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Bacchus
08-21-2012, 06:38 PM
One of the best RBs in the NFL is available now!! Per Adam Schefter.

In light of Jaguars owner Shad Khan's recent public remarks, Jacksonville's RB Maurice Jones-Drew is now open to being traded, per source.

http://www.facebook.com/AdamSchefter


Offer a 1st and lets go win the SB!!

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 06:40 PM
Wow, I would be so excited having Jones Drew, Manning and McGhee. Wow, Denver would be very dominant on offense and Doom Vonwolfe would be sacking those QBs on defense.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 06:44 PM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/1012/20081012__20081013_C02_SP13FBNBESTWORST1~p1_200.JP G

spdirty
08-21-2012, 06:46 PM
A 1st for a running back in his 6th year? Pass...Offer a 3rd and Moreno and be done with it.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 06:46 PM
A must read article.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000052675/article/shad-khan-to-maurice-jonesdrew-train-is-leaving

razorwire77
08-21-2012, 06:46 PM
You know screw it, I'd be OK with that. This team has to be in a win now mindset. Roll with Willis/Pocket Hercules, Hillman and tell Moreno, Ball and whatever else scrub backs are on the team to piss off.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 06:47 PM
A 1st for a running back in his 6th year? Pass...Offer a 3rd and Moreno and be done with it.

His time table is better than Manning's. If Denver wants to win 2 SBs in the next 3 years they are going to have to do something drastic.

And he is a top 5 RB.

Kid A
08-21-2012, 06:47 PM
High pick for a RB? Entering his 7th year? Who wants a big payday? When we just spent a high pick on a RB with a similar build?

If this team makes a desperate moves "to get over the hump" it will be next year, when they better know what the biggest need is in the Peyton offense.

Chris
08-21-2012, 06:47 PM
I'm just going to see how many times Bacchus can reply to his own thread ;)

maven
08-21-2012, 06:48 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8290567/sources-holdout-jacksonville-jaguars-running-back-maurice-jones-drew-now-open-trade

Should the Broncos take a look?

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 06:50 PM
http://www.earthpm.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/noplanb.gif

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 06:50 PM
I'm just going to see how many times Bacchus can reply to his own thread ;)

lol.... i'M EXCITED. Denver would have the best offense in the NFl with Jones-Drew.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 06:53 PM
http://thereisnoplanb.net/images/no_plan_b_big_2.jpg

spdirty
08-21-2012, 06:54 PM
I think McGahee and Hillman could equal MJDs production this year.

Like a Mike Anderson/Tatum Bell in '05. Move along, if the price is a 1st he isn't worth it.

Mogulseeker
08-21-2012, 06:54 PM
Jones-Drew is an elite back, but I always put RBs as overvalued. Given what we'd have to do to bring him in, I don't want to do that. If we're going to give up a first day pick, and OG or LB would do just fine.

Mogulseeker
08-21-2012, 06:56 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=106671

MJD's name isn't in the title, so I don't blame you one bit.

errand
08-21-2012, 06:57 PM
Anytime you can upgrade your team, you do it...if we can acquired arguably one of the best RB's in the NFL, get him.

pricejj
08-21-2012, 07:01 PM
Bienemy recruited MJD to come to CU, but when Bienemy went to Cal, so did MJD...what could have been.

I heard Big Al talking about this subject on the radio earlier. MJD would be nice...kinda like TD in his prime.

Dude averaged 4.7 ypc last year...I'd think about it.

broncosteven
08-21-2012, 07:05 PM
I think McGahee and Hillman could equal MJDs production this year.

Like a Mike Anderson/Tatum Bell in '05. Move along, if the price is a 1st he isn't worth it.

I would like to see Hillman play in a game 1st. Week 2 and still nothing from him, I wonder if they don't try to move him to PS.

With the mind set of win now I would at least offer the 3rd and Moreno for him as mentioned above but I would be willing to give up a 2nd round pick if they wanted it. Only real problem is finding the money to pay MGD. He would be a great asset to the team, would be great catching passes out of the backfield and if Willis goes down like he did last year MGD could carry the load.

I would love to see this happen but I don't think it will.

We will likely have to watch KM dance his way around the back field for KNo gain rather than watch MGD take it to the house from 65 out.

rbackfactory80
08-21-2012, 07:08 PM
Absolutely not.

It's funny but Denver has been 1 piece away for the past decade. Don't mortgage our future more than it already has been.

Don't need another RB in such a pass heavy system.

Mogulseeker
08-21-2012, 07:10 PM
Absolutely not.

It's funny but Denver has been 1 piece away for the past decade. Don't mortgage our future more than it already has been.

Don't need another RB in such a pass heavy system.

Just to play devil's advocate here, MJD is a perfect fit for Manning - one of, if not the best blocking and pass-catching back in the game.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 07:11 PM
Absolutely not.

It's funny but Denver has been 1 piece away for the past decade. Don't mortgage our future more than it already has been.

Don't need another RB in such a pass heavy system.

Don't mortgage our future?? You do realize Denver paid $96 million to a QB that 3-5 years left which is about how much time Jones-Drew has.

He led the NFL in rushing last year.

John Elway told Manning that the reason he won two SBs is because Denver got Terrell Davis. AND he promised Manning he would get him that same running game.

Well boys, here it is.

Besides 1/2 of all 1st round picks flame out anyway.

Denver owes it to Manning to TRY to go get this guy. They have to try.

rbackfactory80
08-21-2012, 07:13 PM
Just to play devil's advocate here, MJD is a perfect fit for Manning - one of, if not the best blocking and pass-catching back in the game.

Yes he is a good back, everyone knows that. Not the piece to put this team over the top.

rbackfactory80
08-21-2012, 07:14 PM
Don't mortgage our future?? You do realize Denver paid $96 million to a QB that 3-5 years left which is about how much time Jones-Drew has.

He led the NFL in rushing last year.

John Elway told Manning that the reason he won two SBs is because Denver got Terrell Davis. AND he promised Manning he would get him that same running game.

Well boys, here it is.

Besides 1/2 of all 1st round picks flame out anyway.

Denver owes it to Manning to TRY to go get this guy. They have to try.

Did you read the part where I said more than it already was?

Guess not

Not the right guy!

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2012, 07:14 PM
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8290567/sources-holdout-jacksonville-jaguars-running-back-maurice-jones-drew-now-open-trade

Should the Broncos take a look?

Sure, because having two old RBs is better than having one old RB? Seriously, why don't we see how Hillman pans out before we trade away a 1st round pick for a RB on the downside of his career.

razorwire77
08-21-2012, 07:15 PM
I think some people fail to grasp how utterly screwed this team is if Willis gets hurt for any significant time. Honestly, it's time to stop dicking around and get an elite back to help Manning out. MJD 1A and Willis McGahee as 1B would be deadly.

For the record I think Hillman will be an excellent speed back, but we're at preseason game # 3 and he's yet to take the field. Moreno combines the elusiveness of Sammy Winder and the power of Gerald Willhite, with a sprinkle of injury prone and criminal behavior sprinkled in. Ball is a special teams player and the rest of these guys wouldn't make a practice squad on any other team in the league.

For this to work, Denver has to play with leads and pound the ball when necessary. We're not going to win with a 36-year-old QB throwing the ball 45 or 50 times a game.

Simply Red
08-21-2012, 07:16 PM
THIS IS A BRAND NEW REVELATION!!!

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2012, 07:17 PM
Not sure I'd trade a 1st for MJD. Wonder if the Jags would want DJ Williams instead?

broncosteven
08-21-2012, 07:19 PM
Yes he is a good back, everyone knows that. Not the piece to put this team over the top.

We need an MLB BAD but landing MGD would allow us to grind out games and play clock.

I would love to see it happen but I doubt it will. He will likely end up just sitting out a couple weeks of the season then end up going back before it impacts his retirement or what ever it is that gets impacted.

rbackfactory80
08-21-2012, 07:19 PM
I think some people fail to grasp how utterly screwed this team is if Willis gets hurt for any significant time. Honestly, it's time to stop dicking around and get an elite back to help Manning out. MJD 1A and Willis McGahee as 1B would be deadly.

For the record I think Hillman will be an excellent speed back, but we're at preseason game # 3 and he's yet to take the field. Moreno combines the elusiveness of Sammy Winder and the power of Gerald Willhite, with a sprinkle of injury prone and criminal behavior sprinkled in. Ball is a special teams player and the rest of these guys wouldn't make a practice squad on any other team in the league.

For this to work, Denver has to play with leads and pound the ball when necessary. We're not going to win with a 36-year-old QB throwing the ball 45 or 50 times a game.



Sometimes I question if you guys actually watch the NFL or if you just sit around and theorize about it without seeing it.

This offense makes it so you don't have to have the best back in the league. The defense respects the pass and that is why the backs have high per carry average. Manning spreads defenses out. Average backs look great taking the occasional hand-off for nice gains.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 07:20 PM
We need an MLB BAD but landing MGD would allow us to grind out games and play clock.

I would love to see it happen but I doubt it will. He will likely end up just sitting out a couple weeks of the season then end up going back before it impacts his retirement or what ever it is that gets impacted.

Bet you he ends up with the Jets or Giants.

Why should Denver let the Giants get Drew thus making them the SB favorites. I think they have won enough SBs lately.

tsiguy96
08-21-2012, 07:21 PM
notice it said MJD is open to being traded, not that the jags are open to trading him.

anyway...
@realfreemancbs
I'm told, specifically, that for the moment, no (expletive deleted) way the Jaguars are trading MJD.

edit:
posted about 30s ago, relevant (but i dont think for us)
@JasonColeYahoo
Several teams are circling MJD-Jags situation to see if a trade might happen. If this gets any uglier, have to think there's a chance.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 07:22 PM
Sometimes I question if you guys actually watch the NFL or if you just sit around and theorize about it without seeing it.

This offense makes it so you don't have to have the best back in the league. The defense respects the pass and that is why the backs have high per carry average. Manning spreads defenses out. Average backs look great taking the occasional hand-off for nice gains.

Ok, now put the best back in the NFL behind Manning and what do you have??

Teams would actually pile the LOS to stop the run leaving Manning with easy pickings all day long!

enjolras
08-21-2012, 07:23 PM
There is a lot of risk with him. You're going to give up a LOT to get him, and he's carried the ball a CRAZY number of times the last few years. When does he break down?

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2012, 07:24 PM
There is a lot of risk with him. You're going to give up a LOT to get him, and he's carried the ball a CRAZY number of times the last few years. When does he break down?

let me answer this for you: right after he signs a mega deal, that's when.

TheChamp24
08-21-2012, 07:25 PM
Yeah, sure, lets throw draft picks and money at a position we don't need, when we have an unproven, highly picked rookie in the mix.
Lets just forget how awful we looked against the run, how our LB's are "trash" aside from Von Miller. How our depth on the OL is garbage.
The Saints have Pierre Thomas, Darren Sproles, Mark Ingram and Chris Ivory. Most likely one of them will be cut, probably Ivory. Not a bad RB pickup if needed.
Personally, I think we are fine at RB, as long as we cut Ball.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 07:25 PM
There is a lot of risk with him. You're going to give up a LOT to get him, and he's carried the ball a CRAZY number of times the last few years. When does he break down?

He breaks down four years from now when Manning does. He led the NFL in rushing last year so I think we are pretty safe in saying he has three years left.

Can we get some Meth Jones-Drew karma?

rbackfactory80
08-21-2012, 07:25 PM
Ok, now put the best back in the NFL behind Manning and what do you have??

Teams would actually pile the LOS to stop the run leaving Manning with easy pickings all day long!


GTFOOH

Teams stack the line and leave the receivers one on one?? Not to one of the best passers the NFL has ever seen. I don't care if Barry Sanders is back there. Manning is gonna be Manning.

MacG will have a huge year.

broncosteven
08-21-2012, 07:26 PM
Bet you he ends up with the Jets or Giants.

Why should Denver let the Giants get Drew thus making them the SB favorites. I think they have won enough SBs lately.

Belly would find a way to trade for him, he would probably end up with MGD and the Jag's 1st round pick the way he pulls off trades.

I don't really think he is going anywhere. When the Jags announce it and the trade is done then I will believe it. I would love to have him though.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 07:27 PM
GTFOOH

Teams stack the line and leave the receivers one on one?? Not to one of the best passers the NFL has ever seen. I don't care if Barry Sanders is back there. Manning is gonna be Manning.

Than Jones will rush for 2,000 yards.

He ran for over 1,600 yards last year with Blaine Gabbert at QB! He also averaged 4.7 YPC.

rbackfactory80
08-21-2012, 07:29 PM
Than Jones will rush for 2,000 yards.

He ran for over 1,600 yards last year with Blaine Gabbert at QB! He also averaged 4.7 YPC.

I love MJD. Problem is he is a Luxury. First rounder has to be spent on a position of need. We have plenty positions of need on the defensive side of the ball.

McDman
08-21-2012, 07:31 PM
I'm sure he is open to a trade but are the Jags? Probably not.

Tim
08-21-2012, 07:32 PM
He is worth a 1st in my book. Id value him above any other rb in the league right now cause the 1-2 guys that are better than him cant stay healthy like he does.

Dukes
08-21-2012, 07:36 PM
I'm all in. Do it Elway.

broncosteven
08-21-2012, 07:46 PM
I love MJD. Problem is he is a Luxury. First rounder has to be spent on a position of need. We have plenty positions of need on the defensive side of the ball.

when you think about it we really only need to find a stud MLB next year, I think our DL will be much better with the Methhound pick and Uriein(SP?) showing flashes.

If we give up a 2nd and maybe a low 2014 pick or package KM somehow we could still find an MLB next year and have some flexibility to move up and get a guy or stay put and fill a hole or draft a BPA in the other rounds. If you think about it outside of LB the next draft could be the BPA draft we need to get some playmakers.

