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Que
08-23-2012, 09:08 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/23/lance-armstrong-usada-doping-charges_n_1826606.html

What a freaking tool.

tsiguy96
08-23-2012, 09:10 PM
i know very, very little about this case...but the one thing i wnated to know, is or was there ever direct evidence of a PED or some sort of performance procedure done?

DBroncos4life
08-23-2012, 09:17 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/23/lance-armstrong-usada-doping-charges_n_1826606.html

What a freaking tool.

After passing EVERY drug test they ever did on him I think the French can go **** a frog.

Que
08-23-2012, 09:25 PM
i know very, very little about this case...but the one thing i wnated to know, is or was there ever direct evidence of a PED or some sort of performance procedure done?

He had a hot A sample once and his B sample was destroyed before it could be tested. However the lab that tested the hot A sample was discredited (for good reason). But that is about it.

But you don't willingly accept this result, fall from being the greatest cyclist or even athlete of all time and be stripped of all your titles unless what was about to come out was far worse. I defended him until the end. Dammit. Pisses me off.

Irish Stout
08-23-2012, 09:31 PM
First - I think that this topic is so prevalent to the sports world, it should have a more clear title in the thread. But I appreciate the OP for bringing it forward.

As far as I am concerned no one has ever proven that Lance Armstrong used PEDs or cheated in any way. He simply got tired of fighting charges after 14 years of being accused by everyone. Too bad the sport of cycling is so infested with doping that one simply has to suggest that the greatest of all time was cheating too and without proof it warrants federal investigations in this country and others... and when they fail apparently it warrants another investigation by the USADA for a time period over 10 years ago.

Baba Booey
08-23-2012, 09:32 PM
I'd be pretty butthurt about a countryman of mine losing titles if it weren't cycling.

As Kenny Powers would say - "Not tryin' to be the best at exercising."

BroncoLifer
08-23-2012, 09:35 PM
Well I for one am not surprised. I've never understood how a clean guy could be so much better than all of the dopers that infest the sport. Passing the tests can be as simple as knowing where the weak spots in the testing are and staying one step ahead of them. From the link in the OP, it sounds like some of his teammates/enablers have started to talk.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
08-23-2012, 09:47 PM
I love this logic. "I stop defending myself after YEARS of them chasing with no evidence....then I'm guilty."

hambone13
08-23-2012, 10:05 PM
The arrogance of the French is unprecedented. They have been defending their honor or lack there of for centuries now. On a personal note, I can't imagine how distracting and disheartening being under this sort of gun as much as Lance has. The "angle" that such a competitor would "give up so easily" is not solid evidence in either direction.

What is apparent to me is that if it wasn't the Tour De France, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. There are so many things that an athlete at his level might do to gain an advantage that who knows whether the chemistry could ever by evidentiary. For all we know, he could be tapping into elements of the brain and endocrine system that makes him that much better. It's a very sketchy grey area to be definitive in biochemistry. We know about 10% of what we project to know about that subject, when real objective scientists sit down

swaiy
08-23-2012, 10:07 PM
Maybe he is indeed innocent. We'll never know. I could see giving up the fight though. I mean, who the hell has money to pay lawyers for over a decade trying to clear your name? Even if it eventually came out that he was innocent but what good does 7 titles do if you go bankrupt trying to prove you won them fair and square?

Pontius Pirate
08-23-2012, 10:11 PM
Don't get it. He has a lot of money. If he's innocent, just keep fighting it. Hell, keep your lawyer on retainer for 200,000 USD per year (he can make that in two public speaking appearances) and just lay out in Tahiti the rest of your life.

Surprised that such a fighter winds up being such a quitter.....or, you have to accept the fact that the dude actually is guilty

Mogulseeker
08-23-2012, 10:30 PM
After passing EVERY drug test they ever did on him I think the French can go **** a frog.

This. I dont understand how they can still be pursuing this after he took and passed "hundreds of drug tests over the 7 year period"

Do the math, just 100 tests is almost two tests a month.

Lestat
08-23-2012, 10:32 PM
Don't get it. He has a lot of money. If he's innocent, just keep fighting it. Hell, keep your lawyer on retainer for 200,000 USD per year (he can make that in two public speaking appearances) and just lay out in Tahiti the rest of your life.

Surprised that such a fighter winds up being such a quitter.....or, you have to accept the fact that the dude actually is guilty

he was never going to win this fight. the USADA had him by the balls.
the CEO has wanted him bad for years and Armstrong would have just wasted money, once the courts told him no to blocking it he was done.

i don't believe he didn't dope but there was no chance in hell of him keeping those titles no matter what he did in the USADA process.

DenverBroncosJM
08-23-2012, 10:37 PM
Well guess I can take this funny yellow band off now

BroncoLifer
08-23-2012, 10:38 PM
This. I dont understand how they can still be pursuing this after he took and passed "hundreds of drug tests over the 7 year period"

Do the math, just 100 tests is almost two tests a month.

Quoted from the link in the OP:

"The federal probe was closed in February, but USADA announced in June it had evidence Armstrong used banned substances and methods – and encouraged their use by teammates. The agency also said it had blood tests from 2009 and 2010 that were "fully consistent" with blood doping.

Included in USADA's evidence were emails written by Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate Floyd Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after a positive drug test. Landis' emails to a USA Cycling official detailed allegations of a complex doping program on the team.

USADA also said it had 10 former Armstrong teammates ready to testify against him."


If what is written above is true, he is toast.

Lycan
08-23-2012, 10:42 PM
They say they are going to strip him of his titles, how does a US based agency have the authority to strip Tour de France titles?

Also, if it was me I would have told them to go screw themselves long ago.

They've been harassing this guy for years, guilty or not they have gone WAY above and beyond to screw him. Why? Who cares this much about whether a retired cyclist cheated or not?

Mogulseeker
08-23-2012, 10:43 PM
Quoted from the link in the OP:

"The federal probe was closed in February, but USADA announced in June it had evidence Armstrong used banned substances and methods – and encouraged their use by teammates. The agency also said it had blood tests from 2009 and 2010 that were "fully consistent" with blood doping.

Included in USADA's evidence were emails written by Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate Floyd Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after a positive drug test. Landis' emails to a USA Cycling official detailed allegations of a complex doping program on the team.

USADA also said it had 10 former Armstrong teammates ready to testify against him."


If what is written above is true, he is toast.

Oh, I'm not arguing that he's not toast. I'm arguing that the whole ordeal is stupid.

I'm with Lance on this one.

hambone13
08-23-2012, 11:02 PM
Quoted from the link in the OP:

"The federal probe was closed in February, but USADA announced in June it had evidence Armstrong used banned substances and methods – and encouraged their use by teammates. The agency also said it had blood tests from 2009 and 2010 that were "fully consistent" with blood doping.

