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GoBroncos DownUnder
10-16-2012, 09:19 AM
Was I the only person who was scratching their head at some of the calls?

1st quarter-
The Rivers "false start" out of shotgun was a phantom call, even after they explained it ... that false start just was NOT THERE at the time the ref threw his flag.
The Rivers "false start" when he was under center ... again, NOT THERE when the flag was thrown.

4th quarter-
The Decker "touching" the defender flag ... really? Some of the Denver DBs were mugging SD receivers and didn't get flagged.


You can say they "offset" each other, and that it all works out in the end, but should we really be reduced to the ref's flagging plays to "make amends" for prior calls?

Kaylore
10-16-2012, 09:25 AM
The Decker PI call had me all

http://www.sectalk.com/board/public/imported_images/ohnblog.com/ani_wtf_cube.gif

bronco militia
10-16-2012, 09:26 AM
google Jeff Triplet...seriously, **** that guy

gyldenlove
10-16-2012, 09:27 AM
Was I the only person who was scratching their head at some of the calls?

1st quarter-
The Rivers "false start" out of shotgun was a phantom call, even after they explained it ... that false start just was NOT THERE at the time the ref threw his flag.
The Rivers "false start" when he was under center ... again, NOT THERE when the flag was thrown.

4th quarter-
The Decker "touching" the defender flag ... really? Some of the Denver DBs were mugging SD receivers and didn't get flagged.


You can say they "offset" each other, and that it all works out in the end, but should we really be reduced to the ref's flagging plays to "make amends" for prior calls?

The under center one I could sort of see, the shotgun call was a complete phantom call. There is a limit to how much you are allowed to simulate the snap and when Rivers got called under center he definitely put his down and came back up like he was getting the ball.

The offensive pass intereference on Decker was a phantom call as well, he in no way interfered with the defenders ability to make the catch - which is something that should be assessed according to the rules.

I couldn't really tell on the first Harris interception if he got a hold of Royal more or less than 5 yards down field, it looked borderline when I saw it live.

Gort
10-16-2012, 09:29 AM
wait... i thought everything was going to be unicorns and rainbows once the regular refs came back and we got rid of the replacement refs?

is the reffing still as bad as it ever was? i'm pretty sure that the only reason the Sparklers didn't get called for holding was because they were not - never, ever - holding Doomervil or any other Bronco.

are you casting aspersions on the regular refs? i may have to report you to Emperor Goodell.

2KBack
10-16-2012, 09:31 AM
The under center one I could sort of see, the shotgun call was a complete phantom call. There is a limit to how much you are allowed to simulate the snap and when Rivers got called under center he definitely put his down and came back up like he was getting the ball.

The offensive pass intereference on Decker was a phantom call as well, he in no way interfered with the defenders ability to make the catch - which is something that should be assessed according to the rules.

I couldn't really tell on the first Harris interception if he got a hold of Royal more or less than 5 yards down field, it looked borderline when I saw it live.

Royal initiated the contact on the INT, good no call.

Deckers PI? Someone got paid off

I agree on the 2 Rivers False starts. I thought the shotgun one was a bad call, but he had a pronounced head bob when he was under center.

GoBroncos DownUnder
10-16-2012, 09:43 AM
Oh, and I LOVED it when the commentators said "Ironically, the QB false start rule was largely introduced to stop Peyton Manning from moving and drawing the opposing D offsides"

Kid A
10-16-2012, 09:43 AM
Compared to the replacement refs you could see even this crew's higher quality in how they got almost every close catch and the River's fumble correct live. During the strike the Stokely TD, the Tamme first down all would have been a 50/50 shot of being called incomplete with a 5 minute review following. So they were seeing the game speed fine.

But better game flow doesn't make up for ticky tack penalties. Just really weird in a game with only a couple holding calls made that they were over-the-top on hand gestures and offensive PI.

