Recount on HBO ...... voter fraud ?

[Jetmeck]

Watch it and learn..............voters were purged and indented and hanging chads not counted even though Gov. Bush of Texas signed into law a bill stating that those exact type of hanging chads and indentations would be counted so there you go...................

We watch ten years later many states are purging voters and voter ID laws instated even though there is no evidence WHATSOEVER that there is any voter fraud. These affect mainly democratic voters because they are poor and cannot get the new ID and many do not have driver's license because they live in inner city.

So am I wrong to think this is not a coincidence that only republican led state legislatures are making laws that would mainly impact democratic voters and these states just happen to be in close elections the last few years....????

How can the public's memory be so short to put the dumbasses right back in only two years after we got the retards out that ****ed us all so badly ? I wanna blame the idiot republican for their ways but you have to understand they have been emboldend (?) by the public put them back in so quickly. I mean they feel like they can get away with anything right in your face last few years.................................

WAKE UP.............................

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So am I wrong to think this is not a coincidence that only republican led state legislatures are making laws that would mainly impact democratic voters and these states just happen to be in close elections the last few years....????

No - you're not wrong.

These jackals know that rigging elections is the only way they can win.

There are simply too many of us and too few people like Romney (and his sycophants) in this country.

How can the public's memory be so short to put the dumbasses right back in only two years after we got the retards out that ****ed us all so badly ? I wanna blame the idiot republican for their ways but you have to understand they have been emboldend (?) by the public put them back in so quickly. I mean they feel like they can get away with anything right in your face last few years.................................


How?

1) These right-wing mouth breathers support the GOP the same way they support their favorite football team. That is, no matter how many dirty players are on the team, and no matter how egregiously the team screws up, you don't "quit on your team." It's all about loyalty without content.

2) Those same rubes who vote GOP truly admire bullies, thugs, and white collar crooks (who share their values.) Most of them hope to be just like Romney someday. All that matters is profit and personal gain - the laws you break and the people you step on are irrelevant in their value system.

[Jetmeck]

Where are the republicans in here to dispute the facts about 19 states either purging voters or enacting laws for voter ID even though no voter fraud exists and it is only happening in closely contested states by republican led legislatures...........................????? here boy....come on, red meat......

[lonestar]

Where are the republicans in here to dispute the facts about 19 states either purging voters or enacting laws for voter ID even though no voter fraud exists and it is only happening in closely contested states by republican led legislatures...........................????? here boy....come on, red meat......

I know that voter fraud is happening I saw the same folks getting off the bus that la raza was shuttling people to from poling places..

A few years ago I witnessed them bringing in voters for early voting..

I saw some of the same folks come back every other day, I saw them handing the voters cheat sheets some with real names on them of which buttons to push/levers to pull..

When they go back on the bus they were given a box lunch and a drink, and then taken back to homeless centers or the street corners they were begging at..

I followed the bus once to see where they were going.. Two days later many of the same folks got off the bus were given the cheat sheets to vote again and back on for lunch and a ride..

I gave some of those discarded sheets to the polling captain who said she would handle it..

Sure enough no more sheets on the ground they had to hand them back to get their lunch..

I tried letting the press know but it fell on deaf ears..

SO please do not tell me there is not fraud going on.. Simple ID would eliminate those guys from voting 3 to God only knows 15 times going to a different early voters place during that early voting season..

At least here in TX all they have to do is tell them their name they look it up and cross it off their printouts..

Since anyone can vote at any polling place in the early voting the same "named" person could vote at every spot and they would never know..

Yes that is called fraud..

Hopefully in the near future all Voting will be done via computer and once you have voted your name will not be able to be used again..

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

^

L0L! :laugh:

Right-wingnuts and their anecdotal "evidence."

[houghtam]

I know that voter fraud is happening I saw the same folks getting off the bus that la raza was shuttling people to from poling places..

A few years ago I witnessed them bringing in voters for early voting..

I saw some of the same folks come back every other day, I saw them handing the voters cheat sheets some with real names on them of which buttons to push/levers to pull..

When they go back on the bus they were given a box lunch and a drink, and then taken back to homeless centers or the street corners they were begging at..

I followed the bus once to see where they were going.. Two days later many of the same folks got off the bus were given the cheat sheets to vote again and back on for lunch and a ride..

