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Bronco Rob
11-15-2012, 09:11 AM
Line protecting Manning at league-leading pace


By EDDIE PELLS (AP National Writer) | The Associated Press – 17 hours ago


ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) -- It's one thing to block for a quarterback. It's quite another when that quarterback is Peyton Manning, the NFL version of a national treasure.

As soon as the Broncos signed Manning in the offseason, the stakes for the Denver offensive linemen rose considerably. For sure, nobody wants to be the guy who gives up a sack, and in this case, nobody wants to be the guy who gives up the hit that could do serious damage to their quarterback's surgically repaired neck.

''I don't know if you can say it's added pressure,'' offensive line coach Dave Magazu said. ''I think they respect the fact of who we have back there. If their job is to protect you as a quarterback back there, I believe they would put forth their best effort.''

So far, all is going well for Manning and his new line.






http://sports.yahoo.com/news/line-protecting-manning-league-leading-220013478--nfl.html

baja
11-15-2012, 09:34 AM
The 2008 team, with Jay Cutler at quarterback, allowed only 12

He might get sacked 12 times in a game with the Bears line. Think he misses Shanny? Bet he does. I thought at the time Shanny was finally turning the corner but that D OMG

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-15-2012, 09:52 AM
But I was told last year that this line was garbage and couldn't protect the QB? Could it be subtracting Walton? Changing QB? PEDs? Contract years? I'm gonna go with changing QBs


That 2008 Line was incredible. Think they were least penalized too. Clady and Harris were monsters

lonestar
11-15-2012, 09:52 AM
Cutlet saved his own bacon much of the time running for his life. It was not because those OL were stellar at all in pass protect. ESP jalopy when they changed briefly to pocket drop back in 06 after kubes left for HOU.

That was a real fubar at best. Think Mikey wanted Jake out so bad after he got his new toy that it was instituted but after seeing that the OL flat was not big enough to power pas block they moved to roll out more often.

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-15-2012, 09:55 AM
Cutlet saved his own bacon much of the time running for his life..


So he's not running for his life in Chicago now? He's running for his life there yet getting sacked way more times than 12 over last couple years

lonestar
11-15-2012, 09:59 AM
But I was told last year that this line was garbage and couldn't protect the QB? Could it be subtracting Walton? Changing QB? PEDs? Contract years? I'm gonna go with changing QBs


That 2008 Line was incredible. Think they were least penalized too. Clady and Harris were monsters

Walton was playing at a very high level when he went down.
You have to remember that first year under Josh their OL coach was crap. The second year they had no offseason under a new scheme.
Nor did he or Beadles have any weight training or direction because of the lockout.

Having a real pro OL coach is huge in the development of young players.

I expect them to be just that much better come next year with yet another year of conditioning and weight training.

Is there a difference between orton /tebow and Manning. Light years.

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-15-2012, 10:02 AM
Walton was playing at a very high level when he went down.
You have to remember that first year under Josh their OL coach was crap. The second year they had no offseason under a new scheme.
Nor did he or Beadles have any weight training or direction because of the lockout.

Having a real pro OL coach is huge in the development of young players.

I expect them to be just that much better come next year with yet another year of conditioning and weight training.

Is there a difference between orton /tebow and Manning. Light years.



They need to make sure this Oline sticks together. Hopefully this doesn't detour Walton's progress. Koppens long in the tooth ya? Will be interesting to see how the clady contract plays out. Being at the top of the league is ammo for his agent

lonestar
11-15-2012, 10:02 AM
Let me add that the longer guys play next to each other the more trust is built up. They no longer have to think what the guy next to him is going to do in each situation, they know and that split second they use to think about it is being used instead to react automatically.

That is huge at the nfl level. Something you could get away with in college because the guy across from you was not at the level they see every game.

baja
11-15-2012, 10:06 AM
Kuper practiced yesterday, limited but did practice.

SleepingTiger
11-15-2012, 10:09 AM
But I was told last year that this line was garbage and couldn't protect the QB? Could it be subtracting Walton? Changing QB? PEDs? Contract years? I'm gonna go with changing QBs


That 2008 Line was incredible. Think they were least penalized too. Clady and Harris were monsters

Wasn't that the year Clady gave up .5 sack and Harris 1 sack. Not to make this a Harris topic, but I thought he was a great pick. It was unfortunate his back problems kept him from having a very good career.

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-15-2012, 10:10 AM
Kuper practiced yesterday, limited but did practice.