The more I think about it the more I think we should move KM, it would give him a fresh start and give up some value in return. The dude hasn't looked very good so far in the PS. Unless they are hiding some great plays they are going to use him in the passing game that they haven't shown. I don't think KM is going to suddenly turn into a patient RB with great vision who makes one cut and is gone. He likes to dance and get bit by turf monsters and stuff.

razorwire77
08-21-2012, 07:50 PM
Sometimes I question if you guys actually watch the NFL or if you just sit around and theorize about it without seeing it.

This offense makes it so you don't have to have the best back in the league. The defense respects the pass and that is why the backs have high per carry average. Manning spreads defenses out. Average backs look great taking the occasional hand-off for nice gains.

I watch a ton of football. . . as much as anybody here. The Denver Manning offense is not going to be the exact same offense as the Indy Manning offense. Yes, we'll see the the no-huddle and the crossing routes and the stretch plays when a defense drops 7 or 8 into coverage, but Peyton isn't going to be able to rip the ball 40, 45, 50 times per game anymore. Particularly early in the season, he's going to have to rely more on the running game than he ever has before. Even Fox has talked about how the running game is going to be emphasized more, even with some two RB sets. And to be honest, after Willis we don't even have "average" backs on the roster. We have an unknown rookie 3rd round draft pick, Saucy and camp fodder.

Broncobiv
08-21-2012, 08:02 PM
It's true...after McGahee, we have very little in terms of reliable, skillful RB's. Sure, there are guys that have shown flashes here and there, but every team has those. We have no idea what Hillman is capable of.

MJD is a freaking stud, plain and simple. He's one of my favorite RB's. But as others have said, he would be a very expensive luxury. Is he worth it, with so many other positions of need? I don't know...but I don't see any stud LB's or safeties being offered up for trade at the moment (not saying that MJD is even available). But what I do know is that having Manning and MJD lining up together in the same backfield would be SICK! And if Demaryius develops into what I think he's capable of, finally pairing some receiving skill with his already freakish athletic ability...Jesus we would have half of the AFC Pro Bowl offensive starters lining up for us on every possession!

broncosteven
08-21-2012, 08:05 PM
It's true...after McGahee, we have very little in terms of reliable, skillful RB's. Sure, there are guys that have shown flashes here and there, but every team has those. We have no idea what Hillman is capable of.

MJD is a freaking stud, plain and simple. He's one of my favorite RB's. But as others have said, he would be a very expensive luxury. Is he worth it, with so many other positions of need? I don't know...but I don't see any stud LB's or safeties being offered up for trade at the moment (not saying that MJD is even available). But what I do know is that having Manning and MJD lining up together in the same backfield would be SICK! And if Demaryius develops into what I think he's capable of, finally pairing some receiving skill with his already freakish athletic ability...Jesus we would have half of the AFC Pro Bowl offensive starters lining up for us on every possession!

It would be like the AFC version of duh bears!

Oh what could have been if Bowlen didn't fire Shanny...

LOL

mwill07
08-21-2012, 08:11 PM
I'm down with this.

I know it's cliche', but MJD could rip off 2k in our system. And I mean that, as sincerely as possible.

GreatBronco16
08-21-2012, 08:16 PM
Sorry if this has been said. But we could get him for Tebow straight up.....................................if we still had him.ROFL!

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-21-2012, 08:16 PM
They will not trade him away. I haven't seen anywhere of him saying he refuses to play for the jags. Being "open for a trade" and "I refuse to play for this team" are two different situations.

GreatBronco16
08-21-2012, 08:18 PM
They will not trade him away. I haven't seen anywhere of him saying he refuses to play for the jags. Being "open for a trade" and "I refuse to play for this team" are two different situations.

Him coming out and saying that he is open for a trade is a nice way of saying, get me the hell out of here.

Requiem
08-21-2012, 08:22 PM
If there is an opportunity to acquire a player like Maurice Jones-Drew to upgrade your team, you do it. Jones-Drew would be a great fit here and would put our offense into one of the top echelons in the NFL. Him and Peyton have a potential of several great seasons ahead of them and would work well together. McGahee was a pleasant surprise for us last season, but he is thirty years old. Though he saved some mileage on his tires when Ray Rice became the man with the Ravens, half of his career has had a YPC average under 4.0 -- with two seasons being outliers that improve his career average barely past that mark. I don't think we will see McGahee put up those kind of numbers again this year. However, those two getting the majority of the rushing action would be just nasty. That would be an incredible running back duo, perhaps the best in the NFL.

I think that when you consider the following ideas on the running situation in Denver:


McGahee's age and the strong likelihood he won't keep repeating last years efforts
That even if Knowshon makes the team this year, he probably isn't going to be on the roster with the cap number he carries on the following season (I believe it's ~ 3.5 million), and unless he balls out I don't see him sticking around on club option come 2015
Hillman could turn out to be a great player (and is a great fit for Denver), but he hasn't had any pre-season action yet as a rookie and has a lingering hammy injury
Gives us an excuse to get rid of Lance Ball and the rest of the camp fodder


Not to mention that Jones-Drew is going to give you a Pro-Bowl caliber player at the position who has been durable in his NFL career. Hopefully Jack Del Rio goes up to John Elway and tells him that he would be the addition that puts this team over the top. These type of guys don't hit free agency. I know we have other needs on the team, but you make the call and see what they want for him in the first place.

Would I give up a first-rounder? Yep. MJD would have more of an impact than likely any rookie that would be at the bottom quarter of round one. However, I doubt just one first-rounder does it. Just imagine something like this for the next couple of years.

Maurice Jones Drew (27 years old)
Willis McGahee (30 years old)
Ronnie Hillman (20 years old)

Then at some point in time down the road (after McGahee is gone) get another strong inside runner who can get tough yards. Keep a cycle going and keep an area strong. Seriously, it's a John Fox team. You have to have good depth and quality at running back. McGahee-Moreno or McGahee-Hillman or any duo or trio you can come up with doesn't match what Stewart and Williams could do in Carolina, IMHO. I think it's a position on offense where we have potential on now, but is still pretty average.

We can do better. Acquiring Jones-Drew would be tremendous.

Archer81
08-21-2012, 08:24 PM
Would depend on what Jacksonville wanted in return, but that would be pretty awesome. Especially if the deal is cap friendly for Denver. Could do worse than MJD, McGahee and Hillman behind Peanut Head.

:Broncos:

MagicHef
08-21-2012, 08:28 PM
Do it.

Ronnie Tsunami
08-21-2012, 08:29 PM
Maybe Jones-Drew can the Terrell Davis Peyton needs....

Simply Red
08-21-2012, 08:31 PM
Do it.

negative rep.

bowtown
08-21-2012, 08:34 PM
Wish we could trade Teebs again.

MagicHef
08-21-2012, 08:42 PM
negative rep.

Hey, are you lurking at CP at all? Pretty hilarious over there today.

Lestat
08-21-2012, 08:47 PM
no, no, no, you do not trade a 1st for MJD and fork over a new contract.
a 2nd maybe, more than likely a 3rd, a player and another pick but not a 1st.

yerner
08-21-2012, 08:48 PM
a couple 2nds? kind of comparable to the marshall compensation?

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 08:57 PM
a couple 2nds? kind of comparable to the marshall compensation?

Really? I would rather give up a 1st than two seconds. I'm not sure what the value chart says but it just seems 2 picks are better than one. Especially when 1/2 of the number ones do not even pan out.

Simply Red
08-21-2012, 08:59 PM
Hey, are you lurking at CP at all? Pretty hilarious over there today.

A little, it's pretty pathetic someone would stoop that low and then try to bow back onto the site.

DBroncos4life
08-21-2012, 09:03 PM
Hey, are you lurking at CP at all? Pretty hilarious over there today.

What happened?

FireFly
08-21-2012, 09:10 PM
I'd do it. There is no plan B

Simply Red
08-21-2012, 09:13 PM
What happened?

I'll answer since Hef is currently banging 11 playboy bunnies.

A member of the mod team's Business facebook page was fraudedededed all up, said accused kept denying and denying, suddenly IT savvy administrator links emails and IP's and such to denying poster. It was silly and far too serious to have carried over into real life, but I guess it did. Oh CP...

Heyneck
08-21-2012, 09:22 PM
2nd for a workhorse rb entering his 7th year plus a player would do it for me! 1st is too high for a rb with so much mileage.

MagicHef
08-21-2012, 09:30 PM
What happened?

www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=262640

OBF1
08-21-2012, 10:07 PM
I just read the first page and my head is spinning...

MDJ is a freak...Not like a single player on this team. He is fast, runs hard, makes people miss and can run over would be tacklers AND he has great hands and can catch a bost load of passes from Manning. Do not forget to mention he can block like no ones business, just ask a juiced up Merriman.

There were a couple knuckleheads that said he is not worth a first round pick.... SERIOUS??? We wasted the #12 overall pick on slowshon marino and an 18th overall on Ayers. With a straight face I need those same posters to tell me MDJ is not worth more than either of those 2 clowns.

We need this kind of player on the team... BUT his price tag might just be more than we can afford at this time cap wise.

Sign me up for the "Get him at almost any cost" side of the argument.

yerner
08-21-2012, 10:28 PM
Really? I would rather give up a 1st than two seconds. I'm not sure what the value chart says but it just seems 2 picks are better than one. Especially when 1/2 of the number ones do not even pan out.

i just figure it would require multiple picks. if you're dealing mjd you probably want a package.

BroncoBeavis
08-21-2012, 10:31 PM
I just read the first page and my head is spinning...

MDJ is a freak...Not like a single player on this team. He is fast, runs hard, makes people miss and can run over would be tacklers AND he has great hands and can catch a bost load of passes from Manning. Do not forget to mention he can block like no ones business, just ask a juiced up Merriman.

There were a couple knuckleheads that said he is not worth a first round pick.... SERIOUS??? We wasted the #12 overall pick on slowshon marino and an 18th overall on Ayers. With a straight face I need those same posters to tell me MDJ is not worth more than either of those 2 clowns.

We need this kind of player on the team... BUT his price tag might just be more than we can afford at this time cap wise.

Sign me up for the "Get him at almost any cost" side of the argument.

I think you're right on MJD's value. If they're serious about moving him, they'll get at least a 1st for him. I guess unless he's only got a year left on his contract or something.

I don't think he's the right fit for our situation though. I'm just not sure how cost effective it is to put an elite stud RB behind Peyton Manning. It would be fun to see, but hard to justify.

KevinJames
08-21-2012, 10:31 PM
Yes do it, MJD is worth a late first 25-32 for sure :strong:

Pound for pound dude is the toughest player in the NFL.

Oh and I know Incarcerated Bob is a douche bag but he was right about Manning check out his latest tweet.

"**BREAKING NFL NEWS**Source: Teams have started calling Jags about the availability of MJD so far Broncos seem the most interested #IBN"

again its a ICB rumor so take it how you want it.

also

"Broncos called asked about availability, nothing more right now. Sources in Broncos front office say they will be involved "

tsiguy96
08-21-2012, 10:39 PM
Yes do it, MJD is worth a late first 25-32 for sure :strong:

Pound for pound dude is the toughest player in the NFL.

Oh and I know Incarcerated Bob is a douche bag but he was right about Manning check out his latest tweet.

"**BREAKING NFL NEWS**Source: Teams have started calling Jags about the availability of MJD so far Broncos seem the most interested #IBN"

again its a ICB rumor so take it how you want it.

also

"Broncos called asked about availability, nothing more right now. Sources in Broncos front office say they will be involved "


when he got the peyton thing right, a large amount of the media was predicting denver. he pronounced it as done before it actually was, when all signs pointed to denver. hes made a lot of predictions that were dead wrong too.

broncolife
08-21-2012, 10:47 PM
Hmmm

Since alot of people think Manning is going to only play 3 years. What would give us a better chance at winning in the next 3 years

MJD for a late 1st or no trade.

This year
MJD or no MJD

Next year
MJD or a rookie

Next year after that
MJD or a 1 year player still developing

If we are playing to win now I think this would be a great move to get MJD.

DBroncos4life
08-21-2012, 10:53 PM
Yes do it, MJD is worth a late first 25-32 for sure :strong:

Pound for pound dude is the toughest player in the NFL.

Oh and I know Incarcerated Bob is a douche bag but he was right about Manning check out his latest tweet.

"**BREAKING NFL NEWS**Source: Teams have started calling Jags about the availability of MJD so far Broncos seem the most interested #IBN"

again its a ICB rumor so take it how you want it.

also

"Broncos called asked about availability, nothing more right now. Sources in Broncos front office say they will be involved "
That trade would make the O pretty damn good, though I know how much people love to bitch about the draft so....

tsiguy96
08-21-2012, 10:59 PM
not sure if he provides a huge production increase over willis and our other RBs (specifically hillman if he pans out at all)

broncocalijohn
08-21-2012, 11:01 PM
I'm just going to see how many times Bacchus can reply to his own thread ;)

Seems he is re-incarnated as Mock. I swear someone else used to do that too.

Raiders would offer 2 first round draft picks and then they remembered they don't have much, in that department, to offer.

Mogulseeker
08-21-2012, 11:07 PM
Seems he is re-incarnated as Mock. I swear someone else used to do that too.

Raiders would offer 2 first round draft picks and then they remembered they don't have much, in that department, to offer.

Do the Raiders even have two 1sts over the next two years?

It seems like they pissed a lot away for Palmer.

Houshyamama
08-21-2012, 11:23 PM
not sure if he provides a huge production increase over willis and our other RBs (specifically hillman if he pans out at all)

wat

Punisher
08-22-2012, 12:57 AM
Don't tease me

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 02:21 AM
Seems he is re-incarnated as Mock. I swear someone else used to do that too.

