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View Full Version : Broncos could move Franklin to guard


BMarsh615
07-28-2012, 03:35 AM
Per Legwold. Would love to see Franklin replacing Beadles and having Ryan Harris back at RT. The Kuper and Franklin tandem is pretty good in short yardage though.

The Broncos have kicked around the idea of moving Franklin to guard because he's a powerful force in the running game and has struggled in pass protection. Moving him inside would take advantage of what he does best and limit his exposure to one-on-one pass protection situations against more athletic defensive ends.



http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21175413/franklin-could-move-guard-regardless-kupers-availability

Bacchus
07-28-2012, 03:37 AM
Per Legwold. Would love to see Franklin replacing Beadles and having Ryan Harris back at RT. The Kuper and Franklin tandem is pretty good in short yardage though.



http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21175413/franklin-could-move-guard-regardless-kupers-availability

I agree, to tell you the truth I forgot Harris was even on the team. Is his back healthy? If so he has to be better than Franklin. I also believe with Harris' size he would be better than Beadles at guard.

cutthemdown
07-28-2012, 03:42 AM
That's been talked about around here for awhile now. He just looks like a guard to me.

Lolad
07-28-2012, 05:21 AM
Per Legwold. Would love to see Franklin replacing Beadles and having Ryan Harris back at RT. The Kuper and Franklin tandem is pretty good in short yardage though.



http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21175413/franklin-could-move-guard-regardless-kupers-availability

Ryan Harris was good when healthy both run and pass. I think our short yardage improved last year with kuper and franklin though without looking at specific numbers

The Joker
07-28-2012, 05:21 AM
He's always looked like a guy who'd be a beast at Guard, plenty of people on here have been saying it for a while. With Manning at QB it's not as big a problem as it would have been with him protecting Tebow's blind side, but a move still makes sense given how poor Beadles has been at G.

The problem with committing to a move is that you're putting a lot of trust in Ryan Harris staying healthy, which is basically insane. I'm pretty confident that Harris would do a good job as the starting RT as long as he's healthy, but I just expect him to break down at some point.

If Franklin goes to LG then who's our #3 OT?

illbroncsfn
07-28-2012, 05:51 AM
Just get the best 5 lineman out there......

montrose
07-28-2012, 05:54 AM
If Franklin goes to LG then who's our #3 OT?

A few options:

* You could always shuffle Franklin back to RT and insert Beadles at LG?
* Beadles has RT experience himself from his rookie season.
* The team likes, and has liked, Chris Clark- playing as their 6th lineman in Jumbo sets last season.

cutthemdown
07-28-2012, 06:06 AM
A few options:

* You could always shuffle Franklin back to RT and insert Beadles at LG?
* Beadles has RT experience himself from his rookie season.
* The team likes, and has liked, Chris Clark- playing as their 6th lineman in Jumbo sets last season.

The problem with that is one injury causes 2 changes your line. They like to avoid those situations. Still a line with Beadles out of lineup sounds good to me. If Blake could win the center job I would be really excited. I just don't think much of Beadles and Walton. They seem soft to me.

The Joker
07-28-2012, 06:37 AM
A few options:

* You could always shuffle Franklin back to RT and insert Beadles at LG?
* Beadles has RT experience himself from his rookie season.
* The team likes, and has liked, Chris Clark- playing as their 6th lineman in Jumbo sets last season.

If we move Franklin I'd like to see us commit to the change and stick with it, so I'd much prefer the Beadles at RT option.

Forgot that he'd played a few different spots, he'd be a useful backup with that versatility. Also, most of his problems seem to come with just getting overpowered by bigger DT's, which wouldn't be so much of an issue at OT. He's actually decent in space, could be a better fit at OT.

Glad to hear they like Clark, big difference between being a 6th lineman in Jumbo sets and going one on one with top class DE's though, surely. Hopefully he'd be able to step up, or maybe we can pick up a decent OT when teams make final roster cuts?

Hope you're enjoying the job btw Montrose, sounds like fun! ^5

barryr
07-28-2012, 06:43 AM
There is a few of us who have stated that Franklin would make a better guard than tackle. I hope the move is made since pass protection is key to keeping Manning healthy, among other reasons. I am just not a big fan of Beadles, who seems to get pushed around too much IMO and probably better off at RT, but hopefully Harris is healthy enough to start there.

bpc
07-28-2012, 07:21 AM
Agree with the move. His pass blocking issues are of concern. The fastest way to the qb is a straight line. If your interior line struggles with pass blocking, that can get ugly.

Lolad
07-28-2012, 07:52 AM
Last year I thought was made beadles serviceable was the fact that he was great at pulling on run plays. I'm not sure if Franklin is fast enough to be a pulling guard.

enjolras
07-28-2012, 08:06 AM
Agree with the move. His pass blocking issues are of concern. The fastest way to the qb is a straight line. If your interior line struggles with pass blocking, that can get ugly.

Your not going to beat Franklin inside 1-1. He's a beast. His pass blocking issues are foot-speed related, with defensive ends getting off the ball before he can get to the outside. Once he's set out on the edge, however, you rarely saw anyone even challenge him.

I do think he can develop into a really good tackle, as his feet issues appear to be more technique than physical ability.

GreasyQtip
07-28-2012, 08:11 AM
A few options:

* You could always shuffle Franklin back to RT and insert Beadles at LG?
* Beadles has RT experience himself from his rookie season.
* The team likes, and has liked, Chris Clark- playing as their 6th lineman in Jumbo sets last season.

Was reading a blog that said after practice Kuper was working on snapping and playing some center.

At this point, I like continuity, but the idea of Clady-Beadles-Kuper-Franklin-Harris gets me hot

The Joker
07-28-2012, 08:22 AM
Was reading a blog that said after practice Kuper was working on snapping and playing some center.

