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Mogulseeker
11-25-2012, 01:42 PM
He knows this is his last chance, and he's rising to the occasion...

Armchair Bronco
11-25-2012, 01:45 PM
He looked good. North and south. And two hands on the ball at all times.

Mission accomplished I'd say.

Goobzilla
11-25-2012, 01:47 PM
Good enough. A couple tackles by the Turf Monster but a positive performance overall.

Ray Finkle
11-25-2012, 01:48 PM
Ran well and ran hard.

Houshyamama
11-25-2012, 01:51 PM
Impressive I'd say, I'm happy for him.

errand
11-25-2012, 01:52 PM
He knows this is his last chance, and he's rising to the occasion...

Actually he ran this hard last season before he blew his knee out....and was running this hard earlier, but he did fumble that one time this year, and that is an unforgivable sin to some on here.

Vine
11-25-2012, 01:53 PM
I have been one of his biggest critics. He played well today, in fact, I might even say, without his performance today, Denver may not have won.

However, I will say this... I still feel it is inevitable that the Know-Show that most of us know too well will eventually come back.

DenverBound
11-25-2012, 01:54 PM
I loved his performance today but God does he make it look bad. He is the clumsiest back I have ever watched run. It's embarrassing. He trips over his own feet, misses obvious holes and shows no confidence. The only thing he's confident about are his abilities to get up off the ground. He pops up like boss.

If he showed half the confidence running the ball that he shows getting up from tripping over his own feet we'd be alright.

Vine
11-25-2012, 01:56 PM
Actually he ran this hard last season before he blew his knee out....and was running this hard earlier, but he did fumble that one time this year, and that is an unforgivable sin to some on here.

Fumbling in itself is not unforgivable, but some of his fumbles came at the most inopportune times that ended up costing Denver games.

Beantown Bronco
11-25-2012, 01:57 PM
I'm very happy for him.

Next week will be a tough test for sure. TB has the #1 ranked run defense in the league. If he can even somewhat replicate today's numbers, we'll do just fine. We need more consistent blocking though. We were largely dominated up front today.

He will have his chances the rest of the way though. Nobody we face after TB has an even somewhat decent run defense.

Agamemnon
11-25-2012, 02:02 PM
Good god, it almost seems like it causes some of you pain to say anything nice about the guy. Hilarious!

errand
11-25-2012, 02:03 PM
I have been one of his biggest critics. He played well today, in fact, I might even say, without his performance today, Denver may not have won.

However, I will say this... I still feel it is inevitable that the Know-Show that most of us know too well will eventually come back.

Evidently you didn't like the big **** sandwich Knowshon made you eat today, huh?

errand
11-25-2012, 02:04 PM
Fumbling in itself is not unforgivable, but some of his fumbles came at the most inopportune times that ended up costing Denver games.

Really? which one? And pray tell when is there ever an opportune time to fumble the ball?

If you think the fumble vs. Falcons cost us that game, you're not only stupid, you're ****ing stupid as all get out......

errand
11-25-2012, 02:09 PM
I loved his performance today but God does he make it look bad. He is the clumsiest back I have ever watched run. It's embarrassing. He trips over his own feet, misses obvious holes and shows no confidence. The only thing he's confident about are his abilities to get up off the ground. He pops up like boss.

If he showed half the confidence running the ball that he shows getting up from tripping over his own feet we'd be alright.

Yeah because he's the only RB that's tripped himself up running the ball....

the hatred for this guy is just mind blowing.....

Beantown Bronco
11-25-2012, 02:11 PM
Really? which one? And pray tell when is there ever an opportune time to fumble the ball?

If you think the fumble vs. Falcons cost us that game, you're not only stupid, you're ****ing stupid as all get out......

This.

I've debunked this myth before. He has 8 career lost fumbles and 5 of them either came in wins or in games that we lost by 20 or more points. Another was that Falcons game. Another came early in the first half of a close game.

DenverBound
11-25-2012, 02:12 PM
I can't count how many times I screamed out "just hit the ****ing hole!!!" I appreciated his patience but damn man get your legs moving at least...

go_broncos
11-25-2012, 02:24 PM
it's just one game..

2KBack
11-25-2012, 02:28 PM
I can't count how many times I screamed out "just hit the ****ing hole!!!" I appreciated his patience but damn man get your legs moving at least...

Patience to allow the holes to develop was one of Moreno's weaknesses. I was incredibly excited to see him run with patience like that. His biggest gains came from allowing the play to develop.

DenverBound
11-25-2012, 02:32 PM
Patience to allow the holes to develop was one of Moreno's weaknesses. I was incredibly excited to see him run with patience like that. His biggest gains came from allowing the play to develop.

No, I agree completely. It's just that when he finally sees the hole open up he still is timid to run through it. Hit it and hit it hard man.

Vine
11-25-2012, 02:36 PM
Evidently you didn't like the big **** sandwich Knowshon made you eat today, huh?

I gave him props for his game today. What else would you expect me to do?

Agamemnon
11-25-2012, 02:38 PM
Why do I get the feeling a lot of you are sitting at home crossing your fingers and hoping the guy fails massively? You do get that Moreno finally putting it together and staying healthy from here on out will help our playoff hopes right?

Popps
11-25-2012, 02:39 PM
Again. He's a talented back. His health has been his biggest downfall. He's a polarized player because of who drafted him. If he was a 4th round Fox selection... we'd all be praising him as one of the better back-ups in the league.

The issue will be his health. Hopefully he can finally stay on the field.

Vine
11-25-2012, 02:39 PM
Really? which one? And pray tell when is there ever an opportune time to fumble the ball?

If you think the fumble vs. Falcons cost us that game, you're not only stupid, you're ****ing stupid as all get out......

So you are going to try to claim that some fumbles don't have as big an effect on games as other fumbles? Last year, he several fumbles that hurt us big time. You never want to see one of your own players fumble, but if you fumble when you are up by 3 touchdowns, that is a lot less costly than some of the other times he has fumbled.

Vine
11-25-2012, 02:41 PM
Why do I get the feeling a lot of you are sitting at home crossing your fingers and hoping the guy fails massively? You do get that Moreno finally putting it together and staying healthy from here on out will help our playoff hopes right?

I don't know if you are thinking of me, but I said it before, if he sees the field, I root for him. It is in the Broncos best interests for him to perform well when he does play. Only fake fans would not agree with that. I am happy for him, and was glad that he hit those holes and broke tackles. He played very well.

BigPlayShay
11-25-2012, 02:42 PM
Only lost his shoe once from what I could see. Seriously though, he looked good, even after contact.

spdirty
11-25-2012, 02:42 PM
Hope he didn't pull a hammy today. Otherwise it was a good game. I was happy with his effort. 2 hands on the ball at all times. I can handle the goofiness, but ball security is so important. Had he fumbled today it would have been unforgivable, and I'm happy he didn't.

Vine
11-25-2012, 02:42 PM
Again. He's a talented back. His health has been his biggest downfall. He's a polarized player because of who drafted him. If he was a 4th round Fox selection... we'd all be praising him as one of the better back-ups in the league.

The issue will be his health. Hopefully he can finally stay on the field.

This. Good post.

2KBack
11-25-2012, 02:42 PM
So you are going to try to claim that some fumbles don't have as big an effect on games as other fumbles? Last year, he several fumbles that hurt us big time. You never want to see one of your own players fumble, but if you fumble when you are up by 3 touchdowns, that is a lot less costly than some of the other times he has fumbled.

Moreno had 1 fumble last year

Vine
11-25-2012, 02:44 PM
Moreno had 1 fumble last year

Sometimes perception is bigger than reality. :giggle:

spdirty
11-25-2012, 02:44 PM
Why do I get the feeling a lot of you are sitting at home crossing your fingers and hoping the guy fails massively? You do get that Moreno finally putting it together and staying healthy from here on out will help our playoff hopes right?

I HOPE he stays healthy and plays well. It would be nice if he could show enough to be the guy next year as I don't trust McGahee and Knowshon only makes 1.3 million.

DENVERDUI55
11-25-2012, 02:45 PM
I can't count how many times I screamed out "just hit the ****ing hole!!!" I appreciated his patience but damn man get your legs moving at least...

Agreed. He gets one or two runs where his dancing allowed play to developed then he true that on every play. He ran good today but his funniest move is the stop and stiff arm.

Agamemnon
11-25-2012, 02:45 PM
I don't know if you are thinking of me, but I said it before, if he sees the field, I root for him. It is in the Broncos best interests for him to perform well when he does play. Only fake fans would not agree with that. I am happy for him, and was glad that he hit those holes and broke tackles. He played very well.

I'm not referencing you specifically, no. My post was directed at a lot of people on the OM, some of whom haven't even posted in this particular thread. I'm no Moreno fan, but I've never understood the hate for the guy.

DENVERDUI55
11-25-2012, 02:50 PM
Again. He's a talented back. His health has been his biggest downfall. He's a polarized player because of who drafted him. If he was a 4th round Fox selection... we'd all be praising him as one of the better back-ups in the league.

The issue will be his health. Hopefully he can finally stay on the field.

Beantown needs proof that he gets hurt.

spdirty
11-25-2012, 02:51 PM
Again. He's a talented back. His health has been his biggest downfall. He's a polarized player because of who drafted him. If he was a 4th round Fox selection... we'd all be praising him as one of the better back-ups in the league.

The issue will be his health. Hopefully he can finally stay on the field.

Yeah well its not only who drafted him but where he was drafted and who he was drafted ahead of. When you are drafted that high you are expected to be basically Adrian Peterson 2.0. He isn't. So excuse some of us when we get a little bit pissed off if seeing him reminds us of the wasted draft picks we had.

Not only that but he really hasn't shown himself worthy of being a starting running back in this league.

That said I'm glad he had that kind of effort today and I hope that kind of effort continues and continues injury free.

spdirty
11-25-2012, 02:53 PM
I'm no Moreno fan, but I've never understood the hate for the guy.

Why? Why wouldn't you understand? Do I need to bring out the laundry list of reasons why people don't like him?

Lestat
11-25-2012, 02:58 PM
he looked like he was ready to go. maybe we should have played him more earlier.
wonder if the team thought he wasn't fully back or what.
definitely didn't look like a 4th string RB. which further pisses me off about Lance Ball getting carries over him.

Agamemnon
11-25-2012, 03:00 PM
Why? Why wouldn't you understand? Do I need to bring out the laundry list of reasons why people don't like him?

I understand why a person doesn't like him or trust him to get the job done. I understand that he's underachieved for where he was drafted. None of that justifies the hate for him that I see on these boards.

gyldenlove
11-25-2012, 03:01 PM
I loved how he looked out of the backfield, he has always been a very talented receiving back, 4 targets, 4 catches and some key first downs.

Crushaholic
11-25-2012, 03:04 PM
That 4.2 average was awesome....LOL.

USMCBladerunner
11-25-2012, 03:04 PM
I loved his performance today but God does he make it look bad. He is the clumsiest back I have ever watched run. It's embarrassing. He trips over his own feet, misses obvious holes and shows no confidence. The only thing he's confident about are his abilities to get up off the ground. He pops up like boss.

If he showed half the confidence running the ball that he shows getting up from tripping over his own feet we'd be alright.

Perfect summation of Knowshon...my sentiments exactly!^5

DENVERDUI55
11-25-2012, 03:08 PM
I'm very happy for him.

Next week will be a tough test for sure. TB has the #1 ranked run defense in the league. If he can even somewhat replicate today's numbers, we'll do just fine. We need more consistent blocking though. We were largely dominated up front today.

He will have his chances the rest of the way though. Nobody we face after TB has an even somewhat decent run defense.

You couldn't be farther off Tampa has an awful run D and I would dare say bottom 5. I know for a fact SF has the number 1 and Chicago isn't far off.

swaiy
11-25-2012, 03:17 PM
You couldn't be farther off Tampa has an awful run D and I would dare say bottom 5. I know for a fact SF has the number 1 and Chicago isn't far off.

Chicago and 9ers hqve #1 and #2 overall. If youre just talking Run D, Tampa is pretty stout but their secondary sucks.

