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ZONA
10-15-2012, 10:37 PM
First off, this is not a negative thread. I was thrilled about the comeback win as much as the next guy.

Simple observation though, this sloppy 1st half play trend still continues. Big halftime deficits, a blunder of all sorts of mistakes (penalties, turnovers, not falling on live balls, tripping over own feet to negate a sure TD, you name it).

As we saw tonight, against teams like the Chargers and Raiders, you have a chance to actually still win the game with a great 2nd half performance. But keep this up, and as we saw in some previous games, you WON'T beat the good teams with this many mistakes.

Honestly I don't know if you blame these players or the coaches. How is it that a very well coached team can avoid these mental blunders, at least on a much more consistent basis. They have rookies, retreads, etc as well. So how is it that this many mistakes continue to find their way to the field for us. I was never really big on blaming coaching for mental mistakes like turnovers and penalties but with this many, I am starting to lean a little to believing coaching has more to do with this then I had thought.

Doggcow
10-15-2012, 10:38 PM
Eh... I don't think our Returners will ****up that bad ever again.

maven
10-15-2012, 10:39 PM
There's no point to this thread. It sucks!

SonOfLe-loLang
10-15-2012, 10:40 PM
Theres no "lesson" to really be learned. Fumbles are unfortunate and (maybe) careless, not the result of mental errors. Either is tripping over your own feet on the way to the endzone.

ZONA
10-15-2012, 10:52 PM
There's no point to this thread. It sucks!

You must be a retard. Read again. Maybe a 3rd or 4th time for somebody like you, before you discover the meaning.


SonOfLe-loLang: I don't agree. While not all turnovers are mental mistakes, some are. And it wasn't just the turnovers. As I said, the types of penalties (unnecessary roughness, false starts, etc - these are all drive killers). How about that kick off where we didn't even field it. It's not a punt, you HAVE to field a kick off, we got lucky there. Those ARE things that are "learned" as you say. How about recovering the loose ball. Kudos for Carter for his scoop but as you saw Leonard try it, he cost the team a turnover by not securing the ball.

maven
10-15-2012, 10:56 PM
You must be a retard. Read again. Maybe a 3rd or 4th time for somebody like you, before you discover the meaning.


SonOfLe-loLang: I don't agree. While not all turnovers are mental mistakes, some are. And it wasn't just the turnovers. As I said, the types of penalties (unnecessary roughness, false starts, etc - these are all drive killers). How about that kick off where we didn't even field it. It's not a punt, you HAVE to field a kick off, we got lucky there. Those ARE things that are "learned" as you say. How about recovering the loose ball. Kudos for Carter for his scoop but as you saw Leonard try it, he cost the team a turnover by not securing the ball.

Your thread ****ing sucks you ****ing retard. For such a great night you want to rain on the ****ing parade. Eat ****.

ZONA
10-15-2012, 11:00 PM
Your thread ****ing sucks you ****ing retard. For such a great night you want to rain on the ****ing parade. Eat ****.

Oh shut up you stupid homer. Nobody's raining on any parade. Clearly you missed the very first line in my post. As I said, maybe you need to read again, this time try like 7 times.....and focus on the 1st line. Here, I'll help you, it looks a little something like this

"First off, this is not a negative thread. I was thrilled about the comeback win as much as the next guy."

maven
10-15-2012, 11:02 PM
Oh shut up you stupid homer. Nobody's raining on any parade. Clearly you missed the very first line in my post. As I said, maybe you need to read again, this time try like 7 times.....and focus on the 1st line. Here, I'll help you, it looks a little something like this

"First off, this is not a negative thread. I was thrilled about the comeback win as much as the next guy."

Look at your thread title asshole. Enjoy the ****ing comeback win. We have two weeks to discuss.

ZONA
10-15-2012, 11:12 PM
Look at your thread title a-hole. Enjoy the ****ing comeback win. We have two weeks to discuss.

Ok, so next time don't just read the thread title. Try reading the post as well. And don't be such a homer. Obviously I loved that we won, I clearly said it very first thing. What, you don't think it's alarming on how many mistakes we are making and you don't think it's a relevant topic? Sure we're all stoked about the win dude. But put the pom pom's down for a second and give somebody some slack will ya.

spiralism
10-15-2012, 11:13 PM
Great time for the bye now then i guess. Sort out ball security, we've got two weeks to do it. Then come back in and wipe the floor with the remaining schedule.

On the flipside, if we're this good while making a veritable ****ton of mistakes, imagine how good we'll be when they dry up. This team has zero complete performances in 6 weeks and is 3-3. If we got our **** together we could be the best team in the AFC, legit.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
10-15-2012, 11:40 PM
Meh.

Nobody was happy with the first half.

Everyone was happy with the second.

Enjoy your drunken stupers (I KNOW I AM! WOOO WHISKEY YAHOO #DRUNJ) and realize there's plenty of blame and kudos to go around.

