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FantomForce
09-04-2012, 09:35 AM
I'm just curios about how the Omane feels about the replacement refs. As someone who played one year of junior college I was so overwhelmed by the speed of the game from the high school level. That was just JC ball, I can't imagine what D1 speed would be like. Then you have the speed of the NFL, it is unreal. These guys have been picked up from who knows where, not a lot of experience and have seemed to have quite a few hiccups already. Will they change the outcome of the games? Hopefully this can be resolved soon

FantomForce
09-04-2012, 09:37 AM
I'm just curios about how the Omane feels about the replacement refs. As someone who played one year of junior college I was so overwhelmed by the speed of the game from the high school level. That was just JC ball, I can't imagine what D1 speed would be like. Then you have the speed of the NFL, it is unreal. These guys have been picked up from who knows where, not a lot of experience and have seemed to have quite a few hiccups already. Will they change the outcome of the games? Hopefully this can be resolved soon

Crushaholic
09-04-2012, 09:44 AM
I don't see the NFL backing down, from the referee union. The league is in a position of strength. The games are being played, and fans are happy. It would take a slew of screwups, to change that dynamic...

SonOfLe-loLang
09-04-2012, 09:58 AM
I don't see the NFL backing down, from the referee union. The league is in a position of strength. The games are being played, and fans are happy. It would take a slew of screwups, to change that dynamic...

i just think its the wrong battle to pick. Its not like they are asking for million dollar salaries. And these refs have been ****. Why put your product at risk

Kaylore
09-04-2012, 10:04 AM
They're terrible. And the payoff isn't worth the fallout the NFL is taking. You're talking about a very small group of NFL employees who have a dangerous and important role. I am not sure why they are coming so hard after these guys, but it makes the NFL look cheap to the point being irresponsible.

lolcopter
09-04-2012, 10:07 AM
It's like Troy Aikmen said while announcing a preseason game a couple weeks ago, NFL fans get to watch the world's best football players every week, they deserve to have the best officiating crews also

These replacement guys are garbage

Irish Stout
09-04-2012, 10:07 AM
My biggest issue is that these refs are refs who don't have experience at a higher level of the game. Some of these guys are coming from High School or lower levels. Some from D2.

I don't know why the NFL couldn't get refs from some D1, some Pro (indoor, Canada), and then some D2. These guys just don't seem to be able to keep up with the pace of play. They can't seem to determine whether its holding or not or even when its important to call holding. There's going to be a lot more fighting this year amongst teams as players get away with more "illegal" use of hands and bodies.

I would like to see a change in the review challenges to allow a challenge on anything with the coach getting two challenges and not losing those challenges until the first one is denied. I think PI needs to be challengeable.

All that being said, I'm fine with the league not dealing with the refs. They may deserve better pay, but these guys basically work one game a week for 16 weeks and make somewhere between $80k and $150k doing it. Its the best part time job I can think of being involved in a great sport. Also, the usual refs also screw up.

lolcopter
09-04-2012, 10:12 AM
All that being said, I'm fine with the league not dealing with the refs. They may deserve better pay, but these guys basically work one game a week for 16 weeks and make somewhere between $80k and $150k doing it. Its the best part time job I can think of being involved in a great sport. Also, the usual refs also screw up.


C'mon now, that's like saying the players only work 16 weeks out of the year.

The refs had to maintain their physical fitness as well as stay up to date on new rules and I'm sure they have conferences to attend along with other crap. It certainly isnt an easy job, and those numbers are minuscule compared to other $$$ that get thrown around in this league (even with the new rookie pay scale)

Dedhed
09-04-2012, 10:16 AM
Meh, the level of officiating will definitely suffer, you just hope the mistakes even out in the end.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-04-2012, 10:16 AM
All that being said, I'm fine with the league not dealing with the refs. They may deserve better pay, but these guys basically work one game a week for 16 weeks and make somewhere between $80k and $150k doing it. Its the best part time job I can think of being involved in a great sport. Also, the usual refs also screw up.

Not on the scale we've seen this preseason. Not even close.

When the highest compliment that the Ginger Hammer could dole out was that these replacements "will do a credible job," you know you're in trouble. When they go out and **** all over themselves, like they did in the SF/Denver game and the NE/Giants game, to the point where "credible" doesn't even enter the equation, you've got massive problems and the issue needs to be fixed.

If they are given a whole season, I see no way that the lack of seasoned NFL officials doesn't change the outcome of several contests throughout the year.

