GOP Suppreses Evidence Refuting Bedrock Conservative Economic Theory

[manchambo]

This should be a huge deal. In September the non-partisan Congressional Research Service issued a report finding no correlation between top-end tax rates and economic activity. Did the GOP, whose entire economic phisophy is belied by this basic (and many times replicated) finding, refute the finding with facts or analysis? Anyone paying attention knows that would basically be impossible. So they did what any piss-ant dictator would do--they suppressed the information. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/02/business/questions-raised-on-withdrawal-of-congressional-research-services-report-on-tax-rates.html?hp

What would our politics be like if there were actual discussions of real economic principles? Conservatives are too interested in their ideology-driven beliefs to let silly things like facts and math enter the discourse.

Huffingtonpost has some interesting comments from the study author under the incredibly appropriate headline: GOP to Facts: Drop Dead. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/01/congressional-research-service_n_2059156.html

[Smiling Assassin27]

Did the GOP, whose entire economic phisophy is belied by this basic (and many times replicated) finding

Stopped reading right there. Credibility gone.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Oh yeah, was the study a piece of crap or not? Do you care? Can you defend it or are you just pulling a big bird/war on women thing? Nothing but a bunch of Dems whining that since the GOP raised questions about it that they just didn't like the findings. Not an iota of an attempt to defend the study's cred. Typical.

Hint: Yes, yes it was a piece of crap. Read it.

[Vegas_Bronco]

Whenever you add your personal opinion to a survey/study...it discredits the story - just win by posting the story and then leaving your heated opinions out. It has little to do with math or ideology-driven beliefs...

[manchambo]

Oh yeah, was the study a piece of crap or not? Do you care? Can you defend it or are you just pulling a big bird/war on women thing? Nothing but a bunch of Dems whining that since the GOP raised questions about it that they just didn't like the findings. Not an iota of an attempt to defend the study's cred. Typical.

Hint: Yes, yes it was a piece of crap. Read it.

If it was a piece of crap, I would think the GOP wouldn't find it necessary to suppress the findings.

[Rohirrim]

I started a thread on the story as well. Here's what the study said:

“The reduction in the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment and productivity growth. The top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie,” the report said. “However, the top tax rate reductions appear to be associated with the increasing concentration of income at the top of the income distribution.”

Ben Stein, last week on Fox and Friends also said, “The evidence is that there is no clear connection between the level of taxation and the level of economic activity. The biggest growth and prosperity we’ve ever had in this country was from roughly 1941 to 1973. That was the best years we’ve ever had and those were years of much higher taxes than we have now.”

Here's what it means: Romney's entire economic plan is built on a fallacy.

I assume that's why McConnell killed it.

[SoCalBronco]

The best way to spur growth is to reduce debt. Smaller debt means less money thrown away on paying interest, a stronger dollar, and more money freed up to stimulate growth whether through private or public means.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Bedrock Conservative Economic Theory??
http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/box/1/1/7/578117_18451_front.jpg

[Rohirrim]

The best way to spur growth is to reduce debt. Smaller debt means less money thrown away on paying interest, a stronger dollar, and more money freed up to stimulate growth whether through private or public means.

There's plenty of money out there. The banks won't lend it. Our problem is greed. The super rich are hiding $32 trillion in offshore accounts. Why? Because they don't want to pay their rightful taxes. A vibrant economy, with everybody working, pays down the debt in record time. The deregulation of our markets and banks caused this mess, and proper regulation will restore it. I hear the Right blaming Obama for the uncertainty in the markets. The fact is that the uncertainty was caused by deregulation which turned a solid, dependable market system into a wild casino where the majority of money now being made is not the result of solid investments in businesses producing and marketing goods, but in computers churning transactions and paper wealth being made in cyberspace, but not on the ground. Reinstate Glass-Steagle. Put the banks back into their previous, conservative business of banking, not investing. Change the tax codes to reward those who create businesses and jobs at home and punish those who move offshore for their own tax benefit. They want to benefit from our system, but don't want to chip in their share to pay for it.

[orinjkrush]

There's plenty of money out there. The banks won't lend it. Our problem is greed. The super rich are hiding $32 trillion in offshore accounts. Why? Because they don't want to pay their rightful taxes. A vibrant economy, with everybody working, pays down the debt in record time. The deregulation of our markets and banks caused this mess, and proper regulation will restore it. I hear the Right blaming Obama for the uncertainty in the markets. The fact is that the uncertainty was caused by deregulation which turned a solid, dependable market system into a wild casino where the majority of money now being made is not the result of solid investments in businesses producing and marketing goods, but in computers churning transactions and paper wealth being made in cyberspace, but not on the ground. Reinstate Glass-Steagle. Put the banks back into their previous, conservative business of banking, not investing. Change the tax codes to reward those who create businesses and jobs at home and punish those who move offshore for their own tax benefit. They want to benefit from our system, but don't want to chip in their share to pay for it.

best post of the year.

