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Kaylore
07-18-2012, 07:06 PM
The Oakland Raiders
Last season: 8-8

Offseason Losses: QB Jason Campbell, RB Michael Bush, WR Chaz Schilens, TE Kevin Boss, OT Stephon Heyer, G Bruce Campbell, C Samson Satele, DE/OLB Kamerion Wimbley, DE Trevor Scott, DE Jarvis Moss, DE Quentin Groves, DT John Henderson, ILB Darryl Blackstock, CB Stanford Routt, CB Chris Johnson, CB Lito Sheppard.

Veteran Additions: QB Matt Leinart, RB Mike Goodson, FB Owen Schmitt, G Mike Brisiel, DE Dave Tollefson, OLB Philip Wheeler, CB Shawntae Spencer, CB Ronald Bartell, CB Patrick Lee, HC Dennis Allen.

Draft Picks:

Round 3: Tony Bergstrom OT Utard
Round 4: Miles Burris OLB San Diego St.
Round 5: Jack Crowford DE Penn St.
Round 5: Juron Criner WR Arizona
Round 6: Christo Bilukidi DE Georgia St.
Round 7: Nathan Stupar OLB Penn St.

Schedule:
Sept. 10 San Diego Chargers (Mon.) 10:15 p.m.
Sept. 16 at Miami Dolphins 4:15 p.m.
Sept. 23 Pittsburgh Steelers 4:15 p.m.
Sept. 30 at Denver Broncos 4:05 p.m.
Oct. 7 BYE
Oct. 14 at Atlanta Falcons 1 p.m.
Oct. 21 Jacksonville Jaguars 4:15 p.m.
Oct. 28 at Kansas City Chiefs 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 4 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 11 at Baltimore Ravens 1 p.m.
Nov. 18 New Orleans Saints 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 25 at Cincinnati Bengals 1 p.m.
Dec. 2 Cleveland Browns 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 6 Denver Broncos (Thurs.) 8:20 p.m.
Dec. 16 Kansas City Chiefs 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 23 at Carolina Panthers 1 p.m.
Dec. 30 at San Diego Chargers 4:15 p.m.

Analysis: Oakland was part of the three way tie between the Broncos and Chargers that could have won the division. Injuries and player transitions were a big reason the offense stumbled. The defense falling to 29th in the league didn’t help either. Predictably, they are firing their coach (again) and signed a really young replacement with little experience in Dennis Allen, who two years ago was a secondary coach and came from a team he coached to 20th in defense and 24th in scoring (which admittedly was a step forward), Outside of Juron Criner and Tony Bergstrom, their draft class is too small to expect any kind of immediate help there. Palmer is a big factor. If he improves, he could help them through a rough schedule that includes some horrible back-and-forth to the East Coast in the middle of the season. More likely, he will be the same Carson Palmer that we’ve seen for several years: Moments of brilliance in an overall mediocre show. Darren McFadden will be back, which should help, but expect some fallout as Michael Bush is out, and putting more carries on a clearly fragile McFadden will not bode well for his long term reliability next seasons. Running backs don’t get more durable the more they play. Also, every coach who was part of their vaunted running game is now gone. Their defensive line took a hit with Wimbley gone, and the rest of the unit is starting to show its age, so there may be some fallout there. I do think Oakland’s receivers are underrated and there is some fantasy value at the position, especially when you consider they’re going to be throwing a lot to keep up this year.

Prediction 5-11: I think this is a transition year for the Raiders (isn’t every year?). They’ve lost too many free agents the past two years and given up too many draft picks for players with ho-hum ability to see any short-term grown. The good news for them is Al Davis is gone and they will no longer just be drafting the fastest guy in underwear at every position, so there is some hope that things will turn around, but not for several years. With a hard schedule, too many new pieces, and not very reliable ones on the roster, I don’t expect much from the Raiders this season.

Kaylore
07-18-2012, 07:06 PM
The Kansas City Chiefs
Last season: 7-9

Veteran Additions: QB Brady Quinn, RB Peyton Hillis, TE Kevin Boss, OT Eric Winston, DE/DT Ropati Pitoitua, CB Stanford Routt, HC Romeo Crennel (promoted).

Offseason Losses: QB Kyle Orton, RB Jackie Battle, FB Le'Ron McClain, TE Leonard Pope, OT Barry Richardson, C Casey Wiegmann, DE Wallace Gilberry, NT Kelly Gregg, CB Brandon Carr, S Jon McGraw, HC Todd Haley.

Draft Picks:

Round 1: Dontari Poe DT Memphis
Round 2: Jeff Allen OT Illinois
Round 3: Donald Stephenson OT Oklahoma
Round 4: Devon Wylie WR Fresno St.
Round 5: DeQuan Menzie CB Alabama
Round 6: Cyrus Gray RB Texas A&M
Round 7: Jerom Long DT San Diego St
Round 7: Junior Hemingway WR Michigan

Schedule:
Sept. 9 Atlanta Falcons 1 p.m.
Sept. 16 at Buffalo Bills 1 p.m.
Sept. 23 at New Orleans Saints 1 p.m.
Sept. 30 San Diego Chargers 1 p.m.
Oct. 7 Baltimore Ravens 1 p.m.
Oct. 14 at Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1 p.m.
Oct. 21 BYE
Oct. 28 Oakland Raiders 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 1 at San Diego Chargers (Thurs.) 8:20 p.m.
Nov. 12 at Pittsburgh Steelers (Mon.) 8:30 p.m.
Nov. 18 Cincinnati Bengals 1 p.m.
Nov. 25 Denver Broncos 1 p.m.
Dec. 2 Carolina Panthers 1 p.m.
Dec. 9 at Cleveland Browns 1 p.m.
Dec. 16 at Oakland Raiders 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 23 Indianapolis Colts 1 p.m.
Dec. 30 at Denver Broncos 4:15 p.m.

Analysis: The Chiefs started the season with some terrible luck with season ending injuries to their star running back Jamaal Charles, safety Eric Berry and their emerging tight end Tony Moeaki. Despite this, they still managed to 15th in rushing and 11th in total defense. With all three returning this season, it’s reasonable to assume they will continue improve on that this season. They have a solid special teams unit with the 8th best punt return average in the NFL and opponents had the fourth fewest kickoff return yards against them. I was a big fan of the way they threw a bunch of picks at offensive line. As an outsider, I would like to see the Chiefs go back to having arguably the best offensive line in the NFL the way they were in the early 2000. They also drafted Cyrus Gray, a big bruising back am sad to say I was a big fan of, and could be a perfect complement to Charles. Currently Bowe is holding out and it is looking likely he is willing to pull a Vincent Jackson and sit out the first ten games of the season. Steve Breston is a more than Solid number two but not a true number one and will not be able to fill that role. Jonathan Baldwin had a disappointing rookie year and hopes to improve going forward. It was pointed out to me that Baldwin was ranked 95th worst in drops last season. That doesn’t bode well for his transition.
The Chiefs were 24th in passing offense and were third in fewest passing touchdowns thrown last year. This of course is because of their biggest weakness, Matt Cassel. Cassel is woefully average, and while it could be worse, it will not be much better. Romeo Crenel took over and was able to get them a couple of late wins, but his career .350 winning percentage is essentially terrible.

Prediction 9-7: The Chiefs are the sexy pick to win the division. Technically, with the schedule the AFC West has this year, 9-7 could win it. I don’t believe they will, though. If the Chiefs get back to a ground game that is strong, they will be able to protect Cassel and lean on their defense. They have a team that could beat anyone if a few things go well. I correctly picked them to beat the Packers last year. This year I think losing Wiegman and getting two rookie tackles (wherever they play) means some transition on the offensive line. Unfortunately their schedule is absolutely brutal, and will require better QB play than they are capable of mustering. Against teams like the Saints, Ravens and Steelers, Cassel just does not have the ability to fire back if they get in a shoot-out. They also were tied for third fewest sacks in the NFL last year. Hali is basically a one man show, without any help it is less likely they get the stops they need to in critical situations. The deal-breaker for me is Crennel, who I consider another Wade Phillips in that they are both excellent coordinators and horrible head coaches. I expect their defense and running game to keep a lot of games close, but at the end of the season I think they’ll come up a bit short.

Kaylore
07-18-2012, 07:07 PM
The San Diego Chargers
Last Season: 8-8

Veteran Additions: QB Charlie Whitehurst, RB Ronnie Brown, FB LeRon McClain, WR Robert Meachem, WR/KR Eddie Royal, G Rex Hadnot, DE/OLB Jarret Johnson, ILB Demorrio Williams, S Atari Bigby, KR Michael Spurlock, KR Roscoe Parrish.

Offseason Losses: QB Billy Volek, RB Mike Tolbert, WR Vincent Jackson, WR Patrick Crayton, OT Marcus McNeill, G Kris Dielman, C Scott Mruczkowski, DE/OLB Travis LaBoy, DT Tommie Harris, CB Dante Hughes, S Steve Gregory.

Draft Picks:
Round 1: Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina
Round 2: Kendell Reyes DT Connecticuit
Round 3: Brandon Taylor SS LSU
Round 4: Ladarius Green TE Louisiana-Lafayette
Round 5: Johnnie Troutman G Penn State
Round 7: David Molk C Michigan
Round 7: Edwin Baker RB Michigan St.

Schedule:
Sept. 10 at Oakland Raiders (Mon.) 10:15 p.m.
Sept. 16 Tennessee Titans 4:15 p.m.
Sept. 23 Atlanta Falcons 4:05 p.m.
Sept. 30 at Kansas City Chiefs 1 p.m.
Oct. 7 at New Orleans Saints 8:20 p.m.
Oct. 15 Denver Broncos (Mon.) 8:30 p.m.
Oct. 21 BYE
Oct. 28 at Cleveland Browns 1 p.m.
Nov. 1 Kansas City Chiefs (Thurs.) 8:20 p.m.
Nov. 11 at Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1 p.m.
Nov. 18 at Denver Broncos 4:15 p.m.
Nov. 25 Baltimore Ravens 4:05 p.m.
Dec. 2 Cincinnati Bengals 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 9 at Pittsburgh Steelers 1 p.m.
Dec. 16 Carolina Panthers 4:05 p.m.
Dec. 23 at New York Jets * 8:20 p.m.
Dec. 30 Oakland Raiders 4:15 p.m.

Analysis: There was a time when the Chargers were considered the most talented team not just in the division, but in the NFL. Those times are gone. Age, free agency losses, and honestly, the hubris of AJ Smith has hurt the Chargers and the rest of the division has caught up to them the past couple years. Rivers was either hurt or doing drugs last season and refused to admit it. He had a very poor year. Were it not for some lucky (and uncharacteristic) early wins last season, the Chargers wouldn’t have even been a factor late in the year. They still have one of the worst special teams units in the NFL, posting last or near last in every stat. One area they did manage to improve is a reduction in the number TD returns. Some of the free agent signings are not adequate replacements for what was on the team. Brown in lieu of Tolbert? Do they really believe Eddie Royal and Robert Meachem are suitable replacements for Vincent Jackson and Patrick Crayton? And who is rushing the passer? The Chargers have some talent on the left of their offensive line, but the right is a weakness. Despite the struggles of Rivers last year they managed to finish in the top ten in offense and scoring. There’s been a lot of turnover the last few years, though.

Prediction 8-8: It is more likely that Rivers rebounds and plays better than that his poor performance last year was a sign of things to come. Their running game is suspect, and their receivers are new and watered down versions of what was their last year. Even so, Rivers can make it work and I think this will be a year he strings the rest of his team along. The poor special teams and average defense will make for things that even Rivers with good receivers won’t be able to overcome. The easier schedule on the front end means the Chargers might be able to avoid their chronically poor September, but I think on the back end they may have difficulty pulling the big wins out.

Kaylore
07-18-2012, 07:07 PM
The Denver Broncos
Last Season: 8-8 Division Champions

Veteran Additions: QB Peyton Manning, QB Caleb Hanie, WR Andre Caldwell, WR Brandon Stokley, TE Jacob Tamme, TE Joel Dreessen, DT Justin Bannan, CB Tracy Porter, CB Drayton Florence, S Mike Adams.

Offseason Losses: QB Tim Tebow, QB Brady Quinn, FB Spencer Larsen, WR Eddie Royal, DE Derrick Harvey, DT Brodrick Bunkley, DT Marcus Thomas, DT Ryan McBean, OLB Mario Haggan, CB Andre Goodman, S Brian Dawkins.

Draft Picks
Round 2: Derek Wolfe DT Cincinnati
Round 2: Brock Osweiler QB Arizona St.
Round 3: Ronnie Hillman RB San Diego St.
Round 4: Omar Bolden CB Arizona St.
Round 4: Phillip Blake C Baylor
Round 5: Malik Jackson DT Tennessee
Round 6: Danny Trevathan OLB Kentucky

Schedule:
Sept. 9 Pittsburgh Steelers 8:20 p.m.
Sept. 17 at Atlanta Falcons (Mon.) 8:30 p.m.
Sept. 23 Houston Texans 4:15 p.m.
Sept. 30 Oakland Raiders 4:05 p.m.
Oct. 7 at New England Patriots 4:15 p.m.
Oct. 15 at San Diego Chargers (Mon.) 8:30 p.m.
Oct. 21 BYE
Oct. 28 New Orleans Saints 8:20 p.m.
Nov. 4 at Cincinnati Bengals 1 p.m.
Nov. 11 at Carolina Panthers 1 p.m.
Nov. 18 San Diego Chargers 4:15 p.m.
Nov. 25 at Kansas City Chiefs 1 p.m.
Dec. 2 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4:05 p.m.
Dec. 6 at Oakland Raiders (Thurs.) 8:20 p.m.
Dec. 16 at Baltimore Ravens 1 p.m.
Dec. 23 Cleveland Browns 4:05 p.m.
Dec. 30 Kansas City Chiefs 4:15 p.m.

Analysis: Denver is one of the most intriguing teams in the NFL and I’m not just saying that as a fan. By the time the season begins, the Broncos will be starting their third QB in 8 months. In fact the only QB left over from last year is Adam Weber. Fortunately they were able to sign the biggest free agent since Reggie White in Peyton Manning, who hopes to play at least two or three more years. The rest of the additions have all been quite solid, particularly in the defensive back group. Denver also snagged two very solid pass-catching tight ends to go along with their young receiving corps in Tamme and Dreessen. The offense is facing a large re-tooling with Tebow gone as they move back to a more traditional offense. It’s going to be sink or swim for both Decker and Thomas. Thomas is athletically superior, but has shown signs of laziness and fragility. Decker is less athletic but more technical. Whether his work ethic and consistency will take another step remains to be seen. The offensive line will get Kuper back and hoping a more intelligent QB under center will help the offensive line perform better. The interior is a still a huge question, and it’s said that rookie Phillip Blake is going to push to start as Peyton’s center this season. Manning’s effect on the team has been immediate. He’s held personal practices away from the facility and is riding players hard on the field to push for perfection. He also is a much better passer then the Broncos receivers were used to last year. Manning inherited the number one rushing attack and number 31 passing attack in the NFL last year. Tebow was the reason for both those numbers being as high and as low as they were, respectively. It is unlikely Denver will run as effectively without Tebow on the roster, even if Ronnie Hillman has a good rookie season. However it is also very likely that Manning throws the ball with a good deal more efficacy than Tebow did. Jack Del Rio is perhaps the most underrated signing in the NFL this year. Brought in to help coordinate the Defense following Dennis Allen’s departure, Del Rio inherits a unit that finished in the twenties. There were some good moments for Denver’s defense, often rising to the occasion in clutch situations, but there were some ugly ones as well. Getting lit up by the Partiots, Packers and Lions really dragged their numbers down. Ty Warren is coming back, but his durability and motivation are a huge question mark, and with Bunkley gone to the Saints and Marcus Thomas unsigned, it is curious to see if Denver really thinks rookie Derek Wolfe is going to help out in any measurable form right away. Special teams will be looking to replace and underwhelming Eddie Royal as a returner and that should allow one of the low draft picks or even undrafted players a shot at making the team. Elway locked up Matt Prater with a new contract, and Britton Colquitt has quietly become one of the best punters in the league. Denver quietly had one of the best special teams in the league last year with the exception of their coverage unit which was middle of the road.

Prediction 10-6: Much has been made of Denver’s brutal schedule, some calling it the worst schedule in the last 15 years in the NFL. What no one is mentioning is the rest of the AFC West has to play the same schedule except for two games. With the rest of the AFC West facing effectively the same gauntlet of a schedule, it makes it more likely for a team in the AFC West to win. There will definitely be some growing pains as Manning and the rest of the Broncos develop their identity on offense. However Del Rio should continue to develop the progress made on defense, and his softer touch with players will allow some who became burned out on Dennis Allen’s scream sessions to find their confidence again. I think Denver wins the division because they are the most balanced. Adding Manning is a huge coup as his leadership alone pushes everyone to do more. This team is younger and more balanced than the one Manning last started for and Manning has a chip on his shoulder. Denver’s defense does need work, but they are trending in the right direction and can rush the passer. They also will be able to actually throw the ball which means fewer three and outs and that will make for a less tired team. The Broncos running game will be a priority under Fox and give Manning some time to grow into his new team. There is a tough road ahead, but I think by the end of the year Denver will be clicking and take the division.

oubronco
07-18-2012, 07:09 PM
Broncos 10-6
San Diego 8-8
Kansas City 6-10
Oakland 4-12

broncosteven
07-18-2012, 07:15 PM
Kahn's is the superior!

Ambiguous
07-18-2012, 07:33 PM
Very nice write up. Thanks!

Bob's your Information Minister
07-18-2012, 08:05 PM
That guy thinks the Chiefs have two rookie OTs?

Poorly informed.

Starters = Albert, Lilja, Hudson, Asamoah, Winston. All vets.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-18-2012, 08:09 PM
The article also made fun of the Chiefs pass rush, which was actually quite good once Justin Houston got going in the 2nd half.

Chiefs had something like 20 sacks in the last 8 games.

Overall though, I agree with the point that Cassel sucks balls and we can't beat good teams.

Marshall Dumervil
07-18-2012, 08:11 PM
With the rest of the AFC West facing effectively the same gauntlet of a schedule, it makes it more likely for a team in the AFC West to win.

Wtf does this mean? That a team from the AFC west will win the west?

delany
07-18-2012, 08:12 PM
Be sure to link to your crappy sources.

TJ and this site will get reamed if you don't acknowledge the incredibly poor authors that you cut and pasted from. You should know better than to quote a source that writes worse than the Bleacher Report.

Denver 12-4
San Diego 10-6
Oakland 8-8
Kansas City 6-10

gyldenlove
07-18-2012, 08:13 PM
I just don't see the Chargers floating this year - their offensive line was **** and got worse, their defense is steadily falling apart, they lost their biggest offensive weapon in Jackson and we saw last year that Gates is not quite the player he used to be. Norv Turner is the concrete block strapped around this teams feet as they slowly but surely sink into the muddy waters.

KCStud
07-18-2012, 08:13 PM
The Kansas City Chiefs
Last season: 7-9

Veteran Additions: QB Brady Quinn, RB Peyton Hillis, TE Kevin Boss, OT Eric Winston, DE/DT Ropati Pitoitua, CB Stanford Routt, HC Romeo Crennel (promoted).

Offseason Losses: QB Kyle Orton, RB Jackie Battle, FB Le'Ron McClain, TE Leonard Pope, OT Barry Richardson, C Casey Wiegmann, DE Wallace Gilberry, NT Kelly Gregg, CB Brandon Carr, S Jon McGraw, HC Todd Haley.

Draft Picks:

Round 1: Dontari Poe DT Memphis
Round 2: Jeff Allen OT Illinois
Round 3: Donald Stephenson OT Oklahoma
Round 4: Devon Wylie WR Fresno St.
Round 5: DeQuan Menzie CB Alabama
Round 6: Cyrus Gray RB Texas A&M
Round 7: Jerom Long DT San Diego St
Round 7: Junior Hemingway WR Michigan

Schedule:
Sept. 9 Atlanta Falcons 1 p.m.
Sept. 16 at Buffalo Bills 1 p.m.
Sept. 23 at New Orleans Saints 1 p.m.
Sept. 30 San Diego Chargers 1 p.m.
Oct. 7 Baltimore Ravens 1 p.m.
Oct. 14 at Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1 p.m.
Oct. 21 BYE
Oct. 28 Oakland Raiders 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 1 at San Diego Chargers (Thurs.) 8:20 p.m.
Nov. 12 at Pittsburgh Steelers (Mon.) 8:30 p.m.
Nov. 18 Cincinnati Bengals 1 p.m.
Nov. 25 Denver Broncos 1 p.m.
Dec. 2 Carolina Panthers 1 p.m.
Dec. 9 at Cleveland Browns 1 p.m.
Dec. 16 at Oakland Raiders 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 23 Indianapolis Colts 1 p.m.
Dec. 30 at Denver Broncos 4:15 p.m.

Analysis: The Chiefs started the season with some terrible luck with season ending injuries to their star running back Jamaal Charles, safety Eric Berry and their emerging tight end Tony Moeaki. Despite this, they still managed to 15th in rushing and 11th in total defense. With all three returning this season, it’s reasonable to assume they will continue improve on that this season. They have a solid special teams unit with the 8th best punt return average in the NFL and opponents had the fourth fewest kickoff return yards against them. I was a big fan of the way they threw a bunch of picks at offensive line. As an outsider, I would like to see the Chiefs go back to having arguably the best offensive line in the NFL the way they were in the early 2000. They also drafted Cyrus Gray, a big bruising back am sad to say I was a big fan of, and could be a perfect complement to Charles. Currently Bowe is holding out and it is looking likely he is willing to pull a Vincent Jackson and sit out the first ten games of the season. Steve Breston is a more than Solid number two but not a true number one and will not be able to fill that role. Jonathan Baldwin had a disappointing rookie year and hopes to improve going forward. It was pointed out to me that Baldwin was ranked 95th worst in drops last season. That doesn’t bode well for his transition.
The Chiefs were 24th in passing offense and were third in fewest passing touchdowns thrown last year. This of course is because of their biggest weakness, Matt Cassel. Cassel is woefully average, and while it could be worse, it will not be much better. Romeo Crenel took over and was able to get them a couple of late wins, but his career .350 winning percentage is essentially terrible.

