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Broncoman13
08-19-2012, 09:08 AM
Possibly another WR as well... Maybe Jordan Shipley?

Woodyard at WLB just isn't a playmaker. Need some production there. At least someone that can make an occasional play. RB2 is a big problem right now. Was really hoping to see Hilman be that guy, but he can't get healthy. For a RB that is dependent on speed and elusiveness, a hammy injury can be hugely problematic... Look how many injuries Knowshon has dealt with.

Any teams out there with an abundance of RBs or LBs? Wouldn't be surprised to see the Broncos pick up one of the backs the Seahawks cut.

Jekyll15Hyde
08-19-2012, 09:13 AM
I endorse this thread. Would love to see them move Knowshon for a legit starting WR

SonOfLe-loLang
08-19-2012, 09:24 AM
I endorse this thread. Would love to see them move Knowshon for a legit starting WR

Who will give us a "legit starting receiver" for KNowshon?

Plus i dont even think thats near our biggest concern.

Jekyll15Hyde
08-19-2012, 09:29 AM
Who will give us a "legit starting receiver" for KNowshon?

Plus i dont even think thats near our biggest concern.

Fair points. We would be lucky to get a conditional 4th/5th for Knowshon. I was dreaming out lout a little. LB concerns me more than a 3rd WR

cutthemdown
08-19-2012, 10:18 AM
I doubt Broncos can make any moves that will really help the team at this point. Maybe a journeyman.

theAPAOps5
08-19-2012, 10:24 AM
Possibly another WR as well... Maybe Jordan Shipley?

Woodyard at WLB just isn't a playmaker. Need some production there. At least someone that can make an occasional play. RB2 is a big problem right now. Was really hoping to see Hilman be that guy, but he can't get healthy. For a RB that is dependent on speed and elusiveness, a hammy injury can be hugely problematic... Look how many injuries Knowshon has dealt with.

Any teams out there with an abundance of RBs or LBs? Wouldn't be surprised to see the Broncos pick up one of the backs the Seahawks cut.

Our LB will be a huge liability this year.

gyldenlove
08-19-2012, 10:29 AM
Our LB will be a huge liability this year.

I think the hope is that the offense and pass rush will put other teams in a position where our linebackers do not have to be difference makers - this is a team that is very much geared towards air superiority, not a way of attrition on the ground.

theAPAOps5
08-19-2012, 10:36 AM
I think the hope is that the offense and pass rush will put other teams in a position where our linebackers do not have to be difference makers - this is a team that is very much geared towards air superiority, not a way of attrition on the ground.

Any coverage requirement by our LB's will trouble. I think Woodyard is not horrid but not great either. Von is a pass rush LB, and Joe Mays can play the run but he also gets caught in coverage.

On D that unit will be a liability at times this season.

Tombstone RJ
08-19-2012, 10:39 AM
Possibly another WR as well... Maybe Jordan Shipley?

Woodyard at WLB just isn't a playmaker. Need some production there. At least someone that can make an occasional play. RB2 is a big problem right now. Was really hoping to see Hilman be that guy, but he can't get healthy. For a RB that is dependent on speed and elusiveness, a hammy injury can be hugely problematic... Look how many injuries Knowshon has dealt with.

Any teams out there with an abundance of RBs or LBs? Wouldn't be surprised to see the Broncos pick up one of the backs the Seahawks cut.

sky is falling!!

hey, it's a preseason game homey.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-19-2012, 10:41 AM
Brady destroyed the defense with TEs. Antonio Gates will be lickin his chops. I'd rather have an extra CB in there than one of these liability LBs.

Tombstone RJ
08-19-2012, 10:50 AM
I'm more concerned with the defensive line. If they can produce, the LBers will be ok. Remember, Travathen didn't play.

Irving looked fine, sure, he whiffed on a tackle but what LBer doesn't occassionally do that?

I'll answer that for you--every friggen LBer in the NFL has done that at one time or another.

razorwire77
08-19-2012, 10:53 AM
At this point, you've pretty much gotta run with the horses you've got.

No team is going to give anything or anyone of significance for Moreno. And at this point, he's going to make the roster by default anyway. The best we can hope for is that Hillman recovers and flashes enough ability to be the no. 2 back by the season opener.

At WLB, I hate to say it, but you've gotta keep D.J. in the loop for the rest of the year. Say he gets an 8 game suspension and the Broncos go 4-4, or 5-3 in that stretch, you still get him back in an attempt to go 10-6 and nab the West or a Wildcard. D.J.'s a jackass, but he's the best WLB on the team. . . That being said, you draft WLB in the first round next year and cut or trade DJ's ass in 2013.

cutthemdown
08-19-2012, 10:57 AM
Any coverage requirement by our LB's will trouble. I think Woodyard is not horrid but not great either. Von is a pass rush LB, and Joe Mays can play the run but he also gets caught in coverage.

On D that unit will be a liability at times this season.

Mays is good at dropping deep in the cover 2 type zones. And pretty good in all zone defending. Not good if he has to chase a TE across the field or stay with a rb 1 on 1. Woodyard I think IMO looks sort of lost in zones, seems to be with his guy in man to man situations but then never makes a play. Like he is there but just doesn't stop the completion.

Miller I can't say that I notice that stuff as much. Seems like he is always rushing the passer to me. I know he isn't, but really haven't watched much of him dropping back and covering. Would have to go back and find those plays.

Broncos_OTM
08-19-2012, 11:18 AM
Seattle is a good team, they are strong getting to the edges. its gonna kill us. as of this moment. I rank needs as WLB, MLB, WR, RB TE.

Tombstone RJ
08-19-2012, 11:31 AM
Seattle is a good team, they are strong getting to the edges. its gonna kill us. as of this moment. I rank needs as WLB, MLB, WR, RB TE.

Seattle's first team didn't do much against the Broncos and IF the Broncos hadn't turned the Ball over the score would be much different.

Russell Wilson killed the Broncos period. He pulled some amazing plays out of his ass and consequently made the Broncos pay big time.

Kudos to Wilson. Otherwise, nothing special by the seahawks.

lonestar
08-19-2012, 11:47 AM
Our LB will be a huge liability this year.

Why? because numbnuts is sitting more than half the year? If that is you case then your going to be surprised..

We will not be any worse than we were last year, but probably better now that we actually have a decent DL for a change..

Dedhed
08-19-2012, 11:56 AM
Mays is good at dropping deep in the cover 2 type zones. And pretty good in all zone defending.
lulz

DBroncos4life
08-19-2012, 12:10 PM
Grant or Addai would be nice.

NFLBRONCO
08-19-2012, 12:17 PM
Seattle is a good team, they are strong getting to the edges. its gonna kill us. as of this moment. I rank needs as WLB, MLB, WR, RB TE.

I think TE position is not a need otherwise I agree with your list.

Hamrob
08-19-2012, 12:22 PM
It's time to bid good-bye to Studs! Lance Ball sucks! For the Broncos to head into the regular season...with him as our #2...says a lot!

Look around and try to find a #2 back as talent deprived as Ball? Good luck!

It doesn't get much better after Ball (oman & Morneo...Yuk!)....and a 3rd round mini-mouse RB who can't get on the field. Sounds like the Colts running game to me. We had better hope that Magahee holds up.

Our LB's....very poor overall. We will have hell all year against the run and covering intermediate routes. This could be a huge issue for us...if teams keep the ball 6:00/7:00 a clip. Mays would not start anywhere else...neither would Woodyard...enough said!

Pleasant surprise....our Dline! They look sharp...and if our secondary can stay healthy, they're not bad either.

Hamrob
08-19-2012, 12:26 PM
Seattle's first team didn't do much against the Broncos and IF the Broncos hadn't turned the Ball over the score would be much different.

Russell Wilson killed the Broncos period. He pulled some amazing plays out of his ass and consequently made the Broncos pay big time.

Kudos to Wilson. Otherwise, nothing special by the seahawks.Well said. Seattle is probably a 6 win team. They have a lot of talent...but you can only start 11 guys on each side of the ball. The most important position, QB...they are below average (Flynn). Wilson played exceptional for a rookie against everyone's 2's and 3's....but, he's no better than Flynn.

The difference between Flynn and Peyton? 4-6 games in my opinion.

cutthemdown
08-19-2012, 12:29 PM
lulz

Whatever I agree he struggles really bad once he is one on one but I think his deep drop in the cover 2 is pretty solid. Still I agree we need a better MLB for the defense to really be good.

razorwire77
08-19-2012, 01:17 PM
It's time to bid good-bye to Studs! Lance Ball sucks! For the Broncos to head into the regular season...with him as our #2...says a lot!

Look around and try to find a #2 back as talent deprived as Ball? Good luck!