Ya that was great to hear. Hopefully they aren't pushing too fast. There's some bad luck with players trying to come back too early

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-15-2012, 10:11 AM
Wasn't that the year Clady gave up .5 sack and Harris 1 sack. Not to make this a Harris topic, but I thought he was a great pick. It was unfortunate his back problems kept him from having a very good career.

Ya he started off great then the injuries started to pile up. Some players bounce back from that others just disappear.

Requiem
11-15-2012, 10:11 AM
The line in 2008 was absolutely spectacular, regardless of what loneturd says.

Requiem
11-15-2012, 10:12 AM
Ya he started off great then the injuries started to pile up. Some players bounce back from that others just disappear.

He had those issues since Notre Dame and was a concern when he came out of Minnesota in High School. It wasn't really surprise. That is why he was a third rounder.

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-15-2012, 10:19 AM
The line in 2008 was absolutely spectacular, regardless of what loneturd says.

Ha! Good to see you posting again

lonestar
11-15-2012, 10:50 AM
So he's not running for his life in Chicago now? He's running for his life there yet getting sacked way more times than 12 over last couple years

But you also have to remember that we had a decent running game in DEN most of the time and that kept the D off balance somewhat.

Cutlet made his own bed being adick and frankly they would have been much wiser to spend those two first rounders on OL guys than that putZ

Drunken.Broncoholic
11-15-2012, 11:00 AM
But you also have to remember that we had a decent running game in DEN most of the time and that kept the D off balance somewhat.

Cutlet made his own bed being adick and frankly they would have been much wiser to spend those two first rounders on OL guys than that putZ

Wasn't our leading rusher only 300 something yards? And we had to hire a cell phone store manager? I think for them to have gone through that many running backs is a testament to how good that line was both pass and run block.

Requiem
11-15-2012, 11:02 AM
Wasn't our leading rusher only 300 something yards? And we had to hire a cell phone store manager? I think for them to have gone through that many running backs is a testament to how good that line was both pass and run block.

Do not pull the wool from his eyes.

broncocalijohn
11-15-2012, 11:03 AM
So Manning has only been sacked 11 times in 9 games but Von Miller has 10 sacks just by himself against our opponents? Boy, that is sweet comparison.

lonestar
11-15-2012, 11:47 AM
Wasn't our leading rusher only 300 something yards? And we had to hire a cell phone store manager? I think for them to have gone through that many running backs is a testament to how good that line was both pass and run block.

IIRC 340 yards. But there were 7 plus RBs that year.

Bacchus
11-15-2012, 11:51 AM
Wasn't that the year Clady gave up .5 sack and Harris 1 sack. Not to make this a Harris topic, but I thought he was a great pick. It was unfortunate his back problems kept him from having a very good career.

I believe Harris is in Houston now. Hopefully he can recover from his back issues but from what i read it seems unlikely and he is a shadow of his former self.

lonestar
11-15-2012, 01:18 PM
They need to make sure this Oline sticks together. Hopefully this doesn't detour Walton's progress. Koppens long in the tooth ya? Will be interesting to see how the clady contract plays out. Being at the top of the league is ammo for his agent

:thumbs:

But not to rain on anyone's parade I do not see them giving Clady the contract he feels and probably would have gotten 5 years ago when OLT were the second most important position on O.

With the advent of the quick passing game, for the most part 3 steps back OR LESS that spot just does not command spending 10mil plus on per year.

Even Franklin as mediocre as he was last year in pass protect has been great this year. So IMO the franchise him, draft an OT in like the second round and move on after a year.
As good as he has been wrapping up 10% or more of your cap for a position that is no longer a premier spot makes no sense dollar wise.

lonestar
11-15-2012, 01:24 PM
I believe Harris is in Houston now. Hopefully he can recover from his back issues but from what i read it seems unlikely and he is a shadow of his former self.

Was pretty sure he was out of football altogether but it seems he just took 11 off. He has had no starts this year.

TonyR
11-15-2012, 02:19 PM
But I was told last year that this line was garbage and couldn't protect the QB?

Teboners being Teboners.

bfoflcommish
11-15-2012, 02:25 PM
it amazing how good an o-line will look when the QB gets rid of the ball in a timely matter and isnt running around everywhere behind LOS when def has eyes on him but oline doesnt.

TonyR
11-15-2012, 02:34 PM
it amazing how good an o-line will look when the QB gets rid of the ball in a timely matter and isnt running around everywhere behind LOS when def has eyes on him but oline doesnt.