Drunken.Broncoholic
09-04-2012, 10:17 AM
C'mon now, that's like saying the players only work 16 weeks out of the year.

The refs had to maintain their physical fitness as well as stay up to date on new rules and I'm sure they have conferences to attend along with other crap. It certainly isnt an easy job, and those numbers are minuscule compared to other $$$ that get thrown around in this league (even with the new rookie pay scale)

They do have to attend meetings after each game. The ref team goes over game film and all their blatant mistakes. Evaluate their stinking up the field.

The scrub refs will have plenty to watch, with multiple opportunities to mumble the word "oops"

Houshyamama
09-04-2012, 10:17 AM
I'm just curios about how the Omane feels about the replacement refs. As someone who played one year of junior college I was so overwhelmed by the speed of the game from the high school level. That was just JC ball, I can't imagine what D1 speed would be like. Then you have the speed of the NFL, it is unreal. These guys have been picked up from who knows where, not a lot of experience and have seemed to have quite a few hiccups already. Will they change the outcome of the games? Hopefully this can be resolved soon

DenverBroncosJM
09-04-2012, 10:18 AM
If my math is not completely wrong P. Manning will make more this year than the cost of having the real refs for the entire season.

Thats with the new deal they are asking for...that seems wrong to me and they should be paid

Drunken.Broncoholic
09-04-2012, 10:19 AM
Not on the scale we've seen this preseason. Not even close.

When the highest compliment that the Ginger Hammer could dole out was that these replacements "will do a credible job," you know you're in trouble. When they go out and **** all over themselves, like they did in the SF/Denver game and the NE/Giants game, to the point where "credible" doesn't even enter the equation, you've got massive problems and the issue needs to be fixed.

If they are given a whole season, I see no way that the lack of seasoned NFL officials doesn't change the outcome of several contests throughout the year.



Yep. I think the regular refs know you can't bring the ball out to the 20 if the punt was downed at the 4 yard line.

Beantown Bronco
09-04-2012, 10:20 AM
If the difference really does amount to the less than $100K per owner per year figure that I've seen thrown around, it's ridiculous that it's gotten this far. That's a rounding error for those guys.

Drunken.Broncoholic
09-04-2012, 10:20 AM
If my math is not completely wrong P. Manning will make more this year than the cost of having the real refs for the entire season.

Thats with the new deal they are asking for...that seems wrong to me and they should be paid

I don't know about all the arguments of each side, but I think it has to do with more than a seasons pay. More like a life's worth of pension

SonOfLe-loLang
09-04-2012, 10:32 AM
My biggest issue is that these refs are refs who don't have experience at a higher level of the game. Some of these guys are coming from High School or lower levels. Some from D2.

I don't know why the NFL couldn't get refs from some D1, some Pro (indoor, Canada), and then some D2. These guys just don't seem to be able to keep up with the pace of play. They can't seem to determine whether its holding or not or even when its important to call holding. There's going to be a lot more fighting this year amongst teams as players get away with more "illegal" use of hands and bodies.

I would like to see a change in the review challenges to allow a challenge on anything with the coach getting two challenges and not losing those challenges until the first one is denied. I think PI needs to be challengeable.

All that being said, I'm fine with the league not dealing with the refs. They may deserve better pay, but these guys basically work one game a week for 16 weeks and make somewhere between $80k and $150k doing it. Its the best part time job I can think of being involved in a great sport. Also, the usual refs also screw up.

If all the refs are making is 80k a year, they are woefully underpaid.

Irish Stout
09-04-2012, 10:33 AM
If the difference really does amount to the less than $100K per owner per year figure that I've seen thrown around, it's ridiculous that it's gotten this far. That's a rounding error for those guys.

I've seen that the issue is $70million over the next 5 years.

Irish Stout
09-04-2012, 10:36 AM
If all the refs are making is 80k a year, they are woefully underpaid.

Thats what they make, but really they only have to put in about 10 hours of work per week. I would love to pick up a part time job that paid that.

I do ultimately agree that these guys are underpaid and the replacements are absolutely horrid. I think the refs should get full benefits from the NFL, which is, I believe one of the issues.

ludo21
09-04-2012, 10:36 AM
meh, every team will deal with the same issues.

