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DBroncos4life
07-21-2012, 05:21 PM
He'll say they were 9-7 two years ago. He's into saying what you were two seasons ago.

But remember the past doesn't matter....

KCStud
07-21-2012, 06:46 PM
What is the difference between them beating one winning team and us? I'm just pointing out your stat arguing is flawed and can be skewed however you want it. NY is obviously better.

NY dealt with a lot of injuries. And they won the SB by beating the best teams 4 games in a row. They deserve their credit.

KCStud
07-21-2012, 06:51 PM
Who did the Denver Broncos beat in the 2011 playoffs. That's right the defending AFC Champion Pittsburgh Steelers

Not sure they qualify as a bad nor losing team.

Care to explain how Pittsburgh is a bad team?

You beat a battered Steelers team at home in a miracle. Congrats.

What happened the next week? Care to tell?

You're playing those caliber of teams almost every week this year. Wonder how many "miracles" you'll need this time.

And don't even bring up Manning. He alone won't make up the difference of 40+ points against that team.

And you guys talk like your SB contenders? You aren't even a top 3 team in the weaker conference. Doubt you guys go to the SB, especially this year.

CEH
07-21-2012, 07:08 PM
You beat a battered Steelers team at home in a miracle. Congrats.

What happened the next week? Care to tell?

You're playing those caliber of teams almost every week this year. Wonder how many "miracles" you'll need this time.

And don't even bring up Manning. He alone won't make up the difference of 40+ points against that team.

And you guys talk like your SB contenders? You aren't even a top 3 team in the weaker conference. Doubt you guys go to the SB, especially this year.

You have nothing we beat that caliber of team last year and we can do it again
You lost to bu at home 41-7 with a full squad
A playoff win is a playoff win ask Dallas cowboys
Trying to marginalized our win is a weak argument
Vegas doesn't ignore mannings presence but you do cause you have nothing but a team that got boat raced at home by a team that hasn't been to the super bowl in but once in the last 25 years

Manning a raven killer btw

I told you last year before preseason Kc was going be bit by the injury bug snd this year I'm telling you Denver wins the divisioion Kc will be out by week 12 due to cassell

DENVERDUI55
07-22-2012, 09:38 AM
NY dealt with a lot of injuries. And they won the SB by beating the best teams 4 games in a row. They deserve their credit.

They do but back to showing your dumb take is flawed. You claimed Denver didn't beat anyone good well NY didn't til playoffs either and lucked out into getting into the playoffs.

Tombstone RJ
07-22-2012, 10:02 AM
You beat a battered Steelers team at home in a miracle. Congrats.

What happened the next week? Care to tell?

You're playing those caliber of teams almost every week this year. Wonder how many "miracles" you'll need this time.

And don't even bring up Manning. He alone won't make up the difference of 40+ points against that team.

And you guys talk like your SB contenders? You aren't even a top 3 team in the weaker conference. Doubt you guys go to the SB, especially this year.

I guess we will just have to wait and see how this coming season goes and which team is the best in the AFCW.

400HZ
07-22-2012, 01:56 PM
Nice write up Kaylore.

I haven't followed the NFL sufficiently this off season to offer much of an informed opinion, but I've kept up with my beloved Chargers and Denver was in the news so much this spring that they were unavoidable.

Starting with Denver - the rightful off season favorite in my opinion - I want to say they look like a 12-4 team with Peyton Manning, a good offensive line, and a decent defense. Seeing their schedule makes me second guess that, though. And looking over their roster, I think you have to be very concerned about their depth on defense. They look thin on the defensive line and look to be counting on getting a lot from some veterans with recent health problems. Now Dumervil has a potentially serious issue. Same with DJ Williams at linebacker. I'm not really familiar with what they have in the secondary right now, but I know age was a concern last season, and only one draft pick spent there. Peyton Manning does make his defense look a lot better though with the pressure he puts on the opposing team to score points. I'm worried about a situation where he scores some early touchdowns and Miller and Dumervil just spend the rest of the afternoon teeing off.

That schedule is brutal though, especially early on when Manning will be re-adjusting to the game. Looks like 10-6 at best to me, but with some probable play off juice if the vets stay reasonably healthy.

As for San Diego, the popular national sentiment seems to be that losing Vincent Jackson defined their off season, but I disagree. VJ made big, game-changing plays, but he was never Rivers' go-to guy. That distinction has always belonged to Antonio Gates, and Gates should enter this season healthy for the first time since 2007. After Gates, its Malcolm Floyd, who has shown two things: 1) He can put up big numbers in this offense when he's healthy, and 2) he can't stay healthy. That's a concern, and that's why I was so thrilled with adding Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal. Add in Vincent Brown hopefully showing second-year improvement, and I think this group is definitely good enough for Rivers to be successful. Just as important, its a deep group.

On defense, adding Kendall Reyes (who I love) and Abrayo Franklin to the mix of youngsters up front substantially improves that group. Donald Butler is a really good inside linebacker, but his inside partner will probably be below average. The outside linebacker position should be the best its been since the MerriRoid days with Jarrett Johnson and Melvin Ingram replacing some ineffectual players who were on the field way too much last season. The Chargers main concern on defense has to be in the secondary, and that concern is well-founded. All three of our cornerbacks sucked hard last year, and the safety spot opposite Weddle will be filled by a journeyman. I'm hoping our new defensive coordinator, John Pagano, is talented enough to cover this up.

To me, the Chargers are good enough to finish 10-6 and bad enough to hit 8-8.

lonestar
07-22-2012, 02:01 PM
Nice write up Kaylore.

I haven't followed the NFL sufficiently this off season to offer much of an informed opinion, but I've kept up with my beloved Chargers and Denver was in the news so much this spring that they were unavoidable.

Starting with Denver - the rightful off season favorite in my opinion - I want to say they look like a 12-4 team with Peyton Manning, a good offensive line, and a decent defense. Seeing their schedule makes me second guess that, though. And looking over their roster, I think you have to be very concerned about their depth on defense. They look thin on the defensive line and look to be counting on getting a lot from some veterans with recent health problems. Now Dumervil has a potentially serious issue. Same with DJ Williams at linebacker. I'm not really familiar with what they have in the secondary right now, but I know age was a concern last season, and only one draft pick spent there. Peyton Manning does make his defense look a lot better though with the pressure he puts on the opposing team to score points. I'm worried about a situation where he scores some early touchdowns and Miller and Dumervil just spend the rest of the afternoon teeing off.

That schedule is brutal though, especially early on when Manning will be re-adjusting to the game. Looks like 10-6 at best to me, but with some probable play off juice if the vets stay reasonably healthy.

As for San Diego, the popular national sentiment seems to be that losing Vincent Jackson defined their off season, but I disagree. VJ made big, game-changing plays, but he was never Rivers' go-to guy. That distinction has always belonged to Antonio Gates, and Gates should enter this season healthy for the first time since 2007. After Gates, its Malcolm Floyd, who has shown two things: 1) He can put up big numbers in this offense when he's healthy, and 2) he can't stay healthy. That's a concern, and that's why I was so thrilled with adding Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal. Add in Vincent Brown hopefully showing second-year improvement, and I think this group is definitely good enough for Rivers to be successful. Just as important, its a deep group.

On defense, adding Kendall Reyes (who I love) and Abrayo Franklin to the mix of youngsters up front substantially improves that group. Donald Butler is a really good inside linebacker, but his inside partner will probably be below average. The outside linebacker position should be the best its been since the MerriRoid days with Jarrett Johnson and Melvin Ingram replacing some ineffectual players who were on the field way too much last season. The Chargers main concern on defense has to be in the secondary, and that concern is well-founded. All three of our cornerbacks sucked hard last year, and the safety spot opposite Weddle will be filled by a journeyman. I'm hoping our new defensive coordinator, John Pagano, is talented enough to cover this up.

To me, the Chargers are good enough to finish 10-6 and bad enough to hit 8-8.

Then you also have the Norv factor so subtract 2 games you should win but do not..

KCStud
07-22-2012, 02:48 PM
Nice write up Kaylore.

I haven't followed the NFL sufficiently this off season to offer much of an informed opinion, but I've kept up with my beloved Chargers and Denver was in the news so much this spring that they were unavoidable.

Starting with Denver - the rightful off season favorite in my opinion - I want to say they look like a 12-4 team with Peyton Manning, a good offensive line, and a decent defense. Seeing their schedule makes me second guess that, though. And looking over their roster, I think you have to be very concerned about their depth on defense. They look thin on the defensive line and look to be counting on getting a lot from some veterans with recent health problems. Now Dumervil has a potentially serious issue. Same with DJ Williams at linebacker. I'm not really familiar with what they have in the secondary right now, but I know age was a concern last season, and only one draft pick spent there. Peyton Manning does make his defense look a lot better though with the pressure he puts on the opposing team to score points. I'm worried about a situation where he scores some early touchdowns and Miller and Dumervil just spend the rest of the afternoon teeing off.

That schedule is brutal though, especially early on when Manning will be re-adjusting to the game. Looks like 10-6 at best to me, but with some probable play off juice if the vets stay reasonably healthy.

As for San Diego, the popular national sentiment seems to be that losing Vincent Jackson defined their off season, but I disagree. VJ made big, game-changing plays, but he was never Rivers' go-to guy. That distinction has always belonged to Antonio Gates, and Gates should enter this season healthy for the first time since 2007. After Gates, its Malcolm Floyd, who has shown two things: 1) He can put up big numbers in this offense when he's healthy, and 2) he can't stay healthy. That's a concern, and that's why I was so thrilled with adding Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal. Add in Vincent Brown hopefully showing second-year improvement, and I think this group is definitely good enough for Rivers to be successful. Just as important, its a deep group.

On defense, adding Kendall Reyes (who I love) and Abrayo Franklin to the mix of youngsters up front substantially improves that group. Donald Butler is a really good inside linebacker, but his inside partner will probably be below average. The outside linebacker position should be the best its been since the MerriRoid days with Jarrett Johnson and Melvin Ingram replacing some ineffectual players who were on the field way too much last season. The Chargers main concern on defense has to be in the secondary, and that concern is well-founded. All three of our cornerbacks sucked hard last year, and the safety spot opposite Weddle will be filled by a journeyman. I'm hoping our new defensive coordinator, John Pagano, is talented enough to cover this up.

To me, the Chargers are good enough to finish 10-6 and bad enough to hit 8-8.

I think the Chargers will win the division this year. Their defense has playmakers at every level and the offense looks solid, especially with Rivers.
Rivers has made average receivers look good, and they added Meachem and Royal to replace Vincent Jackson. I think those are big additions.

The only real concern (besides Norv) is the offensive line. Losing McNeil and Dieman doesn't looks so good with all the good pass rushers in the division.

JPPT1974
07-22-2012, 02:58 PM
But remember the past doesn't matter....

Yeah as it is time to move on. As now it is the Manning era.

Kaylore
07-22-2012, 05:46 PM
Nice write up Kaylore.

I haven't followed the NFL sufficiently this off season to offer much of an informed opinion, but I've kept up with my beloved Chargers and Denver was in the news so much this spring that they were unavoidable.

Starting with Denver - the rightful off season favorite in my opinion - I want to say they look like a 12-4 team with Peyton Manning, a good offensive line, and a decent defense. Seeing their schedule makes me second guess that, though. And looking over their roster, I think you have to be very concerned about their depth on defense. They look thin on the defensive line and look to be counting on getting a lot from some veterans with recent health problems. Now Dumervil has a potentially serious issue. Same with DJ Williams at linebacker. I'm not really familiar with what they have in the secondary right now, but I know age was a concern last season, and only one draft pick spent there. Peyton Manning does make his defense look a lot better though with the pressure he puts on the opposing team to score points. I'm worried about a situation where he scores some early touchdowns and Miller and Dumervil just spend the rest of the afternoon teeing off.

That schedule is brutal though, especially early on when Manning will be re-adjusting to the game. Looks like 10-6 at best to me, but with some probable play off juice if the vets stay reasonably healthy.

As for San Diego, the popular national sentiment seems to be that losing Vincent Jackson defined their off season, but I disagree. VJ made big, game-changing plays, but he was never Rivers' go-to guy. That distinction has always belonged to Antonio Gates, and Gates should enter this season healthy for the first time since 2007. After Gates, its Malcolm Floyd, who has shown two things: 1) He can put up big numbers in this offense when he's healthy, and 2) he can't stay healthy. That's a concern, and that's why I was so thrilled with adding Robert Meachem and Eddie Royal. Add in Vincent Brown hopefully showing second-year improvement, and I think this group is definitely good enough for Rivers to be successful. Just as important, its a deep group.

On defense, adding Kendall Reyes (who I love) and Abrayo Franklin to the mix of youngsters up front substantially improves that group. Donald Butler is a really good inside linebacker, but his inside partner will probably be below average. The outside linebacker position should be the best its been since the MerriRoid days with Jarrett Johnson and Melvin Ingram replacing some ineffectual players who were on the field way too much last season. The Chargers main concern on defense has to be in the secondary, and that concern is well-founded. All three of our cornerbacks sucked hard last year, and the safety spot opposite Weddle will be filled by a journeyman. I'm hoping our new defensive coordinator, John Pagano, is talented enough to cover this up.

To me, the Chargers are good enough to finish 10-6 and bad enough to hit 8-8.

Thanks. Honestly If it weren't for Norv coming back, I'd probably be higher on the Chargers. Norv typically has early season swoons to teams they have no business losing against. Even on the Raiders that was how he rolled. You guys barely stole some early season success last season. Rivers won't be hurt this year, which will help. MAYBE Meachem will be able to be Vincent Jackson-esque, but trust me when I tell you Royal is nothing but a tease. He'll give you guys one big play in a game and then disappear for games at a time.

KCStud
07-22-2012, 05:47 PM
They do but back to showing your dumb take is flawed. You claimed Denver didn't beat anyone good well NY didn't til playoffs either and lucked out into getting into the playoffs.

NYG have 2 SB's in the last 5 years. When you do that you can brag all you want.

