A Parable of Health-Care Rationing [Archive] - The Orange Mane

pricejj

11-02-2012, 08:38 AM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204846304578091242949697784.html

Great read...

"The result is that the Belgian government ships patients abroad for proton therapy. Most of them go to Massachusetts..."

"The U.K.'s National Health Service, meanwhile, sends people to Oklahoma City, where 10%-12% of ProCure's patients are British".

"If we priced everything as Medicare, we wouldn't be able to run a center. It wouldn't cover the fully loaded costs."

"That's why the government needs $716 billion in Medicare cuts, and why the health-care law creates an Independent Payment Advisory Board to help decide which treatments are worth what for whom."

"the countervailing factor is that it's (Obamacare) pretty expensive for everyone to be covered, and it's going to put a lot of pressure on the government to look for ways to cut costs. Down the line, someone's going to have to pay the piper."

"As for whether America will remain the first destination for medical advances in the age of ObamaCare, Mr. Ford cautions: "Anything that moves toward one of anything, you're going to have less innovation—one provider, one payer, one manufacturer."

Rohirrim

11-02-2012, 08:44 AM

Proton therapy is completely unproven. There is little evidence to show that it is any better than the kind of laser surgery they've been using for years. In fact, it might be worse, causing burned tissue. And the machines cost a fortune.

pricejj

11-02-2012, 09:18 AM

Proton therapy is completely unproven. There is little evidence to show that it is any better than the kind of laser surgery they've been using for years. In fact, it might be worse, causing burned tissue. And the machines cost a fortune.

Then why are Europeans coming to the U.S. to get treatment?

Rohirrim

11-02-2012, 09:21 AM

Then why are Europeans coming to the U.S. to get treatment?

Why do millions of Chinese believe that consuming rhino horn will cure their limp dicks? People believe all kinds of ****. The people with money can put those beliefs into action. Dangle a shiny new therapy in front of somebody who is desperate and they will shell out the money to be first in line. Cancer is something that you can prevent. That's where the health care emphasis should be.

pricejj

11-02-2012, 09:34 AM

Proton therapy is completely unproven. There is little evidence to show that it is any better than the kind of laser surgery they've been using for years. In fact, it might be worse, causing burned tissue. And the machines cost a fortune.

Proton laser therapy is used instead of x and gamma radiation techniques for radiation patients, because it spreads less radiation throughout the body.

Your analysis is way off, unless you think you are smarter than the radio-oncology community:
"Globally, less than 3% of radiation patients receive protons, though Mr. Legrain says: "If you listen to the radio-oncology community, maybe 20%-30% could benefit."

The point is, all of the single-payer nations are sending their cancer patients to the U.S., because our healthcare system allows innovative technology that works, unlike single-payer systems...where there is no innovation.

Rohirrim

11-02-2012, 09:41 AM

I listened to an in-depth report on the subject on NPR yesterday. I'm sure that a guy trying to sell the technology will argue that it's the greatest thing since penicillin, but the consensus is that it has not proved itself.

I'll give you the biggest medical innovation in years, and one that the entire Western medical industry will never improve on: If you eat **** you'll get fat and sick. Simple. No pill will cure that. Here's the other one: You're going to die. Of something. Someday. If you eat ****, you'll die sooner. And sicker.

W*GS

11-02-2012, 10:26 AM

Then why are Europeans coming to the U.S. to get treatment?

Why are Americans leaving the US, in far greater numbers, to get treatment?

Rohirrim

11-02-2012, 10:37 AM

pricejj

11-02-2012, 11:12 AM

Why are Americans leaving the US, in far greater numbers, to get treatment?

Obamacare has raised health-care costs 23% in the last 3 years?

To purchase American drugs in Canada or Mexico, because the Democrats blocked drug re-importation?

BroncoInferno

11-02-2012, 11:17 AM

Obamacare has raised health-care costs 23% in the last 3 years?

Still peddling that lie, huh? As you've been told several times now, healthcare costs have increased between 7% and 9% for about the last decade. It has nothing to do with Obamacare, which hasn't been fully implemented yet. The parts of Obamacare that concern right-wingers don't go into effect until 2014. You've been corrected on this countless times now.

Rohirrim

11-02-2012, 11:20 AM

Still peddling that lie, huh? As you've been told several times now, healthcare costs have increased between 7% and 9% for about the last decade. It has nothing to do with Obamacare, which hasn't been fully implemented yet. The parts of Obamacare that concern right-wingers don't go into effect until 2014. You've been corrected on this countless times now.

Like Romney, he doesn't rely on fact checkers. ;D

pricejj

11-02-2012, 01:41 PM

Still peddling that lie, huh? As you've been told several times now, healthcare costs have increased between 7% and 9% for about the last decade. It has nothing to do with Obamacare, which hasn't been fully implemented yet. The parts of Obamacare that concern right-wingers don't go into effect until 2014. You've been corrected on this countless times now.

