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View Full Version : Billionaire Owners vs Retired NFL Referees


orinjkrush
09-19-2012, 03:42 PM
NFL League Revenue $9,500,000,000.00. US 2012
Average NFL Team Value $1,400,000,000.00 US

The NFL and its regular referees, the locked-out ones represented by the NFLRA, last met on Sept. 1, according to an internal NFLRA memo obtained by the Baltimore Sun. With almost three weeks since the league and its officials last talked, replacement referees could be on the field for some time.The memo says that the NFL refused to negotiate over its offer on referee pensions.

According to the memo, negotiators for the NFL offered an additional $1 million per year over a seven-year term to the total compensation package for officials. The prior collective bargaining agreement increased compensation for officials at about $1 million per year, excluding retirement benefits, according to the memo. The league's offer came with the condition that officials agree to "freeze and terminate" their current defined benefit pension plan.
The NFLRA countered with a willingness to reduce the $1 million annual compensation increase if the league was willing to negotiate over retirement benefits and other issues.

A divide of $250,000 for the 2012 season separates the two sides, according to the NFLRA, but the matter of retirement benefits appears to be the biggest sticking point.
Officials are proposing a gradual shift from a defined benefit pension plan, one that pays a specific amount to retirees based on their former salaries, to a defined contribution plan, i.e. a 401(k) in which officials play a portion of their salary to be matched by the NFL. New hires would be on the defined contribution plan, gradually ending the current pension system by limiting it to current beneficiaries.
According to calculations from the NFLRA, the league's annual contribution to individual retirement plans would decline to $18,250 per official each year. The NFL currently pays approximately $40,000 per year per retired official under the current plan.
Under the NFLRA proposal, the league would contribute $38,500 per year per official and increase monthly benefits for current officials by $55 a month.
Estimates from the officials put the total cost of their proposed retirement plan at $7 million for 2012. That number would fall "over time" to $5 million per year, the same amount the league paid under the previous agreement.
The NFLRA claims that if the organization received everything it was asking for, it would cost each team less than $100,000 per year and still amount to less than the prior collective bargaining agreement. In 2014, league revenues are expected to increase when a new contract with its broadcast partners takes effect, a point mentioned in the NFLRA memo.
The memo concludes by reiterating a willingness to resume negotiations. Currently, there are no outward signs of that happening.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/6/4/3062792/nfl-officials-referees

Atwater His Ass
09-19-2012, 03:45 PM
Don't care who's right or wrong or what the sticking points are. They just need to work it out immediately.

ZONA
09-19-2012, 03:51 PM
How would those billionaire owners like it if there profits or income was on freeze for 7 years? Sorry but the rich believe this to the bone. From NFL owners to CEO's. They want to make more and more every year and pay everybody else less and less. Yeah, that's a great way to build the middle class. As it is, American worker benefits are some of the worst of any civilized country. Work them more, harder, pay them less, freeze their wages and give them less benefits. I just don't understand their logic. How much is enough? They already have more money then they could ever hope to spend. Their families for generations are set. The best game in America is probably the worst run. Part time officials? Let's freeze their wages for 7 years..........burn in hell greedy ****ers.

Lestat
09-19-2012, 03:58 PM
see the problem i have with this is demanding that a chunk of refs become full time employees when they make likely more at their other jobs(like Ed Hoculi who is also a lawyer). then you also want to take away their pension, which is happening in most of corporate America but probably shouldn't be for NFL employees when there is enough money to go around for the sport.

DBroncos4life
09-19-2012, 04:04 PM
I can't wait for them to blow a Pats game and cause them to lose. Real refs would be back on the field the following week.

ZONA
09-19-2012, 04:10 PM
I can't wait for them to blow a Pats game and cause them to lose. Real refs would be back on the field the following week.

I wouldn't worry about that. They probably have Brady on their fantasy team....nuff said.

ludo21
09-19-2012, 04:16 PM
the part timers will figure it out soon enough. The main part of the game they are struggling with is pace and game control.

The NFL has no reason to budge unless we the viewers stop watching and buying gear.

Rock Chalk
09-19-2012, 04:21 PM
Why do part time employees deserve 40 k a year to their pension? That's more money to their pension than the average American makes in a ****ing year

maher_tyler
09-19-2012, 04:27 PM
the part timers will figure it out soon enough. The main part of the game they are struggling with is pace and game control.

The NFL has no reason to budge unless we the viewers stop watching and buying gear.

I'm already fed up with as I'm sure millions more are. After awhile people will stop watching if this doesn't get fixed. It took the real veteran refs years to get on par with the speed of the game.

lonestar
09-19-2012, 04:29 PM
Why do part time employees deserve 40 k a year to their pension? That's more money to their pension than the average American makes in a ****ing year

Exactly they work part time, why everyone does not get this is beyond me..

$18.5 a year in teh future for a part time job is nothing to bitch about..

Now if they were full time guys and had NO other jobs I could see a small thing to whine about it..

But even $18,5 with investments as well as their other retirement s from their REAL jobs should keep most folks living in a pretty good life style..

boltaneer
09-19-2012, 05:39 PM
I'm already fed up with as I'm sure millions more are. After awhile people will stop watching if this doesn't get fixed. It took the real veteran refs years to get on par with the speed of the game.

There won't nearly be enough people who stop watching, stop buying tickets/merchandise, etc. to make a difference.

Get used to the replacement refs.

Jetmeck
09-19-2012, 05:56 PM
How would those billionaire owners like it if there profits or income was on freeze for 7 years? Sorry but the rich believe this to the bone. From NFL owners to CEO's. They want to make more and more every year and pay everybody else less and less. Yeah, that's a great way to build the middle class. As it is, American worker benefits are some of the worst of any civilized country. Work them more, harder, pay them less, freeze their wages and give them less benefits. I just don't understand their logic. How much is enough? They already have more money then they could ever hope to spend. Their families for generations are set. The best game in America is probably the worst run. Part time officials? Let's freeze their wages for 7 years..........burn in hell greedy ****ers.


amen to this.............

Jetmeck
09-19-2012, 05:58 PM
Exactly they work part time, why everyone does not get this is beyond me..

$18.5 a year in teh future for a part time job is nothing to b**** about..

