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RhymesayersDU
08-06-2012, 04:39 PM
Monday, August 6, 2012
Why San Diego will win AFC West
By KC Joyner
ESPN Insider

The general perception about the San Diego Chargers seems to be that their window of championship contention is closed. This mindset is so prevalent that ESPN.com AFC West blogger Bill Williamson recently noted, "The nation has become tired of the Chargers. [They have] been a perennial popular early Super Bowl pick but have fallen short of the playoffs the past two seasons. As a result, not much attention is being paid to the team anymore."

While the frustration with this club is certainly understandable, the Chargers shouldn't be dismissed as a playoff contender. In fact, the Chargers should be considered the favorites to win the AFC West.

Here are five reasons why:

Philip Rivers is the best quarterback in the division

The addition of Peyton Manning to the Denver offense has many believing that the Broncos have the best quarterback in the AFC West, but Rivers is still the king of passers in this division.

His perceived drop-off last year was nowhere near as precipitous as generally thought. As I pointed out in my 2012 fantasy football draft guide, Rivers still had over 600 pass attempts at a 7.9 yards per attempt (YPA) clip (ninth best in the league) and accounted for 28 touchdowns in 2011. His 216 vertical pass attempts tied for third with Cam Newton in that metric, and his 12.0 vertical YPA (VYPA, which accounts for passes thrown 11 or more yards downfield) was tied for ninth. He wasn't far from being an extremely productive quarterback.

Now contrast that to Manning's last full season in Indianapolis in 2010. His 9.7 VYPA in that campaign (ranked tied for 26th) was an anchor that dragged down his overall YPA (6.9, tied for 21st). Even if his four neck procedures get him back to that level, he will likely fall well short of posting top-flight vertical numbers -- and if his arm strength has faltered to any extent, it could be a huge problem for the Broncos.

The Chargers have the best set of receivers in the AFC West

San Diego did take a big personnel hit at wide receiver when it lost Vincent Jackson to free agency, but the Chargers are still stocked with quality pass-catchers.

It starts with Antonio Gates, whose dominance has been tempered the past couple of years because of injuries. Those physical ailments may be behind him at this point, according to Chargers Pro Bowl safety Eric Weddle. Weddle, who faces Gates every day in practice, recently said, "He is going to be the best tight end in the NFL this year ... He hasn't looked this good since my rookie season."

San Diego also has great vertical threats in Malcom Floyd (whose 13.1 VYPA ranked ninth out of the 31 wide receivers to tally at least 50 vertical targets last year) and Robert Meachem (14.4 VYPA on 35 vertical targets). Add Vincent Brown (who had a 9.5 YPA last year and has been impressive in training camp) and Eddie Royal (who was making quite a splash at camp prior to suffering a groin injury) and it makes for the deepest set of pass-catchers in this division.

The Chargers have the best running back in the division

Every team in the AFC West can make a case to have the dominant lead running back in this division. It just happens that Ryan Mathews' case is the strongest.

It starts with Mathews' 8.6-yard mark in the good blocking yards per attempt (GBYPA) category that measures rushing productivity on plays with good blocking (which is very roughly defined as when the offense doesn't allow the defense to do anything to disrupt a rush attempt). That total ranked tied for fourth among running backs with at least 90 good blocking rush attempts.

Now contrast that to Oakland. The Raiders have an explosive ball carrier in Darren McFadden, but McFadden has more significant injury concerns than Mathews. Plus, Mathews' GBYPA last year was slightly better than the 8.5 GBYPA McFadden posted in his dominant 2010 season, showing he can be just as productive.

The Chiefs have Jamaal Charles and Peyton Hillis, but Charles is rebounding from an ACL injury and Hillis was the least productive running back in the NFL in the GBYPA metric in 2011.

Denver has Willis McGahee and the fact that he was tied with Mathews in the GBYPA category last year makes this race close in that category. However, McGahee will be 31 years old in October and has posted only one season with more than 250 rushes/receptions over the past four years.

San Diego had the best draft of any team in the division

The Chargers posted a B-plus grade in Mel Kiper's 2012 NFL draft grades, a mark that was higher than the grade given to Denver (C-plus), Kansas City (C-plus) or Oakland (C-minus).

It isn't just the first impression that makes these picks stand out. Rivers recently had high praise for first-round pick Melvin Ingram, and early impressions of second-round pick Kendall Reyes have been extremely positive.

San Diego's defensive woes aren't nearly as bad as generally thought

San Diego's strength on offense might not be enough to vault them to a division title if the defense doesn't hold up its end of the bargain, which is something it didn't do in many ways last season. San Diego ranked tied for 25th in yards per play allowed, 22nd in points allowed and tied for 27th in passing touchdowns allowed.

But it wasn't all bad for the Chargers defense in 2011. Their 2.8 percent forced bad decision rate (a metric that gauges a defense's ability to generate mental errors by opposing quarterbacks) ranked 15th in the league and helped lead to 17 interceptions (ranked 13th).

San Diego also has a very good coverage player in Antoine Cason, as his 5.5 YPA-allowed mark ranked tied for 10th among cornerbacks.

Quentin Jammer, Cason's battery mate at cornerback, used to post numbers near Cason's level but fell off dramatically last season (11.5 YPA) in part because of some off-field personal issues. Now that those issues look to be resolved, it wouldn't be a surprise to see Jammer get back to his previous consistent coverage totals.

