than he needed for his life style, a stunning girlfriend now wife and a passion for handball.

Instead of getting beat up each week or "sleeping" late with his sweetie pie, seems like an easy choice for any reasonable intelligent person to make.

Lestat
11-26-2012, 10:56 AM
He was the king of the bootleg. When Kubiak left, Plummer's weaknesses were exposed...

i still don't understand why the bootleg is so underutilized by mobile QB's today.
i loved seeing him roll out and get on the edge to deliver the football or take off and run for some nice yards.

v2micca
11-26-2012, 11:05 AM
i still don't understand why the bootleg is so underutilized by mobile QB's today.
i loved seeing him roll out and get on the edge to deliver the football or take off and run for some nice yards.

Because the Bootleg is largely a constraint play. It will burn teams that are cheating off the line or playing undisciplined. A team that is playing disciplined assignment based football will eat it alive. The Plummer-led Broncos were able to use it so effectively because our bread and butter was actually zone runs where the back could cut back between the tackles. We would use the bootleg when teams started cheating off the edges to try to seal the backside.

lonestar
11-26-2012, 11:08 AM
i still don't understand why the bootleg is so underutilized by mobile QB's today.
i loved seeing him roll out and get on the edge to deliver the football or take off and run for some nice yards.

PIT stopped it by setting the edge and not allowing our running game to function as they made sure their DL played the gaps. That allowed them to contain Jake to keep him from rolling out.

In fact many times our porus OL allowed defenders to get back to the drop back spot almost as fast as Jake could.

While everyone raved about our great OL PIT destroyed it.

sgbfan
11-26-2012, 11:10 AM
I liked Plummer a lot as a player and even more as a person. He isn't your typical QB. What QB quits at 33 to play handball?

That said, the offense wasn't doing anything with him there and playing Cutler was the right move at the time. Now with hindsight, I think the Broncos would have been better off getting more help for Plummer after going to the AFCCG than drafting Cutler though, given how Cutler is such a punk.

BowlenBall
11-26-2012, 11:15 AM
still my 4th fav Broncos QB. Elway-Manning-Cutler-Plummer.
i don't have the hate that some do for him. i knew from his days as a Cardinal what to expect and what not to.

I've got him somewhere in the middle... Plummer had a few good times, a few bad times....

1. Elway
2. Tebow
3. Kubiak
4. Briscoe
5. Manning (rising up the list fast)
6. Plummer
7. Morton
8. Tripucka
9. Moore
10. Maddox
11. Griese
12. Cutler
13. Orton

SoCalBronco
11-26-2012, 11:25 AM
1. Elway
2. Cutler
3. Manning
...



4. Everyone else

Lestat
11-26-2012, 11:34 AM
Because the Bootleg is largely a constraint play. It will burn teams that are cheating off the line or playing undisciplined. A team that is playing disciplined assignment based football will eat it alive. The Plummer-led Broncos were able to use it so effectively because our bread and butter was actually zone runs where the back could cut back between the tackles. We would use the bootleg when teams started cheating off the edges to try to seal the backside.

yes but most defenses in the NFL are undisciplined. they barely tackle properly, take bad angles, go for kill shots instead of wrapping up and most don't set the edge.

you can use the bootleg as a mobile pocket to take pressure off the QB and allow him some more time to deliver the pass or tuck it and run to pick up some cheap yards.

i'm not saying run it every play but in the red zone near the goal line when the DL is packed to stop the up the gut run you can break it out to take the defense by surprise.

mwill07
11-26-2012, 11:42 AM
I've got him somewhere in the middle... Plummer had a few good times, a few bad times....

1. Elway
2. Tebow
3. Kubiak
4. Briscoe
5. Manning (rising up the list fast)
6. Plummer
7. Morton
8. Tripucka
9. Moore
10. Maddox
11. Griese
12. Cutler
13. Orton

lol @ Maddox > Griese, cutler, or Orton.

Not saying I disagree...

2KBack
11-26-2012, 11:43 AM
yes but most defenses in the NFL are undisciplined. they barely tackle properly, take bad angles, go for kill shots instead of wrapping up and most don't set the edge.

you can use the bootleg as a mobile pocket to take pressure off the QB and allow him so more time to deliver the pass or tuck it and run to pick up some cheap yards.

i'm not saying run it every play but in the red zone near the goal line when the DL is packed to stop the up the gut run you can break it out to take the defense by surprise.

Kubes still runs it pretty often, and Shanahan has gone back to it with Griffin and it's been great for them.

Lestat
11-26-2012, 11:44 AM
Kubes still runs it pretty often, and Shanahan has gone back to it with Griffin and it's been great for them.

indeed, Carolina does it with Cam from time to time but not nearly as often as Shanny with RGIII.

s0phr0syne
11-26-2012, 11:48 AM
1. Elway
2. Cutler
3. Manning
...



4. Everyone else


:spit::drown::kiddingmeUhh:notthissh:saywhat:hmmm. ..:juggle:Knowitall

HAT
11-26-2012, 11:50 AM
1) Elway
2) Manning
3) Plummer
4) Orton
5) Tebow BVP tie

:thumbs:

Kid A
11-26-2012, 11:58 AM
1. Elway
2. Cutler
3. Manning
...



4. Everyone else

Manning, in 11 games, has already virtually locked us into a playoff spot.