Prediction 9-7: The Chiefs are the sexy pick to win the division. Technically, with the schedule the AFC West has this year, 9-7 could win it. I don’t believe they will, though. If the Chiefs get back to a ground game that is strong, they will be able to protect Cassel and lean on their defense. They have a team that could beat anyone if a few things go well. I correctly picked them to beat the Packers last year. This year I think losing Wiegman and getting two rookie tackles (wherever they play) means some transition on the offensive line. Unfortunately their schedule is absolutely brutal, and will require better QB play than they are capable of mustering. Against teams like the Saints, Ravens and Steelers, Cassel just does not have the ability to fire back if they get in a shoot-out. They also were tied for third fewest sacks in the NFL last year. Hali is basically a one man show, without any help it is less likely they get the stops they need to in critical situations. The deal-breaker for me is Crennel, who I consider another Wade Phillips in that they are both excellent coordinators and horrible head coaches. I expect their defense and running game to keep a lot of games close, but at the end of the season I think they’ll come up a bit short.

Stick to your own team, Gaylore.

KCStud
07-18-2012, 08:16 PM
There are more adjustments to the schedule than Gaylore realizes, like playing good teams at home while other division rivals play those good teams on the road.

lonestar
07-18-2012, 08:46 PM
overall a great synopsis of what should happen..

I do however place a higher value on schedule strength than you do.. and while everyone in the AFCW plays the teams, where they play them is a big factor..

I do think overall we have improved but I also remember that our schedule last years was the LAST place schedule and only eked out an 8-8 WL record..

this year we will be facing the creme de la creme of the league with 6 Play off teams. IIRC

Yes we may have a better WL than the others in the AFCW I hardly think it will be 12-4..

the team I fear the most is KC they have been sucking on teh top talent teat for a long time and for the most part have lacked in the coaching area.. I think Romeo will fix most of that..


the one thing that really jumped out at me was how far the talent level of the bolts seems to have fallen..

they had way more talent just a few years ago and they squashed us like a bug most of the times we played them..

broncosteven
07-18-2012, 09:28 PM
Be sure to link to your crappy sources.

TJ and this site will get reamed if you don't acknowledge the incredibly poor authors that you cut and pasted from. You should know better than to quote a source that writes worse than the Bleacher Report.

Denver 12-4
San Diego 10-6
Oakland 8-8
Kansas City 6-10


I thought Kahn did a great job on a write up breaking down the AFC west in this unsolicited thread he took the time to create.

I could see your argument if this were a burger Bill article but if this was a Burger Bill article it would be his best article/breakdown EVER!

Stop complaining and start objective replies stating your takes.

broncosteven
07-18-2012, 09:31 PM
I just don't see the Chargers floating this year - their offensive line was **** and got worse, their defense is steadily falling apart, they lost their biggest offensive weapon in Jackson and we saw last year that Gates is not quite the player he used to be. Norv Turner is the concrete block strapped around this teams feet as they slowly but surely sink into the muddy waters.

I am sure hoping that the window slams shut on SD this year. While I would love to see Norv be the HC for life I think at some point the SD fo will have to sack him when that happens I hope that it takes them a good decade to find a decent HC after Rivers has been all used up.

crush17
07-18-2012, 09:58 PM
Interesting to look at, thanks for the write up.

Pretty shocking to look at who the Raiders actually lost this season. There are a lot of good players in that list.

Also, San Diego did pretty damn well in free agency.

I don't know what to think of this division this year. I think the Chiefs will be better than a lot of us think, and it is so hard to predict the Broncos. I feel like I am almost too excited about the team they've built this season. Honestly if things click and the potential is realized, the Broncos will be a seriously good team. I optimistically say the floor is 10 wins and ceiling is probably about 12.

NFLBRONCO
07-18-2012, 10:12 PM
Pretty weird Atlanta plays AFC west first 3 weeks of the season

maher_tyler
07-18-2012, 10:25 PM
There are more adjustments to the schedule than Gaylore realizes, like playing good teams at home while other division rivals play those good teams on the road.

KC is not winning the division..get over it...unless Manning goes down, i honestly don't see any other team winning the AFCW.

BroncoMagic
07-18-2012, 10:37 PM
Stick to your own team, Gaylore.

You're more than welcome to leave....

broncocalijohn
07-18-2012, 10:40 PM
Interesting to look at, thanks for the write up.

Pretty shocking to look at who the Raiders actually lost this season. There are a lot of good players in that list.

Also, San Diego did pretty damn well in free agency.

I don't know what to think of this division this year. I think the Chiefs will be better than a lot of us think, and it is so hard to predict the Broncos. I feel like I am almost too excited about the team they've built this season. Honestly if things click and the potential is realized, the Broncos will be a seriously good team. I optimistically say the floor is 10 wins and ceiling is probably about 12.

Not sure on SD. They took Chiefs FB but their replacement of CLayton and Jackson doesnt seem up to par. If Royal helps them with their return game will be a plus as he wont be returning any against the Chargers now.
Chiefs stay healthy with a better schedule than the others can help. Romeo being head coach might not.

Good job Kaylore!

Bacchus
07-19-2012, 12:12 AM
The Denver Broncos
Last Season: 8-8 Division Champions

Ty Warren is coming back, but his durability and motivation are a huge question mark.

Why is Ty Warren's motivation being questioned? I have never heard of anyone ever question his motivation or work ethic until now. He is on a one year contract, he is healthy. I'll bet he is the most motivated person on the Broncos roster.

Prodigal19
07-19-2012, 12:22 AM
That guy thinks the Chiefs have two rookie OTs?

Poorly informed.

Starters = Albert, Lilja, Hudson, Asamoah, Winston. All vets.

Round 2: Jeff Allen OT Illinois
Round 3: Donald Stephenson OT Oklahoma

The Chiefs have two rookie OTs. He never said anything about them starting. The fact is that when you draft OTs in the 2nd and 3rd round and lose your center, there is going to be some transition on the offensive line.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-19-2012, 12:32 AM
He implies they will start.

Especially since he didn't even bring up Eric Winston, our new RT and major FA signing.

penguintheory
07-19-2012, 12:39 AM
He implies they will start.

Especially since he didn't even bring up Eric Winston, our new RT and major FA signing.

Trololol

Bob's your Information Minister
07-19-2012, 03:56 AM
Look, I think the Chiefs suck, dip****. We're probably a 7-9 team.

But our OL is pretty ****ing good and we have two pretty good OTs.

So **** off with this breaking in rookies ****. The only thing those rookies are going to be breaking is the splinters they pick out of their ass from sitting on the bench behind our stud tackles.

And FYI, one of those rookies is a ****ing guard, so get your **** right. No-research doing dip****.

Kaylore
07-19-2012, 06:34 AM
He implies they will start.

Especially since he didn't even bring up Eric Winston, our new RT and major FA signing.

I'm not a big Winston Fan. I think he could play some guard, and he may start at tackle, but if they felt good about their offensive line, they wouldn't have thrown two second day picks at the position, even if their board demanded it. They may ride the pine all year, but I suspect at least one of them plays at tackle or guard.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 07:03 AM
The Oakland Raiders
Last season: 8-8

Offseason Losses: QB Jason Campbell, RB Michael Bush, WR Chaz Schilens, TE Kevin Boss, OT Stephon Heyer, G Bruce Campbell, C Samson Satele, DE/OLB Kamerion Wimbley, DE Trevor Scott, DE Jarvis Moss, DE Quentin Groves, DT John Henderson, ILB Darryl Blackstock, CB Stanford Routt, CB Chris Johnson, CB Lito Sheppard.

Veteran Additions: QB Matt Leinart, RB Mike Goodson, FB Owen Schmitt, G Mike Brisiel, DE Dave Tollefson, OLB Philip Wheeler, CB Shawntae Spencer, CB Ronald Bartell, CB Patrick Lee, HC Dennis Allen.

Draft Picks:

Round 3: Tony Bergstrom OT Utard
Round 4: Miles Burris OLB San Diego St.
Round 5: Jack Crowford DE Penn St.
Round 5: Juron Criner WR Arizona
Round 6: Christo Bilukidi DE Georgia St.
Round 7: Nathan Stupar OLB Penn St.

Schedule:
Sept. 10 San Diego Chargers (Mon.) 10:15 p.m.
Sept. 16 at Miami Dolphins 4:15 p.m.
Sept. 23 Pittsburgh Steelers 4:15 p.m.
Sept. 30 at Denver Broncos 4:05 p.m.
Oct. 7 BYE
Oct. 14 at Atlanta Falcons 1 p.m.
Oct. 21 Jacksonville Jaguars 4:15 p.m.
Oct. 28 at Kansas City Chiefs 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 4 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 11 at Baltimore Ravens 1 p.m.
Nov. 18 New Orleans Saints 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 25 at Cincinnati Bengals 1 p.m.
Dec. 2 Cleveland Browns 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 6 Denver Broncos (Thurs.) 8:20 p.m.
Dec. 16 Kansas City Chiefs 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 23 at Carolina Panthers 1 p.m.
Dec. 30 at San Diego Chargers 4:15 p.m.

Analysis: Oakland was part of the three way tie between the Broncos and Chargers that could have won the division. Injuries and player transitions were a big reason the offense stumbled. The defense falling to 29th in the league didn’t help either. Predictably, they are firing their coach (again) and signed a really young replacement with little experience in Dennis Allen, who two years ago was a secondary coach and came from a team he coached to 20th in defense and 24th in scoring (which admittedly was a step forward), Outside of Juron Criner and Tony Bergstrom, their draft class is too small to expect any kind of immediate help there. Palmer is a big factor. If he improves, he could help them through a rough schedule that includes some horrible back-and-forth to the East Coast in the middle of the season. More likely, he will be the same Carson Palmer that we’ve seen for several years: Moments of brilliance in an overall mediocre show. Darren McFadden will be back, which should help, but expect some fallout as Michael Bush is out, and putting more carries on a clearly fragile McFadden will not bode well for his long term reliability next seasons. Running backs don’t get more durable the more they play. Also, every coach who was part of their vaunted running game is now gone. Their defensive line took a hit with Wimbley gone, and the rest of the unit is starting to show its age, so there may be some fallout there. I do think Oakland’s receivers are underrated and there is some fantasy value at the position, especially when you consider they’re going to be throwing a lot to keep up this year.

Prediction 5-11: I think this is a transition year for the Raiders (isn’t every year?). They’ve lost too many free agents the past two years and given up too many draft picks for players with ho-hum ability to see any short-term grown. The good news for them is Al Davis is gone and they will no longer just be drafting the fastest guy in underwear at every position, so there is some hope that things will turn around, but not for several years. With a hard schedule, too many new pieces, and not very reliable ones on the roster, I don’t expect much from the Raiders this season.

The raiders are walking away with the division and would have done so last year if they were healthy last season. With a healthy DMC and C Palmer their isn't a team in the AFc West stopping them. ( what has DMc averaged against the Broncos )

The Raiders without a doubt have the best offense in the division(should be a top five offense) . They have so many explosive weapons on offense. Three Rbs that can score from anywhere whether it a pass or run( DMC, M Goodson and taiwan jones) , the best Wr corp(not single wr but as group) D Moore, Jacoby Ford , DHB and Now Juron Criner blows away what anyone else has in the division. a Fb Marcel reece no one in divison can match. Eeven at Te ( this TE friendly offense) Ausberry 6'4 265 sub 4.5 and D gordon 6'4 265 4.63 are freak athletes. The Raiders at worst have the second best oline and case could be made that it might be the best.

Now defense. Raiders Dline is the best in the division . They have a big advanatge against any team in the division Offense line. (Raiders will know where P Manning is and let bsee if that oline can protect him) How many sacksa did Broncos give up being a predominantly a running team. (now they are going to put more on that Oline)

Raiders always had talent on defense. They had bad schemes. That's not the case anymore. Raiders have a defensive coach now as head coach. With the firepower they have on offense, they just need an average defense next yaer. Easy can get to that level next season. Raiders get higher this team capable as going as far as anyone in Afc.

Raiders have the best kicking game in the division.

The media can hype the Bronco's(this year eagles) or the Chargers(yesterday news) but when its all said and done the AFc west is a two team face between the Raiders and Chiefs.

NO Dj williams first six games and NO Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) and this Bronco team is so overrated.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 07:11 AM
I'm not a big Winston Fan. I think he could play some guard, and he may start at tackle, but if they felt good about their offensive line, they wouldn't have thrown two second day picks at the position, even if their board demanded it. They may ride the pine all year, but I suspect at least one of them plays at tackle or guard.

I agree L Houston dominated Eric winston last year. (his strength run blocking and L Houston controlled him there) Eric winston is not the best pass protector around. I think he isn't going to fare as well in the AFC west. Not to mention KC blocking scheme is alot different than the one he played in Houston.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-19-2012, 07:13 AM
He implies they will start.

Especially since he didn't even bring up Eric Winston, our new RT and major FA signing.

Clayton complaining about inaccurate reporting? Now I've heard everything.

Requiem
07-19-2012, 07:14 AM
Raider9175 is already loaded and it is not even 7:30 AM on the left coast.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 07:20 AM
Raider9175 is already loaded and it is not even 7:30 AM on the left coast.

No that the Raiders offense that loaded. Again what has DMc averaged against that vaunted Broncos defense. Hey Tebow might not have been an NFl Qb but Im glad he gone. That Denver running game isn't that good and their oline can't pass protect. (now your going to try and throw it more- not good with a guy with three to four neck injuries. What the overv and under when Caleb hanie is the Broncos starter.

The way bronco defenders are getting arrested and facing suspensions. P manning could be at his besty and it still not going to matter. You can't make chicken salad out of Chicken crap.

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 07:22 AM
Stick to your own team, Gaylore.

You are a child.

JJG
07-19-2012, 07:24 AM
The raiders are walking away with the division and would have done so last year if they were healthy last season. With a healthy DMC and C Palmer their isn't a team in the AFc West stopping them. ( what has DMc averaged against the Broncos )

The Raiders without a doubt have the best offense in the division(should be a top five offense) . They have so many explosive weapons on offense. Three Rbs that can score from anywhere whether it a pass or run( DMC, M Goodson and taiwan jones) , the best Wr corp(not single wr but as group) D Moore, Jacoby Ford , DHB and Now Juron Criner blows away what anyone else has in the division. a Fb Marcel reece no one in divison can match. Eeven at Te ( this TE friendly offense) Ausberry 6'4 265 sub 4.5 and D gordon 6'4 265 4.63 are freak athletes. The Raiders at worst have the second best oline and case could be made that it might be the best.

Now defense. Raiders Dline is the best in the division . They have a big advanatge against any team in the division Offense line. (Raiders will know where P Manning is and let bsee if that oline can protect him) How many sacksa did Broncos give up being a predominantly a running team. (now they are going to put more on that Oline)

Raiders always had talent on defense. They had bad schemes. That's not the case anymore. Raiders have a defensive coach now as head coach. With the firepower they have on offense, they just need an average defense next yaer. Easy can get to that level next season. Raiders get higher this team capable as going as far as anyone in Afc.

Raiders have the best kicking game in the division.

The media can hype the Bronco's(this year eagles) or the Chargers(yesterday news) but when its all said and done the AFc west is a two team face between the Raiders and Chiefs.

NO Dj williams first six games and NO Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) and this Bronco team is so overrated.

You heard it here first folks. The rest of the division might as well shut it down and resume football in 2013

Requiem
07-19-2012, 07:24 AM
No that the Raiders offense that loaded. Again what has DMc averaged against that vaunted Broncos defense. Hey Tebow might not have been an NFl Qb but Im glad he gone. That Denver running game isn't that good and their oline can't pass protect. (now your going to try and throw it more- not good with a guy with three to four neck injuries. What the overv and under when Caleb hanie is the Broncos starter.

The way bronco defenders are getting arrested and facing suspensions. P manning could be at his besty and it still not going to matter. You can't make chicken salad out of Chicken crap.

This is gross.

Kaylore
07-19-2012, 07:28 AM
overall a great synopsis of what should happen..

I do however place a higher value on schedule strength than you do.. and while everyone in the AFCW plays the teams, where they play them is a big factor..

I do think overall we have improved but I also remember that our schedule last years was the LAST place schedule and only eked out an 8-8 WL record..

this year we will be facing the creme de la creme of the league with 6 Play off teams. IIRC

Yes we may have a better WL than the others in the AFCW I hardly think it will be 12-4..

the team I fear the most is KC they have been sucking on teh top talent teat for a long time and for the most part have lacked in the coaching area.. I think Romeo will fix most of that..


the one thing that really jumped out at me was how far the talent level of the bolts seems to have fallen..

they had way more talent just a few years ago and they squashed us like a bug most of the times we played them..

I disagree on Romeo. I think the players will play hard for him since he isn't Todd Haley at first, but when the Crenelling sets in, they will come up short. Romeo is a coordinator.

I do agree that the Chargers have really fallen off. AJ Smith hit on some really good picks a few years ago in Brees, LT, Merriman and Sproles. I don't give him credit for Rivers since he was the boobie prize. All of those guys are gone except Rivers. Meachem and Royal? Please.

Requiem
07-19-2012, 07:29 AM
Don't quote lonestar ever again. Most of us have him on ignore. STOP.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 07:31 AM
You heard it here first folks. The rest of the division might as well shut it down and resume football in 2013

Only difference between the 2011 Eagles and 2012 Bronco's is the Eagles had so much more talent . The Bronco's have a better chance of being in last place in the Afc West, than they have of winning the division.

Media Just hyping Bronco because of Peyton Manning. Lets see manning playing in an offense he never played with, has not even close the talent on offense he had with Colts, and last it a lousy pass blocking oline he playing behind.

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 07:31 AM
The Raiders without a doubt have the best offense in the division(should be a top five offense)

lololololol.

Kaylore
07-19-2012, 07:36 AM
The raiders are walking away with the division and would have done so last year if they were healthy last season. With a healthy DMC and C Palmer their isn't a team in the AFc West stopping them. ( what has DMc averaged against the Broncos )

The Raiders without a doubt have the best offense in the division(should be a top five offense) . They have so many explosive weapons on offense. Three Rbs that can score from anywhere whether it a pass or run( DMC, M Goodson and taiwan jones) , the best Wr corp(not single wr but as group) D Moore, Jacoby Ford , DHB and Now Juron Criner blows away what anyone else has in the division. a Fb Marcel reece no one in divison can match. Eeven at Te ( this TE friendly offense) Ausberry 6'4 265 sub 4.5 and D gordon 6'4 265 4.63 are freak athletes. The Raiders at worst have the second best oline and case could be made that it might be the best.

Now defense. Raiders Dline is the best in the division . They have a big advanatge against any team in the division Offense line. (Raiders will know where P Manning is and let bsee if that oline can protect him) How many sacksa did Broncos give up being a predominantly a running team. (now they are going to put more on that Oline)

Raiders always had talent on defense. They had bad schemes. That's not the case anymore. Raiders have a defensive coach now as head coach. With the firepower they have on offense, they just need an average defense next yaer. Easy can get to that level next season. Raiders get higher this team capable as going as far as anyone in Afc.

Raiders have the best kicking game in the division.

The media can hype the Bronco's(this year eagles) or the Chargers(yesterday news) but when its all said and done the AFc west is a two team face between the Raiders and Chiefs.

NO Dj williams first six games and NO Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) and this Bronco team is so overrated.

The Raiders were four stops from the worst defense in the league last year and lost Wimbley. The rest of their D-line is on the wrong side of thirty. So how exactly are they better this year? Tell me?

As for their offense, McFadden has never made it through an entire season healthy - ever. Name one RB who was chronically injured his first years in the league who suddenly became durable. The receivers are pretty good, but Carson isn't. He isn't even a top ten QB in this league. And with new coaching staff on offense, there will be fallout. Who's your tight end?

And Britton Colquit out-punted Lechler last year, and our special teams unit ranked better, so no, you don't have "the best kicking game." DJ Williams was never a play maker, and lately when he plays he hasn't played very well. losing him isn't a big setback. And Dumerville isn't going to be suspended six games, no matter how much you hope.

gyldenlove
07-19-2012, 07:41 AM
I am sure hoping that the window slams shut on SD this year. While I would love to see Norv be the HC for life I think at some point the SD fo will have to sack him when that happens I hope that it takes them a good decade to find a decent HC after Rivers has been all used up.

Meh, he has 2 years left on an illadvised contract extension, if they don't fire him during this season I would be prepared to bet a substantial amount of beer that they will let him play out his lame-duck season in 2013 and let him go - they are so cheap in San Diego.

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 07:41 AM
No that the Raiders offense that loaded. Again what has DMc averaged against that vaunted Broncos defense. Hey Tebow might not have been an NFl Qb but Im glad he gone. That Denver running game isn't that good and their oline can't pass protect. (now your going to try and throw it more- not good with a guy with three to four neck injuries. What the overv and under when Caleb hanie is the Broncos starter.

The way bronco defenders are getting arrested and facing suspensions. P manning could be at his besty and it still not going to matter. You can't make chicken salad out of Chicken crap.

DMC will be out for the season by Week 6, and your teams dumb*** FO let Bush, who was more productive, walk.

oubronco
07-19-2012, 07:45 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_2LtZ1lp19eI/SL4uU6bv-sI/AAAAAAAAAVU/ZlRzrEpGsDo/s400/raiders+loss.jpg

oubronco
07-19-2012, 07:46 AM
http://thisorthat.com/blog-images/raiders-suck.jpg

Requiem
07-19-2012, 07:48 AM
I ate a can of baked beans last night. It just came out. Kinda looked like the Raiders fan base.

JJG
07-19-2012, 07:52 AM
The Raiders were four stops from the worst defense in the league last year and lost Wimbley. The rest of their D-line is on the wrong side of thirty. So how exactly are they better this year? Tell me?

As for their offense, McFadden has never made it through an entire season healthy - ever. Name one RB who was chronically injured his first years in the league who suddenly became durable. The receivers are pretty good, but Carson isn't. He isn't even a top ten QB in this league. And with new coaching staff on offense, there will be fallout. Who's your tight end?

And Britton Colquit out-punted Lechler last year, and our special teams unit ranked better, so no, you don't have "the best kicking game." DJ Williams was never a play maker, and lately when he plays he hasn't played very well. losing him isn't a big setback. And Dumerville isn't going to be suspended six games, no matter how much you hope.

They have the most athletic, freak of nature TE's the league has ever seen. Didn't you read his post?

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 07:55 AM
They have the most athletic, freak of nature TE's the league has ever seen. Didn't you read his post?

This. The Raiders have been drowning in success for the past decade thanks to finding these athletic freak 4th rounders and stealing them in the 1st.

Kaylore
07-19-2012, 07:59 AM
They have the most athletic, freak of nature TE's the league has ever seen. Didn't you read his post?

Yes. You can see the dead, brittle hands of Al Davis still pulling the strings of Raider fans.

"Our TE is so athletic!"

"Yeah, but he sucks at football."

"1983 was awesome!"

"Ok, loser."