Add that level of improved secondary play with the aforementioned impact of Ingram and Reyes (who could work wonders for a pass rush that tallied only 31 sacks last year) and it should equal a much better performance on this side of the ball in 2012.

Combine those factors with the Chargers' motivation to prove the world wrong (something Williamson notes will work as a strong incentive for this team) and it gives San Diego the inside track to win the AFC West.

Tear it apart, OM.

Rulon Velvet Jones
08-06-2012, 05:21 PM
Stats are for losers.

Blueflame
08-06-2012, 05:25 PM
Same crap; different year. San Diego is always sports media's preseason pick to take the AFC West. They no longer have a "stacked" team built through season after season of top-5 draft picks; their O-line is suspect and behind a questionable O-line, Rivers also looks... less than stellar.

orangeatheist
08-06-2012, 05:27 PM
Ha! Ha! PERFECT!!

Pick the Chargers AGAIN so that we fly under the radar and swoop in to take the divisional crown. It'll be so much sweeter that way!

FISH
08-06-2012, 05:30 PM
Poor Eddie

Tombstone RJ
08-06-2012, 05:40 PM
Tear it apart, OM.

it was written by KC Joyner. So, that's just a start.

RhymesayersDU
08-06-2012, 05:41 PM
it was written by KC Joyner. So, that's just a start.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/14940697.jpg

Tombstone RJ
08-06-2012, 05:49 PM
He cited Mel Kiper's draft grades to strengthe his opinion? BOOM!

Orange_Beard
08-06-2012, 06:06 PM
What is this, the 3rd or 4th year in a row for this.......Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bacchus
08-06-2012, 06:07 PM
I thought it was a pretty good well thought out piece. I think the big issue for S.D. is one they will have to be able to stop Denver's running game and #2 I think their LBers are not a strenth and how will Denver's TEs fair in the matchup. I believe Denver's TE's will exploit the Charger's defense.

But I thought the article was pretty well thought out. Much better than a Burger Bill piece.

boltaneer
08-06-2012, 06:12 PM
Oh, come on. The Broncos are still the media favorite.

Tombstone RJ
08-06-2012, 06:19 PM
Oh, come on. The Broncos are still the media favorite.

nuh-uh!! It's all Sandy Eggo, all the time!

Agamemnon
08-06-2012, 06:26 PM
I have a hard time accepting the notion that Rivers is the best QB in the division after the way he played last season. Admittedly, Manning was out of the game altogether at the same time, so it's hard to really judge, but Rivers has never been better than Manning. I don't see any reason to think that has changed.

That said, I think this division is looking very unpredictable this season to be honest (other than the Raiders sucking--that's almost certain). The Broncos, Chargers, and Chiefs all have pieces in place, but none of them look even remotely like complete teams. So in the end it's probably going to boil down to who has the fewest injuries and the most lucky bounces.

BlueCrusher
08-06-2012, 06:26 PM
Why no mention of coaches? ???

errand
08-06-2012, 06:50 PM
And yet for some strange reason the NFL always makes us play the games.....someone should tell KC Joyner that.

gunns
08-06-2012, 07:02 PM
His perceived drop-off last year was nowhere near as precipitous as generally thought. As I pointed out in my 2012 fantasy football draft guide, Rivers still had over 600 pass attempts at a 7.9 yards per attempt (YPA) clip (ninth best in the league) and accounted for 28 touchdowns in 2011.

The only time he did anything last year was when I sat him on the bench in my FFL.

The Chargers have the best set of receivers in the AFC West


Malcolm Floyd has had the injury bug too. And if you want to use stats, Decker had more TD's playing with Tebow than Floyd playing with the "greatest passer" in the division. Gates is great, when he's playing. The others, in that system, are unknown. So the statement reeks of bias.

The Chargers have the best running back in the division


If Mathews is the best RB in the division, the division is in trouble.

Finally, and of utmost importance, they still have Norv.

Captain 'Dre
08-06-2012, 07:09 PM
nuh-uh!! It's all Sandy Eggo, all the time!

Not with Manning on board in Denver. That by itself has 90% of the media calling for a repeat of 1st place in the AFCW.

Captain 'Dre
08-06-2012, 07:10 PM
That said, I think this division is looking very unpredictable this season to be honest (other than the Raiders sucking--that's almost certain). The Broncos, Chargers, and Chiefs all have pieces in place, but none of them look even remotely like complete teams. So in the end it's probably going to boil down to who has the fewest injuries and the most lucky bounces.

Pretty fair assessment.

Kaylore
08-06-2012, 07:30 PM
Oh, come on. The Broncos are still the media favorite.

According to who? I haven't seen very many people picking the Broncos. In fact an analyst on ESPN a few days ago said we wouldn't even have a winning record this year.


As for this analysis, there isn't much to it. I agree that Rivers is going to be better than he was last year. After that, the points fall apart.

He asserts that the Chargers have the best draft and that draft is going to help them. I'm sorry, but how can he know this? He then lists weaknesses in fantasy that all the Charger's division rivals will have to overcome. I'm sorry but fantasy stats are a pretty poor indicator of how many games a team will win. I like picking QB's with bad defenses because they throw for more yards playing catch up. That doesn't mean they win a lot of games, though.

