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View Full Version : Von Miller against the run


Houshyamama
10-23-2012, 01:15 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8540723/nfl-record-denver-broncos-afc-best

an excerpt if you don't have insider:

The top playmaker, though, has unquestionably been Von Miller. As a rookie in 2011, Miller collected 11.5 sacks, but he was one-dimensional, with only eight defeats (tackles that cause a loss of yardage, turnover or third- or fourth-down stop) against the run. This year, he's even more effective against the pass, with six sacks in six games. Better yet, he has blossomed as an impact run defender. He leads the league with 10 run defeats this year, besting his rookie total with 10 games to go. Only the incomparable J.J. Watt has more total defeats (run and pass) than Miller in 2012. In any other season Miller would be a strong candidate for Defensive Player of the Year, but Watt is virtually a lock to take that hardware home. Could Watt and the Texans defeat Miller's Broncos in a playoff game, though? That's no lock at all.

broncocalijohn
10-23-2012, 01:33 PM
I need this in grid format.

Agamemnon
10-23-2012, 01:35 PM
Von Miller > J.J. Watt

Jesterhole
10-23-2012, 01:43 PM
I'd love having them both...

Agamemnon
10-23-2012, 01:51 PM
I'd love having them both...

LOL

Obvious statement of the day.

Houshyamama
10-23-2012, 01:57 PM
I need this in grid format.

http://i.imgur.com/N4Ydy.jpg

Denver Bronco56
10-23-2012, 02:02 PM
The homer in me wants to say the Miller has a shot... and if he continues to play the way he is he could...


But the media has fallen in love with JJ Watt, and he deserves attention for his skills but i cant turn on ESPN or NFL Network without some piece or comment about him..


Watt would need to level off and miller come on really strong the rest of the season.

Kaylore
10-23-2012, 02:04 PM
As long as he keeps making pro-bowls, I'm cool with it.

Bigdawg26
10-23-2012, 02:04 PM
The homer in me wants to say the Miller has a shot... and if he continues to play the way he is he could...


But the media has fallen in love with JJ Watt, and he deserves attention for his skills but i cant turn on ESPN or NFL Network without some piece or comment about him..


Watt would need to level off and miller come on really strong the rest of the season.

This!

Bronco Rob
10-23-2012, 02:08 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3664738&postcount=24





:thumbs:

Rock Chalk
10-23-2012, 03:37 PM
Tune into a Houston Texan game and you will see why the media has fallen in love with Watt.

Dude is in straight beast mode.

What I cant stand is anytime he makes a play, my facebook get's littered with "WATT Just happened" by all my effing friends down here. Its annoying as ****.
The homer in me wants to say the Miller has a shot... and if he continues to play the way he is he could...


But the media has fallen in love with JJ Watt, and he deserves attention for his skills but i cant turn on ESPN or NFL Network without some piece or comment about him..


Watt would need to level off and miller come on really strong the rest of the season.

lonestar
10-23-2012, 03:42 PM
The homer in me wants to say the Miller has a shot... and if he continues to play the way he is he could...


But the media has fallen in love with JJ Watt, and he deserves attention for his skills but i cant turn on ESPN or NFL Network without some piece or comment about him..


Watt would need to level off and miller come on really strong the rest of the season.

IF DEN was 5-1 they would be making much the same comments about him also.. OOPS I meant if our defense was even close to HOU's..

extralife
10-23-2012, 03:52 PM
Watt has been much better than Miller, don't kid yourself. He has an impact on virtually every play. Part of me thinks he can't possibly keep this up, but defenders like this do pop up on occasion.

I'm going to be kind of mad if Watt ends up the better player long term.

Rock Chalk
10-23-2012, 03:52 PM
IF DEN was 5-1 they would be making much the same comments about him also.. OOPS I meant if our defense was even close to HOU's..

According to Football Outsiders (Yeah I know, stat geeks), Denver's defense is rather close to Houstons.

