PDA

View Full Version : Mane Pulse: Should Knowshon Make The Team?


Ronnie Tsunami
08-29-2012, 07:30 AM
Discuss. I believe there are three types of people on the mane.

The first thinks that Slowshon isn't worth the football he fumbles. They think that despite his less-than-$900,000 salary this year, he should be cut in favor of a more promising back such as Jeremiah Johnson. He can't contribute on special teams and he has no hope. Might as well cut him, there is no optimism here. Slowshon will never be more than an injury prone 3rd down back. Cut. Our. Losses.

The second thinks that the jury is still out on Slowshon, even though they have a suspicion he will never be anything more than a backup. They believe he should be kept on the roster at all costs primarily due to his low salary and a few hopeful bursts of talent every few snaps. They remember that, just plays before his season ending injury last year, he actually shook off and then hurdled a defender en route to a surprisingly large gain. Last week, they saw his brutal stiff arm against a 49er rookie, and hope to keep him around. They think he is worth $900,000.

The third, frankly, has moved on. DGAF. If he makes the team, "good for him." If he gets cut, "Whatever, the bust sucked anyway."

I find myself partial to the 2nd option. I think he's too cheap to let go, and while I am a realist, and understand he is a long shot to be anything substantial, we should use him as a change of pace, 100 carry type guy. Good check down option for '12, even if takes touches away from Jeremiah.

Garcia Bronco
08-29-2012, 07:34 AM
I see no reasonto. ut him if he's the 2nd or 3rd best back on the team. He is what he is. Play'em a little and get him in space so his lack of vision less of a problem. That means throw him the ball and find ways to get said space.

Ray Finkle
08-29-2012, 07:51 AM
He provides a good depth RB. If you keep 4, he is better than the alternative. I think he can prove more useful then Ball.

The Joker
08-29-2012, 07:52 AM
I think you have to keep him as the 3rd down back.

If Hillman had been healthy through camp and gotten some more reps with the first team unit then I could see Knowshon being expendable for sure, but there's a question mark there.

He's been a huge disappointment given we spent the twelfth overall pick on him, but he still has some ability as a runner and has good hands and pass protects well.

I won't lose any sleep if we ditch him all the same.

Rascal
08-29-2012, 07:53 AM
He should be traded to the Lions for a draft pick or LB depth.

Crushaholic
08-29-2012, 07:59 AM
If he can't contribute on special teams, get.him.out. I don't believe that he is the future of the Broncos running game. Put me in the Type 1 category...

Boobs McGee
08-29-2012, 08:13 AM
Still of the opinion that when healthy, he has the opportunity to be GREAT in space. It seems, imo, that a LOT of his carries start with line protection problems (people in the backfield as soon as he touches the ball, poor blocking, etc), and I think that having a QB who can make adjustments on the fly will really help his style of running.

ozomulsion
08-29-2012, 08:30 AM
What about that ill advised swing pass that left him to have to break away from 2 defenders behind the line of scrimmage, and some how turned it into a first down. If Hillman had done that OMG....The whole orangemane would be freaking out about how great he is. Fact is, he's averaged over 10 YPR over his career, and not many RBs in the NFL can claim that.

Rabb
08-29-2012, 08:34 AM
What about that ill advised swing pass that left him to have to break away from 2 defenders behind the line of scrimmage, and some how turned it into a first down. If Hillman had done that OMG....The whole orangemane would be freaking out about how great he is. Fact is, he's averaged over 10 YPR over his career, and not many RBs in the NFL can claim that.

I don't disagree entirely, but you don't spend a #12 pick on a guy that can pick up blitzes and perform well with swing passes

eventually he has to, you know...run consistently as well

he isn't just awful, but he's a major disappointment whether it's fair to say or not

Dr. Broncenstein
08-29-2012, 08:34 AM
A backup who can't stay healthy and doesn't play special teams. Drives drunk with a license plate describing his drunken state. Definitely worth a roster spot.

DENVERDUI55
08-29-2012, 08:36 AM
I don't disagree entirely, but you don't spend a #12 pick on a guy that can pick up blitzes and perform well with swing passes

eventually he has to, you know...run consistently as well

he isn't just awful, but he's a major disappointment whether it's fair to say or not

He loves the guy let him bask in the glory. Moreno has been a big underachiever and I'm ready to move on. His upside is he is cheap and we might as well roll with him give him his couple catches and carries then when he gets hurt IR him then cut him.

cutthemdown
08-29-2012, 08:43 AM
You can find better backs on the waiver wire most likely. He just looks so slow I don't get why they drafted him. Rbs should blow you away with talent to get into the first round.

Rabb
08-29-2012, 08:45 AM
the fun part will be having this exact discussion again next year

fontaine
08-29-2012, 08:48 AM
Moreno is a decent backup RB. Good pass catcher, decent blocker, and average runner.

You're not going to find that on the waiver wire. The real question is if we cut Moreno do we have anyone better or equivalent to replace him? I don't see it in Jeremiah Johnson, Fanin is injured, and the rest were training camp fodder.

Every year going back a decade we've seen injuries at the RB position so do we really want to be in a situation where Lance Ball is the starting RB if McGahee misses time?

As much as I'm underwhelmed by Moreno, I would start him over Ball.

Archer81
08-29-2012, 08:50 AM
This poll is insufficient.


:Broncos:

Stagger Lee
08-29-2012, 08:55 AM
#3 for me. Just don't give a damn about him anymore. Keep him, cut him, whatever. The end result will be about the same, not much help to this offense.

razorwire77
08-29-2012, 08:57 AM
Type 2 for me.

I don't think Moreno has the physical abilities to become a feature back in the NFL. Add to that his idiotic off field Sauced incident and injury history and I think if we had quality RB depth at all that he would be gone.

That being said, we don't have quality depth and as such Moreno should make the team based on his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield and that he is pretty decent in protection. Hillman though talented isn't ready to get significant touches in a game. Ball is the type of grinder/special teamer that you need on a roster, but not a guy you want as a 1A or 1B RB option. As as mentioned earlier everybody else is camp fodder.

Requiem
08-29-2012, 08:58 AM
I've been a fan of Knowshon since he was at Georgia. I think he can excel this year in this offense. No sense in cutting him.

fontaine
08-29-2012, 09:03 AM
I've been a fan of Knowshon since he was at Georgia. I think he can excel this year in this offense. No sense in cutting him.

I think he can excel also. But he's definitely not the type of back that can play better than his OL. The interior of the OL really has been a mess and combined with him getting injured too often has really hurt him.

This is pretty much Moreno's final chance though. Hillman was specifically drafted to replace his skillset.

spdirty
08-29-2012, 09:07 AM
Well, he's better than Ball.

crush17
08-29-2012, 09:08 AM
There is absolutely no reason to get rid of him this season. He is ideal for this type of offense if we use him in space, and he's excellent at picking up the blitz on 3rd downs. He has earned a roster spot, like it or not.

He will be on this team.