Now if they were full time guys and had NO other jobs I could see a small thing to whine about it..

But even $18,5 with investments as well as their other retirement s from their REAL jobs should keep most folks living in a pretty good life style..

They are wanting to terminate their pension plan you union hating asshole..................

Jetmeck
09-19-2012, 05:59 PM
Why do part time employees deserve 40 k a year to their pension? That's more money to their pension than the average American makes in a ****ing year

They are wanting to terminate their pensions entirely.........but a republican like you prob loves that ?

errand
09-19-2012, 06:04 PM
How would those billionaire owners like it if there profits or income was on freeze for 7 years? Sorry but the rich believe this to the bone. From NFL owners to CEO's. They want to make more and more every year and pay everybody else less and less. Yeah, that's a great way to build the middle class. As it is, American worker benefits are some of the worst of any civilized country. Work them more, harder, pay them less, freeze their wages and give them less benefits. I just don't understand their logic. How much is enough? They already have more money then they could ever hope to spend. Their families for generations are set. The best game in America is probably the worst run. Part time officials? Let's freeze their wages for 7 years..........burn in hell greedy ****ers.


then quit spending money on goods and services you need and want......

errand
09-19-2012, 06:15 PM
Why do part time employees deserve 40 k a year to their pension? That's more money to their pension than the average American makes in a ****ing year

Considering the majority of refs are also lawyers and doctors etc....I wonder what their net worth is without the pension. don't care if they make more money, but find it odd that the owners are considered greedy, but doctors and lawyers probably making 6 figures (or more) annually needing 40K added to their retirement portfolio are considered victims

errand
09-19-2012, 06:17 PM
They are wanting to terminate their pensions entirely.........but a republican like you prob loves that ?

Union evidently priced them out of their market value...like always. Can't wait to see your reaction when the fry cooks at McDonald's unionize and start making $25 an hour...and you gotta pay $12 for your small fries

DBroncos4life
09-19-2012, 06:20 PM
Considering the majority of refs are also lawyers and doctors etc....I wonder what their net worth is without the pension. don't care if they make more money, but find it odd that the owners are considered greedy, but doctors and lawyers probably making 6 figures (or more) annually needing 40K added to their retirement portfolio are considered victims

You're right they should be punished for wanting a better life.

lonestar
09-19-2012, 06:26 PM
They are wanting to terminate their pension plan you union hating a-hole..................

yep not a fan of unions as IMO they are for the weak minded or lazy..

Hell I negotiated better rates of pay than the union I had ever got me and saved the 35 bucks a month they were charging....

after I was part of management when I had union employees found out it was easier to terminate them than those that were not..

I got to set in on union negotiations and found out the union reps were more crooked than anyone.. that they were bought off with the use of a company car and parking space for it.. then sold a crappy offer to the employees..

when I was in Syracuse my union folks stuck was out for 4 weeks and wound up coming back for a nickle less per hour than the original offer was . plus all the business men that saw we were on strike came in droves to see we were not hurt by a lack of business got lots of business from the competitors client s because of that ..

like I said they are crooks and while they were necessary in the mines and old assembly lines where safety was a huge issue now that we have government departments covering OHSA and the state counterparts for state laws, that is not longer an issue..

so support your unions all you want I have seen what takes place and know that in most cases you could have done better and saved the money these leaches take from you..

lonestar
09-19-2012, 06:28 PM
Considering the majority of refs are also lawyers and doctors etc....I wonder what their net worth is without the pension. don't care if they make more money, but find it odd that the owners are considered greedy, but doctors and lawyers probably making 6 figures (or more) annually needing 40K added to their retirement portfolio are considered victims

:thumbs:

got to love it morons costing themselves more for being out of work than they can possibly make up over the life of the contract..

errand
09-19-2012, 07:00 PM
You're right they should be punished for wanting a better life.



the contract expired...so how is that punishing them? they're free to find employment making more $$$ elsewhere.

Rohirrim
09-19-2012, 07:09 PM
Players are part time employees too. When players go after a piece of the pie, everybody says, "Fine. They deserve it." After Monday night, nobody can deny that competent refs are a big part of the entertainment package. Value is completely arbitrary and subjective. IMO, MNF proved the value of good refs. Pay 'em.

NUB
09-19-2012, 07:20 PM
The refs are crucial to the quality (and integrity) of the game. That they have outside jobs is completely irrelevant. They have a job in the NFL and they should be compensated well for it. That, or we can stick with our 4-hour games and mysterious fumbles that go to the "Red" team and four timeouts and more injuries and etc. etc. etc.

Bacchus
09-19-2012, 07:55 PM
How would those billionaire owners like it if there profits or income was on freeze for 7 years? Sorry but the rich believe this to the bone. From NFL owners to CEO's. They want to make more and more every year and pay everybody else less and less. Yeah, that's a great way to build the middle class. As it is, American worker benefits are some of the worst of any civilized country. Work them more, harder, pay them less, freeze their wages and give them less benefits. I just don't understand their logic. How much is enough? They already have more money then they could ever hope to spend. Their families for generations are set. The best game in America is probably the worst run. Part time officials? Let's freeze their wages for 7 years..........burn in hell greedy ****ers.

I agree, I am done supporting the NFL. All the games I watch are online and I am done paying out of my pocket for them. These bastards do not need anymore of my money.

Bacchus
09-19-2012, 07:56 PM
Considering the majority of refs are also lawyers and doctors etc....I wonder what their net worth is without the pension. don't care if they make more money, but find it odd that the owners are considered greedy, but doctors and lawyers probably making 6 figures (or more) annually needing 40K added to their retirement portfolio are considered victims

LMAO... how do you come up with the fatc that a MAJORITY of officials are doctors and lawyers?

ant1999e
09-19-2012, 08:02 PM
Why do part time employees deserve 40 k a year to their pension? That's more money to their pension than the average American makes in a ****ing year

Because the owners are rich and we should hate rich people.

MrPeepers
09-19-2012, 08:03 PM
Why do part time employees deserve 40 k a year to their pension? That's more money to their pension than the average American makes in a ****ing year


completely subjective and relative to the job performed, I woudn't get 40 k but i dont hav ethe connections nor the expertise to warrant that.

