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View Full Version : Why do people hate Bill Belichick?


ClamChowdah
08-11-2012, 09:20 AM
People need to start respecting the greatest coach ever, the guy has 5 rings and 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years.

I think its jealousy, you?

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1130/1387472612_17fcecea1b.jpg

Gort
08-11-2012, 09:25 AM
http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/2/9/7/4/6/troll_spray.jpg

Taco John
08-11-2012, 09:25 AM
I can only speak for myself, but I hate him because his cheating has tarnished himself and the entire idea of being "the greatest coach ever." He might actually be that, but I'll never know because he runs an operation that cheats.

Abqbronco
08-11-2012, 09:33 AM
I can only speak for myself, but I hate him because his cheating has tarnished himself and the entire idea of being "the greatest coach ever." He might actually be that, but I'll never know because he runs an operation that cheats.

Plus he's a dick.

Bacchus
08-11-2012, 09:43 AM
How many rings does he have since he was caught cheating? Just curious? You do not get brownie points for losing Super Bowls your team was favored in. He is not as good a coach as Coughlin obviously.

Heyneck
08-11-2012, 09:53 AM
I think he is a great coach... but he is also a great cheater...

rbackfactory80
08-11-2012, 10:14 AM
lmagine this. You are attracted to women, Iike you are now (emotionally and sexually), but they do not exist. They existed a long time ago, and no one knows what they looked like (They have a pretty good idea from the fossils, however), but they do not exist anymore. That means, not only do you know there will never be any possibility of you having sex with one, but there's not even a possibility of you ever seeing one in real life. Everyone else, however, except for a very few, are not attracted to women, they are attracted to something else entirely. So in other words, you will never find any porn anywhere on the internet, only non-sexual pictures of women. Everyone you have told about your attraction to women think it's disgusting. To relieve yourself, you get off on the non-sexual pictures of women, knowing it will never get any better.

Garcia Bronco
08-11-2012, 10:18 AM
Bernie Kosar and cheating

Gort
08-11-2012, 10:19 AM
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/food-porn-12.jpg

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/food-porn-24.jpg

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/food-porn-26.jpg

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/food-porn-32.jpg

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/food-porn-51.jpg

pricejj
08-11-2012, 10:22 AM
Coughlin is a much better person, coach, and talent evaluator (especially on Defense, which Belicheat is supposedly known for). Belicheat continually fleeces teams to get multiple high draft picks every year, and still can't field a viable Defense even with all the FA talent that is attracted to NE because of Brady. Now Belicheat is trying to copy Coughlin's 4-3 Defense.

Here are Coughlin's All-Pro Defensive line picks over the past 10 years:

1. Marcus Stroud
2. John Henderson
3. Justin Tuck
4. Osi Umenyiora
5. Jason Pierre Paul

broncosteven
08-11-2012, 10:42 AM
I hate him because he deflowered Bonnie Bernstein, her "2 dicks...WOW!" quote means nothing to me anymore.

That and he is a cheater who has no honor and will hang 59 on teams in the snow when they have absolutely no chance at scoring yet up by 50 he continues to go for 2.

Plus he hired mCd, talk about the 2 biggest Aholes on the planet. No soul between the 2 of them.

DBroncos4life
08-11-2012, 10:44 AM
I can only speak for myself, but I hate him because his cheating has tarnished himself and the entire idea of being "the greatest coach ever." He might actually be that, but I'll never know because he runs an operation that cheats.

And some coke head wants his name on the SB trophy!

Ironlung
08-11-2012, 10:45 AM
How many rings does he have since he was caught cheating?

This. Turns out it's not as easy to win those big games without having the other teams walk thru (exact same plays the other team plans on running) on tape to study.

Atleast you admitted the fact that your division is garbage and plays a huge role in the Cheatriots going to the playoffs every year.

Dr. Broncenstein
08-11-2012, 10:53 AM
http://www.nflpassers.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/joshmcdaniels4.jpg

That's why.

Punisher
08-11-2012, 10:57 AM
http://colorado-steakhouse.com/images/applebees4.jpg

*WARHORSE*
08-11-2012, 11:07 AM
People need to start respecting the greatest coach ever, the guy has 5 rings and 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years.

I think its jealousy, you?

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1130/1387472612_17fcecea1b.jpg

I think its cause his mother was an bald carrion vulture.

Pretty sure thats where it comes from.

Carry on.:curtsey:

ozomulsion
08-11-2012, 11:37 AM
I respect him to a degree. Wes Welker makes that catch, and the whole SB argument is probably out the door. A healthy Gronk and that argument is out the door. There's no problem with someone hating the guy, but i'd like to see some better reasons. McD was such a ****ty coach for us, I don't see why people would hate him because of that hiring.

Anyhow, the hatred this board had for Peyton Manning when he was on the Colts was 10 times that of BB.

Just playing devils advocate.

vancejohnson82
08-11-2012, 12:02 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I hate him because his cheating has tarnished himself and the entire idea of being "the greatest coach ever." He might actually be that, but I'll never know because he runs an operation that cheats.

for me, its the same kind of situation as Barry Bonds....he was the best BUT...

and you wonder if they even needed to cheat

Bmore Manning
08-11-2012, 12:08 PM
Because his cheating teams robbed Peyton of multiple SB appearances.

mhgaffney
08-11-2012, 12:11 PM
Not all of us are haters, Clam.

Bill B is a terrific coach. The local crowd hates him because of his success.

So, you are correct. It's jealousy.

MHG

DarkHorse30
08-11-2012, 12:20 PM
Bill is nothing without Tom Brady. His defenses are average at best......and he is a lying cheater.

The only thing I like about Belichek is that he defied Parcells. That's about it. He seems like a nice guy.....but is a lying cheater, who is nothing without Tom Brady.

Fedaykin
08-11-2012, 12:20 PM
People need to start respecting the greatest coach ever, the guy has 5 rings and 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years.

I think its jealousy, you?

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1130/1387472612_17fcecea1b.jpg

18-1

Durango
08-11-2012, 01:17 PM
He's the living embodiment of the iconic Vince Lombardi utterance: "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing".

Win at any cost, and pray you don't get caught (too often)

ClamChowdah
08-11-2012, 02:20 PM
Bill is nothing without Tom Brady. His defenses are average at best......and he is a lying cheater.

The only thing I like about Belichek is that he defied Parcells. That's about it. He seems like a nice guy.....but is a lying cheater, who is nothing without Tom Brady.

He has defensive gameplans in the hall of fame, Belichick has just moved with the times and knows nobody can play shutdown defense and offenses and quarterbacks win now.

Go read about BB's Giants defenses when he was the defensive coordinator and how good the early 2000's Patriots defense were, it was the Patriots defense that forced the illegal contact rules to be changed that we now have Brady taking advantage of today.

Beantown Bronco
08-11-2012, 02:30 PM
..................

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/K5d5jxJ5vbM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

baja
08-11-2012, 03:19 PM
I don't hate Bill Belichick

I think he is a talented coach. A bit of an ass but a successful coach.

The filming thing sucks but I doubt it made much difference in the won - loss column.

Bronx33
08-11-2012, 03:30 PM
Hes a douche bag plain and simple.

hambone13
08-11-2012, 03:48 PM
He has defensive gameplans in the hall of fame, Belichick has just moved with the times and knows nobody can play shutdown defense and offenses and quarterbacks win now.

Go read about BB's Giants defenses when he was the defensive coordinator and how good the early 2000's Patriots defense were, it was the Patriots defense that forced the illegal contact rules to be changed that we now have Brady taking advantage of today.

DarkHorse doesn't know what he's talking about. BB's a defensive stud and a great coach over all. He's just a cheater and an a-hole in general to the public. It doesn't hurt that there's some back-end jealousy due to the team's success but I believe that to be as much Tom Brady as BB and I think most would agree. The stats don't lie on that one.

hambone13
08-11-2012, 03:52 PM
I don't hate Bill Belichick

I think he is a talented coach. A bit of an ass but a successful coach.

The filming thing sucks but I doubt it made much difference in the won - loss column.

How can you say that? His own defensive coordinator busted him because he knew it made a difference. An extra win or two a year is the difference for many reasons.

baja
08-11-2012, 04:06 PM
How can you say that? His own defensive coordinator busted him because he knew it made a difference. An extra win or two a year is the difference for many reasons.


If this were true and provable as you imply I believe the NFL would have to have done more that a fine and draft pick.

Look what they did to the DC of NO, He is banned for life for the bounty hunting.

You really think if there was hard evidence that 2 or so games per season were won by cheating that Belichick would have been out on his ear, never to coach again.

What was taped was already available to the public according to many posters here. I don't like him much either but I will give him his due. If coaches are judged by wins than he has to be considered a great coach.

hambone13
08-11-2012, 04:10 PM
If this were true and provable as you imply I believe the NFL would have to have done more that a fine and draft pick.

Look what they did to the DC of NO, He is banned for life for the bounty hunting.

You really think if there was hard evidence that 2 or so games per season were won by cheating that Belichick would have been out on his ear, never to coach again.

What was taped was already available to the public according to many posters here. I don't like him much either but I will give him his due. If coaches are judged by wins than he has to be considered a great coach.

They couldn't prove it until his former DC in NY gave the intel to catch them with the tape and employee. If they had all the tape, I'm sure it would have been steeper. That is where I feel my assumption is justified.

baja
08-11-2012, 04:22 PM
They couldn't prove it until his former DC in NY gave the intel to catch them with the tape and employee. If they had all the tape, I'm sure it would have been steeper. That is where I feel my assumption is justified.


I honestly did not follow the details of the story so there is likely much I do not know. I just seems to me that if what was done did change the outcome of games heads would have rolled. No way the NFL will allow that kind of cloud hang over their Golden Goose. They would have crucified Belichick.

Kaylore
08-11-2012, 04:26 PM
I honestly don't hate Bill Belichick. I kind of hate Tom Brady because has the personality of a piece of drywall and is effectively Gizelle's lesbian lover.

http://sportsofboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/052211_tombeingridiculous.jpg

Honestly, how can any red-blooded new englander defend this stuff?


I do hate the Patriots because their fans are insufferable. But do I hate Bill Belichick? ....I'm gonna say no. But the way he runs things, the cheating, and the closed-off, gestapo style secrecy to their organization is not something I enjoy. I hated it when McDaniels ran it. It appears to be just as arrogant and divisive in KC - so while I don't hate HIM I would not want him or any of his style coaches on my team.

DENVERDUI55
08-11-2012, 04:34 PM
BB is just like any coach. He is great with great players. You can give the best coach in the world the Jacksonville Jags or Browns and they will be awful. He got lucky on Brady when the team was pretty solid overall and got 3 rings with cheating. The rest of the time he has missed on pick after pick, signed high dollar FA left and right and has no rings. His gameplanning is top notch, GM not so much.

baja
08-11-2012, 04:44 PM
BB is just like any coach. He is great with great players. You can give the best coach in the world the Jacksonville Jags or Browns and they will be awful. He got lucky on Brady when the team was pretty solid overall and got 3 rings with cheating. The rest of the time he has missed on pick after pick, signed high dollar FA left and right and has no rings. His gameplanning is top notch, GM not so much.


