PDA

View Full Version : Woman denied abortion dies in agony in Hospital


Bronco Yoda
11-16-2012, 12:38 AM
http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-india-abortion-ireland-savita-20121115,0,3031709.story


http://jezebel.com/5960385/woman-denied-abortion-dies-in-hospital

"Her husband, Praveen Halappanavar says she asked several times over a three-day period that the pregnancy be terminated. He says that, having been told she was miscarrying, and after one day in severe pain, Ms Halappanavar asked for a medical termination.

This was refused, he says, because the foetal heartbeat was still present and they were told, "this is a Catholic country".

Even though Halappanavar, a Hindu, was emphatic that she was neither Irish nor Catholic, and even though she developed shakes and shivering and was vomiting." ...

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2013, 10:21 AM
http://www.bartcop.com/gop-dummies-primer.jpg

nyuk nyuk
08-15-2013, 12:06 PM
You move to a place where you hate their views and expect them to bend their will to you? Brilliant. Deliciously arrogant.

Smiling Assassin27
08-16-2013, 07:56 AM
An inquest concluded that she did not die from lack of abortion. But listen to a distraught husband rather than expert medical doctors.

Rohirrim
08-16-2013, 08:21 AM
You move to a place where you hate their views and expect them to bend their will to you? Brilliant. Deliciously arrogant.

Yeah. She had it coming.

Your enjoyment is ghoulish.

BroncoBeavis
08-16-2013, 09:23 AM
An inquest concluded that she did not die from lack of abortion. But listen to a distraught husband rather than expert medical doctors.

Vaccination gave Jenny McCarthy's kid autism. Just ask her.

DenverBrit
08-16-2013, 10:56 AM
An inquest concluded that she did not die from lack of abortion. But listen to a distraught husband rather than expert medical doctors.

It's not that simple. Ireland has seen this play out before and despite the Irish Courts ruling decades ago, Catholic dogma still costs lives by preventing abortions when the mother's life is in danger.

Ireland's Supreme Court in 1992 ruled that abortion should be permitted when a woman's life is at risk (Reuters, 11/16). However, successive governments have failed to pass legislation to clarify the ruling (Pogatchnik, AP/Miami Herald, 11/15). In 2010, the European Court of Human Rights ordered Ireland to specify what the Supreme Court's ruling means in practice (Reuters, 11/16).

Peter Boylan of the Irish Institute of Obstetricians and Gynecologists said that the current situation makes physicians reluctant to take action when women's lives are threatened because they fear prosecution. "If we do something with a good intention, but it turns out to be illegal, the consequences are extremely serious for medical practitioners," he said (AP/Miami Herald, 11/15).

http://go.nationalpartnership.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=36721&news_iv_ctrl=0&abbr=daily2_

In this case, the inquest did cite septicemia, or blood poisoning. However, the cause of the infection was most likely the fetus. She may well still be alive were it not for the intended law being ignored.

"I don't do abortions, I'll tell you right now. ... But I'd have to tell the mother, 'Your baby doesn't have a chance and to save your life, I have to do this,'" said Dr. John Coppes, the medical director at Austin Medical Center-Mayo Health System in Minnesota.

Coppes, who has never met Halappanavar, said that when a woman's water, or amniotic sac, breaks during early pregnancy, she is at risk for infection because the barrier between the baby and the outside world is broken. The fetus's environment is also no longer sterile, putting it at risk for "horrible malformations."

Coppes said the fact that Halappanavar's husband reported she was ill and vomiting suggested a serious infection had set in, and it's possible that it spread to her blood, resulting the septicemia that killed her. When asked how long it takes for an infection in the uterus to spread to the blood, Coppes said it can vary.

"Let's put it this way, the clock starts ticking when the membrane ruptures," he said. "It can be pretty fast. That's why you don't sit and watch."

When an infection occurs in a pregnant woman's uterus, Dr. Kimberly Gecsi, an obstetrician at University Hospitals in Cleveland, said the only way to treat it is to terminate the pregnancy.

