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TheReverend
08-15-2012, 07:35 PM
Yes but go back to those weeks and look at their games Before they faced the broncos. All during Pregame I remember analysts talkin about how the lions couldnt get any pressure on QBs. Then the same for the dolphins. Check the sack total in the few games before they faced Denver. You'll be surprised


Lions only had 9 sacks the previous 4 games against their opponents. Had 7 against tebow/Denver.

This is quite literally one of the most absurd spin posts I've ever had the misfortune of reading. I mean, you're knocking those teams pass rush but do you realize that they'd be still be above league average in sacking even without the the high amount they got vs Denver, right?

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-15-2012, 07:37 PM
This is quite literally one of the most absurd spin posts I've ever had the misfortune of reading. I mean, you're knocking those teams pass rush but do you realize that they'd be still be above league average in sacking even without the the high amount they got vs Denver, right?

Sure I do. But I also realize they were not pressuring any QBs up until they faced Denver. So it seems tebow and the Oline got them off their slide. Dolphins had hardly any sacks until that 6th game.

TheReverend
08-15-2012, 07:42 PM
Sure I do. But I also realize they were not pressuring any QBs up until they faced Denver. So it seems tebow and the Oline got them off their slide. Dolphins had hardly any sacks until that 6th game.

You also referenced how few sacks we gave up until Tebow

...and neglected to mention how Tennessee and Green Bay are 2 of the bottom 5 sackers in the NFL last year. Or about how Oakland (a worse pressure team than Detroit OR Miami) sacked the other QB 5x in the opener.

You're making an argument that literally has no foundation or support in anything grounded in reality.

DBroncos4life
08-15-2012, 07:42 PM
Sure I do. But I also realize they were not pressuring any QBs up until they faced Denver. So it seems tebow and the Oline got them off their slide. Dolphins had hardly any sacks until that 6th game.

They would drop from 10th to 17th in sacks without that game.

DENVERDUI55
08-15-2012, 07:43 PM
This is quite literally one of the most absurd spin posts I've ever had the misfortune of reading. I mean, you're knocking those teams pass rush but do you realize that they'd be still be above league average in sacking even without the the high amount they got vs Denver, right?

Bet KCpudlike. Cherrypicked!

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-15-2012, 07:45 PM
You also referenced how few sacks we gave up until Tebow

...and neglected to mention how Tennessee and Green Bay are 2 of the bottom 5 sackers in the NFL last year. Or about how Oakland (a worse pressure team than Detroit OR Miami) sacked the other QB 5x in the opener.

You're making an argument that literally has no foundation or support in anything grounded in reality.

You call me out for spinning 2 teams who struggled for sacks until the Denver game, then spin 8 or 9 sacks in 5 games as terrible and not warranted cause it was against lackluster defenses? Richard Seymour would disagree.

TheReverend
08-15-2012, 07:46 PM
They would drop from 10th to 17th in sacks without that game.

Higher. You can't COMPLETELY remove the stat and compare it against teams who had an extra game to rack more stats.

BroncoBeavis
08-15-2012, 07:46 PM
You also referenced how few sacks we gave up until Tebow

...and neglected to mention how Tennessee and Green Bay are 2 of the bottom 5 sackers in the NFL last year. Or about how Oakland (a worse pressure team than Detroit OR Miami) sacked the other QB 5x in the opener.

You're making an argument that literally has no foundation or support in anything grounded in reality.

It's totally bogus to compare the 2010 and 2011 Broncos because a few players somewhere on the field were different. But we CAN compare different games against different teams where more than half of the players on the field are different.

Don't you get it? :)

BroncoBeavis
08-15-2012, 07:47 PM
Higher. You can't COMPLETELY remove the stat and compare it against teams who had an extra game to rack more stats.

Teboner! Orton would have had ZERO SACKS and you KNOW it! :)

TheReverend
08-15-2012, 07:49 PM
You call me out for spinning 2 teams who struggled for sacks until the Denver game, then spin 8 or 9 sacks in 5 games as terrible and not warranted cause it was against lackluster defenses? Richard Seymour would disagree.

No...

