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fontaine
11-05-2012, 01:17 PM
My analysis of Robert Ayers in the Cincy game.

I'm creating this thread because in the past I've been pretty unimpressed with Ayers. I've seen him play slow, sluggish and without much hustle.

So I was curious to see how he's developed after a couple seasons, a temporary position switch, time spent on IR and with multiple coordinators.

Let's get to it.

1st Quarter:
1st and 10 on Denver's 30 (after a long pass to Green down the sidelines).
-Ayers first snap of the game lined up over the LT.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 01:22 PM
You can see Ayers is watching the backfield as Denver suspects run.

Ayers then shows what effort and hustle is all about.

The play is a handoff to BJGE who moves to the right side. Ayers chases down the play in pursuit, vaults an OL and closes in.

Good thing too, because the RB jukes Trevathan and Ayers is there to clean up. Keep this up and you'll see this field a lot more often.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 01:24 PM
Ayers finishes with a nice wrap tackle for a minimal 1 yard gain.

ludo21
11-05-2012, 01:26 PM
love these threads, thanks fontaine!

fontaine
11-05-2012, 01:29 PM
2nd and 8: Same drive and Ayers stays in the game lined up over the LT.

He does a good job of seeing the run inside towards him and smashes down to close the hole forcing the RB outside. He tried to disengage and run after the ball carrier but too many bodies around/over him.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 01:43 PM
You're welcome Ludo21.

Ayers goes out the rest of the series. We score a TD.
Cincy on the next drive:

3rd and 22: Ayers next action on the field. Lined up at DT.

An all out jail break from our DL. Dumervil stunts inside and just tears upfield, Ayers swims across the face of the RG and pushes the pocket from inside and Dalton has back pedalled 10 yards into a nowhere pass.

Action
11-05-2012, 01:46 PM
You're welcome Ludo21.

Ayers goes out the rest of the series. We score a TD.
Cincy on the next drive:

3rd and 22: Ayers next action on the field. Lined up at DT.

An all out jail break from our DL. Dumervil stunts inside and just tears upfield, Ayers swims across the face of the RG and pushes the pocket from inside and Dalton has back pedalled 10 yards into a nowhere pass.

That looks like a screen pass...

fontaine
11-05-2012, 01:53 PM
Ayers next snap:

3rd and 6 on Cincy's 31 yard line.

Ayers now lines up in his THIRD position inside by Dumervil. At the snap he literally explodes and is faster into his step then Von and Doom.

This is what I expect from a first round pick.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 01:54 PM
That looks like a screen pass...

Yes, but the pass rush got there before the play could develop the secondary sniffed it out for a loss.

gyldenlove
11-05-2012, 01:59 PM
Yes, but the pass rush got there before the play could develop the secondary sniffed it out for a loss.

I believe Rahim Moore got in there and watched the ball fall incomplete.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 02:00 PM
Anyway, Ayers fights through the traffic inside, is the first one to flush Dalton out of the pocket and Woodyard is there to make sure Dalton doesn't scramble for the first.

Ayers forces Dalton into a hurried throw, and he doesn't plant his feet right throwing an incompletion. Punt!

fontaine
11-05-2012, 02:05 PM
Our offense punts on the next drive.

Cincy 1st and 10 deep in their own half looking to get a quick score with 1:45 left in the half.

Ayers next snap: Lined up beside Dumervil again at DT.

Again he gets off very quickly off the snap:

cmhargrove
11-05-2012, 02:06 PM
Maybe he figured out that Jason Hunter wants his job when the season is over?

fontaine
11-05-2012, 02:08 PM
In just under two seconds Dumervil/Ayers push the pocket back right into Dalton forcing him to make an early decision.

Dalton doesn't pull the trigger, tucks it and runs . . . . . right into Von for a sack!!

;D

Action
11-05-2012, 02:13 PM
I believe Rahim Moore got in there and watched the ball fall incomplete.

It was complete, Rahim Moore diagnosed the play quickly and made a great tackle behind the LOS

fontaine
11-05-2012, 02:15 PM
Ayers drops back into coverage the next down (pass doens't go towards him).

The next play he swims inside from DT and gets caught up with the Center.

Dalton rifles a pass for a first down to the 35 (from the 20). The cool thing about this play was that Ayers chased down the WR all the way back from the backfield - he was the only DL to do so. He didn't make the tackle but all around Great effort here for a DL.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 02:22 PM
Ayers played another snap when we rushed three.

Fox ices the kicker after yelling at the ref and the FG is missed! :)

That's it for the first half.

-so Ayers played around 7-8 snaps in the first half lining up everywhere, and generated a couple of nice pressures, and two high effort plays against the run. A lot better than I've seen from him before.

But probably the biggest thing was his burst off the snap. That really made me look twice at him when I saw it live.

Curiously Malik Jackson played around 4-5 snaps as well all at the strongside DE position. Looked very raw.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 02:27 PM
What's really stood out for me is the stark contrast between the teams in terms of pass rush.

Manning barely got touched, even with Ramirez playing, even on longer developing plays.

