Brzezinski: Carter Provoked USSR Invasion of Afghanistan

[nyuk nyuk]

How Jimmy Carter and I Started the Mujahideen (http://www.counterpunch.org/1998/01/15/how-jimmy-carter-and-i-started-the-mujahideen/)

Q: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise: Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

Brzezinski: It isn’t quite that. We didn’t push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn’t believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don’t regret anything today?

Brzezinski: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic [integrisme], having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Q: Some stirred-up Moslems? But it has been said and repeated: Islamic fundamentalism represents a world menace today.

Brzezinski: Nonsense! It is said that the West had a global policy in regard to Islam. That is stupid. There isn’t a global Islam. Look at Islam in a rational manner and without demagoguery or emotion. It is the leading religion of the world with 1.5 billion followers. But what is there in common among Saudi Arabian fundamentalism, moderate Morocco, Pakistan militarism, Egyptian pro-Western or Central Asian secularism? Nothing more than what unites the Christian countries.

------------------------------------------------

So Carter provoked a fight with the USSR that brought the US political gain but killed a buttload of Afghans in the process.

What a humanitarian!!!! :giggle:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If there's any truth to this account, then why aren't right-wingers like you praising him?

Oh, that's right - there's the matter of that 'D' after his name...

[barryr]

You'll notice how the liberals and their anti-war slogans and chants were awfully silent then and that trend continues whenever a democrat is in the WH, including now. We still have troops in Afghanistan doing, who knows what, but the liberals and their media barely notice. But it isn't about politics. Yeah, sure.

[mhgaffney]

I suggest you check out Bob Gates memoir -- FROM THE SHADOWS.

Gates was in a position to know the score -- during the Carter administration. He served in Carter's government -- if I remember correctly -- on Carter's national security council.

Gates' memoir supports the post at the top of the thread. Carter was not the foreign policy wimp that many of you take for granted. According to Gates, it was actually Carter who began the military buildup that continued under Reagan. Though Carter never got "credit" for it.

Later Gates became William Casey's aide -- then even later became CIA chief under president HW Bush. Later still, Gates replaced Rummy as Sec of Defense (sic).

Gates' portrait of Carter is curious. I suspect that Gates may have attempted to redeem Carter's tarnished image -- -- because there is no doubt that Gates had personal knowledge of the October Surprise -- how HW Bush and William Casey dealt arms secretly to Iran (via Israel) -- behind Carter's back -- thus insuring Carter's defeat in the 1980 presidential election.

Under Reagan, Gates served as William Casey's top aide -- then later as CIA chief under president HW Bush. Later still, Gates replaced Rummy as Sec of Defense (sic).

Gates was the consummate insider. A shadow master. One of our darkest princes of darkness.

MHG

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You'll notice how the liberals and their anti-war slogans and chants were awfully silent then and that trend continues whenever a democrat is in the WH, including now. We still have troops in Afghanistan doing, who knows what, but the liberals and their media barely notice. But it isn't about politics. Yeah, sure.

Spoken like a moron who has no memory of LBJ.

[orinjkrush]

Brzezinski is the guy who scares me. something not quite right about that feller.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/brzezinski-decries-global-political-awakening-during-cfr-speech.html (Alex Jones screed)

[Obushma]

I've posted this before, here it is again.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OJTv2nFjMBk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Brzezinski helped create what Al-Qaeda is today.

[Drek]

The sad part is after using this that trap to break the USSR we waited about 20 years and let a single terrorist cell draw us into the EXACT SAME TRAP.

How ****ing dumb as a nation are we? At least the current POTUS understands this and is setting hard numbers on getting the **** out.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The sad part is after using this that trap to break the USSR we waited about 20 years and let a single terrorist cell draw us into the EXACT SAME TRAP.

How ****ing dumb as a nation are we? At least the current POTUS understands this and is setting hard numbers on getting the **** out.

The Bush Crime Family got us into Afghanistan and Iraq with the same goal as the Vietnam cheerleaders, i.e., to prolong the conflict as long as possible so as to maximize profits for the banksters, Wall St., and the military industrial complex.

These sh*t stains couldn't care less how the economy is treating the little people.

[cutthemdown]

Oh know don't **** on LABF's golden boy. To him the Carter years were like The Wonder Years. The rampant inflation cuddled him and made him feel warm.