Raiders would offer 2 first round draft picks and then they remembered they don't have much, in that department, to offer.

Mock? is that good?

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 02:32 AM
Who needs Jones-Drew more than Denver?
1. Jets
2. Giants
3. Packers
4. Pats
5. Dolphins
6. Bengals
7. Lions
8. Saints
9. Indianapolis

That is a lot of competition.

mwill07
08-22-2012, 02:55 AM
Who needs Jones-Drew more than Denver?
1. Jets
2. Giants
3. Packers
4. Pats
5. Dolphins
6. Bengals
7. Lions
8. Saints
9. Indianapolis

That is a lot of competition.

If i'm Detroit, no way I'm not getting this deal done. They need him more than we do.

Blueflame
08-22-2012, 03:31 AM
Mock? is that good?

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii73/dmajorfifth/0426082252a.jpg

Psycho-cat-stare is 25x more intense than a Bert stare. :P

(Mock aka watermock has the 2nd most posts on this forum).

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 03:39 AM
If i'm Detroit, no way I'm not getting this deal done. They need him more than we do.

If the Pats, Giants or Packers get him gameover just give them the Lombardi.

OrangeCrush2724
08-22-2012, 03:41 AM
I agree with "we are in win now mode," but we already have some decent production there at RB. Would it not be better to dangle our 1st rounder for a RT, DT, MLB? RT would improve our run game drastically and allow Manning to carve the defense. Just a thought...

NUB
08-22-2012, 04:05 AM
I had running-back listed as a need pre-draft and still do. I would think about how healthy Denver's running game really is. Tebow manufactured a lot of yards last year, both by himself and by his presence in the option. Not enough people take that into account when they talk about the run game. Factor in the age and untested youth and Denver's run game could easily be a trainwreck by mid-season, an offensive sputtering-out, if you will, not unlike the consistently crap performance of the defensive line as it heads down the back stretch. MJD is also about as complimentary a back as you can get for Peyton Manning. I doubt Denver can swing him into town for cheap, but Elway and co. should have their eyes peeled, IMO.

extralife
08-22-2012, 04:06 AM
guys

it ain't even a question of MJD's being a luxury for us given our pretty decent backfield, it's a question of the cash. yeah, MJD is an upgrade at the position, but even if you can convince people that upgrade is worth a pick or two, you aren't going to convince them that it's worth a pick or two plus 25 million guaranteed

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 04:08 AM
guys

it ain't even a question of MJD's being a luxury for us given our pretty decent backfield, it's a question of the cash. yeah, MJD is an upgrade at the position, but even if you can convince people that upgrade is worth a pick or two, you aren't going to convince them that it's worth a pick or two plus 25 million guaranteed

4 year deal at $30 million with $18 million guaranteed is what I figure. Gitter done!!!

extralife
08-22-2012, 04:09 AM
you'll also note the Jags have said **** all. MJD says he'd be "open to a trade" and all of a sudden the mane is convinced he's out the door. it's probably all part of the media BS the agent and the owner seem to be going through, anyway. just a ploy.

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 04:21 AM
you'll also note the Jags have said **** all. MJD says he'd be "open to a trade" and all of a sudden the mane is convinced he's out the door. it's probably all part of the media BS the agent and the owner seem to be going through, anyway. just a ploy.

Well, it's not just the Mane. Heard on the radio that the Broncos have stated they are interested in him so there is smoke lets see if there is a fire.

Ray Finkle
08-22-2012, 04:43 AM
Mock? is that good?

It is both an honor and a poke in the eye to be called Mock like.


Mock had the great ability to enrage you (while probably laughing at the fact the he did enrage you) and make you laugh at the same time.

The Joker
08-22-2012, 05:20 AM
Jones-Drew would be a massive upgrade on McGahee and would be about as perfect a weapon for Manning as we could ask for, if this is at all a possibility the Broncos need to pursue it.

He'd also be a perfect player for Hillman to try and learn from and hopefully ultimately succeed as our number one back in a few years, while in the meantime being a devastating change of pace guy.

Unfortunately though I think this all just posturing from both sides and Jones Drew will end up signing an extension there in the coming weeks. If I were him I'd be pushing to get out though, he can't have more than three or four years left and if he wants to get a ring he won't do it in Jacksonville.

Beantown Bronco
08-22-2012, 05:37 AM
DJ + Moreno.....maybe throw in a conditional 6th to even it out.

:)

socalorado
08-22-2012, 05:48 AM
Yes do it, MJD is worth a late first 25-32 for sure :strong:

Pound for pound dude is the toughest player in the NFL.

Oh and I know Incarcerated Bob is a douche bag but he was right about Manning check out his latest tweet.

"**BREAKING NFL NEWS**Source: Teams have started calling Jags about the availability of MJD so far Broncos seem the most interested #IBN"

again its a ICB rumor so take it how you want it.

also

"Broncos called asked about availability, nothing more right now. Sources in Broncos front office say they will be involved "

Thats awesome! Do it!

socalorado
08-22-2012, 05:51 AM
wat

Hilarious!

MagicHef
08-22-2012, 06:22 AM
I agree with "we are in win now mode," but we already have some decent production there at RB. Would it not be better to dangle our 1st rounder for a RT, DT, MLB? RT would improve our run game drastically and allow Manning to carve the defense. Just a thought...

No. An RB like MJD would have an effect far greater than any of those positions. The only comparable situation that I can think of would be if Fitzgerald suddenly became available.

Bmore Manning
08-22-2012, 06:27 AM
If there is an opportunity to acquire a player like Maurice Jones-Drew to upgrade your team, you do it. Jones-Drew would be a great fit here and would put our offense into one of the top echelons in the NFL. Him and Peyton have a potential of several great seasons ahead of them and would work well together. McGahee was a pleasant surprise for us last season, but he is thirty years old. Though he saved some mileage on his tires when Ray Rice became the man with the Ravens, half of his career has had a YPC average under 4.0 -- with two seasons being outliers that improve his career average barely past that mark. I don't think we will see McGahee put up those kind of numbers again this year. However, those two getting the majority of the rushing action would be just nasty. That would be an incredible running back duo, perhaps the best in the NFL.

I think that when you consider the following ideas on the running situation in Denver:


McGahee's age and the strong likelihood he won't keep repeating last years efforts
That even if Knowshon makes the team this year, he probably isn't going to be on the roster with the cap number he carries on the following season (I believe it's ~ 3.5 million), and unless he balls out I don't see him sticking around on club option come 2015
Hillman could turn out to be a great player (and is a great fit for Denver), but he hasn't had any pre-season action yet as a rookie and has a lingering hammy injury
Gives us an excuse to get rid of Lance Ball and the rest of the camp fodder


Not to mention that Jones-Drew is going to give you a Pro-Bowl caliber player at the position who has been durable in his NFL career. Hopefully Jack Del Rio goes up to John Elway and tells him that he would be the addition that puts this team over the top. These type of guys don't hit free agency. I know we have other needs on the team, but you make the call and see what they want for him in the first place.

Would I give up a first-rounder? Yep. MJD would have more of an impact than likely any rookie that would be at the bottom quarter of round one. However, I doubt just one first-rounder does it. Just imagine something like this for the next couple of years.

Maurice Jones Drew (27 years old)
Willis McGahee (30 years old)
Ronnie Hillman (20 years old)

Then at some point in time down the road (after McGahee is gone) get another strong inside runner who can get tough yards. Keep a cycle going and keep an area strong. Seriously, it's a John Fox team. You have to have good depth and quality at running back. McGahee-Moreno or McGahee-Hillman or any duo or trio you can come up with doesn't match what Stewart and Williams could do in Carolina, IMHO. I think it's a position on offense where we have potential on now, but is still pretty average.

We can do better. Acquiring Jones-Drew would be tremendous.

This is an outstanding post, it conveys exactly how I feel.

Ironically I suggested this type of move a few months ago on here for a younger almost identical type of back in Matt Forte. And I was told I was building a dream team or to turn Madden off, yet many like this idea... Funny

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-22-2012, 06:27 AM
He's had nearly 1000 carries over the last three years alone.

If we could get him for Knowshow and a 3rd, I'd be thrilled. A first and fourth? Too much, IMO.

orinjkrush
08-22-2012, 06:32 AM
a proven elite talent for an unknown first round possibility (e.g. Moreno or Ayers or Lelie or you name it)?

do it. do it now. do it hard and fast. do it over and over and over again.

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 06:32 AM
Would love this pickup, finally an acquisition that makes sense on th Mane

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 06:36 AM
not sure if he provides a huge production increase over willis and our other RBs (specifically hillman if he pans out at all)

lol

MJD is still a top 5 back, he's carried that pathetic jags team for years. Add onto that Willis' age and lack of catching out of the backfield, MJD and WM would be a deadly 1-2 punch

Ball, Moreno, and the other scrubs couldn't hold MJD's jock

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 06:59 AM
And what better way to ease manning back into a full NFL season than by giving him an elite bruising RB who has a proven ability to carry the load. As previously mentioned, if mcgahee goes down for any significant amount of time, we're screwed in the backfield.

It's a long shot that Jacksonville even goes through with this, but with the way we've been wasting 1st round picks lately, I'd give up a late 1st rounder for MJD in a heartbeat (the only 1st rounder worth a crap to us lately was cutler and now chi is reaping those rewards)

And lmao at everyone worrying about contract $$$ and such, grab another cold one from the fridge and let the professionals figure it out

BroncoBeavis
08-22-2012, 07:12 AM
This is an outstanding post, it conveys exactly how I feel.

Ironically I suggested this type of move a few months ago on here for a younger almost identical type of back in Matt Forte. And I was told I was building a dream team or to turn Madden off, yet many like this idea... Funny

Telling you to turn Madden off doesn't necessarily mean they don't like the idea. Just that they don't think it's realistic.

And some people aren't sure it's great to make a huge investment in an Elite RB nearing the end of his productive years while there are so many questions on our OL's runblock ability.

For what you'd pay for MJD you could make several significant upgrades to OL for the next few years. And that helps Peyton and the running game at the same time.

LRtagger
08-22-2012, 07:14 AM
Do it

http://i.qkme.me/361nzs.jpg

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 07:26 AM
For what you'd pay for MJD you could make several significant upgrades to OL for the next few years. And that helps Peyton and the running game at the same time.

Yes, but who is going to run the ball? Willis is 30, Knowshon sucks, hillman hasn't seen the field, and we traded tebow to NY

socalorado
08-22-2012, 07:32 AM
Yes, but who is going to run the ball? Willis is 30, Knowshon sucks, hillman hasn't seen the field, and we traded tebow to NY

And Pocket Hecules catches outta the backfield, and can block in pass protect better than any of the current RBs on the DEN roster.
He would play a ton and cause all kinds of problems for opposing defenses, all the while making the O-line better by simply being a superior runner, and helping in the pass protection schemes for Manning.
MJD would be a monster upgrade.
Hell, give JAX a 1st and Slowshon and Ball.

MJD,McGahee,Hillman,Omon is plenty.

BroncoBeavis
08-22-2012, 07:38 AM
Yes, but who is going to run the ball? Willis is 30, Knowshon sucks, hillman hasn't seen the field, and we traded tebow to NY

Might be some growing pains there this year but I think we have to think beyond this year towards next. We can't fix the OL this year either. Both will need to be addressed before we're title-ready imho. But you can't just bring in top 5 free-agent talent at every position of need. You run out of cap in a hurry.

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 07:39 AM
And Pocket Hecules catches outta the backfield, and can block in pass protect better than any of the current RBs on the DEN roster.
He would play a ton and cause all kinds of problems for opposing defenses, all the while making the O-line better by simply being a superior runner, and helping in the pass protection schemes for Manning.
MJD would be a monster upgrade.
.

Yup, all of this

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 07:41 AM
Might be some growing pains there this year but I think we have to think beyond this year towards next. We can't fix the OL this year either. Both will need to be addressed before we're title-ready imho. But you can't just bring in top 5 free-agent talent at every position of need. You run out of cap in a hurry.

I guess that explains signing Peyton manning

And, I don't care about the salary cap, let's win some ****ing championships

O-line talent is far less of a concern than RB depth. We have a QB who can release the ball in less than 3-4 seconds now and we had the #1 rushing attack last season. The line will be fine

2KBack
08-22-2012, 07:41 AM
Yes, but who is going to run the ball? Willis is 30, Knowshon sucks, hillman hasn't seen the field, and we traded tebow to NY

Running back is a significantly devalued position. Beavis is right, the resources that would go into acquiring and keeping MJD could go towards more important positions. There is never a shortage of effective runners to be had every year in the 3-4th rounds.

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 07:44 AM
Running back is a significantly devalued position. Beavis is right, the resources that would go into acquiring and keeping MJD could go towards more important positions. There is never a shortage of effective runners to be had every year in the 3-4th rounds.

And how many of those guys are capable of providing the MAJORITY of their teams offense for consecutive seasons while being an elite running and pass catching threat out of the backfield

You cannot draft a player like MJD, and if by some chance you do it will be a top 5 pick or just sheer luck

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-22-2012, 07:46 AM
I love the idea of MJD... just not for a first round pick. I worry about him breaking down, wonder if he's in playing shape, and wondering how long it would take him to pick up the offense.

Keep in mind, he's missed half of training camp.

http://dailydickpunch.com/2012/08/22/maurice-jones-drew-to-denver-for-the-right-price/

BroncoBeavis
08-22-2012, 07:49 AM
And, I don't care about the salary cap, let's win some ****ing championships

Is that a Daniel Snyder quote? :)

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 07:50 AM
I love the idea of MJD... just not for a first round pick.

Tim tebow, Demaryius Thomas, Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers, Jarvis Moss, and Jay Cutler all say "hi!"