Cito Pelon
11-25-2012, 03:18 PM
he looked like he was ready to go. maybe we should have played him more earlier.
wonder if the team thought he wasn't fully back or what.
definitely didn't look like a 4th string RB. which further pisses me off about Lance Ball getting carries over him.

That's the thing, Moreno was coming off the ACL, was wearing a knee brace all through the preseason, but they tried to work him into the lineup. Now he's back to 100% and hopefully they can get some miles out of him, sure need it for the stretch run.

HILife
11-25-2012, 03:18 PM
I can't count how many times I screamed out "just hit the ****ing hole!!!" I appreciated his patience but damn man get your legs moving at least...

http://www.lol24-7.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/004.-At-the-Beach1.jpg

http://www.dudelol.com/img/thats-what-she-said6218.jpeg

razorwire77
11-25-2012, 03:20 PM
I thought Moreno ran hard today against a surprisingly motivated Chef defense. He's earned the right to start next week, but I don't see the big-time talent whose only limitations are that he is hampered by injuries narrative that some of you guys are spinning.

KM doesn't really have the 2nd gear and explosiveness that an elite back his size should have. He doesn't have the great feet that you want in an every down back. Willis is 30 pounds heaver, significantly older and running with a no cartilage knee and he is still more sudden and quick in space.

KM showed decent vision today, which is encouraging. He's better than Ball, and he finished the game strong, but I don't think this was a coming out party or anything. We're really going to struggle running the ball consistently against decent teams with KM, Ball, or Hillman.

Mogulseeker
11-25-2012, 03:20 PM
That 4.2 average was awesome....LOL.

He was averaging 5.5ypc until those last three carries for negative yardage with KC stacking the line.

Lestat
11-25-2012, 03:22 PM
That's the thing, Moreno was coming off the ACL, was wearing a knee brace all through the preseason, but they tried to work him into the lineup. Now he's back to 100% and hopefully they can get some miles out of him, sure need it for the stretch run.

but still, Lance Ball! i know Moreno wasn't 100% but Balls sucks.

Agamemnon
11-25-2012, 03:24 PM
I thought Moreno ran hard today against a surprisingly motivated Chef defense. He's earned the right to start next week, but I don't see the big-time talent whose only limitations are that he is hampered by injuries narrative that some of you guys are spinning.

KM doesn't really have the 2nd gear and explosiveness that an elite back his size should have. He doesn't have the great feet that you want in an every down back. Willis is 30 pounds heaver, significantly older and running with a no cartilage knee and he is still more sudden and quick in space.

KM showed decent vision today, which is encouraging. He's better than Ball, and he finished the game strong, but I don't think this was a coming out party or anything. We're really going to struggle running the ball consistently against decent teams with KM, Ball, or Hillman.

Pretty good take. Moreno is almost certainly never going to live up to 1st round status. I think that ship has sailed. But he's still better than Hillman and Ball, so I'm glad we have him on the roster right now. This offense doesn't really need elite RB play, just competent RB play.

orinjkrush
11-25-2012, 03:25 PM
I'd grade Knowsho a B+ for the game (compared to his usual C-). Am really glad for him and for us 'cause we NEED him to play at this level through the playoffs. Go Knowsho!

I think the Oline was a B- today, Peyton was feeling lotsa pressure.
I'd give Peyton an A for his dealing with the pressure, but a brain fart or two.
I think the WRs were B today, coupla drops but made some big catches (awesome TD).

I think the DL was a C today, not the pressure I expected.
I think the LBs were a C+...lotsa runs past Doom and Von.
And the DBs were a solid A, great coverage and good run support.
ST was a C+, with Prater's misses but good PR performance (thank goodness on Leonard)

24champ
11-25-2012, 03:34 PM
He was averaging 5.5ypc until those last three carries for negative yardage with KC stacking the line.

Yeah, and his average was higher than that of Willis.

Not to mention he caught the bell well today from Peyton. Some people are going to hate on Moreno no matter what.

DENVERDUI55
11-25-2012, 03:39 PM
Chicago and 9ers hqve #1 and #2 overall. If youre just talking Run D, Tampa is pretty stout but their secondary sucks.

Yeah I said nothing about pass beantown said Tampa has number 1 run D and its actually number 32.

Mogulseeker
11-25-2012, 03:41 PM
I'd grade Knowsho a B+ for the game (compared to his usual C-). Am really glad for him and for us 'cause we NEED him to play at this level through the playoffs. Go Knowsho!

I think the Oline was a B- today, Peyton was feeling lotsa pressure.
I'd give Peyton an A for his dealing with the pressure, but a brain fart or two.
I think the WRs were B today, coupla drops but made some big catches (awesome TD).

I think the DL was a C today, not the pressure I expected.
I think the LBs were a C+...lotsa runs past Doom and Von.
And the DBs were a solid A, great coverage and good run support.
ST was a C+, with Prater's misses but good PR performance (thank goodness on Leonard)

The Leonhard play looked an awful lot like fair catch interference to me. The Chief's gunner's foot was like six inches from Leonhard before he even bobbled the ball.

broncosteven
11-25-2012, 03:42 PM
He did seem to do less dancing in the backfield today and he made the extra effort to cover the ball.

I would like to think he got the message from Fox that this was his last shot, lets see how he does the next couple weeks.

He will trip up and lose out on a couple big gainers each week. I just hope the cut back is there when he runs up Franklin's back next week.

I want him to do well, his best games are against kFc, lets see what he does vs real competition, we need him to contribute.

Vine
11-25-2012, 03:43 PM
The Leonhard play looked an awful lot like fair catch interference to me. The Chief's gunner's foot was like six inches from Leonhard before he even bobbled the ball.

I thought the Chief gunner slapped Leohnard's arm away preventing him from making a clean catch.

Jetmeck
11-25-2012, 03:51 PM
O-line opening no holes....considering that he did excellent today///////////

This isn't the truck size holes TD used to ramble through or cut back on.

I am happy for 27 who outperformed JC when it counted today.

Any back behind our line has his work cut out for him.

Mogulseeker
11-25-2012, 03:58 PM
He did seem to do less dancing in the backfield today and he made the extra effort to cover the ball.

I would like to think he got the message from Fox that this was his last shot, lets see how he does the next couple weeks.

He will trip up and lose out on a couple big gainers each week. I just hope the cut back is there when he runs up Franklin's back next week.

I want him to do well, his best games are against kFc, lets see what he does vs real competition, we need him to contribute.

I thought it was hilarious that Fox basically said that was Knowshon's last shot. Coaches usually play it a lot closer to the vest.

CEH
11-25-2012, 03:59 PM
O-line opening no holes....considering that he did excellent today///////////

This isn't the truck size holes TD used to ramble through or cut back on.

I am happy for 27 who outperformed JC when it counted today.

Any back behind our line has his work cut out for him.

Charles was and is better running back today or any day. I would gladly trade JC for KM today and not looked back

pricejj
11-25-2012, 04:01 PM
I HOPE he stays healthy and plays well. It would be nice if he could show enough to be the guy next year as I don't trust McGahee and Knowshon only makes 1.3 million.

Pretty sure Knowshon makes $3.5M in 2013.

errand
11-25-2012, 04:09 PM
Moreno had 1 fumble last year

OOOPs! LOL

Hamrob
11-25-2012, 04:11 PM
Chris Kuper had no business being on the field today. I think that really messed our Oline play up.

errand
11-25-2012, 04:12 PM
Sometimes perception is bigger than reality. :giggle:


Well, the perception is that you just hate the guy

errand
11-25-2012, 04:16 PM
Yeah well its not only who drafted him but where he was drafted and who he was drafted ahead of. When you are drafted that high you are expected to be basically Adrian Peterson 2.0. He isn't. So excuse some of us when we get a little bit pissed off if seeing him reminds us of the wasted draft picks we had.

Not only that but he really hasn't shown himself worthy of being a starting running back in this league.

That said I'm glad he had that kind of effort today and I hope that kind of effort continues and continues injury free.

OK...so he's not Adrian Peterson 2.0.....how is that his fault some coach thought he would be? I wouldn't have issues with Moreno, he was what he was...a decent RB that can help you win some games....I would have issues that McD thought he was better than he turned out to be.

HAT
11-25-2012, 04:32 PM
I would have issues that McD thought he was better than he turned out to be.

It wasn't just McD....KM was a consensus mid-first rounder.

People hate KM AFTER the fact because of McD (like Popps already said)....But plenty of today's haters were for the pick back then.

"F yeah! Nice to finally invest a top pick in an RB instead of trying to plug and play with 4th rounders like Shanny did"

Typical OM revisionist history.

TonyR
11-25-2012, 04:38 PM
You couldn't be farther off Tampa has an awful run D and I would dare say bottom 5. I know for a fact SF has the number 1 and Chicago isn't far off.

Tampa is #1 in the league in fewest rushing yards allowed per game. San Diego is #2. Pittsburgh is #3. Denver is #4. San Fran is #5. (all excluding today's games)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/position/defense

broncosteven
11-25-2012, 04:39 PM
Chris Kuper had no business being on the field today. I think that really messed our Oline play up.

I thought he gutted it out and played as well as he could despite coming back from injury.

Romeo does have a sound system against Manning. Bring heavy pressure, blitz often shortening his read time and try to take away the middle of the field playing man to man. The man coverage takes away a quick pass and if he gets good pressure Manning will be forced to throw it away.

Manning still had nearly 300 yards today and 2 TD's with only 1 (bad) INT.

There were some great holes and KM found most of them today.

The one thing that I saw today I don't remember ever seeing from KM before was PATIENCE. KM waited for the hole, did not get out in front of his blockers and ran to daylight when he saw a cutback lane. It is much easier to cut when your feet are not busy dancing trying to make dudes miss.

I want to see this consistently, if nothing else maybe he makes himself attractive trade bait this offseason rather than an outright cut. Hard to see them bring him back at 1.5 mill next year.

WolfpackGuy
11-25-2012, 04:46 PM
Solid game, but he still trips over his own feet too much.

2KBack
11-25-2012, 04:56 PM
Yeah I said nothing about pass beantown said Tampa has number 1 run D and its actually number 32.

Tampa does have the #1 Ranked rush defense....but #32 ranked Pass D.

DENVERDUI55
11-25-2012, 05:02 PM
Tampa is #1 in the league in fewest rushing yards allowed per game. San Diego is #2. Pittsburgh is #3. Denver is #4. San Fran is #5. (all excluding today's games)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/rushing/position/defense

Whoops must of been looking at the wrong chart. Moreno will have to bring his A game.

dsmoot
11-25-2012, 05:12 PM
I thought Moreno ran hard today against a surprisingly motivated Chef defense. He's earned the right to start next week, but I don't see the big-time talent whose only limitations are that he is hampered by injuries narrative that some of you guys are spinning.

KM doesn't really have the 2nd gear and explosiveness that an elite back his size should have. He doesn't have the great feet that you want in an every down back. Willis is 30 pounds heaver, significantly older and running with a no cartilage knee and he is still more sudden and quick in space.

KM showed decent vision today, which is encouraging. He's better than Ball, and he finished the game strong, but I don't think this was a coming out party or anything. We're really going to struggle running the ball consistently against decent teams with KM, Ball, or Hillman.

KM is what he is. We just have to deal with it. I liked what I saw of him today. Protecting the ball. Not as much dancing. Running with authority and hitting the hole hard when he made the decision (much more decisive). Kudos to him. We need him to be that alternate back with Hillman because I don't trust Hillman yet in tough running.

CEH
11-25-2012, 05:16 PM
Solid game, but he still trips over his own feet too much.

And to have his shoe come off when he needed to be in there on 2nd down is just another reason why he needs to prove he can be trusted

If this was a single occurance, OK but this happens every game he plays in

montrose
11-25-2012, 05:28 PM
Fumbling in itself is not unforgivable, but some of his fumbles came at the most inopportune times that ended up costing Denver games.

