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View Full Version : Who has more fantasy upside? Ball or Hillman?


Pontius Pirate
11-21-2012, 11:52 AM
Not asking who is the better player - I'm curious who you think has the potential to score more points while McGahee is out. I guess part of your answer will depend on how you think they'll be used. I.e. Hillman as 1st & 2nd down and Ball as 3rd down, pass-catching, and goal-line?

Some data:

Ball: 3.8 YPC on 25 ATT. 94 yds rushing, 61 yds rec., 1 TD & 1 fumble
Hillman: 3.8 YPC on 49 ATT. 188 yds rushing, 62 yds rec., 1 TD & 1 fumble

FOR FRODO!!!!

Bronco Yoda
11-21-2012, 11:54 AM
Hillman

Br0nc0Buster
11-21-2012, 11:54 AM
Hillman

Even though he is small Denver was not afraid to use him in the redzone against Carolina

MplsBronco
11-21-2012, 12:05 PM
For some reason, I think Moreno takes over McGahee's role and Hillman/Ball maintain the same role they do currently. Unless of course Moreno poops the bed. Moreno has shown a knack for the endzone so I think he is going to surprise some people. I've also noticed him alot on the sidelines and he seemed engaged in the games althoug being in street clothes. He was jawing with a Charger in the last game so I think he is chomping at the bit to get going.

Old Dude
11-21-2012, 12:12 PM
I voted Ball and here's why.

By all accounts Hillman is an inferior blocker when it comes to backfield protection for the QB. He never had to do it in college and he's not the most physical guy around in any event.

No one in their right mind is going to voluntarily leave Manning with subpar protection.

So when Hillman's on the field, you can bet he's either going to be carrying the ball or going out as a receiver.

That alone doesn't hurt his fantasy output but what does hurt is that it limits his time in the game, because, as a general rule, the offense is going to want to keep the D guessing. In other words, he's a roleplayer/specialist.

And that means that Ball should see a lot more action as the every-down back. That includes red zone situations. That includes audibles, where Manning sees a good prospective running lane.

The big X factor is Moreno. He could wind up taking away playing time from either of them or both, dpending on how he responds.

razorwire77
11-21-2012, 12:15 PM
Hillman.

DenverBroncosJM
11-21-2012, 02:06 PM
I think Moreno

2KBack
11-21-2012, 02:12 PM
I would say Moreno purely because I think he is the redzone back....Although I do think he is the most effective back we have healthy. I just doubt he will get a ton of carries immediately

Smiling Assassin27
11-21-2012, 02:16 PM
Ball. Trust factor makes Ball the guy that will be on the field more.

Mat'hir Uth Gan
11-21-2012, 02:20 PM
Well, in my Vegas money league, I passed on both Hillman and Ball for Moreno. Some of that was because I wanted to spend my top claim on upgrading another position, but the rest was because I don't have any faith in Hillman or Ball (or a platoon thereof) to be clear cut and consistent enough to be fantasy relevant. However, if Moreno plays like he can, he could be, and with the powderpuff run defense schedule in the playoffs, I rolled the dice on him.

Requiem
11-21-2012, 02:22 PM
Moreno.

gyldenlove
11-21-2012, 02:34 PM
Hillman and it is not close. Ball is a special teamer and situational 3rd down guy, he won't be more than that. As it stands I would expect Moreno to get the shot at carrying the load before they make Ball the every down guy.

mwill07
11-21-2012, 02:45 PM
For some reason, I think Moreno takes over McGahee's role and Hillman/Ball maintain the same role they do currently. Unless of course Moreno poops the bed. Moreno has shown a knack for the endzone so I think he is going to surprise some people. I've also noticed him alot on the sidelines and he seemed engaged in the games althoug being in street clothes. He was jawing with a Charger in the last game so I think he is chomping at the bit to get going.

+1

Rabb
11-21-2012, 02:57 PM
http://boston.3432.voxcdn.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/2/files/2010/02/boner2.jpg

Natedogg
11-21-2012, 03:06 PM
moreno

Bacchus
11-21-2012, 04:30 PM
Upside obviously that would be Hillman since Ball has been in the league awhile. I want to see them activate Jeremiah Johnson, Dammit!!

Irish Stout
11-21-2012, 06:34 PM
Hillman. Moreno, even if he plays (I think he'll be third string if not still a healthy scratch), he is not immediately going to get the carries he would have had being the #1. He might earn them after a week or two, but not right away.

errand
11-21-2012, 06:42 PM
Upside obviously that would be Hillman since Ball has been in the league awhile. I want to see them activate Jeremiah Johnson, Dammit!!