D.J. Williams, George Foster and Ashley Lelie were not available for comment





(the second part about his health and missing camp is valid tho)

55CrushEm
08-22-2012, 08:15 AM
no, no, no, you do not trade a 1st for MJD and fork over a new contract.
a 2nd maybe, more than likely a 3rd, a player and another pick but not a 1st.

How about a 3rd + DJ + Slowshon ??

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 08:16 AM
How about a 3rd + DJ + Slowshon ??

For a top 5 RB? Not gonna happen

Bmore Manning
08-22-2012, 08:16 AM
How about a 3rd + DJ + Slowshon ??

They need a WLB too, Clint Session can't stay healthy...

2KBack
08-22-2012, 08:35 AM
And how many of those guys are capable of providing the MAJORITY of their teams offense for consecutive seasons while being an elite running and pass catching threat out of the backfield

You cannot draft a player like MJD, and if by some chance you do it will be a top 5 pick or just sheer luck

I didn't realize that MJD wasn't drafted....or was he drafted in the top 5? Maybe I'm thinking of the other top overall RB's like Ray Rice or Arian Foster....those guys must have been top 5. Michael Turner? Lesean Mccoy? Frank Gore?

Man, I am just having the hardest time finding elite running backs drafted in the top 5

Sigh....You don't understand. We don't need 1 guy to be the only offensive threat, so we don't need to overspend on a guy that would do that. He wouldn't be asked to be all those things for our team, he would be asked to do the things that cheaper backs could do just fine.

Heyneck
08-22-2012, 08:37 AM
crazy armchair talk going around here...

MagicHef
08-22-2012, 08:43 AM
PFF ranked MJD as the second best RB in the league last year. He was the Jaguar's top ranked receiver, and he was their 4th best pass blocker, beating out three of their starting OL, and every other fullback and halfback on the team. If I were in charge of the Jags, I wouldn't give him up. If they do decide to though, we'd be stupid not to pursue him.

Skill at RB correlates with wins much more closely than skill on the OL does.

For example, which team had the worst play at LT last season? The Packers, 15 wins.
The best play at LT? The Eagles, 8 wins.

Which team had the worst play at RB? The Browns, 4 wins.
The best play at RB? The Saints, 13 wins.

NFLBRONCO
08-22-2012, 08:43 AM
MJD- Would be awesome but, Denver has too many needs to fill to do this move imo.

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 08:51 AM
PFF ranked MJD as the second best RB in the league last year. He was the Jaguar's top ranked receiver, and he was their 4th best pass blocker, beating out three of their starting OL, and every other fullback and halfback on the team. If I were in charge of the Jags, I wouldn't give him up. If they do decide to though, we'd be stupid not to pursue him.


this

Heyneck
08-22-2012, 09:00 AM
PFF ranked MJD as the second best RB in the league last year. He was the Jaguar's top ranked receiver, and he was their 4th best pass blocker, beating out three of their starting OL, and every other fullback and halfback on the team. If I were in charge of the Jags, I wouldn't give him up. If they do decide to though, we'd be stupid not to pursue him.

Skill at RB correlates with wins much more closely than skill on the OL does.

For example, which team had the worst play at LT last season? The Packers, 15 wins.
The best play at LT? The Eagles, 8 wins.

Which team had the worst play at RB? The Browns, 4 wins.
The best play at RB? The Saints, 13 wins.

UHhh... sorry... but RB correlates with wins more than the OL? Hell to the no!!! Did you forget all those Shanny years? What happened to teams like the Vikes, Jags and Tenn last season? Even though they have elite rbs they got nowhere because of various other factors... one being that their Olines really struggled (Tenn not so much).

Having an elite back would be great... but in today's passing NFL they are not worth it unless you are picking them in the draft or getting them with low mileage through a trade (like Portis).

MJD has been a workhorse through his career. It comes a point where you have to ask yourself when he will start to break down?

BroncoBeavis
08-22-2012, 09:11 AM
PFF ranked MJD as the second best RB in the league last year. He was the Jaguar's top ranked receiver, and he was their 4th best pass blocker, beating out three of their starting OL, and every other fullback and halfback on the team. If I were in charge of the Jags, I wouldn't give him up. If they do decide to though, we'd be stupid not to pursue him.

Let me remove part of your statement to point out the flaw in your logic.


Skill at RB correlates with wins much more closely than skill on the OL does.

The Packers, 15 wins.
The Eagles, 8 wins.

James Starks is no LeSean McCoy. Not by a long shot. But he won more games.

Now I'm a big fan of balance. But not in the "We need a superstar RB to balance out our superstar QB" sense. We need young, reliable legs to chew up what's given to us so we can keep defenses honest. Take-it-to-the-house ability comes in a distant second when you've got an elite QB for that same purpose.

MagicHef
08-22-2012, 09:20 AM
UHhh... sorry... but RB correlates with wins more than the OL? Hell to the no!!! Did you forget all those Shanny years? What happened to teams like the Vikes, Jags and Tenn last season? Even though they have elite rbs they got nowhere because of various other factors... one being that their Olines really struggled (Tenn not so much).

Having an elite back would be great... but in today's passing NFL they are not worth it unless you are picking them in the draft or getting them with low mileage through a trade (like Portis).

MJD has been a workhorse through his career. It comes a point where you have to ask yourself when he will start to break down?

Tennessee's RBs were pretty bad last year. I'm not saying that having a big name at RB is what matters, it's the play that matters.

Cleveland, Miami, and Indy had the worst play at RB, and they combined for 12 wins. New Orleans, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo had the best play at RB, and they combined for 31 wins.

Meanwhile, the Giants had the second worst OL in the league last year. They sure didn't do anything.

MagicHef
08-22-2012, 09:25 AM
Let me remove part of your statement to point out the flaw in your logic.




James Starks is no LeSean McCoy. Not by a long shot. But he won more games.

Now I'm a big fan of balance. But not in the "We need a superstar RB to balance out our superstar QB" sense. We need young, reliable legs to chew up what's given to us so we can keep defenses honest. Take-it-to-the-house ability comes in a distant second when you've got an elite QB for that same purpose.

I'm not comparing #1 RB to #1 RB. I'm comparing everyone that took a snap at RB for each team. The Eagles had a combined +7.3 PFF rating for their RBs, the Packers were at +15.4.

Beantown Bronco
08-22-2012, 09:34 AM
UHhh... sorry... but RB correlates with wins more than the OL? Hell to the no!!! Did you forget all those Shanny years?

Ummm, the Shanny years actually reinforces the pro-RB argument. Same ranked Oline with TD vs without TD was like night and day.

BroncoBeavis
08-22-2012, 09:34 AM
Tennessee's RBs were pretty bad last year. I'm not saying that having a big name at RB is what matters, it's the play that matters.

Cleveland, Miami, and Indy had the worst play at RB, and they combined for 12 wins. New Orleans, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo had the best play at RB, and they combined for 31 wins.

Meanwhile, the Giants had the second worst OL in the league last year. They sure didn't do anything.

Dude, Cleveland, MIA and Indy had no offense at all because of terrible QB's. And did you just lump in 6-10 Buffalo with two Top Shelf QB playoff contenders to try to manufacture a point?

And that's the second time I've heard Sproles referenced. He's not an elite RB. He had more receiving yards than rushing last year. Put those yards together and you have about what McGahee did last year. Not Elite. He's a product of Brees.

Off the top of my head the only elite back I can think of that even went to the playoffs last year was Aryan Foster. Oh, or maybe Ray Rice.

There's a lot of other huge names, MJD included who racked up big stats last year, but went home after New Years.

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 09:38 AM
Arian Foster.

fyp

TheChamp24
08-22-2012, 09:47 AM
For a top 5 RB? Not gonna happen

Marshall Faulk was had for a mere 3rd round pick. I don't know why the Colts wanted to give him away, they didn't want to give him his huge contract I think.
It won't take a 1st rounder to get Jones-Drew.

Dude, Cleveland, MIA and Indy had no offense at all because of terrible QB's. And did you just lump in 6-10 Buffalo with two Top Shelf QB playoff contenders to try to manufacture a point?

And that's the second time I've heard Sproles referenced. He's not an elite RB. He had more receiving yards than rushing last year. Put those yards together and you have about what McGahee did last year. Not Elite. He's a product of Brees.

Off the top of my head the only elite back I can think of that even went to the playoffs last year was Aryan Foster. Oh, or maybe Ray Rice.

There's a lot of other huge names, MJD included who racked up big stats last year, but went home after New Years.

First off, someone mentioned Pittsburgh got a top performance by their RB's. Their RB's performed average. 1700 yards and 13 TD's between 5 RB's.

Second, lets look at the playoff teams last year and their RB:
Giants - Brandon Jacobs/Ahmad Bradshaw, nothing special but solid
Green Bay Packers - RB committee, nothing special but solid
Detroit Lions - meh
Saints - Nobody exactly elite, but they have a solid group, 3-4 guys deep capable of running the ball/catching the ball
Falcons - here we go, our first "elite" in Turner
49ers - Is Gore considered elite? Kind of on the bubble between elite and great
Patriots - absolutely nobody elite
Ravens - Ray Rice, elite
Steelers - I say nobody elite, Mendenhall is not elite
Bengals - again, nobody elite but solid
Texans - Foster is elite
Broncos - nobody elite, but McGahee is solid

12 playoff teams, 3 elite RB's and 1 borderline elite. Winner of the Super Bowl did not have an elite RB.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-22-2012, 09:57 AM
Tim tebow, Demaryius Thomas, Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers, Jarvis Moss, and Jay Cutler all say "hi!"


D.J. Williams, George Foster and Ashley Lelie were not available for comment





(the second part about his health and missing camp is valid tho)

Hey, you won't get an argument from me on the fact that we haven't drafted well in the first round in the last 10 years or so, though I would point out that last year's class was pretty good, and it was the first with the new regime. Plus, having first rounders means the ability to trade down and get more pieces.

I just think a 7 year vet with 1000 carries in the last three years is maybe not a good investment of a first round pick.

I could even be convinced of a second rounder, especially a late second rounder.

broncocalijohn
08-22-2012, 10:13 AM
I love the idea of MJD... just not for a first round pick. I worry about him breaking down, wonder if he's in playing shape, and wondering how long it would take him to pick up the offense.

Keep in mind, he's missed half of training camp.

http://dailydickpunch.com/2012/08/22/maurice-jones-drew-to-denver-for-the-right-price/

I tend to agree on the 1st round but I would think if it is a 2nd, we are also trading a player to compensate for their loss. Moreno? Probably have to give a later round pick with that. Moreno gets to go home near Georgia and Jags get a ****ty version of MJD.

BroncoBen
08-22-2012, 10:24 AM
A 1st for a running back in his 6th year? Pass...Offer a 3rd and Moreno and be done with it.

I agree a offer of a 1st or 2nd rounder is too much... draft picks are too valuable.

Heck I am disturbed to hear the talk (radio) this morning that if the Broncos would have worked this past draft differently.. they could have drafted with a little wheeling and dealing.

ILB Dont'a Hightower - Who was there with their #1 pick
DT Derek Wolfe - who should have been there on the board with their #2
QB Russell Wilson - which might have required trading up into the 2nd round.

MagicHef
08-22-2012, 10:28 AM
Marshall Faulk was had for a mere 3rd round pick. I don't know why the Colts wanted to give him away, they didn't want to give him his huge contract I think.
It won't take a 1st rounder to get Jones-Drew.



First off, someone mentioned Pittsburgh got a top performance by their RB's. Their RB's performed average. 1700 yards and 13 TD's between 5 RB's.

Second, lets look at the playoff teams last year and their RB:
Giants - Brandon Jacobs/Ahmad Bradshaw, nothing special but solid
Green Bay Packers - RB committee, nothing special but solid
Detroit Lions - meh
Saints - Nobody exactly elite, but they have a solid group, 3-4 guys deep capable of running the ball/catching the ball
Falcons - here we go, our first "elite" in Turner
49ers - Is Gore considered elite? Kind of on the bubble between elite and great
Patriots - absolutely nobody elite
Ravens - Ray Rice, elite
Steelers - I say nobody elite, Mendenhall is not elite
Bengals - again, nobody elite but solid
Texans - Foster is elite
Broncos - nobody elite, but McGahee is solid

12 playoff teams, 3 elite RB's and 1 borderline elite. Winner of the Super Bowl did not have an elite RB.

Again, I am not talking about #1 RBs or names, but about the performances of the RB corps as a whole. Here are PFF's ratings for the RB corps of playoff teams:

Giants 5th
Packers 13th
Lions 23rd
Saints 1st
Falcons 16th
49ers 22nd
Patriots 9th
Ravens 15th
Steelers 2nd
Bengals 21st
Texans 4th
Broncos 17th

4 of the top 5 teams made the playoffs, with one winning the SB. Zero of the bottom 9 teams made the playoffs. Average rank was 12th.

For OL:

Giants 31st
Packers 11th
Lions 10th
Saints 1st
Falcons 17
49ers 20th
Patriots 3rd
Ravens 8th
Steelers 25th
Bengals 12th
Texans 5th
Broncos 30th

Only 3 of the top 5 teams made the playoffs, while 3 of the bottom 8 also made it. Average rank is 16th, or average. The team that won the SB ranked next to last.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-22-2012, 10:28 AM
UHhh... sorry... but RB correlates with wins more than the OL? Hell to the no!!!


Not saying your completely wrong in your post, but last years SuperBowl winner had a pretty bad Oline. Having said that, they also had only 659 yards by their top RB, and none of their RBs averaged at least 4 yards a carry

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 10:31 AM
I agree a offer of a 1st or 2nd rounder is too much... draft picks are too valuable.



I'll respnd with a copy and past of the best post so far.

