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View Full Version : Matt Willis vs Anthony Gonzalez


DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 11:19 AM
Does anyone really think Willis is ever going to see the field again? Kind of pointless keeping guys around we don't trust like Moreno and Willis for injuries IMHO. Now I don't think Gonzalez is all that good either but at least Manning knows him and has prior knowledge so they will be on the same page on blitzes. I think we all had some kind of hopes for Caldwell well too but he has been nonexistent as well. 4th WR still is important and we have none.

We have sometime to work out some guys and I think we should work him out.

Jetmeck
10-17-2012, 11:21 AM
Willis has made plays for us at times. Moreno could be needed due to McGahee's age and getting nicked up.

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 11:28 AM
Willis has made plays for us at times. Moreno could be needed due to McGahee's age and getting nicked up.

This year? When!?! He has 2 catches for 28 yards. Caldwell has one rush and no catches. I know TEs play a bigger role then the 4th WR still we should look to improve. As for Moreno he is done in Denver. I can't believe you feel otherwise.

ludo21
10-17-2012, 11:29 AM
Willis makes one mistake on MNF and everyone goes crazy, the guy is our 4th WR.... not sure we expect a ton out of him, but he will be fine.

TheReverend
10-17-2012, 11:31 AM
Willis has been clutch and he's a pretty awesome ST player as well.

This thread is stupid.

TheReverend
10-17-2012, 11:32 AM
This year? When!?! He has 2 catches for 28 yards. Caldwell has one rush and no catches. I know TEs play a bigger role then the 4th WR still we should look to improve. As for Moreno he is done in Denver. I can't believe you feel otherwise.

Piss poor argument. Using YOUR logic, Gonzalez has 0 catches for 0 yards SINCE 2010 where he set the league on fire with 5 catches for 67 yards.

Mogulseeker
10-17-2012, 11:33 AM
Willis makes one mistake on MNF and everyone goes crazy, the guy is our 4th WR.... not sure we expect a ton out of him, but he will be fine.

He also dropped a routine pass, wide open in the end zone, that led to a loss against KC last year.

ludo21
10-17-2012, 11:36 AM
not sure this offense needs a 4th WR really, Green may make plays soon enough as he gets up to speed (maybe...)

TheReverend
10-17-2012, 11:36 AM
He also dropped a routine pass, wide open in the end zone, that led to a loss against KC last year.

The only TD of that game was a 21 yard run right over Von. Afterwards, he was benched for Haggan.

Should we cut him too?

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 11:36 AM
Willis has been clutch and he's a pretty awesome ST player as well.

This thread is stupid.

LOL I'm sure we will be using his awesomeness on SP teams real soon.

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 11:38 AM
The only TD of that game was a 21 yard run right over Von. Afterwards, he was benched for Haggan.

Should we cut him too?

Sweet argument

TheReverend
10-17-2012, 11:39 AM
LOL I'm sure we will be using his awesomeness on SP teams real soon.

...we do every single game. You know there's more players on ST than the kick returners, right?

TheReverend
10-17-2012, 11:39 AM
Sweet argument

^ this post is as intelligent as this thread. Congrats.

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 11:42 AM
...we do every single game. You know there's more players on ST than the kick returners, right?

We managed without him during the Raiders game just fine Hilarious!

TheReverend
10-17-2012, 11:48 AM
We managed without him during the Raiders game just fine Hilarious!

Insert Anthony Gonzalez's name there, along with every ****ing game the Colts have ever played Hilarious!

Ray Finkle
10-17-2012, 11:54 AM
Does anyone really think Willis is ever going to see the field again? Kind of pointless keeping guys around we don't trust like Moreno and Willis for injuries IMHO. Now I don't think Gonzalez is all that good either but at least Manning knows him and has prior knowledge so they will be on the same page on blitzes. I think we all had some kind of hopes for Caldwell well too but he has been nonexistent as well. 4th WR still is important and we have none.

We have sometime to work out some guys and I think we should work him out.

you mean the same Gonzalez that hasn't even had a try out after being cut from the Pats and was extremely overrated to begin with? Or is the same Gonzalez that cannot play a lick of special teams....

Maybe they do sign Gonzalez and release Willis....it's about the only way Moreno will ever see the field again.

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 11:57 AM
Insert Anthony Gonzalez's name there, along with every ****ing game the Colts have ever played Hilarious!

Never said Gonzalez was good, he is just better the Willis. 22 Career catches and you don't think the guy is replaceable. Unreal lol.

maven
10-17-2012, 12:00 PM
It's already getting late to add new players and Gonzalez hasn't had a sniff since being cut. To add can he play ST? Gonzalez is probably done playing in the NFL.

