PDA

View Full Version : Justin Houston vs. Von Miller


Champagne Powder
09-25-2012, 12:03 PM
2012 sacks
Houston, KC.................4
Miller, DEN....................3

Both were taken in the same draft.

Tim
09-25-2012, 12:05 PM
I'll take Von

maven
09-25-2012, 12:06 PM
I'll take Von

.

Champagne Powder
09-25-2012, 12:07 PM
I'll take Von

Me too. I just wanted to get this out there before the KC Queef troll thread was started.

Bigdawg26
09-25-2012, 12:16 PM
Von Miller twice over him! Houston is good, but he's not on Von's Level!

TheReverend
09-25-2012, 12:17 PM
I have zero concerns about Von in the pass rush department.

I DO have plenty of concerns about Von concerning over-aggressive play vs the run and coverage.

menonite
09-25-2012, 12:18 PM
Me too. I just wanted to get this out there before the KC Queef troll thread was started.

I like the way you think.

I just took a dump in my yard before my neighbors dog had a chance to do it.

DomCasual
09-25-2012, 12:28 PM
I like the way you think.

I just took a dump in my yard before my neighbors dog had a chance to do it.

I saw some scary teenagers when I was out walking the other day. I smashed my face into a tree, before they could beat me up.

swaiy
09-25-2012, 12:31 PM
I saw some scary teenagers when I was out walking the other day. I smashed my face into a tree, before they could beat me up.

I dropped a deuce on my car before the birds could just to show I wont be taking any of their crap.

DBroncos4life
09-25-2012, 12:32 PM
I saw some scary teenagers when I was out walking the other day. I smashed my face into a tree, before they could beat me up.

Oh yeah well i saw a vagina so I came in my pants before I could make a baby.

DaFace
09-25-2012, 12:33 PM
I don't think anyone reasonable would say that they'd take Houston over Von at the moment. Von has a whole season of productivity under his belt, while Houston is just now really starting to shine.

That said, the fact that we got Houston in the 3rd round is pretty exciting, and I'm anxious to see what happens once he and Tamba really get things rolling.

DomCasual
09-25-2012, 12:37 PM
Oh yeah well i saw a vagina so I came in my pants before I could make a baby.

I do that all the time - sometimes as much as nine times a day.

Phantom
09-25-2012, 12:39 PM
Wow - everyone but DaFace is unreasonable.

DaFace
09-25-2012, 12:41 PM
Wow - everyone but DaFace is unreasonable.

Ha...forgive the typo.

Kaylore
09-25-2012, 12:47 PM
This is the guy Sheepstud was insisting is better than Von. I would argue most of Houston's sacks have come in one game.

TheReverend
09-25-2012, 12:51 PM
This is the guy Sheepstud was insisting is better than Von. I would argue most of Houston's sacks have come in one game.

While that shoe fits both ways and while Houston's a good player, he's not even in the same realm as Von and most likely never will be.

Broncos_OTM
09-25-2012, 12:53 PM
id take jj watt over both of them

LetsGoBroncos
09-25-2012, 12:54 PM
2012 sacks
Houston, KC.................4
Miller, DEN....................3

Both were taken in the same draft.

How many sacks did Justin Houston have last year compared to Von?

Broncos_OTM
09-25-2012, 12:54 PM
This is the guy Sheepstud was insisting is better than Von. I would argue most of Houston's sacks have come in one game.

and two of three of vons sack were in garbage time

Broncos_OTM
09-25-2012, 12:55 PM
How many sacks did Justin Houston have last year compared to Von?

what does last year have to do with anything. they were both rookies and Houston had issues to start the year iirc

DBroncos4life
09-25-2012, 12:59 PM
and two of three of vons sack were in garbage time

Lol teams pass the ball to run out the clock now days? Ha!

DaFace
09-25-2012, 01:05 PM
How many sacks did Justin Houston have last year compared to Von?

There's no question that Von was more NFL-ready last year. Houston didn't really even start games until the second half of the season.

The question at this point is who has more upside. I'd still say Von wins that one, but you never know.

TheReverend
09-25-2012, 01:13 PM
Lol teams pass the ball to run out the clock now days? Ha!

It was our garbage time.

DENVERDUI55
09-25-2012, 01:51 PM
2012 sacks
Houston, KC.................4
Miller, DEN....................3

Both were taken in the same draft.

Ok so was JJ Watt and he has more than both. He is what KC thought they were getting with Ty Jackson.

Kaylore
09-25-2012, 02:06 PM
and two of three of vons sack were in garbage time

What does the Falcons garbage time defense have to do with Von Miller? I would argue it's harder to get a sack against a team that's trying to run clock. To say nothing of how athletic the play was, splitting the double team, rolling out and sacking an athletic QB.

I also don't agree that the Falcons game was garbage time. The Texans game was 85% garbage time, but the Falcons game was not.

broncosteven
09-25-2012, 02:06 PM
Houston was a nice value find for KFC in the 3rd round, he sorta makes up for some of those 1st round bust DT's.

Glad we have Von though too bad he doesn't have anyone to help him take away those double and triple teams on the line.

broncosteven
09-25-2012, 02:10 PM
I got pissed because my screen took too long to load so I clicked submit thread like 10 times, thought it would only post 1 post and deny the rest, who knew!

FearLanier
09-25-2012, 02:13 PM
Houston had a very difficult time in the first half of the season last year. I think showing up late to camp played a big role.

But boy oh boy has Houston been the player we've desperately needed since the Broncos played at Arrowhead last year.

10 sacks and a safety in his last 8 games. That's impressive. His pass coverage is better too.


I think something that gives both Von and Houston a big advantage is having an elite rusher on the opposite side to take pressure off of them.

Von was a great pick. He's a franchise player already, but it looks like Houston might be the steal of the entire draft. He's playing like a first round pick and we got him in the third by trade down. Definitely the best pick in the Pioli era.

DBroncos4life
09-25-2012, 02:13 PM
I wonder if Houston was a good value pick for KC...;D

Rabb
09-25-2012, 02:22 PM
I always wondered, and maybe someone can help me here, was Houston a good value find? Does he make up for their 1st round busts?

