Liberals are stingy cheap selfish godless people

[cutthemdown]

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1#.ULIJWK6Bz0Q


It turns out that this idea that liberals give more…is a myth. Of the top 25 states where people give an above average percent of their income, 24 were red states in the last presidential election.

Arthur Brooks, the author of "Who Really Cares," says that "when you look at the data, it turns out the conservatives give about 30 percent more." He adds, "And incidentally, conservative-headed families make slightly less money."

And he says the differences in giving goes beyond money, pointing out that conservatives are 18 percent more likely to donate blood. He says this difference is not about politics, but about the different way conservatives and liberals view government.




Liberals = always unhappy because they look to govt to legislate utopia. Just think how much it would mean to poor if all the rich liberals and middle class liberals were willing to give like the conservatives.

[Requiem]

You are clueless.

[Rohirrim]

Boy. This one comes up every year, doesn't it?

But conservatives are ignoring the obvious. Something to notice is in the mention of "tithing... to the church." All the survey did was take IRS data "showing the value of charitable deductions claimed by Americans taxpayers." What the IRS may mean by charitable, and what most people think of as charitable, may not be the same thing.

For instance, a local fundamentalist church may spend the bulk of its resources degrading and attacking other faiths, insulting gay people and leading crusades to strip people of their civil liberties. They may never feed the hungry, clothe the naked, or comfort the afflicted. Yet in IRS terms they are a charity no matter how uncharitable they may be.

The report states that the IRS "does not provide data about the specific charities people supported." In other words, there is no data about who is feeding the poor, as Donahue claims.

Since donations to religious groups, even uncharitable ones, count as "charitable giving," then it is no surprise that religious people give more to charity. Simply put, the study shows that non-religious people don't donate to religion. This is neither earth shattering nor particularly informative. Nor is it surprising that those states populated by sects that push their members to tithe report higher "charitable" giving.

Donations to churches may get reused in a manner that would not be tax-deductible itself, as it would not be considered charitable. For instance, donations to the Knights of Columbus, a Catholic organization, are tax-deductible. Yet the organization gave almost $2 million to fund anti-gay campaigns by the National Organization for Marriage. If the "charitable" Catholics who gave that money had directly donated it to NOM, they would never have received a tax write-off.

However, if you donated to the Human Rights Campaign to counter campaigns funded by the Knights, that donation "can not be classified as tax deductible." Only one funds given to the churches in this political campaign were counted as charitable.

It is not surprising that the most "giving" state is Utah, with a heavy population of Mormons who are required to give 10% of their income to the sect. Their total charitable giving is 10.6% of discretionary income -- a substantial portion of which has to be going to the church as opposed to purely charitable purposes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-peron/conservatives-charitable-giving_b_1835201.html

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Another ironic thread title from another cheerleader for the party of Scrooge.

[orinjkrush]

liberals tend to be arrogant know-it-alls who've never met an idea they didn't like.

conservatives tend to be arrogant better-than-yous who believe they are morally superior to the rest of humanity.

pick your poison.

[cutthemdown]

This study did a lot more then use IRS data Rohlialot. Read it conservatives give more to non religious charities also. This study looked at all sorts of ways to measure how people give money. Not just tax deductions.

[cutthemdown]

Meanwhile the party of scrooge will be out helping kids get food and presents on xmas while the rich liberals figure out ways to get the govt to help more people.

[barryr]

The liberals are always eager to donate other people's money.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Conservatives are always eager to donate other people's money to rich people.

Fixed. :wave:

[lonestar]

The liberals are always eager to donate other people's money.

:thumbs:

I note two things. Liberals quote huffington post a lot, must be their bible and beleive that HP is not biased at all. ahahahahahaha

And I'll bet cartoon boi is going be busy in this thread.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

:thumbs:

I note two things. Liberals quote huffington post a lot, must be their bible and beleive that HP is not biased at all. ahahahahahaha

And I'll bet cartoon boi is going be busy in this thread.

Because the sources upon which you and your fellow regressives rely have WAY better track records for accuracy and journalistic integrity.

Romney landslide, anyone?

