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BossBruce
08-27-2012, 09:06 AM
Didn't look like the back he was in college. We got glimpses of the speed but the the instincts and cutting ability was not on display. Could be the hammy. I hope it was the hammy.

Curious what everyone else saw...

Tombstone RJ
08-27-2012, 09:07 AM
thought he looked pretty good all things considered...

Chris
08-27-2012, 09:10 AM
I saw that I didn't see enough.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-27-2012, 09:12 AM
Also saw it was his first ever game in the nfl.

Requiem
08-27-2012, 09:14 AM
Pretty pedestrian if you ask me, though he is only 20 years old. He has a great skill-set , and he will be a good replacement for Knowshon whenever he is off the team (I assume even if he makes it this year, that he won't be on our team by the start of next season.) Hamstring is probably an issue. What was it, 10 carries for 30 yards with one of them being for 14? So, 9 carries for 16 yards? Not going to cut it, but can't really dog on him yet.

Rabb
08-27-2012, 09:15 AM
don't ever change OM

TheReverend
08-27-2012, 09:17 AM
It's a MUCH faster game. There's a good chance he's never going to look as fast as he did in college.

He played well and looking forward to what he can bring situationally.

Requiem
08-27-2012, 09:21 AM
It's a MUCH faster game. There's a good chance he's never going to look as fast as he did in college.

He played well and looking forward to what he can bring situationally.

If having 10 carries for 29 yards is playing well. . . we have nowhere to go but up. :~ohyah!:

BossBruce
08-27-2012, 09:21 AM
I'm not saying the verdict is in by any stretch. But I do believe we don't need a huge sample size to judge a running back in the NFL.

I'll give an example...there was a zone stretch play to the right where there were a few cut back lanes to exploit. Hilllman basically ran laterally and took it towards the sidelines. I thought that was the type of play he would have cut more aggressively on taken advantage of his ability to make defenders miss.

I'm definitely not hating on the guy this early. With 10 carries, I was expecting a little more 'flash'.

Just an early observation. Looking forward to seeing him a bunch next game.

2KBack
08-27-2012, 09:22 AM
49ers are one of the deeper teams in the league, and a great defensive team. Denver's depth is not so great at the moment. One the 1st team was out, there was no manning to keep the D honest and the Line is less than stellar. All the backs and the QB's had an uphill battle. For the circumstances her looked pretty good. He will look even better with the #1's

People really tend to forget how far the talent level drops after the 1st or even second string guys. Losing 1 good player on an oline can have a dramatic effect....now imagine a dramatic talent drop on all 5 at once.

Ronnie Tsunami
08-27-2012, 09:23 AM
I remember reading somewhere that Hillman was a bit unsure if he'd be able to "hit the 5th gear."

He said that he should have been able to, but that he'd have to wait and see. Either way, he wasn't 100%. I just hope he wasn't anything above 90%.

TheReverend
08-27-2012, 09:23 AM
If having 10 carries for 29 yards is playing well. . . we have nowhere to go but up. :~ohyah!:

10 carries for 2.9 yards would be playing well with that OL.

swaiy
08-27-2012, 09:26 AM
49ers are one of the deeper teams in the league, and a great defensive team. Denver's depth is not so great at the moment. One the 1st team was out, there was no manning to keep the D honest and the Line is less than stellar. All the backs and the QB's had an uphill battle. For the circumstances her looked pretty good. He will look even better with the #1's

People really tend to forget how far the talent level drops after the 1st or even second string guys. Losing 1 good player on an oline can have a dramatic effect....now imagine a dramatic talent drop on all 5 at once.

Please stop with the logic. He didn't run for 100 yards or look up to NFL speed in his first preseason game ever so he must be a bust. Hilarious!

Requiem
08-27-2012, 09:26 AM
10 carries for 2.9 yards would be playing well with that OL.

I could have chugged out 2.5 YPC.

2KBack
08-27-2012, 09:28 AM
10 carries for 2.9 yards would be playing well with that OL.

They did no favors to some of our better young guys trying to get reps. That 4th down pitch that J.Johnson tried to reverse was just silly. We ran the same play after showing our hand when SF called timeout. We didn't have the talent to man up on them, and they just attacked all second half.

