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cutthemdown
08-07-2012, 07:28 PM
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/08/03/broncos-s-moore-showing-improvement




Broncos 2011 second-rounder Rahim Moore has looked good in training camp in the battle to start at safety with Mike Adams, we hear. His competition, Quinton Carter, has been out with hamstring and knee injuries, also helping Moore’s cause.

The first safety taken in the 2011 draft, Moore didn’t live up to expectations, and one source believes that he wasn’t the same after a preseason hit on Bills WR Donald Jones that cost the rookie $20,000. Coming out of college, Moore showed strong ball skills but there were questions about his tackling and physicality, and that seemed to show in 2011.

Moore told reporters on Monday what he learned from watching tape. “When you’re a rookie, you’re trying to make some plays. You want to get respect,” he said. “Sometimes you’re just so fast for your own good and that’s when disciplinary issues come in. Missed tackles come in, missed opportunities, missed picks.”

Reports indicate that Moore’s improvement in his first full offseason has given him an edge for the starting job.

razorwire77
08-07-2012, 07:41 PM
I know it was the in vogue Mane thing to completely rip the kid a new asshole last year, and he did struggle, but one positive play stood out I remember in a goal-line situation against New England (regular season game) where he closed incredibly well and made a play in space that prevented a touchdown. A lot of these kids are so athletic out of high school and even in college, that they don't learn how to tackle. Hopefully, Moore's improvement will be sustained throughout preseason. Right now, we talkin bout practice.

The Joker
08-07-2012, 07:54 PM
This would be great.

Adams was a good signing, he should be a solid starter/good depth player while he's here. But Moore has the much higher ceiling, a lot of people rated him highly coming out of college. He was billed as a ballhawk, would be great to have a Safety back there consistently making plays for the first time in a long while.

The last time Denver had a safety with more than a single interception over the course of a season was 2005, that's hopeless!!

If Manning and the offense clicks and start forcing teams to pass the ball a lot against us it'd be great to see us have a defense that consistently gets turnovers, it's been a long time.

With the likes of Doom, Miller, Ayers and hopefully now Wolfe and maybe another newcomer out there rushing the passer there should be opportunities for the secondary to make some plays. I don't think we're good enough at LB and DT to be a really top defense this year, but we do have some playmakers out there, especially in Dumervil and Miller rushing the passer.

Mogulseeker
08-07-2012, 08:00 PM
I'm sure Rahim Moore looks all-pro when he doesn't have to tackle.

We'll see what happens when the actual hitting starts.

Mogulseeker
08-07-2012, 08:03 PM
This would be great.

Adams was a good signing, he should be a solid starter/good depth player while he's here. But Moore has the much higher ceiling, a lot of people rated him highly coming out of college. He was billed as a ballhawk, would be great to have a Safety back there consistently making plays for the first time in a long while.

The last time Denver had a safety with more than a single interception over the course of a season was 2005, that's hopeless!!

If Manning and the offense clicks and start forcing teams to pass the ball a lot against us it'd be great to see us have a defense that consistently gets turnovers, it's been a long time.

With the likes of Doom, Miller, Ayers and hopefully now Wolfe and maybe another newcomer out there rushing the passer there should be opportunities for the secondary to make some plays. I don't think we're good enough at LB and DT to be a really top defense this year, but we do have some playmakers out there, especially in Dumervil and Miller rushing the passer.

I was wondering why he slipped to the early 2nd. Most reports I read had Rahim Moore as a mid-first round pick.

Rolandftw
08-07-2012, 08:15 PM
Well, a very limited training camp basically last year hurt a lot of young players. Obviously disappointed last year, but good to see that he's improving and hope it continues to be that way

enjolras
08-07-2012, 08:24 PM
Well, a very limited training camp basically last year hurt a lot of young players. Obviously disappointed last year, but good to see that he's improving and hope it continues to be that way

Moore looked like a beast last year until he laid the wood down on a Buffalo Bills receiver in the preseason and was flagged for it. He played far too careful after that.

Hopefully he has regained some of that agression this year.

Mediator12
08-07-2012, 08:29 PM
Let's be clear here, you are NOT going to learn how to tackle in the NFL. DC's did not have the time to implement tackling elements into practices before the New CBA. What you can do is be a much better play reader and break quicker on the playcall. that can be learned at this level.