I gave some of those discarded sheets to the polling captain who said she would handle it..

Sure enough no more sheets on the ground they had to hand them back to get their lunch..

I tried letting the press know but it fell on deaf ears..

SO please do not tell me there is not fraud going on.. Simple ID would eliminate those guys from voting 3 to God only knows 15 times going to a different early voters place during that early voting season..

At least here in TX all they have to do is tell them their name they look it up and cross it off their printouts..

Since anyone can vote at any polling place in the early voting the same "named" person could vote at every spot and they would never know..

Yes that is called fraud..

Hopefully in the near future all Voting will be done via computer and once you have voted your name will not be able to be used again..

Lies.

Outright lies.

If someone like you could come up with evidence like that, there would definitely be evidence somewhere which points to voter fraud being a problem. However, when, you know, independent analysts and even analysts from the political party trying to pass the voter ID laws say there really is no evidence to support it, people like you refer to something like this that you read on FoxNews...which also didn't have actual evidence of it happening.

Full to the brim with BS.

[lonestar]

Lies.

Outright lies.

If someone like you could come up with evidence like that, there would definitely be evidence somewhere which points to voter fraud being a problem. However, when, you know, independent analysts and even analysts from the political party trying to pass the voter ID laws say there really is no evidence to support it, people like you refer to something like this that you read on FoxNews...which also didn't have actual evidence of it happening.

Full to the brim with BS.

fact of life, my evidence was Handed to the polling place captain..

actually thought they would do something about it.. BESIDES let the La Raza folks know they had to be more careful..

Should have made copies but really had confidence they would do teh right thing..

When I talked with local reporters, because I did not have hard documents, I knew not much would happen and never heard from them again.. Figured that as corrupt as Juarez was the apples did not fall to far from that tree..

Now I do my part show up on voting day and KNOW that my vote is not worth a crap..

However the rep we have had for almost ever got his ass beat in the primaries so Reyes is gone from Washington.. I doubt the new guy that goes there will be any better but at least he may help do something with Border Control..


As far as Fox news is concerned I can't remember that last time I watched maybe last time I was in OKC sometime in 2011.. SO I can't say whether your correct or not..

[houghtam]

fact of life, my evidence was Handed to the polling place captain..

actually thought they would do something about it.. BESIDES let the La Raza folks know they had to be more careful..

Should have made copies but really had confidence they would do teh right thing..

When I talked with local reporters, because I did not have hard documents, I knew not much would happen and never heard from them again.. Figured that as corrupt as Juarez was the apples did not fall to far from that tree..

Now I do my part show up on voting day and KNOW that my vote is not worth a crap..

However the rep we have had for almost ever got his ass beat in the primaries so Reyes is gone from Washington.. I doubt the new guy that goes there will be any better but at least he may help do something with Border Control..


As far as Fox news is concerned I can't remember that last time I watched maybe last time I was in OKC sometime in 2011.. SO I can't say whether your correct or not..

Lies.

[lonestar]

Lies.

prove it. that is right you can't..

The drop off point was right outside my office should have caught it on Video tape but I did not . Learned something out of it.. the local voting group was crooked..

But It does not matter because my little corner of the world is wiped out by the rest of Texas.. Hilarious!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

prove it.

The burden of proof is on you.

You're the one who made the claim(s.) :wave:

[houghtam]

prove it. that is right you can't..

The drop off point was right outside my office should have caught it on Video tape but I did not . Learned something out of it.. the local voting group was crooked..

But It does not matter because my little corner of the world is wiped out by the rest of Texas.. Hilarious!

"There is such thing as bigfoot. I saw him with my own eyes. YOU CAN'T PROVE I DIDN'T SO IT MUST BE TRUE!!"

You're completely full of ****. It never happened and you know it. Aw shucks I shoulda gotten proof. Damn right you should have.

That's the problem with making ridiculous claims without evidence. You post it on a message board or call into a talk show or tweet it to Fix as fact, and then some other dumb **** sees it and believes it happened, and then all the sudden you have support for ballot measures that are attempting to solve a problem that doesn't exist. When or if they eventually get passed, it ends up potentially disenfranchising tens - or hundreds - of thousands of people. And "oh look...they just happen to be voting democrat. OOPS!"