BossBruce
08-27-2012, 09:30 AM
Please stop with the logic. He didn't run for 100 yards or look up to NFL speed in his first preseason game ever so he must be a bust. Hilarious!


I don't believe anyone called him a bust. Just making observations from the 10 carries we saw. 10 carries isn't enough to predict he's a hall of famer or not but it's enough to talk about how he ran on those 10 carries.

I didn't see the cutting ability that made him a beast in college. Could have been the poorous o-line. Could have been the hammy. Who knows? It was what it was though.

Steve Sewell
08-27-2012, 09:35 AM
He wasn't at a Pro Bowl level. I say cut him.

Archer81
08-27-2012, 09:35 AM
Not every Broncos running back gets to level a kick returner in Tokyo...

Just sayin...


:Broncos:

Kaylore
08-27-2012, 09:35 AM
I thought he looked good for a rookie with a crap line in his first game with a bad hammy. But maybe declaring him a bust is the prudent thing to do...

BossBruce
08-27-2012, 09:42 AM
I thought he looked good for a rookie with a crap line in his first game with a bad hammy. But maybe declaring him a bust is the prudent thing to do...

Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why assume an honest critique is a bust proclamation?

And how exactly does one "look good for a rookie with a crap o-line and a bad hammy'? How do you measure that?

Requiem
08-27-2012, 09:45 AM
People have moveable standards. Advocates of Hillman looking good in his first pre-season action with pedestrian numbers were, and will continue to crap on Knowshon's first two years in the league, despite having to play for a dogpiss OL. Fun stuff.

Rabb
08-27-2012, 09:45 AM
Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why assume an honest critique is a bust proclamation?

And how exactly does one "look good for a rookie with a crap o-line and a bad hammy'? How do you measure that?

Tebow doesn't look the same as he did in college either.

See how stupid that sounds?

Que
08-27-2012, 09:49 AM
This thread is classic. Major props.

ozomulsion
08-27-2012, 09:49 AM
Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why assume an honest critique is a bust proclamation?

And how exactly does one "look good for a rookie with a crap o-line and a bad hammy'? How do you measure that?

Bust

BossBruce
08-27-2012, 09:51 AM
Tebow doesn't look the same as he did in college either.

See how stupid that sounds?

Apples and oranges...

I'm comparing running styles. Adrian Peterson has the same running style now as he had in college and probably his whole life. Running back is the easiest position to judge because it's very instinctive. You either have it or you don't. This is not me talking - I hear this all the time from league personnel.

Stylistically, I did not see the cuts/jukes/make people miss that Hillman displayed in his college tape. Like I said, it could have been the hammy or any number of things.

Now...do you see how stupid you sound?

Steve Sewell
08-27-2012, 09:56 AM
Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why assume an honest critique is a bust proclamation?

And how exactly does one "look good for a rookie with a crap o-line and a bad hammy'? How do you measure that?

There are so many great football talent evaluators on this board that generally a negative/questionable review is all that is needed to determine the future of a prospect, even with limited evidence or film.

For instance, we knew that JD Walton was a bust when McD brought a rookie free agent into camp a few years ago.

Rabb
08-27-2012, 09:57 AM
I hear this all the time from league personnel.


Now...do you see how stupid you sound?

:rofl:

swaiy
08-27-2012, 09:58 AM
This is what I saw:

I saw a guy that just got his first taste of the actual game speed in the NFL. You can practice all you want but game speed is completely different. You could tell he was trying to use his speed as he did in college. In the NFL, it's incredibly hard to outrun everybody to the sideline and turn the corner. Sometimes you can't make anything happen. You just have to turn your shoulders upfield and grab what you can when you have nowhere to go.

I liked how he eventually made one cut and turned upfield. Dude is small but it appears he isn't afraid to run behind his pads and get hit. I think once his vision develops a little more and he adjusts to the speed, he can be good.

footstepsfrom#27
08-27-2012, 10:01 AM
I'm not saying the verdict is in by any stretch. But I do believe we don't need a huge sample size to judge a running back in the NFL.

I'll give an example...there was a zone stretch play to the right where there were a few cut back lanes to exploit. Hilllman basically ran laterally and took it towards the sidelines. I thought that was the type of play he would have cut more aggressively on taken advantage of his ability to make defenders miss.