They are ranked 3rd overall and ours is ranked 6th. Their methodology accounts for the offenses faced. Denver has faced the #1, #9, #10, #19 and #25 rated offenses so far (their rankings) (av Offensive Rank 10.67). Houston has faced the #18, #31, #4, #29, #36, #3 and #12 ranked offenses (Avg Offensive Rank 19). Denver is giving up 23.0 p/pg and Houston 18.3 p/pg.

TIFWIW though. Im not a big believer in their statistics or anything but I think they do a better job of comparison than the typical stats do since they adjust their rankings based on strength of opponent.

Edit:

Sorry, I forgot a number in the Denver numbers (I saw our offensive rank avg, and its way too high). We have also played the #11 offense. I only have 5 but got my average dividing by six earlier. Our average offense we have faced is ranked 12.5, NOT 10.67.

Rock Chalk
10-23-2012, 03:54 PM
I'm going to be kind of mad if Watt ends up the better player long term.

This would make sense if Von Miller was a scrub.

But getting mad that one all-star is slightly better longer term than another all-star is kind of nit-picky dont you think?

extralife
10-23-2012, 03:57 PM
But getting mad that one all-star is slightly better longer term than another all-star is kind of nit-picky dont you think?

Of course it is. But that's sports.

Rock Chalk
10-23-2012, 04:03 PM
Of course it is. But that's idiotic fans.

FIFY

rbackfactory80
10-23-2012, 04:12 PM
How can someone be a lock with 10 f-ing games left to play?

canadianbroncosfan
10-23-2012, 04:12 PM
This would make sense if Von Miller was a scrub.

But getting mad that one all-star is slightly better longer term than another all-star is kind of nit-picky dont you think?

No doubt, these guys have pretty comparable stats through their first season and a half. Oh and Von played a lot of his first season with a cast on.

extralife
10-23-2012, 04:30 PM
FIFY

...you're really going to get mad about this?

HorseHead
10-23-2012, 04:51 PM
No losers in this situation..both are sick. Watt had a good one the other day against the Ravens. They had him mic'd up, and Ray Rice kind of nicked him with a chippy hit.

Watt looks at Rice and tells him..."I've eaten burritos bigger than you.."..I heard that, I tell myself this guy is the real deal..

Lestat
10-23-2012, 05:07 PM
I'd love having them both...

Oh God i would have a fangasm if that happened.
opposing offenses would **** bricks if that happened in a non pro bowl game.

gyldenlove
10-23-2012, 05:24 PM
I honestly don't give a **** if Miller wins a DPOY award or gets on the all-pro team - I want him to bring him a few Lombardi trophies to Denver, that is all I care about. Miller is the type of defensive stud who can take over a game, he is the guy you have to gameplan around.

If this team can get into a habbit of building leads with Manning putting early points on the board and then letting the pass rush and secondary take over the game and preserve the win - this team can win a super bowl. We have a strong pass rush and a good secondary despite our problems at safety.

Lestat
10-23-2012, 05:39 PM
I honestly don't give a **** if Miller wins a DPOY award or gets on the all-pro team - I want him to bring him a few Lombardi trophies to Denver, that is all I care about. Miller is the type of defensive stud who can take over a game, he is the guy you have to gameplan around.

If this team can get into a habbit of building leads with Manning putting early points on the board and then letting the pass rush and secondary take over the game and preserve the win - this team can win a super bowl. We have a strong pass rush and a good secondary despite our problems at safety.

i wouldn't say that if i were you.
since 1974 13 defensive players of the year have gone to the super bowl. 11 of them helped their team win the championship. including 3 of 4 since 2000.

TheReverend
10-23-2012, 05:53 PM
I'd love to see him feast on the weaker portion of the schedule and surge in DPOY contention.

Would add another element of excitement to our playoff push :)

errand
10-23-2012, 05:58 PM
IF DEN was 5-1 they would be making much the same comments about him also.. OOPS I meant if our defense was even close to HOU's..

Von's a big reason we're sitting at .500 despite notoriously starting behind the 8 ball this early part of the season.