Dalton hardly had a clean pocket to throw from and Cincy started working him more from the shotgun but our pass rush still dominated and it wasn't just one guy. Von/Doom/Ayers/Wolfe, hell even Unrein had a very nice play in the first quarter where he twisted inside and pushed the G right into Dalton's lap.

And Cincy has one of the top pass rushing defenses in the league? GTFO!

TheReverend
11-05-2012, 02:28 PM
Fantastic per usual fontaine.

pricejj
11-05-2012, 02:34 PM
That's good that JDR is starting to play Ayers some at DT on passing downs. Vickerson and Bannan are good against the run, but offer nothing in pass-rush ability. Of course, that means Wolfe get's double-teamed...which isn't the greatest, but we'll have to make due. Maybe Ayers can continue to add 'juice' to the 3rd down pass-rush.

ColoradoBuff
11-05-2012, 02:46 PM
great job Fontaine!!!

fontaine
11-05-2012, 02:46 PM
Thanks Rev/Buff

I gotta take a break here from Ayers and give props to 81 Joel Dreessen who cleanly blocks his guy (being careful not to block him in the back) that opens a clean window for Holliday to return the next play to the house.

Lestat
11-05-2012, 02:48 PM
i must say, Ayers was getting a solid push and some nice pressure in the game against Cincy. i honestly thought it was someone else.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 02:55 PM
This is the kinda crap that really annoys me.

On Cincy's next drive we blitz Trevathan and someone else, coverage is great and Dalton is forced out of the pocket and makes a throw to his WR.

Moore misses the tackles and Cincy's deep in our half. Maybe I'm being harsh but I expect a starting safety to make this tackle or at least push him out of bounds.

Tombstone RJ
11-05-2012, 02:58 PM
Gresham is a hellova TE and I was pretty impressed with Dalton too. Kid's got an arm.

phibacka31
11-05-2012, 02:59 PM
While I agree on the Moore mistackle... he was getting held... I also swear to god that Rahim takes more crap then any other player...

(no I am not his mother)

fontaine
11-05-2012, 03:00 PM
Cincy score a TD two plays later.

Our offense marches down the field, overcoming drops, a minimal run game, only for Newman to grab an interception and all the momentum is back to Cincy.

gyldenlove
11-05-2012, 03:01 PM
This is the kinda crap that really annoys me.

On Cincy's next drive we blitz Trevathan and someone else, coverage is great and Dalton is forced out of the pocket and makes a throw to his WR.

Moore misses the tackles and Cincy's deep in our half. Maybe I'm being harsh but I expect a starting safety to make this tackle or at least push him out of bounds.

That play was a huge brainfart on Dumervil - the pass rush flushes Dalton out of the pocket, he rolls to his left which means it is going to be difficult for him to set his feet and throw (a right hander rolling left is at a disadvantage), Dumervil is in the short zone and he comes up to try to get Dalton, this leaves the flat zone completely open and Gresham (the TE) comes back to help Dalton wide open, Dalton makes the little flip and Gresham takes off, Moore is being blocked down field and in that situation he is trying to make sure he doesn't overplay and let Gresham into the field, but unfortunately he doesn't have enough power to disengage and force Gresham out of bounds.

All in all the play was well defended initially but then Dumervil leaves his zone which leaves the TE wide open on the route adjustment and Moore who makes the right call in keeping Gresham on the sideline then fails to disengage and make the tackle.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 03:01 PM
While I agree on the Moore mistackle... he was getting held... I also swear to god that Rahim takes more crap then any other player...

(no I am not his mother)

Sorry, but I'm tough on talented players that have all the skills compared to a late round pick etc.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 03:08 PM
Ayers first snap in the 2nd half.

Cincy's 2nd drive after scoring their TD.

3rd and 7 on the 23.

Ayers again lined up at DT beside Doom.

In just under 2.5 seconds, again Doom/Ayers collapse the pocket around Dalton. Ayers is especially impressive here because he trucks through two OL. But Dalton completes a pro bowl pass. Great play by the DL, great pass by the QB.

Bolden was in coverage and he had it locked down but it was just a great pass. The mistake Bolden made was that he looked off his WR at the wrong time and it results in another 25 yards after the catch.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 03:15 PM
Ayers was off the field the next couple of plays.

But I gotta show you this: 3rd and 6, big time play because the Bengals are marching down the field with momentum.

The two horsemen of the apocalypse converge on Dalton in under two seconds and Von lowers the boom. The great thing about this play was that Doom was right there as well and if not for him Dalton would have scrambled out of the sack.

It may be a 60 min game but sometimes it comes down to just a few split seconds.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 03:26 PM
A bunch of other stuff happens after the sack:

Cincy scores a FG, Manning throws a pick, Cincy get a short field and score, we come right back with DT/Decker and score.

The next time Ayers sees the field is on a 3rd and 15 play in Cincy's half (Cincy had been running the ball well at this point, kinda going hurry up so it wasn't easy to sub players in and out).

We go with the dreaded 3 man rush. God, I hate that and Dalton has time and throws a strike for a first down, except it's called back on a holding call.

No more 3 man rushes please!

fontaine
11-05-2012, 03:28 PM
So now it's 3rd and 20.