Cutler, in 3 seasons, never made the playoffs. This can't be held fully against him (I tend to think he is a very good QB, just look how terrible Chicago is without him), but the fact remains that his Bronco contributions were very minimal. Diabetes awareness maybe?

gyldenlove
11-26-2012, 12:12 PM
I always had a soft spot for Plummer, he was such a sandlot QB, the Ben Roethlisberger of his day without the rapeyness. He was never the best athlete, never the best arm, never the most cerebral QB, never the greatest leader but he was a gamer through and through and he loved what he did. Plummer is one of the few guys I can honestly say I believe never did it for the money, he did it for the love of the game.

lonestar
11-26-2012, 12:22 PM
I always had a soft spot for Plummer, he was such a sandlot QB, the Ben Roethlisberger of his day without the rapeyness. He was never the best athlete, never the best arm, never the most cerebral QB, never the greatest leader but he was a gamer through and through and he loved what he did. Plummer is one of the few guys I can honestly say I believe never did it for the money, he did it for the love of the game.


even though he was in the Heisman race 2nd IIRC that year, he said he really had never given any thought of playing in the NFL..

He also said that getting paid for doing something he'd normally do for free was funny to him..

he drove boxy old honda, wore jeans and t shirt dated the cheerleader and was a millionaire.. how many on this forum would have loved to have that life..

every time they needed money for ca space he agreed to a new contract always getting the up front money and stashing it in the bank opposed to getting bling..

so when it was time to walk away he could a rich man..

the ultimate gamer..

Lestat
11-26-2012, 12:30 PM
even though he was in the Heisman race 2nd IIRC that year, he said he really had never given any thought of playing in the NFL..

He also said that getting paid for doing something he'd normally do for free was funny to him..

he drove boxy old honda, wore jeans and t shirt dated the cheerleader and was a millionaire.. how many on this forum would have loved to have that life..

every time they needed money for ca space he agreed to a new contract always getting the up front money and stashing it in the bank opposed to getting bling..

so when it was time to walk away he could a rich man..

the ultimate gamer..

and that's how a NFL player who makes a ton of money during his playing career should go out.
still loaded and set for life. if you can retire at 33 to play handball or golf then you did what you were supposed to do with your money.

baja
11-26-2012, 12:39 PM
Found this on Reddit today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/sports/football/jake-plummer-rekindles-his-love-for-the-game-he-left.html

"His mind drifted back to Colorado, where his wife had family. Their return was clinched when he spotted a house for sale within 10 minutes of the most pristine outdoor handball courts in the state. A few weeks after the move, Plummer attended the Broncos’ season opener against the Steelers by himself, with a ticket given to him by the Broncos’ owner, Pat Bowlen. When parachutists descended into the stadium for a pregame celebration, Plummer saw that the crowd was distracted. He left the owner’s box, walked down to the mezzanine and stood inside a walkway at the 45-yard line.

Plummer said fans did double-takes when they saw him. But as the game continued, he reminisced with longtime security guards, talked with a young fan whose parents had told him not to bother Plummer, high-fived a mascot and was treated to a few beers by fans who said they remembered him fondly.

Plummer later slipped down to the sideline to watch Manning and Roethlisberger, who had each ruined his postseason hopes. But Plummer did not dwell on that. He cheered on the Broncos’ defense, the way he used to as a player, when he wanted to get back out onto the field as quickly as possible.

After the Broncos won, 31-19, Plummer sat on a patch of grass outside and watched jubilant fans exit the stadium.

“I used to play a big part of that,” Plummer said. “Sending people out of the stadium ecstatic and full of energy.”

The article mentions (very) briefly that he might want to look at getting into television. I don't know how he'd do as an analyst, but I'd be interested to see. Couldn't be any worse than Trent Dilfer.

Anywho, I know there are many here that don't like him, but welcome back Jake!

I always liked Jake both as a man and as a player. Thought it was a huge mistake to bench him when we were 7 & 3. I understand when you think you got a chance to draft a franchise QB you do it but Jake should have have been assured he had the season as long as he was winning. The move divided the locker room and ruined Jake, as a result the season was a failure. Cutler needed to sit that year for his sake and the teams sake. Think it is very telling when Cutler said he was shocked when Shanny drafted him, you better know all you can about the guy when you are looking to him to be the face of the franchise for the next 15 years and Shanny never even talked to him.

Chris
11-26-2012, 12:54 PM
1. Elway
2. Cutler
3. Manning
...



4. Everyone else

:puff:

How in the world is Cutler ahead of Manning?

Boobs McGee
11-26-2012, 03:23 PM
REALLY miss the bootleg as well. Did anyone else catch San Fran utilizing it yesterday? Brought a shiver to me spine!

broncocalijohn
11-26-2012, 03:41 PM
:puff:

How in the world is Cutler ahead of Manning?

Easy. If he put Cutler behind Manning, who will be leading us to the playoffs, then he has to admit Shanny isn't all that he is cracked up to be. Cutler gave us zero playoff appearances but can you blame the head coach? Nope. All on Pat Bowlen...according to SoCal.

broncocalijohn
11-26-2012, 03:42 PM
1) Elway
2) Manning
3) Plummer
4) Orton
5) Tebow BVP tie

:thumbs:

Where is Morton in all this? Geez, forgotten history.

broncosteven
11-26-2012, 03:52 PM
I've got him somewhere in the middle... Plummer had a few good times, a few bad times....

1. Elway
2. Tebow
3. Kubiak
4. Briscoe
5. Manning (rising up the list fast)
6. Plummer
7. Morton
8. Tripucka
9. Moore
10. Maddox
11. Griese
12. Cutler
13. Orton

No way Morton is 7 on that list! You have a backup as your 3rd best QB?

