PDA

View Full Version : We were outcoached and the refs sucked


Kaylore
09-17-2012, 09:19 PM
I'm not going to put lipstick on a pig. We had a bad game. Manning played his worst first quarter of his career. Stokely and DT had drops and refs were downright crooked. Honestly we're a bunch of phantom calls and a better game away from dominating these guys.

They had four turnovers and 13 points to show for it and we're a better safety away from getting some key stops.

My thoughts:


The front office doesn't want to punt on Moore. They are determined to sell us he's good. He is not.
None of the RB's except Hillman are a threat to take one the distance. They also aren't seeing some big cutback lanes.
I hated our game plan early. It's like they just decided to mail it in with the no huddle. They should have huddled and gone to a quick count. Nolan definitely confused Manning and we should have run the ball a lot more than we did. It was annoying.
I think there will be some games like this especially early in the season where Manning struggles to find his rhythm. It's part of the growing pains.
We're probably going to be ok. Even though some fools are saying this was a "must win" it was against an NFC team in a place they almost never lose. We can rebound from this.

Swedish Extrovert
09-17-2012, 09:21 PM
I'm not going to put lipstick on a pig. We had a bad game. Manning played his worst fourth quarter of his career. Stokely and DT had drops and refs were downright crooked. Honestly we're a bunch of phantom calls and a better game away from dominating these guys.

They had four turnovers and 13 points to show for it and we're a better safety away from getting some key stops.

My thoughts:


The front office doesn't want to punt on Moore. They are determined to sell us he's good. He is not.
None of the RB's except Hillman are a threat to take one the distance. They also aren't seeing some big cutback lanes.
I hated our game plan early. It's like they just decided to mail it in with the no huddle. They should have huddled and gone to a quick count. Nolan definitely confused Manning and we should have run the ball a lot more than we did. It was annoying.
I think there will be some games like this especially early in the season where Manning struggles to find his rhythm. It's part of the growing pains.
We're probably going to be ok. Even though some fools are saying this was a "must win" it was against an NFC team in a place they almost never lose. We can rebound from this.

That last point is spot on.

chickennob2
09-17-2012, 09:21 PM
Think Philly wants a take-back on Asante Samuel? Dude was great tonight.

spdirty
09-17-2012, 09:22 PM
You mean his worst first quarter of his career, right?

errand
09-17-2012, 09:23 PM
1-1 after 2 games....yeah we should hit the panic button.

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2012, 09:24 PM
Great post. I am not discouraged from tonight.

oubronco
09-17-2012, 09:25 PM
We played a bad first half and a decent second half but the Refs were atrocious the league has got to get this straightened out

24champ
09-17-2012, 09:25 PM
Moore isn't the sole problem, the entire secondary looked lost.

JDR isn't doing a good job coaching these guys up, Porter and Adams looked confused at the end. Doom disappeared tonight.

Kaylore
09-17-2012, 09:25 PM
You mean his worst first quarter of his career, right?

Yes. Sorry.

Rolandftw
09-17-2012, 09:26 PM
My only objection was the deep passes with Manning. At this time, I have no confidence that's a strong part of his game.. so why do it three different times? I think two of them weren't even remotely close to receivers. If we have to go deep, would rather go sideline then the middle of the field

Not blaming Manning for the loss as it could have been mix-ups with WR's as well. We did pretty well, considering we gave them an early td basically with the first pick.

barryr
09-17-2012, 09:26 PM
Losing this game is not the end of the world. Atlanta is a good team and was at home. You can't turn it over 4 times on the road, with 10 penalties and win very often against a good team. The Broncos are still good enough to win this division, but they just don't have enough playmakers on either side of the ball to get far in the playoffs I'm afraid.

Kid A
09-17-2012, 09:27 PM
Agree that a road game against NFC is far from "must win." Next two at home (Texans, Raiders) are going to be big, b/c it's on the road for 4 of the next 5 after that.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-17-2012, 09:27 PM
Thats a good team we lost to tonight, on their turf. We made a TON TON TON of mistakes, and had no help from the zebras tonight and we were right there. I wasn't concerned about Peyton's arm until tonight, i must admit. Felt like a lot of balls were sailing on him, even though he mixed in some strong throws there too. Hopefully they come out next week and play solid.

Rohirrim
09-17-2012, 09:28 PM
Nolan's scheme had even Gruden confused.

theAPAOps5
09-17-2012, 09:28 PM
I was encouraged they overcame the hole they dug and the refs helped fortify. Let's be honest the refs had nothing to do with the 4 turn overs. But the refs were **** tonight. They ****ed us and even ****ed Atlanta by giving us college rule penalties.

The ginger, and therefor soulless, commissioner should be fired for this crap.

Agamemnon
09-17-2012, 09:28 PM
I don't know if I'd say we got out-coached. When your QB and RB give up the ball four times in the first half, and you force no turnovers to compensate, you are expected to lose in this league. I think people know that I am more than willing to call out Fox and company when they suck, but in this game no amount of coaching is going to make a -4 TO differential go away.

Swedish Extrovert
09-17-2012, 09:29 PM
My only objection was the deep passes with Manning. At this time, I have no confidence that's a strong part of his game.. so why do it three different times? I think two of them weren't even remotely close to receivers. If we have to go deep, would rather go sideline then the middle of the field

Not blaming Manning for the loss as it could have been mix-ups with WR's as well. We did pretty well, considering we gave them an early td basically with the first pick.

A couple of those picks were Manning's fault - disguised coverage and great defensive play calling by Nolan.

Rohirrim
09-17-2012, 09:31 PM
I didn't hear Derek Wolfe's name get mentioned once tonight. Dumervil got stuffed all night long by Baker. They double teamed Von all night and he still made the big play of the game for the D. The D did a solid job against the run. Sometimes, the other guys win. ???

broncswin
09-17-2012, 09:31 PM
D played damn good...good time for manning to have this game ...early in the season, NFC team, on the road. Nice to see him get into form late and see this team fight back in a harsh environment. Big game next Sunday!!! Lots of positives to take from this...its not like we just lost to the cardinals at home.

Agamemnon
09-17-2012, 09:31 PM
Moore isn't the sole problem, the entire secondary looked lost.

JDR isn't doing a good job coaching these guys up, Porter and Adams looked confused at the end. Doom disappeared tonight.

Yet Ryan only passed for 219 yards on 36 attempts. There seems to be a disconnect going on here. It's almost like Bronco fans are so used to terrible defense that they see it even when it's not actually there.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-17-2012, 09:32 PM
I didn't hear Derek Wolfe's name get mentioned once tonight. Dumervil got stuffed all night long by Baker. They double teamed Von all night and he still made the big play of the game for the D. The D did a solid job against the run. Sometimes, the other guys win. ???

Why do we rarely blitz and let them double team von.

GreatBronco16
09-17-2012, 09:32 PM
I'm not discouraged one bit. Atlanta confused the entire offense in the first half. Props to them cause it won't happen again. This offense is a work in progress, and by the later half of the year will probably be kicking in full gear. I thought the defense played pretty damn good considering the hole the offense put them in, in the first half.

All in all, Denver was still in the game at the end even with all the screw ups on our side and with the refs. So that makes me feel better.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-17-2012, 09:32 PM
Yet Ryan only passed for 219 yards on 36 attempts. There seems to be a disconnect going on here. It's almost like Bronco fans are so used to terrible defense that they see it even when it's not actually there.

I have to agree. We are scapegoating the secondary tonight.

Agamemnon
09-17-2012, 09:33 PM
My only objection was the deep passes with Manning. At this time, I have no confidence that's a strong part of his game.. so why do it three different times? I think two of them weren't even remotely close to receivers. If we have to go deep, would rather go sideline then the middle of the field

Not blaming Manning for the loss as it could have been mix-ups with WR's as well. We did pretty well, considering we gave them an early td basically with the first pick.

When a QB throws three interceptions I think it's fair to blame him for a loss. I mean if you are going to credit Manning for the Pitt win last week, it's only fair. Hopefully the guy bounce back and has more games like week 1, and no more games like week 2.

jutang
09-17-2012, 09:34 PM
Positives
Colquitt continues to be one of the best punters in the AFC
Miller is beasting... 3 rd down sack was clutch
Mcgahee showing little signs of slowing down
Run d was excellent
We should have never been in this game after 4 TOs... Defense did its job to slow down Atlanta.

Negative
Offense went through its growing pains
Dumervil being quiet for the past 2 weeks without any double teams is concerning
Replacement refs

Despite the immense 1st quarter suckitude... If manning gets the ball back, I bet most of us here would expect Denver to pull off a win in an incredibly tough place to play.

Rohirrim
09-17-2012, 09:34 PM
Why do we rarely blitz and let them double team von.

We were having a tough enough time with their receivers as it was. Sending a CB or S would have probably resulted in the kind of big play that goes to the house. I think Del Rio was just trying to keep everything in front of the D.

Drunken.Broncoholic
09-17-2012, 09:34 PM
Yet Ryan only passed for 219 yards on 36 attempts. There seems to be a disconnect going on here. It's almost like Bronco fans are so used to terrible defense that they see it even when it's not actually there.

