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View Full Version : Shanahan's record the last 5 seasons: 38-51


Kaylore
11-12-2012, 05:26 PM
I decided to go back and look at how Shanahan has done since Gary Kubiak left him. I remember the offense not feeling the same and when we played the Texans in 2007 thinking "they look more like the Broncos than we do anymore." So that got me to thinking, what has Shanahan done without Kubiak?

Well he's 38-51 as of his most recent game.

His teams ranked on offense by year.

Den 2006: 21st in yards 17th in points
Den 2007: 11th yards 21st in points
Den 2008: 2nd yards 16th in points
Was 2010: 18 in yards 25th in points
Was 2011: 16th in yards 26th in points
Was 2012: 7th in yards 11th in points

His teams on defense:
Den 2006: 14th in yards 8th in points
Den 2007: 19th in yards 28th in points
Den 2008: 29th in yards 30th in points
Was 2010: 31st in yards 21st in points
Was 2011: 13th in yards 21st in points
Was 2012: 28th in yards 21st in points

Gary Kubiak hasn't done THAT much better. He's 55-50 as the Texans head coach. However he's only had two losing seasons there, and his last three years his offense and defense have both finished in the top ten.

I'm not doing this to slam Shanahan or to give Lonestar and excuse to type Tanahan fifty million times. I am just wondering if Shanny is Kubes as Ditka was to Ryan - perhaps he was his muse.

That said, Griffin has a chance to preserve Shanny's career a bit longer, but if it doesn't turn around next year, or if the rest of the year ends badly, I think Shanahan's career as a head coach will be in jeopardy.

rbackfactory80
11-12-2012, 05:30 PM
I hate to say it but I think he is a natural offensive coordinator. He doesn't deal well with all the other stuff.

Also, players just don't like him anymore. The luster of his rings has worn off and players don't believe he can take them to that place so they wont put up with his my way or the highway attitude. In fact, most of his current day players probably never even saw Elway play during his actual career.

RedskinBronco
11-12-2012, 05:34 PM
Gary Kubiak hasn't done THAT much better. He's 55-50 as the Texans head coach. However he's only had two losing seasons there, and his last three years his offense and defense have both finished in the top ten.


I will just point out, in fairness to Kubiak the Texans were young and rebuilding when he took over and it took him 2 years to get them straight right?

The indictment on shanahan, is that this is his 3rd year and he will be lucky to pull off a 6-10 season with no progress. Injuries? Sure, but every team deals with them and the colts were supposed to have much less talent than the skins and look what a brand new coaching staff is doing there.

Jay Glazer said Snyder is not happy with shanny's postgame comments after the carolina game. He's on the clock for that 5th year now and if next year starts this bad he will be gone by mid year.

TheReverend
11-12-2012, 05:47 PM
lol

3 years ago many claimed "he'd never coach in the NFL again".

Fact is: The guy remains in the best in the business. He inherited a complete mess at every level of the organization, complete with over a hundred million invested in Albert ****ing Haynesworth. Now you see a responsible organization building great depth with a LOT of budding superstars from Griffin to Kerrigan to Fred Davis to Orakpo etc... and speaking of the last two, he's fielding a team in the most competitive division in the NFL (or close) that's competing at a very high level with a handful of their best players on the IR.

Imagine if we lost OUR best pass rusher, OUR top two best receiving options, our best DL and more.

The discussion is nonsense and I will not hear it.

Si-lence! Not hear it, I say!

jerseyboiler120
11-12-2012, 05:56 PM
If Shanny would have stayed as our coach and not been given all the other responsibilities we would have another lombardi or two. Almost did with the bearded snake as our QB.

wolf754life
11-12-2012, 06:05 PM
he should be fired

errand
11-12-2012, 06:10 PM
lol

3 years ago many claimed "he'd never coach in the NFL again".

Fact is: The guy remains in the best in the business. He inherited a complete mess at every level of the organization, complete with over a hundred million invested in Albert ****ing Haynesworth. Now you see a responsible organization building great depth with a LOT of budding superstars from Griffin to Kerrigan to Fred Davis to Orakpo etc... and speaking of the last two, he's fielding a team in the most competitive division in the NFL (or close) that's competing at a very high level with a handful of their best players on the IR.

Imagine if we lost OUR best pass rusher, OUR top two best receiving options, our best DL and more.

The discussion is nonsense and I will not hear it.

Si-lence! Not hear it, I say!

Oh, stop it!

He's won one solitary playoff game since Elway hung them up....I mean ****, Dan Reeves got to a SB with ****ing Chris Chandler and won a playoff game with the Giants as well. Mike hasn't given anyone a reason to think he's still a "great" coach nowadays....he was a great coach, but he's no longer a great coach. See how that works?

Mike's place in Broncos history will always be there....but the truth is he's no longer the "genius" he seemed. Guess everyone looks great when they have a Hall of Fame QB running the offense...

Tom Landry was the greatest coach in Cowboys history...doesn't mean he didn't deserve to be fired when he went 13-30 over his last 3 seasons.....Mike deserved to be fired after he went 24-24 over his last 3 seasons, and he'll be canned again if he doesn't get the Redskins back to the playoffs soon.

errand
11-12-2012, 06:13 PM
As for Kubiak, the main difference is he hasn't neglected his defense the past few seasons....and is now 8-1 and may lead them to the SB because of it.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-12-2012, 06:14 PM
McDaniels nuthuggers unite!

bowtown
11-12-2012, 06:17 PM
he should be fired

You should start a website.

baja
11-12-2012, 06:52 PM
McDaniels nuthuggers unite!

Says the first & only one to mention him in a thread about Shanahan.

Dr. Broncenstein
11-12-2012, 06:58 PM
Says the first & only one to mention him in a thread about Shanahan.

Lol. There is surely no correlation between Shanny bashers and McD ballgarglers.

errand
11-12-2012, 06:59 PM
Says the first & only one to mention him in a thread about Shanahan.

He's trying to make hay that anyone who thought Mike deserved to be fired is a McDaniels fan.

Wade Phillips said it best..."there's two kinds of coaches...those that have been fired and those that are going to be..."

Again, Mike was a great coach back in the day....now? Not so much....

baja
11-12-2012, 07:22 PM
Lol. There is surely no correlation between Shanny bashers and McD ballgarglers.

Come on doc.

Shanny was great once and with the help of a few HOF players won a couple of SBs for the Broncos. Thanks Mike!

Kaylore has pointed out his record since Kubes left. It's not they record of a good coach and half of that record was complied in Denver where he had coached for many a year so if he inhearted a mess it's his mess.

Mike has lost it if there are any nut huggers here it's Shanny's nuts that are being hugged.


Name one McD fan left here, just one.

Atwater His Ass
11-12-2012, 07:28 PM
Mike utilized the tools at his disposal, including Elway and Kubiak. So what? It in now way dimishes what he accomplished in Denver.

Shanahan will always have a special place in Bronco history, and that's enough for me. I will never forget the feeling after Denver won the first one, and Shanahan had a lot to do with that. Don't really care how successfull (or not) he is outside of Denver.

bpc
11-12-2012, 07:37 PM
Shanny is not w/o flaws but still a great coach. Needs a GM though.

gunns
11-12-2012, 08:02 PM
If Shanny would have stayed as our coach and not been given all the other responsibilities we would have another lombardi or two. Almost did with the bearded snake as our QB.

Given what other responsibilities? He demanded them and THAT was his problem.

As for Kubiak, the main difference is he hasn't neglected his defense the past few seasons....and is now 8-1 and may lead them to the SB because of it.

Exactly. Not Shanahan's only problem, but probably his biggest.

And I don't remember anyone saying he would never coach in this league again after he was fired. I remember them saying he probably wouldn't coach for the next year and he didn't. And if he's the best in the business with records of 6-10, 5-11, and 3-6, then John Fox must be Vince Lombardi with the mess he inherited.

baja
11-12-2012, 08:10 PM
Given what other responsibilities? He demanded them and THAT was his problem.



Exactly. Not Shanahan's only problem, but probably his biggest.

And I don't remember anyone saying he would never coach in this league again after he was fired. I remember them saying he probably wouldn't coach for the next year and he didn't. And if he's the best in the business with records of 6-10, 5-11, and 3-6, then John Fox must be Vince Lombardi with the mess he inherited.