Kid is not going to wake up and tackle better one day. Name one safety who has done that in the NFL. I can name half a dozen high round safeties who struggled to make tackles in college and still struggle today. Taylor Mays, Reggie Nelson, Brandon Meriweather, and Michael Griffin all come to mind. Great at one thing, but not a true safety in any sense of the word.

BroncoLifer
08-07-2012, 08:48 PM
I was wondering why he slipped to the early 2nd. Most reports I read had Rahim Moore as a mid-first round pick.

Looked great as a junior but regressed some in his senior year.

Dr. Broncenstein
08-07-2012, 08:56 PM
A safety who can't tackle hopes to tackle. Hooray, fluff!

Baba Booey
08-07-2012, 09:25 PM
No OTA's last year really screwed him, too. And they completely threw him into the fire right out of the gate.

Sounds like he was humbled and worked all offseason to get better. Still a very, very good prospect.

broncocalijohn
08-07-2012, 09:29 PM
Moore looked like a beast last year until he laid the wood down on a Buffalo Bills receiver in the preseason and was flagged for it. He played far too careful after that.

Hopefully he has regained some of that agression this year.

let us be honest here. His lack of tackling wasnt because he was afraid of getting flagged. Those normally happen on the timing of a receiver catching the ball. He was missing open field chances.
As for Moore improving this season, he could not be much worse once the season rolled around. I, and many, tend to forget someone can get better after their first season. He is a Bronco and therefore I will try to give him the benefit of the doubt ...for now.

Pony Boy
08-07-2012, 09:34 PM
Moore looked like a beast last year until he laid the wood down on a Buffalo Bills receiver in the preseason and was flagged for it. He played far too careful after that.

Hopefully he has regained some of that agression this year.

31242

Missouribronc
08-07-2012, 09:36 PM
31242

That's 100 percent serious.

He went Kenoy Kennedy on the Broncos after that fine.

cutthemdown
08-07-2012, 09:40 PM
I'm sure Rahim Moore looks all-pro when he doesn't have to tackle.

We'll see what happens when the actual hitting starts.

You can teach that though. You can't teach athleticism.

SoCalBronco
08-07-2012, 09:44 PM
Part of the tackling problem is that he's built like a CB rather than a safety and a thin CB at that. It is tough to make open field tackles against TEs and WRs that are much bigger than you, to say nothing of being forced to make tackles around the LOS as an in the box safety. He's not an in the box safety and they have to organize the defense in such a way that the safeties are not interchangeable. In other words, they don't rotate strong/free based on the formation. There is a free and there is a strong, no matter the look. Otherwise, they'll formation you into a situation where Moore has to slide down into the box and the other safety has to rotate up to the middle third in response to the motion and then they can run right at him at the perimeter. He's got to be a free safety, period, out of the box at virtually all times. In those two safety high looks, he's a half field safety who's job is to break up deep to intermediate passes with his range (Cover 2 and Cover 2 Man) and in a single high safety look, his job is to be that single high centerfielder who can break up anything between the hashes as well as outside post routes that end up between the boundary and the hashmarks (Cover 3 and Cover 1). Depending on how good he is man to man, they can play some quarters with him if he can read routes well and is able to either bracket the outside WR on the fly or play M-M on the inside reciever if its a vertical route. His job, in any event, is in pass coverage, based on his skillset. The expectation that this rail thin kid is going to make tackles in space after the catch is not realistic, unless he uses the sideline as an ally and can get a great angle on the reciever.

All that said, I'm glad to hear he is apparently improving, as most guys should in Year 2.

Drunken.Broncoholic
08-07-2012, 09:46 PM
Let's be clear here, you are NOT going to learn how to tackle in the NFL. DC's did not have the time to implement tackling elements into practices before the New CBA. What you can do is be a much better play reader and break quicker on the playcall. that can be learned at this level.

Kid is not going to wake up and tackle better one day. Name one safety who has done that in the NFL. I can name half a dozen high round safeties who struggled to make tackles in college and still struggle today. Taylor Mays, Reggie Nelson, Brandon Meriweather, and Michael Griffin all come to mind. Great at one thing, but not a true safety in any sense of the word.


This.

Anyone who watched him in college knows he could not tackle. He could very well go the way of taylor mays.

cutthemdown
08-07-2012, 09:55 PM
A safety who can't tackle hopes to tackle. Hooray, fluff!