I'm definitely not hating on the guy this early. With 10 carries, I was expecting a little more 'flash'.

Just an early observation. Looking forward to seeing him a bunch next game.
WAY to early to even speculate about this. This dude's 20...he ought to be a junior in college and this was his first game. If he just shows up he's already ahead of Knowshow. I think he's gonne be a good one though.

BossBruce
08-27-2012, 10:08 AM
:rofl:

"league personnel" do TV and radio shows genius.

razorwire77
08-27-2012, 10:08 AM
Didn't look like the back he was in college. We got glimpses of the speed but the the instincts and cutting ability was not on display. Could be the hammy. I hope it was the hammy.

Curious what everyone else saw...

For a 20-year-old kid, coming off a nagging injury I thought he looked pretty decent. He already has the 2nd best initial burst on the team. He's an instinctive runner, but he has to learn to work within the offense, which will come with increased reps. You can tell he's still adjusting to the speed of the NFL. A couple of times, he tried to freelance and bounce a run outside and got stonewalled. I'm sure that sort of stuff worked against MWC defenses, but not against an NFL front 7.

BossBruce
08-27-2012, 10:10 AM
This is what I saw:

I saw a guy that just got his first taste of the actual game speed in the NFL. You can practice all you want but game speed is completely different. You could tell he was trying to use his speed as he did in college. In the NFL, it's incredibly hard to outrun everybody to the sideline and turn the corner. Sometimes you can't make anything happen. You just have to turn your shoulders upfield and grab what you can when you have nowhere to go.

I liked how he eventually made one cut and turned upfield. Dude is small but it appears he isn't afraid to run behind his pads and get hit. I think once his vision develops a little more and he adjusts to the speed, he can be good.

Cool take.

BossBruce
08-27-2012, 10:11 AM
WAY to early to even speculate about this. This dude's 20...he ought to be a junior in college and this was his first game. If he just shows up he's already ahead of Knowshow. I think he's gonne be a good one though.

Observations do not equal speculation. Never did I speculate on what he'll become.

For what it's worth, I think (really hope) the kid will be a good NFL back.

BossBruce
08-27-2012, 10:13 AM
For a 20-year-old kid, coming off a nagging injury I thought he looked pretty decent. He already has the 2nd best initial burst on the team. He's an instinctive runner, but he has to learn to work within the offense, which will come with increased reps. You can tell he's still adjusting to the speed of the NFL. A couple of times, he tried to freelance and bounce a run outside and got stonewalled. I'm sure that sort of stuff worked against MWC defenses, but not against an NFL front 7.

Cool take. He's got a good coach and role model (McGahee) to learn from.

cmhargrove
08-27-2012, 10:19 AM
Definitely excited about this kid. Fortunately, he doesn't come into this team having to be a number one back from his first game. I saw flashes of something really special, especially in a Manning led offense.

Im sure he will get his chance to shine, and hopefully the other backs stay healthy so he has some time to learn.

I really like what I saw, and am "bullish" on what he will become for this team.

Rabb
08-27-2012, 10:22 AM
"league personnel" do TV and radio shows genius.

You got it, keep up with the awesome threads though!

gyldenlove
08-27-2012, 10:24 AM
I think he showed some skills, had a few good runs including one where he went down the middle for a 14 yard gain in a very narrow space but hit it at speed.

It was obvious he is still coming back from being out, he will be able to use his moves more once he gets the tempo of the game down and more experience in the offense. I did like that he was running on instinct, you see a lot of young RBs trying to overthink things and become indecisive, Moreno certainly had that problem, but I didn't see that from Hillman, he just ran downhill and if it wasn't there it wasn't there.

pricejj
08-27-2012, 10:34 AM
I could have chugged out 2.5 YPC.

-5.0 YPC, with a few fumbles, and a concussion.

razorwire77
08-27-2012, 10:35 AM
I think he showed some skills, had a few good runs including one where he went down the middle for a 14 yard gain in a very narrow space but hit it at speed.

It was obvious he is still coming back from being out, he will be able to use his moves more once he gets the tempo of the game down and more experience in the offense. I did like that he was running on instinct, you see a lot of young RBs trying to overthink things and become indecisive, Moreno certainly had that problem, but I didn't see that from Hillman, he just ran downhill and if it wasn't there it wasn't there.