At this point, I like continuity, but the idea of Clady-Beadles-Kuper-Franklin-Harris gets me hot

If Blake could hit the ground running then Clady-Franklin-Blake-Kuper-Harris might be the optimal grouping, though I'd be tempted to stick Kuper next to Clady and have an awesome left side.

cmhargrove
07-28-2012, 08:24 AM
Last year I thought was made beadles serviceable was the fact that he was great at pulling on run plays. I'm not sure if Franklin is fast enough to be a pulling guard.

He's plenty fast enough to pull. Getting somewhere quickly when you know exactly where you are going (pulling), is much easier than adjusting to outside defenders in open space (pass blocking).

I have been one of the proponents of the Franklin to LG scenario ever since we drafted him. He really played well and surprised me last year, but he has the chance to be a pro-bowl caliber Guard IMO. If Harris is truly healthy, this is a no brainier for me. The last time we had Harris, his pass blocking skills were light years ahead of Franklin's (no disrespect to Orlando - just the facts).

Bmore Manning
07-28-2012, 08:27 AM
Was reading a blog that said after practice Kuper was working on snapping and playing some center.

At this point, I like continuity, but the idea of Clady-Beadles-Kuper-Franklin-Harris gets me hot

I posted this yesterday, nobody seemed to catch on..
Franklin to RG and I'd even see what Blake is made of at LG..
Clady, Blake, Kuper, Franklin, Harris..

But I'd rather see- Clady, Franklin, Blake, Kuper, Harris

Lestat
07-28-2012, 08:42 AM
moving him off the RT position kinda scares me. Harris' back needs to be fully healthy to make that move without downgrading the line(though if Beadles or Walton is moved out it's addition by subtraction)

Play2win
07-28-2012, 08:49 AM
What about Clady-Kuper-Blake-Franklin-Harris?

Keep Franklin on the right side, and Kuper (when healthy) should pretty much own wherever he goes.

This could dominate in the rushing game and great pass-pro, to boot.

Bigdawg26
07-28-2012, 08:57 AM
What about Clady-Kuper-Blake-Franklin-Harris?

Keep Franklin on the right side, and Kuper (when healthy) should pretty much own wherever he goes.

This could dominate in the rushing game and great pass-pro, to boot.

I agree with this, and I think that would be the best 5 linemen on field. The only thing is that can you really expect Ryan Harris to stay healthy? If he can then great, but it's hard to expect Harris to go a season without his back going out!

Play2win
07-28-2012, 09:34 AM
I agree with this, and I think that would be the best 5 linemen on field. The only thing is that can you really expect Ryan Harris to stay healthy? If he can then great, but it's hard to expect Harris to go a season without his back going out!

Then, all Franklin would have to do is swing outside. It wouldn't be that big of a move. A little built-in insurance, just in case.

Rohirrim
07-28-2012, 09:57 AM
This Oline could be something special, whatever the final lineup. Given that we now have the QB who is the best at setting up assignments and the fastest in the league at getting rid of the ball, there could be some real fireworks out of this offense.

Drek
07-28-2012, 10:07 AM
I'd love it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Last season they played Franklin at RT and Beadles at LG even though Franklin spent more time playing guard than tackle in college, while Beadles spent more time playing tackle than guard in college and split time at both positions as a rookie.

So unless they're really impressed by Harris early on or they've suddenly found something that makes them give up on Franklin as a RT I just don't see it actually happening.

It would be ideal though. Then we could have a seven man line of:
Clady - Franklin - Walton - Kuper - Harris
With Blake pushing Walton and being a backup C/OG, and Beadles would be a quality swing tackle/swing guard double purpose guy.

That's some nice depth as we could lose any one player on the OL and not need to move anyone else off position, and could lose any two interior guys without having to move guys. Only if we lost both Clady and Harris would we then be up against it, and Beadles at LT, Franklin at RT is better 3rd and 4th OT depth than almost any team out there.

Its the quick answer to improving the OL, even if Blake doesn't hit the ground running and take over an interior OL job.

oubronco
07-28-2012, 10:45 AM
But why hasn't Harris been able to stick with one team for very long?

Drek
07-28-2012, 10:48 AM
But why hasn't Harris been able to stick with one team for very long?

He's never healthy.

He wasn't healthy all last season for the Eagles. He left here after being inconsistent from a health standpoint every year except for '08.

If the team is moving Franklin in to get Harris on the field it's the wrong thing to do because Harris probably isn't going to make it more than half the season again. If they're moving Franklin in because they think he will be a much better guard and the presence of Harris and versatility of Beadles only makes it easier then it's a good move.

broncosteven
07-28-2012, 10:52 AM
Last year I thought was made beadles serviceable was the fact that he was great at pulling on run plays. I'm not sure if Franklin is fast enough to be a pulling guard.

Sounds like they are going to run a lot more stretch plays and I bet we see more zone blocking than we did last year. I thought I read somewhere where Elway said he wanted to bring that back to help mix it up and keep D's guessing. Plus didn't we sign a true FB? We didn't really have a real blocking FB for the last couple years.

I think we see less pulling by the guards and more focus on 2nd level blocks.

DBroncos4life
07-28-2012, 11:01 AM
But why hasn't Harris been able to stick with one team for very long?

He's going on his 5th season as a Bronco.

Bronco Rob
07-28-2012, 11:18 AM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3606005&postcount=10





:thumbs:

Mogulseeker
07-28-2012, 11:44 AM
He's always looked like a guy who'd be a beast at Guard, plenty of people on here have been saying it for a while. With Manning at QB it's not as big a problem as it would have been with him protecting Tebow's blind side, but a move still makes sense given how poor Beadles has been at G.

The problem with committing to a move is that you're putting a lot of trust in Ryan Harris staying healthy, which is basically insane. I'm pretty confident that Harris would do a good job as the starting RT as long as he's healthy, but I just expect him to break down at some point.