FearLanier
09-25-2012, 02:23 PM
I wonder if Houston was a good value pick for KC...;D

He brought good weed to KC. Just ask Tamba. He apparently tried the stuff! Ha!

Br0nc0Buster
09-25-2012, 02:25 PM
I don't think it has been said yet but Houston was a nice value find for KFC in the 3rd round, he sorta makes up for some of those 1st round bust DT's.

Glad we have Von though too bad he doesn't have anyone to help him take away those double and triple teams on the line.

DaFace
09-25-2012, 02:34 PM
I don't think it has been said yet but Houston was a nice value find for KFC in the 3rd round, he sorta makes up for some of those 1st round bust DT's.

Glad we have Von though too bad he doesn't have anyone to help him take away those double and triple teams on the line.

Not sure I'd go THAT far. But he helps take the sting off a little at least.

broncosteven
09-25-2012, 02:50 PM
I don't think it has been said yet but Houston was a nice value find for KFC in the 3rd round, he sorta makes up for some of those 1st round bust DT's.

Glad we have Von though too bad he doesn't have anyone to help him take away those double and triple teams on the line.

LOL

I tried to delete the dups but they won't go away.

I got tired of waiting for the post to be submitted I just kept clicking.

Cito Pelon
09-25-2012, 03:07 PM
LOL

I tried to delete the dups but they won't go away.

I got tired of waiting for the post to be submitted I just kept clicking.

Look at your avy pic there. How many fingers is Kranz holding up? That's right, one. BTW, did you read his book?

Blueflame
09-25-2012, 03:22 PM
LOL

I tried to delete the dups but they won't go away.

I got tired of waiting for the post to be submitted I just kept clicking.

The dupe posts went away for me. ;D

Broncos_OTM
09-25-2012, 03:31 PM
Lol teams pass the ball to run out the clock now days? Ha!

the game was over dumbass.

Broncos_OTM
09-25-2012, 03:33 PM
What does the Falcons garbage time defense have to do with Von Miller? I would argue it's harder to get a sack against a team that's trying to run clock. To say nothing of how athletic the play was, splitting the double team, rolling out and sacking an athletic QB.

I also don't agree that the Falcons game was garbage time. The Texans game was 85% garbage time, but the Falcons game was not.

Von had two sacks against the Steelers. this is what I am talking about.

DBroncos4life
09-25-2012, 03:34 PM
the game was over dumbass.

So the D should have stopped trying to stop the pass and get the ball back? And you call me a dumbass Ha!:spit: It was a kneel down sack!

ZachKC
09-25-2012, 03:36 PM
I like the way you think.

I just took a dump in my yard before my neighbors dog had a chance to do it.

;D

DBroncos4life
09-25-2012, 03:39 PM
There was 10:20 minutes left when Von sacked Ryan forcing a punt. :thumbsup:

TheReverend
09-25-2012, 03:43 PM
There was 10:20 minutes left when Von sacked Ryan forcing a punt. :thumbsup:

He's referencing the Pittsburgh game. I think what he meant with "garbage time sacks" was "meaningless sacks", since the game was essentially over by the time he sacked Ben.

DBroncos4life
09-25-2012, 03:47 PM
He's referencing the Pittsburgh game. I think what he meant with "garbage time sacks" was "meaningless sacks", since the game was essentially over by the time he sacked Ben.

Well that is how are D is built so I guess if we ever get the lead all are stats are "garbage".

TheReverend
09-25-2012, 03:52 PM
Well that is how are D is built so I guess if we ever get the lead all are stats are "garbage".

No... but a meaningless stat is just that. When you finally get to the QB with less 2 mins to go in the game and up two scores... well it really doesn't matter.

AmericanBroncFan
09-25-2012, 03:54 PM
I don't think anyone reasonable would say that they'd take Houston over Von at the moment. Von has a whole season of productivity under his belt, while Houston is just now really starting to shine.

That said, the fact that we got Houston in the 3rd round is pretty exciting, and I'm anxious to see what happens once he and Tamba really get things rolling.

Tamba is the next Merriman. NOTHING without the roids

FearLanier
09-25-2012, 07:12 PM
Tamba is the next Merriman. NOTHING without the roids

Tamba never did roids. If he did he would have been suspended more than one game.

menonite
09-25-2012, 07:15 PM
Tamba never did roids. If he did he would have been suspended more than one game.

That guy is just a troll. Ignore him.

KCStud
05-30-2013, 10:04 PM
I would argue most of Houston's sacks have come in one game.

Great player analysis Gaylore.

Justin Houston was ranked as a top 50 player so he's not that far off from Von. And he was a tremendous value for a 3rd round pick.

I love it that you insisted that he was overrated because he got a lot of sacks in one game his rookie year. ROFL!

SimonFletcher73
05-30-2013, 11:25 PM
Without Justin Houston the Chiefs would have only had one win instead of two. Doubles their wins! Defensive MVP. NFL MVP. Canton OH. First Ballot. GOAT.

24champ
05-30-2013, 11:52 PM
Great player analysis Gaylore.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OlA2UnJMqJY/UOrYPW1eChI/AAAAAAABJsM/jtpZusjH0T4/s1600/obsession1.jpg

Houshyamama
05-31-2013, 12:01 AM
Great player analysis Gaylore.

Justin Houston was ranked as a top 50 player so he's not that far off from Von. And he was a tremendous value for a 3rd round pick.

I love it that you insisted that he was overrated because he got a lot of sacks in one game his rookie year. ROFL!

This is how welcome your bumps are:

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu108/Fighting_Mullets/RandyBump.gif

Doggcow
05-31-2013, 02:25 AM
Great player analysis Gaylore.

Justin Houston was ranked as a top 50 player so he's not that far off from Von. And he was a tremendous value for a 3rd round pick.

I love it that you insisted that he was overrated because he got a lot of sacks in one game his rookie year. ROFL!

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/MTG-ThreadNecromancer_3198.jpg

Kaylore
05-31-2013, 08:51 AM
Was this thread necromancy supposed to be some kind of gotcha for me? lol.