DENVERDUI55
07-22-2012, 06:14 PM
NYG have 2 SB's in the last 5 years. When you do that you can brag all you want.

Deflecting again. It's not that deep. How many good teams did the NYG beat last year in regular season?

KCStud
07-22-2012, 06:16 PM
Deflecting again. It's not that deep. How many good teams did the NYG beat last year in regular season?

Why does that matter? They proved they weren't frauds when they beat 4 playoff teams in a row and won the SB, not get blown out by 30+ points like you.

DENVERDUI55
07-22-2012, 06:18 PM
Why does that matter? They proved they weren't frauds when they beat 4 playoff teams in a row and won the SB, not get blown out by 30+ points like you.

Because you claim that Denver didn't beat anyone good. Well neither did NY. Just keep spinning your awful takes.

KCStud
07-22-2012, 06:22 PM
Because you claim that Denver didn't beat anyone good. Well neither did NY. Just keep spinning your awful takes.

You are the only moron who would try to say the SB champs are frauds. Congrats Hilarious!

DENVERDUI55
07-22-2012, 06:25 PM
You are the only moron who would try to say the SB champs are frauds. Congrats Hilarious!

Never said that once. I'm saying that your argument that you didn't beat anyone good is a joke like your stat arguing takes are.

KCStud
07-22-2012, 06:32 PM
Never said that once. I'm saying that your argument that you didn't beat anyone good is a joke like your stat arguing takes are.

The Giants did beat good teams, like I said. You just try to twist it to the regular season to help your point as if that post season run didn't matter. Fail.

And the Giants were 5-3 for the season (playoffs included) against playoff teams. Try turning that around sloppy.

KCStud
07-22-2012, 07:19 PM
DUI55, it appears you're trying to compare the NYG and DEN. Let me ask you....how did both teams do against the one common opponent (Patriots)?

Mogulseeker
07-22-2012, 07:44 PM
DUI55, it appears you're trying to compare the NYG and DEN. Let me ask you....how did both teams do against the one common opponent (Patriots)?

Historically? Pretty goo, actually.

The Broncos are 25-17 all-time against New England.

We're 6-2 against Brady.

DENVERDUI55
07-22-2012, 07:51 PM
DUI55, it appears you're trying to compare the NYG and DEN. Let me ask you....how did both teams do against the one common opponent (Patriots)?

You make it so easy. Again your too stupid to actually comprehend what I was saying even though I've pointed it out several times. I was not comparing the caliber of a team that NYG and DEN are. I'm destroying your stupid stat arguing and cherry picked arguments. Lets go back to your original post.

One of your eight wins came against a winning team and got your asses handed to you when you played elite teams.


No mention of playoffs right initially? Well guess what the SB champs only had one win against a winning team. Regular season opponents mean nothing once playoffs start. You are so easy to own.

KCStud
07-22-2012, 08:06 PM
You make it so easy. Again your too stupid to actually comprehend what I was saying even though I've pointed it out several times. I was not comparing the caliber of a team that NYG and DEN are. I'm destroying your stupid stat arguing and cherry picked arguments. Lets go back to your original post.



No mention of playoffs right initially? Well guess what the SB champs only had one win against a winning team. Regular season opponents mean nothing once playoffs start. You are so easy to own.

And in that quote there was no mention of simply the regular season. The Giants beat 4 winning teams in a row to win the SB you dumbass. Regular season opponents mean everything because without beating them you don't get into the playoffs.

God you're stupid.

lonestar
07-22-2012, 09:47 PM
And in that quote there was no mention of simply the regular season. The Giants beat 4 winning teams in a row to win the SB you dumbass. Regular season opponents mean everything because without beating them you don't get into the playoffs.

God you're stupid.

they were average during the regular season 9-7 backed into the playoffs with a loss to the cowgirls were tha last team to qualify and then got on a roll in the play offs.

That happens a lot..

not sure why your even arguing about them..

1 Sep 11 NYG 14 @ WAS 28 Final 80,121 Rex Grossman
305 Yds (WAS) Tim Hightower
72 Yds (WAS) Hakeem Nicks
122 Yds (NYG)
2 Sep 19 STL 16 @ NYG 28 Final 78,290 Sam Bradford
331 Yds (STL) Ahmad Bradshaw
59 Yds (NYG) Danario Alexander
122 Yds (STL)
3 Sep 25 NYG 29 @ PHI 16 Final 69,144 Eli Manning
254 Yds (NYG) LeSean McCoy
128 Yds (PHI) Victor Cruz
110 Yds (NYG)
4 Oct 02 NYG 31 @ ARI 27 Final 60,496 Eli Manning
321 Yds (NYG) Beanie Wells
138 Yds (ARI) Hakeem Nicks
162 Yds (NYG)
5 Oct 09 SEA 36 @ NYG 25 Final 78,650 Eli Manning
420 Yds (NYG) Marshawn Lynch
98 Yds (SEA) Victor Cruz
161 Yds (NYG)
6 Oct 16 BUF 24 @ NYG 27 Final 79,243 Eli Manning
292 Yds (NYG) Fred Jackson
121 Yds (BUF) Hakeem Nicks
96 Yds (NYG)
7 Bye
8 Oct 30 MIA 17 @ NYG 20 Final 79,302 Eli Manning
349 Yds (NYG) Reggie Bush
103 Yds (MIA) Victor Cruz
99 Yds (NYG)
9 Nov 06 NYG 24 @ NE 20 Final 68,756 Tom Brady
342 Yds (NE) Brandon Jacobs
72 Yds (NYG) Wes Welker
136 Yds (NE)
10 Nov 13 NYG 20 @ SF 27 Final 69,732 Eli Manning
311 Yds (NYG) Brandon Jacobs
55 Yds (NYG) Victor Cruz
84 Yds (NYG)
11 Nov 20 PHI 17 @ NYG 10 Final 79,743 Eli Manning
264 Yds (NYG) LeSean McCoy
113 Yds (PHI) Victor Cruz
128 Yds (NYG)
12 Nov 28 NYG 24 @ NO 49 Final 73,068 Eli Manning
406 Yds (NYG) Mark Ingram
80 Yds (NO) Victor Cruz
157 Yds (NYG)
13 Dec 04 GB 38 @ NYG 35 Final 80,634 Aaron Rodgers
369 Yds (GB) Brandon Jacobs
59 Yds (NYG) Victor Cruz
119 Yds (NYG)
14 Dec 11 NYG 37 @ DAL 34 Final 95,952 Eli Manning
400 Yds (NYG) Felix Jones
106 Yds (DAL) Hakeem Nicks
163 Yds (NYG)
15 Dec 18 WAS 23 @ NYG 10 Final 78,861 Eli Manning
257 Yds (NYG) Ahmad Bradshaw
58 Yds (NYG) Jabar Gaffney
85 Yds (WAS)
16 Dec 24 NYG 29 @ NYJ 14 Final 79,088 Mark Sanchez
258 Yds (NYJ) Shonn Greene
58 Yds (NYJ) Victor Cruz
164 Yds (NYG)
17 Jan 01 DAL 14 @ NYG 31 Final 81,077 Eli Manning
346 Yds (NYG) Ahmad Bradshaw
57 Yds (NYG) Victor Cruz
178 Yds (NYG)

I call that pretty pathetic..

400HZ
07-23-2012, 12:01 PM
Thanks. Honestly If it weren't for Norv coming back, I'd probably be higher on the Chargers. Norv typically has early season swoons to teams they have no business losing against. Even on the Raiders that was how he rolled. You guys barely stole some early season success last season. Rivers won't be hurt this year, which will help. MAYBE Meachem will be able to be Vincent Jackson-esque, but trust me when I tell you Royal is nothing but a tease. He'll give you guys one big play in a game and then disappear for games at a time.

I'm really excited for Royal simply because he's a type of receiver that we haven't had in a long time. Having the big guys who can wrestle the ball away downfield is nice, but having a quicker guy who can get separation and YAC is going to be something new. I don't think he'll be a featured player or put up huge numbers, but oftentimes its the small things that are the difference between a W and L. And if (when) Floyd gets hurt, I think he can help shoulder the load for a few games.

Mecheam will probably be the guy with the numbers. For what Norval does on offense, he's a perfect fit. It's not a square peg/round hole/Dan Snyder type signing.

Tombstone RJ
07-23-2012, 12:09 PM
And in that quote there was no mention of simply the regular season. The Giants beat 4 winning teams in a row to win the SB you dumbass. Regular season opponents mean everything because without beating them you don't get into the playoffs.

God you're stupid.

again, you've been hanged by your own argument. You are the biggest tard I've ever seen on the Omane and believe me, there's been many an idiot post on this site.

Again and again, once someone proves you completely wrong, you change the parameters.

oubronco
07-23-2012, 02:38 PM
The Oakland Raiders announced they have traded speedy wide receiver Louis Murphy to the Carolina Panthers in exchange for an undisclosed draft pick.

Hilarious! Can't fix stupid

Kaylore
07-23-2012, 02:58 PM
Louis Murphy is gone? Will this set back the arrival of the soon-to-be 2009 Patriots-level proliferation of offense from the Raiders?

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/spn_gasp-gif.gif?w=320

oubronco
07-23-2012, 03:40 PM
Raider9175

"the raiders offense will be top 3 now"

KCStud
07-23-2012, 06:59 PM
again, you've been hanged by your own argument. You are the biggest tard I've ever seen on the Omane and believe me, there's been many an idiot post on this site.

Again and again, once someone proves you completely wrong, you change the parameters.

Tombstone, just sit this play out. You aren't good enough.

This board is awesome! The Giants are overrated because they won the Super Bowl!!!!!:rofl:

Tombstone RJ
07-23-2012, 07:32 PM
Tombstone, just sit this play out. You aren't good enough.

This board is awesome! The Giants are overrated because they won the Super Bowl!!!!!:rofl:

You're correct, I can't keep up with your stupidity at all. Congrats, you win the idiot of the year award.

400HZ
07-23-2012, 09:59 PM
Tombstone, just sit this play out. You aren't good enough.

This board is awesome! The Giants are overrated because they won the Super Bowl!!!!!:rofl:

I can't wait too see Dontari Poe out there with Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey. Three of the biggest busts in recent memory all getting bowled over at once. It will be unforgettable.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-23-2012, 10:40 PM
Uh, Jackson and Dorsey were two of the top ranked DEs against the run last year.

MagicHef
07-24-2012, 02:00 PM
Uh, Jackson and Dorsey were two of the top ranked DEs against the run last year.

And together they accumulated 1 sack, 3 QB hits, and 6 hurries on 469 pass rushing snaps.

Bacillus Anthracis
07-24-2012, 02:23 PM
The Oakland Raiders announced they have traded speedy wide receiver Louis Murphy to the Carolina Panthers in exchange for an undisclosed draft pick.

Hilarious! Can't fix stupid

Murphy was likely going to get cut in camp so they got what they could for him. A 7th round draft pick is pretty low for the guy but maybe the plan is to trade up to the 6th or whatever. It also saves Oakland money against the cap.

The on the field impact for this year from this deal is nil.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-24-2012, 02:39 PM
And together they accumulated 1 sack, 3 QB hits, and 6 hurries on 469 pass rushing snaps.

They are lousy pass rushers and come out of the game on third down.

DBroncos4life
07-24-2012, 02:45 PM
They are lousy pass rushers and come out of the game on third down.

Don't most teams find solid pass rushers in the top of the first round and wait to find run stoppers later?

MagicHef
07-24-2012, 02:46 PM
They are lousy pass rushers and come out of the game on third down.

Someone should tell Crennel. They're spending almost half their snaps rushing the passer.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-24-2012, 02:48 PM
Someone should tell Crennel. They're spending almost half their snaps rushing the passer.

Sometimes defenses pass on first and second down, dumbass.

They come out of the game in passing situations.

MagicHef
07-24-2012, 03:05 PM
Sometimes defenses pass on first and second down, dumbass.

They come out of the game in passing situations.

Oh, do they, sometimes? I guess I've never seen a defense pass.

It's too bad that they're both so horrible at half their job. Maybe they shouldn't be out there in the base package, but only in a run defense package.

Irish Stout
07-24-2012, 03:41 PM
The Giants are overrated because they won the Super Bowl!!!!!:rofl:

Not one person said this. Not one. If anything, the opposite has been argued by people here... oh except for you. You've been implying that 8-8 teams in the regular season who don't beat any good teams are actually ****ty teams.

Why do you keep putting yourself up on the pedestal of group moron?

Irish Stout
07-24-2012, 03:47 PM
Kaylore - thanks for the write up! I always appreciate the efforts of original thought and the effort to actually put it up for all of the world to read. I enjoyed it.

Kaylore
07-24-2012, 03:55 PM
Kaylore - thanks for the write up! I always appreciate the efforts of original thought and the effort to actually put it up for all of the world to read. I enjoyed it.

Honestly, we hadn't talked about football in awhile. It thought it would be a good change of pace for the board in the dead of June/July when there is no football to talk about. We had all four teams fans weighing in which was awesome and the thread went 12 pages. I also wanted to think out my predictions. The schedule all teams play this year is so bad, we could see another finish like last year with three teams all within a game of each other. I think it won't be a three way tie like last year, but I felt it would be close again.

KCStud
07-24-2012, 04:51 PM
Oh, do they, sometimes? I guess I've never seen a defense pass.

It's too bad that they're both so horrible at half their job. Maybe they shouldn't be out there in the base package, but only in a run defense package.

No it's not half their job. Their first priority is stop the run. Second is to occupy blockers to the OLB's can get sacks.

At least Jackson and Dorsey don't completely suck like Robert Ayers. He can't rush the passer or stop the run.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-24-2012, 05:10 PM
Oh, do they, sometimes? I guess I've never seen a defense pass.

It's too bad that they're both so horrible at half their job. Maybe they shouldn't be out there in the base package, but only in a run defense package.

We'll, they're good against the run, our defense was good against the run, and we had a good defense, two years in a row now.

I'm not sure what the **** your point is. They are good at their jobs. They are not really asked to be pass rushers.