Tim tebow, Demaryius Thomas, Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers, Jarvis Moss, and Jay Cutler all say "hi!"


D.J. Williams, George Foster and Ashley Lelie were not available for comment

I would add Smith as well since Denver ended up giving a 1st rounder for him.

So tell me where is that 1st round value you are speaking of. This is most every team in the nFL. First round picks are a crap shoot. After all the Chefs spent the #11 selection on POE!

MagicHef
08-22-2012, 10:31 AM
Dude, Cleveland, MIA and Indy had no offense at all because of terrible QB's. And did you just lump in 6-10 Buffalo with two Top Shelf QB playoff contenders to try to manufacture a point?

And that's the second time I've heard Sproles referenced. He's not an elite RB. He had more receiving yards than rushing last year. Put those yards together and you have about what McGahee did last year. Not Elite. He's a product of Brees.

Off the top of my head the only elite back I can think of that even went to the playoffs last year was Aryan Foster. Oh, or maybe Ray Rice.

There's a lot of other huge names, MJD included who racked up big stats last year, but went home after New Years.

Again, not names, but performance. Also, when did it become bad for an RB to catch the ball? That's part of the reason I want MJD.

Beantown Bronco
08-22-2012, 10:32 AM
I agree a offer of a 1st or 2nd rounder is too much... draft picks are too valuable.

They couldn't be less valuable IMO. Especially a team like the Broncos that, due to player trades and trade downs the last 5 years, have had a Hershel Walker-like bounty of picks to work with and we've come away with next to nothing. I have zero confidence we'll ever be able to come away with anyone better than leage average unless we pick #2 again.


Heck I am disturbed to hear the talk (radio) this morning that if the Broncos would have worked this past draft differently.. they could have drafted with a little wheeling and dealing.

ILB Dont'a Hightower - Who was there with their #1 pick
DT Derek Wolfe - who should have been there on the board with their #2
QB Russell Wilson - which might have required trading up into the 2nd round.

At least 25 or so teams can do this to themselves after every draft. It's not worth stressing over.

Broncos_OTM
08-22-2012, 10:33 AM
guy has two years left on his contract. I am with khan on this one. I ain't giving him a new contract, and I wouldn't trade for him. imagine if he was in denver pulling this id be pissed. you signed the co.tract you play for what you signed. saying that MJD in denver would be sick. not gonna happen though

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-22-2012, 10:35 AM
I'll respnd with a copy and past of the best post so far.



I would add Smith as well since Denver ended up giving a 1st rounder for him.

So tell me where is that 1st round value you are speaking of. This is most every team in the nFL. First round picks are a crap shoot. After all the Chefs spent the #11 selection on POE!


Shows how valuable a smart FO really is. Teams with good FOs a 1st rounder is far more valuable than teams whose FO use crayons and mock drafts on draft day. So I'd say a 1st is very valuable depending on the FO at the time. Look at those names then look at who drafted them.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-22-2012, 10:36 AM
guy has two years left on his contract. I am with khan on this one. I ain't giving him a new contract, and I wouldn't trade for him. imagine if he was in denver pulling this id be pissed. you signed the co.tract you play for what you signed. saying that MJD in denver would be sick. not gonna happen though

Not only that, his contract was front loaded. It was like top 3 highest for a RB at the time of the signing. He's just upset the tail end of the contract is happening now.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-22-2012, 10:41 AM
I'll respnd with a copy and past of the best post so far.



I would add Smith as well since Denver ended up giving a 1st rounder for him.

So tell me where is that 1st round value you are speaking of. This is most every team in the nFL. First round picks are a crap shoot. After all the Chefs spent the #11 selection on POE!

Nothing like attributing the failures of past regimes to the current regime.

"We drafted poorly in the past, so we will always draft poorly," said no logical person ever.

Heyneck
08-22-2012, 10:42 AM
Ummm, the Shanny years actually reinforces the pro-RB argument. Same ranked Oline with TD vs without TD was like night and day.

TD was one in a million. We had a wicked oline that kept paving the way for 1000 yard rushers on a consistent basis. Look TD was a draft steal, if we happen to stumble upon a rb like that... I'll be stocked (used to be a huge Portis fan). It's just a huge risk investing a 1st on a rb with so much wear on the wheels, plus, we would have to pay him AP and CJ tipe money.

Anyway... back on track. What do you think is a better recipe for success for an offense. An elite RB or a great OL? Look what happened in SEA when they had that awesome OL. They made Shaun Alexander look like a HoF for a couple of years. They then lost Hutch and Shaun Alexander turns into... well... Shaun Alexander. That same Hutch goes on to Min as the missing piece to an OL that makes AP blow into the scene. Ever since that Oline started to fall apart AP hasn't been able to put up the same numbers he did in his first 2 years. AP is an Elite talent that is still able to overcome his teammates flaws... but look how many times and how hard their QBs have been hit.

A great Oline is way more important than an Elite RB.

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 10:44 AM
Rant sports

NFL Rumors: Denver Broncos to Trade For Maurice Jones-Drew?

http://www.rantsports.com/redzonetalk/files/2012/08/Maurice-Jones-Drew1.jpg

The Denver Broncos (http://www.rantsports.com/denver-broncos/) already made the move of the offseason when they acquired free agent Peyton Manning. Now NFL (http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/) rumors (http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/rumors/) are swirling surrounding the potential landing spot for Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.rantsports.com/jacksonville-jaguars/) running back Maurice Jones-Drew and Denver is rumored to be interested.
MJD is in the midst of a holdout due to a desire for a new long term contract. Jaguars (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/#) owner Shad Khan is not giving in and even offered a statement hinting that Jones-Drew could get traded.
“Train is leaving the station. Run, get on it” Khan said in regards to their hard-lined approach to MJD’s contract
As you can imagine, several teams have expressed interest in acquiring MJD and the Broncos might be one of those teams. It wouldn’t be too far of a stretch to see John Elway make a move to get Jones-Drew. Manning needs a solid running game (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/#), and although they already have Willis McGahee, if the league’s reining rush leader is up for grabs you have to at least see if it’s plausible.


In June, the Broncos were said to have $11.7 million left in cap space so they have the capability of luring MJD. He would come at a high price tag but there is the potential to negotiate a lower contract but load it with easily reachable incentives (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/#) and a bonus after one season in order to work with the Broncos current salary cap.
That now leads us to who the Broncos would be willing to trade. First name that comes to mind would be RB Knowshon Moreno. Denver has not been pleased with the way Moreno has performed in his first few seasons with the team. He was obviously dealing with injuries but he’s had some off-the-field issues as well but the Broncos wouldn’t mind parting ways with the former Georgia product. Linebacker DJ Williams is also another possibility in a trade scenario due to his non-football drama. Williams has been a good player but the front office may be fed up with his antics off the field and would be willing to let him go.


Even if everything worked out and the Broncos were able to trade for MJD what would that mean for McGahee? It would most likely mean his departure as well. McGahee re-signed with the Broncos this offseason because he viewed Denver as the place where he knew he would be able to start. I don’t think he would be happy to be the No. 2 running back again behind Jones-Drew if he was brought in.


As for now, Jones-Drew is still under contract with the Jaguars and the team has said they are unwilling to trade him. Until he signs (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/#) a contract or the team officially places him on the trading block, all the reports should just be taken as rumors and speculation.


http://www.rantsports.com/redzonetalk/2012/08/22/nfl-rumors-denver-broncos-to-trade-for-maurice-jones-drew/

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-22-2012, 10:49 AM
TD was one in a million. We had a wicked oline that kept paving the way for 1000 yard rushers on a consistent basis. Look TD was a draft steal, if we happen to stumble upon a rb like that... I'll be stocked (used to be a huge Portis fan). It's just a huge risk investing a 1st on a rb with so much wear on the wheels, plus, we would have to pay him AP and CJ tipe money.

Anyway... back on track. What do you think is a better recipe for success for an offense. An elite RB or a great OL? Look what happened in SEA when they had that awesome OL. They made Shaun Alexander look like a HoF for a couple of years. They then lost Hutch and Shaun Alexander turns into... well... Shaun Alexander. That same Hutch goes on to Min as the missing piece to an OL that makes AP blow into the scene. Ever since that Oline started to fall apart AP hasn't been able to put up the same numbers he did in his first 2 years. AP is an Elite talent that is still able to overcome his teammates flaws... but look how many times and how hard their QBs have been hit.

A great Oline is way more important than an Elite RB.


Injuries did turn Shaun alexanders career for worse. Blame the Oline? Certainly an arguement for that. But I blame Shaun Alexander's slide on the 2007 madden cover curse!

Beantown Bronco
08-22-2012, 10:51 AM
Anyway... back on track. What do you think is a better recipe for success for an offense. An elite RB or a great OL? Look what happened in SEA when they had that awesome OL. They made Shaun Alexander look like a HoF for a couple of years. They then lost Hutch and Shaun Alexander turns into... well... Shaun Alexander. That same Hutch goes on to Min as the missing piece to an OL that makes AP blow into the scene. Ever since that Oline started to fall apart AP hasn't been able to put up the same numbers he did in his first 2 years. AP is an Elite talent that is still able to overcome his teammates flaws... but look how many times and how hard their QBs have been hit.

A great Oline is way more important than an Elite RB.

Yes, but this decision isn't a hypothetical on paper thing. We know who the RB is that we can acquire. Do you have the Olinemen that we can acquire now to achieve teh "top OLine" billing?

MJD is UNQUESTIONABLY a top 5 running back in this league. We need AT LEAST TWO awesome OLinemen to get a top 5 ranked OLine. One to take Walton's place and one to take Beadles'. Are any of the top 5 guards and centers in the league available for trade right now? If so, I'd love to hear it.

LRtagger
08-22-2012, 10:53 AM
MJD for McGahee, DJ, and a 2nd

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-22-2012, 10:53 AM
Why does anyone think that any team will want DJ Williams in a frigging trade? The guy is going to miss 6 games, and with his DUI conviction it could be as many as 10. TEN GAMES! And someone is going to trade for him?

Stop. Stop the madness.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-22-2012, 10:54 AM
Looking back at the Super Bowl winners over the last few years, I don't see many great running games. Wasn't Rogers getting sacked a lot? Patriots certainly didn't have much run game. Giants were one of the worst last year. If I remember colts didn't have too much a threat. Can't remember if the saints did their year. I do see a passing QB correlation with all these winners. So an Oline makes it worth up by protecting these QBs.

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 10:54 AM
What does it do for Denver's chances of a SB if the Pats go and trade for MJD? Any chance they have now is gone.

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 10:56 AM
Rant sports

NFL Rumors: Denver Broncos to Trade For Maurice Jones-Drew?

http://www.rantsports.com/redzonetalk/files/2012/08/Maurice-Jones-Drew1.jpg

The Denver Broncos (http://www.rantsports.com/denver-broncos/) already made the move of the offseason when they acquired free agent Peyton Manning. Now NFL (http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/) rumors (http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/rumors/) are swirling surrounding the potential landing spot for Jacksonville Jaguars (http://www.rantsports.com/jacksonville-jaguars/) running back Maurice Jones-Drew and Denver is rumored to be interested.
MJD is in the midst of a holdout due to a desire for a new long term contract. Jaguars (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/#) owner Shad Khan is not giving in and even offered a statement hinting that Jones-Drew could get traded.
“Train is leaving the station. Run, get on it” Khan said in regards to their hard-lined approach to MJD’s contract
As you can imagine, several teams have expressed interest in acquiring MJD and the Broncos might be one of those teams. It wouldn’t be too far of a stretch to see John Elway make a move to get Jones-Drew. Manning needs a solid running game (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/#), and although they already have Willis McGahee, if the league’s reining rush leader is up for grabs you have to at least see if it’s plausible.


In June, the Broncos were said to have $11.7 million left in cap space so they have the capability of luring MJD. He would come at a high price tag but there is the potential to negotiate a lower contract but load it with easily reachable incentives (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/#) and a bonus after one season in order to work with the Broncos current salary cap.
That now leads us to who the Broncos would be willing to trade. First name that comes to mind would be RB Knowshon Moreno. Denver has not been pleased with the way Moreno has performed in his first few seasons with the team. He was obviously dealing with injuries but he’s had some off-the-field issues as well but the Broncos wouldn’t mind parting ways with the former Georgia product. Linebacker DJ Williams is also another possibility in a trade scenario due to his non-football drama. Williams has been a good player but the front office may be fed up with his antics off the field and would be willing to let him go.


Even if everything worked out and the Broncos were able to trade for MJD what would that mean for McGahee? It would most likely mean his departure as well. McGahee re-signed with the Broncos this offseason because he viewed Denver as the place where he knew he would be able to start. I don’t think he would be happy to be the No. 2 running back again behind Jones-Drew if he was brought in.


As for now, Jones-Drew is still under contract with the Jaguars and the team has said they are unwilling to trade him. Until he signs (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/#) a contract or the team officially places him on the trading block, all the reports should just be taken as rumors and speculation.


http://www.rantsports.com/redzonetalk/2012/08/22/nfl-rumors-denver-broncos-to-trade-for-maurice-jones-drew/

Don't agree that mcgahee would be an automatic departure, but sign me up for everything else

MagicHef
08-22-2012, 10:58 AM
TD was one in a million. We had a wicked oline that kept paving the way for 1000 yard rushers on a consistent basis. Look TD was a draft steal, if we happen to stumble upon a rb like that... I'll be stocked (used to be a huge Portis fan). It's just a huge risk investing a 1st on a rb with so much wear on the wheels, plus, we would have to pay him AP and CJ tipe money.

