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View Full Version : Believers yet ? The Deciders....part 3


Jetmeck
09-24-2012, 10:41 PM
Think maybe you believe that maybe just maybe the real officials are worth 63,000 per team now ?

The Patriots, Green Bay and Broncos do, do you ?

Get past some of the labor/union hate and look with your eyes.

These second rate officials have the become the decider of games and the NFL's integrity is on the line.

Offer a decent contract to these guys and get this fiasco ended now.

FYI, I am not saying give these guys everything they want is appropriate but damn near so as they have become the deciders and costing teams games.

menonite
09-24-2012, 10:51 PM
The guy in the review booth who said the play resulted in a TD was not a scab was he?

The NFL needs highly trained full time refs coupled with modern technology to reduce human error.

It's just like politics. In this case it's Unions vs NFL fatcats. In politics it's Republicans vs Democrats. Everybody fights over whose side sucks worse.

I'm just here for the cheerleaders and Methewolf jokes.

ScottXray
09-24-2012, 11:05 PM
The booth official can't call the Offensive PI by Tate on that last play.
Blatantly pushed a defender out of the way, got ONE hand on the ball
while the GB player had two. NEVER had control of the ball, which means a catch was not possible.

Yet the ruling on the field was TD Seattle. The repaly didn't show overwhelming evidence to overturn that so the call stood. But it was the
wrong one.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the Packers and enjoy a little misery coming their
way. But Seattle did not win that game. The Refs gave it to them, with a home team call all the way. BS.

houghtam
09-24-2012, 11:09 PM
The guy in the review booth who said the play resulted in a TD was not a scab was he?

The NFL needs highly trained full time refs coupled with modern technology to reduce human error.

It's just like politics. In this case it's Unions vs NFL fatcats. In politics it's Republicans vs Democrats. Everybody fights over whose side sucks worse.

I'm just here for the cheerleaders and Methewolf jokes.

According to NFL rules, the replay official only initiates the review. The referee makes the ultimate call based on what he sees on the monitor. The motion to have all replays confined to the booth was not passed by the rules committee this year.

menonite
09-24-2012, 11:19 PM
According to NFL rules, the replay official only initiates the review. The referee makes the ultimate call based on what he sees on the monitor. The motion to have all replays confined to the booth was not passed by the rules committee this year.

I did not know that. Thanks for the info.

DENVERDUI55
09-25-2012, 07:21 AM
According to NFL rules, the replay official only initiates the review. The referee makes the ultimate call based on what he sees on the monitor. The motion to have all replays confined to the booth was not passed by the rules committee this year.

Another thing is replay can't determine possesion between 2 players. They could only review whether ball was a catch or not. When those refs were looking at it they had to know a **** storm was coming and they screwed up and couldn't change call. Call cost GB the game and the calls before that play on Seattles last drive were awful.

v2micca
09-25-2012, 07:47 AM
Another thing is replay can't determine possesion between 2 players. They could only review whether ball was a catch or not. When those refs were looking at it they had to know a **** storm was coming and they screwed up and couldn't change call. Call cost GB the game and the calls before that play on Seattles last drive were awful.

Indeed, While they were in the review booth, the Refs had to know that they screwed up, but also that they couldn't do anything about it at that point. Personally, If I was in that situation, I would have cheated. I would have ruled incomplete pass and BSed my way through an explanation about the reciever not maintaining control through the entire process. I would rather get excoriated the next day for bullsh**ing my way to the right call, instead of correctly letting the wrong one stand.

Pendejo
09-25-2012, 07:47 AM
According to NFL rules, the replay official only initiates the review. The referee makes the ultimate call based on what he sees on the monitor. The motion to have all replays confined to the booth was not passed by the rules committee this year.