If Franklin goes to LG then who's our #3 OT?

Probably Beadles.

Zane Beadles will have value on this team as a versatile, good backup that can play any position on the line.

BroncoMan4ever
07-28-2012, 11:53 AM
Ryan Harris was good when healthy both run and pass. I think our short yardage improved last year with kuper and franklin though without looking at specific numbers

Harris when healthy was beast like at RT

DBroncos4life
07-28-2012, 11:57 AM
It's hard to imagine Tony Hills not making the team for some reason.

yerner
07-28-2012, 12:07 PM
I was just hearing some guy on siriusNFL talk about the lack of right tackle depth in the entire league. This should be an interesting story to follow.

Bronco Yoda
07-28-2012, 12:11 PM
He's never healthy.

He wasn't healthy all last season for the Eagles. He left here after being inconsistent from a health standpoint every year except for '08.

If the team is moving Franklin in to get Harris on the field it's the wrong thing to do because Harris probably isn't going to make it more than half the season again. If they're moving Franklin in because they think he will be a much better guard and the presence of Harris and versatility of Beadles only makes it easier then it's a good move.

^this

broncosteven
07-28-2012, 12:14 PM
Probably Beadles.

Zane Beadles will have value on this team as a versatile, good backup that can play any position on the line.

Like Hockstein but better

oubronco
07-28-2012, 12:50 PM
He's never healthy.

He wasn't healthy all last season for the Eagles. He left here after being inconsistent from a health standpoint every year except for '08.

If the team is moving Franklin in to get Harris on the field it's the wrong thing to do because Harris probably isn't going to make it more than half the season again. If they're moving Franklin in because they think he will be a much better guard and the presence of Harris and versatility of Beadles only makes it easier then it's a good move.

Exactly my point ^5

Tombstone RJ
07-28-2012, 02:29 PM
When Harris is healthy he's a quality RT. The problem is he can't stay healthy. I'd love for Franklin to move inside and keep Beadles as a swingman back up. People complain about Beadles but he's got some good versatility.

Agamemnon
07-28-2012, 05:49 PM
Finally. I still don't get what they were thinking when they drafted him to play tackle in the first place. The dude is obviously a guard.

eddie mac
07-28-2012, 06:50 PM
It's hard to imagine Tony Hills not making the team for some reason.

Wasn't he with us last year and couldn't make the 53.

DBroncos4life
07-28-2012, 08:10 PM
Wasn't he with us last year and couldn't make the 53.

He was inactive every week so they must like him to keep him around.

lonestar
07-28-2012, 10:10 PM
Per Legwold. Would love to see Franklin replacing Beadles and having Ryan Harris back at RT. The Kuper and Franklin tandem is pretty good in short yardage though.



http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21175413/franklin-could-move-guard-regardless-kupers-availability

I guess I do not trust harris to be available for a full season.. so far he has played in just over 50% of the games he was eligible to play indue to injury and in some of those games he was playing at less than 100%.

When he was playing he was often beat like a cheap drum in the pass rush and his run blocking was not all that great either.. they ran better around OLT

IMO he might be a great depth player but the odds of him being in 16+ games is slim and not so good..

I hate to screw with continuity of those guys up front.. Moving players around causes real issues with trust and hesitation that could very well get a QB killed..

crush17
07-28-2012, 10:17 PM
I guess I do not trust harris to be available for a full season.. so far he has played in just over 50% of the games he was eligible to play indue to injury and in some of those games he was playing at less than 100%.

When he was playing he was often beat like a cheap drum in the pass rush and his run blocking was not all that great either.. they ran better around OLT

IMO he might be a great depth player but the odds of him being in 16+ games is slim and not so good..

I hate to screw with continuity of those guys up front.. Moving players around causes real issues with trust and hesitation that could very well get a QB killed..

You might want to rethink that statement partner.

Harris was pro-bowl caliber in 2008 and the o-line shat the bed as soon as he was hurt in 2009. He is a very good RT when healthy.

BMarsh615
07-28-2012, 10:39 PM
Guess that Ryan Harris might not be the guy replacing Franklin at RT if he moves to guard....

Tackle Chris Clark filled in at right tackle for Orlando Franklin, who attended the walkthrough but did not participate after suffering a “crick in his neck” in the earlier practice.http://blog.denverbroncos.com/denverbroncos/training-camp-2012-day-three-p-m/

EDIT: DMAC says Harris subbed in for Franklin

Franklin tweaked his neck. Harris playin right tackle for the most part

https://twitter.com/dmac1043/status/229379123271827457

lonestar
07-28-2012, 11:43 PM
You might want to rethink that statement partner.

Harris was pro-bowl caliber in 2008 and the o-line shat the bed as soon as he was hurt in 2009. He is a very good RT when healthy.

I'm pretty sure of what I saw he is not a pro bowl caliber OT by any strech or the coaching staffs in DEN as well as PHL IIRC would have been playing him.. alot..

he is OK but got beat a lot by faster DE.s ran by him loads of times causing QB's to hurry throws.. as for run blocking his ratings were worse than Cladys and that was not much to write home about.. IIRC almost a yard difference average between teh two.. But if someone wants to look it up I'll be fine If I'm wrong.. just show the links.. I'm doing this all from memory..

I have never thought much of his playing..and have paid a lot of attention to his sickly ass. I do know that his on the field presence was until last year a shade over 50% of the snaps he was eligible for.. and that is not good enough to be a starting OL guy in the NFL..

Lolad
07-29-2012, 04:32 AM
I'm pretty sure of what I saw he is not a pro bowl caliber OT by any strech or the coaching staffs in DEN as well as PHL IIRC would have been playing him.. alot..

he is OK but got beat a lot by faster DE.s ran by him loads of times causing QB's to hurry throws.. as for run blocking his ratings were worse than Cladys and that was not much to write home about.. IIRC almost a yard difference average between teh two.. But if someone wants to look it up I'll be fine If I'm wrong.. just show the links.. I'm doing this all from memory..