It doesn't get much better after Ball (oman & Morneo...Yuk!)....and a 3rd round mini-mouse RB who can't get on the field. Sounds like the Colts running game to me. We had better hope that Magahee holds up.


You can't really make chicken salad out of chicken ****. Aside from Willis, that's basically what we have. Denver invested a top 15 pick at RB. . .a guy that was pretty much the consensus top back coming out and he wasn't nearly as good as he looked coming out of college. In retrospect, running a 4.6 40 at 195 pounds should have been a red flag. The guy just doesn't have the ability to be a featured RB in the NFL, or even the ability to be an effective change of pace co-featured back. So. . . ., they drafted his replacement in the 3rd round this year and the kid can't get on the field. None of this is really Stud's fault. I still think Hillman is going to be the type of explosive change of pace back that this team needs, but he needs to get reps in games and learn how pick up the blitz in passing situations.

lonestar
08-19-2012, 01:45 PM
At this point, you've pretty much gotta run with the horses you've got.

No team is going to give anything or anyone of significance for Moreno. And at this point, he's going to make the roster by default anyway. The best we can hope for is that Hillman recovers and flashes enough ability to be the no. 2 back by the season opener.

At WLB, I hate to say it, but you've gotta keep D.J. in the loop for the rest of the year. Say he gets an 8 game suspension and the Broncos go 4-4, or 5-3 in that stretch, you still get him back in an attempt to go 10-6 and nab the West or a Wildcard. D.J.'s a jackass, but he's the best WLB on the team. . . That being said, you draft WLB in the first round next year and cut or trade DJ's ass in 2013.

DJ is not that great a WLB why is everyone hung up on this guys nuts?

Because he lead the team in Tackles? Anyone ever stop to think they may be running/going at him because they know they are going to get the first down even if he does make that tackle?

In his 8 years in the NFL he has had 4 years where he has had more than 100 total tackles.. and 2 solo over 100..

in 2011 of the top 50 LB's the mid #25 range was 104 tackles..
in 2010 of the top 50 LB's the mid range was 105 tackles..
in 2009 of the top 50 LB's the mid range was 106 tackles..
in 2008 of the top 50 LB's the mid range was 105 tackles..
in 2007 of the top 50 LB's the mid range was 109 tackles..
in 2006 of the top 50 LB's the mid range was 109 tackles..

DJ has averaged 101 over that time frame below number 25 for each year..
If you just look at mid range top 50 average he is below that..

Why is everyone hanging on his nuts..

If he was popping guys at the LOS or making lots of tackles for a loss I could see it..

But I've been watching this skell for most of his career and rarely does he make a tackle that he is not dragging someone down from behind after they have made 2-6 yards..

They thought at one time he could make a great MLB.. Until they found out as mike he could not call plays to the front 7 even in some cases when they called it into him headset.. and was incapable of making adjustments when the O changed something.


Yes he does make loads of tackles, has even led the team a couple of years.. But I suspect that said more about the other LBs than it does about how great he is..

Or better yet just how bad the DL has been..

As for him being ready to play after his 8-10 weeks suspension, he can not practice with the team so will not know any adjustments made in his absence, he will not be in any sort of football shape probably take a couple of more weeks for that to happen..

Now should we cut him now? no need as he does not cost us anything roster spot wise. maybe not even salary (although I seem to remember that the suspended players salary goes to NFL charities) therefore Pat still has to write them a check for it..

Kaylore
08-19-2012, 03:12 PM
Omon is ineligible for the practice squad, no? Isn't it two years and that's it?

oubronco
08-19-2012, 03:35 PM
They should've tried harder to sign Mclain away from the Ratbirds

Hamrob
08-19-2012, 03:46 PM
You can't really make chicken salad out of chicken ****. Aside from Willis, that's basically what we have. Denver invested a top 15 pick at RB. . .a guy that was pretty much the consensus top back coming out and he wasn't nearly as good as he looked coming out of college. In retrospect, running a 4.6 40 at 195 pounds should have been a red flag. The guy just doesn't have the ability to be a featured RB in the NFL, or even the ability to be an effective change of pace co-featured back. So. . . ., they drafted his replacement in the 3rd round this year and the kid can't get on the field. None of this is really Stud's fault. I still think Hillman is going to be the type of explosive change of pace back that this team needs, but he needs to get reps in games and learn how pick up the blitz in passing situations.I'm not sure why we didn't get a guy like Cedric Benson to help with depth. I mean...he's a hell of a lot better than what we have backing up Magahee. I know Ball plays special teams...but, he's the definition of below-average.

Rascal
08-19-2012, 04:18 PM
Possibly another WR as well... Maybe Jordan Shipley?

Woodyard at WLB just isn't a playmaker. Need some production there. At least someone that can make an occasional play. RB2 is a big problem right now. Was really hoping to see Hilman be that guy, but he can't get healthy. For a RB that is dependent on speed and elusiveness, a hammy injury can be hugely problematic... Look how many injuries Knowshon has dealt with.

Any teams out there with an abundance of RBs or LBs? Wouldn't be surprised to see the Broncos pick up one of the backs the Seahawks cut.

I would rather address the o-line depth

Mogulseeker
08-19-2012, 04:39 PM
I hope Knowshon makes the roster because due to injury we havent really SEEN him asaide from his rookie season.

He wasn't this injury prone in college...

razorwire77
08-19-2012, 04:56 PM
I'm not sure why we didn't get a guy like Cedric Benson to help with depth. I mean...he's a hell of a lot better than what we have backing up Magahee. I know Ball plays special teams...but, he's the definition of below-average.

Funny you mention that. Watched the game last night with a buddy. He said pretty much the exact same thing. "Why the hell didn't they give a guy like Benson a look?"

RB should be the one position where you can find serviceable veteran guys to be productive in a 10-12 carry situation and yet for some reason the Broncos find themselves with Willis Mcgahee (Good, but another year older)

an unproven and injured 3rd round rookie question-mark and pretty much crap after that.

ZONA
08-19-2012, 05:14 PM
LB's Woodyard and Mays are the biggest weakness on this defense. I'll be happy to see DJ back.

In a perfect world, you want your #2 RB to be pushing the #1 RB. You almost want a "RB controversy". We're so far away from that it's not even funny. And our best RB is getting up there and has a totally rebuilt knee.

Every RB on this team after McGahee can be replaced. Yes we haven't seen Hillman yet so I'm not gonna throw him in there. We could swap out all the others with guys from different teams when the cuts are made and I doubt you would be worse off then you are now. That's how bad our back up RB position is right now.

pricejj
08-19-2012, 05:35 PM
Omon is ineligible for the practice squad, no? Isn't it two years and that's it?

yep

razorwire77
08-19-2012, 05:53 PM
LB's Woodyard and Mays are the biggest weakness on this defense. I'll be happy to see DJ back.

In a perfect world, you want your #2 RB to be pushing the #1 RB. You almost want a "RB controversy". We're so far away from that it's not even funny. And our best RB is getting up there and has a totally rebuilt knee.

Every RB on this team after McGahee can be replaced. Yes we haven't seen Hillman yet so I'm not gonna throw him in there. We could swap out all the others with guys from different teams when the cuts are made and I doubt you would be worse off then you are now. That's how bad our back up RB position is right now.

and honestly, it's inexcusable. It's not like finding a RB is like finding a 2 gap DT, or franchise QB. It was pretty clear during the off-season that Fox and Elway weren't enamored with Sauced, so they drafted a speed back fairly high, but why not get a Benson, or a Brandon Jacobs, or a Bush, or a Hillis? Why not do this to hedge against the likely scenario that he's not going to make it the entire season without getting hurt.

kdissette
08-19-2012, 06:07 PM
yeah benson wouldve been a perfect signing and then hillman could be the special circumstances guy...that way we couldve shipped moreno out of town or cut him and actually took time to focus on our Olines needs now we have a banged up oline and a less than stellar RB situation. If Mcgahee gets injured i think manning might be thinking hes bit off more than he can chew.

cutthemdown
08-19-2012, 06:08 PM
Rome wasn't built in a day. Elway turning things around but there was no way to fill all the holes. Besides Hillman could still produce this yr. Also There will be a round of Rbs cut and like you all said we are just talking about a bkup. Mcgahee looks good.

Drek
08-19-2012, 06:11 PM
Rome wasn't built in a day. Elway turning things around but there was no way to fill all the holes. Besides Hillman could still produce this yr. Also There will be a round of Rbs cut and like you all said we are just talking about a bkup. Mcgahee looks good.

Yep, no way we could have addressed WOLB in the draft.

DBroncos4life
08-19-2012, 06:16 PM
Yep, no way we could have addressed WOLB in the draft.

We drafted one.

Drek
08-19-2012, 06:20 PM
We drafted one.

Very late, sure. As opposed to adding one with real day one starter potential earlier in the draft when we were instead making luxury picks.

