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View Full Version : What does this say about Ayers?


swaiy
09-03-2012, 01:49 PM
Denver, defensive end Derek Wolfe: The second-round pick is going to start at left end. The versatile Wolfe can slide inside as well. Wolfe has been a terrific player this summer for Denver, and the Broncos donít think the game will be too big for him in the regular season.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcwest/post/_/id/47760/rookies-have-key-week-1-roles


He lost his job to Jason Hunter. After Hunter goes down, he loses it to Wolfe. Maybe this just means Wolfe is that damn good.

AmericanBroncFan
09-03-2012, 01:52 PM
It means he's a BUST just like Moreno. Mcd had talent. How many other guys drafted 2 BUSTS in the same year in the 1st round in NFL history?

oubronco
09-03-2012, 01:53 PM
Losing the job two times in one offseason speaks volumes

broncosteven
09-03-2012, 01:54 PM
Ayers is a one trick pony. He is good as a run stuffing DE in the 4-3. The few sacks he does have were more coverage than him beating his man.

I think he is good depth but as far as 1st round value he is a bust. So glad mCd is gone.

swaiy
09-03-2012, 01:57 PM
What a damn shame. I'm hoping Wolfe is the other piece to a dominant pass rush.

boppool
09-03-2012, 02:06 PM
It means he's a BUST just like Moreno. Mcd had talent. How many other guys drafted 2 BUSTS in the same year in the 1st round in NFL history?

I'm glad Wolfe has been great for us. As for Ayers, Mayock also had Ayers on top of his list at DE. I still won't label Ayers as a "bust" yet, as he showed flashes of being a quality DE. Hope he can be effective as a rotational guy.

DENVERDUI55
09-03-2012, 02:24 PM
It means the project known as Ayers didn't turn out to be best defensive player from the draft. He is a decent player but not worth his draft position. F-off MCD.

SoCalBronco
09-03-2012, 02:31 PM
Awoooooooo

elsid13
09-03-2012, 02:31 PM
Hopefully someone will give Denver a late round pick for him.

broncosteven
09-03-2012, 02:36 PM
Hopefully someone will give Denver a late round pick for him.

We will need him on run downs or for depth but I am so glad that JDR and Fox are sending the message to these guys that they have to keep getting better if they want their jobs.

I sure hope KM brings what he was bringing vs the Cards 2nd and 3rd stringers in the last PS game during the regular season, or at least until Detroit breaks down and sends a 7th round pick for him...

manchambo
09-03-2012, 02:44 PM
I always wonder how it affects a young player's development to jerk him around on position. He comes into the league, "now you're a lb." He tries to figure that out, "ok you're an end again." not saying he would have been an all pro, but I do wonder how much it stunts some players to be constantly changing techniques, and even body type to a certain extent.

Gcver2ver3
09-03-2012, 02:45 PM
ayers was selected 18th overall in the 09 draft, so i looked at the 17 players selected before him...

i'd say at least 10 of the players selected before ayers are also busts... its a crap shoot in drafts period... McD drafted terribly no doubt, but whenever you look back in the 1st round of nfl drafts years after the fact, it shows that most coaches blew it with their picks...

KipCorrington25
09-03-2012, 03:01 PM
He sucks. Thanks again McNumbnuts.

enjolras
09-03-2012, 03:04 PM
ayers was selected 18th overall in the 09 draft, so i looked at the 17 players selected before him...

i'd say at least 10 of the players selected before ayers are also busts... its a crap shoot in drafts period... McD drafted terribly no doubt, but whenever you look back in the 1st round of nfl drafts years after the fact, it shows that most coaches blew it with their picks...

Man.. looking at the whole first round in 2009 is pretty interesting. It seems like a pretty bad draft overall.

Inkana7
09-03-2012, 03:08 PM
He sucks. Thanks again McNumbnuts.

Ayers is a lot of things, but a bad player he is not. If he can't beat out Hunter or Wolfe for a starting spot, that just means that our DLine depth is that much better, because Ayers is a very solid DE.

fontaine
09-03-2012, 03:12 PM
No big deal. I never really had high hopes for Ayers anyway.

Right from him first year I saw a player that had no explosion, fluidity only some functional strength.

It's not the first or last McD screwup that Elway and co will fix.