Take away one ring and the cheating, substitute TD for Brady and you got Shanny.

pricejj
08-11-2012, 04:49 PM
I honestly did not follow the details of the story so there is likely much I do not know. I just seems to me that if what was done did change the outcome of games heads would have rolled. No way the NFL will allow that kind of cloud hang over their Golden Goose. They would have crucified Belichick.

1. Belicheat taped opponents practices, records their game plans, and records their Offensive calls during games.

2. Bruschi had a wireless headset in his helmet before it was legal to do so. Enabling the Defensive Coordinator to radio into Bruschi the Offensive play before the play was ran.

3. Referees have been protecting Brady for the past decade, calling unecessary roughness anytime he is touched (way before the current QB rules were put in place)...including the "tuck rule".

4. Tell me how that isn't a competitive advantage. Include the fact that the Patriots play in the weakest division in the NFL (by far), giving the Patriots homefield advantage in the playoffs almost every year. Still they haven't won a SB in 8 years.


I hate Belicheat and McDaniels. Elway has upgraded the roster to the point where we can hopefully kick the crap out of the Patriots this year, only 2 years after McDaniels completely dismantled the organization.

broncogary
08-11-2012, 04:50 PM
He has defensive gameplans in the hall of fame, Belichick has just moved with the times and knows nobody can play shutdown defense and offenses and quarterbacks win now.

Go read about BB's Giants defenses when he was the defensive coordinator and how good the early 2000's Patriots defense were, it was the Patriots defense that forced the illegal contact rules to be changed that we now have Brady taking advantage of today.

That's stupid. They didn't change the rules because of the Patriots, the referrees just didn't call the Patriots on the rule that day.

hambone13
08-11-2012, 04:52 PM
I honestly did not follow the details of the story so there is likely much I do not know. I just seems to me that if what was done did change the outcome of games heads would have rolled. No way the NFL will allow that kind of cloud hang over their Golden Goose. They would have crucified Belichick.

Heads rolled once BB's video specialist was caught by intel from Eric Mangini (former DC in NE) in the act. That was nearly the only evidence they had to work with at the time. Any other footage could have come from any where. The fact that he was caught in the act is what made it compelling and obvious.

There were also at least a couple if not several other complaints lodged against BB for doing the same thing previously but no evidence was available.

If you didn't follow it in detail, perhaps making bold statements about it isn't wise.

baja
08-11-2012, 05:04 PM
Heads rolled once BB's video specialist was caught by intel from Eric Mangini (former DC in NE) in the act. That was the nearly the only evidence they had to work with at the time. Any other footage could have come from any where. The fact that he was caught in the act is what made it compelling and obvious. If you didn't follow it in detail, perhaps making bold statements about it isn't wise.

I'm not making any bold statements.

I am making a logical extrapolation. If 'A' happens and 'B' is what follows and it is likely the punishment would be tailored to fit the crime due to what is a stake than it is logical there was not the advantage many fans chose to perceive.


The bottom line is no one will ever know if games were won because of this and it ain't going to be rehashed so lets go kick their asses on our way to the super bowl.

ozomulsion
08-11-2012, 05:28 PM
BB is just like any coach. He is great with great players. You can give the best coach in the world the Jacksonville Jags or Browns and they will be awful. He got lucky on Brady when the team was pretty solid overall and got 3 rings with cheating. The rest of the time he has missed on pick after pick, signed high dollar FA left and right and has no rings. His gameplanning is top notch, GM not so much.

Terrible post all around, and what the heck are you talking about in the bolded part? lololol@that

rmsanger
08-11-2012, 05:30 PM
http://bradylovesfunnelcake.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/billb.jpg

gunns
08-11-2012, 05:34 PM
Not all of us are haters, Clam.

Bill B is a terrific coach. The local crowd hates him because of his success.

So, you are correct. It's jealousy.

MHG

Nothing I hate more than someone who attempts to talk for others.

I don't hate Belichick, he's too insignificant to waste that much emotion on. I think cheating is right up there as a reason to dislike him as it cheapens him and has nothing to do with jealousy. I also dislike the guy for having an affair (again he cheapens himself) and for his walk off the field without seeking out Coughlin for a handshake. Maybe he was jealous. The Broncos have the upside in beating the Patriots since Bill came on.

And I don't remember ever disliking Manning. Any success he had over the Broncos was as much the Broncos fault as his abilities.

HAT
08-11-2012, 05:53 PM
Take away one ring and the cheating, substitute TD for Brady and you got Shanny.

This is your best post on The Mane....Ever.

DENVERDUI55
08-11-2012, 05:54 PM
Terrible post all around, and what the heck are you talking about in the bolded part? lololol@that

If you havent seen all the FA's they have signed in past few years I'm not going to explain it to you. Trades too except NE seems to get a bit of a discount compared to other teams. Adalius Thomas, Moss, Haynesworth, Andre Carter, Stallworth 2x, Fred Taylor, etc. Their track record with drafting isn't great either. Brady has saved them only furthering the argument torwards a franchise QB.

DBroncos4life
08-11-2012, 06:15 PM
If you havent seen all the FA's they have signed in past few years I'm not going to explain it to you. Trades too except NE seems to get a bit of a discount compared to other teams. Adalius Thomas, Moss, Haynesworth, Andre Carter, Stallworth 2x, Fred Taylor, etc. Their track record with drafting isn't great either. Brady has saved them only furthering the argument torwards a franchise QB.

They didn't come in under huge deals though which is what you claimed.

Moss was traded for a 4th rounder
Haynesworth was traded for a 5th rounder
Carter was a pretty good deal, 1.75 mill and went as high as 2.75 if incentives were met. 10.5 sacks so I think he met those
Adalius Thomas 5 years 35 million dollar contract
Fred Taylor was a 2 year 5 million dollar contract, bad deal

BB is making bad moves but, they are not costing lots of money.

hambone13
08-11-2012, 06:45 PM
I'm not making any bold statements.

I am making a logical extrapolation. If 'A' happens and 'B' is what follows and it is likely the punishment would be tailored to fit the crime due to what is a stake than it is logical there was not the advantage many fans chose to perceive.


The bottom line is no one will ever know if games were won because of this and it ain't going to be rehashed so lets go kick their asses on our way to the super bowl.

A to B. If that was the first time he was caught, common sense says, he's likely been doing it for some time. Especially considering it was his DC that gave him up and there were previous allegations. Logic says, it's likely it wasn't his "first time". Who knows the details on how many times it's happened but as another OM poster said, "it's not that Barry Bonds isn't great, he's just that much more questionable."

The only reason BB is still coaching in the NFL is because he's a staple winner with HOF potential. The league isn't going to go down that path unless it's unquestionable. You seem to forget that the commissioner of the NFL works for the owners, not the fans and certainly not for "truth and justice".

Bmore Manning
08-11-2012, 06:56 PM
I don't hate Bill Belichick

I think he is a talented coach. A bit of an ass but a successful coach.

The filming thing sucks but I doubt it made much difference in the won - loss column.

That cost Peyton multiple Super Bowl appearances earlier in his career.

DENVERDUI55
08-11-2012, 07:03 PM
They didn't come in under huge deals though which is what you claimed.

Moss was traded for a 4th rounder
Haynesworth was traded for a 5th rounder
Carter was a pretty good deal, 1.75 mill and went as high as 2.75 if incentives were met. 10.5 sacks so I think he met those
Adalius Thomas 5 years 35 million dollar contract
Fred Taylor was a 2 year 5 million dollar contract, bad deal

BB is making bad moves but, they are not costing lots of money.

Big money was wrong term but like I said he brings in a ton of guys and doesn't draft that well. There are a hell of a lot more guys too those were off the top of my head. They had to sign 20 just this year. He is the best gameplanner around though.

Jekyll15Hyde
08-11-2012, 07:06 PM
I swear he sent Mc***stick here to implode the org. And it worked.

DBroncos4life
08-11-2012, 07:11 PM
Big money was wrong term but like I said he brings in a ton of guys and doesn't draft that well. There are a hell of a lot more guys too those were off the top of my head. They had to sign 20 just this year. He is the best gameplanner around though.

I think this will be a bad year for the Pats outside of the AFC East anyways. They did nothing to help the D, though I think Carter will be back and that O is going to struggle to run the ball. You can already tell that Solder isn't going to be the LT that they need to protect Brady and because they can't run the ball they will struggle to keep Brady up right.

lonestar
08-11-2012, 07:21 PM
People need to start respecting the greatest coach ever, the guy has 5 rings and 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years.

I think its jealousy, you?

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1130/1387472612_17fcecea1b.jpg

for loads of "fans" on opposing boards I think a YES is a big answer there..

in Broncos country in particular..

IMO most are pissed that we folded like a cheap tent in a stiff breeze after John retired.


Who stepped up to take the title but the NE Pats.. they did it with great drafting and player acquisitions and then of course some damned good coaching..

Those that thought Tanahan walked on water could nto stand seeing our dominant team fold up so quick and another team step in..

IN NE case they had built most of their team with solid draft choices since IIRC Craft took over..

Players that you build your teams foundation on..

Not like in DEN once most of those players that Tanahan had on the team when he walked in and those few tired old vets he managed to scourge up in the infancy of the FA
movement left he had nothing left as his drafts sucked..

At first I was one of them tought mickey was a God, but then started to realize that it was his own doing that cause our downfall..

Firing competent DC's because they wanted talent also. Then hanging onto those that sucked up to him that were incompetent.

Having a laughing-stock of a GM that rubber stamped his ideas on personnel..

I know that I will be blasted but many still think the clown was the greatest thing since sliced bread..

But I know what happened. some day they will get it..

As for BB hell of a coach that gets more out of his players than most..

Did he cheat? probably, but I suspect he was the only one that got caught..

lonestar
08-11-2012, 07:22 PM
People need to start respecting the greatest coach ever, the guy has 5 rings and 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years.

I think its jealousy, you?

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1130/1387472612_17fcecea1b.jpg

for loads of "fans" on opposing boards I think a YES is a big answer there..

in Broncos country in particular..

IMO most are pissed that we folded like a cheap tent in a stiff breeze after John retired.


Who stepped up to take the title but the NE Pats.. they did it with great drafting and player acquisitions and then of course some damned good coaching..

Those that thought Tanahan walked on water could nto stand seeing our dominant team fold up so quick and another team step in..

IN NE case they had built most of their team with solid draft choices since IIRC Craft took over..

Players that you build your teams foundation on..

Not like in DEN once most of those players that Tanahan had on the team when he walked in and those few tired old vets he managed to scourge up in the infancy of the FA
movement left he had nothing left as his drafts sucked..

At first I was one of them tought mickey was a God, but then started to realize that it was his own doing that cause our downfall..

Firing competent DC's because they wanted talent also. Then hanging onto those that sucked up to him that were incompetent.

Having a laughing-stock of a GM that rubber stamped his ideas on personnel..

I know that I will be blasted but many still think the clown was the greatest thing since sliced bread..

But I know what happened. some day they will get it..

As for BB hell of a coach that gets more out of his players than most..

Did he cheat? probably, but I suspect he was the only one that got caught..

baja
08-11-2012, 07:27 PM
That cost Peyton multiple Super Bowl appearances earlier in his career.

I'm late to the party on spygate but I doubt there is anyway to really know that what you claim is true.