I'm calling you out because:

1. The Lions and Dolphins were a top 1/3rd of the NFL in pressure/sacks

2. We played crap as far as pressure teams in the first 5 games (outside of Cinci)

Two concrete facts that both completely illegitimize every aspect of your "point"

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-15-2012, 07:51 PM
Teboner! Orton would have had ZERO SACKS and you KNOW it! :)

Orton couldn't scramble away from a low flying turd rumbling messily down the field. Let's just watch how many sacks Manning gets this year with our "terrible Oline" that couldn't protect Tebow. I guarantee it will be less than 33 in 11 games. I'll even put money on it.

BroncoBeavis
08-15-2012, 07:54 PM
No...

I'm calling you out because:

1. The Lions and Dolphins were a top 1/3rd of the NFL in pressure/sacks

2. We played crap as far as pressure teams in the first 5 games (outside of Cinci)

Two concrete facts that both completely illegitimize every aspect of your "point"

I think something's getting lost in translation. Can't Fro Spyros. That's what he's trying to say.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-15-2012, 07:55 PM
No...

I'm calling you out because:

1. The Lions and Dolphins were a top 1/3rd of the NFL in pressure/sacks

2. We played crap as far as pressure teams in the first 5 games (outside of Cinci)

Two concrete facts that both completely illegitimize every aspect of your "point"


1. Again both teams were slumping at the time we played them.
2. Teams didn't stick their entire defense in the backfield those 5 games. When a punt protector comes in, defenses cocked back and unloaded 8-11 in the box. More blitzes. That all equals more sacks. The reason? the QB

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-15-2012, 07:57 PM
I think something's getting lost in translation. Can't Fro Spyros. That's what he's trying to say.

You saying I talk like a black person, or are you insulting I'm black? Cause "can't fro spyros" sounds racist to me.

TheReverend
08-15-2012, 07:57 PM
1. Again both teams were slumping at the time we played them.
2. Teams didn't stick their entire defense in the backfield those 5 games. When a punt protector comes in, defenses cocked back and unloaded 8-11 in the box. More blitzes. That all equals more sacks. The reason? the QB

http://emotibot.net/pix/5583.gif

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-15-2012, 07:59 PM
I see this board became racial real quick.

DBroncos4life
08-15-2012, 08:01 PM
Higher. You can't COMPLETELY remove the stat and compare it against teams who had an extra game to rack more stats.

At best they would be 15th/16th. They wouldn't be higher then NE, Raiders, or the Rams.

E_Rox
08-15-2012, 08:06 PM
Posting questionable sources seems to work for some so I remembered this guy from the radio first part of the year. Kuper All NFL from a Dallas beat writer.

http://denver.sbnation.com/denver-broncos/2012/1/4/2680318/rick-gosselin-all-nfl-team-2012-von-miller-chris-kuper

E_Rox
08-15-2012, 08:08 PM
You saying I talk like a black person, or are you insulting I'm black? Cause "can't fro spyros" sounds racist to me.

Give 'em hell Elvis

BroncoBeavis
08-15-2012, 08:09 PM
You saying I talk like a black person, or are you insulting I'm black? Cause "can't fro spyros" sounds racist to me.

Really?

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-15-2012, 08:10 PM
Give 'em hell Elvis

Sup Yi. Hope all is good.

bombay
08-15-2012, 08:11 PM
Our best lineman in terms of reliability and play. This is gonna hurt.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-15-2012, 08:12 PM
Really?

Ya. Kinda like when bigots throw that F Sound out there when making fun of people who say certain words wrong. This Earf is big enough to hold more than white folk.

TheReverend
08-15-2012, 08:12 PM
At best they would be 15th/16th. They wouldn't be higher then NE, Raiders, or the Rams.

Still top half... and that's removing their big games vs Denver WHILE ALLOWING OAK TO KEEP THEIR BIG GAME AGAINST DENVER

This discussion is NONSENSE.

TheReverend
08-15-2012, 08:13 PM
Ya. Kinda like when bigots throw that F Sound out there when making fun of people who say certain words wrong. This Earf is big enough to hold more than white folk.

You might be the most sensitive person I've ever witnessed.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-15-2012, 08:14 PM
You might be the most sensitive person I've ever witnessed.