Apparently with the beer pong refs they're going with this season they're allowing them a little help.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/25/non-replacements-had-a-hand-in-last-nights-debacle-too/

Under normal circumstances, the decision would be made exclusively by the referee. Now, with the non-replacement league supervisor in the replay booth along with the non-replacement replay official, the procedure has been, we’re told, blurred a bit, allowing the replacement referee to get input from the folks who otherwise would be saying, essentially, “Figure it out, Hochuli.”

houghtam
09-25-2012, 07:55 AM
Apparently with the beer pong refs they're going with this season they're allowing them a little help.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/25/non-replacements-had-a-hand-in-last-nights-debacle-too/

Under normal circumstances, the decision would be made exclusively by the referee. Now, with the non-replacement league supervisor in the replay booth along with the non-replacement replay official, the procedure has been, we’re told, blurred a bit, allowing the replacement referee to get input from the folks who otherwise would be saying, essentially, “Figure it out, Hochuli.”

And the conversation probably went something like this:

REPLAY: ...and here you can see Jennings come down with the ball...possession...there.

REF: Awesome, INT. Let's go--

REPLAY: Uhhh...hold on bub you can't do anything about it.

REF: Wait, what?

REPLAY: No, you can look at the replay, but since you ruled it on the field as a completed pass, you can't change it.

REF: Why not?

REPLAY: Those are the rules.

REF: No wonder your league looks like a total joke. I'm outta here!

Rock Chalk
09-25-2012, 08:13 AM
Pretty sure regular officials have decided games too. In fact, quite frequently.

So no, those part time employee's who make more than most people in this country already do not deserve more.

the NFL is not budging on this. Hate them all you want, but the refs are already being compensated well for their side jobs. As soon as they realize that they got a sweet ****ing gig and probably should just be happy with it, the sooner they can get back to work.

Until then, replacement refs.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/389855_514394175257189_271709607_n.jpg

Rock Chalk
09-25-2012, 08:18 AM
Edit: For the record, I dont care if the officials get what they want or not. I do want them back as much as any fan. But people acting like horse**** calls are unique to replacement officials are idiots and people acting like the NFL refs deserve 6 and 7 times as much money as your average american for their SIDE JOB are also idiots.

tsiguy96
09-25-2012, 08:21 AM
makes you realize that maybe they need to pay the officials, when people provide a unique service that not many others can provide, if you want that service you must be willing to accommodate them. NFL thought they could easily replace the officials, and are finding out they cannot.

houghtam
09-25-2012, 08:22 AM
Pretty sure regular officials have decided games too. In fact, quite frequently.

So no, those part time employee's who make more than most people in this country already do not deserve more.

the NFL is not budging on this. Hate them all you want, but the refs are already being compensated well for their side jobs. As soon as they realize that they got a sweet ****ing gig and probably should just be happy with it, the sooner they can get back to work.

Until then, replacement refs.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/389855_514394175257189_271709607_n.jpg

Okay, I understand that your position is that they don't deserve anything and the NFL isn't going to do anything.

Just out of curiosity though...

If you were the commissioner, would that be your policy publicly?

"Hate me all you want, but the regular refs make too much money. Until they cave, the NFL will continue to field these replacement refs. Here is a list of all the games that our regular refs affected, so you know...the replacement ones aren't much worse."

Good for business. Good for America. Good for the NFL. Rock Chalk for commissioner?

Hmmm, on second thought I think I might rather have Al Davis' corpse.

Phantom
09-25-2012, 08:46 AM
Problem is one ref ruled TD and one ref ruled INT. They should have huddled for half an hour and got the call straight on the FIELD. Then turn to replay for confirmation. It never should have been ruled TD so quickly without a discussion by the refs. Apparently the Head Ref ran straight to the replay booth after the play without conferring with the other refs.

houghtam
09-25-2012, 08:51 AM
Problem is one ref ruled TD and one ref ruled INT. They should have huddled for half an hour and got the call straight on the FIELD. Then turn to replay for confirmation. It never should have been ruled TD so quickly without a discussion by the refs. Apparently the Head Ref ran straight to the replay booth after the play without conferring with the other refs.

That was what they were saying on this video on ESPN.