What is really funny is the diehard Shanny fans that think he's still the greatest thing since answering machines pointing to some mystery nut huggers of some long gone personality when the real first class nut hugger is the image in their mirror.

Kaylore
11-12-2012, 08:13 PM
Lol. There is surely no correlation between Shanny bashers and McD ballgarglers.

Um, hiring McD was a bad choice. That doesn't mean firing Shanahan was too. They aren't mutually inclusive. And since when am I ballgargler for McD? That's such a crap argument.

"Shanahan hasn't coached well the last half decade."

"You must love McDaniels!"

:erm?:

Kaylore
11-12-2012, 08:16 PM
What's more disappointing is it took Fox and Elway one offseason - and an abbreviated one at that - to win just as many playoff games as Shanahan did his entire time without Elway. That's with a full back playing QB and the same supposed "financial constraints" that Bowlen supposedly put on Shanahan but someone only he found out about but the rest of the local media and reporters caught no wind of.

TheReverend
11-12-2012, 08:24 PM
What's more disappointing is it took Fox and Elway one offseason - and an abbreviated one at that - to win just as many playoff games as Shanahan did his entire time without Elway. That's with a full back playing QB and the same supposed "financial constraints" that Bowlen supposedly put on Shanahan but someone only he found out about but the rest of the local media and reporters caught no wind of.

I said I would not hear it! Now good day, sir!





I SAID GOOD DAY, SIR.

TonyR
11-12-2012, 08:37 PM
What's more disappointing is it took Fox and Elway one offseason - and an abbreviated one at that - to win just as many playoff games as Shanahan did his entire time without Elway. That's with a full back playing QB and the same supposed "financial constraints" that Bowlen supposedly put on Shanahan but someone only he found out about but the rest of the local media and reporters caught no wind of.

^ The truth! It was spoken here.

Broncomutt
11-12-2012, 08:39 PM
He's got a 70 year old 1000 yard stare.

TonyR
11-12-2012, 08:40 PM
McDaniels nuthuggers unite!

Every time McD hatred consumes you just remind yourself that thanks to that little douchebag we have our best defensive player (Von Miller) and our best offensive player not named PMFM (DT). Hell, for that matter, without McD we'd still have that loser Cutler and wouldn't even have PMFM right now!

Bronco Boy
11-12-2012, 08:54 PM
Saw this anecdote in Peter King's column today, sorry if it's a repost:

And this from the feud between the late Al Davis -- who fired Mike Shanahan as coach of the Raiders after only 20 games, and balked at paying him the $250,000 remaining on his contract:

Prior to a Raiders-Niners game in 1994, when Shanahan was San Francisco's offensive coordinator, Shanahan admitted directing Steve Young to throw a football at Davis on the field during pregame warmups. Davis had wandered to the 49ers side of the field during warmups to check the team out. Players were complaining to Shanahan about it. Myers got Shanahan, now the Washington coach, to tell him the story inside his Redskins office recently.

Writes Myers:
"Guys, we'll win the game, don't worry about it. Don't let him bother you," Shanahan said.
The end of the 49ers' pregame drill took them back to their own 5-yard line. Davis was standing 35 yards away. "Hey, get him out of there," the players said to Shanahan. Shanahan was pissed at Davis for disrupting his pregame routine. And surely he was still pissed at him for not paying him the $250,000. "Now I started thinking. Okay, so we got one more play left," Shanahan said.

Shanahan is telling this story seated behind his desk at Redskins Park. It's a quiet spring day, but suddenly he's animated. On the sideline, Shanahan's face gets red, and it looks like the veins are about to pop out of his neck when he gets mad. Off the field, you rarely see his emotional side. But he had no use for Davis. Davis had embarrassed him by firing him almost without giving him a chance, and during that pregame Shanahan wanted to put a scare into his nemesis. Shanahan came up with the idea of how to send Davis back to his side of the field and needed one of his quarterbacks to be his accomplice. Young said he was more than happy to oblige.

"Throw a go route," Shanahan told Young. "If you happen to hit that guy in the white outfit with the ball, you won't make me mad." The receiver was Jerry Rice. He ran the go route. Shanahan didn't really want to drill Davis. But if it happened, maybe he would never stand on the 49ers' side of the field again. Of course, if he hit Davis, Shanahan would never get his $250,000. Young dropped back to pass. He threw the ball in Davis' direction. Rice, whom Shanahan did not bring into the loop on this little bit of mischief, was running downfield, looking up for the ball. He was not looking at Davis. He didn't see Davis. Shanahan saw the ball. He saw the receiver. He saw Davis. All three were about to occupy the same spot. Shanahan thought Davis saw the ball coming. He did not.

"Oh, my God," Shanahan said. "I wanted to scare him. I didn't want to kill him." The ball and the receiver were closing in on Davis. "Al realizes that the ball and everybody is coming at him about five yards before there is going to be contact," Shanahan said. "I think he's going to be run over. And he dives; he actually dives out of the way. Well, half of our players see what happens, and they are all laughing." Young drilled Davis in the leg.

It was not surprising that he found his target. Young completed 64.3 percent of his passes in his career. "Ten years after this happened, I was walking out of a stadium on a Monday night, and Al came up to me," Young said. "He told me that he knew it was me." Young told Davis that he was ashamed of himself, more so than with anything else he had ever done. He then sent him a letter of apology.

Shanahan is so fired up that he gets out of his seat to finish the story. He loves this story. It was revenge. He explains in great detail Davis diving on the grass at Candlestick Park, getting to his feet, his hair falling down in front of his face. Davis stared him down from 35 yards away and gave him the middle finger.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/11/12/week-10/index.html#ixzz2C4U4kGRS

baja
11-12-2012, 08:56 PM
I said I would not hear it! Now good day, sir!





I SAID GOOD DAY, SIR.

You know he is right.

But I understand. You are trained in blind loyalty.

Not that there is anything wrong with that in certain situtions. ;-)

yerner
11-12-2012, 08:58 PM
coaches tend to be only as good as their quarterbacks.

Kaylore
11-12-2012, 09:01 PM
coaches tend to be only as good as their quarterbacks.

There's certainly something to be said for this. However you don't need a franchise QB to build a good defense.

gunns
11-12-2012, 09:08 PM
Saw this anecdote in Peter King's column today, sorry if it's a repost:

And this from the feud between the late Al Davis -- who fired Mike Shanahan as coach of the Raiders after only 20 games, and balked at paying him the $250,000 remaining on his contract:

Prior to a Raiders-Niners game in 1994, when Shanahan was San Francisco's offensive coordinator, Shanahan admitted directing Steve Young to throw a football at Davis on the field during pregame warmups. Davis had wandered to the 49ers side of the field during warmups to check the team out. Players were complaining to Shanahan about it. Myers got Shanahan, now the Washington coach, to tell him the story inside his Redskins office recently.

Writes Myers:
"Guys, we'll win the game, don't worry about it. Don't let him bother you," Shanahan said.
The end of the 49ers' pregame drill took them back to their own 5-yard line. Davis was standing 35 yards away. "Hey, get him out of there," the players said to Shanahan. Shanahan was pissed at Davis for disrupting his pregame routine. And surely he was still pissed at him for not paying him the $250,000. "Now I started thinking. Okay, so we got one more play left," Shanahan said.

Shanahan is telling this story seated behind his desk at Redskins Park. It's a quiet spring day, but suddenly he's animated. On the sideline, Shanahan's face gets red, and it looks like the veins are about to pop out of his neck when he gets mad. Off the field, you rarely see his emotional side. But he had no use for Davis. Davis had embarrassed him by firing him almost without giving him a chance, and during that pregame Shanahan wanted to put a scare into his nemesis. Shanahan came up with the idea of how to send Davis back to his side of the field and needed one of his quarterbacks to be his accomplice. Young said he was more than happy to oblige.

"Throw a go route," Shanahan told Young. "If you happen to hit that guy in the white outfit with the ball, you won't make me mad." The receiver was Jerry Rice. He ran the go route. Shanahan didn't really want to drill Davis. But if it happened, maybe he would never stand on the 49ers' side of the field again. Of course, if he hit Davis, Shanahan would never get his $250,000. Young dropped back to pass. He threw the ball in Davis' direction. Rice, whom Shanahan did not bring into the loop on this little bit of mischief, was running downfield, looking up for the ball. He was not looking at Davis. He didn't see Davis. Shanahan saw the ball. He saw the receiver. He saw Davis. All three were about to occupy the same spot. Shanahan thought Davis saw the ball coming. He did not.

