PDA

View Full Version : Rahim Moore is Awful


vancejohnson82
09-17-2012, 09:17 PM
Rahim moore is terrible

24champ
09-17-2012, 09:18 PM
Hilarious!Excellent analysis...

barryr
09-17-2012, 09:20 PM
Nobody looks good tonight.

lolcopter
09-17-2012, 09:22 PM
Because he's had 3 INTs, a fumble, and a million botched calls

vancejohnson82
09-17-2012, 09:22 PM
Thanks 24champ

Want me to break it down??? . 4 catches right on him where he just doesn't understand his assignment. 2 penalties and 3 missed tackles

Drunken.Broncoholic
09-17-2012, 09:23 PM
We knew this last year.

HAT
09-17-2012, 09:24 PM
Because he's had 3 INTs, a fumble, and a million botched calls

No..because he went to UCLA

24champ
09-17-2012, 09:26 PM
Thanks 24champ

Want me to break it down??? . 4 catches right on him where he just doesn't understand his assignment. 2 penalties and 3 missed tackles

I've seen our entire secondary get manhandled and look out of place tonight.

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2012, 09:26 PM
He's not smart out there.

vancejohnson82
09-17-2012, 09:27 PM
He's not smart out there.

he is more lost than most

yerner
09-17-2012, 09:31 PM
he's alright. just needs reps. too early to tell.

LetsGoBroncos
09-17-2012, 09:33 PM
I've noticed a couple good tackles by him and there isn't much more he could have done on that Roddy White catch on third down from their own 5. He was right there

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2012, 09:36 PM
Yep...the others guys are getting paid too. He's a young player.

vancejohnson82
09-17-2012, 09:36 PM
Rahim more has been on nobody more than a few times tonight...i hate calling out a single player and if I was not so pissed and drink I wouldn't have vented. Just upset we may have whiffed on two safety elections on one draft

vancejohnson82
09-17-2012, 09:37 PM
Auto correct up above

NFLBRONCO
09-17-2012, 10:23 PM
Adams and Moore both sucked.

KipCorrington25
09-17-2012, 10:26 PM
Hey, no personal fouls or fines coming that's a good game for him.

oubronco
09-17-2012, 10:28 PM
Carter is better he played pretty damn good last season

bpc
09-17-2012, 10:31 PM
Moore is explosive but doesn't have quick enough awareness yet. Hope that starts translating with experience soon.

Lycan
09-17-2012, 10:33 PM
He did make some nice tackles at least.

But yeah, in coverage he looks lost most of the time. It's weird, that was considered his strength coming out.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-17-2012, 11:00 PM
He is a thousand times better than last year. He's almost backup material.

Captain 'Dre
09-17-2012, 11:04 PM
He is a thousand times better than last year. He's almost backup material.

Ha! That's what you call "damning with feint praise". Ha!

Garcia Bronco
09-17-2012, 11:06 PM
Carter is better he played pretty damn good last season

This.

BowlenBall
09-17-2012, 11:07 PM
I agree with Doc Broncenstein.... Rahim Moore would possibly make the 53-man roster for half the teams in the NFL. What more do you want from a high second round pick?

Action
09-17-2012, 11:09 PM
Moore is explosive but doesn't have quick enough awareness yet. Hope that starts translating with experience soon.

Perfect analysis.

I'm not sure why people are hating on Moore... what exactly did he blow tonight? I mean he botched an Int however he was in the right place at the right time which doesn't translate to suckage.

He didn't miss any tackles, and he was just a little late on some of his help ...

Bronco Rob
09-17-2012, 11:09 PM
I'd like to see Rahim LESS....



<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oShTJ90fC34" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>





:thumbsup:

Action
09-17-2012, 11:10 PM
Carter is better he played pretty damn good last season

Carter is a strong safety IMO, he doesn't have the quickness of a FS that they require in this system. But Carter is a great tackler...

enjolras
09-17-2012, 11:12 PM
Carter is a strong safety IMO, he doesn't have the quickness of a FS that they require in this system. But Carter is a great tackler...

Carter is the best strong safety on the team. Moore just needs more game experience.. he's shown flashes of being very solid and I think he'll keep getting better.

Action
09-17-2012, 11:16 PM
Carter is the best strong safety on the team. Moore just needs more game experience.. he's shown flashes of being very solid and I think he'll keep getting better.

Problem is Carter missed all of TC and he's only a 2nd year player. Mike Adams is a vet and he's usually in the right place, he just isn't a playmaker. I'm pretty positive he's vital to the secondary calls since I see him making calls all the time.

24champ
09-17-2012, 11:20 PM
Carter is the best strong safety on the team. Moore just needs more game experience.. he's shown flashes of being very solid and I think he'll keep getting better.

Spot on take.

This is his second year in the NFL and has shown some flashes of being good.

Armchair Bronco
09-17-2012, 11:22 PM
Rahim Moore != Awesome Safety Name

Steve Atwater == Awesome Safety Name

Tyrone Braxton == Awesome Safety Name

I'm telling you: it's all in the name. And "Rahim Moore" is not an awesome name.

Action
09-17-2012, 11:27 PM
Spot on take.

This is his second year in the NFL and has shown some flashes of being good.

1st year of playing full time, going through training camp...ota etc.

24champ
09-17-2012, 11:32 PM
Perfect analysis.

I'm not sure why people are hating on Moore.. what exactly did he blow tonight? I mean he botched an Int however he was in the right place at the right time which doesn't translate to suckage.

He didn't miss any tackles, and he was just a little late on some of his help ...

Because we live in a microwave society where everyone gets impatient if things don't happen fast enough.

Action
09-17-2012, 11:37 PM
Because we live in a microwave society where everyone gets impatient if things don't happen fast enough.

I can see that but I think people in general tend to make a decision on someone and for whatever reason, it just stays like that forever... no matter what.

Such as Moreno. He will always forever be hated as a Bronco no matter what. No one will give him credit for that play he had that bailed Manning out which turned into like a 14 yard reception.

Another one is J.D. Walton. People really thought that he was going to get replaced by Koppen? Seriously? After working through all the OTA's, training camp, countless hours getting signals, language down with Manning... what he likes to do... you're going to scrap that?

I see people say he's one of the worst center but the truth is, he's been playing like one of the best centers in the league.

Gruden also said tonight that he was one of his favorite centers in the NFL.

But you come on here you would think that we have a scrub there.

Memento
09-17-2012, 11:50 PM
Hey, no personal fouls or fines coming that's a good game for him.

Didn't he have a face mask penalty?

Action
09-17-2012, 11:54 PM
Didn't he have a face mask penalty?

Yeah he did. That should have been a noncall... ever since they got rid of the 5 yard facemask, they only call the 15 yarders now for the extreme face masks... literally had his hand on the mask for less than 1 second which happens all the time and the runner was already down when it happened.

24champ
09-17-2012, 11:59 PM
I can see that but I think people in general tend to make a decision on someone and for whatever reason, it just stays like that forever... no matter what.

Such as Moreno. He will always forever be hated as a Bronco no matter what. No one will give him credit for that play he had that bailed Manning out which turned into like a 14 yard reception.

Another one is J.D. Walton. People really thought that he was going to get replaced by Koppen? Seriously? After working through all the OTA's, training camp, countless hours getting signals, language down with Manning... what he likes to do... you're going to scrap that?

I see people say he's one of the worst center but the truth is, he's been playing like one of the best centers in the league.

Gruden also said tonight that he was one of his favorite centers in the NFL.

But you come on here you would think that we have a scrub there.

The reason is that some posters openly root against guys that McDaniels drafted that are still on the team. (I know Moore wasn't drafted by McD).

Action
09-18-2012, 12:02 AM
The reason is that some posters openly root against guys that McDaniels drafted that are still on the team. (I know Moore wasn't drafted by McD).

J.D. Walton and Zane Beadles are good examples of this.

maher_tyler
09-18-2012, 12:03 AM
Hopefully he continues to imrpove. The last 2 weeks he should have had an int.

Memento
09-18-2012, 12:05 AM
Yeah he did. That should have been a noncall... ever since they got rid of the 5 yard facemask, they only call the 15 yarders now for the extreme face masks... literally had his hand on the mask for less than 1 second which happens all the time and the runner was already down when it happened.

Yeah, you're right. Only wish we had Harris in there on that last play with Jones. Harris is a hell-of-a tackler (realize Harris is slot/corner...hope he's back next week). Moore is not even a good tackler yet (but getting better). Would love to have had the kind of safety who could decleat and send a player like Jones backwards when he's catches the ball two yards away from the first down marker. Instead Moore kind of grazed Jones while still making the tackle.

Action
09-18-2012, 12:11 AM
Yeah, you're right. Only wish we had Harris in there on that last play with Jones. Harris is a hell-of-a tackler (realize Harris is slot/corner...hope he's back next week). Moore is not even a good tackler yet (but getting better). Would love to have had the kind of safety who could decleat and send a player like Jones backwards when he's catches the ball two yards away from the first down marker. Instead Moore kind of grazed Jones while still making the tackle.

Everyone wants that... those are hard to find. You need the body type of that and Rahim Moore doesn't have it (neither does Adams). Quinton Carter is pretty good at tackling people back but he's still not a decleater... not sure he has the body type of that either (he's lanky).

BowlenBall
09-18-2012, 12:13 AM
I can see that but I think people in general tend to make a decision on someone and for whatever reason, it just stays like that forever... no matter what.

Such as Moreno. He will always forever be hated as a Bronco no matter what. No one will give him credit for that play he had that bailed Manning out which turned into like a 14 yard reception.

Another one is J.D. Walton. People really thought that he was going to get replaced by Koppen? Seriously? After working through all the OTA's, training camp, countless hours getting signals, language down with Manning... what he likes to do... you're going to scrap that?

I see people say he's one of the worst center but the truth is, he's been playing like one of the best centers in the league.

Gruden also said tonight that he was one of his favorite centers in the NFL.

But you come on here you would think that we have a scrub there.

Agree with Walton -- I've never understood where all the hate is coming from. Is he an all-pro center? No, but he's average or better, and improving every year.

As for Knowshon -- he lacks burst, lacks top-end speed, gets confused on assignments, and is frequently injured. I'll give him credit for ****that one play**** in the game, but he was an overall net negative in this game and for his career (especially at his salary).

Action
09-18-2012, 12:15 AM
Agree with Walton -- I've never understood where all the hate is coming from. Is he an all-pro center? No, but he's average or better, and improving every year.

As for Knowshon -- he lacks burst, lacks top-end speed, gets confused on assignments, and is frequently injured. I'll give him credit for ****that one play**** in the game, but he was an overall net negative in this game and for his career (especially at his salary).

