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View Full Version : Using Holiday in right spots


ZONA
10-29-2012, 12:46 PM
I had noticed something in the last game that I think makes alot of sense. When the other team is near midfield and trying to land their punt inside our 20 yard line, putting Leonard back there to field punts makes sense. He has better hands and is less likely to muff the punt in such a crucial part of the field. I also noticed that when a punt was being kicked from closer to the other teams side of the field, where a punt is more likely to be returned rather then a fair catch, Holiday is in there for those. I think this was a smart coaching decision and I think it showed during the game that it's the correct way to go moving forward. You can't just throw away the potential of those return yards by having Leonard field all the punts but you like him back there for those fair catches.

Thoughts?

Beantown Bronco
10-29-2012, 02:27 PM
Holiday, while explosive, still scares the crap out of me back there. Given Manning's ability to make 98 yard drives look easy, I'm still not convinced the value of a few extra yards is worth the risk.....but what do I know?

Irish Stout
10-29-2012, 02:29 PM
Holiday, while explosive, still scares the crap out of me back there. Given Manning's ability to make 98 yard drives look easy, I'm still not convinced the value of a few extra yards is worth the risk.....but what do I know?

What we both know is that Boldin brings the ball out of the end zone way too often on kick offs.

pricejj
10-29-2012, 02:32 PM
I had noticed something in the last game that I think makes alot of sense. When the other team is near midfield and trying to land their punt inside our 20 yard line, putting Leonard back there to field punts makes sense. He has better hands and is less likely to muff the punt in such a crucial part of the field. I also noticed that when a punt was being kicked from closer to the other teams side of the field, where a punt is more likely to be returned rather then a fair catch, Holiday is in there for those. I think this was a smart coaching decision and I think it showed during the game that it's the correct way to go moving forward. You can't just throw away the potential of those return yards by having Leonard field all the punts but you like him back there for those fair catches.

Thoughts?

Yeah, good observation. Holliday is a good to have on booming punts. Leonhard is better possessing the ball on shorter punts inside the 20. The coaching staff, once again, comes up with an effective solution.

fontaine
10-29-2012, 02:38 PM
He's a genuine threat to take one to the house and gets this offense in solid field position. Holiday needs to get the ball more. You try and get the ball to your best players as often as possible, instead of worrying about things like fumbles.

It really is that simple.

baja
10-29-2012, 02:39 PM
Holiday, while explosive, still scares the crap out of me back there. Given Manning's ability to make 98 yard drives look easy, I'm still not convinced the value of a few extra yards is worth the risk.....but what do I know?

I would like to give Holiday lots of chances to prove himself. He has talent. Hate to miss out on it by giving up on him too early

I think Zona poses the prefect solution in the OP.

broncogary
10-29-2012, 02:41 PM
Holiday, while explosive, still scares the crap out of me back there. Given Manning's ability to make 98 yard drives look easy, I'm still not convinced the value of a few extra yards is worth the risk.....but what do I know?

You know a lot about movies, Mr. Ebert. :strong:

ludo21
10-29-2012, 03:05 PM
agreed. Very solid coaching decision.

Holiday is so cat quick and comfortable on PR it is fun to watch.

If we are in the playoff with the game on the line though.... im not so sure id go Holiday in that spot unless we 'needed' a big return

DBroncos4life
10-29-2012, 03:12 PM
I have a feeling teams are going to fear punting the ball to us for other reasons then giving the ball back to Manning.

BroncoMan4ever
10-29-2012, 03:25 PM
Holiday, while explosive, still scares the crap out of me back there. Given Manning's ability to make 98 yard drives look easy, I'm still not convinced the value of a few extra yards is worth the risk.....but what do I know?

Didn't the announcers mention something along the lines of, Manning only had 2 drives of 98 yards while in Indy?

Beantown Bronco
10-29-2012, 03:36 PM
Didn't the announcers mention something along the lines of, Manning only had 2 drives of 98 yards while in Indy?