Rabb
08-29-2012, 09:13 AM
I am not sure I would say he has earned a spot, I think he will get one because we have no better options.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-29-2012, 09:15 AM
I think we need the depth.

Plus, he's better than Lance Ball. Not by much, but he is better.

Drek
08-29-2012, 09:25 AM
A backup who can't stay healthy and doesn't play special teams. Drives drunk with a license plate describing his drunken state. Definitely worth a roster spot.

As opposed to his competition for the #3 spot who is a mediocre special teamer, can't break any tackles, fumbles regularly, and is literally worse than Moreno at everything.

And those two (Ball and Moreno) are head and shoulders above the other guys we brought in to compete for the 3rd RB job.

Still think we should move Moreno to slot WR long term though.

Greatspirits
08-29-2012, 09:41 AM
Keep him, this league is tough on running backs and you can never have enough of them. Yes he's under-performed but I still think he can be a valuable contributor to this team.

gyldenlove
08-29-2012, 09:46 AM
It makes no sense to cut him, we know RB is probably the most injury prone position in football and we have to ask ourselves if the money we can save by cutting him and keeping someone like Trevarthan in the last roster spot is really worth the risk of having to pick up a RB off the proverbial NFL trashpile midway through the season when invariably one of our RBs go down. That RB we pick up will not know the nomenclature, will not know the audibles and the protection schemes Manning uses and may not be any better or even as good from a pure talent point of view as Moreno.

Regardless how we slice it, this team is build to succeed right now and I believe part of that is to keep players who have the highest probability of helping this year - that means cutting someone like Trevarthan and trying to stash him on PS and keeping Moreno then I think that is what has to be done.

canadianbroncosfan
08-29-2012, 10:08 AM
Well, he's better than Ball.

^

Knowshon sitting on the bench is less detrimental to this team than every time Lance gets on the field

v2micca
08-29-2012, 10:17 AM
Yeah, pretty firmly type 3 on this one. If he can make the team and actually contribute to our success, good for him and good for the Broncos. If he can't, well its not the first and unfortunately will not be the last time we where underwhelmed by a first round draft pick.

Swedish Extrovert
08-29-2012, 10:20 AM
As opposed to his competition for the #3 spot who is a mediocre special teamer, can't break any tackles, fumbles regularly, and is literally worse than Moreno at everything.

And those two (Ball and Moreno) are head and shoulders above the other guys we brought in to compete for the 3rd RB job.

Still think we should move Moreno to slot WR long term though.


I don't know why this hasn't been brought up more often.

Didn't Moreno get down to like 190 last offseason? With his skill set, I think we should use him wide and get him the ball in space.

mkporter
08-29-2012, 10:24 AM
I don't disagree entirely, but you don't spend a #12 pick on a guy that can pick up blitzes and perform well with swing passes

eventually he has to, you know...run consistently as well

he isn't just awful, but he's a major disappointment whether it's fair to say or not

The fact that we spent a #12 pick on him has no relevance at this point. That cost has been sunk already. The only thing that matters now is whether or not he is worth $900k/year and a roster spot.

Rabb
08-29-2012, 10:37 AM
I don't think he is fast enough to warrant a switch to WR personally.

And it's relevant to me where he was picked, but to each his own. I don't care if he stays or goes, but the fact that we are even discussing him versus Ball tells us all we need to know here.

Tombstone RJ
08-29-2012, 10:39 AM
I don't think he is fast enough to warrant a switch to WR personally.

And it's relevant to me where he was picked, but to each his own. I don't care if he stays or goes, but the fact that we are even discussing him versus Ball tells us all we need to know here.

Bingo!

bombay
08-29-2012, 11:04 AM
why did I vote before I knew what the choices meant?

Swedish Extrovert
08-29-2012, 11:13 AM
The speed was a concern... but it's not like he's going to be running fly routes.

vancejohnson82
08-29-2012, 11:16 AM
I would like to see one more year out of him in Denver....last year, he began to show a little glimpse of what we wanted him for...and in a heartbeat the injury happened

Swedish Extrovert
08-29-2012, 11:18 AM
Knowshon was having a good season before the injury in KC.

Rabb
08-29-2012, 11:18 AM
The speed was a concern... but it's not like he's going to be running fly routes.

So instead of a running back that can't always run the ball, we would have a WR that can't run every route.

Sounds great!

Nwp-Apap
08-29-2012, 11:20 AM
I don't know why this hasn't been brought up more often.

Didn't Moreno get down to like 190 last offseason? With his skill set, I think we should use him wide and get him the ball in space.

Yeah, but he got back up over 215 since his injury. I'd say he's around 220 honestly.

That's just a guess from training camp, though. Based on the fact that we're roughly the same height and I'm 210 at 12% BF, he looks a good 10 lbs bigger than I, and less body fat.

That ACL time off is good time for juicing..

vancejohnson82
08-29-2012, 11:20 AM
So instead of a running back that can't always run the ball, we would have a WR that can't run every route.

Sounds great!

technically, that would make two WRs who can't run every route...you forgot about DT

Swedish Extrovert
08-29-2012, 11:21 AM
Also, "good" is relative... he's been a disappointment considering the expectations.

Lestat
08-29-2012, 11:23 AM
i wanna see how he comes back from his injury and if having a QB like Peyton allows him to flourish with his receiving skills out of the backfield.
now if he doesn't show something this year then let him go next season.

Rabb
08-29-2012, 11:23 AM
Also, "good" is relative... he's been a disappointment considering the expectations.

I think that is my overall point with KM also. At best, I would be ok with him here for depth but any hope I had for him being our feature back is long gone. I am not even a Moreno hater, hell I WANT the kid to succeed.

I just don't see it happening. Not here.

Swedish Extrovert
08-29-2012, 11:45 AM
Actually, I would take Moreno over Ball, and, at least for this season, over Hillman. I see him getting some carries behind McGahee.

Bacchus
08-29-2012, 11:48 AM
Actually, I would take Moreno over Ball, and, at least for this season, over Hillman. I see him getting some carries behind McGahee.

Moreno does not play special teams, Ball does.

Lolad
08-29-2012, 11:51 AM
I know the staff loves Ball, and even though I'm not high on Moreno he is better than Ball. Cut Ball keep Moreno

Goobzilla
08-29-2012, 11:56 AM
Non-factor on or off the roster. I'm a Type 3

Beantown Bronco
08-29-2012, 11:58 AM
With all the focus here being on where he was drafted in relation to how he's performed, I thought I'd look back at our last 15 first rounders, just to put his contribution in perspective:

Marcus Nash
Al Wilson
Deltha O'Neal
Willie Middlebrooks
Ashley Lelie
George Foster
D. J. Williams
Jay Cutler
Jarvis Moss
Ryan Clady
Knowshon Moreno
Robert Ayers
Demaryius Thomas
Tim Tebow
Von Miller

How many of them have done more for the Broncos in their time here? 3? 4? 5? He's clearly in the top half of this list. Maybe top 3rd. He'll clearly be in the top 5 in a few months if he has so much as just an average year for him.