Still with the three man rush. Von/Doom outside and Ayers inside.

Ayers again, gets a great burst off the snap.

DBroncos4life
11-05-2012, 03:31 PM
Was Bannan the other DL guy with Wolfe to knock down a Dalton pass? I can't remember the last time that happened in a Broncos game.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 03:32 PM
. . . . And in quick time fights through the inside (and being held) and lays into Dalton forcing him to throw the ball without a clean pocket right into the hands of Bailey!

Just a great speed/strength play from Ayers inside off a three man rush (did I say I hated the three man rush? Ha! )

fontaine
11-05-2012, 03:33 PM
Was Bannan the other DL guy with Wolfe to knock down a Dalton pass? I can't remember the last time that happened in a Broncos game.

Yup it was Bannan.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 03:41 PM
Next Cincy drive and their desperate.

3rd and inches and Ayers sheds a blocker and along with Wolfe stops the RB cold, short of the first down marker (Cincy go for it the next play and convert).

fontaine
11-05-2012, 03:42 PM
Wolfe blocks the next pass.

Wes/Doom snuff out a screen the next play and our pass rush again gets to Dalton on 3rd down forcing Cincy to a FG.

A really effective game by Ayers. I was surprised at the amount of quality snaps he logged and provided a real presence in the interior.

That's it for me.

Bronco Boy
11-05-2012, 03:46 PM
This is the kinda crap that really annoys me.

On Cincy's next drive we blitz Trevathan and someone else, coverage is great and Dalton is forced out of the pocket and makes a throw to his WR.

Moore misses the tackles and Cincy's deep in our half. Maybe I'm being harsh but I expect a starting safety to make this tackle or at least push him out of bounds.

Was that Moore's first missed tackle all year though? I remember someone throwing out a stat saying as much last week.

Action
11-05-2012, 03:48 PM
This is the kinda crap that really annoys me.

On Cincy's next drive we blitz Trevathan and someone else, coverage is great and Dalton is forced out of the pocket and makes a throw to his WR.

Moore misses the tackles and Cincy's deep in our half. Maybe I'm being harsh but I expect a starting safety to make this tackle or at least push him out of bounds.

So you are going to completely disregard that Dumervil left Gresham to chase Dalton behind the LOS?

Action
11-05-2012, 03:53 PM
Sorry, but I'm tough on talented players that have all the skills compared to a late round pick etc.

Yeah, but you're going to completely ignore the fact that Moore made a great play on a blitz where all 5 rushers went towards the QB...

Moore sheds a block from an olineman and makes a tackle behind the LOS to blow up the screen.

Let's completely disregard this part of the play and highlight Robert Ayers, the ONLY player that had no/least amount of pressure on Dalton because he was getting blocked. And, the fact that it was a screen play, the pressure doesn't really mean much as a screen pass is more about the receiver getting free to catch the screen.

Action
11-05-2012, 03:54 PM
Was that Moore's first missed tackle all year though? I remember someone throwing out a stat saying as much last week.

I believe he had another missed tackle in the Saints game. However, I don't know if you would count that as a missed tackle on Greshman, considering he was being blocked/held.

fontaine
11-05-2012, 03:56 PM
So you are going to completely disregard that Dumervil left Gresham to chase Dalton behind the LOS?

Yeah, but you're going to completely ignore the fact that Moore made a great play on a blitz where all 5 rushers went towards the QB...

Moore sheds a block from an olineman and makes a tackle behind the LOS to blow up the screen.

Let's completely disregard this part of the play and highlight Robert Ayers, the ONLY player that had no/least amount of pressure on Dalton because he was getting blocked. And, the fact that it was a screen play, the pressure doesn't really mean much as a screen pass is more about the receiver getting free to catch the screen.


1. I'm not a defensive coach.
2. This thread isn't about logging every missed play, assignment break down etc.
3. This thread is (mostly) about Ayers - hint - read the title.
4. I'm literally:
- rewatching/rewinding every defensive play,
- tracking Ayers' snaps,
- down and distance,
- where he lines up and
- trying to watch as much of the DL as I can,
- while tracking Ayers' burst off the snap and closing speed.
- and taking screenshots along with trying to post at the same time in under 2 hours.

So yeah, I don't even have the time to disregard who's supposed to do what in coverage.

At this time I'm very tempted to say something unpleasant, but I'm not going to waste any more of my time.

Bye.

Action
11-05-2012, 03:59 PM
1. I'm not a defensive coach.
2. This thread isn't about logging every missed play, assignment break down etc.
3. This thread is (mostly) about Ayers - hint - read the title.
4. I'm literally:
- rewatching/rewinding every defensive play,
- tracking Ayers' snaps,
- down and distance,
- where he lines up and
- trying to watch as much of the DL as I can,
- while tracking Ayers' burst off the snap and closing speed.
- and taking screenshots along with trying to post at the same time in under 2 hours.

So yeah, I don't even have the time to disregard who's supposed to do what in coverage.

Considering that this whole post

This is the kinda crap that really annoys me.

On Cincy's next drive we blitz Trevathan and someone else, coverage is great and Dalton is forced out of the pocket and makes a throw to his WR.