L0L! Ha!

[cutthemdown]

Now that people are all riled up I will say that i don't really believe this. Conservatives probably give more money but I think Liberals get out and do a lot of charity.

When I did habitat for humanity tons were liberals. Lot's in the music business, even just the local bands in cities and towns do all sorts of fundraisers. Most of my friends in music are pretty liberal. My keyboard player is a big conservative and he is very charitable, but he is pretty well off.

But the one thing in all this BS that was most funny is how any charity done through a religion liberals don't want to call charity. Cmon the church does a ton of good. Sure they want you to become a christian, but that doesn't mean its not charity. As long as someone who needs help gets some, that is charity and its a good thing.

My bands doing a toys for tots gig in a few weeks so Santa will be good to me I know it. Also we are doing a Wounded Warriors charity shindig for the Newport Beach Rotary Club. Extrememly excited about that one. It could maybe raise 75 grand.

HEY LABF I THOUGHT YOU IGNORED ME WHAT ARE YOU DOIN IN MY THREAD?

[lonestar]

Now that people are all riled up I will say that i don't really believe this. Conservatives probably give more money but I think Liberals get out and do a lot of charity.

When I did habitat for humanity tons were liberals. Lot's in the music business, even just the local bands in cities and towns do all sorts of fundraisers. Most of my friends in music are pretty liberal. My keyboard player is a big conservative and he is very charitable, but he is pretty well off.

But the one thing in all this BS that was most funny is how any charity done through a religion liberals don't want to call charity. Cmon the church does a ton of good. Sure they want you to become a christian, but that doesn't mean its not charity. As long as someone who needs help gets some, that is charity and its a good thing.

My bands doing a toys for tots gig in a few weeks so Santa will be good to me I know it. Also we are doing a Wounded Warriors charity shindig for the Newport Beach Rotary Club. Extrememly excited about that one. It could maybe raise 75 grand.

HEY LABF I THOUGHT YOU IGNORED ME WHAT ARE YOU DOIN IN MY THREAD?
My church does a lot of outreachs within the local as well as across the border. It also helps to support a Christain school with many getting scholarships.

So while I give to my church I also know how much is given back.

I'm not sure how much I have given to the local battered women's shelter not only in donations in household goods and clothing, but also in cash. Will figure it out come tax time.

Adios

[Arkie]

There are two types of motivation for giving: 1) it simply makes us feel good, or 2) we would rather not give but can't say no due to social pressure.

I think the first type of motivation is spread evenly across all the states. The second type is more common in the red states.

[DenverBrit]

Now that people are all riled up I will say that i don't really believe this. Conservatives probably give more money but I think Liberals get out and do a lot of charity.

When I did habitat for humanity tons were liberals. Lot's in the music business, even just the local bands in cities and towns do all sorts of fundraisers. Most of my friends in music are pretty liberal. My keyboard player is a big conservative and he is very charitable, but he is pretty well off.

But the one thing in all this BS that was most funny is how any charity done through a religion liberals don't want to call charity. Cmon the church does a ton of good. Sure they want you to become a christian, but that doesn't mean its not charity. As long as someone who needs help gets some, that is charity and its a good thing.

My bands doing a toys for tots gig in a few weeks so Santa will be good to me I know it. Also we are doing a Wounded Warriors charity shindig for the Newport Beach Rotary Club. Extrememly excited about that one. It could maybe raise 75 grand.

HEY LABF I THOUGHT YOU IGNORED ME WHAT ARE YOU DOIN IN MY THREAD?

They sure do. The Catholic Church are estimated as giving a whopping 2.7% of their received donations to charity. 2.7%??

And this grants them 100% tax free status on the other 97.3% estimated at $170 billion!

If Church's want tax free status, then they must open their books and show that 100% is spent charitably, or lose the tax free status. The taxpayer ends up footing the bill.