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 08:12 AM
The Raiders were for stops from the worst defense in the league last year and lost Wimbley. The rest of their D-line is on the wrong side of thirty. So how exactly are they better this year? Tell me?

As for their offense, McFadden has never made it through an entire season healthy - ever. Name one RB who was chronically injured his first years in the league who suddenly became durable. The receivers are pretty good, but Carson isn't. He isn't even a top ten QB in this league. And with new coaching staff on offense, there will be fallout. Who's your tight end?

And Britton Colquit out-punted Lechler last year, and our special teams unit ranked better, so no, you don't have "the best kicking game." DJ Williams was never a play maker, and lately when he plays he hasn't played very well. losing him isn't a big setback. And Dumerville isn't going to be suspended six games, no matter how much you hope.

Lets me tell me how raiders defense improves(First off what was Broncos defense in 2010 and where did rank in 2011) Raiders front four with the return of Matt Shaughnessy is the best Dline in the divison(your really going to argue this one) LDE 6'3 305 L houston LDT T Kelly 6'6 305 RDT R seymour 6'6 310 and RDe matt shaughnessy 6'5 270(Ir after third game)


Here is what the raiders did. First Raiders are going to play multiple fronts 4-3 and 3-4 with a variety of coverage packages. Out are the one dimensional pass rushers DE( T Scott , j Moss, K wimbley) that couldn't play the run. IN are two way Dlineman. Desmond Bryant 6'5 290 , David toffelson 6'4 266 , jack Crawford 6'5 274 , Cristo Bilukidi 6'5 311, and travis Ivey 6'4 345

NOW Raiders problems on defense were there LB couldn't cover and they had no depth. (not to mention Mlb played with a leg injury)
You know Dennis allen defense Raiders are going to be blitzing their Lbs and their safeties. Go look at the type of Lb Raiders added. All those guys have coverage ability and can rush the passer. In freeagency. Philip Wheeler( K wimbley replacement at Sslb) He plays very well in zone coverage. He not the passer rusher Wimbley was but he an upgrade at Sslb. Now go look UP Miles Burris, Kaelin Burnett, and nathan Stupar its no accident all three had the highest three cone drill (coverage) out of all the lbs . All are capable of rushing the qb.

NOw Raiders are going to be playing alot more zone this year.(giving a lot of looks) S Routt didn't fit the new scheme. He a man to man cb who was near the top when theyn were playing predominatly man to man(al davis was alive, When davis died they started to incorporate more zone packages. he wasn't good and he dropped like a rock in the rankings. They brought in two zone Cb's Ron bartell 6'1 210 and shawtae Spencer 6'1 190 . Last year rookie Cb's Chimdi Chekwa(very good zone cb) and DVD 6'1 180 . DVD coverage was tight last year but he just didn't turn around and make a play on the ball. Playing off and looking at the Qb he going to be able to get a good break on the ball.

So You have Cb's playing Zone and you they seriously upgraded their coverage ability at LB(playing the passing lanes) . Should make it a lot tougher to exploit this Raider defense.

Raiders have two safeties capable of taking out anyone Te's. Tyvon Branch and M Huff. Huff due to injuries had to play out of place at Cb last year. Both with their 4.3 speed are going to be rushing. (just won't be seven yards back ala Bresnahan defense last year when they do)

DMC has never had surgery. He has low miles on the tires. In this stretch zone blocking scheme he and the other rbs(T Jones and M goodson) are going to do some serious damage. Not to mention are just as dangerous receiving threats. making C palmer job much easier. (alot of safe passes to back).

carson plamer has so much talent on thios Raider ofense. He will be easy a top ten passer and good chance he could be top five. (hes going to have his best season ever,. This offense is very Qb friendly.
Te's. - In Last year offense the Te's were there for blocking and the offense revolved around the Wr be the play makers. So Ausberry didn't play. Ausberry everyone knows can catch. (as a former wr) He now up to265 pounds. (jsut as fast sub 4.5) How he blocks will determine if he the starter. R gordon is the opposite he a great blocker who a very raw receiver at 265 he has 4.63(still very fast) In this TYe friendly offense these guys are going to be weapons.

Kicking game you have to count place Kickers. The Bronco kicking game can't match Shane Lecher and sebastian jankowski.(stop with the nonsense)

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 08:15 AM
Everything you said is wrong. Good job.
Are you in high school yet?

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 08:36 AM
This. The Raiders have been drowning in success for the past decade thanks to finding these athletic freak 4th rounders and stealing them in the 1st.

First off jacoby Ford - Fourth rounder. Denarius moore - fifth rounder. and Now Juron Criner- fifth round. That is some great drafting at WR.(what steals) Now DHB starting to play like a first rounder and that wr corp is as explosive as anyone in the game. Not to mention have the youngest offense in the division.

David Ausberry was the top high school recruit in the nation at Wr. He had some injuries at USC. The guy is a beast. A 6'4 265 Te with sub 4.5 speed . (watch what he does in this houston Texans type offense- very Te friendly scheme due to scheme alot of te are going to come free) R Gordon anothyer 6'4 265 with 4.63 is going to also going to have a big year.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 08:40 AM
Everything you said is wrong. Good job.
Are you in high school yet?

Wow that was weak. Go ahead and come up with some substance. You going to talk football or you can't. which one is it.

Requiem
07-19-2012, 08:40 AM
Wow that was weak. Go ahead and come up with some substance. You going to talk football or you can't. which one is it.

We will talk football if you check yourself into re-hab.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 08:48 AM
We will talk football if you check yourself into re-hab.

Outside of Peyton maning(if he the real peyton manning) Tell me where on offense, the Broncos are not near the bottom in the division.. (RBs- without tebow that running game garbage, WR, and Oline)

Your defense isn't anything to write home about. A healthy DMC and Jamaal Charles and you really think your stopping either running game.

Dummerville will be sacking Bubba in prison. EDJ williams has a nice non pay vaction for six weeks because he a cheater. nah the Broncos are going to be awesome because they can over come anything. Peyton manning might not even make it to the fifth week.

With the money the Bronco had to play with Horse tooth Elway really didn't get bang for his buck. This Denver put all their eggs in one basket. Get use to the basement, you will be there for awhile. (after this blows up in your face)

Requiem
07-19-2012, 08:55 AM
Is it hard being addicted to meth, Raider9175?

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 08:58 AM
Is it hard being addicted to meth, Raider9175?

Wow you got me. Your football knowledge is so apparent. Can't you come up with a decent counter point. Surely there has to be one Bronco fan who can debate me.

Requiem
07-19-2012, 09:00 AM
Wow you got me. Your football knowledge is so apparent. Can't you come up with a decent counter point. Surely there has to be one Bronco fan who can debate me.

The spirit of the Raiders evaporated with Al Davis. Goooooooooooooodbye!

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 09:03 AM
The spirit of the Raiders evaporated with Al Davis. Goooooooooooooodbye!

Translation I can't debate you, I only know european football. Goodbye. Is this the typical Bronco fan. That was pathetic .

Bacillus Anthracis
07-19-2012, 09:03 AM
The Raiders went 8-8 last season after losing their starting quarterback, running back, and 2/3 of their starting wr corps. Also, the Raiders fielded the worst defense in the history of the organization. In addition, Al croaking threw a short term wrench into the machine (long term we all know the deal). And despite all that, they were still in it in the final quarter of the final game of the season.

It's funny that people say we lost significant players. The only guy we got rid of that was worth a damn was Michael Bush.

Stanford Routt was the most penalized CB in the league and Kameron Wimbley flat out sucked. Take away the one game against Chargers in which he recorded 4 sacks against a 3rd string T and that leaves him with 3 sacks in the other 15 games. Good riddance to bad trash. Routt and Wimbley were overpaid underperformers.

The Raider defense will be better. If you subtracted Al's antiquated D that was then hybridized by the anti-genius, Chuck Bresnahan, and then put 11 guys out on the field to draw up plays on the turf, the defense would improve.

Simply put, if Knapp doesn't F up the offense and if the defense is only competent, Oakland will go to the playoffs. Of course this assumes a healthy team.

It's funny that despite the fact that Oakland has the best record in the conference against conference opponents over the last two years, everyone still picks us to be the worst in the division. This is a team that needed some tweaks, not a gigantic overhaul.

OTOH, while the offense is the biggest asset, it's also a big concern because of Greg Knapp. Had Reggie McKenzie just kept Al Saunders in charge of the offense, I would predict us to be a top 10 offense, without question. But Knapp has changed things up considerably and so it's a question mark. It's the only thing I'm worried about.

Bronco Rob
07-19-2012, 09:04 AM
In oakland

The raiders haven't had a 1,000 yard receiver since 2005 or had one that made the pro bowl since 2002. The starting TE has two career receptions, McFadden has missed 16 starts in 4 seasons.

Darrius Heyward-Bey 900 yards 4 touchdowns
Denarius Moore 600 yards 5 touchdowns and
Jacoby Ford 279 yards 1 touchdown

Carson Palmer is 50-56 as a starter in the NFL and Tebow has won more playoff games than he has.

The raiders haven't posted a winning record in nine straight seasons, including seven seasons with at least eleven losses, an NFL record. I predict more of the same this season.



:thumbs:

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 09:08 AM
First off jacoby Ford - Fourth rounder. Denarius moore - fifth rounder. and Now Juron Criner- fifth round. That is some great drafting at WR.(what steals) Now DHB starting to play like a first rounder and that wr corp is as explosive as anyone in the game. Not to mention have the youngest offense in the division.

David Ausberry was the top high school recruit in the nation at Wr. He had some injuries at USC. The guy is a beast. A 6'4 265 Te with sub 4.5 speed . (watch what he does in this houston Texans type offense- very Te friendly scheme due to scheme alot of te are going to come free) R Gordon anothyer 6'4 265 with 4.63 is going to also going to have a big year.

You've been a raiders fan for at least 10 years, and you still drink this 'freak athlete with potential' koolaid. Staying true to the deluded retards that have comprised oakland's fan base for the past embarrassing decade.

DHB is not starting to play like a 1st rounder, he can't catch a cold but is fast in a straight line. That's the raider's skill position blueprint.

Wow that was weak. Go ahead and come up with some substance. You going to talk football or you can't. which one is it.
Your grammar, sentence structure, and spelling abilities are comparable to those of a 5th grader.

Not only that, but you type out these long winded dissertations filled with delusions, promises and hope. Perhaps we're both lacking 'substance'.

Your team is a running punchline and has been for a decade. For that, we thank you.

Requiem
07-19-2012, 09:10 AM
Translation I can't debate you, I only know european football. Goodbye. Is this the typical Bronco fan. That was pathetic .

I hope you overcome your drug addiction.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 09:14 AM
In oakland

The raiders haven't had a 1,000 yard receiver since 2005 or had one that made the pro bowl since 2002. The starting TE has two career receptions, McFadden has missed 16 starts in 4 seasons.

Darrius Heyward-Bey 900 yards 4 touchdowns
Denarius Moore 600 yards 5 touchdowns and
Jacoby Ford 279 yards 1 touchdown

Carson Palmer is 50-56 as a starter in the NFL and Tebow has won more playoff games than he has.

The raiders haven't posted a winning record in nine straight seasons, including seven seasons with at least eleven losses, an NFL record. I predict more of the same this season.



:thumbs:

Raiders were a top ten offense the last two years. Can you say that. Could very well be a top five offense this year. The Bronco can't as even if Manning is his old self, their talent around him isn't very good.

Your defense isn't that good. When was the last time DMC didn't go off on that defense. Only reason Broncos weren't swept again last year by the Raiders is they lost their starting Qb and their starting RB. Raiders put out a healthy offense(M reece, J Ford, DMC and palmer) and that overrated Bronco defense isn't stopping it.

Get ready for the excuses after week four when raiders come to Denver with another win. (Raiders second home away from home)

Bacillus Anthracis
07-19-2012, 09:14 AM
David Ausberry was the top high school recruit in the nation at Wr. He had some injuries at USC. The guy is a beast. A 6'4 265 Te with sub 4.5 speed . (watch what he does in this houston Texans type offense- very Te friendly scheme due to scheme alot of te are going to come free) R Gordon anothyer 6'4 265 with 4.63 is going to also going to have a big year.

I wouldn't be bragging about Ausberry. He had what, one catch last year and didn't even play TE in college. He's a project and was a bad draft pick. We had a good TE in Kevin Boss but we'll be okay because Brandon Myers is capable.

I don't care how big, tall, or fast Ausberry is, he hasn't done anything on the field and most projects and conversions never do. I guarantee Myers will be the best TE on this team this season and probably next.

Besides with the ability of WRs and RBs have, a TE is more valuable as an extra blocker and safety valve.

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 09:17 AM
Outside of Peyton maning(if he the real peyton manning) Tell me where on offense, the Broncos are not near the bottom in the division.. (RBs- without tebow that running game garbage, WR, and Oline)
You guys got rid of your only RB capable of playing more than 6 games. So ya McGahee on the field is better than DMC on the bench.

Your defense isn't anything to write home about. A healthy DMC and Jamaal Charles and you really think your stopping either running game.

LOL, both players were on IR last year, and a 'healthy' version of DMC is like a raiders fan with a PHD.

Dummerville will be sacking Bubba in prison. EDJ williams has a nice non pay vaction for six weeks because he a cheater. nah the Broncos are going to be awesome because they can over come anything. Peyton manning might not even make it to the fifth week.
DJ is the epitome of average, unfulfilled potential. If doom is suspended, it's likely it wont be till next year. Carson LOLmer might not even make it to the fifth week, but for Denver's sake, I hope he is. 2 firsts+extras for him? lolololol.

With the money the Bronco had to play with Horse tooth Elway really didn't get bang for his buck. This Denver put all their eggs in one basket. Get use to the basement, you will be there for awhile. (after this blows up in your face)

lol.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 09:24 AM
I wouldn't be bragging about Ausberry. He had what, one catch last year and didn't even play TE in college. He's a project and was a bad draft pick. We had a good TE in Kevin Boss but we'll be okay because Brandon Myers is capable.

I don't care how big, tall, or fast Ausberry is, he hasn't done anything on the field and most projects and conversions never do. I guarantee Myers will be the best TE on this team this season and probably next.

Besides with the ability of WRs and RBs have, a TE is more valuable as an extra blocker and safety valve.

David Ausberry and R gordon are going to be big weapons for the Raiders next year because this new system is very TE friendly.(this isn't hue Jackson offense- offense goes through the WR) IF that piece of crap Joel dreesen could look decent in Houston Texans offense, you better believe both Raiders Te with actual talent will too.(similar offense)

Every Raider starting QB from Jason Campbell and carson Plamer says Ausberry has a chance to be a star in this league. Everyone knows the KId can catch. The only question with him is , has his blocking improved enough to be the starter. Its immaterial what both Te's put up last year as the offense was totally different.

The raider wr won't put up the numbers because in this offense the backs(Raiders have three of the most explosive) and Te are a big part of the passing offense.

Bronco Rob
07-19-2012, 09:31 AM
The Denver Broncos aren't without sympathy for the raiders nine season plight (second longest playoff drought in the NFL)...we let you pick through our garbage to find your 7th head coach in 10 seasons.....You're welcome!!!


Thanks again for Jack Del Rio!

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 09:34 AM
Every Raider starting QB from Jason Campbell and carson Plamer says Ausberry has a chance to be a star in this league.

Well cotdayum why even vote for the probowl? Get this guy to hawaii already.


Just look at these college numbers: @USC 4 years. 64 receptions for 700 yards, 7 touchdowns.

That's 10+ catches, 100+ yards, and almost 2 freaking TD's a year. Dude is a monster.

Kaylore
07-19-2012, 09:37 AM
Only reason Broncos weren't swept again last year by the Raiders is they lost their starting Qb and their starting RB. Raiders put out a healthy offense(M reece, J Ford, DMC and palmer) and that overrated Bronco defense isn't stopping it.

Get ready for the excuses after week four when raiders come to Denver with another win. (Raiders second home away from home)

Hilarious! You beat us by 3 points, and it took Orton literally dropping the ball into your hands on your own thirty to win, and then we destroyed you in your house once Orton was benched. You were a slippery hand away from getting swept.

Bronco Rob
07-19-2012, 09:38 AM
Hilarious! You beat us by 3 points, and it took Orton literally dropping the ball into your hands on your own thirty to win, and then we destroyed you in your house once Orton was benched. You were a slippery hand away from getting swept.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FhR4p6fFZBk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


:thumbs:

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 09:40 AM
You guys got rid of your only RB capable of playing more than 6 games. So ya McGahee on the field is better than DMC on the bench.

LOL, both players were on IR last year, and a 'healthy' version of DMC is like a raiders fan with a PHD.

DJ is the epitome of average, unfulfilled potential. If doom is suspended, it's likely it wont be till next year. Carson LOLmer might not even make it to the fifth week, but for Denver's sake, I hope he is. 2 firsts+extras for him? lolololol.


lol.

Here is the facts. Dmc has missed alot of time to injury. He has had no surgeries. He has very low wear and tear on his body. (24 years old) Again sooner or later he going to play a full year and were talking league MVP.

Both Taiwan Jones(way faster than DMC) and M Goodson are the perfect fit for this stretch zone blocking system. You get these two running in space and its going to be a thing of beauty.(Raiders will be number 1 rushing team this year)


Sorry Buddy there is a very good chance doom is suspended this year, This isn't his first brush with the law. As a raider fan , I hope he isn't suspended when he plays the Raiders. This way there is no need to even throw it. Raider just overpower the undersized Dumberville at the point of attack. See First game.(Raider threw it only twenty times)


NOw Raiders oline only gave up 25 sacks in 2011. They upgraded that oline bigtime. Raiders are playing in WCO offense. That means alot of safe passes to the Rbs and FB. ( those can go a long long way) Than once you start cheating up. Raiders run by your secondary.

So C palmer due to fact the system so Qb friendly , has the oline, a so many weapons around him , and it not a stretch to assume he should have his best season ever as a pro.

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 09:45 AM
Dear diary,
Here are my hopes and dreams, composed poorly for your reading pleasure.
Forever yours, Raiders 9175
xoxo

Kaylore
07-19-2012, 09:46 AM
What does surgery have to do with it? Your RB is made of glass! He gets hurt every year. If anything the fact that surgery wasn't required reinforces how fragile he is.

I love after losing Wimbley and having a bunch of thirty something's on the defensive line your whole answer to the defense getting better is "scheme".

And Palmer sucks. When was his last good season? 2007?

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 09:48 AM
Dear diary,
Here are my hopes and dreams, composed poorly for your reading pleasure.
Forever yours, Raiders 9175
xoxo

Stop with your childish antics. Your not funny, and your just making every Bronco fan look bad. Your football IQ is as bad as my writing skills.

Bronco Rob
07-19-2012, 09:49 AM
Raiders were a top ten offense the last two years. Can you say that. Could very well be a top five offense this year. The Bronco can't as even if Manning is his old self, their talent around him isn't very good.

Your defense isn't that good. W@hen was the last time DMC didn't go off on that defense. Only reason Broncos weren't swept again last year is they lost their starting Qb and their starting RB. Raiders put out a healthy offense(M reece, J Ford, DMC) and that overrated Bronco defense not stopping it.


The raiders were 16th in scoring in 2011? How's that considered top 10 by any stretch of the imagination? You lost your leading rusher, starting tight end and center. Darren McFragile has missed as many games in four seasons as Manning has his entire career. Starting tight ends Ausberry & Myers have 34 career receptions with zero touchdowns. Moore pulled a hamstring AGAIN in shorts and t-shirts. Heyward-Bey has more drops than touchdowns.


As far as the defense goes i'll concede the lost of Bunkley and Dawkins mostly for his intangibles but other than that significant upgrades at almost every position not mention Jack Del Rio. The raiders 29th ranked defense has only gotten worse, you lost your best corner Routt, best pass rusher in Wimbley. Signed two corners that are on the wrong side of 30 that were cut be their previous team.




:thumbs:

oubronco
07-19-2012, 10:05 AM
I expect alot of this against Palmer

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c334/bmfbuffalo/raiderhater.jpg

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 10:06 AM
What does surgery have to do with it? Your RB is made of glass! He gets hurt every year. If anything the fact that surgery wasn't required reinforces how fragile he is.

I love after losing Wimbley and having a bunch of thirty something's on the defensive line your whole answer to the defense getting better is "scheme".

And Palmer sucks. When was his last good season? 2007?

OF Course it matters. The more surgeries you have the more it eventualy wears down a body. True or false. DMc is only 24 who had some bad breaks. (still has alot of football left) Was having a MVp type of season till he had a freak injury in 2011. (true or false)

Raiders did lose something in the pass rush with the loss of wimbley but there is no doubt they put out a better overrall defense with philip wheeler playing sslb. (that is a fact) He is an upgrade at Sslb from Wimbley.(who couldn't cover)
matt Shaughnessy is capable of getting 10 sacks(Raiders lost him week three versus Jets) to pick up the slack.

Yes scheme can make all the difference. Raiders played an outdated defensive scheme and every Qb that came to line knew what they would be in. ( they had to play it Al Davis way) That won't be the case this year.
Opposing Qbs won't have that luxury as they will play ever different type of coverage. They will blitz from everywhere while dropping guys into coverage.

Go watch Miles Burris, Kaelin Burnett, N stupar anf Mario Kurn (even though i say he ends up on Ps) and you know what Dennis allen trying to do with these lbs.

Raiders offenbse should be in the top five. They don't need for that defense to be top ten. All it has to be in the 15 range and this Raider team going to win alot of games.

Btw With the addition F Juron Criner Raidedrs red zone ofense should improve dramatically. Raiders went from 20-20 but did have problems punching it in.

Btw depends how much Raiders play 3-4 this year(eventually raiders are moving to that defense) R Seymour and Kelly would be DE's(even though allen says Kelly might play NT) Raiders have so many Young Des that they can sub for thiose two(Desmond Bryant, Jack Crawford, L Houston, Christo Bulikdi0

oubronco
07-19-2012, 10:13 AM
http://decatur.static2.adqic.com/uploads/inline/1322774385_91d7.jpg

JLesSPE
07-19-2012, 10:37 AM
Wow that was weak. Go ahead and come up with some substance. You going to talk football or you can't. which one is it.

I'm gonna let you in on something. Most people aren't talking football with you because you want to talk about the Fade. They haven't been relevant since 2002 when they accidentally showed up at the super bowl and were allowed to be sacrificed to the Bucs. Everything you're spewing is speculative. So until you have something more than, "Our 8th streeng TE iz a gooder QB than Payton Manning, you guyz suck and the raiders will win the super bowl!", STFU.

JLesSPE
07-19-2012, 10:39 AM
By the way, good write up Kaylore. Thanks for posting.