Raider9175
07-24-2012, 06:49 PM
The Oakland Raiders announced they have traded speedy wide receiver Louis Murphy to the Carolina Panthers in exchange for an undisclosed draft pick.

Hilarious! Can't fix stupid

Reggie Mckenzie brought in some nice looking Kids at WR. That position is one of the strongest on the roster.

Top six wr will look like this. 1. D Moore 2 DHB 3 Jacoby Ford 4 Juron Criner( watch this kid) 5 Rod Streater 6 will be a battle between 6'3 210 Ed Mcgee , 6'2 200 Duke Calhoun and Derek carrier 6'4 238 .

boltaneer
07-24-2012, 06:59 PM
Reggie Mckenzie brought in some nice looking Kids at WR. That position is one of the strongest on the roster.

Top six wr will look like this. 1. D Moore 2 DHB 3 Jacoby Ford 4 Juron Criner( watch this kid) 5 Rod Streater 6 will be a battle between 6'3 210 Ed Mcgee , 6'2 200 Duke Calhoun and Derek carrier 6'4 238 .

Potential is not a strength. If what you claim is true, that WR is one of the strongest positions on the roster, your roster is in big trouble.

Raider9175
07-24-2012, 07:00 PM
Raider9175

"the raiders offense will be top 3 now"

There was a good chance he wasn't going to make the roster anyway.(better to get something for him now, than lose him for nothing next season)

The Big addition to the offense will be Juron Criner 6'3 224 . He brings something totally different than their other top three Wr possess. ( big target with great hands who know how to use his body. Will be lethal in the redzone. (where Raiders struggled.


Raiders love Rod Streater 6'3 200 very reliable hands and has 4.37 speed.

The last wr spot I'm rooting for Derek Criner 6'4 238 4.51. I think the sky the limit for this guy. If Horse tooth (Elway) smart he should be watching which Raider wr eventually get cut. He could upgrade his wr corps.

Raider9175
07-24-2012, 07:06 PM
Potential is not a strength. If what you claim is true, that WR is one of the strongest positions on the roster, your roster is in big trouble.

We shall see< Smiling> . You will find out the hard way what Ron Wolfe knows.(recommended Mckenzie to the Raiders) Reggie MCkenzie knows who can play and who can't. He did a great job adding even more talent to an emerging Wr corps. That position is loaded.

errand
07-24-2012, 07:16 PM
Sometimes defenses pass on first and second down, dumbass.

They come out of the game in passing situations.

Well given most teams throw on 3rd downs, and some teams throw on 1st and 2nd down, then shouldn't they sit on the first three downs?

vancejohnson82
07-24-2012, 08:16 PM
oh wow....a Raiders fan talking about a high ceiling and speed....

shocking

MagicHef
07-24-2012, 08:56 PM
We'll, they're good against the run, our defense was good against the run, and we had a good defense, two years in a row now.

I'm not sure what the **** your point is. They are good at their jobs. They are not really asked to be pass rushers.

My point is that if you want a one dimensional run stopper, you trade a 5th for him (Bunkley), grab him as a UDFA (Mike Devito), or something like that. You don't draft him with the #3 or #5 pick.

Look at the top 7 run defending 3-4 DEs from last year. 4 of them are also awesome at rushing the passer. Of the 3 that aren't, one was a UDFA and the other 2 are top five picks. Guess who those 2 are.

I guess my point is that 400HZ's assesment of Dorsey and Jackson as busts isn't far from reality.

KCStud
07-24-2012, 10:02 PM
My point is that if you want a one dimensional run stopper, you trade a 5th for him (Bunkley), grab him as a UDFA (Mike Devito), or something like that. You don't draft him with the #3 or #5 pick.

Look at the top 7 run defending 3-4 DEs from last year. 4 of them are also awesome at rushing the passer. Of the 3 that aren't, one was a UDFA and the other 2 are top five picks. Guess who those 2 are.

I guess my point is that 400HZ's assesment of Dorsey and Jackson as busts isn't far from reality.

Pioli didn't draft Dorsey. And I think Allen Bailey is the better than both of them. He's gonna be a great player.

DBroncos4life
07-24-2012, 10:11 PM
My point is that if you want a one dimensional run stopper, you trade a 5th for him (Bunkley), grab him as a UDFA (Mike Devito), or something like that. You don't draft him with the #3 or #5 pick.

Look at the top 7 run defending 3-4 DEs from last year. 4 of them are also awesome at rushing the passer. Of the 3 that aren't, one was a UDFA and the other 2 are top five picks. Guess who those 2 are.

I guess my point is that 400HZ's assesment of Dorsey and Jackson as busts isn't far from reality.

Pioli didn't draft Dorsey. And I think Allen Bailey is the better than both of them. He's gonna be a great player.

LOL what???

boltaneer
07-24-2012, 10:36 PM
We shall see< Smiling> . You will find out the hard way what Ron Wolfe knows.(recommended Mckenzie to the Raiders) Reggie MCkenzie knows who can play and who can't. He did a great job adding even more talent to an emerging Wr corps. That position is loaded.

Sure, you can make a case that there's talent there.

It's all unproven though. It's ridiculous to say this is a position of strength until they prove it.

lonestar
07-24-2012, 10:48 PM
Sure, you can make a case that there's talent there.

It's all unproven though. It's ridiculous to say this is a position of strength until they prove it.

raiderjoe frankly lives a delusional life..
if they are fast they must be great players..

 

400HZ
07-24-2012, 11:31 PM
Uh, Jackson and Dorsey were two of the top ranked DEs against the run last year.

Nice rationalizing. And to be fair, Jackson's advertised ceiling wasn't much higher than where he's at now. At least he'll have a long if totally unspectacular career as a rotational player. Poe on the other hand might get cut during rookie mini camp.

Raider9175
07-25-2012, 04:31 AM
Sure, you can make a case that there's talent there.

It's all unproven though. It's ridiculous to say this is a position of strength until they prove it.

Don't look now but that's another Raider Wr running past the Chargers secondary. C Palmer and Raiders WR corp owned the Chargers secondary. (that was a one dimensional offense)

YEs the Raiders defense was even more brutal than the Chargers D the last game of the season. (why they brought in a new defensive staff)

The fact is with a healthy Raiders running game the Chargers don't win that game. First of all Raiders don't settle for field goals instead of scoring touchdowns. Second It makes it even easier(if that's possible against Chargers secondary that was simply over matched) to get behind a secondary when DMC killing them all day in the running game. Third, with the addition of Wr Juron criner and return of DMC- the Raiders are one of the top red zone teams.

As a Charger fan you shouldn't even open your mouth about the Raiders Wr corp, instead you should worry more about improving that porous secondary.

Raider9175
07-25-2012, 04:48 AM
raiderjoe frankly lives a delusional life..
if they are fast they must be great players..

 
Denarius Moore , DHb and Jacoby Ford all might be incredible young but everyone of those widereceiver are proven players. Not to mention emerging big time players that can score from anywhere when ever they touch it.

The Lockout last year had the most effect on one of the fastest players in the game(Jacoby ford- had a variety of leg injuries that can be attributed to no offseason workouts. A healthy J ford in 2011 would have put up some big numbers.


NOw the fact is Juron Criner is going to be pushing those three for playing time. He's that talented and he brings something to table all WCO offense must have. A reliable big WR option with great hands who can get the key cat5ches when you need that first down.( This guy isn't a speed threat by any means but he a physical presence who going to do just as much damage).

Witgh the talent Raiders have on offense I expect this Raider offense to be a top five offense in 2012. Eventually (next season or the year after) this should be the number 1 offense in football. It has that much talent and all the key parts are incredible young.

MagicHef
07-25-2012, 07:00 AM
No it's not half their job. Their first priority is stop the run. Second is to occupy blockers to the OLB's can get sacks.

At least Jackson and Dorsey don't completely suck like Robert Ayers. He can't rush the passer or stop the run.

That's not really true. In 2010, Dorsey was asked to rush the passer more times than Hali was.

Robert Ayers had the same number of sacks (6) last season, in 389 pass rushing snaps, as Dorsey and Jackson have in their entire careers, combined (in 2266 pass rushing snaps). He's also pretty good against the run.

You know how Jackson took time to develop and turn into a somewhat worthwhile player? Same thing with Ayers, only Ayers is a better all around player.

Play2win
07-25-2012, 07:19 AM
oh wow....a Raiders fan talking about a high ceiling and speed....

shocking

You know its always a high ceiling, when you dug yourself in a ditch the size of the Grand Canyon.

Irish Stout
07-25-2012, 09:42 AM
Pioli didn't draft Dorsey. And I think Allen Bailey is the better than both of them. He's gonna be a great player.

Again, your level of comprehension flabbergasts. So, when you falsely argue that Ayers is a bad player, should we respond: "So?!?! Fox and Elway didn't draft him." No.

No it's not half their job. Their first priority is stop the run. Second is to occupy blockers to the OLB's can get sacks.

At least Jackson and Dorsey don't completely suck like Robert Ayers. He can't rush the passer or stop the run.

Ayers, while not amazing by any stretch, has shown to be a solid defender from the DE position. Which is his natural position and he contributed to many run stops and a few sacks from that position. When McD had him at LB, he was clearly playing from a weak position for him and he struggled mightily.

No one with a decent football IQ would argue that Ayers completely sucks from the DE. He is actually decent from that spot. Not the best, not the worst and probably more solid on pass rush than Jackson and Dorsey combined.

JLesSPE
07-25-2012, 09:49 AM
LOL what???

I thought Dorsey was drafted in '08 and Pioli was hired in '09.

barryr
07-25-2012, 09:53 AM
The division is the Broncos to lose. Only the Chargers are the team that can threaten the Broncos IMO.

Manning needs to stay healthy and the defense needs to improve of course, which I think is a real possibility.

The Chargers have the 2nd best QB in the division, but their defense has had troubles and Turner seems to have more underachieving type teams than anything else.

The Chiefs have accumulated more talent, but let's face it, they are going nowhere with Cassell at QB. He just isn't the QB that really worried anybody. To win more than 8 games, they will need to win many ugly type games and that is hard to do for a full season.

The Raiders have a rookie head coach, who has never been a head coach at any level. They have many holes and Palmer just isn't very good anymore and they have lost some depth as well.

Irish Stout
07-25-2012, 09:59 AM
I thought Dorsey was drafted in '08 and Pioli was hired in '09.

I think his point of ??? What ??? had more to do with the non-sequitor. But perhaps he knows an internet sports argument rule I am unfamiliar with. Let me check the rule book...

Ok, I found it. Here:

Rule 12.3(a) - Use of Non Sequential Arguments Where Relevance Appears Lacking - Exceptions:

"When arguing the strengths and weaknesses of any team, it is always fair for a homer to point out that certain players were not drafted by the current FO. In such a situation it automatically nullifies any weaknesses of that player and strengthens the homer's argument."

bronco militia
07-25-2012, 10:00 AM
I think his point of ??? What ??? had more to do with the non-sequitor. But perhaps he knows an internet sports argument rule I am unfamiliar with. Let me check the rule book...

Ok, I found it. Here:

Rule 12.3(a) - Use of Non Sequential Arguments Where Relevance Appears Lacking - Exceptions:

"When arguing the strengths and weaknesses of any team, it is always fair for a homer to point out that certain players were not drafted by the current FO. In such a situation it automatically nullifies any weaknesses of that player and strengthens the homer's argument."

damn it!! Hilarious!

JLesSPE
07-25-2012, 10:03 AM
I think his point of ??? What ??? had more to do with the non-sequitor. But perhaps he knows an internet sports argument rule I am unfamiliar with. Let me check the rule book...

Ok, I found it. Here:

Rule 12.3(a) - Use of Non Sequential Arguments Where Relevance Appears Lacking - Exceptions:

"When arguing the strengths and weaknesses of any team, it is always fair for a homer to point out that certain players were not drafted by the current FO. In such a situation it automatically nullifies any weaknesses of that player and strengthens the homer's argument."

Gotcha, I totally missed the point. Thanks for pointing that out. Carry on

Raider9175
07-25-2012, 10:04 AM
The division is the Broncos to lose. Only the Chargers are the team that can threaten the Broncos IMO.

Manning needs to stay healthy and the defense needs to improve of course, which I think is a real possibility.

The Chargers have the 2nd best QB in the division, but their defense has had troubles and Turner seems to have more underachieving type teams than anything else.

The Chiefs have accumulated more talent, but let's face it, they are going nowhere with Cassell at QB. He just isn't the QB that really worried anybody. To win more than 8 games, they will need to win many ugly type games and that is hard to do for a full season.

The Raiders have a rookie head coach, who has never been a head coach at any level. They have many holes and Palmer just isn't very good anymore and they have lost some depth as well.

Only thing the Bronco and the Chargers will be competing for is last place in the Afc West, or which team drafts first.
Neither team has a chance to win the division. It's a two team race between the Chiefs and the Raiders. Both those teams have the two most talent in the division. Not even close.

barryr
07-25-2012, 10:08 AM
Only thing Bronco and Chargers will be competing for is last place in the Afc West or who drafts first.
Neither team has a chance to win the division. It's a two team race between the Chiefs and the Raiders. That whose the two most talented teams are in the division.

Whatever. Neither team has a QB worth a crap nor a good enough defense to carry a weak QB.

Irish Stout
07-25-2012, 10:09 AM
Only thing Bronco and Chargers will be competing for is last place in the Afc West or which team drafts first.
Neither team has a chance to win the division. It's a two team race between the Chiefs and the Raiders. Both those teams have the two most talent in the division.

I've seen Faider Joes like you claiming the same thing for the past 9 years or so. Yawn.

Kaylore
07-25-2012, 10:13 AM
Only thing the Bronco and the Chargers will be competing for is last place in the Afc West, or which team drafts first.
Neither team has a chance to win the division. It's a two team race between the Chiefs and the Raiders. Both those teams have the two most talent in the division. Not even close.

So Raider 9175 is predicting that the Raiders and Chiefs will be potentially winning the division and the Chargers and Broncos will be the two worst teams in the NFL next year.