Im with the "refs will get better every day" crew

Beantown Bronco
09-04-2012, 10:38 AM
I've seen that the issue is $70million over the next 5 years.

works out to essentially $400K per year, per owner

Irish Stout
09-04-2012, 10:46 AM
Anyone catch this:

I'm just curios about how the Omane feels about the replacement refs. As someone who played one year of junior college I was so overwhelmed by the speed of the game from the high school level. That was just JC ball, I can't imagine what D1 speed would be like. Then you have the speed of the NFL, it is unreal. These guys have been picked up from who knows where, not a lot of experience and have seemed to have quite a few hiccups already. Will they change the outcome of the games? Hopefully this can be resolved soon

I'm just curios about how the Omane feels about the replacement refs. As someone who played one year of junior college I was so overwhelmed by the speed of the game from the high school level. That was just JC ball, I can't imagine what D1 speed would be like. Then you have the speed of the NFL, it is unreal. These guys have been picked up from who knows where, not a lot of experience and have seemed to have quite a few hiccups already. Will they change the outcome of the games? Hopefully this can be resolved soon

broncocalijohn
09-04-2012, 10:55 AM
So it seems you guys are of the same person. Mod, can we check out Fantom FOrce and Houshyama's IP?

3 threads all the same and yes Stout, I did notice and couldnt tell if he was mocking FantomForce but it is exactly the same post.

Classic! Did one get banned and created another account?

broncocalijohn
09-04-2012, 10:57 AM
So are you FantomForce? Same exact thread, different name.

broncocalijohn
09-04-2012, 10:59 AM
They do have to attend meetings after each game. The ref team goes over game film and all their blatant mistakes. Evaluate their stinking up the field.

The scrub refs will have plenty to watch, with multiple opportunities to mumble the word "oops"

Well, then that one day job is now a 3 day job as I suspect it takes 2 days to cover all the **** up calls in the conference room.

Tombstone RJ
09-04-2012, 11:04 AM
the thing is, the regular refs suck. It's amazing how bad they suck and yet they want "more" money for sucking?

I say hire replacments, there will be growing pains, sure, but don't reward suckiness with more money and another contract. If anything, I'd tell the regular refs that they need to purge the crappy ones out, period. Get them out. Then bring in some good replacement refs and then talk about extending the CURRENT contract.

this ain't rocket science.

lonestar
09-04-2012, 11:14 AM
C'mon now, that's like saying the players only work 16 weeks out of the year.

The refs had to maintain their physical fitness as well as stay up to date on new rules and I'm sure they have conferences to attend along with other crap. It certainly isnt an easy job, and those numbers are minuscule compared to other $$$ that get thrown around in this league (even with the new rookie pay scale)

They have weekly review by the NFL. have travel time and likeyousaid spend loads of time in the gymterack staying in shape..

I saw a special omn Houckli a few years ago and from what I took from it he spent more like 30 hours a week in season to be the guy he was.

Some of these clowns act like they drive to the game from down the road huddle up ref the game and are home before most fans are..

The 3 hours a week crap..

More like have near a full day of travel both directions depending on where the game is, go ov the film of last weeks game as a group, agoing ove the mistakes made.. look at film of the two teams that are playing to see what they are trying to get away with , go to the stadium to make sure it is safe by walking the field making sure the official alls are legit and have not been tampered with. Then go out and ref the game. Putting their lives/ bodies on the line on each play.

I suspect most of them require PT from the hits they take as well as time rehabbing. Those hits.

SonOfLe-loLang
09-04-2012, 11:21 AM
Thats what they make, but really they only have to put in about 10 hours of work per week. I would love to pick up a part time job that paid that.

I do ultimately agree that these guys are underpaid and the replacements are absolutely horrid. I think the refs should get full benefits from the NFL, which is, I believe one of the issues.

Its a skill they possess that is unique to them. If you want to discuss time to pay ratios, lots of rich people dont do much and get paid tons.

Irish Stout
09-04-2012, 11:21 AM
They have weekly review by the NFL. have travel time and likeyousaid spend loads of time in the gymterack staying in shape..

I saw a special omn Houckli a few years ago and from what I took from it he spent more like 30 hours a week in season to be the guy he was.

Some of these clowns act like they drive to the game from down the road huddle up ref the game and are home before most fans are..

The 3 hours a week crap..

More like have near a full day of travel both directions depending on where the game is, go ov the film of last weeks game as a group, agoing ove the mistakes made.. look at film of the two teams that are playing to see what they are trying to get away with , go to the stadium to make sure it is safe by walking the field making sure the official alls are legit and have not been tampered with. Then go out and ref the game. Putting their lives/ bodies on the line on each play.