Moore misses the tackles and Cincy's deep in our half. Maybe I'm being harsh but I expect a starting safety to make this tackle or at least push him out of bounds.

Has nothing to do with Robert Ayers, it kind of suggests that you aren't just looking at Robert Ayers.

You saw Rahim Moore's missed tackle, yet you didn't see Dumervil break his coverage.

DBroncos4life
11-05-2012, 04:09 PM
Considering that this whole post



Has nothing to do with Robert Ayers, it kind of suggests that you aren't just looking at Robert Ayers.

You saw Rahim Moore's missed tackle, yet you didn't see Dumervil break his coverage.

This thread is about Ayers. You are more then welcome to do this very thing for Moore if you would like. Way to piss on this thread you ****ing tool.

Action
11-05-2012, 04:12 PM
This thread is about Ayers. You are more then welcome to do this very thing for Moore if you would like. Way to piss on this thread you ****ing tool.

This is what I saw when I read the thread title:

Robert Ayers vs Cincinnati (and other stuff)

And I see the OP talking about other players...so...

And I'm a tool for trying to get the right analytics of a play? What?

DBroncos4life
11-05-2012, 04:16 PM
This is what I saw when I read the thread title:

Robert Ayers vs Cincinnati (and other stuff)

And I see the OP talking about other players...so...


I guess other stuff means you better not mother ****ing say something ill about Moore.

Houshyamama
11-05-2012, 04:17 PM
You see, if Action pulled this crap in real life he would probably get slapped upside the head and told to shut the **** up. That's the problem with the internet, no one can bitch slap Action right now.

Houshyamama
11-05-2012, 04:17 PM
dupe

Action
11-05-2012, 04:21 PM
I guess other stuff means you better not mother ****ing say something ill about Moore.

Moore just happens to be at the center of the plays I'm discussing, it doesn't matter who it is.

This is how it is at the orangemane ---> people incorrectly diagnose a players actions based on how they perceive a player through their feelings.

Matter of fact, people incorrectly diagnose the WHOLE play based on their feelings of a certain player.

I don't care that it's Moore, it could have been Mike Adams, Leohnard, Bruton... it's about getting the play right and crediting who deserves to be credited, and faulting who is really at fault.

Accountability, that's all it really is.

DBroncos4life
11-05-2012, 04:21 PM
You see, if Action pulled this crap in real life he would probably get slapped upside the head and told to shut the **** up. That's the problem with the internet, no one can b**** slap Action right now.

He keeps talking about how right he is about everything yet he has yet to do anything like this for the board. Seems like a poser.

Action
11-05-2012, 04:26 PM
He keeps talking about how right he is about everything yet he has yet to do anything like this for the board. Seems like a poser.

Well I have posted screen caps this season, namely during the Atlanta and San Diego game and others to show what has happened, but not to this thread level.

However, why are you guys mad at me when CLEARLY there is mis-information? Would you rather like to just drink the kool aid and see it as how you want to see it? Or do you actually want the correct information?

I'm trying to get the correct information.

Apparently, that's not very popular around here.

HorseHead
11-05-2012, 05:02 PM
great work..., really well done...

Watched Ayers have some nice push yesterday..., even though that phrase makes me extremely uncomfortable..

broncosteven
11-05-2012, 05:57 PM
1. I'm not a defensive coach.
2. This thread isn't about logging every missed play, assignment break down etc.
3. This thread is (mostly) about Ayers - hint - read the title.
4. I'm literally:
- rewatching/rewinding every defensive play,
- tracking Ayers' snaps,
- down and distance,
- where he lines up and
- trying to watch as much of the DL as I can,
- while tracking Ayers' burst off the snap and closing speed.
- and taking screenshots along with trying to post at the same time in under 2 hours.

So yeah, I don't even have the time to disregard who's supposed to do what in coverage.

At this time I'm very tempted to say something unpleasant, but I'm not going to waste any more of my time.

Bye.


Fontaine,

This was a great thread, thanks for your time! I also noticed Ayers during the game and think I commented on sighting him in the gameday thread.

Don't let one idiot bring you down.

Love these threads!

Steve

i4jelway7
11-05-2012, 06:01 PM
thx fontaine great thread!

bowtown
11-05-2012, 06:05 PM
Moore just happens to be at the center of the plays I'm discussing, it doesn't matter who it is.

This is how it is at the orangemane ---> people incorrectly diagnose a players actions based on how they perceive a player through their feelings.

Matter of fact, people incorrectly diagnose the WHOLE play based on their feelings of a certain player.

I don't care that it's Moore, it could have been Mike Adams, Leohnard, Bruton... it's about getting the play right and crediting who deserves to be credited, and faulting who is really at fault.

Accountability, that's all it really is.

Okay how about you go make a thread where you break everything down the way you see it? Oh no, you'd just rather whine about people who do take the time. Thanks for your contribution.