Included in USADA's evidence were emails written by Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate Floyd Landis, who was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title after a positive drug test. Landis' emails to a USA Cycling official detailed allegations of a complex doping program on the team.

USADA also said it had 10 former Armstrong teammates ready to testify against him."


If what is written above is true, he is toast.

What is written is not evidentiary. Just because the accusing commission says it, does not make it true. It's almost criminal that they can use the term "evidence" in the news and he can't sue for degradation of character. If there was true evidence, he would have already been found guilty. All of this fluff is just as likely that a man at the USADA's office is trying to gain recognition for his own career. There has been enough real evidence regarding prosecutors, motivated by political gain, in the last 10 years through DNA testing alone, that their profession needs to be regulated independently

24champ
08-23-2012, 11:13 PM
They've been trying to get Lance for over a decade now. He just isn't going to be playing by their bs rules anymore, and looks like he will sue the USADA.

Armstrong attorney Tim Herman fired a letter off to USADA Thursday that suggested Armstrong would sue if USADA moves to sanction him. "You are on notice that if USADA makes any public statement claiming, without jurisdiction, to sanction Mr. Armstrong, or to falsely characterize Mr. Armstrong's reasons for not requesting an arbitration as anything other than a recognition of (International Cycling Union) jurisdiction and authority, USADA and anyone involved in the making of the statement will be liable," Herman wrote.Herman told USADA it could submit its case against Armstrong to UCI (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/UCI) or the international Court of Arbitration (http://content.usatoday.com/topics/topic/Court+of+Arbitration) for Sport, based in Switzerland.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/story/2012-08-23/Armstrong-doping-charges/57258616/1

NUB
08-23-2012, 11:15 PM
They say they are going to strip him of his titles, how does a US based agency have the authority to strip Tour de France titles?

This is what I am wondering, too.

And to the people who question how a guy could win so much... These super-athletes actually exist, you know. We just watched Michael Phelps utterly destroy swimming for years now. Bolt just defended his sprinting medals at the Olympic, and he isn't just winning, he's blowing past his competitors.

Fifteen years of testing and nothing. Either Armstrong is legit or he is the world's greatest wizard at dodging the bloodtest dragnets swooped all around him.

hambone13
08-23-2012, 11:20 PM
This is what I am wondering, too.

And to the people who question how a guy could win so much... These super-athletes actually exist, you know. We just watched Michael Phelps utterly destroy swimming for years now. Bolt just defended his sprinting medals at the Olympic, and he isn't just winning, he's blowing past his competitors.

Fifteen years of testing and nothing. Either Armstrong is legit or he is the world's greatest wizard at dodging the bloodtest dragnets swooped all around him.

The French can't have us winning anything in their country, they may have to admit to having superior neighbors in most all of their significant conflicts.

theAPAOps5
08-23-2012, 11:22 PM
After passing EVERY drug test they ever did on him I think the French can go **** a frog.

**** those knee scraping nancies. Never failed a test. The USADA is like the FDA. Douche bag pricks with an agenda, science be damned.

Tell you what this is cheating I want my kids to learn. $150 million net worth and $500 million donated/raised for cancer research. Stick that in you mouth and blow it frenchie.


To all French members, this is directed at the general frenchie and not you. Unless you are on their side, the go scrape your knees! ^5

hambone13
08-23-2012, 11:43 PM
They've been trying to get Lance for over a decade now. He just isn't going to be playing by their bs rules anymore, and looks like he will sue the USADA.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/story/2012-08-23/Armstrong-doping-charges/57258616/1

My father is a maxillofacial surgeon. There was a law passed back in the 80's, where doctors could counter sue frivolous claims. Over the last 27 years, he has won over 100K in these suits and never paid a claim. He paid over 120K in legal fees to preserve his reputation. He could have collected more if he chose to spend the legal fees on it, but the lawyers fees outweighed the financial capacity of the suing elements to pay him back. At some point, you have to make a financial decision.

Taco John
08-24-2012, 12:01 AM
Unbelievable how much money was "invested" in running Lance Armstrong down. Who funds this crap?

That One Guy
08-24-2012, 12:02 AM
It's possible whatever he was doing just wasn't being caught in conventional tests. You have to look for something to find it in most cases. Maybe that's why they were able to go back and find evidence of doping whereas it wasn't found at the time when noone knew to look for it.

That One Guy
08-24-2012, 12:04 AM
Why does the USADA have such a grudge that they'd go out of their way to ruin Armstrong? Why would so many former teammates lie on the guy after he was such an inspiration to so many?

hambone13
08-24-2012, 12:10 AM
It's possible whatever he was doing just wasn't being caught in conventional tests. You have to look for something to find it in most cases. Maybe that's why they were able to go back and find evidence of doping whereas it wasn't found at the time when noone knew to look for it.

Are you kidding? They've been looking at him under a microscope for ages. That is the residing point.

hambone13
08-24-2012, 12:17 AM
Why does the USADA have such a grudge that they'd go out of their way to ruin Armstrong? Why would so many former teammates lie on the guy after he was such an inspiration to so many?

There is so much wrapped into your statement that it could be a thesis to award letters after your name. Just because his teammates were named and called doesn't mean that any of them had any thing relevant to potential guilt.

From an objective perspective, they could be seeking financial gain for being named witnesses. They could be jealous of his fame and / or angry about being drug into all of this and arrogantly thought they could beat him. There are endless counter arguments. Just turn on day time television.

Rohirrim
08-24-2012, 12:54 AM
Without the French, America is still a colony of Britain. ;D

Bacchus
08-24-2012, 01:06 AM
who cares, really.

hambone13
08-24-2012, 01:24 AM
Without the French, America is still a colony of Britain. ;D

Without the US, the French and the rest of the Europe are a bunch of Nazis'. I'm not saying the French haven't been beneficial in American History. What I am saying is what I've already said. They are opportunistic and self promoting to the point of arrogance without stead.

You would think a nation of such great historical leadership would show a bit of respect to their relevant historical allies . They don't even show any respect to their own people in Quebec. They've show themselves to be a nation of laziness through wealth that has always needed allies to stay afloat.

Bacchus
08-24-2012, 01:26 AM
Without the US, the French and the rest of the Europe are a bunch of Nazis'. I'm not saying the French haven't been beneficial in American History. What I am saying is what I've already said. They are opportunistic and self promoting to the point of arrogance without stead.

You would think a nation of such great historical leadership would show a bit of respect to their relevant historical allies . They don't even show any respect to their own people in Quebec. They've show themselves to be a nation of laziness through wealth that has always needed allies to stay afloat.

By that logic without the French The U.S. would still be a British colony.

hambone13
08-24-2012, 01:35 AM
By that logic without the French The U.S. would still be a British colony.