And if anyone to target GB has a ****ton of receivers.

Garcia Bronco
10-17-2012, 12:00 PM
Willis isn't going anywhere.

menonite
10-17-2012, 12:00 PM
Gonzalez is made of glass.

Ray Finkle
10-17-2012, 12:01 PM
Never said Gonzalez was good, he is just better the Willis. 22 Career catches and you don't think the guy is replaceable. Unreal lol.

you cannot always tell the value of a player based on stats.

Good special teams players are worth their weight in gold. Look at piss poor special teams and you'll see. Willis and Bruton bring more value to ST then they do as back ups.

DENVERDUI55
10-17-2012, 12:03 PM
Manning is racist he likes his slot guys to be white guys. LOL

TheReverend
10-17-2012, 12:09 PM
Never said Gonzalez was good, he is just better the Willis. 22 Career catches and you don't think the guy is replaceable. Unreal lol.

Unreplaceable? No.

Unreplaceable by Anthony Gonzalez? Yes.

Rabb
10-17-2012, 12:17 PM
He also dropped a routine pass, wide open in the end zone, that led to a loss against KC last year.

I would say us being a terrible team led to the loss more than anything.

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 12:20 PM
Unreplaceable? No.

Unreplaceable by Anthony Gonzalez? Yes.

The reality of it is our 4th WRs are worthless. Again never once did I say Gonzalez was good, he just understands what Manning is wanting ten times better then what Willis ever will. We have seen that is more important to Manning with how much he uses Stokley.

ludo21
10-17-2012, 12:22 PM
not saying Willis is unrepalceable... but he is serviceable and im sure they would have replaced him already if a WR on the wire was a worth a darn

TheReverend
10-17-2012, 12:23 PM
The reality of it is our 4th WRs are worthless.

But apparently a mused change to it is thread worthy.

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 12:30 PM
not saying Willis is unrepalceable... but he is serviceable and im sure they would have replaced him already if a WR on the wire was a worth a darn

There are WRs out there better then Willis. LOL.

ColoradoDarin
10-17-2012, 12:30 PM
Willis didn't recognize blitz and adjust his route. Last year I read an article about what Harbaugh did in SF to get Alex Smith from being an Int machine to throwing very few Ints (Giants game notwithstanding). The gist of it was that they built a hot route into every pass play. Which means that if there's a blitz, both the QB and the receiver don't have to make adjustments. QB recognizes blitz - throws the hot route immediately. WRs don't have to 1) recognize a blitz and 2) adjust based on that. It cut down on Smith's mistakes when he got blitzed. Now, this doesn't solve all problems, but I'm amazed that more teams don't employ a system like that.

Now, off to see if I can find the article quickly.

Edit: Found it a lot quicker than I thought - "Quarterbacking Made Simple (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7218353/quarterbacking-made-simple)"

Rabb
10-17-2012, 12:37 PM
There are WRs out there better then Willis. LOL.

I don't think that is in question at all, but it seems like at best we would get a "push" from any trade...so why bother when we have a kid that knows the system and is decent on ST?

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 12:43 PM
I don't think that is in question at all, but it seems like at best we would get a "push" from any trade...so why bother when we have a kid that knows the system and is decent on ST?

Well when it is third down who does Manning target the most? Stokley and Tamme. Gonzalez is the logical choice to replace Willis for that reason. As for ST I highly doubt there is much drop off getting rid of Willis.

Rabb
10-17-2012, 12:47 PM
Well when it is third down who does Manning target the most? Stokley and Tamme. Gonzalez is the logical choice to replace Willis for that reason. As for ST I highly doubt there is much drop off getting rid of Willis.

So because he targets Stokley and Tamme the most on 3rd down, we need to replace Willis?

I am not being a dick here, I just want to understand the logic.

maher_tyler
10-17-2012, 12:47 PM
It's already getting late to add new players and Gonzalez hasn't had a sniff since being cut. To add can he play ST? Gonzalez is probably done playing in the NFL.

And if anyone to target GB has a ****ton of receivers.

I'd take James Jones in a hreat beat. He will likely want #1/#2 money though.

Hasn't Caldwell been injured??

menonite
10-17-2012, 12:51 PM
Gonzales was injury prone, and what's worse, it seems to take him an extremely long time to heal.
He has basically retired from football and returned to school:

"I'm actually happy they released me," Gonzalez said. "My body definitely was and still is telling me you shouldn't be playing professional sports right now."