Not trying to be an ass...but what is so special about Johnson that makes some of you want him to be on the field....what has he done to earn being on the field?

fwf
11-21-2012, 07:27 PM
Idk fellas, our running game is between the tackles. Klis said we lined up in the 3 wide set on every play in the first half last week. Ive seen a large enough sample of Hillman to know that aint his game.
If McCoy wants to switch it up then maybe, but if its status quo then Ball has to be the best bet, but I wouldnt lose a waiver spot for any of them.

I have a feeling that all 3 are going to get a pretty good look this week. Ball will for sure and Moreno will if we have the lead.

Swedish Extrovert
11-21-2012, 07:46 PM
I understand why people may not think Moreno should be on the list... but I think he takes over McGahee's role.

Bacchus
11-22-2012, 12:06 AM
Not trying to be an ass...but what is so special about Johnson that makes some of you want him to be on the field....what has he done to earn being on the field?

He is on the Practice Squad and has not been given a chance to earn his time on the field. The only thing Hillman has done to earn his time is get drafted in the 3rd round.

That being said I like Johnson because he is by far the fastest RB Denver has. Hillman's 40 time might be similar to JJ but watching them play in the preseason. Johnson is much quicker to his top speed and he hit the holes faster I thought.

I guess I think Johnson is the most dangers RB. He might not break tackles or be elusive, Hillman has not shown these qualities either, but he is fast and can get to top gear very fast.

Now this is my take on what I saw in preseason. I think JJ is more dangerous.

2KBack
11-22-2012, 05:57 AM
He is on the Practice Squad and has not been given a chance to earn his time on the field. The only thing Hillman has done to earn his time is get drafted in the 3rd round.

That being said I like Johnson because he is by far the fastest RB Denver has. Hillman's 40 time might be similar to JJ but watching them play in the preseason. Johnson is much quicker to his top speed and he hit the holes faster I thought.

I guess I think Johnson is the most dangers RB. He might not break tackles or be elusive, Hillman has not shown these qualities either, but he is fast and can get to top gear very fast.

Now this is my take on what I saw in preseason. I think JJ is more dangerous.

4.56 (JJ) not so close to 4.45 (Hillman)

JJ did look decent playing against insurance salesmen and telemarketers

Bacchus
11-22-2012, 06:08 AM
4.56 (JJ) not so close to 4.45 (Hillman)

JJ did look decent playing against insurance salesmen and telemarketers

I did not say that Johnson ran a faster 40. I said he plays faster. He hits to hole faster and gets into the secondary quicker. Hillman has shown me very little this season.

cutthemdown
11-22-2012, 06:18 AM
if someone started Moreno in fantasy and he hit a home run I would have to tip my hat to that prediction. That would be some fantasy gurumanship right there.

I would think picking up that bkup for the Eagles might be better for a one week rent a rb.

fwf
11-22-2012, 06:27 AM
if someone started Moreno in fantasy and he hit a home run I would have to tip my hat to that prediction. That would be some fantasy gurumanship right there.

I would think picking up that bkup for the Eagles might be better for a one week rent a rb.

Is Moreno even in good enough game shape to be an every down guy? Look, hopefully we'll be playing from ahead the next few weeks so we can get a good look at both Ball and Moreno. Hopwfully one will rise to the top. Ive seen enough of Hillman already and he needs another offseason in the gym.

cutthemdown
11-22-2012, 06:35 AM
Is Moreno even in good enough game shape to be an every down guy? Look, hopefully we'll be playing from ahead the next few weeks so we can get a good look at both Ball and Moreno. Hopwfully one will rise to the top. Ive seen enough of Hillman already and he needs another offseason in the gym.

There all in a lot better shape then me. MMMM Turkey today!

Kaylore
11-22-2012, 06:36 AM
I voted the boner option, but I honestly think Ball is going to be the goal line back.

Broncobiv
11-22-2012, 02:56 PM
I already have Hillman on my team (drafted him and held onto him all season). I am thinking of dropping Joique Bell or Donald Brown so I can pick up Moreno, too. This is purely for depth as my starters are Forte and Richardson. But in case one of them goes down, the starting Broncos RB is a good plug-in option.

Do you think it's worth dropping one of my "scrubs" for Moreno just in case he becomes the feature back?

lolcopter
11-22-2012, 07:37 PM
Hillman and it is not close. Ball is a special teamer and situational 3rd down guy, he won't be more than that. As it stands I would expect Moreno to get the shot at carrying the load before they make Ball the every down guy.