"Antibiotics are part of the process, but once an infection develops inside the uterus, antibiotics alone aren't going to treat the infection," Gecsi said. "The infection will continue until the products of pregnancy are removed, either by natural procedure or with surgical procedure."
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/irish-abortion-denial-death-preventable-doctors/story?id=17720871

DenverBrit
08-16-2013, 10:58 AM
You move to a place where you hate their views and expect them to bend their will to you? Brilliant. Deliciously arrogant.

WTF is wrong with you??

TonyR
08-16-2013, 11:18 AM
Apparently there are only two states left in the country, Colorado and Florida, that still have individual Doctors providing late-term abortions. The anti-abortion movement has pretty much run the rest of them out of business (or, you know, murdered them). Sounds okay (except perhaps the murder part) until you realize that sometimes a late term procedure is needed for the health or safety of the mother or an unborn twin, and in those cases people have very limited options. It's the kind of thing almost nobody considers in their anti-abortion fervor. The link below details one such story.

http://www.pajiba.com/think_pieces/a-valentines-day-miracle-tale-of-monoamniotic-twins-and-averted-heartbreak.php

BroncoBeavis
08-16-2013, 12:10 PM
Apparently there are only two states left in the country, Colorado and Florida, that still have individual Doctors providing late-term abortions. The anti-abortion movement has pretty much run the rest of them out of business (or, you know, murdered them). Sounds okay (except perhaps the murder part) until you realize that sometimes a late term procedure is needed for the health or safety of the mother or an unborn twin, and in those cases people have very limited options. It's the kind of thing almost nobody considers in their anti-abortion fervor. The link below details one such story.

http://www.pajiba.com/think_pieces/a-valentines-day-miracle-tale-of-monoamniotic-twins-and-averted-heartbreak.php

The biggest limitation on Abortion providers, by far, is that most qualified health care professionals don't want to do them.

nyuk nyuk
08-16-2013, 09:22 PM
Yeah. She had it coming.

Your enjoyment is ghoulish.

You seem intent on displaying your low IQ.

If I don't want the medical care given by Islamic law, then I don't live in a Muslim country. This is not rocket science.

nyuk nyuk
08-16-2013, 09:22 PM
The biggest limitation on Abortion providers, by far, is that most qualified health care professionals don't want to do them.

How dare they exercise their right to practice as they choose!

nyuk nyuk
08-16-2013, 09:23 PM
An inquest concluded that she did not die from lack of abortion. But listen to a distraught husband rather than expert medical doctors.

Never let science nor a court of law stop the media from hyping the scandal of the moment. They're white, they're Christian. Perfect.

pricejj
08-16-2013, 09:30 PM
Apparently there are only two states left in the country, Colorado and Florida, that still have individual Doctors providing late-term abortions. The anti-abortion movement has pretty much run the rest of them out of business (or, you know, murdered them).

37 of 50 U.S. States allow abortion after 24 weeks.

The only other countries IN THE WORLD that allow (non-special) abortion after 24 weeks are China and Canada.

But, by all means, keep pushing that agenda.

pricejj
08-16-2013, 09:32 PM
The United States is only one of four countries in the entire world which allows abortions to be performed so late, and for any reason. You read that right. We are one of four out of 196 countries in this world.

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/08/04/u-s-is-one-of-four-nations-to-allow-late-term-abortions-for-any-reason/

pricejj
08-16-2013, 09:40 PM
Never let facts get in the way of your baby-killing agenda TonyR.


71% of U.S. Citizens believe that abortion should generally be illegal in the 2nd Trimester (week 13), which would fit right in with 99% of the rest of the world.


Get a freaking clue, dude. You are so far out of touch with reality that it's not even funny.

Rohirrim
08-17-2013, 05:49 AM
You seem intent on displaying your low IQ.

If I don't want the medical care given by Islamic law, then I don't live in a Muslim country. This is not rocket science.

Take glee in your judgment of others. That's what you seem to excel at.

houghtam
08-17-2013, 06:09 AM
Cool so what people in other countries think is important now? Great! Lets discuss the death penalty, paid maternity leave, health care and number of paid vacation days.

Oh, you only brought up global opinion because it suited your argument?

Gotcha.

DenverBrit
08-17-2013, 06:58 AM
How dare they exercise their right to practice as they choose!