Raider9175
07-25-2012, 10:21 AM
Whatever. Neither team has a QB worth a crap nor a good enough defense to carry a weak QB.

Carson Palmer 199 completed 328 attempts 61% completion percentaGE 2,753 YARDS 8.4 average yard per reception.

Now that with him coming off his couch week 7 cold, Never played with the team, Not knowing the plays, The players- chemistry or timing, and didn't have his stud Rb to lean on.. Tell me Genius what QB would have done any better under the same circumstances.

Now C Palmer playing in a more Qb friendly offense, Gets to play with DMC, has a whole off season to get on same page with his Wr corp and his weapons on offense were further upgraded.

This is by far the most explosive weapons C Palmer has ever had on offense. He going to have his best year he ever had in the NFl(there is that much talent on the Raiders offense)


Raiders would have run away from the division if there weapons stayed healthy on offense and that is without a defense. Raiders defense will be alot better in 2012.(better coaching and schemes)

Raider9175
07-25-2012, 10:28 AM
So Raider 9175 is predicting that the Raiders and Chiefs will be potentially winning the division and the Chargers and Broncos will be the two worst teams in the NFL next year.

Where did I say the Chargers and the Broncos would be the worst team in football. Neither team is winning the division. (that what I said) The funny thing is I see a lot of Bronco fans predicting 11 wins next year. Where? In your dreams. I need a good laugh today- tell me the games your winning next season, looking at this schedule.

Week 01
Pittsburgh Steelers
Pittsburgh Steelers
Sun, 09/09 at 6:20 PM MDT
Home:
Sports Authority Field at Mile High

TV: NBC

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 02
Atlanta Falcons
@ Atlanta Falcons
Mon, 09/17 at 6:30 PM MDT
Away:
Georgia Dome

TV: ESPN

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 03
Houston Texans
Houston Texans
Sun, 09/23 at 2:25 PM MDT
Home:
Sports Authority Field at Mile High

TV: CBS

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 04
Oakland Raiders
Oakland Raiders
Sun, 09/30 at 2:05 PM MDT
Home:
Sports Authority Field at Mile High

TV: CBS

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 05
New England Patriots
@ New England Patriots
Sun, 10/07 at 2:25 PM MDT
Away:
Gillette Stadium

TV: CBS

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 06
San Diego Chargers
@ San Diego Chargers
Mon, 10/15 at 6:30 PM MDT
Away:
Qualcomm Stadium

TV: ESPN

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 07
Bye
Week 08
New Orleans Saints
New Orleans Saints
Sun, 10/28 at 6:20 PM MDT
Home:
Sports Authority Field at Mile High

TV: NBC

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 09
Cincinnati Bengals
@ Cincinnati Bengals
Sun, 11/04 at 11:00 AM MST
Away:
Paul Brown Stadium

TV: CBS

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 10
Carolina Panthers
@ Carolina Panthers
Sun, 11/11 at 11:00 AM MST
Away:
Bank of America Stadium

TV: CBS

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 11
San Diego Chargers
San Diego Chargers
Sun, 11/18 at 2:25 PM MST
Home:
Sports Authority Field at Mile High

TV: CBS

WATCH ON DEMAND
Week 12
Kansas City Chiefs
@ Kansas City Chiefs
Sun, 11/25 at 11:00 AM MST
Away:
Arrowhead Stadium

TV: CBS

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 13
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Sun, 12/02 at 2:05 PM MST
Home:
Sports Authority Field at Mile High

TV: FOX

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 14
Oakland Raiders
@ Oakland Raiders
Thu, 12/06 at 6:20 PM MST
Away:
O.co Coliseum

TV: NFL NETWORK

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 15
Baltimore Ravens
@ Baltimore Ravens
Sun, 12/16 at 11:00 AM MST
Away:
M&T Bank Stadium

TV: CBS

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 16
Cleveland Browns
Cleveland Browns
Sun, 12/23 at 2:05 PM MST
Home:
Sports Authority Field at Mile High

TV: CBS

WATCH ON DEMAND

Week 17
Kansas City Chiefs
Kansas City Chiefs
Sun, 12/30 at 2:25 PM MST
Home:
Sports Authority Field at Mile High


I see Bronco record 6-10. That isn't winning the divison.

Irish Stout
07-25-2012, 10:45 AM
The 4 easiest to predict as potential losses are Patriots, Ravens and likely one against San Diego and one against the Chiefs. I think there are a lot of question mark games - the Houstons, the Panthers, the Saints, and always division games. However, I think we beat Pittsburgh (we've had their number the last several years in Denver). I think anywhere from 8 to 12 wins is a good possibility. Of course, we know nothing about this team under a new Def. Coordinator and a new QB, so until preseason is over, its extremely hard to narrow down a solid prediction.

Also, in the NFL, predictions are like a-holes, everyones got one and they all smell like **** to everyone else. So I don't expect you to like this Joe, but I can about guarantee your's stinks to me as well.

JJG
07-25-2012, 10:53 AM
No it's not half their job. Their first priority is stop the run. Second is to occupy blockers to the OLB's can get sacks.

At least Jackson and Dorsey don't completely suck like Robert Ayers. He can't rush the passer or stop the run.
last season:
Ayers had 2 more sacks than Dorsey and Jackson combined.
Ayers had 1 more forced fumble than Dorsey and Jackson combined.
Ayers had 1 more fumble recovery than Dorsey and Jackson combined.

Ayers averaged .375 and .75 fewer tackles per game than Dorsey and Jackson respectively.

barryr
07-25-2012, 11:21 AM
Carson Palmer 199 completed 328 attempts 61% completion percentaGE 2,753 YARDS 8.4 average yard per reception.

Now that with him coming off his couch week 7 cold, Never played with the team, Not knowing the plays, The players- chemistry or timing, and didn't have his stud Rb to lean on.. Tell me Genius what QB would have done any better under the same circumstances.

Now C Palmer playing in a more Qb friendly offense, Gets to play with DMC, has a whole off season to get on same page with his Wr corp and his weapons on offense were further upgraded.

This is by far the most explosive weapons C Palmer has ever had on offense. He going to have his best year he ever had in the NFl(there is that much talent on the Raiders offense)


Raiders would have run away from the division if there weapons stayed healthy on offense and that is without a defense. Raiders defense will be alot better in 2012.(better coaching and schemes)

He also threw more picks than TD's last year and his former team, Cincy, played much better last year than they did in years with Palmer at QB. Yeah, I'm worried. Manning will love playing against that Raider secondary btw LOL

400HZ
07-25-2012, 11:59 AM
Nice to see the irrational and completely unwarranted Raiders offseason hubris back on display. I don't remember it being this high since Randy Moss made an already emerging offense completely unstoppable.

Kaylore
07-25-2012, 12:11 PM
Nice to see the irrational and completely unwarranted Raiders offseason hubris back on display. I don't remember it being this high since Randy Moss made an already emerging offense completely unstoppable.

I totally agree. Every team's fan base has hope every offseason. The other three AFC West fan bases are no exception. But the Raiders honestly think they're winning the super bowl EVERY year and the rest of the division "isn't winning crap." EVERY YEAR they thump their chests about it. It's hilarious.

Rabb
07-25-2012, 12:13 PM
I have a buddy who is a big Raiders fan and he maintained all season last year that Palmer is the answer and feels the same this year. I am sure he will completely disprove his own personal history this time, right guys?

I swear, Raider fans in particular go down with the damn ship when it comes to hard-headed arguments.

boltaneer
07-25-2012, 12:26 PM
Nice to see the irrational and completely unwarranted Raiders offseason hubris back on display. I don't remember it being this high since Randy Moss made an already emerging offense completely unstoppable.

At least, Randy Moss was an acceptable reason for all that hope back then.

The optimism this year just doesn't make any sense at all.

Kaylore
07-25-2012, 12:30 PM
At least, Randy Moss was an acceptable reason for all that hope back then.

The optimism this year just doesn't make any sense at all.

Actually Al Davis is dead, so there's that...

Raider9175
07-25-2012, 12:31 PM
At least, Randy Moss was an acceptable reason for all that hope back then.

The optimism this year just doesn't make any sense at all.

Newflash. Another Raider wr getting behind the Chargers secondary. C Palmer loves playing that Charger defense. He makes that Charger secondary his personal Bi_ _ _.

KCStud
07-25-2012, 12:32 PM
That's not really true. In 2010, Dorsey was asked to rush the passer more times than Hali was.

Robert Ayers had the same number of sacks (6) last season, in 389 pass rushing snaps, as Dorsey and Jackson have in their entire careers, combined (in 2266 pass rushing snaps). He's also pretty good against the run.

You know how Jackson took time to develop and turn into a somewhat worthwhile player? Same thing with Ayers, only Ayers is a better all around player.

Jackson and Dorsey are elite 3-4 DE's when it comes to stopping the run. And this team needed that, because players like Tamba Hali struggled to stop the run at that time (last year he was actually pretty decent in that aspect).

One of the most important jobs of a 3-4 DE is to hold blockers at the point so that your OLB's have a chance to get to the QB. Since the Chiefs put Dorsey and Jackson in the 3-4 in 2009, Tamba Hali has had 35 sacks (11.5 average a season). The 3 years before that, Tamba got half as many sacks as opposed to the 3 years in the 3-4, and 2 years he had Jared Allen taking up all the double teams.

Jackson and Dorsey have done a good job in the Chiefs system. Of course they need to work on getting sacks, but they do a lot of the hard work that has made it easier for guys like DJ to have more opportunities.

Like I said before. I thnk Allen Bailey is gonna be a really good DE for us all around. He's going to make more of an impact than Dorsey or Jackson.

Rabb
07-25-2012, 12:42 PM
Newflash. Another Raider wr getting behind the Chargers secondary. C Palmer loves playing that Charger defense. He makes that Charger secondary his personal Bi_ _ _.

I am sure that's a wonderful consolation prize when you are not making the playoffs again.

Hey guys, Carson played the Chargers well...HIGH FIVE!!!

barryr
07-25-2012, 12:46 PM
Jackson and Dorsey are elite 3-4 DE's when it comes to stopping the run. And this team needed that, because players like Tamba Hali struggled to stop the run at that time (last year he was actually pretty decent in that aspect).

One of the most important jobs of a 3-4 DE is to hold blockers at the point so that your OLB's have a chance to get to the QB. Since the Chiefs put Dorsey and Jackson in the 3-4 in 2009, Tamba Hali has had 35 sacks (11.5 average a season). The 3 years before that, Tamba got half as many sacks as opposed to the 3 years in the 3-4, and 2 years he had Jared Allen taking up all the double teams.

Jackson and Dorsey have done a good job in the Chiefs system. Of course they need to work on getting sacks, but they do a lot of the hard work that has made it easier for guys like DJ to have more opportunities.

Like I said before. I thnk Allen Bailey is gonna be a really good DE for us all around. He's going to make more of an impact than Dorsey or Jackson.

Sorry, but drafting a 3-4 DE in the first round who offers little to nothing as a pass rusher is stupid, especially doing it twice. The only position worthy of drafting a DL in the first round is at DT or NT to be a run stuffer. The Chiefs decide to take the route this past draft and take an underachiever in the first round at NT. History shows taking a DL or even an OL, that are considered underachievers coming into the NFL rarely pan out. Good luck with that one.

boltaneer
07-25-2012, 01:21 PM
I am sure that's a wonderful consolation prize when you are not making the playoffs again.

Hey guys, Carson played the Chargers well...HIGH FIVE!!!

I love the Raider logic. The Chargers D sucked last year so the fact that the Raiders burned their secondary makes them an elite offense. :rofl:

Bacillus Anthracis
07-25-2012, 01:29 PM
I love the Raider logic. The Chargers D sucked last year so the fact that the Raiders burned their secondary makes them an elite offense. :rofl:

For a fan of what must be the most underachieving (and uninteresting) team in the history of the league you sure do talk a lot of sh!t. And what credible threat do the Chargers pose to anyone? Norv's back, most of your best players are gone, and you've done dick in the offseason to improve anything. Newsflash, your window closed two years ago and this year it shuts even tighter.

It just goes to show how little you know about the opposing teams in your division. The Raider offense is going to score points. It's the defense that's worth making fun of--at least according to the past 10 years.

Requiem
07-25-2012, 01:31 PM
Cripple fight!

Tombstone RJ
07-25-2012, 01:34 PM
For a fan of what must be the most underachieving (and uninteresting) team in the history of the league you sure do talk a lot of ****. And what credible threat do the Chargers pose to anyone? Norv's back, most of your best players are gone, and you've done dick in the offseason to improve anything. Newsflash, your window closed two years ago and this year it shuts even tighter.

It just goes to show how little you know about the opposing teams in your division. The Raider offense is going to score points. It's the defense that's worth making fun of--at least according to the past 10 years.

well there's that and the idiot fans. Do you dress up like the love child of darth vadar and a zebra?

not that there's anything wrong with that :kiddingme

gyldenlove
07-25-2012, 02:16 PM
Carson Palmer 199 completed 328 attempts 61% completion percentaGE 2,753 YARDS 8.4 average yard per reception.

Now that with him coming off his couch week 7 cold, Never played with the team, Not knowing the plays, The players- chemistry or timing, and didn't have his stud Rb to lean on.. Tell me Genius what QB would have done any better under the same circumstances.

Now C Palmer playing in a more Qb friendly offense, Gets to play with DMC, has a whole off season to get on same page with his Wr corp and his weapons on offense were further upgraded.

This is by far the most explosive weapons C Palmer has ever had on offense. He going to have his best year he ever had in the NFl(there is that much talent on the Raiders offense)


Raiders would have run away from the division if there weapons stayed healthy on offense and that is without a defense. Raiders defense will be alot better in 2012.(better coaching and schemes)

Interesting stats on Palmer:

Carson Palmer has started double digit games in 6 seasons, in ....

... 6 of those seasons he won fewer games and had a lower qb rating than Peyton Manning
... 5 of those seasons Peyton Manning passed for more TDs
... 4 of those seasons he had at least 20 turnovers
... 3 of those seasons he went .500 or better
... 2 of those seasons he went to the playoffs
... 1 of those seasons he scored at least 30 TDs
... 0 of those seasons he won a playoff game

barryr
07-25-2012, 02:22 PM
Interesting stats on Palmer:

Carson Palmer has started double digit games in 6 seasons, in ....