His final point is the Chargers will play harder to "prove the world wrong" about them. Really? THAT is what's finally going to push the Chargers over the edge? All these seasons they didn't care, but now that some people say their window is closed NOW they are going to "try" to win games? Like they weren't trying before?

I am open to the idea that the Chargers are going to be resurgent this season. However I see them as the Eagles in the early 2000's where the other three teams were kind of muddling around in the NFC East and McNabb and company just kept getting chances on account of the division being so terrible. That's the Chargers for me. And now the rest of the division is catching up to them and they've lost a lot of talent. Rivers will always keep them as a threat to win any game, but I think they need some new good players before they can turn things around.

boltaneer
08-06-2012, 08:01 PM
Most media heads know as much football as your average message board poster. Unfortunately, they get all sorts of credibility just because they work for ESPN or they have a blog, etc.

Even a lot of the (ex-player) analysts don't come off very well. You can probably count the number of analysts in the media that seem to be worth listening to on one hand.

KC Joyner definitely falls into the less credible group. But I do think the Chargers have made a lot of great moves this off season. :)

Tim
08-06-2012, 08:01 PM
"The Chargers have the best running back in the division"



I made it all the way to this.

srphoenix
08-06-2012, 08:02 PM
NORV TURNER

cmhargrove
08-06-2012, 08:05 PM
"The Chargers have the best running back in the division"



I made it all the way to this.

Seriously, I almost choked (like the Chargers...).

The Chargers could very well win the division, but i suspect they will really miss Vincent Jackson. When you watch the film, much of Rivers' vaunted "deep passing game" has been chucking it up for Jackson. Jackson makes a huge difference downfield, and it will decrease Rivers' yards per pass average.

maher_tyler
08-06-2012, 08:22 PM
NORV TURNER

It's funny how when these ESPN "experts" predict SD will win the division..some how they forget that their coach is Norv Turner...

Captain 'Dre
08-06-2012, 08:26 PM
It's funny how when these ESPN "experts" predict SD will win the division..some how they forget that their coach is Norv Turner...

They never wrote off a Josh McDaniels team just because he was the coach, either.

mwill07
08-06-2012, 08:42 PM
there's a lot of made-up stats here.

VYPA, GBYPA, forced bad decision rate, and kiper draft grades...wow.

lonestar
08-06-2012, 08:48 PM
NORV TURNER

was going to say this but you beat me to it..

:thumbs:

LRtagger
08-06-2012, 08:58 PM
http://igglesnest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Joyner.jpg?ba4058

McDman
08-06-2012, 09:02 PM
I could see them doing it. I really think the 2013 season is where we will make a run if we do.

Broncos4Life
08-06-2012, 09:08 PM
Seriously, I almost choked (like the Chargers...).

The Chargers could very well win the division, but i suspect they will really miss Vincent Jackson. When you watch the film, much of Rivers' vaunted "deep passing game" has been chucking it up for Jackson. Jackson makes a huge difference downfield, and it will decrease Rivers' yards per pass average.

This what I said a month ago and a poster came along....cant remember who, and basically said that VJ wasnt the reason for the Chargers being able to go deep, and that it was Phillis. I completely agree with you. All those 'highlights" of the deep variety were to VJ. I don't think there is a player that can take his place.

Rolandftw
08-06-2012, 10:07 PM
The Chargers problems are mainly playing down to their competition. They might be the most talented team in the division, but they can't afford to not get up for all of their opponents. At times, they look like a championship caliber team and at other times they look like one of the worst ten teams in the league. Bring consistency and they will be a tough team to beat out. Best draft in the division as well, so that should definitely help them out

Xenos
08-06-2012, 10:11 PM
This what I said a month ago and a poster came along....cant remember who, and basically said that VJ wasnt the reason for the Chargers being able to go deep, and that it was Phillis. I completely agree with you. All those 'highlights" of the deep variety were to VJ. I don't think there is a player that can take his place.

He's not though. Norv's offense is built on the deep pass and Rivers is the perfect QB for it, which still existed even when VJ was gone for most of the 2010 season. Did you think Rivers magically had 4700 yards during that season on yard after catch alone? It's why SD went after someone like Meacheam because he has that deep threat capability.

boltaneer
08-06-2012, 10:15 PM
This what I said a month ago and a poster came along....cant remember who, and basically said that VJ wasnt the reason for the Chargers being able to go deep, and that it was Phillis. I completely agree with you. All those 'highlights" of the deep variety were to VJ. I don't think there is a player that can take his place.

Malcom Floyd says hi.

Doggcow
08-06-2012, 10:32 PM
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/391562_10100473126392983_1163426509_n.jpg

KCStud
08-06-2012, 10:34 PM
Broncos are the media darlings. Everything on ESPN is Peyton Manning and Tim Tebow.

NFL Live segment over the AFC West was 90% Peyton Manning, 7% Tim Tebow, 1% Chargers, 1% Chiefs and 1% Raiders.

Doggcow
08-06-2012, 10:35 PM
Broncos are the media darlings. Everything on ESPN is Peyton Manning and Tim Tebow.

NFL Live segment over the AFC West was 90% Peyton Manning, 7% Tim Tebow, 1% Chargers, 1% Chiefs and 1% Raiders.

http://redriverpak.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/crying_baby.jpg

Rolandftw
08-06-2012, 11:02 PM
Broncos are the media darlings. Everything on ESPN is Peyton Manning and Tim Tebow.