1) Elway
2) Morton
3) Manning (with a bullet)
Pick one:
4) Cutler
4) SOB (mostly for the one good year he had)
4) Plummer (could be higher if he didn't quit like a loser)

DAN_BRONCO_FAN
11-26-2012, 04:43 PM
the problem with jake is he was a one trick pony like tebow as soon as teams saw he only does the bootleg or roll out whatever it was called when you take the ball roll to your right and throw. maybe shanny should of came up with more plays . for jake unless jake could only do that and not just the drop back

SoCalBronco
11-26-2012, 04:46 PM
:puff:

How in the world is Cutler ahead of Manning?

What do you mean how is he ahead of Manning? Cutler is my favorite offensive player n the entire NFL. That's how. I'm not saying he is better or worse than Manning but of all the Brobco QBs he is my 2nd favorite.

Taco John
11-26-2012, 05:03 PM
1. Elway
2. Manning
3. Elway
4. Manning
5. Elway

Cito Pelon
11-26-2012, 05:10 PM
Jake stopped caring about football. That's what got him benched. He was a glorious game day QB. He was a terrible Wednesday-Friday QB.

Yup.

But nice to hear Bowlen gave him a ticket to a game and he came back to say hello. Jake was a different kind of guy from the get go. Nalen and the OL guys loved him, so that kind of paints the picture about Jake. Nalen absolutely hated Jay Cutler, still says so to this day.

Popps
11-26-2012, 05:11 PM
What do you mean how is he ahead of Manning? Cutler is my favorite offensive player n the entire NFL. That's how. I'm not saying he is better or worse than Manning but of all the Brobco QBs he is my 2nd favorite.

:rofl:

I love you, brother. You'll go to any length for a joke. Honestly, to keep this up this long is just epic.

Popps
11-26-2012, 05:13 PM
As for Jake, he was basically the 2nd winningest QB we've had and brought excitement back to Broncos football. He'll always be a favorite. Those were some fun years.

But, this year and the next couple should be even more fun.

24champ
11-26-2012, 05:13 PM
1. Elway
2. Cutler
3. Manning
...



4. Everyone else

Cutler never led the broncos to the playoffs.

KipCorrington25
11-26-2012, 05:21 PM
Is it really time again for the annual "Complain to the media about how mean Shannahan was to me" tour? Wow, a year goes by so quickly.

Cito Pelon
11-26-2012, 05:24 PM
What do you mean how is he ahead of Manning? Cutler is my favorite offensive player n the entire NFL. That's how. I'm not saying he is better or worse than Manning but of all the Brobco QBs he is my 2nd favorite.

You and Tom Nalen would get into a big argument about that. Nalen has been on the radio for a couple years now here, and he makes no bones about his disdain for Jay Cutler. Dude makes no bones about it, I've heard him say "Well, his name starts with an "A" to me, I won't finish that, but you know what I mean."

Taco John
11-26-2012, 05:25 PM
Is it really time again for the annual "Complain to the media about how mean Shannahan was to me" tour? Wow, a year goes by so quickly.

Can you believe that Shanahan made Plummer focus in practice?

orinjkrush
11-26-2012, 06:14 PM
you guys are on (legalized) drugs.

1 Elway
2 Morton
3 Plummer
4 Tripuka
5 Manning and rising
5a. Tebow
6 Griese
7 Orton
8 Kubiak
9 who cares? deBerg?

sinuous sausage
11-26-2012, 06:21 PM
Neckbeard 1.0

cabronco
11-26-2012, 06:25 PM
Cutler never led the broncos to the playoffs.

He don't care.

extralife
11-26-2012, 08:18 PM
never liked Plummer. plenty of people see a guy who won a lot of games; I see a guy who prevented us from winning the ones that mattered.

no hard feelings, but seeing his name certainly doesn't fill me with nostalgia.

lonestar
11-26-2012, 08:20 PM
never liked Plummer. plenty of people see a guy who won a lot of games; I see a guy who prevented us from winning the ones that mattered.

no hard feelings, but seeing his name certainly doesn't fill me with nostalgia.

Pray tell how did he prevent those wins?

Rohirrim
11-26-2012, 08:26 PM
I sure liked Jake the Snake better than I did the Frown Cannon.

baja
11-26-2012, 08:27 PM
So did most of the locker room.

Hamrob
11-26-2012, 08:48 PM
Elway
Manning
Morton
Tripuka
Cutler
Plummer
Deberg
Griese

extralife
11-26-2012, 08:48 PM
Pray tell how did he prevent those wins?

by not being very good

I mean I could show you the stat line against Pittsburgh in case you forgot, but that doesn't tell a third of it. the guy couldn't throw the ball from the pocket. at all. that's a bit of a problem.

Hamrob
11-26-2012, 08:51 PM
I liked watching Plummer. The best thing about Jake to me......was, his teammates respected him! I thought that Shanny should have stuck with Plummer to finish out the year...and had him start the next year as well. I really think Plummer was solid...and Cutler could have used another year to year and a half learning. But, I think having drafted Cutler...there was no going back...Plummer didn't like it and thus the locker room was divided.

Great player...good QB.

lonestar
11-26-2012, 10:45 PM
by not being very good

I mean I could show you the stat line against Pittsburgh in case you forgot, but that doesn't tell a third of it. the guy couldn't throw the ball from the pocket. at all. that's a bit of a problem.

I suspect you aphave selective memory.