Do you really think if the NFL believed that were true their only sanction would be a #1 pick and some cash?

lonestar
08-11-2012, 07:34 PM
I can only speak for myself, but I hate him because his cheating has tarnished himself and the entire idea of being "the greatest coach ever." He might actually be that, but I'll never know because he runs an operation that cheats.


Tanahan got caught a few times with his hands in the till also..

I doubt there is a winning program out there that does not push the limits of the rules to the extreme.. Most do not get caught.. some do..

ClamChowdah
08-11-2012, 07:36 PM
If you havent seen all the FA's they have signed in past few years I'm not going to explain it to you. Trades too except NE seems to get a bit of a discount compared to other teams. Adalius Thomas, Moss, Haynesworth, Andre Carter, Stallworth 2x, Fred Taylor, etc. Their track record with drafting isn't great either. Brady has saved them only furthering the argument torwards a franchise QB.

Thats a myth Hilarious!

The Patriots have drafted more all pros than any other team between 2002-2011, there has been a few bad drafts but the 2010 draft is one of the best drafts by any team for years.

We got McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Spikes, Cunningham, Mesko and Deaderick from the same draft they are all still on the team and contributing that is almost unheard of.

All Pros by Team 2002-2011 (http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2012/04/new_england_patriots_best_clev.html)

lonestar
08-11-2012, 07:40 PM
Because his cheating teams robbed Peyton of multiple SB appearances.

YO moron it was the lack of defenses that cost Peyton chances..

It WAS PEYTON that was costing Y'all 20% + of your salary cap each year..

If they had an extra $10 mil or so to spend on D perhaps you would have won more title chances.. but some one thought all it took was out scoring the the other team instead of playing some defense from time to time..

ROFL! some people's kids..

maher_tyler
08-11-2012, 07:46 PM
I'm late to the party on spygate but I doubt there is anyway to really know that what you claim is true.

Do you really think if the NFL believed that were true their only sanction would be a #1 pick and some cash?

I could totally see the league not doing as much because it is the Pats...the same Pats that have a deal with CBS. Can't make both of them look bad.

I didn't start disliking BB/Pats until their 18-1 season. Beating up on teams like the Dolphins and other crappy teams. Running up the score, going for it on 4th down and going for 2 etc. Then theres the little pooch punt by Brady on 3rd down in the playoff game...its **** like that that makes me not like them. And obviously the whole spy gate thing.

There isn't anything to like about those sore losers. Losing to the Giants twice in the SB was awesome!

baja
08-11-2012, 07:55 PM
I could totally see the league not doing as much because it is the Pats...the same Pats that have a deal with CBS. Can't make both of them look bad.

I didn't start disliking BB/Pats until their 18-1 season. Beating up on teams like the Dolphins and other crappy teams. Running up the score, going for it on 4th down and going for 2 etc. Then theres the little pooch punt by Brady on 3rd down in the playoff game...its **** like that that makes me not like them. And obviously the whole spy gate thing.

There isn't anything to like about those sore losers. Losing to the Giants twice in the SB was awesome!

Ya I don't like their ways either.

The reason why the NFL could not sweep this under the rug is because of the betting.

Word gets out to book makers that there are unknown anomalies (cheating) affecting the outcome of the game and it's all over.

lonestar
08-11-2012, 07:58 PM
Elway has upgraded the roster to the point where we can hopefully kick the crap out of the Patriots this year, only 2 years after McDaniels completely dismantled the organization.

I just can;t let this stand..

this team was a schell of its old self when Tanahan was fired.

the 08 Defense had 8 of 11 starters either out of football in 09 or not starting for any other team..

Our red zone run blocking was the joke of the NFL and while we had the#2 offense during the previous year. we were 19th in scoring..

there was a lot to dismantle..

a hot-headed QB that would probably never win another game against SAN because of the ass kicking they put on him in the last game they played..

a Moron WR that has been the locker room cancer of at least two teams, someone who was one bitch slap away from doing time and or a very long suspension.

a TE that has rarely been heard of since cutlet left..

so what did he really dismantle the OL remained in tact until Hamilton was proven to be the weak link I thought he was in pass protect. Got rid of an old vet OC that was not in the long-term plans of rebuilding the OL that other than Kuper and Clady were not worth a crap for pass protection..


SO what did he do that was so wrong?

Drafted a couple of OL guys that have started every game since they came into the league, even though the OL coaching has sucked since Gibbs left..

DId he make some poor co=hoices on draft day yep but lets not even start to compare them with that of Tanahan..

John has seen the issues that have been left since almost when he retired and has started to adress them.. Lets hope he has ten times the success that Tanahan and Josh did..

lonestar
08-11-2012, 08:23 PM
Thats a myth Hilarious!

The Patriots have drafted more all pros than any other team between 2002-2011, there has been a few bad drafts but the 2010 draft is one of the best drafts by any team for years.

We got McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Spikes, Cunningham, Mesko and Deaderick from the same draft they are all still on the team and contributing that is almost unheard of.

All Pros by Team 2002-2011 (http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2012/04/new_england_patriots_best_clev.html)


Great find..

add to those with these players drafted before that list.. how many of these were all pros at least once if not multiple time..

2001 - New England Patriots
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 6 Richard Seymour DT Georgia
2 48 Matt Light T Purdue
1999 - New England Patriots
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 17 Damien Woody C Boston College
1 28 Andy Katzenmoyer MLB Ohio State
2 46 Kevin Faulk RB Louisiana State
1998 - New England Patriots
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 18 Robert Edwards RB Georgia
1 22 Tebucky Jones DB Syracuse
1997 - New England Patriot
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 29 Chris Canty DB Kansas State
1996 - New England Patriots
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 7 Terry Glenn WR Ohio State
2 36 Lawyer Milloy SS Washington
3 86 Tedy Bruschi LB Arizona
1995 - New England Patriots
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 23 Ty Law CB Michigan
2 57 Ted Johnson ILB Colorado
3 74 Curtis Martin RB Pittsburgh

1994 - New England Patriots
RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
1 4 Willie McGinest OLB USC

A Couple or three of those guys will be HOF..

Peoples Champ
08-11-2012, 08:28 PM
once a cheater always a cheater

lonestar
08-11-2012, 08:31 PM
Tanahan once a cheater always a cheater


fixed that for you..

baja
08-11-2012, 08:33 PM
fixed that for you..

when did Shanahan ever cheat?

errand
08-11-2012, 08:34 PM
People need to start respecting the greatest coach ever, the guy has 5 rings and 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years.

I think its jealousy, you?

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1130/1387472612_17fcecea1b.jpg

Pete Rose is baseball's all-time hits leader....great player, but he'll always be known as the guy who bet on baseball and that stigma will always follow him.

OJ Simpson was a great NFL RB...ran for over 2,000 yards in 14 game season no less...but he'll always be known as the guy who got away with murder.

Bill Belichick has 5 SB rings, and 5 AFC titles as HC...however he'll always be known as the guy that cheated when he spied on an opposing team.


Maybe that's why?

lonestar
08-11-2012, 08:34 PM
Pete Rose is baseball's all-time hits leader....great player, but he'll always be known as the guy who bet on baseball and that stigma will always follow him.

OJ Simpson was a great NFL RB...ran for over 2,000 yards in 14 game season no less...but he'll always be known as the guy who got away with murder.

Bill Belichick has 5 SB rings, and 5 AFC titles as HC...however he'll always be known as the guy that cheated when he spied on an opposing team.


Maybe that's why?

good points..

:thumbs:

errand
08-11-2012, 08:48 PM
but some one thought all it took was out scoring the the other team



you know teams that outscore their opponents have won 100% of those games

errand
08-11-2012, 08:51 PM
when did Shanahan ever cheat?


If memory serves me right, Mike famous for manipulating the injury list....there was also the whole cut blocking thing...and Broncos were accused after winning back to back titles of some shady salary cap shennanigans

baja
08-11-2012, 08:58 PM
If memory serves me right, Mike famous for manipulating the injury list....there was also the whole cut blocking thing...and Broncos were accused after winning back to back titles of some shady salary cap shennanigans

every team manipulates the injury list. It's a running joke among all us fans

most teams cut block not to mention it is legal

that was between Bowlen and Elway. The only reason we lost a 3rd rd pic was because of all the wining al davis did.

None of your reasons warrant calling Shanny a cheat.

ClamChowdah
08-11-2012, 09:02 PM
every team manipulates the injury list. It's a running joke among all us fans

most teams cut block not to mention it is legal

that was between Bowlen and Elway. The only reason we lost a 3rd rd pic was because of all the wining al davis did.

None of your reasons warrant calling Shanny a cheat.

Cheating the cap is as bad as cheating gets, cheater.

baja
08-11-2012, 09:11 PM
Cheating the cap is as bad as cheating gets, cheater.

Yes there were some cap irregularities but that was not on Shanahan like the poster claimed.

maher_tyler
08-11-2012, 09:13 PM
I forgot to mention their fans...Boston fans are about obnoxious as it gets...their city wins a few championships and their heads explode...

pricejj
08-11-2012, 09:15 PM
I just can;t let this stand..

this team was a schell of its old self when Tanahan was fired.

That's what happens when you try to learn Defense on the job like Shanahan did, all he needed was a really good Defensive Coordinator (like Nolan, or Del Rio), and a good GM (like Elway). McDaniels drove the Broncos to their worst record in history (4-12) and the 2nd overall pick in the draft.


the 08 Defense had 8 of 11 starters either out of football in 09 or not starting for any other team..

Shanahan Off./Def. starters still on the Broncos: 5 (Bailey, Williams, Kuper, Clady, Dumervil)

Shanahan Off./Def. players starting on other teams: 5 (Kern, Cutler, Marshall, Wiegmann (ret.), Pears)

McDaniels Off./Def. starters still on the Broncos: 6 (Decker, Thomas, Beadles, Walton, Hunter, Mays)

McDaniels Off./Def. players starting on other teams: 0


Our red zone run blocking was the joke of the NFL and while we had the#2 offense during the previous year. we were 19th in scoring..

McDaniels scoring Offenses, and red-zone Offenses were far worse.


SO what did he do that was so wrong?

Out of McDaniels 5 first round draft picks (in 2 years), 4 do not start, or are no longer on the team.

None of McDaniels 10 draft picks in 2009 are starters.


Drafted a couple of OL guys that have started every game since they came into the league, even though the OL coaching has sucked since Gibbs left..

According to PFF, Walton is the worst starting Center in the NFL, and Beadles is the 4th worst starting Guard in the NFL. This is after a year of being coached by Dave Magazu, one of the best OL coaches in the NFL, and two full years of starting. Prompting the Broncos to draft another Center (Blake), and speculation of replacing Beadles in the starting line-up.

If it was up to McDaniels, Kyle Orton would still be the starter.

errand
08-11-2012, 09:30 PM
every team manipulates the injury list. It's a running joke among all us fans

most teams cut block not to mention it is legal

that was between Bowlen and Elway. The only reason we lost a 3rd rd pic was because of all the wining al davis did.

None of your reasons warrant calling Shanny a cheat.

I never called him a cheat...just gave you some food for thought as to why others might call him one

baja
08-11-2012, 09:38 PM
I never called him a cheat...just gave you some food for thought as to why others might call him one

Never said you did.


I said your examples were not very good ones.

maher_tyler
08-11-2012, 09:38 PM
I also forgot to mention that before the season had even ended, the Pats some how were able to hire McD onto the team in the middle of the playoffs. How is that even possible??