NFL Live segment over the AFC West was 90% Peyton Manning, 7% Tim Tebow, 1% Chargers, 1% Chiefs and 1% Raiders.

It doesn't really have as much to do with the Broncos as it does Manning. If a first ballot HOF signed anywhere else with the same questions about his impact/health, they'd be the main topic of discussion as well.

There's a lot of people that aren't sold on the Broncos, and don't think they'll be much better then they were last year record wise.

Jetmeck
08-07-2012, 03:25 AM
Broncos are the media darlings. Everything on ESPN is Peyton Manning and Tim Tebow.

NFL Live segment over the AFC West was 90% Peyton Manning, 7% Tim Tebow, 1% Chargers, 1% Chiefs and 1% Raiders.

Chiefs left out again just like when Peyton would not return their calls.......BOOHOO

That what happens when your team has sucked ASS for so long....................

cutthemdown
08-07-2012, 04:03 AM
AFC west literally up for grabs again. No clear front runner or cellar dweller.

TheChamp24
08-07-2012, 06:03 AM
That was a pure piece of garbage I read. First off, Rivers was trash last year. He had a lot of passing yards and 27 TD's, but 20 interceptions? Yikes. Just wasn't that good last year.
And I think losing a Pro Bowl WR will hurt, how much? Don't know.

I love these new stats, I got a good chuckle out of them too. Good blocking yards per attempt, awesome lol. Also ASSUMING guys drafted perform, lol.

Now, I know Manning is a big IF. However, that garbage I read really passes for journalism today? Its like, lets look at the most acute stats to try to make this one team seem better than all the others.

socalorado
08-07-2012, 06:09 AM
Malcom Floyd says hi.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UlVzFCgILLw/Tt0jmt3LTbI/AAAAAAAAAuw/3ui2UFytZ9A/s400/norv-turner.jpg

cutthemdown
08-07-2012, 06:32 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UlVzFCgILLw/Tt0jmt3LTbI/AAAAAAAAAuw/3ui2UFytZ9A/s400/norv-turner.jpg

After that the owner told him probably not a good idea to leave an open tube of super glue in his shirt pocket.

DivineLegion
08-07-2012, 07:12 AM
Using fantasy football as metric of overall QB play is like using madden, it just destroys the credibility of the writer. Having the audacity to say that Phillip Rivers is better than Peyton Manning because of YPA and TDs, without considering accuracy and situation demonstrates a nieve statistic centric view. This is BS.

Punisher
08-07-2012, 07:20 AM
NORV TURNER

http://memecrunch.com/meme/4ES0/norv-turner-meme/image.png

Only this man has the POWER to make a Super Bowl team Mediocre I tip my hat to this man Thank you Mr. Turner for making the Chargers so sooo whats the word I'm looking for ......

Kaylore
08-07-2012, 07:27 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-UlVzFCgILLw/Tt0jmt3LTbI/AAAAAAAAAuw/3ui2UFytZ9A/s400/norv-turner.jpg

ROFL!

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-07-2012, 07:29 AM
I thought it was a pretty good well thought out piece. I think the big issue for S.D. is one they will have to be able to stop Denver's running game and #2 I think their LBers are not a strenth and how will Denver's TEs fair in the matchup. I believe Denver's TE's will exploit the Charger's defense.

But I thought the article was pretty well thought out. Much better than a Burger Bill piece.

True, but to be better than a Bill Williamson piece, all you have to do is do a little research and than write better than a drunk scribbling on a bar napkin.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
08-07-2012, 07:32 AM
He's not though. Norv's offense is built on the deep pass and Rivers is the perfect QB for it, which still existed even when VJ was gone for most of the 2010 season. Did you think Rivers magically had 4700 yards during that season on yard after catch alone? It's why SD went after someone like Meacheam because he has that deep threat capability.

Has Meachem learned to catch yet?

Captain 'Dre
08-07-2012, 08:38 AM
The Chargers problems are mainly playing down to their competition. They might be the most talented team in the division, but they can't afford to not get up for all of their opponents. At times, they look like a championship caliber team and at other times they look like one of the worst ten teams in the league. Bring consistency and they will be a tough team to beat out. Best draft in the division as well, so that should definitely help them out

A lot of truth to this.

Just look at their final three games last season.

Stomped the Ravens

Got embarrassed by the Lions.

Beat the 'win and yer in' Raiders convincingly.

The game against the Lions, which the Chargers HAD to win to keep their playoff hopes alive, wasn't just a loss... it was a BEATDOWN.

Vegas makes a lot of money off people who think they know which Charger team is going to show up in a given week.

Captain 'Dre
08-07-2012, 08:43 AM
Malcom Floyd says hi.

The Chargers should be able to keep a pretty strong cluster of wideouts and tight ends from the pool they have on their camp roster. Receiving won't be their Achilles' Heel... pass protection will.

ludo21
08-07-2012, 09:09 AM
Chargers will get 9-10 wins this year, I see the whole divison being very close actually.

DENVERDUI55
08-07-2012, 09:48 AM
Malcom Floyd says hi.

Did he pull his hamstring saying hi?

Rohirrim
08-07-2012, 09:56 AM
All I saw in that piece was, "May, might, maybe."

Ambiguous
08-07-2012, 10:06 AM
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/you-got-served-kc-joyner-is-a-tool/

Great read.

Rohirrim
08-07-2012, 10:26 AM
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/you-got-served-kc-joyner-is-a-tool/

Great read.