It is unconscionable that anyone would want to take away the basic right to vote. If minorities or poor people aren't going to vote for you, the democratic way to solve the problem is to change your policies, not deny people the right to vote.

Oh and just in case I forget before I go, lonestar...

Complete. And utter. Bull****.

Never happened.

Hilarious!

[Garcia Bronco]

I've had to produce ID everytime I've ever voted. So I am not sure what the issue is.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/524378_456944070994130_1365376840_n.jpg

[houghtam]

I've had to produce ID everytime I've ever voted. So I am not sure what the issue is.

I've never had to produce ID. So I am not sure what the issue is.

[Jetmeck]

There is no proof...............several states have been taken to court by Obama and have yet to produce any evidence whatsoever.

Trying to steal the election like what happened in 2000 by not counting the votes. If there was any proof it would be front and center.

Kinda curious its only in republican led legislatures in close election states.

[houghtam]

There is no proof...............several states have been taken to court by Obama and have yet to produce any evidence whatsoever.

Trying to steal the election like what happened in 2000 by not counting the votes. If there was any proof it would be front and center.

Kinda curious its only in republican led legislatures in close election states.

Well you see, how it happened is that the democrats bussed in voters to all of those districts first. Now, the republicans are just passing these ballot measures because the democrats cheated first...even though, you know...there's no evidence of that.

[houghtam]

I've had to produce ID everytime I've ever voted. So I am not sure what the issue is.

If you voted in Colorado prior to 2003, that's not true. You may have decided on your own to show ID, but you were not required to.

You also do not currently have to show photo ID in Colorado. All you need is a bill with your name and address on it.

[Jetmeck]

OHIO is at it as we speak. Democratic leaning counties denied early voting and extended hours while those same things are allowed in republican leaning counties ?
What more proof do we need ?

[houghtam]

OHIO is at it as we speak. Democratic leaning counties denied early voting and extended hours while those same things are allowed in republican leaning counties ?
What more proof do we need ?

Sad to see what's happening in my adopted home state. Good to see the local media blowing up about it.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/08/10/toledo-blade-slams-fox-news-and-romney-campaign/189241

After the election in 2004, it was discovered that thousands of voters had been effectively disenfranchised due to long lines and faulty machinery, necessitating the expansion of early voting in the state. More than 1.7 million Ohioans voted early in the 2008 presidential election. Ohio however has ended early voting the weekend prior to Election Day to all except members of the military and their families and voters overseas.

http://drjasonjohnson.com/2012/07/18/cleveland-plain-dealer-jason-johnson-on-early-voting-in-cuyahoga-county/

“What really disgusts me about this is it has nothing to do with policy, nothing to do with message, nothing to do with whether Mitt Romney or Barack Obama are better candidates. This is nothing other than cheating and disrupting people’s right to vote.”

Fortunately it looks like the powers that be in Ohio are going to do the right thing in this situation and allow early voting for everyone. Which is the way it should be.

[Jetmeck]

Sad to see what's happening in my adopted home state. Good to see the local media blowing up about it.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2012/08/10/toledo-blade-slams-fox-news-and-romney-campaign/189241



http://drjasonjohnson.com/2012/07/18/cleveland-plain-dealer-jason-johnson-on-early-voting-in-cuyahoga-county/



Fortunately it looks like the powers that be in Ohio are going to do the right thing in this situation and allow early voting for everyone. Which is the way it should be.



Great posts and good info. This about the right to vote by everyone .......even idiots like pricejj deserved a right to vote.

[Garcia Bronco]

I've never had to produce ID. So I am not sure what the issue is.

Really? So how do they determine if you are even voting in the right district? What's to stop you from going from office to office casting votes? Nothing. I've voted in Virginia and Colorado and always had to produce ID. It sounds like where you live isn't taking the vote process seriously.

[houghtam]

Really? So how do they determine if you are even voting in the right district? What's to stop you from going from office to office casting votes? Nothing. I've voted in Virginia and Colorado and always had to produce ID. It sounds like where you live isn't taking the vote process seriously.

Not prior to 2003 you didn't.