Yes, but that's a very misleading stat. I'm talking more 90+ overall, not just 98 and only 98. And I'd like to know how many times he actually had the opportunity to have a 98 yard drive in Indy. It's not like people drop punts at the 2 every game. It's actually pretty rare.

Mogulseeker
10-29-2012, 03:38 PM
What actually scares me is having that little guy floating around there with those big men trying to tackle him. One of these day Holliday is going going to get folded in half a la Johnny Knox.

Lycan
10-29-2012, 04:24 PM
What about using him as an offensive weapon?

Could be a threat on screens or deep bombs. I imagine he's very raw though.

lonestar
10-29-2012, 04:38 PM
Holiday, while explosive, still scares the crap out of me back there. Given Manning's ability to make 98 yard drives look easy, I'm still not convinced the value of a few extra yards is worth the risk.....but what do I know?

I noticed last night many defenders grabbing at his arms most likely to dislodge the ball than going for his legs..

not that they were on position to get at the legs but i saw him jerked at a couple of times..

Rock Chalk
10-29-2012, 04:43 PM
What we both know is that Boldin brings the ball out of the end zone way too often on kick offs.

If that ****ing guy brings out another kick from inside the end zone I am going to go ballistic.

baja
10-29-2012, 04:54 PM
I noticed last night many defenders grabbing at his arms most likely to dislodge the ball than going for his legs..

not that they were on position to get at the legs but i saw him jerked at a couple of times..

And he did bobble the ball on that long return but he was able to secure it and keep running. That bobble will not be missed on file study by Cincinnati though.

The Joker
10-29-2012, 06:36 PM
That move that Holliday put on one of the Saints gunners on a punt in the 4th quarter was ****ing ridiculous, the guy came bombing down trying to make the tackle and missed him by like a good 5 yards.

I agree that I'd only put Holliday in there when a team is punting from deep in their own territory and there's a real shot at a good return. If a team are punting from anywhere near the halfway like I'm happy with Leonhard back there fielding.

Would like to see Holliday back on kickoffs though. Boldin hasn't impressed me, what with the fumble and that return that he took to the 6 yard line and all that.

ZONA
10-29-2012, 06:46 PM
And he did bobble the ball on that long return but he was able to secure it and keep running. That bobble will not be missed on file study by Cincinnati though.

I don't think he bobbled it. The force of the guy pulling at the ball forced his arm to move opposite his body. He still had it secure. That's what I saw anyway.

Another coaching thing here I would be drilling into these guys is, do not hold or block in the back on punt returns. Do your best to block but a guy like Holiday can make people miss on his own and the last thing we need, as we saw one this past Sunday, is a nice return to be negated by a stupid penalty.

I could see them giving him a snap or two on the offense. If you get him some work at it, you never know when you might hit one big with him.

lonestar
10-29-2012, 08:00 PM
And he did bobble the ball on that long return but he was able to secure it and keep running. That bobble will not be missed on file study by Cincinnati though.

I was not sure if it was bobbled but he was jerked a couple of times about the arms level.. so I'm guessing that the book is already written on him..

your correct CIN will be poking and jobbing at the ball..

Bronco Yoda
10-29-2012, 08:06 PM
Leonard is still going to be the man once the weather turns nasty.

broncosteven
10-29-2012, 08:10 PM
He's a genuine threat to take one to the house and gets this offense in solid field position. Holiday needs to get the ball more. You try and get the ball to your best players as often as possible, instead of worrying about things like fumbles.

It really is that simple.

Good point.

The great thing about this coaching staff is that they are not content to stand pat and just go with the guys they have.

Fox has proven that he if a player is teh suck on the field he will get teh bench like Mays and totally inactive like KM. If he finds a better horse he will change to it even midstream as long as it makes the team better.

I love seeing them put Trevathan out there, Brooking, Hillman, even Muff guy.