McGahee's had this issue too, it can frusturating.

winstoncup bronco
11-25-2012, 05:35 PM
Well, the perception is that you just hate the guy

I know. Don't you just hate it when someone rambles on constantly about someone they hate?

montrose
11-25-2012, 05:36 PM
he looked like he was ready to go. maybe we should have played him more earlier.
wonder if the team thought he wasn't fully back or what.
definitely didn't look like a 4th string RB. which further pisses me off about Lance Ball getting carries over him.

It's easy for us to call him 4th string and assume it means each of those other RBs is "better" than him as a RB in the coaches eyes. However, determining a final 46 for gameday is a tough choice for the coaches and so beyond the 22 starters - they have to account for special teams.

If this were college and everyone could dress, Knowshon would've been playing over Ball and even Hillman in some instances but with the roster limitations it was more valuable to have Ball active because he's on every special teams unit while Hillman's speed provided a nice chance of pace to McGahee. Another example is WR, where Bubba Caldwell is usually inactive - but the games he is active he plays over Matt Willis. Its just that Willis is a better special teams guy.

Hence, Knowshon goes from inactive to starter in one week.

winstoncup bronco
11-25-2012, 05:46 PM
Knowshon played better than I expected today, but I'm still not a believer in the guy.

Hopefully he can go on a magical end of season run, but I don't see it.

One thing is for sure, if he doesn't do anything from here on out to keep his spot on this team, he has no one to blame but himself. No more excuses.

winstoncup bronco
11-25-2012, 05:49 PM
It's easy for us to call him 4th string and assume it means each of those other RBs is "better" than him as a RB in the coaches eyes. However, determining a final 46 for gameday is a tough choice for the coaches and so beyond the 22 starters - they have to account for special teams.

If this were college and everyone could dress, Knowshon would've been playing over Ball and even Hillman in some instances but with the roster limitations it was more valuable to have Ball active because he's on every special teams unit while Hillman's speed provided a nice chance of pace to McGahee. Another example is WR, where Bubba Caldwell is usually inactive - but the games he is active he plays over Matt Willis. Its just that Willis is a better special teams guy.

Hence, Knowshon goes from inactive to starter in one week.

Maybe, but the best players make plays. He's not a specialty player, at least that's not what he's supposed to be. He should be a #1 back by now. The fact that he isn't is not due to a numbers crunch.

DBroncos4life
11-25-2012, 05:52 PM
That 4.2 average was awesome....LOL.

When is it bad????

DBroncos4life
11-25-2012, 05:54 PM
I know. Don't you just hate it when someone rambles on constantly about someone they hate?

Hilarious!

JakeZ01
11-25-2012, 05:56 PM
When is it bad????

When you are Knowshon Moreno and play for a team with spoiled a-hole fans.

montrose
11-25-2012, 06:15 PM
Maybe, but the best players make plays. He's not a specialty player, at least that's not what he's supposed to be. He should be a #1 back by now. The fact that he isn't is not due to a numbers crunch.

Of course, he's clearly not a #1 back and clearly a bust as the 12th pick in the draft, period. However, he isn't as bad as some make him out to be- he's an okay #2 NFL back.

barryr
11-25-2012, 06:17 PM
It was great to see Moreno come through like he did. I think he can be a bigger factor in the passing game.

Atwater His Ass
11-25-2012, 06:19 PM
Moreno was nothing more than average. It appeared he was playing harder, which is good, but call me when he's able to string a few consecutive games together before we start sucking each others dicks.

Jekyll15Hyde
11-25-2012, 06:41 PM
I was hoping/expecting to be pleasantly surprised. Got what I wished for!

Pseudofool
11-25-2012, 07:18 PM
Moreno was nothing more than average. It appeared he was playing harder, which is good, but call me when he's able to string a few consecutive games together before we start sucking each others *****.In our case, average is a boon.

An 'average' number 2 (number 4?) back is worth something; and the results are worth celebrating considering the low expectations.

Chris
11-25-2012, 07:33 PM
He did seem to do less dancing in the backfield today and he made the extra effort to cover the ball.

I would like to think he got the message from Fox that this was his last shot, lets see how he does the next couple weeks.

He will trip up and lose out on a couple big gainers each week. I just hope the cut back is there when he runs up Franklin's back next week.

I want him to do well, his best games are against kFc, lets see what he does vs real competition, we need him to contribute.

When he has to change direction he basically stops... it's like he widens his stance and loses all his speed then has to start up again. McGahee just keeps churning forwards.

TonyR
11-25-2012, 07:33 PM
We need him to be that alternate back with Hillman because I don't trust Hillman yet...

And apparently you're not alone:

Told off the record to 104.3 The Fan's Brandon Krisztal earlier in the week regarding Hillman: "Number 18 just doesn't trust this guy yet." The good news is that Hillman is just 21 years of age, so there's time. http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/gut-reaction-week-12-broncos-at-chiefs

broncosteven
11-25-2012, 07:44 PM
When he has to change direction he basically stops... it's like he widens his stance and loses all his speed then has to start up again. McGahee just keeps churning forwards.

Good observation,

DBroncos4life
11-25-2012, 07:51 PM
Who here thinks Ball should get cut for one of those guys we worked out?

baja
11-25-2012, 07:53 PM
And to have his shoe come off when he needed to be in there on 2nd down is just another reason why he needs to prove he can be trusted

If this was a single occurance, OK but this happens every game he plays in

He must have low arches. He should wear high tops.

baja
11-25-2012, 07:55 PM
Who here thinks Ball should get cut for one of those guys we worked out?

We still have an unused roster spot nobody needs to be cut.

DBroncos4life
11-25-2012, 08:04 PM
We still have an unused roster spot nobody needs to be cut.

So we can cut him and bring both RBs in :strong:

Bigdawg26
11-25-2012, 09:20 PM
I will admit I was one of those guys that doubted Moreno, but he had a good game today. I hope he keeps it up and stay healthy. I still think Hillman should get more carries.

SoCalBronco
11-25-2012, 09:27 PM
Moreno played well today, better than expected, which was encouraging. I'm salivating over the possibility of drafting The Duke in two years, though. Clinton Portis Part Deux...except better.

razorwire77
11-25-2012, 09:35 PM
Duke Johnson is sick, but this team needs a young bell-cow back next year.

DomCasual
11-25-2012, 09:42 PM
When I hear about someone quietly doing their best after being reprimanded/demoted, I automatically pull for them. I would love nothing more than for Knowshon to take over the RB position now, and hold onto it for the next four or five years. It isn't likely, but it would be great.

baja
11-25-2012, 09:47 PM
When I hear about someone quietly doing their best after being reprimanded/demoted, I automatically pull for them. I would love nothing more than for Knowshon to take over the RB position now, and hold onto it for the next four or five years. It isn't likely, but it would be great.

I wouldn't count him out.

DENVERDUI55
11-26-2012, 12:20 AM
When he has to change direction he basically stops... it's like he widens his stance and loses all his speed then has to start up again. McGahee just keeps churning forwards.

Don't forget he stops and stiff arms like a mofo!

TonyR
11-26-2012, 06:26 AM
Broncos will likely sign Jacob Hester this week according to Klis...

TheElusiveKyleOrton
11-26-2012, 06:31 AM
He must have low arches. He should wear high tops.

Or have his shoes taped to his ankles. I could have sworn that used to be the norm.

DENVERDUI55
11-26-2012, 07:39 AM
Or have his shoes taped to his ankles. I could have sworn that used to be the norm.

Not when you don't have speed to spare.

Denver Bronco56
11-26-2012, 08:10 AM
He really came out and helped the team, I think him spending time getting healthy was huge, and also his time on the scout team was good to get reps against the D and a wake up call that he needed to step his game up when you have Lance Ball starting ahead of you.

He needs to stay healthy but he looks like a different player(granted it was just one game, he was patient and looked for holes)

2KBack
11-26-2012, 08:18 AM
It was equal/better to the production we got out of McGahee in 7 out of the 10 games he started. Hopefully he can get a couple games where he gets rolling like Willis did.

DBroncos4life
11-26-2012, 09:03 AM
Broncos will likely sign Jacob Hester this week according to Klis...

I guess it make sense though in a way. Hester has three career games over 30 yards and all three came against us. His career high was last year against us with 47 yards.

He becomes our when we need a yard guy then right?

lonestar
11-26-2012, 09:28 AM
had afew really good second effort runs, got tripped up by teammates feet a couple of time not sure if that is a aberration or a sign of things to come..

Really set ou some of his blocking was real patience on several runs, even got a couple of yards when there did not seem to be a hole..

that said I still like bigger backs, if he wants to take a big reduction in salary next year I would not mind having him as a give the starter a rest after a few good runs..

Lestat
11-26-2012, 09:54 AM
i still want us to draft another RB next year. i like Hillman's potential but i want a bigger back to compliment him even if we keep Moreno(which i think we will due to his pass catching and blocking skills)Willis is getting long in the tooth and we can't afford to have him go down next year with the depth we currently have.

plus.. i want Lance Ball riding the inactive list! let him be a super cheerleader.

Cito Pelon
11-26-2012, 10:05 AM
When he has to change direction he basically stops... it's like he widens his stance and loses all his speed then has to start up again. McGahee just keeps churning forwards.

That's true. Maybe (hopefully) not anymore. He used to dick around in the open field past the LOS trying double jukes on DB's and slowing his downfield momentum instead of a quick stutter and slash downfield. Hence of course all the dancing criticism. Hopefully we don't see that anymore. He's left too many yds on the field, and I think that's what gets people irritated most of all.

He's actually been quite productive when healthy, but I think the wise move was to start McGahee over him because of the consistency and power Willis brought to the table. For this year, people forget Moreno was still wearing a knee brace in preseason, maybe wasn't quite ready, and they didn't need him all that much anyway.

They need him now, and he can produce adequately. They really don't have much behind him and are gonna sign Jacob Hester, so if Moreno goes down that's not so good.

2KBack
11-26-2012, 10:07 AM
i still want us to draft another RB next year. i like Hillman's potential but i want a bigger back to compliment him even if we keep Moreno(which i think we will due to his pass catching and blocking skills)Willis is getting long in the tooth and we can't afford to have him go down next year with the depth we currently have.

plus.. i want Lance Ball riding the inactive list! let him be a super cheerleader.

Cameron Marshall, totally hidden by the new offense in AZ....5-11 225, good quickness, great agility.

Cito Pelon
11-26-2012, 10:11 AM
Who here thinks Ball should get cut for one of those guys we worked out?

Hell no. Ball is a solid team contributor, both on ST's and as backup RB.

Lestat
11-26-2012, 10:25 AM
Cameron Marshall, totally hidden by the new offense in AZ....5-11 225, good quickness, great agility.

he's nice but i like Mike Gillislee(UF) & Christine Michael(A&M) better as big backs. i like Taylor of Stanford as well but i'm not sure he'll be able to break some longer runs.

2KBack
11-26-2012, 10:34 AM
he's nice but i like Mike Gillislee(UF) & Christine Michael(A&M) better as big backs. i like Taylor of Stanford as well but i'm not sure he'll be able to break some longer runs.

I like Michael, he is very similar to Marshall. I really like Taylor, but he is actually smaller than Moreno.

bronco militia
11-26-2012, 11:01 AM
Kuper was back...that was probably the biggest difference.

lonestar
11-26-2012, 11:07 AM
Kuper was back...that was probably the biggest difference.

actually kuper was not very effective in blocking the run game many times when Moreno tried to follow him and Franklin they were knocked back into the backfield and he scooted back to the left side .

Kupes is not remotely healed and back to his pre injury self.. that or KC is just that good..

Lestat
11-26-2012, 11:27 AM
I like Michael, he is very similar to Marshall. I really like Taylor, but he is actually smaller than Moreno.

Taylor is 215, Moreno plays between 200-210 most seasons both are 5-11.
he is not smaller by any stretch of the imagination.

bronco militia
11-26-2012, 11:28 AM
actually kuper was not very effective in blocking the run game many times when Moreno tried to follow him and Franklin they were knocked back into the backfield and he scooted back to the left side .

Kupes is not remotely healed and back to his pre injury self.. that or KC is just that good..

lmao!! I saw Moreno miss wide open holes Kuper and the OL were making....