Voter fraud is not an issue and never has been. These are all simply efforts to suppress votes. Read the resources out there. It's being applied unevenly to democratic and republican districts. You really think this is about keeping the sanctity of voting? LOL

This is all over and above three other facts (you know, besides voter fraud not being an issue). Number one, as stated, some people do not have birth certificates. Number two, as stated, some people either cannot afford IDs or it is inconvenient for them to get one. I would not have voted during college if I had needed an ID to do so. Number three, and probably the most important, there is no law, nor has there ever been, requiring a US citizen to carry or possess identification. Voting is a guaranteed right, and you can't impose unfair sanctions (especially unevenly applied sanctions) on those who do not have ID.

Tell you what. We can reach across the aisle on this one. Both sides will have to concede something very dear to them. How many gun deaths have been caused by free exercise of the Second Amendment? I can guarantee you it's exponentially greater than the number of incidents of voter fraud. So let's do this: you give us strict gun control based on our evidence, and we'll give you strict voter ID laws based on your lack of evidence. See how that works?

No?

Didn't think so.

[Rohirrim]

This is just more of the same GOP fear mongering that they've used for thirty years to get the suckers to vote for them. Here are the "fear" issues that the GOP has run on for thirty years: Flag burning. Immigration. Gay marriage. Abortion. Death panels. Etc. And in thirty years what have they done about any of them? Answer: Zip.

[Jetmeck]

\\


Tell you what. We can reach across the aisle on this one. Both sides will have to concede something very dear to them. How many gun deaths have been caused by free exercise of the Second Amendment? I can guarantee you it's exponentially greater than the number of incidents of voter fraud. So let's do this: you give us strict gun control based on our evidence, and we'll give you strict voter ID laws based on your lack of evidence. See how that works?

No?

Didn't think so.



good stuff there......really

As for voting never had to produce ID to vote either and you can only vote in the county you are registered in so if someone voted in my place and I came to vote and they said heh you already voted I know I would raise holy hell............................

so where is all the proof and pissed off people saying their vote was stolen......................

[houghtam]

good stuff there......really

As for voting never had to produce ID to vote either and you can only vote in the county you are registered in so if someone voted in my place and I came to vote and they said heh you already voted I know I would raise holy hell............................

so where is all the proof and pissed off people saying their vote was stolen......................

If that happened, all you'd need to do is vote using a provisional ballot. They then verify who is who and cast out the ballot that was cast incorrectly.

It's not really that hard. OMG HOW DID PEOPLE VOTE BEFORE PHOTO IDS?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Looking back at some of the "highlights" of 2000 and 2004, I just have to shake my head in disbelief and laugh at these GOP jackals who raise the subject of election fraud.

Nothing fraudulent about the FL Sec of State (who is also the state campaign chair for the GOP candidate) hiring a company to purge thousands of voters from the rolls by falsely designating them as "felons" (and later losing a lawsuit over the matter in which she admits guilt.)

No sir!

[houghtam]

http://www.toledoblade.com/Politics/2012/08/14/Edict-looms-on-limits-for-early-voting.html

So here's what's happening.

In Ohio, each district has an election commission consisting of two Democrats and two Republicans. When determining policy for the district, if there is a tie, the Secretary of State serves as the tiebreaker.

The districts have been told that if they can't decide on hours of operation, that the Secretary of State will step in and favor limiting operating hours to normal business hours, claiming that he doesn't want to force counties who can't afford it to stay open.

Then, in districts that voted for McCain (some of them rural and definitely in financial discord), the election boards are favoring opening hours up.

It's evil, what is happening. There's no other word for it. If you are going to enforce a policy, you enforce it evenly amongst all people. You don't just ****ing pick and choose. Jesus, talk about un-American activities...

Edit: The other thing to note is that early voting was brought about in Ohio after hundreds of thousands (3% of Ohio's registered voters) were disenfranchised in 2004 due to long lines. This directly resulted in Ohio passing these early voting laws. Now they only want to apply them as it is convenient to their interests. **** that, this is America.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The REAL fraud...

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/527171_274322259335290_451574050_n.jpg

[Garcia Bronco]

Not prior to 2003 you didn't.

Voter fraud is not an issue and never has been. These are all simply efforts to suppress votes. Read the resources out there. It's being applied unevenly to democratic and republican districts. You really think this is about keeping the sanctity of voting? LOL

This is all over and above three other facts (you know, besides voter fraud not being an issue). Number one, as stated, some people do not have birth certificates. Number two, as stated, some people either cannot afford IDs or it is inconvenient for them to get one. I would not have voted during college if I had needed an ID to do so. Number three, and probably the most important, there is no law, nor has there ever been, requiring a US citizen to carry or possess identification. Voting is a guaranteed right, and you can't impose unfair sanctions (especially unevenly applied sanctions) on those who do not have ID.