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/2012/08/articles/body/20120818_fbc986.png
The Economist estimates that annual spending by the church and entities owned by the church was around $170 billion in 2010 (the church does not release such figures). We think 57% of this goes on health-care networks, followed by 28% on colleges, with parish and diocesan day-to-day operations accounting for just 6% and national charitable activities just 2.7% (see chart). In total, Catholic institutions employ over 1m people, reckons Fred Gluck, a former McKinsey managing partner and co-founder of the National Leadership Roundtable on Church Management, a lay organisation seeking to improve the way the church is run. For purposes of secular comparison, in 2010 General Electric’s revenue was $150 billion and Walmart employed roughly 2m people.

The molestation and rape of children by priests in America has resulted in more than $3.3 billion of settlements over the past 15 years, $1.3 billion of that in California. The total is likely to increase as more states follow California and Delaware in relaxing the statute of limitations on these crimes, most of which were reported long after they happened. For an organisation with revenues of $170 billion that might seem manageable. But settlements are made by individual dioceses and religious orders, whose pockets are less deep than those of the church as a whole.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/08/17/the-economist-estimates-the-catholic-church-spent-171600000000-in-2010/

[lonestar]

I note that 98 billion was spent on hospitals. You do not see that as charity work? How many folks would not have been seen and saved/fixed without them.

Same goes for colleges. how many scholarships not given out withit them.

Sounds to me that your more hung up with religion than taxes.

[cutthemdown]

Oh really Brit? They have to? When does that start? When do they lose their tax free status? Or is this just Denverbritland you are dreaming of?

[DenverBrit]

I note that 98 billion was spent on hospitals. You do not see that as charity work? How many folks would not have been seen and saved/fixed without them.

Same goes for colleges. how many scholarships not given out withit them.

Sounds to me that your more hung up with religion than taxes.

Both, when combined in secret and for the benefit of the religion, not for community as a whole. When Churches spend donated money on denominational activities, why should the taxpayer foot the bill?

[DenverBrit]

Oh really Brit? They have to? When does that start? When do they lose their tax free status? Or is this just Denverbritland you are dreaming of?

No, it's when common sense takes over and Televangelists and snake oil salesmen lose their tax free status. As should any organization that refuses to open their books while claiming tax free status.

[DenverBrit]

Taxpayers Pay for Televangelists' Lavish Lifestyles
Churches Damaged by Lack of Oversight and Disclosures

Private jets. Million dollar vacation homes. Luxury cars. If the CEO of your favorite charity was enjoying these perks, you would probably be outraged and never donate to it again. Fortunately, the IRS requires most charities to file financial statements that show they are spending the public's money for charitable purposes, not private gain. This financial disclosure is the cornerstone of wise giving. Without it, the public would have no idea how charities are spending donor money.

Churches*, synagogues, and mosques, however, do not have to follow these same rules. They do not have to file annual reports with the IRS or state charity regulators, which allows them to avoid being rated by AIP. They do not even have to notify the IRS when they form. They receive the same tax benefits as other charities-including tax-exempt status and the ability to accept tax-deductible contributions-with none of the reporting obligations or oversight.

Call for Reform
At AIP, we strongly believe that the time has come for reform. In 1943, Congress exempted churches from the requirement to file annual returns. This made sense at the time, when churches were generally smaller and only solicited their local congregations. However, in an age when mega-churches can solicit millions of people across the globe, reach the size of large corporations, and award over-the-top benefits to their ministers, this kind of regulation is clearly outdated. It is AIP's belief that, at minimum, churches that broadly solicit the public for contributions should be on the same accountability playing field as secular nonprofits and not dole out excessive benefits to their officials and their families. These new requirements should not be viewed as a threat to churches, but rather as a means to protect them from false accusations and rumors. Hiding information from the public arouses suspicion and damages trust. Greater transparency would improve the operations of religious organizations and boost their credibility.
http://www.charitywatch.org/articles/Televangelists_Lack_Oversight.html

[lonestar]

Both, when combined in secret and for the benefit of the religion, not for community as a whole. When Churches spend donated money on denominational activities, why should the taxpayer foot the bill?

the tax payers are not footing the bill..

What bill are you taking about?

if you do not like people of functions of faith that seems to be your issue..

has the church in this case Catholic spent "hush" money, sure why not it is not like folks did not need to money to help get over issues..

not different than if someone slips and falls on private property, some one was injured and needs to be made whole..