Lestat
10-23-2012, 06:02 PM
Von is a beast. he's been schemed around, double teamed, chopped, leg whipped and just about everything else and he still makes an impact on the game. then when you have to throw he sacks those mothers like a fiend.

DivineLegion
10-23-2012, 08:31 PM
With Elvis drawing more attention because of his recent play, I thin Von is going to get fewer double teams. That alone should level the playing field a little. I like the fact that JDR isn't rushing Von EVERY down, because that versatility opens him up for more one on one situations. If you know Vons coming every snap its easy to block him out of a play, but if he drops back into coverage 20% of the time teams are forced to roll double teams to Elvis or Big Vick. What the broncos need is Wolfe to come along as an UT, and a nasty RE. Another D-linemen who could penetrate would go a long way in turning this Defense completely around.

Bacchus
10-23-2012, 08:43 PM
According to Football Outsiders (Yeah I know, stat geeks), Denver's defense is rather close to Houstons.

They are ranked 3rd overall and ours is ranked 6th. Their methodology accounts for the offenses faced. Denver has faced the #1, #9, #10, #19 and #25 rated offenses so far (their rankings) (av Offensive Rank 10.67). Houston has faced the #18, #31, #4, #29, #36, #3 and #12 ranked offenses (Avg Offensive Rank 19). Denver is giving up 23.0 p/pg and Houston 18.3 p/pg.

TIFWIW though. Im not a big believer in their statistics or anything but I think they do a better job of comparison than the typical stats do since they adjust their rankings based on strength of opponent.

Good stuff, Denver has another top 5 offense in the Saints this week. By the time Denver starts the second half of the season they should be primed to make a big run. Playing good teams makes you better and so they should be ready to go 7-1, 6-2 the last 8 games.

Mogulseeker
10-23-2012, 08:52 PM
JJ Watt is a beast, and so is Von. Insofar as who I'd take, I'm partial to Von, just because he's been on the team.

But if we had Watt, Doom, and Von on the same team, we could bring Ray Crockett out of retirement because the QB would never get a pass off.

Conklin
10-23-2012, 08:56 PM
Patrick Peterson is better than both

maher_tyler
10-23-2012, 09:01 PM
With Elvis drawing more attention because of his recent play, I thin Von is going to get fewer double teams. That alone should level the playing field a little. I like the fact that JDR isn't rushing Von EVERY down, because that versatility opens him up for more one on one situations. If you know Vons coming every snap its easy to block him out of a play, but if he drops back into coverage 20% of the time teams are forced to roll double teams to Elvis or Big Vick. What the broncos need is Wolfe to come along as an UT, and a nasty RE. Another D-linemen who could penetrate would go a long way in turning this Defense completely around.

I agree. Good post. There have been times where is see Von in coverage and think to myslef, wtf? They think he is going to rush but doesn't leaving Doom in a one on one situation. OTher guys along the front 4 need to step up and make **** happen when Von isn't getting after the QB.

The Joker
10-23-2012, 09:23 PM
Damn, that 2011 draft had some talent at the top.

Miller, Peterson, Watt and AJ Green are already among the best players in the NFL at their positions.

Julio Jones, Aldon Smith, Ryan Kerrigan and Robert Quinn have been slam dunk picks for their teams too.

Chiefs and Raiders both picked a great year to not have a high pick!

Houshyamama
10-23-2012, 09:25 PM
Patrick Peterson is better than bothhttp://static.themetapicture.com/media/funny-gif-asian-guy-thumbs-up.gif

uplink
10-23-2012, 09:30 PM
Von is ubiquitous on the playing field. Is that a valid use of the word ubiquitous?

theAPAOps5
10-23-2012, 10:00 PM
Patrick Peterson is better than both

You so nailed that impression of TheRev!

Houshyamama
10-23-2012, 10:51 PM
Von is ubiquitous on the playing field. Is that a valid use of the word ubiquitous?

u·biq·ui·tous/yo͞oˈbikwətəs/
Adjective:
Present, appearing, or found everywhere: "his ubiquitous influence".
Synonyms:
omnipresent

Sounds about right.