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120928/SPORTS03/209280368/Ex-Indianapolis-Colts-receiver-Anthony-Gonzlaez-graduate-school?nclick_check=1

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 12:51 PM
So because he targets Stokley and Tamme the most on 3rd down, we need to replace Willis?

I am not being a dick here, I just want to understand the logic.

He targets them because has trust in them. If Willis ever sees the field again do you think Manning is going to really use him? Get another guy Manning trusts is what I saying.

maher_tyler
10-17-2012, 12:54 PM
Willis didn't recognize blitz and adjust his route. Last year I read an article about what Harbaugh did in SF to get Alex Smith from being an Int machine to throwing very few Ints (Giants game notwithstanding). The gist of it was that they built a hot route into every pass play. Which means that if there's a blitz, both the QB and the receiver don't have to make adjustments. QB recognizes blitz - throws the hot route immediately. WRs don't have to 1) recognize a blitz and 2) adjust based on that. It cut down on Smith's mistakes when he got blitzed. Now, this doesn't solve all problems, but I'm amazed that more teams don't employ a system like that.

Now, off to see if I can find the article quickly.

Edit: Found it a lot quicker than I thought - "Quarterbacking Made Simple (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7218353/quarterbacking-made-simple)"

IDK, was the ball in the air and thats why Jammer came off of Willis to make a break on the ball?? It kinda looked to me Jammer was in a cover 2. Had Willis and PFM been on the same page, it looked like that play could have gone for a TD.

gyldenlove
10-17-2012, 01:08 PM
Willis didn't recognize blitz and adjust his route. Last year I read an article about what Harbaugh did in SF to get Alex Smith from being an Int machine to throwing very few Ints (Giants game notwithstanding). The gist of it was that they built a hot route into every pass play. Which means that if there's a blitz, both the QB and the receiver don't have to make adjustments. QB recognizes blitz - throws the hot route immediately. WRs don't have to 1) recognize a blitz and 2) adjust based on that. It cut down on Smith's mistakes when he got blitzed. Now, this doesn't solve all problems, but I'm amazed that more teams don't employ a system like that.

Now, off to see if I can find the article quickly.

Edit: Found it a lot quicker than I thought - "Quarterbacking Made Simple (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7218353/quarterbacking-made-simple)"

On the specific play Manning signaled Willis, I am guessing the signal means to change the route to a hot route. Manning made a similar signal to Decker and Stokley on the Stokley TD to change the play to get Stokley on the outside running the wheel route.

It isn't easy when you spend most of your time on the sideline or playing with the backups, which I believe is the reason Willis didn't make the change. I am not sure if another WR would have done better as the majority of pass play reps are absorbed by Stokley, Thomas, Decker, Dreesen and Tamme.

menonite
10-17-2012, 01:11 PM
Somebody in another thread posted a pic of the play in question and it looks like Stokley was wide open.

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 01:36 PM
Somebody in another thread posted a pic of the play in question and it looks like Stokley was wide open.

He was. Manning wanted Willis all the way. Some also said Willis didn't step onto the field after that play and I assume they are including ST as well. If that's the case do we really need another player taking up space like Moreno and Caldwell? I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Willis inactive against the Saints and Caldwell in the line up.

Garcia Bronco
10-17-2012, 02:27 PM
He was. Manning wanted Willis all the way. Some also said Willis didn't step onto the field after that play and I assume they are including ST as well. If that's the case do we really need another player taking up space like Moreno and Caldwell? I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Willis inactive against the Saints and Caldwell in the line up.

Peyton Manning is like John Elway. You either perform or get out of his huddle/no huddle. Willis can redeem himself I am sure. Not being allowed back int he game is an attention getter.

fontaine
10-17-2012, 02:32 PM
Danny Amendola is a FA next year.

This is the only WR I want added to Denver.

broncosteven
10-17-2012, 02:39 PM
Willis's value is on ST's if he can catch a couple balls then fine.

The guy I wish we still had around was Jason Hill, we cut him late, he got picked up and is making plays for the Jets of all teams. Just think what he would have done with Manning!

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 02:40 PM
Peyton Manning is like John Elway. You either perform or get out of his huddle/no huddle. Willis can redeem himself I am sure. Not being allowed back int he game is an attention getter.

If he didn't play and our ST didn't miss a beat then he has no value. We have a bye week, now is a good time to work out some people!

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 02:44 PM
Willis's value is on ST's if he can catch a couple balls then fine.

The guy I wish we still had around was Jason Hill, we cut him late, he got picked up and is making plays for the Jets of all teams. Just think what he would have done with Manning!