... 6 of those seasons he won fewer games and had a lower qb rating than Peyton Manning
... 5 of those seasons Peyton Manning passed for more TDs
... 4 of those seasons he had at least 20 turnovers
... 3 of those seasons he went .500 or better
... 2 of those seasons he went to the playoffs
... 1 of those seasons he scored at least 30 TDs
... 0 of those seasons he won a playoff game

But raider fans will ignore all of that and instead, take comfort "knowing" they have a stud offense and Palmer is now ready after 10 years in the NFL to take a team someplace. Whatever. They'll disappear by October.

lonestar
07-25-2012, 02:25 PM
But raider fans will ignore all of that and instead, take comfort "knowing" they have a stud offense and Palmer is now ready after 10 years in the NFL to take a team someplace. Whatever. They'll disappear by October.

One can only hope..

lonestar
07-25-2012, 02:26 PM
Interesting stats on Palmer:

Carson Palmer has started double digit games in 6 seasons, in ....

... 6 of those seasons he won fewer games and had a lower qb rating than Peyton Manning
... 5 of those seasons Peyton Manning passed for more TDs
... 4 of those seasons he had at least 20 turnovers
... 3 of those seasons he went .500 or better
... 2 of those seasons he went to the playoffs
... 1 of those seasons he scored at least 30 TDs
... 0 of those seasons he won a playoff game

Thanks for taking the time to EXPOSE this..I'll guess raiderjoe and company will choose to IGGY it..

underrated29
07-25-2012, 02:42 PM
i actually really like allen bailey. I forgot the cheifs got him a couple years ago. He should be real good. Which sucks because their defense is already real good. Unless knowshon moreno is on the field. I think knowshon could literally beat jamal lewis 300+ yard game on the ground against those guys this year.....

oh whats that you say? we dont play the cheifs until like week 8 or so...Nevermind, knowshon will be on IR by then. Chefs dodge a bullet on that one.

brantleymassey
07-25-2012, 03:02 PM
Broncos 10-6
San Diego 8-8
Kansas City 6-10
Oakland 4-12

I have to agree with this. I think Oakland made another coaching mistake. They hired a first year coordinator and while the Denver D did improve it was still bad. Denver fans know what happens with you hire a young guy with little experience and a terrible team. As for KC I think they will be very tough so they could be a little higher but Cassel is still not a good QB. As for the chargers, well they never they have gotten worse each of the last four years and I don't expect that to change anytime under Norv Turner. Hopefully Denver can reach 10 wins but we can't forget one injury and they could be a 4 or 6 win team

MagicHef
07-25-2012, 03:03 PM
Jackson and Dorsey are elite 3-4 DE's when it comes to stopping the run. And this team needed that, because players like Tamba Hali struggled to stop the run at that time (last year he was actually pretty decent in that aspect).

One of the most important jobs of a 3-4 DE is to hold blockers at the point so that your OLB's have a chance to get to the QB. Since the Chiefs put Dorsey and Jackson in the 3-4 in 2009, Tamba Hali has had 35 sacks (11.5 average a season). The 3 years before that, Tamba got half as many sacks as opposed to the 3 years in the 3-4, and 2 years he had Jared Allen taking up all the double teams.

Jackson and Dorsey have done a good job in the Chiefs system. Of course they need to work on getting sacks, but they do a lot of the hard work that has made it easier for guys like DJ to have more opportunities.

Like I said before. I thnk Allen Bailey is gonna be a really good DE for us all around. He's going to make more of an impact than Dorsey or Jackson.

It's too bad for San Francisco and Houston that their DEs don't know that they aren't supposed to actually get to the QB. I guess that's why those two teams have such bad defenses.

boltaneer
07-25-2012, 04:12 PM
For a fan of what must be the most underachieving (and uninteresting) team in the history of the league you sure do talk a lot of ****. And what credible threat do the Chargers pose to anyone? Norv's back, most of your best players are gone, and you've done dick in the offseason to improve anything. Newsflash, your window closed two years ago and this year it shuts even tighter.

It just goes to show how little you know about the opposing teams in your division. The Raider offense is going to score points. It's the defense that's worth making fun of--at least according to the past 10 years.

You really don't read what anyone writes, do you?

KCStud
07-25-2012, 05:08 PM
It's too bad for San Francisco and Houston that their DEs don't know that they aren't supposed to actually get to the QB. I guess that's why those two teams have such bad defenses.

Justin Smith played in a 4-3 forever moron. Of course he's a good pass rusher. And JJ Watts was a great draft pick. He is the prototypical 3-4 DE.

Maybe, just maybe, if you knew football, you'd understand that not every team plays the same type of 3-4 defense.

Requiem
07-25-2012, 05:11 PM
http://netdna.copyblogger.com/images/two-trolls.jpg

KCStud
07-25-2012, 05:17 PM
Sorry, but drafting a 3-4 DE in the first round who offers little to nothing as a pass rusher is stupid, especially doing it twice. The only position worthy of drafting a DL in the first round is at DT or NT to be a run stuffer. The Chiefs decide to take the route this past draft and take an underachiever in the first round at NT. History shows taking a DL or even an OL, that are considered underachievers coming into the NFL rarely pan out. Good luck with that one.

Dorsey wasn't supposed to be a 3-4 DE. I still think he'd be an above average 4-3 DT.

I trust Romeo with this pick. He's made good players all the time. And if you're suggesting that Poe was terrible in college, look at what he did. He had very similar stats to Phil Taylor, BJ Raji, and Haloti Ngata.

History says that acquiring an old veteran QB doesn't equal winning a SB. So does that mean you should give up on the Broncos chances?

KCStud
07-25-2012, 05:19 PM
http://netdna.copyblogger.com/images/two-trolls.jpg

I'm still laughing at the 8, yes 8, post comments you've made about me this month.

Hilarious!

Requiem
07-25-2012, 05:21 PM
http://i45.tinypic.com/b97wc8.jpg

barryr
07-25-2012, 05:26 PM
I'm still laughing at the 8, yes 8, post comments you've made about me this month.

Hilarious!

Don't worry, he does that with everybody, even other Bronco fans. Every team has its nuts.

KCStud
07-25-2012, 05:26 PM
http://i45.tinypic.com/b97wc8.jpg

Requiem: Says he doesn't give a ****.......then posts 8 post comments in a month's time.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K8Mv6eXevvA/TipEYd5irNI/AAAAAAAABTU/FwmC_LpokbU/s1600/yao-ming-happy-sad-nba-funny-photos.jpg

barryr
07-25-2012, 05:32 PM
Dorsey wasn't supposed to be a 3-4 DE. I still think he'd be an above average 4-3 DT.

I trust Romeo with this pick. He's made good players all the time. And if you're suggesting that Poe was terrible in college, look at what he did. He had very similar stats to Phil Taylor, BJ Raji, and Haloti Ngata.

History says that acquiring an old veteran QB doesn't equal winning a SB. So does that mean you should give up on the Broncos chances?

True, Dorsey would be better in a 4-3 defense. Usually teams like their 3-4 DE to have some height to them to better occupy blockers and not get swallowed up as much.

Poe played in a mediocre conference against mediocre competition, so one would expect him to do more than he did if really going to be that great a pro. It's not impossible, but I just don't see it, especially this year.

Old veteran QB's usually don't do much with their new teams, but Manning's numbers in 2010 were better than at least 95% of the QB's in the NFL and few have his work ethic.

barryr
07-25-2012, 05:35 PM
Requiem: Says he doesn't give a ****.......then posts 8 post comments in a month's time.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K8Mv6eXevvA/TipEYd5irNI/AAAAAAAABTU/FwmC_LpokbU/s1600/yao-ming-happy-sad-nba-funny-photos.jpg

That's nothing. He has given me and others hundreds of such comments, as many as 20 in a day, but then says he doesn't do that and others need to get a life ROFL!

Requiem
07-25-2012, 06:02 PM
Requiem: Says he doesn't give a ****.......then posts 8 post comments in a month's time.

You spend several hours a day of your life on a rival fan forum. That is beyond pathetic.

Bacillus Anthracis
07-25-2012, 07:42 PM
You really don't read what anyone writes, do you?

Let me a take a moment to go back and read your nearly 4,000 posts here. Hold on... Wait a minute. Just keep checking, I'll get back to you.

KCStud
07-25-2012, 10:55 PM
True, Dorsey would be better in a 4-3 defense. Usually teams like their 3-4 DE to have some height to them to better occupy blockers and not get swallowed up as much.

Poe played in a mediocre conference against mediocre competition, so one would expect him to do more than he did if really going to be that great a pro. It's not impossible, but I just don't see it, especially this year.

Old veteran QB's usually don't do much with their new teams, but Manning's numbers in 2010 were better than at least 95% of the QB's in the NFL and few have his work ethic.

That's true about Poe, but people look at it one way. He was constantly triple-teamed because he was the only good defensive player Memphis had. His conference had a ton of teams play in the spread too, meaning they quickly got rid of the ball nullifying the DL from having a chance to make a play.

There are pro's and con's. We'll just have to see how he does. But he is the classic "wait three years and see" prospect. NT is one of the hardest positions to learn in football and Poe had terrible defensive coaching, so essentially he's starting all over.

KCStud
07-25-2012, 10:58 PM
Wow and now Requiem is saying I could be the next James Holmes. :saywhat:

I'm pretty sure this board would rather have a troll than a poster who constantly harasses people. Or not. Never know.

Jetmeck
07-25-2012, 11:07 PM
Wow and now Requiem is saying I could be the next James Holmes. :saywhat:

I'm pretty sure this board would rather have a troll than a poster who constantly harasses people. Or not. Never know.

Whatever..........some people live to stir the chit.

lonestar
07-25-2012, 11:14 PM
Whatever..........some people live to stir the chit.

I IGGY them because they are not worth wasting time on.. Learned that over almost ten years of reading his drivel..

an added benefit is they can't PM or rep you with chicken **** comments..

so he takes shots in public because I will not respond I think that pisses him off even more.. I will not validate his moronic commentary what he thinks is cute little cartoons..just sophomoric ..

Only wish more folks would use that GREAT IGGY tool.. Sure cut down on wasted band width..

Raider9175
07-26-2012, 03:40 AM
I love the Raider logic. The Chargers D sucked last year so the fact that the Raiders burned their secondary makes them an elite offense. :rofl:

No the point was a team who secondary was embarrassed by the Raiders Wr's all season in 2011, their fan base should just keep their mouth close when they are talking about the Raider wr's. (how accurate is your assessment when all you saw Is Raider Wr running past your secondary)

You sound kind of silly even trying to get in the conversation. That was the point , not using the success Raiders wr had against a porous Chargers secondary to justify how good they are. From what I saw , I assume everyone abused that secondary.(that isn't a big accomplishment)

Raider9175
07-26-2012, 04:16 AM
True, Dorsey would be better in a 4-3 defense. Usually teams like their 3-4 DE to have some height to them to better occupy blockers and not get swallowed up as much.

Poe played in a mediocre conference against mediocre competition, so one would expect him to do more than he did if really going to be that great a pro. It's not impossible, but I just don't see it, especially this year.

Old veteran QB's usually don't do much with their new teams, but Manning's numbers in 2010 were better than at least 95% of the QB's in the NFL and few have his work ethic.

Barryr I hope your not being serious with this response.

Manning numbers in 2010 are immaterial when you consider he had another two neck surgeries since, Is now 36 years old, and missed the whole 2011 season due to that injury.

Only in the world of Barryr would you ignore all of that and think your going to see anything close to the 2010 version of Peyton Manning.

Does anyone know the over and under from Vegas how many games P manning plays this year. Peyton Manning’s over-under before being sidelined with injury is 8.5 games. How many Bronco fans are taking the over. But the Bronco have to be the favorites to win the AFc West.

LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

ONLY In Donkey land. Caleb Hanie capable of taking them to the promise land- Ask Bears fans about that one.

DBroncos4life
07-26-2012, 07:08 AM
Barryr I hope your not being serious with this response.

Manning numbers in 2010 are immaterial when you consider he had another two neck surgeries since, Is now 36 years old, and missed the whole 2011 season due to that injury.

Only in the world of Barryr would you ignore all of that and think your going to see anything close to the 2010 version of Peyton Manning.

Does anyone know the over and under from Vegas how many games P manning plays this year. Peyton Manning’s over-under before being sidelined with injury is 8.5 games. How many Bronco fans are taking the over. But the Bronco have to be the favorites to win the AFc West.

LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

ONLY In Donkey land. Caleb Hanie capable of taking them to the promise land- Ask Bears fans about that one.
What is Denver's odds of winning the super bowl by Vegas?

MagicHef
07-26-2012, 07:42 AM
Justin Smith played in a 4-3 forever moron. Of course he's a good pass rusher. And JJ Watts was a great draft pick. He is the prototypical 3-4 DE.

Maybe, just maybe, if you knew football, you'd understand that not every team plays the same type of 3-4 defense.

You're right. It would be pretty stupid of me to say something like this:

One of the most important jobs of a 3-4 DE is to hold blockers at the point so that your OLB's have a chance to get to the QB.

Did the Chiefs really want two guys that couldn't rush the passer as DEs, or did they fit them into their defense because that's all Dorsey and Jackson turned into?

If they wanted DEs to just take up blockers and stop the run, why draft Bailey?

peacepipe
07-26-2012, 07:55 AM
You're right. It would be pretty stupid of me to say something like this:



Did the Chiefs really want two guys that couldn't rush the passer as DEs, or did they fit them into their defense because that's all Dorsey and Jackson turned into?

If they wanted DEs to just take up blockers and stop the run, why draft Bailey?

DEs in a 3-4 are not responsible for rushing the passer per say. does it help? yes. rushing the passer is the OLBs primary responsibility in a 3-4. DEs in a 3-4 are primarily responsible for eating up blockers. not everybody runs a 3-4 ther same,but as a general rule 3-4 DEs don't need to be great passs rushers.