Bronco Rob
08-11-2012, 09:40 PM
You do realize that SpamChowdah is Boob's your Information Minister aka the chefs version of Muhammed Saeed.


http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa444/Paxil_Rose/bob.jpg


A fish rots from the head down, when the organization got caught cheating the teams owner paid the half a million dollar fine to reinstate the head coach. As opposed to disciplining the perpetrator that forever tarnished the franchises legacy.




;)

errand
08-11-2012, 09:52 PM
Yes there were some cap irregularities but that was not on Shanahan like the poster claimed.

Again...i never claimed anything, nor did I call Mike a cheat...I said Broncos were "accused" of salary cap shenanigans

errand
08-11-2012, 09:53 PM
None of your reasons warrant calling Shanny a cheat.


Ok...then who was this aimed at?

baja
08-11-2012, 10:02 PM
Ok...then who was this aimed at?


Someone called Shanny a cheat.


You gave reasons why that might be true


I shot down your reasons

but I never accused you of calling Shanny a cheat.

Read the post again, you have misinterpreted it.

lonestar
08-12-2012, 12:07 AM
you know teams that outscore their opponents have won 100% of those games

wow perceptive aren't you the problem was they were outscored because their D could not shut anyone down..

so scoring a lot is good IF your out scoring everyone.. Which they did not..

lonestar
08-12-2012, 12:09 AM
every team manipulates the injury list. It's a running joke among all us fans

most teams cut block not to mention it is legal

that was between Bowlen and Elway. The only reason we lost a 3rd rd pic was because of all the wining al davis did.

None of your reasons warrant calling Shanny a cheat.

then there was that quarter million dollar fine..

mikey cheated plain and simple..

God only knows what else he cheated at but was not caught..

lonestar
08-12-2012, 12:10 AM
every team manipulates the injury list. It's a running joke among all us fans

most teams cut block not to mention it is legal

that was between Bowlen and Elway. The only reason we lost a 3rd rd pic was because of all the wining al davis did.

None of your reasons warrant calling Shanny a cheat.

then there was that quarter million dollar fine..

mikey cheated plain and simple..

God only knows what else he cheated at but was not caught..

lonestar
08-12-2012, 12:36 AM
That's what happens when you try to learn Defense on the job like Shanahan did, all he needed was a really good Defensive Coordinator (like Nolan, or Del Rio), and a good GM (like Elway). McDaniels drove the Broncos to their worst record in history (4-12) and the 2nd overall pick in the draft.

Shanahan Off./Def. starters still on the Broncos: 5 (Bailey, Williams, Kuper, Clady, Dumervil)

Shanahan Off./Def. players starting on other teams: 5 (Kern, Cutler, Marshall, Wiegmann (ret.), Pears)

McDaniels Off./Def. starters still on the Broncos: 6 (Decker, Thomas, Beadles, Walton, Hunter, Mays)

McDaniels Off./Def. players starting on other teams: 0

McDaniels scoring Offenses, and red-zone Offenses were far worse.

Out of McDaniels 5 first round draft picks (in 2 years), 4 do not start, or are no longer on the team.

None of McDaniels 10 draft picks in 2009 are starters.



According to PFF, Walton is the worst starting Center in the NFL, and Beadles is the 4th worst starting Guard in the NFL. This is after a year of being coached by Dave Magazu, one of the best OL coaches in the NFL, and two full years of starting. Prompting the Broncos to draft another Center (Blake), and speculation of replacing Beadles in the starting line-up.

If it was up to McDaniels, Kyle Orton would still be the starter.

as I said 8 of the 11 starters on defense were not playing in the NFL or starters on any other team,
So we had to rebuild that part of the team from the ground up..
ON O not much there worth keeping either although they did try to make BM, and TS into team players..


Beadles and Walton have not had coaching worth a crap since they got into the NFL.. Last year Mazu did come on board but then we also had a QB change mid year. Since neither of them have missed a games since turning pro I suspect the John has confidence in them or would have used a top pick to replace one or more of them..

yet neither of them have NOT started a game since being drafted..since we have NO IDEA what the starting lineups are yet.. just perhaps Ayers will be the starter come the season opener..

AS for Orton Pretty sure he would have been starting TEBOW this year..

FWIW do you think John would have kept cutlet, BM and TS for the team last year had they still been there?

Knowing that cutlet was a punching bag for Rivers and the bolts..

Sorry but cutlet and company had to go, there would not have been enough money to resign all of them Doom, Kuper and clady..

Any way to tired to worry about it now it is all moot since Josh did teh right thing cleaning all of mikeys FUBARS out..

TomServo
08-12-2012, 01:33 AM
there is a reason a hard a ss like coughlin beat a "genius" like belichek. belichek couldnt cheat. what a coincidence the pats havent won the big one since they got caught cheating. harder to win the SB when you cant tape the other teams practices.

McDman
08-12-2012, 01:37 AM
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/food-porn-12.jpg

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/food-porn-24.jpg

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/food-porn-26.jpg

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/food-porn-32.jpg

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/food-porn-51.jpg

That looks so got damn good.

TomServo
08-12-2012, 01:56 AM
and as a bronco fan and as much as i hate the raiders, they got screwed. "tuck rule" my butt

pricejj
08-12-2012, 02:44 AM
FWIW do you think John would have kept cutlet, BM and TS for the team last year had they still been there?

Knowing that cutlet was a punching bag for Rivers and the bolts..

Sorry but cutlet and company had to go, there would not have been enough money to resign all of them Doom, Kuper and clady..


Cutler is a very interesting dilemma. No, I don't believe Elway would have gotten rid of Cutler. Therefore, we never would have gotten Manning. I guess everything depends on if you believe Cutler could have gotten us to a SB or not.

I would say no...

Manning has attracted Caldwell, Tamme, Dreessen, Porter, Adams, Florence, Brooking, and Leonhard. Hopefully we'll get more help next year in FA, as well. Cutler hasn't attracted jack sh*t to Chicago, except his old buddies. If he was a good leader, he would have attracted better OL FA's by now. He did get to the NFC Championship game, but that might be as far as they go...time will tell.

Good point, although I hate McDaniels, and acknowledge him as the worst Coach/GM in the history of the Broncos...in a way, it had to happen in order for us to get where we are today.

Plus, I like Von Miller. I think Von and Wolfe are leaders that the Defense needed to be able to beat the Patriots. We don't draft Von if we aren't the 2nd worst team in the NFL in 2010. Sometimes, to reach the top, you have to through the valley first.

bases055
08-12-2012, 03:44 AM
lmagine this. You are attracted to women, Iike you are now (emotionally and sexually), but they do not exist. They existed a long time ago, and no one knows what they looked like (They have a pretty good idea from the fossils, however), but they do not exist anymore. That means, not only do you know there will never be any possibility of you having sex with one, but there's not even a possibility of you ever seeing one in real life. Everyone else, however, except for a very few, are not attracted to women, they are attracted to something else entirely. So in other words, you will never find any porn anywhere on the internet, only non-sexual pictures of women. Everyone you have told about your attraction to women think it's disgusting. To relieve yourself, you get off on the non-sexual pictures of women, knowing it will never get any better.


What the meth is this?

Mediator12
08-12-2012, 06:06 AM
I also forgot to mention that before the season had even ended, the Pats some how were able to hire McD onto the team in the middle of the playoffs. How is that even possible??

Because there was no rule prohibiting it. This has since been changed.

Mediator12
08-12-2012, 06:22 AM
I have Always liked Belichick the coach and defended him as a coach. The man has some brilliant ideas and even better recruited the talent that can execute it. His genius is getting the right players to take away the strength of the other team on defense. On offense, he has also seen the decline of the safety as an opportunity. He is attacking the middle of the field with a tiny route genius he stole from miami in a brillaint trade (Welker) and drafts heavily early on the OL, DL, and got his two mismatch TE's in one draft.

The reasons not to like him have all been stated as well. He is a nightmare on the Public relations front. He has allowed football to control him, and not controlled himself. His Life off the field is sketchy and he will not only cross the line on the rules, he will cross it willingly and exploit that inside information and think its OK. If this was war, no problem. However, its not war. His failures as a HC in CLE lead him to a massive life makeover in which he put the team and winning before the rules and now is in win at all costs and take no prisoners mentality.

And, I have read just about every published work on the man. As a MHC and therapist, his life story is fascinating to me. The reverence he gets for winning in NE totally overlooks his misgivings in life. Sometimes, being good at what you do pays even though you use despicable means to achieve it. That is why I never became a Lawyer. I could not stomache the pure deception of the truth and justice every day just to win cases or outcomes. I could not sleep at night knowing what lengths I would have to go to simply to win cases.

Belichick is a fantastic coach, and definintely HOF worthy if he can keep himself from getting caught cheating again. The more he coaches though, the less I believe he will make it without getting caught again IMHO. It's not in his desperate nature to win at all costs.

RedEyedJeti
08-12-2012, 06:29 AM
https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRgaRj_IjoCqe2eSRq4i6_e5wPIoYJWc qMTb_WYRN9uZaCex2Z_zA

The Stupidest Man in the NFL is Bill Belichick. He may have had better days back when he was a more successful cheater. But now, he's just stupid. -And the man who holds the record for paying the largest fine of any coach in NFL history.

RedEyedJeti
08-12-2012, 06:33 AM
[QUOTE=ClamChowdah;3637186]People need to start respecting the greatest coach ever, the guy has 5 rings and 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years.

I think its jealousy, you?


There is absolutely nothing to like about your team, except maybe your owner. Why he didn't take Bill Belichick down after Spygate is still a mystery to me. No success on any level excuses Bill Belichicks behavior during that debacle. I still cringe thinking about Robert Kraft having to stand up in front of all the owners and apologize for his franchise while Bill Belichick hid in a corner somewhere. Truly pathetic and if there is any truth to karma, the Pats will never lift another Lombardi while Bill Belichick is still in town !

Bacchus
08-12-2012, 07:12 AM
[QUOTE=ClamChowdah;3637186]People need to start respecting the greatest coach ever, the guy has 5 rings and 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years.

I think its jealousy, you?


There is absolutely nothing to like about your team, except maybe your owner.

The owner is a borderline child molester.

http://itsalwayssunnyindetroit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Kraft-Lander.jpg

Bmore Manning
08-12-2012, 09:21 AM
YO moron it was the lack of defenses that cost Peyton chances..

It WAS PEYTON that was costing Y'all 20% + of your salary cap each year..

If they had an extra $10 mil or so to spend on D perhaps you would have won more title chances.. but some one thought all it took was out scoring the the other team instead of playing some defense from time to time..

ROFL! some people's kids..

Only an unknowledgeable moron like yourself would talk about a different segment in time, post spy gate. Part of the reason Peyton mastered the audible at the line is because that spygate D lined up perfectly to stop Indys offense.

nyuk nyuk
08-12-2012, 09:28 AM
People need to start respecting the greatest coach ever, the guy has 5 rings and 5 Superbowl appearances in 10 years.

I think its jealousy, you?