Ryan had short fields almost the entire game. He didn't need a 300 yard performance. I agree with you that coaches werent out coached. That challenge of 12 men was confusing. He got some bad info on that. Had decker hauled in that one post pass it would've been a different story. Lots of what ifs in this game. Along with ref stupidity. I feel better that it ended up 27-21 and not 34-7

Bacchus
09-17-2012, 09:34 PM
I'm not seeing the outcoached part. Unless you are saying Peyton is the coach. Take away the three Ints that were all Peyton's fault and this team wins.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-17-2012, 09:35 PM
We were having a tough enough time with their receivers as it was. Sending a CB or S would have probably resulted in the kind of big play that goes to the house. I think Del Rio was just trying to keep everything in front of the D.

It'd be nice to try it. We've barely done it in 2 games.

Hulamau
09-17-2012, 09:36 PM
Yep agree Kaylore,
This was the kind of FUBAR that was bound to happen with an all new QB and and with Manning not playing for 600 days.. Yes he still has it, but he isn't a God and we were in foreign turf against a very good, and very well coached team.

The D played well against terrible odds .. Unlike KC which just Shiatt the bed across the board and didn't start their feeble comeback against the might Bills, until the Bills had gone into prevent 'Sleep mode' with a truly insurmountable lead.

We fought back and made a game of it on both sides of the ball being down 20-7 in the fourth quarter. Ten of those points gift-wrapped for Atlanta by the Scrub refs...
Had they not made that terrible PI call on Tony Carter they had to punt instead of going on to score that TD on a totally gassed Defense at that point who had to take it hard when they stop them on 3rd down only to have the refs had it to Atlanta.

Anyway, none of that would have mattered had we not had 4 TOs in the first half...

Good news is that will NOT happen every game. I suspect it wont happen again for a very long time. We played a potent Offense in their home opener with a veyr loud crowd and still lose by only 6 points.

This will only make them more hungry. I said befoer teh start of the season I would be very happy with splitting the first 6 games before the by and by then we should really be starting to gel as a total team and Manning will be hitting on all cylinders more consistently. He has to have a chance to screw up sometimes too after al lteh time hes been sidelined.

Im not discouraged at all. Wish they had been better prepared to play lights out, but in a way this might have been the best thing for them at this point. Refocus their resolve and not get the swell head that " Since we have Manning this is gonna be a cake walk" mentality. The press will no doubt bury us in teh middle of the pack again and thats fine. WOrk our way back up starting against the Texans at home and Chokeland.. take it to NE and SD as well befoer teh bye. Efen of we are 3-3 at the Bye we still have a great chance of making real run the last 10 games and winning 7 or 8 of those and winning the division.

So this wasn't and isn't some must win game. If this helps knock the rust off then so be it!

Lycan
09-17-2012, 09:36 PM
I was encouraged they overcame the hole they dug and the refs helped fortify. Let's be honest the refs had nothing to do with the 4 turn overs. But the refs were **** tonight. They ****ed us and even ****ed Atlanta by giving us college rule penalties.

The ginger, and therefor soulless, commissioner should be fired for this crap.

Actually, I still am not clear on why they gave them the ball on the fumble.

Our guy fell on it, a crowd piles on, another of our guys comes out with it.

Falcons ball. Makes complete sense, in scab-ref land.

razorwire77
09-17-2012, 09:37 PM
My thoughts (going to avoid the obvious ref sucking):

Willis McGahee is still an absolute stud. His jump cut, his pad level everything was excellent.

Decker has trouble getting separation down the field. You can compensate if you're really cerebral and run great routes, but several of Eric's routes were downright terrible.

Run defense was stout for most of the game. Von Miller is Von Miller. That double team spin sack was redeculez.

I'm really disappointed with Doom. Single coverage against an average (generously) tackle and he was invisible for 90 percent of the game.

2012 Peyton Manning saw a couple of throws that 2005 Peyton Manning used to be able to make. Unfortunately, it ain't 2005 and the Falcons made him play.

Look forward to Moreno being deactivated next week.

Raheem Moore, man. . .I want to like you. . . I really want to like you. . . The bobbled pick, the blown assignments. . . I really want to like you. . . .But I'm starting to develop a Dre Bly type dislike for you.

All game thread hysteria (myself included), I'm somewhat encouraged by how the team closed the game. Overall, it was one of the more bizarre, momentum crushing, poorly officiated games I've seen. Bronco teams in the past would have packed it in after the 2nd pick (Oakland game) and gotten shelled by 40. This team fought back and almost overcame a -4 TO def on the road.

Rohirrim
09-17-2012, 09:37 PM
I can't believe the league officials are not going to come out tomorrow looking like the only guys left in the room when the **** hit the fan. That was an embarrassing product the league put on display tonight. They should be ashamed of themselves and settle this bs with the REAL officials before business ends tomorrow.

Bigdawg26
09-17-2012, 09:53 PM
I can't really blame Moore to much when Tony Carter got torched all night, and Doom is still no where to be found! I thought Moore had a decent game. He was up there and made tackles, although he had no real impact ont the game. Besides that the defense did pretty well considering the field position they had all game, and the refs sucked. I don't know how the Mareno fumble went to ATL. Tell me how a 6-5 320 pound tackle can fall on the ball and recover it, but somewhere they gave it to little because apparently a DB took it away from him??

enjolras
09-17-2012, 09:53 PM
This game turned on the Knowshon fumble. If he was even remotely competent. Even decent. Event a fifth round talent, this game would have turned out differently. Nevermind that the refs gave Atlanta the ball without a single Falcon actually even touching it.

That was the moment where everything hung in the balance and ultimately we just couldn't recover.

nyuk nyuk
09-17-2012, 09:55 PM
Great post. I am not discouraged from tonight.

1st Q mistakes did us in. Beyond that, we already knew our pass D has to improve.

TheChamp24
09-17-2012, 09:57 PM
I have a feeling the NFL just might cave to the refs and get them back, especially getting embarrassed like that on Monday Night.
Just so freakin inconsistent on the PI/illegal contact calls.

Also, the D played decent IMO. Think about it, they were asked to defend short fields most of the 1st half, and held their own for the most part. Had trouble defending the pass I think due to the offense not doing anything to help the defense out there.
Our run D is actually pretty solid.

Von Miller is a freakin beast.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-17-2012, 10:02 PM
The pass interference on Tony Carter that kept alive a touchdown drive was absolutely criminal.

Chris
09-17-2012, 10:04 PM
Positives

Our run defense has been excellent both games. We also prevent the big play on passes. I like where this D is headed. If only we had some LBs that could cover as well as they defend the run (Lavonte David fail).

Von Miller's effort on that 3rd down sack was one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. I think he twisted past one guy, jumped over another and then turned around to grab Ryan.

We stopped Jones and White for the most part, though Porter obviously blew it on that touchdown to White (was he expecting a safety to close the gap?).

The offense was able to come back the way it did. DT played really well and probably learned from that big endzone hit.

Dunno if you'd call it a positive but I think we pull another victory out of our asses without these replacement officials. They were laughably bad tonight and if I were John Fox I'd be filing a complaint with the league tonight.

Brandon Stokely and Willis McGahee are two of my favourite Broncos. I love the way they play.

Negatives

Dumervil was just a guy again. He needs to start making an impact. He seemed to just bull rush on every highlight they showed (I'm guilty of always watching Miller in live action). Two very big LTs these two games so maybe he'll do better against smaller guys. He's seriously underperforming.

We know the story with our LBs. We learned more about our safeties tonight. Kaylore pretty much covered it.

We're not fielding a runner with breakaway speed and that needs to change.

Other

You have to give full credit to Mike Nolan and the Falcons D. They were skittering around like bed bugs before the snap. They played well for three quarters.

Matt Ryan got the ball out extremely quickly and overall had an excellent game.

The Falcon o-line stoned our pass rush for the most part.

Where was Decker?

This was a game we really could have won with some room to breathe but, again, full credit to Nolan's D. They wanted it more off the bat. I'm hoping the team takes the positives and hits the Texans with full force, though I'm not overly optimistic.

Action
09-17-2012, 10:05 PM
The pass interference on Tony Carter that kept alive a touchdown drive was absolutely criminal.

I thought that was huge.

I'm not sure why the hate on Moore, he blew the Int but anyone outside of Ed Reed drops Ints. He didn't miss any tackles tonight from what I remember, which is a HUGE improvement over last year.

Hulamau
09-17-2012, 10:05 PM
Actually, I still am not clear on why they gave them the ball on the fumble.

Our guy fell on it, a crowd piles on, another of our guys comes out with it.

Falcons ball. Makes complete sense, in scab-ref land.

Its because they didn't bother to wait until Denver popped up with the ball and wanted to give it to the home team. They figured, 'since we have NO IDEA what we are doing out here, at least lets err on the side of the home team so we can make it out of here alive!'

That's about the size of it. Or the Tony Carter phantom PI call that gave them 7 points and the no call on the obvious PPI of Samuel's grabbing Decker's collar in the end zone .. OR the ridiculous call that DT was out of bounds and didn't score when the guy was staring right at DT's feet the entire play... luckily the obvious os that screw up and hte blessing of mandatory review in 2 minutes before the half reversed that terrible call.

Nevertheless, Atlanta is a good team and they played well .. well enough to make us pay for the 4 to 0 TO margin. I still say we beat them 8 times out of 10 on even turf.

That was literally about as bad as you can play in one quarter and one half and still we lost by only 6. Small consolation but dramatically better than in years past when such games quickly became 48 to 14 blow outs!

This was a very different, and far more hopeful response to such adversity!

We still have a lot of work to do but will be getting steadily better. Will help too to get Kupe back asap!

