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View Full Version : Robert Ayers -Part Deux- vs Carolina


fontaine
11-12-2012, 01:47 PM
I'm creating this thread to try and log all of Ayers' snaps in this game. We all saw the big plays and tremendous group pass rush so how did Ayers do on each snap?

Let's get to it:

Ayers 1st snap - Lined up over the LT

1st and 10 at Denver's 23: Carolina's opening drive marching down the field.

No blocker for Ayers as it's an inside run and the LT smashes down inside. Ayers reads the RB going right and does a decent job of redirecting to the inside to make the tackle from behind. Minimal gain.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 01:53 PM
Ayers 2 snap - Lined up over the LT

2nd and 7 (next play):
Ayers doesn't anticipate/catch the snap and gets off slow. As a result he gets caught in the wall when the OL have set their feet and created a good pocket.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 02:02 PM
Ayers was off the field then as Carolina finished off the drive with a TD to Olsen. He was back on the field on their next drive with the defense having made a couple of good stops to pin Carolina deep in their own half.

Ayers 3 snap - Lined up over the RT - Cam in shogun with an H back set.

3rd and 8: Von peels off the line back into coverage, all three DL get great quickness of the snap. Ayers gets a great chip block from the TE to push him back taking him out of the pass rush.

Cam has time and throws one deep incomplete (Carter had good coverage on Murphy) but it's a penalty with illegal hands right up in Doom's grill.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 02:12 PM
Ayers 4 snap - Lined up over the LT - Cam in shogun with a lone back.

1st and 10 on Carolina's next drive after we score.
Three DL with Von on the outside.

Tremendous anticipation and burst off the snap. Ayers gets great explosion off the snap, whizzing past Gross who was leaving him to setup a screen to the left side anyway.

Ayers is probably thinking screen because of no blocker and as Cam winds up, Ayers does a very good job of elevating and closing off Cam's vision. Incomplete pass.

Bad throw by Cam but good effort by Ayers doing just enough. Not sure if he deflected the pass here or not.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 02:18 PM
Ayers 5th snap - Lined up over the LT - Cam in shotgun with a lone back, slot WR motions over behind LG.

2nd and 10 on the next play.
Three DL with Von on the outside (same formation).

Ayers again, gets great burst off the snap and doesn't get blocked by Gross, only to be completely fooled by the option read where Cam just fakes the handoff to the RB (who Ayers follows) and Cam runs out in Ayers' vacant space.

The slot WR motioning over behind the LG should have been his read to suspect something was up.

Not so good. Ha!

p7superfly
11-12-2012, 02:22 PM
He's growing up in front of us.

NFL is grown men on supplements and training 12 months a year.

Most DL that are legit 3 down guys take a few years to take their bodies from pizza and beer and all nighters to NFL level.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 02:27 PM
Ayers subbed out the next few plays.
Trindon makes a guest appearance in the red zone! Carolina back out on the field.

Ayers 6th snap:
1st and 10 on Carolina's 20. Ayers lined up over the RT.

Newton under Center with a lone back goes to a quick snap count (probably because Doom/Von had been harassing him so far) and it works. The 4 DL hardly are set and the ball is snapped.

Ayers gets caught up with his blocker, the run is over to the overloaded right side where the RB runs into a straight brick wall called Derek Wolfe. Very impressive from the rookie who's already played the equivalent of a college season. Minimal gain.

baja
11-12-2012, 02:32 PM
Great stuff Fontaine

You plan on doing a thread analyzing Wolfe's play?

fontaine
11-12-2012, 02:43 PM
Next play

Ayers 7th snap:
2nd and 10 with Cam in shotgun (again) and 4 wide.
3 DL with Vickerson/Bannan inside and Von lined up on the other edge.

Great burst off the snap by Ayers correctly anticipating. Only Cam in the backfield and this allows our front 4 to attack.

Ayers just gets great leverage underneath Gross and mauls him back right into Cam in around 2 seconds, Von was closing in and Vickerson jumps to block out another passing lane.

Great job of multi pass rush and by Ayers who just bull rushed a pro bowl LT almost into Cam.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 02:46 PM
Great stuff Fontaine

You plan on doing a thread analyzing Wolfe's play?

Thanks man, already did Wolfe a couple weeks back:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=107589&highlight=Wolfe

But I have to add Wolfe has really improved since I watched him against Oakland.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 02:56 PM
Ayers stayed on the field for 3rd down (next play)

Ayers 8th snap:
Cam in shotgun with lone back and 3 WR set with TE.