Yeah I saw that. Hill should have been kept over Caldwell.

smitty46953
10-17-2012, 03:47 PM
As a long time COLT fan, I do a lot of lurking here ... Just an opinion stay away from Gonzo, he just stays in his oxygen tent and never heals .... :strong:

Bronco Boy
10-17-2012, 05:39 PM
Willis is our most tenured WR. He's not going anywhere.

TD4HOF
10-17-2012, 05:47 PM
Special Teams baller. Those are so so important. Keep.

errand
10-17-2012, 05:57 PM
He targets them because has trust in them. If Willis ever sees the field again do you think Manning is going to really use him? Get another guy Manning trusts is what I saying.

Manning still throws the ball to McGahee doesn't he?

errand
10-17-2012, 05:59 PM
It isn't easy when you spend most of your time on the sideline or playing with the backups, which I believe is the reason Willis didn't make the change.


...or is he spending most of his time on the bench because he doesn't make the change?

broncosteven
10-17-2012, 06:10 PM
Danny Amendola is a FA next year.

This is the only WR I want added to Denver.

I can't see him hitting free agency.

StugotsIII
10-17-2012, 06:17 PM
Anthony Gonzalez is retired from football...

Gonzalez has moved on from football and has enrolled in the Stanford Graduate School of Business in mid September of 2012.

He was a hell of a WR however was plagued by injuries most of his career.

Rock Chalk
10-17-2012, 06:56 PM
Completely random but you know who I miss? Sam Brandon.

TE's couldnt do **** against us when we had Sam Brandon.

DBroncos4life
10-17-2012, 07:10 PM
Manning still throws the ball to McGahee doesn't he?

Are you suggesting Mcgahee isa guy we can bench or make inactive? That's what happens when average players make mistakes like Moreno and possibly Willis.

Bmore Manning
10-17-2012, 07:28 PM
I really like the idea behind the thread. But.. I will say that Denver needs an explosive play maker on the outside, making DT the #2 and Decker in the slot. Willis is trash, Idc what people on here say. I like how your thinking, improving the team, but your gonna face scrutiny for it..

Bmore Manning
10-17-2012, 07:33 PM
Dwayne Bowe wants out of KC..

Jetland
10-18-2012, 12:34 AM
Anthony Gonzalez is retired from football...

Gonzalez has moved on from football and has enrolled in the Stanford Graduate School of Business in mid September of 2012.

He was a hell of a WR however was plagued by injuries most of his career.

huh....now where did he go to college
hmmmmmmm

Jetmeck
10-18-2012, 01:06 AM
Dwayne Bowe wants out of KC..

Alligator arms is right where he belongs.

Jetmeck
10-18-2012, 01:07 AM
Are you suggesting Mcgahee isa guy we can bench or make inactive? That's what happens when average players make mistakes like Moreno and possibly Willis.


not many teams have starting quality backups,,,hence they are called backups

Action
10-18-2012, 01:39 AM
I really like the idea behind the thread. But.. I will say that Denver needs an explosive play maker on the outside, making DT the #2 and Decker in the slot. Willis is trash, Idc what people on here say. I like how your thinking, improving the team, but your gonna face scrutiny for it..

:spit: DT a #2 WR?

Do you people think in terms of putting together a pro bowl team?

A 6'3 230 pound WR running a 4.3 as a #2 WR. LOL

Let's not consider the fact that he leads the league in catches over 20 yards. Let's not consider he is the most efficient WR in terms of catches per target. He has 37 targets, LESS than anyone in the TOP 20 WR's in the league in yardage... and he's 6th in yardage!

Let's not forget that this team is improving week to week offensively.

This **** is a joke sometimes on here, people talking about needing a better WR so DT can be #2.

cutthemdown
10-18-2012, 03:27 AM
After DT, Decker, Stokely, Tamme, Dressen just not much left to go around. Not sure our 4th WR at this point matter much.

The Joker
10-18-2012, 03:55 AM
Thomas and Decker look like a very good starting WR tandem moving forward.

Thomas has looked like a legit number one receiver since day one to be honest. His issue has always been his health, any time he's been on the field and fully healthy he's been great. If he stays healthy he's going to have a great career.

Decker as a number two looks good to me. He's had 11 TD's since the start of last year and a lot of that came playing with Tebow, with whom he didn't have great chemistry. He doesn't have the big play ability of physical gifts that Thomas does, but as a number two guy he's fine.

The issue is that after them we don't really have anyone that I'd feel at all comfortable starting. Stokely is doing well as ever, but he's a pure slot guy. Willis I like as a special teams guy and depth player, but he's limited. Caldwell has been a major disappointment. If Decker or Thomas go down the drop off will be major, need them to stay healthy.