[lonestar]

Taxpayers Pay for Televangelists' Lavish Lifestyles
Churches Damaged by Lack of Oversight and Disclosures



Call for Reform

http://www.charitywatch.org/articles/Televangelists_Lack_Oversight.html

still sounds like you have a hang up with anything religious.

you can get FREE consoling with/from most clergy..

[DenverBrit]

the tax payers are not footing the bill..

What bill are you taking about?

if you do not like people of functions of faith that seems to be your issue..

has the church in this case Catholic spent "hush" money, sure why not it is not like folks did not need to money to help get over issues..

not different than if someone slips and falls on private property, some one was injured and needs to be made whole..

Of course they are.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

well i do know the dont believe in god thing is quite true of the libbys i met here i think its 70% dont believe. ie LABF not a fan of religion couple of others me i am not a fan of tv evangelist F those crooks should be thrown in jail . blah blah we need money . gee jesus never begged conned people for money now did he nor did he shun anyone seeking him . not even the Romans who wanted to nail him literately . btw he wanted to like die .something about dying to save humanity

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

no goverment keep ya hands off of the church they should be mostly tax exempt . maybe when it isnt 100% church related then i guess you can tax em like if a priest buys a car for personal use he has to pay taxes or buys something from WALMART otherwise keep ya paws off of it as long as the money goes for up keep of the church property and HELPING THE POOR!
NOT BUYING THAT 32 INCH HI DEF TV WITH DIRECT DISH 100 CHANNEL PACKAGE.
if they was doing that confiscate that stuff hold a raffle and give it away to the winner

[DenverBrit]

still sounds like you have a hang up with anything religious.

you can get FREE consoling with/from most clergy..

So asking that Churches, enjoying tax free status, be treated the same way as charities...ie, Red Cross means I have a "hangup with anything religious"?

You seem overly defensive. What is it you're concerned about if Churches file financials like every other organization??

What is it that you disagree with in this statement?

It is AIP's belief that, at minimum, churches that broadly solicit the public for contributions should be on the same accountability playing field as secular nonprofits

[DenverBrit]

still sounds like you have a hang up with anything religious.

you can get FREE consoling with/from most clergy..

So I've read. Ha!

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

:thumbs:

I note two things. Liberals quote huffington post a lot, must be their bible and beleive that HP is not biased at all. ahahahahahaha

And I'll bet cartoon boi is going be busy in this thread.

no cartoons from him yet think he is trying to kick the habit just a smiley face and snarky remarks is all.
ie im like retarded and stupid and dumb so i sorta took a whole lot of facepalm gif and posted them thats all the reply you need to give to him is facepalms and this too


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1ytCEuuW2_A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cutthemdown]

What about unions Denverbrit, should they be tax exempt?

[lonestar]

Of course they are.

how? are taxpayers footing the bill?

[lonestar]

no cartoons from him yet think he is trying to kick the habit just a smiley face and snarky remarks is all.
ie im like retarded and stupid and dumb so i sorta took a whole lot of facepalm gif and posted them thats all the reply you need to give to him is facepalms and this too




do you think I may have gotten his juvenile attention?..

Hey I love good political humor like the next guy but his one liners, calling names, potshots as well as the cartoons has him on IGGY.. once a punk always a punk..

[DenverBrit]

What about unions Denverbrit, should they be tax exempt?

If they are not engaged in 'charitable' work, no. Lobbying is not charitable work.

And that should apply to any organization claiming tax free status.

[DenverBrit]

how? are taxpayers footing the bill?

Really?

Ok, when a church buys real property and takes it off the tax roles, who makes up the shortfall? Santa Clause?

When they receive donations and use them to feed the hungry or house the homeless, they are shouldering the burden that would otherwise fall to the tax payer.

Go it?

Again, why do you object to Churches being held to the same criteria as other tax free entities??

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

do you think I may have gotten his juvenile attention?..