Bacillus Anthracis
07-19-2012, 10:41 AM
...we let you pick through our garbage to find your 7th head coach in 10 seasons.....

Unfortunately for us, that may be true. Personally I would rather have seen Hue Jackson get another shot while revamping our D but whatever.

I don't know how Dennis Allen is going to do. I don't know what Reggie McKenzie's plan is. Scrapping an offensive system that worked well doesn't make any sense to me. A lot of Raider fans are really hanging on McKenzie's johnson, saying he can do no wrong, but if this team doesn't get to the playoffs this year he'll be directly responsible for it.

The fact is, if last year's Raider D had just been below average (say 20th ranked or so) we could have rested our starters with two weeks left in the season. And bringing the same offense back with a competent defense would have virtually guaranteed us a playoff berth.

How you guys will do depends exclusively on Peyton Manning. The fate of most teams rides on the success of their quarterback but with you guys it's especially crucial. If he can pick up where he left off, then the rest of the AFC West will be battling it out for a wildcard. But if not, or if he gets injured, Denver's going to have a high first round draft pick in 2013.

underrated29
07-19-2012, 10:50 AM
Wow, this raiders guy is a freaking dumbf**k.

Next- how I rank the division

Denver
Cheifs/Raiders
Raiders/Cheifs (these two teams are so close imo)
Bolts




Now, raiders guy- ask yourself these few questions:

1.- Would any team in the NFL take any raider WR over Demaryius Thomas?

2.- Would any team in the NFL take the next best wr over Erick Decker? (Be honest here, even though we know you wont)

3.- Do you really believe your offense will be better than the -Pats, Saints, Eagles, giants, steelers, lions, packers, texans, falcons, cowboys? That is 10 teams right there and do not even think about saying you have ANYONE on your roster better than any player those teams have except for DMC (who only plays 6 games a year)- SO HOW WILL YOU HAVE A TOP 5 OFFENSE!?

4.- Do you realize that all your WRs numbers are equivalent to two of our WRs numbers and we had the worst passing QB in the league throwing to them?

5.- How long have you had an extra 21st chromosome?

6.- Which team has the best set of rush LBs?

7.- which team has the best set of S?

8.- Which team has the best pass rushers?

9.- Which team has the best set of Cbs?

10.- Which team ranked last in the division for defense?

11.- Did you notice that I included each team in the AFCW on questions 6-10? (Did you know that it goes: bolts, cheifs, broncos, broncos, raiders)

Funny how the raiders make that list only as a team with the worst defense? And all you added was wheeler?




HEY- didnt your MLB try and execute someone? Your only good player? Is he going to be playing this year? He is gone, all your Cbs are gone, you best LB is gone. What exactly do the raiders have that is scary or good or even improved?

underrated29
07-19-2012, 10:54 AM
Unfortunately for us, that may be true. Personally I would rather have seen Hue Jackson get another shot while revamping our D but whatever.

I don't know how Dennis Allen is going to do. I don't know what Reggie McKenzie's plan is. Scrapping an offensive system that worked well doesn't make any sense to me. A lot of Raider fans are really hanging on McKenzie's johnson, saying he can do no wrong, but if this team doesn't get to the playoffs this year he'll be directly responsible for it.

The fact is, if last year's Raider D had just been below average (say 20th ranked or so) we could have rested our starters with two weeks left in the season. And bringing the same offense back with a competent defense would have virtually guaranteed us a playoff berth.

How you guys will do depends exclusively on Peyton Manning. The fate of most teams rides on the success of their quarterback but with you guys it's especially crucial. If he can pick up where he left off, then the rest of the AFC West will be battling it out for a wildcard. But if not, or if he gets injured, Denver's going to have a high first round draft pick in 2013.




You sir, are an anomaly. An intelligent raiders fan. I applaud you and this reasonable, well thought out post. Your other ones werent bad either.

vancejohnson82
07-19-2012, 10:54 AM
the Raiders offense in the top 5???

lulz???

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 11:01 AM
Stop with your childish antics. Your not funny, and your just making every Bronco fan look bad. Your football IQ is as bad as my writing skills.

Every one of your posts is built around hopes and dreams. You are promising these things that are happening in your imagination. You appear frightfully stupid in the process. Please go.

Bacchus
07-19-2012, 11:25 AM
Don't quote lonestar ever again. Most of us have him on ignore. STOP.

LMAO... great post. I have not figured out the ignore thing yet but I am working on it

KCStud
07-19-2012, 11:26 AM
Aside from Peyton and Decker, the Broncos offense is average. The OL problems were hidden by switching to the option and the DL has trouble stopping the run.

I don't think DEN is the clear cut favorites simply because they have Manning.

The way to beat Manning is to play good defense and run the ball.

Last year KC was 11th in total offense, 12th in points given up and 6th in pass defense without Eric Berry. There is no reason to think KC won't have a top 10 defense, especially with Romeo (who has always been able to frustrate Manning).

I think KC will return to a top 10 rushing attack as well. Last year we were middle of the pack with MCCluster and Battle. Our new OC has been very good setting up the running game. In Cleveland he unleashed Peyton Hillis in 2010. Then last year he had a great running game with Reggie Bush and a the rookie from K-State. With 2 of the best run blockers in at OT, KC should have success running the ball.

I think KC and DEN will battle it out and the last game of the season could determine who wins the division.

Of course Cassel is the question. But if he plays like he did in 2010 (27 TD's/7INT's) KC is winning the division. We'll see how likely that is though.

Bacchus
07-19-2012, 11:29 AM
I expect alot of this against Palmer

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c334/bmfbuffalo/raiderhater.jpg

Darrent Williams: wouldn't it be great if he was still playing for the Broncos? He showed lots of promise in his two years.

Cito Pelon
07-19-2012, 11:34 AM
Nice writeup. It's early to say, but it looks like Denver should repeat as Div champs. KC may have helped themselves quite a bit with personnel acquisitions plus getting injured players back (although two of the key ones Charles and Berry are coming off of ACL's). Crennel may turn out to be a good HC, his time in CLE I don't hold against him, he didn't have much to work with. Hell, has CLE done any better since? He has Cassel and Quinn to work with at QB, so that's not an ideal situation, but he got Hillis who can be very productive and maybe has a chip on his shoulder. Bowe? Who knows. At TE they could be set pretty good, and Baldwin has potential. But they still have average QB's, non-leadership types. It's possible they can challenge for the Div title.

OAK? Palmer can be very good at times, but he's a non-leadership type also like Cassel. If they can gel considering all the changes, they might challenge for the Div title.

SD, well they've been fading slowly, and I don't think they got all that much better in the offseason. This rookie Melvin Ingram might make a difference, they've needed that outside passrush guy for a while. They let Tolbert go, and he had 22 TD's, 2000 Yscm the past two years. McClain I don't see as an upgrade. Meacham and Royal, meh. Rivers is a good QB and a leader, so they do have that. But then they also have the same coaching staff that somehow lets games slip through their fingers. Nevertheless, they'll be up there around 9 wins.

I can see the Div title coming down to the last 3-4 weeks again, because none of these AFC West teams are all that great, 10-6 will probably win the Div title. The final 4 games is this (thanks Kaylore for adding this into your analysis):

Denver:
Dec. 6 at Oakland Raiders (Thurs.) 8:20 p.m.
Dec. 16 at Baltimore Ravens 1 p.m.
Dec. 23 Cleveland Browns 4:05 p.m.
Dec. 30 Kansas City Chiefs 4:15 p.m.

SD:
Dec. 9 at Pittsburgh Steelers 1 p.m.
Dec. 16 Carolina Panthers 4:05 p.m.
Dec. 23 at New York Jets * 8:20 p.m.
Dec. 30 Oakland Raiders 4:15 p.m.

KC:
Dec. 9 at Cleveland Browns 1 p.m.
Dec. 16 at Oakland Raiders 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 23 Indianapolis Colts 1 p.m.
Dec. 30 at Denver Broncos 4:15 p.m.

OAK:
Dec. 6 Denver Broncos (Thurs.) 8:20 p.m.
Dec. 16 Kansas City Chiefs 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 23 at Carolina Panthers 1 p.m.
Dec. 30 at San Diego Chargers 4:15 p.m.

I imagine right now that all four teams will be close in season record by game 12. SD plays against the AFCW only once in the last 4 weeks, the other three play each other 2-3 times in the last 4 weeks and I figure that will decide the Div title. I doubt an AFCW team gets a wildcard, it will be all about the Div title.

Kaylore
07-19-2012, 11:36 AM
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that Run DMC being injured the previous seasons doesn't mean he isn't durable because he hasn't had to have surgery.

"Hello. I'm Darren McFadden. I strain or break something every season. But don't worry, I've never seen a surgeon so you can count on me."

oubronco
07-19-2012, 11:43 AM
He could break off 200 yds in any system LOL

underrated29
07-19-2012, 12:09 PM
Aside from Peyton and Decker, the Broncos offense is average. The OL problems were hidden by switching to the option and the DL has trouble stopping the run.

I don't think DEN is the clear cut favorites simply because they have Manning.

The way to beat Manning is to play good defense and run the ball.

Last year KC was 11th in total offense, 12th in points given up and 6th in pass defense without Eric Berry. There is no reason to think KC won't have a top 10 defense, especially with Romeo (who has always been able to frustrate Manning).

I think KC will return to a top 10 rushing attack as well. Last year we were middle of the pack with MCCluster and Battle. Our new OC has been very good setting up the running game. In Cleveland he unleashed Peyton Hillis in 2010. Then last year he had a great running game with Reggie Bush and a the rookie from K-State. With 2 of the best run blockers in at OT, KC should have success running the ball.

I think KC and DEN will battle it out and the last game of the season could determine who wins the division.

Of course Cassel is the question. But if he plays like he did in 2010 (27 TD's/7INT's) KC is winning the division. We'll see how likely that is though.


The OL problems were not hidden when we switched to tebow, they were exemplified. We gave up far fewer sacks with orton than tebow, and EVERY bronco fan knows that orton took phantom sacks all the time. Making our OL numbers worse than they were. Our OL is solid aside from beadles and JD- one of both will be replaced this season.


You are right about the way to beat manning, and those two things happen to be KCs specialty right now. It will be a great game against our two teams.


I agree again, that KC has by far the best defense in the division. But, while you do get a great player in berry back you Lost an amazing player in Carr, and replaced him with routte who is terrible. That is a big downgrade. Still your D will be up there with the elite. Its that good.

You also drafted Devon Wylie who could be a great player if he had a QB...And that is where the problem lies as we all know. Cassel. The bigger problem for cassell now is he sucks when under pressure, before he used to be ok with it. Now once the heat is on he folds. Not good at all considering our pass rush and possible bolts pass rush with ingram.

The division will be close but imo we will have had a 2-3 game lead by the end of the race to make it inconsequential.

broncocalijohn
07-19-2012, 01:25 PM
Here is the facts. Dmc has missed alot of time to injury. He has had no surgeries. He has very low wear and tear on his body. (24 years old) Again sooner or later he going to play a full year and were talking league MVP.

Both Taiwan Jones(way faster than DMC) and M Goodson are the perfect fit for this stretch zone blocking system. You get these two running in space and its going to be a thing of beauty.(Raiders will be number 1 rushing team this year)


Sorry Buddy there is a very good chance doom is suspended this year, This isn't his first brush with the law. As a raider fan , I hope he isn't suspended when he plays the Raiders. This way there is no need to even throw it. Raider just overpower the undersized Dumberville at the point of attack. See First game.(Raider threw it only twenty times)


NOw Raiders oline only gave up 25 sacks in 2011. They upgraded that oline bigtime. Raiders are playing in WCO offense. That means alot of safe passes to the Rbs and FB. ( those can go a long long way) Than once you start cheating up. Raiders run by your secondary.

So C palmer due to fact the system so Qb friendly , has the oline, a so many weapons around him , and it not a stretch to assume he should have his best season ever as a pro.

Isnt it amazing us Broncos fans can see potential in Moreno but are sick of him getting injured for weeks or at least a few quarters of a game and this clown, like so many other Raider fans, see everything half full for every player or position. THis is the the reason why we see so much myopic opinions from Raider fans and why they were crowned the dumbest fans in the league. According to this guy, nothing is wrong with the Raiders! They are the beast of the west.
Reality check is TE with no experience, no running back once McFadden gets hurt and they still are suspect at defense. Add a tough schedule (like all AFC West) and you will be lucky to scrape 8 wins.....including preseason.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 02:11 PM
The raiders were 16th in scoring in 2011? How's that considered top 10 by any stretch of the imagination? You lost your leading rusher, starting tight end and center. Darren McFragile has missed as many games in four seasons as Manning has his entire career. Starting tight ends Ausberry & Myers have 34 career receptions with zero touchdowns. Moore pulled a hamstring AGAIN in shorts and t-shirts. Heyward-Bey has more drops than touchdowns.


As far as the defense goes i'll concede the lost of Bunkley and Dawkins mostly for his intangibles but other than that significant upgrades at almost every position not mention Jack Del Rio. The raiders 29th ranked defense has only gotten worse, you lost your best corner Routt, best pass rusher in Wimbley. Signed two corners that are on the wrong side of 30 that were cut be their previous team.




:thumbs:
Raiders were top 10 offense in yards. They moved the football from 20-20 pretty frequent. They did get bogged down in the red zone. Clearly Dmc injured, hurt that stat as they were number 1 team in redzone, till he went down. M bush was the worst runner inside the redzone(fact)

Raiders addressed their redzone problems with the addition of Juron Criner 6'3 223 who will be a big part of the offense when they get down there. DMC and Goodson pass catching ability, not to mention running ability, and the Raiders are getting td's this year.


Btw you do know points scored isn't always a reflection of a good offense. See the Jets, they had number 1 offense in redzone.; That offense was horrible moving from 20- 20, but their special teams and defense put them in position to score(not the offense) Plaxico Burress who was a non factor from 20-20 was very effective in red zone.


Heck you should know what I mean. See the broncos they were a lousy offense. When they got down in the redzone they were very good(thanks to ability of Tebow) , Just proves scoring points ndoesnh't make an offense top notch.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 02:19 PM
Isnt it amazing us Broncos fans can see potential in Moreno but are sick of him getting injured for weeks or at least a few quarters of a game and this clown, like so many other Raider fans, see everything half full for every player or position. THis is the the reason why we see so much myopic opinions from Raider fans and why they were crowned the dumbest fans in the league. According to this guy, nothing is wrong with the Raiders! They are the beast of the west.
Reality check is TE with no experience, no running back once McFadden gets hurt and they still are suspect at defense. Add a tough schedule (like all AFC West) and you will be lucky to scrape 8 wins.....including preseason.

Yea okay outside of Bronco homers tell me one fan base that would put Moses Moreno or any other Bronco Rb in DMC class. That statement is beyond stupidity and no need to discuss anything else.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 02:23 PM
The OL problems were not hidden when we switched to tebow, they were exemplified. We gave up far fewer sacks with orton than tebow, and EVERY bronco fan knows that orton took phantom sacks all the time. Making our OL numbers worse than they were. Our OL is solid aside from beadles and JD- one of both will be replaced this season.


You are right about the way to beat manning, and those two things happen to be KCs specialty right now. It will be a great game against our two teams.


I agree again, that KC has by far the best defense in the division. But, while you do get a great player in berry back you Lost an amazing player in Carr, and replaced him with routte who is terrible. That is a big downgrade. Still your D will be up there with the elite. Its that good.

You also drafted Devon Wylie who could be a great player if he had a QB...And that is where the problem lies as we all know. Cassel. The bigger problem for cassell now is he sucks when under pressure, before he used to be ok with it. Now once the heat is on he folds. Not good at all considering our pass rush and possible bolts pass rush with ingram.

The division will be close but imo we will have had a 2-3 game lead by the end of the race to make it inconsequential.

The Broncos oline is utter garbage. Even Clady who looked like he was going to be a star. Hasn't looked that good recently. You have the worst oline in the Afc West.
I know Peyton manning has a way to make average lines look decent, but he's going to have his work cut out with that oline. Ive seen more talent on my towns high school football team oline, than the Broncos.


Btw spin ity any way you like 42 sacks when you threw it 429 times speaks for itself. (yea go ahead and try and throw it more).

Lets do the math P manning get hits that many times 42, and you might as well start warming up hanie now.

ppablo
07-19-2012, 02:30 PM
raiders fans > dumb

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 02:49 PM
Wow, this raiders guy is a freaking dumb****.

Next- how I rank the division

Denver
Cheifs/Raiders
Raiders/Cheifs (these two teams are so close imo)
Bolts




Now, raiders guy- ask yourself these few questions:

1.- Would any team in the NFL take any raider WR over Demaryius Thomas?

2.- Would any team in the NFL take the next best wr over Erick Decker? (Be honest here, even though we know you wont)

3.- Do you really believe your offense will be better than the -Pats, Saints, Eagles, giants, steelers, lions, packers, texans, falcons, cowboys? That is 10 teams right there and do not even think about saying you have ANYONE on your roster better than any player those teams have except for DMC (who only plays 6 games a year)- SO HOW WILL YOU HAVE A TOP 5 OFFENSE!?

4.- Do you realize that all your WRs numbers are equivalent to two of our WRs numbers and we had the worst passing QB in the league throwing to them?

5.- How long have you had an extra 21st chromosome?

6.- Which team has the best set of rush LBs?

7.- which team has the best set of S?

8.- Which team has the best pass rushers?

9.- Which team has the best set of Cbs?

10.- Which team ranked last in the division for defense?

11.- Did you notice that I included each team in the AFCW on questions 6-10? (Did you know that it goes: bolts, cheifs, broncos, broncos, raiders)

Funny how the raiders make that list only as a team with the worst defense? And all you added was wheeler?




HEY- didnt your MLB try and execute someone? Your only good player? Is he going to be playing this year? He is gone, all your Cbs are gone, you best LB is gone. What exactly do the raiders have that is scary or good or even improved?

1. Stats speak for themselve . http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player1=HEY279111&player2=MOO260498&player3=THO095855&player4=null&position=widereceiver&playerOne=Darrius+Heyward-Bey&playerTwo=Denarius+Moore&playerThree=Demaryius+Thomas&playerFour= That two of three Raiders top wr had better stats than Thomas. Jacoby Ford is way more talented than him too but just missed alot of time in 2011 due to injury.

2 See Decker did he put up numbers better than ewven the rookie D moore. Nope

3. Raiders offense I expect to be in the top five. They have one of the most explosive offenses in the game. Eventually this offense will be number 1. See how many 25 and younger on the whole offense.

4. You do realize Raiders lost their starting QB early in season and they traded for a Qb that literally came off the couch after week 7. That without knowing the offense, The players on it and numerous injuries to that wr corp. Not to meention their Rb that was having a MVP type season. So get a clue.
I just did Broncos and raiders
6 where talking offense . So your point is what again.

7 . Again defense but Raiders safeties are better than BHroncos and it not even close. Tyvon Branch- Profootball focus labeled the best cover safety in the game and M Huff was forced to play more cb than safety in 2011 as Raiders had alot of injuries at Cb.

8 again defense- Yes Bronco have better pass rushers. Now do you have a better pass rush.(more players getting to the Qb) I say Raiders have more scaks than Bronco in 2012.

9. Again tough to say. Raiders and Broncos are going to ask two different things from their Cb's. Bronco have the big name player Champ bailey but evenb 40 years old start to slip at some point.

10 Raiders defense was atrocious last year why they made the coaching change. That was last year

11. Hey genius why didn't you put that after question five that explanation. Not going back

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 02:58 PM
This is hilarious.

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 02:59 PM
This is hilarious.

Jetmeck
07-19-2012, 03:09 PM
There are more adjustments to the schedule than Gaylore realizes, like playing good teams at home while other division rivals play those good teams on the road.

That all you got or would you like to tell us all how you have improved so much ? Hilarious!

Bob's your Information Minister
07-19-2012, 03:16 PM
I'm not a big Winston Fan. I think he could play some guard, and he may start at tackle

Yeah, he was only one of the best RTs in football last year.

He's NEVER played guard, you moron.

underrated29
07-19-2012, 03:17 PM
The Broncos oline is utter garbage. Even Clady who looked like he was going to be a star. Hasn't looked that good recently. You have the worst oline in the Afc West.
I know Peyton manning has a way to make average lines look decent, but he's going to have his work cut out with that oline. Ive seen more talent on my towns high school football team oline, than the Broncos.


Btw spin ity any way you like 42 sacks when you threw it 429 times speaks for itself. (yea go ahead and try and throw it more).

Lets do the math P manning get hits that many times 42, and you might as well start warming up hanie now.

cutler>orton>tebow- we can all agree as a passing QB...

why dont you go have a look at the OL sack numbers with each QB. I will wait.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-19-2012, 03:19 PM
Also, KC runs the same ****ing zone blocking scheme the Texans did.

Winston was the 5th rated pass blocking RT last year.

God, you ignorant ****s.

underrated29
07-19-2012, 03:19 PM
1. Stats speak for themselve . http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player1=HEY279111&player2=MOO260498&player3=THO095855&player4=null&position=widereceiver&playerOne=Darrius+Heyward-Bey&playerTwo=Denarius+Moore&playerThree=Demaryius+Thomas&playerFour= That two of three Raiders top wr had better stats than Thomas. Jacoby Ford is way more talented than him too but just missed alot of time in 2011 due to injury.

2 See Decker did he put up numbers better than ewven the rookie D moore. Nope

3. Raiders offense I expect to be in the top five. They have one of the most explosive offenses in the game. Eventually this offense will be number 1. See how many 25 and younger on the whole offense.

4. You do realize Raiders lost their starting QB early in season and they traded for a Qb that literally came off the couch after week 7. That without knowing the offense, The players on it and numerous injuries to that wr corp. Not to meention their Rb that was having a MVP type season. So get a clue.
I just did Broncos and raiders
6 where talking offense . So your point is what again.

7 . Again defense but Raiders safeties are better than BHroncos and it not even close. Tyvon Branch- Profootball focus labeled the best cover safety in the game and M Huff was forced to play more cb than safety in 2011 as Raiders had alot of injuries at Cb.

8 again defense- Yes Bronco have better pass rushers. Now do you have a better pass rush.(more players getting to the Qb) I say Raiders have more scaks than Bronco in 2012.

9. Again tough to say. Raiders and Broncos are going to ask two different things from their Cb's. Bronco have the big name player Champ bailey but evenb 40 years old start to slip at some point.

10 Raiders defense was atrocious last year why they made the coaching change. That was last year

11. Hey genius why didn't you put that after question five that explanation. Not going back





oh my..you didnt just....yeah you did..