Tell you what. We can reach across the aisle on this one. Both sides will have to concede something very dear to them. How many gun deaths have been caused by free exercise of the Second Amendment? I can guarantee you it's exponentially greater than the number of incidents of voter fraud. So let's do this: you give us strict gun control based on our evidence, and we'll give you strict voter ID laws based on your lack of evidence. See how that works?

No?

Didn't think so.

I didn't say there was a voter fraud problem. What I said was I don't see a problem with having people use a state ID to identify themselves. In fact...we make a state ID the voter registration card. Further...if someone cannot identify themselves then there are measures that can be taken to prove that. I can understand someone not being able to afford one, but conve? That's a crock of ****. Fine...we'll make all Id's a part of state income tax. And for those that do not pay state income tax, we'll make them available through exception.


Further once we start tracking people that want to vote, we can better resource plan around social services and meet our health and human services spending more efficiently. Remember too the career politicans don't want people to vote, and I don't care what side of the fence they fall on. I want everybody to vote. I want us to be efficent and cost effective.

[Garcia Bronco]

good stuff there......really

As for voting never had to produce ID to vote either and you can only vote in the county you are registered in so if someone voted in my place and I came to vote and they said heh you already voted I know I would raise holy hell............................

so where is all the proof and pissed off people saying their vote was stolen......................

That's one kind of voter fraud. What would be some other examples of voter fraud?

[bronco militia]

Not prior to 2003 you didn't.

Voter fraud is not an issue and never has been. These are all simply efforts to suppress votes. Read the resources out there. It's being applied unevenly to democratic and republican districts. You really think this is about keeping the sanctity of voting? LOL

This is all over and above three other facts (you know, besides voter fraud not being an issue). Number one, as stated, some people do not have birth certificates. Number two, as stated, some people either cannot afford IDs or it is inconvenient for them to get one. I would not have voted during college if I had needed an ID to do so. Number three, and probably the most important, there is no law, nor has there ever been, requiring a US citizen to carry or possess identification. Voting is a guaranteed right, and you can't impose unfair sanctions (especially unevenly applied sanctions) on those who do not have ID.

Tell you what. We can reach across the aisle on this one. Both sides will have to concede something very dear to them. How many gun deaths have been caused by free exercise of the Second Amendment? I can guarantee you it's exponentially greater than the number of incidents of voter fraud. So let's do this: you give us strict gun control based on our evidence, and we'll give you strict voter ID laws based on your lack of evidence. See how that works?

No?

Didn't think so.

I've been voting since 1990...I've had to produce an ID every time in Colorado (if I did not vote absentee or used a mail-in ballot)

[Garcia Bronco]

I've been voting since 1990...I've had to produce an ID every time in Colorado (if I did not vote absentee or used a mail-in ballot)

Since 94 for me. And FYI Hought...I've lived in CO since 2006.

[houghtam]

I've been voting since 1990...I've had to produce an ID every time in Colorado (if I did not vote absentee or used a mail-in ballot)

You may have volunteered to produce an ID, but you were not required. If you were asked to do so prior to 2003, the poll worker was wrong to do so.

http://www.propublica.org/article/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-voter-id-laws

As a registered voter, I thought I always had to supply some form of ID during an election.

Not quite. Per federal law, first-time voters who registered by mail must present a photo ID or copy of a current bill or bank statement. Some states generally advise voters bring some form of photo ID. But prior to the 2006 election, no state ever required a voter to produce a government-issued photo ID as a condition to voting.

[TonyR]

I see the GOP is succeeding in PA, fighting non-existent voter fraud.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/08/15/voter_id_law_survives_in_pennsylvania.html

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/08/no-id-no-vote-ctd.html

[bronco militia]

You may have volunteered to produce an ID, but you were not required. If you were asked to do so prior to 2003, the poll worker was wrong to do so.

http://www.propublica.org/article/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-voter-id-laws

they ask for ID or a piece of mail to make sure you are voting in the correct precinct.