[cutthemdown]

The sad part is after using this that trap to break the USSR we waited about 20 years and let a single terrorist cell draw us into the EXACT SAME TRAP.

How ****ing dumb as a nation are we? At least the current POTUS understands this and is setting hard numbers on getting the **** out.

He understand Afghanistan huh. So much he decided to say he was going to wipe out the Taliban, then withdraw leaving security to an empowered Afghan govt. Meanwhile his surge got a ton more killed, then he stopped it and is just sort of waiting to leave even though country on brink of being in Taliban control. Yeah you are right he's awesome.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Oh know don't **** on LABF's golden boy. To him the Carter years were like The Wonder Years. The rampant inflation cuddled him and made him feel warm.

All you know about the Carter years you learned from some Heritage Foundation revised history.

You were probably still in diapers when Carter was in the WH.

[mhgaffney]

The sad part is after using this that trap to break the USSR we waited about 20 years and let a single terrorist cell draw us into the EXACT SAME TRAP.

How ****ing dumb as a nation are we? At least the current POTUS understands this and is setting hard numbers on getting the **** out.

No -- we did not wait.

The US strategic plans to take down the USSR -- included a scheme to manipulate DOWN the world price of oil -- given that the USSR's main revenue was from oil sales.

It worked very effectively. The USSR treasury went bust in November 1991 -- and the USSR was no more.

But the plans first hatched under Reagan continued under HW Bush. They included covert ops to destroy the ruble, loot Russia, and take control of key sectors of the Russian economy.

This continued under the drunk Yeltsin -- and even after 9/11. However, the western operation to destroy Russia eventually ran into serious resistance in the person of Putin.

MHG

[W*GS]

Figures.

gaffe is Putin's bukkake boy.

Anyone who opposes the US, no matter how wrong or evil, is gaffe's BFF.

Tell ya what, gaffe. Move to North Korea, Iran, one of those kinds of places. They'll love you - a 21st century "Tokyo Rose"....

Honestly, why do you continue to live here given you hate the US so much?

BTW, you never answered my question - just when was America closest to your ideal? Name the year.

Or shut the **** up, asshole.

[BroncoBeavis]

The Bush Crime Family got us into Afghanistan and Iraq with the same goal as the Vietnam cheerleaders, i.e., to prolong the conflict as long as possible so as to maximize profits for the banksters, Wall St., and the military industrial complex.

These sh*t stains couldn't care less how the economy is treating the little people.

Why do they hate Kennedy and LBJ so? Why?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Why do they hate Kennedy and LBJ so? Why?

You obviously don't know enough about either JFK or LBJ to have a meaningful opinion.

[BroncoBeavis]

You obviously don't know enough about either JFK or LBJ to have a meaningful opinion.

So those evil banksterses trixed Kennedy and Johnson into Vietnam. Precious

[barryr]

Spoken like a moron who has no memory of LBJ.

Oh, you mean those demonstrations that escalated crime across the country? Figures you'd be proud of that. Seems the anti-war protesters are just as violent and remain so today.

[Requiem]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.

[barryr]

So those evil banksterses trixed Kennedy and Johnson into Vietnam. Precious

The way it works is Bush lied, but the democrats who agreed were just mistaken. Bush was eager to get into a war, and was easy to talk into war by the CIA, while LBJ and Kennedy were poor innocent victims who were tricked into war by the CIA.

[mhgaffney]

Why do they hate Kennedy and LBJ so? Why?

The banksters and oil tycoons hated JFK because he stood up to Wall Street. JFK actually ordered the Treasury to print money -- US Treasury notes. This sent the criminal syndicate running the fed into a tither.

Read James Douglass's book JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE.

Here is a synopsis:

At the height of the Cold War, JFK risked committing the greatest crime in human history: starting a nuclear war. Horrified by the specter of nuclear annihilation, Kennedy gradually turned away from his long-held Cold Warrior beliefs and toward a policy of lasting peace. But to the military and intelligence agencies in the United States, who were committed to winning the Cold War at any cost, Kennedy’s change of heart was a direct threat to their power and influence. Once these dark "Unspeakable" forces recognized that Kennedy’s interests were in direct opposition to their own, they tagged him as a dangerous traitor, plotted his assassination, and orchestrated the subsequent cover-up.