BroncoBuff
09-03-2012, 03:23 PM
Nobody ever mentions Malik Jackson, but I'll bet he plays as many downs as Ayers this season, maybe more.

Ayers' #1 competitor hasn't been Wolfe for weeks now, it's Jackson now.

Punisher
09-03-2012, 03:26 PM
http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/the-huddle/2010/12/06/mcdanielsx-large.jpg

Lestat
09-03-2012, 03:27 PM
he was moved to back up Doom, never made a bunch of sense outside of Hunter being a better pass rusher.
we already know Wolfe will play DE & DT in the scheme so Ayera not "starting" isn't as big as how much PT he gets and how many snaps he plays.
Bunkley started last season but he played about 40% of the snaps.

halfback
09-03-2012, 03:29 PM
I reserve judgement until the season, seeing as against the steelers in the playoffs he dominated and had his best game as a pro

Houshyamama
09-03-2012, 03:31 PM
Denver is so used to having such a HORRIBLE defensive line, if a player can't crack the starting line up he is immediately regarded as a scrub. I think that Ayers not starting is more indicative of the depth of talent on the d line at this point. Ayers is a solid starting DE in the NFL.

R-Mac
09-03-2012, 03:34 PM
M. Stafford
J. Smith
T. Jackson
A. Curry
M. Sanchez
A. Smith
D. Heyward-Bey
E. Monroe
B.J. Raji
M. Crabtree
A. Maybin
K. Moreno
B. Orakpo
M. Jenkins
B. Cushing
L. English
J. Freeman
R. Ayers
J. Maclin
B. Pettigrew
A. Mack
P. Harvin
M. Oher
P. Jerry
V. Davis
C. Matthews
D. Brown
E. Wood
H. Nicks
K. Britt
C. Wells
E. Hood

The 2009 1st round currently has 25 starters in the NFL. The Broncos drafted 2 of the 7 backups.

BroncoBuff
09-03-2012, 03:42 PM
Denver is so used to having such a HORRIBLE defensive line, if a player can't crack the starting line up he is immediately regarded as a scrub. I think that Ayers not starting is more indicative of the depth of talent on the d line at this point. Ayers is a solid starting DE in the NFL.

Rep ... you're right.

razorwire77
09-03-2012, 04:07 PM
After Malik Jackson went ape **** in preseason and Danny Trevathan played well, I thought Ayers might be a surprise camp cut. Still think he will be part of the rotation this year.

SoCalBronco
09-03-2012, 04:20 PM
M. Stafford
J. Smith
T. Jackson
A. Curry
M. Sanchez
A. Smith
D. Heyward-Bey
E. Monroe
B.J. Raji
M. Crabtree
A. Maybin
K. Moreno
B. Orakpo
M. Jenkins
B. Cushing
L. English
J. Freeman
R. Ayers
J. Maclin
B. Pettigrew
A. Mack
P. Harvin
M. Oher
P. Jerry
V. Davis
C. Matthews
D. Brown
E. Wood
H. Nicks
K. Britt
C. Wells
E. Hood

The 2009 1st round currently has 25 starters in the NFL. The Broncos drafted 2 of the 7 backups.

Don't tell that to lonestar. He thinks McD was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Let's all praise McD's greatness and make stupid nicknames for the greatest coach in franchise history........even though it completely ignores reality!

orinjkrush
09-03-2012, 04:21 PM
ayers was selected 18th overall in the 09 draft, so i looked at the 17 players selected before him...

i'd say at least 10 of the players selected before ayers are also busts... its a crap shoot in drafts period... McD drafted terribly no doubt, but whenever you look back in the 1st round of nfl drafts years after the fact, it shows that most coaches blew it with their picks...

thats why proven players are worth two in the draft

broncocalijohn
09-03-2012, 04:28 PM
ayers was selected 18th overall in the 09 draft, so i looked at the 17 players selected before him...

i'd say at least 10 of the players selected before ayers are also busts... its a crap shoot in drafts period... McD drafted terribly no doubt, but whenever you look back in the 1st round of nfl drafts years after the fact, it shows that most coaches blew it with their picks...

But McDaniels was a master at it. He had 2 picks and screwed both of them up.

broncogary
09-03-2012, 04:29 PM
thats why proven players are worth two in the draft

Two boobs in the hand are worth three in the Bush? Hilarious!

broncocalijohn
09-03-2012, 04:37 PM
Two boobs in the hand are worth three in the Bush? Hilarious!

not if my face is already down there.

barryr
09-03-2012, 04:41 PM
I was never really that high on Ayers being drafted, especially when they planned to play him at LB, but he can still be a rotation guy at least. Granted that is not what you want from a 1st round pick.