No, it would have just taken longer. The British couldn't even stay their own significant islands. Do I need to name them?

Nordcore
08-24-2012, 02:32 AM
yes.. I'm french and we are sooooo wicked with Lance...only because he is american...seriously...

The only thing that i can say about this is that an immense majority of french people totally don't care about it and I'm one of them.

But yes I know, we are arrogant and stupid...and lazy I forgot this one.

PS : Sorry for my english...

Miss I.
08-24-2012, 02:44 AM
out of curiosity why the slandering and propulgating of French stereotypes with regard to this issue with Lance Armstrong? Is it the French that are trying to take his titles or an American agency? I thought it was an American thing prosecuting the guy? If I am wrong, by all means continue bashing the French at random.

But for the record, saying All French are lazy and arrogant is like saying All Americans are loud jackasses. Sure some of them are, but frankly I thought the Germans in Berlin were the least friendly people I've met since moving to England and some of the English the most outwardly polite but incredibly patronizing and sarcastic in certain areas, but then again you go to Northern England and they are so much more outwardly friendly than Londoners.

But carry on blaming the French for this thing with Lance Armstrong, it's fascinating.

extralife
08-24-2012, 02:56 AM
The French can't have us winning anything in their country, they may have to admit to having superior neighbors in most all of their significant conflicts.

Hey dip****, it's not the French going after him. Do you see an F in the acronym USADA? Don't let that stop you from acting like a moron, though--I know someone you know once told you the French were dumb, so you better stick with that.

Rohirrim
08-24-2012, 02:59 AM
Just for that, I am only eating Freedom Fries!

hambone13
08-24-2012, 03:27 AM
out of curiosity why the slandering and propulgating of French stereotypes with regard to this issue with Lance Armstrong? Is it the French that are trying to take his titles or an American agency? I thought it was an American thing prosecuting the guy? If I am wrong, by all means continue bashing the French at random.

But for the record, saying All French are lazy and arrogant is like saying All Americans are loud jackasses. Sure some of them are, but frankly I thought the Germans in Berlin were the least friendly people I've met since moving to England and some of the English the most outwardly polite but incredibly patronizing and sarcastic in certain areas, but then again you go to Northern England and they are so much more outwardly friendly than Londoners.

But carry on blaming the French for this thing with Lance Armstrong, it's fascinating.

It's easy to be the moderator.

hambone13
08-24-2012, 03:30 AM
Hey dip****, it's not the French going after him. Do you see an F in the acronym USADA? Don't let that stop you from acting like a moron, though--I know someone you know once told you the French were dumb, so you better stick with that.

Alright, I guess the other political elements that I mentioned earlier were insignificant. Do all of you jackasses just chime in on page 3?

hambone13
08-24-2012, 03:32 AM
out of curiosity why the slandering and propulgating of French stereotypes with regard to this issue with Lance Armstrong? Is it the French that are trying to take his titles or an American agency? I thought it was an American thing prosecuting the guy? If I am wrong, by all means continue bashing the French at random.

But for the record, saying All French are lazy and arrogant is like saying All Americans are loud jackasses. Sure some of them are, but frankly I thought the Germans in Berlin were the least friendly people I've met since moving to England and some of the English the most outwardly polite but incredibly patronizing and sarcastic in certain areas, but then again you go to Northern England and they are so much more outwardly friendly than Londoners.

But carry on blaming the French for this thing with Lance Armstrong, it's fascinating.

The "American Thing" is just so awesome man. Why don't you tell us, what is significant about the data that is making him internationally screwed because of the French influence on the media?

hambone13
08-24-2012, 03:45 AM
Hey dip****, it's not the French going after him. Do you see an F in the acronym USADA? Don't let that stop you from acting like a moron, though--I know someone you know once told you the French were dumb, so you better stick with that.

What are you, the Internationally Media? Do you need a story? Have I ever called the French Dumb? Am I liable for anything I've said about the French? Hell, even a Frenchman piped in and ratified everything I did say.

Get yourself out of your first year ethics course and study some history. Even the French know they're arrogant and stupid about much international policy. That doesn't change the fact that we have made similar mistakes as a nation ourselves but the French have little to no influence because of their history as forked tongued buffoons. No one trusts them. It's not just me on this board you ludicrous jackass.

Miss I.
08-24-2012, 03:45 AM
The "American Thing" is just so awesome man. Why don't you tell us, what is significant about the data that is making him internationally screwed because of the French influence on the media?

What are you even talking about? First your moderator comment makes no sense. I get that the original title of the thread was meant to incite antifrench bias but the driving force behind this is not the organization behind the tour de France its a us anti doping agency. The witnesses described in the article are American riders who worked with Armstrong. Now is the case against armstrong faulty and probAbly bull****? Probably. But I just sincerely don't understand how the discussion became a "the French owe us because of WWII And they are out to get lance in the French media" history mudslinging lesson. The huffington post article is US media though frankly I think of it as a blog more than news.

I got sarcastic admittedly but the point remains that the French are not persecuting Lance Armstrong, the US AntiDoping Agency is pushing its own agenda probably because if they make an example of the most well known cyclist-hero it puts them on the map and they think it will deter other riders

Miss I.
08-24-2012, 03:48 AM
What are you, the Internationally Media? Do you need a story? Have I ever called the French Dumb? Am I liable for anything I've said about the French? Hell, even a Frenchman piped in and ratified everything I did say.

Get yourself out of your first year ethics course and study some history. Even the French know they're arrogant and stupid about much international policy. That doesn't change the fact that we have made similar mistakes as a nation ourselves but the French have little to no influence because of their history as forked tongued buffoons. No one trusts them. It's not just me on this board you ludicrous jackass.

Pretty sure the French guy was being sarcastic.

hambone13
08-24-2012, 03:52 AM
What are you even talking about? First your moderator comment makes no sense. I get that the original title of the thread was meant to incite antifrench bias but the driving force behind this is not the organization behind the tour de France its a us anti doping agency. The witnesses described in the article are American riders who worked with Armstrong. Now is the case against armstrong faulty and probAbly bull****? Probably. But I just sincerely don't understand how the discussion became a "the French owe us because of WWII And they are out to get lance in the French media" history mudslinging lesson. The huffington post article is US media though frankly I think of it as a blog more than news.

I got sarcastic admittedly but the point remains that the French are not persecuting Lance Armstrong, the US AntiDoping Agency is pushing its own agenda probably because if they make an example of the most well known cyclist-hero it puts them on the map and they think it will deter other riders

Because it incites an agency to gain power due to it's bitching in our own media based on nothing but the popularity. All that needs happen is mention it.

hambone13
08-24-2012, 03:54 AM
Pretty sure the French guy was being sarcastic.

I seriously doubt it. He admittedly didn't speak English well. Sarcasm is the last thing to try when you end that way. Weak.