MagicHef
07-26-2012, 08:20 AM
DEs in a 3-4 are not responsible for rushing the passer per say. does it help? yes. rushing the passer is the OLBs primary responsibility in a 3-4. DEs in a 3-4 are primarily responsible for eating up blockers. not everybody runs a 3-4 ther same,but as a general rule 3-4 DEs don't need to be great passs rushers.

Yes, but if you're looking for a block-eater, you draft them in the later rounds, or grab them in FA. You don't pick them with the #3 or the #5 overall. Unless you're the Chiefs, that is.

lonestar
07-26-2012, 10:51 AM
Yes, but if you're looking for a block-eater, you draft them in the later rounds, or grab them in FA. You don't pick them with the #3 or the #5 overall. Unless you're the Chiefs, that is.

Whoops there you go thinking again.. Watch out the other dumb asses will be all over you like stink on do-do..

KCStud
07-26-2012, 11:56 AM
You're right. It would be pretty stupid of me to say something like this:



Did the Chiefs really want two guys that couldn't rush the passer as DEs, or did they fit them into their defense because that's all Dorsey and Jackson turned into?

If they wanted DEs to just take up blockers and stop the run, why draft Bailey?

Because Dorsey wasn't drafted by this regime. He's a 4-3 NT playing in the 3-4 DE.

His contract is up after this year. Bailey will most likely take over.

KCStud
07-26-2012, 12:01 PM
Yes, but if you're looking for a block-eater, you draft them in the later rounds, or grab them in FA. You don't pick them with the #3 or the #5 overall. Unless you're the Chiefs, that is.

God you're dumb. Dorsey was drafted to be a 4-3 DT. He was talked up like Suh. And most of the picks in the top half of the first round were busts except Raji, who had a bad season last year.

Jackson also took a pay cut too, so there goes that argument.

Flex Gunmetal
07-26-2012, 12:21 PM
No the point was a team who secondary was embarrassed by the Raiders Wr's all season in 2011, their fan base should just keep their mouth close when they are talking about the Raider wr's. (how accurate is your assessment when all you saw Is Raider Wr running past your secondary)

You sound kind of silly even trying to get in the conversation. That was the point , not using the success Raiders wr had against a porous Chargers secondary to justify how good they are. From what I saw , I assume everyone abused that secondary.(that isn't a big accomplishment)

1. LOL at bold.

2. Is English your second language? I know 5th graders who have a firmer grasp on grammar, punctuation and sentence structure.

Bacillus Anthracis
07-26-2012, 12:25 PM
What is Denver's odds of winning the super bowl by Vegas?

Denver: 18-1

Kansas City: 40-1

Oakland: 60-1

San Diego: 30-1

The Colts, Jags, and Vikings are all at the bottom at 150-1.

New England is the favorite at 5-1 while Green Bay is close at 11-2 (or 5.5 to 1).

Pittsburgh and Philly are up there at 8-1 and Houston at 10-1.

A good punchers chance would seem to be the Bears at 18-1. If things go right for them, they have a good a chance as anyone else. A couple hundred bucks would earn a nice return.

That's according to the first site I looked at so take it for whatever it's worth. But even if it came straight outta the asses of the best oddsmakers in Vegas, none of those odds are worth much. An injury to a starting quarterback earns any team spot next to the Colts.

DBroncos4life
07-26-2012, 02:30 PM
Denver: 18-1

Kansas City: 40-1

Oakland: 60-1

San Diego: 30-1

The Colts, Jags, and Vikings are all at the bottom at 150-1.

New England is the favorite at 5-1 while Green Bay is close at 11-2 (or 5.5 to 1).

Pittsburgh and Philly are up there at 8-1 and Houston at 10-1.

A good punchers chance would seem to be the Bears at 18-1. If things go right for them, they have a good a chance as anyone else. A couple hundred bucks would earn a nice return.

That's according to the first site I looked at so take it for whatever it's worth. But even if it came straight outta the asses of the best oddsmakers in Vegas, none of those odds are worth much. An injury to a starting quarterback earns any team spot next to the Colts.

That's pretty high odds for Vegas given they think Manning won't play more then 9 games wouldn't you think?

Bacillus Anthracis
07-26-2012, 05:36 PM
That's pretty high odds for Vegas given they think Manning won't play more then 9 games wouldn't you think?'

I think them putting odds on the number of games any given player will play in are even less likely to be accurate than their Superbowl odds.

Manning (or any other player for that matter) could eat it in training camp and be done for life. Or Manning could continue to play at a HOF level for the next few years. 9 games or several seasons, who the hell knows? They must have an extra orifice from which to pull things out of for guesses like that.

MagicHef
07-26-2012, 08:03 PM
God you're dumb. Dorsey was drafted to be a 4-3 DT. He was talked up like Suh. And most of the picks in the top half of the first round were busts except Raji, who had a bad season last year.

Jackson also took a pay cut too, so there goes that argument.

Let me get this straight.

Dorsey was hyped like Suh, yet hasn't produced anywhere close to him, and Jackson was picked #3, and then was forced to take a pay cut before his rookie contract was up?

This is your evidence that they aren't busts?

KCStud
07-26-2012, 08:19 PM
Let me get this straight.

Dorsey was hyped like Suh, yet hasn't produced anywhere close to him, and Jackson was picked #3, and then was forced to take a pay cut before his rookie contract was up?

This is your evidence that they aren't busts?

They aren't busts. They aren't world beaters either.

Raider9175
07-27-2012, 08:25 AM
1. LOL at bold.

2. Is English your second language? I know 5th graders who have a firmer grasp on grammar, punctuation and sentence structure.

Wow your English grammar might be better than mine. Who cares this is a football board. Why don't you spend your time on that kind of board and leave the football talk to the fans who understand the game.

You obviously don't know football .

Raider9175
07-27-2012, 08:45 AM
Thanks for taking the time to EXPOSE this..I'll guess raiderjoe and company will choose to IGGY it..

Here is the deal, no one is arguing Peyton manning career. He is a first ballot hall of famer. His accomplishment speak for themselve. Now this is a different conversation if the Broncos got him while he was in his prime(with no health issues).

Where we have a problem is to assume HE the real Peyton Manning. The man is 36 years now, had four very serious neck injuries , didn't play at all in 2011, and His weapons surrounding him aren't as good.

Who cares how he looks throwing the football in shorts, the test won't come till he takes a blindside hit. How many hits can he take before he doesn't get up) See Brett favre and Troy Aikman, in there later stages of their career both took a serious beating every time they threw the ball.
The older you get the more you body starts to feel it .(Now add the four neck surgeries and let see how many games he can play in in 2012.


Caleb Hanie taking the broncos to the promise land. Ask The Bear fans, how did that work out for them.

Raider9175
07-27-2012, 09:07 AM
I have to agree with this. I think Oakland made another coaching mistake. They hired a first year coordinator and while the Denver D did improve it was still bad. Denver fans know what happens with you hire a young guy with little experience and a terrible team. As for KC I think they will be very tough so they could be a little higher but Cassel is still not a good QB. As for the chargers, well they never they have gotten worse each of the last four years and I don't expect that to change anytime under Norv Turner. Hopefully Denver can reach 10 wins but we can't forget one injury and they could be a 4 or 6 win team

I'm going to say it slowly and I would advise you to read it twenty times so it sinks in.

The Fact is if not for the injuries on offense, the Raiders would have run away with the AFc West in 2011. That with a Defense that was atrocious. They couldn't stop anyone. That is a fact.

Now not only do they have a top ten offense but they upgraded that offense in several places for 2012. This offense should be top five in 2012. (with the improvements)


If the offense was good enough to win the division if they stayed healthy . What ever they get out of the defense in 2012 is gravy. (the offense will carry this team)

Raiders hired a defensive staff. Let them build the defense. They don't need this defense to be top five to win. All they need to improve this defense to average, and the Raiders are going very far in the playoffs. The raider offense going to be that good(No AFC West defense can handle)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfBbBv6Lv-A&feature=related

Bacillus Anthracis
07-27-2012, 11:59 AM
I'm going to say it slowly and I would advise you to read it twenty times so it sinks in.

The Fact is if not for the injuries on offense, the Raiders would have run away with the AFc West in 2011. That with a Defense that was atrocious. They couldn't stop anyone. That is a fact.

Now not only do they have a top ten offense but they upgraded that offense in several places for 2012. This offense should be top five in 2012. (with the improvements)


If the offense was good enough to win the division if they stayed healthy . What ever they get out of the defense in 2012 is gravy. (the offense will carry this team)

Raiders hired a defensive staff. Let them build the defense. They don't need this defense to be top five to win. All they need to improve this defense to average, and the Raiders are going very far in the playoffs. The raider offense going to be that good(No AFC West defense can handle)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfBbBv6Lv-A&feature=related

I wouldn't say top 5. That's a helluva prediction. Assuming everyone stays healthy most of the time, then top 10 maybe.

And you're right, we had exceptional injuries last year to go along with the worst D in Raider history. Michael Bush was literally the only RB we could put in the backfield for the last 6 weeks of the season. Yeah, we had Rock Cartwright but he was just an older, slower version of Bush.

There was about 6-7 weeks in a row where we were down to our 5th and 6th WRs; and we had a qb who came in as cold as cold could be.

Now, if we'd kept Al Saunders as our OC, fine. Then top 10 easy. But we didn't. Instead we have Greg Knapp, a guy with a not so great track record. Ask Seahawk fans.

We have a new system, new language, and players who weren't drafted to play in such a system. I think Jacoby Ford will make the transition easily, Moore will eventually make it. But DHB? He finally came into own last season but he ain't the quickest learner in the class. Some think that his off the line speed makes him tailor made for a short and precise passing game; but sports fans love blowing sunshine up each other's asses about how great X player is going to be.

But if it does come together; If the wideouts know their assignments and can get off the ball, and can run their routes precisely, we'll be tough to stop. And IF McFadden is healthy for most games, lookout.

razorwire77
07-27-2012, 01:50 PM
I'm going to say it slowly and I would advise you to read it twenty times so it sinks in.

The Fact is if not for the injuries on offense, the Raiders would have run away with the AFc West in 2011. That with a Defense that was atrocious. They couldn't stop anyone. That is a fact.

Now not only do they have a top ten offense but they upgraded that offense in several places for 2012. This offense should be top five in 2012. (with the improvements)


If the offense was good enough to win the division if they stayed healthy . What ever they get out of the defense in 2012 is gravy. (the offense will carry this team)
Raiders hired a defensive staff. Let them build the defense. They don't need this defense to be top five to win. All they need to improve this defense to average, and the Raiders are going very far in the playoffs. The raider offense going to be that good(No AFC West defense can handle)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfBbBv6Lv-A&feature=related
I love how you speak in hypothetical "facts." Raider fans are the only ones that are consistently too stupid to understand the difference between the hypothetical and facts. Here's a quick lesson for you. Facts are indisputable events that actually took place in this plane of existence.
Here, let me try doing it Raiderfan way.
Fact: Had the Broncos never hired McDaniels as coach, never traded Jay Cutler, Ryan Clady had never gotten hurt playing basketball and they had drafted Ed Reed instead of Ashley Lelie in 2002 they would have run away with the AFC West in 2011.

Steve Sewell
07-27-2012, 01:55 PM
Retard9175, with the time you've wasted in this thread, I could have taught you to write in a coherent manner with proper punctuation.

Do the Raiders attract idiots for fans or does the Oakland public school system suck that bad? I'm guessing it's a strong combination of both.

Raider9175
07-27-2012, 02:17 PM
I wouldn't say top 5. That's a helluva prediction. Assuming everyone stays healthy most of the time, then top 10 maybe.

And you're right, we had exceptional injuries last year to go along with the worst D in Raider history. Michael Bush was literally the only RB we could put in the backfield for the last 6 weeks of the season. Yeah, we had Rock Cartwright but he was just an older, slower version of Bush.

There was about 6-7 weeks in a row where we were down to our 5th and 6th WRs; and we had a qb who came in as cold as cold could be.

Now, if we'd kept Al Saunders as our OC, fine. Then top 10 easy. But we didn't. Instead we have Greg Knapp, a guy with a not so great track record. Ask Seahawk fans.

We have a new system, new language, and players who weren't drafted to play in such a system. I think Jacoby Ford will make the transition easily, Moore will eventually make it. But DHB? He finally came into own last season but he ain't the quickest learner in the class. Some think that his off the line speed makes him tailor made for a short and precise passing game; but sports fans love blowing sunshine up each other's asses about how great X player is going to be.

But if it does come together; If the wideouts know their assignments and can get off the ball, and can run their routes precisely, we'll be tough to stop. And IF McFadden is healthy for most games, lookout.

Raiders offense will be top five if they stay healthy. The Raiders been a top ten offense the last two years. ( so I don't understand why your lowering the bar - just silly)

The Biggest question with the change in system was the oline.(That was the top worry when the Raiders changed coaches/philosophy)
There is no worries now as Raiders brought in guys that fit that scheme perfect. LT Veldheer and C Wisniiewski can play in any system(both are very smart and very athletic) . Mike Bresiel was the starting guard for the Texans in the new blocking scheme Raiders will be using. . Tony Bergstrom was rated the best zone blocking guard in the draft. Lucas nix was rated as the fourth best. Cooper Carlisle who was a misfit in last year blocking scheme , is a nice fit in this blocking scheme. (nice veteran depth) Alot OF people RT Kill Khalif barnes( had too many penalties) but he was a big part of an oline that only gave up 25 sacks. Joe Barksdale is pushing him for that RT job.

There is no worries what so ever at Wr, as the Raiders are still going to utilize what there wr do best. GO deep. Why would you change anything when you have blazing speed at WR and a Qb who throws a very accurate deep ball. Just the Raiders will be using their running backs and Te more in the passing game. ( more safer passes for C Palmer with just as much chance for big plays.) Carson Palmer doesn't have his best season ever as a pro, than Greg Knapp should be fired .