BroncoMan4ever
09-19-2012, 08:29 PM
**** these greedy ass refs! They all have regular day jobs and a few hours of work 1 day a week 5-6 months out of the year does not require anything more than the owners offer. Being a ref is a recreational activity not a real job

Rock Chalk
09-19-2012, 08:35 PM
They are wanting to terminate their pensions entirely.........but a republican like you prob loves that ?

ITS A PART TIME JOB YOU ****ING IDIOT.

I know of NO company that offers Pension plans to part time employees.

DBroncos4life
09-19-2012, 08:38 PM
**** these greedy ass refs! They all have regular day jobs and a few hours of work 1 day a week 5-6 months out of the year does not require anything more than the owners offer. Being a ref is a recreational activity not a real job

Yeah **** these guys! Anyone can do their jobs anyways!

BroncoMan4ever
09-19-2012, 08:40 PM
ITS A PART TIME JOB YOU ****ING IDIOT.

I know of NO company that offers Pension plans to part time employees.

I agree. I have friends whose employers keep their weekly houts at 38 a week so they don't qualify as full time and cant qualify for benefits. A few hours 1 day a week is not deserving of any type of pension or benefits

Rolandftw
09-19-2012, 08:40 PM
It's hard for me to really feel for either side here. NFL refs do an important job, but don't really feel too bad for them considering how much they make. NFL Owners are being greedy in not caving in to what seems to be a paltry amount of money (at least compared to how much the game brings in).

Obviously, they can train these new refs and a year or two from now they will probably be as good as the old refs were

houghtam
09-19-2012, 08:44 PM
There won't nearly be enough people who stop watching, stop buying tickets/merchandise, etc. to make a difference.

Get used to the replacement refs.

This. No one on here is going to stop watching their beloved Broncos because of some refs. No one.

rugbythug
09-19-2012, 09:11 PM
I wish my part time job offered a 401 K on top of the 100K a year I made. This is the way the system is designed to work. Unionize and try and hold your boss hostage. Only problem is that they are only 25% better than guys making 75% less. If they keep this up for 8 games I say make the replacements the guys and roll with it.

lonestar
09-19-2012, 09:31 PM
Players are part time employees too. When players go after a piece of the pie, everybody says, "Fine. They deserve it." After Monday night, nobody can deny that competent refs are a big part of the entertainment package. Value is completely arbitrary and subjective. IMO, MNF proved the value of good refs. Pay 'em.

not in this life time..

they are contracted players that the NFLPA allows to get separate contracts with TEAMS they are not contracted to play for different teams each week the NFL and the NFLRA cover all refs that work for the league for reffing different teams each week....

hardly a valid point..

lonestar
09-19-2012, 09:39 PM
This. No one on here is going to stop watching their beloved Broncos because of some refs. No one.

:thumbs:

no real fan of a team, even the dolts, is going to miss the games because the refs are not as good as the old ones..

anyone that thinks a boycott will work is obviously a union dolt..

Hercules Rockefeller
09-19-2012, 09:52 PM
So this is a thread complaining that the owners want to go from a defined benefits program to a defined contribution plan? OMFG!! The horror!

Cito Pelon
09-19-2012, 09:57 PM
Corporations get a tax writeoff for their 401k matches to their employees. Does this apply to the NFL?

BroncoMan4ever
09-19-2012, 10:10 PM
Players are part time employees too. When players go after a piece of the pie, everybody says, "Fine. They deserve it." After Monday night, nobody can deny that competent refs are a big part of the entertainment package. Value is completely arbitrary and subjective. IMO, MNF proved the value of good refs. Pay 'em.

Part time? These guys have to work everyday to keep an edge to keep their jobs one more year. The constant lidting and working out and training may take place away frim team facilities but it is still hard work.

ZONA
09-20-2012, 03:53 AM
Because the owners are rich and we should hate rich people.

Spoken like a true publican who is probably poor and thinks making rich people even more rich will somehow benefit your life, lol. Talk about the walking brain washed, lol.

GET A CLUE - they rich don't like you, they don't care about you, they only care about your vote every 4 years and tell you a good story about how making them more rich will get you ahead. Wake up. They have China paying for adds because China wants the jobs they outsource. China wants a publican in office because they know we will go to war with somebody, which will get us in debt even more, make us more enemies, making us more weak int he long run, just what China wants.


Don't you see anything wrong with this picture? If you don't, you're already so far brain washed you have no hope.

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/chart-vulture-income-disparity.jpg

55CrushEm
09-20-2012, 04:49 AM
I wish my part time job offered a 401 K on top of the 100K a year I made. This is the way the system is designed to work. Unionize and try and hold your boss hostage. Only problem is that they are only 25% better than guys making 75% less. If they keep this up for 8 games I say make the replacements the guys and roll with it.

$100K per year for a PART time job? Good for you. Tell me what you do so I can get my wife to start doing it!

Rohirrim
09-20-2012, 08:17 AM
Part time? These guys have to work everyday to keep an edge to keep their jobs one more year. The constant lidting and working out and training may take place away frim team facilities but it is still hard work.

Same with the refs:

After Anderson's third year in the NFL, the league sent him to NFL Europe to audition as a referee.
He did so well that he realized he couldn't keep up full-time careers as a dentist and a football official.
"My company (Anderson Dental in Sugar Land) was a big group practice, with 45 employees and 13 doctors," he said. "I realized there was no way I could do justice to both, so I sold the practice. If I was going to have the opportunity to be an NFL referee, I wanted to do it in what I felt was the right way."
The "right way" takes time and equipment. Some might try to scrape by with, say, a satellite dish, a few cable boxes and four VCRs; Anderson has four dishes, each linked to a TiVo hard-disc recorder, eight VCRs and a computer with video-editing capability.
"A lot of the guys kid Mike Pereira (the NFL's director of officiating) that `Walt's got better equipment than you do,' " Anderson said, laughing.
Like every NFL official, Anderson receives a DVD of the game he has just worked before leaving the stadium each Sunday. He reviews the game on the plane ride back to Houston, e-mails his thoughts to crew members on Monday and presides over the first of two weekly conference calls that night.
Tuesday, each official receives sideline and end zone coaching tape from the previous weekend's game. Wednesday, they get their weekly evaluation from the league office and Anderson hosts a study session with Byron Boston and Jeff Lambert, two other officials who live in the area, and Houston-based replay official Tommy Moore.
Thursday, Anderson's crew has another conference call to discuss the past weekend's game. Then they meet Saturday for four hours to plan for the next day's game.
"It probably takes me a good eight to 10 hours between the TV tape and coaching tape to go through my own game," Anderson said. "Between last week's game and next week's game, I've probably got 25 hours a week of film study. I also tape four to five other games every week and go through those games and pick up unusual plays that the crew can benefit from."