[Garcia Bronco]

You may have volunteered to produce an ID, but you were not required. If you were asked to do so prior to 2003, the poll worker was wrong to do so.

http://www.propublica.org/article/everything-youve-ever-wanted-to-know-about-voter-id-laws

Either way one would have to produce some kind of identification to vote. So again, I don't see what the problem is other than people pissing and moaning about what amounts to nothing. If the GOP thinks voter Id will win them elections, that's a problem. If democrats think a voter ID law will impact elections, that's a problem. It demostrates to us non-politcal party people that both parties are generally up to no-good.

[Garcia Bronco]

I see the GOP is succeeding in PA, fighted non-existent voter fraud.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/08/15/voter_id_law_survives_in_pennsylvania.html

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/08/no-id-no-vote-ctd.html

So you don't see the inherent problem with people not demostrating who they are when voting or that they are voting in the right place?

[TonyR]

So you don't see the inherent problem with people not demostrating who they are when voting or that they are voting in the right place?

The problem I have is that the GOP isn't doing this to stop voter fraud, because there is little if any. They're doing it to reduce the Dem vote.

[Garcia Bronco]

The problem I have is that the GOP isn't doing this to stop voter fraud, because there is little if any. They're doing it to reduce the Dem vote.

How would that reduce the "Democratic" vote? If there is no voter fraud problem, why does it matter? People are still going to vote their candicate whether they produce Id or not.

[houghtam]

1.) Either way one would have to produce some kind of identification to vote. So again, I don't see what the problem is other than people pissing and moaning about what amounts to nothing. If the GOP thinks voter Id will win them elections, that's a problem. 2.) If democrats think a voter ID law will impact elections, that's a problem. It demostrates to us non-politcal party people that both parties are generally up to no-good.

1.) Incorrect. The only time you have ever HAD to produce ID prior to 2003 was your first time voting.

2.) Could you please explain to me how wanting everyone to be able to exercise their voting rights freely is a problem? I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want the same.

The entire issue in Pennsylvania is partisan in nature, for many reasons, but I'll point out two of them...Number one, even in the most recent appellate arguments, those arguing in defense of the law conceded before the hearing that not only were there only four counts of voter fraud, but that this law would not have prevented those from happening. What fraud it would prevent from happening, there has never been any evidence of happening. Again, this argument was conceded by the very people who wrote the law. Secondly, if it wasn't partisan...if the only reason was to secure the polls, then why wait until the end of 2011 to pass it?

Furthermore, it is imperative to note that the Pennsylvania ID law doesn't just say you have to show ID. It says you have to show specific forms of ID from:

- The United States government, e.g., a U.S. passport
- The Commonwealth of PA, e.g., a driver’s license (NOTE: An expired driver’s license is okay as long as it is within 12 months after the expiration date)
- A PA municipality (e.g., city, county, borough, incorporated town) to municipal employees
- An accredited PA public or private institution of higher learning, e.g., a student card
- A PA care facility, which includes a long‐term care nursing facility, an assisted living residence or a personal care home
- U.S. Armed Forces branches or their reserves, including the PA National Guard (NOTE: The ID holder can be a veteran or current member; the expiration date can be indefinite.)

It has already been established that hundreds of thousands of people (mostly students, seniors, the poor and many minorities) do not have these forms of ID. Don't have them? No problem, all you need to do is apply for one using:

- Your social security card, AND
- Your official birth certificate (with a raised seal), certificate of U.S. citizenship, certificate of naturalization or a valid U.S. passport, AND
- Two proofs of residency, e.g., lease agreement, mortgage documents, W‐2 form, tax records or current utility bill

It's already been established that many people do not have a birth certificate, nor do they have access to one. Hell, if you were born out of state, you'd need to get your birth certificate from another state. Considering we're still waiting on our car's title from the great (****ty) state of Georgia (it's been 16 months now), you can see that it's not exactly a simple "oh just go get your birth certificate" solution. And that's if you're someone of means. Just what are you supposed to do if you have no way to get these items?

If you can't see, with all of this evidence in front of you, that this particular voter ID law, and voter ID laws in general, are aimed at stifling the vote of people who just-so-happen to normally vote Democratic...I have no idea what to tell you.

Also, just out of curiosity (I always ask this question of people who claim no party allegiance)... when was the last time you voted for a Democrat?

[houghtam]

Oh and let's not forget this gem:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EuOT1bRYdK8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania. Done!"

