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TonyR
07-19-2012, 10:19 AM
Not sure how good these numbers are but just passing along.

The not so surprising: J.D. Walton fares horribly, being ranked the worst center.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/14/three-years-of-pass-blocking-efficiency-centers/


The somewhat surprising: Kupe apparently gave up a lot of pressures, but thankfully isn't rated one of the 15 worst overall.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/13/three-years-of-pass-blocking-efficiency-guards/

TonyR
07-19-2012, 10:22 AM
And speaking of Walton...


As John Fox said to me, “We are eager to learn from Peyton.”...Now Peyton is the coach on the field and young wide receivers Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker are about to explode. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the two guys who caught 76 passes between them last year combine for 150 receptions this year…

...Manning likes 12 personnel (1RB, 2TE, 2WR) and a no-huddle attack. His former teammate Jacob Tamme told me he takes on the Dallas Clark role which he did for the Colts when Clark got hurt. Joel Dreessen, former Titan and jack-of-all-trades gives the Broncos the flexibility to build a spread set or a two-back set or any other formation in their attack package. There will be a lot of pressure on center J.D. Walton, who will have to learn to check protections constantly as Manning makes multiple changes at the line of scrimmage. Manning is used to Jeff Saturday, who had 13 years of experience in that role. Walton has two years and has never played with the likes of a Peyton Manning.

Don’t think the Broncos will ignore the run game. As Bill Cowher said to me, “Peyton likes the stretch zone run game to set up his play-action pass and he sees so much two high safety coverages he has to take the run.”

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/19603092/denver-broncos

Bigdawg26
07-19-2012, 11:39 AM
I'll glad to see Beadles not up there in pressures. I kind of feel like giving him and Kupe a pass because in their defense even Tebow didn't know what and where he was going in the pocket. Walton just sucks though!

BroncoMan4ever
07-19-2012, 11:44 AM
Kupe deserves a pass. His playing conditions have sucked. Rookie, injury replacement, aged veteran in wrong system. He has had no stability or strong play around him yet he still performs at a high level

Bacchus
07-19-2012, 01:44 PM
Again, I think last years numbers are an aberration. Tebow hung on to the ball way too long and a lot of his sacks were made after he started to scramble. I think Denver's line will be a top 10 line this year. All of their lineman are young highly drafted players. Watch them this year and you will see a much improved unit. You guys just do not understand what kind of upgrade Tebow to Manning is. This OL will be much, much improved. Manning will not be sacked 20 times this year.

Beantown Bronco
07-19-2012, 02:13 PM
You guys just do not understand what kind of upgrade Tebow to Manning is.

Really? We don't?

I can only assume you meant to post this on another site.

Beantown Bronco
07-19-2012, 02:18 PM
You guys just do not understand what kind of upgrade Tebow to Manning is. This OL will be much, much improved. Manning will not be sacked 20 times this year.[/FONT][/COLOR]

Just to be clear, Manning is so good that he can make the worst center/OG combo in the league right now in Walton and Beadles look like probowlers, but you just spent the better part of the last few days stating that we can't possibly survive in the future with anyone other than Clady at left tackle and need to make him the highest paid OLineman in the league?

For some reason, Manning can make centers and guards and right tackles look good, but he can't make left tackles look good. Interesting.

socalorado
07-19-2012, 02:21 PM
http://www.rantsports.com/dallas-cowboys/files/2012/03/Philip-Blake.jpg

ludo21
07-19-2012, 02:23 PM
OL just need to block, no PASS for you!

Bronco Rob
07-19-2012, 03:47 PM
In a perfect world

Harris stays healthy.

Kuper comes back at a 100%

Franklin slides to guard

And Blake pushes Walton for playing time.



:thumbs:

Bacchus
07-19-2012, 03:51 PM
Really? We don't?

I can only assume you meant to post this on another site.

Well, people here keep talking about how bad Denver's OL is.

I am here to say those people do not understand the differance between having Tebow as your QB and Manning. The OL will be much improved this year.

brncs_fan
07-19-2012, 03:53 PM
In a perfect world

Harris stays healthy.

Kuper comes back at a 100%

Franklin slides to guard

And Blake pushes Walton for playing time.

:thumbs:

Agree to a point. I would much rather see what Franklin can do at RT now that he has had an actual off-season to work on it coupled with a years experience at the position.

Bacchus
07-19-2012, 03:55 PM
Just to be clear, Manning is so good that he can make the worst center/OG combo in the league right now in Walton and Beadles look like probowlers, but you just spent the better part of the last few days stating that we can't possibly survive in the future with anyone other than Clady at left tackle and need to make him the highest paid OLineman in the league?