2KBack
11-26-2012, 11:33 AM
Taylor is 215, Moreno plays between 200-210 most seasons both are 5-11.
he is not smaller by any stretch of the imagination.

Not that official listings are all that accurate but Moreno is typically listed 210-215, while I've seen Taylor listed anywhere from 205 to 215. So that being said, he doesn't really fit the bigger back role any better than Moreno.

lonestar
11-26-2012, 11:34 AM
!@#$%^&*!! I saw Moreno miss wide open holes Kuper and the OL were making....

I did not see them..

not that I was obsessing like you seemed to have done..

got an agenda?

lonestar
11-26-2012, 11:36 AM
Not that official listings are all that accurate but Moreno is typically listed 210-215, while I've seen Taylor listed anywhere from 205 to 215. So that being said, he doesn't really fit the bigger back role any better than Moreno.

if they are not over 225 I'm not interested..

Give me a good 240 guy that has a little speed and is not afraid of going up the gut I'm a happy camper..

I could care less if he can not take it to the house anytime he gets the ball....

I want a fumble free guy that can get me 2 tough yards when I have to have them..


Sounds like we just signed Hester..

Beantown Bronco
11-26-2012, 11:42 AM
lmao!! I saw Moreno miss wide open holes Kuper and the OL were making....

This is how OMane myths are created. One person says it. Another repeats it. Soon, it spreads like ebola.

AKBroncofan
11-26-2012, 11:55 AM
I'm glad he picked up some slack hope he continues in the right direction.

JakeZ01
11-26-2012, 12:09 PM
It seems blocking is helpful to a rb.. Who knew.

bronco militia
11-26-2012, 12:16 PM
This is how OMane myths are created. One person says it. Another repeats it. Soon, it spreads like ebola.

lol...at least Slowshon left his jazz hands and dancing shoes at home this week. Overall, I saw a ton of running yards left on the field.

Nwp-Apap
11-26-2012, 12:50 PM
Taylor is 215, Moreno plays between 200-210 most seasons both are 5-11.
he is not smaller by any stretch of the imagination.

Moreno is 218

Nwp-Apap
11-26-2012, 12:52 PM
Kuper was back...that was probably the biggest difference.

Ramirez is a better run blocker than a healthy Kuper. Kuper was obviously not 100% healthy yesterday either.

Nwp-Apap
11-26-2012, 12:55 PM
lol...at least Slowshon left his jazz hands and dancing shoes at home this week. Overall, I saw a ton of running yards left on the field.

Then you did not watch the game very closely, or you were not exactly sober. Knowshon made the most of every touch, and played as well as anyone could have hoped for. If any RB has that type of game every game, for a season, he's a pro bowler. It was a good game.

bronco militia
11-26-2012, 01:04 PM
Then you did not watch the game very closely, or you were not exactly sober. Knowshon made the most of every touch, and played as well as anyone could have hoped for. If any RB has that type of game every game, for a season, he's a pro bowler. It was a good game.

is there an echo in here?


LOL...and you didn't read any of my posts closely.

Requiem
11-26-2012, 01:15 PM
You guys don't like Moreno because of injuries, yet want to draft Christine Michael who has blown out a knee completely and broke his tibia in college. Not only that, but got ejected from a game this year for throwing a punch and suspended because he is an undisciplined dumbass and has been notorious for getting in the doghouse with the Aggies.

GTFO!

ludo21
11-26-2012, 01:29 PM
i was not surprised at his production.

Anyone suprised that he even took this role? Quite odd coming all the way up the depth chart to start a game.

Lestat
11-26-2012, 02:40 PM
Moreno is 218

he was a few seasons ago but he lost weight to regain quickness.

OrangeSe7en
11-26-2012, 03:19 PM
He knows this is his last chance, and he's rising to the occasion...

Aside from an embarrassing carry early in the game where he tripped over his own feet, he did a solid job. He ran north and south and was more decisive than he had been in the past. And, yes, he did seem to get religion where protecting the ball is concerned.

But it was only one game. Im not convinced it will hold up but you can always hope for the sake of this season.

Kaylore
11-26-2012, 03:30 PM
Anyone else notice the turf monster ate Moreno's shoes again? That silly turf monster...

BroncoBeavis
11-26-2012, 03:32 PM
I've been a Knowshow skeptic in the past, but now I'm cheering for the guy. He seemed super-conscious of following blocks this week. Maybe to a fault on a few plays. But at least he seems to be realizing the old KM wasn't working so he's trying something different.

I think if he starts to think strategically instead of relying purely on instinct (as he has in the past), he might be able to turn a corner.

Action
11-26-2012, 03:44 PM
Moreno ran with a bit more power at the end of his runs yesterday too...

I'm really hoping he plays well.

Odd that people on here want to see him fail, which would also mean that it would hinder the Broncos as a team...

SeedReaver
11-26-2012, 03:51 PM
Anyone else notice the turf monster ate Moreno's shoes again? That silly turf monster...
That bitch tripped him a few times too. Moreno and Decker are starting petitions to be sure all turf monsters have been eradicated before gametime.

ozomulsion
11-26-2012, 03:51 PM
I still say he's the worst. Should still be cut. :thumbs:

Mogulseeker
11-26-2012, 04:05 PM
Then you did not watch the game very closely, or you were not exactly sober. Knowshon made the most of every touch, and played as well as anyone could have hoped for. If any RB has that type of game every game, for a season, he's a pro bowler. It was a good game.

This is true. Knowshon played at a Pro Bowl level - for that game, at least.

Mogulseeker
11-26-2012, 04:07 PM
Aside from an embarrassing carry early in the game where he tripped over his own feet, he did a solid job. He ran north and south and was more decisive than he had been in the past. And, yes, he did seem to get religion where protecting the ball is concerned.

But it was only one game. Im not convinced it will hold up but you can always hope for the sake of this season.

I know everyone is saying he tripped on his own feet, and it kinda looked that way... but after several replays, Dierdorf was pretty sure it was Kupers lower leg he tripped over.

Lestat
11-26-2012, 04:08 PM
This is true. Knowshon played at a Pro Bowl level - for that game, at least.

we need to string together consistent games though.

Nwp-Apap
11-26-2012, 04:41 PM
he was a few seasons ago but he lost weight to regain quickness.

The opposite, actually. Started out at 205 in 2009, lost 5 lbs in 2010 doing crossfit for quickness to 200, went up to 210 when Fox was hired because Fox preferred thicker backs, and put on 8 more lbs since he tore his ACL and throughout this offseason, focusing on keeping the acquired speed from prior cuts and increasing strength and power. With the way he ran up the middle and through clutter yesterday, I'd say it works for him fairly well.

Nwp-Apap
11-26-2012, 04:43 PM
we need to string together consistent games though.

I agree.

If he replicates that game, or does better, throughout each remaining game this season and playoffs..do we keep him as the starter for next year?

ozomulsion
11-26-2012, 04:50 PM
I'm very proud of KM, as he did just what I thought he'd do. It's too bad those last 2 carries into a stacked box took away his 5.5 YPC before that. Even when the best RBs in the NFL bring their A game against the bucs, they still don't do very well. I just hope people don't jump all over his ass if his statistics aren't great next week.

HorseHead
11-26-2012, 05:04 PM
Apologies if it has been explained previously..where is Knowshon contractually?

sinuous sausage
11-26-2012, 05:25 PM
Patience to allow the holes to develop was one of Moreno's weaknesses. I was incredibly excited to see him run with patience like that. His biggest gains came from allowing the play to develop.

He's been watching Willis

Lestat
11-26-2012, 05:41 PM
The opposite, actually. Started out at 205 in 2009, lost 5 lbs in 2010 doing crossfit for quickness to 200, went up to 210 when Fox was hired because Fox preferred thicker backs, and put on 8 more lbs since he tore his ACL and throughout this offseason, focusing on keeping the acquired speed from prior cuts and increasing strength and power. With the way he ran up the middle and through clutter yesterday, I'd say it works for him fairly well.

Moreno himself said he played at 208-212 during his first two Broncos seasons. he slimmed down to 200 in 2011 and Fox's first season was in 2011 and he was 200 lbs as of July 2011. when did he suddenly gain 18 lbs?
every media outlet and even his own website lists him as 200 lbs.

if he did and i missed it my bad. but i don't remember reading anything about him gaining weight to play at a career high.

Nwp-Apap
11-26-2012, 05:58 PM
Apologies if it has been explained previously..where is Knowshon contractually?

Due $1.7mil next year, then the team has the option to keep him or cut him at no cost for 2014. If they keep him it's >$5million for that year.

So, in theory, the only way he's back next year is if he indisputably solidifies the #1 or #2 RB spot these next few weeks, and the only way he's back in 2014 at that price is if he solidifies himself as an above average #1 RB.

errand
11-26-2012, 06:06 PM
This is how OMane myths are created. One person says it. Another repeats it. Soon, it spreads like ebola.


I know right? There were no huge holes opened up....I'm think he might have been watching the Broncos game while watching xhamster too.....

CEH
11-27-2012, 12:04 PM
Just got a glimpse into why Knowshown may have been inactive for so long

Joel Dreesen on his radio show just said "Knowshown look good in practice all week and "did it right"

I take that to mean he has had trouble practicing correctly. Hoping he can keep up the good work

Agamemnon
11-27-2012, 12:09 PM
Moreno himself said he played at 208-212 during his first two Broncos seasons. he slimmed down to 200 in 2011 and Fox's first season was in 2011 and he was 200 lbs as of July 2011. when did he suddenly gain 18 lbs?
every media outlet and even his own website lists him as 200 lbs.

if he did and i missed it my bad. but i don't remember reading anything about him gaining weight to play at a career high.

He definitely looks much bigger right now than at any other point in his career. I'm not sure how people could miss it honestly. It's pretty obvious.

gyldenlove
11-27-2012, 12:10 PM
Just got a glimpse into why Knowshown may have been inactive for so long

Joel Dreesen on his radio show just said "Knowshown look good in practice all week and "did it right"

I take that to mean he has had trouble practicing correctly. Hoping he can keep up the good work

He was won the practice player of the week award several times according to staff this season.

2KBack
11-27-2012, 01:47 PM
Moreno himself said he played at 208-212 during his first two Broncos seasons. he slimmed down to 200 in 2011 and Fox's first season was in 2011 and he was 200 lbs as of July 2011. when did he suddenly gain 18 lbs?
every media outlet and even his own website lists him as 200 lbs.

if he did and i missed it my bad. but i don't remember reading anything about him gaining weight to play at a career high.

http://walterfootball.com/pro2009kmoreno.php

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65960&draftyear=2009&genpos=rb

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoreKn00.htm

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/1114939

All these places had/have him at 207-217

It's really hard to trust these things....any of them. I mean I doubt any of them have changed (including on the broncos site, or ESPN) since his rookie year...and there is a almost 20lb fluxuation

TonyR
11-27-2012, 03:40 PM
I know everyone is saying he tripped on his own feet, and it kinda looked that way... but after several replays, Dierdorf was pretty sure it was Kupers lower leg he tripped over.

Agree, I recall that as well, although I was thinking he said Beadles.

Lestat
11-27-2012, 04:54 PM
He definitely looks much bigger right now than at any other point in his career. I'm not sure how people could miss it honestly. It's pretty obvious.

muscle mass isn't the same as pure weight. he doesn't look that much bigger, just more defined and stronger.

Lestat
11-27-2012, 04:56 PM
http://walterfootball.com/pro2009kmoreno.php

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65960&draftyear=2009&genpos=rb

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MoreKn00.htm

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/historical/1114939

All these places had/have him at 207-217

It's really hard to trust these things....any of them. I mean I doubt any of them have changed (including on the broncos site, or ESPN) since his rookie year...and there is a almost 20lb fluxuation

they(most sport sites) normally change a players weight each season once they report to training camp and get weighed in officially. unless the mother is so big they can't get accurate weight.

NUB
11-27-2012, 07:54 PM
I want to see him run successfully against a team not named the Chiefs.

Agamemnon
11-27-2012, 08:53 PM
I want to see him run successfully against a team not named the Chiefs.

The Chiefs defense isn't why they are so terrible.