Anyway... back on track. What do you think is a better recipe for success for an offense. An elite RB or a great OL? Look what happened in SEA when they had that awesome OL. They made Shaun Alexander look like a HoF for a couple of years. They then lost Hutch and Shaun Alexander turns into... well... Shaun Alexander. That same Hutch goes on to Min as the missing piece to an OL that makes AP blow into the scene. Ever since that Oline started to fall apart AP hasn't been able to put up the same numbers he did in his first 2 years. AP is an Elite talent that is still able to overcome his teammates flaws... but look how many times and how hard their QBs have been hit.

A great Oline is way more important than an Elite RB.

I didn't realize that it was Hutchinson's absence that caused Alexander to break his foot and wrist.

Heyneck
08-22-2012, 11:02 AM
Yes, but this decision isn't a hypothetical on paper thing. We know who the RB is that we can acquire. Do you have the Olinemen that we can acquire now to achieve teh "top OLine" billing?

MJD is UNQUESTIONABLY a top 5 running back in this league. We need AT LEAST TWO awesome OLinemen to get a top 5 ranked OLine. One to take Walton's place and one to take Beadles'. Are any of the top 5 guards and centers in the league available for trade right now? If so, I'd love to hear it.

Hey I would take MJD in a heart beat! I just wouldn't pay a 1st for him. He is a RB going on his 7th season. He has been a workhorse all his life. Too much wear on those legs. Now... next draft depending on our need and BPA we could target OL in the first. We don't need to trade the pick to get a great talent, we just need good scouting and good drafting.

MagicHef
08-22-2012, 11:13 AM
Looking back at the Super Bowl winners over the last few years, I don't see many great running games. Wasn't Rogers getting sacked a lot? Patriots certainly didn't have much run game. Giants were one of the worst last year. If I remember colts didn't have too much a threat. Can't remember if the saints did their year. I do see a passing QB correlation with all these winners. So an Oline makes it worth up by protecting these QBs.

2011 NYG: 5th RB, 31st OL
2010 GB: 10th RB, 15th OL
2009 NO: 3rd RB, 4th OL

Heyneck
08-22-2012, 11:14 AM
I didn't realize that it was Hutchinson's absence that caused Alexander to break his foot and wrist.

Well his first season after Hutch left and he signed that huge contract, he wasn't doing that great until he broke his leg early in the season. He came back and didn't do so great except for 1 game. The next season he breaks his wrist and when he comes back loses one of his best blockers in FB Mack Strong and his decline is evident. But you are right... Hutch absence didn't cause him to break his foot, but running to the leftside (his bread and butter) was no longer the same.

Plus, look at Alexander's career as a case worth comparing to MJD. Alexander like MJD was a workhorse that putted up great stats. In his 7th season he signs a huge contract only to have it ripped apart 2 years later because of wear and tear. It's just to risky sending a 1st and signing a 7th year RB to a huge extension. Prefer to keep the pick and keep building the trenches (OL or DL).

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-22-2012, 11:33 AM
2011 NYG: 5th RB, 31st OL
2010 GB: 10th RB, 15th OL
2009 NO: 3rd RB, 4th OL

How can the giants be ranked 5th when they ranked dead last in yards rushing? 1427 yards was the lowest in the league.

2010 green bay had 1606 yards rushing. That's not 10th.
2009 NO was ranked 6th not 3rd.

What are you basing the ranks on?

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-22-2012, 11:49 AM
What does it do for Denver's chances of a SB if the Pats go and trade for MJD? Any chance they have now is gone.

It's that kind of thinking that led us to draft Knowshon at 12, as the rumor was Josh was worried about San Diego wanting him at 15.

MagicHef
08-22-2012, 12:01 PM
How can the giants be ranked 5th when they ranked dead last in yards rushing? 1427 yards was the lowest in the league.

2010 green bay had 1606 yards rushing. That's not 10th.
2009 NO was ranked 6th not 3rd.

What are you basing the ranks on?

PFF ratings. It's not just rushing, it takes into account receiving, blocking, and penalties as well. That's why it fits a pro-MJD argument so well. He's great at all those things.

Mogulseeker
08-22-2012, 12:03 PM
It's that kind of thinking that led us to draft Knowshon at 12, as the rumor was Josh was worried about San Diego wanting him at 15.

That would have been awesome.

socalorado
08-22-2012, 12:03 PM
Don't agree that mcgahee would be an automatic departure, but sign me up for everything else

I call BS on McGahee not being pleased with MJD coming to DEN in a hypothetical trade.
The guy is 30 and wants more SBs just as bad as Peyton.
I think Mcgahee more than almost any other player on the team would understand that he would still get alot of carries, and most teams have 2 capable backs today anyways.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-22-2012, 12:06 PM
PFF ratings. It's not just rushing, it takes into account receiving, blocking, and penalties as well. That's why it fits a pro-MJD argument so well. He's great at all those things.

Gotcha. Thought it was just rushing ranks

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-22-2012, 12:08 PM
Has Del Rio said anything? Or the FO? I just see this article about broncos being interested as a the foundation of a rumor

*WARHORSE*
08-22-2012, 12:08 PM
MJD would bring 5.5 ypc in this offense.

If he leads the league in rushing with Plain Gabbert under center, what in the world does he look like with Peyton Manning?

I'll tell you.

He looks like a photo op with the Lombardi in his hands.

MagicHef
08-22-2012, 12:11 PM
Has Del Rio said anything? Or the FO? I just see this article about broncos being interested as a the foundation of a rumor

Nope, it's all just rumor.

A very mean one if it's not true.

BroncoBeavis
08-22-2012, 12:13 PM
Has Del Rio said anything? Or the FO? I just see this article about broncos being interested as a the foundation of a rumor

I totally forgot about the JDR angle.

socalorado
08-22-2012, 12:16 PM
I totally forgot about the JDR angle.

That was the only reason i 1st though it might be more than a rumor.
Hopefully JDR has been on his celly convincing MJD to come to Mile High!

jerseyboiler120
08-22-2012, 12:33 PM
That was the only reason i 1st though it might be more than a rumor.
Hopefully JDR has been on his celly convincing MJD to come to Mile High!


That would be nice. Hopefully they got along well; if MJD can't stand JDR there's no chance.

rmsanger
08-22-2012, 12:53 PM
If you can swing this deal you do it ASAP Elway! Give up a '13 2nd and an option '14 pick based upon playing time. Pay MJD for 3-4 more years as a top 5 back and be happy all day every day.....

razorwire77
08-22-2012, 12:55 PM
If you can swing this deal you do it ASAP Elway! Give up a '13 2nd and an option '14 pick based upon playing time. Pay MJD for 3-4 more years as a top 5 back and be happy all day every day.....

I think if you could swing the deal without giving up a 1st rounder you jump at it.

2013 2nd rounder, D.J., Moreno, and even a 2014 3rd rounder if necessary.

TheChamp24
08-22-2012, 01:31 PM
Again, not names, but performance. Also, when did it become bad for an RB to catch the ball? That's part of the reason I want MJD.

And I'd argue we could finish top 10/ top 5 without MJD in RB performance, and these ratings seem retarded to me to be honest but whatever.

You're kind of proving the point we don't need MJD to win a Super Bowl though. You don't need an elite RB, just solid, capable guys and thats what we have.

Broncojef
08-22-2012, 01:39 PM
Our running backs seem to always be injured or on the verge of getting hurt every week. Sure would be nice to have a proven work horse like MJD in the stable. Hope John takes a solid look at this.

NFLBRONCO
08-22-2012, 01:48 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$$ won't happen

MagicHef
08-22-2012, 01:51 PM
And I'd argue we could finish top 10/ top 5 without MJD in RB performance, and these ratings seem retarded to me to be honest but whatever.

You're kind of proving the point we don't need MJD to win a Super Bowl though. You don't need an elite RB, just solid, capable guys and thats what we have.

Of course you don't NEED any one specific thing to win a super bowl, they have been won by teams of all types. Getting vastly better at key positions can only help, though. I will say there's no way we finish top 10 in RB rating if we just have the guys currently on the roster.

The Joker
08-22-2012, 02:07 PM
And I'd argue we could finish top 10/ top 5 without MJD in RB performance, and these ratings seem retarded to me to be honest but whatever.

You're kind of proving the point we don't need MJD to win a Super Bowl though. You don't need an elite RB, just solid, capable guys and thats what we have.

You don't need an elite player at any specific position to win the Super Bowl.

You do however need a few elite players in your squad, and MJD would give us that. At the moment we don't have any proven elite players on offence outside of Peyton, we could do with one.

Drunk Monkey
08-22-2012, 02:09 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$$ won't happen

Bowlen's broke

Tombstone RJ
08-22-2012, 02:58 PM
I think if you could swing the deal without giving up a 1st rounder you jump at it.

2013 2nd rounder, D.J., Moreno, and even a 2014 3rd rounder if necessary.

LOL

seriously, let's not get stupid here. I'd give up MAYBE a second round pick for MJD and then I'd sign him to a very incentive laden contract with a decent signing bonus up front that "shows him the $" but doesn't hamstring the team for the next few years.

extralife
08-22-2012, 03:44 PM
That was the only reason i 1st though it might be more than a rumor.
Hopefully JDR has been on his celly convincing MJD to come to Mile High!

he's under contract. no one from a team not named the jags can talk to him.

extralife
08-22-2012, 03:45 PM
LOL

seriously, let's not get stupid here. I'd give up MAYBE a second round pick for MJD and then I'd sign him to a very incentive laden contract with a decent signing bonus up front that "shows him the $" but doesn't hamstring the team for the next few years.

the guy is holding out specifically for cash and you think he's going to play for us if we swoop in and low ball him? really?

this thread, man.

DBroncos4life
08-22-2012, 03:52 PM
I would trade every first round pick ever for proven super stars and not lose a second of sleep.

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 03:54 PM
Give a first round pick, plus Moreno and one of our 5 safeties. Denver shouldn't carry 5 safties anyway. Then offer Drew a 4 year $30 million contract with $18 million guaranteed. There it is done and everyone is friggin happy!!

Let's get this done and go win a Super Bowl!!!!

razorwire77
08-22-2012, 03:57 PM
LOL

seriously, let's not get stupid here. I'd give up MAYBE a second round pick for MJD and then I'd sign him to a very incentive laden contract with a decent signing bonus up front that "shows him the $" but doesn't hamstring the team for the next few years.

The Manning trade set into motion a two year, three year window to win a championship. I know that some people seem to think that Peyton came with some sort of a time machine back to 2007 where he'll be able to throw 560 passes in a season and the Broncos will be successful. He's not going to be able to do that and the team needs to be able to run more, significantly more than Indy did with Peyton.

So if we look at the roster we have a decent RB north of 30, an unknown commodity 3rd round draft pick and scrubs.

Moreno sucks and his trade value is probably a 5th rounder, D.J.'s trade value is next to nothing because of the impending suspension and his contract his pretty big.

It's laughable that people think the Jags are going to take something like a 3rd rounder and Moreno for one of the three best backs in the league. If this is going to happen it's going to take a minimum of a 2nd and a player to get it done. Probably more like a 2nd, a 4th, and a decent player.

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 04:27 PM
LOL

seriously, let's not get stupid here. I'd give up MAYBE a second round pick for MJD and then I'd sign him to a very incentive laden contract with a decent signing bonus up front that "shows him the $" but doesn't hamstring the team for the next few years.

That might be what "YOU" would offer, but that is not gonna get the deal done.

Of course giving a second if the Wads would take it would be very awesome.

Tombstone RJ
08-22-2012, 04:31 PM
the guy is holding out specifically for cash and you think he's going to play for us if we swoop in and low ball him? really?

this thread, man.

where did I say low ball him? Please go back and read my post again. kthnx.

Tombstone RJ
08-22-2012, 04:33 PM
That might be what "YOU" would offer, but that is not gonna get the deal done.

Of course giving a second if the Wads would take it would be very awesome.

He's a good RB but he's not worth much in a trade.

Tombstone RJ
08-22-2012, 04:37 PM
The Manning trade set into motion a two year, three year window to win a championship. I know that some people seem to think that Peyton came with some sort of a time machine back to 2007 where he'll be able to throw 560 passes in a season and the Broncos will be successful. He's not going to be able to do that and the team needs to be able to run more, significantly more than Indy did with Peyton.

So if we look at the roster we have a decent RB north of 30, an unknown commodity 3rd round draft pick and scrubs.

Moreno sucks and his trade value is probably a 5th rounder, D.J.'s trade value is next to nothing because of the impending suspension and his contract his pretty big.

It's laughable that people think the Jags are going to take something like a 3rd rounder and Moreno for one of the three best backs in the league. If this is going to happen it's going to take a minimum of a 2nd and a player to get it done. Probably more like a 2nd, a 4th, and a decent player.

Let's see how Moreno performs in this new offense. I'm not saying he's gonna be Marshall Falk, but I am saying "let's see first."

MJD has a lot of mileage on him. There is a reason that Jacksonville does not want to break the bank on the guy and it's because he's been ridden like a pony express horse over the last few years.

MJD has been flat out over used in a system that had no passing attack. I just don't see the logic in trading the farm for a guy who is on the downside of a very tough career.

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 04:39 PM
He's a good RB but he's not worth much in a trade.

He is the best RB in the NFL. He ran for almost 300 yards more then the next person. He also had a 4.7 YPC average and that was with Blaine Gabbert at QB. Yeah he is just a "good" RB

Pair him with McGhee and Manning and you would improve his performance reduce his workload and extend his career. With a new contract and a chance at the SB he would come in with a great attitude and very motivated.

canadianbroncosfan
08-22-2012, 04:46 PM
Dude, Cleveland, MIA and Indy had no offense at all because of terrible QB's. And did you just lump in 6-10 Buffalo with two Top Shelf QB playoff contenders to try to manufacture a point?