I think WR will be an area we'll look to improve next offseason. There could actually be some great options in FA with Greg Jennings, Dwayne Bowe, Mike Wallace and Wes Welker all possibly hitting the market. I doubt we go after any of them though and I'd rather we spent the money elsewhere, quite honestly. Try and pick up a mid range FA type for depth and then maybe spend a 3rd or 4th round pick on someone who we feel could start down the line.

The only possible target I could see would be Welker. He'd be an amazing weapon for Manning, I have no idea what sort of contract he's going to get though given his age and the fact that he's a slot receiver, albeit a fantastic one. But I'd still like to see us invest a decent draft pick in the position next year.

errand
10-18-2012, 06:11 AM
Are you suggesting Mcgahee isa guy we can bench or make inactive? That's what happens when average players make mistakes like Moreno and possibly Willis.

No....you said Manning targets guys he trusts...and while Willis did screw up, can you honestly say it was as bad as Mcgahee's two gaffes? I say an open man is an open man....Manning will throw to them.

Bmore Manning
10-18-2012, 06:57 AM
:spit: DT a #2 WR?

Do you people think in terms of putting together a pro bowl team?

A 6'3 230 pound WR running a 4.3 as a #2 WR. LOL

Let's not consider the fact that he leads the league in catches over 20 yards. Let's not consider he is the most efficient WR in terms of catches per target. He has 37 targets, LESS than anyone in the TOP 20 WR's in the league in yardage... and he's 6th in yardage!

Let's not forget that this team is improving week to week offensively.

This **** is a joke sometimes on here, people talking about needing a better WR so DT can be #2.

Decker belongs in the slot. And what difference does it make as to who is the #1 or #2 WR? If Decker is in the slot and DT is the #2, then that means there must be a really good #1 WR on the team.. But you can flip it to a negative.

DBroncos4life
10-18-2012, 08:54 AM
No....you said Manning targets guys he trusts...and while Willis did screw up, can you honestly say it was as bad as Mcgahee's two gaffes? I say an open man is an open man....Manning will throw to them.

Dude has to get on the field first. McGahee is our starting RB not some fringe ST player.

broncocalijohn
10-18-2012, 09:08 AM
Willis makes one mistake on MNF and everyone goes crazy, the guy is our 4th WR.... not sure we expect a ton out of him, but he will be fine.

But when you get your chance, you don't **** up like that. Worse is he was communicating with Manning and let him know he can trust him. Then he completely does a reversal and gives up a Pick 6. You can't be a 4th receiver with barely any receptions and **** up like that.

Kaylore
10-18-2012, 09:21 AM
I am ok with brigning in competition at receiver. I do not see how a guy who hasn't played football in two years is supposed to be an upgrade over Willis. DBroncos, why Gonzalez? He's clearly a bust and not NFL calibre. Why do you think we need to sign him specifically? You could have mentioned any number of receivers. Why some bust who is two years rusty? I would take TO over Gonzalez.

DBroncos4life
10-18-2012, 10:08 AM
I am ok with brigning in competition at receiver. I do not see how a guy who hasn't played football in two years is supposed to be an upgrade over Willis. DBroncos, why Gonzalez? He's clearly a bust and not NFL calibre. Why do you think we need to sign him specifically? You could have mentioned any number of receivers. Why some bust who is two years rusty? I would take TO over Gonzalez.

Well mainly him because he is on the same page as Manning. Look at how well Manning is doing with the old broken down Stokley, who was also hurt a ton. I was looking for chemistry over talent this late in the year is all.

NFLBRONCO
10-18-2012, 10:19 AM
not sure this offense needs a 4th WR really, Green may make plays soon enough as he gets up to speed (maybe...)

I think with Manning we do. Manning demands alot more from his WR's then most QB's do. You can't expect all top 3 guys to stay healthy all year.

ludo21
10-18-2012, 10:26 AM
I think with Manning we do. Manning demands alot more from his WR's then most QB's do. You can't expect all top 3 guys to stay healthy all year.

I think if Stokes gets hurt Willis would be fine, if DT or Decker get hurt we're probably screwed

broncosteven
10-18-2012, 10:57 AM
After DT, Decker, Stokely, Tamme, Dressen just not much left to go around. Not sure our 4th WR at this point matter much.

I remember how we couldn't find a 3rd WR for decades. We spent year after year bringing in Willie Green and Robert Brooks Et all...

I am happy with the corps we have now and hope they all stay healthy. I would like to have Hill back though...