While Jake did not have a stellar game. Having an OL that could not block for the running game, which had all year opened up the passing game with play fakes.

I remember seeing the Blitzers in the backfield sometimes before Jake had a chance to get there himself.

I remember Ben setting a record during the game for 3rd down conversions.

I remember PIT Having almost a 14 minute TOP advantage.

I remember PIT coaches completely out coaching the mastermind.

I remember Jake almost being the rushing leader that day and getting sacked and harassed all day.

I remember about the only player on O that was still trying to win the game late in the game was Jake.

Dick Leabuea kicked Mikey's ass that day and mikey had no adjustments to counter with.


But hey for you cutlet fans I'm sure you forgot some of those things.

extralife
11-26-2012, 10:49 PM
ok, I get it. the root of your shanahan hate was his benching of the pick throwing handball player. good to know.

DarkHorse30
11-26-2012, 11:52 PM
Elway is that guy that is bringing everybody back....I find it amazing that I like him better as a VP than as a QB.

baja
11-26-2012, 11:58 PM
Elway is that guy that is bringing everybody back....I find it amazing that I like him better as a VP than as a QB.

As exciting as John was as a player/ gunslinger I understand that sentiment as outrageous as some will say that statement of yours is.

He is certainly more Ozzie Newsome than Matt Millian

Taco John
11-27-2012, 12:49 AM
Pray tell how did he prevent those wins?

It went something like this:
http://i.imgur.com/SF1dt.jpg


Plummer was a terrible big game quarterback. I really hoped a lot out of him, but when it came to big games where we HAD to have a win, the pressure got to the guy. And it showed up in spades once he had Cutler riding on his shoulder. Plummer isn't cut out for stress. He'll tell you as much himself if you bother to read between the lines of what he says.

Jetland
11-27-2012, 12:53 AM
I liked watching Plummer. The best thing about Jake to me......was, his teammates respected him! I thought that Shanny should have stuck with Plummer to finish out the year...and had him start the next year as well. I really think Plummer was solid...and Cutler could have used another year to year and a half learning. But, I think having drafted Cutler...there was no going back...Plummer didn't like it and thus the locker room was divided.

Great player...good QB.

knowing what we now know about Jay Cutler if he had to sit out a whole year he probably would have quit the NFL and moved onto competitive sulking.

lonestar
11-27-2012, 01:24 AM
ok, I get it. the root of your shanahan hate was his benching of the pick throwing handball player. good to know.

Not at all. My dislike for mikey the GM started in about 03 when I started looking at his pathetic personnel decisions whether it be UFA, the DAFT in his case or coaching moves.

As for that pick thrower, as you call him. ..after setting down with Kubes in the offseason before the championship run in 05. He was near the NFL record at the time for passes between picks..

He had the lowest pick number of his career and had a career year.

BTW his number of (7) picks was lower than anyone in the top 20 that year.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=QUARTERBACK&season=2005&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go

Sounds like your jealous of a guy that walked away from the game, a very rich man with his hot girlfriend and now plays handball because he loves the sport.

But then that was how I read your post.

lonestar
11-27-2012, 01:33 AM
It went something like this:
http://i.imgur.com/SF1dt.jpg


Plummer was a terrible big game quarterback. I really hoped a lot out of him, but when it came to big games where we HAD to have a win, the pressure got to the guy. And it showed up in spades once he had Cutler riding on his shoulder. Plummer isn't cut out for stress. He'll tell you as much himself if you bother to read between the lines of what he says.

Iirc he held the record for come back games, in the fourth quarter. Hardly something that chokers manage to do.

As for cutlet what did you expect him to do. Kubes left his buffer between Jake and mikey. When he left mikey brought in his college room mate IIRC to run a drop back passing style offense, even though the OL was not designed for it.
Mikey did not even have the guts to call Jake to tell him they were drafting cutlet, he had to learn of it from a reporter calling to get his reaction.

The guy had a career year and gets the triple whammy from his HC..

Sure fire way to build trust and a relationship.

But then Jake did retire taking one more thing form the broncos besides all the star money mikey threw at hi each time he needed cap relief.p, that would be one of their cheerleaders. Jake laughed all the way to the bank in Idaho with his wife.

extralife
11-27-2012, 01:46 AM
As for that pick thrower, as you call him. ..after setting down with Kubes in the offseason before the championship run in 05. He was near the NFL record at the time for passes between picks..

He had the lowest pick number of his career and had a career year.

BTW his number of (7) picks was lower than anyone in the top 20 that year.

yes, jake plummer didn't throw picks for the same reason alex smith doesn't toss interceptions today (and still found a seat on the bench): he wasn't allowed to. if mike and gary put together a gameplan in which jake plummer was to drop back in the pocket and throw it 40 times a game, he would have thrown 30 picks. they maximized the one thing he was able to do (roll out, read half the field), plopped him behind the best running game in the NFL, and literally took everything else out of the playbook. hence, liability.

Taco John
11-27-2012, 02:26 AM
Iirc he held the record for come back games, in the fourth quarter. Hardly something that chokers manage to do.


I don't care what he did in Arizona. When he played for the Broncos, there wasn't a big game he didn't manage to choke on. Some guys have it, some guys dont. Plummer had a lot of heart, but he couldn't manage the pressure, and eventually cracked his way out of the league. I'm glad for the guy - he's got a hell of a great life now. And I'll give him some credit as well - he pulled the Broncos out of a dark place and gave people hope again, even if it was short lived.

fontaine
11-27-2012, 03:23 AM
As for Jake, he was basically the 2nd winningest QB we've had and brought excitement back to Broncos football. He'll always be a favorite. Those were some fun years.