Hey I love good political humor like the next guy but his one liners, calling names, potshots as well as the cartoons has him on IGGY.. once a punk always a punk..

whatever the lil dweeb has to say dont affect me .
why would i ignore the idiot .
all he does is make himself look even dumber like nitpicking me because i accidentally double posted.
he shure has alot of hang ups.
oh he insulted me i will go cry now : ( : : : :

[lonestar]

Really?

Ok, when a church buys real property and takes it off the tax roles, who makes up the shortfall? Santa Clause?

When they receive donations and use them to feed the hungry or house the homeless, they are shouldering the burden that would otherwise fall to the tax payer.

Go it?

Again, why do you object to Churches being held to the same criteria as other tax free entities??


WOW taxes on real estate do you honestly think that would fix the deficit?

NO because real estate is a state or local function..

IF this country was like europe with tiny houses and almost zero yard then YOU might have something to piss and moan about..

but and in particular most states outside of the north east land is plentiful and there is little or no need to tax the acreage that church sit on.. waht else could they build there a shopping mall?

by the way your second comment hilited kind of blows up your own argument..

do you get it?

[lonestar]

whatever the lil dweeb has to say dont affect me .
why would i ignore the idiot .
all he does is make himself look even dumber like nitpicking me because i accidentally double posted.
he shure has alot of hang ups.
oh he insulted me i will go cry now : ( : : : :

like the one liners and cartoons are any different..

[DenverBrit]

WOW taxes on real estate do you honestly think that would fix the deficit?

NO because real estate is a state or local function..

IF this country was like europe with tiny houses and almost zero yard then YOU might have something to piss and moan about..

but and in particular most states outside of the north east land is plentiful and there is little or no need to tax the acreage that church sit on.. waht else could they build there a shopping mall?

by the way your second comment hilited kind of blows up your own argument..

do you get it?

How so?? It was an example of what IS charitable and tax exempt. Too complex for you?

And you keep avoiding and deflecting my question: Why are you against Churches filing financials like all other tax free entities?? What are you afraid of??

Here's a little news item that further illustrates the real estate tax issue.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ny6NNUZCaY8?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Requiem]

Be like Germany. Affiliated with a church? Tax their ass. :)

[lonestar]

How so?? It was an example of what IS charitable and tax exempt. Too complex for you?

And you keep avoiding and deflecting my question: Why are you against Churches filing financials like all other tax free entities?? What are you afraid of??

Here's a little news item that further illustrates the real estate tax issue.


Sorry it sounds like envy or hate of religion to me.. go ahead have a woody for churches I could care less.

I do not see the issue..

[DenverBrit]

Sorry it sounds like envy or hate of religion to me.. go ahead have a woody for churches I could care less.

I do not see the issue..


Obviously.

[cutthemdown]

I doubt churches are to blame for the poor economy but keep searching for someone to blame I guess. I like the idea of taxing unions though because they do very little charity. Churches i could go with a property tax once their holdings go over some certain amount. I am ignorant to what that amount would be to make sure no small churches got hit. But some of these mega churches are a joke IMO. The Catholic church? Well there is a reason why protestants left for the New World right? Comparing small protestant churches to the Catholics is a reach IMO.

But I love the idea of having a property tax on chruches that are outrageous. Maybe do a grandfather clause for some really old ones and go after the new money.

But also then i want unions to pay tax on the dues they collect as a trade off. Then anything that is true charity is tax exempt.

[ghwk]

whatever the lil dweeb has to say dont affect me .
why would i ignore the idiot .
all he does is make himself look even dumber like nitpicking me because i accidentally double posted.
he shure has alot of hang ups.
oh he insulted me i will go cry now : ( : : : :

Your thread titles suck balls.

[Fedaykin]

They sure do. The Catholic Church are estimated as giving a whopping 2.7% of their received donations to charity. 2.7%?? [/IMG]

In their defense, gold plated castles are not cheap!

[Fedaykin]

I doubt churches are to blame for the poor economy but keep searching for someone to blame I guess. I like the idea of taxing unions though because they do very little charity. Churches i could go with a property tax once their holdings go over some certain amount. I am ignorant to what that amount would be to make sure no small churches got hit. But some of these mega churches are a joke IMO. The Catholic church? Well there is a reason why protestants left for the New World right? Comparing small protestant churches to the Catholics is a reach IMO.