In 2014, all U.S. citizens are required to purchase unecessary health insurance, which drives costs up even further.

Obamacare has escalated rising healthcare costs, and is the biggest tax increases on the middle-class EVER. That doesn't help anyone except the insurance companies.

BroncoInferno

11-02-2012, 02:00 PM

In 2014, all U.S. citizens are required to purchase unecessary health insurance, which drives costs up even further.

Obamacare has escalated rising healthcare costs, and is the biggest tax increases on the middle-class EVER. That doesn't help anyone except the insurance companies.

Yeah, well, you're just falling back on the stump speech now. That doesn't address the fact that you keep blaming Obamacare for a 23% increase in healthcare costs the last three years, which is plainly false.

houghtam

11-02-2012, 02:20 PM

I can't wait to laugh as pricejj pays his monthly premiums every month for the rest of his life.

DenverBrit

11-02-2012, 02:46 PM

Then why are Europeans coming to the U.S. to get treatment?

Medical tourism is a fast growing industry. The US is a destination for a number of specialties, and a lot of places are destinations for US citizens who can't afford the care in the US.

Once only something done by the incredibly wealthy, medical tourism is "really turning into something people understand," said Josef Woodman, CEO of Patients Beyond Borders, which produces guidebooks on medical travel. The organization estimates that in 2012, 600,000 people will travel abroad for treatment -- a number anticipated to grow 15 to 20 percent annually as boomers age.

A survey conducted by Patients Beyond Borders shows the jaw-dropping differences in cost. In 2011, you could pay $88,000 for a coronary artery bypass graft in the U.S., or $9,500 in India (which saw the highest average savings, at 65 to 90 percent). For a hip replacement in Mexico, it’s $12,500 instead of $33,000 on average in the States.

The JCI-accredited hospital at which Schuler was treated –- Fortis Hospitals in Bangalore, India, formerly known as Wockhardt Hospitals and is associated with Harvard Medical International -– exceeded his expectations.

"They picked me up at the airport at 4 a.m. their time and took me to the hospital" for X-rays, Schuler said. "My room was incredible, the care was phenomenal. I was there in the hospital for seven days and I was in what I consider to be a four- to five-star health facility."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/medical-tourism-health-tourism-medical-travel_n_1551217.html

Blart

11-02-2012, 02:48 PM

pricejj

11-02-2012, 02:56 PM

I can't wait to laugh as pricejj pays his monthly premiums every month for the rest of his life.

I can't help but laugh at you, because that will never happen.

You seem to be highly interested in my money, but why? It's not yours, and will never be.

I also might add, that I already am paying Medicare, and State taxes out of every paycheck.

DAN_BRONCO_FAN

11-02-2012, 04:12 PM

Vegas_Bronco

11-02-2012, 04:20 PM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204846304578091242949697784.html

Great read...

"The result is that the Belgian government ships patients abroad for proton therapy. Most of them go to Massachusetts..."

"The U.K.'s National Health Service, meanwhile, sends people to Oklahoma City, where 10%-12% of ProCure's patients are British".

"If we priced everything as Medicare, we wouldn't be able to run a center. It wouldn't cover the fully loaded costs."

"That's why the government needs $716 billion in Medicare cuts, and why the health-care law creates an Independent Payment Advisory Board to help decide which treatments are worth what for whom."

"the countervailing factor is that it's (Obamacare) pretty expensive for everyone to be covered, and it's going to put a lot of pressure on the government to look for ways to cut costs. Down the line, someone's going to have to pay the piper."

"As for whether America will remain the first destination for medical advances in the age of ObamaCare, Mr. Ford cautions: "Anything that moves toward one of anything, you're going to have less innovation—one provider, one payer, one manufacturer."

The man hides beneath his true intent...dissuading all from the fact that he and his cronies want to own health care...own and control the last living market in the USA. First the attack on the housing market and now the health care industry. Greed in America has no end.

Fedaykin

11-02-2012, 05:48 PM

Health Care has always been, and will always be rationed -- barring infinite resources.

If you don't understand that basic fact, you have no business in this discussion.

barryr

11-04-2012, 04:08 AM

Only idiots think a one system healthcare would be efficient and of great quality. History shows competition helps maintain such things, not a system where people get paid and keep jobs regardless of performance.

chadta

11-04-2012, 04:25 AM

You guys are in for a real treat, once you don't have to pay at point of use, healthcare will be determined to be "free" at that point, you'll have people going to the ER with coughs, and colds, and the line ups for actual emergency's will double just because of the paperwork to deal with everybody that's taking advantage of it. Then taxes will go up because throwing money at the problem without a plan will fix everything, it has for the financial market right ?

BroncoBeavis

11-04-2012, 06:02 AM

I listened to an in-depth report on the subject on NPR yesterday.

And I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night so that makes us about even. :)

I do find your "Wages of Sin" view of healthcare troubling though. Wait until your government is able to start leveraging that world view.