I suspect most of them require PT from the hits they take as well as time rehabbing. Those hits.

I think its interesting that you're siding with a union and I'm siding with a corporation. Sometimes we cannot be defined by the positions we take in the WPR forum.

Again, for the record, I think refs need to have benefits and full coverage for any injuries sustained while "working."

Irish Stout
09-04-2012, 11:28 AM
Its a skill they possess that is unique to them. If you want to discuss time to pay ratios, lots of rich people dont do much and get paid tons.

I don't actually care what they get paid. My argument is only that as a part time job, its not absolutely horrible pay. I'm sure its a nice supplement to Hochuli's legal practice.

Personally I do think the refs should be full time and I think they should be required to go through OTAs, pass physical fitness tests (I know there are a few of the old refs who just look like they could die any minute), spend training camp in rule meetings, film study and at practices and scrimmages, honing in their skills on illegalities. Once that happens, then they should absolutely be paid more.

But for the requirement they have for 1/3 of the year, they get paid pretty well. If their skill was so much more valuable than what they were paid, they'd eventually get paid more.... and soon we'll know for sure whether or not it is. I personally believe any healthy Joe or Nancy off the street could be trained up on all the NFL rules and review enough film to become a decent NFL ref. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this one.

Play2win
09-04-2012, 12:28 PM
Take away some of the pay that is going to the players, make the refs fulltime employees of the league, and with their better pay comes more accountability for getting the call right.

lonestar
09-04-2012, 12:36 PM
Take away some of the pay that is going to the players, make the refs fulltime employees of the league, and with their better pay comes more accountability for getting the call right.

Not so sure that most of the existing guys would want to work full time they have other jobs . Many of them professionals that have obtained th ability to do both.

Play2win
09-04-2012, 12:46 PM
Not so sure that most of the existing guys would want to work full time they have other jobs . Many of them professionals that have obtained th ability to do both.

That is kind of beside the point. Train and get ones that do want to work fulltime, pay them right, but hold them accountable.

Everything else about the NFL is a Fulltime++ job. Live and breath it for 60+ hours a week– at least. Except the refs... C'mon Man!!!!

Irish Stout
09-04-2012, 01:18 PM
Not so sure that most of the existing guys would want to work full time they have other jobs . Many of them professionals that have obtained th ability to do both.

I actually think this is the big issue. The refs want to be full time and receive all the employee benefits of being a full time employee.

FantomForce
09-04-2012, 01:24 PM
sorry broncojohn, I was being mocked. (guy who has a pic of a dog that looks like a hairy penis)

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-04-2012, 01:26 PM
the thing is, the regular refs suck. It's amazing how bad they suck and yet they want "more" money for sucking?

I say hire replacments, there will be growing pains, sure, but don't reward suckiness with more money and another contract. If anything, I'd tell the regular refs that they need to purge the crappy ones out, period. Get them out. Then bring in some good replacement refs and then talk about extending the CURRENT contract.

this ain't rocket science.

You're right, it ain't rocket science.

These guys don't know what the rules are. It should be plainly obvious to anyone with a brain that these replacements are in WAY over their heads. Thing is, the experienced refs have been in the league for YEARS before running a crew. These crew-runners/head refs are new to the pro game, don't see the game at the right speed, and are completely unfamiliar with things like challenges and rules.

It's bad news if you enjoy watching the game to have these replacements on the field. Period. Especially over what amounts to .01% of team revenues per year.

maher_tyler
09-04-2012, 01:34 PM
I don't see the NFL backing down, from the referee union. The league is in a position of strength. The games are being played, and fans are happy. It would take a slew of screwups, to change that dynamic...

I'm pretty sure no one is happy right now. The pre-season was a preview of what this season is going to be like as long as these replacement refs are refing games!

Tombstone RJ
09-04-2012, 01:41 PM
You're right, it ain't rocket science.

These guys don't know what the rules are. It should be plainly obvious to anyone with a brain that these replacements are in WAY over their heads. Thing is, the experienced refs have been in the league for YEARS before running a crew. These crew-runners/head refs are new to the pro game, don't see the game at the right speed, and are completely unfamiliar with things like challenges and rules.

It's bad news if you enjoy watching the game to have these replacements on the field. Period. Especially over what amounts to .01% of team revenues per year.

Point is the regular refs also suck. You don't reward suckiness with more money, not in the real world anyway. So you play hard ball with them and train up some replacement refs.