OP was merely trying to get a leg up on the "don't say I didn't tell you" populace. Whoopedy doo.

#drunj

Jetmeck
10-16-2012, 12:29 AM
Oh shut up you stupid homer. Nobody's raining on any parade. Clearly you missed the very first line in my post. As I said, maybe you need to read again, this time try like 7 times.....and focus on the 1st line. Here, I'll help you, it looks a little something like this

"First off, this is not a negative thread. I was thrilled about the comeback win as much as the next guy."



Agree with your first comments.....but hold on the ass clowns accusing you of not being a real fan are about to jump all over you.

BUT YOU ARE CORRECT.

Drek
10-16-2012, 02:24 AM
Eh... I don't think our Returners will ****up that bad ever again.

Its always something with this team though.

The reality here is that this team has a handful of very good players and then a handful of guys who aren't even starter quality. The talent disparity is huge on this club.

Our LBs outside of Miller are one dimensional run stoppers who aren't even particularly good at stopping the run.

Our DL is a one dimensional pass rusher (Doom), a solid starter type who's a rookie (Wolfe), and then guys who are only good at stuffing the run and get no real pass rush.

Our CBs are good, but our safeties are inconsistent and can't man up on hardly anyone.

Our OL runs hot and cold which really means that they just can't handle elite pass rushers as those are the guys who always seem to make our OL look bad.

Our TEs are a mixed back. Dreessen is well rounded but unspectacular. Tamme is basically a big, slow WR. He can't block at all.

Our WRs only go three deep with Thomas, Decker, and Stokley. This is an offense that needs 4 deep WRs. Not studs but guys who can do their jobs. Matt Willis showed us why he doesn't belong on this team last night. In a simpler offense his limited reps could be enough, but in this offense he's never going to catch up mentally.

Our RBs really are McGahee and a bunch of JAGs, and McGahee is solid but not explosive. Hillman has potential to be something but he's not there yet.

Then we get to the rest of our depth which is just outright non-existent.

This is the result of putting all our eggs in the Peyton Manning basket over the off-season. Even though we won the bidding we left ourselves exposed at MLB, RB, etc.. Picture how different this team would be if we had outbid the Ravens for Jameel McClain and also signed Mike Tolbert to give us another proven ball carrier. That's just two easy moves that were well within our grasp, not even something like giving real money to Paul Soliai.

Bacchus
10-16-2012, 02:35 AM
First off, this is not a negative thread. I was thrilled about the comeback win as much as the next guy.

Simple observation though, this sloppy 1st half play trend still continues. Big halftime deficits, a blunder of all sorts of mistakes (penalties, turnovers, not falling on live balls, tripping over own feet to negate a sure TD, you name it).

As we saw tonight, against teams like the Chargers and Raiders, you have a chance to actually still win the game with a great 2nd half performance. But keep this up, and as we saw in some previous games, you WON'T beat the good teams with this many mistakes.

Honestly I don't know if you blame these players or the coaches. How is it that a very well coached team can avoid these mental blunders, at least on a much more consistent basis. They have rookies, retreads, etc as well. So how is it that this many mistakes continue to find their way to the field for us. I was never really big on blaming coaching for mental mistakes like turnovers and penalties but with this many, I am starting to lean a little to believing coaching has more to do with this then I had thought.

I agree, but this is a momentum game. Denver will build from this because they won. Now they have a bye week to work on scoring in the first half. I have always been a 5/8 cup person myself. I see great things ahead.

fontaine
10-16-2012, 03:57 AM
Its always something with this team though.

The reality here is that this team has a handful of very good players and then a handful of guys who aren't even starter quality. The talent disparity is huge on this club.

Our LBs outside of Miller are one dimensional run stoppers who aren't even particularly good at stopping the run.


Yes, I agree. Woodyard has had a couple of good games but he's still very much hit and miss, and Mays just takes very bad angles even in run support. At this point he's not even a two down thumper. DJ will have to come back in and start at MLB.

Our DL is a one dimensional pass rusher (Doom), a solid starter type who's a rookie (Wolfe), and then guys who are only good at stuffing the run and get no real pass rush.

Well, I think Vickerson is better than people think at collapsing the interior but yes he's not a complete player and really only has a bull rush move.


Our OL runs hot and cold which really means that they just can't handle elite pass rushers as those are the guys who always seem to make our OL look bad.

I disagree. We haven't really had a true measure of the interior since Walton/Kuper have been injured. The Tackles have done a great job in pass protection.


Our WRs only go three deep with Thomas, Decker, and Stokley. This is an offense that needs 4 deep WRs. Not studs but guys who can do their jobs. Matt Willis showed us why he doesn't belong on this team last night. In a simpler offense his limited reps could be enough, but in this offense he's never going to catch up mentally.