I have never thought much of his playing..and have paid a lot of attention to his sickly ass. I do know that his on the field presence was until last year a shade . over 50% of the snaps he was eligible for.. and that is not good enough to be a starting OL guy in the NFL..

Harris was our best run blocker when healthy. I'm going off of memory as well, but he was not resigned because of health not his playing ability. Or they never would have brought him back

Drek
07-29-2012, 05:05 AM
I'm pretty sure of what I saw he is not a pro bowl caliber OT by any strech or the coaching staffs in DEN as well as PHL IIRC would have been playing him.. alot..
In his one healthy season he started every game and played basically every snap. His inability to stay healthy isn't a statement as to how he plays when he can be on the field.

Also, he never got off the IR with Philly last year so they never even had the option to play him. They did however think enough of what they saw on tape to rearrange their entire OL upon signing him to open up RT, which then bit them in the ass when he never stepped on the field.

he is OK but got beat a lot by faster DE.s ran by him loads of times causing QB's to hurry throws.. as for run blocking his ratings were worse than Cladys and that was not much to write home about..
You mean during the years in which Clady was a top 3 OT in the entire NFL?

IIRC almost a yard difference average between teh two.. But if someone wants to look it up I'll be fine If I'm wrong.. just show the links.. I'm doing this all from memory..
rushing average per side is a pretty weak stat. Not only does type of run play have a huge role, the C and OG on that side play at least as key a role as the OT.

I have never thought much of his playing..and have paid a lot of attention to his sickly ass.
That's nice. In '08 when healthy he got serious consideration for the pro-bowl and a bunch of very well informed football guys argued that he was one of the few elite RTs in the league. He and Clady were the backbone for the '08 OL's success.

I do know that his on the field presence was until last year a shade over 50% of the snaps he was eligible for.. and that is not good enough to be a starting OL guy in the NFL..
Well seeings how he misses snaps due to health and not poor play, I'd say it's pretty damn irrelevant.

If Clady is healthy he should be our RT. The key is being prepared for the inevitable missed time on his part. This is why they should only move Franklin if it's going to be a permanent move. Beadles is better off as a RT than as a LG anyway, so having the two of them permanently swap is a win/win situation. But then I felt the same way last year and the team didn't even try it for a second.

ozomulsion
07-29-2012, 02:27 PM
Manning has had far worse tackles than Franklin, and he covers for them. I hope Harris can be our RT again, but I don't think it matters all that much. Franklin at G sounds wonderful as far as our running game goes.

lonestar
07-29-2012, 03:06 PM
In his one healthy season he started every game and played basically every snap. His inability to stay healthy isn't a statement as to how he plays when he can be on the field.

Also, he never got off the IR with Philly last year so they never even had the option to play him. They did however think enough of what they saw on tape to rearrange their entire OL upon signing him to open up RT, which then bit them in the ass when he never stepped on the field.


You mean during the years in which Clady was a top 3 OT in the entire NFL?


rushing average per side is a pretty weak stat. Not only does type of run play have a huge role, the C and OG on that side play at least as key a role as the OT.


That's nice. In '08 when healthy he got serious consideration for the pro-bowl and a bunch of very well informed football guys argued that he was one of the few elite RTs in the league. He and Clady were the backbone for the '08 OL's success.


Well seeings how he misses snaps due to health and not poor play, I'd say it's pretty damn irrelevant.

If Clady is healthy he should be our RT. The key is being prepared for the inevitable missed time on his part. This is why they should only move Franklin if it's going to be a permanent move. Beadles is better off as a RT than as a LG anyway, so having the two of them permanently swap is a win/win situation. But then I felt the same way last year and the team didn't even try it for a second.


Beadle at RT yeah sure.. he was a piss poor RT when he subed there..

I still contend do not screw with the OL continuity unless someone is clearly better than the guy in front of him.. it screws up the guys next to him mentally when they have to tink if only for a millisecond about what the guy next to him is going to do.. that is something you can get away with in college but the pros will take the hesitation and turn it into a QB being screwed into the ground..

Harris is a weakling that has back issues among other things YES he had one good year but the rest of the time he has missed 30 games WHILE in DEN alone due to injuries not even counting all of last year..

In those 34 games he did start how many of them did he play at 100% and not with an injury the only reason he was out there was because Tanahan had nothing to replace him with that was worth a crap..

as for blocking stats yep lots of stuff goes into it BUT I watched him play and he got beat a lot.. Being a former OG, after the game is over I go back and I watch the OL a lot of the time and he IMO sucked as a ORT.. when Kuper was in he saved his bacon a lot.. or he got help from the TE on his side..

Sorry but you are wrong on this..

He might be a great OG, but replacing franklin for this moke is a very short-term screw up.. If Franklin is not the guy at ORT then draft one.. or get one-off the waiver wire.

We still need quality OL backups..

Raider9175
07-29-2012, 08:01 PM
I posted this yesterday, nobody seemed to catch on..
Franklin to RG and I'd even see what Blake is made of at LG..
Clady, Blake, Kuper, Franklin, Harris..

But I'd rather see- Clady, Franklin, Blake, Kuper, Harris

Instead of 42 sacks that Oline might cut it down to 40 sacks in 2012. (improvements)

Bacchus
07-29-2012, 08:14 PM
Instead of 42 sacks that Oline might cut it down to 40 sacks in 2012. (improvements)

Peyton won't be sacked more that 22 times this year.

Bmore Manning
07-29-2012, 08:23 PM
Instead of 42 sacks that Oline might cut it down to 40 sacks in 2012. (improvements)

Your team is garbage.. Enjoy McBrittle being your only offensive weapon, with a soft chump D.