[Arkie]

Ben Stein, last week on Fox and Friends also said, “The evidence is that there is no clear connection between the level of taxation and the level of economic activity. The biggest growth and prosperity we’ve ever had in this country was from roughly 1941 to 1973. That was the best years we’ve ever had and those were years of much higher taxes than we have now.”


1973. That was two years after our government began to treat our money like monopoly money. When federal spending grows faster than our paychecks, the burden on taxpayers becomes greater. Since 1973, Federal spending has increased 12 times faster than our median income! You can't expect taxes to keep up with the skyrocketing spending curve even if we raise the top rates.

In other words, it's not mathematically possible to increase taxes 12 times faster than our income. They have a printing press and we don't. That would be cool if we all had printing presses in our basements. Then the taxpayers could keep up.

[pricejj]

ObamaCare is the biggest tax increase EVER on the middle-class, and seriously affects businesses hiring practices.

Do you think it's better for people to have a JOB, or unecessary, over-priced, taxpayer-subsidized health insurance?

[Vegas_Bronco]

There's plenty of money out there. The banks won't lend it. Our problem is greed. The super rich are hiding $32 trillion in offshore accounts. Why? Because they don't want to pay their rightful taxes. A vibrant economy, with everybody working, pays down the debt in record time. The deregulation of our markets and banks caused this mess, and proper regulation will restore it. I hear the Right blaming Obama for the uncertainty in the markets. The fact is that the uncertainty was caused by deregulation which turned a solid, dependable market system into a wild casino where the majority of money now being made is not the result of solid investments in businesses producing and marketing goods, but in computers churning transactions and paper wealth being made in cyberspace, but not on the ground. Reinstate Glass-Steagle. Put the banks back into their previous, conservative business of banking, not investing. Change the tax codes to reward those who create businesses and jobs at home and punish those who move offshore for their own tax benefit. They want to benefit from our system, but don't want to chip in their share to pay for it.

Sounds like nobody wants to pay their share...poor or rich. The difficulty is that the rich dont need the poor like the poor need the rich...therfore this wont ever work and never has. You simply need to define the rules of the game so the rich can find ways or ppl to buy to win...its not just a matter of more regulation. We have regulation and obama turns the other way to write up more federal deficit and take more from the middle class...seems he is working opposite of your suggestion?

[ghwk]

ObamaCare is the biggest tax increase EVER on the middle-class, and seriously affects businesses hiring practices.

Do you think it's better for people to have a JOB, or unecessary, over-priced, taxpayer-subsidized health insurance?

You are still so uneducated on this topic its frightening.

[pricejj]

You are still so uneducated on this topic its frightening.

Not true. The Pharmacy where I work part time, has went from 6 full-time technicians 3 years ago, to 1 full-time technician, and 7 part-time technicians with less than 20 hours (so they don't qualify for insurance) today....all because of Obamacare.

Retail won't hire employees with health insurance benefits now, because of Obamacare (and they aren't the only ones). Health insurance costs have went up 23% in the last 3 years...businesses want no part of it.

[manchambo]

Bedrock Conservative Economic Theory??
http://image.gamespotcdn.net/gamespot/images/box/1/1/7/578117_18451_front.jpg


Another solid contribution. At least this post commits no atrocities of basic grammar or spelling.

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Another solid contribution. At least this post commits no atrocities of basic grammar or spelling.
well what sPelling errors did I make uptight boy can you find em
cmon uptight boy find my Spelling ewworS
i really think your need to take sometime OFF
oh left you a secret message in my post find the secret word if you can
also cap and trade SUCKs hint hInT sorry CAP button was stuck

[DAN_BRONCO_FAN]

Another solid contribution. At least this post commits no atrocities of basic grammar or spelling.

oh lighten up frownie face boy my god loosen up stop being uptight guy

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Even Joe Scarborough is distancing himself from the kind of TeaBilly freaks who populate this forum...

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/311139_489001811121689_915486462_n.jpg

[Blart]

I do find it interesting that Republican sympathizers are responding only with ad-hominem.

Where are the contradicting studies?

The best way to spur growth is to reduce debt. Smaller debt means less money thrown away on paying interest, a stronger dollar, and more money freed up to stimulate growth whether through private or public means.