But, this year and the next couple should be even more fun.

Not sure what games you were watching but, I was always excited watching Al Wilson, Champ, Portis, Anderson, Rod, Sharpe.

Watching a gimmick QB run around trying to complete a pass to one half of the field wasn't exciting.

BowlenBall
11-27-2012, 03:34 AM
No way Morton is 7 on that list! You have a backup as your 3rd best QB?

1) Elway
2) Morton
3) Manning (with a bullet)
Pick one:
4) Cutler
4) SOB (mostly for the one good year he had)
4) Plummer (could be higher if he didn't quit like a loser)

The theme wasn't "Best Broncos QBs". The theme was "Favorite QBs". Morton wasn't particularly loveable....

Shananahan
11-27-2012, 06:14 AM
As for that pick thrower, as you call him. ..after setting down with Kubes in the offseason before the championship run in 05. He was near the NFL record at the time for passes between picks..

He had the lowest pick number of his career and had a career year.

BTW his number of (7) picks was lower than anyone in the top 20 that year.
If I remember correctly, the only reason Plummer did not set the record for most passes or snaps without a turnover was a pre-half time Hail Mary which was intercepted. Without that play he owns it.

Meck77
11-27-2012, 07:03 AM
I'll have to dig through my archives one of these days and post pics of Jake's first day of training camp. Things were so dark in Denver after the Griese ere you could hardly find a fan wearing a Broncos hat on the streets. That's no BS!

All of you internet haters don't understand how bad it was.

Then in comes Jake Plummer. First day of camp the crowd erupts. The crowd suddenly has playoff aspirations. The collective chant of "Superbowl! Superbowl! Superbowl!" explodes from the crowd! Jake is pumping his arm in the air leading the crowd!

Mile High becomes magical again. Tailgating scene is rocking! Broncos are suddenly thrust into the playoff picture year after year with a climax of the AFC West Championship game.

Screw the haters. The city of Denver, the fans at the Stadium appreciated what Jake brought to our city. It was called winning!

strafen
11-27-2012, 08:34 AM
the Orange Manes favorite quitter has returned!

ZZZ...

I put JP on the same plane as McDaniels, Orton, Brister, Griese, etc...
Who cares...

lonestar
11-27-2012, 09:23 AM
I don't care what he did in Arizona. When he played for the Broncos, there wasn't a big game he didn't manage to choke on. Some guys have it, some guys dont. Plummer had a lot of heart, but he couldn't manage the pressure, and eventually cracked his way out of the league. I'm glad for the guy - he's got a hell of a great life now. And I'll give him some credit as well - he pulled the Broncos out of a dark place and gave people hope again, even if it was short lived.

IIRC he had a lousy winning record in AZ, and a lot of those comebacks were in DEN. Not going to look it up but if anyone wants to fine by me.

But I'm pretty sure he was getting close to JOHNs number of saves.

So beleive what you will, I'd take heart and hustle over a another Jeff George any day. That we're the choices after Gary left, whom in a lot of folks minds was really getting the job done as OC.

lonestar
11-27-2012, 09:29 AM
I'll have to dig through my archives one of these days and post pics of Jake's first day of training camp. Things were so dark in Denver after the Griese ere you could hardly find a fan wearing a Broncos hat on the streets. That's no BS!

All of you internet haters don't understand how bad it was.

Then in comes Jake Plummer. First day of camp the crowd erupts. The crowd suddenly has playoff aspirations. The collective chant of "Superbowl! Superbowl! Superbowl!" explodes from the crowd! Jake is pumping his arm in the air leading the crowd!

Mile High becomes magical again. Tailgating scene is rocking! Broncos are suddenly thrust into the playoff picture year after year with a climax of the AFC West Championship game.

Screw the haters. The city of Denver, the fans at the Stadium appreciated what Jake brought to our city. It was called winning!

Iirc his last game with AZ was at mile high or one of the last ones. I seem to remember the announcers toward the end of the game were saying the crowd was in unison chanting Jake Jake.

It was the start of a love affair with the kid. I know during the game I was thinking this kid has heart and never quit.

Tombstone RJ
11-27-2012, 09:35 AM
I'll have to dig through my archives one of these days and post pics of Jake's first day of training camp. Things were so dark in Denver after the Griese ere you could hardly find a fan wearing a Broncos hat on the streets. That's no BS!

All of you internet haters don't understand how bad it was.

Then in comes Jake Plummer. First day of camp the crowd erupts. The crowd suddenly has playoff aspirations. The collective chant of "Superbowl! Superbowl! Superbowl!" explodes from the crowd! Jake is pumping his arm in the air leading the crowd!

Mile High becomes magical again. Tailgating scene is rocking! Broncos are suddenly thrust into the playoff picture year after year with a climax of the AFC West Championship game.

Screw the haters. The city of Denver, the fans at the Stadium appreciated what Jake brought to our city. It was called winning!

:thumbsup:

I was high on Plummer too.

Tombstone RJ
11-27-2012, 09:40 AM
My top fav Broncos QBs:

1. Elway (of course)
2. Manning (HoF QB)
3. Plummer (a bright spot in a mind numbing time for the Broncos)
4. Kubiak (his overall contribution to the Broncos is fantastic)
6. Pretty much everyone else

Mediator12
11-27-2012, 10:04 AM
Jake Plummer. Sheesh.