That's why I want Danny Amendola who's going to be a FA this offseason to run in this offense. He lines up all over the field, is tremendously difficult to cover in shorter routes and has breakaway speed.

Our RBs really are McGahee and a bunch of JAGs, and McGahee is solid but not explosive. Hillman has potential to be something but he's not there yet.

Then we get to the rest of our depth which is just outright non-existent.

This is the result of putting all our eggs in the Peyton Manning basket over the off-season. Even though we won the bidding we left ourselves exposed at MLB, RB, etc.. Picture how different this team would be if we had outbid the Ravens for Jameel McClain and also signed Mike Tolbert to give us another proven ball carrier. That's just two easy moves that were well within our grasp, not even something like giving real money to Paul Soliai.

This is where we disagree. Talent is all important, but what get's constantly underestimated is consistency of coaching staff and defensive/offensives schemes.

McClain is a better LBer than Mays, Tolbert is better than Moreno/Ball, but they aren't good enough individually to account for wins.

fontaine
10-16-2012, 04:06 AM
Obviously I loved that we won, I clearly said it very first thing. What, you don't think it's alarming on how many mistakes we are making and you don't think it's a relevant topic? Sure we're all stoked about the win dude. But put the pom pom's down for a second and give somebody some slack will ya.

You are absolutely 100% correct.

There are no more elite teams. Every team has flaws and what is becoming the norm more and more often is that good/great teams don't necessarily dominate others but make less mistakes and the other teams usually beat themselves by making more mistakes.

Take every game we've lost this season and we didn't get mauled, manhandled or blown off the ball. We even managed to come back and keep it close in the end but the underlying difference was that we made one/two mistakes too many.

This is the bottom line in the nfl nowadays. Great QBs give you a chance, but it's the teams that collectively make the least amount of mistakes that capitalize on that chance.

Agamemnon
10-16-2012, 07:22 AM
Its always something with this team though.

The reality here is that this team has a handful of very good players and then a handful of guys who aren't even starter quality. The talent disparity is huge on this club.

Our LBs outside of Miller are one dimensional run stoppers who aren't even particularly good at stopping the run.

Our DL is a one dimensional pass rusher (Doom), a solid starter type who's a rookie (Wolfe), and then guys who are only good at stuffing the run and get no real pass rush.

Our CBs are good, but our safeties are inconsistent and can't man up on hardly anyone.

Our OL runs hot and cold which really means that they just can't handle elite pass rushers as those are the guys who always seem to make our OL look bad.

Our TEs are a mixed back. Dreessen is well rounded but unspectacular. Tamme is basically a big, slow WR. He can't block at all.

Our WRs only go three deep with Thomas, Decker, and Stokley. This is an offense that needs 4 deep WRs. Not studs but guys who can do their jobs. Matt Willis showed us why he doesn't belong on this team last night. In a simpler offense his limited reps could be enough, but in this offense he's never going to catch up mentally.

Our RBs really are McGahee and a bunch of JAGs, and McGahee is solid but not explosive. Hillman has potential to be something but he's not there yet.

Then we get to the rest of our depth which is just outright non-existent.

This is the result of putting all our eggs in the Peyton Manning basket over the off-season. Even though we won the bidding we left ourselves exposed at MLB, RB, etc.. Picture how different this team would be if we had outbid the Ravens for Jameel McClain and also signed Mike Tolbert to give us another proven ball carrier. That's just two easy moves that were well within our grasp, not even something like giving real money to Paul Soliai.

The problem with this "analysis" is that we haven't been getting beat because we don't have enough talent. We've been getting beat because of stupid mistakes and turnovers.

Drek
10-16-2012, 07:55 AM
The problem with this "analysis" is that we haven't been getting beat because we don't have enough talent. We've been getting beat because of stupid mistakes and turnovers.

The stupid mistakes are the result of mediocre to bad players. Matt Willis running the wrong route and causing a pick six is because Willis isn't good enough at reads and route running to play in this offense. Our LBs can't cover because they just aren't smart enough to make the right reads. I could go on. My point is that a lot of these turnovers and mistakes are being done by veteran players. Those guys aren't going to stop making stupid mistakes any more than DJ is going to stop driving drunk. They need to be replaced, andrew not replacing several of them this offs eason has already cost this team wins.

Talent is more than just physical ability. Our team lacks high football IQ players, and that is an important talent gap we need to bridge. Hence why 37 year old Kieth Brooking is now a key part of our D.

Mountain Bronco
10-16-2012, 08:04 AM
Of course there were mental errors, when you don't catch the ball on a punt return mental error, but hell the freaking happen and they have happened a lot to this team but we are 3-3 and have the lead in the AFC west (Yes I consider it a lead as we as of now own the tie breaker with SD) and the easiest part of our schedule is to come.

This thread sucks.

TheReverend
10-16-2012, 08:05 AM
The Chargers ARE a good team.