They choose to allow abortions......now, after decades of politicians ignoring the Irish Supreme court and another needless death. How dare they!!

Ireland Enacts Law Providing For Abortion, A First

by
July 30, 2013 2:26 PM

Ireland now has its first law making abortion legal in the country under specific conditions, after President Michael D. Higgins signed the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013 into law Tuesday........

.......The legislation comes after an incident last fall, when as The Irish Times' John Waters says, "a woman died in hospital in Galway as a result, it was said, of a failure to give her an abortion when she requested one and when this would've saved her life."

That incident, which came to be known as the Halappanavar case after the late Savita Halappanavar, "caused a huge controversy which drew attention to the lack of clarity in the law and most politicians preferred not to have to deal with," Waters told NPR's Rachel Martin on .

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/07/30/206994541/ireland-enacts-law-providing-for-abortion-a-first

Arkie
08-17-2013, 07:23 AM
Cool so what people in other countries think is important now? Great! Lets discuss the death penalty, paid maternity leave, health care and number of paid vacation days.

Oh, you only brought up global opinion because it suited your argument?

Gotcha.

No he also brought up U.S. opinion at 71% which is lower than the rest of the world. That's why this Irish incident is probably a bigger news item in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world.

edit: except India and Ireland, the countries directly related to this story

houghtam
08-17-2013, 08:16 AM
No he also brought up U.S. opinion at 71% which is lower than the rest of the world. That's why this Irish incident is probably a bigger news item in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world.

edit: except India and Ireland, the countries directly related to this story

Got it, so when 71% of people think one way we should bend to their wishes. Is this what you are saying?

Arkie
08-17-2013, 08:35 AM
Got it, so when 71% of people think one way we should bend to their wishes. Is this what you are saying?

No, but it's worth discussion even though we've bent to the wishes of lower percentages on other issues.

pricejj
08-17-2013, 08:48 AM
Cool so what people in other countries think is important now?

I understand this is a REAL contentious issue. Maybe you are one of the people who has been convinced that unrestricted abortion should generally be legal. I don't know how you could be convinced of that, but there are a lot of things people do which I don't understand.


1. The U.S. is one of the FEW places in the entire world that you can legally get a general abortion after the 13 weeks.
2. Only 21% of U.S. adults believe in general abortion after 13 weeks.

pricejj
08-17-2013, 08:55 AM
Got it, so when 71% of people think one way we should bend to their wishes. Is this what you are saying?

Who is we? You and a few of your buddies? U.S. law abortion law is WAY out of whack according to the vast majority of American people, and 99% of the rest of the countries in the world.

It is truly amazing how some of you have been utterly convinced that killing people with drone strikes and unrestrictive abortion is somehow ok.

Some of you can be convinced of anything through mass marketing. Then you can be compelled to vote on your conviction through mass marketing. Then you go on public forums like this one, and promote killing like it's 2nd nature, without batting an eyelash. It's frightening.

nyuk nyuk
08-17-2013, 09:02 AM
No he also brought up U.S. opinion at 71% which is lower than the rest of the world. That's why this Irish incident is probably a bigger news item in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world.

edit: except India and Ireland, the countries directly related to this story

Stories like this are only going to get real air time in the West, where the left has its suffocating paws on a large portion of the mainstream media. The liberal media enjoy airing sensational stories specifically about their pet causes, and this is one of them.

Pet cause journalism. YEAH! :egbgb:

TonyR
08-17-2013, 09:04 AM
37 of 50 U.S. States allow abortion after 24 weeks.

...

But, by all means, keep pushing that agenda.

How does this contradict anything I said? And what is my "agenda"?

TonyR
08-17-2013, 09:07 AM
Never let facts get in the way of your baby-killing agenda TonyR.


71% of U.S. Citizens believe that abortion should generally be illegal in the 2nd Trimester (week 13), which would fit right in with 99% of the rest of the world.


Get a freaking clue, dude. You are so far out of touch with reality that it's not even funny.

What facts are "getting in my way"? How does any of this change the point of my post, that when women do need an emergency late term procedure that they have very limited options?