But I love the idea of having a property tax on chruches that are outrageous. Maybe do a grandfather clause for some really old ones and go after the new money.

But also then i want unions to pay tax on the dues they collect as a trade off. Then anything that is true charity is tax exempt.

All churches should be taxed as a for profit business until they meet the same requirements as any other tax exempt organization. Open books being the biggie.

It's as simple as that.

[cutthemdown]

All churches should be taxed as a for profit business until they meet the same requirements as any other tax exempt organization. Open books being the biggie.

It's as simple as that.

Good luck with that.

[cutthemdown]

All churches should be taxed as a for profit business until they meet the same requirements as any other tax exempt organization. Open books being the biggie.

It's as simple as that.

So you are saying no entity double checks a churches tax exempt status? Look i agree with you on most of this. If a church can afford 120 million dollars worth of real estate they can afford to pay some tax.

I think unlike you I woould like it set really high so only huge mega churches got hit.

I don't know though i am asking. Is there any govt agency that checks up on churches. If not i am starting a church that worships weed and getting to growing. it's the new bubble! seriously though what could churches be doing that you feel takes away tax exempt status?

If you say they can't do a political commercial that opens up a can of worms for secular charities as well. I would go along with they can't directly contribute to a politician without paying a tax, but they can run their own commercial on a point they want to make. Not sure we can take away free speach for them legally. I'm not stringent with religion but I do believe in god and go often. I actually think all the religions same god and part of the test is figuring that out. Whatever though the point is taxes.

Many charities get involed in politics. Are you sure Churches are the worst of them?

[lonestar]

Not so sure that once you make a change in the tax laws on JUST going after the biggie church's that it does not slide downs slippery slope as greedy lawmakers want more.

Few if any churches get involved in politics from the pulpit. No public poruncements I have ever heard if anything they stay 180 depress away from it. They could lose the tax exempt status for doing so.

[cutthemdown]

Lonestar if the tradeoff was taxing unions on the dues they collect and property they own I would go for it.

[Fedaykin]

So you are saying no entity double checks a churches tax exempt status? Look i agree with you on most of this. If a church can afford 120 million dollars worth of real estate they can afford to pay some tax.

I think unlike you I woould like it set really high so only huge mega churches got hit.

I don't know though i am asking. Is there any govt agency that checks up on churches. If not i am starting a church that worships weed and getting to growing. it's the new bubble! seriously though what could churches be doing that you feel takes away tax exempt status?

If you say they can't do a political commercial that opens up a can of worms for secular charities as well. I would go along with they can't directly contribute to a politician without paying a tax, but they can run their own commercial on a point they want to make. Not sure we can take away free speach for them legally. I'm not stringent with religion but I do believe in god and go often. I actually think all the religions same god and part of the test is figuring that out. Whatever though the point is taxes.

Many charities get involed in politics. Are you sure Churches are the worst of them?


You seem confused and desperate to create a strawman. I'm simply saying that religious organizations that want non-profit status should be held to the exact same standard as any other organization that enjoys non-profit status. No more, no less.

[cutthemdown]

You seem confused and desperate to create a strawman. I'm simply saying that religious organizations that want non-profit status should be held to the exact same standard as any other organization that enjoys non-profit status. No more, no less.

And I'm asking are you sure they aren't already? i'm saying i don't know who makes sure non profits are non profits. I imagine the IRS and that churches and other non profits already use the same guidlines.

I'm not trying to set you up.

[Fedaykin]

And I'm asking are you sure they aren't already? i'm saying i don't know who makes sure non profits are non profits. I imagine the IRS and that churches and other non profits already use the same guidlines.

I'm not trying to set you up.

Religious organizations are not held to the same standard. They get automatic tax-exempt status, their operations are (by default and easily "justified" as) non-profit as a whole (whereas other organizations have to explicitly demonstrate compliance for everything they do -- an organization can be part for-profit and part not), and the IRS has significantly less oversight power compared with other non-profits.