"Oh, my God," Shanahan said. "I wanted to scare him. I didn't want to kill him." The ball and the receiver were closing in on Davis. "Al realizes that the ball and everybody is coming at him about five yards before there is going to be contact," Shanahan said. "I think he's going to be run over. And he dives; he actually dives out of the way. Well, half of our players see what happens, and they are all laughing." Young drilled Davis in the leg.

It was not surprising that he found his target. Young completed 64.3 percent of his passes in his career. "Ten years after this happened, I was walking out of a stadium on a Monday night, and Al came up to me," Young said. "He told me that he knew it was me." Young told Davis that he was ashamed of himself, more so than with anything else he had ever done. He then sent him a letter of apology.

Shanahan is so fired up that he gets out of his seat to finish the story. He loves this story. It was revenge. He explains in great detail Davis diving on the grass at Candlestick Park, getting to his feet, his hair falling down in front of his face. Davis stared him down from 35 yards away and gave him the middle finger.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/peter_king/11/12/week-10/index.html#ixzz2C4U4kGRS

Good for you Mike! LOL

NFLBRONCO
11-12-2012, 09:10 PM
What is really funny is the diehard Shanny fans that think he's still the greatest thing since answering machines pointing to some mystery nut huggers of some long gone personality when the real first class nut hugger is the image in their mirror.

Got to agree here. I think we all appreciate Shanny and the rings. I think its cool many still love the guy. To still think he's mid to late 90's version of himself LOL. Only in ego and stubborness. I would think after this long his ego would subside at bit guess not. I don't think he deserves the label as a great coach anymore.

DivineLegion
11-12-2012, 11:01 PM
Good for you Mike! LOL

I love it!

lonestar
11-13-2012, 01:20 AM
I decided to go back and look at how Shanahan has done since Gary Kubiak left him. I remember the offense not feeling the same and when we played the Texans in 2007 thinking "they look more like the Broncos than we do anymore." So that got me to thinking, what has Shanahan done without Kubiak?

Well he's 38-51 as of his most recent game.

His teams ranked on offense by year.

Den 2006: 21st in yards 17th in points
Den 2007: 11th yards 21st in points
Den 2008: 2nd yards 16th in points
Was 2010: 18 in yards 25th in points
Was 2011: 16th in yards 26th in points
Was 2012: 7th in yards 11th in points

His teams on defense:
Den 2006: 14th in yards 8th in points
Den 2007: 19th in yards 28th in points
Den 2008: 29th in yards 30th in points
Was 2010: 31st in yards 21st in points
Was 2011: 13th in yards 21st in points
Was 2012: 28th in yards 21st in points

Gary Kubiak hasn't done THAT much better. He's 55-50 as the Texans head coach. However he's only had two losing seasons there, and his last three years his offense and defense have both finished in the top ten.

I'm not doing this to slam Shanahan or to give Lonestar and excuse to type Tanahan fifty million times. I am just wondering if Shanny is Kubes as Ditka was to Ryan - perhaps he was his muse.

That said, Griffin has a chance to preserve Shanny's career a bit longer, but if it doesn't turn around next year, or if the rest of the year ends badly, I think Shanahan's career as a head coach will be in jeopardy.

Fixed that for you.. ahahahahahahaha

I only use it annoy the mikey nut huggers..

Thanks for pointing out some of the facts that I have been trying to get across to folks since about 2003..


now look at his drafting record and failed UFA fubars..

BTW the year before mikey went to WAS their defense was #10 in yards..#15 in points..

what a year under mikey can do to a defense..

lonestar
11-13-2012, 01:25 AM
Oh, stop it!

He's won one solitary playoff game since Elway hung them up....I mean ****, Dan Reeves got to a SB with ****ing Chris Chandler and won a playoff game with the Giants as well. Mike hasn't given anyone a reason to think he's still a "great" coach nowadays....he was a great coach, but he's no longer a great coach. See how that works?

Mike's place in Broncos history will always be there....but the truth is he's no longer the "genius" he seemed. Guess everyone looks great when they have a Hall of Fame QB running the offense...

Tom Landry was the greatest coach in Cowboys history...doesn't mean he didn't deserve to be fired when he went 13-30 over his last 3 seasons.....Mike deserved to be fired after he went 24-24 over his last 3 seasons, and he'll be canned again if he doesn't get the Redskins back to the playoffs soon.

Pretty sure Dano also took the broncos to the super bowl a couple of times..

lonestar
11-13-2012, 01:38 AM
What is really funny is the diehard Shanny fans that think he's still the greatest thing since answering machines, pointing to some mystery nut huggers of some long gone personality when the real first class nut hugger is the image in their mirror.

:thumbs:

I stopped being his fan in about 03-04 or so after looking at his DAFTING record..

Someone commented about Pat stopping the spending.. I actually think that may have been semi accurate.. I believe Pat told mikey no more wasteful spending and hitting the salary cap hard each year.. in most cases having to redo contracts to get under it.. giving up huge signing bonuses to induce players like TD, Rod and Jake to do so..

ColoradoDarin
11-13-2012, 06:38 AM
What's more disappointing is it took Fox and Elway one offseason - and an abbreviated one at that - to win just as many playoff games as Shanahan did his entire time without Elway. That's with a full back playing QB and the same supposed "financial constraints" that Bowlen supposedly put on Shanahan but someone only he found out about but the rest of the local media and reporters caught no wind of.

The little known tebow effect - said as quietly as possible...

2KBack
11-13-2012, 06:42 AM
coaches tend to be only as good as their quarterbacks.

The thing is....his QB now has been incredible and his team is on the same pace as last year when he was juggling Rex Grossman and John Beck.

RedskinBronco
11-13-2012, 06:45 AM
Shanahan stopped being a good offensive coordinator a long time ago. He is good for scripting the first 15 plays but post elway era he has had no answer for adjustments made by the opponent.

Either the game has changed or Elway was that good or combination.

Like others have mentioned, even Dan Reeves accomplished quite a bit and I wasn't even a big fan of his. However, you have to respect that he took Denver AND Atlanta, yes the freaking falcons to the SB

Edit: and the more the colts win, the more indictment it is of shanahan and what he is doing in DC.

Mediator12
11-13-2012, 10:29 AM
This is circular argument on here. Shanahan is Still a very good NFL football coach, but remember his record in WAS is with his son being the OC just like Polian let Chris do the Main draft work here in INDY. Look where that got him! Mike is letting Kyle call the offense and he finally tried to change his defense, the one he SWORE he would never play a 3-4 front. The problem was, WAS was a damn fine 4-3 front defense! And, he brought Jim Haslet in as his DC who is not a solid 3-4 guy!

Add in he retained his best friend Slowik as a LB Coach when he hired Raheem Morris From TB to coach the secondary.

Shanahan the football coach is still a very good X's and O's Coach. What he is, is a poor decision maker off the field with his staff, Player acquisition, drafting, and letting people do their jobs. He has become a micro-manager and a poor overall HC because of it. He keeps poor performing friends on the payroll and delegates the important jobs to the worst qualified. And, it will catch up to him AGAIN very soon.

2KBack
11-13-2012, 10:39 AM
Shanahan the football coach is still a very good X's and O's Coach. What he is, is a poor decision maker off the field with his staff, Player acquisition, drafting, and letting people do their jobs. He has become a micro-manager and a poor overall HC because of it. He keeps poor performing friends on the payroll and delegates the important jobs to the worst qualified. And, it will catch up to him AGAIN very soon.

This cannot be stated enough. Shanahan is a great football mind, but struggles with the other aspects of being the Head guy...mainly picking great coaching staffs and then delegating.

baja
11-13-2012, 10:41 AM
This is circular argument on here. Shanahan is Still a very good NFL football coach, but remember his record in WAS is with his son being the OC just like Polian let Chris do the Main draft work here in INDY. Look where that got him! Mike is letting Kyle call the offense and he finally tried to change his defense, the one he SWORE he would never play a 3-4 front. The problem was, WAS was a damn fine 4-3 front defense! And, he brought Jim Haslet in as his DC who is not a solid 3-4 guy!

Add in he retained his best friend Slowik as a LB Coach when he hired Raheem Morris From TB to coach the secondary.