Well I am listening to Emo right now.

theAPAOps5
08-15-2012, 08:15 PM
Ya. Kinda like when bigots throw that F Sound out there when making fun of people who say certain words wrong. This Earf is big enough to hold more than white folk.

What in the **** are you talking about.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-15-2012, 08:16 PM
What in the **** are you talking about.

Using the term fro instead of throw is funny. Unless the person is black.

BroncoBeavis
08-15-2012, 08:25 PM
Using the term fro instead of throw is funny. Unless the person is black.

It started somewhere around here:

.

colorado jones
08-15-2012, 09:45 PM
Using the term fro instead of throw is funny. Unless the person is black.

You are black?!?!

This entire time I thought you were a puppet.

SoCalBronco
08-15-2012, 09:46 PM
You are black?!?!

This entire time I thought you were a puppet.

Hilarious!

Kaylore
08-15-2012, 09:55 PM
Ya. Kinda like when bigots throw that F Sound out there when making fun of people who say certain words wrong.

I talk to my daughter this way. She is 1/4 Japanese.

Simply Red
08-15-2012, 10:01 PM
THIS was a great thread idea ALSO!

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-15-2012, 10:04 PM
You are black?!?!

This entire time I thought you were a puppet.

Oh that's me. If you notice my skin is dark, yet I have white mans hair.

Simply Red
08-15-2012, 10:20 PM
Oh that's me. If you notice my skin is dark, yet I have white mans hair.

we have to end apartheid, for one,

slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger.

We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless...

and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights,

while also promoting equal rights for women.

We have to encourage a return...

to traditional moral values.

Most importantly,

we have to promote general social concern...

and less materialism in young people.

TonyR
08-16-2012, 06:01 AM
Apparently Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan of Sirius XM NFL Radio were at Dove Valley yesterday. Among the many observations IAOFM noted this is probably the worst:

Kirwan and Ryan both expressed some concern about the Broncos’ ability to get a conventional running game blocked effectively, especially as long as Chris Kuper is out. The Broncos will probably have to throw to set up the run, and Manning will need to pick his spots when he has matchup advantages in the box.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/bite-size-nuggets-paraphrasing-mtc-at-dove-valley

BroncoInferno
08-16-2012, 06:11 AM
Apparently Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan of Sirius XM NFL Radio were at Dove Valley yesterday. Among the many observations IAOFM noted this is probably the worst:

Kirwan and Ryan both expressed some concern about the Broncos’ ability to get a conventional running game blocked effectively, especially as long as Chris Kuper is out. The Broncos will probably have to throw to set up the run, and Manning will need to pick his spots when he has matchup advantages in the box.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/bite-size-nuggets-paraphrasing-mtc-at-dove-valley

Eh, Manning dealt with this problem in Indy, too. That's the sweet thing about having an elite QB...they can mask other issues the team may have.

cmhargrove
08-16-2012, 06:48 AM
Apparently Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan of Sirius XM NFL Radio were at Dove Valley yesterday. Among the many observations IAOFM noted this is probably the worst:

Kirwan and Ryan both expressed some concern about the Broncos’ ability to get a conventional running game blocked effectively, especially as long as Chris Kuper is out. The Broncos will probably have to throw to set up the run, and Manning will need to pick his spots when he has matchup advantages in the box.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/bite-size-nuggets-paraphrasing-mtc-at-dove-valley

I don't think this changes things one iota. We all know we didn't have the best run blocking line in the NFL last year, but we did rush for the most yards. We need Peyton to be Peyton, force defences into the Nickle, then McGahee can eat them up. Unfortunately, other teams know this as well.

My only (initial) concern is Tamme. Peyton was really looking to open up the offense by relying on a quick passing game to Tamme and so far he looked... meh. Hopefully that was preseason rust and their chemistry develops as the year progresses. I would actually like to see them send a couple short passes to KM to see how opposing defenses react. If Moreno has any place on this team, it is because he is a superior receiving RB. However, Manning was certainly looking to start a quick timing game, and it wasn't quite there yet.

We'll see this Saturday.