Ha! I LOLed. Thanks.

Ironlung
08-07-2012, 10:32 AM
LOL @ S.D. having the best back in the division.

Kaylore
08-07-2012, 10:43 AM
http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/you-got-served-kc-joyner-is-a-tool/

Great read.
That is funny.

Tombstone RJ
08-07-2012, 11:26 AM
It's really to a point that there are no good sports writers anymore. The interwebz has watered down the talent as the exposure/audience has skyrocketed from the web. Factor in the intense competition to be relevant and you end up with half-assed commentaries like this crap ESPN is shoveling.

I really would have more respect for Joyner and those of his ilk if he just said "I think the Chargers will win the AFCW because I just think they are more talented and I like the team." And be done with it. I can respect his opinion, he doesn't have to try and dazzle everyone with a bunch of crap analysis.

KCStud
08-07-2012, 03:53 PM
And if Rivers goes back to his 30 TD 13 INT form like he was 3 years in a row before last season? That might help.

SonOfLe-loLang
08-07-2012, 03:57 PM
It's really to a point that there are no good sports writers anymore. The interwebz has watered down the talent as the exposure/audience has skyrocketed from the web. Factor in the intense competition to be relevant and you end up with half-assed commentaries like this crap ESPN is shoveling.

I really would have more respect for Joyner and those of his ilk if he just said "I think the Chargers will win the AFCW because I just think they are more talented and I like the team." And be done with it. I can respect his opinion, he doesn't have to try and dazzle everyone with a bunch of crap analysis.

I dont think its watered down talent as much as keeping up with a 24 hour news cycle.

boltaneer
08-07-2012, 04:09 PM
Rivers struggled most of last year because we had a human turnstile at LT until Gaither was signed. After Dielman went down and Gaither and Green took over the left side of the o-line, Rivers went back to putting up big numbers to finish up the season.

Gaither's health is a concern right now and not sure if the backups are any better than the scrub they had out there last year (Dombrowski) so we'll see.

Broncos4Life
08-07-2012, 05:49 PM
He's not though. Norv's offense is built on the deep pass and Rivers is the perfect QB for it, which still existed even when VJ was gone for most of the 2010 season. Did you think Rivers magically had 4700 yards during that season on yard after catch alone? It's why SD went after someone like Meacheam because he has that deep threat capability.

Again, I know norv runs it and Phillis operates! And yes he is
magical! Just watch him. Bottom line, I don't believe in Meachem, his
Durability, and therefore I think that this Deep passing attack will take a hit. And this 2010 season you speak of had a better OL to protect PR, not to mention Sproles as an underneath Yac guy that teams had to worry about.

Sorry try again.

Xenos
08-07-2012, 11:37 PM
Again, I know norv runs it and Phillis operates! And yes he is
magical! Just watch him. Bottom line, I don't believe in Meachem, his
Durability, and therefore I think that this Deep passing attack will take a hit. And this 2010 season you speak of had a better OL to protect PR, not to mention Sproles as an underneath Yac guy that teams had to worry about.

Sorry try again.
We had guys like Seyi Tutu and Legadu Nannee go big in 2010 with Rivers. I think even if Meachem isn't completely healthy, he'll still provide that deep threat better than Tutu and Nanae did anyways.

As for the OL question, we had Dombrowski as the Left Tackle for the first quarter of the season before McNeill came back. It's a wash this season if anything.

cutthemdown
08-07-2012, 11:49 PM
I wouldn't count on the AFC west being pretty just yet. I still think 9-7 could win the thing. Raiders if McFadden stays healthy can win 9-10 games IMO. If he isn't then that goes way down. They would need the defense to play above their heads but really the whole division up for grabs. If all KC's players come back strong, Charles, Berry, and the FA tackle Winston is worth the money they could make some noise. Chargers IMO still a dangerous team with Gates and Rivers. If its true Gates on a mission then they division in trouble. Great players on a mission can be really dangerous and I do think Rivers and Gates are great players.

But Manning also on a mission. Can't feel good to all the sudden have people saying your little brother is better, you are washed up, one injury filled yr and your team ships you out for Andrew Luck.

He's on a mission also and he plays the most important position. I really think Broncos have a slight edge. Not a lot but a little one.

cutthemdown
08-07-2012, 11:53 PM
We had guys like Seyi Tutu and Legadu Nannee go big in 2010 with Rivers. I think even if Meachem isn't completely healthy, he'll still provide that deep threat better than Tutu and Nanae did anyways.

As for the OL question, we had Dombrowski as the Left Tackle for the first quarter of the season before McNeill came back. It's a wash this season if anything.

Meachum isn't as good as Jackson though. I think Flloyd has to step up for offnse to click.

cutthemdown
08-07-2012, 11:55 PM
Chargers have some players to have a really potent offense IMO. Mathews will have to come through with no help from Tolbert, and Meachum and Floyd will have to step up. If the rumor Gates on fire and poised to reclaim his spot as the elite TE then yeah they could be really dangerous.

Don't think a whole lot of the pass rush or run defense though. They have some nice situational pass rushers but no guys like Doom or Miller.