BowlenBall
10-16-2012, 10:14 AM
I thought both of Rivers false starts were ridiculous... neither were even close. Nor was the Decker PI call.

All 3 were real head-scratchers for me, almost like the refs had decided to throw the flag before the play, no matter what.

Drunken.Broncoholic
10-16-2012, 10:14 AM
Bottom line,

Real refs > replacement refs.

TonyR
10-16-2012, 10:19 AM
The Decker PI call had me all...


Live action for some reason I thought he may have pushed off. Replays clearly showed he did no such thing. Terrible call. PM dropping angry F bombs on the sideline after, coupled with the win, almost made it worth it!

LRtagger
10-16-2012, 10:20 AM
I thought the refereeing was terrible, but was a non-factor in the outcome of the game.

WolfpackGuy
10-16-2012, 10:22 AM
Not defending Boldin by any means, but they missed him recovering his fumble before the pileup.

TonyR
10-16-2012, 10:24 AM
Not defending Boldin by any means, but they missed him recovering his fumble before the pileup.

Could this have been challenged? Anyone know? I'm guessing not.

WolfpackGuy
10-16-2012, 10:28 AM
Could this have been challenged? Anyone know? I'm guessing not.

I'm thinking not challengeable because of the uncertainty of when the whistle was blown, but you could see early on he had it in the reverse angle.

I also think they missed the SD guy in Holliday's face on the muff because I believe he called a fair catch and that guy was all over him.

Smilin Assassin
10-16-2012, 10:29 AM
I really think that conversation about Leonhard's int was about dual possession. I think one of the refs squashed that real quick just "because".

The spiking of the ball ticked me off, though. I know emotions run high, but for ****'s sake, you're a professional. Know that doing that is going to cost your team.

LRtagger
10-16-2012, 10:35 AM
I thought the fair catch muff should have been an interference penalty also. If a guy calls for a fair catch dont the defenders have to give a 2 yard cushion?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jeff-triplette-continues-amaze-calling-bizarre-false-starts-022123078--nfl.html

Here at Shutdown Corner, we've documented the bizarre exploits of Jeff Triplette, the NFL's worst non-replacement ref, for quite some time. There was the Monday Night Football game last season, when Triplette started making stuff up (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/adventures-in-officiating-jeff-triplette-is-just-making-stuff-up?urn=nfl,wp14832) on a call/no-call in a game between the New Orleans Saints and Atlanta Falcons. To be fair, Jeff, it's tough to know the difference between a hold and not a hold when the signals you're getting from your home planet are interfering with the frequency of your wireless microphone.

BowlenBall
10-16-2012, 10:38 AM
I thought the fair catch muff should have been an interference penalty also. If a guy calls for a fair catch dont the defenders have to give a 2 yard cushion?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jeff-triplette-continues-amaze-calling-bizarre-false-starts-022123078--nfl.html

That's right... I totally forgot about that one. Go back and watch it... the Chargers player is so close that his knee touches Holliday's. If that's not an interference call, then there's no such thing.

Make that 4 inexplicable calls then:

1) Holliday's fumble non-call
2) Rivers' false start #1
3) Rivers' false start #2
4) Decker's phantom PI

ColoradoDarin
10-16-2012, 10:40 AM
Not defending Boldin by any means, but they missed him recovering his fumble before the pileup.

I couldn't believe that one either, I thought I saw it that way live and confirmed it when they replayed it. He has the ball, clearly. Then he's touched (down supposedly) and the Chargers jump on him and rip the ball away.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-16-2012, 11:02 AM
Bottom line,

Real refs > replacement refs.

Can't believe some people still need this spelled out for them.

enjolras
10-16-2012, 11:03 AM
Could this have been challenged? Anyone know? I'm guessing not.

All turnovers are reviewed, so it was looked at.