What clue don't I have? Where/how am I "out of touch with reality"? I'm the one pointing out a reality you never considered. I'm well aware of the "realities" you're posting. So I think you have this all exactly backwards.

nyuk nyuk
08-17-2013, 09:09 AM
They choose to allow abortions......now, after decades of politicians ignoring the Irish Supreme court and another needless death. How dare they!!

Ireland Enacts Law Providing For Abortion, A First

by
July 30, 2013 2:26 PM

Ireland now has its first law making abortion legal in the country under specific conditions, after President Michael D. Higgins signed the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013 into law Tuesday........

.......The legislation comes after an incident last fall, when as The Irish Times' John Waters says, "a woman died in hospital in Galway as a result, it was said, of a failure to give her an abortion when she requested one and when this would've saved her life."

That incident, which came to be known as the Halappanavar case after the late Savita Halappanavar, "caused a huge controversy which drew attention to the lack of clarity in the law and most politicians preferred not to have to deal with," Waters told NPR's Rachel Martin on .

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/07/30/206994541/ireland-enacts-law-providing-for-abortion-a-first

Context! In that post I was referring to doctors in the US who choose on their free will to not participate in abortions.

This sounds like a classic malpractice suit more than anything else, unless you think mismanagement of sepsis has something to do with one's religion?

nyuk nyuk
08-17-2013, 09:10 AM
WTF is wrong with you??

Nothing at all. I was making an accurate appraisal of the state of modern mass migration.

houghtam
08-17-2013, 09:13 AM
I understand this is a REAL contentious issue. Maybe you are one of the people who has been convinced that unrestricted abortion should generally be legal. I don't know how you could be convinced of that, but there are a lot of things people do which I don't understand.


1. The U.S. is one of the FEW places in the entire world that you can legally get a general abortion after the 13 weeks.
2. Only 21% of U.S. adults believe in general abortion after 13 weeks.

Nope, I've actually been quite vocal about banning abortion in ALL instances (except the ones most commonly discussed). However, until you're willing to address the reasons why people get abortions, it's pointless to talk about banning it, because it won't actually reduce the number of abortions one bit.

Meanwhile, since you bring up an issue and state that both international and US opinion on the matter is important, let's acknowledge US and global opinion on other things, such as:

- The US is one of 4 countries including Lesotho, Swaziland and Papua New Guinea that do not offer paid maternity leave. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/04/maternity-leave-paid-parental-leave-_n_2617284.html

- The US is the only developed country in the western hemisphere that still uses the death penalty. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/abolitionist-and-retentionist-countries

- The US is one of the few developed countries in the western hemisphere that does not offer universal healthcare. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/heres-a-map-of-the-countries-that-provide-universal-health-care-americas-still-not-on-it/259153/

- The US is the only developed country that does not gauranteed paid vacation days. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/27/america-is-the-only-rich-country-that-doesnt-guarantee-paid-vacation-or-holidays/

So spare me your "we're not in line with the rest of the world" BS. There are plenty of areas where the US isn't in line with the rest of the world, and you and yours are perfectly fine looking the other way.

nyuk nyuk
08-17-2013, 09:15 AM
Take glee in your judgment of others. That's what you seem to excel at.

You and yours have judged and attacked me nearly endlessly since I got here, accusing me of being some man in Texas as well as a closeted homosexual and now all of a sudden you recoil with a tear and an ouchie because I hurt your feelers after you put weird words in my mouth attributing to me an idea which I did not express which is that this woman "asked for it"?!

Do I need to buy dictionaries for you people? You clearly don't know what judging is. Hint: You're doing it. You have been.

Yougottabekiddinme.

TonyR
08-17-2013, 09:17 AM
^ Prepare for pricejj's rage filled, spittle flecked response which addresses none of what you said.

Arkie
08-17-2013, 09:18 AM
Nothing at all. I was making an accurate appraisal of the state of modern mass migration.

At first, I thought you made a good point. There are other places worse than Ireland. We could make a long list of countries and why we wouldn't want to move to them. Taking a closer look, Ireland isn't to blame for this death. They legalized abortions 20 years ago when the mother's life is threatened. This is just a case of a single hospital being negligent.

houghtam
08-17-2013, 09:18 AM
^ Prepare for pricejj's rage filled, spittle flecked response which addresses none of what you said.