Right now, he's the 2nd best rb on our roster. By a significant margin, I'd say. And the chances of McGahee and the others staying healthy for a full season seems to go against everything the Broncos stand for the last few years, so we need all the talent we can get there.

It would be a monumentally stupid decision to simply cut him. It's not gonna happen.

2KBack
08-29-2012, 12:19 PM
With all the focus here being on where he was drafted in relation to how he's performed, I thought I'd look back at our last 15 first rounders, just to put his contribution in perspective:

Marcus Nash
Al Wilson
Deltha O'Neal
Willie Middlebrooks
Ashley Lelie
George Foster
D. J. Williams
Jay Cutler
Jarvis Moss
Ryan Clady
Knowshon Moreno
Robert Ayers
Demaryius Thomas
Tim Tebow
Von Miller

How many of them have done more for the Broncos in their time here? 3? 4? 5? He's clearly in the top half of this list. Maybe top 3rd. He'll clearly be in the top 5 in a few months if he has so much as just an average year for him.

Right now, he's the 2nd best rb on our roster. By a significant margin, I'd say. And the chances of McGahee and the others staying healthy for a full season seems to go against everything the Broncos stand for the last few years, so we need all the talent we can get there.

It would be a monumentally stupid decision to simply cut him. It's not gonna happen.

I have never seen such an oddly adverse reaction to a player before, that really doesn't deserve it. I'm starting to think many Bronco fans are conditioned by the Shanny years, and expect no names to bust out 1300 yard seasons. So when we finally got a top college RB in the fold we expected dominance. That time is so doneski, McD saw to that. We had a CFL position coach brought in to coach the Oline....read that again....we went to Canada to get our oline coach. We eliminated the zone scheme, we started a QB whose biggest weakness was stretching the field, started 2 questionable rookies on the interior of the line and Moreno got pounded in the back field for it. We are finally getting the running game going the right direction, and we want to ship this guy out (or worse, just cut him).

It doesn't make sense

Drek
08-29-2012, 01:45 PM
I don't think he is fast enough to warrant a switch to WR personally.

Hell of a lot faster than Stokley.

People act like he's got cinder blocks for feet. Dude has had some good gains in the passing game where he actually ran by people. He can't do it in the running game because he's too indecisive and never gets up to speed as he's always dancing.

His lateral agility and acceleration blows away 99% of the NFL. Those are the abilities that let you create separation. Running primarily shorter routes he could be a real weapon.

Regardless, at this point we can't really call Hillman the #2 because he hasn't been healthy long enough this pre-season to show ****. Ball isn't even close to Moreno in terms of talent, and Ball isn't exactly David Bruton on special teams. He's a JAG, just like JJ. You cut Ball and JJ and whenever McGahee, Moreno, or Hillman gets hurt you can pick either one right back up off their couch. You let Moreno go and someone WILL sign him, quickly.

Lolad
08-29-2012, 03:13 PM
Hell of a lot faster than Stokley.

People act like he's got cinder blocks for feet. Dude has had some good gains in the passing game where he actually ran by people. He can't do it in the running game because he's too indecisive and never gets up to speed as he's always dancing.

His lateral agility and acceleration blows away 99% of the NFL. Those are the abilities that let you create separation. Running primarily shorter routes he could be a real weapon.

Regardless, at this point we can't really call Hillman the #2 because he hasn't been healthy long enough this pre-season to show ****. Ball isn't even close to Moreno in terms of talent, and Ball isn't exactly David Bruton on special teams. He's a JAG, just like JJ. You cut Ball and JJ and whenever McGahee, Moreno, or Hillman gets hurt you can pick either one right back up off their couch. You let Moreno go and someone WILL sign him, quickly.

I don't think he has this great lateral agility because he consistently gets tackled in space with 1 to beat

AmericanBroncFan
08-29-2012, 04:31 PM
The Broncos are not the welfare office. It's time to get rid of this bum. He's making money his ass will never earn.

Agamemnon
08-29-2012, 04:37 PM
As opposed to his competition for the #3 spot who is a mediocre special teamer, can't break any tackles, fumbles regularly, and is literally worse than Moreno at everything.

And those two (Ball and Moreno) are head and shoulders above the other guys we brought in to compete for the 3rd RB job.

Still think we should move Moreno to slot WR long term though.

Ball isn't head and shoulders over anyone. He's just one of those guys that the coaching staff likes for no apparent reason.

DENVERDUI55
08-29-2012, 05:02 PM
Hell of a lot faster than Stokley.

.

I highly doubt that even at this stage in their careers.

comoose00
08-29-2012, 05:18 PM
imho I say keep him. I think he blocks better or as good as ball. I think is a better receiving threat than ball. I think both ball and knowshon have vision issues. They both seem to be magnets to find the closest pile of people and run towards it. If and it is a very big if he can stay health and plays with the same intensity that he played with last year and so far in the preseason then he can have his roster spot and put either omen or jj on the ps. since the 3rd back is there to block and catch more then run I feel he is a far superior option to ball or jj. I have felt for a long time we should carry 4 backs and the odd man out should be ball 9traded to Detroit for a 4th or 5th conditional pick).

comoose00
08-29-2012, 05:19 PM
^

Knowshon sitting on the bench is less detrimental to this team than every time Lance gets on the field


aint that the truth!

FireFly
08-29-2012, 05:29 PM
We gain nothing cutting him. If we keep 4 rbs, I'd say that he's at least the 4th best. Therefore cutting him would be a mistake. It's not like cutting him frees up a great deal of cap space so that we can replace him with someone else that's better

menonite
08-29-2012, 05:42 PM
If we keep 4 rbs, I'd say that he's at least the 4th best.

...I'm not so sure.

razorwire77
08-29-2012, 05:50 PM
The big issue with Moreno taking up a roster spot is the fact that he doesn't play special teams. Willis is the 1A back, Hillman was drafted as a complimentary speed back, and Ball is a quality special teams player. If you put Moreno on the roster, chances are he's going to be deactivated if Willis, Hillman, and Ball are healthy.

errand
08-29-2012, 05:58 PM
Slowshon isn't worth the football he fumbles. They think that despite his less-than-$900,000 salary this year, he should be cut in favor of a more promising back such as Jeremiah Johnson. He can't contribute on special teams and he has no hope. Might as well cut him, there is no optimism here. Slowshon will never be more than an injury prone 3rd down back. Cut. Our. Losses.




How is Jeremiah Johnson more promising? This is his 4th team in 3 seasons, and he went undrafted in '09....same year as Moreno came into league. I mean even if Moreno wasn't worthy of 12th overall selection, and was a 4th rounder, he would have been considered more "promising" than Johnson....

backup qb
08-29-2012, 06:00 PM
I am a type 2.5.

errand
08-29-2012, 06:21 PM
Fact is, he's averaged over 10 YPR over his career, and not many RBs in the NFL can claim that.