Yeah... Voter ID laws are just sound policy...no partisanship there!

:oyvey:

[Fedaykin]

Should be illegal to change voting laws in an election year/cycle.

The PA thing is a blatant example of partisan disenfranchisement of voters. If you can't see that, you're a fool.

[Rohirrim]

Oh and let's not forget this gem:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/EuOT1bRYdK8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania. Done!"

Yeah... Voter ID laws are just sound policy...no partisanship there!

:oyvey:

Damn! That's pretty blatant. I guess this guy doesn't give two ****s about the basic concepts of democracy.

[Garcia Bronco]

Should be illegal to change voting laws in an election year/cycle.



Agree with that 100 percent. That's what Florida was trying to do in 2000 and it was struck down by the SCOTUS

[Garcia Bronco]

"1.) Incorrect. The only time you have ever HAD to produce ID prior to 2003 was your first time voting."

And that is producing ID to vote. So what's wrong with doing it everytime.

2) This is neither unacceptable nor impossible to accomplish


I want everybody to vote. I want every citizens engaged with what our Government is doing. I also want to estalish that everyone who is allowed to vote can vote and that they are only counted once. I don't have a problem with voter ID and it's a simple matter of getting a state issued ID. I also think we can meet the needs of citizens that don't have their documentation. There is a place in every city where you can get your birth certificate if you don't have it. And wthin those institutions we can certainly create a process to make sure those without documentation can obtain documentation. It's not difficult.

I am not defending any states voter ID law or it's implementation. What I am saying is that we can certainly acheive this goal and I don't find it unreasonable to produce proof of who you are and where you live to vote. And I don't see why it needs to be an issue over time.

[BroncoLifer]

That's one kind of voter fraud. What would be some other examples of voter fraud?

Absentee votes has always been where the real fraud action is at, isn't it? Lyndon Johnson (or at least his friends) sure thought so.

[Garcia Bronco]

Absentee votes has always been where the real fraud action is at, isn't it? Lyndon Johnson (or at least his friends) sure thought so.

Agreed there too. that is potentially the biggest gap in controls. I think it should only be available to a small select group of people. I would also make voting day a national Holiday.

[houghtam]

"1.) Incorrect. The only time you have ever HAD to produce ID prior to 2003 was your first time voting."

And that is producing ID to vote. So what's wrong with doing it everytime.

2) This is neither unacceptable nor impossible to accomplish


I want everybody to vote. I want every citizens engaged with what our Government is doing. I also want to estalish that everyone who is allowed to vote can vote and that they are only counted once. I don't have a problem with voter ID and it's a simple matter of getting a state issued ID. I also think we can meet the needs of citizens that don't have their documentation. There is a place in every city where you can get your birth certificate if you don't have it. And wthin those institutions we can certainly create a process to make sure those without documentation can obtain documentation. It's not difficult.

I am not defending any states voter ID law or it's implementation. What I am saying is that we can certainly acheive this goal and I don't find it unreasonable to produce proof of who you are and where you live to vote. And I don't see why it needs to be an issue over time.

If they can find a way to provide IDs for people through NO cost of their own (including any administrative fees, missed work, etc.), then I'm totally fine with voter ID laws. Although you're still basically claiming someone has a right and then placing restrictions on said rights, as well as addressing a problem that doesn't exist using taxpayer money. Side question, if you're a fiscal conservative, and there are no documented cases of voter fraud, why spend money to fix something that ain't broke?

As far as not thinking they're unreasonable restrictions...they're not. To you. People using this argument often document that they have to show ID using a credit card (not really true anymore, but ok), buying alcohol, etc. Yes, however many people do not have a credit card or debit card. They go through their entire lives not needing identification. Hell, I went almost 2 years in college without needing an ID, and I used my debit card to buy beer every weekend.

Having an ID is not nearly as necessary as someone from our background might think, and since there's no law in the US that requires people to have IDs, I'd think you small government types would be all for leaving that the way it is. It's also not as easy to get as someone like us might believe.

So yeah, if you're planning on implementing a system wherein people get IDs for absolutely no cast to them, then yeah, I'm on board.

[Garcia Bronco]

Side question, if you're a fiscal conservative, and there are no documented cases of voter fraud, why spend money to fix something that ain't broke?