And that's the second time I've heard Sproles referenced. He's not an elite RB. He had more receiving yards than rushing last year. Put those yards together and you have about what McGahee did last year. Not Elite. He's a product of Brees.

Off the top of my head the only elite back I can think of that even went to the playoffs last year was Aryan Foster. Oh, or maybe Ray Rice.

There's a lot of other huge names, MJD included who racked up big stats last year, but went home after New Years.

To all those that scoff at our M.W.A. just look what it's done to the quality of your posts :)

I was as lost as you were at some of those examples.

Dree Brees breaks the single season passing record and we're calling the Saints and elite running team? And Buffalo, really Buffalo?? I'm not even sure how using a team that goes 6-10 could make any sense whatsoever.

fyp

Oh good rebuttal man, I guess when you can't argue the point you have to find something to make you feel good :clown:

Tombstone RJ
08-22-2012, 04:46 PM
He is the best RB in the NFL. He ran for almost 300 yards more then the next person. He also had a 4.7 YPC average and that was with Blaine Gabbert at QB. Yeah he is just a "good" RB

Pair him with McGhee and Manning and you would improve his performance reduce his workload and extend his career. With a new contract and a chance at the SB he would come in with a great attitude and very motivated.

I don't think he's the best RB in the NFL, he's good but he's also on the downside of his career. Again, I think there is a reason Jacksonville is being cautious about signing him to big contract and its probably because the life of a RB in the NFL is not very long.

I'd love MJD on this team, but I wouldn't go overboard on a trade.

canadianbroncosfan
08-22-2012, 04:50 PM
Why does anyone think that any team will want DJ Williams in a frigging trade? The guy is going to miss 6 games, and with his DUI conviction it could be as many as 10. TEN GAMES! And someone is going to trade for him?

Stop. Stop the madness.

^

This seems to be lost so I'm going to bump your comment and bold it in hope everyone reads it

Boogerboots
08-22-2012, 04:52 PM
Not sure if this was mentioned yet ,but if MJD does go up for trade, Denver should get in mix not only for their own benefit but also to avoid seeing the guy suit up for say the Patsies or even Bolts.

We can not afford to let a weapon like this fall into enemy hands.

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 04:52 PM
I don't think he's the best RB in the NFL, he's good but he's also on the downside of his career. Again, I think there is a reason Jacksonville is being cautious about signing him to big contract and its probably because the life of a RB in the NFL is not very long.

I'd love MJD on this team, but I wouldn't go overboard on a trade.

Jacksonville is being cautious not because of his age, which is only 27, three years younger than Mcghee. They are being "cautious" because he still has two years left on his contract. A contract that was front loaded to start with.

No reason why Denver should not do everything they can to get him in here. If it takes more than a 2nd get it done. Look at Denver's first round picks the last 20 years. How many of those would you take over Jones-Drew?

Tombstone RJ
08-22-2012, 04:53 PM
Haha! I proposed DJ Williams in a trade as a joke. No team is gonna trade for DJ.

canadianbroncosfan
08-22-2012, 04:57 PM
Haha! I proposed DJ Williams in a trade as a joke. No team is gonna trade for DJ.

That may be but you're not the only one......unfortunately

Tombstone RJ
08-22-2012, 05:03 PM
Jacksonville is being cautious not because of his age, which is only 27, three years younger than Mcghee. They are being "cautious" because he still has two years left on his contract. A contract that was front loaded to start with.

No reason why Denver should not do everything they can to get him in here. If it takes more than a 2nd get it done. Look at Denver's first round picks the last 20 years. How many of those would you take over Jones-Drew?

He was drafted in 2006 and has been ridden hard by the Jags. The reality is, with a young QB like Gabbert the Jags should be doing everything they can to keep MJD around, right?

I just don't think MJD is worth much in trade, not with the mileage he has on his body. It's not like when the Broncos traded Portis who was in his second or third year and in his prime. The Broncos drafted Hillman and we don't even know what this kid can bring to the table. Sure, I'd like MJD but I wouldn't trade the farm for the guy. Not with Hillman being a complete unknown.

Also, there are going to be some RBs who are going to be released from teams before the season starts, so the Broncos have to take that into consideration too.

Beantown Bronco
08-22-2012, 05:16 PM
he's under contract. no one from a team not named the jags can talk to him.

Albert Haynesworth and every other high profile FA that ever signed a contract with a new team at 12:01AM is laughing at you.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-22-2012, 05:17 PM
Hillman may be a complete unknown, but the way things have gone so far that unknown could go the way of Morenos road. Hamstring issues that linger for a long time. I want to see what Hillman can provide too, but I would trade a 2nd and player or other pick for MJD. I wouldn't give up a first though.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-22-2012, 05:20 PM
Albert Haynesworth and every other high profile FA that ever signed a contract with a new team at 12:01AM is laughing at you.

That's a little different. Not sure but doesnt new offseason/ seasons start before FA period? Ending a season of the last year of a contract is a bit different than having 2 years left

Beantown Bronco
08-22-2012, 05:22 PM
That's a little different. Not sure but doesnt new seasons start before FA period? Ending a season of the last year of a contract is a bit different than having 2 years left

They still talk/collude. And I'm sure Jacksonville will be giving the ok to his agent to gauge the market for him and see what he can work out in a sign and trade. This happens all the time.

kent156
08-22-2012, 05:35 PM
this sounds like Asante Samuel all over again

UberBroncoMan
08-22-2012, 05:58 PM
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/why-pursuing-mjd-would-make-no-sense-for-the-broncos

http://www.nfl.com/player/mauricejones-drew/2495831/profile

He's half way to 28 and heading into his seventh season as an RB.

If you look at most RB's their best years just happened or are this year, then it's all downhill.

If MJD was two-three years youger he'd be worth a big contract, but he's too old now. There are VERY few RB's who continue with pro-bowl level production into their 30's.

Love his fumble stat though.

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 05:59 PM
this sounds like Asante Samuel all over again

Asante Samuel?? Really? Samuel was a system zone CB that was asked to play man to man in Philadelphia how is that similar to Jones-Drew?

go_broncos
08-22-2012, 05:59 PM
We need to sign him..
We can definitely win SB with Jones Drew.

Bacchus
08-22-2012, 06:00 PM
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/why-pursuing-mjd-would-make-no-sense-for-the-broncos

http://www.nfl.com/player/mauricejones-drew/2495831/profile

He's half way to 28 and heading into his seventh season as an RB.

If you look at most RB's their best years just happened or are this year, then it's all downhill.

If MJD was two-three years youger he'd be worth a big contract, but he's too old now. There are VERY few RB's who continue with pro-bowl level production into their 30's.

sign him to a 4 year deal and he will be 31 just when RBs start to slip.

He'll be about the same age as McGhee is now

Taco John
08-22-2012, 06:24 PM
In my view, MJD is the closest thing to Priest Holmes in his prime in the league right now. I'd love to pick him up.

broncocalijohn
08-22-2012, 06:29 PM
In my view, MJD is the closest thing to Priest Holmes in his prime in the league right now. I'd love to pick him up.

Priest Holmes was run to death. I don't think MJD is quite there yet. I said it before, a 2nd, Moreno and maybe a 6th rounder for MJD.

lolcopter
08-22-2012, 06:34 PM
After we sign MJD and win the Super Bowl our pick is gonna be #32 anyway, so if it takes a 1st rounder let it ride imo

DBroncos4life
08-22-2012, 06:34 PM
Let's see how Moreno performs in this new offense. I'm not saying he's gonna be Marshall Falk, but I am saying "let's see first."
MJD has a lot of mileage on him. There is a reason that Jacksonville does not want to break the bank on the guy and it's because he's been ridden like a pony express horse over the last few years.

MJD has been flat out over used in a system that had no passing attack. I just don't see the logic in trading the farm for a guy who is on the downside of a very tough career.

Yeah lets hold off a year on a SUPER STAR RB to see if the SCRUB does something?

maven
08-22-2012, 06:38 PM
We have Manning hopefully for 3-4 years. Why not pair a top RB with him for that time? This trade makes sense, get it done John.

DENVERDUI55
08-22-2012, 07:51 PM
Let's see how Moreno performs in this new offense. I'm not saying he's gonna be Marshall Falk, but I am saying "let's see first."

MJD has a lot of mileage on him. There is a reason that Jacksonville does not want to break the bank on the guy and it's because he's been ridden like a pony express horse over the last few years.

MJD has been flat out over used in a system that had no passing attack. I just don't see the logic in trading the farm for a guy who is on the downside of a very tough career.

Moreno at best is Kevin Faulk.

Broncobiv
08-22-2012, 07:55 PM
I don't think MJD is as worn out as some people think. In his first 3 seasons, he didn't break 200 carries in any year. The following 3 have been heavy, averaging 318 per year. But it's not like he's Adrian Peterson, who has been run into the ground from day 1 in the NFL.

DBroncos4life
08-22-2012, 08:16 PM
I don't think MJD is as worn out as some people think. In his first 3 seasons, he didn't break 200 carries in any year. The following 3 have been heavy, averaging 318 per year. But it's not like he's Adrian Peterson, who has been run into the ground from day 1 in the NFL.

See you would think that more people would know this. Instead they get mad at using a draft pick for a super star or having to pay a super star money. I have never seen a group of people get so upset at the possibility of adding elite talent.

Vegas_Bronco
08-22-2012, 08:40 PM
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_vpTCBf4ckY/0.jpghttp://i.ytimg.com/vi/_vpTCBf4ckY/0.jpg

hey..i keep watching this...like funny asians and strippers

MagicHef
08-22-2012, 09:25 PM
To all those that scoff at our M.W.A. just look what it's done to the quality of your posts :)

I was as lost as you were at some of those examples.

Dree Brees breaks the single season passing record and we're calling the Saints and elite running team? And Buffalo, really Buffalo?? I'm not even sure how using a team that goes 6-10 could make any sense whatsoever.



Oh good rebuttal man, I guess when you can't argue the point you have to find something to make you feel good :clown:

Sproles, Spiller, Jackson and Thomas ran for 6.9, 5.6, 5.5, and 5.1 YPC last season, they were all good receivers, and all but Sproles were good at blocking. But I guess neither team had good RBs because... you say so?

canadianbroncosfan
08-23-2012, 02:02 AM
Sproles, Spiller, Jackson and Thomas ran for 6.9, 5.6, 5.5, and 5.1 YPC last season, they were all good receivers, and all but Sproles were good at blocking. But I guess neither team had good RBs because... you say so?

Let's review the post I was rebutting



Cleveland, Miami, and Indy had the worst play at RB, and they combined for 12 wins. New Orleans, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo had the best play at RB, and they combined for 31 wins.
.

You seem to be talking up their win total, and I was pointing out Buffalo didn't really help contribute to that.

Then you go on to talk about Pitt and Buffalo having the best play at RB when they finished 13th and 14th in rushing last year. Not really where I would rank teams with the best play at RB.

As for New Orleans, they certainly have a great running game, however I don't know if I'd call it elite and the point I was making about them is that their 13-3 record had a lot more to do with their QB than their run game.

Beantown Bronco
08-23-2012, 05:17 AM
Moreno at best is Kevin Faulk.

Insanity. Moreno has supposedly sucked so far and he already has, in two seasons worth of work, more than half as many TDs as Faulk in 13 seasons and about 40% of the yardage. Moreno's worst is already significantly better than Faulk's best.

DENVERDUI55
08-23-2012, 05:49 AM
Insanity. Moreno has supposedly sucked so far and he already has, in two seasons worth of work, more than half as many TDs as Faulk in 13 seasons and about 40% of the yardage. Moreno's worst is already significantly better than Faulk's best.

Moreneo at worst doesn't help Denver one bit. That means his vagina is bruised and he is sitting on sideline.

2KBack
08-23-2012, 05:54 AM
Yeah lets hold off a year on a SUPER STAR RB to see if the SCRUB does something?

MJD wasn't even a starter until his 4th season. Moreno has played 3 so far. Hell if it wasn't for the ACL tear, Moreno and MJD's first few seasons were looking pretty similar. Is it just Bronco players that are scrubs if they aren't probowlers in their first couple seasons?

Beantown Bronco
08-23-2012, 06:10 AM
Moreneo at worst doesn't help Denver one bit. That means his vagina is bruised and he is sitting on sideline.

A simple "you're right" would've done just fine.

DENVERDUI55
08-23-2012, 06:12 AM
MJD wasn't even a starter until his 4th season. Moreno has played 3 so far. Hell if it wasn't for the ACL tear, Moreno and MJD's first few seasons were looking pretty similar. Is it just Bronco players that are scrubs if they aren't probowlers in their first couple seasons?

Except MJD was clearly a starter and showed it in his limited carries. Moreno is a fringe roster player. How many 100 yard games did the 2 of them have over the first 3 years? How many TD's? I know MJD has been in double digit TD's quite a bit. They aren't even close.

DENVERDUI55
08-23-2012, 06:14 AM
A simple "you're right" would've done just fine.
When Moreno is in the league for 13 years you may have an argument. At this pace he will be jobless sooner than later. Guys love to argue with stats. Moreno was drafted to be a stud RB and couldn't be farther from that.

razorwire77
08-23-2012, 06:19 AM
Love it when people rally around and defend a running back that was drafted top 15, but who in camp, can't beat out Lance Ball and an injured 3rd round draft pick whose never played in a game

2KBack
08-23-2012, 06:23 AM
Except MJD was clearly a starter and showed it in his limited carries. Moreno is a fringe roster player. How many 100 yard games did the 2 of them have over the first 3 years? How many TD's? I know MJD has been in double digit TD's quite a bit. They aren't even close.

That's the same logic that made people want Tatum Bell as our starter, those change up backs tend to get the big YPC, it comes down to earth when you have to start pounding on 1st and 2nd down.