Miss I.
08-24-2012, 03:56 AM
Because it incites an agency to gain power due to it's b****ing in our own media based on nothing but the popularity. All that needs happen is mention it.

Still not following you in tying it to the French. The anti doping agency pushing the agenda is American. Are you stating this agency is being pushed by The French?

Nordcore
08-24-2012, 04:09 AM
I seriously doubt it. He admittedly didn't speak English well. Sarcasm is the last thing to try when you end that way. Weak.

ouch my english is worst than I thought... I should have known it, I'm French...I'm arrogant...

hambone13
08-24-2012, 04:10 AM
What are you even talking about? First your moderator comment makes no sense. I get that the original title of the thread was meant to incite antifrench bias but the driving force behind this is not the organization behind the tour de France its a us anti doping agency. The witnesses described in the article are American riders who worked with Armstrong. Now is the case against armstrong faulty and probAbly bull****? Probably. But I just sincerely don't understand how the discussion became a "the French owe us because of WWII And they are out to get lance in the French media" history mudslinging lesson. The huffington post article is US media though frankly I think of it as a blog more than news.

I got sarcastic admittedly but the point remains that the French are not persecuting Lance Armstrong, the US AntiDoping Agency is pushing its own agenda probably because if they make an example of the most well known cyclist-hero it puts them on the map and they think it will deter other riders

That's a very journalistic approach to immediate details and I appreciate where you're coming from there. However, I don't hate the French any more than the French hate Americans but there are prejudicial points that are openly accepted with the educated between us countries. As I referenced before, the French Gentleman that posted a bit ago, ratified my points in a much more poignant way than I ever did to your criticisms.

All any legitimate organization has to do internationally is point a scandal at our country and we'll bloat it by nature. The fact that the Tour De France is the biggest bike race on the planet, should say enough by design. If you think the French didn't have any intention of doing this, then we'll agree to disagree.

IMO, we don't need France to jack Lance up, we just need them to accuse him. That gives some jackass bureaucrat all the leverage he needs. So ultimately, I'm criticizing the US. Is that acceptable?

hambone13
08-24-2012, 04:10 AM
ouch my english is worst than I thought... I should have known it, I'm French...I'm arrogant...

So you were being sarcastic or not?

Miss I.
08-24-2012, 04:16 AM
It's your opinion so feel or express what you want, though if I try to be more respectful in my responses in future can I expect the same?

I am not trying to tell you what to think, but I wanted to genuinely figure out why this became a debate about the French rather than an analysis of why the US Anti-Doping Agency is going after Lance Armstrong or even the actual details of the article.

As for the French person who was posting, he was definitely being sarcastic. I asked him. Damn arrogant French. ;D

Natedogg
08-24-2012, 04:24 AM
So you were being sarcastic or not?

:hitself:

Miss I.
08-24-2012, 04:34 AM
QUOTE=Nordcore;3646498]ouch my english is worst than I thought... I should have known it, I'm French...I'm arrogant...[/QUOTE]

bonjour mon frog,
Or something. Word of advice (insert sarcastic smilie here), if you plan on being sarcastic, use a smilie of some sort. It helps. Now, if you plan on being sarcastic AND French, well you need to use some sort of French smilie, perhaps an Eiffel Tower or a Pepe Le Pew, a croissant, or a creepy looking french dude in a beret who has a creepy smile.. Then we will all know you are being sarcastic while French.

;D or a French Kiss..:kiss:

Bacchus
08-24-2012, 04:52 AM
No, it would have just taken longer. The British couldn't even stay their own significant islands. Do I need to name them?

well, then who is to say the French would be Nazis? I believe even without US help the Russians would have destroyed Germany.

Garcia Bronco
08-24-2012, 05:17 AM
First off the Usada can't strip him of anything and second...he's just tired of fighting them. He didn't say he did anything wrong. The USADA is a joke for their recommendation.

Garcia Bronco
08-24-2012, 05:22 AM
Give the French a break. Without our French brothers and sisters, we would have suffered under a crazy King.

Garcia Bronco
08-24-2012, 05:26 AM
yes.. I'm french and we are sooooo wicked with Lance...only because he is american...seriously...

The only thing that i can say about this is that an immense majority of french people totally don't care about it and I'm one of them.

But yes I know, we are arrogant and stupid...and lazy I forgot this one.

PS : Sorry for my english...

Your english is great.

Miss I.
08-24-2012, 05:29 AM
well, then who is to say the French would be Nazis? I believe even without US help the Russians would have destroyed Germany.

Holy crap! So it's the Russians who are after Lance Armstrong! I knew it!

:curtsey:

Just kidding. I need to go make my American sarcasm smilie now.

Boogerboots
08-24-2012, 05:36 AM
Maybe they should look at Chael Sonnen before blaming "The French"?

When Landis got busted and started pointing fingers everywhere except towards himself, that's where the downfall of Armstrong started.

Given all that he's gone through, its sad to see him still being badgered for all these years. After seeing first hand how cancer treatments can virtually destroy a person, to see Lance return to the top levels of such a grueling sport is nothing short of remarkable.

BroncoInferno
08-24-2012, 05:42 AM
I imagine pretty much every cyclist worth a damn for the past 15-20 years has been a doper. I mean, supposedly Armstrong's teammates were going to testify that U.S. cycling had a doping program. You don't think every other competitive country was doing the same thing? Otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to compete. I mean, really, what are they gonna do with the titles? Give them to the second place finisher who was probably also a doper?

Beantown Bronco
08-24-2012, 06:00 AM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KpLMnk2qi8o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

SleepingTiger
08-24-2012, 06:04 AM
well, then who is to say the French would be Nazis? I believe even without US help the Russians would have destroyed Germany.

When your capital is captured within a month of fighting, you honestly think the frenchies have any will to fight? if they aren't speaking German, they would be speaking either english or Russian.

I'm not going to say without the US the Russian would of beaten Germany. Without US support, the English would of fallen. Key resources in Africa would be been under Nazi control. The Russians have limited air force and Nazi's would of dominated the air. Nazi wouldn't be fighting a war on two fronts. US and English bombing raids slowed and halted many Nazi manufacturing and R&D facilities. Honestly, without the US, the Russians never had a chance.

Meck77
08-24-2012, 06:12 AM
It's not that easy to round up 10 former teammates and get them all to lie. Think about that. So maybe a couple of them could be jealous but 10?

Rather then lance facing them he folds?

Sorry lance you go down as a cheater in my book. I know it's difficult for people to come to the understanding that people they idolized could be cheaters but Lance only fought when he thought he could win. Once the fire was held to his feet he folded right away.

As Kenny Rodgers once said "You got to know when to hold em...know when to fold em". He folded at time where some will give him the benefit of the doubt vs after the trial where there would have likely been no doubt.