TheReverend
08-16-2012, 06:57 AM
Apparently Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan of Sirius XM NFL Radio were at Dove Valley yesterday. Among the many observations IAOFM noted this is probably the worst:

Kirwan and Ryan both expressed some concern about the Broncos’ ability to get a conventional running game blocked effectively, especially as long as Chris Kuper is out. The Broncos will probably have to throw to set up the run, and Manning will need to pick his spots when he has matchup advantages in the box.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/bite-size-nuggets-paraphrasing-mtc-at-dove-valley

They can't be right. I heard we had the best run game in the league because Tebow sucked?

BroncoBeavis
08-16-2012, 07:11 AM
They can't be right. I heard we had the best run game in the league because Tebow sucked?

Eff off Rev. Nobody could've predicted this. LOL

cutthemdown
08-16-2012, 07:34 AM
Our interior oline could be weakest in the NFL without Kuper.

Beantown Bronco
08-16-2012, 07:40 AM
Our interior oline could be weakest in the NFL without Kuper.

It might be even WITH Kuper. Without him, I don't even see an argument. What other team has two guys that have been ranked at or near #32 in the league at their respective positions over the last two years?

55CrushEm
08-16-2012, 07:49 AM
I talk to my daughter this way. She is 1/4 Japanese.

ROR!

:)

Beantown Bronco
08-16-2012, 07:53 AM
I talk to my daughter this way. She is 1/4 Japanese.

I don't envy you when she gets her learner's driving permit and is looking for someone to ride shotgun.

TheReverend
08-16-2012, 08:01 AM
I don't envy you when she gets her learner's driving permit and is looking for someone to ride shotgun.

She'll make up for it in AP Math.

Brewer
08-16-2012, 08:14 AM
She'll make up for it in AP Math.

What's AP Meth?

lonestar
08-16-2012, 08:34 AM
Our interior oline could be weakest in the NFL without Kuper.

The sky is falling the sky is falling. Woe is me.

E_Rox
08-16-2012, 08:57 AM
Apparently Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan of Sirius XM NFL Radio were at Dove Valley yesterday. Among the many observations IAOFM noted this is probably the worst:

Kirwan and Ryan both expressed some concern about the Broncos’ ability to get a conventional running game blocked effectively, especially as long as Chris Kuper is out. The Broncos will probably have to throw to set up the run, and Manning will need to pick his spots when he has matchup advantages in the box.
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/bite-size-nuggets-paraphrasingt-mtc-at-dove-valley

What they also said was that their 12 personnel maybe the hardest matchup in all the league. The Denver stop was last on MTC for a reason for this host tandem. They were more than complimentary about throwing for short yardage situations and did not think it was going to be an issue at all. After three hours of listening to them I did have they warm and fuzzy's. They were on after the Kuper break and still talked highly of both sides of the ball.

TonyR
08-16-2012, 08:57 AM
They can't be right. I heard we had the best run game in the league because Tebow sucked?

I thought it was that we had the worst passing game in the league because our coaches sucked?

RaiderH8r
08-16-2012, 09:11 AM
It might be even WITH Kuper. Without him, I don't even see an argument. What other team has two guys that have been ranked at or near #32 in the league at their respective positions over the last two years?

Dude, relax. Peyton Manning fixes EVERYTHING. We're cool. If Tebow, the suckiest suck that ever sucked, can take this rag tag bunch of scrappers into the playoffs and win Manning can win the SB and start a manned colony on Mars. This thing is in the bag.

TheReverend
08-16-2012, 09:15 AM
I thought it was that we had the worst passing game in the league because our coaches sucked?

You forgot drops.

DENVERDUI55
08-16-2012, 09:18 AM
They can't be right. I heard we had the best run game in the league because Tebow sucked?

Wasn't it the coaching wanting Tebow to fail at passing?

Requiem
08-16-2012, 09:19 AM
Timethy Tebow.

TheReverend
08-16-2012, 09:21 AM
Wasn't it the coaching wanting Tebow to fail at passing?

No, no, its that they wouldnt let him pass until the final 2 minutes.

cutthemdown
08-16-2012, 11:05 AM
It might be even WITH Kuper. Without him, I don't even see an argument. What other team has two guys that have been ranked at or near #32 in the league at their respective positions over the last two years?