It's not like being a ref requires some special skill. It's about training, training and more training and that only comes with experience. Unfortunately even if the regular refs come back they are gonna suck too because well, they haven't done jack-diddly-crap so far this year.

Again, the regular refs need to acknowledge they are not very good and that they make too many mistakes. These are guys who have been doing the stuff a long time. Instead, they want to demand more benefits but not get rid of the assclowns who stink (typical of unions).

Well, now the NFL is training up some new people. The longer they get to ref, the better they will become. If the regular refs want to sit out the entire season then by the end of this season these new refs will be at least as good as the regular refs and maybe even better because they don't feel entitled.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-04-2012, 03:49 PM
Point is the regular refs also suck. You don't reward suckiness with more money, not in the real world anyway. So you play hard ball with them and train up some replacement refs.

It's not like being a ref requires some special skill. It's about training, training and more training and that only comes with experience. Unfortunately even if the regular refs come back they are gonna suck too because well, they haven't done jack-diddly-crap so far this year.

Again, the regular refs need to acknowledge they are not very good and that they make too many mistakes. These are guys who have been doing the stuff a long time. Instead, they want to demand more benefits but not get rid of the assclowns who stink (typical of unions).

Well, now the NFL is training up some new people. The longer they get to ref, the better they will become. If the regular refs want to sit out the entire season then by the end of this season these new refs will be at least as good as the regular refs and maybe even better because they don't feel entitled.

In the last 10 years, can you name a ton of blatantly obvious calls missed by the real refs? Probably not. You can probably name a couple.

In the last 4 weeks of the preseason, I can name you 20 from the replacements.

No, you don't "pay for sucking," but compared to these idiots running around out there? Who don't know the names of the penalties, or how much yardage gets marked off? Who don't know what coaches are challenging when they throw the flag?

It's night and day. Considering how many plays happen in a football game, and considering how few problems there really are with the real refs, these replacements are a ****ing joke.

They're going to cost teams games. Period. And it's going to be several, and it's not going to be pretty.

But whatever. I teeny tiny bump (which is less than what was in their old CBA, by the way) to have well-officiated games 99% of the time is better than playing hardball over pennies.

You want to make this into a political anti-union stance, and that's not surprising. God forbid a union ask for a .01% increase in pay. Pfft. Christ, you're simple minded.

Tombstone RJ
09-04-2012, 04:00 PM
In the last 10 years, can you name a ton of blatantly obvious calls missed by the real refs? Probably not. You can probably name a couple.

In the last 4 weeks of the preseason, I can name you 20 from the replacements.

No, you don't "pay for sucking," but compared to these idiots running around out there? Who don't know the names of the penalties, or how much yardage gets marked off? Who don't know what coaches are challenging when they throw the flag?

It's night and day. Considering how many plays happen in a football game, and considering how few problems there really are with the real refs, these replacements are a ****ing joke.

They're going to cost teams games. Period. And it's going to be several, and it's not going to be pretty.

But whatever. I teeny tiny bump (which is less than what was in their old CBA, by the way) to have well-officiated games 99% of the time is better than playing hardball over pennies.

You want to make this into a political anti-union stance, and that's not surprising. God forbid a union ask for a .01% increase in pay. Pfft. Christ, you're simple minded.

YES, HOW ABOUT THE HOCCULI FUGUP WHEN CUTLER FUMBLED THE BALL AGAINST SAN DIEGO?

THAT'S JUST ONE OFF THE VERY TOP OF MY HEAD

why should I read the rest of your post, you're just arguing to argue. I've made my point, that is, these replacement refs will get better with time.

and try more like 50% of the time.

Jetland
09-04-2012, 04:10 PM
this throwing around random percentage thing seems fun
75% of the time a game is well officiated
25% of the time Unicorns wander onto the field

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-04-2012, 04:37 PM
YES, HOW ABOUT THE HOCCULI FUGUP WHEN CUTLER FUMBLED THE BALL AGAINST SAN DIEGO?

THAT'S JUST ONE OFF THE VERY TOP OF MY HEAD

why should I read the rest of your post, you're just arguing to argue. I've made my point, that is, these replacement refs will get better with time.

and try more like 50% of the time.

So there's one. I asked for "a ton."