The Ref's responsibility if he's not in on the call is to first get the story from both officials and then decide where to go from there.

BTW, the Chuckie look at the camera at 1:53 says it all.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=8422506

DBroncos4life
09-25-2012, 09:00 AM
Pretty sure regular officials have decided games too. In fact, quite frequently.

So no, those part time employee's who make more than most people in this country already do not deserve more.

the NFL is not budging on this. Hate them all you want, but the refs are already being compensated well for their side jobs. As soon as they realize that they got a sweet ****ing gig and probably should just be happy with it, the sooner they can get back to work.

Until then, replacement refs.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/389855_514394175257189_271709607_n.jpgYou do understand that the NFL wants to make the old ref FULL time so the hang up on retirement is a HUGE issue right???

enjolras
09-25-2012, 09:02 AM
I do not believe that the official could have overturned the call anyways.

They are not allowed to determine possession through replay, that is determined on the field. They can confirm that the Packer came down with the ball and confirmed an interception (or vice versa), but as to who actually possessed it that is beyond what the replay rules allow.

When they screwed the pooch on the field, it was over.

Garcia Bronco
09-25-2012, 09:06 AM
I would comment on this issue, but I'll wait for the Friday thread.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-25-2012, 09:10 AM
Edit: For the record, I dont care if the officials get what they want or not. I do want them back as much as any fan. But people acting like horse**** calls are unique to replacement officials are idiots and people acting like the NFL refs deserve 6 and 7 times as much money as your average american for their SIDE JOB are also idiots.

The NFL is its own unique Micro-economy where heaps of money is needlessly spent constantly. And I think if anything has been proven over the last few weeks, its that the NFL refs have a unique skill set that is integral to the game. Of course they **** up judgment calls, but they know the rules, spot balls correctly, and move the games in a timely manner.

If our economy was completely merit based, manual laborers would be making a lot more money than wall street cats who sit around and do nothing all day (i know too many of these people growing up in NYC, and they GLOAT about it) and contribute nothing to society.

If the NFL officials have a unique skill, in a micro economy that has its own rules anyway (and lets face it, no nfl team will go bankrupt if they give in to the refs demands), then for the sanctity of your game, pay the ****ers and get them back.

houghtam
09-25-2012, 09:21 AM
The NFL is its own unique Micro-economy where heaps of money is needlessly spent constantly. And I think if anything has been proven over the last few weeks, its that the NFL refs have a unique skill set that is integral to the game. Of course they **** up judgment calls, but they know the rules, spot balls correctly, and move the games in a timely manner.

If our economy was completely merit based, manual laborers would be making a lot more money than wall street cats who sit around and do nothing all day (i know too many of these people growing up in NYC, and they GLOAT about it) and contribute nothing to society.

If the NFL officials have a unique skill, in a micro economy that has its own rules anyway (and lets face it, no nfl team will go bankrupt if they give in to the refs demands), then for the sanctity of your game, pay the ****ers and get them back.

And now this thread will be moved to the WRP forum because some people don't realize that, sometimes you must discuss politics while discussing sports.

Beantown Bronco
09-25-2012, 09:27 AM
I do not believe that the official could have overturned the call anyways.

They are not allowed to determine possession through replay, that is determined on the field. They can confirm that the Packer came down with the ball and confirmed an interception (or vice versa), but as to who actually possessed it that is beyond what the replay rules allow.

When they screwed the pooch on the field, it was over.

He can do and overturn whatever he wants. The only punishment he'd receive is a phone call today telling him he got an F for the game. He's going to get that anyway. May as well get it right, regardless of whether or not it is supposedly allowed or not allowed.

Review the play. Call it "incomplete by way of interception" or however he wants to justify it at the time, and go home.

What's the worst they can do? Not give his crew the Super Bowl, assuming the referee lockout is still on in February? That ship had already sailed.

menonite
09-25-2012, 09:40 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

From the NFL today:

“Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

“Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review.
“The result of the game is final.”