Let's not go lumping them in with the Raiders.

Crushaholic
10-16-2012, 08:11 AM
The Chargers ARE a good team.

Let's not go lumping them in with the Raiders.

THIS...

The Chargers will win several more games, and make us sweat out the AFC West...again....

Drunken.Broncoholic
10-16-2012, 08:14 AM
The Chargers ARE a good team.

Let's not go lumping them in with the Raiders.

Exactly. Even with their injuries. I think they've gotten worse at WR but still THE threat in the west. Gruden said it best that he thinks the west will come down to the wire

ScottXray
10-16-2012, 08:15 AM
As far as this game, the officiating was dreadful.

1st fumble ( punt return), there was clear interference with the catch ( Rule is there must be a 2 yard buffer zone around a player when a fair catch is called for. SD had a player within 1 yard on the catch, but no flag was dropped.

2nd fumble...short kickoff should have been covered better , then Bolden did screw up and drop the ball when hit after picking it up. However, he clearly fell on the ball and was on top of it with NO SD players on the ground. He was touched down THEN 2 SD players jumped on top of him and wrestled it away in the pile. The whistle should have blown before then. Almost like the replacement ref game in Atlanta the Refs allowed the ball to be stolen in the pile.

The false starts on Rivers in the first half were really pretty bad also and we were given gifts there. But it was made up for by the bogus PI on Decker in the 4th that took away a chance for PM to finish the win on offense. Like the refs were determined to give Rivers another chance to get back in the game, because it makes for "good tv". The non holding calls that Doom has to put up with continuously are also pretty disgusting.

At any rate a lot of our "mistakes" were exacerbated by an inconsistent and poor job by the officials. If we did not have PM in our backfield a lot more calls would be going against us, because the officials seem to favor the league "favorites" in WAY too many instances ( see Brady, Tom) .

orangemonkey
10-16-2012, 08:21 AM
Its always something with this team though.

The reality here is that this team has a handful of very good players and then a handful of guys who aren't even starter quality. The talent disparity is huge on this club.

Our LBs outside of Miller are one dimensional run stoppers who aren't even particularly good at stopping the run.

Our DL is a one dimensional pass rusher (Doom), a solid starter type who's a rookie (Wolfe), and then guys who are only good at stuffing the run and get no real pass rush.

Our CBs are good, but our safeties are inconsistent and can't man up on hardly anyone.

Our OL runs hot and cold which really means that they just can't handle elite pass rushers as those are the guys who always seem to make our OL look bad.

Our TEs are a mixed back. Dreessen is well rounded but unspectacular. Tamme is basically a big, slow WR. He can't block at all.

Our WRs only go three deep with Thomas, Decker, and Stokley. This is an offense that needs 4 deep WRs. Not studs but guys who can do their jobs. Matt Willis showed us why he doesn't belong on this team last night. In a simpler offense his limited reps could be enough, but in this offense he's never going to catch up mentally.

Our RBs really are McGahee and a bunch of JAGs, and McGahee is solid but not explosive. Hillman has potential to be something but he's not there yet.

Then we get to the rest of our depth which is just outright non-existent.

This is the result of putting all our eggs in the Peyton Manning basket over the off-season. Even though we won the bidding we left ourselves exposed at MLB, RB, etc.. Picture how different this team would be if we had outbid the Ravens for Jameel McClain and also signed Mike Tolbert to give us another proven ball carrier. That's just two easy moves that were well within our grasp, not even something like giving real money to Paul Soliai.

Ok...so in your great plan of picking up McClain/Tolbert (and not entering the Manning sweepstakes), who is playing quarterback for the Denver Broncos?

Agamemnon
10-16-2012, 08:22 AM
The stupid mistakes are the result of mediocre to bad players. Matt Willis running the wrong route and causing a pick six is because Willis isn't good enough at reads and route running to play in this offense. Our LBs can't cover because they just aren't smart enough to make the right reads. I could go on. My point is that a lot of these turnovers and mistakes are being done by veteran players. Those guys aren't going to stop making stupid mistakes any more than DJ is going to stop driving drunk. They need to be replaced, andrew not replacing several of them this offs eason has already cost this team wins.

Talent is more than just physical ability. Our team lacks high football IQ players, and that is an important talent gap we need to bridge. Hence why 37 year old Kieth Brooking is now a key part of our D.

The three interceptions against the Falcons is because our players aren't good enough? The fumbles McGahee has had are because he isn't good enough? DT's fumbles? You do realize he's our most physically gifted receiver right? Come on now. Our turnover differential issues have very little to do with a lack of talent. Your "analysis" is a joke.

OOJack
10-16-2012, 08:31 AM
Its always something with this team though.

The reality here is that this team has a handful of very good players and then a handful of guys who aren't even starter quality. The talent disparity is huge on this club.