I can agree that Moreno doesn't play up to his salary or his pick... again though, there is a reason they are confident in him as a 3rd down back. He plays pretty fast, he doesn't "miss" assignments, he's usually always in the right place... always catches the ball. (when I say he plays fast it looks like he knows what he's doing on passing downs, when he runs it, it's a different story)

I'd say he's one of the better 3rd down backs in the league coming out the backfield.

BowlenBall
09-18-2012, 12:18 AM
I can agree that Moreno doesn't play up to his salary or his pick... again though, there is a reason they are confident in him as a 3rd down back. He plays pretty fast, he doesn't "miss" assignments, he's usually always in the right place... always catches the ball. (when I say he plays fast it looks like he knows what he's doing on passing downs, when he runs it, it's a different story)

I'd say he's one of the better 3rd down backs in the league coming out the backfield.

Based on what metric? Not production, that's for damned sure.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, but just wait until Ronnie Hillman hits the field, and then we'll talk about Slowshon in comparison....

menonite
09-18-2012, 12:21 AM
Based on what metric?

Dancing ability. It's like watching Fred Astair...until he falls down.

Action
09-18-2012, 12:22 AM
Based on what metric? Not production, that's for damned sure.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, but just wait until Ronnie Hillman hits the field, and then we'll talk about Slowshon in comparison....

Based on skill really... you're right he doesn't have much production but no one will by being purely a 3rd down back (which is what I'm referring him to)... I'm surprised they haven't run screen plays for him.

I think Ronnie Hillman will be better in the long run... I hope his hamstring is 100% at this point too.

I don't think they drafted him to sit on the inactive for all 16 games.

Then again, I'm pretty sure the statistic for injured RB's per team per season is at least 1, so in the front office's eyes, someone is bound to get injured.

SoCalBronco
09-18-2012, 12:22 AM
I see people say he's one of the worst center but the truth is, he's been playing like one of the best centers in the league.

Gruden also said tonight that he was one of his favorite centers in the NFL.

But you come on here you would think that we have a scrub there.

To be fair, as much as I love the guy, when Gruden is doing an MNF game, he sucks off everyone he talks about and all hell literally had to be breaking loose for him to finally say that Denver was "playing poorly" after it was like 20-0, every offensive drive had ended in an abortion of some kind and even that comment was kind of muted.

JD Walton is a below average center. Probably way below average. There was a recent article where some GM's confirmed the same. They tried to draft his successor at Baylor to replace him and he has flamed out, too. The guy isn't that good. There's literally no reason to be on JD Walton's dick. Ever.

24champ
09-18-2012, 12:23 AM
Based on what metric? Not production, that's for damned sure.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this, but just wait until Ronnie Hillman hits the field, and then we'll talk about Slowshon in comparison....

Ronnie has to learn his assignments before he gets in there on game days, hence "Slowshon" is in the third down back spot.

Action
09-18-2012, 12:26 AM
To be fair, as much as I love the guy, when Gruden is doing an MNF game, he sucks off everyone he talks about and all hell literally had to be breaking loose for him to finally say that Denver was "playing poorly" after it was like 20-0 and even that was kind of muted.

JD Walton is a below average center. There was a recent article where some GM's confirmed the same. They tried to draft his successor at Baylor to replace him and he has flamed out, too. The guy isn't that good. There's literally no reason to be on JD Walton's dick. Ever.

Why exactly isn't he good? He struggled early in his career but I'd say he's at least "good" now.

Manning's pressure has mainly come from the outside so far this season, except tonight where Manny Ramirez got handled a bit.

The interior protection has been pretty good for the most part... there are a few plays from the Pittsburgh game where he completely stood Hampton up, and I can remember 1 where he just pretty much blocked him backwards onto the ground.

Thats a NT for a 3-4 2 gap team...

Vegas_Bronco
09-18-2012, 12:27 AM
Dancing ability. It's like watching Fred Astair...until he falls down.

Double jointed ankles...its gotta be something like that. Makes him a solid sideline pixey dancer.

SoCalBronco
09-18-2012, 12:27 AM
Part of it I can't blame on Knowshon (the part where despite the fact he is a good pass reciever, they are NOT using him in the passing game yet when he gets in there). The other part is that he lacks mental toughness. You just KNOW there will be a critical point in the game where Moreno will make a massive mistake and then he'll be running scared the rest of the game that he focuses so much on not making the same error that he can't just play freely. He needs to get his ass in gear.

Memento
09-18-2012, 12:27 AM
Everyone wants that... those are hard to find. You need the body type of that and Rahim Moore doesn't have it (neither does Adams). Quinton Carter is pretty good at tackling people back but he's still not a decleater... not sure he has the body type of that either (he's lanky).

Harris isn't big. Great tackler though. Kind of a lost art.

Action
09-18-2012, 12:30 AM
Harris isn't big. Great tackler though. Kind of a lost art.

Harris is a CB (I know he played S which probably helped his tackling)... but yes I consider Harris to be one of the better tacklers "stout" tacklers.

BowlenBall
09-18-2012, 12:33 AM
Ronnie has to learn his assignments before he gets in there on game days, hence "Slowshon" is in the third down back spot.

Ronnie Hillman has never blown an assignment in a regular-season game. Never!

(this is the same logic as saying Knowshon is one of the better 3rd-down backs in the league)

pricejj
09-18-2012, 12:45 AM
Rahim moore is terrible

I don't agree...only BDawk could have made that stop short of the 1st down. Rahim Moore is generally in the right spot, and will continue to improve...time to start getting some of those INT's...

BowlenBall
09-18-2012, 12:47 AM
I don't agree...only BDawk could have made that stop short of the 1st down. Rahim Moore is generally in the right spot, and will continue to improve...time to start getting some of those INT's...

I honestly hope you're right, as Denver desperately needs a playmaker back there, and has a lot invested in him.

That being said... wishing for something doesn't make it so.

24champ
09-18-2012, 12:50 AM
Ronnie Hillman has never blown an assignment in a regular-season game. Never!


Hillman is over his hamstring injury but is still learning how to pass protect, so Willis McGahee and Knowshon Moreno will carry the load.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7440/ronnie-hillman



last week from Rotoworld.

Coach John Fox said rookie RB Ronnie Hillman was inactive Sunday because he's behind both physically and mentally.

Hillman pulled a hamstring during training camp and has struggled badly in pass protection. He's tumbled down the depth chart, finding himself buried behind Willis McGahee, Knowshon Moreno and Lance Ball. Hillman is just a Dynasty stash.
Source: Denver Post

ZONA
09-18-2012, 01:19 AM
Perfect analysis.

I'm not sure why people are hating on Moore... what exactly did he blow tonight? I mean he botched an Int however he was in the right place at the right time which doesn't translate to suckage.

He didn't miss any tackles, and he was just a little late on some of his help ...

That's the way I saw it also. He's starting to slowly figure it out. If he would have had that pick six, people would feel differently. He was just a little late on some things but tackled well. Do I think he's starter material for a championship team, no, but I think he's on the right track and improving and hopefully later in the season he's much closer then he is right now. Giving up on him, with really nothing better to replace him with right now, would be completely foolish.

pricejj
09-18-2012, 01:19 AM
I honestly hope you're right, as Denver desperately needs a playmaker back there, and has a lot invested in him.

That being said... wishing for something doesn't make it so.

Rahim Moore is a 2nd round 22 year-old cover Safety, who gets fined everytime he tackles somebody hard.

I ain't mad at him. He made a good play. In time, Champ will teach him how to shut down big WR's in their tracks.

BowlenBall
09-18-2012, 01:25 AM
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7440/ronnie-hillman



last week from Rotoworld.

Coach John Fox said rookie RB Ronnie Hillman was inactive Sunday because he's behind both physically and mentally.

Hillman pulled a hamstring during training camp and has struggled badly in pass protection. He's tumbled down the depth chart, finding himself buried behind Willis McGahee, Knowshon Moreno and Lance Ball. Hillman is just a Dynasty stash.
Source: Denver Post

You might want to parse my original statement a little better, Champ.

"Ronnie Hillman has never blown an assignment in a regular-season game. Never!"

My point being that Knowshow supporters are using similar logic to advocate for him.... I've never seen that he's an adequate 3rd down back in a game. Hell, Lance Ball showed better than him tonight in his one play.

Also, I'm not sure that Rotoworld should be considered a 'source'.

BowlenBall
09-18-2012, 01:28 AM
Sorry for highjacking this thread, by the way... it's supposed to be about how awful Rahim Moore is, and I keep going on about how awful Moreno is.

My apologies.

24champ
09-18-2012, 01:45 AM
You might want to parse my original statement a little better, Champ.

"Ronnie Hillman has never blown an assignment in a regular-season game. Never!"

My point being that Knowshow supporters are using similar logic to advocate for him.... I've never seen that he's an adequate 3rd down back in a game. Hell, Lance Ball showed better than him tonight in his one play.

Also, I'm not sure that Rotoworld should be considered a 'source'.

Roto gets the snippets from the DPO. Point is, Hillman won't see the field until he catches up on pass blocking and his assignments. Until then, Broncos are rolling with McGahee, Moreno, and Ball.

Aside from the fumble, Moreno looked decent for a third down back. He caught some passes for nice gains, especially at the end. I think he compliments McGahee just fine.


That Hillman has endured some ups and downs as a blocker is no surprise to offensive coordinator Mike McCoy, who described pass protection as "the hardest part" of a rookie runner's work.

"Without a doubt, because you see so many different pressures and people coming from different angles and disguising things and hiding things," McCoy said. "A running back, you hand him the ball, he's going to run. But it's the protection that's a major difference, I would say."

Moreno, on the other hand, has flourished in that role, McCoy said.

"He's always been a pretty good blocker," McCoy said. "He's never been afraid to stick his nose in there and fit up someone who's coming through on a pressure."

Hillman still fits in the Broncos' long-term plans, but for now, he'll be given time to develop -- which could mean time on the sideline during game days, unless the Broncos choose to activate four running backs. They never activated more than three last season.

"I think (Hillman) is like every rookie on the football team. There's so much more that we're doing right now offensively than what he did in college, it's going to be a day-to-day basis with him. He's going to learn something new every day. There's going to be a different look, or we're going to add things from week to week in game plans.

"We're not slowing down for anybody now. So you're not just getting the generic looks any more; we're throwing a lot at you and he's going to learn and get better every day."

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/nfl-rapidreports/20081192/for-ronnie-hillman-to-be-in-broncos-rb-mix-his-blocking-must-improve


So yeah....

Action
09-18-2012, 02:00 AM
My point being that Knowshow supporters are using similar logic to advocate for him.... I've never seen that he's an adequate 3rd down back in a game. Hell, Lance Ball showed better than him tonight in his one play.


The coaching staff has spent thousands of hours with Moreno... I'm sure they know who the best RB's on the team are for certain situations.