Hulamau
08-19-2012, 06:20 PM
Possibly another WR as well... Maybe Jordan Shipley?

Woodyard at WLB just isn't a playmaker. Need some production there. At least someone that can make an occasional play. RB2 is a big problem right now. Was really hoping to see Hilman be that guy, but he can't get healthy. For a RB that is dependent on speed and elusiveness, a hammy injury can be hugely problematic... Look how many injuries Knowshon has dealt with.

Any teams out there with an abundance of RBs or LBs? Wouldn't be surprised to see the Broncos pick up one of the backs the Seahawks cut.


Relax ...Hillman had no history of on-going hammy problems in college. This is the first one I've heard of and he simply re-tweaked it by coming back a few days to a week too soon. Happens all the time.


Saying "Hillman would be nice 'but he cant stay healthy' is such an overreaction and mis-characterization of the facts here.

Patience is a real virtue in training camp and pre-season before getting too bent out of shape and worried over one preseason game's performance.

Trevathan looks like an excellent candidate to be the sure tackler and WLB plug-in stud we need for now as well.

So both of your weaknesses may not at all be so weak as you imagine.

Sure I would love two #1 RBs and a true Stud WLB too ... maybe Hillman will provide that kind of spark with McGahee? Same too with Trevathan .. I think this kid is a real player but just needs a little time and patience from the fans and coaches to get comfortable with the NFL.

I have little doubt that Fox and Stub see big things with Hillman when he is on the field.

And if Trevathan doesn't quite qualify as a stud WLB this season, at least he can be a reliable WLB that can be consistent. It's a shame he sprained his ankle in last weeks game, but he will be back soon enough and given some time to get up to speed with the pro game, its a safe bet he is gonna be a keeper.

DBroncos4life
08-19-2012, 06:29 PM
Very late, sure. As opposed to adding one with real day one starter potential earlier in the draft when we were instead making luxury picks.

Or just say we didn't draft who I wanted so I'm not happy about it. Don't tell me about David being the better 2nd round pick either over Oz because that would have been my choice as well. We did address the WOLB via the draft and you claimed we didn't.

Bmore Manning
08-19-2012, 06:45 PM
I don't know the history of this team like you guys.. But I can recognize talent and holes. I made a FA post calling for Jake Scott G, Hawthorne LB, a veteran safety and took serious **** on here..

Here we are a few months later this team picked up Leonard for safety which I thought was solid. Still need that guard and LB.. But everyone said we were good Bmore Manning, you don't know what your talking about..

Scott's around.. And to play LB... At this point Ernie Simms WLB? Or Gary Brackett MLB? Not too too keen on these LB options.

lonestar
08-19-2012, 06:57 PM
LB's Woodyard and Mays are the biggest weakness on this defense. I'll be happy to see DJ back.

In a perfect world, you want your #2 RB to be pushing the #1 RB. You almost want a "RB controversy". We're so far away from that it's not even funny. And our best RB is getting up there and has a totally rebuilt knee.

Every RB on this team after McGahee can be replaced. Yes we haven't seen Hillman yet so I'm not gonna throw him in there. We could swap out all the others with guys from different teams when the cuts are made and I doubt you would be worse off then you are now. That's how bad our back up RB position is right now.

I'm guessing you have more experience judging talent than JDR has..

You seem to forget that other teams wanted Mays, and other than sacks WW stats last year were better than Djs were..

Other than tha fact MAys was given a reasonably fat contract at the behest of John, John and Jack.. Just maybe they know something you do not..

I just love it whan armchair GM's and HC's second guess the pros ..

SoCalBronco
08-19-2012, 07:02 PM
Yep, no way we could have addressed WOLB in the draft.

Denver had a great chance to select Sean Spence who will play 10 years in this league.

lonestar
08-19-2012, 07:04 PM
and honestly, it's inexcusable. It's not like finding a RB is like finding a 2 gap DT, or franchise QB. It was pretty clear during the off-season that Fox and Elway weren't enamored with Sauced, so they drafted a speed back fairly high, but why not get a Benson, or a Brandon Jacobs, or a Bush, or a Hillis? Why not do this to hedge against the likely scenario that he's not going to make it the entire season without getting hurt.

see the post above this..

you just might want to trust the guys that have been hired to do the job, that or apply to Pat Bowlen..

You might want to think they are not planning on running all that much..That was the first thing that went through my mind..

PLus for the most part RB's ar e a dime a dozen, more than one will be cut between now and mid sept..


They liked what they saw with Hillman and if you think he was drafted to carry the rock 20 times a game after it was handed off to him then you're not thinking with anything but your johnson..

lonestar
08-19-2012, 07:06 PM
Rome wasn't built in a day. Elway turning things around but there was no way to fill all the holes. Besides Hillman could still produce this yr. Also There will be a round of Rbs cut and like you all said we are just talking about a bkup. Mcgahee looks good.

WHOOPS THERE YOU GO THINKING AGAIN..

SOmething that is not allowed on this forum..

Only so much money to spend.. only so many rosters spots yet the geniuses on here think the broncos are exempt from it all..

lonestar
08-19-2012, 07:07 PM
We drafted one.

WHOOPS that one got by everyone..

:thumbs:

Broncoman13
08-19-2012, 07:09 PM
Relax ...Hillman had no history of on-going hammy problems in college. This is the first one I've heard of and he simply re-tweaked it by coming back a few days to a week too soon. Happens all the time.


Saying "Hillman would be nice 'but he cant stay healthy' is such an overreaction and mis-characterization of the facts here.

Patience is a real virtue in training camp and pre-season before getting too bent out of shape and worried over one preseason game's performance.

Trevathan looks like an excellent candidate to be the sure tackler and WLB plug-in stud we need for now as well.

So both of your weaknesses may not at all be so weak as you imagine.

Sure I would love two #1 RBs and a true Stud WLB too ... maybe Hillman will provide that kind of spark with McGahee? Same too with Trevathan .. I think this kid is a real player but just needs a little time and patience from the fans and coaches to get comfortable with the NFL.

I have little doubt that Fox and Stub see big things with Hillman when he is on the field.

And if Trevathan doesn't quite qualify as a stud WLB this season, at least he can be a reliable WLB that can be consistent. It's a shame he sprained his ankle in last weeks game, but he will be back soon enough and given some time to get up to speed with the pro game, its a safe bet he is gonna be a keeper.

My bad, I must have missed their excellent production in these first couple of games. Also, I don't have the excellent insight into the teams practices that you must have.

SoCalBronco
08-19-2012, 07:09 PM
see the post above this..

you just might want to trust the guys that have been hired to do the job, that or apply to Pat Bowlen..

You might want to think they are not planning on running all that much..That was the first thing that went through my mind..

PLus for the most part RB's ar e a dime a dozen, more than one will be cut between now and mid sept..


They liked what they saw with Hillman and if you think he was drafted to carry the rock 20 times a game after it was handed off to him then you're not thinking with anything but your johnson..

Problem with your argument is you could say that about any FO. The whole trust the team thing doesn't work on this board. Arguments are arguments. If u want people to trust the club then they need to establish some political capital first. That Bowlen hired them isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.... considering he is a worthless piece of trash.

lonestar
08-19-2012, 07:10 PM
Very late, sure. As opposed to adding one with real day one starter potential earlier in the draft when we were instead making luxury picks.

Most teams do not waste top picks on WLB.. MLB maybe or a super stud like Von.. LB's are like RB's a dime a dozen.. mnay will become available over the couple of weeks IF John and JAck think we need one they will go get one..

DBroncos4life
08-19-2012, 07:12 PM
I don't know the history of this team like you guys.. But I can recognize talent and holes. I made a FA post calling for Jake Scott G, Hawthorne LB, a veteran safety and took serious **** on here..

Here we are a few months later this team picked up Leonard for safety which I thought was solid. Still need that guard and LB.. But everyone said we were good Bmore Manning, you don't know what your talking about..

Scott's around.. And to play LB... At this point Ernie Simms WLB? Or Gary Brackett MLB? Not too too keen on these LB options.

We picked up a safety prior then it just happened that Leonhard was cut. No one is jumping at Scott. That should tell you something is wrong right there. LB became worse as DJ kept acting up. No way to predict that.

eddie mac
08-19-2012, 07:12 PM
Come on and own up, who was smashing that panic button last week when we trounced the Bears in their own backyard??? Now all of a sudden we lose a pre-season game and a couple of starters make a few mistakes and we're a disaster in the making again.

We had a bad game that doesn't count for **** in the overall picture, time to get back out there, work on the issues and get ready for a game that counts against the Steelers. Sure we gave up some yards but did the first team D concede a touchdown after 2 games, answer = no.

lonestar
08-19-2012, 07:12 PM
Problem with your argument is you could say that about any FO. The whole trust the team thing doesn't work on this board. Arguments are arguments. If u want people to trust the club then they need to establish some political capital first. That Bowlen hired them isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.... considering he is a worthless piece of trash.