Shanahan the football coach is still a very good X's and O's Coach. What he is, is a poor decision maker off the field with his staff, Player acquisition, drafting, and letting people do their jobs. He has become a micro-manager and a poor overall HC because of it. He keeps poor performing friends on the payroll and delegates the important jobs to the worst qualified. And, it will catch up to him AGAIN very soon.

So basically what you are saying is Mike is a great OC but a poor HC because all those aspects you mention count when evaluating a HC.

NFLBRONCO
11-13-2012, 10:47 AM
I think Mike is a great X and O coach at the beggining of games and in Sept early oct. In mid Oct and later and halftime and mid season adjustments I think he is avg at best.

I agree with Baja Mike would be a great OC. I just wonder what team he will take over for next.

baja
11-13-2012, 10:58 AM
I think Mike is a great X and O coach at the beggining of games and in Sept early oct. In mid Oct and later and halftime and mid season adjustments I think he is avg at best.

I agree with Baja Mike would be a great OC. I just wonder what team he will take over for next.

I think if Mike fails in Washington it will be his last shot at HC, ironically for all the reasons Med pointed out.

Mediator12
11-13-2012, 10:58 AM
So basically what you are saying is Mike is a great OC but a poor HC because all those aspects you mention count when evaluating a HC.

Not an OC, he is still a great gameday HC. Where he fails is not on gamedays....

baja
11-13-2012, 11:00 AM
Not an OC, he is still a great gameday HC. Where he fails is not on gamedays....

If you are just considering "gameday" than you are talking about an OC not a HC

What does he do on gameday that is outside the authority of a OC?

Mediator12
11-13-2012, 11:10 AM
If you are just considering "gameday" than you are talking about an OC not a HC

What does he do on gameday that is outside the authority of a OC?

Kyle is the OC and he still calls all the plays on gameday. What Shanahan is still a master at is making the right decisions as a HC on gameday. And, he helps both sides of the ball adjust to what the other team is doing very well. He has always been able to adjust, he just lacked players who could execute those adjustments like they should.

CEH
11-13-2012, 11:15 AM
Not an OC, he is still a great gameday HC. Where he fails is not on gamedays....

If he's such a great game day coach how come his mid to late season record over say the last 12 games of every year is at or below .500 except for 2005 Seems like in 12+ years of post Elway coaching he'd have his team acending as the season wears on instead he starts fast early and ride that early season success to a mediore record and into a playoff blowout

Teams don't really start to gameplan till around week 4. Coincidence? I think not

baja
11-13-2012, 11:16 AM
Kyle is the OC and he still calls all the plays on gameday. What Shanahan is still a master at is making the right decisions as a HC on gameday. And, he helps both sides of the ball adjust to what the other team is doing very well. He has always been able to adjust, he just lacked players who could execute those adjustments like they should.


I know you football knowledge is off the charts Med but I have never see any evidence that Mike got involved in defensive adjustments and if he did is that really a plus given the defensives we have had under his tenure?

I give you he is a great O mind in every regard but I never saw his as a defensive guru, after all he hired Slowick and supported him beyond reason to the point that it helped to cost him his job.

No, I submit he is a great OC but it stops there.

broncocalijohn
11-13-2012, 11:22 AM
If Shanny would have stayed as our coach and not demanded all the other responsibilities we would have another lombardi or two. Almost did with the bearded snake as our QB.

FYP in bold.

Best thing Shanny did after the Super Bowls was making a simplified playbook for Jake Plummer and molding him into a Pro Bowl player. It was a good and exciting offense. Worst thing to do to Plummer was either drafting Cutler in the first round or bouncing Plummer during the season when he was still leading us to a very good record.

No way Shanny gives us 2 Super Bowls unless he coaches to 85 years of age. I believe the best of Mike is past him.

DENVERDUI55
11-13-2012, 11:42 AM
The more the years go by have me thinking kubes was just as important to our franchise than Mikey. I think a lot of Mike s mastermind deserve to go to kubes. Kubes has proved he could draft and build a D and assemble a competant staff and can get the most out of his Qbs. Shanny however has been about the worst drafting HC/GM in the NFL along with his awful friend/family hiring for his coaching staff.

TheReverend
11-13-2012, 12:12 PM
McDaniels nuthuggers unite!

I wonder how you managed to call this one so accurately.

It's like you have a crystal ball or something.

baja
11-13-2012, 12:47 PM
I wonder how you managed to call this one so accurately.

It's like you have a crystal ball or something.

McDaniels has been mentioned twice, once by you and once by Doc. (unless in response to you two)

But don't let that get in the way of your crystal ball sighting.

baja
11-13-2012, 12:49 PM
I don't think Mike Shanahan is currently the greatest coach to walk the face of the earth therefore I must be a Josh McDaniels fan. - rev logic

gunns
11-13-2012, 12:51 PM
There's certainly something to be said for this. However you don't need a franchise QB to build a good defense.

So true. See the 2000 Baltimore Ravens and the 2002 Bucs.

broncocalijohn
11-13-2012, 01:32 PM
Come on doc.

Shanny was great once and with the help of a few HOF players won a couple of SBs for the Broncos. Thanks Mike!

Name one McD fan left here, just one.

I am sure some have not forgotten this dude from McDaniels home area.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=3395581#post3395581

He used to be I McBleed Orange and Blue.

That link shows that he wants praise for Tebow but hated him as our QB.

Chris
11-13-2012, 01:34 PM
Shanahan the football coach is still a very good X's and O's Coach. What he is, is a poor decision maker off the field with his staff, Player acquisition, drafting, and letting people do their jobs. He has become a micro-manager and a poor overall HC because of it. He keeps poor performing friends on the payroll and delegates the important jobs to the worst qualified. And, it will catch up to him AGAIN very soon.

So what you're saying is he's a bad coach who had the people around him to limit his weaknesses and enhance his strengths in the Denver SB era. Since then his weaknesses have only become more pronounced and his strengths diminished (by his weaknesses).

Dedhed
11-13-2012, 01:50 PM
The guy remains in the best in the business!

lulz, not even in the discussion anymore.

mwill07
11-13-2012, 01:56 PM
AFC west plays NFC East next season. 50/50 chance Washington comes to Denver. Assuming Shanahan is still head coach, how would Mile High greet him?

broncocalijohn
11-13-2012, 01:58 PM
AFC west plays NFC East next season. 50/50 chance Washington comes to Denver. Assuming Shanahan is still head coach, how would Mile High greet him?

With open arms. Seems he will be handing us a nice and easy win!

It will be SoCal's 2nd time he will root against the Broncos. First was against the Bears but he backed off of that when Hanie was put in to start.

baja
11-13-2012, 01:59 PM
AFC west plays NFC East next season. 50/50 chance Washington comes to Denver. Assuming Shanahan is still head coach, how would Mile High greet him?


With resounding applause - he brought us two super bowls no fan will ever forget that.

A better question is how many fans would want him back.

lonestar
11-13-2012, 02:02 PM
This is circular argument on here. Shanahan is Still a very good NFL football coach, but remember his record in WAS is with his son being the OC just like Polian let Chris do the Main draft work here in INDY. Look where that got him! Mike is letting Kyle call the offense and he finally tried to change his defense, the one he SWORE he would never play a 3-4 front. The problem was, WAS was a damn fine 4-3 front defense! And, he brought Jim Haslet in as his DC who is not a solid 3-4 guy!

Add in he retained his best friend Slowik as a LB Coach when he hired Raheem Morris From TB to coach the secondary.

Shanahan the football coach is still a very good X's and O's Coach. What he is, is a poor decision maker off the field with his staff, Player acquisition, drafting, and letting people do their jobs. He has become a micro-manager and a poor overall HC because of it. He keeps poor performing friends on the payroll and delegates the important jobs to the worst qualified. And, it will catch up to him AGAIN very soon.

:thumbs: except for this part.. it should have read..

He has always been a micro-manager and a poor overall HC because of it.

When you can not see the forest for the trees then it is time to step back and take a better look..

mikey has always wanted it done his way without questioning his authority..

He was/IS IMO his own worst enemy when it came down to personnel decisions..