I thought req was just being funny about you and drugs. I didnt know he was serious.

Flex Gunmetal
07-19-2012, 03:19 PM
Also, KC runs the same ****ing zone blocking scheme the Texans did.

Winston was the 5th rated pass blocking RT last year.

God, you ignorant ****s.

calm down fat boy.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-19-2012, 03:22 PM
FYI, if you want reasons why we picked 2 OL:

1. Albert is in a contract year and we may not resign him.

2. Ryan Lilja is old as **** and we needed a young LG prospect.

3. We had zero depth at OT.

Next time, try doing a little research.

http://www.thirdwayblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/caveman_1.jpg

boltaneer
07-19-2012, 03:33 PM
I gotta agree with Bobo for once. And I feel so dirty for saying that.

It seems like there wasn't a whole lot of thought put into that article.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-19-2012, 03:34 PM
He couldn't even spell Steve Breaston's name right.

KCStud
07-19-2012, 03:39 PM
The OL problems were not hidden when we switched to tebow, they were exemplified. We gave up far fewer sacks with orton than tebow, and EVERY bronco fan knows that orton took phantom sacks all the time. Making our OL numbers worse than they were. Our OL is solid aside from beadles and JD- one of both will be replaced this season.


You are right about the way to beat manning, and those two things happen to be KCs specialty right now. It will be a great game against our two teams.


I agree again, that KC has by far the best defense in the division. But, while you do get a great player in berry back you Lost an amazing player in Carr, and replaced him with routte who is terrible. That is a big downgrade. Still your D will be up there with the elite. Its that good.

You also drafted Devon Wylie who could be a great player if he had a QB...And that is where the problem lies as we all know. Cassel. The bigger problem for cassell now is he sucks when under pressure, before he used to be ok with it. Now once the heat is on he folds. Not good at all considering our pass rush and possible bolts pass rush with ingram.

The division will be close but imo we will have had a 2-3 game lead by the end of the race to make it inconsequential.

I think they were hidden far more than Bronco fans realize, simply because they ran the ball far more. I think Orlando Franklin is not a good pass blocking RT. Clady hasn't been the same since his injury and Walton is average at best. I like Kuper though. He's a great player.

And I really don't understand why people think Routt is the worst CB ever. He struggled with penalties and TD's covering #1 receivers. Carr covered #2 WR's. Of course he looked awesome. Big difference covering elite WR's to covering #2 guys. Now that Routt is back to covering #2 CB's (which he had great success in in 2010), I don't think it's going to be a monumental difference, especially with Berry playing right behind him.

I disagree with that Denver will win the division by 3 games. I think it will be closer. 1 or 2 games kinda close.
I think there's a good chance Denver could be 4-4 at the midpoint just because of the adjustments and tough schedule.
The first 8 teams are a combined 85-45 from last year and only one of those teams (Raiders) looks like they will take a big step back from last season.

The fact that a lot of Bronco fans are saying one player is the breaking point is silly. This is a team sport. Don't believe me? Look at how the Colts have fared in the playoffs in their history with Manning. You would think with him alone they'd have 3 or 4 SB's, but their team as a whole wasn't strong enough until 2006.

E_Rox
07-19-2012, 03:58 PM
Now, raiders guy- ask yourself these few questions:


5.- How long have you had an extra 21st chromosome?



The shot of the whole thread and goes completely unnoticed?

Sly, very sly.

Kaylore
07-19-2012, 03:59 PM
FYI, if you want reasons why we picked 2 OL:

1. Albert is in a contract year and we may not resign him.

2. Ryan Lilja is old as **** and we needed a young LG prospect.

3. We had zero depth at OT.

Next time, try doing a little research.

http://www.thirdwayblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/caveman_1.jpg

Bob, you don't draft two tackles in the second and third rounds as projects. Offensive line projects are no higher than fourth round selections. Period. Maybe it is all part of your grand vizier's master plan to have a lot of depth, but I don't believe Pioli is a guy who drafts for development early.

Kaylore
07-19-2012, 04:03 PM
He couldn't even spell Steve Breaston's name right.

And somehow we found a way to understand...incredible...

Bacchus
07-19-2012, 04:04 PM
The fact that a lot of Bronco fans are saying one player is the breaking point is silly. This is a team sport. Don't believe me? Look at how the Colts have fared in the playoffs in their history with Manning. You would think with him alone they'd have 3 or 4 SB's, but their team as a whole wasn't strong enough until 2006.

Really, ok The Colts have been one of the best most dominant teams in the NFL since Manning. The have a 2 SB appearances and one Championship. How has KC done during this time? How has Denver done during this period? There is no logic in this post. Manning hasd 2 SB appearnces, one championship a whole bunch of wins and division championships but being a KC fan is better why??

It is a team sport you realize that when Manning gets hurt and his Colts suddenly go from 10-6 to the worst team in the NFL. He is already surrounded by better talent in Denver than he was with the Colts in 2010. If Denver can keep improving this team there should be no reason why they cannot get another SB ring.

Now can you say the same thing with Matt Castle? I hate to break this to you but Castle is not leading any team to the SB. Put him on the Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Packers, Giants, Saints and those teams are not going to the SB. You cannot say the same thing if you put Peyton on those teams.

vancejohnson82
07-19-2012, 04:06 PM
ALso, to the genius above that said "it didn't take into account the schedule like playing good teams at home instead of on the road"

I would rather play the bad teams at home and the good teams on the road in the regular season...gotta make sure you grab those home wins

NFLBRONCO
07-19-2012, 04:11 PM
I think the division is up for grabs honestly. I think Denver's front 7 is suspect and needs more help. I think Denver is the fav but, our depth is weak we'll need to stay pretty healthy.

Bacchus
07-19-2012, 04:14 PM
I think the division is up for grabs honestly. I think Denver's front 7 is suspect and needs more help. I think Denver is the fav but, our depth is weak we'll need to stay pretty healthy.

I actually thing Denver's DL will be ok this year. I think they have solid depth and playmakers on the ends in passing situations. Denver's LBers to me is the biggest worry on the team. More than the secondary, DL or OL.

Mogulseeker
07-19-2012, 04:18 PM
Stick to your own team, Gaylore.

I'm sure that Chris is supremely hurt considering this comment is coming from a Broncos fan with 3,000 posts on a Broncos forum.

Oh wait.

Mogulseeker
07-19-2012, 04:19 PM
Also, BroncoRob should take not of what Kaylor did here. It's called original contribution rather than cutting and pasting. Nice work dude.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-19-2012, 04:20 PM
Bob, you don't draft two tackles in the second and third rounds as projects. Offensive line projects are no higher than fourth round selections. Period. Maybe it is all part of your grand vizier's master plan to have a lot of depth, but I don't believe Pioli is a guy who drafts for development early.

Pioli's kind of an idiot, so factor that in.

Neither of those guys are going to start this year, barring an injury.

We didn't pay a top RT big money to be replaced by a rookie, and Albert was a top 10 LT last season.

And without those guys we would have zero depth.

Use some logic sometime.

Houshyamama
07-19-2012, 04:22 PM
The raiders are walking away with the division and would have done so last year if they were healthy last season. With a healthy DMC and C Palmer their isn't a team in the AFc West stopping them. ( what has DMc averaged against the Broncos )

The Raiders without a doubt have the best offense in the division(should be a top five offense) . They have so many explosive weapons on offense. Three Rbs that can score from anywhere whether it a pass or run( DMC, M Goodson and taiwan jones) , the best Wr corp(not single wr but as group) D Moore, Jacoby Ford , DHB and Now Juron Criner blows away what anyone else has in the division. a Fb Marcel reece no one in divison can match. Eeven at Te ( this TE friendly offense) Ausberry 6'4 265 sub 4.5 and D gordon 6'4 265 4.63 are freak athletes. The Raiders at worst have the second best oline and case could be made that it might be the best.

Now defense. Raiders Dline is the best in the division . They have a big advanatge against any team in the division Offense line. (Raiders will know where P Manning is and let bsee if that oline can protect him) How many sacksa did Broncos give up being a predominantly a running team. (now they are going to put more on that Oline)

Raiders always had talent on defense. They had bad schemes. That's not the case anymore. Raiders have a defensive coach now as head coach. With the firepower they have on offense, they just need an average defense next yaer. Easy can get to that level next season. Raiders get higher this team capable as going as far as anyone in Afc.

Raiders have the best kicking game in the division.

The media can hype the Bronco's(this year eagles) or the Chargers(yesterday news) but when its all said and done the AFc west is a two team face between the Raiders and Chiefs.

NO Dj williams first six games and NO Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) and this Bronco team is so overrated.

Wow. The level of delusion in the post is off the charts.

Prodigal19
07-19-2012, 04:25 PM
1. Stats speak for themselve . http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead?player1=HEY279111&player2=MOO260498&player3=THO095855&player4=null&position=widereceiver&playerOne=Darrius+Heyward-Bey&playerTwo=Denarius+Moore&playerThree=Demaryius+Thomas&playerFour= That two of three Raiders top wr had better stats than Thomas. Jacoby Ford is way more talented than him too but just missed alot of time in 2011 due to injury.

2 See Decker did he put up numbers better than ewven the rookie D moore. Nope

3. Raiders offense I expect to be in the top five. They have one of the most explosive offenses in the game. Eventually this offense will be number 1. See how many 25 and younger on the whole offense.

4. You do realize Raiders lost their starting QB early in season and they traded for a Qb that literally came off the couch after week 7. That without knowing the offense, The players on it and numerous injuries to that wr corp. Not to meention their Rb that was having a MVP type season. So get a clue.
I just did Broncos and raiders
6 where talking offense . So your point is what again.

7 . Again defense but Raiders safeties are better than BHroncos and it not even close. Tyvon Branch- Profootball focus labeled the best cover safety in the game and M Huff was forced to play more cb than safety in 2011 as Raiders had alot of injuries at Cb.

8 again defense- Yes Bronco have better pass rushers. Now do you have a better pass rush.(more players getting to the Qb) I say Raiders have more scaks than Bronco in 2012.

9. Again tough to say. Raiders and Broncos are going to ask two different things from their Cb's. Bronco have the big name player Champ bailey but evenb 40 years old start to slip at some point.

10 Raiders defense was atrocious last year why they made the coaching change. That was last year

11. Hey genius why didn't you put that after question five that explanation. Not going back

Please teach me to type like you do. Do I just buy a pair of dark tinted homer glasses and then bang my fists against the keyboard?

Mogulseeker
07-19-2012, 04:33 PM
The raiders are walking away with the division and would have done so last year if they were healthy last season. With a healthy DMC and C Palmer their isn't a team in the AFc West stopping them. ( what has DMc averaged against the Broncos )

The Raiders without a doubt have the best offense in the division(should be a top five offense) . They have so many explosive weapons on offense. Three Rbs that can score from anywhere whether it a pass or run( DMC, M Goodson and taiwan jones) , the best Wr corp(not single wr but as group) D Moore, Jacoby Ford , DHB and Now Juron Criner blows away what anyone else has in the division. a Fb Marcel reece no one in divison can match. Eeven at Te ( this TE friendly offense) Ausberry 6'4 265 sub 4.5 and D gordon 6'4 265 4.63 are freak athletes. The Raiders at worst have the second best oline and case could be made that it might be the best.

Now defense. Raiders Dline is the best in the division . They have a big advanatge against any team in the division Offense line. (Raiders will know where P Manning is and let bsee if that oline can protect him) How many sacksa did Broncos give up being a predominantly a running team. (now they are going to put more on that Oline)

Raiders always had talent on defense. They had bad schemes. That's not the case anymore. Raiders have a defensive coach now as head coach. With the firepower they have on offense, they just need an average defense next yaer. Easy can get to that level next season. Raiders get higher this team capable as going as far as anyone in Afc.

Raiders have the best kicking game in the division.

The media can hype the Bronco's(this year eagles) or the Chargers(yesterday news) but when its all said and done the AFc west is a two team face between the Raiders and Chiefs.

NO Dj williams first six games and NO Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) and this Bronco team is so overrated.

I love Raiders fans. It's like the word reason isn't in their vocabulary. That said, reading posts by Raiders fans makes me hate teachers unions even more... Anybody who reasons like in this post probably had teachers that didn't care about their education growing up. Raider9175 is a victim, really. A victim of a ****ty education system.

1. The Raiders are the most athletic team in the AFC west... They also have a low football IQ. Jamarcus Russell was a freak athlete. How did that turn out?

2. How do you figure best offense in the division without a consistent QB, no real #1 target and an injury prone RB who is expected to get MORE carries this year?

3. The Raiders dline is third at best behind Denver and KC. There really is no debate here... I'm not going to dignify a retarded statement with a response.

4. Best kicking game in the division? Did you watch any other teams other than the Raiders last year?

Also - new coach with no offensive experience, no high draft picks to work with. Loss of several key pieces... I think 5-11 is being generous with the schedule you have.

Mogulseeker
07-19-2012, 04:36 PM
I mean to root for a consistently bad team like the Raiders and show that level of delusion year in and year out... I'm not saying all Raiders fans have mental issues, but there is certainly something going on when delusions of grandeur are so pronounced for so long.

ghwk
07-19-2012, 04:38 PM
Wow you got me. Your football knowledge is so apparent. Can't you come up with a decent counter point. Surely there has to be one Bronco fan who can debate me.

This has to be the Raider version of ClamChowdah Hilarious!

Bacillus Anthracis
07-19-2012, 04:39 PM
IAnd I really don't understand why people think Routt is the worst CB ever. He struggled with penalties and TD's covering #1 receivers. Carr covered #2 WR's. Of course he looked awesome. Big difference covering elite WR's to covering #2 guys. Now that Routt is back to covering #2 CB's (which he had great success in in 2010), I don't think it's going to be a monumental difference, especially with Berry playing right behind him.

The thing is, Routt wasn't kind of bad, he was the worst CB in the NFL in terms of TDs and penalties. That doesn't happen to great corners and it doesn't happen to good or even mediocre corners, no matter who they're playing against.

To be fair to Routt though, it may have been the system and the coaching. The only CB that managed to do well in the system since Chuck Woodson left is Asomugha, and both are/were Pro Bowl caliber. So at the best Routt suffered from bad coaching and at best he's nowhere near Pro Bowl level, therefore paying him anything more than a little bit over the vet minimum is too much.

Also, most defensive players that started with the Raiders and then leave to go to another team are out of the league within a couple of seasons because they've been ruined/Al made a bad draft pick. Again, Woodson and Asomugah are the exceptions; and it's been shown that Routt is nowhere near the caliber of either of those guys. He'll be mediocre at best for you guys.

KCStud
07-19-2012, 04:39 PM
Really, ok The Colts have been one of the best most dominant teams in the NFL since Manning. The have a 2 SB appearances and one Championship. How has KC done during this time? How has Denver done during this period? There is no logic in this post. Manning hasd 2 SB appearnces, one championship a whole bunch of wins and division championships but being a KC fan is better why??

It is a team sport you realize that when Manning gets hurt and his Colts suddenly go from 10-6 to the worst team in the NFL. He is already surrounded by better talent in Denver than he was with the Colts in 2010. If Denver can keep improving this team there should be no reason why they cannot get another SB ring.

Now can you say the same thing with Matt Castle? I hate to break this to you but Castle is not leading any team to the SB. Put him on the Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Packers, Giants, Saints and those teams are not going to the SB. You cannot say the same thing if you put Peyton on those teams.

The Colts have been beaten by several teams because they were a better overall team. Look at the Jets and Chargers losses. Manning was the better QB, but the better team won. The better built team won almost every time Manning played the Pats. Manning barely has a winning record in the playoffs as we speak.

And how long do you have to get this said "talent" around Manning? He's running out of time and you guys got Ronnie Hillman, Jacob Tamme, Brandon Stokely (who didn't even play last year), and Tracy Porter. You did hardly anything to help him out.
San Francisco was easily the best choice for Manning. They're the most balanced football team in the league. There's tons of talent on both sides of the ball.
The Broncos are virtually the 2010 Colts. And that's not gonna beat the Patriots. It probably won't beat the Ravens or Texans either.

Bacillus Anthracis
07-19-2012, 04:51 PM
Sorry. Double-ish post.

Mogulseeker
07-19-2012, 04:51 PM
DMC has about the same chance to get MVP as Knowshon.

The idiocy in this thread is entertaining.

boltaneer
07-19-2012, 05:17 PM
It's the time of year where fans get to puff their chests out.

Every team in this division has issues of all kinds. I agree with a couple of the posters in this thread that the division is up for grabs. Though I think the Raiders are in rebuild mode and need a big draft next year and get their salary cap back into shape to get back into contention.

Manning makes the Broncos the media darlings and I'm fine with that. I actually like how the media is slobbering all over Denver this year.

KCStud
07-19-2012, 06:00 PM
Really, ok The Colts have been one of the best most dominant teams in the NFL since Manning. The have a 2 SB appearances and one Championship. How has KC done during this time? How has Denver done during this period? There is no logic in this post. Manning hasd 2 SB appearnces, one championship a whole bunch of wins and division championships but being a KC fan is better why??

It is a team sport you realize that when Manning gets hurt and his Colts suddenly go from 10-6 to the worst team in the NFL. He is already surrounded by better talent in Denver than he was with the Colts in 2010. If Denver can keep improving this team there should be no reason why they cannot get another SB ring.

Now can you say the same thing with Matt Castle? I hate to break this to you but Castle is not leading any team to the SB. Put him on the Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Packers, Giants, Saints and those teams are not going to the SB. You cannot say the same thing if you put Peyton on those teams.

The Colts have been beaten by several teams because they were a better overall team. Look at the Jets and Chargers losses. Manning was the better QB, but the better team won. The better built team won almost every time Manning played the Pats. Manning barely has a winning record in the playoffs as we speak.

And how long do you have to get this said "talent" around Manning? He's running out of time and you guys got Ronnie Hillman, Jacob Tamme, Brandon Stokely (who didn't even play last year), and Tracy Porter. You did hardly anything to help him out.
San Francisco was easily the best choice for Manning. They're the most balanced football team in the league. There's tons of talent on both sides of the ball.
The Broncos are virtually the 2010 Colts. And that's not gonna beat the Patriots. It probably won't beat the Ravens or Texans either.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 06:05 PM
The Colts have been beaten by several teams because they were a better overall team. Look at the Jets and Chargers losses. Manning was the better QB, but the better team won. The better built team won almost every time Manning played the Pats. Manning barely has a winning record in the playoffs as we speak.

And how long do you have to get this said "talent" around Manning? He's running out of time and you guys got Ronnie Hillman, Jacob Tamme, Brandon Stokely (who didn't even play last year), and Tracy Porter. You did hardly anything to help him out.
San Francisco was easily the best choice for Manning. They're the most balanced football team in the league. There's tons of talent on both sides of the ball.
The Broncos are virtually the 2010 Colts. And that's not gonna beat the Patriots. It probably won't beat the Ravens or Texans either.
Thank God the Chiefs didn't get Manning. That is where he could have had a big impact on the division. Not the Bronco's. He doesn't have enough around him to be successful.

Raider9175
07-19-2012, 06:11 PM
Also, KC runs the same ****ing zone blocking scheme the Texans did.

Winston was the 5th rated pass blocking RT last year.

God, you ignorant ****s.

Lets see all I know is Lamaar Houston Dominated him big time when raiders played the Texans. So lets see how much a big addition he is to the Chiefs oline- Jmo I don't think he fares as well in the Afc west.

Bacchus
07-19-2012, 06:18 PM
The Colts have been beaten by several teams because they were a better overall team. Look at the Jets and Chargers losses. Manning was the better QB, but the better team won. The better built team won almost every time Manning played the Pats. Manning barely has a winning record in the playoffs as we speak.

And how long do you have to get this said "talent" around Manning? He's running out of time and you guys got Ronnie Hillman, Jacob Tamme, Brandon Stokely (who didn't even play last year), and Tracy Porter. You did hardly anything to help him out.
San Francisco was easily the best choice for Manning. They're the most balanced football team in the league. There's tons of talent on both sides of the ball.
The Broncos are virtually the 2010 Colts. And that's not gonna beat the Patriots. It probably won't beat the Ravens or Texans either.

Ok, this I agree with you. Right now the Broncos I feel are better than the 2010 Colts but they are not as good as the Patriots and maybenot as good as the Texans or Ravens. I agree Denver is not there yet. So what is your point? When is KC going to be as good as those teams? Are you saying Denver should not have signed Manning because they weren't going to be the best team in the AFC this year?

All I know is that Denver has a young OL, young WR and behind McGahee they have young talent. This year Denver might be the 2010 Colts, Next year they might be the 2005 Colts and the 3rd year they might be the 2006 Colts.

Either way Denver is so much better off now than they were 6 months ago it is not even funny especia;lly if you are a Chief's fan.

As far as your SF referance I think that goes back to Manning and Harbaugh. There would have been a huge conflict there because Harbuagh is too hands on on the offense and I think that would have made Peyton uncomfortable. Of course I am only guessing on this.

You also forget KC wanted Manning badly but he would not even give them an interview. I'm sure you would be singing quite a different tune if he was on your team this year.