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1130/1387472612_17fcecea1b.jpg

How many since the cheating scandal? :wave:

nyuk nyuk
08-12-2012, 09:29 AM
[QUOTE=RedEyedJeti;3637764]

The owner is a borderline child molester.

http://itsalwayssunnyindetroit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Kraft-Lander.jpg

$$$$$$$

nyuk nyuk
08-12-2012, 09:30 AM
and as a bronco fan and as much as i hate the raiders, they got screwed. "tuck rule" my butt

It's okay - how much crap have they gotten away with?

baja
08-12-2012, 09:30 AM
Only an unknowledgeable moron like yourself would talk about a different segment in time, post spy gate. Part of the reason Peyton mastered the audible at the line is because that spygate D lined up perfectly to stop Indys offense.


That is an interesting tidbit

OBF1
08-12-2012, 09:47 AM
I have no problem with him at all. Are the Pats as "great" as they used to be... No is my answer.

DBroncos4life
08-12-2012, 10:02 AM
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/8261832/new-england-patriots-work-plaxico-burress-sunday-source-says

BB just doesn't get it anymore does he LOL

DBroncos4life
08-12-2012, 10:05 AM
Also the Pats are looking to sign Chad Clifton. Brady could be in trouble this year.

Bmore Manning
08-12-2012, 10:33 AM
That is an interesting tidbit

We are talking when Peyton was still evolving. It was the early 2000's not much past his rookie deal. That Patriot D was always one step ahead of Peyton.. Helps when you know what the offense is running. Interestingly Peyton began to master the Audible at the line to account for defensive schemes and force other teams to match his move and reveal their hand, or get burned.

We all know Indy always had a putrid D, for him to state that as the sole reason Peyton was deprived of a handful + of Super Bowl appearances is stating the obvious. And multiple missed field goals by the idiot kicker, some cheating by the Patriots, and a lack of a D all contributed to less rings on his fingers.

baja
08-12-2012, 10:38 AM
We are talking when Peyton was still evolving. It was the early 2000's not much past his rookie deal. That Patriot D was always one step ahead of Peyton.. Helps when you know what the offense is running. Interestingly Peyton began to master the Audible at the line to account for defensive schemes and force other teams to match his move and reveal their hand, or get burned.

We all know Indy always had a putrid D, for him to state that as the sole reason Peyton was deprived of a handful + of Super Bowl appearances is stating the obvious. And multiple missed field goals by the idiot kicker, some cheating by the Patriots, and a lack of a D all contributed to less rings on his fingers.


I like it when you share your Peyton knowlage.

Don't know why some here tend to give you a hard time.

lonestar
08-12-2012, 01:09 PM
Cutler is a very interesting dilemma. No, I don't believe Elway would have gotten rid of Cutler. Therefore, we never would have gotten Manning. I guess everything depends on if you believe Cutler could have gotten us to a SB or not.

I would say no...

Manning has attracted Caldwell, Tamme, Dreessen, Porter, Adams, Florence, Brooking, and Leonhard. Hopefully we'll get more help next year in FA, as well. Cutler hasn't attracted jack sh*t to Chicago, except his old buddies. If he was a good leader, he would have attracted better OL FA's by now. He did get to the NFC Championship game, but that might be as far as they go...time will tell.

Good point, although I hate McDaniels, and acknowledge him as the worst Coach/GM in the history of the Broncos...in a way, it had to happen in order for us to get where we are today.

Plus, I like Von Miller. I think Von and Wolfe are leaders that the Defense needed to be able to beat the Patriots. We don't draft Von if we aren't the 2nd worst team in the NFL in 2010. Sometimes, to reach the top, you have to through the valley first.

Good points but overall..

Tanahan IIRC made all personnel that used to play in DEN persona non grata, at the practices, sidelines in the Boxes owned by the Broncos.. ONLY Pat had the balls to invite John to his box on sunday..

With perhaps the exception of Rod Smith who was asked or volunteered to mentor the moron AKA BM.. I did nto recall any oldies invited in to give a speech or interact with Tanahans boys.

MAybe I missed something living 900 miles away and I'm sure that I will hear about it if I'm wrong.. to which I will stand corrected..

But John had IIRC little love for how Tanahan ran his show and cutlet being the head case he was and IIRC felt he was entitled to a new contract along with the rest of the trio. I think he would have made basically the same decision that Josh did he was not going to win the big one and send his ass packing after DRAFTING a new guy to replace him.

 John was big on TEAM players much like Josh was So I'd guess that the decision would have been come to sooner or later...


As for Josh yep he made mistakes but had they placed a strong GM on the team also I'll guess that many of those mistakes would not have happened..
He did what many thought needed to be done make the team faster, bigger and smarter all the while trying to make it a TEAM where no one guy was treated better than the rest

All of this is IMHO..

lonestar
08-12-2012, 01:10 PM
[QUOTE=RedEyedJeti;3637764]

The owner is a borderline child molester.

http://itsalwayssunnyindetroit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Kraft-Lander.jpg

someone youd hit it a heart beat.. Sounds like jealousy to me..

lonestar
08-12-2012, 01:22 PM
Only an unknowledgeable moron like yourself would talk about a different segment in time, post spy gate. Part of the reason Peyton mastered the audible at the line is because that spygate D lined up perfectly to stop Indys offense.

apples and strawberries..

DID Manning commandeer 20%+ of the yearly cap? yes or NO if not then how much did he get?

how many defensive top ten categories did INDY have while Manning was making a gazillion dollars each year?

As for NE trying to beat MAnning well actually they were kicking his ass most of the times he played them IIRC..

I think your wrong on many counts

From what I know of IND/Manning..


Tom Moore taught him everything he knew about the O..
Manning became the defacto OC of the team in the later years..
MAnning sucked up everything that Moore could teach him.
Manning called his own game because he was the master..
the QB finally took back control from the headset as he had mastered the complex playbook like none of the other QB's had..


thus the hurry up became their offense..

NOw perhaps since you followed INDy closer I'm wrong but I'll guess Tom/Peyton is a lot closer to the actual facts than your concoction..
 

Simply Red
08-12-2012, 01:23 PM
I think its jealousy, you?

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1130/1387472612_17fcecea1b.jpg



Most def.

Shifting sports, I think the same applies to Coach "K" - and in all honesty, I can't stand Duke.

- but both Coach K and Belicheat are phenomenal role-models and leaders w/ uncanny knowledge of their trade.

lonestar
08-12-2012, 01:28 PM
I have Always liked Belichick the coach and defended him as a coach. The man has some brilliant ideas and even better recruited the talent that can execute it. His genius is getting the right players to take away the strength of the other team on defense. On offense, he has also seen the decline of the safety as an opportunity. He is attacking the middle of the field with a tiny route genius he stole from miami in a brillaint trade (Welker) and drafts heavily early on the OL, DL, and got his two mismatch TE's in one draft.

The reasons not to like him have all been stated as well. He is a nightmare on the Public relations front. He has allowed football to control him, and not controlled himself. His Life off the field is sketchy and he will not only cross the line on the rules, he will cross it willingly and exploit that inside information and think its OK. If this was war, no problem. However, its not war. His failures as a HC in CLE lead him to a massive life makeover in which he put the team and winning before the rules and now is in win at all costs and take no prisoners mentality.

And, I have read just about every published work on the man. As a MHC and therapist, his life story is fascinating to me. The reverence he gets for winning in NE totally overlooks his misgivings in life. Sometimes, being good at what you do pays even though you use despicable means to achieve it. That is why I never became a Lawyer. I could not stomache the pure deception of the truth and justice every day just to win cases or outcomes. I could not sleep at night knowing what lengths I would have to go to simply to win cases.

Belichick is a fantastic coach and definitely HOF worthy if he can keep himself from getting caught cheating again. The more he coaches though, the less I believe he will make it without getting caught again IMHO. It's not in his desperate nature to win at all costs.

Outstanding POST :thumbs:

Unless he loses the locker room I suspect he will get another ring or two..

But he better hurry because Brady is not getting any younger..

I noticed your commentary about the drafting as hi lighted in RED.. I have seen that as a huge key to his success.. as I have always believed you win or lose at the LOS..

Simply Red
08-12-2012, 01:29 PM
Outstanding POST :thumbs:


Thanks guy.

Mediator12
08-12-2012, 01:58 PM
Outstanding POST :thumbs:

Unless he loses the locker room I suspect he will get another ring or two..

But he better hurry because Brady is not getting any younger..

I noticed your commentary about the drafting as hi lighted in RED.. I have seen that as a huge key to his success.. as I have always believed you win or lose at the LOS..

I do not know if they will win again, because they have become one dimensional like INDY was when they used to kick their ass. The defense was the reason they have not been as good recently. They no longer have the Dominant DL, the solid secondary, and the versatile LB core.

Until they get to respectable on defense again, which could be awhile, I think they just emulate INDY and have tons of worthless regular season wins and a bunch of playoff losses.

bowtown
08-12-2012, 01:59 PM
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2012/02/d5ddc534fa70260f8a67ba02c7c7074e.jpg

Just saying.

baja
08-12-2012, 02:05 PM
He looks like a more depressed than usual Elton John.

pricejj
08-12-2012, 05:11 PM
All of this is IMHO..

I guess we'll find out in the coming years, which guy (Cutler or Manning) can get their team to a SB after starting from scratch. However, judging from the 1st preseason game, Chicago's GM isn't very good. I wonder if their is more trouble on the horizon with Cutler? Urlacher isn't getting any younger.

You're right, the good thing about Elway, is the focus on the Broncos culture, including a much higher visibility of former players. After viewing the first game, it is quite apparent that Elway has managed to assemble a perfect complement of coaching staff and players:

1. Fox has sound Defensive philosophy, and is a great lead man, allowing players to play, and assistant coaches to acquire what talent the need to succeed (Ex. letting JDR pick his man, Wolfe).

2. JDR has tons of of experience in the NFL, he and Fox form a solid duo with ample knowledge in the 4-3 base Defense, and good ability to evaluate Defensive talent.

3. Manning is an HOF QB, who needs the Offensive Coordinator to be hard-working, concise, and flexible enough to allow Manning do what he does best.

4. McCoy is an intelligent Offensive Coordinator with attention to detail. Last year, with Tebow, McCoy showed the ability to create an Offense that allowed a QB to succeed (for the most part, though I disliked the lack of short passes, and misuse of TE's). Most importantly, McCoy is willing to take a backseat to Manning, while providing valuable insight at the same time.

pricejj
08-12-2012, 05:27 PM
Until they get to respectable on defense again, which could be awhile, I think they just emulate INDY and have tons of worthless regular season wins and a bunch of playoff losses.

The addition of Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower don't hurt. I think the Patriots Defense is back in effect in NE. They are as talented now, as they ever were (except now they don't have the cheating advantage) The problem with the Patriots appears to be the Offensive line. If Brian Waters doesn't return, the Patriots run game will suck (also factor McDaniels idiotic scheme into the equation). Solder can probably pull it together at LT, but Vollmer's back issues remind me of Ryan Harris.

It appears the Patriots are trying to emulate the 2006 Colts, and are doing a pretty good job. Their only problem is a lack of speed at the WR position. Adding Plaxico Burress would be smart, as it would put Welker in the slot in crucial situations where he should be. Protection may be a big problem for Brady this year, hindering the Patriots ability to take advantage of the entire football field. I'm hoping the Broncos pass rush can throttle Brady. We shall see. :sunshine:

lonestar
08-12-2012, 05:30 PM
I do not know if they will win again, because they have become one dimensional like INDY was when they used to kick their ass. The defense was the reason they have not been as good recently. They no longer have the Dominant DL, the solid secondary, and the versatile LB core.