Did you miss that play where Knowshon bailed Manning out?

Archer81
09-18-2012, 03:06 AM
The coaching staff has spent thousands of hours with Moreno... I'm sure they know who the best RB's on the team are for certain situations.

Did you miss that play where Knowshon bailed Manning out?


And that is what is frustrating about Moreno. He shows little flashes of skill, and then does things like getting run over on pass protection or fumbling the ball.

As for the OP and Moore being awful...maybe he is. But from what I remember of the game, I dont recall him screwing up badly.

:Broncos:

BowlenBall
09-18-2012, 03:39 AM
Aside from the fumble, Moreno looked decent for a third down back. He caught some passes for nice gains, especially at the end.

One pass, actually -- for 12 yards (a low standard for a 'nice gain'). He also had 3 rushes for a whopping 2 yards. And one crushing fumble at a critical juncture that possibly cost us the game.

Ball, by comparison, had one reception for 17, and one rush for 4 yards. And he plays special teams quite well.

Again, my overarching point is that Knowshon is not value added over replacement, whether the replacement is Ball, Hillman, Jeremiah Johnson, or Xavier Omon. Especially in light of his salary, his constant injuries, and his license plate which says "SAUCED". I'm tired of it, and ready for the Broncos to move on.

go_broncos
09-18-2012, 03:43 AM
Moreno - Sometimes i feel like he is playing for opposite team..Another Mcd blunder.
The more we cut Mcd players the better our team will be.

vancejohnson82
09-18-2012, 06:23 AM
sticking by my original statement....rahim Moore is going to cost us a few games this year

lolcopter
09-18-2012, 07:39 AM
Rahim Moore has a better chance of catching a ball than dip**** Eric Decker

Bmore Manning
09-18-2012, 09:01 AM
Moore did not drive on the ball on that critical third down. It was really frustrating. I remember watching ED Reed jump a very similar play against NE in the playoffs, he drove hard and broke up the pass. Obviously we are talking about a perennial pro bowler compared to a young kid. But you need to have awareness to break on the player and TACKLE him short.. Why he was playing for an intermediate pass is beyond me...

CEH
09-18-2012, 09:49 AM
Moore did not drive on the ball on that critical third down. It was really frustrating. I remember watching ED Reed jump a very similar play against NE in the playoffs, he drove hard and broke up the pass. Obviously we are talking about a perennial pro bowler compared to a young kid. But you need to have awareness to break on the player and TACKLE him short.. Why he was playing for an intermediate pass is beyond me...

Moore made a good play on Jones but we needed a great play and like the great safeties they show up and make great plays

Is there a bad defense out there with a great safety? Can't think of one so IMO this D is one great safety away from being eleite

Bigdawg26
09-18-2012, 10:24 AM
Moore made a good play on Jones but we needed a great play and like the great safeties they show up and make great plays

Is there a bad defense out there with a great safety? Can't think of one so IMO this D is one great safety away from being eleite

Yeah but what your forgetting is that Jones is 6-3 215, and a physical WR. Moore is only 6-0 200 (soak and wet), and he made a pretty good tackle on him. Moore is coming up and hitting people (unlike last year and in college), but he's small and has to learn the position. He's improved from last year in his tackling and in position he just has to let it come together. In saying all this, I think the defense played great considering the circumstances. Falcons didn't really score like talking about it considering where they got ball after the turnovers, and with the crowd behind.

vancejohnson82
09-18-2012, 10:26 AM
I'm just not impressed with his awareness and spatial coverage at all....hes always a yard and a half away from where he needs to be

Chris
09-18-2012, 10:32 AM
There's literally no reason to be on JD Walton's dick. Ever.

Would you like this postmarked to his wife?

Mediator12
09-18-2012, 10:59 AM
I'm just not impressed with his awareness and spatial coverage at all....hes always a yard and a half away from where he needs to be

Playing safety is all about being mentally quick with deciphering what is happening. Way too often, you see the amazing physical specimens at safety who can never understand how they need to play to do their job. That is where Moore is right now. He is still mentally slow and it shows in how he does his job.

You hope he starts to get it and changing schemes again never helps young safeties acclimate to the NFL. Look no further than the William Moore for ATL last night. He had the exact same struggles in ATL the last few years and was Extremely similar to Rahim Moore coming out of College. He played out of his mind last night and playing a very tough scheme that they had never played before he made plays.

I hope the kid gets it, but I am not happy with his progress to date. He negates all his athletic ability with being slow mentally to react. that has to get better if he wants to continue being a starter. I was disappointed with him being hesitant in his reads last night and not trusting what he saw. Indecision allows the other team to make big plays and he did plenty of that last night on first glance. He was not pathetic, but he also was not an asset in either the run or pass game either.

vancejohnson82
09-18-2012, 11:08 AM
Thanks Med....you verbalized what I was frustrated with. He was routinely put in position to make plays but never took it upon himself to make an aggressive jump on the ball or receiver. I expected it of him last year but was hoping to see a jump this year. . Its frustrating to see the coaching staff calling solid schemes and the athletes not doing that little bit extra to make it work....at least when Mays is out of position it is on account of him being overly aggressive

Dedhed
09-18-2012, 11:10 AM
I hope the kid gets it, but I am not happy with his progress to date.

I don't know how you can make this statement. Given where he was at this time last year, his progress is impressive. He's not to the point of being a Pro Bowler by any means, but his progress in a year's time is undeniable.

Last year he was completely lost. This year he's still occasionally late to react, but he's also been around the ball much more, been out of position much less, and has come close to making game changing plays on a handful of plays.

He was a disappointment last year, but his growth curve has to make you lean towards being optimistic.

Mediator12
09-18-2012, 11:56 AM
I don't know how you can make this statement. Given where he was at this time last year, his progress is impressive. He's not to the point of being a Pro Bowler by any means, but his progress in a year's time is undeniable.

Last year he was completely lost. This year he's still occasionally late to react, but he's also been around the ball much more, been out of position much less, and has come close to making game changing plays on a handful of plays.

He was a disappointment last year, but his growth curve has to make you lean towards being optimistic.

Its not impressive, its minimal. He still blows coverages and arrives late to the play design. He is being more analytical and less reactive so he does not make a mistake. However, by doing so, he is not getting the job done at all. Great, he made the tackle 7 yards down the field on the final third and five. However, not making the tackle before the first down or being in position to make the play on the ball is a missed assignment, if the coverage was truly his. Hard to say, I have not looked at it again.

However, that was representative to his play last night. A half step late and a dollar short of getting the job done. Sure, Tony Carter did his best Roc Alexander impression all night long, but Moore is a starter and he was routinely unable to execute his assignments until after the play was made. that is playing below replacement value for a safety.

That is why I am still disappointed with him. You can not second guess all night long as a safety or you will fail to do your job and make plays. Being in the zipcode or making a tackle 7 yards down the field on third and 5 is just not good enough at this level.

Dedhed
09-18-2012, 12:48 PM
Its not impressive, its minimal. He still blows coverages and arrives late to the play design. He is being more analytical and less reactive so he does not make a mistake. However, by doing so, he is not getting the job done at all. Great, he made the tackle 7 yards down the field on the final third and five. However, not making the tackle before the first down or being in position to make the play on the ball is a missed assignment, if the coverage was truly his. Hard to say, I have not looked at it again.

However, that was representative to his play last night. A half step late and a dollar short of getting the job done. Sure, Tony Carter did his best Roc Alexander impression all night long, but Moore is a starter and he was routinely unable to execute his assignments until after the play was made. that is playing below replacement value for a safety.

That is why I am still disappointed with him. You can not second guess all night long as a safety or you will fail to do your job and make plays. Being in the zipcode or making a tackle 7 yards down the field on third and 5 is just not good enough at this level.I disagree. He played in a shorthanded secondary that held the Falcons, who have perhaps the best WR tandem in the NFL, and a great TE, to 219 yards passing.

He's made huge strides since last season, and is in his second game within a new scheme. He's no where near a finished product, but he has come a long way in a year's time and shown far greater than "minimal" progress.

Mediator12
09-18-2012, 01:03 PM
I disagree. He played in a shorthanded secondary that held the Falcons, who have perhaps the best WR tandem in the NFL, and a great TE, to 219 yards passing.

He's made huge strides since last season, and is in his second game within a new scheme. He's no where near a finished product, but he has come a long way in a year's time and shown far greater than "minimal" progress.

Hey, I am fine with that analysis. It's based on your facts.

I just believe mine more. Until he becomes functional as FS, he will remain disappointing to me. Being almost good enough to start is still not enough progress for me.

gyldenlove
09-18-2012, 01:15 PM
Its not impressive, its minimal. He still blows coverages and arrives late to the play design. He is being more analytical and less reactive so he does not make a mistake. However, by doing so, he is not getting the job done at all. Great, he made the tackle 7 yards down the field on the final third and five. However, not making the tackle before the first down or being in position to make the play on the ball is a missed assignment, if the coverage was truly his. Hard to say, I have not looked at it again.

However, that was representative to his play last night. A half step late and a dollar short of getting the job done. Sure, Tony Carter did his best Roc Alexander impression all night long, but Moore is a starter and he was routinely unable to execute his assignments until after the play was made. that is playing below replacement value for a safety.

That is why I am still disappointed with him. You can not second guess all night long as a safety or you will fail to do your job and make plays. Being in the zipcode or making a tackle 7 yards down the field on third and 5 is just not good enough at this level.

Moore has been the best safety of the two starters this year against the run, he has made several good form tackles close to the line against the run. On the flipside he is lost in pass coverage and often arrives late or fails to close the gap leaving the reciever to make the reception before he arrives on the scene.

He needs to trust his athletic ability more and be a little more reckless some times, but he has definitely improved the run stopping aspect of his game as well as his tackling both of which were suspect last year.

maher_tyler
09-18-2012, 01:18 PM
Hey, I am fine with that analysis. It's based on your facts.

I just believe mine more. Until he becomes functional as FS, he will remain disappointing to me. Being almost good enough to start is still not enough progress for me.

Your being a little to critical imo. I see improvement. With how critical you are, you'd think he's been in the league for 4-5 years. He should have at least 2 ints if he could just hold onto the ball. No better way to get better than some OJT...

Dedhed
09-18-2012, 01:24 PM
Hey, I am fine with that analysis. It's based on your facts.

I just believe mine more. Until he becomes functional as FS, he will remain disappointing to me. Being almost good enough to start is still not enough progress for me.

I agree that he's still a below average NFL safety, but I do believe he's functional; he is starting after all. Coming from last year when he looked hopeless, I can't help but to lean towards being optimistic. Particularly given his upside potential.

yerner
09-18-2012, 01:30 PM
not one piece of evidence in this thread yet.