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/2005_3841414/the-life-of-an-nfl-referee-walt-anderson-still-spe.html

What I don't get is the need to demonize one side or the other. "Oooooh! Unions are the boogeymen. A bunch of commie bastards trying to bring down America!" What a bunch of bs. I'm sure these same whiners don't tell their bosses they would rather not accept all the benefits that unions secured for them, like a forty hour week, time and a half for overtime, sick time, etc etc etc. Or, "Oooooooh, the rich owners are a bunch of greedy criminals trying to get everybody to work for nothing so they can build another mansion." That's just as much bs. Most owners live and die with their teams and consider themselves the caretakers of the traditions of the NFL. They are completely committed to the game.

Anyway, that's not the issue. This is what happens in an open, capitalist society. Labor and capital argue over the value of their prospective services. Capitalists prosper only because of labor, but labor would have a hard time finding employment without capital. So what's the right balance? Like I said, value is an arbitrary sum. The refs' union has the right to strike when they think their services are more valuable than what they're getting. Usually, when one labor group (like the players) get more value, then other groups within the same field (refs) want more as well. The owners should have looked at that fiasco on MNF and realized that maybe the labor the refs perform has more value than they think.

DenverBroncosJM
09-20-2012, 08:29 AM
Exactly they work part time, why everyone does not get this is beyond me..

$18.5 a year in teh future for a part time job is nothing to b**** about..

Now if they were full time guys and had NO other jobs I could see a small thing to whine about it..

But even $18,5 with investments as well as their other retirement s from their REAL jobs should keep most folks living in a pretty good life style..

This a great idea we should roll it out to all of America!

If you apply for a part time job and do not have another full time job we will pay you 10.00, if you have a full time job well heck you already make money we will pay 6.50.

Jesus some people are just plain stupid

Bacchus
09-20-2012, 08:39 AM
Spoken like a true publican who is probably poor and thinks making rich people even more rich will somehow benefit your life, lol. Talk about the walking brain washed, lol.

GET A CLUE - they rich don't like you, they don't care about you, they only care about your vote every 4 years and tell you a good story about how making them more rich will get you ahead. Wake up. They have China paying for adds because China wants the jobs they outsource. China wants a publican in office because they know we will go to war with somebody, which will get us in debt even more, make us more enemies, making us more weak int he long run, just what China wants.


Don't you see anything wrong with this picture? If you don't, you're already so far brain washed you have no hope.

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/chart-vulture-income-disparity.jpg

Repped for the truth. Many Millionaires and Billionairs have made their money by doing exactly what the NFL owners are doing. Destroying pensions. Romney has done this many times. He would go in to a company make them file bankruptancy and destroy the pensions that the employees had been building and he would walk away with millions. I am not mad at millionaires and billionaires who build something, who contribute to society. I just wish they would not make that money at our expense. When Romney was at Baine Capital he never built anything. He did not contributed to this society. All he has done is profited by tearingd own business and shipping them overseas.

Bacchus
09-20-2012, 08:40 AM
$100K per year for a PART time job? Good for you. Tell me what you do so I can get my wife to start doing it!

Only referees with 20 years or more experience make $100,000. The starting salary is $25,000

Play2win
09-20-2012, 09:30 AM
The refs are crucial to the quality (and integrity) of the game. That they have outside jobs is completely irrelevant. They have a job in the NFL and they should be compensated well for it. That, or we can stick with our 4-hour games and mysterious fumbles that go to the "Red" team and four timeouts and more injuries and etc. etc. etc.

Thats the thing that got me almost from the get-go-- pissed me off as much as the fumble or anything else-- the "red" team.

WTF.

Amateurish as hell-- right to the bone.

Play2win
09-20-2012, 09:33 AM
**** these greedy ass refs! They all have regular day jobs and a few hours of work 1 day a week 5-6 months out of the year does not require anything more than the owners offer. Being a ref is a recreational activity not a real job

The players are the greedy one when it comes to the NFL, and its not even close.

Inkana7
09-20-2012, 09:56 AM
The players are the greedy one when it comes to the NFL, and its not even close.

Yeah I can't believe the way they try to get as much as they can during their pain-filled 3-10 year careers ending in brain damage.

2KBack
09-20-2012, 10:29 AM
If being compensated according to ones value is greed, then we are all greedy. You don't pay someone based on the hours they work, you pay them based on the value of the role they fill.

I'd say it has become quite obvious how valuable these refs are

lonestar
09-20-2012, 10:54 AM
$100K per year for a PART time job? Good for you. Tell me what you do so I can get my wife to start doing it!

:thumbs:

while I know these guys spend more than 3 hours a week doing the job, most would not walk away from their full time job to become full time refs..

I saw a special on Houckli a few years ago and he equated the job with travel, workout time, film study and critique by the REF staff in NY to a 25-30 hour a week job..

Now I'd guess that most refs do not work out like ED does so maybe take 5 hours a week off of that total for them..

this does not factor in the overnite most of the time before the game or maybe after the game it it is a late game on the west coast.. or one of the games with a start time after 5 pm.