Raider9175
07-29-2012, 08:32 PM
Peyton won't be sacked more that 22 times this year.

I guess your right when your sitting on the sideline, it hard to sack you. That Oline will only give 40 sacks with caleb hanie under center.

Raider9175
07-29-2012, 08:36 PM
Your team is garbage.. Enjoy McBrittle being your only offensive weapon, with a soft chump D.

Correct me when have the Bronco stopped Mcbrittle again. IT's pad your stats game, when he plays against the Bronco's.

Agamemnon
07-30-2012, 06:18 AM
Peyton won't be sacked more that 22 times this year.

Indeed. But he will be hurried a lot. You can count on that.

Bmore Manning
07-30-2012, 06:23 AM
Correct me when have the Bronco stopped Mcbrittle again. IT's pad your stats game, when he plays against the Bronco's.

Enjoy I don't know 15-20 more years of mediocracy guy. Lol, The Peyton lead Broncos have bigger aspirations in mind! Lol

BMarsh615
08-11-2012, 08:09 AM
• Orlando Franklin. Franklin made a brief appearance at right guard Thursday night, which may be his position in the Broncos offensive line for the long term if the team can find someone to be the right tackle.
The Broncos have considered moving Franklin to right guard to take advantage of his powerful work in the run game and move Chris Kuper to left guard. The feeling is it would make them stronger up front overall, but they can't do it until someone steps forward to be the option at right tackle.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21288062/preseason-opener-rewind?source=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Bigdawg26
08-11-2012, 08:33 AM
I hope Ryan Harris can take back his RT and stay healthy. That way Franklin can move to guard!

The Joker
08-11-2012, 08:39 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see us take an OT early next year in the draft, especially if we end up having to tag Clady.

Love the idea of Franklin at guard, think he can be a beast there. Think he can be a good OT, but I'd rather put him somewhere he can be dominant and try and find a true OT to play across from Clady.

The idea of Clady and Kuper playing side by side is also very appealing.

This year Franklin is playing RT though, I'd bet.

cmhargrove
08-11-2012, 08:45 AM
I would love to see the FO get going with this. Make a trade for a decent RT if you can. Send someone Moreno + a third round pick for a decent RT option, and just get it done.

There has to be someone out there that can compete with Harris all year at RT. The backups we have (outside of Ramirez) look pretty weak.

Dedhed
08-11-2012, 08:56 AM
I would love to see the FO get going with this. Make a trade for a decent RT if you can.

The better plan would be to see if we can get a year out of Harris and then look to upgrade the RT in the off season. Harris is certainly "decent" when healthy, but not a stud by any means.

cutthemdown
08-11-2012, 09:00 AM
Instead of 42 sacks that Oline might cut it down to 40 sacks in 2012. (improvements)

The way Tebow plays adds about 10 sacks. The way Manning plays removes about 10 sacks. I'd say they give up about 20 sacks this yr.

Hey do you know your qb leads the NFL in pick 6's by an active QB. How many does Palmer have this yr behind your line? I say 2 picks 6's this yr what do you think?

cmhargrove
08-11-2012, 09:07 AM
The better plan would be to see if we can get a year out of Harris and then look to upgrade the RT in the off season. Harris is certainly "decent" when healthy, but not a stud by any means.

You will find that I am one of the strongest Harris supporters, but it just seems unwise at this point to not have strong competition at that spot. Harris hasn't been healthy enough to even make it through training camp and solidify his spot, so it's becoming more and more difficult to trust in him. The competition will only make him better anyway.

If you are going to move Franklin to Guard, just do it once and do it permanently. That means we definitely need more talent and backup at the tackle position. Just imagine if Clady went down also. Would you trust Clark or Beadles to work at either RT or LT? We need a solid player to compete at RT, then possibly play swing tackle in case of an injury to Clady.

Dedhed
08-11-2012, 09:15 AM
You will find that I am one of the strongest Harris supporters, but it just seems unwise at this point to not have strong competition at that spot. Harris hasn't been healthy enough to even make it through training camp and solidify his spot, so it's becoming more and more difficult to trust in him. The competition will only make him better anyway.

If you are going to move Franklin to Guard, just do it once and do it permanently. That means we definitely need more talent and backup at the tackle position. Just imagine if Clady went down also. Would you trust Clark or Beadles to work at either RT or LT? We need a solid player to compete at RT, then possibly play swing tackle in case of an injury to Clady.
I agree, but I don't think that trying to upgrade through a trade at this point makes sense.

Smilin Assassin
08-11-2012, 09:20 AM
I agree, but I don't think that trying to upgrade through a trade at this point makes sense.

IDK.

Normally, I'd agree. If WR, DE, LB, etc...were our weakness, I'd agree. But considering the investment/importance of our QB, and RT is a big question mark?

We're looking at a 3-5 yr window for Peyton. I'd have no problem w/trading for a 'possible' upgrade at RT.

I think it's a gamble worth taking IF the staff is uncomfortable w/who we have now.

Dedhed
08-11-2012, 09:25 AM
IDK.

Normally, I'd agree. If WR, DE, LB, etc...were our weakness, I'd agree. But considering the investment/importance of our QB, and RT is a big question mark?

We're looking at a 3-5 yr window for Peyton. I'd have no problem w/trading for a 'possible' upgrade at RT.

I think it's a gamble worth taking IF the staff is uncomfortable w/who we have now.

Who are you going to get right now that's going to solidify the RT position long term?

If Harris can't play there this year, we're better off keeping Franklin there for 2012 and looking to draft a stud RT in 2013.

I also think your window is a bit large on Peyton, but that's another topic. I'm looking at a 2-3 year window.

Hamrob
08-11-2012, 09:26 AM
If Franklin goes to guard........it's because Kuper is no way close to coming back!