Dr. Broncenstein
09-03-2012, 04:48 PM
Man.. looking at the whole first round in 2009 is pretty interesting. It seems like a pretty bad draft overall.

Lol. Excuses.

WolfpackGuy
09-03-2012, 04:58 PM
Don't forget McClueless traded a 2010 first rounder to get back into the second round of 2009 when everyone knew the 2010 class was going to be more talent laden.

Where have you gone, 25 name draft board?

Dr. Broncenstein
09-03-2012, 05:03 PM
Dont forget: We got Orton and Alphonso Smith in addition to Ayers. And we drafted D!ck Quinn. Not even gonna mention Moreno. Good times.

oubronco
09-03-2012, 05:04 PM
Dont forget: We got Orton and Alphonso Smith in addition to Ayers. And we drafted D!ck Quinn. Not even gonna mention Moreno. Good times.

For who?

Dr. Broncenstein
09-03-2012, 05:07 PM
For who?

The better bronco fan brigade.

Gcver2ver3
09-03-2012, 05:36 PM
But McDaniels was a master at it. He had 2 picks and screwed both of them up.

made it clear that McD drafted terribly...

i'm just saying that regardless of who is drafting, chances are the 1st rd draft choice made will not reach expectation... i don't feel so bad that ayers has been a disappointment... i instead rejoice that we seemingly got the von miller pick right... look at who went #2 in the 09 draft...

Gcver2ver3
09-03-2012, 05:38 PM
Man.. looking at the whole first round in 2009 is pretty interesting. It seems like a pretty bad draft overall.

and its practically every draft's first round...

first rd picks are a crap shoot almost as much as any other round...

ZONA
09-03-2012, 05:40 PM
After Malik Jackson went ape **** in preseason and Danny Trevathan played well, I thought Ayers might be a surprise camp cut. Still think he will be part of the rotation this year.

Jackson has been a very pleasant surprise. Excellent 5th round pick right there. I just love the effort this guy brings and his desire to not only make the tackle but try to rip the ball free when he can.


http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/uploads/5/6/9/8/5698103/527573089.jpg%3F619

errand
09-03-2012, 05:46 PM
I always wonder how it affects a young player's development to jerk him around on position. He comes into the league, "now you're a lb." He tries to figure that out, "ok you're an end again." not saying he would have been an all pro, but I do wonder how much it stunts some players to be constantly changing techniques, and even body type to a certain extent.

Mitch knows exactly what you're talking about.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiywKR-CJZQ

cutthemdown
09-03-2012, 05:54 PM
Here is what I think it says. It says the Broncos don't see him as an explosive player. They want explosive players because they feel teams will have to throw more to beat us this yr. Ayers not a total bust, but he is a let down because we gave up a good QB to get those picks. Moreno, now there is a total bust. But lets give credit for Ayers at least contributing more then Moreno to this point.

We could have taken Brian Orapko.

I think this yr though the Broncos just want players who they think can make big plays. Even at the expense of the run defense on the edges. What I like about wolfe is his motor though. He just seems to play harder and faster then Ayers.

broncosteven
09-03-2012, 06:03 PM
Here is what I think it says. It says the Broncos don't see him as an explosive player. They want explosive players because they feel teams will have to throw more to beat us this yr. Ayers not a total bust, but he is a let down because we gave up a good QB to get those picks. Moreno, now there is a total bust. But lets give credit for Ayers at least contributing more then Moreno to this point.

We could have taken Brian Orapko.

I think this yr though the Broncos just want players who they think can make big plays. Even at the expense of the run defense on the edges. What I like about wolfe is his motor though. He just seems to play harder and faster then Ayers.

I don't think KM is a total bust, especially if we get a 7th round pick from Detroit for him.

I know the worthless douche has had injury issues and turf monsters are like real and stuff but if he would just learn to be patient, look for and run to his hole rather than dancing around and trying to hide on top of his OL's backs he would be a serviceable #2ish back who could make some big plays in the passing game.

Plus when the team is down 40 he will do an endzone dance that might get the team out of it's funk and get the rally in gear... or just look lame...