Douglass takes readers into the Oval Office during the tense days of the Cuban Missile Crisis, along on the strange journey of Lee Harvey Oswald and his shadowy handlers, and to the winding road in Dallas where an ambush awaited the President’s motorcade. As Douglass convincingly documents, at every step along the way these forces of the Unspeakable were present, moving people like pawns on a chessboard to promote a dangerous and deadly agenda.

[mhgaffney]

Here is more praise for the book:

Review
“A remarkable story that changed the way I view the world.”—JAMES BRADLEY, author of Flags of Our Fathers

“Arguably the most important book yet written about a U.S. president … Should be required reading for all high school and college students, and anyone who is a registered voter!”—JOHN PERKINS, author of Confessions of an Economic Hitman

“The best account I have read of this tragedy and its significance … But don’t take my word for it. Read this extraordinary book and reach your own conclusions.” —OLIVER STONE, director


"Jim Douglass has unraveled the story of President Kennedy’s astonishing and little-known turn toward peace, and the reasons why members of his own government felt he must be eliminated. This disturbing, enlightening, and ultimately inspiring book should be read by all Americans. It has the power to change our lives and to set us free."—MARTIN SHEEN

“JFK and the Unspeakable is an exceptional achievement. Douglass has made the strongest case so far in the JFK assassination literature as to the Who and the Why of Dallas.”—GERALD McNIGHT, author of Beach of Trust: How the Warren Commission Failed the Nation and Why

“Once in a great while a book comes along that both records history and makes it. … An exciting work with the drama of a first-rate thriller.” —MARK LANE, author of Rush to Judgment

[BroncoBeavis]

The banksters and oil tycoons hated JFK because he stood up to Wall Street. JFK actually ordered the Treasury to print money -- US Treasury notes. This sent the criminal syndicate running the fed into a tither.

Read James Douglass's book JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE.

Here is a synopsis:

Sorry, but what does any of this have to do with our resident peacesters hating Kennedy and LBJ for dragging us into Vietnam?

[mhgaffney]

You are wasting your breathe on a non issue. The real issue is the JFK assassination --

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Sorry, but what does any of this have to do with our resident peacesters hating Kennedy and LBJ for dragging us into Vietnam?

::)

You're clearly clueless about this time in history (but don't worry - Fox News is happy to fill the void, eh?)

It was actually Eisenhower who got us into Vietnam.

JFK wanted to get us out of Vietnam - which is one of the foremost reasons why he was hated by his political enemies on the right.

[BroncsRule]

The Bush Crime Family got us into Afghanistan and Iraq with the same goal as the Vietnam cheerleaders, i.e., to prolong the conflict as long as possible so as to maximize profits for the banksters, Wall St., and the military industrial complex.

These sh*t stains couldn't care less how the economy is treating the little people.

- or how many members of the US "underclass", or how many brown people halfway around the world - have to die.

[BroncsRule]

the Brzezinski quotes in the OP are chilling.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

- or how many members of the US "underclass", or how many brown people halfway around the world - have to die.

Bingo.

The most amazing thing is that the jackals who supported this carnage call themselves "Christians."

[mhgaffney]

Bingo.

The most amazing thing is that the jackals who supported this carnage call themselves "Christians."

Right -- or liberals -- like Rohrrim -- who is always telling us how progressive he is.

Yet he cheers on the US shock and awe scorched earth policies that are

1. destroying the planet
2. feeding $ trillions in public sector money (i.e., taxpayer dollars) into the war machine
3. subverting our democratic institutions, such as they are - and
4. causing most of the world to despise and fear us

MHG

[nyuk nyuk]

I suggest you check out Bob Gates memoir -- FROM THE SHADOWS.

Gates was in a position to know the score -- during the Carter administration. He served in Carter's government -- if I remember correctly -- on Carter's national security council.

Gates' memoir supports the post at the top of the thread. Carter was not the foreign policy wimp that many of you take for granted. According to Gates, it was actually Carter who began the military buildup that continued under Reagan. Though Carter never got "credit" for it.

Later Gates became William Casey's aide -- then even later became CIA chief under president HW Bush. Later still, Gates replaced Rummy as Sec of Defense (sic).