BowlenBall
10-16-2012, 11:07 AM
What Peyton thinks of Triplette:

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Peyton-Manning.gif

Cosmo
10-16-2012, 11:11 AM
What Peyton thinks of Triplette:

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Peyton-Manning.gif

Damn did we get some good gifs from that game.

doonwise
10-16-2012, 11:12 AM
What Peyton thinks of Triplette:

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Peyton-Manning.gif

Wasn't that his reaction after a run play was called on 3rd and 8? Quite an odd call.

LRtagger
10-16-2012, 11:15 AM
Bottom line,

Real refs > replacement refs.

Clearly, but that doesnt make Jeff Triplette a competent official.

Crushaholic
10-16-2012, 11:17 AM
If Rivers was a likeable guy, I would have felt sorry for him. As it stands, I think he's a jerk. The false starts may have been bogus, but it mentally rattled him, for the rest of the game...

Garcia Bronco
10-16-2012, 11:19 AM
Was I the only person who was scratching their head at some of the calls?

1st quarter-
The Rivers "false start" out of shotgun was a phantom call, even after they explained it ... that false start just was NOT THERE at the time the ref threw his flag.
The Rivers "false start" when he was under center ... again, NOT THERE when the flag was thrown.

4th quarter-
The Decker "touching" the defender flag ... really? Some of the Denver DBs were mugging SD receivers and didn't get flagged.


You can say they "offset" each other, and that it all works out in the end, but should we really be reduced to the ref's flagging plays to "make amends" for prior calls?

The Rivers one's were false starts, IMO. It's a new rule, and while it might not have been called correctly both times, it was still appropriate.

Garcia Bronco
10-16-2012, 11:23 AM
I'm thinking not challengeable because of the uncertainty of when the whistle was blown, but you could see early on he had it in the reverse angle.

I also think they missed the SD guy in Holliday's face on the muff because I believe he called a fair catch and that guy was all over him.

Absolutely. It was interference with a fair catch and it's against the rules.

this is why the ref Union fought the NFL on the new contract. The NFL would want to pull a guy like Triplette, who is a mistake machine, but the NFL needs a better training program in place. The refs union wanted no part of it.

Garcia Bronco
10-16-2012, 11:24 AM
The holding call on Koppen was bull**** ...as well as the hands to the face call on Von.

boltaneer
10-16-2012, 11:31 AM
Seems to be a lot of phantom PI (especially offensive PI) among other calls the past couple of weeks. I think the regular refs are still very rusty and are making a bunch of terrible but at least they have control of the game and are moving it at a "normal" pace.

Tombstone RJ
10-16-2012, 11:32 AM
No worries, these guys have their union and a big fat new contract so all is well. Nothing to see here, move along.

gyldenlove
10-16-2012, 11:52 AM
Absolutely. It was interference with a fair catch and it's against the rules.

this is why the ref Union fought the NFL on the new contract. The NFL would want to pull a guy like Triplette, who is a mistake machine, but the NFL needs a better training program in place. The refs union wanted no part of it.

That wasn't fair catch interference, the San Diego player didn't touch him, didn't impede his ability to make a catch by blocking his view of the ball and didn't threaten to run him over. Holliday was late getting to the ball and it came down too far in front of him for his short arms to reach it - sadly that was a mistake by a Denver player, not by the refs.

gyldenlove
10-16-2012, 11:53 AM
Not defending Boldin by any means, but they missed him recovering his fumble before the pileup.

On the slow it looked like he had control from one angle, but from the reverse you could see the ball was kind sitting on his side before the Charger came in there are snatched it.

Play2win
10-16-2012, 12:00 PM
The Decker PI call had me all



That **** was a touchdown, right? I didn't see he get touched or go out of bounds.

2KBack
10-16-2012, 12:04 PM
That wasn't fair catch interference, the San Diego player didn't touch him, didn't impede his ability to make a catch by blocking his view of the ball and didn't threaten to run him over. Holliday was late getting to the ball and it came down too far in front of him for his short arms to reach it - sadly that was a mistake by a Denver player, not by the refs.