McDman
09-03-2012, 06:17 PM
He lost his job to Jason Hunter. After Hunter goes down, he loses it to Wolfe. Maybe this just means Wolfe is that damn good.

Technically it didn't say anything about Ayers.

swaiy
09-03-2012, 06:26 PM
Technically it didn't say anything about Ayers.

http://cache.jezebel.com/assets/images/39/2011/10/medium_jonlevi111209b_01.gif

I see what you did there

AmericanBroncFan
09-03-2012, 06:42 PM
Hillman showed in his limited action he is already better than knosho and Ball. That kid has got vision and a burst when he see's the hole

txtebow
09-03-2012, 07:02 PM
It means he's a BUST just like Moreno. Mcd had talent. How many other guys drafted 2 BUSTS in the same year in the 1st round in NFL history?

To be fair , mike mayock who many respect as a talent evaluator was really pushing ayers upside and talking about how we had drafted the best defensive player in the draft when selecting Ayers. I can say I wasn't too high on ayers but I was on Knowshon as that guy was a highlight machine in the SEC. I am shocked that he has not translated better to the NFL.

cutthemdown
09-03-2012, 07:43 PM
I don't think KM is a total bust, especially if we get a 7th round pick from Detroit for him.

I know the worthless douche has had injury issues and turf monsters are like real and stuff but if he would just learn to be patient, look for and run to his hole rather than dancing around and trying to hide on top of his OL's backs he would be a serviceable #2ish back who could make some big plays in the passing game.

Plus when the team is down 40 he will do an endzone dance that might get the team out of it's funk and get the rally in gear... or just look lame...

Yeah but for as high as we picked him, he's sort of a bust don't you think. Especially considering we were trying to tell ourselves at the time getting two number 1 draft picks was something we should feel good about.

vancejohnson82
09-03-2012, 08:16 PM
Hillman showed in his limited action he is already better than knosho and Ball. That kid has got vision and a burst when he see's the hole

Ummmm....when??

Drek
09-04-2012, 01:04 AM
Denver is so used to having such a HORRIBLE defensive line, if a player can't crack the starting line up he is immediately regarded as a scrub. I think that Ayers not starting is more indicative of the depth of talent on the d line at this point. Ayers is a solid starting DE in the NFL.

Pretty much this. Ayers is limited as a pass rusher but is a solid overall DE. He is the kind of depth player we've all bitched about not having at any position for years. Now at DE we actually have one. Only every other position on the roster to go.


The 2009 1st round currently has 25 starters in the NFL. The Broncos drafted 2 of the 7 backups.
Ayers and Moreno have started more games than the majority of that list. Not starting now is a product of the Broncos improving at those spots whereas other teams have not in the last three drafts. But then the Broncos also underwent a regime change, increasing the willingness to replace recent early 1sts.

If you put a new GM and HC in a large number of those organizations you would see significant turnover.

In KC I really doubt a new regime would continue to start Tyson Jackson.

Ziggy Hood needed injury and ineffectiveness to open up a job for him in Pittsburgh, he didn't take it away from anybody.

Moreno outright destroys Donald Brown's production and Moreno has missed over 10 more games.

Peria Jerry has started 6 games in his career and has never recorded a sack. He's now starting because ATL simply has no one better.

No one should be arguing that Heyward Bay is in any way a better pick than either Moreno or Ayers. His first two years were completely worthless and his last season was a solid but unspectacular effort equal to Ayers' last season and Moreno's only two healthy years.

Michael Crabtree has been an unspectacular player only slightly more productive than Heyward Bey.

I could go on but suffice to say that just looking through depth charts and claiming that because someone is currently slotted to start makes them better than guys with 1. more starts and 2. better career numbers is pretty foolish.

Bacchus
09-04-2012, 02:15 AM
ayers was selected 18th overall in the 09 draft, so i looked at the 17 players selected before him...

i'd say at least 10 of the players selected before ayers are also busts... its a crap shoot in drafts period... McD drafted terribly no doubt, but whenever you look back in the 1st round of nfl drafts years after the fact, it shows that most coaches blew it with their picks...