Actually, he averages 9.0 per reception over his career...(still very good)

cutthemdown
08-29-2012, 06:34 PM
Broncos will keep a FB also though. That could make it even tougher for Moreno. Broncos may cut him.

errand
08-29-2012, 06:49 PM
Also...just because Moreno doesn't play special teams doesn't mean he's unwilling to do so. Could be the coaches haven't asked or ordered him to play special teams....btw, McGahee doesn't play special teams either

ozomulsion
08-29-2012, 08:31 PM
I have never seen such an oddly adverse reaction to a player before, that really doesn't deserve it. I'm starting to think many Bronco fans are conditioned by the Shanny years, and expect no names to bust out 1300 yard seasons. So when we finally got a top college RB in the fold we expected dominance. That time is so doneski, McD saw to that. We had a CFL position coach brought in to coach the Oline....read that again....we went to Canada to get our oline coach. We eliminated the zone scheme, we started a QB whose biggest weakness was stretching the field, started 2 questionable rookies on the interior of the line and Moreno got pounded in the back field for it. We are finally getting the running game going the right direction, and we want to ship this guy out (or worse, just cut him).

It doesn't make sense

You better look out now, you just made to much sense. You might get a REP like this.
"Quit being a whiney Vagina and face the facts that Moreno isnt very good. He was a reach abd has failed to produce. You should actually talk football or quit being a vagina and use the ignore." Yours truly DENVERDUI55

StugotsIII
08-29-2012, 09:20 PM
He's a player that will help Denver win games this year.


I don't give a damn about the "future." This is a team built to win now…he can help along the way. Will he be a feature guy that will run all over defenses? No…but he will be a guy that will catch the ball out of the backfield and pick up key first downs and TD's…


Dude just needs to stay healthy.

ozomulsion
08-29-2012, 09:46 PM
I don't disagree entirely, but you don't spend a #12 pick on a guy that can pick up blitzes and perform well with swing passes

eventually he has to, you know...run consistently as well

he isn't just awful, but he's a major disappointment whether it's fair to say or not

I didn't say anything about him playing like a #12 pick would be expected. Where did that come from, and where is the same criticism for Ayers? Some people act like he was a wasted pick like J. Moss. Those same people aren't gonna give him any credit when he helps us win games. Peyton loves guys like him in the passing game.

Bacchus
08-29-2012, 10:27 PM
Also...just because Moreno doesn't play special teams doesn't mean he's unwilling to do so. Could be the coaches haven't asked or ordered him to play special teams....btw, McGahee doesn't play special teams either

really, JC..... McGhee is a starter. Almost all of the starters DON'T play ST. All the guys that are not starters must play ST per JOHN Friggin Elway.

Agamemnon
08-29-2012, 11:27 PM
really, JC..... McGhee is a starter. Almost all of the starters DON'T play ST. All the guys that are not starters must play ST per JOHN Friggin Elway.

There are a lot more backups than ST spots on a team, so that's categorically untrue. Besides do you really want Osweiler covering punts? Hilarious!

broncosteven
08-30-2012, 12:05 AM
I think KM is going to continue to dance in the back field and because he gets hit from behind by DT's and crushed when he does get 5 yards down field he will get hurt alot, not because he gives out punishment but because like I said the slower bigger DT's and DE's are catching him and crushing him after he gets in space and thinks he has a break away.

I think it would be best for KM to go to a new team and get a fresh start, maybe not the Lions because they need a good RB who can carry the team until their other RB's heal up for the 1st half of the year. He should go to a team that has a feature back already and let him work his way back as a true #2 RB getting Tatum Bell type # of carries in the run game and then a couple screens per game where he shows he could one day make it in the NFL.

I would love to see us either get something for the douche, something like a low round pick or a similar player from another team that is struggling maybe a LB for depth and move 2 busts to try to give them both new life like Shanny tried to do back in the day with Nash and Avery. The ideal situation would be if KM actually showed up ready to play this year and gave us stats that a should #3 or #4 RB should, maybe 500-700 yards rushing and some 400-500 yards in the passing game.

He needs to have more TD's than he did last year if he wants to stick around anywhere. What a bus......t

lonestar
08-30-2012, 04:23 AM
Now if he wold have drafted by tanahan many would be all over his sack.. Telling the world he would be the best back in the NFL had he not been hurt.

Love the hypocrisy of this site..

fontaine
08-30-2012, 04:45 AM
Now if he wold have drafted by tanahan many would be all over his sack.. Telling the world he would be the best back in the NFL had he not been hurt.

Love the hypocrisy of this site..

You mean like Tatum Bell?

Idiot.

Beantown Bronco
08-30-2012, 05:17 AM
He needs to have more TD's than he did last year if he wants to stick around anywhere. What a bus......t

He had 17 TDs his first two years in the league. I think it's safe to say that he knows how to find the EZ.

Are you really judging him by the one year he was hurt basically the whole time? He had less than 50 total "touches" of the football all last year and got a TD. That would translate to 8 or so over the course of a full year with an average workload. There's nothing wrong with that.

Drek
08-30-2012, 07:26 AM
I highly doubt that even at this stage in their careers.

Brandon Stokley ran a 4.54 when he came out of college. Knowshon Moreno ran a 4.55. They were the same damn speed coming out of college and Stokley is over a decade older.

Hell, Moreno ran a faster 40 yard dash time than Brandon Marshall. People didn't bitch about him being slow. Moreno's speed issues are born from hesitancy and wasted lateral movement. It is now being further hindered by his quick return from his ACL tear.

Despite that he's still faster than Ball right now, and will only widen that gap as he gets fully healthy again.

This team has never actually given Moreno a real shot as a 10 carry a game #2 back. We'd be foolish to boot him out the door when the entire sample size we're evaluating him by was two seasons in the worst rushing offense in the league where he was asked to pound the rock between the tackles carry after carry.

Drek
08-30-2012, 07:29 AM
I think it would be best for KM to go to a new team and get a fresh start, maybe not the Lions because they need a good RB who can carry the team until their other RB's heal up for the 1st half of the year. He should go to a team that has a feature back already and let him work his way back as a true #2 RB getting Tatum Bell type # of carries in the run game and then a couple screens per game where he shows he could one day make it in the NFL.

The Lions don't run the ball very much even when they had Jahvid Best healthy to start last season. They want a 10-15 carries, 5-10 catches type for their #1 RB. Moreno would be a great fit for that and already has a comfort level with Stafford.

You want to hear people around the OM bitch about Moreno? Let him go to the Lions for basically nothing and watch him actually become a productive back in a better system for him than what we've ran the last three years. Just so happens that system is very similar to the one we're going to be running this year.

That'll make the haters happy.

ZONA
08-30-2012, 07:56 AM
I still like JJ better then Moreno. That swing pass screen to him last week, you saw that burst and in a flash he was 20 yards up the field. I know there was a holding call but not his fault. We need some guys who have that speed to make big plays. We don't have that with McGahee, although he does quite well without it, Ball or Moreno. Hillman has been injured. You have to keep JJ on this team for his "take it to the house" potential.