TheReverend
11-05-2012, 06:17 PM
1. I'm not a defensive coach.
2. This thread isn't about logging every missed play, assignment break down etc.
3. This thread is (mostly) about Ayers - hint - read the title.
4. I'm literally:
- rewatching/rewinding every defensive play,
- tracking Ayers' snaps,
- down and distance,
- where he lines up and
- trying to watch as much of the DL as I can,
- while tracking Ayers' burst off the snap and closing speed.
- and taking screenshots along with trying to post at the same time in under 2 hours.

So yeah, I don't even have the time to disregard who's supposed to do what in coverage.

At this time I'm very tempted to say something unpleasant, but I'm not going to waste any more of my time.

Bye.

Eventually you'll start saying that unpleasant thing you want to and then I can retire

baja
11-05-2012, 06:18 PM
Eventually you'll start saying that unpleasant thing you want to and then I can retire


Nah You are the undisputed champ of unpleasantness.

Nwp-Apap
11-05-2012, 06:48 PM
Loved that screen play Moore blew up, kids playing very well this season.

gyldenlove
11-05-2012, 07:10 PM
Have to give a lot of credit to JDR and Nunnely, they have turned some pretty average looking guys into stars, Bannan, Vickerson, Ayers, Unrein, Wolfe.

bowtown
11-05-2012, 07:26 PM
Have to give a lot of credit to JDR and Nunnely, they have turned some pretty average looking guys into stars, Bannan, Vickerson, Ayers, Unrein, Wolfe.

Nunnley is retired, is he not?

gyldenlove
11-05-2012, 07:30 PM
Nunnley is retired, is he not?

I don't remember hearing that but it is possible...

Action
11-05-2012, 07:39 PM
http://imageshack.us/a/img819/3476/21188394.jpg

Situation: 2nd quarter 9:07, 3rd and 22
ALERT Screen

BENGALS: 3 WR, 1 RB, 1 TE
BRONCOS: Looks like their dime package, 3 down lineman, 2 linebackers. Showing blitz

Bolden is getting field time, he is at the bottom of the screen.

http://imageshack.us/a/img255/3636/96207668.jpg

Obvious WR Screen. Chris Harris is brought in for the DB Blitz, and dropping Woodyard into coverage. Most Broncos rushers aren't even touched. Everyone gets pressure, mainly Dumervil, whom EXPLODES off the line. Ayers is the furthest from the play as he got blocked and had no pressure.

http://imageshack.us/a/img94/1297/37124918.jpg

Dalton gets the ball out just in time before getting knocked over by Dumervil in which he wanted a flag. NOPE.

Before #12 catches the ball, Rahim Moore has already diagnosed the play and is running towards #12. You can see him on the screen running in at FULL SPEED before #12 is even turned around. Chris Harris and Von Miller have also already diagnosed the play and hustle towards the ball.

http://imageshack.us/a/img545/9002/99095399.jpg

Rahim Moore at full speed, runs past an olineman who couldn't get his hands on him, and is able to shed the block of another olineman.

http://imageshack.us/a/img196/7096/63786075.jpg

Rahim Moore makes the tackle at full speed for a 5 yard loss, just as good as a sack. Chris Harris, Woodyard and Von Miller were all there to clean up in case anything happened.

Keep in mind, from the time #12 caught the ball to Rahim Moore tackling him, only 2 SECONDS went by. Keep this in perspective.

Good defensive execution by whole team.

Al Wilson
11-05-2012, 07:52 PM
You see, if Action pulled this crap in real life he would probably get slapped upside the head and told to shut the **** up. That's the problem with the internet, no one can b**** slap Action right now.
LMFAO

dsmoot
11-06-2012, 01:56 AM
Moore just happens to be at the center of the plays I'm discussing, it doesn't matter who it is.

This is how it is at the orangemane ---> people incorrectly diagnose a players actions based on how they perceive a player through their feelings.

Matter of fact, people incorrectly diagnose the WHOLE play based on their feelings of a certain player.

I don't care that it's Moore, it could have been Mike Adams, Leohnard, Bruton... it's about getting the play right and crediting who deserves to be credited, and faulting who is really at fault.

Accountability, that's all it really is.

ACTION,

You have still missed the point. Fontaine took the time and made the effort to point something out quite interesting to some of us. Maybe not you. Be positive. Instead of bringing a critical attitude about what someone may not have included in his post, be a contributor and ADD to it. Be thankful about what he did do and bring the rest of us something positive too. I am sure you have something to add. Almost all of us saw the game. However, we may have missed what you might have to ADD to the post. Criticism of any form is not ADDING. Think about WHY some of us have reacted so negatively to what you said.

dsmoot
11-06-2012, 02:02 AM
Well I have posted screen caps this season, namely during the Atlanta and San Diego game and others to show what has happened, but not to this thread level.

However, why are you guys mad at me when CLEARLY there is mis-information? Would you rather like to just drink the kool aid and see it as how you want to see it? Or do you actually want the correct information?

I'm trying to get the correct information.

Apparently, that's not very popular around here.