Action
09-17-2012, 10:07 PM
The only person not playing up to par is Dumervil... he is getting held all the time but he isn't generating a pass rush like his normal self. However I'm not sure if this is due to the technique they're forcing him to play, because what has happened is that his run defense is great now.

He isn't complaining about the holds either from what I've seen.... maybe he's just used to it.

R8R H8R
09-17-2012, 10:09 PM
I can't believe the league officials are not going to come out tomorrow looking like the only guys left in the room when the **** hit the fan. That was an embarrassing product the league put on display tonight. They should be ashamed of themselves and settle this bs with the REAL officials before business ends tomorrow.

I swear, I never realized just how good the real refs are until I saw what amateurs these replacements are.

Mr.Meanie
09-17-2012, 10:11 PM
Brutal game by Peyton, 3 picks that were pretty much all his fault. Defense that couldn't get off the field. Refs that just ****ing sucked. Horrible game all around.

And we were literally one 3rd and 5 play away from taking possession with major momentum in the final few minutes to win the game? Against one of the top teams? I'll take that loss with this team and be happy with it. After the last 10 years, I feel like we're on the right track, and we'll lose a few games to great teams who are deep playoff contenders. No need to jump off the cliff just yet, it's a long season and next week will give us a great idea what kind of team we have.

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2012, 10:11 PM
Dummervil is doing fine. More sacks would be great.

He's doubled teamed during the games and he's much better against the run.

boltaneer
09-17-2012, 10:12 PM
If I were the Broncos, I'd be afraid that the Falcons just showed the rest of the league the blueprint to counter Manning.

The Chargers have always done a similar "Amoeba" type of defensive front, bringing all sorts of different blitzes and that's always flustered Manning. But Manning still had the ability to burn you deep if you gambled too much or made a mistake.

It's obvious that 2012 Peyton has lost a lot of zip on his passes. All three of his picks were ugly wounded ducks that had nothing on them.

I don't know why the Falcons started going back to a more base/prevent defense in the fourth quarter. That's when Peyton can go into field general mode and pick apart the defense, even with dink and dunk passing.

One thing about the Falcons offense, they've got scary wideouts and Gonzales commanding the middle of the field but Turner looks like he's got cement blocks on his feet. They tried going into run out the clock mode but that's not going to happen with Turner, with the way he's running now. They should have just kept the foot on the pedal and moved the chains that way.

On the plus side, McGahee still looks like a beast. Though he's benefiting from great o-line play (wow, they open huge holes for him), I thought he would come back to earth this year without the Tebow style offense helping him out. I just wonder when they'll have the guts to cut Moreno at some point.

The replacement refs were atrocious, but that's nothing new. That's been going on since week 1 in the pre-season.

R8R H8R
09-17-2012, 10:12 PM
I thought that was huge.

I'm not sure why the hate on Moore, he blew the Int but anyone outside of Ed Reed drops Ints. He didn't miss any tackles tonight from what I remember, which is a HUGE improvement over last year.

Because, didn't you know, if you don't play like Steve Atwater in your 6 or 7th (?) start, then clearly you are a bust.

Mr.Meanie
09-17-2012, 10:16 PM
Also, this may be hyperbole, but I would put Von Miller as the most disruptive force on defense in the league, behind Clay Matthews. Miller is just flat out ****ing ridiculous, on pass and run defense. He was a 1 man team out there, absolutely amazing.

Armchair Bronco
09-17-2012, 10:16 PM
The OC is the same clown that kept Tebow chained to the pocket last year. He was utterly stumped with Atlanta's 9-man blitz-o-ramma formations THE ENTIRE GAME and couldn't devise anything to counter it.

And the defense is still getting killed on 3rd and long. Almost zero pressure on Ryan tonight. Why didn't we bring the house on 3rd & 6 with 2 minutes left?

I blame the OC, the DC, the HC, the refs, and the QB...in that order.

Cito Pelon
09-17-2012, 10:17 PM
Well, Denver looks like a pretty good team, as does Atlanta. Obviously the story for this game was the TO differential, not the refs. People tend to forget the regular refs f up just as bad. Peyton pretty much blew the game in the first Q, the loss is almost totally on him.

Action
09-17-2012, 10:19 PM
If I were the Broncos, I'd be afraid that the Falcons just showed the rest of the league the blueprint to counter Manning.


What? Don't show your coverage until late...? It was Peyton's 2nd game back, and he played well in the 2nd half. Not all teams can play like that, Mike Nolan runs a defense that specifically moves players all over the place... so not every team can follow this strategy.

NFLBRONCO
09-17-2012, 10:22 PM
Better play by S position we could have won tonight. I agree Moreno fumble was turning point.

Action
09-17-2012, 10:24 PM
The OC is the same clown that kept Tebow chained to the pocket last year. He was utterly stumped with Atlanta's 9-man blitz-o-ramma formations THE ENTIRE GAME and couldn't devise anything to counter it.

Jon Gruden didn't even know what the **** was going on with that defense, and by the late 2nd half Broncos broke it down.

The ONLY thing I think he could have done better was run the ball more for the WHOLE game. Falcons clearly aren't a physical defense outside of those CB's that can lay some licks... we ran the ball hard when they weren't overloaded on the front.


And the defense is still getting killed on 3rd and long. Almost zero pressure on Ryan tonight. Why didn't we bring the house on 3rd & 6 with 2 minutes left?


Defense held them to 5-13 on 3rd downs, which is pretty good. Not great but a huge improvement.

3rd and 6 isn't exactly an automatic "bring the house" down... they were having huge success with to get them to that point... and I believe the Falcons were spread out so that was a judgement call. It's one of those, easy to say in hindsight calls.

R8R H8R
09-17-2012, 10:25 PM
Well, Denver looks like a pretty good team, as does Atlanta. Obviously the story for this game was the TO differential, not the refs. People tend to forget the regular refs f up just as bad. Peyton pretty much blew the game in the first Q, the loss is almost totally on him.

Not even close. They have had bad games for sure, but this scab crap is consistently bad, darn near every game. Like Bill Polian said after the game, it's chaos, and that is being generous.

Action
09-17-2012, 10:26 PM
Better play by S position we could have won tonight. I agree Moreno fumble was turning point.

Not sure I agree that the Moreno fumble was a turning point. That only led to a field goal, and it just was along with the momentum of how ****ty the offense was playing (in the 1st quarter).

IMO the turning point was that Tony Carter PI...

Armchair Bronco
09-17-2012, 10:27 PM
By the way, Gruden and his sidekick were utterly incompetent tonight...as usual.

How many times did they call our QB "Eli"? At least 2.

How many times did Gruden call the Broncos "The Colts". I lost count.

And for Gruden, every other play is a superlative. "That's one of the greatest tackles I've EVER seen! That guy is an amazing player, one of the best in the league, maybe of all time." Then just change this up like 500 times during the game and you have Gruden's analysis game plan.

NFLBRONCO
09-17-2012, 10:29 PM
Not sure I agree that the Moreno fumble was a turning point. That only led to a field goal, and it just was along with the momentum of how ****ty the offense was playing (in the 1st quarter).

IMO the turning point was that Tony Carter PI...

Why I say that is we were finally doing something in the awful 1st qtr. Just saying our O might of got more confident sooner without that fumble.

Doggcow
09-17-2012, 10:30 PM
Better play by S position we could have won tonight. I agree Moreno fumble was turning point.

You could blame any position really. Oline gave up a couple bad sacks. WRs werent getting open. RB's had a fumble. Dline didn't get pressure. Linebackers didn't do anything amazing but actually weren't too terrible. Secondary shut down a VERY good receiving corps but gave up a couple plays, and got PI'd.

Action
09-17-2012, 10:32 PM
Why I say that is we were finally doing something in the awful 1st qtr. Just saying our O might of got more confident sooner without that fumble.

I understand where you were coming from... we were picking up momentum and could have scored at least a FG etc... but you gotta remember, that last Peyton interception was on a drive we were getting close to scoring too.

However, again just in my opinion, I don't think a turning point can happen in the 1st quarter and if it can, Manning deserves all the blame here and not Moreno.

Running backs fumble all the time, elite ones too. Throwing 3 ints in 4 passes has got to be some sort of record.

NFLBRONCO
09-17-2012, 10:32 PM
You could blame any position really. Oline gave up a couple bad sacks. WRs werent getting open. RB's had a fumble. Dline didn't get pressure. Linebackers didn't do anything amazing but actually weren't too terrible. Secondary shut down a VERY good receiving corps but gave up a couple plays, and got PI'd.

Still encouraging games like this used to be 45-21 games. Just disappointed we can't make that one play when we need too.

NFLBRONCO
09-17-2012, 10:35 PM
I understand where you were coming from... we were picking up momentum and could have scored at least a FG etc... but you gotta remember, that last Peyton interception was on a drive we were getting close to scoring too.

However, again just in my opinion, I don't think a turning point can happen in the 1st quarter and if it can, Manning deserves all the blame here and not Moreno.

Running backs fumble all the time, elite ones too. Throwing 3 ints in 4 passes has got to be some sort of record.


I agree with this too

Mr.Meanie
09-17-2012, 10:35 PM
I would be willing to bet Gruden had thrown down a few, he was almost incoherent

Doggcow
09-17-2012, 10:35 PM
Still encouraging games like this used to be 45-21 games. Just disappointed we can't make that one play when we need too.