DENVERDUI55
08-08-2012, 12:52 AM
Meacham couldn't produce at a high level against #3 and 4 CB's so I don't fear him much in SD against #1 and 2 CB's. If you can't be a stud with Brees you probably won't with anyone.

mwill07
08-08-2012, 05:44 AM
Meacham couldn't produce at a high level against #3 and 4 CB's so I don't fear him much in SD against #1 and 2 CB's. If you can't be a stud with Brees you probably won't with anyone.

good point - Meachem was the #3 WR last year, and had fewer receptions than the TE and 2 RB's. Yes, he is a good deep threat but hasn't consistently been an all-around WR. I suppose SD has Gates to make those possession-keeping, chain-moving catches, but that's a lot of eggs for an often injured, 32 year old TE to carry.

Honestly though, I think they will miss Tolbert the most. Turner loves to run his screen game, and I'm not sure who will be picking up the slack here.

Raider9175
08-08-2012, 05:53 AM
Tear it apart, OM.

It just as laughable that Denver Broncos are going to win the AFC west. Both the Chargers and Broncos will be fighting for who drafts first in the draft.

The Afc West is a two team race. Raiders and Chiefs. One of those two teams will be the AFc West champs.

Bacchus
08-08-2012, 06:03 AM
It just as laughable that Denver Broncos are going to win the AFC west. Both the Chargers and Broncos will be fighting for who drafts first in the draft.

The Afc West is a two team race. Raiders and Chiefs. One of those two teams will be the AFc West champs.

you're a smart one. :hitself::loser::nutkick

I imagine after the Raiders start 0-2 or 1-3 we will not hear from you until next summer's proclamation of excellance.

DENVERDUI55
08-08-2012, 08:52 AM
It just as laughable that Denver Broncos are going to win the AFC west. Both the Chargers and Broncos will be fighting for who drafts first in the draft.

The Afc West is a two team race. Raiders and Chiefs. One of those two teams will be the AFc West champs.

You think pick 6 Palmer can win this division? He was a good qb til he got his knee busted up but its more likely he just caught lightning in a bottle for 2 seasons.

Ironlung
08-08-2012, 10:26 AM
It just as laughable that Denver Broncos are going to win the AFC west. Both the Chargers and Broncos will be fighting for who drafts first in the draft.

The Afc West is a two team race. Raiders and Chiefs. One of those two teams will be the AFc West champs.

This post is hilarious! Oak and KC will be battling...for last place. Mark it down.

So you think either the Broncos or Chargers will be THE WORST team in the whole league!?!? Thats one of the most laughable claims a raider fan has ever made! & thats saying a lot.

In just one post you've managed to prove you know absolutely nothing about football...Congrats

Rohirrim
08-08-2012, 10:44 AM
you're a smart one. :hitself::loser::nutkick

I imagine after the Raiders start 0-2 or 1-3 we will not hear from you until next summer's proclamation of excellance.

Exactly.

boltaneer
08-08-2012, 10:48 AM
good point - Meachem was the #3 WR last year, and had fewer receptions than the TE and 2 RB's. Yes, he is a good deep threat but hasn't consistently been an all-around WR. I suppose SD has Gates to make those possession-keeping, chain-moving catches, but that's a lot of eggs for an often injured, 32 year old TE to carry.

Honestly though, I think they will miss Tolbert the most. Turner loves to run his screen game, and I'm not sure who will be picking up the slack here.

Meachem hasn't lived up to his potential yet but in defense of him, there were too many weapons in New Orleans to feed everyone the ball. This is the year for him to shut up his critics. But he doesn't have to be an all around receiver. Jackson was a one trick pony being a deep threat and that's Meachem's claim to fame as well. They have guys like Brown, Royal and Floyd to fill the other voids.

Everyone thinks the deep ball will be in trouble, but if you look at Jackson and Floyd, they were equally as productive on "bombs" thrown over 40 yards.

Mathews is more dangerous on screens than Tolbert, easily. Honestly, Ronnie Brown is a great replacement for Tolbert. Different kind of back but a proven dependable RB. Tolbert had the same fumbling issues as Mathews. He was just more durable than him.

DENVERDUI55
08-08-2012, 10:58 AM
Meachem hasn't lived up to his potential yet but in defense of him, there were too many weapons in New Orleans to feed everyone the ball. This is the year for him to shut up his critics. But he doesn't have to be an all around receiver. Jackson was a one trick pony being a deep threat and that's Meachem's claim to fame as well. They have guys like Brown, Royal and Floyd to fill the other voids.

Everyone thinks the deep ball will be in trouble, but if you look at Jackson and Floyd, they were equally as productive on "bombs" thrown over 40 yards.

Mathews is more dangerous on screens than Tolbert, easily. Honestly, Ronnie Brown is a great replacement for Tolbert. Different kind of back but a proven dependable RB. Tolbert had the same fumbling issues as Mathews. He was just more durable than him.

He should of been a lot more productive in an Offense where their QB just smashed the single season yardage record. There are plenty of #3 WR who have produced 1000 yards. He could of and should of taken over for Lance Moore.

Xenos
08-08-2012, 10:58 AM
Meachum isn't as good as Jackson though. I think Flloyd has to step up for offnse to click.

That's not what I'm saying though to the other poster. I'm saying that our deep game will still be there even without Jackson. In no way do I think that Meachem is better than Jackson at this point. Now whether he ends up thriving in this offense more than Jackson is another question altogether (one that I don't know but hope for the best).