I never had more expectations for a guy than I did Plummer in DEN. Plummer did have all the tools of Joe Montana and he was a lot more mobile. The thing against Jake was he refused to take it seriously. He was extremely talented, but he did not work at it. I truly thought if he got a chance to work with Shanahan to see how good he could be and see how hard the best worked at their craft not only would he get better, he would become better than Steve Young at his peak with SF and approaching that level of play Montana was able to get under Walsh. I was extremely happy he came to DEN.

Then it happened. He just did enough to get by. With no real QB behind him on the roster, he coasted. He gave his all on the field, and he is a natural competitor. However, he was never a winner. He neglected the one thing that makes the difference at that level and that is mental preparation and physical repetitions. While the current DEN QB ate, lived, and breathed Football, Jake was out playing the part. He was active in all kinds of things, but getting better as a player every day. He rarely stayed and threw after practice with the WR's and TE's. He was rarely there late going over film and talking with his coaches. And, he did not take playing QB in this league seriously.

In short, like so many other NFL players with Potential, he wasted the hell out of his talent. And he did it to my team. I took it very personally at the time. I had some great arguments with popps and others over his lack of production in big games. It was one reason I really got interested in doing what I do today.

No one welcomed him more loudly than me, and no one was his worst critic at the end when he showed such utter disdain for the team in my eyes. I wish him the best though, he is a pretty solid dude off the field. I just wish we all could have seen the fruits of his labor if he ever gave it his all instead of his just good enough.

Beantown Bronco
11-27-2012, 10:30 AM
he was never a winner.

He was 39-15 as a starter for the Broncos. You and I must define "winner" very differently.

Now Brodie Croyle. HE was never a winner.

Taco John
11-27-2012, 10:33 AM
He was 39-15 as a starter for the Broncos. You and I must define "winner" very differently.

Now Brodie Croyle. HE was never a winner.


What was his record in the post season for the Broncos?

Beantown Bronco
11-27-2012, 10:41 AM
What was his record in the post season for the Broncos?

Different argument. He very specifically said "he was NEVER a winner".

Had he said "his playoff record sucked", then I would've agreed.

Mediator12
11-27-2012, 10:52 AM
He was 39-15 as a starter for the Broncos. You and I must define "winner" very differently.

Now Brodie Croyle. HE was never a winner.

I totally define it different than you ;D

Winners win big games, winners win championships. Winners win games they should lose based on the stats. In football, winners make the team better and are not caretakers. They make everyone around them better and more self confident that they will win because of that player.

That was Never Jake Plummer in DEN. Instead, we won a lot of games despite him. We lost a lot of games we should have won, because he failed to play well under pressure. He never played well in any playoff game for DEN. Not one. In fact, he severely underperformed.

If he ever mastered the mental part of football, I truly believe he was Hall of Fame bound. However, he never learned how to perform under pressure in DEN. He never did the little things to get better. Mike Never trusted him to read defenses presnap and make audibles. The few times he did, he blew it huge in the red zone and turned the ball over. That is the difference in being mentally prepared like Peyton Manning and not like Plummer.

That team performed well above its natural talent level, but not because their QB was driving it. Jake, like Ben Roethlisberger, gets a good reputation because he had a stellar team effort around him that looks better. Put Ben or Jake on those marginal teams and their Winning % would be around mediocre at best. They are not the drivers of their fate. Look how close those PIT losses are without Ben. The team keeps them in it all game long without him.

Beantown Bronco
11-27-2012, 10:58 AM
In football, winners make the team better and are not caretakers. They make everyone around them better and more self confident that they will win because of that player.

That was Never Jake Plummer in DEN.

Well, one could argue he actually did all those things. In every measurable way, we were a better performing team with him than we were with the guys before (Griese) and after him (Cutler). Hell, we never even made it to the playoffs with either of those guys. At least we made it there and won one with him.

BroncoBeavis
11-27-2012, 10:58 AM
What was his record in the post season for the Broncos?

Jake was 2-4 in his first 4 postseasons.

Identical to some other guy who shall remain nameless. :)

broncosteven
11-27-2012, 11:41 AM
Jake Plummer. Sheesh.

I never had more expectations for a guy than I did Plummer in DEN. Plummer did have all the tools of Joe Montana and he was a lot more mobile. The thing against Jake was he refused to take it seriously. He was extremely talented, but he did not work at it. I truly thought if he got a chance to work with Shanahan to see how good he could be and see how hard the best worked at their craft not only would he get better, he would become better than Steve Young at his peak with SF and approaching that level of play Montana was able to get under Walsh. I was extremely happy he came to DEN.

Then it happened. He just did enough to get by. With no real QB behind him on the roster, he coasted. He gave his all on the field, and he is a natural competitor. However, he was never a winner. He neglected the one thing that makes the difference at that level and that is mental preparation and physical repetitions. While the current DEN QB ate, lived, and breathed Football, Jake was out playing the part. He was active in all kinds of things, but getting better as a player every day. He rarely stayed and threw after practice with the WR's and TE's. He was rarely there late going over film and talking with his coaches. And, he did not take playing QB in this league seriously.

In short, like so many other NFL players with Potential, he wasted the hell out of his talent. And he did it to my team. I took it very personally at the time. I had some great arguments with popps and others over his lack of production in big games. It was one reason I really got interested in doing what I do today.