Not only that, but making reads and adjusting based on them.

errand
11-15-2012, 02:41 PM
what's funny is many on here act surprised by all of this despite many of us stating these things would happen once Manning signed.

Bronco Yoda
11-15-2012, 02:48 PM
I put this mostly on PM's quick release, timely audibles, smart movement in the pocket.

lonestar
11-15-2012, 02:56 PM
what's funny is many on here act surprised by all of this despite many of us stating these things would happen once Manning signed.

I knew it would happen just not this fast. Getting 8 or 9 other players on the same page this fast is a real testament to how good magu, and Manning are.

errand
11-15-2012, 07:34 PM
I knew it would happen just not this fast. Getting 8 or 9 other players on the same page this fast is a real testament to how good magu, and Manning are.

I'm not shocked at all by how fast he's accomplished this....he led a team that was 1-15 the season before he was drafted to 13-3 in his 2nd season....surely he could help lead an 8-8 team there in one.

KipCorrington25
11-16-2012, 12:07 AM
The elephant in the room, Walton goes down performance goes up...

ozomulsion
11-16-2012, 02:30 PM
Ya that was great to hear. Hopefully they aren't pushing too fast. There's some bad luck with players trying to come back too early

I enjoy your posts, for the most part but when I read this, I asked myself a question. Why in gods name would he or the team let him rush back from injury when Ramirez is highly capable of filling in for how ever long is needed? 0% chance of that happening.

lonestar
11-16-2012, 03:00 PM
I enjoy your posts, for the most part but when I read this, I asked myself a question. Why in gods name would he or the team let him rush back from injury when Ramirez is highly capable of filling in for how ever long is needed? 0% chance of that happening.

All of the sacks this year took place when Manny was on the field. Not saying they were his fault but something was not functioning a normal level when he is in..

Does tha mean that franklin, Koppen or Walton was helping out in protection and their guy got in?

Not sure but something happened. IMO the run game dropped off when Kupes went in. Again something I can not put a finger on but it still seems to have a correlation.

broncosteven
11-16-2012, 05:57 PM
Cutlet saved his own bacon much of the time running for his life. It was not because those OL were stellar at all in pass protect. ESP jalopy when they changed briefly to pocket drop back in 06 after kubes left for HOU.

That was a real fubar at best. Think Mikey wanted Jake out so bad after he got his new toy that it was instituted but after seeing that the OL flat was not big enough to power pas block they moved to roll out more often.

Yes Cutlers mobility helped but the OL was very good that year.

Shanny had to stop calling boots in 2006 because teams learned that Plummer was better outside the pocket than inside it. Pitt kept Jake in the pocket during the AFC championship and other teams used that as a blue print and played boot 1st. Plummers play inside the pocket digressed to the point that he forced Shanny to replace him. His last game as a starter was pathetic on Thanksgiving vs kFc.

The reason Jake had his best years with us was because of Shanny's system.

broncosteven
11-16-2012, 06:02 PM
I put this mostly on PM's quick release, timely audibles, smart movement in the pocket.

I think just getting out of bad plays has helped this year vs last year.

How many times did we see an all out blitz coming last year and Tebow either not allowed to adjust or adjust and end up getting creamed?

1st game this year PM sees Polamalu coming on a blitz and audibles out of it, he totally took Polamalu out of the game.

In order of importance I would go Audibles, moving in the pocket, and then quick release.

Agamemnon
11-16-2012, 06:29 PM
Manning's ability to get rid of the ball is huge, but don't kid yourselves, this o-line is pass-blocking much, much better than last season. Tebow held on to the ball too long sometimes, but that didn't really have anything to do with Beadles, Walton, and Franklin getting beat like drums all the time.

broncosteven
11-16-2012, 08:58 PM
Manning's ability to get rid of the ball is huge, but don't kid yourselves, this o-line is pass-blocking much, much better than last season. Tebow held on to the ball too long sometimes, but that didn't really have anything to do with Beadles, Walton, and Franklin getting beat like drums all the time.

Koppen has upgraded the interior and now Beadles has 2 all pros on both sides which is just making him better. Plus we don't miss Kuper as much in pass pro with Koppen.

Koppen and Holliday were 2 great post TC pickups by this staff, these are the moves SB teams make.

lonestar
11-16-2012, 09:11 PM
Yes Cutlers mobility helped but the OL was very good that year.