Sadly I agree, and I like Kuper. I just think for him to really operate he needs players on both sides on him playing well. I think Walton And Beadles could have all pro's next to them and would still stink.

I was actually shocked we didn't work that area more this offseason. Obviously Elway disagree with us. I hope he is right. Obviously the fact Manning gets rid of ball, could get 7 in the box a lot could offset it. I'm not saying we can't win games. I am saying get ready to be frustrated when its 3-3 and our oline won't allow us to run the ball consistently. Or when we get so much penetration inside, ala Jets last yr we just cant run any offense consistently.

But Elway most likely on a 3 yr plan. Last yr he got Miller and some other decent looking players, this yr he scores manning, by next yr he will see what Manning needs added to the offense to make this thing work.

IMO next yr the offense will be looking for OLINE. It makes sense because we have young WR, young TE and some vets, Young RB in hillman etc etc. Oline is the one area the young ones, Walton and Beadles, really just dont seem like NFL starters. Kuper is, he may even be way better then i think, either way though he needs help inside.

I don't even need to wait to watch this yrs games to know we will see our interior oline struggle vs players like Richard Seymore. Against teams without bigtime DT it may not show as much.

BroncoBuff
08-16-2012, 06:13 PM
What's with all the Beadles hate? Too many of us lump Walton and Beadles together- not fair to Beadles - and we pay way too much attention to "sources" that rank players. Iirc, one of those idiot sources watched a piece of film last season and declared Chris Kuper the worst o-lineman in the league (not to be confused with the other idiot source who ranked Walton the worst).

Our O-line is average, right in the middle. McGahee managed a 4.8 average despite the least credible passing attack in the league. We're not a Shanny-Gibbs ZBS team anymore, 4.8's don't grow on trees like they did then. Just ask Clinton Portis.

Beadles has some decent accomplishments...

• A third-year offensive guard who played all 16 regular-season games in each of his first two professional seasons and is tied for fourth among offensive linemen who entered the NFL in 2010 with 30 career starts.
• Opened all 16 games during the regular season and started both playoff contests for the Broncos in 2011, helping the league’s top rushing offense (164.5 ypg.) set the franchise single-season rushing mark.
• Named to The Sporting News’ All-Rookie Team in 2010 after opening eight contests at left guard and six contests at right tackle, becoming the first NFL rookie since Andre Gurode (Dal., 2002) to start at least six games at two of the three positions along the offensive line (C, G, T).
• Called for just one holding penalty during his first two NFL seasons to represent one of just 16 NFL offensive linemen with 30 starts and one or fewer holding calls from 2010-11.

BroncoBuff
08-16-2012, 06:19 PM
To state it more succinctly: Beadles ain't your bitch, stop treatin him like he is.

BroncoBuff
08-16-2012, 06:28 PM
To state it more succinctly: Beadles ain't your b****, stop treatin him like he is.

Good point. Besides, we must be as good the Raiders over the last few ... they were starting Cooper Carlisle and Cornell Greeen until a year or two ago.

TheReverend
08-16-2012, 06:32 PM
Good point. Besides, we must be as good the Raiders over the last few ... they were starting Cooper Carlisle and Cornell Greeen until a year or two ago.

You just confirmed my suspicion that when you don't post for a few days it's because you're busy arguing with yourself.

pricejj
08-16-2012, 06:39 PM
Our interior oline could be weakest in the NFL without Kuper.

Even with Kuper, it was ****ty pre-Tebow. Been saying this.

During the first pre-season game the Broncos sucked rushing on first down. It ain't going to cut it.

BroncoBuff
08-16-2012, 07:12 PM
You just confirmed my suspicion that when you don't post for a few days it's because you're busy arguing with yourself.

So then ... who am I supposed to argue with when nobody else responds to my provocations? Who then, Smart Guy? Who then, MIS-ter 30-kay??

I'll tell you who .... I turn to the one adversary who's always been there, who's always faithful (lower case). He's left me battered and bloody more than few times, but he never shrinks from a fight.

Or something like that.