So while I understand this is not just a 3 hour per week job, sometime you as a company/corporation have budgets to be met and life is tough but these guys as far as I can see are paid well for what they do..

lonestar
09-20-2012, 11:05 AM
Same with the refs:

After Anderson's third year in the NFL, the league sent him to NFL Europe to audition as a referee.
He did so well that he realized he couldn't keep up full-time careers as a dentist and a football official.
"My company (Anderson Dental in Sugar Land) was a big group practice, with 45 employees and 13 doctors," he said. "I realized there was no way I could do justice to both, so I sold the practice. If I was going to have the opportunity to be an NFL referee, I wanted to do it in what I felt was the right way."
The "right way" takes time and equipment. Some might try to scrape by with, say, a satellite dish, a few cable boxes and four VCRs; Anderson has four dishes, each linked to a TiVo hard-disc recorder, eight VCRs and a computer with video-editing capability.
"A lot of the guys kid Mike Pereira (the NFL's director of officiating) that `Walt's got better equipment than you do,' " Anderson said, laughing.
Like every NFL official, Anderson receives a DVD of the game he has just worked before leaving the stadium each Sunday. He reviews the game on the plane ride back to Houston, e-mails his thoughts to crew members on Monday and presides over the first of two weekly conference calls that night.
Tuesday, each official receives sideline and end zone coaching tape from the previous weekend's game. Wednesday, they get their weekly evaluation from the league office and Anderson hosts a study session with Byron Boston and Jeff Lambert, two other officials who live in the area, and Houston-based replay official Tommy Moore.
Thursday, Anderson's crew has another conference call to discuss the past weekend's game. Then they meet Saturday for four hours to plan for the next day's game.
"It probably takes me a good eight to 10 hours between the TV tape and coaching tape to go through my own game," Anderson said. "Between last week's game and next week's game, I've probably got 25 hours a week of film study. I also tape four to five other games every week and go through those games and pick up unusual plays that the crew can benefit from."

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/2005_3841414/the-life-of-an-nfl-referee-walt-anderson-still-spe.html

What I don't get is the need to demonize one side or the other. "Oooooh! Unions are the boogeymen. A bunch of commie bastards trying to bring down America!" What a bunch of bs. I'm sure these same whiners don't tell their bosses they would rather not accept all the benefits that unions secured for them, like a forty hour week, time and a half for overtime, sick time, etc etc etc. Or, "Oooooooh, the rich owners are a bunch of greedy criminals trying to get everybody to work for nothing so they can build another mansion." That's just as much bs. Most owners live and die with their teams and consider themselves the caretakers of the traditions of the NFL. They are completely committed to the game.

Anyway, that's not the issue. This is what happens in an open, capitalist society. Labor and capital argue over the value of their prospective services. Capitalists prosper only because of labor, but labor would have a hard time finding employment without capital. So what's the right balance? Like I said, value is an arbitrary sum. The refs' union has the right to strike when they think their services are more valuable than what they're getting. Usually, when one labor group (like the players) get more value, then other groups within the same field (refs) want more as well. The owners should have looked at that fiasco on MNF and realized that maybe the labor the refs perform has more value than they think.

a great post until you became a union rep..

IIRC the forty hour work week is a federal law, as is over time.

While the UNION were needed a hundred years ago the feds have stepped in to make right the egregious policies that exploited workers a VERY LONG time ago.. there are mine safety laws, work place safety OHSA.

and while health care is not one of those areas YET No ONE in the US or at least in Texas is denied seeing a doctor or getting treatment in a hospital if they do not have insurance..

Now I'm not sure about what it is like in Colorado or Lalaland where you live, that is how it is here..


IMO Unions have out lived there usefulness and are nothing but blood suckers that live off the workers backs..

Now if you live in India or China that may be different and yes they need them but not in the USA..

DBroncos4life
09-20-2012, 11:19 AM
If being compensated according to ones value is greed, then we are all greedy. You don't pay someone based on the hours they work, you pay them based on the value of the role they fill.

I'd say it has become quite obvious how valuable these refs are

That is why you can't get a order right at a fast food joint.

errand
09-20-2012, 11:33 AM
Players are part time employees too. When players go after a piece of the pie, everybody says, "Fine. They deserve it." After Monday night, nobody can deny that competent refs are a big part of the entertainment package. Value is completely arbitrary and subjective. IMO, MNF proved the value of good refs. Pay 'em.

While I have no problem with a person of superior talent making more than those of lesser talent, I also have no problem with an employer only paying fair market value for the services of those talented people.

This past game did show that the old refs everyone bitched about made fewer bad calls than their replacements did....but the owners aren't the only ones who need to compromise on the issues they have. The refs are compensated quite handsomely for the quality of work they produce.

Ed Hoculi called a fumble an incomplete pass and it cost the Chargers a game....the real refs said Vinny Testeverde's head crossing the plane of the goal line was a touchdown for the Jets....the real refs blew so many calls that we have instant replay now, lest everyone forget how "great" they were.

I recall a lot of people on here that are bitching about the labor dispute with those refs were bitching about how bad they were when they were working the games the past several seasons.

errand
09-20-2012, 11:43 AM
That is why you can't get a order right at a fast food joint.

You think paying them more will improve the quality of service? think about all the bad calls the "real" refs have made over the years....hell, they're why the league had to go to instant replay.

The Patriots first NFL title was made possible by these "better" refs blowing a fumble call vs. Raiders....they have made many bad calls, and phantom calls....calls that most on here have bitched about and now everyone thinks they deserve a raise?

DBroncos4life
09-20-2012, 11:47 AM
While I have no problem with a person of superior talent making more than those of lesser talent, I also have no problem with an employer only paying fair market value for the services of those talented people.

This past game did show that the old refs everyone b****ed about made fewer bad calls than their replacements did....but the owners aren't the only ones who need to compromise on the issues they have. The refs are compensated quite handsomely for the quality of work they produce.

Ed Hoculi called a fumble an incomplete pass and it cost the Chargers a game....the real refs said Vinny Testeverde's head crossing the plane of the goal line was a touchdown for the Jets....the real refs blew so many calls that we have instant replay now, lest everyone forget how "great" they were.

I recall a lot of people on here that are b****ing about the labor dispute with those refs were b****ing about how bad they were when they were working the games the past several seasons.
Lets put this in a way you will understand.

Regular refs are like Manning playing QB.
Replacement refs are like Tebow playing QB.

DBroncos4life
09-20-2012, 11:49 AM
You think paying them more will improve the quality of service? think about all the bad calls the "real" refs have made over the years....hell, they're why the league had to go to instant replay.

The Patriots first NFL title was made possible by these "better" refs blowing a fumble call vs. Raiders....they have made many bad calls, and phantom calls....calls that most on here have b****ed about and now everyone thinks they deserve a raise?