Ayers still lined up against Gross, great burst off the snap (again) and we blitz. Doom came back in briefly but you could tell he was favoring his arm.

If you rewatch this play you can see why Gross is rated highly. His footwork is smooth and all the time he's hand punching, pushing, using his arms to try and get leverage under Ayers.

But Ayers does a tremendous job of:
1. keeping his feet moving towards Cam
2. using his arms to swat/rip/counter punch Gross from latching on.

This isn't just a plain bull rush (even though it ends that way), it's setting up the LT with great punch and hand/arm strength.

Ayers ends up converging on Cam with Von from the other side and Cam can't even tuck it and run and is forced to hurry his pass ending up in a one hopper 6 yards short of the his guy.

Oh and all of this happened in a heartbeat, less than two seconds.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 03:07 PM
Here's another angle on that last play.

You can see Ayers shedding Gross with Cam in his sights.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 03:09 PM
Carolina punt, we score a FG.

I'm not going to cover the next play for Carolina's 1st and 10 as it was an end around away from Ayers who was lined up over the RT.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 03:17 PM
Next play

Ayers 10th snap.

2nd and 8 (from the end around only gained two as Harris read it well).

Ayers over the outside of the LT. Cam in shotgun with a lone back.

He does a great job of read and recognition. You can see him watching the play and reads run so instead of rushing upfield, tracks back behind the DL in pursuit to prevent a big gain. DL has it blocked anyway.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 03:27 PM
Just wanted to throw this in here.

JDR looking boss on the sidelines (no he didn't do the Superman celebration).

baja
11-12-2012, 03:29 PM
He looks like he could still suit up and play. ;D

Bet he's intense in practice

fontaine
11-12-2012, 03:36 PM
Ayers still on the field on the next play.

Ayers 11th snap.

3rd and 8 and the Panthers really struggling to get any offense going.
Ayers lined up over the RT this time, with two other DL.
Cam in shotgun with lone back and bunch trio formation of WRs loaded on the right.

See the difference here between Ayers and Malik Jackson on the other side? Ayers is well into his stride as Jackon is still in his original stance.

That being said, Ayers gets too upright here and the RT gets the initial shove and stands him up and out of the play. Cam fires one to the right sideline but it's called back on offensive pass interference.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 03:44 PM
Penalty pushes back Carolina 10 yards.

Ayers 12th snap -

Cam in shotgun to two back set (more protection).

We initially line up with three DL, Von shading the LG and we send another guy showing blitz but we drop both into coverage.

Ayers gets off to a good start but gets a tough chip by Olsen and he's washed out of the pass rush.

Derek Wolfe takes over and bull rushes his guy, forcing Cam to look away from S Smith to dump it off to Olsen for minimal gain (Leonhard/Harris lock him down). Well done coverage, well done Wolfe. Carolina forced to punt.

After three plays, Carolina's net gain is one yard.

ColoradoDarin
11-12-2012, 03:47 PM
Love these, but can you shrink down the pics a bit next time?

baja
11-12-2012, 03:49 PM
Love these, but can you shrink down the pics a bit next time?
decrease your screen size in your browser, works just as well.

TheReverend
11-12-2012, 04:01 PM
Are you busy on Tuesday evenings? You should go on one of TJs OM podcasts.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 04:05 PM
Love these, but can you shrink down the pics a bit next time?

Sure.

Carolina punt, we miss a FG and back to Ayers on their next drive and less than two minutes to the half.

1st and 10.
Ayers 13th snap.

Cam in shotgun, with lone back, Olsen chips Von at the line.

We still go with Ayers over at the LT, two DL and Von. Ayers uses his speed this time to get past Gross in quick time. Gross, completely out of position is forced to shove Ayers in the back in the nick of time but good solid speed rush there by Ayers.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 04:13 PM
Cam starts running the hurry up and completes a solid pass over the middle to Smith, then a screen and Carolina are knocking on the door.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 04:19 PM
2nd and 10 for Carolina on the same drive.

Pretty much the same base personal on offense/defense (Cam in shotgun with lone back, Ayers and 2 DL + Von).

Ayers 16th snap.

He again starts off well anticipating the snap and bursting forward. He pulls out a swim move on Gross (unbelievable).

fontaine
11-12-2012, 04:25 PM
And finishes off with a good closing burst into Cam.