I watched him a lot at UCLA. He really just needs to learn to not think he has to run full speed all the time. You make your first move wrong at full speed you can't get back in position. At UCLA they just let him run around and try to make big plays. And he did. They can work on having him concentrate on not just getting to the spot, but getting their under control to make a tackle. He will never be Dennis Smith though, those days are gone I think. He's more a tweener IMO. But he has ball skills I saw them live and in person more then once. I still think he ends up a solid starter for the Broncos.

Also I bet he makes an interception this yr at a key point to help win a game. Not just a pick in the stat line, I'm saying a big one, like when you think all is lost he steps up and get a huge pick.

I think he can be a Tyrone Braxton type defender once he gets schooled up a bit.

jsco70
08-08-2012, 06:39 AM
I pretty watched him exclusively at the scrimmage. There wasn't much action his way, but two plays in particular stand out.

1. Pass out into the left flat, Moore read the play well and was in good position. However, upon contact he wrapped up but dropped right to his knees. Tackling 101 in my book says to stay on your feet and drive through the ball carrier.
2. Run play straight up the middle, I do not remember who the ball carrier was. Moore ran straight towards the ball, RB cutback to his right, Moore did not breakdown and was washed out of the play.

I have no doubt he can excel in coverage, not sure he'll ever get there in regard to tackling. Hopefully he will improve.

Tombstone RJ
08-08-2012, 07:29 AM
Rahim is talented, if he wants to tackle (on any given play), he'll tackle. It may not be pretty but he can do it. In the NFL it comes down to "want" more the "can" IMHO.

Rabb
08-08-2012, 07:33 AM
I know it was the in vogue Mane thing to completely rip the kid a new a-hole last year, and he did struggle, but one positive play stood out I remember in a goal-line situation against New England (regular season game) where he closed incredibly well and made a play in space that prevented a touchdown. A lot of these kids are so athletic out of high school and even in college, that they don't learn how to tackle. Hopefully, Moore's improvement will be sustained throughout preseason. Right now, we talkin bout practice.

good post

Kaylore
08-08-2012, 07:43 AM
good post

Except for the "in vogue" in lieu of en vogue part...

Rabb
08-08-2012, 07:45 AM
Except for the "in vogue" in lieu of en vogue part...

you crafty SOB you

TheReverend
08-08-2012, 11:21 AM
Let's be clear here, you are NOT going to learn how to tackle in the NFL. DC's did not have the time to implement tackling elements into practices before the New CBA. What you can do is be a much better play reader and break quicker on the playcall. that can be learned at this level.

Kid is not going to wake up and tackle better one day. Name one safety who has done that in the NFL. I can name half a dozen high round safeties who struggled to make tackles in college and still struggle today. Taylor Mays, Reggie Nelson, Brandon Meriweather, and Michael Griffin all come to mind. Great at one thing, but not a true safety in any sense of the word.

Adjusting to the speed makes a significant difference. He'll never be Chuck Cecil vs the run, but he'll improve.

cutthemdown
08-08-2012, 11:32 AM
LOL tons of dbacks struggled rookie season and got better. The notion no safetys ever improve is pretty funny to me. And if you think they don't work on tackling at the NFL level you are crazy. His poor tackling due to poor positioning because he doesn't take his time analyzing a play. He just starts running all over the place trying to use his speed and range.

cutthemdown
08-08-2012, 11:33 AM
Moore's value will be as a center fielder, trying to get sideline to sideline and protecting the deep middle. He isn't built to be an in the box run stuffer.

TheReverend
08-08-2012, 11:44 AM
Moore's value will be as a center fielder, trying to get sideline to sideline and protecting the deep middle. He isn't built to be an in the box run stuffer.

The problem with that:

That center field player NEEDS to be able to CONSISTENTLY make the open field tackle or its going for 6.

underrated29
08-08-2012, 11:49 AM
he looked better and I really really want this kid to succeed but when I saw him in camp, nothing impressed me.

Mediator12
08-08-2012, 12:13 PM
LOL tons of dbacks struggled rookie season and got better. The notion no safetys ever improve is pretty funny to me. And if you think they don't work on tackling at the NFL level you are crazy. His poor tackling due to poor positioning because he doesn't take his time analyzing a play. He just starts running all over the place trying to use his speed and range.

OK. No one said that that I saw.

1. I said he could improve his postioning and reactions with film work, key recognition, and situational play call awareness.