He was once quoted as saying when someone questioned a college kids inconsistent playing.. " he has never been coached by me" thus justifying being taken in the draft..

only 6 of 41 of the hard core should almost be surefire keepers in his denver draftees were ever resigned to contracts in DEN after their rookie contracts expired.. of those 6 5 of them were players taken in 1999 or before the only other one was DJ and I think we all know that was not a wise deal for the team..

An 87% FAILURE RATE ON players that should be your foundation of the team going forward.. Lets not even talk about the stiffs he had as coaches.. all he wanted were yes men, I truly believe that he was forced by Pat to hire Nolan but undermined it all the way.. Loading him up with 3 stiffs on the DL to work with and when that failed he took the D back over..

I think we all know that that draft was a total waste and so uncharacteristic of mikey it had to be forced by Pat being pissed at the revolving door at DC.. IIRC mikey never drafted a total of 3 DL guys in the first rounds like that after 1999.. Let alone 3 in the same draft..

mikey was his own worst enemy..

baja
11-13-2012, 02:05 PM
Nolan did not coach under Shanny

gunns
11-13-2012, 02:05 PM
AFC west plays NFC East next season. 50/50 chance Washington comes to Denver. Assuming Shanahan is still head coach, how would Mile High greet him?

The same way they would probably greet Wade Phillips, who was an awful head coach (except for some of his pick ups), or Dan Reeves. Their contributions to the Broncos outweigh their downfalls. That doesn't mean it wasn't time for all 3 to leave.

lonestar
11-13-2012, 02:23 PM
The more the years go by have me thinking kubes was just as important to our franchise than Mikey. I think a lot of Mike s mastermind deserve to go to kubes. Kubes has proved he could draft and build a D and assemble a competant staff and can get the most out of his Qbs. Shanny however has been about the worst drafting HC/GM in the NFL along with his awful friend/family hiring for his coaching staff.

someone mentioned that mikey was responsible for making Jake a Pro bowler.. IMO it was mostly Kubes he sat down with Jake before the 2005 season and they studied ever play Jake was in from day one of his NFL career..

If y'all recall there was a point in that season he was very near setting a record for passes between interceptions.. Kubes made him look at where he was making poor decisions and Jake had a career year because of it.. Kubes got a HC job and mikey brought in a crony to set up a drop back pocket passing offense and then drafted cutler to take his spot..

Knowing that we did not have the OL to be able to do drop back passing ( not big enough to handle the NT/DT that our weighed them by as much as 60 pounds), and that Jake had never passed comfortably from pocket.. Mikey IMO back stabbed him to get his boi in place earlier than later in that season.. After learning the hard way by putting griese in front of a very popular Bubby and having a locker room issue, mikey was smarter this time..

Now I like Jake and now realize he may have never gotten us to the big show with the existing staff in front of him.. But he was clearly the better of the two QBs at teh time.. Had they not changed scheme and Kubes had still been here who knows..

We all know now that the OL was doomed to fail long term in pocket passing and thus the next year jay started with a lot of roll outs again.. and we now have an OL that is mostly 25 pounds or more bigger than that years was..

Kaylore
11-13-2012, 02:30 PM
This is circular argument on here. Shanahan is Still a very good NFL football coach, but remember his record in WAS is with his son being the OC just like Polian let Chris do the Main draft work here in INDY. Look where that got him! Mike is letting Kyle call the offense and he finally tried to change his defense, the one he SWORE he would never play a 3-4 front. The problem was, WAS was a damn fine 4-3 front defense! And, he brought Jim Haslet in as his DC who is not a solid 3-4 guy!

Add in he retained his best friend Slowik as a LB Coach when he hired Raheem Morris From TB to coach the secondary.

Shanahan the football coach is still a very good X's and O's Coach. What he is, is a poor decision maker off the field with his staff, Player acquisition, drafting, and letting people do their jobs. He has become a micro-manager and a poor overall HC because of it. He keeps poor performing friends on the payroll and delegates the important jobs to the worst qualified. And, it will catch up to him AGAIN very soon.
How is it a circular argument? You basically made my point.

lonestar
11-13-2012, 02:54 PM
Nolan did not coach under Shanny

your correct now that I think about it it was the DC from MIA that was promoted to interim HC after the HC was fired.. They cleaned house after teh e=season His name escaped me but was a highly regarded DC in his career.. much better than anything we have had since mikeys first purge right after the super bowls..

I suspect someone else knows his name..

Nolan well that was a Josh fubar..

Until now that is.. JDR under Fox and Elway what a combo.

mwill07
11-13-2012, 03:03 PM
your correct now that I think about it it was the DC from MIA that was promoted to interim HC after the HC was fired.. They cleaned house after teh e=season His name escaped me but was a highly regarded DC in his career.. much better than anything we have had since mikeys first purge right after the super bowls..

I suspect someone else knows his name..

Nolan well that was a Josh fubar..

Until now that is.. JDR under Fox and Elway what a combo.

Jim Bates, father of cutlers BFF Jeremy Bates.

The Bates defense was turrible, just turrible. Jarvis Moss was a Bates pick, supposed to be the next Jason Taylor. IIRC, it was a case of Bates forcing a system that we didn't have personnel for, trying to get the personnel, and then abandoning that re-molding mid-stream. it was a lot of changing directions and philosophies, that continued until Fox took over.

lonestar
11-13-2012, 03:10 PM
Jim Bates, father of cutlers BFF Jeremy Bates.

The Bates defense was turrible, just turrible. Jarvis Moss was a Bates pick, supposed to be the next Jason Taylor. IIRC, it was a case of Bates forcing a system that we didn't have personnel for, trying to get the personnel, and then abandoning that re-molding mid-stream. it was a lot of changing directions and philosophies, that continued until Fox took over.

Bates was a solid DC as for his picks, were they really his or something that mikey forced on him to doom him to failure..

as for the abandoning of the scheme that was IMO more mikey forcing his hand when they did not have instant success.. and anyone with half a brain knows that if the HC is not solid behind his position coaches the player move at half speed..


I believe that Pat forced him into hiring him and mikey being who he is wanting to be be in total control sabotaged it day one.. was the beginning of the end of his tenure in DEN..

DivineLegion
11-13-2012, 03:16 PM
I think Alfred Morris, and RGIII buy Mike a few more years. I miss Bobby Turner.

Mediator12
11-13-2012, 03:23 PM
If he's such a great game day coach how come his mid to late season record over say the last 12 games of every year is at or below .500 except for 2005 Seems like in 12+ years of post Elway coaching he'd have his team acending as the season wears on instead he starts fast early and ride that early season success to a mediore record and into a playoff blowout

Teams don't really start to gameplan till around week 4. Coincidence? I think not

This is extremely simple and I have covered it here many times. Teams gameplan every game, they do NOT skip the first four. What they do not have is current film of teams to break down until after week four and find weaknesses and tendencies to exploit. Then, the great coaching minded scheme the hell out of weeks 5-11 in order to exploit the mismatches and gain advantage. By week 12 however, scheme and gameplanning can not cover up any more and the players ability to execute one on one becomes the most important factor in wins.

These 3 mini seasons are completely indicative of Shanahan's great early season record as he takes players who lack complete skill and gets wins out of them. By the end of the year, its a dog fight and the inability to obtain and keep quality players who really make a difference shows. He also has fubared way too many defenses with the wrong schemes and personnel to make plays down the stretch. No enough quality defensive players on the DL to impact when its beatt eh guy in front of you time.

OBF1
11-13-2012, 04:03 PM
But....but.... It is Mike "The Genius" Shannahan, I am sure your stats are way off Chris. Check them again :)

lonestar
11-13-2012, 04:09 PM
But....but.... It is Mike "The Mastermind" Shannahan, I am sure your stats are way off Chris. Check them again :)

fixed that for you..

I remember saying years ago that Pat should have forced a real GM to make personnel decisions that he would win more games with better player and coaches.. I got laughed off the other forums..

Having a guy like what Elway is doing now or having Ozzie Newsome here bringing in talent at the time just how much better does anyone think we could have been..

Rock Chalk
11-13-2012, 04:15 PM
I disagree with this entirely.

Let's review this "competitive" division.

Foreskins - Suck
Philly - Major Suck
Dallas - Epic Suck
Giants - OK they are defending SB champs but they damn sure haven't looked very good the last 3 weeks.

If, by competitive division, you mean, teams that mostly suck, yes, you are right. The AFC North, NFC West, NFC North and possibly the NFC South are all far more competitve IMO.