That what I have always said about the drafts when it concerned Shanahan. I think it was the 2007 draft when Denver selected Moss in the first. If you look at the entire first round it was a horrible draft. I read different message boards and most people feel their teams do not draft well. It is strange but it is a crap shoot you would think it wouldn't be but it is.

lonestar
09-04-2012, 02:52 AM
Ayers is a one trick pony. He is good as a run stuffing DE in the 4-3. The few sacks he does have were more coverage than him beating his man.

I think he is good depth but as far as 1st round value he is a bust. So glad mCd is gone.

Not so sure tha he is not a pass rush guy his lack of sacks just meant that Doom got there first.

I remember him being right there on the opposite side of the QB when doom sacked the Him. It was a matter of a milan second before he would have wrapped him up..

Who knows if his being there may have helped Doom get the sack..

Can guys replace others sure that is the whole idea drafting players to push and force every one to get better. ..

Not sure that Ayers is a one trick pony like you seem to think he is..

I suspect he will see plenty of playing time this year as we all know that rookies normally hit the wall at or about game ten. If JDR uses him above average he may hit it sooner. .. We also know that there is a lot of rotation that goes on on the DL..

Time will tell..

colonelbeef
09-04-2012, 10:12 AM
Wolfe being a legit starter means Elway knows what he is doing drafting.

houghtam
09-04-2012, 10:16 AM
Man.. looking at the whole first round in 2009 is pretty interesting. It seems like a pretty bad draft overall.

This. And it's not just the first round. The whole draft was horrible. Fewer players from that draft made their team that very same year than any other in the past 10 years.

broncocalijohn
09-04-2012, 10:35 AM
Pretty much this. Ayers is limited as a pass rusher but is a solid overall DE. He is the kind of depth player we've all b****ed about not having at any position for years. Now at DE we actually have one. Only every other position on the roster to go.


Ayers and Moreno have started more games than the majority of that list. Not starting now is a product of the Broncos improving at those spots whereas other teams have not in the last three drafts. But then the Broncos also underwent a regime change, increasing the willingness to replace recent early 1sts.

If you put a new GM and HC in a large number of those organizations you would see significant turnover.

In KC I really doubt a new regime would continue to start Tyson Jackson.

Ziggy Hood needed injury and ineffectiveness to open up a job for him in Pittsburgh, he didn't take it away from anybody.

Moreno outright destroys Donald Brown's production and Moreno has missed over 10 more games.

Peria Jerry has started 6 games in his career and has never recorded a sack. He's now starting because ATL simply has no one better.

No one should be arguing that Heyward Bay is in any way a better pick than either Moreno or Ayers. His first two years were completely worthless and his last season was a solid but unspectacular effort equal to Ayers' last season and Moreno's only two healthy years.

Michael Crabtree has been an unspectacular player only slightly more productive than Heyward Bey.

I could go on but suffice to say that just looking through depth charts and claiming that because someone is currently slotted to start makes them better than guys with 1. more starts and 2. better career numbers is pretty foolish.

If Moreno produces like the first round choice he was, no GM, new or the same, touches him out of that position. Furthermore, you wouldn't draft high on a RB if you thought yours was doing a great job at starting. We didn't get that with Moreno or Ayers. At where they were drafted, McDaniels failed....again.
What is foolish if Wolfe is better than Ayers based on depth chart? You think the coaches are putting Wolfe in even if he isn't better than Ayers? I think you are the fool for thinking this. We want the best players at their positions to start. It is football and you can find guys with good numbers in a previous year and tank in the next. Wear and tear , man! If Wolfe is starting over Ayers for his first professional game, it tells you that either Wolfe is above the curve or Ayers just isn't good enough to start.

Irish Stout
09-04-2012, 10:52 AM
Man.. looking at the whole first round in 2009 is pretty interesting. It seems like a pretty bad draft overall.

I don't know, looks like a decent draft...