Fox gets bashed here a lot but they are not afraid to adjust or find guys during the season. Just look at how terrible kfc is and what they have done to get better...NOTHING!

fontaine
11-04-2012, 11:42 AM
He's a genuine threat to take one to the house and gets this offense in solid field position. Holiday needs to get the ball more. You try and get the ball to your best players as often as possible, instead of worrying about things like fumbles.

It really is that simple.

Bump!

Holiday taking it one to the House!!!

Beantown Bronco
11-04-2012, 01:22 PM
Keep proving me wrong Holiday. That's all I ask.

broncosteven
11-04-2012, 01:40 PM
I am not sure if he was used as a KR in Houston, sure looked like he froze on the ball that was kicked short, not sure why he even let it bounce I would have to look at it again but he is responsible for covering that.

Love the TD but he needs to be much more consistent and reliable.

SonOfLe-loLang
11-04-2012, 01:43 PM
I am not sure if he was used as a KR in Houston, sure looked like he froze on the ball that was kicked short, not sure why he even let it bounce I would have to look at it again but he is responsible for covering that.

Love the TD but he needs to be much more consistent and reliable.

Id have to watch it again too, but he expected it to bounce, it died...fine. And then SuperBall swooped in before he could even do anything

broncosteven
11-04-2012, 01:57 PM
Id have to watch it again too, but he expected it to bounce, it died...fine. And then SuperBall swooped in before he could even do anything

I would have done the same, someone had to do something.

Miss I.
11-04-2012, 01:58 PM
this is wrong, and I am sorry in advance for posting this, but the three year old child in me can't help it...or doesn't want to...;D

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0X7RyGBq2E8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

SonOfLe-loLang
11-04-2012, 04:00 PM
I would have done the same, someone had to do something.

But i dont think he gave holiday a chance to even react to it, but i cant remember. Though it might have been one of those things where they were both standing by it, unsure of who would grab it (like an infielder/outfielder calling a fly ball). Whatever though, no harm no foul

ZONA
11-04-2012, 05:47 PM
Oh yeah, Holiday gets one in only his 3rd game for us, how sweet.

Tough call on the kick that died on the 1. Of course you want to say to Ball give Holiday a chance to pick it up but I'm not going to get on his case for that. Better to cover it up fast then bumble it or something. Just bad luck that a kick off could die like it did.

tsiguy96
11-04-2012, 05:55 PM
Oh yeah, Holiday gets one in only his 3rd game for us, how sweet.

Tough call on the kick that died on the 1. Of course you want to say to Ball give Holiday a chance to pick it up but I'm not going to get on his case for that. Better to cover it up fast then bumble it or something. Just bad luck that a kick off could die like it did.

that kick was incredible, to say the least. imagine if you had a guy who could do that consistently, drop it in front of returner and behind the next line, then kill it on the 1.

broncosteven
11-04-2012, 08:15 PM
that kick was incredible, to say the least. imagine if you had a guy who could do that consistently, drop it in front of returner and behind the next line, then kill it on the 1.

Or if a CB could punch the ball out 4 times a game rather than bother tackling!

Bronco Yoda
11-04-2012, 08:37 PM
Who would have thunk that Cincinnati of all places would be a good for a Holiday. :)

Agamemnon
11-04-2012, 08:41 PM
Anyone else think the guy could be a weapon on offense with some coaching?

bronco militia
11-04-2012, 08:50 PM
this is wrong, and I am sorry in advance for posting this, but the three year old child in me can't help it...or doesn't want to...;D

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0X7RyGBq2E8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

wtf is this ****?????

:cuss:

<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DrWpLS0vM0g?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DrWpLS0vM0g?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

Agamemnon
11-04-2012, 08:54 PM
I'm hard pressed to decide which video sucks more. At least Madonna had the excuse of it being the very dawn of music videos. Meanwhile Green Day's video just feels like I'm on really bad drugs.

bronco militia
11-04-2012, 08:56 PM
I'm hard pressed to decide which video sucks more. At least Madonna had the excuse of it being the very dawn of music videos. Meanwhile Green Day's video just feels like I'm on really bad drugs.

lol.....it's better because it's not madonna

duh

BroncoMan4ever
11-04-2012, 08:58 PM
Anyone else think the guy could be a weapon on offense with some coaching?
You can't teach speed. I just wonder if he could take constant poundings on offense. As a return guy he operates in space. On average he has maybe 4 total returns a game. On offense he faces much bigger opposition and is subject to bigger hits.