Traditonally? Yes, that division is pretty tough. Lately? Dude, its the Giants and everyone else.
lol

3 years ago many claimed "he'd never coach in the NFL again".

Fact is: The guy remains in the best in the business. He inherited a complete mess at every level of the organization, complete with over a hundred million invested in Albert ****ing Haynesworth. Now you see a responsible organization building great depth with a LOT of budding superstars from Griffin to Kerrigan to Fred Davis to Orakpo etc... and speaking of the last two, he's fielding a team in the most competitive division in the NFL (or close) that's competing at a very high level with a handful of their best players on the IR.

Imagine if we lost OUR best pass rusher, OUR top two best receiving options, our best DL and more.

The discussion is nonsense and I will not hear it.

Si-lence! Not hear it, I say!

Action
11-13-2012, 04:19 PM
Shanahan is a horrible head coach/GM. His teams will never maintain the competitiveness of your top teams in the league... he doesn't preach or coach any sort of physicality.

Broncos players were even surprised they had to STRETCH when McDaniels got here...that's pretty damn sad at the professional level.

If anything, Shanahan needs to be put in a box lik Kubiak and just take care of the offense while letting a DC taking care of the defense and a GM taking care of player personel.

We know this would never happen though with Shanhan's power hungry ass...

baja
11-13-2012, 04:24 PM
If you want to know where Mike Shanahan is coming from just look at the house he had built in Cherry Hills

http://www.celebrityhousepictures.com/mike-shanahan.php

Who builds a 35,000 sq ft. house???

lonestar
11-13-2012, 05:23 PM
Shanahan is a horrible head coach/GM. His teams will never maintain the competitiveness of your top teams in the league... he doesn't preach or coach any sort of physicality.

Broncos players were even surprised they had to STRETCH when McDaniels got here...that's pretty damn sad at the professional level.

If anything, Shanahan needs to be put in a box lik Kubiak and just take care of the offense while letting a DC taking care of the defense and a GM taking care of player personel.

We know this would never happen though with Shanhan's power hungry ass...


Wow now this is something we can agree on.. Did not think common ground was out there..

lonestar
11-13-2012, 05:24 PM
If you want to know where Mike Shanahan is coming from just look at the house he had built in Cherry Hills

http://www.celebrityhousepictures.com/mike-shanahan.php

Who builds a 35,000 sq ft. house???

someone that needs that big a place to fit his ego in..

Cito Pelon
11-13-2012, 06:31 PM
If you want to know where Mike Shanahan is coming from just look at the house he had built in Cherry Hills

http://www.celebrityhousepictures.com/mike-shanahan.php

Who builds a 35,000 sq ft. house???

And floats a giant leprechaun balloon above it for good luck. And says year after year "We're only a couple of players away . . ." I used to say long ago this is the Denver Broncos, not the Denver Shanahans. Shanny really thought it was the Denver Shanahans.

baja
11-13-2012, 06:34 PM
And floats a giant leprechaun balloon above it for good luck. And says year after year "We're only a couple of players away . . ." I used to say long ago this is the Denver Broncos, not the Denver Shanahans. Shanny really thought it was the Denver Shanahans.

Wonder what the Washington fan base thinks of the "Master Mind" these days?

He did dismantle a pretty good 4 - 3 defense in record time though.

lonestar
11-13-2012, 07:01 PM
Wonder what the Washington fan base thinks of the "Master Mind" these days?

He did dismantle a pretty good 4 - 3 defense in record time though.

went from number 10 IIRC to 29 in one year..

RedskinBronco
11-13-2012, 07:37 PM
Wonder what the Washington fan base thinks of the "Master Mind" these days?

He did dismantle a pretty good 4 - 3 defense in record time though.

They are all waking up to it THIS season.

I knew this would happen as soon he took over. He doesn't have a clue about defense.

The lakers will have the same issue with D'Antoni, another coach who has no clue what defense is.

Say what you will about Greg Williams, bounty or no bounty, the man was a top notch defensive coordinator. Now, it's complete joke and won't end until Shanahan is out.

Also keep in mind, this is the NFC East. The fans of these teams expect defense, physical play and tough football in the trenches. I am not saying AFC west is a pansy division, because it's still football, but AFC West is known more historically for offense and shootouts.

So, not only are stats for skins D this year HORRIBLY bad, but it's shocking to a fan base that knows what "defense" is supposed to look like. Shanahan defenses do not come close to passing the NFC East defense EYE TEST.

SeedReaver
11-13-2012, 07:53 PM
Haven't Jerry Jones, Dan Snyder, and the late Al Davis all shown us that money =/= wins?

baja
11-13-2012, 08:07 PM
They are all waking up to it THIS season.

I knew this would happen as soon he took over. He doesn't have a clue about defense.

The lakers will have the same issue with D'Antoni, another coach who has no clue what defense is.

Say what you will about Greg Williams, bounty or no bounty, the man was a top notch defensive coordinator. Now, it's complete joke and won't end until Shanahan is out.

Also keep in mind, this is the NFC East. The fans of these teams expect defense, physical play and tough football in the trenches. I am not saying AFC west is a pansy division, because it's still football, but AFC West is known more historically for offense and shootouts.

So, not only are stats for skins D this year HORRIBLY bad, but it's shocking to a fan base that knows what "defense" is supposed to look like. Shanahan defenses do not come close to passing the NFC East defense EYE TEST.

How long do you think he will survive?

Cito Pelon
11-13-2012, 08:08 PM
They are all waking up to it THIS season.

I knew this would happen as soon he took over. He doesn't have a clue about defense.

The lakers will have the same issue with D'Antoni, another coach who has no clue what defense is.

Say what you will about Greg Williams, bounty or no bounty, the man was a top notch defensive coordinator. Now, it's complete joke and won't end until Shanahan is out.

Also keep in mind, this is the NFC East. The fans of these teams expect defense, physical play and tough football in the trenches. I am not saying AFC west is a pansy division, because it's still football, but AFC West is known more historically for offense and shootouts.

So, not only are stats for skins D this year HORRIBLY bad, but it's shocking to a fan base that knows what "defense" is supposed to look like. Shanahan defenses do not come close to passing the NFC East defense EYE TEST.

Well, Shanny toured the league during his year off asking for invites to teams TC's that ran the 3-4 to get educated, got some invites, observed, decided he knew what was what with the 3-4, then hired Jim Haslett from the Arena Football League to be the DC, and there they are right now.

RedskinBronco
11-13-2012, 08:14 PM
How long do you think he will survive?

People are wanting his head this season and the media is starting to plant the seeds, if you will. If he finishes 6-10 or worse, it will be a full ****storm in the media this offseason.

My own personal opinion is Snyder gives him next season and he is basically on watch. He MUST produce playoffs next season or he is out IMO.

5 of the last 7 games are against the NFC East, so best thing Shanahan can do to keep the wolves away is to do some damage in these next 5 divisional games and at the very least ruin teams seasons (i.e., Dallas, NYG)

They will REALLY come after him if they lose this next game at home to Philly who is even more dysfunctional and coming in with a rookie QB. However that might be a bad thing, as I saw a stat that since 2007 the skins are 0-6 against rookie QBs!

baja
11-13-2012, 08:36 PM
Don't know how it's been in Washington by the last three years (at least) here in Denver Shanny teams faded badly and in the last three games of the last two years the players flat quit on him with a playoff spot still available. Worse two seasons for me as a Broncos fan in 42 years of following the team.

RedskinBronco
11-13-2012, 08:44 PM
Don't know how it's been in Washington by the last three years (at least) here in Denver Shanny teams faded badly and in the last three games of the last two years the players flat quit on him with a playoff spot still available. Worse two seasons for me as a Broncos fan in 42 years of following the team.

Yep, and that's why I am so sensitive to it haha.

I remember all those debacles during his time in Denver. No adjustments, flat out pathetic collapses. Sigh.

At least the Broncos have their **** together and have that energy about them with Fox at the helm and JDR emphasizing an aggressive, energetic, fast D

gunns
11-28-2012, 07:37 PM
someone that needs that big a place to fit his ego in..

OMG, I wonder how big Rev's house is?!?!

Couldn't resist and I know just how many of you were thinking the same thing and chuckling.