That run was impressive. The thing I like about Hillman is he seems to be a compact runner with above average balance and jump cutting ability. Unless your Eric Dickerson, upright runners seem to really struggle in the transition from college to the NFL. Someone mentioned earlier that he's gotta learn to take what he's given. I think that's an excellent point. Against the Patrick Willis' and Julius Peppers' of the world, sometimes you're just not gonna be able to reverse footing and bounce outside. Make yourself as compact as possible and take the 2 or 3 yard gain. He'll learn.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2012, 10:49 AM
If he just shows up he's already ahead of Knowshow.

Moreno played in all 16 games his rookie year.

swaiy
08-27-2012, 10:56 AM
Moreno played in all 16 games his rookie year.

Not really knocking Moreno because I am still a huge supporter in him but, he was drafted 12th overall. McD couldn't make himself look any more stupid by drafting a RB that high and not playing him. Of course he played in all 16 games!

Falconer
08-27-2012, 10:56 AM
WAY to early to even speculate about this. This dude's 20...he ought to be a junior in college and this was his first game. If he just shows up he's already ahead of Knowshow. I think he's gonne be a good one though.

I actually thought Knowshon ran hard yesterday. I liked his effort after first contact.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2012, 11:00 AM
Not really knocking Moreno because I am still a huge supporter in him but, he was drafted 12th overall. McD couldn't make himself look any more stupid by drafting a RB that high and not playing him. Of course he played in all 16 games!

That's all well and good, but doesn't change the fact that footsteps' comment was asinine.

enjolras
08-27-2012, 11:16 AM
People are just nuts.

On my way to work today I heard a guy call into 104.3 and suggest that we need to cut Decker.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2012, 11:23 AM
People are just nuts.

On my way to work today I heard a guy call into 104.3 and suggest that we need to cut Decker.

Had to be either a joke or a fan of some other AFC West team.

Turd_Ferguson
08-27-2012, 11:28 AM
What did I think of Hillman after after 10 carries, in the latter half of a preseason game, when he is coming off a ham string injury that held him out for several weeks? I thought I would like to see him get 20 carries while playing with the starters, while fully healthy. If he was Adrian Peterson he wouldn't have been available in the 3rd round.

Bacchus
08-27-2012, 11:53 AM
I could have chugged out 2.5 YPC.

HAHA you'd be tackled in the back field every single play!!

Bacchus
08-27-2012, 11:54 AM
Moreno played in all 16 games his rookie year.

Thart's because McD drafted him in the first round. It had nothing to do with talent.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2012, 12:03 PM
Thart's because McD drafted him in the first round. It had nothing to do with talent.

But that's not the question. Please read the post I was responding to. It doesn't matter "why" he played all 16 games. All that matters was he did.

Lestat
08-27-2012, 12:12 PM
he looked fine to me. he's a rookie and coming off a hammy injury.
normally RB's who rely on quickness,shiftiness and change of direction like Hillman struggle when they have lower body injuries of any kind.

if he was a seasoned vet i'd be worried about his vision but he's a rookie and the only place he was expected to come in and perform like a 1,200 yard elite back was the mane.

he'll get his legs under him and be a very nice change of pace back for us as he gets more seasoning.

Requiem
08-27-2012, 12:28 PM
HAHA you'd be tackled in the back field every single play!!

I could break off 2k in our system.

enjolras
08-27-2012, 12:54 PM
Had to be either a joke or a fan of some other AFC West team.

Sadly.. I think the guy was serious. Apparently he didn't like how Decker had a bit of trouble with that second TD pass. He "bobbles the ball alot" or some other nonsense.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2012, 01:01 PM
Sadly.. I think the guy was serious. Apparently he didn't like how Decker had a bit of trouble with that second TD pass. He "bobbles the ball alot" or some other nonsense.

Scary.

To be honest, I have a feeling that if it was a regular season game, that one would've been called incomplete after a review.

ol#7
08-27-2012, 02:01 PM
Scary.

To be honest, I have a feeling that if it was a regular season game, that one would've been called incomplete after a review.

The caller did have a point. That perfect pass ate him up.