The area we may miss VJ is redzone, though he wasn't the same after 2009.

boltaneer
08-08-2012, 12:38 PM
He should of been a lot more productive in an Offense where their QB just smashed the single season yardage record. There are plenty of #3 WR who have produced 1000 yards. He could of and should of taken over for Lance Moore.

Colston is their #1 WR, but Jimmy Graham is really the #1 target. Sproles is used heavily in the passing game. They don't really have a number two WR. The way that offense runs, they distribute the ball everywhere (Meachem, Moore, Henderson, Thomas).

Not saying that means Meachem will have a breakout season (though I think he will. :) ) Right now he's just a proven #2 receiver that will have to prove he's more than that.

And for all the passing the Saints do, they don't air it out deep like the Chargers do. That's Norv's style. You don't see the Saints receivers with the kind of YPC like the Chargers have. It's not even close.

The only reason I can see the Charger's deep passing game struggling is because of the issues at LT. If they're just being cautious with Gaither right now and he turns out to be fine, Rivers will be airing it out like he always does. If Gaither's health is in question, Norv has shown he is stubborn to adjust his gameplan and I think the passing game will struggle like it did last year with the o-line issues that they had.

Broncos4Life
08-08-2012, 01:48 PM
Meacham couldn't produce at a high level against #3 and 4 CB's so I don't fear him much in SD against #1 and 2 CB's. If you can't be a stud with Brees you probably won't with anyone.

This.

privers97
08-16-2012, 04:30 PM
Same crap; different year. San Diego is always sports media's preseason pick to take the AFC West. They no longer have a "stacked" team built through season water delivery san diego (http://waterable.com/california/san%20diego-ca) after season of top-5 draft picks; their O-line is suspect and behind a questionable O-line, Rivers also looks... less than stellar.

i always thought the chargers were overrated. they're always ranked so high on paper but always fall through in reality

LRtagger
08-16-2012, 07:12 PM
Holy crafty spam

ZONA
08-17-2012, 12:27 AM
Didn't Mathews break his collar bone or something like that? How is he the best back A) when he's hurt and not even on the field B) I think he's been hurt more then he's been healthy. He's flashed moments but hardly anything substantial due to injuries. Cmon now. I'll take our running game vs the Chuggers running game any day for the week.

Bacillus Anthracis
08-17-2012, 06:16 AM
Stats are for losers.

But even those stats are limp. They had to wade through some pretty obscure **** to get those and then failed to point out what to what degree those stats have on wins and losses. As a matter of fact, they appear to be marginal at best because SD didn't win the division last year, even with those totally awesome and stellar stats.

And never mind the horrible defense. We'll just pretend it wasn't bad. And we also won't mention the fact that Norv is still their head coach or that Ryan Mattews is out for the first few weeks of the season or that blahblahblah.

broncocalijohn
08-17-2012, 08:41 AM
Stats are for losers.

So true. Maybe it should have been written:
"Why the Chargers will have the best fantasy football players in the division"

All I know is that stats stop when a player gets injured again. We had Cutler who would give us stats but couldn't score once we got inside the 20. A team also needs heart and good coaching, does Joyner have a lame stat for that too?

This looked like something out of Bleacher Report or Nerdsonsports.com .

Vertical yards caught or something like that? COme on , lame!

DENVERDUI55
08-18-2012, 11:24 PM
Vincent Brown has a broken ankle. Another hit to the best mediocre team of all time. I actually expected bog numbers out of him this year.

gunns
08-19-2012, 06:57 AM
And as articles are pointing out this morning, the Chargers survived Rivers picks to win this preseason contest. Rivers seems to be taking up where he left off last year.

cutthemdown
08-19-2012, 09:19 AM
Vincent Brown has a broken ankle. Another hit to the best mediocre team of all time. I actually expected bog numbers out of him this year.

Huge blow to them in back to back weeks. First Mathews, now Brown.

cutthemdown
08-19-2012, 09:21 AM
Colston is their #1 WR, but Jimmy Graham is really the #1 target. Sproles is used heavily in the passing game. They don't really have a number two WR. The way that offense runs, they distribute the ball everywhere (Meachem, Moore, Henderson, Thomas).

Not saying that means Meachem will have a breakout season (though I think he will. :) ) Right now he's just a proven #2 receiver that will have to prove he's more than that.

And for all the passing the Saints do, they don't air it out deep like the Chargers do. That's Norv's style. You don't see the Saints receivers with the kind of YPC like the Chargers have. It's not even close.

The only reason I can see the Charger's deep passing game struggling is because of the issues at LT. If they're just being cautious with Gaither right now and he turns out to be fine, Rivers will be airing it out like he always does. If Gaither's health is in question, Norv has shown he is stubborn to adjust his gameplan and I think the passing game will struggle like it did last year with the o-line issues that they had.

Losing Brown won't help matters. Chargers running out of skill players. But the rest of the division has problems also. Really not one complete team.

Vegas_Bronco
08-19-2012, 09:32 AM
Didnt red...although I stayed at the coronado, nice place...far from the stadium where they throw the crap balls.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-19-2012, 11:30 PM
The Chargers and Chiefs are both better than the Broncos on paper.

But if Manning is 90 percent of what he was, the Broncos are a better team than both.

boltaneer
08-20-2012, 12:49 AM
Are the Chargers really better than the Broncos on paper?

Where are they stronger at? WR. TE. SS. FB? lol

Dexter
08-20-2012, 02:09 AM
Are the Chargers really better than the Broncos on paper?