ZONA
11-28-2012, 08:46 PM
It's obvious Shanny has done his best, either as a coordinator or HC, when he has an elite QB. That is the biggest luxury in the NFL, to have one of those top 3 or 4 guys who can sling it at the highest level. Looks like RG3 could be one of those guys someday but as a rookie that's a big chore.

Rohirrim
11-28-2012, 08:48 PM
Snyder should fire Shanahan and hire Chip Kelly. Chip with RGIII would be intense.

Lestat
11-28-2012, 08:50 PM
Snyder should fire Shanahan and hire Chip Kelly. Chip with RGIII would be intense.

no the Panthers or Eagles should hire Chip Kelly. RGIII is in good hands with Shanahan and changing coaches would stunt his growth(granted, only slightly)

Agamemnon
11-28-2012, 08:51 PM
It's obvious Shanny has done his best, either as a coordinator or HC, when he has an elite QB. That is the biggest luxury in the NFL, to have one of those top 3 or 4 guys who can sling it at the highest level. Looks like RG3 could be one of those guys someday but as a rookie that's a big chore.

Won't fix the fact that he is poison to defenses...

errand
11-28-2012, 09:03 PM
Snyder should fire Shanahan and hire Chip Kelly. Chip with RGIII would be intense.

Yeah, they said the same thing about Steve Spurrier.....few college coaches can make the jump to NFL....but maybe Kelly can, who knows right?

DBroncos4life
11-28-2012, 09:18 PM
Yeah, they said the same thing about Steve Spurrier.....few college coaches can make the jump to NFL....but maybe Kelly can, who knows right?

Coaches with no NFL experience or college coaches in general? If you mean in general then you need to take a harder look at what has been going on in the NFL recently.

Lestat
11-28-2012, 10:13 PM
Yeah, they said the same thing about Steve Spurrier.....few college coaches can make the jump to NFL....but maybe Kelly can, who knows right?

to me the failures have more to do with the quality of assistants than the step up of level. same thing happens in college, bad assistants, bad results.

now there are some who can't relate to their players and as such can't get through to them to coach them.

lonestar
11-28-2012, 11:12 PM
Snyder should fire Shanahan .

Fixed that for you..

ol#7
11-29-2012, 05:26 AM
Fixed that for you..

Figures you would have to pop in, even though the Skins just won 2 straight division games, and are looking to get back to 500 and a game out of first if they win a 3rd.

You sir are a tool.

Now go shake your fist at that kid who just stepped on your lawn.

Punisher
11-29-2012, 05:45 AM
Redskins win the division next year. RG3 is that good

BroncoInferno
11-29-2012, 06:57 AM
Wonder what the Washington fan base thinks of the "Master Mind" these days?

He did dismantle a pretty good 4 - 3 defense in record time though.

The bizarre thing wasn't so much the switch to the 3-4, it was the fact that he brought in a coach to implement it who was primarily a 4-3 guy (Haslett).

TonyR
11-29-2012, 06:59 AM
no the Panthers or Eagles should hire Chip Kelly.

The issue from the Eagles' standpoint would be that hiring Kelly would mean keeping Vick to run that offense, and I can't see them doing that unless he would restructure. His 2013 salary is $15.5 million.

TonyR
11-29-2012, 07:00 AM
Redskins win the division next year. RG3 is that good

Well the question remains whether or not they'll be able to put enough talent around him.

RedskinBronco
11-29-2012, 07:01 AM
to me the failures have more to do with the quality of assistants than the step up of level. same thing happens in college, bad assistants, bad results.

now there are some who can't relate to their players and as such can't get through to them to coach them.

That could be true for some guys, but it was all spurrier's fault here.

The guy was lazy and played golf rather than game plan. I believe it was Antonio Pierce who said recently that spurrier didn't even know who many of the players were especially on defense and on special teams.

He was a lazy bum here and thinking he was smarter than everyone else. This is the NFL, everyone is an athlete. If you don't game plan and look to exploit weaknesses, you will get embarrassed and be out of the league quick.

Spurrier never put the time in or learned how this league works and didn't seem to care either.

Requiem
11-29-2012, 07:17 AM
Redskins review: A rookie QB who is one of the leagues more efficient passers, a rooke RB from the 6th round who is on pace for over 1,400 yards on the ground this year with a patchwork OL filled with turds the world over. Keep in mind that they have their best defensive players on IR -- I'd say that all things considered, the Redskins are doing fairly well. Losing a couple of close ones over the past five weeks (especially Carolina) sucked. However, this game against the Giants is their statement game. They need it to win. It makes a WC birth more possible and keeps the division within their reach. If they lose, their season is probably done, but it is likely that a 8-8 or 9-7 record will be a #6 seed in the NFC.

baja
11-29-2012, 07:26 AM
I have been vocal about my disappointments concerning Shanahan but I'll say this I would hate to meet him in the SB. Give him two weeks to prepare for 1 game and he is deadly.

Kaylore
11-29-2012, 08:15 AM
I think the Redskins can beat the Giants. He's done pretty well against them since he's been there, it seems.

TonyR
11-29-2012, 08:25 AM
People keep underestimating this Giants team. This team just repeatedly wins backs against the wall, must win, and big games. Last year they were 7-7 and won their last two games to make the playoffs and then went on to win the Super Bowl. This year two of their "big" games were at San Fran (a rematch of the 2011 NFCCG) and last week against Green Bay (and 2011 playoffs rematch against a team on its way up, having won 5 straight, while the Giants were struggling having lost their last two). They won both games decisively. So I can't imagine betting against the Giants in a must win game against this mediocre Redskins team.

Kaylore
11-29-2012, 09:33 AM
Shanahan's teams play down to their opponents, but many times they play over their heads against good teams. Last year he swept the Giants. He barely lost to them this year in Jersey. I don't think the Giants losing to the Redskins is out of the question. Nor do I think it would impact their ability to go on a run.

Tombstone RJ
11-29-2012, 09:39 AM
Shanny's Skins have no chance against the Giants in the playoffs. None. The Giants have something the skins don't: a defense.

RedskinBronco
11-29-2012, 04:53 PM
Shanny's Skins have no chance against the Giants in the playoffs. None. The Giants have something the skins don't: a defense.

This is true, however the main theme that has come from this season is the redskins are always in a game as long as RGIII is playing.

But you are right from "on paper" standpoint. I would gladly take a 1 game playoff matchup against the Giants and something tells me they want to avoid it despite the redskins defensive issues...

Cruz talked a little smack this week about the redskins being a couple of pieces away and he is right, especially for the defense, but make no mistake the NFC east teams (including the Giants) are starting to get scared. That's why Mara pulled that salary cap penalty BS, he knows what is coming for his precious Giants.

Tombstone RJ
11-29-2012, 06:12 PM
This is true, however the main theme that has come from this season is the redskins are always in a game as long as RGIII is playing.

But you are right from "on paper" standpoint. I would gladly take a 1 game playoff matchup against the Giants and something tells me they want to avoid it despite the redskins defensive issues...

Cruz talked a little smack this week about the redskins being a couple of pieces away and he is right, especially for the defense, but make no mistake the NFC east teams (including the Giants) are starting to get scared. That's why Mara pulled that salary cap penalty BS, he knows what is coming for his precious Giants.

I guess I'll believe it when I see it. If the Skins can get into the playoffs I'll give Shanny some props. But this team is wildly inconsistent and having a damn rookie QB carry the stupid team is all on Shanny. When this team craps the bed, Shanny needs to look in the mirror instead of blame shift.

errand
11-29-2012, 06:20 PM
Coaches with no NFL experience or college coaches in general? If you mean in general then you need to take a harder look at what has been going on in the NFL recently.

Harbaugh and Carroll are two who came from the college ranks and have had some success......but for everyone of those I can name former successful NCAA head coaches John McKay, Steve Spurrier, Lou Holtz, Bobby Petrino, and Nick Saban who have absolutely sucked as NFL head coaches.

TheReverend
11-29-2012, 06:22 PM
I guess I'll believe it when I see it. If the Skins can get into the playoffs I'll give Shanny some props. But this team is wildly inconsistent and having a damn rookie QB carry the stupid team is all on Shanny. When this team craps the bed, Shanny needs to look in the mirror instead of blame shift.

^ Yes. It's clearly his fault they lost their best defensive player, their best defensive lineman, their all-star tight end, and their stud WR (for most of the year).

The nerve of that guy Ha!