That's my point. I still don't feel like we really "lost" this game. I fully believe we are the superior team. The fact that we probably still win this game if we just get ONE break with our defenders holding onto a pick is awesome. We almost overcame the worst start I've ever seen, and the refs.

SoCalBronco
09-17-2012, 10:37 PM
If I were the Broncos, I'd be afraid that the Falcons just showed the rest of the league the blueprint to counter Manning.

The Chargers have always done a similar "Amoeba" type of defensive front, bringing all sorts of different blitzes and that's always flustered Manning. But Manning still had the ability to burn you deep if you gambled too much or made a mistake.



"Amoeba" style fronts are nothing new. They are fairly prevalent in the college game and even in the pro game.

A few years ago the Green Bay Packers had what they called their "Psycho" front. Constant movement and shifting in the defensive front has its advantages. It also has its well settled disadvantages. It's not exactly a new idea. It might be "new" to the extent that the Falcons in particular this year have not used it much yet so it wasn't in their tendencies. With time to prepare for this stuff, you can eat it up. I'm sure they'll work on it. There are many ways to defeat the "Psycho" style fronts.

BroncoMan4ever
09-17-2012, 10:43 PM
Why isn't Quinton Carter playing? He was our best Safety last year(not named Dawkins) and was playing really well before injury. So what's the deal is he still hurt or did he **** Del Rio's wife or something?

NFLBRONCO
09-17-2012, 10:44 PM
I'm not going to put lipstick on a pig. We had a bad game. Manning played his worst first quarter of his career. Stokely and DT had drops and refs were downright crooked. Honestly we're a bunch of phantom calls and a better game away from dominating these guys.

They had four turnovers and 13 points to show for it and we're a better safety away from getting some key stops.

My thoughts:


The front office doesn't want to punt on Moore. They are determined to sell us he's good. He is not.
None of the RB's except Hillman are a threat to take one the distance. They also aren't seeing some big cutback lanes.
I hated our game plan early. It's like they just decided to mail it in with the no huddle. They should have huddled and gone to a quick count. Nolan definitely confused Manning and we should have run the ball a lot more than we did. It was annoying.
I think there will be some games like this especially early in the season where Manning struggles to find his rhythm. It's part of the growing pains.
We're probably going to be ok. Even though some fools are saying this was a "must win" it was against an NFC team in a place they almost never lose. We can rebound from this.

#5 is only thing I kind of disagree with you. Is losing end of the world tonight no overall. If you want to be elite team this game is a must win when your trying to take steps forward. I understand we'll have growing pains along the way being year #1 with Manning esp on road. Its still alot of fun now.

Action
09-17-2012, 10:47 PM
Why isn't Quinton Carter playing? He was our best Safety last year(not named Dawkins) and was playing really well before injury. So what's the deal is he still hurt or did he **** Del Rio's wife or something?

Missed almost all of TC and pre-season... he's been active the past two games, I'm sure we'll see him in there as time moves on.

Vegas_Bronco
09-17-2012, 10:55 PM
I think our offense isnt that good...they had more than enough opportunities and really got beat tonight by a defense that isnt pansy azzed like our wr are. Last week the defense won the gamegame and this week they kept it fromto being a blow out! It like the defensive effort, but feel like our TEs have been a big disappointment.Decker needs to man up and make some plays if he really is going to be wr1 or 2.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-17-2012, 10:57 PM
#5 is only thing I kind of disagree with you. Is losing end of the world tonight no overall. If you want to be elite team this game is a must win when your trying to take steps forward. I understand we'll have growing pains along the way being year #1 with Manning esp on road. Its still alot of fun now.

Im sorry, this game was not a must win under any circumstances. The Giants TWICE now have had blah regular seasons only to win super bowls

Action
09-17-2012, 10:57 PM
I think our offense isnt that good...they had more than enough opportunities and really got beat tonight by a defense that isnt pansy azzed like our wr are. Last weekweek the defensegame won the gamegame and thisthe week theyand kept itfighting from beoing a blowmodern out! I likewas the defensicve effort, but feelthe like ourthe tight endsalso have beenthe a hugestick disappointment.Decker needs to man up and make some plays if he really is going to be wr1 or 2.

Decker is not a #1 and will never be... he has some poor body control when it comes to catches with a defender on him. That deep pass by Manning was on target and didn't touch his hands... it went under his hands and over his helmet.

NFLBRONCO
09-17-2012, 10:58 PM
I think our offense isnt that good...they had more than enough opportunities and really got beat tonight by a defense that isnt pansy azzed like our wr are. Last weekweek the defensegame won the gamegame and thisthe week theyand kept itfighting from beoing a blowmodern out! I likewas the defensicve effort, but feelthe like ourthe tight endsalso have beenthe a hugestick disappointment.Decker needs to man up and make some plays if he really is going to be wr1 or 2.

Not enough speed in space type players on this offense. We need Hillman and another big threat at RB to open up passing game.

boltaneer
09-17-2012, 11:02 PM
"Amoeba" style fronts are nothing new. They are fairly prevalent in the college game and even in the pro game.

A few years ago the Green Bay Packers had what they called their "Psycho" front. Constant movement and shifting in the defensive front has its advantages. It also has its well settled disadvantages. It's not exactly a new idea. It might be "new" to the extent that the Falcons in particular this year have not used it much yet so it wasn't in their tendencies. With time to prepare for this stuff, you can eat it up. I'm sure they'll work on it. There are many ways to defeat the "Psycho" style fronts.

It's not anything new, read my post. The Chargers have been doing this to Manning for almost a decade now and have had incredible success against him.

My point is that, in the past, Manning had the ability to kill you deep if you didn't get to him so it was a big gamble. His arm looks very limited now so I would constantly bring the house on him, take away the intermediate routes and dare him to beat me deep until he can prove that he can or turn him into captain checkdown.

Vegas_Bronco
09-17-2012, 11:04 PM
Decker is not a #1 and will never be... he has some poor body control when it comes to catches with a defender on him. That deep pass by Manning was on target and didn't touch his hands... it went under his hands and over his helmet.

Even manning had a moment where he was wondering why reggie wayne wasnt there to catch that ball.

Action
09-17-2012, 11:04 PM
My point is that, in the past, Manning had the ability to kill you deep if you didn't get to him so it was a big gamble. His arm looks very limited now so I would constantly bring the house on him, take away the intermediate routes and dare him to beat me deep until he can prove that he can or turn him into captain checkdown.

lol Philip Rivers has one of the weakest arms in the league in terms of velocity... and this would never work against him.

Vegas_Bronco
09-17-2012, 11:05 PM
Decker is not a #1 and will never be... he has some poor body control when it comes to catches with a defender on him. That deep pass by Manning was on target and didn't touch his hands... it went under his hands and over his helmet.

...and out of mannings playbook

NFLBRONCO
09-17-2012, 11:11 PM
SPEED is needed

Vegas_Bronco
09-17-2012, 11:11 PM
No way you can say this is a defensive correction...we prepared for the run and they ended up needed 30 yards of offense to acquire 13 points...we all need to ask ourselves where is the talent in key ball skill positions? The only reason we stayed in this game was that mcgahee kept their defense honest. DTs catch was sweet but he needs to make that an every down possibility instead of making mistakes or taking plays off.

boltaneer
09-17-2012, 11:12 PM
lol Philip Rivers has one of the weakest arms in the league in terms of velocity... and this would never work against him.

He does?

Action
09-17-2012, 11:17 PM
He does?

Philip Rivers? Can you name me a QB with less velocity on his throws? His deep passes are accurate but they have so much arc...this has more to do with his throwing motion than anything. You can't have a rocket arm when you throw it like a javelin.

boltaneer
09-17-2012, 11:33 PM
Philip Rivers? Can you name me a QB with less velocity on his throws? His deep passes are accurate but they have so much arc...this has more to do with his throwing motion than anything. You can't have a rocket arm when you throw it like a javelin.

"This is what many people (including myself) questioned when he came out of college. But he can make all the throws and can do so consistently. He has great velocity on his ball and he throws a highly catchable deep ball."

- Ron Jaworski

Action
09-17-2012, 11:36 PM
"This is what many people (including myself) questioned when he came out of college. But he can make all the throws and can do so consistently. He has great velocity on his ball and he throws a highly catchable deep ball."

- Ron Jaworski

First of all, you're quoting an idiot.

2nd, I never said he can't make all the throws, I specifically said he has one of the weakest arms in terms of velocity... and you just can't throw it super hard consistently with that motion. This has nothing to do with Rivers tho..

You're saying they should bring the house and play the intermediate routes all day... this strategy would never work in the NFL against any QB for the length of a game.

boltaneer
09-18-2012, 12:01 AM
First of all, you're quoting an idiot.

2nd, I never said he can't make all the throws, I specifically said he has one of the weakest arms in terms of velocity... and you just can't throw it super hard consistently with that motion. This has nothing to do with Rivers tho..

You're saying they should bring the house and play the intermediate routes all day... this strategy would never work in the NFL against any QB for the length of a game.

I respect Jaws's opinion over yours. :ouwknow:

NUB
09-18-2012, 12:08 AM
Philip Rivers' arm is probably weaker than Chad Pennington post-surgery.

Completely serious. How can anyone disagree? The guy shot puts his throws -- he literally shot puts them. This isn't some horrible flaw -- Rivers is an accurate passer with a quick release. But I have never seen Rivers "sling" it into traffic or thread needles or any of that. He just doesn't put a lot of velocity or spin behind his passes.