I posted about this on an earlier post. Sometimes the attitude trumps content lowering what you said to a level of ignorance.

fontaine
11-06-2012, 03:58 AM
That play was a huge brainfart on Dumervil - the pass rush flushes Dalton out of the pocket, he rolls to his left which means it is going to be difficult for him to set his feet and throw (a right hander rolling left is at a disadvantage), Dumervil is in the short zone and he comes up to try to get Dalton, this leaves the flat zone completely open and Gresham (the TE) comes back to help Dalton wide open, Dalton makes the little flip and Gresham takes off, Moore is being blocked down field and in that situation he is trying to make sure he doesn't overplay and let Gresham into the field, but unfortunately he doesn't have enough power to disengage and force Gresham out of bounds.

All in all the play was well defended initially but then Dumervil leaves his zone which leaves the TE wide open on the route adjustment and Moore who makes the right call in keeping Gresham on the sideline then fails to disengage and make the tackle.

Thanks, I rewatched it and it looks like you're spot on.

BowlenBall
11-06-2012, 04:10 AM
Great post fontaine -- one thing I love about the orange mane is that we'll occasionally get posts and threads that are more informative and insightful than anything you'll find in the Denver Post or the national media (the OM Podcast is another example of this).

I had been wondering about Robert Ayers lately... for someone who Mike Mayock said "could be the defensive player in the 2009 draft", he doesn't get a lot of mentions from the announcers when you watch the games.

How awesome would it be if he started consistently playing up to his potential? Imagine if we had another stud-daddy DT/LB to go along with Dumerville and Miller!

KevinJames
11-06-2012, 04:16 AM
Fontaine and Action, thanks for the picture analysis I love stuff like this.

Ayers was real solid on Sunday

Moore really shined with that that tackle on that screen play.

This is the kind of play I hope we continue to see from our high draft picks.

orinjkrush
11-06-2012, 09:19 AM
What's really stood out for me is the stark contrast between the teams in terms of pass rush.

Manning barely got touched, even with Ramirez playing, even on longer developing plays.

Dalton hardly had a clean pocket to throw from and Cincy started working him more from the shotgun but our pass rush still dominated and it wasn't just one guy. Von/Doom/Ayers/Wolfe, hell even Unrein had a very nice play in the first quarter where he twisted inside and pushed the G right into Dalton's lap.

And Cincy has one of the top pass rushing defenses in the league? GTFO!

wonder how much of that is due to Koppen? Seems like the line is gelling with him.

mwill07
11-06-2012, 10:13 AM
This is a good thread. Value >1.

one other thing to note: we have done an excellent job of sniffing out and breaking up screens. We used to get killed with a good screen - Chargers and raiders especially. Now, it seems like we have done a fantastic job of sniffing them out and stopping them for a loss - if the pass is even completed. Vickerson comes to mind as a screen-disrupt-er in previous games.

fontaine
11-06-2012, 10:58 AM
wonder how much of that is due to Koppen? Seems like the line is gelling with him.

From what I saw of Koppen a few weeks ago, he's not a power player that's going to out muscle guys.

But he does do a great job of using his hands/leverage to manuver guys and uses their momentum against them. He'll use multiple hand punches to keep a guy off balance and still moves pretty well in the 2nd level.

There were a couple of very well executed 2nd level blocks against Oakland, I think, where he cleared out defenders to get our WRs plenty of yards after the catch.

Walton has really improved though and Koppen's play so far really shows that he's capable of still playing at this level and really should be resigned for next year as well.

I'll try to get some screen captures of Koppen/Beadles and how they coped with Geno Atkins.

Honestly speaking I thought Cincy's pass rush was going to be a really tough challenge and the fact that our OL came through with flying colors in pass protection really emphasizes how far they've come as a group.

I can only remember one pressure on Manning where he threw that 2nd pick but apart from that he was kept clean.

underrated29
11-06-2012, 11:21 AM
Thanks man. Good thread.

I had no idea Ayers was getting off the ball so fast. If he could only keep the OL hands off him or stop trying to bull rush each guy, with that fast first step he might be lethal.

I had no idea he was doing anything remotely close to good. I thought he was just an eh, he is there kinda guy. Good to know and breakdown. Great read!

gyldenlove
11-06-2012, 11:36 AM
From what I saw of Koppen a few weeks ago, he's not a power player that's going to out muscle guys.

But he does do a great job of using his hands/leverage to manuver guys and uses their momentum against them. He'll use multiple hand punches to keep a guy off balance and still moves pretty well in the 2nd level.

There were a couple of very well executed 2nd level blocks against Oakland, I think, where he cleared out defenders to get our WRs plenty of yards after the catch.

Walton has really improved though and Koppen's play so far really shows that he's capable of still playing at this level and really should be resigned for next year as well.

I'll try to get some screen captures of Koppen/Beadles and how they coped with Geno Atkins.

Honestly speaking I thought Cincy's pass rush was going to be a really tough challenge and the fact that our OL came through with flying colors in pass protection really emphasizes how far they've come as a group.

I can only remember one pressure on Manning where he threw that 2nd pick but apart from that he was kept clean.

I have tried to keep an eye on Koppen and his weakness is definitely drive run blocking, he just doesn't have the power to move the NT out of the way on runs in the A-gaps. Walton was noticibly better at getting that initial burst to push the NT away from the gap.