Garcia Bronco
08-24-2012, 06:19 AM
It's not that easy to round up 10 former teammates and get them all to lie. Think about that. So maybe a couple of them could be jealous but 10?

Rather then lance facing them he folds?

Sorry lance you go down as a cheater in my book. I know it's difficult for people to come to the understanding that people they idolized could be cheaters but Lance only fought when he thought he could win. Once the fire was held to his feet he folded right away.

As Kenny Rodgers once said "You got to know when to hold em...know when to fold em". He folded at time where some will give him the benefit of the doubt vs after the trial where there would have likely been no doubt.

I disagree...and the next line to that song is "know when to walk away" Why should he waste another second of his life fighting these ridiculious charges?

theAPAOps5
08-24-2012, 06:26 AM
When the international cycling body, who have been desperate to bust lance are telling the USADA how redicules their case is, you have a problem.

Lance didn't just quit fighting he realized that he won't get a fair arbitration ruling and that like everyone else thinks its the USADA.

Meck77
08-24-2012, 06:28 AM
Why should he waste another second of his life fighting these ridiculious charges?

To face his accusers which would have been his former 10 teammates. Why wouldn't he after all those years?

I don't think he was prepared for what they had to say.

Come on Garcia. This is a guy who always pushed over the last hill to finish the race. He was at the finish line in this case. Only problem at the end of this race was a stack of people who lived and raced beside him who were finally prepared to talk.

gyldenlove
08-24-2012, 06:42 AM
I love the apologists - so I guess OJ was innocent and Al Capone was just a tax fraud?

The reason he backed out now was not because he was tired of playing by their rules, it is because all attempts at getting an injunction failed and if he continued through all the evidence against him would be published and he would ultimately risk committing perjury - that would kill his income potential. This is purely a money decision, unless USADA decides to publish the entire case anyway Lance can keep going on the public speaking trail.

There is little doubt UCI will strip his titles, they have done so before with others who have been sanctioned for PEDs after the end of their active careers, but it is not something USADA has the power to do, although they can advice that it should happen.

Natedogg
08-24-2012, 06:47 AM
I saw this about a year ago and it convinced me Lance probably doped. It just didn't seem like Hamilton was lying to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nTTGGnw8ak

Garcia Bronco
08-24-2012, 06:50 AM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KpLMnk2qi8o" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Gee Ricky, sorry your mom blew-up.

Garcia Bronco
08-24-2012, 06:53 AM
To face his accusers which would have been his former 10 teammates. Why wouldn't he after all those years?

I don't think he was prepared for what they had to say.

Come on Garcia. This is a guy who always pushed over the last hill to finish the race. He was at the finish line in this case. Only problem at the end of this race was a stack of people who lived and raced beside him who were finally prepared to talk.

If they watched him do something dishonest back then, why didn't they report him then? Excuse me while I don't accept the lies of liars. Either they were lieing then or lieing now. They have no credibility from my perspective.

socalorado
08-24-2012, 06:55 AM
When the international cycling body, who have been desperate to bust lance are telling the USADA how redicules their case is, you have a problem.

Lance didn't just quit fighting he realized that he won't get a fair arbitration ruling and that like everyone else thinks its the USADA.

^THIS.

French can eat a fat dick.

Kaylore
08-24-2012, 07:09 AM
yes.. I'm french and we are sooooo wicked with Lance...only because he is american...seriously...

The only thing that i can say about this is that an immense majority of french people totally don't care about it and I'm one of them.

But yes I know, we are arrogant and stupid...and lazy I forgot this one.

PS : Sorry for my english...

I didn't think the French liked football, excuse me, AMERICAN football. How did you become a Broncos fan?

Irish Stout
08-24-2012, 07:18 AM
When the international cycling body, who have been desperate to bust lance are telling the USADA how redicules their case is, you have a problem.

Lance didn't just quit fighting he realized that he won't get a fair arbitration ruling and that like everyone else thinks its the USADA.

The arbitration is held at the USADA, by a USADA arbitrator, under USADA rules, which the USADA hasn't even followed in regards to Lance. All of the people they have ready to testify against Lance have been promised indemnity for their own doping transgressions by the USADA. Lance and his legal team weren't allowed to review the results or samples of any of the USADA evidence, including blood tests prior to the arbitration date. The USADA basically was bringing a tank to a basketball game.

Is Lance guilty or innocent of doping? I don't know. I would have to assume at some point at some time, Lance doped. However, the dude has never failed a test and of the 10 years of criminal and civil suits, it has never been proven that he doped. The matter should be over. Its a waste of resources and time to continue attempting to prosecute him. He is retired and his foundation and name are doing a lot of good for a lot of people struggling with cancer.

Meck77
08-24-2012, 07:20 AM
If they watched him do something dishonest back then, why didn't they report him then? Excuse me while I don't accept the lies of liars. Either they were lieing then or lieing now. They have no credibility from my perspective.

You also started a thread that said gold was a bad investment a couple years ago. You've been wrong before. ;D

This is why Lance bowed out. He felt he had enough people who will still believe him and like someone else pointed out he still has income potential as a result.

Irish Stout
08-24-2012, 07:21 AM
To face his accusers which would have been his former 10 teammates. Why wouldn't he after all those years?

I don't think he was prepared for what they had to say.


He's already faced many of them before in legal proceedings, including Floyd Landis, who clearly has mental issues. Thats the thing, its all been done before in this country and in Europe.

Nordcore
08-24-2012, 07:21 AM
I didn't think the French liked football, excuse me, AMERICAN football. How did you become a Broncos fan?

I saw a game on tv , I didn't understand the rules but I found it very intriguing. It was in 1996 I think, I tried to understand this sport and I fell in love with it. Right now , I follow Football and Rugby, I'm not a big fan of soccer.

Why the Broncos? Terrell Davis and John Mobley for me, I really liked this two players and it was glorious days for Broncos. Since these days , I am a die hard fan I think but I'm alone in France so I come everyday on Orangemane or milehighreport to follow my team :)

Hope it's understandable.

jonny1
08-24-2012, 07:43 AM
I saw a game on tv , I didn't understand the rules but I found it very intriguing. It was in 1996 I think, I tried to understand this sport and I fell in love with it. Right now , I follow Football and Rugby, I'm not a big fan of soccer.

Why the Broncos? Terrell Davis and John Mobley for me, I really liked this two players and it was glorious days for Broncos. Since these days , I am a die hard fan I think but I'm alone in France so I come everyday on Orangemane or milehighreport to follow my team :)

Hope it's understandable.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

Tombstone RJ
08-24-2012, 08:05 AM
out of curiosity why the slandering and propulgating of French stereotypes with regard to this issue with Lance Armstrong? Is it the French that are trying to take his titles or an American agency? I thought it was an American thing prosecuting the guy? If I am wrong, by all means continue bashing the French at random.