Shanny had to stop calling boots in 2006 because teams learned that Plummer was better outside the pocket than inside it. Pitt kept Jake in the pocket during the AFC championship and other teams used that as a blue print and played boot 1st. Plummers play inside the pocket digressed to the point that he forced Shanny to replace him. His last game as a starter was pathetic on Thanksgiving vs kFc.

The reason Jake had his best years with us was because of Shanny's system.

Actually when Kubes left mikey hired dinger to replace him and they moved to the pocket passing scheme.

Even though they KNEW the OL had not been built to pocket protect. It had been designed for ZBS and roll it passing off of great fakes to the RBs.

They did this knowing that Jake was ill equipped for running this and that Mikey's heart throb cutlet was ..

Mikey learned the hard way when he promoted Greise over locker room favorite Bubby. He knew he could not do the same thing as Jake was the undisputed leader on Offense. Jake and mikey never got along much the same as John and Dan had to have a buffer in mikey. Kubes filled that bill kept mikey up of Jakes back. When Kubes left and dinger mikey old time college bud came to town, they changed the scheme Jake knew his time in DEN was over. But also knew of Mikey's fubar with Griese.

So he simply sabotaged him by first drafting, then the change in scheme all the while pining for his boi.

A shame that mikey was such a back stabber. But in the end all involved in the scheme got their fate.

Btw I think Jake had his best years in Kubes scheme more so than mikey's.
Mikey was just the HC.

Since Kubes left the O was never as good.

lonestar
11-16-2012, 09:18 PM
Manning's ability to get rid of the ball is huge, but don't kid yourselves, this o-line is pass-blocking much, much better than last season. Tebow held on to the ball too long sometimes, but that didn't really have anything to do with Beadles, Walton, and Franklin getting beat like drums all the time.

I tend to believe that those guys getting beat like a drum was more bad coaching zero OTA during a transition to a new scheme and no ability to use dove valley for conditioning.

Very few issues this year after a full year offseason workouts, and conditioning.

Not to mention Mazu as their coach. I fully expect Beadles, Walton and Franklin to be long term starters.

Now I do not think they will play Cladys asking price therefore tagging him while they get a rookie OLT up and running.

kappys
11-16-2012, 09:22 PM
Manning's ability to get rid of the ball is huge, but don't kid yourselves, this o-line is pass-blocking much, much better than last season. Tebow held on to the ball too long sometimes, but that didn't really have anything to do with Beadles, Walton, and Franklin getting beat like drums all the time.

Exactly - its not just Manning, and its not just getting rid of Tebow Either

Ryan Clady looks like he is back to form - he looks like he did his rookie season before the injury. I honestly forgot just how dominant he was back then but he right back into it both pass and run blocking

Zane Beadles I felt was the weak link. He was getting ragdolled out there. I don't know what the strength coach has done but he has really turned it around. He still struggles to move DT's right in front of him but he is able to hold his ground and he can really pull quickly for running plays and traps

Walton - by the end of last year he was already pretty good as pass pro. He looked about the same until his injury - still struggles to get out in front to run block. Koppen is actually rather similar

Kuper - solid pass blocker his entire career. There is a big drop off when Ramirez comes in though

Orlando - Last year he struggled against speed rushers but basically handled everything else. This year he seems to be much quicker getting into his backpedals. Technique and understanding better how to drive you guy past the QB in the pocket rather than just trying to stonewall him has resulted in very solid play from Franklin.

The Peyton Manning tide raises all boats but a lot of improvement comes from Clady being healthy, Franklin utilizing techniques to neutralize speed rushers and the remarkable strength improvement from Zane Beadles.

baja
11-16-2012, 09:36 PM
Exactly - its not just Manning, and its not just getting rid of Tebow Either

Ryan Clady looks like he is back to form - he looks like he did his rookie season before the injury. I honestly forgot just how dominant he was back then but he right back into it both pass and run blocking

Zane Beadles I felt was the weak link. He was getting ragdolled out there. I don't know what the strength coach has done but he has really turned it around. He still struggles to move DT's right in front of him but he is able to hold his ground and he can really pull quickly for running plays and traps

Walton - by the end of last year he was already pretty good as pass pro. He looked about the same until his injury - still struggles to get out in front to run block. Koppen is actually rather similar

Kuper - solid pass blocker his entire career. There is a big drop off when Ramirez comes in though

Orlando - Last year he struggled against speed rushers but basically handled everything else. This year he seems to be much quicker getting into his backpedals. Technique and understanding better how to drive you guy past the QB in the pocket rather than just trying to stonewall him has resulted in very solid play from Franklin.