DENVERDUI55
08-30-2012, 08:00 AM
You better look out now, you just made to much sense. You might get a REP like this.
"Quit being a whiney Vagina and face the facts that Moreno isnt very good. He was a reach abd has failed to produce. You should actually talk football or quit being a vagina and use the ignore." Yours truly DENVERDUI55

My point exactly your still whining despite the fact that you hit me up first.

2KBack
08-30-2012, 08:03 AM
I still like JJ better then Moreno. That swing pass screen to him last week, you saw that burst and in a flash he was 20 yards up the field. I know there was a holding call but not his fault. We need some guys who have that speed to make big plays. We don't have that with McGahee, although he does quite well without it, Ball or Moreno. Hillman has been injured. You have to keep JJ on this team for his "take it to the house" potential.

3 seasons, and he hasn't "Taken it to the house" in his career. Didn't "take it to the house" in preseason. Eventually won't he have to "take it to the house?"

LRtagger
08-30-2012, 08:52 AM
3 seasons, and he hasn't "Taken it to the house" in his career. Didn't "take it to the house" in preseason. Eventually won't he have to "take it to the house?"

He'll be packing his bags and taking them to the house this weekend.

DENVERDUI55
08-30-2012, 08:58 AM
Brandon Stokley ran a 4.54 when he came out of college. Knowshon Moreno ran a 4.55. They were the same damn speed coming out of college and Stokley is over a decade older.

Hell, Moreno ran a faster 40 yard dash time than Brandon Marshall. People didn't b**** about him being slow. Moreno's speed issues are born from hesitancy and wasted lateral movement.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=61128&draftyear=1999&genpos=WR
http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Brandon&l=Stokley&i=5242

Looks like 4.49 to me.

Slowshon 4.62 Look at his negatives. Wow they are still the same just like celebrating in a huge blowout loss.

Negatives: Questionable top-end speed. Lacks the prototype size and bulk some teams are looking for in a bell-cow runner. A bit flashy, and will celebrate a bit too much after big plays.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/knowshon-moreno?id=79619
http://www.knowshonzone.com/2009/03/

Rabb
08-30-2012, 09:00 AM
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=61128&draftyear=1999&genpos=WR
http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Brandon&l=Stokley&i=5242

Looks like 4.49 to me.

Slowshon 4.62 Look at his negatives. Wow they are still the same just like celebrating in a huge blowout loss.

Negatives: Questionable top-end speed. Lacks the prototype size and bulk some teams are looking for in a bell-cow runner. A bit flashy, and will celebrate a bit too much after big plays.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/knowshon-moreno?id=79619
http://www.knowshonzone.com/2009/03/

you won't convince anyone that is pro KM

even if we keep him and he has a ****ty season, there will be a reason (playing time, not being used like he should, injury, OL, etc.) and this discussion will rinse/repeat

DENVERDUI55
08-30-2012, 09:04 AM
you won't convince anyone that is pro KM

even if we keep him and he has a ****ty season, there will be a reason (playing time, not being used like he should, injury, OL, etc.) and this discussion will rinse/repeat

Larry (Pasco, WA): What NFL RB is your playing style most like?

Knowshon Moreno: I like watching LT. I like the way that Adrian Peterson runs…probably a combination of both. Maybe a Walter Payton type–he was a great back. I just love the way those guys run the ball.

They should cut him for those comments there. They should of fired MCD for wasting the 12th pick on this guy. I'm sure he interviewed awesome.

Requiem
08-30-2012, 09:21 AM
you won't convince anyone that is pro KM

even if we keep him and he has a ****ty season, there will be a reason (playing time, not being used like he should, injury, OL, etc.) and this discussion will rinse/repeat

Moreno's best hand time was 4.55 and lowest 4.64. He never had get away speed and nobody ever claimed that.

OL inconsistency and scheme usage were all factors his first two years as to why his performance was not as good as it could have been. Additionally, his tendency to dance in the backfield and lack of vision also contributed to porous play. I've been a Knowshon fan forever, but am a realist and can acknowledge his short-comings as a prospect and player, but have also seen other variables on the field that impact his performance.

At the end of the day, he is probably gone after this season. I don't see us paying him ~ 3 million or so he is due next season. If Denver doesn't grab a back in free agency, I would be interested in them drafting a guy like Montee Ball or Eddie Lacy in rounds 2 or 3. I don't think Giovanni Bernard will come out, but he would be FANTASTIC in this offense.

lonestar
08-30-2012, 01:28 PM
I still like JJ better then Moreno. That swing pass screen to him last week, you saw that burst and in a flash he was 20 yards up the field. I know there was a holding call but not his fault. We need some guys who have that speed to make big plays. We don't have that with McGahee, although he does quite well without it, Ball or Moreno. Hillman has been injured. You have to keep JJ on this team for his "take it to the house" potential.

Take it to the house is more about blocking than his speed..

TD was hardly a speed demon but took it to the house loads of time because he was not touched until shaking off a LB or Fs that had a block that was not devastating..

speed is great but without the blocking NADA happens nor being able to read blocks.

razorwire77
08-30-2012, 02:01 PM
TD had meh timed speed, but above average game speed (like Jerry Rice.)

Moreno has meh timed speed and blah game speed.

lonestar
08-30-2012, 02:16 PM
TD had meh timed speed, but above average game speed (like Jerry Rice.)

Moreno has meh timed speed and blah game speed.

Get used to him for at let another year.. Unless they IR him.

razorwire77
08-30-2012, 02:21 PM
Like I said earlier, due his relatively low salary and overall crappy depth at the position he probably makes the roster by default. Although some of that might depend on tonight. If Hillman looks healthy and goes ape**** against the scrubs, they might decide to try to deal Sauced for a low round draft pick or cut him outright.

broncosteven
08-30-2012, 02:27 PM
The Lions don't run the ball very much even when they had Jahvid Best healthy to start last season. They want a 10-15 carries, 5-10 catches type for their #1 RB. Moreno would be a great fit for that and already has a comfort level with Stafford.

You want to hear people around the OM b**** about Moreno? Let him go to the Lions for basically nothing and watch him actually become a productive back in a better system for him than what we've ran the last three years. Just so happens that system is very similar to the one we're going to be running this year.

That'll make the haters happy.

At this point I don't think he will ever be productive for us. His stats have declined since he entered the league he keeps getting hurt and he keeps dancing in the back field. As 3rd on the depth chart I don't see him getting enough carries to warrant keeping around especially if we can find someone willing to give up a future draft pick.

At this point in KM's career he will just be keeping a guy like Hillman off the field and wasting space on the team bus/plane/exercycles.

Bacchus
08-30-2012, 02:48 PM
At this point I don't think he will ever be productive for us. His stats have declined since he entered the league he keeps getting hurt and he keeps dancing in the back field. As 3rd on the depth chart I don't see him getting enough carries to warrant keeping around especially if we can find someone willing to give up a future draft pick.

At this point in KM's career he will just be keeping a guy like Hillman off the field and wasting space on the team bus/plane/exercycles.

Moreno could be a fine back-up RB. But who cares really? He is due $5 million next year and so the Broncos will have to cut himafter the season anyway.