But for the record, saying All French are lazy and arrogant is like saying All Americans are loud jackasses. Sure some of them are, but frankly I thought the Germans in Berlin were the least friendly people I've met since moving to England and some of the English the most outwardly polite but incredibly patronizing and sarcastic in certain areas, but then again you go to Northern England and they are so much more outwardly friendly than Londoners.

But carry on blaming the French for this thing with Lance Armstrong, it's fascinating.

yes, in general the french are morons.

Beantown Bronco
08-24-2012, 08:19 AM
yes, in general the french are morons.

worse

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/i3o5SB1CfgU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Chris
08-24-2012, 08:23 AM
Smartest move for a guilty man to make.

Meck77
08-24-2012, 08:23 AM
yes, in general the french are morons.

And they really do stink.

Exactly Chris.

Rohirrim
08-24-2012, 08:28 AM
yes, in general the french are morons.

My grandmother was French, ahole.

Chris
08-24-2012, 08:28 AM
On the subject of France, I wonder how many people make these statements without ever having been to the country. I was there last week and I go there with some regularity. There's certainly an obstinacy about French culture but I think the idea that they're somehow insulted an American won "their" tour is far fetched.

24champ
08-24-2012, 08:30 AM
The arbitration is held at the USADA, by a USADA arbitrator, under USADA rules, which the USADA hasn't even followed in regards to Lance. All of the people they have ready to testify against Lance have been promised indemnity for their own doping transgressions by the USADA. Lance and his legal team weren't allowed to review the results or samples of any of the USADA evidence, including blood tests prior to the arbitration date. The USADA basically was bringing a tank to a basketball game.

Is Lance guilty or innocent of doping? I don't know. I would have to assume at some point at some time, Lance doped. However, the dude has never failed a test and of the 10 years of criminal and civil suits, it has never been proven that he doped. The matter should be over. Its a waste of resources and time to continue attempting to prosecute him. He is retired and his foundation and name are doing a lot of good for a lot of people struggling with cancer.

Correct, why continue fighting an unfair fight. His lawyer even suggested they take the arbitration to an international organization in Sweden.

Kaylore
08-24-2012, 08:41 AM
I saw a game on tv , I didn't understand the rules but I found it very intriguing. It was in 1996 I think, I tried to understand this sport and I fell in love with it. Right now , I follow Football and Rugby, I'm not a big fan of soccer.

Why the Broncos? Terrell Davis and John Mobley for me, I really liked this two players and it was glorious days for Broncos. Since these days , I am a die hard fan I think but I'm alone in France so I come everyday on Orangemane or milehighreport to follow my team :)

Hope it's understandable.

That's amazing.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-24-2012, 08:49 AM
First - I think that this topic is so prevalent to the sports world, it should have a more clear title in the thread. But I appreciate the OP for bringing it forward.

As far as I am concerned no one has ever proven that Lance Armstrong used PEDs or cheated in any way. He simply got tired of fighting charges after 14 years of being accused by everyone. Too bad the sport of cycling is so infested with doping that one simply has to suggest that the greatest of all time was cheating too and without proof it warrants federal investigations in this country and others... and when they fail apparently it warrants another investigation by the USADA for a time period over 10 years ago.

I don't know man... You don't just give up on the truth.

ludo21
08-24-2012, 08:54 AM
He has stated that he has enough money in the bank to live comfortably with his kids (5) and future grandkids.

I am sure he does not mind leaving while he has the cash to do so one bit.

BroncoLifer
08-24-2012, 09:40 AM
If they watched him do something dishonest back then, why didn't they report him then? Excuse me while I don't accept the lies of liars. Either they were lieing then or lieing now. They have no credibility from my perspective.

I guess you wouldn't have believed Joseph Valachi or Sammy Gravano, either. We're seeing cycling's wall of omerta start to break.

BroncoBeavis
08-24-2012, 09:50 AM
Well I'll be damned. A French Broncos Fan. :)

BroncoBeavis
08-24-2012, 09:52 AM
My grandmother was French, ahole.

There you go. French smack talk is now family smack talk. Banham Justice to follow. :)

Que
08-24-2012, 09:59 AM
Smartest move for a guilty man to make.

Quoted for truth. USADA had him dead to rights and he knew it.

What I really want to know is what did the USADA manage to get that WADA and even the Feds didn't? What made guys like Hincapie, Horner and Levi (pretty sure he was going to testify) break the cone of silence?

Anyhow, the Tour history books are an even bigger mess now. In I think 3 of Lances Tour victories the #2 guy (Jan Ulrich) has already expunged due to doping. What a mess cycling is.

EDIT: by the way, you couldn't find a bigger LA fan than me. Until last night. Just the other day I was tossing out Lance quotes when my 7 year old daughter and I were on a trail run. Not really looking forward to explaining this one to them. Prolly will just skip it.

Tombstone RJ
08-24-2012, 10:16 AM
My grandmother was French, ahole.

LOL

BroncoBeavis
08-24-2012, 10:29 AM
Really the problem is how dumb this whole war on performance enhancing substances is getting.

Sure sure, test for them. That's fine. But if your enforcement system doesn't catch them in the act, then tough ****. You have to draw a line somewhere, and god forbid the NFL see a day where players start getting suspended or have their rings revoked based on decade-later interviews and other players' feelings.

I'm not saying Lance didn't cheat. I'm not a cycling fan so I don't really care. But all aggressively competitive sports harbor some sort of cheating on some level that can't be 100% enforced.

If you want to overturn the whole sport every time that fact gets brought to the surface, why bother with the whole exercise in the first place?

Tombstone RJ
08-24-2012, 10:41 AM
there's some real ax-grinding BS behind this whole thing and I think it starts with the frogs.

Garcia Bronco
08-24-2012, 11:04 AM
You also started a thread that said gold was a bad investment a couple years ago. You've been wrong before. ;D

This is why Lance bowed out. He felt he had enough people who will still believe him and like someone else pointed out he still has income potential as a result.

I said it was a bad investment for people buying a small amount. Scrap up 1700 bucks to invest in an ounce and maybe it gains 500 bucks over 4 years. there is a better use of your money. It's not a good investment. Now if you can buy 20 ouces...now you're talking about a better "investment"

Beantown Bronco
08-24-2012, 11:09 AM
Scrap up 1700 bucks to invest in an ounce and maybe it gains 500 bucks. It's not a good investment.

How on Earth is a 30% return on anything not "a good investment"?

Garcia Bronco
08-24-2012, 11:11 AM
How on Earth is a 30% return on anything not "a good investment"?

Because I can go work for 3 weeks in a part time job and get that amount after taxes. 3 weeks....30 hours versus 2-3...whatever number of years.