1. Sheepstud, I have you on ignore because you are a blathering imbecile.

2. This doesn't even show anything. I don't even say Houston was bad. I made fun of you for saying he was better than Von Miller - a reminder of which, at this point, is beyond laughable.

3. Houston moving to a 4-3 is going to hurt his production next season.

4. Should we go dig all those posts up of you declaring Houston better than Miller, or my favorite, the thread where you go off about how Von Miller "isn't close" to an elite pass rusher in the NFL? Stones from glass homes, man.

5. Get a life. I don't care about you. I don't care what you think. You obviously have some kind of obsession with me. Go play with your sheep lover and stop rezing dead threads that don't prove anything other than what a contemptible idiot you are.

55CrushEm
05-31-2013, 09:06 AM
Was this thread necromancy supposed to be some kind of gotcha for me? lol.

1. Sheepstud, I have you on ignore because you are a blathering imbecile.

2. This doesn't even show anything. I don't even say Houston was bad. I made fun of you for saying he was better than Von Miller - a reminder of which, at this point, is beyond laughable.

3. Houston moving to a 4-3 is going to hurt his production next season.

4. Should we go dig all those posts up of you declaring Houston better than Miller, or my favorite, the thread where you go off about how Von Miller "isn't close" to an elite passer in the NFL? Stones from glass homes, man.

5. Get a life. I don't care about you. I don't care what you think. You obviously have some kind of obsession with me. Go play with your sheep lover and stop rezing dead threads that don't prove anything other than what a contemptible idiot you are.

Family smack?!? LOL

Kaylore
05-31-2013, 09:27 AM
Family smack?!? LOL

To him, it may be. If KCStud confirms the sheep is considered family, I will accept a ban per the OMane guidelines.

TheReverend
05-31-2013, 09:58 AM
Was this thread necromancy supposed to be some kind of gotcha for me? lol.

1. Sheepstud, I have you on ignore because you are a blathering imbecile.

2. This doesn't even show anything. I don't even say Houston was bad. I made fun of you for saying he was better than Von Miller - a reminder of which, at this point, is beyond laughable.

3. Houston moving to a 4-3 is going to hurt his production next season.

4. Should we go dig all those posts up of you declaring Houston better than Miller, or my favorite, the thread where you go off about how Von Miller "isn't close" to an elite passer in the NFL? Stones from glass homes, man.

5. Get a life. I don't care about you. I don't care what you think. You obviously have some kind of obsession with me. Go play with your sheep lover and stop rezing dead threads that don't prove anything other than what a contemptible idiot you are.

IF they use him the way we use Von, his production might increase. But I imagine they'll lob him at DE with Hali and just play wide splits like they did in Philly. So lol at KC again.

Wes Mantooth
05-31-2013, 09:58 AM
sacks: the singular metric by which all front seven defenders are measured

TheReverend
05-31-2013, 10:02 AM
sacks: the singular metric by which all front seven defenders are measured

I do think it's the most overrated stat in the league. Well, maybe right above tackles for DBs.

Kaylore
05-31-2013, 10:05 AM
I do think it's the most overrated stat in the league. Well, maybe right above tackles for DBs.

That should be a mark of shame for the entire defense.

TheReverend
05-31-2013, 10:06 AM
That should be a mark of shame for the entire defense.

Unless you're a cover 2 corner or a box safety, I fully agree.

Bmore Manning
05-31-2013, 10:08 AM
Is KC changing to a 4-3?

Houshyamama
05-31-2013, 10:27 AM
I do think it's the most overrated stat in the league. Well, maybe right above tackles for DBs.

All tackles aren't created equal and they shouldn't be categorized as such. I wish there were run stop tackles and tackles after a completion. Maybe even categorized depending on how close to the line of scrimmage they are. Not sure how it would work, but currently tackles is the most meaningless stat there is, for every position IMO.

TheReverend
05-31-2013, 10:37 AM
All tackles aren't created equal and they shouldn't be categorized as such. I wish there were run stop tackles and tackles after a completion. Maybe even categorized depending on how close to the line of scrimmage they are. Not sure how it would work, but currently tackles is the most meaningless stat there is, for every position IMO.

I think sacks need to come with auxillary info like "Did it end a drive?"

A drive killing sack... now THAT is a valuable stat.

Kaylore
05-31-2013, 10:39 AM
Is KC changing to a 4-3?

Officially they aren't or at least not right away, though Sutton has said that as the season goes on you'll see some changes. I think they're going to eventually. Sutton and Reid are both 4-3 guys.

Houshyamama
05-31-2013, 10:41 AM
I think sacks need to come with auxillary info like "Did it end a drive?"

A drive killing sack... now THAT is a valuable stat.

Pressure that forces a throw-away, while not quite as valuable as a drive ending sack, is far more valuable than a tackle 13 yds down the field on the same play. One is recorded, the other isn't (well not in a way casual fans care about).

Kaylore
05-31-2013, 10:41 AM
I think sacks need to come with auxillary info like "Did it end a drive?"

A drive killing sack... now THAT is a valuable stat.

I actually am a big fan of second down sacks. They aren't always obvious passing situations, and when you create negative yardage and force third and long situations, you're really doing your defense a favor.

TheReverend
05-31-2013, 10:43 AM
I actually am a big fan of second down sacks. They aren't always obvious passing situations, and when you create negative yardage and force third and long situations, you're really doing your defense a favor.

Swell as that may be, we're a team that has historically had better luck against 3rd and short than 3rd and long (*zero statistics supporting this, however I still have nightmares of Manning and Rivers racking up 50+ on drives that had multiple 3rd and longs).

ludo21
05-31-2013, 10:47 AM
Von's sacks last year DO show how quick he is though considering on many of them he had to beat Doom and Wolfe to the QB.

(not like we didnt know he was quick, but just sayin)

broncosteven
05-31-2013, 10:47 AM
Without Justin Houston the Chiefs would have only had one win instead of two. Doubles their wins! Defensive MVP. NFL MVP. Canton OH. First Ballot. GOAT.

He would have really turned it on and won kFc at least 2 more games but he wanted to make sure they could pick 1st overall to get their RT.