Mogulseeker
10-23-2012, 11:46 PM
Von is ubiquitous on the playing field. Is that a valid use of the word ubiquitous?

Yes, actually.

Lolad
10-24-2012, 05:48 AM
If our defense played with a lead I think we would be a much better team. I hope the offense starts putting points on the board early. Force teams to pass I still don't trust our run defense.

Bacchus
10-24-2012, 05:55 AM
If our defense played with a lead I think we would be a much better team. I hope the offense starts putting points on the board early. Force teams to pass I still don't trust our run defense.

I agree, when Denver gets this offense going in the first half the defense will become a top 5 unit.

Rock Chalk
10-24-2012, 06:09 AM
...you're really going to get mad about this?

Who's mad?

Just making an observation.

Flex Gunmetal
10-24-2012, 08:20 AM
How can someone be a lock with 10 f-ing games left to play?

Dude has 10 sacks in 7 games, and makes an impact on about every play. He'll level off some, but baring injury, he's going to win DPOY.

gyldenlove
10-24-2012, 08:44 AM
i wouldn't say that if i were you.
since 1974 13 defensive players of the year have gone to the super bowl. 11 of them helped their team win the championship. including 3 of 4 since 2000.

So you are telling me that in the 38 years since 1974, 13 times a defensive player of the year has been gone to the super bowl...

And in the 12 years since 2000 they DPOY has a 1 in 4 chance of being on the super bowl winning team?

Okay, I revise my statement. I want Von Miller to win a handful of super bowl MVPs. Since 1974 every super bowl MVP has helped his team win the super bowl and since 2000 13 of 13 super bowl MVPs have won the super bowl.

MagicHef
10-24-2012, 09:24 AM
Dude has 10 sacks in 7 games, and makes an impact on about every play. He'll level off some, but baring injury, he's going to win DPOY.

Watt has 9.5, Matthews has 9.

Von and Elvis actually each have more total pressures than Watt, even though they've played one game less.

Stats-wise, it isn't locked up. Media love-wise, maybe.

TheReverend
10-24-2012, 09:25 AM
Watt has 9.5, Matthews has 9.

Von and Elvis actually each have more total pressures than Watt, even though they've played one game less.

Stats-wise, it isn't locked up. Media love-wise, maybe.

There are other aspects to the game than pass-rushing, fyi

baja
10-24-2012, 09:39 AM
Sure it would be great if Von was honored with DPOY but who isn't thrilled with his progress this year? Heck he could be having the infamous sophomore slump.

MagicHef
10-24-2012, 09:39 AM
There are other aspects to the game than pass-rushing, fyi

Sure there are, but there may as well not be when they are considering giving the DPOY to a DL.

mwill07
10-24-2012, 10:08 AM
When we consistently play with a lead, Vons sack total will skyrocket. No reason to think he won't be able to pass JJ. Heck, we have two games vs Quinn on the schedule - he could 7-8 sacks between those two games alone.

Where JJ will maintain a clear advantage is in passes defended... 10 on the season. wow.

TheReverend
10-24-2012, 10:10 AM
Sure there are, but there may as well not be when they are considering giving the DPOY to a DL.

...that's counter-intuitive to your point, man.

You complained about media hype for Watt over Matthews and used sacks to reference. Clearly JJ is having the more complete season THUS FAR even though the two are comparable in sacks.

Sooooooooooooo... what are you trying to say?

Flex Gunmetal
10-24-2012, 10:22 AM
Watt has 9.5, Matthews has 9.

Von and Elvis actually each have more total pressures than Watt, even though they've played one game less.

Stats-wise, it isn't locked up. Media love-wise, maybe.

Have you even been watching? Watt is making plays everywhere, in every facet. He is unquestioningly outplaying every defensive player in the NFL.

MagicHef
10-24-2012, 10:47 AM
...that's counter-intuitive to your point, man.