Mogulseeker
11-27-2012, 08:58 PM
I want to see him run successfully against a team not named the Chiefs.

The Chiefs actually have a pretty good line, and a good LB and Safety... their run defense is pretty much their only strength.

They run the ball decent, too. The reason they suck is that they don't have a QB and their abysmal redzone offense.

DENVERDUI55
11-27-2012, 09:42 PM
I want to see him run successfully against a team not named the Chiefs.



They did a pretty good job on our run game considering they played 5 and 6 man fronts. When they played 7 and 8 in known running situations they manhandled us.

Doggcow
11-27-2012, 10:32 PM
Traded Moreno and MoJo for Damaryius Thomas. I got Mojo for Hillman. Lol.

I don't think Mojo is coming back. So basically I got Damaryius Thomas for a waiver move :)

NUB
11-28-2012, 12:59 AM
I was referencing the fact Moreno has only had solid running days against the Chiefs, by the way.

Beantown Bronco
11-28-2012, 05:19 AM
I was referencing the fact Moreno has only had solid running days against the Chiefs, by the way.

Another OMane myth.

2KBack
11-28-2012, 05:51 AM
Another OMane myth.

Indeed, People get stuck on the final yard totals. Hard to have a ton of yards when you've only gotten 20+ carries 8 times in your career. On the other side he has averaged 4+ yards per carry in 18 games. (he averages 4.2 in the games he got 20+ carries in, same as his career ypa actually).

If he maintained a 4.2 average and averaged 20 carries he'd be a 1300-1400 yard back, and that is purely rushing the ball. Get him a few catches a game, which he excels at, and you are looking at 1700-2000 all purpose yards.

All that is based purely on his actual performance stats. Not superstar worthy, which is what people still expect, but a damn productive back still.

LRtagger
11-28-2012, 06:18 AM
Another OMane myth.

Exactly. He has several very good games his rookie year and played a big part in all of our wins that year.

JakeZ01
11-28-2012, 08:18 AM
Indeed, People get stuck on the final yard totals. Hard to have a ton of yards when you've only gotten 20+ carries 8 times in your career. On the other side he has averaged 4+ yards per carry in 18 games. (he averages 4.2 in the games he got 20+ carries in, same as his career ypa actually).

If he maintained a 4.2 average and averaged 20 carries he'd be a 1300-1400 yard back, and that is purely rushing the ball. Get him a few catches a game, which he excels at, and you are looking at 1700-2000 all purpose yards.

All that is based purely on his actual performance stats. Not superstar worthy, which is what people still expect, but a damn productive back still.

All these facts get in the way of my stupidity and knowshon hate. Please stop so I can continue to be a happy moron.

BroncoBeavis
11-28-2012, 08:40 AM
Exactly. He has several very good games his rookie year and played a big part in all of our wins that year.

Knowshow got zero slack because of the off-field stuff. Early promise followed by little progress, garnished with Saucy DUI goodness just smells like a kid pissing away potential.

Sounds like maybe he learned something from his time in Inactiveland and can get a fresh start. I'll drink to that tonight.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-28-2012, 08:43 AM
Indeed, People get stuck on the final yard totals. Hard to have a ton of yards when you've only gotten 20+ carries 8 times in your career. On the other side he has averaged 4+ yards per carry in 18 games. (he averages 4.2 in the games he got 20+ carries in, same as his career ypa actually).

If he maintained a 4.2 average and averaged 20 carries he'd be a 1300-1400 yard back, and that is purely rushing the ball. Get him a few catches a game, which he excels at, and you are looking at 1700-2000 all purpose yards.

All that is based purely on his actual performance stats. Not superstar worthy, which is what people still expect, but a damn productive back still.

Perception's reality round these parts. When Knowshon makes a sweet play (that screen pass he took for a TD against SD last year for example), people here only view it negatively, as if he should make plays like that every play. It comes with a "finally" exclamation. Obviously he's been a disappointment, and he's played far under his talent level, but people need to get their head checked when he's mentioned in the same breath as Lance Ball.

DENVERDUI55
11-28-2012, 10:35 AM
Slowshon is a hof player. Rack it.

Play2win
11-28-2012, 12:07 PM
really, the only time Moreno has looked good, is when he is catching the ball. Sometimes he looks REAL GOOD catching the ball out of the backfield. Seriously, why not turn him into a primary receiving-only type of back. Pass-Pro + Receiving out of the backfield. Find somebody else to actually run the ball....

Beantown Bronco
11-28-2012, 02:11 PM
Seriously, why not turn him into a primary receiving-only type of back. Pass-Pro + Receiving out of the backfield. Find somebody else to actually run the ball....

So you want to come right out and just tell the defense that you're passing the ball every single time he's in the backfield? Nothing could go wrong there.

Rabb
11-28-2012, 02:24 PM
So you want to come right out and just tell the defense that you're passing the ball every single time he's in the backfield? Nothing could go wrong there.

It's like Tebow, but in reverse!

NUB
11-28-2012, 03:58 PM
Another OMane myth.

Oh, is that why he was inactive this season, to be replaced by the youngest player in the entire NFL? Because he's so consistent and stays on the field? Someone mentioned he never gets 20+ carries as if that's a coaching decision. Moreno doesn't get 20+ carries because he breaks in half after ten. Wanna know why McGahee is an immensely superior runningback? Because he runs hard, he knows how to cut into holes, and he stays on the field. Which of those can Moreno do? The only myth here is that Moreno is a great blocker and ball catcher. But in a pass-heavy offense he's inactive. Makes perfect sense. You apologists are nuts.

Agamemnon
11-28-2012, 04:30 PM
Indeed, People get stuck on the final yard totals. Hard to have a ton of yards when you've only gotten 20+ carries 8 times in your career. On the other side he has averaged 4+ yards per carry in 18 games. (he averages 4.2 in the games he got 20+ carries in, same as his career ypa actually).

If he maintained a 4.2 average and averaged 20 carries he'd be a 1300-1400 yard back, and that is purely rushing the ball. Get him a few catches a game, which he excels at, and you are looking at 1700-2000 all purpose yards.

All that is based purely on his actual performance stats. Not superstar worthy, which is what people still expect, but a damn productive back still.

If only he could stay healthy...

Beantown Bronco
11-28-2012, 05:38 PM
Oh, is that why he was inactive this season, to be replaced by the youngest player in the entire NFL? Because he's so consistent and stays on the field?

Ummm, what? Forget to take your meds or something?

You're making a COMPLETELY different argument here.

I was responding to the statement that Moreno has only played well against the Chiefs. That statement is flat out wrong and cannot be defended. Sorry.

Nwp-Apap
11-28-2012, 06:47 PM
Oh, is that why he was inactive this season, to be replaced by the youngest player in the entire NFL? Because he's so consistent and stays on the field? Someone mentioned he never gets 20+ carries as if that's a coaching decision. Moreno doesn't get 20+ carries because he breaks in half after ten. Wanna know why McGahee is an immensely superior runningback? Because he runs hard, he knows how to cut into holes, and he stays on the field. Which of those can Moreno do? The only myth here is that Moreno is a great blocker and ball catcher. But in a pass-heavy offense he's inactive. Makes perfect sense. You apologists are nuts.

Lol what.

Lestat
11-28-2012, 08:08 PM
i wanna see Moreno do some one cut and go tough running on a consistent basis.

2KBack
11-29-2012, 06:13 AM
Oh, is that why he was inactive this season, to be replaced by the youngest player in the entire NFL? Because he's so consistent and stays on the field? Someone mentioned he never gets 20+ carries as if that's a coaching decision. Moreno doesn't get 20+ carries because he breaks in half after ten. Wanna know why McGahee is an immensely superior runningback? Because he runs hard, he knows how to cut into holes, and he stays on the field. Which of those can Moreno do? The only myth here is that Moreno is a great blocker and ball catcher. But in a pass-heavy offense he's inactive. Makes perfect sense. You apologists are nuts.

Games missed due to injury in the first 2 years as Broncos:
Moreno: 3
Mcgahee: 7

TD per touch ratio:
Moreno: TD every 30.2 touches
Mcgahee: TD every 60.5 touches

As pass catchers only:
Moreno: a TD per 13.5 catches
McGahee: a TD per 40.4 catches

I like Willis, and he is a tough runner, but there are no numbers to back up him being "Vastly superior" when it comes to production for the broncos. All it is is bias.

Requiem
11-29-2012, 06:20 AM
Where were the goons who wanted Michael from A&M again? I notice that they vacated the thread as soon as I brought up his history of suckitude.

2KBack
11-29-2012, 06:43 AM
Where were the goons who wanted Michael from A&M again? I notice that they vacated the thread as soon as I brought up his history of suckitude.

I like Michael as a player....I prefer Cameron Marshall though

Requiem
11-29-2012, 06:47 AM
Too bad Marshall's teammate is better.

2KBack
11-29-2012, 07:01 AM
Too bad Marshall's teammate is better.

Who, Grice? He's more of a situational guy. Good athlete, but won't run as well in a traditional offense I don't think. He's more Felix Jones IMO.

baja
11-29-2012, 07:19 AM
Q: I would like you to go into more detail on (Broncos running back Knowshon) Moreno in light of his production in the Chiefs game. Peyton Manning seems comfortable with him, he catches everything thrown in his direction and he even pointed out some defensive alignments from his running back position. Is it surprising the coaches used him extensively and were rewarded given his inactivity for the last six weeks?

A: Andy, it was pretty clear in the days leading up to the Chiefs game Moreno was going to be a big part of the game plan. And as things rolled on through Friday and Saturday, the rumblings were he would start the game.
Essentially, the Broncos moved him from being a gameday inactive for eight games into the starting lineup because they felt Moreno offered them the best size-speed combination with Willis McGahee on injured reserve to go with the things they needed in the passing game.
Broncos coach John Fox wants a bigger back in the lead role if possible. And when McGahee was injured, that left Moreno as the most physical runner available on the roster. And while Moreno took part in training camp, the preseason and the early part of the regular season after surgery to repair his ACL last December, Fox said this week Moreno is really just nearing 100 percent on the leg now.
It often takes at least a calendar year, sometimes even into the second calendar year, before a player feels as if he has regained his explosiveness in the repaired knee and more importantly the confidence to run on the repaired leg the way they did before the injury.
Or as John Fox put it:
"It does take time until you're 100 percent. You're cleared to play but you're not as exact as you probably think you should be. He needed some time and he had a great attitude, great mindset throughout that period of time and just by the nature of this league and injuries are part of the game, we knew we needed him and he went about it right so that's why he looked so good."
He was not running with confidence early in the season, was impatient at times with the ball and too hesitant at others. A fumble against the Falcons certainly didn't help his cause. He had just three carries in the game . And he was then a gameday inactive for eight consecutive games.

The time away seems, at least for one game, to have helped. He looked physically stronger against the Chiefs and ran with the most patience, setting up blocks effectively, that he's shown in his time with the Broncos. One of his biggest challenges moving forward will be to consistently show that patience and vision, because he has routinely run himself out of plays by ill-timed cuts.
When the Broncos moved him up to starter this past week, it was a combination of his improving health, their desire for some size in the backfield and, perhaps most importantly, Moreno's work in pass protection.





Read more: Knowshon Moreno's pass protection a big part of his move into offense - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22081830/knowshon-morenos-pass-protection-big-part-his-move?source=jBar#ixzz2Dcp16dqd
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Crushaholic
11-29-2012, 07:25 AM
Games missed due to injury in the first 2 years as Broncos:
Moreno: 3
Mcgahee: 7

TD per touch ratio:
Moreno: TD every 30.2 touches
Mcgahee: TD every 60.5 touches

As pass catchers only:
Moreno: a TD per 13.5 catches
McGahee: a TD per 40.4 catches

I like Willis, and he is a tough runner, but there are no numbers to back up him being "Vastly superior" when it comes to production for the broncos. All it is is bias.