Atwater His Ass
09-18-2012, 12:18 AM
Offense just wasn't ready at the start and it really showed. I said before the game that playing away in a dome against an unfamiliar team on their home opener on Monday night was going to be a challenge. Couple that with ATL showing a different style of defense that Denver obviously didn't prepare for, and we were lucky not to get blown out of this thing by halftime. Big credit to the defense for that, holding ATL to FG's.

Run defense was solid. But where was the pass rush prior to the 4th quarter? Totally non-existant from a team that is supposed to have a killer rush.

That sack on our second to last drive that made it 4th and 19 and forced a punt was just killer. Even if Manning could have just thrown it away, Denver could have gone for it and with the 3 and out by ATL on the next drive, Denver would have had a chance to win the game.

Action
09-18-2012, 12:34 AM
SPEED is needed

It is overrated. Manning never had a home run threat like that on the Colts, and many of the top offenses and teams today don't have a home run threat in their offense.

Patriots, Packers, Niners...

Not to say it won't help, but people are just thinking in terms of madden.. get the fastest guy out there and give him the ball.

55CrushEm
09-18-2012, 04:27 AM
Well, Denver looks like a pretty good team, as does Atlanta. Obviously the story for this game was the TO differential, not the refs. People tend to forget the regular refs f up just as bad. Peyton pretty much blew the game in the first Q, the loss is almost totally on him.

No. No they don't. That's a cop-out statement.

For the record, I'm not one to EVER complain about the reffing.....but this was an embarassment last night. Outright abyssmal.

TheReverend
09-18-2012, 05:10 AM
Asante Samuel played OUT OF HIS ****ING mind.

Not only did he make some ridiculous defensive plays, but his play also allowed them to roll coverage and really cover up for their injury deficiencies in the secondary and let the safeties play the ball instead of primarily focusing on stopping the play. Their defense would've sucked penis without him.

Pretty much put on a clinic answering the ignorant "you can just throw away from a good corner!" argument.

2KBack
09-18-2012, 05:19 AM
While I was dumbfounded by the first quarter interceptions. I am actually encouraged by this game. I actually came away more confident in Denver's abilities this season. To spot a team (a perennial contending team) 10-13 points in the first quarter or so and only lose by 6 (with a realistic chance to win honestly). We just aren't going to open games that badly very often, if ever again. Take away just one of those turnovers, like the fumble where apparently the Refs thought Franklin was a Falcon, and we win this game. Call holding on the offense fairly (not a single call on Atlanta all game, not one). Take away the automatic penalties on our defense for incomplete passes, despite not being anywhere near the player, and we win. We not only played against ourselves to start the game, then we played against the refs for the rest, and we were still close.

We are a pretty good team.

55CrushEm
09-18-2012, 05:32 AM
This.

Stagger Lee
09-18-2012, 05:37 AM
While I was dumbfounded by the first quarter interceptions. I am actually encouraged by this game. I actually came away more confident in Denver's abilities this season. To spot a team (a perennial contending team) 10-13 points in the first quarter or so and only lose by 6 (with a realistic chance to win honestly). We just aren't going to open games that badly very often, if ever again. Take away just one of those turnovers, like the fumble where apparently the Refs thought Franklin was a Falcon, and we win this game. Call holding on the offense fairly (not a single call on Atlanta all game, not one). Take away the automatic penalties on our defense for incomplete passes, despite not being anywhere near the player, and we win. We not only played against ourselves to start the game, then we played against the refs for the rest, and we were still close.

We are a pretty good team.

Absolutely. This one could have gotten much worse, but instead of folding up shop like McD's boys did against Oakland, they fought back and were one more defensive stop from maybe winning.
I'm upset over the loss obviously, but I still feel pretty good about this team.

socalorado
09-18-2012, 05:46 AM
I respect Jaws's opinion over yours. :ouwknow:

Jaworski is an idiot. And never won anything.

Huh. I guess he would make sense then to a sparkler fan.

socalorado
09-18-2012, 05:48 AM
While I was dumbfounded by the first quarter interceptions. I am actually encouraged by this game. I actually came away more confident in Denver's abilities this season. To spot a team (a perennial contending team) 10-13 points in the first quarter or so and only lose by 6 (with a realistic chance to win honestly). We just aren't going to open games that badly very often, if ever again. Take away just one of those turnovers, like the fumble where apparently the Refs thought Franklin was a Falcon, and we win this game. Call holding on the offense fairly (not a single call on Atlanta all game, not one). Take away the automatic penalties on our defense for incomplete passes, despite not being anywhere near the player, and we win. We not only played against ourselves to start the game, then we played against the refs for the rest, and we were still close.

We are a pretty good team.

This.

CEH
09-18-2012, 06:10 AM
The turnovers early killed us. We gave a a gimme TD to start the game and by the end outscored ATL 21-20


I would give up a #1 for a stud safety right now. I think this is the one position we need to improve next year
Knowshown being Knowshown. Willis ran hard and put up good numbers.
Doom was a no show which was a pregame concern
Harris is a nice slot CB but the other team had players step up and make INTs

I counted 3 times a Bronco had his hands on the ball. Cater, Moore and Porter with the last two having a clear path to the endzone. That was disappointing. We needed a defensive play to overturn the tide and get the mojo back on our side


Disappointed in Decker not coming down with that catch. That catch was routinely made in Indy and was a hall mark of a Manning comeback. I hope he comes down with those in the future and we can look back but hsi hands concern me

DT is a beast. Manning is teaching him how to be a All World WR

Where was Julio?

Overall with the crowd this was a great learning experience for the no huddle and how Manning works away from home

tsiguy96
09-18-2012, 06:12 AM
SPEED is needed

agreed completely, having 9 guys at the line, we needed a burner to take the top off the defense and didnt have one.

TheChamp24
09-18-2012, 06:19 AM
I do wonder where Dumervil is. He's getting single blocked and no pressure from him.
The offense was actually doing decent, we just shot ourselves in the foot. I do agree the key turning point was the fumble, that was our 4th turnover and at that point, it was like "Oh boy, this isn't going to be a fun game, nothing will go right for us"
The Falcons only got a field goal, but it was 13-0 and it was like we couldn't score at all on offense.

I like our offense, I do think we need to see what Hillman can do.

TonyR
09-18-2012, 06:27 AM
...a good corner...

Speaking of good corners, Brandon Boykin looked good for the Eagles on Sunday while Omar Bolden can't get on the field. I'm starting to worry about the drafting ability of this FO. Rahim Moore and Nate Irving last year, and Hillman, Bolden and Blake looking questionable this year (although too early to write anybody off).

ColoradoDarin
09-18-2012, 06:48 AM
Without the (almost) pick 6, we win this game. The Defense was awesome, given the holes that Peyton and the refs put them in. I didn't see the out coaching part - not much Fox can do when the QB hand the opposition the ball 3 times and the refs hand the fumble to the Falcons without them recovering it, it's not like he has 6 challenges a game.

A game we could have won, but didn't. Turnovers are a killer.

TheReverend
09-18-2012, 06:49 AM
Speaking of good corners, Brandon Boykin looked good for the Eagles on Sunday while Omar Bolden can't get on the field. I'm starting to worry about the drafting ability of this FO. Rahim Moore and Nate Irving last year, and Hillman, Bolden and Blake looking questionable this year (although too early to write anybody off).

Boykin is a good player. Bolden's ceiling is still higher and it's VERY early to be drawing any concrete conclusions on either.

Kaylore
09-18-2012, 06:56 AM
Speaking of good corners, Brandon Boykin looked good for the Eagles on Sunday while Omar Bolden can't get on the field. I'm starting to worry about the drafting ability of this FO. Rahim Moore and Nate Irving last year, and Hillman, Bolden and Blake looking questionable this year (although too early to write anybody off).

:spit: I was wondering when the next "this draft class is a bust!" two games into the season, would show up.

Thanks for that.

TonyR
09-18-2012, 07:04 AM
Bolden's ceiling is still higher and it's VERY early to be drawing any concrete conclusions on either.

God I hope you're right. Agree, far too early.

TonyR
09-18-2012, 07:06 AM
I was wondering when the next "this draft class is a bust!" two games into the season, would show up.

Thanks for that.

Frustrated is all. And if you're feeling good about Moore and Irving then you're quite the optimist. Our 2-4 round players aren't contributing and we need them to.

TheReverend
09-18-2012, 07:07 AM
Frustrated is all. And if you're feeling good about Moore and Irving then you're quite the optimist. Our 2-4 round players aren't contributing and we need them to.

Irving was a monster on ST yesterday. There's one positive.

Kaylore
09-18-2012, 07:44 AM
Frustrated is all. And if you're feeling good about Moore and Irving then you're quite the optimist. Our 2-4 round players aren't contributing and we need them to.

First year in the front office and Xanders was still here. At least they are hitting early on their first picks. You still have Miller, Franklin, Chris Harris and Jeremy Beal will probably be starting next year. Moore might still improve, but they should bring in some competition.

And this year's draft I liked everyone except Blake. I honestly think Jackson and Trevathan can be solid players for us and Wolfe is already starting. Hillman will get his whenever the front office feels he's ready. I this his being hurt in camp had him behind the rest of the team. Manning needs guys he can trust out there to change things on the fly and I don't believe Hillman knows the playbook well enough to do that yet.