Beadles has been playing well....so, no need to replace him.

cmhargrove
08-11-2012, 09:28 AM
I agree, but I don't think that trying to upgrade through a trade at this point makes sense.

Bunkley worked out ok didn't he? I know people might argue, but the Joe Mays trade was also a pretty good trade. In both circumstances, we got starters for a mid round pick - always a good deal.

There are always players available, and some teams with depth would rather have a draft pick instead of renegotiating contracts or making hard cuts at the end of training camp. This is a significantly important issue for this team (protecting Manning), and after watching our backup Tackles perform the other night, I would be on the phone looking for a quality Tackle.

Hamrob
08-11-2012, 09:29 AM
Ryan Harris was actually selected for a couple of ALL-Pro teams his 2nd year. That's how good of a pass protector he was/is.

If he is healthly (outside of his sprained ankle), then he would be the perfet RT for Manning.

Would Franklin be a better LG then Beadles...I'm not so sure. He'd be the perfect RG perhaps. I think moving Franklin to RG and plugging in Harris at RT is the backup plan.....only if Kuper can't come back.

Dedhed
08-11-2012, 09:31 AM
If Franklin goes to guard........it's because Kuper is no way close to coming back!

Beadles has been playing well....so, no need to replace him.

I agree in the short term, but I think that the long term thinking is that while Franklin may be a solid RT, he has the potential to be an absolute beast at guard.

If Kupe can't get healthy I think it makes more sense to insert #2 RG on the depth chart than it does to shuffle 2-3 positions to try to fill the gap left by Kuper. Then invest heavliy in OL next off-season.

Dedhed
08-11-2012, 09:34 AM
Bunkley worked out ok didn't he? I know people might argue, but the Joe Mays trade was also a pretty good trade. In both circumstances, we got starters for a mid round pick - always a good deal.

There are always players available, and some teams with depth would rather have a draft pick instead of renegotiating contracts or making hard cuts at the end of training camp. This is a significantly important issue for this team (protecting Manning), and after watching our backup Tackles perform the other night, I would be on the phone looking for a quality Tackle.
We're talking about a long term solution at RT, so I don't see how the Bunkley comparison fits at all. We have stop gaps on the roster.

Vlad Ducasse, who's rumored to be on the trade block may be worth a look if we could get him for a guy we're likely to cut.

The Joker
08-11-2012, 09:36 AM
Beadles has been playing well? Since when?

He was awful most of last year, good on pulling plays but pretty much terrible at everything else.

I actually think he'd be better at RT, he looks at his worst when he's forced to go head to head with DT's in a battle of strength. At OT that wouldn't be such an issue and he'd be playing in space more.

Hamrob
08-11-2012, 09:36 AM
Bunkley worked out ok didn't he? I know people might argue, but the Joe Mays trade was also a pretty good trade. In both circumstances, we got starters for a mid round pick - always a good deal.

There are always players available, and some teams with depth would rather have a draft pick instead of renegotiating contracts or making hard cuts at the end of training camp. This is a significantly important issue for this team (protecting Manning), and after watching our backup Tackles perform the other night, I would be on the phone looking for a quality Tackle.I agree, that's why I hope we trade a guy like Moreno and pick up an extra 5th for next year. But, I don't think we need to trade for a Tackle...when we have Ryan Harris on our roster.

Smilin Assassin
08-11-2012, 09:37 AM
Who are you going to get right now that's going to solidify the RT position long term?

If Harris can't play there this year, we're better off keeping Franklin there for 2012 and looking to draft a stud RT in 2013.

I also think your window is a bit large on Peyton, but that's another topic. I'm looking at a 2-3 year window.


Yeah, agreed there isn't an option (known to us anyways), and that's the issue, IMO. (Paging Mr Zimmerman...Mr Gary Zimmerman. Please pick up the courtesy phone..)

Hopefully Franklin, Harris or someone else on the current roster will step up and own the RT spot.

As for the Peyton-Window...I'm just being optimistic and hoping 5 yrs from now the media is asking "Who woulda thunk he had 5 yrs left?"

So, if you don't mind, don't be realistic. Reality can suck somtimes :D

Kaylore
08-11-2012, 09:39 AM
• Orlando Franklin. Franklin made a brief appearance at right guard Thursday night, which may be his position in the Broncos offensive line for the long term if the team can find someone to be the right tackle.
The Broncos have considered moving Franklin to right guard to take advantage of his powerful work in the run game and move Chris Kuper to left guard. The feeling is it would make them stronger up front overall, but they can't do it until someone steps forward to be the option at right tackle.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21288062/preseason-opener-rewind?source=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


I would love this.

bowtown
08-11-2012, 09:40 AM
Beadles has been playing well....so, no need to replace him.

Lulz

Dedhed
08-11-2012, 09:51 AM
Yeah, agreed there isn't an option (known to us anyways), and that's the issue, IMO. (Paging Mr Zimmerman...Mr Gary Zimmerman. Please pick up the courtesy phone..)

Hopefully Franklin, Harris or someone else on the current roster will step up and own the RT spot.

As for the Peyton-Window...I'm just being optimistic and hoping 5 yrs from now the media is asking "Who woulda thunk he had 5 yrs left?"

So, if you don't mind, don't be realistic. Reality can suck somtimes :D
Reality and I don't often interact. Remember, I was optimistic about Tebow.

But in my best stab at realism, I think it makes more sense to rely on continuity and keep the OL from last year intact until we have clear upgrades. The only clear upgrade I currently see is if Harris can play RT and stay healthy.

He's probably a better pass blocker currently than Franklin, which is likely to be better suited to this offense, and Franklin would likely be a huge upgrade over Beadles at G.

orinjkrush
08-11-2012, 10:04 AM
can we bring in Marcus McNeill for quickie 1 year offer?

Hi risk hi reward?