Gates' portrait of Carter is curious. I suspect that Gates may have attempted to redeem Carter's tarnished image -- -- because there is no doubt that Gates had personal knowledge of the October Surprise -- how HW Bush and William Casey dealt arms secretly to Iran (via Israel) -- behind Carter's back -- thus insuring Carter's defeat in the 1980 presidential election.

Under Reagan, Gates served as William Casey's top aide -- then later as CIA chief under president HW Bush. Later still, Gates replaced Rummy as Sec of Defense (sic).

Gates was the consummate insider. A shadow master. One of our darkest princes of darkness.

MHG

I think it's particularly amusing because many on the left continue to claim that "Reagan founded al Qaida" because some members of this former Muhajideen went on to found the Taliban and al Qaida. You won't hear them blame Carter for that, though.

[nyuk nyuk]

The Bush Crime Family got us into Afghanistan and Iraq with the same goal as the Vietnam cheerleaders, i.e., to prolong the conflict as long as possible so as to maximize profits for the banksters, Wall St., and the military industrial complex.

These sh*t stains couldn't care less how the economy is treating the little people.

So what's the difference between this "crime family" and the Kennedy crime family that got us mired in Vietnam, other than many thousands of American deaths?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So what's the difference between this "crime family" and the Kennedy crime family that got us mired in Vietnam, other than many thousands of American deaths?

Um, for starters, JFK didn't get us into Vietnam - that was Eisenhower.

Second, JFK realized Vietnam was a mistake (unlike Daddy's Little War Criminal and Iraq) and was trying to get us out (the main reason he was assassinated.)

[nyuk nyuk]

Um, for starters, JFK didn't get us into Vietnam - that was Eisenhower.

Second, JFK realized Vietnam was a mistake (unlike Daddy's Little War Criminal and Iraq) and was trying to get us out (the main reason he was assassinated.)

So that Kennedy escalated the conflict is irrelevant? How did I know you'd evade that point? No, instead he "drew a line in the sand" in Vietnam to stop Communist expansion and expanded Eisenhower's several hundred advisors to full-blown troop presence of over 15,000 in less than 2 years in office. :wave:

So let's get this straight. JFK was assassinated by a Marxist for trying to get us out of Vietnam. Hilarious! Perhaps the Marxist Vietcong wanted us to stick around for tea and roast duck?

:giggle:

[mhgaffney]

So that Kennedy escalated the conflict is irrelevant? How did I know you'd evade that point? No, instead he "drew a line in the sand" in Vietnam to stop Communist expansion and expanded Eisenhower's several hundred advisors to full-blown troop presence of over 15,000 in less than 2 years in office. :wave:

So let's get this straight. JFK was assassinated by a Marxist for trying to get us out of Vietnam. Hilarious! Perhaps the Marxist Vietcong wanted us to stick around for tea and roast duck?

:giggle:

Brush up on your history, please.

It was the CIA that started the Viet Nam War -- in the 1950s - under Ike.

JFK increased the number of US advisers -- but refused to order the major escalation wanted by the Pentagon.

JFK had second thoughts -- and did not want to become embroiled in a SE Asia war. JFK had traveled to the region -- and was smart enough to oppose a wider war. JFK was very well informed on economic and geo politics.

After the Cuban missile crisis -- JFK opened a back channel with Nikita Khruschev. JFK was almost unique among US presidents in that he learned from his mistakes. In his final months -- JFK planned to withdraw from Viet Nam, deconstruct the CIA, end the Cold War, and prepare the American people to live in peace -- that is, without war.

He was snuffed for all of the above reasons -- among others.

MHG

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Brush up on your history, please.

It was the CIA that started the Viet Nam War -- in the 1950s - under Ike.

JFK increased the number of US advisers -- but refused to order the major escalation wanted by the Pentagon.

JFK had second thoughts -- and did not want to become embroiled in a SE Asia war. JFK had traveled to the region -- and was smart enough to oppose a wider war. JFK was very well informed on economic and geo politics.

After the Cuban missile crisis -- JFK opened a back channel with Nikita Khruschev. JFK was almost unique among US presidents in that he learned from his mistakes. In his final months -- JFK planned to withdraw from Viet Nam, deconstruct the CIA, end the Cold War, and prepare the American people to live in peace -- that is, without war.

He was snuffed for all of the above reasons -- among others.