NorCalBronco7
07-19-2012, 06:30 PM
Broncos 10-6
Chargers 8-8
Chiefs 7-9
Raiders 6-10

The division starts with Peyton. Assuming hes healthy for 2012 season, hes hands down the best player at the most critical position in the divsion. Unless, the defense takes major steps backwards next season, the Broncos are clearly the team to beat. Thomas and Decker need to stay healthy, Thomas especially. McGahee is getting old, but he still has juice left in the tank. Tamme and Dressen compliment each other very well. The offensive line is young, but talented. Walton and Beadles have yet to prove themselves in pass protection, so there is a potential weakness there. On defense, the Broncos have the best edge rushers in the AFC West and Champ. DT, Saftey is still a lingering issue, and they will most likely be the Broncos biggest weakness next season. 10-6

The Chargers struggled protecting Rivers (injuries were the main reason) and didnt generate a good pass rush last season, but they still have a lot of talent on both sides. Matthews is emerging and the running game should be very good. They lost VJax, but landing Meachem and Royal could be enough to solidfy them as again a top 10 offense. Defensively, the Chargers need to get after the QB better, and they drafted Ingram to help out. They will most likely have a better defense than last year, should be a good team. 8-8

The Chiefs are a very talented team, except at Qb. That will be their biggest hurrdle to overcome next season, along with key players Berry, Charles, Moeaki staying healthy. Adding Winston was huge, and their running game should be top notch next season. Defensively, they can get after the Qb with Hali, and Houston emerged late last season. D Johnson is a stud, and Flowers in one of the better CBs in the NFL. The biggest question mark on that side of the ball is whether Poe can step in, or anyone else, and take over the NT role. Its an extremely difficult postion to grasp as a rookie, but god knows the guy has talent. The Chiefs will be very competitve next season, but ultimatley Cassel, and his lack of skills will hold the team back. On the other hand, they have enough talent and coaching to reach the playoffs as wildcard. 7-9

The Raiders have a talented offense and their very much still growing with WRs Heybay, Moore and Ford. DMCs health will always be the biggest issue for the entire team, and its come to a point where he cant be counted on for a full season. TEs are a big unceartainty as well. Barnes is a scub at RT, but they created competion through the draft, and the line has plenty of talent as it is. Palmer is a very good Qb, and if the young WRs can build off last season, they should do very well. Defensively, losing Wimbley is going to hurt because they is no longer consistent edge rusher on the team. But Seymore, Kelly and Houston are very, very good and they should generate a solid interior pressence. The LBs are the weakest unit on the team overall. Bartell and Spencer at CB are not intimadating, and both are possible stop-gaps. Branch and Huff make a good tandem at saftey. I do like Dennis Allen, but hes a young buck with a new team and doesnt have a bunch of talent to work with defensivley. The change in defensive philosophy/players will take time to come together. 6-10

KCStud
07-19-2012, 07:22 PM
Ok, this I agree with you. Right now the Broncos I feel are better than the 2010 Colts but they are not as good as the Patriots and maybenot as good as the Texans or Ravens. I agree Denver is not there yet. So what is your point? When is KC going to be as good as those teams? Are you saying Denver should not have signed Manning because they weren't going to be the best team in the AFC this year?

All I know is that Denver has a young OL, young WR and behind McGahee they have young talent. This year Denver might be the 2010 Colts, Next year they might be the 2005 Colts and the 3rd year they might be the 2006 Colts.

Either way Denver is so much better off now than they were 6 months ago it is not even funny especia;lly if you are a Chief's fan.

As far as your SF referance I think that goes back to Manning and Harbaugh. There would have been a huge conflict there because Harbuagh is too hands on on the offense and I think that would have made Peyton uncomfortable. Of course I am only guessing on this.

You also forget KC wanted Manning badly but he would not even give them an interview. I'm sure you would be singing quite a different tune if he was on your team this year.

The point is that Manning chose where he would have control. I think he would have been just fine in San Francisco.
If KC had signed Manning, he would have had a much better shot simply because of the team surrounding him. KC would have offered him a better deal such as a top 10 defense and top 10 running game with a good receiving core and OT's.

I think you're forgetting that Denver was a 4-12 team going into last year.

KCStud
07-19-2012, 07:25 PM
It's the time of year where fans get to puff their chests out.

Every team in this division has issues of all kinds. I agree with a couple of the posters in this thread that the division is up for grabs. Though I think the Raiders are in rebuild mode and need a big draft next year and get their salary cap back into shape to get back into contention.

Manning makes the Broncos the media darlings and I'm fine with that. I actually like how the media is slobbering all over Denver this year.

I think the Chargers window is closed. The OL you guys have is very weak. Losing Dielman is going to hurt really bad. Really reminds me of when KC lost Roaf and Shields.
Losing Jackson hurts too, as well as Gates never staying healthy.
I like the defense though. All in all you guys will be tough if Rivers plays like the Rivers of the 2 seasons ago.

Bacchus
07-19-2012, 07:25 PM
The point is that Manning chose where he would have control. I think he would have been just fine in San Francisco.
If KC had signed Manning, he would have had a much better shot simply because of the team surrounding him. KC would have offered him a better deal such as a top 10 defense and top 10 running game with a good receiving core and OT's.

I think you're forgetting that Denver was a 4-12 team going into last year.

Ok, Manning might have had a better shot at winning a SB if he went to SF. or KC. That is your point? Who cares? Maybe he did not want to play for those organizations.:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Houshyamama
07-19-2012, 07:27 PM
The denial in this thread is ridiculous. The road to the AFC West crown goes through Denver. KCDud is going to end up VERY disappointed and I for one will bathe in his tears.

brncs_fan
07-19-2012, 07:53 PM
How have I not seen this thread until now?

Brilliant!

Kaylore
07-19-2012, 08:07 PM
The denial in this thread is ridiculous. The road to the AFC West crown goes through Denver. KCDud is going to end up VERY disappointed and I for one will bathe in his tears.

I love the comment "Denver was 4-12 going into last year." Didn't the Chiefs go from 4-12 to 10-6 in one year? I think adding Peyton Manning to an 8-8 team can do better.

Kaylore
07-19-2012, 08:13 PM
How have I not seen this thread until now?

Brilliant!

All four teams fans have made comments, which has made this thread go fabulously. :approve:

KCStud
07-19-2012, 08:33 PM
I love the comment "Denver was 4-12 going into last year." Didn't the Chiefs go from 4-12 to 10-6 in one year? I think adding Peyton Manning to an 8-8 team can do better.

The amount of fail coming from you in this thread is fantastic.Hilarious!

Btw KC went 4-12 3 years ago numbnutz

CEH
07-19-2012, 08:41 PM
The amount of fail coming from you in this thread is fantastic.Hilarious!

Btw KC went 4-12 3 years ago numbnutz

Please stop posting. He is correct KC went from 4-12 to 10-6 in one year

KCStud
07-19-2012, 08:43 PM
Please stop posting. He is correct KC went from 4-12 to 10-6 in one year

And then won 7 games with devastating injuries, meaning the core of the team is stronger than Denver's...

lonestar
07-19-2012, 09:08 PM
I disagree on Romeo. I think the players will play hard for him since he isn't Todd Haley at first, but when the Crenelling sets in, they will come up short. Romeo is a coordinator.

I do agree that the Chargers have really fallen off. AJ Smith hit on some really good picks a few years ago in Brees, LT, Merriman and Sproles. I don't give him credit for Rivers since he was the boobie prize. All of those guys are gone except Rivers. Meachem and Royal? Please.

I know that he had a problem in his last HC job, thinking like mikey he would have learned from that..

But there is little doubt that their D will be the best in the division.. BAsed on talent and his ability to think D..

Whether the Offense gets it together now that is another story.. But the tools are there, perhaps not a great QB, but we all know that a great D can keep you in alot of games and win a few for you.. hell maybe enven get you and Ring alla BAL and CHI, with less than great QB's..

As for SAN I'll bet that Eddie has great games against us.. something about having a woodie for another team and having some talent to make things happen..

SouthStndJunkie
07-19-2012, 09:56 PM
If Sand Cassel doesn't show progress this season for Kansas City, I'd start Ricky Stanzi for the last half of the season to get a look at him.

This is Sand Cassel's 4th season in Kansas City....time to produce or take a seat and let someone else have their opportunity.

CEH
07-20-2012, 05:24 AM
And then won 7 games with devastating injuries, meaning the core of the team is stronger than Denver's...

Quit changing the subject. Calling him numbnuts for a valid comment is what I'm talking about asshat. God you are a moron..

Most of the time I don't care what you say but this time you are flat out wrong. You're reading compehension must be at a 3rd grade level. You should have that checked out.

phibacka31
07-20-2012, 06:12 AM
The point is that Manning chose where he would have control. I think he would have been just fine in San Francisco.
If KC had signed Manning, he would have had a much better shot simply because of the team surrounding him. KC would have offered him a better deal such as a top 10 defense and top 10 running game with a good receiving core and OT's.

I think you're forgetting that Denver was a 4-12 team going into last year.

Just stop... your receiving core is not great dude... not saying the broncos is but come on... add to that the broncos almost always have a top tier running game so that point is mute. Tony moecki while talented gets banged up a lot. Your defense has a solid foundation but it is not superb. O and your oline did so well keeping cassell up right when von came to town...

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 07:09 AM
The denial in this thread is ridiculous. The road to the AFC West crown goes through Denver. KCDud is going to end up VERY disappointed and I for one will bathe in his tears.

Denver has the worst talent in the division, and Peyton Manning even in his prime , wouldn't be able to hide that fact. It going to be so great with these Denver fan unrealistic high expectations fore the 2012 season. It going to feel so good when it all crumbles around them. last place in the division)

Would even be sweeter IF Tebow becomes Jet starting Qb , and takes that team to the Playoffs.

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 07:22 AM
I love the comment "Denver was 4-12 going into last year." Didn't the Chiefs go from 4-12 to 10-6 in one year? I think adding Peyton Manning to an 8-8 team can do better.

On paper you were an 8-8. Everything went right for the Broncos in 2011. A lot of injuries in the division(Kc and raiders) and won a lot of games in strange fashion- bounce went there way. (with that you still won only eight games)

The Bronco talent is by far the weakest overall in the division(No I'm not saying they don't have top talent in certain position) Just overall talent.


Everyone in the division plays the same schedule. (tough schedule) Just two games are different. Those two games are big. Denver see the Patriot and the Texans. While everyone else get a little better matchup.

10 games will win the AFc West. I think Raiders and chiefs will both make the playoffs in 2012.

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 07:28 AM
Just stop... your receiving core is not great dude... not saying the broncos is but come on... add to that the broncos almost always have a top tier running game so that point is mute. Tony moecki while talented gets banged up a lot. Your defense has a solid foundation but it is not superb. O and your oline did so well keeping cassell up right when von came to town...

You really expect the Broncos to have a top running game in 2012. Tim Tebow was a big factor in that succes. Your delusional if you think it wasn't.

The Broncos have at best the third best rushing attack in the division. 1 Raiders. 2 Chiefs 3 Denver.

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 07:32 AM
And then won 7 games with devastating injuries, meaning the core of the team is stronger than Denver's...

Without a doubt the Raiders and Chiefs have the two best talent in the division. That why I think it a two team race(Raiders- Chiefs) to see who wins the west.


The other Chargers and Denver will be batlling for last place.(not the division)

CEH
07-20-2012, 07:37 AM
Denver has the worst talent in the division, and Peyton Manning even in his prime , wouldn't be able to hide that fact. It going to be so great with these Denver fan unrealistic high expectations fore the 2012 season. It going to feel so good when it all crumbles around them. last place in the division)

Would even be sweeter IF Tebow becomes Jet starting Qb , and takes that team to the Playoffs.

You mean talent like Indy last year that went 2-14 without Manning and made the playoffs every year except his rookie year with him?

OK got it. I guess all the talent left Indy when Manning went down last year

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 07:46 AM
You mean talent like Indy last year that went 2-14 without Manning and made the playoffs every year except his rookie year with him?

OK got it. I guess all the talent left Indy when Manning went down last year

Hey your entitle to believe Manning capable of doing that, at 36 years of age with four neck surgeries . ( Didn't play in one game in 2011) Playing in a new offense, less talent at the skill position than he use to playing with, and every time he drops back to throw -someone will make sure they get a hit on him. ( see Aikman and B Favre) Eventually that going to take its toll.

JMO It will be a great year for Broncos if they win 8 games in 2012. DJ Williams and Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) missing some games. isn't going to hurt the defense.

Drek
07-20-2012, 08:19 AM
Hey your entitle to believe Manning capable of doing that, at 36 years of age with four neck surgeries . ( Didn't play in one game in 2011) Playing in a new offense, less talent at the skill position than he use to playing with, and every time he drops back to throw -someone will make sure they get a hit on him. ( see Aikman and B Favre) Eventually that going to take its toll.

JMO It will be a great year for Broncos if they win 8 games in 2012. DJ Williams and Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) missing some games. isn't going to hurt the defense.

The charges look likely to be completely dismissed on Doom. At that point there is no cause for a suspension. He likely won't miss a game of pre-season, let alone a regular season game.

DJ is solid but unspectacular. He isn't a major loss in any way.

As for Manning's weapons:
In 2010 the Colts were an elite offense and made it to the Super Bowl. Manning relied heavily on an aging Wayne, two guys everyone agrees lived off of Manning's ability to coach them up (Garcon and Collie), and after losing Dallas Clark early in the season Jacob Tamme emerged as a major target at the TE position. The loss of Clark took away the versatility of his 12 personnel sets as well, Manning's favorite base to work out of. His running backs were the elite tandem of Addai and Brown.

Now in Denver he's got the TE he did so well with in 2010 (Tamme) along with a far better #2 (Dreeeeessssseeeeen), and a #3 who has real receiving potential (Julius Thomas). Better TE corps all around than what he actually played within 2010.

At WR both Decker and Thomas are more talented than Garcon or Collie. One of them needs to step up and be the reliable weapon that Reggie Wayne has been for Manning, but from a raw tools standpoint Decker is a great comp (excellent short range quickness, tight routes, works great in the short to intermediate area) not to mention bigger and stronger. Thomas gives Manning the first truly elite speed threat he's had since Harrison got done, while Thomas is also another bigger, stronger option than what Manning has ever had before.

At RB the Broncos have McGahee, a far more proven and consistent runner than anyone Manning had in Indy since James left. Behind him is Moreno who when healthy had a first two years every bit the equal of Addai's first two, in a far worse offense in nearly every way. Then after that is Ronnie Hillman who has real X factor potential at the RB spot, giving far better depth than Indy ever offered Manning.

The OL is obviously better at every position except C over what Manning played with in 2010. The OL is also young and improving year to year even without Manning.

Also, Manning isn't changing offenses, he's bringing his offense with him, while Fox and Magazu keep the power running game they built for 12 personnel as the season went on in tact.

As for overall team talent, I'd put the Broncos roster up against anyone's in the division. There are a lot of talented players on this roster, and Denver clearly has the divisional market on playmakers on either side of the ball cornered.

Tombstone RJ
07-20-2012, 08:58 AM
The amount of fail coming from you in this thread is fantastic.Hilarious!

Btw KC went 4-12 3 years ago numbnutz

he never said that happened last year, he said kc went from 4-12 to 10-6 in ONE YEAR.

Tombstone RJ
07-20-2012, 09:03 AM
Without a doubt the Raiders and Chiefs have the two best talent in the division. That why I think it a two team race(Raiders- Chiefs) to see who wins the west.


The other Chargers and Denver will be batlling for last place.(not the division)

Hilarious!

uplink
07-20-2012, 09:04 AM
The chefs are going to have a tough defense this year maybe the best unit in the division offense or defense. If Cassel plays well I could see them taking the division, but that won't happen.

Mogulseeker
07-20-2012, 09:09 AM
Hey your entitle to believe Manning capable of doing that, at 36 years of age with four neck surgeries . ( Didn't play in one game in 2011) Playing in a new offense, less talent at the skill position than he use to playing with, and every time he drops back to throw -someone will make sure they get a hit on him. ( see Aikman and B Favre) Eventually that going to take its toll.

JMO It will be a great year for Broncos if they win 8 games in 2012. DJ Williams and Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) missing some games. isn't going to hurt the defense.

Logical fallacy much? The Broncos and the Colts both did not have Manning last year. The Broncos went to the second round of the playoffs. The Colts got the 1st pick in the draft. Now the Broncos have Manning.

Also, work on your subject-verb agreement a little bit, dude. I'm sure most 3rd graders could conclude that the loss of two good players would, in fact, hurt a defense.

underrated29
07-20-2012, 10:47 AM
Denver has the worst talent in the division, and Peyton Manning even in his prime , wouldn't be able to hide that fact. It going to be so great with these Denver fan unrealistic high expectations fore the 2012 season. It going to feel so good when it all crumbles around them. last place in the division)

Would even be sweeter IF Tebow becomes Jet starting Qb , and takes that team to the Playoffs.



Is there someway to sticky this post or maybe put it in this raider guys sig. Making him see his own post after we are going for title and his team is not...

Please mods. This needs to be done.

underrated29
07-20-2012, 10:49 AM
The shot of the whole thread and goes completely unnoticed?

Sly, very sly.



I was cracking up when i put it in there

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 11:47 AM
Logical fallacy much? The Broncos and the Colts both did not have Manning last year. The Broncos went to the second round of the playoffs. The Colts got the 1st pick in the draft. Now the Broncos have Manning.

Also, work on your subject-verb agreement a little bit, dude. I'm sure most 3rd graders could conclude that the loss of two good players would, in fact, hurt a defense.

The Broncos were lucky that both the Chiefs and Raiders had injuries last year, and the Broncos got every kind of Break( Dolphin, Jet , Bears etc) You really think you get those kind of breaks every year.

Here is the clincher with all that you still only finished 8-8.
Peyton Manning isn't improving the WR, the RB, or the Oline that gave up 42 sacks in a team that was all run.
Again only team that should be any competition for the Raiders is the chiefs.(two team race for the division).


BTw The funniest part the Bronco fans think they have a good defense. It's garbage. The Raiders offense put up over 400 yards on that tough defense(cough cough). That was with a QB just off his couch, didn't know the offense, the plays , and didn't have any timing down with his wr corps..

Now imagine what a guy who more comfortable with the offense and his wr corp can do. Yea that Bronco defense scares me- not.

CEH
07-20-2012, 11:52 AM
Hey your entitle to believe Manning capable of doing that, at 36 years of age with four neck surgeries . ( Didn't play in one game in 2011) Playing in a new offense, less talent at the skill position than he use to playing with, and every time he drops back to throw -someone will make sure they get a hit on him. ( see Aikman and B Favre) Eventually that going to take its toll.

JMO It will be a great year for Broncos if they win 8 games in 2012. DJ Williams and Dumberville(probably facing a suspension) missing some games. isn't going to hurt the defense.

The factor you are not accounting for is the hurry up at altitude. There is no way you can prepare within the week for the altitude let alone one that is running in hurry up mode. This could be the one piece of the Manning offense many are underestimating

We shall see

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 12:13 PM
The factor you are not accounting for is the hurry up at altitude. There is no way you can prepare within the week for the altitude let alone one that is running in hurry up mode. This could be the one piece of the Manning offense many are underestimating

We shall see

When was the last time raiders lost in Denver.(okay I know it doesn't apply to your point, just had to get that little zinger in there) Have the raiders lost to the Broncos since you went to the new stadium.

How effective is the hurry up going to be when Peyton manning doesn't have the same chemistry with the Bronco receivers, he had with the Colts wr.
Raiders have safeties that can easily take out the Bronco Te's.


The Broncos defense is not stopping the Raiders offense . Too much on offense for the Bronco defense to handle. Neither of the Broncos two impact players (Doom and V miller) scare me. Raiders exploit the undersized doom every time in the running game.

Kaylore
07-20-2012, 12:24 PM
Champ Bailey owns Carson Palmer. Absolutely owns him.

broncocalijohn
07-20-2012, 12:28 PM
Yeah, what happens when McFadden is sidelined for the umpteenth time, inexperienced TE trying to get open and Heyward-Bey dropping balls left and right? Good luck with the optimism. I wonder what you posted on your Raider sites every year since your SB run. All Super Bowl talk and nothing but 11 or more losses. Then of course comes the excuses. You are a typical, myopic Raiders fan. You bring out the stereotype to a "T". Congratulations.

BTW, not sure when Denver last beat the Faiders in Denver but I do remember Shanahan calling the timout to kicker the druggie and it worked. You b****es cried "He cheated! BS play!" Then you guys pull it off with the same play the very next week and not one peep from the Faider crowd.

DontBeMessin
07-20-2012, 12:48 PM
The Oakland Raiders
Last season: 8-8

Offseason Losses: QB Jason Campbell, RB Michael Bush, WR Chaz Schilens, TE Kevin Boss, OT Stephon Heyer, G Bruce Campbell, C Samson Satele, DE/OLB Kamerion Wimbley, DE Trevor Scott, DE Jarvis Moss, DE Quentin Groves, DT John Henderson, ILB Darryl Blackstock, CB Stanford Routt, CB Chris Johnson, CB Lito Sheppard.

Veteran Additions: QB Matt Leinart, RB Mike Goodson, FB Owen Schmitt, G Mike Brisiel, DE Dave Tollefson, OLB Philip Wheeler, CB Shawntae Spencer, CB Ronald Bartell, CB Patrick Lee, HC Dennis Allen.

Draft Picks:

Round 3: Tony Bergstrom OT Utard
Round 4: Miles Burris OLB San Diego St.
Round 5: Jack Crowford DE Penn St.
Round 5: Juron Criner WR Arizona
Round 6: Christo Bilukidi DE Georgia St.
Round 7: Nathan Stupar OLB Penn St.

Schedule:
Sept. 10 San Diego Chargers (Mon.) 10:15 p.m.
Sept. 16 at Miami Dolphins 4:15 p.m.
Sept. 23 Pittsburgh Steelers 4:15 p.m.
Sept. 30 at Denver Broncos 4:05 p.m.
Oct. 7 BYE
Oct. 14 at Atlanta Falcons 1 p.m.
Oct. 21 Jacksonville Jaguars 4:15 p.m.
Oct. 28 at Kansas City Chiefs 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 4 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 11 at Baltimore Ravens 1 p.m.
Nov. 18 New Orleans Saints 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 25 at Cincinnati Bengals 1 p.m.
Dec. 2 Cleveland Browns 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 6 Denver Broncos (Thurs.) 8:20 p.m.
Dec. 16 Kansas City Chiefs 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 23 at Carolina Panthers 1 p.m.
Dec. 30 at San Diego Chargers 4:15 p.m.

Analysis: Oakland was part of the three way tie between the Broncos and Chargers that could have won the division. Injuries and player transitions were a big reason the offense stumbled. The defense falling to 29th in the league didn’t help either. Predictably, they are firing their coach (again) and signed a really young replacement with little experience in Dennis Allen, who two years ago was a secondary coach and came from a team he coached to 20th in defense and 24th in scoring (which admittedly was a step forward), Outside of Juron Criner and Tony Bergstrom, their draft class is too small to expect any kind of immediate help there. Palmer is a big factor. If he improves, he could help them through a rough schedule that includes some horrible back-and-forth to the East Coast in the middle of the season. More likely, he will be the same Carson Palmer that we’ve seen for several years: Moments of brilliance in an overall mediocre show. Darren McFadden will be back, which should help, but expect some fallout as Michael Bush is out, and putting more carries on a clearly fragile McFadden will not bode well for his long term reliability next seasons. Running backs don’t get more durable the more they play. Also, every coach who was part of their vaunted running game is now gone. Their defensive line took a hit with Wimbley gone, and the rest of the unit is starting to show its age, so there may be some fallout there. I do think Oakland’s receivers are underrated and there is some fantasy value at the position, especially when you consider they’re going to be throwing a lot to keep up this year.

Prediction 5-11: I think this is a transition year for the Raiders (isn’t every year?). They’ve lost too many free agents the past two years and given up too many draft picks for players with ho-hum ability to see any short-term grown. The good news for them is Al Davis is gone and they will no longer just be drafting the fastest guy in underwear at every position, so there is some hope that things will turn around, but not for several years. With a hard schedule, too many new pieces, and not very reliable ones on the roster, I don’t expect much from the Raiders this season.