LOL

TheReverend
05-31-2013, 10:49 AM
Von's sacks last year DO show how quick he is though considering on many of them he had to beat Doom and Wolfe to the QB.

(not like we didnt know he was quick, but just sayin)

But it also kept protection from sliding his way as much and kept the QB from rolling away. I'm interested to see how this year unfolds and really hopeful that we can adequately replace Doom's presence FOR Von.

DBroncos4life
05-31-2013, 11:17 AM
To him, it may be. If KCStud confirms the sheep is considered family, I will accept a ban per the OMane guidelines.

If he gets to count a the animals he ****ed as family members this board is going to be empty.

TheReverend
05-31-2013, 11:33 AM
Pressure that forces a throw-away, while not quite as valuable as a drive ending sack, is far more valuable than a tackle 13 yds down the field on the same play. One is recorded, the other isn't (well not in a way casual fans care about).

Sorry missed this post earlier.

I agree, but it's really hard to quantify. Are pressure throw-aways a favorable stat for the defense, or for the QB?

I'd be inclined to say the latter.

sisterhellfyre
05-31-2013, 11:36 AM
4. Should we go dig all those posts up of you declaring Houston better than Miller, or my favorite, the thread where you go off about how Von Miller "isn't close" to an elite passer in the NFL?

C'mon, Kaylore, even you have to admit that Von isn't close to an elite passer in the NFL. Von's showing no signs of even beating out Dysert as the 3rd string scout QB, much less Osweiler.

LOL :charge:

DivineLegion
05-31-2013, 11:46 AM
I think sacks need to come with auxillary info like "Did it end a drive?"

A drive killing sack... now THAT is a valuable stat.

Tackles for a loss should become an official stat. That would help depreciate the value of a sack a little bit, because any negative play is a win for the defense, and a players should be measured statistically through positive impact plays.

gunns
05-31-2013, 11:47 AM
Von had two sacks against the Steelers. this is what I am talking about.

And? One was in the 2nd quarter. The 2nd with over a minute left in the 4th. The play before they had gained 10 yards in a still open game. Von took it away.

TheReverend
05-31-2013, 11:50 AM
Tackles for a loss should become an official stat. That would help depreciate the value of a sack a little bit, because any negative play is a win for the defense, and a players should be measured statistically through positive impact plays.

Whole-heartedly agree. It would definitely reshape how we value LOS defenders, as well, and I think it would be a very positive shift.

gyldenlove
05-31-2013, 12:00 PM
Whole-heartedly agree. It would definitely reshape how we value LOS defenders, as well, and I think it would be a very positive shift.

I agree, I have never liked the blurry line when it comes to distinguishing tackles for loss on the QB and sacks. Having an official negative play stat would be very nice and would eliminate the high variability between different reporting websites when it comes to tackles for loss.

For LOS defenders, having two categories - negative plays and no-gain plays would be very nice. In negative plays you have tackles for loss, sacks and fumbles recovered (and interceptions if any) and in no-gain plays you have passes defended, tackles for no gain and fumbles forced (the idea being that a forced fumble is not a definite negative play since the offense can recover the ball but it does stop forward progress).

ludo21
05-31-2013, 02:05 PM
I wonder if NFL stat guys keep track of this and don't share the info because its not "sexy"...

I know they have basically an NFL facebook where players are graded and put on the block... so why not hidden stats fans arent privy to?

gyldenlove
05-31-2013, 02:15 PM
I wonder if NFL stat guys keep track of this and don't share the info because its not "sexy"...

I know they have basically an NFL facebook where players are graded and put on the block... so why not hidden stats fans arent privy to?

No, the more things to keep track of the more they need to pay. That is why each team has their own stat guys to keep track during games. I believe most people use stats inc, which is pretty well respected.

ludo21
05-31-2013, 02:45 PM
No, the more things to keep track of the more they need to pay. That is why each team has their own stat guys to keep track during games. I believe most people use stats inc, which is pretty well respected.

doubt money is the reason they wouldnt do something like this to get an edge.

KCStud
09-19-2013, 09:11 PM
This is the guy Sheepstud was insisting is better than Von. I would argue most of Houston's sacks have come in one game.

After his struggles in the first half of his rookie year, he's got 22 sacks in his last 19 games.

Suck it Gaylore.

rolandftw
09-19-2013, 10:19 PM
Chiefs are going to have to say goodbye to Hali in a few years, to be able to afford Houston's salary

SonOfLe-loLang
09-19-2013, 10:33 PM
After his struggles in the first half of his rookie year, he's got 22 sacks in his last 19 games.

Suck it Gaylore.

Congratulations?

KCStud
09-19-2013, 10:37 PM
Chiefs are going to have to say goodbye to Hali in a few years, to be able to afford Houston's salary

Nope. Tamba gets paid a lot this year but it goes down a significantly after that.

The time to sign Houston will be this offseason.

Houshyamama
09-19-2013, 10:41 PM
Nope. Tamba gets paid a lot this year but it goes down a significantly after that.

The time to sign Houston will be this offseason.

So did they end up letting you marry her or not?

rolandftw
09-19-2013, 10:44 PM
Nope. Tamba gets paid a lot this year but it goes down a significantly after that.

The time to sign Houston will be this offseason.

I don't think they can resign Houston until one more year. Players aren't allowed to restructure rookie deals, until after the 3rd year

And still a high cap number for Hali. $11.5 and $12 million the next 2 seasons. hard to see them be willing to go pay the $25 million they both are going to cost.

Kaylore
09-19-2013, 11:07 PM
Houston sucks. He's not even average.

TonyR
09-20-2013, 06:03 AM
Houston sucks. He's not even average.

I'm right along with you in hating the Chiefs, but you're kidding about Houston, right? Better than Von? lol no. But he can play a little.

CEH
09-20-2013, 06:47 AM
They do keep track of impact plays. Whatever that definition is for the team they compile and analyzed plays every angle and configuration.

I have mentioned this several times but I will miss Von's play behind the LOS as much as his sacks.

When he turns a 2nd and 3 into 3rd and 6 becuase he drops the runner 3 yards behind the LOS that is a major win and the dude has a knack for doing it at key moments

Kaylore
09-20-2013, 08:10 AM
I'm right along with you in hating the Chiefs, but you're kidding about Houston, right? Better than Von? lol no. But he can play a little.