UberBroncoMan
08-11-2012, 10:04 AM
People forget just how ****ing good Ryan Harris was when healthy. He was one of the top RT's in the entire of the NFL. He could be different now. But if he's at all like he used to be and can finally be healthy, move Franklin to LG, ASAP.

can we bring in Marcus McNeill for quickie 1 year offer?

Hi risk hi reward?

He retired.

Dedhed
08-11-2012, 10:07 AM
People forget just how ****ing good Ryan Harris was when healthy. He was one of the top RT's in the entire of the NFL. He could be different now. But if he's at all like he used to be and can finally be healthy, move Franklin to LG, ASAP.


I do remember, but the problem is he hasn't played healthy in years, and couldn't get through a week of training camp.

DENVERDUI55
08-11-2012, 10:11 AM
can we bring in Marcus McNeill for quickie 1 year offer?

Hi risk hi reward?

If he wasn't retired.

cmhargrove
08-11-2012, 10:12 AM
People forget just how ****ing good Ryan Harris was when healthy. He was one of the top RT's in the entire of the NFL. He could be different now. But if he's at all like he used to be and can finally be healthy, move Franklin to LG, ASAP.



He retired.

Just for the record, I haven't seen anyone in this thread doubt Harris' ability when healthy. He is a tremendous pass blocker, whose only apparent weakness was against strong bull rushers. Otherwise, he was fantastic.

It's just been a long road for him, and his health issues are multiple and recurring. We all want the old Ryan back, but history is working against him at this point.

Bacchus
08-11-2012, 10:47 AM
Just for the record, I haven't seen anyone in this thread doubt Harris' ability when healthy. He is a tremendous pass blocker, whose only apparent weakness was against strong bull rushers. Otherwise, he was fantastic.

It's just been a long road for him, and his health issues are multiple and recurring. We all want the old Ryan back, but history is working against him at this point.

I agree but obviously he is not impressing in camp since even without Franklin there at tackle Harris still isn't starting.

Heyneck
08-11-2012, 11:22 AM
I'd love it, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Last season they played Franklin at RT and Beadles at LG even though Franklin spent more time playing guard than tackle in college, while Beadles spent more time playing tackle than guard in college and split time at both positions as a rookie.

So unless they're really impressed by Harris early on or they've suddenly found something that makes them give up on Franklin as a RT I just don't see it actually happening.

It would be ideal though. Then we could have a seven man line of:
Clady - Franklin - Walton - Kuper - Harris
With Blake pushing Walton and being a backup C/OG, and Beadles would be a quality swing tackle/swing guard double purpose guy.

That's some nice depth as we could lose any one player on the OL and not need to move anyone else off position, and could lose any two interior guys without having to move guys. Only if we lost both Clady and Harris would we then be up against it, and Beadles at LT, Franklin at RT is better 3rd and 4th OT depth than almost any team out there.

Its the quick answer to improving the OL, even if Blake doesn't hit the ground running and take over an interior OL job.

^This! But don't forget about Clark! The team seam to really like him! We have pretty good depth on the Oline for sure!!!

bowtown
08-11-2012, 11:40 AM
Anyone know if Marcus McNeill retired?

pricejj
08-11-2012, 12:02 PM
Moving Franklin to RG makes all the sense in the world.

broncosteven
08-11-2012, 12:16 PM
I heard we could get Marcus McNeil, start him at LT, move Clady to LG, Harris at RT and Franklin at RG which would move Kuper to C!

Talk about a freaking WALL!

Lolad
08-11-2012, 12:26 PM
Beadles has been playing well? Since when?

He was awful most of last year, good on pulling plays but pretty much terrible at everything else.

I actually think he'd be better at RT, he looks at his worst when he's forced to go head to head with DT's in a battle of strength. At OT that wouldn't be such an issue and he'd be playing in space more.

I agree with you. I also believe that beadles players well when he replaced Harris in the lineup at RT

Cool Breeze
08-11-2012, 12:51 PM
Anyone know if Marcus McNeill retired?

ESPN’s Adam Schefter is reporting that former San Diego left tackle Marcus McNeill is being forced to retire at the age of 29 because of a neck injury.

Drek
08-11-2012, 01:06 PM
• Orlando Franklin. Franklin made a brief appearance at right guard Thursday night, which may be his position in the Broncos offensive line for the long term if the team can find someone to be the right tackle.
The Broncos have considered moving Franklin to right guard to take advantage of his powerful work in the run game and move Chris Kuper to left guard. The feeling is it would make them stronger up front overall, but they can't do it until someone steps forward to be the option at right tackle.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_21288062/preseason-opener-rewind?source=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

This is the absolutely wrong way to think about this.

Franklin is a second year player. Other than Clady and Kuper, who are proven, putting him at his position of greatest success should be our #1 priority on the OL.

If they think Franklin is better as a RG and that Kuper would do well at LG then they need to just do it, lock in 4 of the 5 positions, and let the RT battle sort itself out.

Bronco Yoda
08-12-2012, 12:11 AM
^

Bacchus
08-12-2012, 12:49 AM
Moving Franklin to RG makes all the sense in the world.

Franklin is 6'7" 330 lbs. That is much bigger than your typical guard. Guards have to be very good runners and agile because alot of their blocks occur downfield on LBers and safeties. Plus they do a lot of pulling and trapping. If Franklin can do all of this with percision at his size he could be a beast.

I feel however they are just experimenting with this and Franklin will stay at LT.

ZONA
08-12-2012, 02:52 AM
Franklin is 6'7" 330 lbs. That is much bigger than your typical guard. Guards have to be very good runners and agile because alot of their blocks occur downfield on LBers and safeties. Plus they do a lot of pulling and trapping. If Franklin can do all of this with percision at his size he could be a beast.

I feel however they are just experimenting with this and Franklin will stay at LT.