You're really not smart.

http://deadspin.com/5940347/this-replacement-ref-is-used-to-working-six+man-football

Six Man football refs are now reffing NFL games. "DURRR NURRRRR THARE NOT THAT BADDD U GYZ"

Maybe we should get ALL six-man officiating crews to work ALL the games. Really teach those uppity 11 man refs a lesson about... something.

Tombstone's brain damage says it would be a good idea.

WolfpackGuy
09-04-2012, 04:40 PM
I just hope they actually call some holds on the PIT offensive tackles Sunday night.

They've missed a lot of those on Doom and Miller this preseason.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-04-2012, 04:42 PM
I just hope they actually call some holds on the PIT offensive tackles Sunday night.

They've missed a lot of those on Doom and Miller this preseason.

They missed one in the Seattle game that I could see from the last row of the lower bowl at Mile High against the Seahawks... that only led to a 20+ yard touchdown. No big deal though.

These refs are just great. Let's make sure we teach those uppity REAL refs a lesson.

Tombstone RJ
09-04-2012, 05:50 PM
So there's one. I asked for "a ton."

You're really not smart.

http://deadspin.com/5940347/this-replacement-ref-is-used-to-working-six+man-football

Six Man football refs are now reffing NFL games. "DURRR NURRRRR THARE NOT THAT BADDD U GYZ"

Maybe we should get ALL six-man officiating crews to work ALL the games. Really teach those uppity 11 man refs a lesson about... something.

Tombstone's brain damage says it would be a good idea.

herpy derp derp. Dude, everyone on this site can name a bad call. I'll name two more, again, right off the top of my head. The call when Brady supposedly didn't fumble the ball against Oakland when they went to their first SB. Huge bad call.

The game where the Broncos played at camarohead where that punt return guy who was having a great year, he returned another punt for a TD (can't remember his name) but there were literally like three illegal blocks that the refs DID NOT flag. Total BS.

Again, it's not hard to find examples.

maher_tyler
09-04-2012, 05:52 PM
YES, HOW ABOUT THE HOCCULI FUGUP WHEN CUTLER FUMBLED THE BALL AGAINST SAN DIEGO?

THAT'S JUST ONE OFF THE VERY TOP OF MY HEAD

why should I read the rest of your post, you're just arguing to argue. I've made my point, that is, these replacement refs will get better with time.

and try more like 50% of the time.

I understand your belief in that these replacements will get better. I disagree, at least not with in one year. I think we're underestimating how long it takes refs not only to learn ALL of the rules but to get up to speed with how fast the game is. If it takes a player 2-3-4 years to get on par with the speed of the game, how long will it take refs?? I think the NFL is making a big mistake by playing hard ball with the real refs. These refs WILL cost teams games with out a doubt. The real refs miss calls maybe a few times in a game. These replacements are beyond terrible...i honestly don't think they are going to get as good as you think they will, not after only one year anyway.

Tombstone RJ
09-04-2012, 05:56 PM
I understand your belief in that these replacements will get better. I disagree, at least not with in one year. I think we're underestimating how long it takes refs not only to learn ALL of the rules but to get up to speed with how fast the game is. If it takes a player 2-3-4 years to get on par with the speed of the game, how long will it take refs?? I think the NFL is making a big mistake by playing hard ball with the real refs. These refs WILL cost teams games with out a doubt. The real refs miss calls maybe a few times in a game. These replacements are beyond terrible...i honestly don't think they are going to get as good as you think they will.

There's this presumption that the current refs are like "super refs" or something. Why? Do they have better eyesight? Do they have bigger brains? Do they move around better? No. They simply have the most experience.

That's it. That's all they have. Otherwise, a school girl could do their friggen jobs.

maher_tyler
09-04-2012, 05:57 PM
herpy derp derp. Dude, everyone on this site can name a bad call. I'll name two more, again, right off the top of my head. The call when Brady supposedly didn't fumble the ball against Oakland when they went to their first SB. Huge bad call.

The game where the Broncos played at camarohead where that punt return guy who was having a great year, he returned another punt for a TD (can't remember his name) but there were literally like three illegal blocks that the refs DID NOT flag. Total BS.

Again, it's not hard to find examples.

I don't think its even close...these replacements are a billion times worse than the real refs. Its not even compareable imo. These bad calls or non calls happen once in a great while. Its happening multiple times per game in every single game with the replacements.

maher_tyler
09-04-2012, 06:01 PM
There's this presumption that the current refs are like "super refs" or something. Why? Do they have better eyesight? Do they have bigger brains? Do they move around better? No. They simply have the most experience.