The rule used to be that you had to give a 2 yard cushion if it is a fair catch....is that no longer the case?

enjolras
10-16-2012, 01:14 PM
The rule used to be that you had to give a 2 yard cushion if it is a fair catch....is that no longer the case?

It is not. The halo rule is gone as it wasn't called terribly consistently.

enjolras
10-16-2012, 01:14 PM
Another one that baffled me: Near the end of the third quarter a Chargers guy makes a move to the line of scrimmage and Franklin (smartly) jumps.

Somehow that was on Franklin.

Garcia Bronco
10-16-2012, 01:18 PM
That wasn't fair catch interference, the San Diego player didn't touch him, didn't impede his ability to make a catch by blocking his view of the ball and didn't threaten to run him over. Holliday was late getting to the ball and it came down too far in front of him for his short arms to reach it - sadly that was a mistake by a Denver player, not by the refs.

Yes he did. Their knees touched at he moved up to catch the ball. Meaning the defender impeded Holi from catching the ball. That's interference with the fair catch. So you're wrong.

Garcia Bronco
10-16-2012, 01:34 PM
It's a judgement call, but the digest says this

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/faircatch

canadianbroncosfan
10-16-2012, 01:39 PM
Royal initiated the contact on the INT, good no call.

Deckers PI? Someone got paid off

I agree on the 2 Rivers False starts. I thought the shotgun one was a bad call, but he had a pronounced head bob when he was under center.

Maybe it's just my complete bias, but me too. After Tirico read the rule aloud, I have to say I agree with the call. Stupid rule, but right call given the rule.

ZONA
10-16-2012, 03:42 PM
Wasn't that his reaction after a run play was called on 3rd and 8? Quite an odd call.

Yes, this is why on 3rd and 8 99.9% of teams will make a pass there and not run. It's almost always never successful. Horrible play call. You got #18 back there, throw the F'n ball.

USMCBladerunner
10-16-2012, 07:55 PM
Another one that baffled me: Near the end of the third quarter a Chargers guy makes a move to the line of scrimmage and Franklin (smartly) jumps.

Somehow that was on Franklin.

Franklin was being cute...he didn't instinctively react to a defensive player, which is what the rule is intended to address, rather he saw the defender encroach, then get back behind the LOS, and THEN Franklin tried to move and blame the defender

the refs rightly saw right through it.

lonestar
10-16-2012, 08:00 PM
I saw a segment that had Manning talking into a refs ears for a good 30-40 seconds while he was on the sideline..

Would love to know what he was saying to him..

Almost thought he would get flagged.. That was a very long conversation.. Would love to know if a lip reader could have gotten anything off it..

RhymesayersDU
10-16-2012, 08:07 PM
I saw a segment that had Manning talking into a refs ears for a good 30-40 seconds while he was on the sideline..

Would love to know what he was saying to him..

Almost thought he would get flagged.. That was a very long conversation.. Would love to know if a lip reader could have gotten anything off it..

You're over thinking this, he was just selling him a Buick.

maher_tyler
10-16-2012, 08:43 PM
Yes, this is why on 3rd and 8 99.9% of teams will make a pass there and not run. It's almost always never successful. Horrible play call. You got #18 back there, throw the F'n ball.

I honestly thought he audibled into that play. With all the stuff he usually does, who knows for sure if he didn't go the safe route and audible into that play...

Pony Boy
10-16-2012, 08:56 PM
If the replacement refs had made those calls it would the number one story on Sports Center.

broncocalijohn
10-16-2012, 09:21 PM
Bottom line,

Real refs > replacement refs.

We know. It is like this example:

DJ Williams > Joe Mays

We aren't happy with it but it is fact. Doesnt mean the "greater then" means he/they are great.


BTW, I read the official game thread from the Chargers site and boy they thought we paid off the refs. Funny how you see things with homer glasses on.

gyldenlove
10-17-2012, 01:14 PM
The rule used to be that you had to give a 2 yard cushion if it is a fair catch....is that no longer the case?