WELL Pat did hire John to turn it around.. Granted the Last two GM's he hired screwed the pooch..

but hey he is the owner untill some of these morons want to buy the team then piss and moan all they want but it will not change anything..

lonestar
08-19-2012, 07:14 PM
Come on and own up, who was smashing that panic button last week when we trounced the Bears in their own backyard??? Now all of a sudden we lose a pre-season game and a couple of starters make a few mistakes and we're a disaster in the making again.

We had a bad game that doesn't count for **** in the overall picture, time to get back out there, work on the issues and get ready for a game that counts against the Steelers. Sure we gave up some yards but did the first team D concede a touchdown after 2 games, answer = no.

Oh wait until about the third loss in SEPT this place will implode..

eddie mac
08-19-2012, 07:17 PM
Oh wait until about the third loss in SEPT this place will implode..

If we actually do lose 3 in September I'll be imploding with them but I think we'll be fine and more than competitive on both sides of the ball.

Broncoman13
08-19-2012, 07:19 PM
Problem with your argument is you could say that about any FO. The whole trust the team thing doesn't work on this board. Arguments are arguments. If u want people to trust the club then they need to establish some political capital first. That Bowlen hired them isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.... considering he is a worthless piece of trash.

Bowlen hired McD too right? I am confident in Bowlem, lol.

How much time did Knowshon miss in college? Anyone? The fact that guys were healthy in college doesn't mean they will in fact be healthy in the pros. Certainly helps their chances, but no guaranty!

Need a RB2 and a WLB. I'd roll the dice on Simms at this point. Also wouldn't mind making a deal with Seattle or Carolina for a RB. We are tied with SD in having the weakest RB corps in the AFC West. KC was smart to get Hillis. Wish we would have been proactive and signed Tolbert or Bush!

Btw, anybody see the Cutler to BMarsh connection and hate McD and Bowlen that much more?

lonestar
08-19-2012, 07:24 PM
Bowlen hired McD too right? I am confident in Bowlem, lol.

How much time did Knowshon miss in college? Anyone? The fact that guys were healthy in college doesn't mean they will in fact be healthy in the pros. Certainly helps their chances, but no guaranty!

Need a RB2 and a WLB. I'd roll the dice on Simms at this point. Also wouldn't mind making a deal with Seattle or Carolina for a RB. We are tied with SD in having the weakest RB corps in the AFC West. KC was smart to get Hillis. Wish we would have been proactive and signed Tolbert or Bush!

Btw, anybody see the Cutler to BMarsh connection and hate McD and Bowlen that much more?


Actually I loved the guy for getting rid of those skells..

Was wondering why Tanahan did not do it..

WAIT he was going to trade BM because even he knew what kind of moron he was..

lonestar
08-19-2012, 07:26 PM
If we actually do lose 3 in September I'll be imploding with them but I think we'll be fine and more than competitive on both sides of the ball.

Why we are playing some quality teams STEELERS Falcons AND Texans not to mention OAK..

There is a great chance that 3 of those teams will indeed beat this very young team..

lonestar
08-19-2012, 07:28 PM
just got this for about the 5th time this afternoon..

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moments.
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eddie mac
08-19-2012, 07:30 PM
Why we are playing some quality teams STEELERS Falcons AND Texans not to mention OAK..

There is a great chance that 3 of those teams will indeed beat this very young team..

Far too much negative ****e for me on here, we are not going to lose 3 of those games, worst case scenario 2-2, I reckon we'll only lose one. We have ****ing Peyton Manning now so it's time to start believing and I dont mean on one knee praying to god that Tiny Tim can save us.

cmhargrove
08-19-2012, 09:35 PM
just got this for about the 5th time this afternoon..

Maybe it use sensed your negativity and wouldn't let you on the site?

lonestar
08-19-2012, 11:58 PM
Maybe it use sensed your negativity and wouldn't let you on the site?

Maybe they need to upgrade the servers.. just wait till it is regular season..

BTW I tried it with 3G 4G and DSL get the same reponses..

lonestar
08-20-2012, 12:05 AM
Far too much negative ****e for me on here, we are not going to lose 3 of those games, worst case scenario 2-2, I reckon we'll only lose one. We have ****ing Peyton Manning now so it's time to start believing and I dont mean on one knee praying to god that Tiny Tim can save us.

Just being realistic.. while some do not beleive the thought that based on last years finishes you get it in this case the hardest schedule in the NFL. I do..
Because unless those teams we play either look past us (not happening with Manning) or they have castitrofic injuries most of those play off teams if not all of them will be back this year..

If we actually had a great team with loads of exprience and depth I might buy that we can win all of those games..But odds are we are going to lose them..

Manning has not shown me that he can consistently score 35 points a game and that our D will hold teams to under that..

Maybe next year with additional Exprience from exsisting players, Manning turly has the O and skill players tuned in and we get another couple of starter quality players for staters ad BACKUP depth then I see us getting to the playoffs..

but this year to young, to inexprienced and not enough Manning time with the O to fine tune it..

Drek
08-20-2012, 07:01 AM
Or just say we didn't draft who I wanted so I'm not happy about it. Don't tell me about David being the better 2nd round pick either over Oz because that would have been my choice as well. We did address the WOLB via the draft and you claimed we didn't.

A late round pick isn't "addressing the position". Its adding camp competition and ST depth.

If this FO had recognized WOLB as a weakness and then had the draft they had then they failed to meet all their needs.

Most teams do not waste top picks on WLB.. MLB maybe or a super stud like Von.. LB's are like RB's a dime a dozen.. mnay will become available over the couple of weeks IF John and JAck think we need one they will go get one..
The second round has been a goldmine for LBs (and RBs) for a long time now. The late first to late 2nd is where many of your best LBs in the game today were drafted.

I'll also wait until GM John and HC Jack actually win us something before I assume they're always right.

Drek
08-20-2012, 07:08 AM
Come on and own up, who was smashing that panic button last week when we trounced the Bears in their own backyard??? Now all of a sudden we lose a pre-season game and a couple of starters make a few mistakes and we're a disaster in the making again.

We had a bad game that doesn't count for **** in the overall picture, time to get back out there, work on the issues and get ready for a game that counts against the Steelers. Sure we gave up some yards but did the first team D concede a touchdown after 2 games, answer = no.

I'd agree. This is a 10+ win team if Woodyard starts 16 games and plays just like he did last year. If he takes a step forward or someone better takes the job from him this team only goes up from there.

For a young team working around a very rusty QB this team is already well on it's way. Manning has been feeling out what he can and can't still do with the football. Turns out he can do pretty much everything he used to, from placing a deep bomb to threading the needle between defenders. When the games start to count for real he's going to stop experimenting and start working. Then we'll see how this offense really scores points.

DBroncos4life
08-20-2012, 11:34 AM
A late round pick isn't "addressing the position". Its adding camp competition and ST depth.

If this FO had recognized WOLB as a weakness and then had the draft they had then they failed to meet all their needs.


The second round has been a goldmine for LBs (and RBs) for a long time now. The late first to late 2nd is where many of your best LBs in the game today were drafted.

I'll also wait until GM John and HC Jack actually win us something before I assume they're always right.

You are so right Drek. No team has ever got a starting LB outside the first three rounds of a NFL draft.

Drek
08-20-2012, 12:27 PM
You are so right Drek. No team has ever got a starting LB outside the first three rounds of a NFL draft.

Way to completely miss the point.

Fact is, the need for a starter at WOLB was readily apparent heading into the draft, with DJ's suspension already known about. Its also a fact that one of the better WOLB prospects in the draft fell to our 2nd round pick, where we passed on him.

So if DJ being out and us having to start Woodyard or Trevathan doesn't go well we know exactly what could have been done instead to make the 2012 Broncos better.

Tombstone RJ
08-20-2012, 12:32 PM
Way to completely miss the point.

Fact is, the need for a starter at WOLB was readily apparent heading into the draft, with DJ's suspension already known about. Its also a fact that one of the better WOLB prospects in the draft fell to our 2nd round pick, where we passed on him.

So if DJ being out and us having to start Woodyard or Trevathan doesn't go well we know exactly what could have been done instead to make the 2012 Broncos better.

well the Broncos did sign Brooking too, so we got that going for us...

Broncoman13
08-20-2012, 12:40 PM
well the Broncos did sign Brooking too, so we got that going for us...

Obviously not the player he once was, but I think he can help. Not sure about him playing the Weak Side, but I'm sure he would be an upgrade over Woodyard. He at least has great instincts, but will need to come off the field on 3rd downs, IMO.