Can you show me some examples of this happening *during a recession/depression recovery*, either in America or any other country throughout history?

From every example I've looked at, Economies need to be in good shape to reduce debt.

[ghwk]

Not true. The Pharmacy where I work part time, has went from 6 full-time technicians 3 years ago, to 1 full-time technician, and 7 part-time technicians with less than 20 hours (so they don't qualify for insurance) today....all because of Obamacare.

Retail won't hire employees with health insurance benefits now, because of Obamacare (and they aren't the only ones). Health insurance costs have went up 23% in the last 3 years...businesses want no part of it.

This is about the 20th time in various threads you have pulled this stat out of your butt and attributed it to this administration despite being shown how wrong you are each time.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that healthcare costs have been rising at a rate of 7 to 9% a year for over a decade?

Most all Americans reject the system you are trying to defend.

[Bronco Yoda]

There's plenty of money out there. The banks won't lend it. Our problem is greed. The super rich are hiding $32 trillion in offshore accounts. Why? Because they don't want to pay their rightful taxes. A vibrant economy, with everybody working, pays down the debt in record time. The deregulation of our markets and banks caused this mess, and proper regulation will restore it. I hear the Right blaming Obama for the uncertainty in the markets. The fact is that the uncertainty was caused by deregulation which turned a solid, dependable market system into a wild casino where the majority of money now being made is not the result of solid investments in businesses producing and marketing goods, but in computers churning transactions and paper wealth being made in cyberspace, but not on the ground. Reinstate Glass-Steagle. Put the banks back into their previous, conservative business of banking, not investing. Change the tax codes to reward those who create businesses and jobs at home and punish those who move offshore for their own tax benefit. They want to benefit from our system, but don't want to chip in their share to pay for it.

This is such a great post. I'm glad at least one person out there understands this.

Everyone should unite as Americans and demand Reinstatement of GS. Notice only the third party candidates are talking about it.

[Rohirrim]

We have not had a financial systemic collapse since the Depression because of Glass/Steagle. The minute it was taken down, look what happened? Wall Street is fighting tooth and nail to stop its reinstatement because they are making fat profit from their continuing derivatives bull****. They've fallen in love with the fatter profit margins of the casino over the sensible growth of the old economy which benefited the entire country, not just them. In other words, the behavior that crashed the world's economy is still going on, right now. Unabated. Markets and banking, by their very nature, should be the bulwark of conservatism, not a secret port where pirates ply their trade. Too bad the Right Wing of America has traded in their conservatism for social extremism. We need both parties to come together, reinstate the proper regulatory function of government, and stamp out this excess of greed. Unfortunately, the majority of our government is on the take and the Right has convinced many in America that the government is our enemy.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

We have not had a financial systemic collapse since the Depression because of Glass/Steagle. The minute it was taken down, look what happened? Wall Street is fighting tooth and nail to stop its reinstatement because they are making fat profit from their continuing derivatives bull****. They've fallen in love with the fatter profit margins of the casino over the sensible growth of the old economy which benefited the entire country, not just them. In other words, the behavior that crashed the world's economy is still going on, right now. Unabated. Markets and banking, by their very nature, should be the bulwark of conservatism, not a secret port where pirates ply their trade. Too bad the Right Wing of America has traded in their conservatism for social extremism. We need both parties to come together, reinstate the proper regulatory function of government, and stamp out this excess of greed. Unfortunately, the majority of our government is on the take and the Right has convinced many in America that the government is our enemy.

If you listen to most of the whack jobs who vote republican these days, greed doesn't even exist, and anyone who claims otherwise is simply waging "class warfare."

The Wall Street pirates you described are junkies who are completely out of control, and money is their drug. Anyone who knows anything about junkies knows that addicts can never get enough of whatever their drug of choice happens to be.

[TonyR]

Sounds like nobody wants to pay their share...poor or rich.

How do you propose that the poor pay more of "their share"?

[Irish Stout]

Not true. The Pharmacy where I work part time, has went from 6 full-time technicians 3 years ago, to 1 full-time technician, and 7 part-time technicians with less than 20 hours (so they don't qualify for insurance) today....all because of Obamacare.

Retail won't hire employees with health insurance benefits now, because of Obamacare (and they aren't the only ones). Health insurance costs have went up 23% in the last 3 years...businesses want no part of it.

DUDE!!!! Really? Like you can't even remotely believe this right? Because you are talking about 3 years ago... Obamacare costs aren't even going to hit small business till 2014.