Newton had to throw away the ball then and Gross pushed Ayers into the QB's knees.

Gross got away with a push in the back earlier, it's good to see Ayers adjusting this time.

Newton was shaken up on the play and Carolina had to take a timeout.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 04:33 PM
Next play, 3rd and ten.

Cam still in the shotgun with lone back.
We switch it up to three DL, Ayers again on Gross with Von lined up standing over the B gap, with Woodyard on a blitz.

Ayers 17th snap.

Ayers twists inside Von to shoot the B gap very fluidly and the entire pocket collapses and multiple rushers force Cam to run out of the pocket into a meaningless gain forcing the FG unit on.

FG misses.

End of Carolina's first half offense.

yerner
11-12-2012, 04:36 PM
nice work. love watching ayers lately. dude is a handful for any lineman right now.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 04:46 PM
Are you busy on Tuesday evenings? You should go on one of TJs OM podcasts.

Yeah, maybe but you guys have that down to a solid working routine and I appreciate listening to others about what they're seeing on the field.

fontaine
11-12-2012, 04:53 PM
I've run out of time.

Apart from one or two mediocre plays, and four/five others where the play was away from his side, Ayers got better and better.

He kept showing that great burst and acceleration off the snap and showed a couple more pass rush moves than just a straight up bull rush.

He played more DE here (didn't see him play DT) in this game, probably due to Doom getting hurt at the end of the first quarter. What I wasn't expecting was the leg drive, speed, and combination of moves against a top LT in Gross. I knew he could anchor against the run but I haven't seen this kind of play from him before - except for a few snaps here and there. And it wasn't as if we were sending multiple blitzers and pass rushers in there after Doom went down.

I'll try to finish off the 2nd half tomorrow, sorry guys, gotta run.

Lestat
11-12-2012, 04:59 PM
i'm so very glad Ayers has developed some better pass rushing skills.
i was hoping he would but was preparing for him to be just a run stopping DE.

hopefully we'll be able to see a front line of Doom-Vickerson-Wolfe-Ayers on a consistent basis.

TheReverend
11-12-2012, 05:09 PM
Yeah, maybe but you guys have that down to a solid working routine and I appreciate listening to others about what they're seeing on the field.

Would be fun. You already put the work in, might as well come talk about it.

LRtagger
11-12-2012, 05:44 PM
He's growing up in front of us.

NFL is grown men on supplements and training 12 months a year.

Most DL that are legit 3 down guys take a few years to take their bodies from pizza and beer and all nighters to NFL level.

Not to mention he played LB his first two seasons.

TonyR
11-12-2012, 05:46 PM
Thanks fontaine!

Hey, where's orangese7en to tell us again how much Ayers sucks?!?

Lestat
11-12-2012, 05:55 PM
Not to mention he played LB his first two seasons.

still shaking my head at that nonsense. a big ass 274 lb pure DL shifting to LB when he's never played the position and doesn't really have the instincts for it.

Ayers should have always been a DL. he's DE who can play DT as well.

LRtagger
11-12-2012, 06:20 PM
still shaking my head at that nonsense. a big ass 274 lb pure DL shifting to LB when he's never played the position and doesn't really have the instincts for it.

Ayers should have always been a DL. he's DE who can play DT as well.

No kidding. Think about where he would be if McDonald's hadnt wasted his first two seasons. He would be so much further along. Possibly to the point that we wouldn't have considered drafting Wolfe and moved on Doug Martin. Oh well

errand
11-12-2012, 06:32 PM
Thanks fontaine!

Hey, where's orangese7en to tell us again how much Ayers sucks?!?

He's not the only one who made that claim....many guys on here said he sucked, and bitched about him constantly

Lestat
11-12-2012, 06:56 PM
No kidding. Think about where he would be if McDonald's hadnt wasted his first two seasons. He would be so much further along. Possibly to the point that we wouldn't have considered drafting Wolfe and moved on Doug Martin. Oh well

no, we needed a DT regardless. our DL depth is still thin as crap.
we're one bad injury away from having almost nothing left in the cupboard.

OrangeSe7en
11-12-2012, 07:23 PM
Yeah, one of the cool things about what Carter is doing right now is, he's stepping up to the opportunity. Maybe it's contagious. When you have someone who won't let the opportunity pass him by, maybe it carries over to others. Same could be said for a couple of guys but Carter is the most obvious example.