No one welcomed him more loudly than me, and no one was his worst critic at the end when he showed such utter disdain for the team in my eyes. I wish him the best though, he is a pretty solid dude off the field. I just wish we all could have seen the fruits of his labor if he ever gave it his all instead of his just good enough.

/end thread. REP

broncosteven
11-27-2012, 11:48 AM
What was his record in the post season for the Broncos?

Just list the scores of his play off losses, that should tell the story.

Then if people still think he got screwed by Shanny they need to read P.231-232 of "A Few Seconds of Panic"

BroncoBeavis
11-27-2012, 12:02 PM
Just list the scores of his play off losses, that should tell the story.

Then if people still think he got screwed by Shanny they need to read P.231-232 of "A Few Seconds of Panic"

Please tell me which NFL QB was going to knock out PFM throwing 5 TDs with an 85% completion rate while we kept lining up The Rock 1 on 1 v Reggie Wayne.

orinjkrush
11-27-2012, 04:48 PM
I suspect you aphave selective memory.

While Jake did not have a stellar game. Having an OL that could not block for the running game, which had all year opened up the passing game with play fakes.

I remember seeing the Blitzers in the backfield sometimes before Jake had a chance to get there himself.

I remember Ben setting a record during the game for 3rd down conversions.

I remember PIT Having almost a 14 minute TOP advantage.

I remember PIT coaches completely out coaching the mastermind.

I remember Jake almost being the rushing leader that day and getting sacked and harassed all day.

I remember about the only player on O that was still trying to win the game late in the game was Jake.

Dick Leabuea kicked Mikey's ass that day and mikey had no adjustments to counter with.


But hey for you cutlet fans I'm sure you forgot some of those things.

just about how i remember it too.

Blart
11-28-2012, 02:19 AM
I LOVE YOU JAKE

Pick Six
11-28-2012, 09:08 AM
10 comebacks, as a Bronco...just as many, in Arizona...


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=PlumJa00

Kaylore
11-28-2012, 09:10 AM
It's been awhile since we had a Plummer thread go more than three pages.

Pick Six
11-28-2012, 09:11 AM
It's been awhile since we had a Plummer thread go more than three pages.

It kind of makes a person misty-eyed for OM nostalgia...8')

Mediator12
11-28-2012, 09:19 AM
10 comebacks, as a Bronco...just as many, in Arizona...


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=PlumJa00

Thank you for that link and look at why they needed comebacks. Jeez, Plummer was Tebow before Tebow was Tebow!

In only one of those games did the other team score 20 points either! Jake, JAKE!

BroncoBeavis
11-28-2012, 09:29 AM
Thank you for that link and look at why they needed comebacks. Jeez, Plummer was Tebow before Tebow was Tebow!

In only one of those games did the other team score 20 points either! Jake, JAKE!

I think that was also the dig on the original Broncos comeback kid back in the late 80's/early 90's wasn't it?

"If only he played that way all 4 quarters" they used to say.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-28-2012, 09:29 AM
What was his record in the post season for the Broncos?

Well, two of the years he ran into the buzzsaw that was Peyton. I'm not sure it mattered who was QB'ing for us those games. If you want to hold the Pitt game against him, fine, but im not sure that's enough to say he didnt win.

baja
11-28-2012, 09:32 AM
Well, two of the years he ran into the buzzsaw that was Peyton. I'm not sure it mattered who was QB'ing for us those games. If you want to hold the Pitt game against him, fine, but im not sure that's enough to say he didnt win.

We couldn't get off the field on third down in that Pittsburg game either.

It was a team loss.

BroncoBeavis
11-28-2012, 09:33 AM
Well, two of the years he ran into the buzzsaw that was Peyton. I'm not sure it mattered who was QB'ing for us those games. If you want to hold the Pitt game against him, fine, but im not sure that's enough to say he didnt win.

This. All of Plummer's reputation since has really hinged on that one poor performance. But he's one of the only QBs I can remember that went from a disappointing performance in an AFC Championship one season to the bench the next.

Most QBs get more than one shot to write that narrative.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-28-2012, 09:38 AM
This. All of Plummer's reputation since has really hinged on that one poor performance. But he's one of the only QBs I can remember that went from a disappointing performance in an AFC Championship one season to the bench the next.

Most QBs get more than one shot to write that narrative.

Didn't trent dilfer go from super bowl champ to bench or cut? Or am i remembering that incorrectly?

Mediator12
11-28-2012, 09:39 AM
Well, two of the years he ran into the buzzsaw that was Peyton. I'm not sure it mattered who was QB'ing for us those games. If you want to hold the Pitt game against him, fine, but im not sure that's enough to say he didnt win.

Do not forget the NE peformance at home. He sucked pretty bad that day too. If the Defense and ST's did not acrue 5 TO's against NE we do not even get the lone win he did register in the playoffs. Also, INDY's defense was nothing special in those game either. And Jake threw a pick six to open the scoring for INDY that first year as well.

Rohirrim
11-28-2012, 09:43 AM
It's been awhile since we had a Plummer thread go more than three pages.

I miss the bootlegs. :pity:

BroncoBeavis
11-28-2012, 09:43 AM
Didn't trent dilfer go from super bowl champ to bench or cut? Or am i remembering that incorrectly?

Yeah, I think you're right. But these situations are the exception. And I wouldn't put Jake in the same cellar as Dilhole.

TheReverend
11-28-2012, 09:44 AM
Thank you for that link and look at why they needed comebacks. Jeez, Plummer was Tebow before Tebow was Tebow!

In only one of those games did the other team score 20 points either! Jake, JAKE!