Black96WS6
09-18-2012, 07:57 AM
1-1 is definitely not the time to worry.

Sometimes these games happen. Remember the 2006 14-2 Chargers? LT had a monster year, Merriman was in his roided up prime, a healthy, younger Gates, VJ, Marty instead of Norv, etc, - yet they lost in the 1st round to the Patriots because they made so many bone-headed mistakes. They were clearly better, but didn't deserve to win.

I watched the entire DEN-ATL game last night, and I honestly don't think Atlanta is a better team, even though they won.

Atlanta couldn't run the ball at all.

They were gifted with 4 turnovers in the 1st quarter and came away with only 13 pts.

They had to hang on to win at the end despite taking a 27-7 lead into the 4th qtr!

So just take a Mulligan on this one and move on to the next.

go_broncos
09-18-2012, 08:01 AM
1-1 is definitely not the time to worry.

Sometimes these games happen. Remember the 2006 14-2 Chargers? LT had a monster year, Merriman was in his roided up prime, a healthy, younger Gates, VJ, Marty instead of Norv, etc, - yet they lost in the 1st round to the Patriots because they made so many bone-headed mistakes. They were clearly better, but didn't deserve to win.

I watched the entire DEN-ATL game last night, and I honestly don't think Atlanta is a better team, even though they won.

Atlanta couldn't run the ball at all.

They were gifted with 4 turnovers in the 1st quarter and came away with only 13 pts.

They had to hang on to win at the end despite taking a 27-7 lead into the 4th qtr!

So just take a Mulligan on this one and move on to the next.

I agree..ATL is not a good team..Next week,they will lose against SD.
Our schedule is brutal..Next week..we have to win.

Drunken.Broncoholic
09-18-2012, 08:09 AM
I agree..ATL is not a good team..Next week,they will lose against SD.
Our schedule is brutal..Next week..we have to win.

Hopefully they beat SD. Chargers are the threat in the west and their schedule is a bit easier than broncos. Only 1 team from the west is goin to the playoffs IMO. They need some losses

Bacchus
09-18-2012, 08:11 AM
I agree..ATL is not a good team..Next week,they will lose against SD.
Our schedule is brutal..Next week..we have to win.

It's not a must win. I wish people would stop saying that. What if Denver loses next week to Houston and then goes on to sweep the division? Nothing is a must win unless it is a MUST win!

Jekyll15Hyde
09-18-2012, 08:18 AM
I agree..ATL is not a good team..Next week,they will lose against SD.
Our schedule is brutal..Next week..we have to win.

Atlanta will beat SD and we will beat Houston

uplink
09-18-2012, 08:23 AM
[QUOTE=Hulamau;3671929]Yep agree Kaylore,
Had they not made that terrible PI call on Tony Carter they had to punt instead of going on to score that TD on a totally gassed Defense at that point who had to take it hard when they stop them on 3rd down only to have the refs had it to Atlanta.
QUOTE]

One of the worst PI calls I have ever seen. Carter was a few yardss away from the reciever for the whole route. The reciever happend to trip and they called PI. It was a shameful call.

broncosteven
09-18-2012, 08:44 AM
My only objection was the deep passes with Manning. At this time, I have no confidence that's a strong part of his game.. so why do it three different times? I think two of them weren't even remotely close to receivers. If we have to go deep, would rather go sideline then the middle of the field

Not blaming Manning for the loss as it could have been mix-ups with WR's as well. We did pretty well, considering we gave them an early td basically with the first pick.

I think Manning thought he was going to have a big night throwing because Grimes was out and he thought they had a bunch of Roc Alexanders playing CB.

Nolan disguised things well, about the same as Pitt does but Manning's arm looked bad on those early deep throws, they were all inaccurate, short, and thrown into coverage. After the 1st one or maybe even the 2nd I would have backed off the down field stuff for a while, they finally did after the 3rd pick but then KM fumbles and kills the chances for a win.

Manning did get his zip back late in the 3rd quarter. I wouldn't sound the alarm yet but Manning has to know what he is capable of before he throws the deep ball in a game. He still has a lot of rehab to go. It will bear watching to see if he starts having pain in his throwing shoulder after games, he has 2 full games now and if he still hasn't regenerated that nerve he is going to get pain and muscle atrophy. If the nerve is 100% he still needs to get the strength back. I still thing week 6 will tell how the rest of the year will go.

NFLBRONCO
09-18-2012, 09:41 AM
It is overrated. Manning never had a home run threat like that on the Colts, and many of the top offenses and teams today don't have a home run threat in their offense.

Patriots, Packers, Niners...

Not to say it won't help, but people are just thinking in terms of madden.. get the fastest guy out there and give him the ball.

I think in games like this we need more speed on offense whether its overrated or not. How many this last night did we throw a pass and it looked like TE's/WR were open enough to move the chains to only get stoned and a punt. I think a quicker shifty player would have moved the chains a few more times last night. In other games we are ok. Can you at least get me another speed rb to fill in for Hillman half the time.

TonyR
09-18-2012, 10:01 AM
How many this last night did we throw a pass and it looked like TE's/WR were open enough to move the chains to only get stoned and a punt.

Both TE's appeared to be running in quick sand a couple of times last night.

Beantown Bronco
09-18-2012, 10:11 AM
Speaking of being outcoached, this is a matchup I wish we could've had later in the season. For whatever reason, Mike Nolan is a HOF caliber defensive coordinator if you only look at what he can do early in a season. November and December? He by and large sucks. Teams either figure him out or he becomes too predictable. Whatever it is, he always seems to field dominant defenses early and then fades late in the year. It's like clockwork.

I'll credit one of my friends, who is a die hard Redskins fan, for pointing this out right after the Broncos signed him and he was dead on.

lonestar
09-18-2012, 10:26 AM
I have not read but a hand ful of posts in this thread so IF i say something someone else has sorry about that .

But I guessing that I will break new ground for the most part..

Y'all act like because we got manning we should never lose a game.

we played a consistent team last night that has a winning QB that leads them their defense is pretty damned good and HEY FOLKS was that the DC we fired a couple of years ago calling the plays?

anyone wonder why they were ready for us?

it was apparent that Manning was very confused by the defense and that playing in a dome that is not in INDY is different.

I kept telling folks that this team would not be in Manning mind meld for a while and maybe not even this year.. But everyone thought after the PIT game they would be winning 16-0 this years and kicking ass in the playoffs..

Sorry but I had this one as a loss, so I was not surprised at all, as will most likely be the HOU game..

While I was encouraged in the late play in the game, it is even more apparent that we are still some players away from playing and beating the big boys on a consistent basis..

Popps
09-18-2012, 10:30 AM
I'm not going to put lipstick on a pig. We had a bad game. Manning played his worst first quarter of his career. Stokely and DT had drops and refs were downright crooked. Honestly we're a bunch of phantom calls and a better game away from dominating these guys.

They had four turnovers and 13 points to show for it and we're a better safety away from getting some key stops.

My thoughts:


The front office doesn't want to punt on Moore. They are determined to sell us he's good. He is not.
None of the RB's except Hillman are a threat to take one the distance. They also aren't seeing some big cutback lanes.
I hated our game plan early. It's like they just decided to mail it in with the no huddle. They should have huddled and gone to a quick count. Nolan definitely confused Manning and we should have run the ball a lot more than we did. It was annoying.
I think there will be some games like this especially early in the season where Manning struggles to find his rhythm. It's part of the growing pains.
We're probably going to be ok. Even though some fools are saying this was a "must win" it was against an NFC team in a place they almost never lose. We can rebound from this.


This game just illustrated a lot of what I expected. We've still got defensive issues, even though they held up very well all things considered. Manning has issues with his arm, and I don't know if it's rust or just aging. Our o-line isn't where it needs to be, etc.

So, outside of the early Manning struggles, none of this was a shock to me. We were outclassed last night. It's okay. This is year 1 of a 2-3 year plan to win a SB. (Yes, the front office expects Manning to be there at least that long.) Once we settled down, there was a lot to be encouraged about.

The point about the tight ends is a good one. Tony G murdered us last night.
Imagine if either of our guys were that proficient at getting open. Or... is it just that ATL is strong at LB, whereas we're subpar?

This preseason talk about us being a SB team was nonsense. Most around here seemed to recognize that. But, we hung with one of the best teams in the league after a disastrous start.

Again, maybe it's because I'm just a homer Broncos fan... but I'm not remotely in a panic over last night. It was just an illustration of where we need to improve this year, and going forward.

lonestar
09-18-2012, 10:31 AM
As for the replacement refs, sure they are not as good as the real one.. But even they made horrific calls..

Got to remember that we have instant replay because even the real refs got it wrong from time to time..

Y'all act like if they come back toe the field next week no bad calls will be made..

I've always said that that at the end of the day the bad calls usually even out.. Which has pretty much happened in most of the games I have watched..
Someone makes a bad call they give it back to you later.. a little pay back..

lonestar
09-18-2012, 10:36 AM
This game just illustrated a lot of what I expected. We've still got defensive issues, even though they held up very well all things considered. Manning has issues with his arm, and I don't know if it's rust or just aging. Our o-line isn't where it needs to be, etc.

So, outside of the early Manning struggles, none of this was a shock to me. We were outclassed last night. It's okay. This is year 1 of a 2-3 year plan to win a SB. (Yes, the front office expects Manning to be there at least that long.) Once we settled down, there was a lot to be encouraged about.