Yeah I'm just blowing smoke op Sheeptstud's ass. This dude couldn't wait to run over here and tell me how awesome Houston is. I imagine it has been eating at him all year.

I have to dude on ignore and can get him wound out better than any of the Chief trolls on here.

bronco militia
09-20-2013, 08:22 AM
Chiefs are going to have to say goodbye to Hali in a few years, to be able to afford Houston's salary

they will be able to sign him if they continue to ignore the QB position :D

MagicHef
09-20-2013, 08:31 AM
What is interesting to me is that Houston and Poe obviously have a lot of sacks, but relatively few other pressures compared to other players. When they rush the passer, they either get a sack or have zero impact on the play. Hali is the opposite, he leads the league in pressures, but only has one sack.

Or, maybe it's not interesting. I'm not sure.

DaFace
09-20-2013, 10:42 AM
What is interesting to me is that Houston and Poe obviously have a lot of sacks, but relatively few other pressures compared to other players. When they rush the passer, they either get a sack or have zero impact on the play. Hali is the opposite, he leads the league in pressures, but only has one sack.

Or, maybe it's not interesting. I'm not sure.

Hali seems to have an issue finishing the sack, but he clearly makes an impact. I can't for the life of me figure out why he whiffs on QBs so often.

As for Houston, the guy's a beast, pure and simple. I can honestly say I'd rather have Houston than Von at this point. I think Von's a better pure pass rusher, but Houston is incredibly versatile and does a great job dropping into coverage when he needs to. That type of thing confuses the hell out of offenses and has been a big part of our defense's success thus far.

Plus, he pays his speeding tickets.

Bronco Boy
09-20-2013, 10:53 AM
Nope. Tamba gets paid a lot this year but it goes down a significantly after that.

The time to sign Houston will be this offseason.

Like Jared Allen? ROFL.

MagicHef
09-20-2013, 11:24 AM
Hali seems to have an issue finishing the sack, but he clearly makes an impact. I can't for the life of me figure out why he whiffs on QBs so often.

As for Houston, the guy's a beast, pure and simple. I can honestly say I'd rather have Houston than Von at this point. I think Von's a better pure pass rusher, but Houston is incredibly versatile and does a great job dropping into coverage when he needs to. That type of thing confuses the hell out of offenses and has been a big part of our defense's success thus far.

Plus, he pays his speeding tickets.

In my experience, playing football is absolutely the best way for a football player to make an impact.

I'd certainly rather have Von for 16 games than Houston, though.

DaFace
09-20-2013, 11:34 AM
In my experience, playing football is absolutely the best way for a football player to make an impact.

I'd certainly rather have Von for 16 games than Houston, though.

Yep, and I wouldn't expect otherwise. Houston is what the Chiefs need right now, and Von is what the Broncos need. Well, want. They can obviously get by without him.

HILife
09-20-2013, 11:35 AM
I don't even need to look to know that KCitDoesn'tMatterWhatYourNameIS bump this thread.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7cep1T84k1rrfiie.gif

broncosteven
09-20-2013, 07:13 PM
Hali seems to have an issue finishing the sack, but he clearly makes an impact. I can't for the life of me figure out why he whiffs on QBs so often.

As for Houston, the guy's a beast, pure and simple. I can honestly say I'd rather have Houston than Von at this point. I think Von's a better pure pass rusher, but Houston is incredibly versatile and does a great job dropping into coverage when he needs to. That type of thing confuses the hell out of offenses and has been a big part of our defense's success thus far.

Plus, he pays his speeding tickets.

Houston is overrated. He is an edge pass rusher and that is it. with the switch to the 3-4 he has been better setting the edge on run plays but even when he forces the play inside he falls off tackles and lets the RB through the hole which is one of the reasons kFc is so bad vs the run. Hali is even worse against the run.

Thursday night vs the Eagles Houston and Hali didn't show up in the game until after there was a double digit lead and Sutton (I think that is your DC's name) decided to let them just rush the passer.

McCoy and Vick both still had big yardage on the ground after that but Houston was able to get a couple sacks cleaning up Hali's wiffs.

KCStud
09-20-2013, 07:50 PM
Houston is overrated. He is an edge pass rusher and that is it. with the switch to the 3-4 he has been better setting the edge on run plays but even when he forces the play inside he falls off tackles and lets the RB through the hole which is one of the reasons kFc is so bad vs the run. Hali is even worse against the run.

Thursday night vs the Eagles Houston and Hali didn't show up in the game until after there was a double digit lead and Sutton (I think that is your DC's name) decided to let them just rush the passer.

McCoy and Vick both still had big yardage on the ground after that but Houston was able to get a couple sacks cleaning up Hali's wiffs.

Literally all of this is wrong. Hilarious!

broncosteven
09-20-2013, 08:37 PM
Literally all of this is wrong. Hilarious!

Refute it, you can go back and look through the game thread, it backs up everything I have said about Houston and even Bowe.

Prove me otherwise.

264 yards rushing given up by your vaunted D.

Miller is much better vs the run than Houston and Hali put together.

Houshyamama
09-20-2013, 08:49 PM
Why are we arguing with this retard?

rolandftw
09-20-2013, 09:05 PM
they will be able to sign him if they continue to ignore the QB position :D

With any luck, KC will overpay on Smith during the offseason. If Tony Romo, is worth $120 million over 7 years, then clearly Smith is worth at least that much.

DaFace
09-20-2013, 09:49 PM
Houston is overrated. He is an edge pass rusher and that is it. with the switch to the 3-4 he has been better setting the edge on run plays but even when he forces the play inside he falls off tackles and lets the RB through the hole which is one of the reasons kFc is so bad vs the run. Hali is even worse against the run.

Thursday night vs the Eagles Houston and Hali didn't show up in the game until after there was a double digit lead and Sutton (I think that is your DC's name) decided to let them just rush the passer.

McCoy and Vick both still had big yardage on the ground after that but Houston was able to get a couple sacks cleaning up Hali's wiffs.

You appear to be bad at football. Noted.