Drek
08-20-2012, 12:50 PM
Obviously not the player he once was, but I think he can help. Not sure about him playing the Weak Side, but I'm sure he would be an upgrade over Woodyard. He at least has great instincts, but will need to come off the field on 3rd downs, IMO.

Brooking can't move, at all.

His only use on this team would be as a gap stuffing MLB on obvious running downs and goal line situations. If we ask him to drop in coverage he'll get abused worse than Woodyard or Mays on their worst days.

DBroncos4life
08-20-2012, 01:18 PM
Way to completely miss the point.

Fact is, the need for a starter at WOLB was readily apparent heading into the draft, with DJ's suspension already known about. Its also a fact that one of the better WOLB prospects in the draft fell to our 2nd round pick, where we passed on him.

So if DJ being out and us having to start Woodyard or Trevathan doesn't go well we know exactly what could have been done instead to make the 2012 Broncos better.

Denver wanted a top QB talent to develop behind Manning. WOLB can wait.

lonestar
08-20-2012, 01:42 PM
So glad to see the arm chair QBs and GMs always whining a out why John whiffed on their pet player. While taking what looks to be a one hell of a player in Wolfe and potentially our QBOTF.

OMG how could we do that instead of picking up a LB.

JDR has made this more of a DL defense than the LB units we have seen for decades.
That is not to say he does not covet extraordinary LBs. it means you have to make do with what you have until the next time.

Which might be in two weeks on cut down day. OMG does anyone think they can't wait or that having a real DL Infront of these same LB from last year will not make them better.

Drek
08-20-2012, 01:54 PM
Denver wanted a top QB talent to develop behind Manning. WOLB can wait.

1. "top" QB talent is never available in the late 2nd. We got a project with some upside, don't oversell it.

2. it shouldn't have, if we're truly looking at winning as quickly as possible.

So glad to see the arm chair QBs and GMs always whining a out why John whiffed on their pet player. While taking what looks to be a one hell of a player in Wolfe and potentially our QBOTF.

OMG how could we do that instead of picking up a LB.

JDR has made this more of a DL defense than the LB units we have seen for decades.
That is not to say he does not covet extraordinary LBs. it means you have to make do with what you have until the next time.

Which might be in two weeks on cut down day. OMG does anyone think they can't wait or that having a real DL Infront of these same LB from last year will not make them better.
David isn't exactly a favorite of mine, I just understand how much more he could contribute during the Peyton era than Osweiler, and how giving Osweiler 2-3 years of bench time only hurts our window of evaluation before he's a FA.

Personally I would have liked Rueben Randle, moving Decker into the slot and playing a lot of 11 personnel, but that's just my preference.

And I agree that our improved DL and simply JDR's improved coaching will bring our LBs up to a higher level than we saw last season. But Woodyard has had multiple opportunities to prove himself as something other than a backup and he's failed to do so. Trevathan is a very similar player to Woodyard and brings similar concerns. So passing up a QBOTF when we've got a QB of the now ready to win big games doesn't seem like a big deal to me versus getting a difference maker at WOLB who can be developed by JDR and give us a killer 1/2 punch at OLB for the next 10 years.

Maybe it'll all work out, but as I've said before that's going to require 1. someone else stepping up at WOLB and 2. Osweiler proving his worth almost immediately upon being given the starting job, taking the difficulty out of the decision to stick with him for a second contract.

DBroncos4life
08-20-2012, 03:16 PM
So you complain that Denver didn't address the WOLB during the draft and you wouldn't have yourself?

Rabb
08-20-2012, 03:24 PM
I'll also wait until GM John and HC Jack actually win us something before I assume they're always right.

Works both ways though friend, what have they done to hurt us?

pricejj
08-20-2012, 03:28 PM
1. "top" QB talent is never available in the late 2nd. We got a project with some upside, don't oversell it.

Truth. Osweiler looks like a serviceable backup at best. Lacking smarts and killer instinct...

2. it shouldn't have, if we're truly looking at winning as quickly as possible. David isn't exactly a favorite of mine, I just understand how much more he could contribute during the Peyton era than Osweiler, and how giving Osweiler 2-3 years of bench time only hurts our window of evaluation before he's a FA.

Personally I would have liked Rueben Randle, moving Decker into the slot and playing a lot of 11 personnel, but that's just my preference.

Truth. Decker in the slot would be ideal.

And I agree that our improved DL and simply JDR's improved coaching will bring our LBs up to a higher level than we saw last season. But Woodyard has had multiple opportunities to prove himself as something other than a backup and he's failed to do so. Trevathan is a very similar player to Woodyard and brings similar concerns. So passing up a QBOTF when we've got a QB of the now ready to win big games doesn't seem like a big deal to me versus getting a difference maker at WOLB who can be developed by JDR and give us a killer 1/2 punch at OLB for the next 10 years.

Truth. David would have been nice...guess we'll have to wait on D.J.'s return. Don't forget the liability at MLB.

Maybe it'll all work out, but as I've said before that's going to require 1. someone else stepping up at WOLB and 2. Osweiler proving his worth almost immediately upon being given the starting job, taking the difficulty out of the decision to stick with him for a second contract.

If we weren't playing to back-up LB's, I would like our SB chances a lot better...

DBroncos4life
08-20-2012, 03:53 PM
Truth. Osweiler looks like a serviceable backup at best. Lacking smarts and killer instinct...

Truth. You compared him to Matt Leinart so you have no ****ing clue.

pricejj
08-20-2012, 04:00 PM
Truth. You compared him to Matt Leinart so you have no ****ing clue.

Both of them appear to be on similar career projections to me. The light may turn on for Brock eventually, but what are the chances of that happening? Close to nil. Sitting on the bench for 3-5 years ain't gonna help.

Russell Wilson >>>>>>>>>>>> Brosweiler

DBroncos4life
08-20-2012, 04:02 PM
Both of them appear to be on similar career projections to me. The light may turn on for Brock eventually, but what are the chances of that happening? Close to nil. Sitting on the bench for 3-5 years ain't gonna help.

Russell Wilson >>>>>>>>>>>> Brosweiler

After two preseason games? Are you ****ing for real? Hilarious!

pricejj
08-20-2012, 04:03 PM
I'll give you this...if Osweiler starts spinning it like Mallett did last preseason, he's got a chance. But 1 first down in an entire half of football, does not portend well for the future....

DBroncos4life
08-20-2012, 04:05 PM
I'll give you this...if Osweiler starts spinning it like Mallett did last preseason, he's got a chance. But 1 first down in an entire half of football, does not portend well for the future....

Oh dear ****ing god.

pricejj
08-20-2012, 04:06 PM
After two preseason games? Are you ****ing for real? Hilarious!

It's simple...ball, or don't ball. Good QB's flash no matter how crappy their teammates are. Brock can at least throw the rock, but I haven't seen any real flashes yet that say "Man, this dude is good". So far, he looks like a backup to me.

DBroncos4life
08-20-2012, 04:10 PM
It's simple...ball, or don't ball. Good QB's flash no matter how crappy their teammates are. Brock can at least throw the rock, but I haven't seen any real flashes yet that say "Man, this dude is good". So far, he looks like a backup to me.

Well you are the expert I mean no one logs as much youtube film time on the site as you. Cut him and move on.

pricejj
08-20-2012, 04:16 PM
Well you are the expert I mean no one logs as much youtube film time on the site as you. Cut him and move on.

Every team needs a serviceable backup QB. Coming into the offseason we didn't have one. Tebow was way too much of a distraction to keep around, Hanie sucks, Webber is ?...

Brosweiler looks a lot like all the other backups I've seen...no killer instinct.

Kubiak was valuable, so was Bubby Brister. Brosweiler will do for now, but when Manning walks out the door, we're toast just like everybody else.

ZONA
08-20-2012, 05:41 PM
I'm guessing you have more experience judging talent than JDR has..

You seem to forget that other teams wanted Mays, and other than sacks WW stats last year were better than Djs were..

Other than tha fact MAys was given a reasonably fat contract at the behest of John, John and Jack.. Just maybe they know something you do not..

I just love it whan armchair GM's and HC's second guess the pros ..

Armchair? We're just calling it how we see it.............from the games. Yeah sure, practice is one thing, but games are the ultimate stage for showcasing and proving what you have. Mays DOES NOT HAVE IT. I doubt the Broncos could even trade him right now for a 5th round pick next year. If Elway and company see something in Mays that we aren't seeing in the games, I'd sure like to know what it is.....or do I?

lonestar
08-20-2012, 05:44 PM
1. "top" QB talent is never available in the late 2nd. We got a project with some upside, don't oversell it.

2. it shouldn't have, if we're truly looking at winning as quickly as possible.