Do you know how many business ventures the Mormon Church has that are completely commercial but tax exempt because they are "part of the church"?

[DenverBrit]

And I'm asking are you sure they aren't already? i'm saying i don't know who makes sure non profits are non profits. I imagine the IRS and that churches and other non profits already use the same guidlines.

I'm not trying to set you up.

No one knows. Religious organizations are not subject to scrutiny, audit or any other fiscal reporting, unlike every other tax free organization.

That's exactly how Televangelists and other freak shows are able to spend as freely as they wish, without accountability. They all need to open their books.

Because religious organizations are not accountable to the citizens who subsidize them. If churches engage in charitable work that benefits the community, do all citizens have an interest in supporting such endeavors with, say, various tax exemptions? Of course. This is the sound basis for tax exemptions for non-profit organizations, whose activities and finances are subject to IRS audit and public scrutiny. In the case of religious organizations, however, the books are closed.

http://taxthechurches.org/

[Fedaykin]

Cutt: Can you justify the tax-exempt status of the multi-billion dollar shopping mall owned by the LDS in SLC?

[cutthemdown]

Cutt: Can you justify the tax-exempt status of the multi-billion dollar shopping mall owned by the LDS in SLC?

I don't know. What do they use the profits for? It's what the profits used for that matters. I agree 100% if they use money to lobby politics that should be taxed. Same for unions.

But just like a thrift store, if your store uses profits for charity you shouldnt be taxed regardless of how big the store is.

[Fedaykin]

I don't know. What do they use the profits for? It's what the profits used for that matters. I agree 100% if they use money to lobby politics that should be taxed. Same for unions.

But just like a thrift store, if your store uses profits for charity you shouldnt be taxed regardless of how big the store is.

No one knows, because unlike other non-profits, they aren't required to disclose that information.

Is this sinking in for you yet?

[houghtam]

No one knows, because unlike other non-profits, they aren't required to disclose that information.

Is this sinking in for you yet?

*crickets*

[cutthemdown]

No one knows, because unlike other non-profits, they aren't required to disclose that information.

Is this sinking in for you yet?

IMO congregations will keep the church leadership in line but i can agree there is abuse going on. I would have no problem with churches having to have books checked tighter. i doubt you find enough to make it worth it though. Regardless of what you think churches really do spend all that money they get on the church, to run it, and give it away to charity.

I can't believe liberals think this is a huge problem.

But if someone showed me that by sicking IRS on them we will find so much graft it makes it all pay off I would go along with that. I do believe though 99.9% of churches are non profits and not rip offs like a few on TV, the Crystal Cathederal etc etc.

On the flip side should unions be tax exempt? I would love to hear all your thoughts on that.

[cutthemdown]

I can say with confidence churches do more charity then unions. Disagree with that?

[houghtam]

On the flip side should unions be tax exempt? I would love to hear all your thoughts on that.

No organization that engages in political endorsements and action should be tax exempt. Period.

I can say with confidence churches do more charity then unions. Disagree with that?

And I can say with confidence unions do a lot more for workers' rights than churches. They are two different types of organizations with two very different purposes. What exactly is your point?

[Arkie]

No one knows. Religious organizations are not subject to scrutiny, audit or any other fiscal reporting, unlike every other tax free organization.

That's exactly how Televangelists and other freak shows are able to spend as freely as they wish, without accountability. They all need to open their books.



http://taxthechurches.org/

Similar to the Federal Reserve

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

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[Spider]

I can say with confidence churches do more charity then unions. Disagree with that?

moron ... this fails on so many levels

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

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[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

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but millionaires pay you to work .even less if your a illegal migrant landscaper or pool cleaner but they still pay you therefore i see your cartoon boy and raise you this
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[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/defense-WelfareQueens.jpg

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unless the us gov ie Obama is over paying them ie gold toilet seats 500 buck hammers. which is uber stupid also Caribbean trips on tax payers dollars are also wasteful i dont care R or D in your name pay for your own trip idiots