You must have been on something writing this all up at 2 am… No wonder it a little ridiculous… Yea – we went 8-8 last season with our starting QB out – RB out – BOTH CB’s out and one of our Safties. And because we changed coaches – we will be worst?

How does that work?

DontBeMessin
07-20-2012, 12:52 PM
Champ Bailey owns Carson Palmer. Absolutely owns him.

Chump Bailey owns nothing... Do you see my avatar? That's Porter IN DENVER and who is that behind him - walking away - sad...

Who is..

Who...

Who is that...?


CHUMP BAILEY?!?!? Nooooo..... And that's Porter? Who was Porters QB? What...? That fat kid... What was his name?

I will say this - Porter sucked - JaSuckass well - look at his name... We have McFadden and the best WR's in the AFC West... We will make Chump Bailey look his tired ass age!!!

Kaylore
07-20-2012, 12:52 PM
You must have been on something writing this all up at 2 am… No wonder it a little ridiculous… Yea – we went 8-8 last season with our starting QB out – RB out – BOTH CB’s out and one of our Safties. And because we changed coaches – we will be worst?

How does that work?

It's very simple. You guys suck balls.

Kaylore
07-20-2012, 12:54 PM
Chump Bailey owns nothing... Do you see my avatar? That's Porter IN DENVER and who is that behind him - walking away - sad...

Who is..

Who...

Who is that...?


CHUMP BAILEY?!?!? Nooooo..... And that's Porter? Who was Porters QB? What...? That fat kid... What was his name?

I will say this - Porter sucked - JaSuckass well - look at his name... We have McFadden and the best WR's in the AFC West... We will make Chump Bailey look his tired ass age!!!

I'm not sure what that game has to do with Carson Palmer, but Bailey dominates him almost as much as he dominated Randy Moss - it's close, but Moss gets it just because he had more chances to lose against Bailey.

oubronco
07-20-2012, 01:21 PM
:strong:

underrated29
07-20-2012, 01:42 PM
I still cannot see how the faid think they have the best wr in the division.

DHB- stone hands, getting stoned and dui. All he can do is run fast and drop balls. Not good.

Denarius Moore- Good WR, fast, can run routes and make catches. Solid Guy here.

Jacoby Ford- Another fast guy, small, easy to re-route but can catch. - Another eddie royal. Average to slightly above average.

Louis Murphy- I actually really like him, but hes always hurt, possesion wr.

Chaz Schillenz- big, strong, similar to marshall but hes always hurt. Does he even play for the raiders anymore?

The rest of the guys are all unproven or rookies not worth mentioning.


Cheifs have Bowe- who is better than any WR the raiders have and one of the best in the division, possibly a top 20 in the league.

Baldwin- Super talented diva. But he has a case of the dropsies. Not nearly as chronic, well actually he is, he is like DHB-fast and drops balls- only better.

Devon wylie- this is a rookie who is worthy of praise. Wes Welker type of guy.

Breaston-big guy, nothing fancy but solid. Id say close to chaz in terms of production availability

Bolts:

Meachum- Id take him over DHB anyday, not as fast, but he can catch, which is what a receiver does. He receives the football. He also can break tackles when he runs

Royal- Like a jacoby ford only slower, better route runner but also gets re-routed easily. About equal

M80- Malcom floyd, big fast explosive...Like DHB only he can catch but imo not all that talented. He is no Denarious but hes not that bad.

Broncos:

DT- Its between him and Bowe as the best WR in the division. DT is bigger than all of them, faster than most of them and stronger than all. He gets dinged up though and has not shown what he can do with a QB yet. More or less an unknown.

Decker- Big, strong, had a few easy drops, but only credited with 4. I know I would, but I am bias, but I have a feeling the other teams (bolts and chefs) would take him over DHB. Id say Decker is equivalent to Denarius Moore. Different type of player obviously, but number wise close.

Caldwell- Hes fast, surprised the raiders didnt draft him. I have no clue. As of now, the nod goes to DHB over caldwell. With manning I would not be surprised to see that change.

Stokley- old but still quick. Best slot guy in division, but now that age has caught up with him id say no. That would go to royal if hes there or ford, if they put him there


Then we have TEs:

Bolts- Gates and homandnoulamuanau (best set by far)
Chefs- Moeki and boss?- Solid- very solid, and proven.
broncos- tamme and dressen- solid and proven- equal to chefs, but below the chargers
Raiders- who and who? Myers and assbergers?---NOT a F'ING CHANCE!



How exactly do the raiders have the best wr in the division? Someone not an idiot raider fan explain to me, please.



PS- Here is the typical raider response....These guys have all the potential in the world, they are bigger than big and faster than fast. They leap tall buildings in a single bound and impregnant women just by looking at them.

Yes, we know, all potential means is that you can Not do something. If you could it wouldnt be potential. It would be proven, success, done, something that the raiders know nothing about yet always try to preach.

Mogulseeker
07-20-2012, 01:46 PM
The Broncos were lucky that both the Chiefs and Raiders had injuries last year, and the Broncos got every kind of Break( Dolphin, Jet , Bears etc) You really think you get those kind of breaks every year.

Here is the clincher with all that you still only finished 8-8.
Peyton Manning isn't improving the WR, the RB, or the Oline that gave up 42 sacks in a team that was all run.
Again only team that should be any competition for the Raiders is the chiefs.(two team race for the division).


BTw The funniest part the Bronco fans think they have a good defense. It's garbage. The Raiders offense put up over 400 yards on that tough defense(cough cough). That was with a QB just off his couch, didn't know the offense, the plays , and didn't have any timing down with his wr corps..

Now imagine what a guy who more comfortable with the offense and his wr corp can do. Yea that Bronco defense scares me- not.. Are you implying that we've got you by the balls?

vancejohnson82
07-20-2012, 01:48 PM
Chump Bailey owns nothing... Do you see my avatar? That's Porter IN DENVER and who is that behind him - walking away - sad...

Who is..

Who...

Who is that...?


CHUMP BAILEY?!?!? Nooooo..... And that's Porter? Who was Porters QB? What...? That fat kid... What was his name?

I will say this - Porter sucked - JaSuckass well - look at his name... We have McFadden and the best WR's in the AFC West... We will make Chump Bailey look his tired ass age!!!

The same Jerry Porter that is no longer in the league?

Good reference

DontBeMessin
07-20-2012, 01:51 PM
It's very simple. You guys suck balls.

When we are pulling three players from their couches to play and finish the season on our starting squad to have a record that TIED YOURS...

Yea - we sucked balls... What is your excuse?

DontBeMessin
07-20-2012, 01:54 PM
I'm not sure what that game has to do with Carson Palmer, but Bailey dominates him almost as much as he dominated Randy Moss - it's close, but Moss gets it just because he had more chances to lose against Bailey.

First off - you are talking about two different positions therefore you can't compare them. Chump can dominate Palmer all day - I could care less... When Denarius Moore leave his old ass five yards in the dust is what you should be worried about...

DontBeMessin
07-20-2012, 01:56 PM
The same Jerry Porter that is no longer in the league?

Good reference

THAT IS CORRECT!!!!

That same sorry son of a Kosar ripped Bailey... I know you don't get it, but it's okay I do - and I am laughing!!! Hilarious!

Mogulseeker
07-20-2012, 01:59 PM
If I were a casual onlooker with now football knowledge whatsoever, and I was looking at the thread, the bevy of grammatical errors and logical fallacies in the posts by those supporting the Raiders and the Chiefs would lead me to take the side of Denver, simply because the only hint of rationality in this thread, in fact, comes from The Denver fans.

There are dumb fans everywhere, sure... But this also makes me question the intelligence of people who traverse to rival forums. Bob, KCStud, Dontbemessin, And Raider9175 are all unfortunate cautionary tragedies from the margins of the achievement gap in the US education system. It is best to ignore them...

vancejohnson82
07-20-2012, 02:03 PM
THAT IS CORRECT!!!!

That same sorry son of a Kosar ripped Bailey... I know you don't get it, but it's okay I do - and I am laughing!!! Hilarious!

ridiculous...bringing up a one time career day in the snow from a guy who has no NFL merits to stand on and throw him into a conversation with a guy who is put in conversation as G.O.A.T at his position

cute

lonestar
07-20-2012, 02:13 PM
If I were a casual onlooker with now football knowledge whatsoever, and I was looking at the thread, the bevy of grammatical errors and logical fallacies in the posts by those supporting the Raiders and the Chiefs would lead me to take the side of Denver, simply because the only hint of rationality in this thread, in fact, comes from The Denver fans.

There are dumb fans everywhere, sure... But this also makes me question the intelligence of people who traverse to rival forums. Bob, KCStud, Dontbemessin, And Raider9175 are all unfortunate cautionary tragedies from the margins of the achievement gap in the US education system. It is best to ignore them...

must be the son of raider ho whoops I mean raider joe..
now that man could talk some smack during off-season especially right after the draft.. up to when the raiders started losing then he flat disappeared from all the broncos sites..

Only to be seen again right after the draft with how great all of aldaviss choices where.. never forget him slobbering all over robert Gallery..how he would be the best OLT in the NFL for decades.

I've heard it seen, it and HOPED it for going on 6 decades about how this would be THE season we won it all, all up to and before the season started and then reality set in that those draft (DAFT choices in mikeys case) really did not fix the problem..

DontBeMessin
07-20-2012, 02:34 PM
If I were a casual onlooker with now football knowledge whatsoever, and I was looking at the thread, the bevy of grammatical errors and logical fallacies in the posts by those supporting the Raiders and the Chiefs would lead me to take the side of Denver, simply because the only hint of rationality in this thread, in fact, comes from The Denver fans.

There are dumb fans everywhere, sure... But this also makes me question the intelligence of people who traverse to rival forums. Bob, KCStud, Dontbemessin, And Raider9175 are all unfortunate cautionary tragedies from the margins of the achievement gap in the US education system. It is best to ignore them...

Ha... I find your post HIGH - LARIOUS!!! If you want to read the posts and see the grammar of the average Bronco fan? Really?

Do you even know how long I have been here trying to decipher mullet speak?

DontBeMessin
07-20-2012, 02:35 PM
ridiculous...bringing up a one time career day in the snow from a guy who has no NFL merits to stand on and throw him into a conversation with a guy who is put in conversation as G.O.A.T at his position

cute

I know... and it was funny too!!!!

DontBeMessin
07-20-2012, 02:38 PM
If I were a casual onlooker with now football knowledge whatsoever, and I was looking at the thread, the bevy of grammatical errors and logical fallacies in the posts by those supporting the Raiders and the Chiefs would lead me to take the side of Denver, simply because the only hint of rationality in this thread, in fact, comes from The Denver fans.

There are dumb fans everywhere, sure... But this also makes me question the intelligence of people who traverse to rival forums. Bob, KCStud, Dontbemessin, And Raider9175 are all unfortunate cautionary tragedies from the margins of the achievement gap in the US education system. It is best to ignore them...

The second response: Kahn's is the superior!

Still on the first page mind you...

He implies they will start.

Especially since he didn't even bring up Eric Winston, our new RT and major FA signing.

underrated29
07-20-2012, 02:48 PM
When we are pulling three players from their couches to play and finish the season on our starting squad to have a record that TIED YOURS...

Yea - we sucked balls... What is your excuse?



Well, if its excuses you want:

We lost our starting RB (moreno)
We lost our Starting DT (ty warren)
We lost our other starting DT (Big Vick)
We lost our starting S (dawkins)
We lost our starting RG (kuper)
We lost our starting FB (larsen)
We lost our staring SLB and DROY for a few games (Von Miller)
We lost our other starting RB (Mcgahee) for a bit due to injury
We had one of the best sack master in the league hampered by injury (doom)
We had Demaryius Thomas on Pup until week 6
We also switched QBs on the fly like you did, only ours had only 3 games starting experience and was a project. Not a proven passer who was polished like you.



So that is 6 starters off the top of my head, with another few players missing almost half the year due to injury, all of which are or were starters before they got hurt.

E_Rox
07-20-2012, 03:03 PM
Royal gone for several games and oh yeah

Traded the NFL's leading yardage receiver from 2010 mid season

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 03:12 PM
Champ Bailey owns Carson Palmer. Absolutely owns him.

Like D revis, which Champ Bailey not even close to that level anymore. Why even challenge Champ when you can go after t Porter (no elite cb) and the Broncos third Cb. The Raiders trio of DHB, D moore and jacoby Ford should have a mismatch somewhere every time against the Bronco secondary.

In the new offense the running backs will be a big part of the passing offense. That means whether Its DMC/Goodson(both will move out to WR a lot as both have legitimate Wr skills ) or Fb marcel reece your talking serious mismatches there. (that very safe passes that should cut c Palmer interceptions)

That not even taking the running game into consideration as The Bronco haven't stopped it for how long now.


You add raiders running game with so many options in the passing game and the Bronco don't have enough on defense to stop it.

Raiders have a full healthy offense and no one in the AFC west is stopping this offense. Chiefs might have one of the better defense in Afc West but that defense isn't elite. ( not even close to a dominating defense)


BTw jacoby Ford did seem to give Champ Bailey all kinds of problems.

Tombstone RJ
07-20-2012, 03:18 PM
what are the chances McFadden stays healthy all season? Also, anyone besides faiders homers know how good or bad the faiders oline is going to be?

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 03:22 PM
First off - you are talking about two different positions therefore you can't compare them. Chump can dominate Palmer all day - I could care less... When Denarius Moore leave his old ass five yards in the dust is what you should be worried about...

Champ Bailey did seem to do abetter job on Denarius Moore but he had no answer for Jacoby Ford. Champ Bailey and his cane couldn't handle the speed of Jacoby Ford.

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 03:50 PM
what are the chances McFadden stays healthy all season? Also, anyone besides faiders homers know how good or bad the faiders oline is going to be?

Until DMC proves he can stay healthy there will always be question marks there. I think Mike Goodson and Taiwan Jones are going to be big time players in this zone blocking scheme. (fit the system perfect)


Raiders oline only gave up 25 sacks last year . The Raiders seem to upgrade that oline big time this year and it a better fit for the new blocking scheme.

Lets see last Year Oline LT Jared Veldheer 6'8 325 LG S Wisniewski 6'3 315 C Samson Satele 6'3 299 RG cooper carlisle 6'5 305 Rt Khalif barnes 6'6 325


Versus LT jared Veldheer 6'8 325 LG Tony Bergstrom 6'5 315 (fits the system very well) C S wisniewski 6'3 315 RG M Brisiel 6'5 305 Rt Khalif Barnes 6'6 325 .

Not only is the oline a good fit for the zone blocking scheme but they should be more stout in the middle.(was a problem last year) Satele and carlisle could be overpowered , that doesn't look like that will be the case this year.


BTw Even further bad news for AFC west foes. As good as S wisniewski played last year. He played with a torn labrum all season( hurt in in training camp) . Imagine what he can do fully healthy.

DENVERDUI55
07-20-2012, 04:09 PM
Raiders have a full healthy offense and no one in the AFC west is stopping this offense. .

and the Raiders aren't stopping anyone with that D they are going to field. PM is going to carve them up left and right. Our D can slow down Oakland while our O carves them up.

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 04:17 PM
and the Raiders aren't stopping anyone with that D they are going to field. PM is going to carve them up left and right. Our D can slow down Oakland while our O carves them up.

Your defense can't slow down the Raiders offense. That is a fact. Whether they want to run it or pass it. What will the Raiders defense be like. I really can't give you an answer there. Who knows.


All I know is with how good the Raiders offense will be, they don't need that defense to be top 10.(See Patriots, Saints, and Packers) That defense is just average, and the Raiders are running away with the AFc west.


The Broncos offense doesn't have the talent yet on offense to play with the raiders or match them point for point.

lonestar
07-20-2012, 05:15 PM
Your defense can't slow down the Raiders offense. That is a fact. Whether they want to run it or pass it. What will the Raiders defense be like. I really can't give you an answer there. Who knows.


All I know is with how good the Raiders offense will be, they don't need that defense to be top 10.(See Patriots, Saints, and Packers) That defense is just average, and the Raiders are running away with the AFc west.


The Broncos offense doesn't have the talent yet on offense to play with the raiders or match them point for point.

You sure your not raiderjoe?

 sure talk trash like he did.. as some said talking out of his ass.
:rofl:
time will tell who is correct.. But I suspect you will be very quiet after a few games just like he was..

Let me just add aldavis buried that club with loads of dysfunctional talent and cap eaters..

I feared the day that he would die and someone who did not have his head up his speedy ass would come in and let a coach do his job, COACH..

lets revisit this converstaion come sep 31st.. :rofl:

razorwire77
07-20-2012, 05:23 PM
Your defense can't slow down the Raiders offense. That is a fact. Whether they want to run it or pass it. What will the Raiders defense be like. I really can't give you an answer there. Who knows.


All I know is with how good the Raiders offense will be, they don't need that defense to be top 10.(See Patriots, Saints, and Packers) That defense is just average, and the Raiders are running away with the AFc west.


The Broncos offense doesn't have the talent yet on offense to play with the raiders or match them point for point.

Except for that one time at bandcamp where they absolutely molested your defense running a basic high school read option offense with Tim Tebow. And also that one time last year where they were one Kyle Orton boner away from beating you at home . And now they have Peyton ****ing Manning and yet they don't have the talent to play with Oakland offensively. Hilarious!

DENVERDUI55
07-20-2012, 05:25 PM
Your defense can't slow down the Raiders offense. That is a fact. Whether they want to run it or pass it. What will the Raiders defense be like. I really can't give you an answer there. Who knows.


All I know is with how good the Raiders offense will be, they don't need that defense to be top 10.(See Patriots, Saints, and Packers) That defense is just average, and the Raiders are running away with the AFc west.


The Broncos offense doesn't have the talent yet on offense to play with the raiders or match them point for point.

You guys have pick 6 Palmer. He had one great year and that was it. Very overrated player and there was a reason the Raiders were the only team willing to pay waaaay to much for him.

richpjr
07-20-2012, 05:49 PM
I haven't read every post in this thread, but there are 3 teams capable of winning the AFC West this year, and none of them are the Raiders. On paper, the Broncos finally have a QB, the Chiefs are healthy, and the Chargers look like they have substantially upgraded their defense. The Raiders...got worse. I guess we'll see.

Mogulseeker
07-20-2012, 06:22 PM
Ha... I find your post HIGH - LARIOUS!!! If you want to read the posts and see the grammar of the average Bronco fan? Really?

Do you even know how long I have been here trying to decipher mullet speak?

Smart people can detect dialects...

I like how you take two isolated examples while ignoring your own shortcomings. Another logical fallacy, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that with a California education.

KCStud
07-20-2012, 06:27 PM
Logical fallacy much? The Broncos and the Colts both did not have Manning last year. The Broncos went to the second round of the playoffs. The Colts got the 1st pick in the draft. Now the Broncos have Manning.

Also, work on your subject-verb agreement a little bit, dude. I'm sure most 3rd graders could conclude that the loss of two good players would, in fact, hurt a defense.

Who did the Broncos beat last year to get to the playoffs?

That's right. You beat losing teams with devastating injuries or just bad teams.

One of your eight wins came against a winning team and got your asses handed to you when you played elite teams.

This year you play very good teams all year (6 of first 8 games against playoff teams and a MNF game at SD), so the whole "we were 8-8 last year and we got Manning" doesn't help your case.

DENVERDUI55
07-20-2012, 06:57 PM
Who did the Broncos beat last year to get to the playoffs?

That's right. You beat losing teams with devastating injuries or just bad teams.

One of your eight wins came against a winning team and got your asses handed to you when you played elite teams.

This year you play very good teams all year (6 of first 8 games against playoff teams and a MNF game at SD), so the whole "we were 8-8 last year and we got Manning" doesn't help your case.

How many of those teams had 8-8 records because we beat them? Not saying that Denver was a great team but we beat who we were supposed to and an 8-8 team is only a few breaks away from 12-4.

richpjr
07-20-2012, 07:23 PM
How many of those teams had 8-8 records because we beat them? Not saying that Denver was a great team but we beat who we were supposed to and an 8-8 team is only a few breaks away from 12-4.

By that logic, the team was only a few breaks away from being 4-12 too. In the end, you are what your record says you are.

DENVERDUI55
07-20-2012, 07:44 PM
By that logic, the team was only a few breaks away from being 4-12 too. In the end, you are what your record says you are.

That is true and very true for us last year.

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 07:50 PM
You guys have pick 6 Palmer. He had one great year and that was it. Very overrated player and there was a reason the Raiders were the only team willing to pay waaaay to much for him.

Lets see Carson Palmer was 199 completions in 328 attempts for 61% completion percentage 8.4 average per completion. (that number going way up with healthy DMC)

Yes he did throw too many interceptions last season. Again not making an excuse but he did come off his couch cold week 7. (Not knowing the offense, The Players, and never had chance to play with DMC. You expect him to be a lot more comfortable in the offense.

Now the Raiders offense he playing in is a WCO(means a lot more safe passes to running backs and Tight ends . That in itself going to decrease his interception total a lot.

JMO There no way Carson Palmer if he stays healthy doesn't have his best season ever in the Pro's. There is just too much explosive weapons on offense. a Healthy DMc just just opens the deep passing game even more.

driver
07-20-2012, 08:05 PM
JMO There no way Carson Palmer if he stays healthy doesn't have his best season ever in the Pro's. There is just too much explosive weapons on offense. a Healthy DMc just just opens the deep passing game even more.

You're asking for minor miracle with that one
. I don't believe he's ever played a 16 game season yet!

DBroncos4life
07-20-2012, 08:08 PM
The Raiders are so loaded with offensive talent they have no WRs with a 1000 seasons. They have 4 TE's with 29 career catches between them and a starting RB that has yet to play more then 13 NFL games in a 16 game season.

DENVERDUI55
07-20-2012, 08:19 PM
Lets see Carson Palmer was 199 completions in 328 attempts for 61% completion percentage 8.4 average per completion. (that number going way up with healthy DMC)

Yes he did throw too many interceptions last season. Again not making an excuse but he did come off his couch cold week 7. (Not knowing the offense, The Players, and never had chance to play with DMC. You expect him to be a lot more comfortable in the offense.

Now the Raiders offense he playing in is a WCO(means a lot more safe passes to running backs and Tight ends . That in itself going to decrease his interception total a lot.

JMO There no way Carson Palmer if he stays healthy doesn't have his best season ever in the Pro's. There is just too much explosive weapons on offense. a Healthy DMc just just opens the deep passing game even more.