David isn't exactly a favorite of mine, I just understand how much more he could contribute during the Peyton era than Osweiler, and how giving Osweiler 2-3 years of bench time only hurts our window of evaluation before he's a FA.

Personally I would have liked Rueben Randle, moving Decker into the slot and playing a lot of 11 personnel, but that's just my preference.

And I agree that our improved DL and simply JDR's improved coaching will bring our LBs up to a higher level than we saw last season. But Woodyard has had multiple opportunities to prove himself as something other than a backup and he's failed to do so. Trevathan is a very similar player to Woodyard and brings similar concerns. So passing up a QBOTF when we've got a QB of the now ready to win big games doesn't seem like a big deal to me versus getting a difference maker at WOLB who can be developed by JDR and give us a killer 1/2 punch at OLB for the next 10 years.

Maybe it'll all work out, but as I've said before that's going to require 1. someone else stepping up at WOLB and 2. Osweiler proving his worth almost immediately upon being given the starting job, taking the difficulty out of the decision to stick with him for a second contract.

We may need that QBOTF tomorrow not 3 years from now..

AS for WW given ops to take the job..

If your paying numbnuts 5 mil a year and WW 3ook and they play at the same level who are you going to play.. Until such a time as it is new contract time or we indeed find a much cheaper replacement for
NUMBNUTS

as for BO if Mannig is still here in 4 years then we may have a problem but then he would be stupid to go elsewhere when he can get the education he is getting here.. all the while knowing that he will be playing sooner rather than later..

Most players unless they are nut balls, See cutlet, bm and TS will stay with an up and coming team..

lonestar
08-20-2012, 05:46 PM
Armchair? We're just calling it how we see it.............from the games. Yeah sure, practice is one thing, but games are the ultimate stage for showcasing and proving what you have. Mays DOES NOT HAVE IT. I doubt the Broncos could even trade him right now for a 5th round pick next year. If Elway and company see something in Mays that we aren't seeing in the games, I'd sure like to know what it is.....or do I?

YEs armchair..

They are watching the practices and then game film.. are you?

CEH
08-20-2012, 06:04 PM
We may need that QBOTF tomorrow not 3 years from now..

AS for WW given ops to take the job..

If your paying numbnuts 5 mil a year and WW 3ook and they play at the same level who are you going to play.. Until such a time as it is new contract time or we indeed find a much cheaper replacement for
NUMBNUTS

as for BO if Mannig is still here in 4 years then we may have a problem but then he would be stupid to go elsewhere when he can get the education he is getting here.. all the while knowing that he will be playing sooner rather than later..

Most players unless they are nut balls, See cutlet, bm and TS will stay with an up and coming team..

Even Harvey can't save NUMBNUTS. What was he undefeated in cases involving the Broncos. I'm sure Elway had to take that into account when building the draft board.

Elway will screw up just like Polian and be fired after this season all because Plan A was derailed by a WSLber at #57. Atleast according to this board

lonestar
08-20-2012, 06:26 PM
Even Harvey can't save NUMBNUTS. What was he undefeated in cases involving the Broncos. I'm sure Elway had to take that into account when building the draft board.

Elway will screw up just like Polian and be fired after this season all because Plan A was derailed by a WSLber at #57. Atleast according to this board

WHAT GETS ME IS 80% OF THEM HAVE BEEN (sorry about that) praying for him to take over..

Now they have him and they piss and moan because he did not choose their cheery picked FAV coming out of college.. Or did not pick up has beens that have been cast away by the teams they were on..

If I see another thread started by some numbnut for every player taht has been cut..

Maybe the mods will lump them all into one thread.. to keep the 200 threads from being started.. for everyone taht gets cut over the next few weeks..

Than GGod I'm going to Europe for a few weeks and do not have to see them all..

oubronco
08-20-2012, 06:49 PM
Is there any decent free agent LB's left?

lonestar
08-20-2012, 07:30 PM
Is there any decent free agent LB's left?

Gonna be about 1100+ cuts in the next few weeks..

gotta to believe some will fall..

CEH
08-20-2012, 07:57 PM
Id cut all but Willis and hillman and pick up a Seattle rb and someone else

NFLBRONCO
08-20-2012, 09:33 PM
Id cut all but Willis and hillman and pick up a Seattle rb and someone else

I agree 100%


Seems like FO and media love Ball. No idea why

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 12:08 AM
I agree 100%


Seems like FO and media love Ball. No idea why

4.2 YPC, Great blocker, good pass receiver, makes few mistakes and averaged almost 10 YPR. I imagine this is why the front office likes him. He is a good solid vet.

Dexter
08-21-2012, 01:43 AM
It's simple...ball, or don't ball. Good QB's flash no matter how crappy their teammates are. Brock can at least throw the rock, but I haven't seen any real flashes yet that say "Man, this dude is good". So far, he looks like a backup to me.

I'm usually on your side in debates, but not so much on this one..

Outside of Luck and RG3, Wilson was my favorite QB in the draft. But Osweiler does have talent, and he was drafted as a project. Didn't he really only play like one or two years of college ball?

On top of that, he has hit some really nice passes in preseason. And although he may have "struggled" a bit last game, he did make some nice throws which could have easily extended drives. There was one to Julius Thomas that hit him right in the hands that could have been caught, and one that Caldwell dropped after getting nailed.

Its not like he really had a lot of help from his o-line or run game. This theory that a QB has to tear it up in his rookie preseason games in order to be a future starter is flawed. He's playing arguably the most difficult position on the field mentally. And especially like I said, he was drafted as a "project" anyway. Cut the guy some slack, and give him some time to develop.

I'm sure I don't need to lecture you on how bad Elway was when he came into the league. Or even the fact that Peyton threw 28 interceptions in his rookie season.

CEH
08-21-2012, 06:18 AM
Every team needs a serviceable backup QB. Coming into the offseason we didn't have one. Tebow was way too much of a distraction to keep around, Hanie sucks, Webber is ?...

Brosweiler looks a lot like all the other backups I've seen...no killer instinct.

Kubiak was valuable, so was Bubby Brister. Brosweiler will do for now, but when Manning walks out the door, we're toast just like everybody else.

Everything you are saying is a SWAG . Judging QB talent is the hardest thing to do in the NFL. I think Brock gets more than a half of the 2nd preseason game before we can conclude he's has no killer instinct and we need to start drafting a QBOTF

Brock is not reading defenses yet. If you think he should be reading defenses at this stage then not sure what to say. That TD pass in CHI was an NFL pass with accuracy and velocity. That was a flash. He's like Elway in the repect he still doesn't really have touch passes down

Mallet looked pedestrian last night and had a INT taken away on a cheesy call

pricejj
08-21-2012, 08:33 AM
I'll shut up about Brock. I get my DVR this week, so I can rewatch games. You guys are right, Osweiler didn't play that bad...I didn't really see him making any major mistakes. Just disappointed with the teams effort as a whole (other than 1st string Offense). Even Mays knows he was utter crap...can't believe we gave up 228 yards rushing to the lowly Seahawks.

And yeah, Mallett was 10 for 20...glad the Patriots plan of showcasing Mallett to try to get a 1st round draft pick backfired on them. I am also glad their Offensive line is shoddy at best, and I look forward to kicking the living crap out of them in the regular season. So far Chandler Jones is invisible, and Hightower is good, but not great. I hates Patriots.

missingnumber7
08-21-2012, 08:38 AM
I'll shut up about Brock. I get my DVR this week, so I can rewatch games. You guys are right, Osweiler didn't play that bad...I didn't really see him making any major mistakes. Just disappointed with the teams effort as a whole (other than 1st string Offense). Even Mays knows he was utter crap...can't believe we gave up 228 yards rushing to the lowly Seahawks.

Watch the game again...our 1st string D was put in some pretty crappy spots and held tight giving up only field goals. The 1st string O needs some work. We aren't getting the running space they need, batted balls for INT's in both games so far. I know that we are missing Kuper but cummon. When Elway said there is no plan B, he was refering to more than just Manning, our depth needs work period.

Tombstone RJ
08-21-2012, 08:51 AM
I'll shut up about Brock. I get my DVR this week, so I can rewatch games. You guys are right, Osweiler didn't play that bad...I didn't really see him making any major mistakes. Just disappointed with the teams effort as a whole (other than 1st string Offense). Even Mays knows he was utter crap...can't believe we gave up 228 yards rushing to the lowly Seahawks.

And yeah, Mallett was 10 for 20...glad the Patriots plan of showcasing Mallett to try to get a 1st round draft pick backfired on them. I am also glad their Offensive line is shoddy at best, and I look forward to kicking the living crap out of them in the regular season. So far Chandler Jones is invisible, and Hightower is good, but not great. I hates Patriots.

Yep, Bellichick thinks some team will freak out, panic, and trade a #1 to NE for Mallet. The Pats already have a good back up QB, they don't need two good back up QBs.