On pass plays Koppen is very active with his hands and using excellent leverage, he doesn't get pushed back and he has good control both when playing against a 0 or 1 tech or when blocking out to support against a player lined up on the guard.

The most dangerous power run we have is definitely running behind Kuper and Franklin right at the C-gap with Beadles pulling, those 3 guys get so much push and penetration and really clear out the area.

Bronco Rob
11-06-2012, 10:03 PM
Well done fontaine! Had to do a DVR double take on Sunday when Ayers came busting through the line on 3rd and 25 (8:45 left in the 4th) forcing Dalton to throw the ball early, into the arms of Champ. If the three headed monster of Dumervil, Ayers and Miller can generate that kind of pressure on a consistent basis.....our third and long issues are OVAH!!!!



:thumbs:

Aftermath
11-07-2012, 12:04 AM
THanks a lot for the thread. Lets HOPE that JDR sticks around and this defense can keep improving every year. Orange Crush needs to come back.

Inkana7
11-07-2012, 09:22 AM
I don't remember hearing that but it is possible...

According to: http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/football-operations.html, Jay Rodgers is our D-Line coach.

Baba Booey
11-07-2012, 09:28 AM
Thanks for the analysis Fontaine. Always appreciate when someone takes the time to break down game footage.

gyldenlove
11-07-2012, 09:47 AM
According to: http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/football-operations.html, Jay Rodgers is our D-Line coach.

Well all credit to coach Rodgers then.

Rock Chalk
11-07-2012, 10:27 AM
Nah You are the undisputed champ of unpleasantness.

:wave:

Rock Chalk
11-07-2012, 10:28 AM
BTW fontaine, great stuff. Don't let any douchenozzles (Action) get you down brother. Keep on keeping on.

fontaine
11-11-2012, 12:41 PM
BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP















bump :)

Rock Chalk
11-11-2012, 01:05 PM
Ayers has had one HELL of a game today. If not for Von he would be player of the game.

DENVERDUI55
11-11-2012, 01:10 PM
Bob Ayres has been ballin'! He may be coming around now with proper coaching and experience. That makes several food games for him this year. Hopefully doom isn't hurt too bad.

gyldenlove
11-11-2012, 01:24 PM
This pass rush is absolutely lethal.

fontaine
11-11-2012, 01:28 PM
What a break out game by Ayers. Von is obviously superhuman, but Ayers flat out abused a pro bowl LT in Jordan Gross at times.

Looks like Christmas came early and we just got ourselves another pass rusher. Hopefully Doom is okay.

Rock Chalk
11-11-2012, 01:34 PM
What a break out game by Ayers. Von is obviously superhuman, but Ayers flat out abused a pro bowl LT in Jordan Gross at times.

Looks like Christmas came early and we just got ourselves another pass rusher. Hopefully Doom is okay.

Vickerson and Wolfe were both holding their gaps and getting push as well. I honestly do not remember having a defensive front line as good as this. Anyone think of a Denver line better? (Caveat, the orange crush dudes were before my time)

fontaine
11-11-2012, 01:41 PM
Vickerson and Wolfe were both holding their gaps and getting push as well. I honestly do not remember having a defensive front line as good as this. Anyone think of a Denver line better? (Caveat, the orange crush dudes were before my time)

I think when you have multiple pass rushers then it makes it so difficult to get any kind of rhythym on offense. Vickerson/Bannan/Wolfe did a great job in stuffing the run and after we went ahead by ten it was just carnage.

With a DL of Ayers/Wolfe/Vickerson/Doom and Von on the outside and guys like Carter/Harris/Champ/Moore in the back, this is the most fun I've had watching our D for a long, long time.

We get a true MLB and another DT or DE in the offseason and watch out.

KipCorrington25
11-11-2012, 01:47 PM
He has played his way back into the equation, I want to see more of him for sure.

yerner
11-11-2012, 01:48 PM
am i crazy to think ayers brings more to the game than dumervil at times? just a much stronger dude out there.

Agamemnon
11-11-2012, 01:48 PM
Ayers is really starting to put things together. It's awesome to see.

Agamemnon
11-11-2012, 01:49 PM
am i crazy to think ayers brings more to the game than dumervil at times? just a much stronger dude out there.

Yes you are crazy. He has the potential to be a more complete DE, but keep it in perspective. The guy has still done very little over the span of his career.

Rock Chalk
11-11-2012, 01:58 PM
Yes you are crazy. He has the potential to be a more complete DE, but keep it in perspective. The guy has still done very little over the span of his career.

Define "very little"? Because if you mean sacks, you are right. He doesnt have as many sacks. He has a ****load of pressures and plays the run better than Dumervil ever will.

Agamemnon
11-11-2012, 02:01 PM
Define "very little"? Because if you mean sacks, you are right. He doesnt have as many sacks. He has a ****load of pressures and plays the run better than Dumervil ever will.

The guy got benched behind a rookie this season. So there's that.

R8R H8R
11-11-2012, 02:05 PM
This may have been said before in this thread, but Mike Mayock did say it would take about 4 years for Ayers to fully develop in this league. Well, it is now his 4th year. Just saying...

Rock Chalk
11-11-2012, 02:05 PM
The guy got benched behind a rookie this season. So there's that.