Until they get to respectable on defense again, which could be awhile, I think they just emulate INDY and have tons of worthless regular season wins and a bunch of playoff losses.

While I understand why they traded Seymour that IMO was the beginning of the end for the D..

Who could pass up two #1 picks for a guy that was going to be a UFA anyway..

alot like Tanahan did..

lonestar
08-12-2012, 05:37 PM
I guess we'll find out in the coming years, which guy (Cutler or Manning) can get their team to a SB after starting from scratch. However, judging from the 1st preseason game, Chicago's GM isn't very good. I wonder if their is more trouble on the horizon with Cutler? Urlacher isn't getting any younger.

You're right, the good thing about Elway, is the focus on the Broncos culture, including a much higher visibility of former players. After viewing the first game, it is quite apparent that Elway has managed to assemble a perfect complement of coaching staff and players:

1. Fox has sound Defensive philosophy, and is a great lead man, allowing players to play, and assistant coaches to acquire what talent the need to succeed (Ex. letting JDR pick his man, Wolfe).

2. JDR has tons of of experience in the NFL, he and Fox form a solid duo with ample knowledge in the 4-3 base Defense, and good ability to evaluate Defensive talent.

3. Manning is an HOF QB, who needs the Offensive Coordinator to be hard-working, concise, and flexible enough to allow Manning do what he does best.

4. McCoy is an intelligent Offensive Coordinator with attention to detail. Last year, with Tebow, McCoy showed the ability to create an Offense that allowed a QB to succeed (for the most part, though I disliked the lack of short passes, and misuse of TE's). Most importantly, McCoy is willing to take a backseat to Manning, while providing valuable insight at the same time.

I'm not impressed with Mc COy other than he listened to the QB's this year and last and got out of their way and let them run the O they were comfortable with..

I do not think he designed it as much as picked their brains and put it down on paper when they were talking..

now some could call that a good man I do not thing he is inventive enough to be a Great OC.. merely a copy cat..

I would not blink a bit if they lost him to become a HC some where next year.. NOW JDR is another story I'm hoping he will become our Dick Labau a forever DC that Knows that is his spot in the NFL and his ONLY chance to get into the HOF..

SoCalBronco
08-12-2012, 05:37 PM
Good points but overall..

Tanahan IIRC made all personnel that used to play in DEN persona non grata, at the practices, sidelines in the Boxes owned by the Broncos.. ONLY Pat had the balls to invite John to his box on sunday..

I seem to remember not just Rod but Ed and also TD coming around the facility from time to time. Not that its relevant ot anything anyway. It is true that Elway wasn't around as much, possibly because it was prettly clear that he wanted to run a team, if he got his foot in the door, it would be hard for Shanny to keep him from eventually overpowering him, which wouldn't be acceptable and I agree with Shanny on that.

With perhaps the exception of Rod Smith who was asked or volunteered to mentor the moron AKA BM.. I did nto recall any oldies invited in to give a speech or interact with Tanahans boys.

MAybe I missed something living 900 miles away and I'm sure that I will hear about it if I'm wrong.. to which I will stand corrected..

But John had IIRC little love for how Tanahan ran his show and cutlet being the head case he was and IIRC felt he was entitled to a new contract along with the rest of the trio. I think he would have made basically the same decision that Josh did he was not going to win the big one and send his ass packing after DRAFTING a new guy to replace him.

Is this why Elway basically came out and said that moving Cutler was a mistake and something he wouldn't have done? Facts can be inconvienient things.

 John was big on TEAM players much like Josh was So I'd guess that the decision would have been come to sooner or later...


As for Josh yep he made mistakes but had they placed a strong GM on the team also I'll guess that many of those mistakes would not have happened..
He did what many thought needed to be done make the team faster, bigger and smarter all the while trying to make it a TEAM where no one guy was treated better than the rest

All of this is IMHO..

Some responses above.

DBroncos4life
08-12-2012, 05:48 PM
The addition of Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower don't hurt. I think the Patriots Defense is back in effect in NE. They are as talented now, as they ever were (except now they don't have the cheating advantage) The problem with the Patriots appears to be the Offensive line. If Brian Waters doesn't return, the Patriots run game will suck (also factor McDaniels idiotic scheme into the equation). Solder can probably pull it together at LT, but Vollmer's back issues remind me of Ryan Harris.

It appears the Patriots are trying to emulate the 2006 Colts, and are doing a pretty good job. Their only problem is a lack of speed at the WR position. Adding Plaxico Burress would be smart, as it would put Welker in the slot in crucial situations where he should be. Protection may be a big problem for Brady this year, hindering the Patriots ability to take advantage of the entire football field. I'm hoping the Broncos pass rush can throttle Brady. We shall see. :sunshine:

If Solder was the answer they wouldn't be working out Clifton. Hilarious! As for the D they replaced two players with 10 plus sacks with two rookies. That is not going to cut it. They already lost a guy that they wanted to start at MLB for the season as well. You overrate that OL and D so much it isn't even funny. The AFC East sucks and that saves the Pats every year, though I think Williams and the Bills are going make life hell for Brady this year.

lonestar
08-12-2012, 05:52 PM
Some responses above.

really hard to quote and respond to Y'all that seem to think we will not get the jist of your post..

I seem to remember not just Rod but Ed and also TD coming around the facility from time to time. Not that its relevant ot anything anyway. It is true that Elway wasn't around as much, possibly because it was prettly clear that he wanted to run a team, if he got his foot in the door, it would be hard for Shanny to keep him from eventually overpowering him, which wouldn't be acceptable and I agree with Shanny on that.

Is this why Elway basically came out and said that moving Cutler was a mistake and something he wouldn't have done? Facts can be inconvienient things.

Now do you know for sure that was coach/GM speak or if he meant it..

personally from what I heard John extended his hand to cutlet and got rebuffed..

I suspect that John was merely saying what most folks wanted to hear after Josh was fired and he was hired..

that it was a bad move..

As petulant as cutlet is I do not think that either Fox or Elway would have put up with his attitude especially wanting top dollar money when he is not close to being a top five QB..

That is just how I read the Johns..

maybe being this far away I missed something but Elway does not strike me as a guy that forgets snubs and stupid comments about cutlet having a stronger arm than Elway had..

like I said compound this with cutlet wanting a huge contract and with all the other starter quality QB's in the draft, I think they would have moved him in a heart beat..

Can you see John Fox the coach known for his running game getting on cutlet after he forced YET another pass into double or triple coverage and losing the ball and a chance to score..

talk about sulking on the sidelines aI suspect he would head into the player portal to mope this one out..

Anyone that saw cutlet fold like a cheap tent during the last SAN game with rivers and the Defense mocking him on the sidelines KNOWS that cutlet may never beat that team again..

That was the minute I knew he was gone from DEN.. spotting a division opponent 2 game each year was not going to happen..

again IMHO..

but you will never change my mind on it..

BTW cutlet will not be the driving force that wins a super blow in CHI he may be along for the ride but it will not be him that gets them there, the defense and ST's will make more difference than he does.. Just like they have since he has been there..

Bmore Manning
08-12-2012, 06:07 PM
apples and strawberries..

DID Manning commandeer 20%+ of the yearly cap? yes or NO if not then how much did he get?

how many defensive top ten categories did INDY have while Manning was making a gazillion dollars each year?

As for NE trying to beat MAnning well actually they were kicking his ass most of the times he played them IIRC..

I think your wrong on many counts

From what I know of IND/Manning..


Tom Moore taught him everything he knew about the O..
Manning became the defacto OC of the team in the later years..
MAnning sucked up everything that Moore could teach him.
Manning called his own game because he was the master..
the QB finally took back control from the headset as he had mastered the complex playbook like none of the other QB's had..


thus the hurry up became their offense..

NOw perhaps since you followed INDy closer I'm wrong but I'll guess Tom/Peyton is a lot closer to the actual facts than your concoction..
 

Twenty percent cap hit was much further down the road. We don't even need to go there with how bad cap management and GMing was with Indy. Peyton made stars of Harrison, Wayne, Collie, Clark, Tamme.. Etc. Indy not using their money well is a product of bad management.

You just said Manning had to learn and evolve, when NE had Indys # they were filming teams practicing. They were always in the right place at the right time, kind of weird huh? It was the early 2000s not the last five years.. Peyton profected the Audible at the LOS to compensate. Hence Peyton evolved..

Indy was a timing offense, perfected through years of repetitions. Their play book was not complicated. Why are you asking about their D? Their D was terrible. Had Peyton been on a team like the Ravens or Steelers, we are talking about 5-10 SB appearances and rings!

I love how Elway is putting a D around him, very excited for Peyton in Denver!

lonestar
08-12-2012, 06:16 PM
Twenty percent cap hit was much further down the road. We don't even need to go there with how bad cap management and GMing was with Indy. Peyton made stars of Harrison, Wayne, Collie, Clark, Tamme.. Etc. Indy not using their money well is a product of bad management.

You just said Manning had to learn and evolve, when NE had Indys # they were filming teams practicing. They were always in the right place at the right time, kind of weird huh? It was the early 2000s not the last five years.. Peyton profected the Audible at the LOS to compensate. Hence Peyton evolved..

Indy was a timing offense, perfected through years of repetitions. Their play book was not complicated. Why are you asking about their D? Their D was terrible. Had Peyton been on a team like the Ravens or Steelers, we are talking about 5-10 SB appearances and rings!

I love how Elway is putting a D around him, very excited for Peyton in Denver!
so manning expecting 20% or more of the cap was all their fault?


Yes Manning was a man above men when changing the position although not sure many more IF any QB's will be given the ability to run no huddle like he has been..

 HAd they not spent that much on him do you think they may have had a better D?

SoCalBronco
08-12-2012, 06:20 PM
really hard to quote and respond to Y'all that seem to think we will not get the jist of your post.


Now do you know for sure that was coach/GM speak or if he meant it..

No I don't know for sure, although I suspect that it is unlikely that is GM speak, as even after Josh was fired, most people here didn't love Jay anymore, they just hated Josh. There were precious few of us left that still loved Jay, so he gained nothing by saying that, although I do apprecaite that he did basically confirm that his boss is a moron, which again we knew already.

personally from what I heard John extended his hand to cutlet and got rebuffed..

Maybe...I dont know one way or another. I'm not sure what extending his hand specifically entailed so I couldnt' comment on it, its too speculative.

I suspect that John was merely saying what most folks wanted to hear after Josh was fired and he was hired..

that it was a bad move..

See above.

As petulant as cutlet is I do not think that either Fox or Elway would have put up with his attitude especially wanting top dollar money when he is not close to being a top five QB..
I see nothing wrong in Cutler's attitude. No, the morally bankrupt party was the former coach and the club management. Don't piss him off unnecessarily and shove a stick in his eye and he'll be fine. Act like a jerk (like McD did) and he'll throw it back in your face....as he should. When the Dove Valley character assasination team comes out, you gotta respond accordingly. If anything Jay was too mild in his response. McD should have been thoroughly and utterly humiliated. The old man claimed after Shanny was fired that Jay would be the man. Treat him with the respect he deserves or burn. It's not that hard of a concept.