Mallet can be a good QB, but he's not worth a first round pick, not right now anyway. I see some similarities between Mallett and Osweiler, but Osweiler is more mobile, he's a better raw athlete. That being said, they both are big, strong armed QBs. Mallett just has more college experience and he ran a pro style offense at Arkansas.

NFLBRONCO
08-21-2012, 09:36 AM
4.2 YPC, Great blocker, good pass receiver, makes few mistakes and averaged almost 10 YPR. I imagine this is why the front office likes him. He is a good solid vet.

If this is true why don't fans like him?

2KBack
08-21-2012, 09:58 AM
4.2 YPC, Great blocker, good pass receiver, makes few mistakes and averaged almost 10 YPR. I imagine this is why the front office likes him. He is a good solid vet.

So that sort of production gets him the solid vet treatment...but similar (or much better) production gets Moreno the Trash label

Drek
08-21-2012, 10:05 AM
We may need that QBOTF tomorrow not 3 years from now..

AS for WW given ops to take the job..

If your paying numbnuts 5 mil a year and WW 3ook and they play at the same level who are you going to play.. Until such a time as it is new contract time or we indeed find a much cheaper replacement for
NUMBNUTS

as for BO if Mannig is still here in 4 years then we may have a problem but then he would be stupid to go elsewhere when he can get the education he is getting here.. all the while knowing that he will be playing sooner rather than later..

Most players unless they are nut balls, See cutlet, bm and TS will stay with an up and coming team..
1. drafting someone like David was the perfect pathway to just outright cutting DJ and saving that $5M for a better player THIS off-season. When David fell to us it should have been seen as the perfect opportunity to excise DJ from the roster.

2. If Manning gets done in three years that gives Osweiler only one year to prove if he's worth an extension or not. Unless he outright sucks or is immediately great the Broncos will have a hard time deciding on giving him a second contract. No matter what the majority of his first contract is likely not going to pay off very well for a guy drafted as early as he was.

I have no problems with Osweiler as a long term proposition, I just don't like that we chose him over players with greater value short term and comparable value long term. Like David, who also fits an immediate need on the team.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 10:48 AM
So that sort of production gets him the solid vet treatment...but similar (or much better) production gets Moreno the Trash label

Moreno is injured all the time. That is part of Ball's strength he is very reliable. If Moreno showed he could stay injury free and pick up the tough yards than he would be the #2 back, but he has not showed that.

lonestar
08-21-2012, 10:49 AM
If this is true why don't fans like him?

Fans are petty loads of members here have their pet players and because of that theirs heads will not allow themselves to admit just maybe Mays, Ball might be better than they want them to be.

Morons

I learned long ago that most and qualify that with some coaches and GMa do not have a clue which has been proven with stats.

Most of them know what they are doing and in our case JOhn John and Jack are all experienced guys that have played so have a clue and so far IMO most of their decisions I totally agree with considering the circumstances.

Many folks wanted their pet player drafted but we did not get them. So they are going have a hardon and piss and moan about how great their pick would have been instead of who we got.

You just have to figure out who has an agenda.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 10:50 AM
1. drafting someone like David was the perfect pathway to just outright cutting DJ and saving that $5M for a better player THIS off-season. When David fell to us it should have been seen as the perfect opportunity to excise DJ from the roster.

2. If Manning gets done in three years that gives Osweiler only one year to prove if he's worth an extension or not. Unless he outright sucks or is immediately great the Broncos will have a hard time deciding on giving him a second contract. No matter what the majority of his first contract is likely not going to pay off very well for a guy drafted as early as he was.

I have no problems with Osweiler as a long term proposition, I just don't like that we chose him over players with greater value short term and comparable value long term. Like David, who also fits an immediate need on the team.

I understand what you are saying. I think this was an Elway pick. He wanted to put a stamp on his franchise QB of the future. You could call it an ego pick. We'll know in 3-4 years if it was a good selection

NFLBRONCO
08-21-2012, 10:54 AM
1. drafting someone like David was the perfect pathway to just outright cutting DJ and saving that $5M for a better player THIS off-season. When David fell to us it should have been seen as the perfect opportunity to excise DJ from the roster.

2. If Manning gets done in three years that gives Osweiler only one year to prove if he's worth an extension or not. Unless he outright sucks or is immediately great the Broncos will have a hard time deciding on giving him a second contract. No matter what the majority of his first contract is likely not going to pay off very well for a guy drafted as early as he was.

I have no problems with Osweiler as a long term proposition, I just don't like that we chose him over players with greater value short term and comparable value long term. Like David, who also fits an immediate need on the team.

I wanted Randle at 57 most of all for these reasons:

1. I don't trust DMT or Decker to stay healthy. Nothing that special behind them.

2. We have a 3 yr window with Manning for SB run get as many weapons as possible learning the system as soon as possible. If we are forced to add a weapon next yr that is less time to develop them with now a 2 yr window.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 10:55 AM
If this is true why don't fans like him?

Same reason they dislike Mays. They cannot except the player for what he is. They are both solid vets. Spectacular, no? but not sorry either. Teams are built on their solid players and if Mays is your worst starting player and Ball is your worst back-up than fella you have a pretty damn good team.

Ball is better than Moreno and Mays is better than Woodyard. Why people are not focusing on them I do not know.

lonestar
08-21-2012, 11:00 AM
1. drafting someone like David was the perfect pathway to just outright cutting DJ and saving that $5M for a better player THIS off-season. When David fell to us it should have been seen as the perfect opportunity to excise DJ from the roster.

2. If Manning gets done in three years that gives Osweiler only one year to prove if he's worth an extension or not. Unless he outright sucks or is immediately great the Broncos will have a hard time deciding on giving him a second contract. No matter what the majority of his first contract is likely not going to pay off very well for a guy drafted as early as he was.

I have no problems with Osweiler as a long term proposition, I just don't like that we chose him over players with greater value short term and comparable value long term. Like David, who also fits an immediate need on the team.

It matters not.

As much as I'd love them to have picked up a WLB and dump numbnuts. It did not happen.

So I'm over whinning about who did not get drafted. Time to move on.

If BO does indeed only get one year BFD. The owners built in STOL gaps for protecting/keeping players.

Do you think that the FO will not be watching him the next 3 years?

He will be getting clean up time and be running the team in practice.
Plus all the time on the sidelines, learning from a master and then there is the film room.

To think the powers that be will not have a clue is silly.

2KBack
08-21-2012, 12:15 PM
Moreno is injured all the time. That is part of Ball's strength he is very reliable. If Moreno showed he could stay injury free and pick up the tough yards than he would be the #2 back, but he has not showed that.

That is just silly....Moreno gets just as many "tough yards" as Ball and is more dynamic all around. Moreno has had one significant injury that caused him to miss significant time....an ACL. Before that he had around 450 touches in 2.5 years. You know, times where you might get hit sometimes. Ball has 170 total touches in his 4 year career.

Drek
08-21-2012, 01:10 PM
I wanted Randle at 57 most of all for these reasons:

1. I don't trust DMT or Decker to stay healthy. Nothing that special behind them.

2. We have a 3 yr window with Manning for SB run get as many weapons as possible learning the system as soon as possible. If we are forced to add a weapon next yr that is less time to develop them with now a 2 yr window.

Randle was my preferred choice as well, but David would have been a solid alternative.

It matters not.

As much as I'd love them to have picked up a WLB and dump numbnuts. It did not happen.

So I'm over whinning about who did not get drafted. Time to move on.

If BO does indeed only get one year BFD. The owners built in STOL gaps for protecting/keeping players.

Do you think that the FO will not be watching him the next 3 years?

He will be getting clean up time and be running the team in practice.
Plus all the time on the sidelines, learning from a master and then there is the film room.

To think the powers that be will not have a clue is silly.
The Chargers didn't see a problem in letting Brees walk and then he blew up in New Orleans.

Conversely, the Jags had Garrard around for several years with a handful of consecutive starts to evaluate him. They still wiffed mightily when they gave him a 6 year, $60M extension.

Teams miss on both ends of the spectrum when you don't get to see a guy play for a large enough sample. Aaron Rodgers is the only current example of a guy who rode the pine for more than one season and is currently playing at a high level for the team who drafted him. Pretty small sample.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 01:59 PM
That is just silly....Moreno gets just as many "tough yards" as Ball and is more dynamic all around. Moreno has had one significant injury that caused him to miss significant time....an ACL. Before that he had around 450 touches in 2.5 years. You know, times where you might get hit sometimes. Ball has 170 total touches in his 4 year career.

Moreno has been injured one significant time he has missed games here and there due to injury and he does not get the tough yards you might as well put ballarina slippers on the dude.