Now the brillance OF Reggie MCkenzie is he added WR that are suited to WCO ( Juron Criner 6'3 222, Rod Streater 6'3 200 and either Ed Mcgee 6'2 210 and Derek Carrier 6'4 238. Expect Juron Criner to replace DHB when Raiders get in the redzone. (he going to be a big addition to the offense- DHB better be on his game or the kid will get get more time at his expense..)

Everyone of the Raider running backs(DMC, T Jones and M Goodson ) are well suited to run in the new offense. (DMC big run against the Jets was a zone blocking play. All of the Raiders Rb's are capable of takiing it to the house from anywhere , whether its a run or pass. (a defense doesn't want to see any of them running in space)

Even the inexperience Te's are going to put up numbers in this TE friendly system.

Raiders offense is going to be that good in 2012. Expect it to be a top five offense.

Bacillus Anthracis
07-27-2012, 02:47 PM
Raiders offense will be top five if they stay healthy. The Raiders been a top ten offense the last two years. ( so I don't understand why your lowering the bar - just silly)

What? Lowering the bar?

Here's the deal: New coaches, new system, players not drafted for the specific skillsets of the WCO and zone blocking. What about all of that inexperience don't you understand?

You seem to think that it's all gonna happen without a hitch. Here's some news; it won't. There are going to be problems and the odds are good we won't be top 5.

And Greg Knapp is our O-coordinator. He's sucked in that position with good talent to work with before. He's a good qb coach but his actual, factual record as an OC prior to now absolutely sucks. I don't hold anything against him from when Purple Drank was king; that co**sucker ruined careers in Oakland. But even outside of that Knapp's not an impressive hire. We had a good system and a good offensive coordinator in Al Saunders. Why did McKenzie not make Dennis Allen keep him? Beats the hell outta me.

Speaking of Dennis Allen, who the hell is he? Seriously. He's a first time HC and is a defensive minded person. Fine... The Donk's D sucked early on, played lights out for a stretch, but then got its ass kicked in its final four or five games. And the guy who ran that defense is going to be our head coach? But he's a disciplinarian. At least there's that. Well hell, if that's all it took then why didn't we just hire R. Lee Ermey to come in and bust balls left and right?

You are right about the 0-line though. They'll be a bright spot. And the defense will be better. That may not be saying much though because it would have been difficult for them to be any worse than were last season.

If this season fails and we don't make the playoffs, it'll be the fault of Reggie McKenzie and the coaching staff. With a half-assed defense we would have ran away with the division last year. That's the only thing that needed to be fixed. Fix the D, keep the O and special teams = playoffs.

But instead the entire team got an overhaul. That's a lot of adjusting and it doesn't point to a top 5 offense. Maybe they'll buck the odds and it will all come together. You never know. And maybe a player who sat out for a year with broken neck that took multiple surgeries to fix will immediately return to form and take an otherwise bad team to the Superbowl.

But in reality, both are bad bets.

And finally...


Now the brillance OF Reggie MCkenzie ...

Let's just wait and see how this season goes before calling him brilliant. We haven't had the chance to see a single move that he's made happen in reality. As far as I'm concerned he's done some really stupid ****, namely not keeping Al Saunders as OC. But time will tell.

Raider9175
07-27-2012, 07:37 PM
What? Lowering the bar?

Here's the deal: New coaches, new system, players not drafted for the specific skillsets of the WCO and zone blocking. What about all of that inexperience don't you understand?

You seem to think that it's all gonna happen without a hitch. Here's some news; it won't. There are going to be problems and the odds are good we won't be top 5.

And Greg Knapp is our O-coordinator. He's sucked in that position with good talent to work with before. He's a good qb coach but his actual, factual record as an OC prior to now absolutely sucks. I don't hold anything against him from when Purple Drank was king; that co**sucker ruined careers in Oakland. But even outside of that Knapp's not an impressive hire. We had a good system and a good offensive coordinator in Al Saunders. Why did McKenzie not make Dennis Allen keep him? Beats the hell outta me.

Speaking of Dennis Allen, who the hell is he? Seriously. He's a first time HC and is a defensive minded person. Fine... The Donk's D sucked early on, played lights out for a stretch, but then got its ass kicked in its final four or five games. And the guy who ran that defense is going to be our head coach? But he's a disciplinarian. At least there's that. Well hell, if that's all it took then why didn't we just hire R. Lee Ermey to come in and bust balls left and right?

You are right about the 0-line though. They'll be a bright spot. And the defense will be better. That may not be saying much though because it would have been difficult for them to be any worse than were last season.

If this season fails and we don't make the playoffs, it'll be the fault of Reggie McKenzie and the coaching staff. With a half-assed defense we would have ran away with the division last year. That's the only thing that needed to be fixed. Fix the D, keep the O and special teams = playoffs.

But instead the entire team got an overhaul. That's a lot of adjusting and it doesn't point to a top 5 offense. Maybe they'll buck the odds and it will all come together. You never know. And maybe a player who sat out for a year with broken neck that took multiple surgeries to fix will immediately return to form and take an otherwise bad team to the Superbowl.

But in reality, both are bad bets.

And finally...




Let's just wait and see how this season goes before calling him brilliant. We haven't had the chance to see a single move that he's made happen in reality. As far as I'm concerned he's done some really stupid ****, namely not keeping Al Saunders as OC. But time will tell.


You do know Al saunders was OC in name only, as Hue Jackson called the plays. He will be doing the same thing for the Raiders just won't have the bogus OC title.

Okay I was ready to give you a long post where your wrong on the oline. I wrote it and saw you said you agree it will be a bright spot.

ONly thing that could have derailed the offense would be the oline. IF you think it will be good than I really don't know where your going.(every great offense starts upfront on the oline) That oline is good there is no way this offense not top five. Raiders have just too much explosive weapons on offense.

All three of the Raiders Rb's are perfect fits for this zone blocking scheme. Only thing that every stopped DMc in this scheme was turf toe. That hasn't been a problem since he wears those special shoes. Raiders are going to run the football a lot. (do you disagree there) Should be right there near the top as the top rushing team in 2012.

Can all three of the RB catch the football. Mike Goodson they say is even a Better receiver than DMC. Raiders are going to use DMC and M Goodson as WR moving one of them outside to get favorable mismatches. Do you not understand those are safe passes that have a chance to go a long way.

Now throw in Marcel Reece tell me when has Greg Knapp ever had a weapon like him at FB. (Justin Griffith - no way) He another mismatch defense have to account for.

NOw You have a very good running game+ Passes to the TE and Rbs = What does that do to the defense. They start to creep up to defend that. When that happens . That's when you will see the Raiders going deep to their Wr's .

What your having a hard time understanding is not every Wco offense is the same. You have to play to your strengths/ personnel . Yes Raiders offense will be similar to Texans but they will be doing things the Texans don't do(can't)

The other Wr Raiders/ Mckenzie brought in aren't WCO offense type of Wr's. (Juron Criner, Rod Streatew and Derek carrier) .

The Raiders are going as far as their offense takes them. They are top five offense they will be a playoff team despite what the defense does.(See Saints, Patriots and Packers)
No one expects the defense to be top ten. They don't have to. That defense just becomes average, and this team going pretty far in the playoffs.

broncosteven
07-27-2012, 07:53 PM
...

But if it does come together; If the wideouts know their assignments and can get off the ball, and can run their routes precisely, we'll be tough to stop. And IF McFadden is healthy for most games, lookout.

and if your QB doesn't throw more Int's than TD's

oubronco
07-27-2012, 07:55 PM
http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/m/ma7pTjHHSm5tZ_TInRrSgmg/140.jpg

Bob's your Information Minister
07-27-2012, 10:41 PM
Break this down, bitches.

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2012/07/27/20/30/1e99fR.SlMa.81.jpeg

Stuck in Cali
07-27-2012, 11:06 PM
Break this down, b****es.

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2012/07/27/20/30/1e99fR.SlMa.81.jpeg

Um one person trying to run, while the others stand around?

Bacchus
07-27-2012, 11:15 PM
Break this down, b****es.

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2012/07/27/20/30/1e99fR.SlMa.81.jpeg

wow, Denver is doomed, how will they ever compete with such a team?

http://broncotalk.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/610x3.jpg

oh, nevermind

lonestar
07-27-2012, 11:34 PM
Bacillus Anthracis
...

But if it does come together; If the wideouts know their assignments and can get off the ball, and can run their routes precisely, we'll be tough to stop. And IF McFadden is healthy for most games, lookout.

wow lots of IFs for the coming year.. Just on Offense..

Wonder what the D looks like..

boltaneer
07-28-2012, 12:49 AM
wow lots of IFs for the coming year.. Just on Offense..

Wonder what the D looks like..

Three IFs and you're out.

Raider9175
07-28-2012, 08:17 AM
Break this down, b****es.

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2012/07/27/20/30/1e99fR.SlMa.81.jpeg

IF one of those tackles got one finger on Jamaal Charles you know he was going down. What a Pusski .

oubronco
07-28-2012, 09:10 AM
Three IFs and you're out.

If a bird flew upside down it would shyt on itself

NUB
07-28-2012, 01:04 PM
I think schedules are going to be the biggest influence in the upcoming season. Denver's first half of the season is bonkers. It looks like someone took up a challenge to devise the most difficult schedule possible and that's what they ended up with.

Bacillus Anthracis
07-29-2012, 09:01 AM
wow lots of IFs for the coming year.. Just on Offense.

That was the point--there are a lot of ifs. Way too many to predict a top 5 offense.

Someone else mentioned TD to Interceptio ratio, which is a not very insightful point. Palmer threw 6 in his first two games after having been with the team all of 10 days. Last season, everything bad that Palmer did was to be expected and everything good was just a bonus. It was a warmup for the 2012 season. That was assuming we'd have the same system in place, but now we don't.

We have a lot of question going into the season; more than were necessary if we'd simply kept the same offensive system in place. So we'll see what happens.

But going back to "ifs", every team has them. Peyton Manning is a huge if for you guys. If he isn't back to form immediately you guys could very well start the season 0-5. And if that happens the signing will have been a huge failure and you'll be watching a lot of college football, trying to identify where you'll fall in the draft and if that will good (bad) enough to try and find your next franchise quarterback.

Tombstone RJ
07-29-2012, 09:21 AM
Injuries are always the wild card, for any time in the NFL. The really good teams still win despite injuries (Packers a few years ago when they won the SB and the Pats back in 2003, I think? they had hella injuries). However, winning when your starting QB goes down is tough.

Tombstone RJ
07-29-2012, 11:20 AM
Break this down, b****es.

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2012/07/27/20/30/1e99fR.SlMa.81.jpeg

um, I guess your boy still thinks he's in college? It's probably because he knows he's playing for team who's standards are less that those of the University of Texas. In fact, you might be able to make the Longhorns a pro team and demote the chefs to D1 football, or maybe DII NAIA for them to be competitive.

bowtown
07-29-2012, 11:55 AM
Break this down, b****es.

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2012/07/27/20/30/1e99fR.SlMa.81.jpeg

"Hai Guys, look how flexible my two knee braces are."

KCStud
07-29-2012, 03:33 PM
Kent Babb | Crennel can win, depending on what he’s learned from losses
BY KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

Kent Babb | Crennel can win, depending on what he’s learned from losses

ST. JOSEPH -- He’s backed into a corner now, behind the curtain you see on television, and the Chiefs’ coach is talking about what it’s like when the cameras are off and the charm is gone and his patience has rotted.

Romeo Crennel smiles as he says it. He smiles so often. That salt-and-pepper mustache stretches across his face, and even now, when he’s talking about getting mad and the things that get him there, and boy, you should see it when it happens. And it’s such a strange image that it’s not just Crennel who’s smiling.

“Boom,” Crennel says. “This mild-mannered guy becomes a different animal.”

This jolly, grandfatherly 65-year-old is the Chiefs’ third coach in five seasons, and if you think about it, he probably faces more pressure than either of his predecessors. For the first time in his career, and indeed a rarity in his profession, Crennel inherited not a mess but a gift from his fired predecessor. This is a talented team that doesn’t need building or, really, much maintenance. It needs a man who will let it grow naturally; who’ll just keep the car from flying off the road.

Crennel is the opposite of Todd Haley, whose unusual mood swings and erratic behavior were as much responsible for getting him fired last December as the Chiefs’ 5-8 record. He was unorthodox and creative, and those things are cool and innovative unless they fail. Haley’s way worked for a while, and then it just stopped being effective. The problem was that he was raving so often, the townspeople became numb to his cries of wolf.

Crennel doesn’t get consumed by emotion. And that’s a good thing for this year’s Chiefs. Expectations have been lifted for a team with talent at most every position. The playoffs are a realistic possibility, and a defense Crennel oversaw in two years as coordinator has a chance to emerge as one of the league’s best.

And if those things happen, we will not trace it back to anything Crennel did in training camp, the preseason or once the games begin to count. It will be what he didn’t do that we’ll remember — that this even-tempered coach did his thing and just didn’t screw it up.

This time last year, Haley began implementing an idea. It was different, and he asked his assistant coaches to bear with him. Because players had missed offseason practices amid the NFL lockout, Haley decided to go easy on them during training camp and allow them to ease into regular-season conditioning.

Players sweated and ran, but they did neither as much as they had in previous Chiefs camps. The team went forward, and if coaches and players disagreed with Haley’s idea, no one said anything. Even now, Crennel smiles when asked whether he ever considered approaching his boss and asking whether he was sure he wanted to travel the path.

“Last year is last year,” he says, and that grin makes me think that Crennel was a good soldier a year ago but that, yes, he would’ve done things differently.

Of course, we know how that movie actually ended: Three key players suffered season-ending injuries, quarterback Matt Cassel couldn’t establish rhythm, and the Chiefs just looked bad in a winless preseason and an 0-3 start to the regular season.