Our LBs outside of Miller are one dimensional run stoppers who aren't even particularly good at stopping the run.

Our DL is a one dimensional pass rusher (Doom), a solid starter type who's a rookie (Wolfe), and then guys who are only good at stuffing the run and get no real pass rush.

Our CBs are good, but our safeties are inconsistent and can't man up on hardly anyone.

Our OL runs hot and cold which really means that they just can't handle elite pass rushers as those are the guys who always seem to make our OL look bad.

Our TEs are a mixed back. Dreessen is well rounded but unspectacular. Tamme is basically a big, slow WR. He can't block at all.

Our WRs only go three deep with Thomas, Decker, and Stokley. This is an offense that needs 4 deep WRs. Not studs but guys who can do their jobs. Matt Willis showed us why he doesn't belong on this team last night. In a simpler offense his limited reps could be enough, but in this offense he's never going to catch up mentally.

Our RBs really are McGahee and a bunch of JAGs, and McGahee is solid but not explosive. Hillman has potential to be something but he's not there yet.

Then we get to the rest of our depth which is just outright non-existent.

This is the result of putting all our eggs in the Peyton Manning basket over the off-season. Even though we won the bidding we left ourselves exposed at MLB, RB, etc.. Picture how different this team would be if we had outbid the Ravens for Jameel McClain and also signed Mike Tolbert to give us another proven ball carrier. That's just two easy moves that were well within our grasp, not even something like giving real money to Paul Soliai.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

ZONA
10-16-2012, 12:53 PM
As far as this game, the officiating was dreadful.

1st fumble ( punt return), there was clear interference with the catch ( Rule is there must be a 2 yard buffer zone around a player when a fair catch is called for. SD had a player within 1 yard on the catch, but no flag was dropped.

2nd fumble...short kickoff should have been covered better , then Bolden did screw up and drop the ball when hit after picking it up. However, he clearly fell on the ball and was on top of it with NO SD players on the ground. He was touched down THEN 2 SD players jumped on top of him and wrestled it away in the pile. The whistle should have blown before then. Almost like the replacement ref game in Atlanta the Refs allowed the ball to be stolen in the pile.

The false starts on Rivers in the first half were really pretty bad also and we were given gifts there. But it was made up for by the bogus PI on Decker in the 4th that took away a chance for PM to finish the win on offense. Like the refs were determined to give Rivers another chance to get back in the game, because it makes for "good tv". The non holding calls that Doom has to put up with continuously are also pretty disgusting.

At any rate a lot of our "mistakes" were exacerbated by an inconsistent and poor job by the officials. If we did not have PM in our backfield a lot more calls would be going against us, because the officials seem to favor the league "favorites" in WAY too many instances ( see Brady, Tom) .


I have a few feelings on some of those turnovers. I agree, there should have been interference with the catch on that punt. But, as the player trying to make the catch, you position yourself the best you can for the catch and not to accommodate space to avoid contact. In fact, if he had just stayed where he was instead of kind of sliding to the side a bit to avoid the the contact, there would have been contact and a flag thrown. I'm sure the coaches will go over that with him. Also, and I did mention this before also, Boldin did recover his own fumble and it was a joke call but I understand the refs could make that mistake. The biggest blunder was Fox not throwing a challenge flag on that. If there EVER is a time to challenge, it would be that play. If you win, you don't give the chargers the ball in automatic scoring range. If you lose, oh well you lose the timeout. Totally worth the chance. I see no logic as to why Fox did not challenge on that play.

Bacchus
10-16-2012, 12:59 PM
The stupid mistakes are the result of mediocre to bad players. Matt Willis running the wrong route and causing a pick six is because Willis isn't good enough at reads and route running to play in this offense. Our LBs can't cover because they just aren't smart enough to make the right reads. I could go on. My point is that a lot of these turnovers and mistakes are being done by veteran players. Those guys aren't going to stop making stupid mistakes any more than DJ is going to stop driving drunk. They need to be replaced, andrew not replacing several of them this offs eason has already cost this team wins.

Talent is more than just physical ability. Our team lacks high football IQ players, and that is an important talent gap we need to bridge. Hence why 37 year old Kieth Brooking is now a key part of our D.


You are wrong. Matt Willis running hte wrong route has to do with him being a young inexperienced WR and a complicated audiblre system that I bet he has never experienced before. This sort of this was happening in Indianapolis all the time. Peyton KNOWS EVERYTHING! His WRs will not be as fluent in the offense and mistakes will be made.

As far as the Lbers are concerned it is a weakness. Unlike you I hope DJ comes back and turns his life around and I think Travanthon(sp) should get more snaps. Not the end of the world dude. Every team in the NFL has weaknessses.

Drek
10-16-2012, 03:08 PM
Ok...so in your great plan of picking up McClain/Tolbert (and not entering the Manning sweepstakes), who is playing quarterback for the Denver Broncos?