Not only that - under Obamacare, small businesses (25 or less employees) who were paying over 75% of their Employees health insurance were entitled to tax credits beginning 2010.... which is like the exact opposite of what you're espousing.

Thats the same 2010 where the very small start of Obamacare hit... you know, like under 3 years ago... this is also the part where no "tax" was applied and health insurance coverage didn't change in this country at that time.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

DUDE!!!! Really? Like you can't even remotely believe this right? Because you are talking about 3 years ago... Obamacare costs aren't even going to hit small business till 2014.

The make-believe world pricejj inhabits is truly bizarre. :crazy: :mullet2:

[elsid13]

Not true. The Pharmacy where I work part time, has went from 6 full-time technicians 3 years ago, to 1 full-time technician, and 7 part-time technicians with less than 20 hours (so they don't qualify for insurance) today....all because of Obamacare.

Retail won't hire employees with health insurance benefits now, because of Obamacare (and they aren't the only ones). Health insurance costs have went up 23% in the last 3 years...businesses want no part of it.

Maybe you shouldn't be sampling the merchandise at your work place.

[Rohirrim]

You guys should know by now, the Right Wing infobubble does not accept outside information.

[TonyR]

DUDE!!!! Really? Like you can't even remotely believe this right?

pricejj keeps acting like he knows what he's talking about. He's probably just regurgitating what he hears on right wing radio.

[TonyR]

...the Right Wing infobubble...

Is there any hope that this bubble will ever burst?!?

[orinjkrush]

We have not had a financial systemic collapse since the Depression because of Glass/Steagle. The minute it was taken down, look what happened? Wall Street is fighting tooth and nail to stop its reinstatement because they are making fat profit from their continuing derivatives bull****. They've fallen in love with the fatter profit margins of the casino over the sensible growth of the old economy which benefited the entire country, not just them. In other words, the behavior that crashed the world's economy is still going on, right now. Unabated. Markets and banking, by their very nature, should be the bulwark of conservatism, not a secret port where pirates ply their trade. Too bad the Right Wing of America has traded in their conservatism for social extremism. We need both parties to come together, reinstate the proper regulatory function of government, and stamp out this excess of greed. Unfortunately, the majority of our government is on the take and the Right has convinced many in America that the government is our enemy.

you keep this up and i'm gonna vote for YOU. damn straight.

[ghwk]

Pricejj is the CD ROM of the Mane. Once Fox News and Rush have written info to his disc of a brain (definately not dual layer) the info can't be changed, altered or deleted.

Unfortunately he represents what is the mainstream of the GOP which explains why Mitt is doing so well.

[El Minion]

There's plenty of money out there. The banks won't lend it. Our problem is greed. The super rich are hiding $32 trillion in offshore accounts. Why? Because they don't want to pay their rightful taxes. A vibrant economy, with everybody working, pays down the debt in record time. The deregulation of our markets and banks caused this mess, and proper regulation will restore it. I hear the Right blaming Obama for the uncertainty in the markets. The fact is that the uncertainty was caused by deregulation which turned a solid, dependable market system into a wild casino where the majority of money now being made is not the result of solid investments in businesses producing and marketing goods, but in computers churning transactions and paper wealth being made in cyberspace, but not on the ground. Reinstate Glass-Steagle. Put the banks back into their previous, conservative business of banking, not investing. Change the tax codes to reward those who create businesses and jobs at home and punish those who move offshore for their own tax benefit. They want to benefit from our system, but don't want to chip in their share to pay for it.

I think this sums up the basic difference between Romney and Obama, a future of new ideas for new and old problems for general prosperity or let the money changers be the gate keepers to any change, if any.

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Forget the Middle Class, It's Elite vs. Elite (http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2012/Pres/Maps/Nov02.html#item-3)

While all the television ads are about the middle class and who loves it more, the reality is a bit different. As Deepthroat told reporter Bob Woodward some 40 years ago: "Follow the money." In 2008, Wall Street bankers were divided between John McCain and Barack Obama, but this year they have come down clearly on the side of Mitt Romney. The five biggest sources of donations (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/01/despite-the-great-recession-obama-s-new-coalition-of-elites-has-thrived.html) to Romney's campaign this year are Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Morgan Stanley, Credit Suisse, and Wells Fargo, all giant financial institutions that recognize Romney as one of their own. Clearly an elite group if ever there was one.

How does Obama compete with these financial powerhouses? He does get small donations, but he has his own elite team as well. His consists of people from the tech sector, government, and universities. His five biggest donors are the University of California, Microsoft, Google, government employees, and Harvard.

These people made their money by dealing in ideas rather than by moving money around.