That is just how I read the Johns..

maybe being this far away I missed something but Elway does not strike me as a guy that forgets snubs and stupid comments about cutlet having a stronger arm than Elway had..
LOL...maybe its not Cutler who's the petulant one, then

like I said compound this with cutlet wanting a huge contract and with all the other starter quality QB's in the draft, I think they would have moved him in a heart beat..
The issue re: contract only came up after the Cassel stuff came into play. There is no evidence to suggest he would have held out or whatever if Shanny remained the coach. A little more progress and he would be richly deserving of a massive extension. Stud physical talent with good mobility and constantly improving...yeah forget about the draft, he's got it all right there, its just a matter of progression. Pro Bowl in Year 3 and only getting better from there, esp with a great system in place and great supporting talent. Even with a garbage OC with a garbage line last year, he was having a super season and had them primed for a playoff berth...again.


Can you see John Fox the coach known for his running game getting on cutlet after he forced YET another pass into double or triple coverage and losing the ball and a chance to score..

talk about sulking on the sidelines aI suspect he would head into the player portal to mope this one out..

Anyone that saw cutlet fold like a cheap tent during the last SAN game with rivers and the Defense mocking him on the sidelines KNOWS that cutlet may never beat that team again..
Except that the last game he played he kicked the absolute **** out of San Diego. Are you really making these arguments?

That was the minute I knew he was gone from DEN.. spotting a division opponent 2 game each year was not going to happen..
He made his share of errors, as a second year starter...bigger problem IMO was arguably the worst defense of all time.
again IMHO..

but you will never change my mind on it..
Same here.

BTW cutlet will not be the driving force that wins a super blow in CHI he may be along for the ride but it will not be him that gets them there, the defense and ST's will make more difference than he does.. Just like they have since he has been there..

More responses above....apologize for using the blue thing I know you can't quote it easily but I can't cut and quote for each one, I've never really been able to do that. And yes..he will be a driving force in their Super Bowl. That team is nothing without him.

lonestar
08-12-2012, 06:37 PM
More responses above....apologize for using the blue thing I know you can't quote it easily but I can't cut and quote for each one, I've never really been able to do that. And yes..he will be a driving force in their Super Bowl. That team is nothing without him.

not even going to bother reading because I know I will want to refute it and not going to do your job sorting it out..

stop being lazy with the quoting/posting..

SoCalBronco
08-12-2012, 06:40 PM
Fine. Here you go...the responses:

1. No I don't know for sure, although I suspect that it is unlikely that is GM speak, as even after Josh was fired, most people here didn't love Jay anymore, they just hated Josh. There were precious few of us left that still loved Jay, so he gained nothing by saying that, although I do apprecaite that he did basically confirm that his boss is a moron, which again we knew already.

2. Maybe...I dont know one way or another. I'm not sure what extending his hand specifically entailed so I couldnt' comment on it, its too speculative

3. I see nothing wrong in Cutler's attitude. No, the morally bankrupt party was the former coach and the club management. Don't piss him off unnecessarily and shove a stick in his eye and he'll be fine. Act like a jerk (like McD did) and he'll throw it back in your face....as he should. When the Dove Valley character assasination team comes out, you gotta respond accordingly. If anything Jay was too mild in his response. McD should have been thoroughly and utterly humiliated. The old man claimed after Shanny was fired that Jay would be the man. Treat him with the respect he deserves or burn. It's not that hard of a concept.

4. ...maybe its not Cutler who's the petulant one, then

5.The issue re: contract only came up after the Cassel stuff came into play. There is no evidence to suggest he would have held out or whatever if Shanny remained the coach. A little more progress and he would be richly deserving of a massive extension. Stud physical talent with good mobility and constantly improving...yeah forget about the draft, he's got it all right there, its just a matter of progression. Pro Bowl in Year 3 and only getting better from there, esp with a great system in place and great supporting talent. Even with a garbage OC with a garbage line last year, he was having a super season and had them primed for a playoff berth...again.


6. Except that the last game he played he kicked the absolute **** out of San Diego. Are you really making these arguments?

7. He made his share of errors, as a second year starter...bigger problem IMO was arguably the worst defense of all time.

Again, I cant do the quote/post thing for each one, I am not that savvy, so this is the best I can do. Feel free to respond.

Houshyamama
08-12-2012, 07:17 PM
I can't wait for the Patriots to fade back into mediocrity after Brady retires.

Then assclowns like this can go back to rooting for a mediocre Red Sox club.

Simply Red
08-12-2012, 07:29 PM
I think him, Parcells, Coach K, Bobby Knight and potentially Charlie Manuel are all in a league of their own.

SoCalBronco
08-12-2012, 07:32 PM
I think him, Parcells, Coach K, Bobby Knight and potentially Charlie Manuel are all in a league of their own.

I'm assuming you're joking with the Charlie Manuel reference.....yes?

Simply Red
08-12-2012, 07:48 PM
I'm assuming you're joking with the Charlie Manuel reference.....yes?

yes, but he'd be a great Grandpa, i never knew either of my gramps, so it's weird like that, and I'm a Braves fan.

No I joke, but Manuel is a good manager and i like him as a person a ton, for whatever reason. His demeanor, I suppose, good sport type, always calm, seemingly.

Bmore Manning
08-12-2012, 07:56 PM
so manning expecting 20% or more of the cap was all their fault?


Yes Manning was a man above men when changing the position although not sure many more IF any QB's will be given the ability to run no huddle like he has been..

 HAd they not spent that much on him do you think they may have had a better D?

Manning expecting 20% of the cap? Get off your soap box, do you think Manning can play for free? Or take less money? How will other QBs get payed? I'm sure that will go over well with NFL agents and players. Organizations can say hey PM took veteran minimum why can't you? Players have to get paid so other players can get paid. Peyton is so selfish that he gave Denver and Indy medical outs. So selfish that he donates millions to charity's and builds hospitals. Look what he has done for families of the fire and shooting in Denver.

If your bitter about Manning, I suggest you find a new team to watch on Sundays.

lonestar
08-12-2012, 08:12 PM
Fine. Here you go...the responses:

1. No I don't know for sure, although I suspect that it is unlikely that is GM speak, as even after Josh was fired, most people here didn't love Jay anymore, they just hated Josh. There were precious few of us left that still loved Jay, so he gained nothing by saying that, although I do apprecaite that he did basically confirm that his boss is a moron, which again we knew already.

2. Maybe...I dont know one way or another. I'm not sure what extending his hand specifically entailed so I couldnt' comment on it, its too speculative

3. I see nothing wrong in Cutler's attitude. No, the morally bankrupt party was the former coach and the club management. Don't piss him off unnecessarily and shove a stick in his eye and he'll be fine. Act like a jerk (like McD did) and he'll throw it back in your face....as he should. When the Dove Valley character assasination team comes out, you gotta respond accordingly. If anything Jay was too mild in his response. McD should have been thoroughly and utterly humiliated. The old man claimed after Shanny was fired that Jay would be the man. Treat him with the respect he deserves or burn. It's not that hard of a concept.

4. ...maybe its not Cutler who's the petulant one, then

5.The issue re: contract only came up after the Cassel stuff came into play. There is no evidence to suggest he would have held out or whatever if Shanny remained the coach. A little more progress and he would be richly deserving of a massive extension. Stud physical talent with good mobility and constantly improving...yeah forget about the draft, he's got it all right there, its just a matter of progression. Pro Bowl in Year 3 and only getting better from there, esp with a great system in place and great supporting talent. Even with a garbage OC with a garbage line last year, he was having a super season and had them primed for a playoff berth...again.


6. Except that the last game he played he kicked the absolute **** out of San Diego. Are you really making these arguments?

7. He made his share of errors, as a second year starter...bigger problem IMO was arguably the worst defense of all time.

Again, I cant do the quote/post thing for each one, I am not that savvy, so this is the best I can do. Feel free to respond.


I see your a cutlet fan..

I'm not on here enough to figure out who the apologists and bromance folks are.. But thanks for letting me know who you are..

6.



Sun, Dec 28 nbc

(8-8-0)

Broncos 21

(8-8-0)

Chargers 52
It was over when ...
Chargers DE Luis Castillo intercepted a Jay Cutler pass inside the Broncos' 20-yard line, setting up LaDainian Tomlinson's third touchdown of the game -- a 14-yard run -- on the following play. The score gave San Diego a 38-13 lead midway through the third quarter.

now that was the game I remembered.. cutlet almost in tears on the sideline with Rivers and the defense mocking him..

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008122814/2008/REG17/broncos@chargers#tab=recap

If you do not remember how many times cutlet came to the sidelines and mope and sulk on the bench by himself,, then you have selective memory..

He would get pissed because of a bad pass or some one dropping one or running a bad route and if he threw a pick his teammates would come by to console him but he would wave them away..

Many of the games we lost were because of him forcing passes into double and triple coverages..


5. see your making excuses for him here also..

Everyone knew that mikey would redo contracts in the final years of their rookie contract.. the terrible three thought they were getting new fat contracts until mikey got his ass fired for cause..

when the new guy came in and said no new contracts all three got an attitude..

Did Pat say he was going to be the man, sure but should have been believed as much as any coach/gm speak..

When cutlet tried a power play Pat cut him off at the knees just like he should have other wise every one else would try the same crap..

BOO ****ing HOO

IMO when cutlet copped an attitude with Josh, Josh went to the tapes to really see if this punk was worth keeping.. Talked with the exsisting staff to get e feel for him also.. and cutlet with his I'm super **** attitude from the last year had few folks standing up for him..

When Josh told him he was going to call the plays in I suspect that was the beginning of the end of that relationship..

the rest is history and I'll guess that 80% of the fans that could care less about Josh backed the issue..

for YOU diehard Tanahan lovers, Belicheck Haters or better yet those with a bromance with cutlet it was 100% hate..

lonestar
08-12-2012, 08:19 PM
Manning expecting 20% of the cap? Get off your soap box, do you think Manning can play for free? Or take less money? How will other QBs get payed? I'm sure that will go over well with NFL agents and players. Organizations can say hey PM took veteran minimum why can't you? Players have to get paid so other players can get paid. Peyton is so selfish that he gave Denver and Indy medical outs. So selfish that he donates millions to charity's and builds hospitals. Look what he has done for families of the fire and shooting in Denver.

If your bitter about Manning, I suggest you find a new team to watch on Sundays.

not bitter at all..

But do not blame anyone BUT manning for not having more rings.. he was greedy and because of it they could not afford defensive players.. Plain and simple..

I know that many QB's have accepted lesser contracts or re did thir contracts to free up money to build a better team..

Manning as far as I know never did that.. Wanted his money plain and simple having a better team around him was not important..

SoCalBronco
08-12-2012, 08:24 PM
LOL....I love how you said after that game its clear he would never beat SD again...except that again, the last game Cutler played (last season) he raped San Diego. I'm glad you offered a substantive reply to that....oh wait, you didn't.

No, I'm not a Cutler apologist, because there's nothing to apologize for. I am, however, a big fan of Cutler and Shanny and also your other favorite, DJ, too.

Shanny promised all those guys contracts? Link? Do you not remember info seeping out that summer that Shanny was actually going to trade Marshall?