I got two words for him:

Jared Crick.

LOL

DenverBrit
08-17-2013, 09:19 AM
Nothing at all. I was making an accurate appraisal of the state of modern mass migration.

Of course you were, it's just a coincidence that this thread is about a professional couple working in Ireland. Uhh

You move to a place where you hate their views and expect them to bend their will to you? Brilliant. Deliciously arrogant.

nyuk nyuk
08-17-2013, 09:23 AM
Of course you were, it's just a coincidence that this thread is about a professional couple working in Ireland. Uhh

And? If I don't like Muslim views and the way they run their government and hospitals, guess what? I'm not going to move to a Muslim country.

However I tend to think this case wasn't so much about religion as it was good old fashioned medical malpractice.

DenverBrit
08-17-2013, 09:24 AM
At first, I thought you made a good point. There are other places worse than Ireland. We could make a long list of countries and why we wouldn't want to move to them. Taking a closer look, Ireland isn't to blame for this death. They legalized abortions 20 years ago when the mother's life is threatened. This is just a case of a single hospital being negligent.

The Supreme Court ruled 20 years ago, but no laws were enacted until this year, AFTER this woman's death.

nyuk nyuk
08-17-2013, 09:24 AM
At first, I thought you made a good point. There are other places worse than Ireland. We could make a long list of countries and why we wouldn't want to move to them. Taking a closer look, Ireland isn't to blame for this death. They legalized abortions 20 years ago when the mother's life is threatened. This is just a case of a single hospital being negligent.

I looked up on the results of the investigation of this case and I agree. I suspect this is another case of pet cause liberal media spinning this issue into both one of abortion, anti-Christian hysteria, and alleged racism. It doesn't surprise me, it's pretty standard fare anymore.

They found that the hospital mismanaged treatment for her sepsis. Sepsis has nothing to do with race or religion, but the usual group of angry frothing idiots will see the spin on this and use it as evidence for their already in place hostile view.

houghtam
08-17-2013, 09:26 AM
And? If I don't like Muslim views and the way they run their government and hospitals, guess what? I'm not going to move to a Muslim country.

However I tend to think this case wasn't so much about religion as it was good old fashioned medical malpractice.

Then why did you bring up religion in the first place?

You do an awful lot of "but I'm not talking about X" after you've already conveniently talked about X and want to change the subject on this site.

nyuk nyuk
08-17-2013, 09:26 AM
The Supreme Court ruled 20 years ago, but no laws were enacted until this year, AFTER this woman's death.

It doesn't mean those laws were in play here. What does this have to do with their mismanagement of her sepsis? We have specific sepsis protocols where I work; one for ICU patients and another for non-ICU. Perhaps they don't have a standardized protocol at this place?

DenverBrit
08-17-2013, 09:27 AM
And? If I don't like Muslim views and the way they run their government and hospitals, guess what? I'm not going to move to a Muslim country.

However I tend to think this case wasn't so much about religion as it was good old fashioned medical malpractice.

Then you need to read about Ireland and its long standing Catholic opposition to abortion, that until this year, outlawed ALL abortion. Too late to help this woman, who couldn't possibly have anticipated this medical emergency when she agreed to work in Ireland.

nyuk nyuk
08-17-2013, 09:27 AM
Then why did you bring up religion in the first place?

You do an awful lot of "but I'm not talking about X" after you've already conveniently talked about X and want to change the subject on this site.

I didn't bring it up. The people who are taking the angle of what the journalist said about it did. How is that me? I'm not allowed to comment on something someone else says? Is this a new thing here?

nyuk nyuk
08-17-2013, 09:29 AM
Then you need to read about Ireland and its long standing Catholic opposition to abortion, that until this year, outlawed ALL abortion. Too late to help this woman, who couldn't possibly have anticipated this medical emergency when she agreed to work in Ireland.

I already know that, hun. I did look.