Haha that is SO true.

BroncoBeavis
11-28-2012, 09:47 AM
Do not forget the NE peformance at home. He sucked pretty bad that day too. If the Defense and ST's did not acrue 5 TO's against NE we do not even get the lone win he did register in the playoffs. Also, INDY's defense was nothing special in those game either. And Jake threw a pick six to open the scoring for INDY that first year as well.

He didn't really suck. He did enough. A lot of short fields, so not tons of yards. But he didn't **** the bed or anything. Remember, that was back in the day when the Pats still played defense. They usually made PFM look pretty inept back in those days.

Taco John
11-28-2012, 10:42 AM
10 comebacks, as a Bronco...just as many, in Arizona...


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/comeback.cgi?player=PlumJa00

Twice as many in Arizona. And the comebacks he registered with us are primarily "one score" comebacks, or "keep pace" comebacks. When I think of a comeback, I think of being down by two scores and managing to "come back" and win.

Here's an example:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200409120den.htm

Being down 23-24 in the third quarter, and then scoring in the 4th to pull ahead and win isn't really what I consider a comeback. That's what most of these "comebacks" are.

More to the point, we couldn't get down two scores with Plummer and expect him to pull the game out. Pressure was too high in that situation.

Just look at his splits:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/1177/jake-plummer

On first and second down, he throws close to 60%. On third downs, he doesn't even break 50%. When he's down by one score his QB rating is 111.0. When he's down by two or more, his QB rating was 44.2 - a huge drop off in performance.

I liked Plummer. We came from the same home state. I got a chance to be on the field with him in High School (he killed us - he was a legend in Southern Idaho when he was playing). But he was never able to handle pressure at the pro level - certainly not in the aquarium we call being a Denver Broncos starting QB. He was the right medicine at the time, but he wasn't the guy who was ever going to be able to win a Superbowl.

24champ
11-28-2012, 11:02 AM
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/59/202042979_92d5bba819.jpg

Jake was the man, all we did was win in those days. Thought we made the switch too soon to Jay and it all went to hell in a handbasket.

BroncoBeavis
11-28-2012, 11:05 AM
Just look at his splits:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/1177/jake-plummer

On first and second down, he throws close to 60%. On third downs, he doesn't even break 50%. When he's down by one score his QB rating is 111.0. When he's down by two or more, his QB rating was 44.2 - a huge drop off in performance.

Some circular logic in this. QB's often aren't playing well while they're getting their asses kicked. It's chicken and egg.

Look at Peyton this year.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/1428/peyton-manning

His worst numbers by far are when down by multiple scores. Does that mean he played worse when "under the pressure" then he would have otherwise? Or does it mean that we get down multiple scores to teams who do a good job containing Peyton Manning?

Rohirrim
11-28-2012, 12:06 PM
Not to mention, nobody in the NFL ever had as good a porn 'stache as Jake.

He looked like somebody right out of Boogie Nights.

Steve Sewell
11-28-2012, 01:14 PM
I'm sure this has already been said, but looking back on Jake's time in Denver, the consensus amongst Bronco fans and around the league was that the Broncos usually won in spite of him because of a great running game and defense. Personally I really liked Jake and his time in Denver was really successful. The only times the Broncos got beat was when they played against marquee QB's like Manning.

broncocalijohn
11-28-2012, 01:24 PM
Twice as many in Arizona. And the comebacks he registered with us are primarily "one score" comebacks, or "keep pace" comebacks. When I think of a comeback, I think of being down by two scores and managing to "come back" and win.

Here's an example:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200409120den.htm

Being down 23-24 in the third quarter, and then scoring in the 4th to pull ahead and win isn't really what I consider a comeback. That's what most of these "comebacks" are.

More to the point, we couldn't get down two scores with Plummer and expect him to pull the game out. Pressure was too high in that situation.

Just look at his splits:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/1177/jake-plummer

On first and second down, he throws close to 60%. On third downs, he doesn't even break 50%. When he's down by one score his QB rating is 111.0. When he's down by two or more, his QB rating was 44.2 - a huge drop off in performance.



I would love to see more of just what you remember for what is considered a comeback. Many QBs have the same situation considering a comeback. Also, you give us the splits for Plummer on downs situations but what is it with some of his peers? If it is 3rd and 10, good chance we are passing and the defense is playing in a nickel to thwart it. Now on 1st and 10, defenses don't quite know for certain what is coming at them. Play action works well in these situations and QBs should be having a better rating in these situations. I am just smelling more of a hater than actual facts and figures to back this up.

Taco John
11-28-2012, 04:03 PM
I would love to see more of just what you remember for what is considered a comeback. Many QBs have the same situation considering a comeback. Also, you give us the splits for Plummer on downs situations but what is it with some of his peers? If it is 3rd and 10, good chance we are passing and the defense is playing in a nickel to thwart it. Now on 1st and 10, defenses don't quite know for certain what is coming at them. Play action works well in these situations and QBs should be having a better rating in these situations. I am just smelling more of a hater than actual facts and figures to back this up.


That's fine with me. I've been through this argument a billion times, and a billion times there is always someone who is willing to say that all of Plummer's problems in dealing with pressure were on everyone else, explain why his multitude of turnovers in playoff games weren't his fault, and praise the guy for not being Brian Griese. Whatever you want to say about circumstantial evidence, Jake Plummer was bad under pressure. The evidence was there for anyone who wanted to see it in the books, but manifested itself in with wide open once he had a young buck behind him and he folded his tent and quit the league.