You are correct that MJD has had a nose for the endszone, 3 times over 10 rushing TD's in his career, not last season when he was "The best back in the game" though. He also has played in a running focused offense his entire career. Moreno played in the McD offense. We should be over the moon over his production in that system honestly. Moreno has more receiving TD's over their first 3 seasons though.

I'm not arguing that MJD isn't currently a better runner. I'm arguing that what he brings isn't really worth what Denver would likely have to pay. I know you hate Moreno, but the reality is, with him we have the stable of backs necessary to produce equally or better than what we would with MJD.

razorwire77
08-23-2012, 06:29 AM
That's the same logic that made people want Tatum Bell as our starter, those change up backs tend to get the big YPC, it comes down to earth when you have to start pounding on 1st and 2nd down.

You are correct that MJD has had a nose for the endszone, 3 times over 10 rushing TD's in his career, not last season when he was "The best back in the game" though. He also has played in a running focused offense his entire career. Moreno played in the McD offense. We should be over the moon over his production in that system honestly. Moreno has more receiving TD's over their first 3 seasons though.

I'm not arguing that MJD isn't currently a better runner. I'm arguing that what he brings isn't really worth what Denver would likely have to pay. I know you hate Moreno, but the reality is, with him we have the stable of backs necessary to produce equally or better than what we would with MJD.
Hilarious!
Forget stats. Kyle Orton was once on pace to throw for 5,600 yards in McD's offense. Pick 5 random games and watch how MJD runs, and then pick 5 random games and watch how Moreno, Ball, Johnson, and (fill-in-the-blank) camp fodder runs. And then tell me we would get equal meaningful production.

Beantown Bronco
08-23-2012, 06:31 AM
When Moreno is in the league for 13 years you may have an argument. At this pace he will be jobless sooner than later. Guys love to argue with stats. Moreno was drafted to be a stud RB and couldn't be farther from that.

Don't like stats? Fine. I'd love to hear what criteria you are grading them on to say that Faulk's worst is better than Moreno's best. Longevity?

Beantown Bronco
08-23-2012, 06:33 AM
Love it when people rally around and defend a running back that was drafted top 15, but who in camp, can't beat out Lance Ball and an injured 3rd round draft pick whose never played in a game

Can't beat them out? It's camp mind games....early preseason reps and depth charts are fairly meaningless. He's superior to both and will prove it during the regular season when he's the one out there instead of those two guys.

DENVERDUI55
08-23-2012, 06:38 AM
Don't like stats? Fine. I'd love to hear what criteria you are grading them on to say that Faulk's worst is better than Moreno's best. Longevity?

They are the same back is all I'm saying. Part time 3rd down back that are average runners, good in pass protection and good catching passes. Moreno can't stay heathy though and is worthless dancing behind the LOS. I can't wait for the day he is cut.

2KBack
08-23-2012, 06:39 AM
Hilarious!
Forget stats. Kyle Orton was once on pace to throw for 5,600 yards in McD's offense. Pick 5 random games and watch how MJD runs, and then pick 5 random games and watch how Moreno, Ball, Johnson, and (fill-in-the-blank) camp fodder runs. And then tell me we would get equal meaningful production.

I don't have to. Taking out Tebows stats (which likely stole carries and TD's from RB's) here is combined production in 2011:

Denver's Running backs produced 1857 yards 4.7ypc 5 rushing TD's and 3 receiving.

Jax combined for 1736yds 3.5ypc 8 rush TD's and 3 receiving.

Stats is how you manage production, especially "meaningful" production. Not how someone looks.

Beantown Bronco
08-23-2012, 06:57 AM
They are the same back is all I'm saying. Part time 3rd down back that are average runners, good in pass protection and good catching passes. Moreno can't stay heathy though and is worthless dancing behind the LOS. I can't wait for the day he is cut.

Moreno was extremely productive in 2009 and 2010 running behind what amounted to one of the worst OLines in the league (if not THE worst). How soon we forget that he was among the all time NFL leaders in yards after contact in the backfield and was regularly able to make something out of nothing.

Had he been running behind a competent line, nobody here would be questioning him.

Quoydogs
08-23-2012, 07:04 AM
I don't have to. Taking out Tebows stats (which likely stole carries and TD's from RB's) here is combined production in 2011:

Denver's Running backs produced 1857 yards 4.7ypc 5 rushing TD's and 3 receiving.

Jax combined for 1736yds 3.5ypc 8 rush TD's and 3 receiving.

Stats is how you manage production, especially "meaningful" production. Not how someone looks.

Tebow took a defender away, so those yards would drop way down with out him. Lucky for us Peyton is a stud and everyone will have to play pass so I think our yards should stay about the same. But that is not a fair comparison.

DENVERDUI55
08-23-2012, 07:09 AM
Moreno was extremely productive in 2009 and 2010 running behind what amounted to one of the worst OLines in the league (if not THE worst). How soon we forget that he was among the all time NFL leaders in yards after contact in the backfield and was regularly able to make something out of nothing.

Had he been running behind a competent line, nobody here would be questioning him.

How many 100 yard games did he have? There are plenty of RB's that produced a lot more than Slowshon. Hell someone compared him to MJD and look what he did last year with no passing game and a junk OL. Moreno is a very average RB that you could find in a slew of UDFA rookie RB's everyyear. Disclaimer Slowshon has played well against KC in his career.

socalorado
08-23-2012, 07:19 AM
How many 100 yard games did he have? There are plenty of RB's that produced a lot more than Slowshon. Hell someone compared him to MJD and look what he did last year with no passing game and a junk OL. Moreno is a very average RB that you could find in a slew of UDFA rookie RB's everyyear. Disclaimer Slowshon has played well against KC in his career.

And as a bonus Slowshon can celebrate in the end zone like its nobodys buisness! Especially when down by 30 with 3 minutes to go in the game.

Nwp-Apap
08-23-2012, 07:21 AM
How many 100 yard games did he have? There are plenty of RB's that produced a lot more than Slowshon. Hell someone compared him to MJD and look what he did last year with no passing game and a junk OL. Moreno is a very average RB that you could find in a slew of UDFA rookie RB's everyyear. Disclaimer Slowshon has played well against KC in his career.

Are you even above the legal drinking age?

Your posts lack maturity and reason.

Beantown Bronco
08-23-2012, 07:21 AM
How many 100 yard games did he have? There are plenty of RB's that produced a lot more than Slowshon.

How many of them were running behind the worst line in the league?

Moreno is a very average RB that you could find in a slew of UDFA rookie RB's everyyear.

Weird. Cause out of the 50 or so RBs listed in his entire draft class, I see only two that have had a better career thus far.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009RB.php

DENVERDUI55
08-23-2012, 07:29 AM
How many of them were running behind the worst line in the league?



Weird. Cause out of the 50 or so RBs listed in his entire draft class, I see only two that have had a better career thus far.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009RB.php

Beanie Wells
Arian Foster
Leshon McCoy
Shonn Greene
Donald Brown is about par.

Which 2 do you put ahead of Slowshon?

Rabb
08-23-2012, 07:38 AM
I will give Moreno a pass for the run blocking a couple years ago but the last year or even this preseason he has looked inept while guys like Omon and McGahee look fine. He just is not a good overall running back.

I know it's armchair QB, but the thought of where we drafted him makes me sick.

2KBack
08-23-2012, 07:39 AM
Tebow took a defender away, so those yards would drop way down with out him. Lucky for us Peyton is a stud and everyone will have to play pass so I think our yards should stay about the same. But that is not a fair comparison.

It balances out. There was some misdirection to argue that Tebow positively affected the RB's production. At the same time, team played run almost exclusively and Tebows carries subtracted from the RB's carries. So it is basically a wash

Beantown Bronco
08-23-2012, 07:46 AM
Beanie Wells
Arian Foster
Leshon McCoy
Shonn Greene
Donald Brown is about par.

Which 2 do you put ahead of Slowshon?

Clearly, McCoy and Foster

2KBack
08-23-2012, 07:49 AM
I will give Moreno a pass for the run blocking a couple years ago but the last year or even this preseason he has looked inept while guys like Omon and McGahee look fine. He just is not a good overall running back.

I know it's armchair QB, but the thought of where we drafted him makes me sick.

He started looking pretty good once we switched up the offense with Tebow, he just got hurt. As for this preseason, he was just as effective as anyone else in his limited time in game 1, then got 1 total carry in game 2 and was met in the back field (like every other runner in that game not playing with the 1st team Oline).

Beantown Bronco
08-23-2012, 07:54 AM
I will give Moreno a pass for the run blocking a couple years ago but the last year or even this preseason he has looked inept while guys like Omon and McGahee look fine.

Moreno had the exact same ypc as McGahee last year.

Rabb
08-23-2012, 07:58 AM
Moreno had the exact same ypc as McGahee last year.

come on Bean, I know you are better than to cherry pick stats...

Eddie Royal averaged more YPC than everyone last year followed by Jeremiah Johnson, Tebow, DT and then McGahee/Moreno. That doesn't mean they are better RB options.

Rabb
08-23-2012, 08:00 AM
(like every other runner in that game not playing with the 1st team Oline).

try again

Beantown Bronco
08-23-2012, 08:05 AM
come on Bean, I know you are better than to cherry pick stats...

Eddie Royal averaged more YPC than everyone last year followed by Jeremiah Johnson, Tebow, DT and then McGahee/Moreno. That doesn't mean they are better RB options.

It's actually the most comparable stat for two running backs when one goes down early on in the season and has limited carries.

Obviously, comparing that stat between a RB and a WR or QB is not valid. But these guys were playing the same position, running behind the same Oline, in the same situations. There is certainly some value there.

DENVERDUI55
08-23-2012, 08:24 AM
Clearly, McCoy and Foster

Everyone of them is and has been better than slowshon. Brown is about the same.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-23-2012, 08:34 AM
I understand the arguement for Moreno. But yards after and good stats(not seeing it) are all wiped out by the one common denominator. Injury. I can GUARANTEE he will be hurt and out in due time. It happens EVERY year. This last injury was his worst. He breaks down on a consistent basis. That trait does not work for RB. What's the point of him beating out ball and Hillman when both will have to replace him when it counts the most?

razorwire77
08-23-2012, 08:38 AM
Let me preface this by saying I was an advocate of drafting Moreno at 12 in 2009. His highlight tape indicated that he was dynamic in space, wasn't afraid to run between the tackles and always finished his runs with authority. He also was an above average pass catching back and blocker for his size. I envisioned him as being in the mold of Marshall Faulk or LT, just with less top end speed. That being said, for whatever reason those abilities didn't translate to the NFL. I don't know if it's injuries, or peds, or both, but it's like he's an entirely different player than he was at Georgia. I really don't need to cherry pick stats, or compare him to back x or back y in his draft class, I just watch how he's run his entire career here.

Whenever he catches an edge, or there is a hole that breaks outside, he simply doesn't have the explosiveness to exploit the play. Sure, he might get 4 yards or 5 yards, but with that same hole, a Mike Anderson, or even an Orlandus Gary would have broken off 15, 20 yards. He's developed some really bad habits between the tackles too. He dances way too much. I can't stand another year of watching him do his Fred Flinstone bowling impersonation as he gets tackled after a one-yard gain. At this point he's the antithesis of the type of one cut and go back that we need.

Beantown Bronco
08-23-2012, 08:38 AM
Everyone of them is and has been better than slowshon. Brown is about the same.

Please. Provide evidence, because I've looked at the numbers and how they're viewed by their teams and I'm not seeing it.

Brown the same? Maybe if you ignore the 800 fewer all purpose yards and the fact that he has half the TDs as Knowshon. Other than that, though, they're clearly the same.

Beantown Bronco
08-23-2012, 08:47 AM
I really don't need to cherry pick stats, or compare him to back x or back y in his draft class, I just watch how he's run his entire career here.

This is the Orangemane anti-Moreno argument in a nutshell. "I don't care how good his numbers might actually be.....or how well he compares to the other RBs in his draft class. I just care how he makes me feel when I watch him."

Rabb
08-23-2012, 08:48 AM
I absolutely get what you are saying Bean and I agree...he has looked pretty good at times. I just don't know how anyone can look at the entire career of this kid so far and feel good about it.

I would love nothing more than for him to work out, he just isn't a good running back most of the time.

BroncoBen
08-23-2012, 08:49 AM
Let me preface this by saying I was an advocate of drafting Moreno at 12 in 2009. His highlight tape indicated that he was dynamic in space, wasn't afraid to run between the tackles and always finished his runs with authority. He also was an above average pass catching back and blocker for his size. I envisioned him as being in the mold of Marshall Faulk or LT, just with less top end speed. That being said, for whatever reason those abilities didn't translate to the NFL. I don't know if it's injuries, or peds, or both, but it's like he's an entirely different player than he was at Georgia. I really don't need to cherry pick stats, or compare him to back x or back y in his draft class, I just watch how he's run his entire career here.

Whenever he catches an edge, or there is a hole that breaks outside, he simply doesn't have the explosiveness to exploit the play. Sure, he might get 4 yards or 5 yards, but with that same hole, a Mike Anderson, or even an Orlandus Gary would have broken off 15, 20 yards. He's developed some really bad habits between the tackles too. He dances way too much. I can't stand another year of watching him do his Fred Flinstone bowling impersonation as he gets tackled after a one-yard gain. At this point he's the antithesis of the type of one cut and go back that we need.

Very good take... :thumbs:

I also watched a lot of Knowshon Moreno when he played at Georgia, he was never a home run threat but he would consistently get you 5-6 yards at a minimum, and would break tackles to pick up 10-15 yards.

No sure why now he tends to go down on the 1st hit, or what is up with the dancing at the line of scrimmage.

I think the Broncos pretty much know what Moreno can do at the NFL level. Which is proving to be .. not much.