Pk Player Pos. Team Status
1. Matthew Stafford QB Detroit
2. Jason Smith OT St. Louis
3. Tyson Jackson DE Kansas City Signed
4. Aaron Curry LB Seattle
5. Mark Sanchez QB N.Y. Jets
6. Andre Smith OT Cincinnati
7. Darrius Heyward-Bey WR Oakland
8. Eugene Monroe OT Jacksonville
9. B.J. Raji DT Green Bay Signed
10. Michael Crabtree WR San Francisco
11. Aaron Maybin DE Buffalo
12. Knowshon Moreno RB Denver
13. Brian Orakpo DE Washington
14. Malcolm Jenkins CB New Orleans
15. Brian Cushing LB Houston
16. Larry English DE San Diego
17. Josh Freeman QB Tampa Bay
18. Robert Ayers LB Denver
19. Jeremy Maclin WR Philadelphia
20. Brandon Pettigrew TE Detroit
21. Alex Mack C Cleveland
22. Percy Harvin WR Minnesota
23. Michael Oher OT Baltimore
24. Peria Jerry DT Atlanta
25. Vontae Davis CB Miami
26. Clay Matthews LB Green Bay
27. Donald Brown RB Indianapolis
28. Eric Wood C Buffalo
29. Hakeem Nicks WR N.Y. Giants
30. Kenny Britt WR Tennessee
31. Chris "Beanie" Wells RB Arizona
32. Evander "Ziggy" Hood DT Pittsburgh

Irish Stout
09-04-2012, 10:54 AM
Could have had Orakpo, Matthews and/or Harvin instead of Ayers and Moreno.

dictionary
09-04-2012, 10:57 AM
If Moreno produces like the first round choice he was, no GM, new or the same, touches him out of that position. Furthermore, you wouldn't draft high on a RB if you thought yours was doing a great job at starting. We didn't get that with Moreno or Ayers. At where they were drafted, McDaniels failed....again.
What is foolish if Wolfe is better than Ayers based on depth chart? You think the coaches are putting Wolfe in even if he isn't better than Ayers? I think you are the fool for thinking this. We want the best players at their positions to start. It is football and you can find guys with good numbers in a previous year and tank in the next. Wear and tear , man! If Wolfe is starting over Ayers for his first professional game, it tells you that either Wolfe is above the curve or Ayers just isn't good enough to start.

Rep. That is very good analytical work on perceived value, depth, and draft stock. I agree with you on the "if" regarding Moreno--I am still hoping that he takes a page from McGahee and plays with a chip on his shoulder. It has been too long since Denver had a stable of different style running backs.

Drek
09-04-2012, 12:19 PM
If Moreno produces like the first round choice he was, no GM, new or the same, touches him out of that position.
1. Reading is clearly not your strong suit.

2. I didn't say that Moreno had produced up to his draft selection. Just that it is far easier for new guys to dump a high pick three years in due to a lack of production than it is for the guys who drafted them to do the same. The "its your mistake" stigma plays heavily in FO decision making.

Furthermore, you wouldn't draft high on a RB if you thought yours was doing a great job at starting.
See above.

We didn't get that with Moreno or Ayers. At where they were drafted, McDaniels failed....again.
3. Obviously, much like the majority of GMs picking in the first round of 2009.

Thank god for us he stepped it up the next year and drafted 5 starters in 5 picks in 2010.

What is foolish if Wolfe is better than Ayers based on depth chart? You think the coaches are putting Wolfe in even if he isn't better than Ayers? I think you are the fool for thinking this.
4. When did I say that? I said Wolfe is obviously the better player and the FO and coaches clearly love what he brings to the table. In fact, I also said he would have probably taken Hunter's job in short order as well had Hunter stayed healthy. Wolfe is a better pass rusher than Ayers and a better run defender than Hunter has ever been previously in his career. He was a fantastic pick.

We want the best players at their positions to start. It is football and you can find guys with good numbers in a previous year and tank in the next. Wear and tear , man! If Wolfe is starting over Ayers for his first professional game, it tells you that either Wolfe is above the curve or Ayers just isn't good enough to start.
Which was exactly my point. Wolfe is cearly the better player right now. That doesn't mean Ayers is junk, it just means that Wolfe is currently looking like a standout.

Ayers was good enough to start all last season and be productive. He was good enough that when selecting Wolfe the staff viewed him as a situational pass rush guy. Did Ayers suddenly get worse, or has he failed to get significantly better while Wolfe is well ahead of the curve?

Its not hard to do the math here. No one was throwing Haggan under the bus last year when he couldn't stave off Von Miller for the SOLB job. Similar scenario, just with a smaller talent divide. Wolfe isn't as good as Miller and Ayers is better than Haggan, but in the end all that matters is Wolfe being better than Ayers, which he is.

RunSilentRunDeep
09-04-2012, 12:41 PM
This isn't a defense of Ayers, but sometimes coaches just stick players at their best positions and don't force the "best 11" strategy if the pieces don't fit.