This

ZONA
11-22-2012, 07:52 PM
I'll put it this way, neither of them will ever be stud RB's in this league. Hillman is just too small (not short, there are some shorter backs that are physical runners who get it done week to week). He will be, always, a change of pace guy. I just don't understand how you select that type of back as high as we did. I don't know, maybe next year he really hits those weights and can add 10-15 pounds of muscle. Might slow him a tad but if he adds muscle, don't think it will slow him down much, but it sure will help all the other parts of his game.

Ball - he's is what he is. Not super physical, not super fast, doesn't cut super hard, doesn't read blocks super great. Well, he'll just never be super. He is, IMO, an average 2nd option or probably should be that 3rd option at RB.

McGahee is getting older, he's banged up. He's played good, but looking to next year, I think this team needs to draft somebody special at RB, maybe even 1st or 2nd round.

Doggcow
11-22-2012, 08:29 PM
I already have Hillman on my team (drafted him and held onto him all season). I am thinking of dropping Joique Bell or Donald Brown so I can pick up Moreno, too. This is purely for depth as my starters are Forte and Richardson. But in case one of them goes down, the starting Broncos RB is a good plug-in option.

Do you think it's worth dropping one of my "scrubs" for Moreno just in case he becomes the feature back?

Donald Brown is worthless. I'd drop him.

BroncoBuff
11-22-2012, 08:33 PM
Ball. He's the goal-line back anyway, right?

Moreno should be in the poll though ... I think I'd pick him if he was.

Bacchus
11-22-2012, 11:52 PM
Ball. He's the goal-line back anyway, right?

Moreno should be in the poll though ... I think I'd pick him if he was.

If you are talking FF than it is possible that Ball will get the goal line caries which could screw people who have Hillman.

extralife
11-23-2012, 12:21 AM
if you are in a 12+ team league with an open bench spot and absolutely nothing on the wire, Moreno might be an ok add. there is that 1% chance he gets all of McGahee's carries and puts up the same numbers. Ball is not ownable in any league that is remotely standard. just think about it--even if he gets 100% of the goal line carries going forward, would you <i>ever</i> start him? Hillman is probably addable, but I certainly didn't try in either of my leagues.

MileHighMagic
11-23-2012, 07:26 AM
It has got to be Knowshow, simply because he offers upside, albeit very little upside. The physical talent is there; we all just have to hope the time off lit a fire under his ass. You have seen what Hillman and Ball have to offer, which is jack ****. I might vomit if I hear Hillman's 40 time again. He is not NFL fast on the field and in pads, he is not that quick, he has no power and his instincts suck. I know he's just a baby and I truly hope he develops but right now, he is below average.

g6matty
11-23-2012, 07:32 AM
Milehighmagic just roasted Hillman lol. Give him a break he's the youngest player in the league. Cecil lammey was all over him in the draft process. He thinks he has lesean McCoy upside . We wanted rahim moores neck last year just let it play itself out maybe he needs more carries per game to get in a groove

lolcopter
11-23-2012, 09:50 AM
I know hindsight is 20-20 an all, but can you imagine Doug Martin in orange an blue?



WaH waH wah

TonyR
11-23-2012, 10:53 AM
Moreno, even if he plays (I think he'll be third string if not still a healthy scratch)...

Moreno a healthy scratch? You think they'll suit up 2 RB's? I say Moreno starts.

lolcopter
11-23-2012, 11:53 AM
Moreno a healthy scratch? You think they'll suit up 2 RB's? I say Moreno starts.

Based on the fact that he hasn't even suited the last month+

Hillman will get the bulk of the carries

TonyR
11-23-2012, 12:19 PM
Based on the fact that he hasn't even suited the last month+

Hillman will get the bulk of the carries

The Broncos are not going to suit up only 2 RB's. Moreno not suiting up probably had more to do with Ball playing special teams than anything else. Hillman is a change of pace back and isn't ready to get the bulk of the carries.

Nwp-Apap
11-23-2012, 12:35 PM
Moreno

Agamemnon
11-23-2012, 12:43 PM
The Broncos are not going to suit up only 2 RB's. Moreno not suiting up probably had more to do with Ball playing special teams than anything else. Hillman is a change of pace back and isn't ready to get the bulk of the carries.

Hillman will probably never be ready for the bulk of the carries. Dude is just too tiny.

Agamemnon
11-23-2012, 12:45 PM
Milehighmagic just roasted Hillman lol. Give him a break he's the youngest player in the league. Cecil lammey was all over him in the draft process. He thinks he has lesean McCoy upside . We wanted rahim moores neck last year just let it play itself out maybe he needs more carries per game to get in a groove

So far all I've seen is decent speed. I haven't seen him juking and making people miss, and I haven't seen him make plays in the open field. He looks way too much like a smaller, slower Tatum Bell to me. Give him a big hole and he'll get you yards, but otherwise you get nothing.