I'm saying that the FO needs to be able to walk and chew gum at the same damn time.

We didn't need every single member of the FO sucking Manning's dick 24/7. Supposedly a big part of Elway's appeal was that he was very laid back with Manning. So when everyone else was hounding him and Elway was playing it cool what was he doing? Getting in a full 18 on the course?

The three interceptions against the Falcons is because our players aren't good enough? The fumbles McGahee has had are because he isn't good enough? DT's fumbles? You do realize he's our most physically gifted receiver right? Come on now. Our turnover differential issues have very little to do with a lack of talent. Your "analysis" is a joke.
Mistakes by Thomas and McGahee I can live with because those are mistakes made in an attempt to make a play.

Not being able to field a punt, fill your gap, or recognize your route let alone run it, are not excusable.

Fumbles and picks aren't the problem. Guys not having enough working grey matter to play their position is the problem, and this roster is full of 'em.

We've got a collection of guys who are legit pieces of a Super Bowl team surrounded by guys who shouldn't make it past special teams, if that.

Name a unit where we aren't one injury away from starting someone with serious deficiencies, please. CB is the only one at this point that I can think of. Meanwhile at LB we're starting two of them every game. At safety we're rolling the dice on what we'll get from the hot and cold mix we've got there. On the OL we've burnt up all the good depth we had by losing Walton and having to turn to Koppen. At WR we're one injury away from Willis being a key target. At TE we're an injury away from not being able to field a competent in line blocker. At RB we're an injury away from 3rd and 1's being a passing down. Etc. etc..

You are wrong. Matt Willis running hte wrong route has to do with him being a young inexperienced WR and a complicated audiblre system that I bet he has never experienced before. This sort of this was happening in Indianapolis all the time. Peyton KNOWS EVERYTHING! His WRs will not be as fluent in the offense and mistakes will be made.
Matt Willis is 28 years old and has been in the NFL since 2007. He is not young or inexperienced.

What's worse, that was a blatant adjustment for him to make. If Manning thought it was a questionable read he sure as hell wouldn't have had the ball there waiting on the right one and Willis wouldn't have gone back to the sideline where he got tongue lashed by coaches and immediately went to apologize to Peyton.

As far as the Lbers are concerned it is a weakness. Unlike you I hope DJ comes back and turns his life around and I think Travanthon(sp) should get more snaps. Not the end of the world dude. Every team in the NFL has weaknessses.
Its far from our only one.

Look, I'm not saying the Broncos are just outright ****ed as a team this year. I still think the division is ours to win and once we're in we have the playmakers to be a threat. But this off-season the FO needs to do some real self-evaluation on how badly they failed to fill out a full 53 man roster of worthwhile players.

Someone like Trevathan should be excellent depth that only our coaches really know about, not someone who sees serious time as a 6th round rookie. Instead we seriously entered camp with a 6th round rookie lined up for a second string job, and even then looking like our best nickel LB outside of a drunk already facing a lengthy suspension.

fontaine
10-16-2012, 03:32 PM
The stupid mistakes are the result of mediocre to bad players. Matt Willis running the wrong route and causing a pick six is because Willis isn't good enough at reads and route running to play in this offense. Our LBs can't cover because they just aren't smart enough to make the right reads. I could go on. My point is that a lot of these turnovers and mistakes are being done by veteran players. Those guys aren't going to stop making stupid mistakes any more than DJ is going to stop driving drunk. They need to be replaced, andrew not replacing several of them this offs eason has already cost this team wins.

Talent is more than just physical ability. Our team lacks high football IQ players, and that is an important talent gap we need to bridge. Hence why 37 year old Kieth Brooking is now a key part of our D.

Uhhh, ,this makes no sense.

On one hand you're criticizing the FO for not bringing in "talented" (ie the players YOU keep talking about) players but then cite Brooking as a key example of a high IQ player.

WHO do you think brought in Brooking (Koppen as well)? The magic tooth fairy??

You keep going on and on and on and on and on about McClain as as MLB we should have brought in.

Yeah, the Ravens D right now looks awesome against the run right? You think bringing in Tolbert would have been that much of an improvement?

Like it or not, the front office made one of the best, most savy moves in bringing in Koppen at Center and he's already paying FAR more dividends than McClain and/or Tolbert.

Tony Carter just won us the game defensively.

How many games have McClain or Tolbert won for their teams?
Apparently the FO can chew gum and walk at the same time.

fontaine
10-16-2012, 03:43 PM
Fumbles and picks aren't the problem. Guys not having enough working grey matter to play their position is the problem, and this roster is full of 'em.



This is so completely and utterly wrong.

Our entire offense, plus backups like Koppen, Ramirez, Hillman just underwent one of the most drastic changes in offensive terminology, schemes, checkdowns, plays and general strategy.