I don't believe so, especially if the blocker is initiating contact which he did.

gyldenlove
10-17-2012, 01:28 PM
Yes he did. Their knees touched at he moved up to catch the ball. Meaning the defender impeded Holi from catching the ball. That's interference with the fair catch. So you're wrong.

I would argue that not only does Jim Leonhard throw a block that means the Charger gunner can't stop in time but also Holiday is too far back and the muff is not caused by the incidental contact. It is a judgement call, but I can't imagine a lot of refs would throw the rag in that situation.

If Holiday moves up one more step so he gets in range to make the catch then I think the call might be appropriate as he does have right of way and would be blocked by the Charger, but as it stands I think the refs were right in judging that the muff was caused by him being too far back to secure the ball.

gyldenlove
10-17-2012, 01:30 PM
Franklin was being cute...he didn't instinctively react to a defensive player, which is what the rule is intended to address, rather he saw the defender encroach, then get back behind the LOS, and THEN Franklin tried to move and blame the defender

the refs rightly saw right through it.

This is something offensive linemen are being coached to do now, when you see someone jump into the neutral zone you go as well to get the 5 yards. In that situation Franklin was clearly too slow and got called for the transparent attempt at getting a neutral zone infraction call.

enjolras
10-17-2012, 01:31 PM
Franklin was being cute...he didn't instinctively react to a defensive player, which is what the rule is intended to address, rather he saw the defender encroach, then get back behind the LOS, and THEN Franklin tried to move and blame the defender

the refs rightly saw right through it.

Defender was still in the neutral zone when Franklin moved (I've watched this at least 10 times). I suppose you could argue the defender never fully moved into the neutral zone, but it sure looked like it to me.

Hell the guy was apologizing to the sidelines before they made the call.

USMCBladerunner
10-17-2012, 07:26 PM
Defender was still in the neutral zone when Franklin moved (I've watched this at least 10 times). I suppose you could argue the defender never fully moved into the neutral zone, but it sure looked like it to me.

Hell the guy was apologizing to the sidelines before they made the call.

I haven't rewatched the game, so i believe you that he was in the neutral zone, but he was moving backwards by my recollection, when Franklin sat up and pointed...it looked pretty obvious to me that Franklin had waited far too long to move and still have a legitimate claim that he was "reacting"

But, if you are right that defender was in the neutral zone, but moving backwards, with no player contact, and a OL moves before the snap ( but not as an immediate reaction to defend himself), then according to my reading of the rules (pasted below) there are two offsetting penalties, both a neutral zone infraction and a false start. This, of course, is nothing I've ever seen before.

(b) a defender enters the neutral zone prior to the snap, causing the offensive player(s) in close proximity (including a
quarterback who is under center) to react (move) immediately to protect himself (themselves) against impending
contact; officials are to blow their whistles immediately. If there is no immediate reaction by the offensive player(s) in
close proximity, and the defensive player returns to a legal position prior to the snap without contacting an opponent,
there is no foul

baja
10-17-2012, 09:05 PM
I would argue that not only does Jim Leonhard throw a block that means the Charger gunner can't stop in time but also Holiday is too far back and the muff is not caused by the incidental contact. It is a judgement call, but I can't imagine a lot of refs would throw the rag in that situation.

If Holiday moves up one more step so he gets in range to make the catch then I think the call might be appropriate as he does have right of way and would be blocked by the Charger, but as it stands I think the refs were right in judging that the muff was caused by him being too far back to secure the ball.

Fox said on Sirius radio that it was not entirely Holiday's fault and that a Denver player blocked the SD player into him. Fox also said Holiday would certainly get another chance.

Stagger Lee
10-18-2012, 05:24 AM
google Jeff Triplet...seriously, **** that guy

This X 1000. I hate seeing him at Broncos games. He is horrendous.