You complained about media hype for Watt over Matthews and used sacks to reference. Clearly JJ is having the more complete season THUS FAR even though the two are comparable in sacks.

Sooooooooooooo... what are you trying to say?

I'm not complaining, so far JJ absolutely deserves to be in the lead for DPOY. I'm just saying he doesn't really have it locked up yet. If he finishes he season around 15 sacks and Matthews gets 20+, JJ won't get DPOY no matter how good he is against the run.

Tim
10-24-2012, 10:53 AM
I'm not complaining, so far JJ absolutely deserves to be in the lead for DPOY. I'm just saying he doesn't really have it locked up yet. If he finishes he season around 15 sacks and Matthews gets 20+, JJ won't get DPOY no matter how good he is against the run.
Kind of like Terrell Suggs and Jared Allen last year huh?

Rock Chalk
10-24-2012, 11:07 AM
Have you even been watching? Watt is making plays everywhere, in every facet. He is unquestioningly outplaying every defensive player in the NFL.

Honestly I cannot believe that we are discussing this.

MagicHef
10-24-2012, 11:23 AM
Kind of like Terrell Suggs and Jared Allen last year huh?

Well, you have to be on a good team, too.

MagicHef
10-24-2012, 11:24 AM
Honestly I cannot believe that we are discussing this.

So you believe that Watt has it locked up? There is literally no chance that anyone else could get DPOY?

Bacchus
10-24-2012, 11:35 AM
So you believe that Watt has it locked up? There is literally no chance that anyone else could get DPOY?

He could get injured:welcome:

extralife
10-24-2012, 11:50 AM
I think Charles Tillman has a real shot at DPOY

TheReverend
10-24-2012, 12:17 PM
I think Charles Tillman has a real shot at DPOY

I agree with this. A month ago I was saying he needs to start getting looks for future HoF consideration. Quietly he's put together an amazing career and even with the amazing season he's currently having, no one's really noticing?

Willynowei
10-24-2012, 12:30 PM
Who is JJ Watt? sounds like a STD ;-)

baja
10-24-2012, 12:36 PM
I think Charles Tillman has a real shot at DPOY

He played Megatron straight and played him well. Very impressive.

Stagger Lee
10-24-2012, 01:14 PM
You guys are all nuts. The smart money is on Joe Mays

broncocalijohn
10-24-2012, 01:23 PM
You guys are all nuts. The smart money is on Joe Mays

Dumbass! DPOY doesn't mean Defenseless Player of the Year.

Rock Chalk
10-24-2012, 01:37 PM
So you believe that Watt has it locked up? There is literally no chance that anyone else could get DPOY?

Barring injury? Yep.

I have seen nothing to give me any reason to doubt Watt is going to taper off. The guy is in a great system and has a great defensive coordinator using him correctly and has a good talent base around him.

Rev mentions Tillman, but unless he records like 15 picks this year, it's probably not going to happen (but Tillman is having a monster season).

snowspot66
10-24-2012, 03:42 PM
Damn, that 2011 draft had some talent at the top.

Miller, Peterson, Watt and AJ Green are already among the best players in the NFL at their positions.

Julio Jones, Aldon Smith, Ryan Kerrigan and Robert Quinn have been slam dunk picks for their teams too.

Chiefs and Raiders both picked a great year to not have a high pick!

It will probably go down as one of the best first rounds ever. You go down the list and there are just not many bad players. A lot of great players. You had to try to fail that year.

bronc_fan23
10-24-2012, 03:44 PM
This guy's ceiling is so high.

R-Mac
10-24-2012, 04:02 PM
Watt is the best defensive player in the NFL this season. He is not just the DPOY at this point, he should get votes for MVP.

DENVERDUI55
10-24-2012, 06:17 PM
Watt has 9.5, Matthews has 9.

Von and Elvis actually each have more total pressures than Watt, even though they've played one game less.

Stats-wise, it isn't locked up. Media love-wise, maybe.

Watt has forced 3 or 4 ints with tipped balls. He has been the best defender this year.