No paying more keeps quality people from quitting. Are you sure you own a business?

errand
09-20-2012, 11:52 AM
Yeah I can't believe the way they try to get as much as they can during their pain-filled 3-10 year careers ending in brain damage.

Imagine that, college educated men paid hundreds of thousands to even hundreds of million dollars that don't know slamming their 250-300 lb bodies into each other might lead to concussions, broken bones, torn ligaments and muscles, and cause long term problems later in life.

Sorry no sympathy from me.....it's not like they had no prior experience with the "pain" prior to signing their NFL contracts (pee wee, middle school, high school and college ball)

BTW, it doesn't hurt the owners if they pay the refs or the players more...it hurts US the fans as the owners will just raise your ticket prices and souvenier prices, and parking and concession prices to make up for it.....but nobody ever thinks maybe they want to keep OUR costs down as well, but whatever.....

Jekyll15Hyde
09-20-2012, 11:57 AM
Same with the refs:

After Anderson's third year in the NFL, the league sent him to NFL Europe to audition as a referee.
He did so well that he realized he couldn't keep up full-time careers as a dentist and a football official.
"My company (Anderson Dental in Sugar Land) was a big group practice, with 45 employees and 13 doctors," he said. "I realized there was no way I could do justice to both, so I sold the practice. If I was going to have the opportunity to be an NFL referee, I wanted to do it in what I felt was the right way."
The "right way" takes time and equipment. Some might try to scrape by with, say, a satellite dish, a few cable boxes and four VCRs; Anderson has four dishes, each linked to a TiVo hard-disc recorder, eight VCRs and a computer with video-editing capability.
"A lot of the guys kid Mike Pereira (the NFL's director of officiating) that `Walt's got better equipment than you do,' " Anderson said, laughing.
Like every NFL official, Anderson receives a DVD of the game he has just worked before leaving the stadium each Sunday. He reviews the game on the plane ride back to Houston, e-mails his thoughts to crew members on Monday and presides over the first of two weekly conference calls that night.
Tuesday, each official receives sideline and end zone coaching tape from the previous weekend's game. Wednesday, they get their weekly evaluation from the league office and Anderson hosts a study session with Byron Boston and Jeff Lambert, two other officials who live in the area, and Houston-based replay official Tommy Moore.
Thursday, Anderson's crew has another conference call to discuss the past weekend's game. Then they meet Saturday for four hours to plan for the next day's game.
"It probably takes me a good eight to 10 hours between the TV tape and coaching tape to go through my own game," Anderson said. "Between last week's game and next week's game, I've probably got 25 hours a week of film study. I also tape four to five other games every week and go through those games and pick up unusual plays that the crew can benefit from."

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/2005_3841414/the-life-of-an-nfl-referee-walt-anderson-still-spe.html

What I don't get is the need to demonize one side or the other. "Oooooh! Unions are the boogeymen. A bunch of commie bastards trying to bring down America!" What a bunch of bs. I'm sure these same whiners don't tell their bosses they would rather not accept all the benefits that unions secured for them, like a forty hour week, time and a half for overtime, sick time, etc etc etc. Or, "Oooooooh, the rich owners are a bunch of greedy criminals trying to get everybody to work for nothing so they can build another mansion." That's just as much bs. Most owners live and die with their teams and consider themselves the caretakers of the traditions of the NFL. They are completely committed to the game.

Anyway, that's not the issue. This is what happens in an open, capitalist society. Labor and capital argue over the value of their prospective services. Capitalists prosper only because of labor, but labor would have a hard time finding employment without capital. So what's the right balance? Like I said, value is an arbitrary sum. The refs' union has the right to strike when they think their services are more valuable than what they're getting. Usually, when one labor group (like the players) get more value, then other groups within the same field (refs) want more as well. The owners should have looked at that fiasco on MNF and realized that maybe the labor the refs perform has more value than they think.

This is an excellent explanation of simple supply and demand for labor. At the end of the day, it isn't more complicated than this.

errand
09-20-2012, 11:59 AM
No paying more keeps quality people from quitting. Are you sure you own a business?

I agree that the worker who produces higher quality should be compensated for doing so more than those that do not produce as high a quality ...but there will always be a point where the quality of their work reaches it's terminal position.

Eventually you realize that the pay keeps increasing but the production doesn't...and that's where the employee (worker) ends up pricing himself out of the job market. Why would you pay someone $25 an hour if their quality of work is no better than the other guy who is making $18?

How much would you pay the best fry cook at a fast food restaurant? Because when a businesses expenses go up, so do the prices for those goods and services.....so guess who actually ends up paying for them?

If the NFL owners said they'd give the refs everything they've asked for...in fact even more, BUT you the fan would have to pay 20% more for tickets, concessions and parking, etc....what would you say then?

errand
09-20-2012, 12:01 PM
Lets put this in a way you will understand.

Regular refs are like Manning playing QB.
Replacement refs are like Tebow playing QB.

Oh, well...since you put it like that....pay them. LOL

errand
09-20-2012, 12:06 PM
LMAO... how do you come up with the fatc that a MAJORITY of officials are doctors and lawyers?

How many janitors did you see officiating games? It's not like the clerk from 7/11 is moonlighting as an NFL ref...

errand
09-20-2012, 12:13 PM
Yeah **** these guys! Anyone can do their jobs anyways!

Maybe not as well....but yeah.

If not, then why did you guys bitch about the calls they've made all these past several years?

How many blown calls are now infamous? the tuck rule that propelled the Patriots to their first SB title...the blown call of Doug Williams fumble in SBXXII that cost the Broncos a sure TD as Rulon Jones headed towards the end zone with Broncos up 10-0 already....watching Vinny Tesateverde's helmet cross the goal line and calling it a TD when the ball was a yard short?

you do realize that the NFL owners, players, coaches and fans were so frustrated by the numerous bad calls these "real refs" made that they decided to install instant replay right?

lonestar
09-20-2012, 12:15 PM
While I have no problem with a person of superior talent making more than those of lesser talent, I also have no problem with an employer only paying fair market value for the services of those talented people.

This past game did show that the old refs everyone b****ed about made fewer bad calls than their replacements did....but the owners aren't the only ones who need to compromise on the issues they have. The refs are compensated quite handsomely for the quality of work they produce.