Beantown Bronco
09-18-2012, 01:32 PM
not one piece of evidence in this thread yet.

Probably because people don't spend hours putting together youtube videos of guys NOT making plays.

lolcopter
09-18-2012, 01:35 PM
x-quote for relevance


Marquand Manuel, Marlon McCree

TheReverend
09-18-2012, 01:37 PM
I get more bullish on Rahim Moore with each game

Mediator12
09-18-2012, 01:38 PM
Your being a little to critical imo. I see improvement. With how critical you are, you'd think he's been in the league for 4-5 years. He should have at least 2 ints if he could just hold onto the ball. No better way to get better than some OJT...

I am not being too critical, I am actually trying to give the kid a break. I routinely look for checks when he makes the play and executes his responsibility. Those checks are fewer than need to be when combined with the minuses.

He is still getting way too many minuses, and not enough checks, let alone pluses. He grades out below replacement value, despite the fact that he has made some better plays when he tackles. That is the one area he has made improvement. He is not missing tackles as much as he did last year. However, he is not making tackles that execute the play and keep the offense off the pace. Therefore, those tackles are normal plays and get a check, not a plus in the grade book.

He has improved one area and still is behind in several more. I do not see any growth in the pass coverage area, in fact I see a lot of regression and self doubt. He has to diagnose better and react instinctively to the situation, down, distance, and route in both run and passing games.

24champ
09-18-2012, 02:25 PM
Moore has been the best safety of the two starters this year against the run, he has made several good form tackles close to the line against the run. On the flipside he is lost in pass coverage and often arrives late or fails to close the gap leaving the reciever to make the reception before he arrives on the scene.

He needs to trust his athletic ability more and be a little more reckless some times, but he has definitely improved the run stopping aspect of his game as well as his tackling both of which were suspect last year.

People really underrate Moore against the run. There was 1-2 times last night, maybe more, where Moore stopped Turner from breaking loose for a huge gain, possible TD. Huge improvement over last year and once he becomes more well rounded, he will be a really good safety for us.

bpc
09-18-2012, 02:40 PM
I think it's fair to be critical of Moore. He sat his whole rookie season after screwing up the first couple games. I think the coaches decided, this kid's head is going to way to fast for his body. Call it his redshirt year. This year is his first real playing time so to expect him to be perfect out the gates is simply too hopeful. He's finally starting this year and I think he's performed OK. Obviously, when you watch the guy he flashes playmaking ability and explosiveness we haven't seen before in our secondary for a long time. He has a good build, and great athletic ability. As Med pointed out, he still a step slow. In fact, I think he's several steps slow but his athletic ability allows him to make up ground more quickly than most safeties. If he can get his mind and body working on the same level, the guy is going to be a heck of a player. Time will tell if he gets it. If he does, i think he could be a damn good safety. Lots of room for improvement this year so far, but that's our whole team. Moore's also gone against two of the better QB's in this league the past two weeks and more than held his own in Big Ben and Matt Ryan. He'll be challenged again against Houston but I feel pretty positive that he will get better as the year goes on. If he does, this defense and team are going to be pretty lethal having a safety with his range playing behind Champ and Porter, along with our pass rush.

Tombstone RJ
09-18-2012, 02:45 PM
Your being a little to critical imo. I see improvement. With how critical you are, you'd think he's been in the league for 4-5 years. He should have at least 2 ints if he could just hold onto the ball. No better way to get better than some OJT...

Mediator is right, Rahim is a mental midget out there and is constantly out of position. When he's not out of position he's going for the ESPN highlight big hit instead of a tackle.

Without Dawkins holding his hand he's struggling. Last year the Broncos could fall back on Dawkins, this year, it's all Rahim and he's not doing very good.

24champ
09-18-2012, 03:40 PM
Jack Del Rio has been quoted saying Moore is on the right track, doing the right things and that he covers a lot of the field. Obviously the coaches think he's making the progression on the field.

Tombstone RJ
09-18-2012, 03:45 PM
Jack Del Rio has been quoted saying Moore is on the right track, doing the right things and that he covers a lot of the field. Obviously the coaches think he's making the progression on the field.

perhaps, but rarely will a coach speak ill of a player to the press. If there is an issue it will be handled in the film room and on the practice field.

24champ
09-18-2012, 03:45 PM
Mediator is right, Rahim is a mental midget out there and is constantly out of position. When he's not out of position he's going for the ESPN highlight big hit instead of a tackle.

Without Dawkins holding his hand he's struggling. Last year the Broncos could fall back on Dawkins, this year, it's all Rahim and he's not doing very good.

Well...that's completely inaccurate.

He's doing a lot better this year, especially with a full off season which he did not have last year. He's getting better every game. His play against the run has vastly improved, and he's getting really close to making plays, just need to capitalize on them.

You'd think with the pathetic posts in this thread, that Moore got Roc Alexander'd last night.

24champ
09-18-2012, 03:47 PM
perhaps, but rarely will a coach speak ill of a player to the press. If there is an issue it will be handled in the film room and on the practice field.

JDR calls out players when they need to be called out. See: Robert Ayers.

Tombstone RJ
09-18-2012, 03:48 PM
Well...that's completely inaccurate.

He's doing a lot better this year, especially with a full off season which he did not have last year. He's getting better every game. His play against the run has vastly improved, and he's getting really close to making plays, just need to capitalize on them.

You'd think with the pathetic posts in this thread, that Moore got Roc Alexander'd last night.

I've been a "wait and see" poster when it comes to Moore and I'm hopeful he does got better. I think you are right in that he's playing the run aggressively which is great. But I also think he's making a lot of mistakes in coverage. Fact is, it will probably take him much longer to learn coverages and be comfortable with his assignments.

Tombstone RJ
09-18-2012, 03:53 PM
JDR calls out players when they need to be called out. See: Robert Ayers.

I remember he praised Hunter more than he openly criticized Ayers. His glowing remarks about Hunter compared to his luke warm remarks about Ayers is what suprised many people but point taken.

Bmore Manning
09-18-2012, 05:29 PM
He's a starter in the NFL, he will be held to a higher standard despite his youth. Sure he has great athleticism and has improved in run support. But on a critical third down, the game is on the line a first down is needed. Yet Moore was not in a position to play for stopping the first down. That's the ball game, the QB isn't going down the field in that situation, that rarely happens! The high percentage play is to get the first or end up punting and killing more clock, not taking a shot down the field risking and incompletion or int. having said that Moore should have driven to anything developing in front of him, yet he was a little late, which is how his play was all night as Med also pointed out.

And this defense that everyone thinks played great, time after time could not get off the field on third down and could not generate pressure.

Action
09-18-2012, 05:34 PM
He's a starter in the NFL, he will be held to a higher standard despite his youth. Sure he has great athleticism and has improved in run support. But on a critical third down, the game is on the line a first down is needed. Yet Moore was not in a position to play for stopping the first down. That's the ball game, the QB isn't going down the field in that situation, that rarely happens! The high percentage play is to get the first or end up punting and killing more clock, not taking a shot down the field risking and incompletion or int. having said that Moore should have driven to anything developing in front of him, yet he was a little late, which is how his play was all night as Med also pointed out.

And this defense that everyone thinks played great, time after time could not get off the field on third down and could not generate pressure.

We are really blaming that last play on Rahim Moore.... :spit:

It's just sad what some Broncos fans see when they watch games.

Bmore Manning
09-18-2012, 05:42 PM
We are really blaming that last play on Rahim Moore.... :spit:

It's just sad what some Broncos fans see when they watch games.

It's sad what some don't see.. Take the orange glasses off. I DVR every game and watch play after play.. Who would you like to put the blame on? It was a blown coverage, with confusion off the line of scrimmage after a timeout. Moore was floating around to deep to make a play on anyone pushing for the yard marker. While sole blame does not fall on him, your kidding yourself to think a better safety doesn't drive on the ball and make that play. As I pointed out Ed Reed earlier, there are plenty of safeties who drive to the ball and make the stick.

Action
09-18-2012, 05:52 PM
It's sad what some don't see.. Take the orange glasses off. I DVR every game and watch play after play.. Who would you like to put the blame on? It was a blown coverage, with confusion off the line of scrimmage after a timeout. Moore was floating around to deep to make a play on anyone pushing for the yard marker. While sole blame does not fall on him, your kidding yourself to think a better safety doesn't drive on the ball and make that play. As I pointed out Ed Reed earlier, there are plenty of safeties who drive to the ball and make the stick.

If you can't figure out who the blown coverage was on, then your analysis of anything, let alone Moore being the problem on that play, is completely invalid.

Does a better safety make the play? MAYBE. But no one is saying Moore is an elite Safety.

So if you need to use someone like Ed Reed to make your point, you obviously are completely missing the point of what people are saying.

Action
09-18-2012, 05:56 PM
Let me also add, I've watched the play numerous times... I don't know where Moore came from, I need to see coach cam from up top, but he's already running towards Julio as the ball is in the air.

R8R H8R
09-18-2012, 06:20 PM
If JDR agrees with the assessment of Moore's critics, that he "sucks", he will bench him. Allen did it last year, and JDR will not hesitate to do it this year if he thinks he can improve the team by replacing him.

Until then, we can assume that he is giving Moore some leway for growing pains--just like they would do if he was a QB or LT or any other position that takes time to learn at the pro level.

Mogulseeker
09-18-2012, 06:30 PM
If JDR agrees with the assessment of Moore's critics, that he "sucks", he will bench him. Allen did it last year, and JDR will not hesitate to do it this year if he thinks he can improve the team by replacing him.

Until then, we can assume that he is giving Moore some leway for growing pains--just like they would do if he was a QB or LT or any other position that takes time to learn at the pro level.

Rahim has oodles of talent. But he can't tackle, can't catch, has poor positioning and ball skills. Talented guy, no skill.

In short, he is the Tim Tebow of safeties.

Bmore Manning
09-18-2012, 06:37 PM
If you can't figure out who the blown coverage was on, then your analysis of anything, let alone Moore being the problem on that play, is completely invalid.

Does a better safety make the play? MAYBE. But no one is saying Moore is an elite Safety.

So if you need to use someone like Ed Reed to make your point, you obviously are completely missing the point of what people are saying.

Think you should read what I wrote earlier. I can name young safety's who drive to the ball better than Moore. That's the problem that you don't know where he came from.. What is he doing out of the play initially? The play is in front of him not behind him. Seriously what about Moore's game gives ringing praise to being a starter? I wish Moore played with MORE heart, intelligence, poise, and tenacity.. At some point physical attributes being relied upon only has got to go!