Agamemnon
11-04-2012, 09:05 PM
You can't teach speed. I just wonder if he could take constant poundings on offense. As a return guy he operates in space. On average he has maybe 4 total returns a game. On offense he faces much bigger opposition and is subject to bigger hits.

I'm not talking about him taking "constant poundings". I'm talking about installing some packages and trying to get him the ball in space on a few plays a game. For instance you could line him up in the slot and then throw it to him on a bubble screen. Or maybe run a reverse. That kind of stuff. I seriously doubt he could ever be more than that in an NFL offense, but all the same I could see it accounting for a few big plays here and there.

Oh and I'm not sure where you got the idea that offensive players take bigger hits. Returners are generally at more risk of big hits than anyone other than the possible exception of wide receivers going over the middle.

lonestar
11-05-2012, 12:23 AM
I'm not talking about him taking "constant poundings". I'm talking about installing some packages and trying to get him the ball in space on a few plays a game. For instance you could line him up in the slot and then throw it to him on a bubble screen. Or maybe run a reverse. That kind of stuff. I seriously doubt he could ever be more than that in an NFL offense, but all the same I could see it accounting for a few big plays here and there.

Oh and I'm not sure where you got the idea that offensive players take bigger hits. Returners are generally at more risk of big hits than anyone other than the possible exception of wide receivers going over the middle.

Pretty sure that was why Hellman was drafted. How washout we let him learn it before trying teach the scheme and timing with yet another guy.

broncosteven
11-05-2012, 10:27 AM
Pretty sure that was why Hellman was drafted. How washout we let him learn it before trying teach the scheme and timing with yet another guy.

Is Hellman related to the dudes who make Mayo?

"How washout" whaaaHuh?

I think as the year goes on they would be smart to at least try some mCcluster type plays with Holliday in practice, if he can hold on to the ball and make some plays in practice then I bet we see it in a game later this season.

Like I have said before I love how this coaching staff does not stand pat and accept things for what they are. They keep trying to change things up and get better where they can.

baja
11-05-2012, 10:31 AM
;)Is Hellman related to the dudes who make Mayo?

"How washout" whaaaHuh?

I think as the year goes on they would be smart to at least try some mCcluster type plays with Holliday in practice, if he can hold on to the ball and make some plays in practice then I bet we see it in a game later this season.

Like I have said before I love how this coaching staff does not stand pat and accept things for what they are. They keep trying to change things up and get better where they can.

Maybe save him as a surprise weapon in a crucial game.

That is another thing Shanny was great at, saving a great play all season and springing it in a crucial game late in the season.

lonestar
11-05-2012, 11:09 AM
Is Hellman related to the dudes who make Mayo?

"How washout" whaaaHuh?

I think as the year goes on they would be smart to at least try some mCcluster type plays with Holliday in practice, if he can hold on to the ball and make some plays in practice then I bet we see it in a game later this season.

Like I have said before I love how this coaching staff does not stand pat and accept things for what they are. They keep trying to change things up and get better where they can.

should have been Hillman but my iPad changes words around from time to time..

Not so sure we need to be adding anything to this kids plate just yet.. lets let him become second nature on every punt/KO that he gets..

I would think that Elway and Manning have already thought about it but Know that Hillman gets his chance first..

broncosteven
11-05-2012, 06:21 PM
should have been Hillman but my iPad changes words around from time to time..

Not so sure we need to be adding anything to this kids plate just yet.. lets let him become second nature on every punt/KO that he gets..

I would think that Elway and Manning have already thought about it but Know that Hillman gets his chance first..

That explains the Tanahan crap!