Where are they stronger at? WR. TE. SS. FB? lol

Probably TE if Gates is back to his old self. SS for sure, and PR/KR. You guys are going to love Royal if they use him properly on special teams. Other than that I'm really not sure. I'd be willing to call it even on the WR position for now. That could go either way. RB if Mathews is healthy? I really like McGahee again this year though, and Hillman may be good if he can ever stay on the field.


So this is how I'd boil it down for now. Until we see more, these are just the best guesses.

QB: Advantage Broncos. No disrespect to Rivers, he's a great QB if he cuts down on his turnovers this year.
WR: Even
O-Line: Broncos
RB: Chargers
TE: Chargers

Pass Rushers: Denver- though Philips is good, and I loved Ingram coming out of the draft.
Rest of D-Line: Even?
SS: Chargers
FS: Even?
CBs: Broncos

I mean, this is all just opinion of course. But I'm not sure how Bob can say that you guys clearly have the best roster. Seems pretty even and debatable to me.

I know everyone gushes about how great the chiefs are top to bottom too except at QB. And they do have GREAT talent, but I don't think that any part of their roster with the exception of Safety and maybe linebacker, is head and shoulders above what the Broncos have. Although, I'd say Von evens that up a bit. They have a more proven WR in Bowe that finally decided to show up to camp, but we have just as much potential at reciever as they do.

Generally, I think its safe to say that its going to be a close race. I just don't think the Raiders will have the fire power and overall defense to keep up. But stranger things have happened.

SPORTSWRITER
08-20-2012, 06:10 AM
Bill Williamson's opinions, even as a Denver Post reporter, always left/leave a lot to be desired, IMO. I predict the Chargers to finish second, behind Denver. After SD, KC, and the Raiders will finish LAST!

broncosteven
08-20-2012, 10:55 AM
... But I do think the Chargers have made a lot of great moves this off season. :)

Their best move (for us anyway) was keeping Norv. No matter who you get talent wise they still need to take direction from Norv.

I like our chances better even with our brutal schedule.

boltaneer
08-20-2012, 11:23 AM
Their best move (for us anyway) was keeping Norv. No matter who you get talent wise they still need to take direction from Norv.

I like our chances better even with our brutal schedule.

Everytime I get a little optimistic about this team, I always remember this. :cuss:

boltaneer
08-20-2012, 11:29 AM
And as articles are pointing out this morning, the Chargers survived Rivers picks to win this preseason contest. Rivers seems to be taking up where he left off last year.

Rivers and Meachem are obviously not on the same page yet.

"Robert Meachem has been targeted three times through two Chargers preseason games, and two have been intercepted."

Meachem had burned Carr but Rivers just underthrew it. I guess he's not used to the speed of Meachem yet. :flower:

The second interception the other night was totally on Vincent Brown. Went right off his hands.

400HZ
08-20-2012, 12:59 PM
Our injury situation sucks right now. Not just Mathews and Brown - two playmakers - but Jared Gaither has barely practiced and our O line has zero depth. The preseason has made me feel a lot better about our defense, but the offense is starting to scare me.

boltaneer
08-20-2012, 04:10 PM
Our injury situation sucks right now. Not just Mathews and Brown - two playmakers - but Jared Gaither has barely practiced and our O line has zero depth. The preseason has made me feel a lot better about our defense, but the offense is starting to scare me.

Yeah the injuries are mounting up on offense.

Now it looks like the defense will be a nice improvement but the offense will take a step back. They can never get both going at once.

Always something with this team...

Kaylore
08-20-2012, 05:18 PM
Are the Chargers really better than the Broncos on paper?

Where are they stronger at? WR. TE. SS. FB? lol

I think a lot of your starters are better, though not by a lot in every case, but then your depth is pretty bad. Honestly the only team in the division with worse depth is the Raiders, who are a sprained ankle away from being awful.

boltaneer
08-20-2012, 05:21 PM
I think a lot of your starters are better, though not by a lot in every case, but then your depth is pretty bad. Honestly the only team in the division with worse depth is the Raiders, who are a sprained ankle away from being awful.

Hmm. I think just the opposite actually.

I think you're overrating a lot of the starters but the depth is actually much better than it's been in past years. (A number of the starters from past years are now backups.)

broncosteven
08-20-2012, 07:15 PM
The Chargers and Chiefs are both better than the Broncos on paper.

But if Manning is 90 percent of what he was, the Broncos are a better team than both.

Too bad that is on Toilet Paper.

DENVERDUI55
11-01-2012, 10:44 AM
Tear it apart, OM.

Good Job Mr Joyner. Rivers as the best QB is a joke. At this point I'm not sure he is better than Palmer who I have been down on for awhile. Rivers sure has fallen off quick.

broncocalijohn
11-01-2012, 10:57 AM
It just as laughable that Denver Broncos are going to win the AFC west. Both the Chargers and Broncos will be fighting for who drafts first in the draft.

The Afc West is a two team race. Raiders and Chiefs. One of those two teams will be the AFc West champs.

lol! Funny how this moron has not been back since the season started and when we kicked his team's ass.

Br0nc0Buster
11-01-2012, 11:07 AM
Lets see so he claims Rivers is the best qb in the division
SD has the best WR core in the division
Mathews is the best RB in the division
And SD had the best draft in the division

Fail does not even begin to describe Joyner