The reason Ball does not have the number of carries is because he is a backup RB. Moreno had a lot of carries because that is the year he was starting and he averaged 3.8 YPC that year. We are talking about who would be the best #2 RB on the Broncos and I say I would rather have Ball over Moreno. Neither of them are starting material.

There is also the point that Moreno's contract calls for him to make over $5 million next year and that ain't happening.

Dexter
08-21-2012, 02:36 PM
I'll shut up about Brock. I get my DVR this week, so I can rewatch games. You guys are right, Osweiler didn't play that bad...I didn't really see him making any major mistakes. Just disappointed with the teams effort as a whole (other than 1st string Offense). Even Mays knows he was utter crap...can't believe we gave up 228 yards rushing to the lowly Seahawks.

And yeah, Mallett was 10 for 20...glad the Patriots plan of showcasing Mallett to try to get a 1st round draft pick backfired on them. I am also glad their Offensive line is shoddy at best, and I look forward to kicking the living crap out of them in the regular season. So far Chandler Jones is invisible, and Hightower is good, but not great. I hates Patriots.

It's all good man. You may be right on Osweiler in the end, we don't know. I'm just willing to give him awhile before I get too down on him is all.

^5 on the Patriot hate btw :)

pricejj
08-21-2012, 03:53 PM
It's all good man. You may be right on Osweiler in the end, we don't know. I'm just willing to give him awhile before I get too down on him is all.

^5 on the Patriot hate btw :)

Eh, I'll give him a couple more games. I did like some things about him.

1. Oz isn't afraid to get hit.
2. He stands in the pocket well and delivers the ball.
3. His throwing motion looks better.
4. He looked really good against the Bears.

Like Manning said, you evaluate the entire preseason. I will withold any further Oz evaluation until after game 4. :sunshine:

cutthemdown
08-21-2012, 03:57 PM
I understand what you are saying. I think this was an Elway pick. He wanted to put a stamp on his franchise QB of the future. You could call it an ego pick. We'll know in 3-4 years if it was a good selection

I think Elway realizes it could take a few swings at qb's before you get a really good one. If Brock doesn't come along he will probably take another swing. Its the most important position.

Being a realist its pretty easy to see we don't stack up to the elite teams yet. We still aren't that great upfront on the oline. Our dline is better but probably not going to scare anyone just yet. Our RBS lack speed and our number 1 is old. Our WR still just really coming on. We don't know how good they are yet.

No reason to believe Elway passing on a rookie linebacker for a QB is really going to significantly alter the Broncos year.

NFLBRONCO
08-21-2012, 03:59 PM
Randle was my preferred choice as well, but David would have been a solid alternative.


The Chargers didn't see a problem in letting Brees walk and then he blew up in New Orleans.

Conversely, the Jags had Garrard around for several years with a handful of consecutive starts to evaluate him. They still wiffed mightily when they gave him a 6 year, $60M extension.

Teams miss on both ends of the spectrum when you don't get to see a guy play for a large enough sample. Aaron Rodgers is the only current example of a guy who rode the pine for more than one season and is currently playing at a high level for the team who drafted him. Pretty small sample.

Agree on David :)

cutthemdown
08-21-2012, 03:59 PM
Moreno has been injured one significant time he has missed games here and there due to injury and he does not get the tough yards you might as well put ballarina slippers on the dude.

The reason Ball does not have the number of carries is because he is a backup RB. Moreno had a lot of carries because that is the year he was starting and he averaged 3.8 YPC that year. We are talking about who would be the best #2 RB on the Broncos and I say I would rather have Ball over Moreno. Neither of them are starting material.

There is also the point that Moreno's contract calls for him to make over $5 million next year and that ain't happening.


Moreno a non factor at this point. His salary not too bad this yr so if Broncos feel he has a role i think he stays for sure. But your right no way he sniffs next yrs contract if like you say its 5 mil a yr.

Moreno next yr may get a 1 yr deal somewhere, then if he looks good make the team and maybe make 750 grand or something.

But if guys like Hillis and Bush had to sign cheap, Moreno gets nothing.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 05:02 PM
I think Elway realizes it could take a few swings at qb's before you get a really good one. If Brock doesn't come along he will probably take another swing. Its the most important position.

Being a realist its pretty easy to see we don't stack up to the elite teams yet. We still aren't that great upfront on the oline. Our dline is better but probably not going to scare anyone just yet. Our RBS lack speed and our number 1 is old. Our WR still just really coming on. We don't know how good they are yet.

No reason to believe Elway passing on a rookie linebacker for a QB is really going to significantly alter the Broncos year.

You are right Denver is not an elite team, but Denver has great players. Champ, Doom, Von and Manning could all win a playoff game for the Broncos. So they aren't elite but remember the Giants were 7-7 last year.

Denver is now in the mix of teams that can win a Super Bowl. They were not in this mix in January.

cutthemdown
08-21-2012, 05:40 PM
You are right Denver is not an elite team, but Denver has great players. Champ, Doom, Von and Manning could all win a playoff game for the Broncos. So they aren't elite but remember the Giants were 7-7 last year.

Denver is now in the mix of teams that can win a Super Bowl. They were in this mix in January.

Yeah maybe. If things fall right you might only need to be a playoff team to win it all. I just think Elway is in a seat now where he is thinking down the road. Since he knows QB is so important he felt might as well start early stocking the team with younger qbs.

I think Broncos feel Woodyard can play WLB in the NFL. They figure he is probably better backing up DJ then any rookie would be.

But Miller is a find, and Wolfe seems like he can contribute this yr. I'd say Elway doing a pretty good job. He took over a team in absolute shambles IMO.

He got a better in the secondary, and the dline. Miller helped the linebackers but we could still use another player there.

Really though IMO this yr is about seeing what Manning needs on offense. Decker and DT really still very unproven. They look pretty good but we don't know how good yet. Rookie RB hasn't seen field and the TE position really sort of a bandaid with Tamme and Dressen.

Thats not even considering our weak interior oline.

Broncos I think play better football this yr, but it won't be Superbowl good.

chawknz
08-21-2012, 05:48 PM
Whatever it takes for MJD.

Bacchus
08-21-2012, 06:03 PM
Yeah maybe. If things fall right you might only need to be a playoff team to win it all. I just think Elway is in a seat now where he is thinking down the road. Since he knows QB is so important he felt might as well start early stocking the team with younger qbs.

I think Broncos feel Woodyard can play WLB in the NFL. They figure he is probably better backing up DJ then any rookie would be.

But Miller is a find, and Wolfe seems like he can contribute this yr. I'd say Elway doing a pretty good job. He took over a team in absolute shambles IMO.

He got a better in the secondary, and the dline. Miller helped the linebackers but we could still use another player there.

Really though IMO this yr is about seeing what Manning needs on offense. Decker and DT really still very unproven. They look pretty good but we don't know how good yet. Rookie RB hasn't seen field and the TE position really sort of a bandaid with Tamme and Dressen.

Thats not even considering our weak interior oline.

Broncos I think play better football this yr, but it won't be Superbowl good.

Just think if Wolfe is a true find and gets 8 sacks this year from the interior. Doom on one side Von on the other all three of them racing to the QB. That is how the Giants did it. With Manning on offense you know Denver is going to score points which will force the other team to throw the ball and falling right into the hands of Doom Vonwolfe. This could happen. I think it is something all Broncos' fans can realistically look at right now and say yes, Denver can compete for a Super Bowl.

lonestar
08-22-2012, 10:31 AM
Randle was my preferred choice as well, but David would have been a solid alternative.


The Chargers didn't see a problem in letting Brees walk and then he blew up in New Orleans.

Conversely, the Jags had Garrard around for several years with a handful of consecutive starts to evaluate him. They still wiffed mightily when they gave him a 6 year, $60M extension.

Teams miss on both ends of the spectrum when you don't get to see a guy play for a large enough sample. Aaron Rodgers is the only current example of a guy who rode the pine for more than one season and is currently playing at a high level for the team who drafted him. Pretty small sample.

I think you conviently forget the Bree's had a serious shoulder injurery (thanks to AtwaterIIRC)

So that decision was not as hard or a bad one considering they had drafted Rivers because Bree's sucked it up the first couple of years in SAN.

BTW Rivers was on the pine for those couple of years IIRC because he could not beat breeze out.

NO ONE thought breeze would come back and play like he has. N O ONE. One of the reasons his initial contract w as not a biggie. Now he is going to be paid.

As I have said repeatedly BO like TT was a project. IIRC a one year starter in @ AZ that is very raw .. the perfect fit for being on the bench behind a HOF player. he is going to be a sponge the next few years and suck up all e knowledge that he can from the Johns and Manning.

w
Was he a luxury absolutely but at that spot I do not see an absolute starter that would have fit our schemes. This year or next. And frankly not sure why anyone is pissing and moaning about it..