Absolutely ridiculous.

houghtam
09-25-2012, 09:42 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/

From the NFL today:

“Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

“Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review.
“The result of the game is final.”










Absolutely ridiculous.

Unfortunately they're right though.

They just conveniently left out the part where they put in boys to do a man's job (figuratively speaking, of course) because of either greed or ambivalence.

menonite
09-25-2012, 09:50 AM
Florio says that the new refs have a non scab supervisor "helping" them make the calls.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/25/non-replacements-had-a-hand-in-last-nights-debacle-too


Whether that's true and whether that makes me (accidentally) correct in my original comment i don't know.

Either way, it is an embarrassment for the NFl that they should have just copped to. Jerry Jones is pretending that he didn't even see the game and that he hadn't heard that there was even a controversy.

ludo21
09-25-2012, 09:56 AM
Are we assuming the worst in these refs just because we're watching the games to see the mistakes they are making?

The real ref's mess up games all the time....not sure if the deal will get done, id love for it to, but a pension plan for part timers is not worth it long term for the owners

DBroncos4life
09-25-2012, 10:06 AM
Are we assuming the worst in these refs just because we're watching the games to see the mistakes they are making?

The real ref's mess up games all the time....not sure if the deal will get done, id love for it to, but a pension plan for part timers is not worth it long term for the owners

Full-time officials

The NFL wants seven full-time officials -- one at each officiating position -- to improve the overall quality of the group. Potentially, the number of full-timers could grow.

The NFLRA knows that to be full-time, officials would have to leave their other (full-time) jobs and lose income. The NFL is not going to pay them an amount equal to their present sum of two incomes, nor will it pay what MLB or NBA full-time referees make.

Again, the NFL is trying to make a change in the culture.

Proposed solution: The NFL caps the number of full-time officials and provides year-round physical training and rules seminars throughout the offseason to improve the quality and fitness of its officials group.

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=8421697


So you guys want these guys to leave their full time jobs to ref the NFL and lose income???

SonOfLe-loLang
09-25-2012, 10:30 AM
And now this thread will be moved to the WRP forum because some people don't realize that, sometimes you must discuss politics while discussing sports.

Oh cry me a ****ing river, i wasn't picking sides, i was stating reality.

houghtam
09-25-2012, 10:34 AM
Oh cry me a ****ing river, i wasn't picking sides, i was stating reality.

No dude, I agree with you entirely. I was just stating the obvious that someone is going to get butthurt because someone will feel they shouldn't have to be subjected to politics on a football message board, yet they can't understand that this does relate to politics and economics.

So they'll complain, the thread will get moved, and good discussion once again will be hidden away in a sub-forum.

menonite
09-25-2012, 10:36 AM
I was born a Whig and I'll die a Whig! Screw you Republi-Crats!

SonOfLe-loLang
09-25-2012, 10:42 AM
No dude, I agree with you entirely. I was just stating the obvious that someone is going to get butthurt because someone will feel they shouldn't have to be subjected to politics on a football message board, yet they can't understand that this does relate to politics and economics.

So they'll complain, the thread will get moved, and good discussion once again will be hidden away in a sub-forum.

oh, fair enough then

kappys
09-25-2012, 11:19 AM
Full-time officials

The NFL wants seven full-time officials -- one at each officiating position -- to improve the overall quality of the group. Potentially, the number of full-timers could grow.

The NFLRA knows that to be full-time, officials would have to leave their other (full-time) jobs and lose income. The NFL is not going to pay them an amount equal to their present sum of two incomes, nor will it pay what MLB or NBA full-time referees make.

Again, the NFL is trying to make a change in the culture.

Proposed solution: The NFL caps the number of full-time officials and provides year-round physical training and rules seminars throughout the offseason to improve the quality and fitness of its officials group.

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=8421697


So you guys want these guys to leave their full time jobs to ref the NFL and lose income???

what kind of income are we talking about for the full timers? What kind of working hours? Significant vacation particularly in the offseason?

A deal like this could be workable I would think depending on the salary and time off