The point about the tight ends is a good one. Tony G murdered us last night.
Imagine if either of our guys were that proficient at getting open. Or... is it just that ATL is strong at LB, whereas we're subpar?

This preseason talk about us being a SB team was nonsense. Most around here seemed to recognize that. But, we hung with one of the best teams in the league after a disastrous start.

Again, maybe it's because I'm just a homer Broncos fan... but I'm not remotely in a panic over last night. It was just an illustration of where we need to improve this year, and going forward.
:thumbs:
Tony G has killed everyone he has played.. there is a reason he will be a first ballot HOF guy..

Your spot on about the 3 year plan except we are in year two.. with the proviso that the manning acquisition thru a kink in the 3 years..

SO far I'm pleased at how far this team has been rebuilt.. as big a hole for talent as Tanahan left us I think we are about on schedule for consistent winning next year..

gyldenlove
09-18-2012, 10:49 AM
Nolan's scheme had even Gruden confused.

Gruden was piss-drunk, at least I hope he was because he made no sense all night. He consistently named the wrong players, the wrong team and even on replays he would call out and draw up the wrong guy.

Dedhed
09-18-2012, 10:50 AM
ATL is not a good team.You're a clown.

JakeZ01
09-18-2012, 10:56 AM
1-1 after 2 games....yeah we should hit the panic button.

NO, just ignore poor play from a qb when you like him, and bash other's who do the same. That seems to work for you.

gyldenlove
09-18-2012, 10:57 AM
This game just illustrated a lot of what I expected. We've still got defensive issues, even though they held up very well all things considered. Manning has issues with his arm, and I don't know if it's rust or just aging. Our o-line isn't where it needs to be, etc.

So, outside of the early Manning struggles, none of this was a shock to me. We were outclassed last night. It's okay. This is year 1 of a 2-3 year plan to win a SB. (Yes, the front office expects Manning to be there at least that long.) Once we settled down, there was a lot to be encouraged about.

The point about the tight ends is a good one. Tony G murdered us last night.
Imagine if either of our guys were that proficient at getting open. Or... is it just that ATL is strong at LB, whereas we're subpar?

This preseason talk about us being a SB team was nonsense. Most around here seemed to recognize that. But, we hung with one of the best teams in the league after a disastrous start.

Again, maybe it's because I'm just a homer Broncos fan... but I'm not remotely in a panic over last night. It was just an illustration of where we need to improve this year, and going forward.

Atlanta is very strong at LB, they have a ton of speed at LB and S - something we just don't have which allows them more flexibility.

We are going to see TEs burn us all year, we don't have a single LB on the roster who can cover even a decent TE, Mike Adams has no game in coverage be it zone or man (not quite sure what the coaches see in him), Rahim Moore makes some good tackles in run support but more often than not he has no idea where he is supposed to be in coverage. The lack of cover skills really hurt us in zone coverage, Ryan was pretty consistently able to go to his 1st or 2nd read because the zones were so lose and poorly covered. The only way we are going to stop anyone is to match up Porter and Champ in man coverage all night long.

There is really no reason to worry, we played one of the best and most consistent teams in the league at their home field, we made pretty much every single attempt imaginable at giving away the game and we were still in it with a shot at winning in the end. This is a game that would have ended 35-7 in any of the previous 3 seasons.

I think there are positives to take away, our run defense is very good this season, our run offense is very consistent and while it lacks the explosivity of last year it is definitely still potent. The pass rush generated a lot of pressure but the coverage just wasn't good enough to keep Ryan from getting the ball to his top reads.

Beantown Bronco
09-18-2012, 10:58 AM
This preseason talk about us being a SB team was nonsense. Most around here seemed to recognize that. But, we hung with one of the best teams in the league after a disastrous start.

The Giants didn't look like a SB team last year until the playoffs got going. They looked horrible pretty much all of last year and almost didn't even make the playoffs. I don't see how anyone could say that there's a zero percent chance of us getting there this year. There's no team in the AFC that is so dominant right now that they'd beat anyone on even their worst day.

And it's only week two. The last thing you want to do is peak in September. Just ask Matt Ryan and the Falcons. Few are better at it than them.

broncocalijohn
09-18-2012, 11:02 AM
I agree..ATL is not a good team..Next week,they will lose against SD.
Our schedule is brutal..Next week..we have to win.

Atlanta is good and Norm is still the Chargers coach. He won't learn anything from our MNF game.

Mediator12
09-18-2012, 11:30 AM
The Giants didn't look like a SB team last year until the playoffs got going. They looked horrible pretty much all of last year and almost didn't even make the playoffs. I don't see how anyone could say that there's a zero percent chance of us getting there this year. There's no team in the AFC that is so dominant right now that they'd beat anyone on even their worst day.

And it's only week two. The last thing you want to do is peak in September. Just ask Matt Ryan and the Falcons. Few are better at it than them.

These are truly good points. Look at NE losing at HOME to ARI last weekend. They played almost as poorly as DEN and made even fewer mistakes.

Couple of points:

1. Manning made three boneheaded decisions last night. He was absolutely aggressive and reckless on those first three drives, and for a guy who says he is not back yet, he sure made decisions like he was all the way back.

His arm strength being questioned is absurd at so many levels. He NEVER had an arm to throw the ball into the situations he tried to exploit last night. Those balls were not "underthrown", they were poor mental reads. He should have been checking down routes and using comebacks, outs, crosses, and flare patterns that were so effective late in the game.

Instead, he was pressing and licking his chops as the defense dared him to beat them deep on the seams with no deep safety pre-snap. However, they did an amazing job of rotating into various cover three and cover 4 coverages that he threw those passes into. None of those coverages are deep seam route friendly.

2. Credit to Nolan for dusting out the fake Cover 0 ala Coyer in 2005 versus PHI. Of all the things Manning usually is prepared for, he did not recognize the fake Cover zero switch to cover three until he made the same mistake three times in row. He did not necessarily confuse Manning, he just baited him to try and make the big play, when they were in 3 deep coverages. The weird thing is Manning fell for it three times, let alone 2 which he hardly ever does. Manning has had games like this before, and they are mostly when he tries to be too aggressive. Nolan gambled big and his boys executed amazingly well.

3. The run game was REALLY effective last night. They blew a third and one early when they telegraphed the run, but otherwise they were highly efficient. Manning will adjust to that earlier next time. This team gives him a lot more balance.

4. The run defense was stout at the POA all night long until the final run. Hallelujah Praise the Lord!

5. The pass rush is not effective. Dumervil and Miller are not replicating Freeney and Mathis in the Colts Cover 2 pass rush. Miller is still a stud, but the rest of the DL is almost playing run first and the pass second. I want to see more out of them and better get off and wins on the third step. They are losing the pass rush initiative and I am not down with that even if they are playing the Run better.

6. The secondary was scared last night and looked Like INDY's defense when Peyton struggled. They failed to play the coverage, route, and man like the play design. Tony Carter was awful and putting Porter inside in the nickle was bad. Both were thinking and not playing. I think Carter should have played inside and left Porter outside. However, I can not say that definitively because we never saw what that could have looked like in the game. Maybe Del Rio was scared to death of that when he saw it during the week, but the option he chose was almost as good as Coyer Leaving Roc on Wayne all game back in the day. That is, it failed all night long to produce.


More later....

Dedhed
09-18-2012, 11:31 AM
I am of the opinion that we lost this game because we were outplayed and Manning sucked, not because of refs and coaches.

SportinOne
09-18-2012, 11:47 AM
Positives
Colquitt continues to be one of the best punters in the AFC
Miller is beasting... 3 rd down sack was clutch
Mcgahee showing little signs of slowing down
Run d was excellent
We should have never been in this game after 4 TOs... Defense did its job to slow down Atlanta.

Negative
Offense went through its growing pains
Dumervil being quiet for the past 2 weeks without any double teams is concerning
Replacement refs

Despite the immense 1st quarter suckitude... If manning gets the ball back, I bet most of us here would expect Denver to pull off a win in an incredibly tough place to play.

This. And why on earth did we blitz EVERYONE on that play when we knew it was going to be a run? We were stopping the run all night and you blitz like that and put the D in a vulnerable spot if he runs away from the blitz.. and he did, and they got by far their biggest run play of the night. We stop them there and provided the offensive line doesn't fall apart we probably win this game.

Hey, like someone else said, Atlanta doesn't lose at home. This is a team with a lot of time spent fine tuning their offense. They are beginning to peak. We are just getting started. Ryan did a great job of avoiding pressure with small drops and quick passes. Outcoached, YES. Some horrible decision making tonight on our part. But we will survive. Willis has to stay healthy though or I don't think this team is good enough to contend for anything by simply passing the ball.

gyldenlove
09-18-2012, 11:47 AM
These are truly good points. Look at NE losing at HOME to ARI last weekend. They played almost as poorly as DEN and made even fewer mistakes.

Couple of points:

1. Manning made three boneheaded decisions last night. He was absolutely aggressive and reckless on those first three drives, and for a guy who says he is not back yet, he sure made decisions like he was all the way back.

His arm strength being questioned is absurd at so many levels. He NEVER had an arm to throw the ball into the situations he tried to exploit last night. Those balls were not "underthrown", they were poor mental reads. He should have been checking down routes and using comebacks, outs, crosses, and flare patterns that were so effective late in the game.