Tombstone RJ
09-18-2012, 06:42 PM
Think you should read what I wrote earlier. I can name young safety's who drive to the ball better than Moore. That's the problem that you don't know where he came from.. What is he doing out of the play initially? The play is in front of him not behind him. Seriously what about Moore's game gives ringing praise to being a starter? I wish Moore played with MORE heart, intelligence, poise, and tenacity.. At some point physical attributes being relied upon only has got to go!

I think it was Jones who caught the pass and he was completely uncovered. There was no one around him, he crossed over the middle and caught the ball with room to spare. Now, who's is supposed to either cover Jones or cover that zone area? Is that the LBer's responsibility? If it's man, no way, you don't put a LBer on Jones. Was it a zone coverage gaff? If so, then maybe Moore is not to blame so much.

Lestat
09-18-2012, 06:43 PM
he's improved a lot since last season. his play recognition isn't where it needs to be but he's a damn sight better at tackling than last year and he's in spots to make plays on the ball.

he's got improvements to make for sure, but he's getting better.

R8R H8R
09-18-2012, 07:09 PM
Rahim has oodles of talent. But he can't tackle, can't catch, has poor positioning and ball skills. Talented guy, no skill.

In short, he is the Tim Tebow of safeties.

That is a myth this year. As has been said many times in this thread alone, this is the area he has really improved. Does he need more? Yes, of course.

However, like I said, if JDR agrees with you, then he will be replaced soon. OTOH, if JDR believes that these "oodles of talent" just need time and nurturing, then he will stay on the field as long as he is healthy to get the needed reps to allow improvement.

Besides, I'm not too sure being a "Tebow of safeties" is all that bad of a thing.

Hamrob
09-18-2012, 07:25 PM
I thought Moore looked lost most of the time. He takes poor angles and is a very poor tackler.

I understand that not one play or one player can cost a team a game, but the fact is:

Had Moore made a stick tackle on 3rd down during Atl last possession. They would have had to punt with 2 minutes left in the game. Had that happened...I think we win the game.

One stick tackle...and we win. He couldn't get it done instead...he hits the guy, the guy goes forward for 3 more yards....1st down...game over.

(What Would Atwater Have Done )WWAHD.....

Hamrob
09-18-2012, 07:32 PM
If you can't figure out who the blown coverage was on, then your analysis of anything, let alone Moore being the problem on that play, is completely invalid.

Does a better safety make the play? MAYBE. But no one is saying Moore is an elite Safety.

So if you need to use someone like Ed Reed to make your point, you obviously are completely missing the point of what people are saying.Man, I honestly cannot see your point.

Moore is a SAFETY in the NFL. His job is to drive on the ball and STICK the receiver. The receiver made the catch and Moore got there in front of the marker. If he wraps up (you know that technique they teach you in Yaffle), then he makes the tackle in front of the marker and Atlanta has to punt. Instead, he throws himself at the receiver trying to get a knockdown...and the receiver brushes him off and dives forward past the first down marker...easily getting the 1st down. Then he smiles about it. That is bush league.

Say whatever you want....but, defending that play.........is ignorance.

Bmore Manning
09-18-2012, 07:34 PM
I thought Moore looked lost most of the time. He takes poor angles and is a very poor tackler.

I understand that not one play or one player can cost a team a game, but the fact is:

Had Moore made a stick tackle on 3rd down during Atl last possession. They would have had to punt with 2 minutes left in the game. Had that happened...I think we win the game.

One stick tackle...and we win. He couldn't get it done instead...he hits the guy, the guy goes forward for 3 more yards....1st down...game over.

(What Would Atwater Have Done )WWAHD.....

This is exactly what I was trying to convey.

AmericanBroncFan
09-18-2012, 07:48 PM
Moore is getting better. Whats the alternitive? Q. Carter is slow. J. Leanard had concrete boots on his punt returns. Moore has been close now in two games to making game changing plays.

TheReverend
09-18-2012, 07:51 PM
Moore is getting better. Whats the alternitive? Q. Carter is slow. J. Leanard had concrete boots on his punt returns. Moore has been close now in two games to making game changing plays.

In the 4.5s is plenty fast for a safety.

oubronco
09-18-2012, 07:55 PM
I still believe Quintin Carter is better and would rather have a sure tackler who can catch in there

Broncos4Life
09-19-2012, 02:42 AM
Bottom line is, Moore is not a play-maker, and is not as advertised. He was supposed to be the ballhawk of the draft. So far all he's been is a gifted athlete with bad instincts. Basically a back up.

There have been many a safety on this team since the great DS and SA. Unless Moore gets his **** together and does something this year, or better, within the next 2-3 weeks, JDR has to bench him and insert someone that can make plays.

Like OU says. QC is better and he can tackle and catch. If Moore ever puts it together he'd be the best safety on the team, but as of now hes probably 3rd at best.

Prodigal19
09-19-2012, 06:06 AM
Bottom line is, Moore is not a play-maker, and is not as advertised. He was supposed to be the ballhawk of the draft. So far all he's been is a gifted athlete with bad instincts. Basically a back up.

There have been many a safety on this team since the great DS and SA. Unless Moore gets his **** together and does something this year, or better, within the next 2-3 weeks, JDR has to bench him and insert someone that can make plays.

Like OU says. QC is better and he can tackle and catch. If Moore ever puts it together he'd be the best safety on the team, but as of now hes probably 3rd at best.

Bottom line is that this is only his SECOND year in the NFL. Give him some time. He has obviously progressed tremendously over last year. Im not sure why you say he cant tackle, as I can only remember 1 or 2 missed tackles so far this year. His technique has improved tremendously though. As he becomes more confident with his tackling he will be able to tackle harder and more aggressively.

He proved in college that he has good hands, he just hasnt shown it in the NFL yet. Just give him some time to adjust. Once again, this is only his second year. Most safeties take a few years to gain the awareness needed to be an impact player in the NFL. QC is a good safety but Moore's ceiling is MUCH higher.

fwf
09-19-2012, 10:35 AM
Rahim has oodles of talent. But he can't tackle, can't catch, has poor positioning and ball skills. Talented guy, no skill.

In short, he is the Tim Tebow of safeties.

I bet Tebow could play some safety. I'd say better then Rahim "The Latrine" Moore

24champ
09-19-2012, 10:37 AM
If you can't figure out who the blown coverage was on, then your analysis of anything, let alone Moore being the problem on that play, is completely invalid.

Does a better safety make the play? MAYBE. But no one is saying Moore is an elite Safety.

So if you need to use someone like Ed Reed to make your point, you obviously are completely missing the point of what people are saying.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

DENVERDUI55
09-19-2012, 10:52 AM
We are really blaming that last play on Rahim Moore.... :spit:

It's just sad what some Broncos fans see when they watch games.

Well he needed to realize situation and get jones down after that catch. It didn't matter if Atlanta picked up the first by an inch or 50 yards game was over. There was time to break and stop that first down.

Harvitz81
09-19-2012, 11:00 AM
Well he needed to realize situation and get jones down after that catch. It didn't matter if Atlanta picked up the first by an inch or 50 yards game was over. There was time to break and stop that first down.

Lol, and you think if Julio Jones didn't make the 1st because Rahim Drove him back that the Atlanta fans would be calling for his head as well. I mean he has to know the situation and to get a 1st there.

I feel all these Moore threads have started because he didn't stop Julio short of the 1st on that last play. You know what, Atlanta's players are paid to play as well.

Without seeing the whole field, who even knows who is responsible for covering Jones. It was a 3 yard crossing route with our LBs blitzing. Is that the Safety? Nickel corner? Hell, maybe Moore was playing the deep end and came up all the way recognizing the route and just didn't have time to close fast enough.

Moore has been decent so far. He is tackling better and seems to be around the ball more than last year. Christ, this is only what - his 5th or 6th started game? Classic OM calling for a draftees head before they have time to adjust to the speed of the NFL.

Me, I'll wait until the end of year 3 and place judgement then. Just look at Beadles - last year and the year prior people were calling for a replacement. Now he is playing really well and is a solid starter. Give it time people.

vancejohnson82
09-19-2012, 11:07 AM
Lol, and you think if Julio Jones didn't make the 1st because Rahim Drove him back that the Atlanta fans would be calling for his head as well. I mean he has to know the situation and to get a 1st there.

I feel all these Moore threads have started because he didn't stop Julio short of the 1st on that last play. You know what, Atlanta's players are paid to play as well.

Without seeing the whole field, who even knows who is responsible for covering Jones. It was a 3 yard crossing route with our LBs blitzing. Is that the Safety? Nickel corner? Hell, maybe Moore was playing the deep end and came up all the way recognizing the route and just didn't have time to close fast enough.

Moore has been decent so far. He is tackling better and seems to be around the ball more than last year. Christ, this is only what - his 5th or 6th started game? Classic OM calling for a draftees head before they have time to adjust to the speed of the NFL.

Me, I'll wait until the end of year 3 and place judgement then. Just look at Beadles - last year and the year prior people were calling for a replacement. Now he is playing really well and is a solid starter. Give it time people.

A number of us on this board watch the games and inspect plays a lot deeper than I think you are giving them credit for. The last play was nothing more than one play in a series of plays that Rahim Moore was a step too slow in closing on throughout the course of the game. As many have noted, it is because he may not fully trust his instincts yet, or he is late to recognize players coming into his zone. He was also late getting to his assignments on a few occassions Monday night too. Here's a hint for breaking down a defensive back's performance in very simple terms. If he is constantly making tackles on guys in front of him 1.5 seconds after the catch, it means he did not have a good break or was slow to recognize how the pattern was unfolding.

There really isn't a large contingent "calling for his head," just pointing out that one of our 2nd rounders is still not developed. In my opinion, he shoudl be further along at this point, but that is debatable.

If I had to rate his game on Monday it would be an "A"

for "awful"

Bmore Manning
09-19-2012, 01:41 PM
Lol, and you think if Julio Jones didn't make the 1st because Rahim Drove him back that the Atlanta fans would be calling for his head as well. I mean he has to know the situation and to get a 1st there.

I feel all these Moore threads have started because he didn't stop Julio short of the 1st on that last play. You know what, Atlanta's players are paid to play as well.

Without seeing the whole field, who even knows who is responsible for covering Jones. It was a 3 yard crossing route with our LBs blitzing. Is that the Safety? Nickel corner? Hell, maybe Moore was playing the deep end and came up all the way recognizing the route and just didn't have time to close fast enough.

That's exactly what he is saying as well as several of us. Moore had no business being in position to play a deeper throw when the play is at the marker, not down the field.

I don't care how you twist it, the play is for the qb is to complete the pass, ideally for a first, and keep the clock moving! This means short pass to move the chains! Otherwise they kill as much clock as they can to make it harder on Manning, what does that mean? High Percentage Completition.. SHORT PASS! If he completes the pass for 7 or 17, you lose either way! The QB is going for the high percentage play! Again.. Short pass! So Moore should have been driving forward from the snap. And when he got there, he didn't make the stick, which was the theme for him throughout the night.

teknic
10-09-2012, 10:00 AM
Anyone starting to change their minds about Rahim Moore yet?