That's it. That's all they have. Otherwise, a school girl could do their friggen jobs.

Thats it in a nutshell. Experience, which is huge, obviously. These replacements are pretty bad man.

Tombstone RJ
09-04-2012, 06:03 PM
I don't think its even close...these replacements are a billion times worse than the real refs. Its not even compareable imo. These bad calls or non calls happen once in a great while. Its happening multiple times per game in every single game with the replacements.

they need more experience, yes, but that comes with time. Obviously the NFL feels that the current refs are replaceable.

There's going to be some bad calls, some mistakes and there is going to be some drag time as the replacement officials try to figure things out. So yah, it's gonna suck.

The question is will they be as good as the current refs with more experience or are the current refs super-human refs with greater powers of perception than these fresh faced replacements?

ol#7
09-04-2012, 06:06 PM
The regular refs already swung a Superbowl (Seattle vs Pitt) and replay exists because of the number of times teams were screwed over. Half the time fans complain that they feel their teams are targeted/games are fixed, it is a perception that exists because the officials suck. The regular officials.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-04-2012, 07:10 PM
The ignorance is astounding. Then you see that it's ol number 7 and tombstone, and it's less so.

I'd love to see tombstone out there, actually. See how easy it really is.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-04-2012, 07:14 PM
http://deadspin.com/5939113/we-can-only-hope-nfl-referee-don-kings-incompetence-will-bring-about-labor-peace?tag=replacement-refs

Everything is awesome, you guys. SO good.

ol#7
09-05-2012, 06:40 AM
The ignorance is astounding. Then you see that it's ol number 7 and tombstone, and it's less so.

I'd love to see tombstone out there, actually. See how easy it really is.

They ALL suck. Just like your decision to back Kyle Orton.

What they dont deserve is a full retirement for their part time job. They are not that integral to the game or that good at what they do to get that type of compensation package.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-05-2012, 11:15 AM
1. A quarterback was punched in the head during the course of a sack—it happens, all good so far. The refs respond by calling a dead-ball unnecessary roughness penalty despite it being a live-ball play—uh oh, we're on shaky ground now. Then they walk off the penalty—and, for unknown reasons, they decide it should be eight yards. I realize that the penalty system is quite complex, with its multiples of five and all, but an eight-yard penalty? Really?

2. We walked out for a punt, and my long snapper didn't feel like going over to the other hash. What did he do? He told the ref, "No, you have the ball in the wrong place. Move it over here." And what did the ref do? HE MOVED THE BALL. No! Bad ref! Have some confidence in your abilities—you tell us what to do, not the other way around. (I absolutely murdered the subsequent punt by the way, so that was cool.) I haven't personally seen it, but I've heard of coaches berating the replacement refs in other games and getting penalty flags picked up. I'm sure that won't be a problem in a real game, though. I can't picture Belichick or Harbaugh losing his **** at a ref if he thought it would give his team a tactical advantage. Totally out of character.

3. They missed a call so badly that the replay official called down from the booth and made them review the play so they could assess a penalty. That's not really allowed in the rulebook, but I guess we're just winging it, at this point. I can't wait for the NFL to put drones over every stadium so they can call in penalties in real time and turn the replacements into glorified meat puppets. I can totally picture the commissioner sitting in front of a video screen, grainy crosshairs zeroed in on James Harrison, rubbing his hands with glee as he waits to hit the big red "PENALTY FINE" button. (If it also fired a Hellfire missile, I think that would really liven the game up.) Naturally, though, they'll need a conference first.

http://deadspin.com/5940689/an-nfls-player-view-of-the-replacement-refs-theyre-as-bad-as-you-think

Everything is great. /head back in sand

Irish Stout
09-05-2012, 11:50 AM
Everything is great. /head back in sand

Its not great. It is very bad. I think the problem is that they picked up refs from 6 on 6 leagues and high school. They didn't get the best of the rest, they got the crap that settled in the bottom of the toilet.

If the NFL had been able to snag scabs that were better than this, I think it would be much less of an issue. As it is, the NFL needs to have a system to check these refs at almost every turn.

Still... I'm with the league on the decision not to negotiate. I am not with the league on who and what they've replaced the refs with.

Broncos4tw
09-05-2012, 03:47 PM
NFL is a multi-billion dollar industry. That they can't get this hammered out for whatever the amount they were saying (12 million or so) is just ridiculous. Make those refs full time - pay them full time - give them full pensions and be done with it.