Del Rio told Dave Logan that Ayers was having a good camp and that he really liked him on the open side. So what's wrong with Ayers keeping Doom fresh while playing at his best spot? Wolfe and Jackson are just naturally built better for the strong side.

Play2win
09-04-2012, 12:50 PM
Maybe we have the beginnings of a NY Giants type of thang going on here. Here's hoping :thumbsup:

Lestat
09-04-2012, 01:09 PM
This isn't a defense of Ayers, but sometimes coaches just stick players at their best positions and don't force the "best 11" strategy if the pieces don't fit.

Del Rio told Dave Logan that Ayers was having a good camp and that he really liked him on the open side. So what's wrong with Ayers keeping Doom fresh while playing at his best spot? Wolfe and Jackson are just naturally built better for the strong side.

nothing in reality, but perception wise our DL is severely weak and if Ayers is one of your better DL(which in the past he has been) then why do you bring him off the bench when you have a perceived hole on the other side.

ideally we'd all like to see Ayers,Warren,Wolfe & Doom as the starting DL.
but that's not how they want to use them on the D and Jackson looks like he has a lot of potential and Wolfe will make an impact at either DL spot.

cutthemdown
09-04-2012, 01:37 PM
Wolfe is in a great spot to have a big rookie yr. Think about it. He is more explosive then Ayers and IMO just looks like he has a bigger motor. That will serve him will considering he has Miller coming off the edge on many of the passing downs. If not coming off the edge then at least the offense worrying he will.

On the other side Doom looks like he could be in beast mode already. He looked fantastic in preseason. IMO the best he has ever looked. He just looks epically hard to block right now. All that attention outside on the edges is going to give Wolfe chances to get to the QB.

He may even get near 10 sacks. Not saying he will get ten, but I could see 6-8 almost a lock.

Drek
09-04-2012, 01:41 PM
Maybe we have the beginnings of a NY Giants type of thang going on here. Here's hoping :thumbsup:

We definitely do. Del Rio and Fox clearly want to build that kind of DL rotation.

The important question with regards to Ayers though is what role he plays in that rotation. If he can grow as a pass rusher he could have a significant role. If not he should be Doom's caddie for running downs.

BroncoFanDoug
09-04-2012, 03:40 PM
Here is what confuses me. It seems that some people here think because KM and Ayers have not produced at the level you would like to see for their draft position, and even more, because they were drafted by McD who is appropriately hated by most Bronco fans, that they should be cut.

We instead need to evaluate whether or not at their pay grade and their talent level they are worth keeping. Nothing else. It does not matter one wit where they were drafted or by whom.

IMHO Ayers is a very solid rotational DLman even if he has not lived up to his potential. KM's biggest problem has been staying healthy (and is still a big concern), but really is a prototypical 3rd down back who blocks very well but is marginal between the tackles. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think either are costing us much this coming year.

I just don't care that they should be doing better based on draft position, or that they were drafted by the hated McD, they both look like fine pieces to this team.

Rock Chalk
09-04-2012, 03:54 PM
Ayer's certainly isn't a pass rusher but what Ayers can do is stop the run better than anyone on the ends. Anyone saying anything different doesnt know **** about Dlinemen. He seals his edge far better than Dumervil ever has or will.

There is no reason whatsoever to cut Ayers. You dont cut the best run stopper you have at DE when you play against run heavy teams that are in the AFC West. That's stupid and one of several thousand reasons why none of you armchair idiots are running an NFL team.

Lestat
09-04-2012, 05:46 PM
the issue with Ayers is his lack of pass rush skills and who could have been drafted instead of him.
most who are so irritated by his production didn't pay attention to the fact that he was not a pass rusher in college and hang onto Mayock saying he had the potential to be the best defensive player to come out of the draft.
he's stout against the run and will hold the LOS well, he's not gonna get you sacks though.
plus he was taken with the initial 1st rounder we got in the Cutler deal.
so trading a franchise QB got us Ayers(though we traded down in the 2010 draft and got D Thomas)

Moreno is more of a issue of him being seen as a potential franchise RB and not living up to that hype. he's been injured, he's been inconsistent and all without truly flashing anything special so it seems like a waste of a pick.
he's good at blocking,blitz pick up and catching the ball. he can find a niche for himself on this team and excel if he can stay healthy.