2. I did say Safeties who struggle with making tackles in college rarely become solid tacklers in the NFL. Why? The NFL is a scheme league for coaches and they do not have the time and now can not have the Contact in pads due to the CBA to do live tackling drills.

3. As far as him running around too fast, that is poor diagnosis and a terrible trait in a safety. Its an over-reaction to not being comfortable with his responsibility and role in the play call versus the other teams play. It also leads to many missed tackles because he fails to funnel the player properly based on the play design. It also makes other players vulnerable to miss tackles because they do not trust him with his responsibility.

4. Defense in the NFL takes football intelligence, especially as a FS. That is his worst trait right now. He can improve drastically there, but until he figures out how to do his own job properly, there is no way he can set the whole secondary or audible if they get caught in a bad playcall. That is a major asset for a defense with DEN's paper pass rush ability.

I want the kid to get it, but all I am saying is hoping he gets it is not very likely event to happen based on similar careers of other NFL safeties who struggled with the same problem coming out of college.

baja
08-08-2012, 12:54 PM
OK. No one said that that I saw.

1. I said he could improve his postioning and reactions with film work, key recognition, and situational play call awareness.

2. I did say Safeties who struggle with making tackles in college rarely become solid tacklers in the NFL. Why? The NFL is a scheme league for coaches and they do not have the time and now can not have the Contact in pads due to the CBA to do live tackling drills.

3. As far as him running around too fast, that is poor diagnosis and a terrible trait in a safety. Its an over-reaction to not being comfortable with his responsibility and role in the play call versus the other teams play. It also leads to many missed tackles because he fails to funnel the player properly based on the play design. It also makes other players vulnerable to miss tackles because they do not trust him with his responsibility.

4. Defense in the NFL takes football intelligence, especially as a FS. That is his worst trait right now. He can improve drastically there, but until he figures out how to do his own job properly, there is no way he can set the whole secondary or audible if they get caught in a bad playcall. That is a major asset for a defense with DEN's paper pass rush ability.

I want the kid to get it, but all I am saying is hoping he gets it is not very likely event to happen based on similar careers of other NFL safeties who struggled with the same problem coming out of college.

What's wrong with the NFL scouting system that so often you hear, "We drafted so and so in the 2nd (or whatever) round and he is as dumb as a sack of rocks. Why can't thy get a read on the football intelligence of these players especially in positions where it really matters.

Tombstone RJ
08-08-2012, 01:14 PM
What's wrong with the NFL scouting system that so often you hear, "We drafted so and so in the 2nd (or whatever) round and he is as dumb as a sack of rocks. Why can't thy get a read on the football intelligence of these players especially in positions where it really matters.

You mean like the wonderlic test and face-to-face interviews?

Mogulseeker
08-08-2012, 03:34 PM
You mean like the wonderlic test and face-to-face interviews?

...college GPAs, college majors, SAT scores, anecdotal evidence...

baja
08-08-2012, 03:47 PM
You mean like the wonderlic test and face-to-face interviews?


So why are they always surprised when it turns out that a high draft pick is too stupid to play the position?

Tombstone RJ
08-08-2012, 03:50 PM
So why are they always surprised when it turns out that a high draft pick is too stupid to play the position?

who knows? Maybe the player interviews well, maybe he does ok on the wonderlic (which I don't think is a real good indication of football intelligence) and the team drafts the player based on things like upside?

Hard to know unless you are in the meeting rooms I guess. All we know is that some teams just draft better than others and that's probably because their FO knows what the hell it's doing. It ain't rocket science.

baja
08-08-2012, 03:52 PM
I would think it should be pretty easy to spot "to dumb to coach'..

lonestar
08-08-2012, 04:38 PM
So why are they always surprised when it turns out that a high draft pick is too stupid to play the position?

that usually meant that Tanahan made the pick..

lonestar
08-08-2012, 04:43 PM
who knows? Maybe the player interviews well, maybe he does ok on the wonderlic (which I don't think is a real good indication of football intelligence) and the team drafts the player based on things like upside?

Hard to know unless you are in the meeting rooms I guess. All we know is that some teams just draft better than others and that's probably because their FO knows what the hell it's doing. It ain't rocket science.

they also have scouting folks that have a clue on what the HC and position coaches need..

Kind of hard to do last year with YET another new regime..

Look at the really good teams BAL is one in particular Ozzie runs a tight ship hell the Giants are picking up great DL guys in the fourth,,

can't change DCs, HCs, GMs like most people change underwearr and expect it to be flawless..

baja
08-08-2012, 04:52 PM
that usually meant that Tanahan made the pick..