DenverBrit
08-17-2013, 09:29 AM
It doesn't mean those laws were in play here. What does this have to do with their mismanagement of her sepsis? We have specific sepsis protocols where I work; one for ICU patients and another for non-ICU. Perhaps they don't have a standardized protocol at this place?

If you read the medical comments I posted about this case, it's quite clear.

DenverBrit
08-17-2013, 09:30 AM
I already know that, hun. I did look.

And yet you think Religion (Catholicism) isn't involved?

houghtam
08-17-2013, 09:32 AM
I didn't bring it up. The people who are taking the angle of what the journalist said about it did. How is that me? I'm not allowed to comment on something someone else says? Is this a new thing here?

The third post in this thread (your first) wasn't about religion?

The eleventh post in this thread (your second) wasn't about religion?

The twelfth post in this thread (your third) wasn't about religion?

The thirteenth post in this thread (your fourth) wasn't about religion?

Like I said, you do an awful lot of "I'm talking about X, now let's not talk about X" on this site.

pricejj
08-17-2013, 10:01 AM
Nope, I've actually been quite vocal about banning abortion in ALL instances (except the ones most commonly discussed). However, until you're willing to address the reasons why people get abortions, it's pointless to talk about banning it, because it won't actually reduce the number of abortions one bit.


Nobody is talking about banning abortion except you. If you are "allegedly" so against 2nd term abortion, why do you only vote for people in favor of it?

Why question "bending" your will to changing abortion laws? Something doesn't line up with what you publicly say.


^ Prepare for pricejj's rage filled, spittle flecked response which addresses none of what you said.

Go insult somebody else, man.

houghtam
08-17-2013, 10:04 AM
Why question "bending" your will to changing abortion?

It's called the Madisonian Dilemma. Look it up.

pricejj
08-17-2013, 10:40 AM
It's called the Madisonian Dilemma. Look it up.

Reconciling majority rule with individual rights?

I have no doubt that the majority will reconcile individual civil rights eventually or the system won't last. Natural law will prevail, it always does.


Those who oppose all fail miserably, they always have.

houghtam
08-17-2013, 10:43 AM
Reconciling majority rule with individual rights?

I have no doubt that the majority will reconcile individual civil rights eventually or the system won't last. Natural law will prevail, it always does.


Those who oppose all fail miserably, they always have.

And our laws have determined 24-28 weeks as the general rule. Those laws protect the minority from the will of the majority.

nyuk nyuk
08-17-2013, 11:05 AM
If you read the medical comments I posted about this case, it's quite clear.

Not really. What others experience or do doesn't mean THESE people in THIS case did. They medically mismanaged her top to bottom and this is being ignored in pursuit of a religious angle.

houghtam
08-17-2013, 11:14 AM
Not really. What others experience or do doesn't mean THESE people in THIS case did. They medically mismanaged her top to bottom and this is being ignored in pursuit of a religious angle by me.

FYP

pricejj
08-17-2013, 11:14 AM
How does this contradict anything I said? And what is my "agenda"?

You were complaining about lack of ability for women to find abortions in the U.S., when in fact the U.S. has the most liberal abortion laws in the world,
Except for China, where they only allow you to have 1 child, which encourages people to kill baby girls.

Good luck finding a doctor anywhere in the world who is going to abort a baby as late as you would have them. They don't want to be psychologically scarred for life. Would you do it? I don't think so.

Plus, when a woman is having complications during child birth (if I understand the OP correctly), and doctors are forced to operate, it's called a cesarian, not an abortion. Your premise is all wrong.

And our laws have determined 24-28 weeks as the general rule. Those laws protect the minority from the will of the majority.


Allowing a small segment of the population to kill their babies whenever they feel like, doesn't "protect" anybodies individual rights, no matter how much you try to twist it.

houghtam
08-17-2013, 11:17 AM
Allowing a small segment of the population to kill their babies whenever they feel like, doesn't "protect" anybodies individual rights, no matter how much you try to twist it.

Actually, it does, according to the Supreme Court.

You have every right to disagree with it and work to change the law under the legally prescribed means in the Constitution.

Just warning you, though...everyone who has tried to go down that road has failed, and more are failing every day.