The Peyton Manning tide raises all boats but a lot of improvement comes from Clady being healthy, Franklin utilizing techniques to neutralize speed rushers and the remarkable strength improvement from Zane Beadles.

Excellent post - rep.

Kudos to the current coaching staff. Hopefully they will do for Walton next season what they have done for Franklin, Beadles, Clady and the rest of them.

TonyR
11-16-2012, 09:58 PM
...its not just Manning...

Agree, it's not just Manning. But it is Manning more than anything else. He's that good.

In 2010 with Indy he got sacked 16 times in 16 starts. In 2011, without Manning, Indy QBs got sacked 35 times. So from 16 sackes to 35. More than double. Think about that for a minute.

Now last season Broncos QBs got sacked 42 times. This season? On pace for less than 20. From 42 to 20. Less than half. Think about that for a minute.

Now tell me, who/what is most responsible for the decline in sacks this season? Note I didn't say "the only thing" responsible. I just said "most" responsible.

My job is done here.

Dutch
11-16-2012, 10:08 PM
I think JD was already getting there this season Baja. We are starting to look much, much better from a depth perspective across the boards. Especially on the lines. Weird, actually. Nice work coaching up the players they have to work with, in conjunction with some timely FO moves (Koppen, seriously, could that have worked out any better?).

baja
11-16-2012, 10:12 PM
I think JD was already getting there this season Baja. We are starting to look much, much better from a depth perspective across the boards. Especially on the lines. Weird, actually. Nice work coaching up the players they have to work with, in conjunction with some timely FO moves (Koppen, seriously, could that have worked out any better?).

The only thing better would been if Walton didn't get hurt but replaced by Koppen because he outplayed Walton in practice. Cat's have too many good back ups on the lines

lonestar
11-16-2012, 10:16 PM
I think JD was already getting there this season Baja. We are starting to look much, much better from a depth perspective across the boards. Especially on the lines. Weird, actually. Nice work coaching up the players they have to work with, in conjunction with some timely FO moves (Koppen, seriously, could that have worked out any better?).

Great post and your right on teh mark..

Way to many folks are hung up that Josh drafted them.. opposed to seeing the progress made from thier rookie years..

Going form super poor OL coaching the first year, to the no off season with a brand new Offensive scheme killed these guys particular..

VERY few OL guys come in and kick ass in their first couple of years, except perhaps those taken in rounds one and most of those are top 15 picks..

The game speed and size of the DL across from them simply overwhelms them.. Add to it the veteran moves they have just causes real problems..

Add to that two rookies starting next to each other further compounds it..

then add in that Clady had been playing like crap.. you get a BIGGIE WHAMMY..

not like Pouncey coming in a few years ago in PIT and starting on very experienced OL.. he had vets on both side of him to help his transition..

lonestar
11-16-2012, 10:20 PM
The only thing better would been if Walton didn't get hurt but replaced by Koppen because he outplayed Walton in practice. Cat's have too many good back ups on the lines

as much as you might have wanted that it would have never happened..

Mazu knows that one it would have hindered his development and tow it would have disrupted the continuity of the others around him..

He was not getting any reps in practice without that they would have never beat him out..

Now had he come in early in training camp maybe..

once TC is over and the season starts changes to the line up are few and far between except for injury.. or flat screw ups (mays)..

there is simply to little practice time to experiment..

kappys
11-16-2012, 10:29 PM
Agree, it's not just Manning. But it is Manning more than anything else. He's that good.

In 2010 with Indy he got sacked 16 times in 16 starts. In 2011, without Manning, Indy QBs got sacked 35 times. So from 16 sackes to 35. More than double. Think about that for a minute.

Now last season Broncos QBs got sacked 42 times. This season? On pace for less than 20. From 42 to 20. Less than half. Think about that for a minute.

Now tell me, who/what is most responsible for the decline in sacks this season? Note I didn't say "the only thing" responsible. I just said "most" responsible.

My job is done here.

From a pure sack standpoint sure - Manning doesn't get sacked because when the defense blitzes he recognizes it pre snap and goes to his hot read. That hasn't changed.

However the Denver O-line has done much better than recent Indy lines at keeping a nice open and clean pocket(I didn't bother watching Indy without Manning). There is very little pressure up front and both tackles have done a great job at walling off their guys. Manning is reproducing the sort of completion percentages he had in the mid 2000's when the Indy line was at its best.

Doggcow
11-17-2012, 12:19 AM
The line has played great, but the #1 guy that protects Manning, is Manning.