MagicHef
09-21-2013, 12:34 AM
You appear to be bad at football. Noted.

I don't agree with his take on Houston, but it's no more laughable or homeristic than reading on CP that Houston is better against the run and in coverage than Von.

DaFace
09-21-2013, 06:50 AM
I don't agree with his take on Houston, but it's no more laughable or homeristic than reading on CP that Houston is better against the run and in coverage than Von.

If I'd said "OMG EVERYONE HERE IS A STUPID HOMER" then you might have a point. Every site has its homers (and usually a lot of them). I just don't feel the need to get into pissing matches with people who are more interested in making themselves feel better than they are about discussing what actually happens on the field.

As for Houston vs. Von, as I mentioned earlier, I think Von is a better pure pass rusher and that Houston is better in coverage, but they're honestly very close. And again, Houston isn't sitting on his couch right now, which makes him a more attractive option at the moment.

Bronco
09-21-2013, 07:14 AM
I like Justin Houston a lot, but Von is more dynamic.

The real question should be which 'Houston' in the AFCw is better, I'd take Lamarr.

DENVERDUI55
09-21-2013, 07:19 AM
VON is a much more dominant player pass rushing and playing defense. The only argument made for Houston would be he doesn't have same off field issues.

DivineLegion
09-21-2013, 08:05 AM
This is thread is beyond comprehension.

First of all, both players have two totally different roles for their respective teams. In terms of pass rushing ability Von Miller is by far the better player, he's a once in a generation type talent. Against the run, again, Von Miller is worlds better than Houston, as a matter of fact he's so much better against the run that this very point makes this thread ridiculous. The biggest discrepancy is in coverage, but the Broncos don't use Von Miller in coverage the way the Cheifs use Houston, so you can't legitimately make an argument here. This is the area where scheme makes this an unreasonable comparison.


So, is Justin Houston a more complete player than Von Miller? No. Von Millers ability to make plays behind the LOS against the run, and as a pass rusher make Von Miller an unmatched talent. Justin Houston is a decent pass rusher with good cover skills, but has proven to be less effective giants the run. Because Von Miller is such a great pass rusher, on downs where Houston is droping back into coverage Von is ripping through the line chasing QBs. That said you would have to compare Houston's coverage impact to Von's pass rushing impact, and again Vin Miller takes the cake.

Suck it!

KCStud
09-21-2013, 09:19 AM
Refute it, you can go back and look through the game thread, it backs up everything I have said about Houston and even Bowe.

Prove me otherwise.

264 yards rushing given up by your vaunted D.

Miller is much better vs the run than Houston and Hali put together.

Yeah you're right. Michael Vick had nothing to do with that. He never beats teams with his legs. Ever.

bombay
09-21-2013, 09:24 AM
Why are chefs fans so desperate for our attention? I don't go crying around other teams web sites.

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-21-2013, 09:28 AM
Yeah you're right. Michael Vick had nothing to do with that. He never beats teams with his legs. Ever.

Ok. Take Vick out of the equation and their starting RB had 158 on 20 carries. Dude was even hurt for some of the game. Mccoy was averaging almost 8 a carry!

Drunken.Broncoholic2
09-21-2013, 09:30 AM
Why are chefs fans so desperate for our attention? I don't go crying around other teams web sites.

I find most are shunned and casted off their own pages.

KCStud
09-21-2013, 09:41 AM
Ok. Take Vick out of the equation and their starting RB had 158 on 20 carries. Dude was even hurt for some of the game. Mccoy was averaging almost 8 a carry!

McCoy is an elite back in this league. Nobody in this division but us has a guy like him.

TonyR
09-21-2013, 09:44 AM
McCoy is an elite back in this league. Nobody in this division but us has a guy like him.

As long as by "like him" you mean "a very poor man's version of him", then yes.

KCStud
09-21-2013, 09:49 AM
As long as by "like him" you mean "a very poor man's version of him", then yes.

I'll take Jamaal anyday over whatever scrub RB you have right now.

He's on pace for 2,000 all purpose yards and 16 TD's.

Kaylore
09-21-2013, 09:55 AM
Michael Vick leads the league in being sacked every year.

TonyR
09-21-2013, 09:59 AM
I'll take Jamaal anyday over whatever scrub RB you have right now.

LOL That wasn't the argument. Do you think he's as good as McCoy?!?

And unfortunately for you the Chiefs have very little after Charles, who is more key to the Chiefs offensive success than any of the Broncos' backs are to theirs. You know, because the Broncos have a QB and WRs.

DENVERDUI55
09-21-2013, 10:39 AM
I'll take Jamaal anyday over whatever scrub RB you have right now.

He's on pace for 2,000 all purpose yards and 16 TD's.

What does Charles have to do with this thread? If we go there might as well bring up WR, TE and QB.

broncosteven
09-21-2013, 01:42 PM
I'll take Jamaal anyday over whatever scrub RB you have right now.

He's on pace for 2,000 all purpose yards and 16 TD's.

Love how your already modifying Charles performance downward by using the "All Purpose" designation.

1200 rush yards is nothing special.

They have been using him well at the end of games, I wonder if Reid giving him an ear full after his weak attempt to run inside early in the Philly game motivated him more to close that game out. Nothing like getting humiliated on a Nationally televised game.

Houshyamama
09-21-2013, 03:07 PM
McCoy is an elite back in this league. Nobody in this division but us has a guy like him.

When healthy and motivated, McFadden is a hell of a back.

Houshyamama
09-21-2013, 03:13 PM
I don't think anybody on this board would turn down the opportunity to have Jamaal Charles on this team.

Look, the Chiefs are playing well. They are 3-0. I'm willing to give them credit. No wins in the NFL are easy wins and they got 3 of them in a row.

As a Chiefs fan, you should be excited.

But let's withhold judgement on the true nature of the Chiefs until they perform well against a legitimate opponent.

Jacksonville
Dallas
Philadelphia

All teams that are struggling. Jacksonville is competing for worst team in the league. You are a member of the AFC West, you should destroy them.

Dallas and Philadelphia are probably .500 ball clubs this year, ... maybe worse, who knows.