This offense went from a convential one with Orton, to a run first, heavy option based offense with Tebow, to a full blown Manning mind job in less than two full seasons (WITH a brand new coaching staff) and you're b*tching about a WR buried in the depth chart who made the wrong adjustment on a blitz . . . .


Seriously?

Where was this high IQ bar of your when:

-Robert Freakin' Quinn couldn't even line up properly,
-Moreno/Maroney was busy dancing in the backfield and couldn't read a hole to save their collective lives,
-Walton/Beadles couldnt' read a stunt/twist correctly and adjust
-Tim Tebow could barely read a defense?
-Alphonse Smith was traded away for peanuts?

jerseyboiler120
10-16-2012, 03:48 PM
As far as this game, the officiating was dreadful.

1st fumble ( punt return), there was clear interference with the catch ( Rule is there must be a 2 yard buffer zone around a player when a fair catch is called for. SD had a player within 1 yard on the catch, but no flag was dropped.

2nd fumble...short kickoff should have been covered better , then Bolden did screw up and drop the ball when hit after picking it up. However, he clearly fell on the ball and was on top of it with NO SD players on the ground. He was touched down THEN 2 SD players jumped on top of him and wrestled it away in the pile. The whistle should have blown before then. Almost like the replacement ref game in Atlanta the Refs allowed the ball to be stolen in the pile.

The false starts on Rivers in the first half were really pretty bad also and we were given gifts there. But it was made up for by the bogus PI on Decker in the 4th that took away a chance for PM to finish the win on offense. Like the refs were determined to give Rivers another chance to get back in the game, because it makes for "good tv". The non holding calls that Doom has to put up with continuously are also pretty disgusting.

At any rate a lot of our "mistakes" were exacerbated by an inconsistent and poor job by the officials. If we did not have PM in our backfield a lot more calls would be going against us, because the officials seem to favor the league "favorites" in WAY too many instances ( see Brady, Tom) .


Yes the refs allowing about an hour scrum after each of those fumbles was very annoying, especially when the sandigaygo return man fumbled and the refs ruled possession in about a millisecond before allowing the pile to take over. I'm still scratching my head over the disregard for the fair catch interference rule. Did that one get tossed out in the new ref contract agreements?

Drek
10-16-2012, 04:06 PM
Uhhh, ,this makes no sense.

On one hand you're criticizing the FO for not bringing in "talented" (ie the players YOU keep talking about) players but then cite Brooking as a key example of a high IQ player.
Brooking has a high football IQ but is physically done. My example was showing how important that aspect of a player is. When 37 year old Kieth Brooking can cause a noticeable improvement over the bigger, stronger, faster Joe Mays you can just imagine what kind of difference a REAL starting level MLB could have made for this D. Imagine if we were the team trading a 4th for Demeco Ryans this past off-season.

WHO do you think brought in Brooking (Koppen as well)? The magic tooth fairy??
Again, Brooking was nothing special as a signing. Koppen was worthwhile, but what have they done to shore up OG or OT?

You keep going on and on and on and on and on about McClain as as MLB we should have brought in.

Yeah, the Ravens D right now looks awesome against the run right? You think bringing in Tolbert would have been that much of an improvement?
Those players are just examples of who they could have brought in. I'm not a pro football scout. The fact is, guys who get paid to do just that seriously thought we were ok rolling with Joe Mays as a starting MLB.

Like it or not, the front office made one of the best, most savy moves in bringing in Koppen at Center and he's already paying FAR more dividends than McClain and/or Tolbert.
Sure, they made a really good move brining Koppen in. Where was a similar move for MLB, a position that everyone knew desperately needed it?

Tony Carter just won us the game defensively.
Who signed Tony Carter to the Broncos? Here's a hint: he doesn't work here anymore.

nyuk nyuk
10-16-2012, 04:23 PM
Yes, they still suck but NOT SO BAD!

Mediator12
10-16-2012, 07:46 PM
If we had not changed all our schemes again for the umpteenth year in a row, started a kid at PR we just got off the street, and were playing crap teams then I would be a little more concerned. As it is, this is a completely different team than last year, playing completely different schemes and totally different philosophies at every position. The team got a solid overhaul and has struggled against some quality teams early. However, they are figuring it out each game. And, they are not making the same mistakes.

The one thing I see every week is that there are not as many tiers of teams as in the past. There are only a couple of pushover teams (fortunately KC and OAK are there) and the NFCW is a hell of a lot better than the AFCW. The level of teams is much better this year and the parity is incredible. That DEN had to play as many very good teams to start the year was disappointing. The great thing is that DEN is .500, healthy, leading the division, and getting better every week.