And Goodell is really proving to be quite the hypocrite. He is all about player safety.. unless it will cost them some money. Having these refs literally endangers players.

gyldenlove
09-05-2012, 03:54 PM
1. A quarterback was punched in the head during the course of a sack—it happens, all good so far. The refs respond by calling a dead-ball unnecessary roughness penalty despite it being a live-ball play—uh oh, we're on shaky ground now. Then they walk off the penalty—and, for unknown reasons, they decide it should be eight yards. I realize that the penalty system is quite complex, with its multiples of five and all, but an eight-yard penalty? Really?

2. We walked out for a punt, and my long snapper didn't feel like going over to the other hash. What did he do? He told the ref, "No, you have the ball in the wrong place. Move it over here." And what did the ref do? HE MOVED THE BALL. No! Bad ref! Have some confidence in your abilities—you tell us what to do, not the other way around. (I absolutely murdered the subsequent punt by the way, so that was cool.) I haven't personally seen it, but I've heard of coaches berating the replacement refs in other games and getting penalty flags picked up. I'm sure that won't be a problem in a real game, though. I can't picture Belichick or Harbaugh losing his **** at a ref if he thought it would give his team a tactical advantage. Totally out of character.

3. They missed a call so badly that the replay official called down from the booth and made them review the play so they could assess a penalty. That's not really allowed in the rulebook, but I guess we're just winging it, at this point. I can't wait for the NFL to put drones over every stadium so they can call in penalties in real time and turn the replacements into glorified meat puppets. I can totally picture the commissioner sitting in front of a video screen, grainy crosshairs zeroed in on James Harrison, rubbing his hands with glee as he waits to hit the big red "PENALTY FINE" button. (If it also fired a Hellfire missile, I think that would really liven the game up.) Naturally, though, they'll need a conference first.

http://deadspin.com/5940689/an-nfls-player-view-of-the-replacement-refs-theyre-as-bad-as-you-think

Everything is great. /head back in sand

I believe it was the Philadelphia coaches who complained about a defensive pass intereference call made by the line ref by their bench, and he picked up the flag and said he wouldn't make the call because of that.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-05-2012, 04:32 PM
Its not great. It is very bad. I think the problem is that they picked up refs from 6 on 6 leagues and high school. They didn't get the best of the rest, they got the crap that settled in the bottom of the toilet.

If the NFL had been able to snag scabs that were better than this, I think it would be much less of an issue. As it is, the NFL needs to have a system to check these refs at almost every turn.

Still... I'm with the league on the decision not to negotiate. I am not with the league on who and what they've replaced the refs with.

They didn't have the option of getting "the best of the rest," as FBS and FCS refs don't have the option of reffing games at other levels. It's in their contracts and CBAs. THAT is why you're getting division 2 and lower.

And regardless, it doesn't matter. You can't separate the two. The league is playing hardball, and the product will suffer immensely.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-05-2012, 04:38 PM
http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/650852852.jpg?key=960540&Expires=1346889089&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=idsxXAD1gxkU0Pi~NiYhl4zEoFMABU28vw6q98rj lz0niupzlDjxgs7Asr2cFoIW2ZMdnxbKydsocdoBiRwFP3u6iX N7V1YMCSd6Cejq-c2OjGoCHuw7bxcw~7kANIKyUZfzomegkLaxNN6O8zrrx4a~Yc3 NmB3q9guXg~CQtUE_

I'm sure he'll do a very credible job.

ozomulsion
09-06-2012, 03:58 AM
Games will be swung by bad officiating come Sunday. Overall they're pretty damn bad. They don't call much holding. This will bring Clady back to pro-bowl level, but hurt doom-von. The "real" refs did swing the Seattle vs Pittsburgh SUPERBOWL. For that reason alone, they don't deserve a lifetime pension IMO ;) Sunday will be a bit of an officiating mess. No doubts there.

Garcia Bronco
09-06-2012, 05:47 AM
Eventually, these refs will be on par with the old ones.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
09-06-2012, 06:06 AM
Eventually, these refs will be on par with the old ones.

You base this on...

The first call of the game last night was ****ed up.

Over the last 10 years, you can name maybe 10 big **** ups by the real refs. Over the preseason, there have been several IN EACH GAME. Last night, there were plenty.

Keep that head in the sand and breathe deep, Garcia.

menonite
09-06-2012, 09:21 AM
I think they did a very good job last night. At least as good as the regular refs.