The point is, why would you come on to the message board of arguably the best team in the league and talk **** about beating three mediocre -at best- teams?

I look forward to playing the Chiefs this year. I'll be pumped up for sure.

KCStud
09-21-2013, 05:17 PM
Love how your already modifying Charles performance downward by using the "All Purpose" designation.

1200 rush yards is nothing special.

They have been using him well at the end of games, I wonder if Reid giving him an ear full after his weak attempt to run inside early in the Philly game motivated him more to close that game out. Nothing like getting humiliated on a Nationally televised game.

Which is still more than McCoy has ever had in his career. Difference is Jamaal is being used more in the passing game which helped the offense look great in 2010.

And Jamaal sure did look "embarrassed" on Thursday. Hilarious!
http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2013/09/20/810031586-1.gif

Your stupidity is just too comical brokebacksteven.

DivineLegion
09-21-2013, 05:20 PM
Which is still more than McCoy has ever had in his career. Difference is Jamaal is being used more in the passing game which helped the offense look great in 2010.

And Jamaal sure did look "embarrassed" on Thursday. Hilarious!
http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2013/09/20/810031586-1.gif

Your stupidity is just too comical brokebacksteven.

I love how Smith panics and throws off his back foot in that gif.


Our secondary is salivating.

KCStud
09-21-2013, 05:21 PM
Jamaal also had this beauty last week too. But he is embarrassing isn't he brokebacksteven!!!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qLk08GRTAx4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

broncosteven
09-21-2013, 06:13 PM
OOOOHHHH a block (in a play where your QB looks terrible) and a pass reception.

Charles can run outside when he can get to the edge but Reid had to challenge his man hood to get him to run inside like he meant it.

I got to admit he does look better as a receiver than Bowe. How much did you guys pay him again to "Upgrade" your WR corps?

Bowe has only 9 receptions for 90 yards despite being targeted 17 times.

BTW Andre Caldwell has 2 catches on 2 targets for 64 yards and a TD. Caldwell>Bowe.

DENVERDUI55
09-21-2013, 06:22 PM
What is with brokeback lame reference attempts to make fun of broncos?

Bronco
09-21-2013, 07:49 PM
What is with brokeback lame reference attempts to make fun of broncos?

hmmm...

He is a loser?

DENVERDUI55
09-21-2013, 08:58 PM
hmmm...

He is a loser?

It makes zero sense.

Ingame
09-22-2013, 05:31 AM
Michael Vick leads the league in being sacked every year.

He does?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_sacked_year_by_year.htm

DivineLegion
09-22-2013, 05:36 AM
Haha, poor David Carr!

KCStud
09-22-2013, 11:07 AM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/068/171/CladyPassProKC_MOD_original.gif?1379455723

Houston was already giving your OL a fight for it's life last year. He is going to rape your backup LT.

rolandftw
09-22-2013, 11:43 AM
I'm sure Denver will double Houston, much like how KC will double Von Miller

KCStud
09-22-2013, 12:02 PM
I'm sure Denver will double Houston, much like how KC will double Von Miller

I expect that too. Difference is we have another strong pass rusher on the other side while yours is in Baltimore.

Broncos_OTM
09-22-2013, 12:10 PM
I expect that too. Difference is we have another strong pass rusher on the other side while yours is in Baltimore.

Homie, you need a intervention.

Boltjolt
09-22-2013, 12:15 PM
Houston is a stud and a steal in the third round. Id have picked him in the first round for us and was a big advocate of that. So far, 7.5 sacks this year to Millers zero. Sure Von is the better player overall but Houston isnt in trouble all the time or a roid user and isnt one more violation away from a year suspension.

Broncos_OTM
09-22-2013, 12:27 PM
I don't think anybody on this board would turn down the opportunity to have Jamaal Charles on this team.

Look, the Chiefs are playing well. They are 3-0. I'm willing to give them credit. No wins in the NFL are easy wins and they got 3 of them in a row.

As a Chiefs fan, you should be excited.

But let's withhold judgement on the true nature of the Chiefs until they perform well against a legitimate opponent.

Jacksonvillej
Dallas
Philadelphia

All teams that are struggling. Jacksonville is competing for worst team in the league. You are a member of the AFC West, you should destroy them.

Dallas and Philadelphia are probably .500 ball clubs this year, ... maybe worse, who knows.

The point is, why would you come on to the message board of arguably the best team in the league and talk **** about beating three mediocre -at best- teams?

I look forward to playing the Chiefs this year. I'll be pumped up for sure.
Aggreed, congrats in coming out the stellar. I like having strong opponents. Less of a chance of having trap games. I really don't understand people like. Kfc and Bob... maybe they don't get enough attention. I really am interested in knowing why they come over here. Maybe Kfc can throw some more family smack around

Broncos_OTM
09-22-2013, 12:30 PM
Houston is a stud and a steal in the third round. Id have picked him in the first round for us and was a big advocate of that. So far, 7.5 sacks this year to Millers zero. Sure Von is the better player overall but Houston isnt in trouble all the time or a roid user and isnt one more violation away from a year suspension.
Come back when you know what you are talking about. Roids..... that was merriman.
Von was just auditioning for dude where's my car II

Boltjolt
09-22-2013, 12:37 PM
Come back when you know what you are talking about. Roids..... that was merriman.
Von was just auditioning for dude where's my car II

Dont matter what it was. It was a banned substance. Dude is dumb as hell. Great player, just not very smart. Next time will be a year suspension.

Bronco Boy
09-22-2013, 12:42 PM
I just hope Von doesn't tear Phyllis Rivers's ACL when he sacks him this year. I always hate to see players get injured, even if they are on a rival team.

Boltjolt
09-22-2013, 12:43 PM
I just hope Von doesn't tear Phyllis Rivers's ACL when he sacks him this year. I always hate to see players get injured, even if they are on a rival team.

LOL, not sure why you even bothered to go there.

KCStud
09-22-2013, 12:54 PM
I'd actually say that at this point in time, almost every AFC top-end team has/is struggling.

Steelers look awful.
Ravens look like they are struggling to adjust to new faces.
Patriots offense is struggling bad.
Texans are struggling compared to last year.