As tough as I was on Moreno's running, I WAS impressed with his pass catching ability. More than likely, he found himself in open space. I have nothing but praise, for that aspect of Moreno's game...:thumbsup:

lonestar
11-29-2012, 09:33 AM
Games missed due to injury in the first 2 years as Broncos:
Moreno: 3
Mcgahee: 7

TD per touch ratio:
Moreno: TD every 30.2 touches
Mcgahee: TD every 60.5 touches

As pass catchers only:
Moreno: a TD per 13.5 catches
McGahee: a TD per 40.4 catches

I like Willis, and he is a tough runner, but there are no numbers to back up him being "Vastly superior" when it comes to production for the broncos. All it is is bias.

Sometimes you do not rate players on TDs. How about going and looking at the stats for ypc, 3rd and short yard conversion.

While you may be enamoured with Moreno the coaches have not been. That frankly is all that counts.

There was a reason for him being inactive all year.

2KBack
11-29-2012, 10:17 AM
Sometimes you do not rate players on TDs. How about going and looking at the stats for ypc, 3rd and short yard conversion.

While you may be enamoured with Moreno the coaches have not been. That frankly is all that counts.

There was a reason for him being inactive all year.

I don't have the 3rd down numbers....But Willis and Knowshown both have career 4.2 YPA....rushing the ball that is. Receiving Moreno kills at 8.9 yards per reception to Mcgahees 6.5

LRtagger
11-29-2012, 10:32 AM
Moreno was inactive but was still obviously the #2 fulltime back. To say he was 4th string is retarded after he just started and got all but 4 carries after Willis goes to IR. I would guess Hester will fill that role now of being inactive unless Moreno gets injured.

Hillman is our situational back and Ball is a STer which is the reason they were active. They were not ahead of Moreno on the real depth chart. I would think any idiot could deduce that.

baja
11-29-2012, 11:50 AM
Moreno was inactive but was still obviously the #2 fulltime back. To say he was 4th string is retarded after he just started and got all but 4 carries after Willis goes to IR. I would guess Hester will fill that role now of being inactive unless Moreno gets injured.

Hillman is our situational back and Ball is a STer which is the reason they were active. They were not ahead of Moreno on the real depth chart. I would think any idiot could deduce that.

Not to mention he is 8 or 9 months removed from a serious knee injury that often takes a year of more to come back 100% from and Fox stated he wanted to give him time to heal.

lonestar
11-29-2012, 04:34 PM
I don't have the 3rd down numbers....But Willis and Knowshown both have career 4.2 YPA....rushing the ball that is. Receiving Moreno kills at 8.9 yards per reception to Mcgahees 6.5

the passing difference issue could be caused by down and distance, how close you are to the goal..

I will still take the big guy over Moreno and I have never had a problem with him from day one..

I just like bigger backs, as they tend to be more durable IMO.. Frankly I do not care about take it to teh house aspects of the game..

Unless you are talking about TD, Steven Jackson it is worth talking about.. it happens so seldom it is a none issue for me..

yerner
11-29-2012, 04:55 PM
Not to mention he is 8 or 9 months removed from a serious knee injury that often takes a year of more to come back 100% from and Fox stated he wanted to give him time to heal.

I think he is just past a year with the knee. Wasn't it the Kansas City game last november? Either way, its the whole point with him people somehow forget. dude blew out his knee.

2KBack
11-29-2012, 04:56 PM
the passing difference issue could be caused by down and distance, how close you are to the goal..

I will still take the big guy over Moreno and I have never had a problem with him from day one..

I just like bigger backs, as they tend to be more durable IMO.. Frankly I do not care about take it to teh house aspects of the game..

Unless you are talking about TD, Steven Jackson it is worth talking about.. it happens so seldom it is a none issue for me..

This isn't a question of who would you rather have....we have them both. The point I am trying to get across is that Moreno can be/and by most measures has been productive. It is fine to prefer one to another, but it is simply disingenuous to say one sucks and the other doesn't, because the numbers just don't reflect that.

I have been a vocal supporter of Moreno, but you can see that I am also in support of drafting another horse....and he is a bigger back.

Cito Pelon
11-29-2012, 05:17 PM
I think he is just past a year with the knee. Wasn't it the Kansas City game last november? Either way, its the whole point with him people somehow forget. dude blew out his knee.

Yeah, dude was wearing a knee brace in preseason. How often do you see a RB wearing a knee brace? He obviously wasn't ready physically, they probably tried to bring him back too soon. And being the knucklehead he is (and he IS a knucklehead) he probably wanted to come back too soon also.

HorseHead
11-29-2012, 05:23 PM
If he can be about 60% the player Edgerin James was, we're in for nice run..

Cito Pelon
11-29-2012, 05:28 PM
This isn't a question of who would you rather have....we have them both. The point I am trying to get across is that Moreno can be/and by most measures has been productive. It is fine to prefer one to another, but it is simply disingenuous to say one sucks and the other doesn't, because the numbers just don't reflect that.

I have been a vocal supporter of Moreno, but you can see that I am also in support of drafting another horse....and he is a bigger back.

Well, some folks call those fake stats or some such silly garbage. Same as some folks claim this is last chance in the NFL, which is just as silly. If Denver is dumb enough to cut him loose, he'll be snatched up fast. Probably by Shanahan.

errand
11-29-2012, 05:52 PM
I don't have the 3rd down numbers

I do.....

Moreno for his Broncos career on 3rd down has 32 carries for 142 yards 4.4 avg.

McGahee for his Broncos career on 3rd down has 32 carries for 84 yards 2.6 avg.

But before you start saying I'm cherry picking stats.....for his entire career McGahee has 158 3rd down carries for 2.8 avg. Of course Moreno hasn't played for anyone else but the Broncos....

Nwp-Apap
11-29-2012, 05:58 PM
I do.....

Moreno for his Broncos career on 3rd down has 32 carries for 142 yards 4.4 avg.

McGahee for his Broncos career on 3rd down has 32 carries for 84 yards 2.6 avg.

But before you start saying I'm cherry picking stats.....for his entire career McGahee has 158 3rd down carries for 2.8 avg. Of course Moreno hasn't played for anyone else but the Broncos....

I have been a vocal supporter of Moreno since he was drafted, but I was unaware he was so efficient on 3rd down, those are impressive numbers. Do you happen to know his 3rd down recieving stats? And whether he converted those runs/receptions into 1st downs?

errand
11-29-2012, 06:10 PM
I have been a vocal supporter of Moreno since he was drafted, but I was unaware he was so efficient on 3rd down, those are impressive numbers. Do you happen to know his 3rd down recieving stats? And whether he converted those runs/receptions into 1st downs?

He has a career 12 receptions for 69 yards 5.8 avg. on 3rd down......

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/12516/year/2009/knowshon-moreno

all you have to do is go up to the year and scroll up to see each individual season....page posted is rookie season 2009.

NUB
11-29-2012, 10:28 PM
I was responding to the statement that Moreno has only played well against the Chiefs. That statement is flat out wrong and cannot be defended. Sorry.

Moreno has only had two one-hundred yard games in 2.5+ seasons of starting games. Both were against Kansas City. You're right, he has had other good games, but when it comes to running the football the KC games are the only ones I can think of where he looked like a running back taken at #12.


Games missed due to injury in the first 2 years as Broncos:
Moreno: 3
Mcgahee: 7

Wow, cool stats. Let's start with this one. Well, I'd hate to point out the obvious difference here, but well, here we go: McGahee was over 30 when he got to Denver. And, you arguing via statistics, naturally limited the years there so as to avoid showing Moreno's lost season. Regardless, you know exactly what I meant: Moreno took himself out of games. This is arguably the biggest reason he couldn't cut it and why he got demoted. He would get the rock, two-three times, limp off the field for a couple plays, and then come back on. Also, these stats are completely wrong.


TD per touch ratio:
Moreno: TD every 30.2 touches
Mcgahee: TD every 60.5 touches

As pass catchers only:
Moreno: a TD per 13.5 catches
McGahee: a TD per 40.4 catches

I like Willis, and he is a tough runner, but there are no numbers to back up him being "Vastly superior" when it comes to production for the broncos. All it is is bias.

No it ain't. Do not even begin to pretend that Moreno is anywhere near McGahee's level. This kind of blind apologism is ridiculous. Knowshon Moreno was benched and replaced by the youngest player in the entire NFL for a reason, and you wanna act like these two players are even close in production, talent, and everything else? Seriously? McGahee is a workhorse back who gets a lot of touches. Moreno's a scatback who takes five whenever he can. Huge difference.

If stats were everything Moreno would not have been benched (not just this year, but the past years, too). So cling to those stats all you want, but they don't represent reality. The coaches, and really anybody who actually watched the games, saw what was on the field and judged accordingly.

BroncoFox
11-29-2012, 11:18 PM
I like Moreno quite a bit, but he never seems to stay healthy long enough to cheer for the guy. If he stays healthy, I think he'll be just fine.

lonestar
11-29-2012, 11:29 PM
This isn't a question of who would you rather have....we have them both. The point I am trying to get across is that Moreno can be/and by most measures has been productive. It is fine to prefer one to another, but it is simply disingenuous to say one sucks and the other doesn't, because the numbers just don't reflect that.

I have been a vocal supporter of Moreno, but you can see that I am also in support of drafting another horse....and he is a bigger back.

I doubt you will ever find a post of mine that says Moreno sucks. Overall I think he is a good RB, I just like bigger guys to handle the load. Every time we have had one Ma,MB and now WM. he have the ability to score inside the five. Have the ability to get a 3rd and short.

As for right now having both. Thru this year yes but km large cap number tells me he will not be here next year unless he kills it the next 6 games.

Nwp-Apap
11-29-2012, 11:46 PM
Moreno has only had two one-hundred yard games in 2.5+ seasons of starting games. Both were against Kansas City. You're right, he has had other good games, but when it comes to running the football the KC games are the only ones I can think of where he looked like a running back taken at #12.




Wow, cool stats. Let's start with this one. Well, I'd hate to point out the obvious difference here, but well, here we go: McGahee was over 30 when he got to Denver. And, you arguing via statistics, naturally limited the years there so as to avoid showing Moreno's lost season. Regardless, you know exactly what I meant: Moreno took himself out of games. This is arguably the biggest reason he couldn't cut it and why he got demoted. He would get the rock, two-three times, limp off the field for a couple plays, and then come back on. Also, these stats are completely wrong.




No it ain't. Do not even begin to pretend that Moreno is anywhere near McGahee's level. This kind of blind apologism is ridiculous. Knowshon Moreno was benched and replaced by the youngest player in the entire NFL for a reason, and you wanna act like these two players are even close in production, talent, and everything else? Seriously? McGahee is a workhorse back who gets a lot of touches. Moreno's a scatback who takes five whenever he can. Huge difference.

If stats were everything Moreno would not have been benched (not just this year, but the past years, too). So cling to those stats all you want, but they don't represent reality. The coaches, and really anybody who actually watched the games, saw what was on the field and judged accordingly.

Please stop.

I understand your point of view, and it has merit, but the way you are presenting it is not productive. You seem to try to exaggerate to make a point, and that style of debate has never come off as mature, nor does it ever covert anyone to your viewpoint. Which is what the whole point of debating is, right?

Drek
11-30-2012, 03:22 AM
I doubt you will ever find a post of mine that says Moreno sucks. Overall I think he is a good RB, I just like bigger guys to handle the load. Every time we have had one Ma,MB and now WM. he have the ability to score inside the five. Have the ability to get a 3rd and short.

As for right now having both. Thru this year yes but km large cap number tells me he will not be here next year unless he kills it the next 6 games.

Moreno is now a bigger back though. He's up to about 218, easily the heaviest he's been as a Bronco.

It'll be interesting to see how he plays now with the added weight. If he hasn't lost any speed and retained most of his lateral mobility he could do very well with the added muscle.

2KBack
11-30-2012, 06:13 AM
Wow, cool stats. Let's start with this one. Well, I'd hate to point out the obvious difference here, but well, here we go: McGahee was over 30 when he got to Denver. And, you arguing via statistics, naturally limited the years there so as to avoid showing Moreno's lost season. Regardless, you know exactly what I meant: Moreno took himself out of games. This is arguably the biggest reason he couldn't cut it and why he got demoted. He would get the rock, two-three times, limp off the field for a couple plays, and then come back on. Also, these stats are completely wrong.