Ed Hoculi called a fumble an incomplete pass and it cost the Chargers a game....the real refs said Vinny Testeverde's head crossing the plane of the goal line was a touchdown for the Jets....the real refs blew so many calls that we have instant replay now, lest everyone forget how "great" they were.

I recall a lot of people on here that are b****ing about the labor dispute with those refs were b****ing about how bad they were when they were working the games the past several seasons.


:thumbs:

greatest part of the post I also have no problem with an employer only paying fair market value for the services of those talented people.

lonestar
09-20-2012, 12:17 PM
Maybe not as well....but yeah.

If not, then why did you guys b**** about the calls they've made all these past several years?

How many blown calls are now infamous? the tuck rule that propelled the Patriots to their first SB title...the blown call of Doug Williams fumble in SBXXII that cost the Broncos a sure TD as Rulon Jones headed towards the end zone with Broncos up 10-0 already....watching Vinny Tesateverde's helmet cross the goal line and calling it a TD when the ball was a yard short?

you do realize that the NFL owners, players, coaches and fans were so frustrated by the numerous bad calls these "real refs" made that they decided to install instant replay right?

just think they could have had the millions of dollars a year that has been spent on IP had they not screwed up those calls..

sounds like cause and effect..

errand
09-20-2012, 12:25 PM
Spoken like a true publican who is probably poor and thinks making rich people even more rich will somehow benefit your life, lol. Talk about the walking brain washed, lol.

GET A CLUE - they rich don't like you, they don't care about you, they only care about your vote every 4 years and tell you a good story about how making them more rich will get you ahead. Wake up. They have China paying for adds because China wants the jobs they outsource. China wants a publican in office because they know we will go to war with somebody, which will get us in debt even more, make us more enemies, making us more weak int he long run, just what China wants.


Don't you see anything wrong with this picture? If you don't, you're already so far brain washed you have no hope.

http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/chart-vulture-income-disparity.jpg

so please enlighten me how "sticking it to the rich" improves my quality of life?

2KBack
09-20-2012, 02:16 PM
That is why you can't get a order right at a fast food joint.

That ****'s hard, there are like 3 sizes and so many toppings

Play2win
09-20-2012, 02:28 PM
Yeah I can't believe the way they try to get as much as they can during their pain-filled 3-10 year careers ending in brain damage.

Then don't play the game, it's their choice.

Play2win
09-20-2012, 02:29 PM
Lets put this in a way you will understand.

Regular refs are like Manning playing QB.
Replacement refs are like Tebow playing QB.

Hilarious!

Garcia Bronco
09-20-2012, 03:00 PM
If it breaks down to 3.2 million per year (i.e. 100k per 32 teams)....do think money is the issue?

milehighJC
09-20-2012, 04:17 PM
How can this thread not be in the Butt yet? Class warfare at its finest. The owners are greedy scum. The refs are petulant leeches.

I think we need a congressional hearing on this problem. Its clearly important, and nobody would be better equipped to solve this horrendous national problem than our honorable leaders in Washington. Maybe even an inquiry? Wait... an executive order - yeah thats it.

Rev up the presses, print up enough money to buy the NFL, and have the government run it. Then we would be alright. They would pay the regular refs, provide their healthcare, and provide a lucrative pension for all. Why just have Obamacare when you can have Obamaball? :)

I think the product has suffered too, but this is hardly the end of the world. If we dont like the product, we shouldnt buy it. Dont go to the games. Dont watch it on TV. Dont buy the merchandise. NFL football isnt an entitlement, its a game. Its a business. Its entertainment.

As for me, I dont like the replacement refs either. If I were an NFL owner, I think by now I would be embarrassed enough to belly up to the bar and give them what they want. But Im not, and its not my money. So I get to make the choice with what I do with MY money... not much else. For what its worth, I still plan on going to the games, watching it on TV, and hoping that either the labor dispute gets resolved, or the replacement guys get better.

Bacchus
09-20-2012, 04:26 PM
so please enlighten me how "sticking it to the rich" improves my quality of life?

It is not "Sticking it to the rich" it is called having them pay their fair share. Why should Mitt Romney pay less of a percentage in taxes than us average Joes?

The whole thing about America is that it is a country where anyone can make it. And if you do make it you hold the door open for the next person.

ant1999e
09-20-2012, 06:10 PM
Spoken like a true publican who is probably poor and thinks making rich people even more rich will somehow benefit your life, lol. Talk about the walking brain washed, lol.

GET A CLUE - they rich don't like you, they don't care about you, they only care about your vote every 4 years and tell you a good story about how making them more rich will get you ahead. Wake up. They have China paying for adds because China wants the jobs they outsource. China wants a publican in office because they know we will go to war with somebody, which will get us in debt even more, make us more enemies, making us more weak int he long run, just what China wants.

I'm jest a pore redneck and don't much inderstand thems fancy charts.

Jekyll15Hyde
09-20-2012, 06:29 PM
so please enlighten me how "sticking it to the rich" improves my quality of life?

You should be a student of history and read up on what seems to correlate with extreme levels of concentration of wealth, or more specifically what happens after the concentration reaches extreme levels.

I'll give you a hint... The 2 highest level in modern history were 1928 and 1999.
Edit: Now that I look, 2006 was higher than 1999. But it only adds to the point.

It doesnt mean that you need to stick it to the rich but there is a "healthy" level of wealth distribution and, right now at least, we arent at a healthy level.

Rock Chalk
09-20-2012, 06:44 PM
I agree. I have friends whose employers keep their weekly houts at 38 a week so they don't qualify as full time and cant qualify for benefits. A few hours 1 day a week is not deserving of any type of pension or benefits

Way to completely misconstrue it.

This isn't their full time job. These refs have full time jobs. They just do this on the side.

I have a full time job, I get paid benefits on that full time job.

I also do jobs on the side. I do not get paid benefits for that side work.

Officiating is a ****ing side job. Its not a full time job. These assholes have full time jobs. Where they have benefits and pensions and all that ****.

errand
09-20-2012, 08:20 PM
It is not "Sticking it to the rich" it is called having them pay their fair share. Why should Mitt Romney pay less of a percentage in taxes than us average Joes?

The whole thing about America is that it is a country where anyone can make it. And if you do make it you hold the door open for the next person.