No it happens to most every team, granted some more than others.

Shanny has had more than his fair share.

What's amazing about Shanny is how much Shanahan the coach won given how much he was handicapped by Shanahan the GM.

Lestat
08-08-2012, 06:14 PM
So why are they always surprised when it turns out that a high draft pick is too stupid to play the position?

because every team that drafts a player sees something they can use and will overlook certain other issues.
but when the something they saw can't come out due to the other issues being the root cause it shocks them.

you see a physical marvel who played well in a non complicated system in college and you hope that the physical talent and work ethic will allow them to overcome the issues with mental makeup. doesn't always happen.

Broncos4Life
08-08-2012, 06:53 PM
This would be great.

Adams was a good signing, he should be a solid starter/good depth player while he's here. But Moore has the much higher ceiling, a lot of people rated him highly coming out of college. He was billed as a ballhawk, would be great to have a Safety back there consistently making plays for the first time in a long while.

The last time Denver had a safety with more than a single interception over the course of a season was 2005, that's hopeless!!

If Manning and the offense clicks and start forcing teams to pass the ball a lot against us it'd be great to see us have a defense that consistently gets turnovers, it's been a long time.

With the likes of Doom, Miller, Ayers and hopefully now Wolfe and maybe another newcomer out there rushing the passer there should be opportunities for the secondary to make some plays. I don't think we're good enough at LB and DT to be a really top defense this year, but we do have some playmakers out there, especially in Dumervil and Miller rushing the passer.

Brian Dawkins, 2009. But still, we have not had a ball hawk since the 80's/90's!

lonestar
08-08-2012, 07:13 PM
No it happens to most every team, granted some more than others.

Shanny has had more than his fair share.

What's amazing about Shanny is how much Shanahan the coach won given how much he was handicapped by Shanahan the GM.


While you are partially correct.. his winning seasons were squashed by the devastating losses in every playoff game save one after John retired..

I used to think the same way till I figured out jsut how bad his DAFTS and FA FUBAR were and then realy opened my eyes with the realization most those wins meant nothing the only wins that mean much are those in the post season.. where we got hammered by one and all..

lonestar
08-08-2012, 07:16 PM
Brian Dawkins, 2009. But still, we have not had a ball hawk since the 80's/90's!

John Lynch also patrolled the middle and caused loads of "drops"..

DEN was for years known for having great safeties.. But now well, IMO a very weak spot..

Perry1977
08-08-2012, 08:36 PM
He couldn't tackle in college, why does anyone expect him to be able to do it in the pros?

cutthemdown
08-08-2012, 10:57 PM
Moore is going to be a good player I think. I still have high hopes for him.

socalorado
08-09-2012, 06:35 AM
Part of the tackling problem is that he's built like a CB rather than a safety and a thin CB at that. It is tough to make open field tackles against TEs and WRs that are much bigger than you, to say nothing of being forced to make tackles around the LOS as an in the box safety. He's not an in the box safety and they have to organize the defense in such a way that the safeties are not interchangeable. In other words, they don't rotate strong/free based on the formation. There is a free and there is a strong, no matter the look. Otherwise, they'll formation you into a situation where Moore has to slide down into the box and the other safety has to rotate up to the middle third in response to the motion and then they can run right at him at the perimeter. He's got to be a free safety, period, out of the box at virtually all times. In those two safety high looks, he's a half field safety who's job is to break up deep to intermediate passes with his range (Cover 2 and Cover 2 Man) and in a single high safety look, his job is to be that single high centerfielder who can break up anything between the hashes as well as outside post routes that end up between the boundary and the hashmarks (Cover 3 and Cover 1). Depending on how good he is man to man, they can play some quarters with him if he can read routes well and is able to either bracket the outside WR on the fly or play M-M on the inside reciever if its a vertical route. His job, in any event, is in pass coverage, based on his skillset. The expectation that this rail thin kid is going to make tackles in space after the catch is not realistic, unless he uses the sideline as an ally and can get a great angle on the reciever.

All that said, I'm glad to hear he is apparently improving, as most guys should in Year 2.

The above post nails Moore.
He is a pure centerfield FS, and was never a 1st round talent a that.
Also, he has a HUGE attitude. Basically this guy thinks his shiat dont stink.