I've seen noticeable improvement from him this year, he's starting to play well.

vancejohnson82
10-09-2012, 10:24 AM
Anyone starting to change their minds about Rahim Moore yet?

I've seen noticeable improvement from him this year, he's starting to play well.

definitely improving...i hope by the end of the season I can look back on this thread and be embarrassed that I started it

Mediator12
10-09-2012, 10:38 AM
Anyone starting to change their minds about Rahim Moore yet?

I've seen noticeable improvement from him this year, he's starting to play well.

Not after watching the Patriots game. Both safeties got schooled all day long and were out of position situationally for most of the game. He did make a few really nice plays, but he also made more boneheaded ones by my count.

broncocalijohn
10-09-2012, 10:44 AM
While he pisses people off, seems Mays is taking most of the hits on defense. Is he improving? Yes and noticed it before this weekend but will he be someone that we can get behind knowing he will be elite? I doubt it. We come from the Dennis Smith/Steve Atwater/Lynch/Hawkins type of safety in Denver. Those guys spoiled us but it could be very much accepted come draft or free agency. Those are the type of receivers that make wide outs aligator arm the ball. Makethem scared **** to be near a safety. Moore doesn't do that nor I think he will be that type of guy.

Bigdawg26
10-09-2012, 10:48 AM
Not after watching the Patriots game. Both safeties got schooled all day long and were out of position situationally for most of the game. He did make a few really nice plays, but he also made more boneheaded ones by my count.

You must not have been watching the game then. Moore was coming up in hitting in run support. It wasn't him getting schooled in the passing game he was playing deep. They would target Mays in coverage or Wes in in short middle of the field (which was Mays in zone or Harris in coverage). He has improved greatly this season, but he's not making any game changing plays yet. Give him some time and INT's will come. I honestly believe he is the GOAT of this defense. He's not Ed Reed, but give the guy a chance.

teknic
10-09-2012, 10:48 AM
While he pisses people off, seems Mays is taking most of the hits on defense. Is he improving? Yes and noticed it before this weekend but will he be someone that we can get behind knowing he will be elite? I doubt it. We come from the Dennis Smith/Steve Atwater/Lynch/Hawkins type of safety in Denver. Those guys spoiled us but it could be very much accepted come draft or free agency. Those are the type of receivers that make wide outs aligator arm the ball. Makethem scared **** to be near a safety. Moore doesn't do that nor I think he will be that type of guy.

Wouldn't be true today. The game has changed too much. Those guys would be flagged a few times a game for the hits they put on, and likely suspended.

Heyneck
10-09-2012, 11:07 AM
Moore is improving every game. He is no longer a liability. Who ever keeps hating is not watching the games. Yes the dude has dropped some INTs, but other than that he has been fallowing his assignments. Unlike last year, Moore's head is in the game!

baja
10-09-2012, 11:35 AM
Moore is improving every game. He is no longer a liability. Who ever keeps hating is not watching the games. Yes the dude has dropped some INTs, but other than that he has been fallowing his assignments. Unlike last year, Moore's head is in the game!


That would mean he is playing with Moore head.

Dedhed
10-09-2012, 11:58 AM
Moore is improving every game. He is no longer a liability. Who ever keeps hating is not watching the games. Yes the dude has dropped some INTs, but other than that he has been fallowing his assignments.

This- Moore has shown dramatic improvement from last year, and has been getting better every week this year. The people still bashing him are either holding on to last year, or just don't like the kid for some reason.

Moore is not a top 5 concern on this defense as far as personnel goes.

dictionary
10-09-2012, 12:38 PM
This- Moore has shown dramatic improvement from last year, and has been getting better every week this year. The people still bashing him are either holding on to last year, or just don't like the kid for some reason.

Moore is not a top 5 concern on this defense as far as personnel goes.

Nice Grudenism. I agree Moore is doing really well this year and is quietly putting together a very solid season: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/byposition?pos=S&conference=NFL&year=season_2012&timeframe=ToDate&sort=128&old_category=S

Nwp-Apap
10-09-2012, 12:49 PM
Moore is playing well overall. Seems about average in coverage, and above average in run support. For not being a large Safety, his run support and instincts are actually pretty fantastic. He leads the team in tackles..

And it's not like all his tackles are 20 yards down the field, he is often able tp run up tp the line of scrimmage in time to help keep the runner to a short gain. Dawkins was the last guy we had to play that way, safe to say he made an impact on Rahim's mentality, concerning Rahim was looked at as a deep safety coming out of college, one that would rarely come up and help against the run, much less effectively than he is doing so currently.

Heck, did you guys see that screen play he blew up Sunday? I thought that was fantastic. Best part is, he's barely 22, and I wager that he will continue to improve, and could very well be a pro bowl caliber player in 2013.

gyldenlove
10-09-2012, 01:26 PM
Not after watching the Patriots game. Both safeties got schooled all day long and were out of position situationally for most of the game. He did make a few really nice plays, but he also made more boneheaded ones by my count.

Moore is not the safety I am worried about, he still has a long way to go in coverage and he is not quick enough with his reads in the passing game - but he is improving and his run support is pretty good - that is enough for me for now.

I still think the bigger problems on defense are MLB, WLB and Mike Adams at SS between those 3 we simply have too big holes in coverage in the middle of the field and we lack safety support deep. For a supposed thumping runstopper Joe Mays does very little thumping and almost no run-stopping. Woodyard and Trevarthan both lack the athleticism to be cover linebackers and the size to consistently take on and shed blockers in the middle. Woodyard does a great job of flowing to the ball on plays that take a bit to get going, be it runs on the outside, pitches, screens or swing routes, but in the middle he gets washed out too often.

enjolras
10-09-2012, 01:37 PM
I still think the bigger problems on defense are MLB, WLB and Mike Adams at SS between those 3 we simply have too big holes in coverage in the middle of the field and we lack safety support deep. For a supposed thumping runstopper Joe Mays does very little thumping and almost no run-stopping. Woodyard and Trevarthan both lack the athleticism to be cover linebackers and the size to consistently take on and shed blockers in the middle. Woodyard does a great job of flowing to the ball on plays that take a bit to get going, be it runs on the outside, pitches, screens or swing routes, but in the middle he gets washed out too often.

I agree with both the MLB and SS as being huge concerns. Losing Carter for the year absolutely sucks, as I was hoping he'd grow into replacing Adams at SS this year. I think he has the chance to be pretty damn good at that position.

Lestat
10-09-2012, 09:09 PM
Moore is improving rapidly and is rounding into a very nice free safety.

the thing we really need is for Carter to get back too 100% and get a stud MLB, hell a good one would do wonders(Nate Irving, where ya at?!))

baja
10-09-2012, 09:13 PM
Is Carter one of those cases that would be eligible to come back off of IR?

Br0nc0Buster
10-09-2012, 10:02 PM
Moore has done a pretty good job
Nice improvement from last year when he was on the Joe Mays level of suck
Adams is the one who is a disappointment

Too bad Carter got hurt

Lestat
10-09-2012, 11:07 PM
Is Carter one of those cases that would be eligible to come back off of IR?

microfracture surgery is pretty much a year ending deal. even if they did designate him for that he likely wouldn't be physically able to come back unless he had the procedure done around the draft or sooner.

Br0nc0Buster
10-09-2012, 11:12 PM
microfracture surgery is pretty much a year ending deal. even if they did designate him for that he likely wouldn't be physically able to come back unless he had the procedure done around the draft or sooner.

Oh I forgot he had that
wow safety is a need now in the draft
Microfracture is not just a season ender, it is most likely a career ender

baja
10-09-2012, 11:17 PM
Oh I forgot he had that
wow safety is a need now in the draft
Microfracture is not just a season ender, it is most likely a career ender

Not any more. They have improved the procedure greatly.

Al Wilson
10-09-2012, 11:19 PM
The difference in Moore's game from last year to this year is huge. Honestl'y I didn't even think he knew how to tackle last year, and did call him a bust. But he has proved me wrong.

Br0nc0Buster
10-09-2012, 11:29 PM
Not any more. They have improved the procedure greatly.

Do you have any examples?

I am actually a big Quinton Carter fan, I am not being pessimistic for the sake of being pessimistic

I just have not seen many athletes come back from that

baja
10-09-2012, 11:32 PM
Do you have any examples?

I am actually a big Quinton Carter fan, I am not being pessimistic for the sake of being pessimistic

I just have not seen many athletes come back from that

Microfracture surgery is an articular cartilage repair surgical technique that works by creating tiny fractures in the underlying bone. This causes new cartilage to develop from a so-called super-clot. Microfracture surgery has gained popularity in sports in recent years; numerous professional athletes including members of the NBA (most notably Anfernee Hardaway, Jason Kidd, Greg Oden, Allan Houston, Kenyon Martin, Tracy McGrady, Chris Webber, and Amar'e Stoudemire), MLB (Jeff Clement), NFL and NHL have undergone the procedure.
The surgery is quick (typically lasting between 30-90 minutes), minimally invasive, and can have a significantly shorter recovery time than an arthroplasty (knee replacement).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfracture_surgery

~Crash~
10-09-2012, 11:42 PM
TD was one of the many bust with this...Microfracture surgery ****!!

Br0nc0Buster
10-09-2012, 11:47 PM
Microfracture surgery is an articular cartilage repair surgical technique that works by creating tiny fractures in the underlying bone. This causes new cartilage to develop from a so-called super-clot. Microfracture surgery has gained popularity in sports in recent years; numerous professional athletes including members of the NBA (most notably Anfernee Hardaway, Jason Kidd, Greg Oden, Allan Houston, Kenyon Martin, Tracy McGrady, Chris Webber, and Amar'e Stoudemire), MLB (Jeff Clement), NFL and NHL have undergone the procedure.
The surgery is quick (typically lasting between 30-90 minutes), minimally invasive, and can have a significantly shorter recovery time than an arthroplasty (knee replacement).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfracture_surgery

we will see I guess
lol I like how the 2 of the 3 first names on that list are Penny Hardaway and Greg Oden

I would think Oden would be the poster child as to how micro fracture surgery can signal the death of your career

baja
10-09-2012, 11:54 PM
we will see I guess
lol I like how the 2 of the 3 first names on that list are Penny Hardaway and Greg Oden

I would think Oden would be the poster child as to how micro fracture surgery can signal the death of your career

Ya if you read the rest of the article there are failures.

BowlenBall
10-10-2012, 12:57 AM
This- Moore has shown dramatic improvement from last year, and has been getting better every week this year. The people still bashing him are either holding on to last year, or just don't like the kid for some reason.