I wouldnt have known who Hillman was if I wasnt looking for him. Looked smaller than I thought (and I knew he was little), didnt see any flash out of him really. Not sure what the plans are for him this year, but thought Moreno looked excellent. He ran with some fire for once. If he brings that attitude every week we will have a good one two punch.

Hillman was going to be my fantasy sleeper. Dropped him and picked up Moreno in two leagues where he, ahem, went undrafted.

Inkana7
08-27-2012, 03:52 PM
oh you guys

Nwp-Apap
08-27-2012, 04:12 PM
10 carries for 2.9 yards would be playing well with that OL.

Then why did Knowshon not get that excuse?

Nwp-Apap
08-27-2012, 04:16 PM
Thart's because McD drafted him in the first round. It had nothing to do with talent.

Are you joking? Knowshon is at worst the second best back on the roster, but a case could easily be made for him to be #1. Some people are just so blinded, it's disturbing.

mhgaffney
08-27-2012, 04:33 PM
Pretty pedestrian if you ask me, though he is only 20 years old. He has a great skill-set , and he will be a good replacement for Knowshon whenever he is off the team (I assume even if he makes it this year, that he won't be on our team by the start of next season.) Hamstring is probably an issue. What was it, 10 carries for 30 yards with one of them being for 14? So, 9 carries for 16 yards? Not going to cut it, but can't really dog on him yet.

I'm still looking for some explosive screen plays -- Moreno is best catching the ball out of the backfield.

Rabb
08-27-2012, 05:58 PM
Then why did Knowshon not get that excuse?

#12

maher_tyler
08-27-2012, 07:12 PM
I thought Hillman was the lone bright spot on offense after the starters went out. Considering he was playing with a bunch of scrubs, its really hard to judge so i won't pick up the gavel just yet. Obviously our depth past the 1st stringers is lacking.

theAPAOps5
08-27-2012, 07:14 PM
It's a MUCH faster game. There's a good chance he's never going to look as fast as he did in college.

He played well and looking forward to what he can bring situationally.

This

hambone13
08-27-2012, 07:58 PM
Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why assume an honest critique is a bust proclamation?

And how exactly does one "look good for a rookie with a crap o-line and a bad hammy'? How do you measure that?

LOL, with logic like this, the 100 post rule does not apply. Outstanding.

kdissette
08-27-2012, 08:05 PM
does he have any return skills? or is he too small?

DarkHorse
08-27-2012, 08:10 PM
10 carries


Grade him out guys LOL

hambone13
08-27-2012, 08:31 PM
Scary.

To be honest, I have a feeling that if it was a regular season game, that one would've been called incomplete after a review.

No way. They went back and looked at it. He pranced his second foot in with control, clearly.

hambone13
08-27-2012, 08:32 PM
The caller did have a point. That perfect pass ate him up.

I wouldnt have known who Hillman was if I wasnt looking for him. Looked smaller than I thought (and I knew he was little), didnt see any flash out of him really. Not sure what the plans are for him this year, but thought Moreno looked excellent. He ran with some fire for once. If he brings that attitude every week we will have a good one two punch.

Hillman was going to be my fantasy sleeper. Dropped him and picked up Moreno in two leagues where he, ahem, went undrafted.

Gambling Idiots will play. Classic ridiculousness.

Beantown Bronco
08-27-2012, 08:40 PM
No way. They went back and looked at it. He pranced his second foot in with control, clearly.

That's fine. I watched the same broadcast everyone else did, with the 5 or 6 replays in slow mo and simply disagree. I never saw the ball stop moving until he was oob.

ZONA
08-27-2012, 10:23 PM
Ah, the only real way to judge rookies is in the regular season if they get a chance to come in on some plays. Then you can see how they do against starters in a game that matters...........and that makes all the difference in the world.

Let's wait until mid season and let's come back to this question then.

errand
08-27-2012, 11:09 PM
10 carries for 2.9 yards would be playing well with that OL.


This ^

amazing how there was nothing but constant bitching throughout the game about the scrubs on the 2nd and 3rd string OL...and yet they expect Hillman to run wild with those same chumps blocking for him.

Broncos_OTM
08-27-2012, 11:34 PM
I could break off 2k in our system.

Still waiting on this