BroncoBeavis
08-24-2012, 11:12 AM
How on Earth is a 30% return on anything not "a good investment"?

As you may have heard OM's been overtaken by Meth Seller logic.

Beantown Bronco
08-24-2012, 11:22 AM
Because I can go work for 3 weeks in a part time job and get that amount after taxes. 3 weeks....30 hours versus 2-3...whatever number of years.

I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say.

Most people who invest, also work. Most people who invest don't make 30% on their investments.

Meck77
08-24-2012, 11:30 AM
How on Earth is a 30% return on anything not "a good investment"?

For as much as he thinks he knows he doesn't understand something that we all learned in maybe 3 or 4th grade. It's called %.

Anyway Lance played the situation as well as he could. By not allowing them to prove him guilty he can still make a few bucks on late night infomercials or end up as a spokesman for viagra. This is lance armstrong "Just keep on pumping but if the heat is on too much just roll over".

Miss I.
08-24-2012, 11:38 AM
For as much as he thinks he knows he doesn't understand something that we all learned in maybe 3 or 4th grade. It's called %.

Anyway Lance played the situation as well as he could. By not allowing them to prove him guilty he can still make a few bucks on late night infomercials or end up as a spokesman for viagra. This is lance armstrong "Just keep on pumping but if the heat is on too much just roll over".

funny, I had a guy say that to me once..but oh wait, what were we talking about. ;D


sorry it was just too easy..I could've resisted, but well, I just didn't.

Drunk Monkey
08-24-2012, 11:40 AM
On the subject of France, I wonder how many people make these statements without ever having been to the country. I was there last week and I go there with some regularity. There's certainly an obstinacy about French culture but I think the idea that they're somehow insulted an American won "their" tour is far fetched.

I have had issues in Paris several times and would generally consider them on the ruder side. I have had nothing but good experiences once I got out of the city. The same can be said for many major American cities. Life moves at a faster pace and people aren't very interested in waiting for you to figure things out.

I think the stereotype comes more from their international diplomacy. Not so much lately but back when Chirac was in power he was a grade A asshole.

Oleg Gordievsky
08-24-2012, 11:57 AM
Oleg telling silly fools true story. Listen now.

Oleg is in France. Oleg is making amorous sowing. French evening ladies make epic. Very many history in evening lady history. Oleg deciding it to be time to pay for rock offing.

Oleg picking finest lady on corner of avenue. Beautiful lady this is! She go with Oleg to rooming quarter. Oleg start taking off clothing while evening lady must use lav. Oleg liking woman who smells not of musk. Russian women make many weeks between bathing. Use lav, lady! Freshen your privatings for sensual!

Listen now! Oleg peering in lav, and seeing evening lady making waste. What is this? She is standing at head! Chto za huy!

It makes happy ending. Oleg was feeling many passion. Na kaleni, suka! Was not so bad.

rmsanger
08-24-2012, 12:04 PM
Is there anywhere that summarizes all of the evidence that the French & US Cycling bodies had against Lance and doping? I remember a member of his team came out and admitted the whole USPS team was doping.

Do they have any consecutive positive blood test results from him?

Rock Chalk
08-24-2012, 12:37 PM
i know very, very little about this case...but the one thing i wnated to know, is or was there ever direct evidence of a PED or some sort of performance procedure done?

Never failed a drug test.

Then again, neither did Barry Bonds, or Mark McGuire.

Just saying.

Requiem
08-24-2012, 12:47 PM
Always knew he was a doper!!!!

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-24-2012, 12:51 PM
So they strip him of the wins. Something tha anti doping agency has no power to do. Then what. Give the win to the 2nd place cyclist? Then start an investigation on him? Then strip him of the wins and give it to the 3rd place finisher. Investigate him and so forth. He won in a field of dopers.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-24-2012, 12:53 PM
Unfair advantage? Lets see the other cyclists get cancer and try to beat that.

Requiem
08-24-2012, 12:58 PM
Unfair advantage? Lets see the other cyclists get cancer and try to beat that.

Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool! Hilarious!

DomCasual
08-24-2012, 01:16 PM
Unfair advantage? Lets see the other cyclists get cancer and try to beat that.

It reminds me of the double amputee that competed in the Olympics. Complaints were filed, saying it was an unfair advantage. Really? Okay, here you go. Cut off your legs!

BroncsCheer
08-24-2012, 01:20 PM
I think it took a lot of ball for him to walk away from this.....

LittleFloyd
08-24-2012, 01:22 PM
So let me get this straight. All of them put patches on at night. Next morning they took them off. Biked and pee'd. So Armstrong won and the others didn't. All of them cheated with the patches. Armstrong still won. All cheated. Who is right? No one. Armstrong won.

broncosteven
08-24-2012, 01:28 PM
I enjoy watching the Tour de France, more because it is a travel log of the French country side. This won't make me stop watching just about every stage in the future.

Personally I can't imagine racing over a full month for 1500+ miles with only like 3 rest days and not dope.

They might as well go through and disallow the wins for all cyclists from the late 70's on.

I do wish they would focus on keeping the current competitors clean and compliant and not keep digging up the past.

They need to grow the sport, not tear it down.

Chris
08-24-2012, 04:30 PM
Article from the NYT http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/sports/cycling/armstrong-best-of-his-time-now-with-an-asterisk-george-vecsey.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp

Meck77
08-24-2012, 04:35 PM
I think it took a lot of ball for him to walk away from this.....

I see it completely opposite. If your back is against the wall and you feel you have no options the easy thing to do is back down. If you are truly innocent, have the resources to fight (he does), the ballsy approach is prove his innocence, take on his accusers, and win.

He could have sat on his yacht in obscure waters around the globe just cutting a monthly check to the blood sucking people known as attorneys.

He went from the top to being another *.

Mogulseeker
08-24-2012, 05:01 PM
It reminds me of the double amputee that competed in the Olympics. Complaints were filed, saying it was an unfair advantage. Really? Okay, here you go. Cut off your legs!

Peyton's bionic neck is going to be an advantage for us in the Super Bowl this year,

errand
08-24-2012, 05:28 PM
After passing EVERY drug test they ever did on him I think the French can go **** a frog.

Yeaah, because nobody has ever used PED's and passed drug tests....LOL

errand
08-24-2012, 05:36 PM
This. I dont understand how they can still be pursuing this after he took and passed "hundreds of drug tests over the 7 year period"

Do the math, just 100 tests is almost two tests a month.

Barry Bonds never failed a drug test...neither did Roger Clemens...just saying

errand
08-24-2012, 05:45 PM
Why does the USADA have such a grudge that they'd go out of their way to ruin Armstrong? Why would so many former teammates lie on the guy after he was such an inspiration to so many?

Roger Clemens wonders this too.....