Tombstone RJ
11-29-2012, 06:27 PM
^ Yes. It's clearly his fault they lost their best defensive player, their best defensive lineman, their all-star tight end, and their stud WR (for most of the year).

The nerve of that guy Ha!

injuries are part of the game, every team has them. You are a shanny apologist which is fine, but I'm a realist.

DBroncos4life
11-29-2012, 06:31 PM
injuries are part of the game, every team has them. You are a shanny apologist which is fine, but I'm a realist.

If Fred Davis is an all-star TE I want to know what Graham, TG, Gronk, and Witten are. All world maybe?

DBroncos4life
11-29-2012, 06:44 PM
Harbaugh and Carroll are two who came from the college ranks and have had some success......but for everyone of those I can name former successful NCAA head coaches John McKay, Steve Spurrier, Lou Holtz, Bobby Petrino, and Nick Saban who have absolutely sucked as NFL head coaches.

Greg Schiano? Last three college coaches to make the jump to the NFL are improving their teams. I don't care if you can go back to the 50's to help prove your case. That doesn't change what I said at all.

TheReverend
11-29-2012, 06:49 PM
injuries are part of the game, every team has them. You are a shanny apologist which is fine, but I'm a realist.

No... If you were a realist, you'd notice that's a lot of talent sidelined. WAY more than the usual that "every team has"

How well do you think Denver would be doing without:

Miller, Elvis, Demaryius and Tamme?

baja
11-29-2012, 07:05 PM
The thing is Shanny has always had a slew of injuries on his teams except for the SB years. I think it points to training regimes. We seem to be doing so much better with injuries now that Tuten is gone.

Tombstone RJ
11-29-2012, 07:09 PM
No... If you were a realist, you'd notice that's a lot of talent sidelined. WAY more than the usual that "every team has"

How well do you think Denver would be doing without:

Miller, Elvis, Demaryius and Tamme?

The 2003-4 Patriots disagree. The 2010-11 Packers disagree. The Houston Texans managed to get to the playoffs with TJ Yates, and win a playoff game. Injuries happen.

That One Guy
11-29-2012, 07:10 PM
The thing is Shanny has always had a slew of injuries on his teams except for the SB years. I think it points to training regimes. We seem to be doing so much better with injuries now that Tuten is gone.

I think everyone expected that to happen when Tuten was fired but it seems like there was still quite a few last year. I think we're just getting lucky.

I think people who are habitually injured just have a higher risk to injury. Shanny has never been afraid of taking on a health risk. That means a lot of the players he ends up with are talented but oft injured so he'll have dangerous teams that will have to be extremely lucky to make it through a season unscathed on the injury front.

baja
11-29-2012, 07:20 PM
I think everyone expected that to happen when Tuten was fired but it seems like there was still quite a few last year. I think we're just getting lucky.

I think people who are habitually injured just have a higher risk to injury. Shanny has never been afraid of taking on a health risk. That means a lot of the players he ends up with are talented but oft injured so he'll have dangerous teams that will have to be extremely lucky to make it through a season unscathed on the injury front.

Good point that certainly has to be a contributing factor.

But when certain teams are always leaders in injuries it has to be more than just bad luck. For example since we got rid of Tuten we have had far less hammys and other stretching type injuries

TheReverend
11-29-2012, 07:37 PM
The 2003-4 Patriots disagree. The 2010-11 Packers disagree. The Houston Texans managed to get to the playoffs with TJ Yates, and win a playoff game. Injuries happen.

I noticed you completely dodged the question. :thumbsup:

broncosteven
11-29-2012, 07:42 PM
Shanahan's teams play down to their opponents, but many times they play over their heads against good teams. Last year he swept the Giants. He barely lost to them this year in Jersey. I don't think the Giants losing to the Redskins is out of the question. Nor do I think it would impact their ability to go on a run.

It sure seems to me that there are a couple games each year he doesn't seem to put the same amount of prep into. They usually seem to be non conference games and the team just comes out and looks flat and things spiral out of control. There was a Detroit blow out a couple years ago that comes to mind.

Not sure if that is still true now that he is with Washington.

broncosteven
11-29-2012, 07:45 PM
That could be true for some guys, but it was all spurrier's fault here.

The guy was lazy and played golf rather than game plan. I believe it was Antonio Pierce who said recently that spurrier didn't even know who many of the players were especially on defense and on special teams.

He was a lazy bum here and thinking he was smarter than everyone else. This is the NFL, everyone is an athlete. If you don't game plan and look to exploit weaknesses, you will get embarrassed and be out of the league quick.

Spurrier never put the time in or learned how this league works and didn't seem to care either.

I remember seeing a Spurier interview where he admitted to wanting to be home for dinner and have time to golf. He was acting like the rest of the NFL should turn it's lights off at 6pm like he was going to set some precedence and the rest of the coaches would follow suit or he actually though he was smarter than the rest of the coaches and his system would send them scrambling. He may be a good HC at the college level but you need to bring it big time at the NFL level.

Tombstone RJ
11-29-2012, 07:48 PM
I noticed you completely dodged the question. :thumbsup:

I answered your question with facts and history. I have no idea how the Broncos would do without those players, and neither do you.

gunns
11-29-2012, 07:49 PM
I noticed you completely dodged the question. :thumbsup:

I don't think he dodged because there is no way we'd know how the Broncos would do without those players. I think Miller would be the only real significant loss, irreplaceable, but that's my opinion. I think he pointed out teams that had succeeded despite significant loss because we know how they did when that happened.

errand
11-29-2012, 08:00 PM
Greg Schiano? Last three college coaches to make the jump to the NFL are improving their teams. I don't care if you can go back to the 50's to help prove your case. That doesn't change what I said at all.

Ok...wow, that's 3 exceptions to the rule.....and none of those I mentioned are from the 50's.....

lonestar
11-29-2012, 08:07 PM
Shanahan's teams play down to their opponents, but many times they play over their heads against good teams. Last year he swept the Giants. He barely lost to them this year in Jersey. I don't think the Giants losing to the Redskins is out of the question. Nor do I think it would impact their ability to go on a run.

IIRC those Giants did not play well until later in the year.. Remember watching news/sports from NYC and lots of folks were calling for his head AGAIN.. Then they go on a run and win the SB he is a hero.. AGAIN

RedskinBronco
11-29-2012, 08:08 PM
I guess I'll believe it when I see it. If the Skins can get into the playoffs I'll give Shanny some props. But this team is wildly inconsistent and having a damn rookie QB carry the stupid team is all on Shanny. When this team craps the bed, Shanny needs to look in the mirror instead of blame shift.

I guess you haven't seen my posts. I actually agree with you about Shanny; believe me I was cringing when he was hired here because I know he doesn't know a lick of defense and defense is critical in the NFC East.

It speaks VOLUMES of RGIII that he is single handedly carrying this team and Kyle Shanahan is showing he is a very capable offensive coach, to the point where there are rumors that he is on the eagles list for head coach candidates.

But unless MS gets at least an average defense, the skins will not be winning a SB with him. Playoffs? Sure, they can get in and maybe win a matchup or two but no way on SB until that defense becomes average MINIMUM

RedskinBronco
11-29-2012, 08:13 PM
I remember seeing a Spurier interview where he admitted to wanting to be home for dinner and have time to golf. He was acting like the rest of the NFL should turn it's lights off at 6pm like he was going to set some precedence and the rest of the coaches would follow suit or he actually though he was smarter than the rest of the coaches and his system would send them scrambling. He may be a good HC at the college level but you need to bring it big time at the NFL level.

No doubt. It was embarrassing how he thought his "pitch and catch" with Weurfell/Mathews and his other former Gators was going to beat top notch athletes that ALL NFL teams have LOL

DBroncos4life
11-29-2012, 08:16 PM
Ok...wow, that's 3 exceptions to the rule.....and none of those I mentioned are from the 50's.....

Did I not say recently? 3 is an exception to the rule, when the last three college coaches are winning in the NFL. Also not once did I say any of those guys were from the 50's I said you COULD go all the way back to the 50's if you want hell you went to the 70's as it was. That doesn't change the fact that college the last three college coaches that made the jump to the NFL have had success. Hence why I said RECENTLY!!!!!!!!! All three of those coaches have had NFL experience as well, that is why I asked the question the way I did. Chip Kelly on the other hand has no NFL coaching experience.