For some reason, Manning can make centers and guards and right tackles look good, but he can't make left tackles look good. Interesting.

FIRST of all Denver does NOT have the worst center/OG combo in the league. Tim Tebow made them look like the worst because the defenses always had 8 or 9 defenders in the box and this puts tremendous pressure on the OL especially when your QB completes less than 50% of his passes.

NOW get rid of Tebow and add Manning and you are looking at a 100% improvement. You go from the worst passer/game manager in the NFL to one of the top 5.

As far as Clady, Manning will make Clady look like the best OT in the NFL. If Denver does not sign him to a contract this year they are going to be forced to really pay for his services next year. Especially after he is selected to his 3rd Probowl in 4 years. Better to sign him now then later. We will watch this all play out and next year When Clady is holding out wanting more money we will all remember that we should have signed him this year.

MagicHef
07-19-2012, 06:35 PM
FIRST of all Denver does NOT have the worst center/OG combo in the league. Tim Tebow made them look like the worst because the defenses always had 8 or 9 defenders in the box and this puts tremendous pressure on the OL especially when your QB completes less than 50% of his passes.

NOW get rid of Tebow and add Manning and you are looking at a 100% improvement. You go from the worst passer/game manager in the NFL to one of the top 5.

As far as Clady, Manning will make Clady look like the best OT in the NFL. If Denver does not sign him to a contract this year they are going to be forced to really pay for his services next year. Especially after he is selected to his 3rd Probowl in 4 years. Better to sign him now then later. We will watch this all play out and next year When Clady is holding out wanting more money we will all remember that we should have signed him this year.

According to PFF, Walton was the worst C in the league (-28.9). However, compared to his run blocking (-23.4), his pass protection was pretty good (-5.3). It seems he needs to improve his run blocking more than anything. How will Peyton help him do that?

eddie mac
07-19-2012, 06:47 PM
According to PFF, Walton was the worst C in the league (-28.9). However, compared to his run blocking (-23.4), his pass protection was pretty good (-5.3). It seems he needs to improve his run blocking more than anything. How will Peyton help him do that?

Just being there instead of Tebow. There'll be no more 8-9 in the box against Manning and OL having to double block.

Bacchus
07-19-2012, 07:18 PM
According to PFF, Walton was the worst C in the league (-28.9). However, compared to his run blocking (-23.4), his pass protection was pretty good (-5.3). It seems he needs to improve his run blocking more than anything. How will Peyton help him do that?

Whatever, you can look at stats and I'll look at facts. Fact is this team will be remarkably better with Manning in and Tebow gone. Walton might not be good but he will be significantly better than last year. None of the OL graded well last year. Look at Kuper's grades. He did not grade out well. It isn't about them it is about Tebow. I will grant you that Walton is the worst of the bunch but he isn't nearly as bad as the "stats" bear him out to be. Blake could come in and take Walton's spot and that would be a good thing but if he doesn't Denver will still be OK.

Everybody is going to be impressed with the "statisical" improvement the OL makes this year. Some of it will be because they have a year more experience and worked together this offseason but most of the improvement because of a change from #15 to #18.

errand
07-19-2012, 07:49 PM
According to PFF, Walton was the worst C in the league (-28.9). However, compared to his run blocking (-23.4), his pass protection was pretty good (-5.3). It seems he needs to improve his run blocking more than anything. How will Peyton help him do that?

.... because Manning's ability to throw the ball will mean that there won't be 9 guys in the box, which means Walton will get to block one guy instead of 2?

Swedish Extrovert
07-19-2012, 07:53 PM
When was Dreesen a Titan?

gyldenlove
07-19-2012, 08:10 PM
In a perfect world

Harris stays healthy.

Kuper comes back at a 100%

Franklin slides to guard

And Blake pushes Walton for playing time.



:thumbs:

In a perfect world we go 19-0 and Peyton Manning goes Raider Milt on the rest of the league.

MagicHef
07-19-2012, 08:13 PM
Just being there instead of Tebow. There'll be no more 8-9 in the box against Manning and OL having to double block.

PFF doesn't judge the result of a play, they judge how well a player did his specific job. Walton's intended job never entailed blocking 2 guys at once. He was to block one guy, and he failed to do that more often than pretty much any other C in the league. The fact that there was another defender free didn't impact Walton's rating.

Manning may well improve a lot of things about our offense, but nothing other than Walton himself improving will make him even an average lineman.

Ziggy
07-19-2012, 08:17 PM
Well, people here keep talking about how bad Denver's OL is.