MHG

The only "history" nyuk nyuk and the Bush Youth know is served up by the Heritage Foundation and the like.

[BroncoBeavis]

Brush up on your history, please.

It was the CIA that started the Viet Nam War -- in the 1950s - under Ike.

JFK increased the number of US advisers -- but refused to order the major escalation wanted by the Pentagon.

JFK had second thoughts -- and did not want to become embroiled in a SE Asia war. JFK had traveled to the region -- and was smart enough to oppose a wider war. JFK was very well informed on economic and geo politics.

After the Cuban missile crisis -- JFK opened a back channel with Nikita Khruschev. JFK was almost unique among US presidents in that he learned from his mistakes. In his final months -- JFK planned to withdraw from Viet Nam, deconstruct the CIA, end the Cold War, and prepare the American people to live in peace -- that is, without war.

He was snuffed for all of the above reasons -- among others.

MHG

No historian would argue that Eisenhower started the Vietnam war. If I remember right he warned Kennedy against it. Even Kennedy was likely apprehensive about blowing it into a real full scale war. That distinction belongs to LBJ.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No historian would argue that Eisenhower started the Vietnam war. If I remember right he warned Kennedy against it. Even Kennedy was likely apprehensive about blowing it into a real full scale war. That distinction belongs to LBJ.

Correct answer. :thumbsup:

[mhgaffney]

No historian would argue that Eisenhower started the Vietnam war. If I remember right he warned Kennedy against it. Even Kennedy was likely apprehensive about blowing it into a real full scale war. That distinction belongs to LBJ.

This is a tricky question.

The CIA started the Viet Nam War in the 1950s. The CIA ran it until LBJ's major escalation in 1965.

But the war still started on Ike's watch. Ike probably signed off on some of what the CIA was doing -- but they also probably deceived Ike about the full extent of the operation. This was standard - then and now.

MHG

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No historian would argue that Eisenhower started the Vietnam war.

The U.S. military presence in Vietnam was established under Eisenhower.

That's a fact - convenient for you or not.

[BroncoBeavis]

The U.S. military presence in Vietnam was established under Eisenhower.

That's a fact - convenient for you or not.

And Bill Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 and had the Navy and Air Force enforcing a no-fly-zone over Iraq.

So really, I guess Iraq was Clinton's war?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And Bill Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 and had the Navy and Air Force enforcing a no-fly-zone over Iraq.

So really, I guess Iraq was Clinton's war?

We were discussing who started the war in Vietnam, or how the U.S. initially got involved, I thought...?

[BroncoBeavis]

We were discussing who started the war in Vietnam, or how the U.S. initially got involved, I thought...?

Yeah, and I was pointing out your ridiculous double-standards in casting blame for said war.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yeah, and I was pointing out your ridiculous double-standards in casting blame for said war.

The only thing you were "pointing out" was your own ignorance re: history (getting to be a habit for you.)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And Bill Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 and had the Navy and Air Force enforcing a no-fly-zone over Iraq.

So really, I guess Iraq was Clinton's war?

Really?

There was no U.S. military involvement in Iraq before Clinton?

Is that what they taught you in the right-wing diploma mill you attended?

[BroncoBeavis]

Really?

There was no U.S. military involvement in Iraq before Clinton?

Is that what they taught you in the right-wing diploma mill you attended?

I think you're missing the point, but we can keep playing the "go back further" game all you want. Truman's the one who started the aid to South Vietnam. And that was after FDR spent WWII arming the Viet Minh to fight the Vichy French, only to knife them in the back after the war, switching sides to back the French.

Then the French lost (because they're French) and we ended up taking their place, fighting the same people FDR armed, then betrayed...

Tangled Webs.

Note: Because I know you'll go there, I don't blame FDR. Or Truman. Or Eisenhower. Or Kennedy really (although he increased our presence from 500 to 15k) Post WWII international politics was a weird and ugly business sometimes.

The real blame for the American war goes to the guy who escalated it into an American war (and even exaggerated or manufactured events to justify it)

[mhgaffney]

Yeah, and I was pointing out your ridiculous double-standards in casting blame for said war.

The blame goes to CIA lunatics like Allen Dulles, Frank Wisner, and the like.

But Ike must get a share. He was after all the prez.

No doubt, the CIA deceived him.

MHG