Nwp-Apap
08-30-2012, 02:57 PM
At this point I don't think he will ever be productive for us. His stats have declined since he entered the league he keeps getting hurt and he keeps dancing in the back field. As 3rd on the depth chart I don't see him getting enough carries to warrant keeping around especially if we can find someone willing to give up a future draft pick.

At this point in KM's career he will just be keeping a guy like Hillman off the field and wasting space on the team bus/plane/exercycles.

His yards per carry have gone up over the years. His yards per touch and TDs per touch are fantastic. Production is not the issue, it is his bad luck with injuries.

jerseyboiler120
08-30-2012, 02:59 PM
Keep him one more year. Not much downside for the team. If he's ever gonna be worth anything, he'll have to prove it to the league this year. He's backed in a corner, if he has any fight in him we'll see it this season.

2KBack
08-30-2012, 06:56 PM
Moreno could be a fine back-up RB. But who cares really? He is due $5 million next year and so the Broncos will have to cut himafter the season anyway.

Where do you get your numbers? Moreno is making less than 900,000 this season and 1.7 million next season. His cap hit is 3.5, but I'm pretty sure it only saves 1.7 to get rid of him. Not exactly #1 RB money anyway.

maven
08-30-2012, 06:59 PM
I'd like to see him get another shot. You can't tell me Ball/JJ are supremely better. And for that low salary, I'd like to see if he can do anything.

Bacchus
08-30-2012, 07:23 PM
Where do you get your numbers? Moreno is making less than 900,000 this season and 1.7 million next season. His cap hit is 3.5, but I'm pretty sure it only saves 1.7 to get rid of him. Not exactly #1 RB money anyway.

I tried to find it and could not so maybe I added the two together or something. My bad if it is wrong.

broncosteven
08-30-2012, 07:30 PM
His yards per carry have gone up over the years. His yards per touch and TDs per touch are fantastic. Production is not the issue, it is his bad luck with injuries.

Are you KM or related to him?

LOL

His production has gone down every year.

Personally I would love to be wrong about this guy, he seems to have some great playmaking ability in the passing game but watching him dance in the backfield and get caught by D linemen all the time is old.

I hope he can contribute this year and take us into the playoffs, if not we can see what Hillman can do.

errand
08-30-2012, 07:51 PM
He'll be packing his bags and taking them to the house this weekend.


Ok, that was funny...I don't care who you are.:rofl:

RaiderH8r
08-30-2012, 07:55 PM
TD had meh timed speed, but above average game speed (like Jerry Rice.)

Moreno has meh timed speed and blah game speed.

Moreno runs as fast as a man hauling a refrigerator. It's like he has two gears but he dances well.

2KBack
08-30-2012, 07:59 PM
I tried to find it and could not so maybe I added the two together or something. My bad if it is wrong.

I'm not even sure you are...I've just seen like 4 different salaries for him

errand
08-30-2012, 08:57 PM
Moreno 5 carries for 30 yards with a longest of 10 vs. Cardinals


on edit...Elway says that not playing special teams is not an issue when deciding Knowshon's ability to make the roster. And said he's had a great camp...

teknic
08-30-2012, 09:01 PM
Moreno 5 carries for 30 yards with a longest of 10 vs. Cardinals

He's playing well and fighting hard for yards. He deserves to make the team over a scrub like Ball.

montrose
08-30-2012, 09:19 PM
I have never seen such an oddly adverse reaction to a player before, that really doesn't deserve it. I'm starting to think many Bronco fans are conditioned by the Shanny years, and expect no names to bust out 1300 yard seasons. So when we finally got a top college RB in the fold we expected dominance. That time is so doneski, McD saw to that. We had a CFL position coach brought in to coach the Oline....read that again....we went to Canada to get our oline coach. We eliminated the zone scheme, we started a QB whose biggest weakness was stretching the field, started 2 questionable rookies on the interior of the line and Moreno got pounded in the back field for it. We are finally getting the running game going the right direction, and we want to ship this guy out (or worse, just cut him).

It doesn't make sense

Great post.

DENVERDUI55
08-30-2012, 09:28 PM
I love th Moreno stop and stiff ARM move.

broncosteven
08-30-2012, 09:35 PM
He's playing well and fighting hard for yards. He deserves to make the team over a scrub like Ball.

He is getting good tape today.

Hopefully it will lead to us getting a draft pick higher than a 7th from Detroit this week, if not he can send tonights game tape around to teams after he gets cut.

DBroncos4life
08-30-2012, 09:48 PM
He is getting good tape today.

Hopefully it will lead to us getting a draft pick higher than a 7th from Detroit this week, if not he can send tonights game tape around to teams after he gets cut.

If we trade him and keep FumBall we deserve to struggle running the ball without McGahee.

errand
08-30-2012, 10:18 PM
really, JC..... McGhee is a starter. Almost all of the starters DON'T play ST. All the guys that are not starters must play ST per JOHN Friggin Elway.

When asked about if Knowshon not playing special teams would mean anything about whether or not he makes the team, John friggin Elway said "No...."

Drek
08-31-2012, 03:06 AM
He is getting good tape today.

Hopefully it will lead to us getting a draft pick higher than a 7th from Detroit this week, if not he can send tonights game tape around to teams after he gets cut.

So you think Lance Ball is a better player than Moreno?

LongDongJohnson
08-31-2012, 03:53 AM
Lance ball is the most average player ive ever seen. Id rather keep jj over ball.

WolfpackGuy
08-31-2012, 05:46 AM
Maybe they should switch in the backup blockers when Moreno comes in.

That combination did look decent for a few runs against the Cards first string defense.

TheChamp24
08-31-2012, 05:57 AM
Moreno should make the team, Ball should get cut but....we'll see.

Keeping McGahee, Hillman and Moreno would be a very solid running game plus capable receivers out of the backfield.

Drek
08-31-2012, 05:57 AM
Lance ball is the most average player ive ever seen. Id rather keep jj over ball.

I'd agree. JJ has some burst when he sees open field. Ball is slow, he's got no wiggle to him at all, and he's a fumbler. I don't care if he runs nice routes. Moreno runs nice routes and he can actually catch and do something after he's got the ball.

If we cut Lance Ball he's available any day we feel like bringing him back. He's Chad Mustard minus those few plays when Mustard earned his paycheck.

mwill07
08-31-2012, 06:08 AM
IMO, Moreno showed more last night than he has the entire last two years. I came away very impressed. He was playing with a different sense of urgency - a different tempo. He was playing angry.

I'm a little pissed off that we haven't seen that Moreno the last couple of seasons. I mean, i'm glad he's capable of playing like that, but a little disappointed he had to be on the roster bubble for the light to finally come on.

Drek
08-31-2012, 06:45 AM
IMO, Moreno showed more last night than he has the entire last two years. I came away very impressed. He was playing with a different sense of urgency - a different tempo. He was playing angry.

I'm a little pissed off that we haven't seen that Moreno the last couple of seasons. I mean, i'm glad he's capable of playing like that, but a little disappointed he had to be on the roster bubble for the light to finally come on.