Moore is not a top 5 concern on this defense as far as personnel goes.

Interesting concept... here's my list of defensive starters, in order of concern:

1) Von Miller -- no concern whatsoever
2) Elvis Dumervil -- a small concern vs. run game
3) Champ Bailey -- getting up there in years, has possibly lost a half-step
4) Justin Bannan -- gets the job done, is assignment-sound
5) Kevin Vickerson -- same as Bannan
7) Tracy Porter -- a good second corner, has sealed a game for us, but has also cost us a few times
8) Derek Wolfe -- is adequate at the moment, but will only get better
9) Wesley Woodyard -- undersized for the run game, not good in coverage. However, is very active and has that 'it' factor
10) Rahim Moore -- has played solidly the last two games, but very few impact plays in his career to date
11) Mike Adams -- a journeyman at best, has made a few costly mistakes this year

So... yeah, I would say he IS a top-5 concern, personnel-wise, on this defense....

cutthemdown
10-10-2012, 01:16 AM
One game soon Moore is going to grab a pick. Some players just take a bit longer to get comfortable. Also Dback increbily hard because there is so much real estate back there and the players so much better. In college with most qbs you dont worry about the type of throws Brady can make. So it can take some time but I think Moore looking better. Hes starting to make a few nice tackes a game. Hes not where he needs to be for a high draft pick or bona fide NFL starting calibar but by end of the yr I think he might be.

maven
10-10-2012, 02:08 AM
Not any more. They have improved the procedure greatly.

Not anymore? Did you even read the wiki article you posted or know anything about the surgery in regards to NFL players?

Carter is looking at a long recovery and most likely will never be the same. Must hit the draft/FA this offseason.

Broncoman13
10-10-2012, 05:31 AM
I had to read this a few times to figure out how you got 11 and missed the biggest weakness on the entire team. No #6! No Joe Mays! Close to failing!


Interesting concept... here's my list of defensive starters, in order of concern:

1) Von Miller -- no concern whatsoever
2) Elvis Dumervil -- a small concern vs. run game
3) Champ Bailey -- getting up there in years, has possibly lost a half-step
4) Justin Bannan -- gets the job done, is assignment-sound
5) Kevin Vickerson -- same as Bannan
7) Tracy Porter -- a good second corner, has sealed a game for us, but has also cost us a few times
8) Derek Wolfe -- is adequate at the moment, but will only get better
9) Wesley Woodyard -- undersized for the run game, not good in coverage. However, is very active and has that 'it' factor
10) Rahim Moore -- has played solidly the last two games, but very few impact plays in his career to date
11) Mike Adams -- a journeyman at best, has made a few costly mistakes this year

So... yeah, I would say he IS a top-5 concern, personnel-wise, on this defense....

Broncoman13
10-10-2012, 05:34 AM
One game soon Moore is going to grab a pick. Some players just take a bit longer to get comfortable. Also Dback increbily hard because there is so much real estate back there and the players so much better. In college with most qbs you dont worry about the type of throws Brady can make. So it can take some time but I think Moore looking better. Hes starting to make a few nice tackes a game. Hes not where he needs to be for a high draft pick or bona fide NFL starting calibar but by end of the yr I think he might be.

Agree, he just needs some strong Oskie Karma! I have a feeling once he gets his first this year, three or four will soon follow. Just has to get that confidence boosting INT... Then the gates will open!

Lestat
10-10-2012, 02:36 PM
Not anymore? Did you even read the wiki article you posted or know anything about the surgery in regards to NFL players?

Carter is looking at a long recovery and most likely will never be the same. Must hit the draft/FA this offseason.

it isn't anymore. the issue with the failures is that most were either on their last leg as a player or waited til the last option was microfracture.
the younger the person the higher the success rate. under 40 is better but younger than 30 is ideal due to the way the body reacts to the surgery.

Mediator12
10-10-2012, 02:42 PM
OK. Did ANYONE watch the Patriots game? Did Anyone watch Moore be totally indecisive almost every play about where to be? The ONLY good play he had was a short screen to welker where he had primary man coverage and got his TFL.

I had Moore making 15 minuses in run support, failing to secure his gap on over half of them until the RB passed the first down marker. I had him having 5 missed coverages where he simply failed to be where he needed to be. Look no further than Moore on Woodheads first down run on third and 17. Dude panicked and STOPPED once he had an opportunity to close on the ball.

Seriously, he played a lot more assignment sound in the passing game, but he was a scrub versus the run as a Safety against NE.

TheReverend
10-10-2012, 02:45 PM
OK. Did ANYONE watch the Patriots game? Did Anyone watch Moore be totally indecisive almost every play about where to be? The ONLY good play he had was a short screen to welker where he had primary man coverage and got his TFL.

I had Moore making 15 minuses in run support, failing to secure his gap on over half of them until the RB passed the first down marker. I had him having 5 missed coverages where he simply failed to be where he needed to be. Look no further than Moore on Woodheads first down run on third and 17. Dude panicked and STOPPED once he had an opportunity to close on the ball.

Seriously, he played a lot more assignment sound in the passing game, but he was a scrub versus the run as a Safety against NE.

I don't blame him. They're playing Adams closer to the LOS. Time for that scrub to man up and make a ****ing play

broncosteven
10-10-2012, 02:45 PM
OK. Did ANYONE watch the Patriots game? Did Anyone watch Moore be totally indecisive almost every play about where to be? The ONLY good play he had was a short screen to welker where he had primary man coverage and got his TFL.

I had Moore making 15 minuses in run support, failing to secure his gap on over half of them until the RB passed the first down marker. I had him having 5 missed coverages where he simply failed to be where he needed to be. Look no further than Moore on Woodheads first down run on third and 17. Dude panicked and STOPPED once he had an opportunity to close on the ball.

Seriously, he played a lot more assignment sound in the passing game, but he was a scrub versus the run as a Safety against NE.

Is the above why they bought in Blake Gideon to the PS?

How did you grade Mays out?

Mediator12
10-10-2012, 02:50 PM
I don't blame him. They're playing Adams closer to the LOS. Time for that scrub to man up and make a ****ing play

I would have cut Adams on the way home after watching his performance on SUN. He was twice as bad as Moore. However, neither safety would close on the ball in run support or in the middle of the field versus Welker or Gronk. It was worse than grading my high school team watching that game again....

Moore looked lost all game long, just like last year. He had the deer in the headlights look going on and he drifted off his drops horribly again. When he starts going bad, he just implodes. Dude needs to get thicker skin, trust the gameplan, and do his JOB!

Mediator12
10-10-2012, 02:55 PM
Is the above why they bought in Blake Gideon to the PS?

How did you grade Mays out?

Non idea about gideon.

Mays and Adams were so poor in that game, I would have not them them on the team plane going home. They robbed the broncos witht hat performance. They got caught off guard with the Hurry up offense, failed to get the team set up correctly, blew assignments, failed to play proper techniques situationally, and were lost all game long.

The middle of this defense was atrocious and NE exploited it all game long!

TheReverend
10-10-2012, 03:16 PM
I would have cut Adams on the way home after watching his performance on SUN. He was twice as bad as Moore. However, neither safety would close on the ball in run support or in the middle of the field versus Welker or Gronk. It was worse than grading my high school team watching that game again....

Moore looked lost all game long, just like last year. He had the deer in the headlights look going on and he drifted off his drops horribly again. When he starts going bad, he just implodes. Dude needs to get thicker skin, trust the gameplan, and do his JOB!

I would have cut Adams before he ever signed Ha!

Btw, have you noticed Claiborne is every bit as overrated as I warned? Guy is getting Mike Jenkins'd all day now that he doesnt have P2 or Honey Badger to hold his jock for him.

(btw, I hope Mathieu declares anyway and that we use an early pick on him :) )

vancejohnson82
10-10-2012, 03:30 PM
watched the replay again...the Broncos Quick Mix

Moore is awful...i retract my statement that he is improving...id rather have him miss big than play scared

Mediator12
10-10-2012, 05:33 PM
I would have cut Adams before he ever signed Ha!

Btw, have you noticed Claiborne is every bit as overrated as I warned? Guy is getting Mike Jenkins'd all day now that he doesnt have P2 or Honey Badger to hold his jock for him.

(btw, I hope Mathieu declares anyway and that we use an early pick on him :) )

Have not seen Dallas at all this year. No time. As for Claiborne, P2 struggled mightily his first four or 5 games last year as well. Got picked on like all rookies do.

Still not a fan of Ryan's system in Dallas. Dude has a ton of defensive talent, and they are awful compared to Wade's defenses there. DAL should be a top 5 defense with those players, even if you or I were running it ;D

TheReverend
10-10-2012, 06:07 PM
Have not seen Dallas at all this year. No time. As for Claiborne, P2 struggled mightily his first four or 5 games last year as well. Got picked on like all rookies do.

Still not a fan of Ryan's system in Dallas. Dude has a ton of defensive talent, and they are awful compared to Wade's defenses there. DAL should be a top 5 defense with those players, even if you or I were running it ;D

Having a couple PSU linebackers will do that :)

gyldenlove
10-10-2012, 07:16 PM
I would have cut Adams before he ever signed Ha!

Btw, have you noticed Claiborne is every bit as overrated as I warned? Guy is getting Mike Jenkins'd all day now that he doesnt have P2 or Honey Badger to hold his jock for him.

(btw, I hope Mathieu declares anyway and that we use an early pick on him :) )

On the flipside Janoris Jenkins is every bit the stud we knew he would be - if he has cleaned up his act he is a major steal for the Rams.

TheReverend
10-10-2012, 07:27 PM
On the flipside Janoris Jenkins is every bit the stud we knew he would be - if he has cleaned up his act he is a major steal for the Rams.

Best corner in the draft by a VERY large margin and a better secondary add than Barron even.

Drunken.Broncoholic
10-10-2012, 07:46 PM
On the flipside Janoris Jenkins is every bit the stud we knew he would be - if he has cleaned up his act he is a major steal for the Rams.

Man I wanted Jenkins. He was top 15 talent with a cement head that scared away people. But his talent was never questioned and he can ball

Captain 'Dre
10-10-2012, 08:17 PM
On the flipside Janoris Jenkins is every bit the stud we knew he would be - if he has cleaned up his act he is a major steal for the Rams.

By "cleaned up his act", you mean... figured out how to circumvent drug tests? Ha!

R-Mac
10-10-2012, 10:43 PM
Rahim Moore has become a good tackler. 37 tackles in 5 games. 28 solo.

He's on pace to end the season with 118 tackles, which is a Pro Bowl number for a FS/SS.