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

but millionaires pay you to work .even less if your a illegal migrant landscaper or pool cleaner but they still pay you therefore i see your cartoon boy and raise you this
>

Trotting out the old "job creators" myth again, eh? ::)

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

is there a study or some fact that says churches do more than unions i never thought unions did charity dont associate them with that just with mobsters , strikes contributing to political parties with D with employees union dues nor would i be happy if they donated to R .
those people work hard for their money why do they take it

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Trotting out the old "job creators" myth again, eh? ::)

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gee isnt the guy in charge of target kinda rich how about sears ,jc pennys pappa johns, dominoes, burger king, Wendys , subway, foleys, ford ,chevy ,Toyota , kohls ,safeway ,krogers ,walmart , kfc ,walgreens ,directv ,dish , tnt fox, abc, nbc,cbs, yellow cab , united airlines ,greyhound , country buffet, dennys, cosco, sams, nabisco, lays, tom, little debbie , marvel comics ,dc comics , att ,boost mobile , denver broncos ,nfl , pepsi, coke, doller tree, family dollar . just to name a few are all run by people who are rich millionaires i aint sure . i assume they are since they pay out more than a million .
now tell me how many poor people run stores poor as in too poor to pay any tax what so ever not counting sales tax, poor as in poverty as a added bonus you also get this

http://cdn.epicski.com/1/1c/1000x500px-LL-1c63b5c4_picard-facepalm.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

^

Still believing the fairy tale that says tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires "stimulate the economy and create jobs" despite all evidence to the contrary, eh?

That's insane. :crazy:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/2_biggest-lies.jpg

[Spider]

is there a study or some fact that says churches do more than unions i never thought unions did charity dont associate them with that just with mobsters , strikes contributing to political parties with D with employees union dues nor would i be happy if they donated to R .
those people work hard for their money why do they take it

unions shouldnt be in the charity business nor should they be tax exempt ....churches that are politically active shouldnt be either

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

unions shouldnt be in the charity business nor should they be tax exempt ....churches that are politically active shouldnt be either

well thats a good point would you include this guys church

http://whitehouse2012.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/jeremiahwright.jpg
would there be some sort of speech monitor in every church ?
shall we implant bugs in said churches?
what about if the government tried to oh say make something a church dont believe in mandatory for said church to do ?
how would one enforce speech control in churches ?
should presidents be banned from attending ?
should churches or more accurately religious org run hospitals ?
if a church a. said Obama is super awesome do they get a pass ?
church b says Obama is awful do they get penalized ?
now if said churches religious orgs are donating giving money to Democrats ,Republicans IND any political org then no they should be disqualified to be tax exempt.
money they collect is supposed to go to upkeep of the building and property the priest or revs what have you who preach shouldnt take money to live like kings. just money to pay for a modest living .
also they should help those in need

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

and dont get me started on tv evangelist they are lowest of the scum, im talking about the ones who live like kings and basically sell snake oil. i do not like those who lie cheat and steal from poor people by saying give me xx amount and you go to heaven
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[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

...im talking about the ones who live like kings and basically sell snake oil.

Can't believe you're talking this way about the folks whose interests are your top priority.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Can't believe you're talking this way about the folks whose interests are your top priority.

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[Requiem]

Give it a rest, Dan.

[Arkie]

http://www.bartcop.com/defense-WelfareQueens.jpg

That must be the combined total. It's still a lot of wasteful spending. Lockheed got 11 billion. The food stamp program got 78 billion. Spending has increased on military contracts and food stamps for decades. We need to reform both.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Give it a rest, Dan.

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[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

wasteful gov spending say it isnt so. and who been the president for the last 4years about to get 4 more . can someone tell me?
so LABF dont go spouting off over wasteful spending when you got a democrat in charge who can pass universal one size fits all because i say so president but cant cut wasteful spending

[Requiem]

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[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

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i see you jerry and raise you this hell spawn abomination
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/530738_10150689896910816_1255253390_n.jpg

[Spider]

dont give a damn what side of the islethe church is on ...good ****ing grief are we really to the point of seperating right and left churches