No it ain't. Do not even begin to pretend that Moreno is anywhere near McGahee's level. This kind of blind apologism is ridiculous. Knowshon Moreno was benched and replaced by the youngest player in the entire NFL for a reason, and you wanna act like these two players are even close in production, talent, and everything else? Seriously? McGahee is a workhorse back who gets a lot of touches. Moreno's a scatback who takes five whenever he can. Huge difference.

If stats were everything Moreno would not have been benched (not just this year, but the past years, too). So cling to those stats all you want, but they don't represent reality. The coaches, and really anybody who actually watched the games, saw what was on the field and judged accordingly.

Sorry, Stats are the only quantifiable way to measure players....it is the only way to come close to taking personal bias out of the equation. Since you are refusing to look at the evidence, it is up to me to point out numbers. I don't do it to being WM down, I do it to bring a little reality to the Moreno bashing.

Since age is now the stat you wish to use, we can always go that route.

Moreno's first 2 seasons:
275 touches 4.2 yards per touch 1160 total yards
219 touches 5.3 yards per touch 1151 total yards

McGahee's first 2 seasons:
306 touches 4.2 YPT 1297 total yards
353 touches 4 YPT 1425 Total yards

Mcgahee has an edge in total yards (and 1 more TD over those 2 seasons). Note that he also had more opportunities. Keeping their effectiveness per touch and reversing how many times they were given opportunities it looks like this:

Moreno:
1285 total yards
1871 total yards

MCGahee:
1160 total yards
876 total yards

So statistically the players were equally as effective on a per play basis as rookies, but Moreno was actually far more productive per touch in their second years. This of course doesn't take total team differences, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a team in worse shape from a coaching perspective than Denver in Moreno's first two seasons (Buff may be close though).

So at the same age....the players were comparable. Yet I keep seeing that Moreno is an ineffective ballerina, or no-show, or slowshon. You wanna be concerned with his completely exaggerated injury history? Well I'm not going to count how often Moreno gets up slowly in a game, but I'm confident it's not much more than most RB's. The facts remain, when Moreno gets the ball, he has been every bit as productive.

Beantown Bronco
11-30-2012, 06:33 AM
Anxiously awaiting the next "moving of the goalposts" by NUB.

maher_tyler
11-30-2012, 07:40 AM
Moreno is now a bigger back though. He's up to about 218, easily the heaviest he's been as a Bronco.

It'll be interesting to see how he plays now with the added weight. If he hasn't lost any speed and retained most of his lateral mobility he could do very well with the added muscle.

Interesting. Hopefully the added weight will help him stay healthy. The only beef i've had with him are his health and fumbling issues.

LRtagger
11-30-2012, 08:06 AM
Knowshon Moreno was benched and replaced by the youngest player in the entire NFL

No, he wasnt

Heyneck
11-30-2012, 08:11 AM
Moreno has only had two one-hundred yard games in 2.5+ seasons of starting games. Both were against Kansas City. You're right, he has had other good games, but when it comes to running the football the KC games are the only ones I can think of where he looked like a running back taken at #12.




Wow, cool stats. Let's start with this one. Well, I'd hate to point out the obvious difference here, but well, here we go: McGahee was over 30 when he got to Denver. And, you arguing via statistics, naturally limited the years there so as to avoid showing Moreno's lost season. Regardless, you know exactly what I meant: Moreno took himself out of games. This is arguably the biggest reason he couldn't cut it and why he got demoted. He would get the rock, two-three times, limp off the field for a couple plays, and then come back on. Also, these stats are completely wrong.




No it ain't. Do not even begin to pretend that Moreno is anywhere near McGahee's level. This kind of blind apologism is ridiculous. Knowshon Moreno was benched and replaced by the youngest player in the entire NFL for a reason, and you wanna act like these two players are even close in production, talent, and everything else? Seriously? McGahee is a workhorse back who gets a lot of touches. Moreno's a scatback who takes five whenever he can. Huge difference.

If stats were everything Moreno would not have been benched (not just this year, but the past years, too). So cling to those stats all you want, but they don't represent reality. The coaches, and really anybody who actually watched the games, saw what was on the field and judged accordingly.

WTF? Who rode the bench last game? Hilman was never the backup, he has been a specialty package player up to this point. And for your workhorse reference,... you do know that Willis hasn't carried the ball 20 times all season? well,... Moreno did that in his first game back. Moreno doesn't have bad stats, he had a bad oline (system) that would get him hit behind the LOF 70% of the time. Go look Moreno's yard after contact, pretty good too.

Leave your hate or preference for another player, take off the horse shades and maybe you can see the full picture.

errand
11-30-2012, 06:07 PM
naturally limited the years there so as to avoid showing Moreno's lost season.






Umm you seem to forget that McGahee was on IR his rookie season.....so does that count as a lost season?

Not to mention in 2008 he had many nagging injuries (eye, ankle, shoulder and kneee) which forced the Ravens to go to a RB by committee....and eventually cost him his job and made him expendable.

errand
11-30-2012, 06:24 PM
Interesting. Hopefully the added weight will help him stay healthy. The only beef i've had with him are his health and fumbling issues.

For his career, McGahee has 28 fumbles on 2159 touches (rushes and receptions) which is 1 fumble every 77 touches....by contrast Moreno has 9 fumbles on 575 touches which is 1 fumble every 64 touches.....and keep in mind almost half of his total fumbles (4) came in his rookie season.

errand
11-30-2012, 06:35 PM
and FYI for those concerned about potential cold weather games.....Moreno has 87 touches for 483 yards when the mercury dips below 40 degrees F. for a 5.6 yard average per touch.

DENVERDUI55
11-30-2012, 08:36 PM
For his career, McGahee has 28 fumbles on 2159 touches (rushes and receptions) which is 1 fumble every 77 touches....by contrast Moreno has 9 fumbles on 575 touches which is 1 fumble every 64 touches.....and keep in mind almost half of his total fumbles (4) came in his rookie season.

Using Willis as the bar for RB fumbles is not good. He has always been known as a fumbler and Slowshon is fumbling more? I'll give him the benefit that this is his last chance but the chain is short and down to about the last link.

TomServo
12-01-2012, 12:46 AM
OK he "stepped up his game" for KM that means he didnt fumble(thats important) and he rushed for a whopping-very average 85 yards. the fact that we have to celebrate that isnt a good thing. his career is on the the line and he Still hasnt broken a long run in four years. and you can see that he's just bursting at the seams to celebrate every first down like his touchdowns in That &^$%* historic loss to the raiders.
And Thats where i really started to Dislike that little idiot. the raider game, the freaking raiders are putting a historic loss on us At Home. and that little a-hole is dancing in the endzone. Worst bronco loss in history At Home at the idiot dances in the endzone.

Nwp-Apap
12-01-2012, 04:07 AM
OK he "stepped up his game" for KM that means he didnt fumble(thats important) and he rushed for a whopping-very average 85 yards. the fact that we have to celebrate that isnt a good thing. his career is on the the line and he Still hasnt broken a long run in four years. and you can see that he's just bursting at the seams to celebrate every first down like his touchdowns in That &^$%* historic loss to the raiders.
And Thats where i really started to Dislike that little idiot. the raider game, the freaking raiders are putting a historic loss on us At Home. and that little a-hole is dancing in the endzone. Worst bronco loss in history At Home at the idiot dances in the endzone.

What would you rather he do, cry? I would prefer our players celebrate every one of our positive plays rather than sulk and bitch and moan. You started to dislike him because he was excited he made a play for a team that had every other player give up on the season? You started disliking him when he was the only Bronco taking pride in success? I have to ask, are you even a Bronco fan?

How is that even a reason t dislike a player? How is that a reason to call him an idiot, or an a hole. For celebrating a Bronco TD, when every other player has accepted defeat. How is celebrating a good play a reason to dislike a player? That is the most retarded thing I have ever read on the mane.. Again, I question your fandom.

And FYI, a "very average" 85 yards is above average. Also, you must add the 26 receiving yards. You wouldn't take a back that ran for 85 each game? That would be over 1300 a year, pretty above average, and then the 26 extrapolates to over 400.

One more thing, have you ever played football? Probably not competitively, but have you actually ever thrown a football around with friends? Your post tells me no. When you have success on any given play, you're gonna want to celebrate..that's not a bad thing.

2KBack
12-01-2012, 04:58 AM
Watch Moreno on the sideline if you get the chance....he celebrates EVERY successful play by the Broncos. The kids is always excited and loves playing....that isn't a negative.

Drek
12-01-2012, 04:58 AM
OK he "stepped up his game" for KM that means he didnt fumble(thats important) and he rushed for a whopping-very average 85 yards. the fact that we have to celebrate that isnt a good thing. his career is on the the line and he Still hasnt broken a long run in four years. and you can see that he's just bursting at the seams to celebrate every first down like his touchdowns in That &^$%* historic loss to the raiders.
And Thats where i really started to Dislike that little idiot. the raider game, the freaking raiders are putting a historic loss on us At Home. and that little a-hole is dancing in the endzone. Worst bronco loss in history At Home at the idiot dances in the endzone.
So your basis for disliking Moreno was him celebrating a touchdown in a game where almost every other Bronco flat out stopped trying.

Makes a ton of sense there. Historic beat down and the one guy who's still fighting pisses you off with some dancing while the 40+ guys who flat out rolled over the entire second half apparently didn't offend you in the least.

lonestar
12-01-2012, 09:48 AM
Call me old school but Morenos celebrations after a small gain or a good run make me wonder if he has clue.

The only thing I expect from a player is to act like they have done it before and plan to do it again and again.

To me those celebrations say I did something I was not sure I could do. Regardless of who did them.

Td's mile high salute was sufficient for all Broncos fans. Classy and not in your face. Many players now emulate it today. Yet our guys feel the need to dance..

Celebrate your roots with a salute to your fans and team mates..

cmhargrove
12-01-2012, 11:19 AM
It's hard to believe we have members of this board wishing ill will on Moreno and his renewed efforts. He is now a key player on this offense and an important component of our playoff run.

Go Knowshon, take advantage of the opportunity, and hopefully you've got it figured out this time!

lonestar
12-01-2012, 11:27 AM
It's hard to believe we have members of this board wishing ill will on Moreno and his renewed efforts. He is now a key player on this offense and an important component of our playoff run.

Go Knowshon, take advantage of the opportunity, and hopefully you've got it figured out this time!

I agree other than his custom license plates, I do not think he has done anything but TRY to be a good player for his team.

From what I have heard seems to have the players behind him

Now we have "FANS" that wish him ill, for various reasons probably the biggest was Josh took him in the draft instead of their favs.

Amost every thing else is derived from that had he been taken later in the draft 98% of his detractors would be lots more tolerant.

But they expect all top picks to be all pros. How short their memories are if that is the case, they seem to have given mikey a pass on all of his total FUBARs on day one and two.

I wish him the best and hope that he can be a bigger part of the offense.

Popps
12-01-2012, 12:20 PM
It's hard to believe we have members of this board wishing ill will on Moreno and his renewed efforts. He is now a key player on this offense and an important component of our playoff run.

Go Knowshon, take advantage of the opportunity, and hopefully you've got it figured out this time!

Some people hang onto **** and root against our players to fit some agenda they developed over the years.

Bottom line, the dude is a Bronco and can help us on a potential SB run this year. I'm behind him 100%. If he stays healthy, he'll be a vital weapon for us.

Go Kno.

sinuous sausage
12-01-2012, 12:42 PM
Some people hang onto **** and root against our players to fit some agenda they developed over the years.

Bottom line, the dude is a Bronco and can help us on a potential SB run this year. I'm behind him 100%. If he stays healthy, he'll be a vital weapon for us.

Go Kno.

Well this post is bat**** crazy...















...good

Jetmeck
12-01-2012, 01:05 PM
I like his attitude on the sideline and while he was demoted. He rose to the occasion against a very tough KC defense.....I told you clowns they would bring it.

Moreno has the talent............he may have just got the kick in the tail he needs to show it !

TB look out.............