Bacchus
11-23-2012, 02:23 PM
if you are in a 12+ team league with an open bench spot and absolutely nothing on the wire, Moreno might be an ok add. there is that 1% chance he gets all of McGahee's carries and puts up the same numbers. Ball is not ownable in any league that is remotely standard. just think about it--even if he gets 100% of the goal line carries going forward, would you <i>ever</i> start him? Hillman is probably addable, but I certainly didn't try in either of my leagues.

Well, if Ball got a TD every game from goal line carries he would give you abotu 10 FF points.

DENVERDUI55
11-23-2012, 03:06 PM
Moreno

You love the guy!

extralife
11-23-2012, 03:41 PM
Well, if Ball got a TD every game from goal line carries he would give you abotu 10 FF points.

provided he also got 40 yards, and provided he scored a TD <i>every game</i>. do you know how many RBs are averaging a TD a game this year? that would be one (Foster).

Cito Pelon
11-23-2012, 04:11 PM
I know hindsight is 20-20 an all, but can you imagine Doug Martin in orange an blue?



WaH waH wah

My wahwahwah. Denver trades down twice and ends up with Wolfe, Hillman, Bolden, and Blake.

NE gets Donta Hightower and TB gets Martin.

Agamemnon
11-23-2012, 06:41 PM
My wahwahwah. Denver trades down twice and ends up with Wolfe, Hillman, Bolden, and Blake.

NE gets Donta Hightower and TB gets Martin.

Wolfe has a lot of potential while Hillman has showed me nothing. The other two I can't really judge, other than to say Bolden seems to have Bruton-type ST potential.

I can't lie though, I'd trade them all for Doug Martin.

Nwp-Apap
11-23-2012, 07:06 PM
You love the guy!

Yep, I believe he can be a very successful player in this league, but was drafted into a poor situation and has had some poor luck with injuries. He was drafted into a team with Kyle Orton and one of the poorest OLs in the league. Fast forward to 2012 and couple a huge passing game with a much improved OL and I think we'll see what Moreno is truly capable of; something he has shown flashes of for us and displayed full time at UG, but never fully showed in the pros.

If he stays healthy throughout the season, I believe Moreno may make us miss McGahee less than we should.

Or maybe I just like to be optimistic.

Cito Pelon
11-23-2012, 08:42 PM
Yep, I believe he can be a very successful player in this league, but was drafted into a poor situation and has had some poor luck with injuries. He was drafted into a team with Kyle Orton and one of the poorest OLs in the league. Fast forward to 2012 and couple a huge passing game with a much improved OL and I think we'll see what Moreno is truly capable of; something he has shown flashes of for us and displayed full time at UG, but never fully showed in the pros.

If he stays healthy throughout the season, I believe Moreno may make us miss McGahee less than we should.

Or maybe I just like to be optimistic.

Moreno has tons of skill, but he's never put together more than 5-6 consecutive games on the field. If he doesn't get it done here with this chance, he'll get another chance somewhere else. I hope he puts it together here, we need production from the tailbacks.

Cito Pelon
11-23-2012, 08:58 PM
Wolfe has a lot of potential while Hillman has showed me nothing. The other two I can't really judge, other than to say Bolden seems to have Bruton-type ST potential.

I can't lie though, I'd trade them all for Doug Martin.

Wolfe will be a factor for a long time on the DL, he's a keeper. Hillman, who knows. I've seen small backs like him get going for a couple years after their rookie year. Denver needs to acquire some tailbacks next year that's for sure.

Action
11-23-2012, 09:03 PM
running backs are dime a dozen... while dlineman are hard to find.

If Wolfe pans out, he's much more valuable than an RB.

DENVERDUI55
11-24-2012, 07:48 AM
Yep, I believe he can be a very successful player in this league, but was drafted into a poor situation and has had some poor luck with injuries. He was drafted into a team with Kyle Orton and one of the poorest OLs in the league. Fast forward to 2012 and couple a huge passing game with a much improved OL and I think we'll see what Moreno is truly capable of; something he has shown flashes of for us and displayed full time at UG, but never fully showed in the pros.

If he stays healthy throughout the season, I believe Moreno may make us miss McGahee less than we should.

Or maybe I just like to be optimistic.

Except he is indecisive and slow. He is running behind the same line that he did before minus Franklin. Willis was able to run behind that line when teams knew Denver was going to run. The OL isn't great at run blocking but the reason they look good now is the scrub QBs are gone.