Instead, he was pressing and licking his chops as the defense dared him to beat them deep on the seams with no deep safety pre-snap. However, they did an amazing job of rotating into various cover three and cover 4 coverages that he threw those passes into. None of those coverages are deep seam route friendly.

2. Credit to Nolan for dusting out the fake Cover 0 ala Coyer in 2005 versus PHI. Of all the things Manning usually is prepared for, he did not recognize the fake Cover zero switch to cover three until he made the same mistake three times in row. He did not necessarily confuse Manning, he just baited him to try and make the big play, when they were in 3 deep coverages. The weird thing is Manning fell for it three times, let alone 2 which he hardly ever does. Manning has had games like this before, and they are mostly when he tries to be too aggressive. Nolan gambled big and his boys executed amazingly well.

3. The run game was REALLY effective last night. They blew a third and one early when they telegraphed the run, but otherwise they were highly efficient. Manning will adjust to that earlier next time. This team gives him a lot more balance.

4. The run defense was stout at the POA all night long until the final run. Hallelujah Praise the Lord!

5. The pass rush is not effective. Dumervil and Miller are not replicating Freeney and Mathis in the Colts Cover 2 pass rush. Miller is still a stud, but the rest of the DL is almost playing run first and the pass second. I want to see more out of them and better get off and wins on the third step. They are losing the pass rush initiative and I am not down with that even if they are playing the Run better.

6. The secondary was scared last night and looked Like INDY's defense when Peyton struggled. They failed to play the coverage, route, and man like the play design. Tony Carter was awful and putting Porter inside in the nickle was bad. Both were thinking and not playing. I think Carter should have played inside and left Porter outside. However, I can not say that definitively because we never saw what that could have looked like in the game. Maybe Del Rio was scared to death of that when he saw it during the week, but the option he chose was almost as good as Coyer Leaving Roc on Wayne all game back in the day. That is, it failed all night long to produce.


More later....

1. The 2nd INT was clearly underthrown, he had Stokley open 4 or 5 yards deeper down field, the ball just came out flat and dipped on him allowing the otherwise beaten DB to make the pick. If he gets that ball up and puts another 6 yards on it Stokley is taking it to pay-dirt.
The other 2 picks were poor decisions throwing into a window that was never there because he misread the coverage - on the first pick the correct throw is to the outside where has 1 on 1 against the cover 3.

2. Nolan did a good job, but the Atlanta DBs got away with a LOT of contact last night which is one reason coverage looked so good - looking at the tape both Robinson and Samuel routinely made significant contract 10 yards+ downfield, it went uncalled except on the one play where Decker got railed in the back in the red zone.

3. This offensive line can really run block, Beadles especially has been lights out when he pulls he is really dangerous and opens up a ton of lanes - Franklin also consistently moved his guy downfield and on the 4th down TD he managed to move his own guy, disengage and pick up a 2nd block at the 2nd level to spring a huge gap.

4. The run defense has played 2 really strong games, they are not giving up big plays and they are limiting the opposing run games to 1 and 2 yard gains consistently - at no point yesterday did I worry one bit about the Falcons running a sneaking run play and gaining huge yards or taking it to the house.

5. I believe its the coverage that is not effective - Ryan was consistently able to go to his 1st or 2nd read and you are just not going to get a lot of sacks when you only have 2 seconds to get around the offensive line. The interior line is not getting consistent pressure and the blitzing is not working but Miller and Dumervil were both pretty consistently forcing double teams or quick throws.

6. I fully agree, the secondary was not well schemed. We played a ton of zone coverage - I believe this was to avoid horribly matchups on Gonzales, but the result was that we always ended up with either White, Gonzales or Jones matched up on a safety, linebacker or Carter - and those are really bad matchups.

The Roddy White TD was a huge misplay - I believe it was Carter even though Gruden kept saying it was Porter. It looked like Carter was supposed to drop into the short outside zone but for some reason he didn't release the slot WR who was covered by both Porter and Moore which allowed White to go to the pylon uncontested.

Thankfully we are not going to be facing a lot of WR duos that are as good as White and Jones which should make it easier on JDR to scheme. Hopefully we will be using a lot more man coverage on the outside and with Chris Harris hopefully back healthy we should be better than with Carter.

Al Wilson
09-18-2012, 12:00 PM
I've always said it, and I still stand by it: McCoy is a god damn awful offensive coordinator. He should quit and retire.

DivineLegion
09-18-2012, 12:14 PM
6. The secondary was scared last night and looked Like INDY's defense when Peyton struggled. They failed to play the coverage, route, and man like the play design. Tony Carter was awful and putting Porter inside in the nickle was bad. Both were thinking and not playing. I think Carter should have played inside and left Porter outside. However, I can not say that definitively because we never saw what that could have looked like in the game. Maybe Del Rio was scared to death of that when he saw it during the week, but the option he chose was almost as good as Coyer Leaving Roc on Wayne all game back in the day. That is, it failed all night long to produce.


More later....



Med I love your analysis, but I have to disagree. Tony Carter played exceptionally well against Julio Jones, and that's why the Broncos had Porter on the slot. Del Rio obviously didnt feel comfortable with the size matchup of Porter v. Jones/White. Outside of the miscommunication, and BS PI call Tony Carter was a huge surprise.

Action
09-18-2012, 12:46 PM
I've always said it, and I still stand by it: McCoy is a god damn awful offensive coordinator. He should quit and retire.

You need to watch the NFL more... he's by far an awful OC. I used to think he was, but he's shown growth and he's ALSO making at transition from Tebow to Manning.

Awful OC? Check the Bears offense.

Al Wilson
09-18-2012, 01:28 PM
You need to watch the NFL more... he's by far an awful OC. I used to think he was, but he's shown growth and he's ALSO making at transition from Tebow to Manning.

Awful OC? Check the Bears offense.
I've watched plenty of NFL to know that he sucks as an OC and is a ****ty playcaller.

DENVERDUI55
09-18-2012, 02:26 PM
The one area I'm concerned with is a deep threat at WR. It doesn't seem like anyone can consistently get open deep. Decker has been kind of a dissappointment with Manning so far. I expected him to be the main guy but that is clearly DT who is the best WR on the roster.

Rascal
09-18-2012, 02:34 PM
I am of the opinion that we lost this game because we were outplayed and Manning sucked, not because of refs and coaches.

I am of the opinion we lost because of all 4.

Rolandftw
09-18-2012, 02:38 PM
I think Manning thought he was going to have a big night throwing because Grimes was out and he thought they had a bunch of Roc Alexanders playing CB.

Nolan disguised things well, about the same as Pitt does but Manning's arm looked bad on those early deep throws, they were all inaccurate, short, and thrown into coverage. After the 1st one or maybe even the 2nd I would have backed off the down field stuff for a while, they finally did after the 3rd pick but then KM fumbles and kills the chances for a win.

Manning did get his zip back late in the 3rd quarter. I wouldn't sound the alarm yet but Manning has to know what he is capable of before he throws the deep ball in a game. He still has a lot of rehab to go. It will bear watching to see if he starts having pain in his throwing shoulder after games, he has 2 full games now and if he still hasn't regenerated that nerve he is going to get pain and muscle atrophy. If the nerve is 100% he still needs to get the strength back. I still thing week 6 will tell how the rest of the year will go.

Yeah, I'm not freaking out on Manning. Definitely should have stopped after the second one though. I understand it's a process, and Manning will get better as the season progresses too.

Some of it is also I don't think we have too many speed burners on the offensive side of the ball.

CEH
09-18-2012, 03:36 PM
Sports Illustrated cover jinx
We'll be OK until the next one

ludo21
09-18-2012, 04:01 PM
Sports Illustrated cover jinx
We'll be OK until the next one

:notworthy

this has not been stated enough. damn SI

DENVERDUI55
09-18-2012, 04:02 PM
Sports Illustrated cover jinx
We'll be OK until the next one

That was like Plummers first year. He gets on cover and breaks his foot.

lonestar
09-18-2012, 05:34 PM
Yeah, I'm not freaking out on Manning. Definitely should have stopped after the second one though. I understand it's a process, and Manning will get better as the season progresses too.

Some of it is also I don't think we have too many speed burners on the offensive side of the ball.

Caldwell and Willis are burners, I think Hillman can burn it also.. and DT is no slouch we probably have more speed than QB arm.. and then Decker returning Punts seems to be fast enough or he would not be out there..

Speed kills but if you look at the raiders they are not tearing up the league with it..

Hamrob
09-18-2012, 06:12 PM
I thought the offensive coaching sucked. But, I have to give the blame to Manning. Let's face it...he wants to run the hurry-up 100% of the time. How many times are we going to have to listen to Tony Dungy tells us that's what the Broncos needs to do with Manning? I disagree. That's all Dungy knew how to do...and it worked.

At this time in Manning's development, coming back from neck surgeries...they need to ease into it. Use the running game more. Go with Magahee and Ball....and dress Hilman...don't dress Knowshow. Start hitting Ball and Hillman out of the backfield on checkdowns. Then, when you feel that the no-huddle is working...then go for it.

Last night...after the first INT...they should have dialed it back....played a John Fox game...defensive game. If we would have only turned it over twice instead of four times...I'm convinced we would have won that game.

Take away: We looked absolutely pathetic for most of that game. We also were in position to steal it at the end. And the Falcons are a good team! Think how good we can be, once we iron all the kinks out! Youch!!! That had me smiling last night, despite the pain in my gut!