Agamemnon
12-01-2012, 02:04 PM
I'll never get why people get so bent out of shape with the way the guy gets excited when he has a good run. That just seems to be his personality. He was known for the same stuff at Georgia. At least it shows he cares.

errand
12-01-2012, 03:05 PM
Using Willis as the bar for RB fumbles is not good. He has always been known as a fumbler and Slowshon is fumbling more? I'll give him the benefit that this is his last chance but the chain is short and down to about the last link.

Well McGahee is who he replaced due to injury...which is why I used him as the "bar"

bowtown
12-01-2012, 03:32 PM
My source says he's no Deangelo Williams.

errand
12-01-2012, 03:41 PM
OK he "stepped up his game" for KM that means he didnt fumble(thats important) and he rushed for a whopping-very average 85 yards. the fact that we have to celebrate that isnt a good thing. his career is on the the line and he Still hasnt broken a long run in four years. and you can see that he's just bursting at the seams to celebrate every first down like his touchdowns in That &^$%* historic loss to the raiders.
And Thats where i really started to Dislike that little idiot. the raider game, the freaking raiders are putting a historic loss on us At Home. and that little a-hole is dancing in the endzone. Worst bronco loss in history At Home at the idiot dances in the endzone.


So I'm guessing you had a problem with Elway spiking the ball on his TD run in SBXXIV that made the score 41-10?

TomServo
12-02-2012, 02:06 AM
NO. the Worst loss in bronco history. let me repeat it. the Worst loss in Bronco history. to the raiders. let me repeat that. to the raiders. and whos dancing? who doesnt seem to give a F about the raiders broncos thing? who wants to dance? thank god belicheat wasnt on the other side or they might have hung 100 points on us, but yay moreno scored a td so he can dance dance.

TomServo
12-02-2012, 02:12 AM
i said congrats KM. he didnt fumble or fall off the bike in front of everybody. but Dam all the congrtas becaude he didnt f up

TomServo
12-02-2012, 02:18 AM
So I'm guessing you had a problem with Elway spiking the ball on his TD run in SBXXIV that made the score 41-10?
Elway in th SB and and KM getting a first down?

TomServo
12-02-2012, 02:29 AM
holy crap, TD, Otis Armstrong, Floyd Little, and Knowshon Moreno? who doesnt belong on that list? bobby humphrey, gaston green,steve sewell.sammy winder, gerald whilite. all better than KM

2KBack
12-02-2012, 05:08 AM
NO. the Worst loss in bronco history. let me repeat it. the Worst loss in Bronco history. to the raiders. let me repeat that. to the raiders. and whos dancing? who doesnt seem to give a F about the raiders broncos thing? who wants to dance? thank god belicheat wasnt on the other side or they might have hung 100 points on us, but yay moreno scored a td so he can dance dance.

You are really hung up on something completely meaningless. When your hate for a player clings so desperately to something like...celebrates at time you feel it less appropriate.....the problem may be you.

Beantown Bronco
12-02-2012, 05:24 AM
I love how that one TD against the Raiders has all of a sudden turned into "every run of more than 2 yards". You haters really need to quit it with the myth spreading.

Dr. Broncenstein
12-02-2012, 07:13 AM
I see him rollin. I'm hatin.

DENVERDUI55
12-02-2012, 08:19 AM
I love how that one TD against the Raiders has all of a sudden turned into "every run of more than 2 yards". You haters really need to quit it with the myth spreading.

You don't get rep for stupid dancing by doing it one time. I don't mind his ass dancing in endzone as long as its not in worst home loss in history.

Beantown Bronco
12-02-2012, 09:46 AM
You don't get rep for stupid dancing by doing it one time.

Please. It's a Mane specialty.

Heyneck
12-02-2012, 10:12 AM
You don't get rep for stupid dancing by doing it one time. I don't mind his ass dancing in endzone as long as its not in worst home loss in history.

Why not? It's still a game, one that only KM seem to care for. The team folded after the first qtr. Why take offense by a player showing passion for what he is doing while the rest of the team is sulking up thinking probably about the next season? I would be way more offended by the attitude of the rest of the team that that of KM like somebody else stated in this thread.

errand
12-02-2012, 10:52 AM
Elway in th SB and and KM getting a first down?

Both were 45 point losses clown....only one was on the biggest stage in the world.

I'd argue that losing 55-10 in the SB is worse than getting beat 59-14 at home in a regular season game....only Broncos and Raiders fans remember that raping.....but the entire NFL watching world remembers the SB stomping.

steeledude
12-02-2012, 03:50 PM
Hey guys just got in to watch the game--how is Moreno looking today?

The Joker
12-02-2012, 04:00 PM
Hey guys just got in to watch the game--how is Moreno looking today?

He's doing fine in my opinion.

As long as he doesn't fumble the ball and can pick up over 4 yards a carry that's more than good enough, keep the defenses honest and hopefully give Manning some opportunities of play action.

We haven't missed McGahee at all so far IMO, which has been a very pleasant surprise to me.

Drunken.Broncoholic
12-02-2012, 04:14 PM
Hey guys just got in to watch the game--how is Moreno looking today?

He lost a shoe early.

Nwp-Apap
12-02-2012, 04:24 PM
He did well today, especially when you consider he ran against the #1 rush defense in terms of both total yardage, and YPC.

errand
12-02-2012, 04:42 PM
He did well today, especially when you consider he ran against the #1 rush defense in terms of both total yardage, and YPC.

20 carries for 69 yards 3.5 avg......and had 14 yards receiving too. 83 total yards...not bad considering the Bucs D played pretty damn good for most of the game.

R8R H8R
12-02-2012, 04:49 PM
Moreno did exactly what we needed him to do. Despite the dropped pass, lost shoe, and the occasional dance, he put his head down, didn't fumble, and got some tough yards against an excellent run defense.

As long as he can stay healthy, I will have no worries going forward.

razorwire77
12-02-2012, 04:49 PM
Moreno earned another start. Was he great? No. However he ran hard between the tackles, kept his pad level low and grinded out some tough yards. He also had a nice 3rd down catch from a seated position, one of the better individual efforts of the day. The kid just doesn't have dynamic abilities in space or above average acceleration and he probably never will; but we've gotta keep going with him. He's basically Sammy Winder only with better hands. I do think that they need to get Hillman more than 5 touches, but once again you saw Manning grabbing him by the arm and rag dolling him around so he knew where to line up.

Drek
12-03-2012, 03:05 AM
20 carries for 69 yards 3.5 avg......and had 14 yards receiving too. 83 total yards...not bad considering the Bucs D played pretty damn good for most of the game.

And that includes 5 carries for 4 yards when we were basically just running out the clock and Tampa's D was ready to stop the run on every play. He would have met his 4.2-4.3 YPC average if it wasn't for the junk time stats.

He's doing his job on the ground, grinding out positive yardage. He's solid in pass pro and makes a great escape valve for Manning. We'll have to see if the consistent playing time he should receive going forward will be enough for the light to fully click on and for him to break some bigger games.

2KBack
12-03-2012, 05:07 AM
And that includes 5 carries for 4 yards when we were basically just running out the clock and Tampa's D was ready to stop the run on every play. He would have met his 4.2-4.3 YPC average if it wasn't for the junk time stats.

He's doing his job on the ground, grinding out positive yardage. He's solid in pass pro and makes a great escape valve for Manning. We'll have to see if the consistent playing time he should receive going forward will be enough for the light to fully click on and for him to break some bigger games.

If the middle of our O-line wasn't so Charmin soft, All the RB's would look much better. There was a defensive player in the backfield on at least half the attempted runs.

rmsanger
12-03-2012, 05:59 AM
He looks ok! Nothing special and certainly not a former first rounder. He may be on the level of Mark Ingram when all said and done.

Drek
12-03-2012, 06:06 AM
He looks ok! Nothing special and certainly not a former first rounder. He may be on the level of Mark Ingram when all said and done.

You mean former first rounder Mark Ingram?

If the middle of our O-line wasn't so Charmin soft, All the RB's would look much better. There was a defensive player in the backfield on at least half the attempted runs.

Is what it is, the OL is still overall pretty young and Kuper is still likely not 100%. The fact is, they pass block damn well and that is more important.

Moreno right now is doing exactly what he's supposed to with our OL. Minimize losses when the OL does allow a jailbreak into the backfield and take the openings you're given for consistent positive yardage. Other than that step up in pass pro when needed and keep at it on every other pass play as Manning's safety net.

I think there is a good chance we're going to see Moreno only get stronger with more time as the starter. Tampa Bay has an outstanding front seven when it comes to stopping the run and Moreno was respectable against them all day. There's a big game waiting in the wings if he stays healthy and keeps up his new found focus. I'm just hoping we see it in a game that counts, not against the Raiders or Browns.

Beantown Bronco
12-03-2012, 06:16 AM
Other than that step up in pass pro when needed and keep at it on every other pass play as Manning's safety net.


This is something that the haters will never acknowledge. They'll make fun of every little thing that happens once a game when he runs the ball (loses a shoe or trips), but will never give credit for his blitz pickup and protection. He did A TON of this yesterday. I lost count of how many times he absolutely stoned guys coming free at Manning from completely the other side of where Moreno was lined up. He recognizes every blitz and always picks up the right guy. You can't put a price tag on that, especially with our QB.

Drek
12-03-2012, 06:22 AM
This is something that the haters will never acknowledge. They'll make fun of every little thing that happens once a game when he runs the ball (loses a shoe or trips), but will never give credit for his blitz pickup and protection. He did A TON of this yesterday. I lost count of how many times he absolutely stoned guys coming free at Manning from completely the other side of where Moreno was lined up. He recognizes every blitz and always picks up the right guy. You can't put a price tag on that, especially with our QB.

The extra weight he's put on over the course of 2011 and 2012 has definitely helped there. Moreno used to always make the right reads but would occasionally just get overwhelmed by a LB. Now he's a bit bigger and is a lot tougher when setting a block.

2KBack
12-03-2012, 06:49 AM
Mark Ingram wishes he was on Moreno's level in the pros. Moreno will have almost tripled Ingram's production in their first two seasons.

baja
12-03-2012, 08:00 AM
This is something that the haters will never acknowledge. They'll make fun of every little thing that happens once a game when he runs the ball (loses a shoe or trips), but will never give credit for his blitz pickup and protection. He did A TON of this yesterday. I lost count of how many times he absolutely stoned guys coming free at Manning from completely the other side of where Moreno was lined up. He recognizes every blitz and always picks up the right guy. You can't put a price tag on that, especially with our QB.

The whole slipping and loosing a shoe thing would seem easy to fix by wearing high top shoes with different cleats.

Heyneck
12-03-2012, 08:03 AM
The extra weight he's put on over the course of 2011 and 2012 has definitely helped there. Moreno used to always make the right reads but would occasionally just get overwhelmed by a LB. Now he's a bit bigger and is a lot tougher when setting a block.

Don't worry about it dude. People will come around and realize Moreno is heavily involved in the game plan and producing. He hasn't gotten back to back 20 carry games by mistake. How many of those did Willis have this year in all his starts? 3 in 11 games.Let them think about that for a second.

Beantown Bronco
12-03-2012, 08:04 AM
The whole slipping and loosing a shoe thing would seem easy to fix by wearing high top shoes with different cleats.

It's got to be a personal comfort thing. Some guys, like Eddie Mac, needed to wear shoes that were 2-3 sizes too small or he didn't feel right. Knowshon for whatever personal reason clearly prefers shoes that fit on the looser side.

baja
12-03-2012, 08:10 AM
It's got to be a personal comfort thing. Some guys, like Eddie Mac, needed to wear shoes that were 2-3 sizes too small or he didn't feel right. Knowshon for whatever personal reason clearly prefers shoes that fit on the looser side.

The Bronco trainers should really have him consult with a shoe expert. Obviously the slips are costly but so are the losing the shoe thing. He has to come out for a play sometimes at inopportune times to reshoe.

Personal preference is fine but when it starts to cost production it needs to be changed.

Requiem
12-03-2012, 08:14 AM
Maybe you guys should just change what kind of shoes he wears on Madden. I go with a high cut Nike on my left foot, a low cut generic on my right. :)