I am here to say those people do not understand the differance between having Tebow as your QB and Manning. The OL will be much improved this year.

Or....because Peyton Manning puts players in the right position pre-snap and gets the ball out quicker our OL will still suck, but look much better. Big difference.

uplink
07-19-2012, 10:10 PM
should have signed Jeff Saturday when they had the shot, then cut walton at the end of camp.

Bacchus
07-19-2012, 11:36 PM
Or....because Peyton Manning puts players in the right position pre-snap and gets the ball out quicker our OL will still suck, but look much better. Big difference.

Yes, Manning will make them look better but keeping in the same line of thinking Tebow made the OL look worse than they actually are.

Beantown Bronco
07-20-2012, 05:30 AM
FIRST of all Denver does NOT have the worst center/OG combo in the league. Tim Tebow made them look like the worst because the defenses always had 8 or 9 defenders in the box and this puts tremendous pressure on the OL especially when your QB completes less than 50% of his passes.

Then explain why they were both ranked 32nd in the league at their positions in 2010, before Tebow took over? This is now 2 years running at the bottom of the NFL.

Mediator12
07-20-2012, 06:19 AM
The thing about offensive line play, is the fine line in being in the right play versus the defense given to you. DEN has had the worst audible and game changing QB play system since Shanahan and Plummer. Shanny and McD are terrible control freaks and they would use bad plays to try and set up defenses. It did not always work well for the OL and put them in untenable blocking situations based on the fronts and schemes they saw.

Peyton Manning changes ALL of that in one fell swoop. His OL in INDY the last five years was truly pathetic outside of Saturday. He had 3 seconds to throw and they could not run on ANYONE even with 7 in the box! DEN's OL will get better schematically and it will simplify the blocking assignments and responsibilities for the OL going forward. Less 5 and seven step drops and more balls out quickly will help in the passing game. More inside and outside Zone will take advantage of the smaller, but quicker interior OL and both Tackles are mobile enough to play on the edges in the outside stretch zone plays.

That is how you will take a severely underperfoming OL and make it instantly more able to execute. Will there be growing pains? Yeah, but hopefully its like When Lepsis switched positions. It will look terrible in the preseason with the Vanilla gameplans, but badass in the regular season when Peyton starts messing with defenses in full force.

CEH
07-20-2012, 06:28 AM
The thing about offensive line play, is the fine line in being in the right play versus the defense given to you. DEN has had the worst audible and game changing QB play system since Shanahan and Plummer. Shanny and McD are terrible control freaks and they would use bad plays to try and set up defenses. It did not always work well for the OL and put them in untenable blocking situations based on the fronts and schemes they saw.

Peyton Manning changes ALL of that in one fell swoop. His OL in INDY the last five years was truly pathetic outside of Saturday. He had 3 seconds to throw and they could not run on ANYONE even with 7 in the box! DEN's OL will get better schematically and it will simplify the blocking assignments and responsibilities for the OL going forward. Less 5 and seven step drops and more balls out quickly will help in the passing game. More inside and outside Zone will take advantage of the smaller, but quicker interior OL and both Tackles are mobile enough to play on the edges in the outside stretch zone plays.

That is how you will take a severely underperfoming OL and make it instantly more able to execute. Will there be growing pains? Yeah, but hopefully its like When Lepsis switched positions. It will look terrible in the preseason with the Vanilla gameplans, but badass in the regular season when Peyton starts messing with defenses in full force.

Well said

"Defeat the defense" is Manning speciality. He will get the offense into the right play. Manning will make the Oline better and it was never as bad as alot on here make it out to be. Especially the Tebowers who think the '12 Oline will be the same one that had to change everything in '11.

Kaylore
07-20-2012, 06:49 AM
should have signed Jeff Saturday when they had the shot, then cut walton at the end of camp.

I disagree. I think Saturday is on his last legs. There would have been some chemistry and hand-off familiarity advantage, but at the end of the day it would have been a flashy investment with little return.

cutthemdown
07-20-2012, 11:54 AM
Our dline is so much better then our oline, but people just don't see it. The oline our weakest link on the whole team.

pricejj
07-20-2012, 02:07 PM
Our dline is so much better then our oline, but people just don't see it. The oline our weakest link on the whole team.

especially the interior OL

Smiling Assassin27
07-20-2012, 02:25 PM
I disagree. I think Saturday is on his last legs. There would have been some chemistry and hand-off familiarity advantage, but at the end of the day it would have been a flashy investment with little return.


Those are the best kind, man!


Sincerely

Tony Dorsett, Butch Johnson, Andre Reed, and Jerry Rice