Natedogg
11-17-2012, 05:46 PM
Just posting this again:

Ayers was the guy who batted the fumble to Carter to jolt our comeback against SD the first time.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1250295/nooorivers.gif

Mogulseeker
11-17-2012, 06:44 PM
Just posting this again:

Ayers was the guy who batted the fumble to Carter to jolt our comeback against SD the first time.

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1250295/nooorivers.gif

That was a smart play by Ayers.

Broncos_OTM
11-17-2012, 07:17 PM
Errand, you are getting annoying. Does it really matter who said what? Cant you just sit back and enjoy it, without playing superfan.

Ayers has surprised most EVERYONE this season. I thought he'd be a decent LDE but he has actually been a better RDE.

Get over yourself

Agamemnon
11-17-2012, 08:20 PM
I remember seeing flashes of this kind of play from the guy at the end of last season (three sacks in two games), and I was honestly encouraged. Then he gets demoted, and my optimism disappeared. Now it's back with a vengeance. I think Ayers may finally be developing into the guy he was drafted to be.

errand
11-17-2012, 08:42 PM
Errand, you are getting annoying. Does it really matter who said what? Cant you just sit back and enjoy it, without playing superfan.

Ayers has surprised most EVERYONE this season. I thought he'd be a decent LDE but he has actually been a better RDE.

Get over yourself

all I said was there were a lot of people who called the guy a bust...and the truth is that a lot of posters on here have called him a bust...including a few that now are praising him. If the truth bothers you, then I don't know what to tell you.

And not everyone is "surprised" by Ayers stepping up....he's getting more reps because he's finally taking the game and his career serious...and he's getting better coaching too....

and no I can't enjoy the defense playing better knowing that the some of the same clowns who trashed this team are now trying to jump on the bandwagon of the player(s) they called a bust, said he sucked, etc.......but carry on

baja
11-17-2012, 08:57 PM
I believed Maylock when he said Ayers can be the best player in his draft but he will need 3 seasons to develop.

That was not considering the lock out and the McD cluster fark.

Drek
11-18-2012, 04:17 AM
No kidding. Think about where he would be if McDonald's hadnt wasted his first two seasons. He would be so much further along. Possibly to the point that we wouldn't have considered drafting Wolfe and moved on Doug Martin. Oh well

1. Ayers playing LB was because Mike Nolan wanted to turn him into the next Adalius Thomas (270 pound 3-4 super versatile OLB, groomed by Nolan in Baltimore, then signed with the Pats and fell apart onside the system he was trained for). There was a plan in place, Ayers was even growing into it come year two before missing six weeks due to injury.

2. I'd still rather have Wolfe than Martin. Martin is getting some good production at RB but that is a short shelf life position and you can often find productivity there in later rounds. Wolfe has shown some real physical talents already and a great work ethic. Having both Wolfe and Ayers along with Doom and Miller is the first step towards developing the rush heavy front seven that the Giants have ridden to two titles in the last few years.

I say this as someone who was really hoping for Martin at our #1 pick too. Wolfe was the better choice for long term team building. When Manning retires we need a D that can shut people down while Osweiler gets up to game speed.

Dedhed
11-18-2012, 10:33 AM
Great stuff Fontaine! Ayers is certainly rounding into a solid contributor. I think the coaching, and being in hid natural position have allowed him to begin to realize his potential. If he can continue to grow and Wolfe, Jackson, et al can grow on similar curve this unit can be tremendous going forward.

Appreciate the work.

Rock Chalk
11-18-2012, 12:23 PM
If Osweiler is our QBOTF we are in trouble.
1. Ayers playing LB was because Mike Nolan wanted to turn him into the next Adalius Thomas (270 pound 3-4 super versatile OLB, groomed by Nolan in Baltimore, then signed with the Pats and fell apart onside the system he was trained for). There was a plan in place, Ayers was even growing into it come year two before missing six weeks due to injury.

2. I'd still rather have Wolfe than Martin. Martin is getting some good production at RB but that is a short shelf life position and you can often find productivity there in later rounds. Wolfe has shown some real physical talents already and a great work ethic. Having both Wolfe and Ayers along with Doom and Miller is the first step towards developing the rush heavy front seven that the Giants have ridden to two titles in the last few years.

I say this as someone who was really hoping for Martin at our #1 pick too. Wolfe was the better choice for long term team building. When Manning retires we need a D that can shut people down while Osweiler gets up to game speed.