Thing is, has it been the roster bubble or finally finding the right role for himself that caused the light to come on?

For starters, even the most ardent McDaniels apologist wouldn't argue that he was a HORRIBLE motivator.

Second, he tried to use Moreno as a pound the rock between the tackles type. Is there any question that being used like that is the absolute worst role for him?

Third, he's had nagging injuries the last two years, including missing much of last season, which could have been his first chance to see a role more conducive to his natural abilities.

The questions about his toughness and ability/willingness to play when not 100% are the real sticking points. He's apparently trying to step up to the plate in that regard this pre-season, rushing back from his ACL.

mwill07
08-31-2012, 07:11 AM
Thing is, has it been the roster bubble or finally finding the right role for himself that caused the light to come on?

For starters, even the most ardent McDaniels apologist wouldn't argue that he was a HORRIBLE motivator.

Second, he tried to use Moreno as a pound the rock between the tackles type. Is there any question that being used like that is the absolute worst role for him?

Third, he's had nagging injuries the last two years, including missing much of last season, which could have been his first chance to see a role more conducive to his natural abilities.

The questions about his toughness and ability/willingness to play when not 100% are the real sticking points. He's apparently trying to step up to the plate in that regard this pre-season, rushing back from his ACL.

I don't think so. He just seemed to me to be on a different level last night, and it really didn't have any thing to do with how he was used or injuries. I'm not talking about production, I suppose I'm talking more about attitude/passion/whatever you want to call it.

Dedhed
08-31-2012, 07:22 AM
I'd agree. JJ has some burst when he sees open field. Ball is slow, he's got no wiggle to him at all, and he's a fumbler. I don't care if he runs nice routes. Moreno runs nice routes and he can actually catch and do something after he's got the ball.

If we cut Lance Ball he's available any day we feel like bringing him back. He's Chad Mustard minus those few plays when Mustard earned his paycheck.

I agree completely. Moreno has clearly made the team and outplayed Ball by a long shot to establish himself as the #3 RB at the very least.

Keeping JJ, who has more upside by far than Ball, would make sense to me. I think the question with JJ is pass blocking.

Dedhed
08-31-2012, 07:25 AM
I don't think so. He just seemed to me to be on a different level last night, and it really didn't have any thing to do with how he was used or injuries. I'm not talking about production, I suppose I'm talking more about attitude/passion/whatever you want to call it.
I agree with this completely. He looked much more like the RB he was at Georgia. Running hard, fighting for every inch. It's not the production that's been impressive the last few weeks, but the sense of urgency and the desire he's demonstrated.

dictionary
08-31-2012, 07:39 AM
I agree with this completely. He looked much more like the RB he was at Georgia. Running hard, fighting for every inch. It's not the production that's been impressive the last few weeks, but the sense of urgency and the desire he's demonstrated.

Moreno is at the end of his rookie contract, yes? Isnt there some stat about how guys perform amazingly well in a contract negotiation year? I wouldnt mind seeing to 1k backs this year ;)

2KBack
08-31-2012, 07:44 AM
Moreno is at the end of his rookie contract, yes? Isnt there some stat about how guys perform amazingly well in a contract negotiation year? I wouldnt mind seeing to 1k backs this year ;)

close, he is under contract for 2013 and there is a team option for another year after that

Dedhed
08-31-2012, 07:49 AM
Moreno is at the end of his rookie contract, yes? Isnt there some stat about how guys perform amazingly well in a contract negotiation year? I wouldnt mind seeing to 1k backs this year ;)

This isn't a contract year for Moreno.

rideco
08-31-2012, 09:07 AM
I think he either a. makes the team or b. gets traded to some desperate team like Detroit. I doubt they cut him and with his hard running the last couple of games, history of injury at RB position, and relative low salary I think he stays.

ozomulsion
08-31-2012, 09:20 AM
I agree with this completely. He looked much more like the RB he was at Georgia. Running hard, fighting for every inch. It's not the production that's been impressive the last few weeks, but the sense of urgency and the desire he's demonstrated.

He's running like Willis McGahee. He's the only back we have that can run like Willis and be productive. Imagine Lance Ball trying to run with a mean streak. Now that would be funny.

jerseyboiler120
08-31-2012, 09:22 AM
Last night showed he's gonna try his tail off this season. No reason to trade him when he's fighting for his NFL future.

Inkana7
08-31-2012, 09:33 AM
He should absolutely make the team. As a 12th overall pick, he's without a doubt been a disappointment, but at this point in his career, we really need to look past that and ask "does he have talent/value that can help this team win?" And the answer to that question is a resounding yes.

From the situation that he was thrust into in McDaniels' ****ty run scheme, to injuries to whatever, he's produced pretty well for us, and hopefully now he'll be utilized in a way that best maximizes his talents. He has athletic limitations and has had trouble staying healthy, but in certain aspects, he is a very uniquely talented back, and hopefully we'll get to see that used to its fullest this year with Manning behind center and a workhorse back in McGahee in front of him.

On another note, he looks a hell of a lot bigger this year. Did I read somewhere that he was up to like 215-220?

2KBack
08-31-2012, 09:35 AM
He should absolutely make the team. As a 12th overall pick, he's without a doubt been a disappointment, but at this point in his career, we really need to look past that and ask "does he have talent/value that can help this team win?" And the answer to that question is a resounding yes.

From the situation that he was thrust into in McDaniels' ****ty run scheme, to injuries to whatever, he's produced pretty well for us, and hopefully now he'll be utilized in a way that best maximizes his talents. He has athletic limitations and has had trouble staying healthy, but in certain aspects, he is a very uniquely talented back, and hopefully we'll get to see that used to its fullest this year with Manning behind center and a workhorse back in McGahee in front of him.

On another note, he looks a hell of a lot bigger this year. Did I read somewhere that he was up to like 215-220?

Elway said that when he was in the booth, that he bulked up in an effort to take the pounding better.

Inkana7
08-31-2012, 09:37 AM
Elway said that when he was in the booth, that he bulked up in an effort to take the pounding better.

Awesome. I had to suffer through the Cards' broadcast, so I didn't get to hear Elway.

DENVERDUI55
08-31-2012, 09:42 AM
Moreno was sure trying hard last night and looked decent. I couldn't help chuckling on sweep plays on how hard he pumps his arms and legs yet isn't very fast then celebrates after a 10 yd game. I think he made the team last night though.

2KBack
08-31-2012, 10:25 AM
Here are the final preseason stats (understandably taken with a grain of Salt)
Moreno: 18 for 84 4.7ypc
Johnson: 17 for 63 3.7ypc
Hillman: 24 for 97 4.0ypc
Mcgahee: 19 for 71 3.7ypc

and Ball: 11 for 25 2.3ypc

Lolad
08-31-2012, 11:09 AM
Roll with McGahee, Hillman, Gronkoswki, and Moreno cut the rest.