We will see. Kyle Orton put up numbers for us too but like Palmer's they were meaningless. I wasn't talking about just last year every year Palmer is near top of QB's in INT's thrown and leads in pick 6's.

lonestar
07-20-2012, 08:53 PM
Lets see Carson Palmer was 199 completions in 328 attempts for 61% completion percentage 8.4 average per completion. (that number going way up with healthy DMC)

Yes he did throw too many interceptions last season. Again not making an excuse but he did come off his couch cold week 7. (Not knowing the offense, The Players, and never had chance to play with DMC. You expect him to be a lot more comfortable in the offense.

Now the Raiders offense he playing in is a WCO(means a lot more safe passes to running backs and Tight ends . That in itself going to decrease his interception total a lot.

JMO There no way Carson Palmer if he stays healthy doesn't have his best season ever in the Pro's. There is just too much explosive weapons on offense. a Healthy DMc just just opens the deep passing game even more.

Which also means his YPA will be way down instead of going for the gusto in each series..

come on admit it your raider HO..

lonestar
07-20-2012, 08:54 PM
You're asking for minor miracle with that one
. I don't believe he's ever played a 16 game season yet!

Hell has he even played in 16 complete games yet?:giggle::giggle:

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 09:06 PM
The Raiders are so loaded with offensive talent they have no WRs with a 1000 seasons. They have 4 TE's with 29 career catches between them and a starting RB that has yet to play more then 13 NFL games in a 16 game season.

You do know where talking about some very young players. 24 year old DHB- very raw player who took some time to get up to NFL game, broke out last year would have easy had 1000 yards , if not for the Qb situation.

Jacoby Ford- Second year wr. Broke into lineup half way through his rookie season(8 games and last year he missed a lot of time with various leg injuries last year(lockout really hurt him as he a player that relies on his blazing speed) He plays 16 games he will put up 1000 easily.

Denarius Moore- a rookie last year and he put up some impressive numbers. The sky the limit how good he will be. Let see if he doesn't crack 1000 yards this year.

Juron Criner this year rookie will be another big time player. He brings something total different than the other wr's.

There is no age to the Rb's corps. DMC 24 taiwan Jones 23, and M goodson 24

Again Your talking about some very young TE david Ausberry, R gordon Brandon Myers


Come tell me after this year how many 1,000 yard receivers the raiders have. Also for a offense I rather have a lot of people catching the football than one or two players. The reason why it make it a lot harder for the defense to defend against that type of offense.

Lets look at the Raiders they have three explosive Rb's(DMC , M goodson and Taiwan Jones) That can score from anywhere whether its a pass or run. FB marcel reece - a unique weapon no other NFl team possess . .

Three of the fastest WR (DHB, J Ford and denarious moore) to go with a very good deep passer(C Palmer)

They added Juron Criner the type of Wr all WCO offense need. A big wr with great size, hands and a go to WR when you need a first down.

Two Young explosive Te's both 6'4 265 one has sub 4.5 speed and the other 4.63. One more the reciever and the other the blocker.

when you have that many weapons on offense and only one ball. Its going to be tough to put up big individual numbers but your talking about a top five offense.

So yes keep your stats (one wr getting over 1000yards), all I care about having a top five offense. Raiders offense when season over in 2012 expect their offense to be ranked higher than the Broncos.

Mogulseeker
07-20-2012, 09:08 PM
Wait, so he's arguing that Palmer will check down to DMC more and that will increase his rating and his YPC?

How dumb is this guy?

Mogulseeker
07-20-2012, 09:10 PM
Who did the Broncos beat last year to get to the playoffs?

That's right. You beat losing teams with devastating injuries or just bad teams.

One of your eight wins came against a winning team and got your asses handed to you when you played elite teams.

This year you play very good teams all year (6 of first 8 games against playoff teams and a MNF game at SD), so the whole "we were 8-8 last year and we got Manning" doesn't help your case.

You obviously completely missed the point. The Broncos were 8-8 without Manning. This is a fact. The Colts were 2-14 without Manning. Ergo, last year Denver > Indy. Denver + Manning = good.

Oh, and this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7zuUIhv8z3M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

broncocalijohn
07-20-2012, 09:23 PM
Smart people can detect dialects...

I like how you take two isolated examples while ignoring your own shortcomings. Another logical fallacy, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that with a California education.

And one example was Boob, a Chiefs fan.

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 09:29 PM
Wait, so he's arguing that Palmer will check down to DMC more and that will increase his rating and his YPC?

How dumb is this guy?
I wouldn't be calling anyone names. You do know what the Raiders have at RB. Everyone of those guys can take a pass , and take it to the house from any where on the field. Here is their Fb doing just that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38R-aP_9PxI


NOw when DMC shredding your defense (like always) in the running game. Now does it make it harder or easier for Raider speed wr to get behind your secondary.

DENVERDUI55
07-20-2012, 09:33 PM
I wouldn't be calling anyone names. You do know what the Raiders have at RB. Everyone of those guys can take a pass , and take it to the house from any where on the field. Here is their Fb doing just that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38R-aP_9PxI

So you are just short of saying this years Raiders is just below the undefeated regular season Patriot Offense? I expect 4800 yds and 40 plus TD's from Palmer the way you talk.

lonestar
07-20-2012, 09:39 PM
Wait, so he's arguing that Palmer will check down to DMC more and that will increase his rating and his YPC?

How dumb is this guy?

Hey he is a raider fan enough said..

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 09:40 PM
So you are just short of saying this years Raiders is just below the undefeated regular season Patriot Offense? I expect 4800 yds and 40 plus TD's from Palmer the way you talk.

All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2012. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2013 or 2014.

Yes I expect C Palmer to put up some big numbers in this offense next season(How much I can't say) Reason being IF Raiders have the number 1 rushing offense, than you can assume it has to have an effect on the passing game somewhat.

Those patriot teams didn't have a running game so it was all pass , all the time. (why C palmer numbers won't approach those numbers)

lonestar
07-20-2012, 09:43 PM
All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2012. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2013 or 2014.

Yes I expect C Palmer to put up some big numbers in this offense next season(How much I can't say) Reason being IF Raiders have the number 1 rushing offense, than you ass-u-me it has to have an effect on the passing game somewhat.

yada yada yada

:thumbs:

KCStud
07-20-2012, 09:50 PM
You obviously completely missed the point. The Broncos were 8-8 without Manning. This is a fact. The Colts were 2-14 without Manning. Ergo, last year Denver > Indy. Denver + Manning = good.

Oh, and this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7zuUIhv8z3M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And how would the 2011 Broncos team do against this years schedule?

Raider9175
07-20-2012, 09:52 PM
a different question. Why do you think Peyton manning chose the Broncos. I think he found someone who was a bigger doofus than him.(John Elway)

razorwire77
07-20-2012, 10:06 PM
All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2012. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2013 or 2014.

Yes I expect C Palmer to put up some big numbers in this offense next season(How much I can't say) Reason being IF Raiders have the number 1 rushing offense, than you can assume it has to have an effect on the passing game somewhat.

Those patriot teams didn't have a running game so it was all pass , all the time. (why C palmer numbers won't approach those numbers)

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif

lonestar
07-20-2012, 10:25 PM
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif

:thumbs:

DBroncos4life
07-20-2012, 10:56 PM
And how would the 2011 Broncos team do against this years schedule?

When would the 2011 Broncos ever face the 2012 schedule?

boltaneer
07-20-2012, 11:06 PM
:rofl: Carson Palmer.

It's not just the fans who see it but more importantly virtually every NFL analyst has said this: He physically cannot throw the ball like he used to before his elbow injury.

He's really only had two great years in the NFL and that was seemingly decades ago.

He was awesome to watch in his prime but sadly his best years are long gone. I think this is his last year as a starter.

KCStud
07-20-2012, 11:29 PM
When would the 2011 Broncos ever face the 2012 schedule?

According to this board, Manning + the 2011 Broncos are so great that it doesn't matter that they beat the heavyweights of the losing team status and are facing several talented teams that can beat the Broncos even with Manning.

The 2011 Broncos took advantage of a soft last place schedule and the fortune of good luck throughout the year aka no major injuries except Dawkins (you guys won the division wether Kuper was hurt or not in week 17).

The Chiefs lost their QB midseason, the Raiders lost their QB early and signed signed a QB on the fly who hasn't played in a long time and had a week to learn the playbook midseason, and Phillip Rivers was uncharacteristically bad last year for the first time since 2007.

I don't buy the Broncos roster as a whole. I don't think the Broncos were as good as their 8-8 record indicated. Defensive line (aside from Dumberville rushing the QB) is overrated and none are excellent run stuffers. And I don't buy the OL either. Clady was bad last year and Franklin is not a good pass protector at all. Broncos have the worst running game in the division with Tebow gone and you have no time to gain chemistry early.

NorCalBronco7
07-21-2012, 01:36 AM
All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2012. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game.

Hilarious!

CEH
07-21-2012, 06:01 AM
And how would the 2011 Broncos team do against this years schedule?

What is your point here? How would the 2011 KC Chiefs do against the 2012 Buffalo Bills? Last time I checked they played the Bills loaded and lost 41-7.

So based on your logic I can conclude they will lose again this year to them correct?

Again what is your effing point?

CEH
07-21-2012, 06:07 AM
All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2003. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2004 or 2005.


All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2004. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2005 or 2006.


All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2005. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2006 or 2007.


All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2006. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2007 or 2008.


All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2007. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2008 or 2009.



All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2008. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2009 or 2010.



All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2009. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2010 or 2011.



All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2010. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2011 or 2012.



All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2011. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2012 or 2013.


All I'm saying is I expect the Raiders offense to be top five in 2012. Eventually this will be the best offense in the game. Will that be 2013 or 2014.


Keep chokin that chickin

DENVERDUI55
07-21-2012, 07:30 AM
According to this board, Manning + the 2011 Broncos are so great that it doesn't matter that they beat the heavyweights of the losing team status and are facing several talented teams that can beat the Broncos even with Manning.

The 2011 Broncos took advantage of a soft last place schedule and the fortune of good luck throughout the year aka no major injuries except Dawkins (you guys won the division wether Kuper was hurt or not in week 17).

The Chiefs lost their QB midseason, the Raiders lost their QB early and signed signed a QB on the fly who hasn't played in a long time and had a week to learn the playbook midseason, and Phillip Rivers was uncharacteristically bad last year for the first time since 2007.

I don't buy the Broncos roster as a whole. I don't think the Broncos were as good as their 8-8 record indicated. Defensive line (aside from Dumberville rushing the QB) is overrated and none are excellent run stuffers. And I don't buy the OL either. Clady was bad last year and Franklin is not a good pass protector at all. Broncos have the worst running game in the division with Tebow gone and you have no time to gain chemistry early.All that and yet somehow Denver managed to make playoffs when it would of been easy to mail it in and suck for Luck. I personally think Elway tried that but the team pulled together.

DENVERDUI55
07-21-2012, 07:35 AM
Who did the Broncos beat last year to get to the playoffs?

That's right. You beat losing teams with devastating injuries or just bad teams.

One of your eight wins came against a winning team and got your asses handed to you when you played elite teams.

This year you play very good teams all year (6 of first 8 games against playoff teams and a MNF game at SD), so the whole "we were 8-8 last year and we got Manning" doesn't help your case.

Who did the NYG beat to make playoffs? That's right using your logic and stat spitting arguments 1 team with winning record.

Bacillus Anthracis
07-21-2012, 08:08 AM
DP: see below

Bacillus Anthracis
07-21-2012, 08:11 AM
You obviously completely missed the point. The Broncos were 8-8 without Manning. This is a fact. The Colts were 2-14 without Manning. Ergo, last year Denver > Indy. Denver + Manning = good.

Appeal to Probability: assuming that something is likely to happen means that it's certain to happen.

P1: No B* is m*
P2: No C* is m*
P3: All B* is m
Therefore: All B is W*

Being much more generous doesn't help your cause either:

P1: m is W
P2: C is not m*
p3: B is not m*
P4: B is m
Therefore: B* is W*

Either way, both are a f'ing mess and it took some thinking to try and put the best face on it.

In logic, syllogistic arguments have terms that are called distributed and undistributed. Each capital letter must be distributed just once and there can only be one distributed letter on the right hand side of the argument. The stars represent distributed letters.

Also, each letter (upper and lower case) must appear twice and only twice within the framework of such an argument. Notice that in the first argument you have three Bs and a single W. The significance of capital and small letters is that small letters represent specific individuals while upper case letters denote general terms.

For example, the statement, "Some bears live in Alaska" when written as a syllogistic premise is some B is a.

In regard to the arguments outlined above, the lower case m is Manning while the upper case letters are Broncos, Colts, and Winning.

Therefore, additional fallacies include the fallcies of exclusive premises, illicit major, and illicit minor.

I'm not sure you understand any fallacies very well and it's clear you haven't the foggiest idea of what the basic syllogistic rules for logic are.

There's a difference between hypocrisy, equivocation, and assertion and there are different fallacies that accompany each of those. I would suggest you actually learn some of these and be able to articulate them before using them in any kind of argument.

You're welcome.

BHamita
07-21-2012, 08:26 AM
David Ausberry was the top high school recruit in the nation at Wr. He had some injuries at USC. The guy is a beast. A 6'4 265 Te with sub 4.5 speed . (watch what he does in this houston Texans type offense- very Te friendly scheme due to scheme alot of te are going to come free) R Gordon anothyer 6'4 265 with 4.63 is going to also going to have a big year.



I'm gonna go through a bunch of your "claims"...but I'll start here. On what site was Ausberry the "top high school recruit in the nation"? (Percy Harvin says hello.)

Rivals? Nope. (5th)
Scout? Nope. (6th)
ESPN? Nope. (6th)

Good try...Ausberry wasn't even USC's top WR in 2006.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-21-2012, 08:35 AM
Am I seriously being questioned for introducing a little logical, fact-based debate into the thread?

Jesus ****ing Christ. The guy can't even get his facts right.

I'm not even arguing against his opine.

Just pointing out a mistake or two.

Jesus ****ing Tebow Christ.

You ****ers.

Xenos
07-21-2012, 09:01 AM
The San Diego Chargers
Last Season: 8-8

Prediction 8-8: It is more likely that Rivers rebounds and plays better than that his poor performance last year was a sign of things to come. Their running game is suspect, and their receivers are new and watered down versions of what was their last year. Even so, Rivers can make it work and I think this will be a year he strings the rest of his team along. The poor special teams and average defense will make for things that even Rivers with good receivers won’t be able to overcome. The easier schedule on the front end means the Chargers might be able to avoid their chronically poor September, but I think on the back end they may have difficulty pulling the big wins out.

Yeah...no. This is incorrect. If the special teams had an abysmal season like 2010 then I can see that, but they were very much improved in 2011. The defense should be better with all the pickups we did in FA and the draft. Plus, you get addition by subtraction with the firing of Manusky.

Tombstone RJ
07-21-2012, 10:40 AM
Appeal to Probability: assuming that something is likely to happen means that it's certain to happen.

P1: No B* is m*
P2: No C* is m*
P3: All B* is m
Therefore: All B is W*

Being much more generous doesn't help your cause either:

P1: m is W
P2: C is not m*
p3: B is not m*
P4: B is m
Therefore: B* is W*

Either way, both are a f'ing mess and it took some thinking to try and put the best face on it.

In logic, syllogistic arguments have terms that are called distributed and undistributed. Each capital letter must be distributed just once and there can only be one distributed letter on the right hand side of the argument. The stars represent distributed letters.

Also, each letter (upper and lower case) must appear twice and only twice within the framework of such an argument. Notice that in the first argument you have three Bs and a single W. The significance of capital and small letters is that small letters represent specific individuals while upper case letters denote general terms.

For example, the statement, "Some bears live in Alaska" when written as a syllogistic premise is some B is a.

In regard to the arguments outlined above, the lower case m is Manning while the upper case letters are Broncos, Colts, and Winning.

Therefore, additional fallacies include the fallcies of exclusive premises, illicit major, and illicit minor.

I'm not sure you understand any fallacies very well and it's clear you haven't the foggiest idea of what the basic syllogistic rules for logic are.

There's a difference between hypocrisy, equivocation, and assertion and there are different fallacies that accompany each of those. I would suggest you actually learn some of these and be able to articulate them before using them in any kind of argument.

You're welcome.

get a life.

Kaylore
07-21-2012, 10:48 AM
Am I seriously being questioned for introducing a little logical, fact-based debate into the thread?

Jesus ****ing Christ. The guy can't even get his facts right.

I'm not even arguing against his opine.

Just pointing out a mistake or two.

Jesus ****ing Tebow Christ.

You ****ers.

Awesome.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/208/795/7982%20-%20animated_gif%20tagme%20thumbs_up.gif?1322507531

DBroncos4life
07-21-2012, 11:18 AM
I like how he keeps pimping this....

"Two Young explosive Te's both 6'4 265 one has sub 4.5 speed and the other 4.63. One more the reciever and the other the blocker".

Denver has TWO young TE's the exact same size and speed as Oaklands but, they are more talented then ours. Hilarious!

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=115213&draftyear=2011&genpos=TE

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=79806&draftyear=2011&genpos=TE

Kaylore
07-21-2012, 11:22 AM
Yeah...no. This is incorrect. If the special teams had an abysmal season like 2010 then I can see that, but they were very much improved in 2011. The defense should be better with all the pickups we did in FA and the draft. Plus, you get addition by subtraction with the firing of Manusky.

You might be improved but you still suck pretty bad.

You guys were tied for sixth in most punt return yards allowed and fourth worst in opponents punt return average.

You guys allowed the second most kickoff return yards in the league last year. You did finish 6th worst in kickoff return average, but when you realize there is only a yard of difference between you and second to worst place, it doesn't look so great anymore.

You were next to worst in punt return yards and sixth worst punting average.

You did climb up to eleventh in your own kick off return yards, and Nick Novak is clearly superior to Nate Kaeding.

So improved? Sure. Much improved? I suppose since 2010 was the worst special teams in the NFL in the last thirty years, then sure. I'll give you that. But just because it seems a lot better than it was, doesn't mean it isn't still bad. You still suck on special teams and that's going to hurt you. It's not epic legendary suck, but you suck.

Mogulseeker
07-21-2012, 11:59 AM
get a life.

I'm actually arguing for probability, and therefore everything he said, while correct, doesn't even matter.

Bacillus Anthracis
07-21-2012, 12:13 PM
I'm actually arguing for probability, and therefore everything he said, while correct, doesn't even matter.

Throughout this thread you've used the term "logical fallacy" quite a few times. So it's not a stretch to gather that validity and soundness seem to matter to you very much, despite committing gross fallacies yourself in the very next sentence.

The use of logic doesn't belong in speculation about sports. That was the secondary point of my post. The use of terms a person doesn't understand but attempts to appear like they do in order to seem smarter than they really are was the primary.

KCStud
07-21-2012, 12:18 PM
Who did the NYG beat to make playoffs? That's right using your logic and stat spitting arguments 1 team with winning record.

Horrible argument. NYG have something surrounding their Manning that you don't have surrounding your Manning: legit talent.

KCStud
07-21-2012, 12:22 PM
How many of those teams had 8-8 records because we beat them? Not saying that Denver was a great team but we beat who we were supposed to and an 8-8 team is only a few breaks away from 12-4.

No. You weren't. You were a few lucky breaks away from being 5-11.

lonestar
07-21-2012, 01:36 PM
Appeal to Probability: assuming that something is likely to happen means that it's certain to happen.

P1: No B* is m*
P2: No C* is m*
P3: All B* is m
Therefore: All B is W*

Being much more generous doesn't help your cause either:

P1: m is W
P2: C is not m*
p3: B is not m*
P4: B is m
Therefore: B* is W*

Either way, both are a f'ing mess and it took some thinking to try and put the best face on it.

In logic, syllogistic arguments have terms that are called distributed and undistributed. Each capital letter must be distributed just once and there can only be one distributed letter on the right hand side of the argument. The stars represent distributed letters.

Also, each letter (upper and lower case) must appear twice and only twice within the framework of such an argument. Notice that in the first argument you have three Bs and a single W. The significance of capital and small letters is that small letters represent specific individuals while upper case letters denote general terms.

For example, the statement, "Some bears live in Alaska" when written as a syllogistic premise is some B is a.

In regard to the arguments outlined above, the lower case m is Manning while the upper case letters are Broncos, Colts, and Winning.

Therefore, additional fallacies include the fallcies of exclusive premises, illicit major, and illicit minor.

I'm not sure you understand any fallacies very well and it's clear you haven't the foggiest idea of what the basic syllogistic rules for logic are.

There's a difference between hypocrisy, equivocation, and assertion and there are different fallacies that accompany each of those. I would suggest you actually learn some of these and be able to articulate them before using them in any kind of argument.

You're welcome.


another nerd talking football..:thumbs:

DENVERDUI55
07-21-2012, 01:50 PM
Horrible argument. NYG have something surrounding their Manning that you don't have surrounding your Manning: legit talent.

What is the difference between them beating one winning team and us? I'm just pointing out your stat arguing is flawed and can be skewed however you want it. NY is obviously better.

DENVERDUI55
07-21-2012, 01:52 PM
No. You weren't. You were a few lucky breaks away from being 5-11.

We were I agree. Giants were an iced your own kicker from missing playoffs. Instead they win the Superbowl.

Mogulseeker
07-21-2012, 02:03 PM
another nerd talking football..:thumbs:

Nothing wrong with nerdiness. I was just trying to talk some smack... And this new dude takes this stuff way too seriously.

CEH
07-21-2012, 03:13 PM
Who did the Broncos beat last year to get to the playoffs?

That's right. You beat losing teams with devastating injuries or just bad teams.

[.

Who did the Denver Broncos beat in the 2011 playoffs. That's right the defending AFC Champion Pittsburgh Steelers

Not sure they qualify as a bad nor losing team.

Care to explain how Pittsburgh is a bad team?

DENVERDUI55
07-21-2012, 03:43 PM
Who did the Denver Broncos beat in the 2011 playoffs. That's right the defending AFC Champion Pittsburgh Steelers

Not sure they qualify as a bad nor losing team.

Care to explain how Pittsburgh is a bad team?

If he does it will be with stats.

Kaylore
07-21-2012, 03:55 PM
If he does it will be with stats.

He'll say they were 9-7 two years ago. He's into saying what you were two seasons ago.

lonestar
07-21-2012, 04:17 PM
Nothing wrong with nerdiness. I was just trying to talk some smack... And this new dude takes this stuff way too seriously.

I guessed that from your responses..:thumbs:

The nerd should mix in a bit of football lingo.. atleast pretend to know something about the game..