DENVERDUI55
10-11-2012, 02:25 PM
Elway needs to call up Nick Collins and see if he is hungry and ready to play.

razorwire77
10-11-2012, 02:28 PM
Man I wanted Jenkins. He was top 15 talent with a cement head that scared away people. But his talent was never questioned and he can ball

Flat out ball. Knew he was going to be a stud. If he stays relatively straight, he might be pro-bowl good. It's rare to get his combination of body control, instincts, and speed. Even if he is sort of a dullard.

baja
10-11-2012, 02:32 PM
Rahim Moore has become a good tackler. 37 tackles in 5 games. 28 solo.

He's on pace to end the season with 118 tackles, which is a Pro Bowl number for a FS/SS.

The bad news is half of those tackles should have been Mays'

Mediator12
10-11-2012, 07:01 PM
Rahim Moore has become a good tackler. 37 tackles in 5 games. 28 solo.

He's on pace to end the season with 118 tackles, which is a Pro Bowl number for a FS/SS.

The problem is that over half those tackles came after a first down was made and he still is missing plays that need to be made by a competent safety in the NFL.

Tackles are the WORST statistical argument for defensive performance, because of a lack of situational representation. Making a tackle 3 yards past the first down marker when you should make it 3 yards before it is not executing your responsibility. It is still a minus play for your grade. Now, if he missed that tackle it would be a Major Minus.

Also, those numbers are inflated because of the poor play of the defense on third downs and playing so many snaps The middle of the defense has been especially porous. That gives him more opportunities to make tackles with little impact on the game or play. Having a safety with a high tackle number is NOT a good thing. Having a safety with high TFL's, FF's, INT's, and sacks would be much better.

gyldenlove
10-11-2012, 07:12 PM
By "cleaned up his act", you mean... figured out how to circumvent drug tests? Ha!

Or just schedule his blunts around the drug test schedule.

R-Mac
10-11-2012, 07:34 PM
The problem is that over half those tackles came after a first down was made and he still is missing plays that need to be made by a competent safety in the NFL.

Tackles are the WORST statistical argument for defensive performance, because of a lack of situational representation. Making a tackle 3 yards past the first down marker when you should make it 3 yards before it is not executing your responsibility. It is still a minus play for your grade. Now, if he missed that tackle it would be a Major Minus.

Also, those numbers are inflated because of the poor play of the defense on third downs and playing so many snaps The middle of the defense has been especially porous. That gives him more opportunities to make tackles with little impact on the game or play. Having a safety with a high tackle number is NOT a good thing. Having a safety with high TFL's, FF's, INT's, and sacks would be much better.

Every time he makes a tackle, it means the offense did not get to the endzone. And Moore already prevented some TDs with his tackles. The defense needs to step up, but so far Moore is showing more confidence and tackling better, and the bigger plays will come with more experience.

Lestat
10-11-2012, 08:05 PM
The bad news is half of those tackles should have been Mays'

half? that's being generous.

razorwire77
10-11-2012, 09:36 PM
Every time he makes a tackle, it means the offense did not get to the endzone. And Moore already prevented some TDs with his tackles. The defense needs to step up, but so far Moore is showing more confidence and tackling better, and the bigger plays will come with more experience.

At this point, I'm much more concerned about the gaping void of talent in the middle of the front seven, than I am about Raheem Moore.

broncocalijohn
10-11-2012, 09:41 PM
Man I wanted Jenkins. He was top 15 talent with a cement head that scared away people. But his talent was never questioned and he can ball

i think that was one of the 50 guys jjprice wanted in the top 15.

DENVERDUI55
10-11-2012, 09:54 PM
i think that was one of the 50 guys jjprice wanted in the top 15.

Only after Crick.

Premier-Ace55
10-12-2012, 11:56 AM
The problem is that over half those tackles came after a first down was made and he still is missing plays that need to be made by a competent safety in the NFL.

Tackles are the WORST statistical argument for defensive performance, because of a lack of situational representation. Making a tackle 3 yards past the first down marker when you should make it 3 yards before it is not executing your responsibility. It is still a minus play for your grade. Now, if he missed that tackle it would be a Major Minus.

Also, those numbers are inflated because of the poor play of the defense on third downs and playing so many snaps The middle of the defense has been especially porous. That gives him more opportunities to make tackles with little impact on the game or play. Having a safety with a high tackle number is NOT a good thing. Having a safety with high TFL's, FF's, INT's, and sacks would be much better.

This was a great point. 2 quick questions for you because I didn't get a great view of Moore when watching the game.
1. What had been your analysis of Dj Williams past couple of years in reference to that tackling comment?
2. Do you think that Rahim Moore can and will improve? or should we go shopping again next offseason.

dictionary
10-12-2012, 12:09 PM
This was a great point. 2 quick questions for you because I didn't get a great view of Moore when watching the game.
1. What had been your analysis of Dj Williams past couple of years in reference to that tackling comment?
2. Do you think that Rahim Moore can and will improve? or should we go shopping again next offseason.

I can answer number 2. Rahim is improving and growing into a solid safety. I doubt that Elway and co. will go after more in the draft because they already have 2 young safeties in Moore and Q. Carter. Carter would be starting alongside Moore if werent on IR. Denver has greater areas of need in the draft like MLB, so if they did go after another safety in FA or the draft, it would be for depth purposes only.

Bacchus
10-12-2012, 01:46 PM
I can answer number 2. Rahim is improving and growing into a solid safety. I doubt that Elway and co. will go after more in the draft because they already have 2 young safeties in Moore and Q. Carter. Carter would be starting alongside Moore if werent on IR. Denver has greater areas of need in the draft like MLB, so if they did go after another safety in FA or the draft, it would be for depth purposes only.

Denver has good young talent at Safety, CB, WR and the Oline. Denver is solid at DL and TE with people that are in their prime of their careers. Concentrate the draft on LB, NT, RB.

Mostly linebacker:giggle:

EDIT: Porter will be a FA so get a CB in the draft as well.

BroncoBeavis
10-12-2012, 02:01 PM
The problem is that over half those tackles came after a first down was made and he still is missing plays that need to be made by a competent safety in the NFL.

Tackles are the WORST statistical argument for defensive performance, because of a lack of situational representation. Making a tackle 3 yards past the first down marker when you should make it 3 yards before it is not executing your responsibility. It is still a minus play for your grade. Now, if he missed that tackle it would be a Major Minus.

I think judging a safety on how many first downs he gave up before tackle indicates a misunderstanding of what a safety is there for.

Mediator12
10-12-2012, 03:35 PM
I think judging a safety on how many first downs he gave up before tackle indicates a misunderstanding of what a safety is there for.

Not at this level. It might be a little harsh at lower levels, but not at the real quality programs.

Ask anyone who has played or coached a secondary and see what they say about Safeties making plays. Every safety has a run assignment based on the coverage called. Not one of them is designed to allow a first down. That is situational awareness, play recognition, and execution. All three of which Moore has been slow to do so far.

As for the passing game, it depends on their responsibility to the play. Sometimes they are deep center fielders who are supposed to take out the long balls. No real way to stop a catch in front of them for a first down and they are truly a deep last resort tackler.

However, all too often, both Adams and Moore could have made plays in the short passing game and intermediate passing game to prevent first downs. They are the primary weakness right now with the third down defense being so easy to convert. NE picked DEN apart and they really went after both safeties all game long, because they are slow to react, decipher, and execute.

Those are the plays I am talking about. Not the true last man back designation. Defenses are much more advanced and complicated than that.

BroncoBeavis
10-12-2012, 04:16 PM
Not at this level. It might be a little harsh at lower levels, but not at the real quality programs.

Ask anyone who has played or coached a secondary and see what they say about Safeties making plays. Every safety has a run assignment based on the coverage called. Not one of them is designed to allow a first down. That is situational awareness, play recognition, and execution. All three of which Moore has been slow to do so far.

As for the passing game, it depends on their responsibility to the play. Sometimes they are deep center fielders who are supposed to take out the long balls. No real way to stop a catch in front of them for a first down and they are truly a deep last resort tackler.

However, all too often, both Adams and Moore could have made plays in the short passing game and intermediate passing game to prevent first downs. They are the primary weakness right now with the third down defense being so easy to convert. NE picked DEN apart and they really went after both safeties all game long, because they are slow to react, decipher, and execute.

Those are the plays I am talking about. Not the true last man back designation. Defenses are much more advanced and complicated than that.

I'm not saying a safety is never at fault for giving up a first down. But there are many other cases where a safety making a tackle at all is due to a failure up front. And in those cases, it doesn't make any sense to judge him on whether a first down was gained or not. You'd have to know specifically what his assignment was before you could make that call.

First down stops would be a much better yardstick for the front 7 than for anyone in the secondary. And I'm not willing to pass much blame off on the secondary (for run support) when the play of the front 7 seems so suspect.

Mediator12
10-12-2012, 05:26 PM
I'm not saying a safety is never at fault for giving up a first down. But there are many other cases where a safety making a tackle at all is due to a failure up front. And in those cases, it doesn't make any sense to judge him on whether a first down was gained or not. You'd have to know specifically what his assignment was before you could make that call.

First down stops would be a much better yardstick for the front 7 than for anyone in the secondary. And I'm not willing to pass much blame off on the secondary (for run support) when the play of the front 7 seems so suspect.

The first part of this is true. A lot of the time, the safety is the clean up player in run support unless he has a gap assignment. So, him making a tackle at all can be because the other front 7 players got beat or simply lost their gap responsibility. In those cases, their job is to make the tackle.

However, how quickly does the safety diagnose and close on the ball once he gets a chance? That is where the second part is a little too lenient. A good safety makes the play right behind where the player who messed up would have made it. That is the definition of cleaning up a play. A lot goes into that process however, and that is why both DEN safeties are lacking.

The third part of knowing the assignment helps in the passing game for sure when grading, but in the run game if you can see it you can grade it. False steps, slow to react, poor angles, poor situational awareness, and a lack of closing speed to make the play haunts DEN's safety play. That is the difference in making a play short of the first down marker or letting the offense get 3 more plays.

As for the front Seven, they got pushed around at NE, but they had not been pushed around before that. NE just had their number and they played with them all game long until the fourth quarter. In the fourth, they played lights out. The same thing could not be said for the safety play. They were just as hesitant and lost in the fourth as the rest of the defense was before that.

go_broncos
10-12-2012, 05:27 PM
Rahim moore is terrible

If Rahim Moore is terrible..then what do you think of Mr.Mays?

Premier-Ace55
10-12-2012, 08:13 PM
Mediator, so those the questions were somewhat answered at least question 2. What is your take on both questions I asked?


This was a great point. 2 quick questions for you because I didn't get a great view of Moore when watching the game.
1. What had been your analysis of Dj Williams past couple of years in reference to that tackling comment?
2. Do you think that Rahim Moore can and will improve? or should we go shopping again next offseason.