If you truly want to actually reduce the number of abortions instead of just paying lip service and pretending you care, you'd do more research into why people get abortions (i.e. not claiming they get them "whenever they feel like"), and then come up with some solutions that will actually fix the problem.

nyuk nyuk
08-17-2013, 11:21 AM
If only liberals were this rabid about naming religion when it comes to Islam! LMAO...

nyuk nyuk
08-17-2013, 11:22 AM
FYP

Very honest of you. Kudos.

pricejj
08-18-2013, 12:17 AM
Actually, it does, according to the Supreme Court.



Right to kill? Never heard of that one.

TonyR
08-18-2013, 07:15 AM
You were complaining about lack of ability for women to find abortions in the U.S., when in fact the U.S. has the most liberal abortion laws in the world,
Except for China, where they only allow you to have 1 child, which encourages people to kill baby girls.

Good luck finding a doctor anywhere in the world who is going to abort a baby as late as you would have them. They don't want to be psychologically scarred for life. Would you do it? I don't think so.

Plus, when a woman is having complications during child birth (if I understand the OP correctly), and doctors are forced to operate, it's called a cesarian, not an abortion. Your premise is all wrong.


You clearly misread my post, and to the extent you did read it you didn't understand it. Try again.

Arkie
08-18-2013, 08:17 AM
Nope, I've actually been quite vocal about banning abortion in ALL instances (except the ones most commonly discussed). However, until you're willing to address the reasons why people get abortions, it's pointless to talk about banning it, because it won't actually reduce the number of abortions one bit.

Meanwhile, since you bring up an issue and state that both international and US opinion on the matter is important, let's acknowledge US and global opinion on other things, such as:

- The US is one of 4 countries including Lesotho, Swaziland and Papua New Guinea that do not offer paid maternity leave. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/04/maternity-leave-paid-parental-leave-_n_2617284.html

- The US is the only developed country in the western hemisphere that still uses the death penalty. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/abolitionist-and-retentionist-countries

- The US is one of the few developed countries in the western hemisphere that does not offer universal healthcare. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/heres-a-map-of-the-countries-that-provide-universal-health-care-americas-still-not-on-it/259153/

- The US is the only developed country that does not gauranteed paid vacation days. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/27/america-is-the-only-rich-country-that-doesnt-guarantee-paid-vacation-or-holidays/

So spare me your "we're not in line with the rest of the world" BS. There are plenty of areas where the US isn't in line with the rest of the world, and you and yours are perfectly fine looking the other way.

The U.S. is still the best example of the classical liberal philosophy of our Founders. The world is gaining liberties over time as the U.S. is losing them. So we are all becoming closer in line as we grow towards globalism.

Rohirrim
08-18-2013, 09:41 AM
The U.S. is still the best example of the classical liberal philosophy of our Founders. The world is gaining liberties over time as the U.S. is losing them. So we are all becoming closer in line as we grow towards globalism.

We need to always remember that the Founders lived in the pre-industrial age, the end of the agrarian era.

Dr. Broncenstein
08-19-2013, 06:04 AM
Apparently there are only two states left in the country, Colorado and Florida, that still have individual Doctors providing late-term abortions. The anti-abortion movement has pretty much run the rest of them out of business (or, you know, murdered them). Sounds okay (except perhaps the murder part) until you realize that sometimes a late term procedure is needed for the health or safety of the mother or an unborn twin, and in those cases people have very limited options. It's the kind of thing almost nobody considers in their anti-abortion fervor. The link below details one such story.

http://www.pajiba.com/think_pieces/a-valentines-day-miracle-tale-of-monoamniotic-twins-and-averted-heartbreak.php

Give an example of a valid medical indication for the intrauterine destruction of a viable fetus, instead of terminating pregnancy via induction or Caesarian section.

BroncoBeavis
08-19-2013, 07:11 AM
Give an example of a valid medical indication for the intrauterine destruction of a viable fetus, instead of terminating pregnancy via induction or Caesarian section.

It's always been a crazy idea to me that in cases where a viable baby needs to be removed from the mother for her health, killing it on the way out performs some sort of miraculous healing benefit.

Yes there's a risk in the delivery. But I doubt it's any more of a risk than a late termination already is.