If Elways wasn't lying about there not being a plan B. Cut Hanie and save us an extra spot on the roster

LRtagger
08-31-2012, 11:14 AM
Ball can GTFO

Agamemnon
08-31-2012, 11:23 AM
Here are the final preseason stats (understandably taken with a grain of Salt)
Moreno: 18 for 84 4.7ypc
Johnson: 17 for 63 3.7ypc
Hillman: 24 for 97 4.0ypc
Mcgahee: 19 for 71 3.7ypc

and Ball: 11 for 25 2.3ypc

Sounds about right. I'd take any of the top four over Ball. I really don't get why the coaching staff likes that guy.

TomServo
09-02-2012, 02:29 AM
Ive gotten over how this turd got picked 12th overall. Ive never got over his dancing in the endzone in the Worst home loss in bronco history. to the raiders! and he tried to do it again in the same game!
F you KM.

Drek
09-02-2012, 06:16 AM
Ive gotten over how this turd got picked 12th overall. Ive never got over his dancing in the endzone in the Worst home loss in bronco history. to the raiders! and he tried to do it again in the same game!
F you KM.

You're an idiot. Moreno was one of the only players on the entire team who didn't just roll over and take it that day. He can dance all he wants as long as he keeps giving effort, which is more than you could say for 40+ of his teammates at the time.

Broncomutt
09-02-2012, 02:48 PM
Ive gotten over how this turd got picked 12th overall. Ive never got over his dancing in the endzone in the Worst home loss in bronco history. to the raiders! and he tried to do it again in the same game!
F you KM.

I remember that. Unfortunately, I remember that.

???

fontaine
09-02-2012, 03:45 PM
I can't wait for the season to start. A 6 page thread for a bit part player/backup rb whos replacement was already drafted this year.
Thank sweet baby Jesus for Manning. At least we'll have real football to talk about once the season starts.

Agamemnon
09-02-2012, 05:44 PM
I can't wait for the season to start. A 6 page thread for a bit part player/backup rb whos replacement was already drafted this year.
Thank sweet baby Jesus for Manning. At least we'll have real football to talk about once the season starts.

Well we could talk about his "replacement" but that guy is presently our #4 back, so...

Nwp-Apap
09-02-2012, 06:24 PM
Ive gotten over how this turd got picked 12th overall. Ive never got over his dancing in the endzone in the Worst home loss in bronco history. to the raiders! and he tried to do it again in the same game!
F you KM.

What? That's one of the best qualities in a football player. Do you want players to give up and stop caring when they make a p,ay if we're losing? No. You want them to celebrate and you want them to always play their hardest. Something Moreno has always done for us, which is more than you can say for 75% of the team over the last 5 years.

DENVERDUI55
09-02-2012, 06:42 PM
What? That's one of the best qualities in a football player. Do you want players to give up and stop caring when they make a p,ay if we're losing? No. You want them to celebrate and you want them to always play their hardest. Something Moreno has always done for us, which is more than you can say for 75% of the team over the last 5 years.

I love my players to celebrate after a ordinary gain or in the middle of being blown out at home by our hated rival.

DBroncos4life
09-02-2012, 07:01 PM
I love my players to celebrate after a ordinary gain or in the middle of being blown out at home by our hated rival.

I rather have that then lifeless turds with no emotion at all.

broncosteven
09-02-2012, 07:02 PM
Well we could talk about his "replacement" but that guy is presently our #4 back, so...

Considering KM is our #3 back the battle is much more closer than you think.

FantomForce
09-02-2012, 07:06 PM
Please I've been calling for this to happen for 2 years now CUT HIM!!!!

Bob's your Information Minister
09-02-2012, 07:17 PM
I'm really glad that the Mane has adopted the nickname I created for this guy.

"Slowshon" :~ohyah!:

broncosteven
09-02-2012, 07:25 PM
I'm really glad that the Mane has adopted the nickname I created for this guy.

"Slowshon" :~ohyah!:

You just want us to cut him so KFC can pick him up and have a 4 headed monster at RB.

montrose
09-09-2012, 05:32 AM
Time for my annual Knowshon apologist post, it will probably be irrelevant in 2 weeks, lol. When all is said and done I understand how underwhelming he's been to many... I get it. I would just say that I'm very interested to see how this year plays out for him, he's only 25 and finally in an offense that plays to his strengths, more on that in a bit.

First lets take a look at why he's a "bust". Shanny's system had guys with much lesser college resumes ripping off big rushing seasons so the expectations for a guy who was a CONSENSUS mid-1st round pick were great to begin with.

Far and away, the biggest fault we can hit Knowshon with is his durability and I agree with critics that's a legitimate strength/weakness of a RB to critique. In 2009, he tore his MCL during camp and likely rushed back never letting it fully heal his rookie season. In 2010, he pulled a hammy the 1st day of camp and just by the time he was getting going he banged up his ribs. Then in 2011, he hurt the hammy again in the opener and just a few weeks after returning the ACL tore. Unacceptable, unfair, but unacceptable.

While injuries are the main source we can point to on why he's been a disappointment, and rightfully so, they're also a reason for optimism. Why? It's possible the injuries came at an increased rate from being used so much outside of his skill set.

What Knowshon is good at- catching the ball, running on the edges, making guys miss in space and he's a borderline-punishing blocker. If he's used more in that role instead of pounding between the tackles, it's possible he stays healthier. He's not a bell cow in the traditional sense of what you'd expect from the #12 pick, but considering the evolution of the NFL game you can argue he's a good fit for many of these pass-heavy offenses, like Joe Addai. In fact, there was a list here on the Mane a few days ago of the few lead backs left in the league and they were nearly all dealing with injuries. Despite all knowing this, he's never been really used much a this type of player.

In 2009 and 2010, for some reason Josh rarely used him in the roles he described at draft time after selecting him. Compounding matters, there were OL issues that effected all the backs- specifically in 2010 when Buck, Maroney and Ball all struggled to make positive yardage. In addition to going away from the zone blocking scheme, they had a QB with no threat for the defense to respect on the backside allowing defenders to crash down on the back side. That same QB was inconsistent stretching the field until late in games when the team was being blown out, so plenty of defenders were near the line of scrimmage. In 2011, the team never really got going running the ball until Tim came in and they went to the option offense. Despite all this, and considering all this, the numbers aren't that bad...

His career YPC is 4.1 and that's gone up each year. It was 4.3 in 2010 which behind that group is like a 5.0 on any other team. By comparison- Buck had 2.5, Ball 3.9 (and he played with Tim at the end of the year) and Maroney 2.1. In those first two years he scored 17 TDs in 19 games. And for the fumble complaints, he's fumbled 8 times in 542 career touches, that's 1.5% - half of which came his rookie year. So even at the stuff he sucks at... the numbers say he doesn't suck.

Again, I get it. I see the slipping, the poor conditioning earlier in his career, the dancing (which looks worse to Broncos fans coming from Bobby Turner's great one cut and go coaching before), etc. But he really hasn't been THAT bad, and it's possible that now in this offense he could truly succeed. And if it makes you feel better, take a look back at the 2009 1st round and compare him to others.