Besides the Broncos, the Chiefs, Colts and Bengals look like the best teams at this point in time (though the Chiefs have only played one average team).

The NFC looks so much better as a whole with the 49ers, Seahawks, Falcons, Packers and Saints looking like their old selves.

rolandftw
09-22-2013, 01:10 PM
I expect that too. Difference is we have another strong pass rusher on the other side while yours is in Baltimore.

I think in obvious passing situations, Shaun Phillips will be able to get on the field and get pressure on the QB.

Broncos_OTM
09-22-2013, 01:11 PM
Its funny and ironic. Houston dropped in the draft due to smoking marijuana concerns. Nobody can say for sure if this could be a issue moving forward. Or if itnisnt right now. First time cases as we have learned with von don't come to public light. So if I was Kfc fans id be saying a prayer every night that he doesn't have rocks for brains

rolandftw
09-22-2013, 01:11 PM
I'd actually say that at this point in time, almost every AFC top-end team has/is struggling.

Steelers look awful.
Ravens look like they are struggling to adjust to new faces.
Patriots offense is struggling bad.
Texans are struggling compared to last year.


Besides the Broncos, the Chiefs, Colts and Bengals look like the best teams at this point in time (though the Chiefs have only played one average team).

The NFC looks so much better as a whole with the 49ers, Seahawks, Falcons, Packers and Saints looking like their old selves.

Agreed other then the Ravens. They look very much legit to me. Patriots will be a lot better once Gronk comes back.

Chiefs vs Texans will be a huge litmus test for KC

Broncos_OTM
09-22-2013, 01:15 PM
Dont matter what it was. It was a banned substance. Dude is dumb as hell. Great player, just not very smart. Next time will be a year suspension.you're losing credibility here dude. There is a HUGE difference in being a roid head and a pot head. If you don't see the difference you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer.... now are ya

Boltjolt
09-22-2013, 01:31 PM
you're losing credibility here dude. There is a HUGE difference in being a roid head and a pot head. If you don't see the difference you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer.... now are ya

Roids, weed...whatever...my point is he isnt very smart and is one more violation away from a year off. Who cares if you want to keep arguing what it was. They are both against league policy so in that regard, there is no difference.

theAPAOps5
09-22-2013, 01:37 PM
Dont matter what it was. It was a banned substance. Dude is dumb as hell. Great player, just not very smart. Next time will be a year suspension.

It mattered whe you accused him of roids. If what he got popped for didn't matter, why didn't you just say banned substance.

Fact is you don't know what you are talking about. Talk smack about that lunkhead all you want, but at least know what you are talking about first.

oubronco
09-22-2013, 02:00 PM
http://raddezigns.com/decal_pics/11783_Black.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=arAlAGBJgs2sNM&tbnid=TqgSC-9cBk60sM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fraddezigns.com%2F11783%2Fgo-broncos-pee-on-chiefs-pee-ons-car-window-decals-stickers&ei=V00-UvfbIeie2AXXooGoAQ&bvm=bv.52434380,d.b2I&psig=AFQjCNEEYNdlQALkyR1zFy2rcsq9lV1ZGA&ust=1379901140238038)

bowtown
09-22-2013, 02:04 PM
http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/001/068/171/CladyPassProKC_MOD_original.gif?1379455723

Houston was already giving your OL a fight for it's life last year. He is going to rape your backup LT.

Wow he got to Peyton after he went through his entire progression and pumped and reset twice. FITS!

DaFace
09-22-2013, 03:24 PM
Wow he got to Peyton after he went through his entire progression and pumped and reset twice. FITS!

I really don't understand why people (not just here and not just about the Chiefs) constantly act like players (or teams) don't deserve any credit when they take advantage of another player's (or team's) mistakes. It's part of the game.

It counts just as much as anything. Are you suggesting that none of Von's sacks have come because of another QB holding the ball too long?

bowtown
09-22-2013, 03:38 PM
I really don't understand why people (not just here and not just about the Chiefs) constantly act like players (or teams) don't deserve any credit when they take advantage of another player's (or team's) mistakes. It's part of the game.

It counts just as much as anything. Are you suggesting that none of Von's sacks have come because of another QB holding the ball too long?

No. Congrats. He got the sack counts as a sack. What it doesn't count as is "giving our line fits." It was a coverage sack and not what sheep stud was trying to illustrate at all. It's like if a wide open guy had tipped a ball and then it was intercepted and I was strutting around saying "you have no answers for our secondary."

DaFace
09-22-2013, 03:48 PM
No. Congrats. He got the sack counts as a sack. What it doesn't count as is "giving our line fits." It was a coverage sack and not what sheep stud was trying to illustrate at all. It's like if a wide open guy had tipped a ball and then it was intercepted and I was strutting around saying "you have no answers for our secondary."

Gotcha. I'll concede that to a point. Clady did get beat, but you're definitely correct that the sack may have been as much on the secondary as the OL.

My broader point still stands, though. It's one of my major pet peeves with intra-rival discussions.

Broncos_OTM
09-22-2013, 04:09 PM
Roids, weed...whatever...my point is he isnt very smart and is one more violation away from a year off. Who cares if you want to keep arguing what it was. They are both against league policy so in that regard, there is no difference.
One could argue the point that they feel entilted. I wanna say its arrogance more then ignorance although after hearing von speak it is probably a combo of the two. I have been very outspoken against von. However, calling him a roid head carries a lingering stain on his reputation. And the broncos as a org. If von can make it through his career with out messing up again its a little blip on his resume... roids would follow and haunt him... see Shawn merriman

bowtown
09-22-2013, 04:11 PM
Gotcha. I'll concede that to a point. Clady did get beat, but you're definitely correct that the sack may have been as much on the secondary as the OL.

My broader point still stands, though. It's one of my major pet peeves with intra-rival discussions.

I mean I guess I agree, but then again I'm not really sure what you were expecting on a rivals message board, in a thread featuring the resident KC trolls.

DaFace
09-22-2013, 08:40 PM
I mean I guess I agree, but then again I'm not really sure what you were expecting on a rivals message board, in a thread featuring the resident KC trolls.

Touche.