Your history is completely contrived. Do you not remember that Cutler was in the facility before even OTA's officially started, trying to learn the playbook? Why would he "cop an attitude" if he was there on his own time. Then your boy McD couldn't contain his hard-on for one of the worst QB's in the NFL in Cassel (even the biggest homer in the history of Chiefs message forums thinks Cassel is garbage) and created the problem. Your heroes in the FO and ownership then took unshirted hell and had to resort to below the belt personal attacks like leaking alcohol stuff as a way to turn the fanbase back into their favor (its unfortunate that salacious material about their own lives wasn't leaked in response) and when Cutler actually made a trek to the Valley, the old man apparently felt it wasn't worth his time to personally meet him even though by then even one with his limited faculties knew the two principals couldn't resolve the situation on their own cause it had become a dick measuring contest and McD needed to assert his authority out of his own insecurities. Many games were lost because he forced the ball into triple coverage? He had his picks that arose from aggressiveness, but Denver's record under Cutler when the defense held the opponent under 21 was stellar. 21...not 15, or 10....21.

baja
08-12-2012, 08:33 PM
Did Pat say he was going to be the man, sure but should have been believed as much as any coach/gm speak..


Am I the only one that remembers Pat's body language and tone of voice the day he made that statement.

He almost spit it out. I got the distinct impression he was saying something he hated saying but felt it necessary to say. I remember thinking at the time Bowlen really dislikes Cutler.

SoCalBronco
08-12-2012, 08:35 PM
Am I the only one that remembers Pat's body language and tone of voice the day he made that statement.

He almost spit it out. I got the distinct impression he was saying something he hated saying but felt it necessary to say. I remember thinking at the time Bowlen really dislikes Cutler.

I remember when you made this statement to me in a debate on this topic earlier. So Bowlen apparently "liked" the single most destructive force in franchise history (McD) more than Cutler.

Looks like he won't be teaching executive decisionmaking courses at Harvard anytime soon.

bombay
08-12-2012, 08:38 PM
Do other nfl teams have fan forums? Does this forum attract a bunch of trolls because it's best?

Stuck in Cali
08-12-2012, 08:40 PM
How he screwed Kosar is why I don't like the guy.

baja
08-12-2012, 08:43 PM
I remember when you made this statement to me in a debate on this topic earlier. So Bowlen apparently "liked" the single most destructive force in franchise history (McD) more than Cutler.

Looks like he won't be teaching executive decisionmaking courses at Harvard anytime soon.


It was in the early days of McD, lots of people still had high hopes for him.

pricejj
08-12-2012, 09:29 PM
The AFC East sucks and that saves the Pats every year, though I think Williams and the Bills are going make life hell for Brady this year.

Hope so, the Bills DL could be the best in the NFL. At least they will give us a better idea how to exploit the weaknesses.

Whether or not Waters returns is a big key...

broncocalijohn
08-12-2012, 09:33 PM
I remember when you made this statement to me in a debate on this topic earlier. So Bowlen apparently "liked" the single most destructive force in franchise history (McD) more than Cutler.

Looks like he won't be teaching executive decisionmaking courses at Harvard anytime soon.

You really think Pat knew at the very beginning that McD would be the absolute worst thing since he bought the Broncos? Of course we all wish he did but hindsight ......

Vegas_Bronco
08-12-2012, 09:37 PM
He wears a hoodie due to his.horrible breath and bad b.o.....at least thats what I gather from ppl who hoodie all the time.

lonestar
08-13-2012, 12:52 AM
You really think Pat knew at the very beginning that McD would be the absolute worst thing since he bought the Broncos? Of course we all wish he did but hindsight ......

was the real reason he hired him.. Hilarious!


some folks had a woody for him because tanahan was fired.. or because he came from NE..

or because He believed in cassel since he actually had coached him the year before.. That he actually knew the play books and could actually be an on the field coach instead of having to force feed cutlet the playbook, as well as keep him in harness because the NE passing game was not long ball, but a very controlled passing offense.. something cutlet did not want to do..

Let me get back to your original comment.. SURE PAT hired someone he did not like..Hilarious!

Bacchus
08-13-2012, 12:54 AM
[QUOTE=Bacchus;3637777]

someone youd hit it a heart beat.. Sounds like jealousy to me..

maybe a little, that being said I'm 25 years younger than Kraft.

TomServo
08-13-2012, 01:56 AM
the NFL is like Congress. cant afford to show how corrupt things are.

RedEyedJeti
08-13-2012, 04:50 AM
not bitter at all..

But do not blame anyone BUT manning for not having more rings.. he was greedy and because of it they could not afford defensive players.. Plain and simple..

I know that many QB's have accepted lesser contracts or re did thir contracts to free up money to build a better team..

Manning as far as I know never did that.. Wanted his money plain and simple having a better team around him was not important..

LOL

http://www.espnstar.com/us-sports/nfl/news/detail/item648816/NFL:-Peyton-wants-a-pay-cut/

Quarterback Peyton Manning is offering to take less money in his next new deal in order for the Indianapolis Colts to use it to strengthen the team elsewhere.

Colts owner Jim Irsay has stated previously that he wanted to make the four-time league MVP the highest paid player in the NFL by handing him a five-year deal worth $100 million.
Irsay and team president Bill Polian still seem keen to make a statement by making Manning the top earner in the NFL and building their team around him, but the veteran quarterback would prefer some of the money to be used elsewhere.

"While I appreciate Jim Irsay offering to make me the highest-paid player," Manning told The Indianapolis Star. "I told him I'd rather he save that money and keep whoever it is - Joe Addai, Charlie Johnson, whoever that may be.

"I'm willing to take less than they've offered if they are going to take that money to keep players we need to keep and go get other players.

"All I want is for them to have the cap and the cash to keep the players they want to keep and to sign other players."

It must be noted that it is not as though manning will not be paid handsomely, he will still receive around the $18 million a year deal that Tom Brady picks up from his deal with the New England Patriots.

Bmore Manning
08-13-2012, 07:54 AM
LOL

http://www.espnstar.com/us-sports/nfl/news/detail/item648816/NFL:-Peyton-wants-a-pay-cut/

Quarterback Peyton Manning is offering to take less money in his next new deal in order for the Indianapolis Colts to use it to strengthen the team elsewhere.

Colts owner Jim Irsay has stated previously that he wanted to make the four-time league MVP the highest paid player in the NFL by handing him a five-year deal worth $100 million.
Irsay and team president Bill Polian still seem keen to make a statement by making Manning the top earner in the NFL and building their team around him, but the veteran quarterback would prefer some of the money to be used elsewhere.

"While I appreciate Jim Irsay offering to make me the highest-paid player," Manning told The Indianapolis Star. "I told him I'd rather he save that money and keep whoever it is - Joe Addai, Charlie Johnson, whoever that may be.

"I'm willing to take less than they've offered if they are going to take that money to keep players we need to keep and go get other players.

"All I want is for them to have the cap and the cash to keep the players they want to keep and to sign other players."

It must be noted that it is not as though manning will not be paid handsomely, he will still receive around the $18 million a year deal that Tom Brady picks up from his deal with the New England Patriots.

Thank you for sparing me the trouble. This guy is a character, he thinks Peyton is selfish.. Funny.

Bmore Manning
08-13-2012, 07:56 AM
not bitter at all..

But do not blame anyone BUT manning for not having more rings.. he was greedy and because of it they could not afford defensive players.. Plain and simple..

I know that many QB's have accepted lesser contracts or re did thir contracts to free up money to build a better team..

Manning as far as I know never did that.. Wanted his money plain and simple having a better team around him was not important..

He was selfless.
They struck out for years on draft picks.
They always picked at the bottom of the first round.
Polian miss managed the cap.
Polian used UDFAs as many of the starters.
Look at the bottom RedEyeJetti posted a fabulous article for you to check out on the selfish Manning.

Gort
08-13-2012, 09:28 AM
He was selfless.
They struck out for years on draft picks.
They always picked at the bottom of the first round.
Polian miss managed the cap.
Polian used UDFAs as many of the starters.
Look at the bottom RedEyeJetti posted a fabulous article for you to check out on the selfish Manning.

so does Manning have a restraining order against you yet?

you can tell us. what is disclosed on the mane stays on the mane. promise.

Mediator12
08-13-2012, 09:41 AM
so does Manning have a restraining order against you yet?

you can tell us. what is disclosed on the mane stays on the mane. promise.

No need. Peyton is over half the country away ;D

Peyton is a good guy, just ask him. He does really care about the community though and his image. He does almost as much as Drew Brees to support the community he plays.

baja
08-13-2012, 09:48 AM
No need. Peyton is over half the country away ;D

Peyton is a good guy, just ask him. He does really care about the community though and his image. He does almost as much as Drew Brees to support the community he plays.

You are much more familiar with Manning that me but surprised to see this comment from you. Manning is obviously confident but doesn't seen to be a self promoter type.

Bmore Manning
08-13-2012, 01:09 PM
No need. Peyton is over half the country away ;D

Peyton is a good guy, just ask him. He does really care about the community though and his image. He does almost as much as Drew Brees to support the community he plays.

Almost as much as Brees? I am shocked to hear that coming from a Indianapolis native. You should know how much Peyton has done for that city. Brees is too busy worrying about his contract and getting top dollar with a large portion guaranteed.

Bmore Manning
08-13-2012, 01:15 PM
so does Manning have a restraining order against you yet?

you can tell us. what is disclosed on the mane stays on the mane. promise.

It must be still pending.. Funny yours already processed for Timmy.
Sounds like the pots calling the kettle black

Beantown Bronco
08-13-2012, 01:30 PM
Manning could have a restraining order of 100 feet and it wouldn't do any good. You could be in the freaking basement of his mansion and not be in danger of violating it.

Bronco Yoda
08-13-2012, 01:36 PM
lmagine this. You are attracted to women, Iike you are now (emotionally and sexually), but they do not exist. They existed a long time ago, and no one knows what they looked like (They have a pretty good idea from the fossils, however), but they do not exist anymore. That means, not only do you know there will never be any possibility of you having sex with one, but there's not even a possibility of you ever seeing one in real life. Everyone else, however, except for a very few, are not attracted to women, they are attracted to something else entirely. So in other words, you will never find any porn anywhere on the internet, only non-sexual pictures of women. Everyone you have told about your attraction to women think it's disgusting. To relieve yourself, you get off on the non-sexual pictures of women, knowing it will never get any better.

http://www.picanese.com/pbpics/wtf_barney_WnRJJy.jpg

Gort
08-13-2012, 02:18 PM
It must be still pending.. Funny yours already processed for Timmy.
Sounds like the pots calling the kettle black

smack fail.

i've been a Broncos fan since 1977.

you're still not a Broncos fan. if Manning were traded to the Raiders tomorrow, you'd take your mancrush and follow him over to BlackHoleMorons.com or ZombieAlDavis.com or whatever the hell the Raiders forums are named.

my support for Tebow started the day he was drafted (i didn't really know or care about anything he did at Florida) and ended when he was traded to the Jets. i still think he's a good kid and i hope he does well there, but despite what you read here from the idiot brigade (mostly Errand and others like him), supporting Tebow against ad hominem attacks on a Broncos board while he was a Bronco is NOT the same as what you're doing with Manning.

...but keep f*cking that chicken if you want. no skin off my back. :D

DBroncos4life
08-13-2012, 02:45 PM
Lots good football talk going on here ROFL!