As far as not thinking they're unreasonable restrictions...they're not. To you. People using this argument often document that they have to show ID using a credit card (not really true anymore, but ok), buying alcohol, etc. Yes, however many people do not have a credit card or debit card. They go through their entire lives not needing identification. Hell, I went almost 2 years in college without needing an ID, and I used my debit card to buy beer every weekend.

Having an ID is not nearly as necessary as someone from our background might think, and since there's no law in the US that requires people to have IDs, I'd think you small government types would be all for leaving that the way it is. It's also not as easy to get as someone like us might believe.

So yeah, if you're planning on implementing a system wherein people get IDs for absolutely no cast to them, then yeah, I'm on board.

I would consider the cost a poll tax, which is Constitutionally illegal. But if the money were to come for a general pool of tax revenue that I feel like we have removed any one-to-one cost for a spot to vote. I do think that producing identification when you vote would increase the integrity of the process.

[Fedaykin]

I would consider the cost a poll tax, which is Constitutionally illegal. But if the money were to come for a general pool of tax revenue that I feel like we have removed any one-to-one cost for a spot to vote. I do think that producing identification when you vote would increase the integrity of the process.

I'm not against the idea of ID required, but I've yet to see any evidence that it would increase the integrity of the process. When the people fighting for this can't demonstrate any significant fraud occurring, there's a problem.

I'm much more worried about voter disenfranchisement, broken/compromised electronic voting machines, partisan gaming of election districts, etc.

[houghtam]

I'm not against the idea of ID required, but I've yet to see any evidence that it would increase the integrity of the process. When the people fighting for this can't demonstrate any significant fraud occurring, there's a problem.

I'm much more worried about voter disenfranchisement, broken/compromised electronic voting machines, partisan gaming of election districts, etc.

Right. Like I said, it sure seems like someone who claims he's for small government is really antsy to spend government time, money and effort on a feeling of integrity, when given the evidence, that's all it will be. A feeling.

[Garcia Bronco]

Right. Like I said, it sure seems like someone who claims he's for small government is really antsy to spend government time, money and effort on a feeling of integrity, when given the evidence, that's all it will be. A feeling.

Its actually not that difficult, nor expensive. Its mostly a procedural change. Then the GOP can't bitch about it anymore.

[Jetmeck]

That's one kind of voter fraud. What would be some other examples of voter fraud?

Gawd you types are thick............the short story is know one was bitching so it wasn't happening...............

[Garcia Bronco]

Gawd you types are thick............the short story is know one was b****ing so it wasn't happening...............

Ahh we've had people bitching about voter fraud since the 2000 election on both sides.

[Jetmeck]

Ahh we've had people b****ing about voter fraud since the 2000 election on both sides.

long lines in 04 in ohio
votes not counted in 00

but nobody has said a peep about in person voter fraud that these laws are supposed to fix...........

close elections in swing states with replublican legislature making these new laws...........it isn't a coincidence.

[houghtam]

long lines in 04 in ohio
votes not counted in 00

but nobody has said a peep about in person voter fraud that these laws are supposed to fix...........

close elections in swing states with replublican legislature making these new laws...........it isn't a coincidence.

Not true. The people who wrote the laws in PA even conceded that these laws won't prevent the extremely few, proven types of fraud that are going on, and that there are no actual cases of voter fraud ever having happened that this type of law could prevent.

But Garcia says its worth it for that little extra feeling of integrity we as a nation would get. Yaaaaaaay go America.

Personally I'd feel our elections would have more integrity if we could get more than a fraction of the population to vote, not if they have some draconian law that doesn't do or solve anything. But of course requiring ID doesn't make it easier for people to vote. By design.

[Rohirrim]

Does it occur to anybody that the GOP is only going rabid over this non-existent issue in the major swing states of Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida? Why is that, do you think? Why go to so much effort to disenfranchise voters in swing states? And what does that say about your party when their biggest effort is not to win votes, but to eliminate voters?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Looks like they're trying to steal Ohio again...

Ohio Elections Chief Suspends Democrats From County Board

After a Wednesday order that his office says bans weekend early voting hours, the Ohio Secretary of State, a Republican, responds to rebellion from one county's Democratic members. A confrontation as the election approaches.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/ohio-secretary-of-states-threatens-to-remove-democ

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/386939_517670238258492_30837271_n.jpg

[Rohirrim]

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