I'm more concerned with what Barack is doing with my money than what Mitt Romney is doing with his own. So again, please enlighten me how raising taxes on the rich helps me out? Is the government going to reduce my taxes by the same percentage they raise theirs?

and you're right, America is a country where anyone can make it.....too bad you clowns want equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity

BTW, fair share means everyone pays the same % right? OK, then let's change the tax law to a flat rate of say 10 or 15% that rich, middle class and poor pay....wouldn't that be fair? If not, then perhaps we should petition Webster's to change the definition of the word "fair"

errand
09-20-2012, 08:22 PM
You should be a student of history and read up on what seems to correlate with extreme levels of concentration of wealth, or more specifically what happens after the concentration reaches extreme levels.

I'll give you a hint... The 2 highest level in modern history were 1928 and 1999.
Edit: Now that I look, 2006 was higher than 1999. But it only adds to the point.

It doesnt mean that you need to stick it to the rich but there is a "healthy" level of wealth distribution and, right now at least, we arent at a healthy level.


OK, then please send me my healthy share of your wealth

Bacchus
09-20-2012, 10:59 PM
I'm more concerned with what Barack is doing with my money than what Mitt Romney is doing with his own. So again, please enlighten me how raising taxes on the rich helps me out? Is the government going to reduce my taxes by the same percentage they raise theirs?

and you're right, America is a country where anyone can make it.....too bad you clowns want equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity

BTW, fair share means everyone pays the same % right? OK, then let's change the tax law to a flat rate of say 10 or 15% that rich, middle class and poor pay....wouldn't that be fair? If not, then perhaps we should petition Webster's to change the definition of the word "fair"

You're the ****ing clown you stupid god damn ****ing moron. Piss ****ing loser ****nut **********.:twokisses

Yeah a flat tax rate would be much more fair than what it is now with people making a million or more paying ZERO in taxes. And I can enlighten you on how if the rich paid more money in taxes it would make your life easier because the U.S. would have more revenue coming in. More money to pay the debt. more money for roads, bridges, mass transit etc. More money for all the wars the Republicans want to start. The fact is this country was at it's healthiest when Clinton was President and the unemployment was 4.5% and he had the budget balanced. That was done with a higher tax rate for everyone.

ZONA
09-21-2012, 12:06 AM
I'm more concerned with what Barack is doing with my money than what Mitt Romney is doing with his own. So again, please enlighten me how raising taxes on the rich helps me out? Is the government going to reduce my taxes by the same percentage they raise theirs?

and you're right, America is a country where anyone can make it.....too bad you clowns want equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity

BTW, fair share means everyone pays the same % right? OK, then let's change the tax law to a flat rate of say 10 or 15% that rich, middle class and poor pay....wouldn't that be fair? If not, then perhaps we should petition Webster's to change the definition of the word "fair"

Well nobody was calling anybody names until you just called us clowns. Pubes usually resort to that stuff so I'll let it fly. See, you all think it's redistribution, you get hung up on some fantasy that it's robin hood out here steeling gold from rich people and giving it to the poor. But what you don't seem to understand is how the rich got all that gold. They cheated the poor to get alot of it. Billion dollar oil companies who not only pay lower tax then teachers, but they use tax loop hole after loop hole. They pay millions to buy off politicians but that saves them billions. How about Bush faking documents in order to go to war with Iraq because he wanted to finish what his father didn't, and to give his rich buddies all contracts over there. How much did they make, and how much did it cost us tax payers for that war? Talk about redistribution. The rich redistribute more wealth in their favor compared to what any safety net does for the poor, and it's not even close. And I'm talking about some of the rich people, the crooked ones. There are plenty of rich people who don't take advantage of people. So we're not "ganging" up on rich people. We just want to point out that the rich people who proclaim making the rich even more rich is the best thing for America. And why does Romney have a factory in China? What's wrong with having a factory here? Why does he have all his money in offshore accounts, um maybe so he doesn't have to report how much he makes in interest. Otherwise he would have shown his tax returns for several years. No matter. He's lost this election already and taking many of the Senate and House seats with him. The Grand Old Party has alot of changing to do. Think about it, at their RNC this year, they did not invite Bush, Chaney, Tom DeLay and Sarah Palin. That speaks volumes about how people viewed the previous administration as well as several other key Republican leaders. And don't take this as a rip on the party in itself. I know many fine outstanding people who are repubs. It's the party leaders over the years that have been nothing short of thieves.

hambone13
09-21-2012, 12:23 AM
This is an excellent explanation of simple supply and demand for labor. At the end of the day, it isn't more complicated than this.

This x infinity. We're still watching.

errand
09-21-2012, 08:29 PM
Yeah a flat tax rate would be much more fair than what it is now with people making a million or more paying ZERO in taxes. And I can enlighten you on how if the rich paid more money in taxes it would make your life easier because the U.S. would have more revenue coming in. More money to pay the debt. more money for roads, bridges, mass transit etc. More money for all the wars the Republicans want to start. The fact is this country was at it's healthiest when Clinton was President and the unemployment was 4.5% and he had the budget balanced. That was done with a higher tax rate for everyone.

The only way the government can increase the quality of my life is to get the **** out of my life, and let me keep more of my hard earned money....raising the taxes on the rich doesn't do that.

Bacchus
09-21-2012, 08:47 PM
The only way the government can increase the quality of my life is to get the **** out of my life, and let me keep more of my hard earned money....raising the taxes on the rich doesn't do that.

You enjoy nice roads? You enjoy safe bridges to cross? All that comes from Taxes dummy. Right now the Gov is not bringing in enough taxes. Taxes are at an all time low in the last 100 years! The country is in decline and that is because we are not brining in enough revenue. Police, teachers, Student loans, miliatry benefits are all paid on taxes, and Dammit they are worth th money.

We need to legalize POT while were at it!!:blueflame

EDIT: Romney releases 2011 taxes and he paid 14%, much lower than I paid.

Jekyll15Hyde
09-21-2012, 10:27 PM
OK, then please send me my healthy share of your wealth

And you have failed your history class. Is it just an inability to deductively reason or are you just a Great Depression denier?

I didn't know you have found a way to become immune from the macroeconomic environment. You should have told us you were a trust fund baby. :notworthy