Meck77
08-24-2012, 05:52 PM
Why does the USADA have such a grudge that they'd go out of their way to ruin Armstrong? Why would so many former teammates lie on the guy after he was such an inspiration to so many?

Why is a pigs ass pork?

errand
08-24-2012, 05:55 PM
When your capital is captured within a month of fighting, you honestly think the frenchies have any will to fight? if they aren't speaking German, they would be speaking either english or Russian.

I'm not going to say without the US the Russian would of beaten Germany. Without US support, the English would of fallen. Key resources in Africa would be been under Nazi control. The Russians have limited air force and Nazi's would of dominated the air. Nazi wouldn't be fighting a war on two fronts. US and English bombing raids slowed and halted many Nazi manufacturing and R&D facilities. Honestly, without the US, the Russians never had a chance.

not to mention the Lend lease act that enabled Allied nations to continue to fight against the Axis nations...even the Russians borrowed from us.

Mogulseeker
08-24-2012, 06:00 PM
Barry Bonds never failed a drug test...neither did Roger Clemens...just saying

Maybe... did they take drug tests?

There is a difference between passing and not failing.

I've never failed a doctoral advanced physics class in college. I must be a genius.

errand
08-24-2012, 06:05 PM
I honestly don't understand what you're trying to say.

Most people who invest, also work. Most people who invest don't make 30% on their investments.


Rule of 72...divide the number 72 by the return on your investment and the answer is how many years it takes to double your money. At 12% you'd double your money every 6 years....30% means you'd double it every 2.4 years.

errand
08-24-2012, 06:23 PM
Maybe... did they take drug tests?

There is a difference between passing and not failing.

I've never failed a doctoral advanced physics class in college. I must be a genius.

From an article I read -

We have every reason to believe that athletes can dope and get away with it. Consider the evidence. Barry Bonds never failed a drug test. Neither did Marion Jones. Numerous cyclists, from Floyd Landis to Tyler Hamilton, are confessed career dopers and were able to get away with doping for years.

There are plenty of PEDs for which there are no tests, or where the tests never seem to actually catch anyone. As Victor Conte recently pointed out, some PEDs are so fast-acting that they clear in a matter of hours – unless MLB wants to conduct surprise tests at 3:00 a.m., an athlete can use these drugs without fear of being caught. Conte thinks that 30-40% of baseball players are using PEDs, and while that’s obviously a wild guess, it’s a wild guess by an expert that knows a lot about the subject.


Personally I don't care...if these clowns wanna shrink their balls to hit a few more HR's or win a stupid bike race, good for them...I'll stay home and watch them do it scratching my normal sized balls. But PED's are used by many who are never caught.....and since it's so widespread these days what are the odds that Armstrong didn't use them?

DENVERDUI55
08-24-2012, 06:27 PM
Why does the USADA have such a grudge that they'd go out of their way to ruin Armstrong? Why would so many former teammates lie on the guy after he was such an inspiration to so many?

Who has ever said he teammates like Armstrong. Rumor has it he is an arrogant prick.

JPPT1974
08-24-2012, 06:29 PM
USDA wants to probably go after Lance due to being a celeb it seems. Well if they are wrong, they probably ruined his career for good.

Tom G
08-24-2012, 08:04 PM
It's not up to Armstrong to prove his innocence. How do you prove you didn't do something? It's up to the USDA to prove him guilty. They apparently can't. Shame on them. Bureaucrats run amock.

broncosteven
08-24-2012, 08:06 PM
On the subject of France, I wonder how many people make these statements without ever having been to the country. I was there last week and I go there with some regularity. There's certainly an obstinacy about French culture but I think the idea that they're somehow insulted an American won "their" tour is far fetched.

I could be wrong but it has been a while since a Frenchman has won "their" Tour, I know Vokler won a couple stages in July and he was fun to watch but he was no where near the lead time.

Meck77
08-24-2012, 08:07 PM
It's not up to Armstrong to prove his innocence. How do you prove you didn't do something? It's up to the USDA to prove him guilty. They apparently can't. Shame on them. Bureaucrats run amock.

You put pressure on him. He folded. That's how you prove it IMO.

Why would a guy hang it all up if he wasn't guilty? It just doesn't add up.

How you been Mr. G? Long time no see.

Tom G
08-24-2012, 08:15 PM
You put pressure on him. He folded. That's how you prove it IMO.

Why would a guy hang it all up if he wasn't guilty? It just doesn't add up.

How you been Mr. G? Long time no see.

Hi Meck. I lurk but the tone here gets pretty nasty at times. Too sensitive, I guess. But keep up the good work.

Wes Mantooth
08-24-2012, 08:56 PM
You put pressure on him. He folded. That's how you prove it IMO.

Why would a guy hang it all up if he wasn't guilty? It just doesn't add up.

How you been Mr. G? Long time no see.

because it costs money.

gyldenlove
08-24-2012, 08:58 PM
In cycling only the stupid cheaters get caught - every rider who has finished number 1 in the tour between 1996 and 2010 are known to have used PEDs by now, of those only 2 were caught during their active careers (Floyd Landis and Alberto Contador).

Bjarne Riis used EPO and blood doping but was never caught, Ulrich used EPO and blood doping but was never caught, Pantani used doping but was never caught although he was kicked out of the Giro for suspecious blood tests, Landis was caught during the tour, Contador is currently suspended for using PEDs. Sastre was never caught but raced for a team where PEDs were systematically used (ONCE) and were heavily involved with an italian doctor known for supplying doping to riders. Andy Schleck was never caught but his brother Frank was recently caught and the two are inseperable so if one did it the other will have done it as well.

No evidence I know of exists against Wiggins and Evans as of yet.

There is no doubt that in a clean sport Armstrong would have still won, he was a dominant rider and would have been even without the PEDs but it is doubtful he would have been able to compete against known cheaters if he had not used PEDs. His sudden decision to give up after having his attempts at injunctions fail in the courts seems to be an attempt at not having the details come out.

richpjr
08-24-2012, 09:15 PM
Virtually every single premier rider in the entire world is cheating. You simply cannot compete and recover fast enough without it. Why these organizations like to pretend they are mostly clean when they know they aren't is just idiotic.

wandlc
08-24-2012, 09:43 PM
The USADA told Hincapie he would not be allowed to compete anymore if he did not testify against Armstrong, the same with Horner. Landis and Hamilton had their own reasons.

BroncsCheer
08-24-2012, 09:57 PM
I see it completely opposite. If your back is against the wall and you feel you have no options the easy thing to do is back down. If you are truly innocent, have the resources to fight (he does), the ballsy approach is prove his innocence, take on his accusers, and win.

He could have sat on his yacht in obscure waters around the globe just cutting a monthly check to the blood sucking people known as attorneys.

He went from the top to being another *.

WHOOOOSH....