There have been many large tackles that have been moved to guard over the years and they've done well. The pulling and trapping would just take some practice but you gotta love the idea of a big guard holding up well at the POA and can get some push at the LOS. But I'm not sold yet that he can't be a good RT. He was a rookie last year so I think he deserves another year to try and showcase he can play that spot before they decide to move him inside.

extralife
08-12-2012, 04:49 AM
The pulling and trapping would just take some practice

the season starts in 3 weeks

Lycan
08-12-2012, 05:02 AM
Franklin is 6'7" 330 lbs. That is much bigger than your typical guard. Guards have to be very good runners and agile because alot of their blocks occur downfield on LBers and safeties. Plus they do a lot of pulling and trapping. If Franklin can do all of this with percision at his size he could be a beast.

I feel however they are just experimenting with this and Franklin will stay at LT.

RT.

Bacchus
08-12-2012, 06:52 AM
There have been many large tackles that have been moved to guard over the years and they've done well. The pulling and trapping would just take some practice but you gotta love the idea of a big guard holding up well at the POA and can get some push at the LOS. But I'm not sold yet that he can't be a good RT. He was a rookie last year so I think he deserves another year to try and showcase he can play that spot before they decide to move him inside.

I understand that but it being successful is more of an exception than a rule. I still think he will not be moved. It would be great if he could successfully do it because he would be a monster at Guard I just don't think it will happen this year unless injury forces it to.

Bacchus
08-12-2012, 06:53 AM
RT.

You're right of course thanks for the correction.:flower:

cmhargrove
08-12-2012, 07:40 AM
the season starts in 3 weeks

I believe that Franklin played RG for a season or two in college, it shouldn't be that much of a change for him.

Honestly, I think that most NFL linemen have played about every line position somewhere in their careers (high school, college, pro), so the concepts and basic skills aren't foreign, just the level of competition.

cmhargrove
08-12-2012, 07:49 AM
Franklin is 6'7" 330 lbs. That is much bigger than your typical guard. Guards have to be very good runners and agile because alot of their blocks occur downfield on LBers and safeties. Plus they do a lot of pulling and trapping. If Franklin can do all of this with percision at his size he could be a beast.

I feel however they are just experimenting with this and Franklin will stay at LT.

Just roll your memory back to last year. Don't you remember Franklin flying downfield and hammering people near the pile when our RB's got stacked up? I remember it because he was like a freight train and even got flagged for a mean, late hit if memory serves me right.

All NFL linemen need to be "dancing bears," but Tackles historically need the best feet - especially in pass pro. They have to protect a much larger area, and are challenged by much faster players. IMO - the open field and change of direction skills are where Franklin is a little lacking. I'm not saying he couldn't get better, but if you really want him at RT, the best thing would be to have him lose a few LB's.

Bacchus
08-12-2012, 08:06 AM
Just roll your memory back to last year. Don't you remember Franklin flying downfield and hammering people near the pile when our RB's got stacked up? I remember it because he was like a freight train and even got flagged for a mean, late hit if memory serves me right.

All NFL linemen need to be "dancing bears," but Tackles historically need the best feet - especially in pass pro. They have to protect a much larger area, and are challenged by much faster players. IMO - the open field and change of direction skills are where Franklin is a little lacking. I'm not saying he couldn't get better, but if you really want him at RT, the best thing would be to have him lose a few LB's.

I pretty much agree with all of that. Like I said I would love for him to be able to make the conversion because having his size and run blocking abilty at guard would really help the team out that is for sure.

Hamrob
08-12-2012, 09:54 AM
I thought Beadles had some good moments last year. I also thought he played well against the Bears during our 1st preseason game. The kid has only played 2yrs...give him a break.

The concern on our line is "All About" whether Kuper is ready to start the season. Kup had extremely severe injuries to both his knee and ankle. His rehab has been long and slow. They are going to start him next week against the Seahawks and we'll get to see how he holds up. But, this team is looking towards what they can do...if he's not ready.

That's a pretty easy decision. Move Franklin to RG, and plug in Harris or Clark at RG.

All of you who want to continue bringing Beadles into the conversation...have at it. But, he'll be our starting LG when the season begins.

TonyR
08-13-2012, 07:02 AM
Andrew Mason has Ryan Harris not making the team.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/19786109

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/andrew-luck-winner-lard

The Joker
08-13-2012, 07:27 AM
Wouldn't be a major surprise.

He was a very good RT for us back in 2008, but he's had terrible problems with injuries since then. Odds are he's not the same player he once was, even when he's healthy enough to pay.

Franklin stays at RT this year.

cutthemdown
08-13-2012, 07:33 AM
IMO Broncos and all teams often move guys around because they might get hit with injuries.

Maybe a plan is if Kuper goes down they move Franklin to guard and Harris plays. That would be them saying we feel our bkup tackle, better then our bkup guards, and we want our best 5 lineman on the field at all times.

Bacchus
08-13-2012, 07:44 AM
Andrew Mason has Ryan Harris not making the team.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/19786109

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/andrew-luck-winner-lard

That's hard to believe, how did he get so bad? I wonder if Shanahan will look at him if he gets cut.

If this is true NO WAY is Franklin moved to guard.

pricejj
08-13-2012, 08:37 AM
Andrew Mason has Ryan Harris not making the team.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/rapid-reports/post/19786109

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/andrew-luck-winner-lard

Mason has 26 Defensive players, 24 Offensive players, and 3 Special teamers.

Not sure that I would prefer Chris Clark over both Ryan Harris and Adam Grant. Grant was only called for holding because he was absolutely dominating the LDE. On runs to the right Grant would basically block the LDE all the way to the sideline.

Ryan Harris has had an ankle sprain the past week or so...can't make the club from the tub.

TonyR
08-13-2012, 08:38 AM
...how did he get so bad?

I think it's more about his health than his ability.