They switched him to OLB in a 3-4 and he never played the position. Shocker he didn't live up to expectations when his skill set was always a 4-3 DE.

Agamemnon
11-11-2012, 02:09 PM
They switched him to OLB in a 3-4 and he never played the position. Shocker he didn't live up to expectations when his skill set was always a 4-3 DE.

What does that have to do with him falling behind Jason Hunter and Wolfe in camp? It was his second year in a pro 4-3.

Rohirrim
11-11-2012, 02:10 PM
I agree this was a break out game for Ayres. Del Rio has got to figure a way to get him more time on the field.

TheReverend
11-11-2012, 02:12 PM
They switched him to OLB in a 3-4 and he never played the position. Shocker he didn't live up to expectations when his skill set was always a 4-3 DE.

You didn't understand his post.... Benched BEHIND a rookie, not AS (though that applies too)

Bacchus
11-11-2012, 02:14 PM
Ayers, Vickerson and Miller had tremendous games as well as the secondary. A tremendous team effort!!!

Agamemnon
11-11-2012, 02:15 PM
I agree this was a break out game for Ayres. Del Rio has got to figure a way to get him more time on the field.

He may not have to if Dumervil's injury proves an issue. But if Dumervil recovers quickly I'd like to see Ayers rotate in for both him and Wolfe regularly. Rotational d-lines are where it's at if you have the talent and depth.

fontaine
11-11-2012, 02:17 PM
I agree this was a break out game for Ayres. Del Rio has got to figure a way to get him more time on the field.

Exactly. We saw a bit of that against Cincy where Ayers was lined up all over the field but his best work came from the interior lined up beside Doom. You can line him up in multiple positions to get him against weaker opposition.

If Wolfe can continue to make strides this offseason then we could have a formidable front four.

Agamemnon
11-11-2012, 02:19 PM
If Wolfe can continue to make strides this offseason then we could have a formidable front four.

Vickerson is showing a lot more than I ever thought he had too. Honestly I'd say we already have a pretty formidable front four.

TheReverend
11-11-2012, 02:20 PM
Exactly. We saw a bit of that against Cincy where Ayers was lined up all over the field but his best work came from the interior lined up beside Doom. You can line him up in multiple positions to get him against weaker opposition.

If Wolfe can continue to make strides this offseason then we could have a formidable front four.

In PR especially. Lot of versatile guys capable of rushing inside.

Excited for the future of Malik to offset that along the edge.

Rohirrim
11-11-2012, 02:28 PM
Exactly. We saw a bit of that against Cincy where Ayers was lined up all over the field but his best work came from the interior lined up beside Doom. You can line him up in multiple positions to get him against weaker opposition.

If Wolfe can continue to make strides this offseason then we could have a formidable front four.

I also think Ayre's game pumps up Vickerson's. Vickerson also kicked ass today. Both of those guy inside at the same time are a b**** for opposing O linemen. A lot of power to deal with.

Rohirrim
11-11-2012, 02:32 PM
In PR especially. Lot of versatile guys capable of rushing inside.

Excited for the future of Malik to offset that along the edge.

Damn! I almost forgot we have Malik Jackson coming along as well. He's only 22. The most complained-about aspect of the Broncos is suddenly facing an embarrassment of riches. Kudos to Elway and Fox. They've turned this sucker around pretty damn quick.

TheReverend
11-11-2012, 02:32 PM
I also think Ayre's game pumps up Vickerson's. Vickerson also kicked ass today. Both of those guy inside at the same time are a b**** for opposing O linemen. A lot of power to deal with.

Serious question: are you spelling it 'Ayre's' intentionally...?

Rohirrim
11-11-2012, 02:39 PM
Serious question: are you spelling it 'Ayre's' intentionally...?

Ha! It's a brain fart. I think it's because my middle school coach's name was Ayres.

Bacchus
11-11-2012, 02:41 PM
Damn! I almost forgot we have Malik Jackson coming along as well. He's only 22. The most complained-about aspect of the Broncos is suddenly facing an embarrassment of riches. Kudos to Elway and Fox. They've turned this sucker around pretty damn quick.

Jackson was playing today as well I saw him make a tackle.

TheReverend
11-11-2012, 02:41 PM
Ha! It's a brain fart. I think it's because my middle school coach's name was Ayres.

****. I was betting (with myself) on auto correct

crush17
11-11-2012, 02:53 PM
Ayers was off the chain today! Impressive pass rush moves, just causing havoc the whole game!

ZONA
11-11-2012, 06:12 PM
Ayers was off the chain today! Impressive pass rush moves, just causing havoc the whole game!

He's actually been very solid this year. He's forcing OL to have to hold him quite often, too bad they're not calling it enough though.

Ayers has always been very good at the run and if he can keep this nice pass rush improvement thing going, we better keep this guy under contract.

Anybody know what his current contract looks like? Just curious.

baja
11-11-2012, 06:21 PM
I agree this was a break out game for Ayres. Del Rio has got to figure a way to get him more time on the field.

Trade Doom for a running back and a middle linebacker - OM GM idea. ;D