The next phase of the season starts after week 8. Teams have enough film to start to pick apart your weaknesses and you have to play more to your mismatches to win games. If DEN struggles with the same slow starts after week 8 I will get concerned. For now, I just love watching them with all their flaws.

lonestar
10-16-2012, 08:05 PM
I agree, but this is a momentum game. Denver will build from this because they won. Now they have a bye week to work on scoring in the first half. I have always been a 5/8 cup person myself. I see great things ahead.

you may forever live to regret that comment..

Personally I'm a D cup kind of guy..

lonestar
10-16-2012, 08:11 PM
Brooking has a high football IQ but is physically done. My example was showing how important that aspect of a player is. When 37 year old Kieth Brooking can cause a noticeable improvement over the bigger, stronger, faster Joe Mays you can just imagine what kind of difference a REAL starting level MLB could have made for this D. Imagine if we were the team trading a 4th for Demeco Ryans this past off-season.


Again, Brooking was nothing special as a signing. Koppen was worthwhile, but what have they done to shore up OG or OT?


Those players are just examples of who they could have brought in. I'm not a pro football scout. The fact is, guys who get paid to do just that seriously thought we were ok rolling with Joe Mays as a starting MLB.


Sure, they made a really good move brining Koppen in. Where was a similar move for MLB, a position that everyone knew desperately needed it?


Who signed Tony Carter to the Broncos? Here's a hint: he doesn't work here anymore.


I have issues with that comment..

one is JDR knows LB's and DL while Mays was signed by John, I suspect that JDR had lots of comment about that.. If he did not think he could fix him I do not think they would have spent the money on him..

#2 money and roster spots are finite..

I suspect they saw a lot more issues /holes to fill than MLB.. which IMO they did again IMO..

I also think ever thought they knew Dumb Ass was going to miss some games they really did not know how many until after basic decisions were made.. Losing Warren in game one hurt the MLB spot more than any other..

HAd they known that perhaps a higher priority would have been placed on it..

fontaine
10-17-2012, 04:56 AM
Brooking has a high football IQ but is physically done. My example was showing how important that aspect of a player is. When 37 year old Kieth Brooking can cause a noticeable improvement over the bigger, stronger, faster Joe Mays you can just imagine what kind of difference a REAL starting level MLB could have made for this D. Imagine if we were the team trading a 4th for Demeco Ryans this past off-season.


Umm, Ryans was available because he wasn't a three down LB who wasn't in the Texans dime packages as a coverage guy and was coming off a torn achilles. You want to bring in THAT guy when we already have LBers that can't cover?

Like it or not the team has already invested in Irving/Trevathan as competition and giving them a chance to develop. I'd love to have a three down MLB that can attack the run and play coverage but those guys are few and far between.

Again, Brooking was nothing special as a signing. Koppen was worthwhile, but what have they done to shore up OG or OT?

Did you miss Ramirez playing reasonabely well for Kuper?


Those players are just examples of who they could have brought in. I'm not a pro football scout. The fact is, guys who get paid to do just that seriously thought we were ok rolling with Joe Mays as a starting MLB.

The problem isn't with the scouting, it's the purely down to Mays regressing this year. He's making basic mistakes in alignment/reading run plays and attacking the right gaps. That's purely down to his crappy play but at least the FO had the sense to bring in Brooking as insurance and it's paying off.


Sure, they made a really good move brining Koppen in. Where was a similar move for MLB, a position that everyone knew desperately needed it?


Who signed Tony Carter to the Broncos? Here's a hint: he doesn't work here anymore.

Uh, the same douche who let him go to the Patriots in 2010? It was THIS current FO that brought him back as a free agent in November 2011.

I get that you want to improve the roster, but it completely doesn't happen in just two offseasons after McDaniels shafted this team talent wise.

What I see are guys like Carter, Harris, Leonhard, Bannan, Ramirez, Koppen (all backups, all signed by this FO) that have already provided key depth as well as two draft classes that are paying dividends NOW on the field.

Something we haven't had for years.

It will get better next year when for the FIRST time the FO can go about truely dedicating all of their resources to depth/best players available etc without having to deal with the appalling mess left at the QB position.

That's why signing someone like Leonhard is such a savy move. The guy is a veteran safety who can truely QB the defense but is not a 100% with a knee injury. It's a minimum risk investment that could pay off huge when/if he recovers. Already he's shown his use in dime packages.

gunns
10-17-2012, 08:02 AM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/uppercut.gifEh... I don't think our Returners will ****up that bad ever again.

gunns
10-17-2012, 08:05 AM
Brooking has a high football IQ but is physically done. My example was showing how important that aspect of a player is. When 37 year old Kieth Brooking can cause a noticeable improvement over the bigger, stronger, faster Joe Mays you can just imagine what kind of difference a REAL starting level MLB could have made for this D. Imagine if we were the team trading a 4th for Demeco Ryans this past off-season.




Yes, I've been lamenting that since it happened.

Bacchus
10-17-2012, 10:05 AM
http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/uppercut.gif

what is the story behind the video? How do I look it up?