Football is a revisionist history kind of game. Coaches try unusual things, and if they work, those coaches are geniuses. If they don’t, the same men are stooges who are late for the unemployment line. Coloring outside the lines brings additional attention, and when it doesn’t work often enough, the football gods are unkind. Few coaches attempted more fourth-down conversions, trick plays and unusual motivational tactics than Haley in his nearly three seasons. In 2010, maybe his aggressive approach helped the Chiefs go 10-6 and win the AFC West. A year later, it was difficult to not blame the same mindset for the team’s failings.

When it came time to find Haley’s replacement, the Chiefs found a steady and experienced man with an office in the same building.

After one practice last week, it was clear that Camp Romeo won’t contain the same wild story lines as last year’s experience. Crennel is going back to what works, what’s proven, what he knows. He says he wants the team to be organized, and he wants players to develop chemistry. And he wants them to work. That’s not groundbreaking or even all that interesting. But it is proven.

His face dripping sweat, Pro Bowl linebacker Derrick Johnson says a little custom is just what these Chiefs need.

“He believes in what he believes in,” Johnson says. “He’s an old-school guy, and he’s definitely going to put the hammer down on us.”

So here’s the undeniable fact about Romeo Crennel: His first experience as an NFL head coach was his own failure. The Cleveland Browns were 24-40 in his four seasons, and maybe the reasons were beyond Crennel’s control.

The Browns’ general manager at the time, Phil Savage, drafted poorly and signed free agents that didn’t make an impact. Injuries to key players piled up at an almost laughable rate. Crennel’s teams had losing records in three of those seasons, and after a 4-12 finish, he was fired.

Still, some things were remembered fondly.

“I’ve never seen a team play harder at the end of a season that wasn’t going well,” says Chiefs backup quarterback Brady Quinn, who played for Crennel in Cleveland.

That’s nice and all, but as Haley learned last year, it doesn’t matter the reasons if the wins aren’t coming. The thing you can’t deny about Crennel is that he has the respect and admiration of his team. There’s no starting over, no getting-to-know-you period that so many other first-year coaches endure. The Chiefs know Crennel, and he knows the Chiefs, but with that comes an expectation that the team will succeed immediately. If that doesn’t happen, outsiders will begin whispering that Crennel goes too easy on his players; that he’s too much of a players’ coach and oversees a team that lacks discipline.

Other than the rare occasions he bares his teeth to players, Crennel says he’s going to try it his easygoing way.

“You have to be who you are,” he says.

Of what we know about Crennel, though, here’s what remains a mystery: how much he actually learned from his time in Cleveland. If this is truly going to work, he should now know that, sure, the GM has final say on draft picks, but the head coach has to build teams to fit his vision.

Crennel says he and Scott Pioli have a good relationship, and maybe Pioli even deferred to Crennel in the first round of this year’s draft, when the Chiefs drafted nose tackle Dontari Poe at No. 11 overall. It was a gamble, the kind Pioli doesn’t usually feel comfortable making, but Crennel is a former defensive-line coach who thinks the front seven is the nerve center of an elite team.

He also should have learned from Haley’s mistakes the last two years. In the NFL, gimmicks should be used in moderation, and really, coaches should turn to them only to shake up a team that lacks talent. The Chiefs no longer have that problem, and they no longer have a coach who’ll feel the need to leave his fingerprint on each game, just to prove that he deserves to wear the headset.

Crennel’s responsibilities in training camp and beyond are to keep things simple, to keep players together, to let them do what they do. If he has to do more than that, bad things will have happened. If he’s able to sit back, keep his voice low and maybe even smile, then we’ll know that Crennel has his job figured out — and that he understands precisely what this year’s team needs.

To reach Kent Babb, call 816-234-4386, send email to kbabb@kcstar.com or follow him at twitter.com/kentbabb. For previous columns, go to KansasCity.com.


Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/07/28/3729161/kent-babb-crennel-can-win-depending.html#storylink=cpy



Interesting when you actually take a coaches surroundings in part of his coaching situation. Romeo was dealt a very poor hand in Cleveland. The fact he had a winning season is astonishing in itself.

DBroncos4life
07-29-2012, 03:41 PM
Kent Babb | Crennel can win, depending on what he’s learned from losses
BY KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

Kent Babb | Crennel can win, depending on what he’s learned from losses

ST. JOSEPH -- He’s backed into a corner now, behind the curtain you see on television, and the Chiefs’ coach is talking about what it’s like when the cameras are off and the charm is gone and his patience has rotted.

Romeo Crennel smiles as he says it. He smiles so often. That salt-and-pepper mustache stretches across his face, and even now, when he’s talking about getting mad and the things that get him there, and boy, you should see it when it happens. And it’s such a strange image that it’s not just Crennel who’s smiling.

“Boom,” Crennel says. “This mild-mannered guy becomes a different animal.”

This jolly, grandfatherly 65-year-old is the Chiefs’ third coach in five seasons, and if you think about it, he probably faces more pressure than either of his predecessors. For the first time in his career, and indeed a rarity in his profession, Crennel inherited not a mess but a gift from his fired predecessor. This is a talented team that doesn’t need building or, really, much maintenance. It needs a man who will let it grow naturally; who’ll just keep the car from flying off the road.

Crennel is the opposite of Todd Haley, whose unusual mood swings and erratic behavior were as much responsible for getting him fired last December as the Chiefs’ 5-8 record. He was unorthodox and creative, and those things are cool and innovative unless they fail. Haley’s way worked for a while, and then it just stopped being effective. The problem was that he was raving so often, the townspeople became numb to his cries of wolf.

Crennel doesn’t get consumed by emotion. And that’s a good thing for this year’s Chiefs. Expectations have been lifted for a team with talent at most every position. The playoffs are a realistic possibility, and a defense Crennel oversaw in two years as coordinator has a chance to emerge as one of the league’s best.

And if those things happen, we will not trace it back to anything Crennel did in training camp, the preseason or once the games begin to count. It will be what he didn’t do that we’ll remember — that this even-tempered coach did his thing and just didn’t screw it up.

This time last year, Haley began implementing an idea. It was different, and he asked his assistant coaches to bear with him. Because players had missed offseason practices amid the NFL lockout, Haley decided to go easy on them during training camp and allow them to ease into regular-season conditioning.

Players sweated and ran, but they did neither as much as they had in previous Chiefs camps. The team went forward, and if coaches and players disagreed with Haley’s idea, no one said anything. Even now, Crennel smiles when asked whether he ever considered approaching his boss and asking whether he was sure he wanted to travel the path.

“Last year is last year,” he says, and that grin makes me think that Crennel was a good soldier a year ago but that, yes, he would’ve done things differently.

Of course, we know how that movie actually ended: Three key players suffered season-ending injuries, quarterback Matt Cassel couldn’t establish rhythm, and the Chiefs just looked bad in a winless preseason and an 0-3 start to the regular season.

Football is a revisionist history kind of game. Coaches try unusual things, and if they work, those coaches are geniuses. If they don’t, the same men are stooges who are late for the unemployment line. Coloring outside the lines brings additional attention, and when it doesn’t work often enough, the football gods are unkind. Few coaches attempted more fourth-down conversions, trick plays and unusual motivational tactics than Haley in his nearly three seasons. In 2010, maybe his aggressive approach helped the Chiefs go 10-6 and win the AFC West. A year later, it was difficult to not blame the same mindset for the team’s failings.

When it came time to find Haley’s replacement, the Chiefs found a steady and experienced man with an office in the same building.

After one practice last week, it was clear that Camp Romeo won’t contain the same wild story lines as last year’s experience. Crennel is going back to what works, what’s proven, what he knows. He says he wants the team to be organized, and he wants players to develop chemistry. And he wants them to work. That’s not groundbreaking or even all that interesting. But it is proven.

His face dripping sweat, Pro Bowl linebacker Derrick Johnson says a little custom is just what these Chiefs need.

“He believes in what he believes in,” Johnson says. “He’s an old-school guy, and he’s definitely going to put the hammer down on us.”

So here’s the undeniable fact about Romeo Crennel: His first experience as an NFL head coach was his own failure. The Cleveland Browns were 24-40 in his four seasons, and maybe the reasons were beyond Crennel’s control.

The Browns’ general manager at the time, Phil Savage, drafted poorly and signed free agents that didn’t make an impact. Injuries to key players piled up at an almost laughable rate. Crennel’s teams had losing records in three of those seasons, and after a 4-12 finish, he was fired.

Still, some things were remembered fondly.

“I’ve never seen a team play harder at the end of a season that wasn’t going well,” says Chiefs backup quarterback Brady Quinn, who played for Crennel in Cleveland.

That’s nice and all, but as Haley learned last year, it doesn’t matter the reasons if the wins aren’t coming. The thing you can’t deny about Crennel is that he has the respect and admiration of his team. There’s no starting over, no getting-to-know-you period that so many other first-year coaches endure. The Chiefs know Crennel, and he knows the Chiefs, but with that comes an expectation that the team will succeed immediately. If that doesn’t happen, outsiders will begin whispering that Crennel goes too easy on his players; that he’s too much of a players’ coach and oversees a team that lacks discipline.

Other than the rare occasions he bares his teeth to players, Crennel says he’s going to try it his easygoing way.

“You have to be who you are,” he says.

Of what we know about Crennel, though, here’s what remains a mystery: how much he actually learned from his time in Cleveland. If this is truly going to work, he should now know that, sure, the GM has final say on draft picks, but the head coach has to build teams to fit his vision.

Crennel says he and Scott Pioli have a good relationship, and maybe Pioli even deferred to Crennel in the first round of this year’s draft, when the Chiefs drafted nose tackle Dontari Poe at No. 11 overall. It was a gamble, the kind Pioli doesn’t usually feel comfortable making, but Crennel is a former defensive-line coach who thinks the front seven is the nerve center of an elite team.

He also should have learned from Haley’s mistakes the last two years. In the NFL, gimmicks should be used in moderation, and really, coaches should turn to them only to shake up a team that lacks talent. The Chiefs no longer have that problem, and they no longer have a coach who’ll feel the need to leave his fingerprint on each game, just to prove that he deserves to wear the headset.

Crennel’s responsibilities in training camp and beyond are to keep things simple, to keep players together, to let them do what they do. If he has to do more than that, bad things will have happened. If he’s able to sit back, keep his voice low and maybe even smile, then we’ll know that Crennel has his job figured out — and that he understands precisely what this year’s team needs.

To reach Kent Babb, call 816-234-4386, send email to kbabb@kcstar.com or follow him at twitter.com/kentbabb. For previous columns, go to KansasCity.com.


Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/07/28/3729161/kent-babb-crennel-can-win-depending.html#storylink=cpy



Interesting when you actually take a coaches surroundings in part of his coaching situation. Romeo was dealt a very poor hand in Cleveland. The fact he had a winning season is astonishing in itself.

lol how many years should it take a coach to get players around him that are worth a ****?

Stuck in Cali
07-29-2012, 04:12 PM
Kent Babb | Crennel can win, depending on what he’s learned from losses
BY KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

Kent Babb | Crennel can win, depending on what he’s learned from losses

ST. JOSEPH -- He’s backed into a corner now, behind the curtain you see on television, and the Chiefs’ coach is talking about what it’s like when the cameras are off and the charm is gone and his patience has rotted.

Romeo Crennel smiles as he says it. He smiles so often. That salt-and-pepper mustache stretches across his face, and even now, when he’s talking about getting mad and the things that get him there, and boy, you should see it when it happens. And it’s such a strange image that it’s not just Crennel who’s smiling.

“Boom,” Crennel says. “This mild-mannered guy becomes a different animal.”

This jolly, grandfatherly 65-year-old is the Chiefs’ third coach in five seasons, and if you think about it, he probably faces more pressure than either of his predecessors. For the first time in his career, and indeed a rarity in his profession, Crennel inherited not a mess but a gift from his fired predecessor. This is a talented team that doesn’t need building or, really, much maintenance. It needs a man who will let it grow naturally; who’ll just keep the car from flying off the road.

Crennel is the opposite of Todd Haley, whose unusual mood swings and erratic behavior were as much responsible for getting him fired last December as the Chiefs’ 5-8 record. He was unorthodox and creative, and those things are cool and innovative unless they fail. Haley’s way worked for a while, and then it just stopped being effective. The problem was that he was raving so often, the townspeople became numb to his cries of wolf.

Crennel doesn’t get consumed by emotion. And that’s a good thing for this year’s Chiefs. Expectations have been lifted for a team with talent at most every position. The playoffs are a realistic possibility, and a defense Crennel oversaw in two years as coordinator has a chance to emerge as one of the league’s best.

And if those things happen, we will not trace it back to anything Crennel did in training camp, the preseason or once the games begin to count. It will be what he didn’t do that we’ll remember — that this even-tempered coach did his thing and just didn’t screw it up.

This time last year, Haley began implementing an idea. It was different, and he asked his assistant coaches to bear with him. Because players had missed offseason practices amid the NFL lockout, Haley decided to go easy on them during training camp and allow them to ease into regular-season conditioning.

Players sweated and ran, but they did neither as much as they had in previous Chiefs camps. The team went forward, and if coaches and players disagreed with Haley’s idea, no one said anything. Even now, Crennel smiles when asked whether he ever considered approaching his boss and asking whether he was sure he wanted to travel the path.

“Last year is last year,” he says, and that grin makes me think that Crennel was a good soldier a year ago but that, yes, he would’ve done things differently.

Of course, we know how that movie actually ended: Three key players suffered season-ending injuries, quarterback Matt Cassel couldn’t establish rhythm, and the Chiefs just looked bad in a winless preseason and an 0-3 start to the regular season.

Football is a revisionist history kind of game. Coaches try unusual things, and if they work, those coaches are geniuses. If they don’t, the same men are stooges who are late for the unemployment line. Coloring outside the lines brings additional attention, and when it doesn’t work often enough, the football gods are unkind. Few coaches attempted more fourth-down conversions, trick plays and unusual motivational tactics than Haley in his nearly three seasons. In 2010, maybe his aggressive approach helped the Chiefs go 10-6 and win the AFC West. A year later, it was difficult to not blame the same mindset for the team’s failings.

When it came time to find Haley’s replacement, the Chiefs found a steady and experienced man with an office in the same building.

After one practice last week, it was clear that Camp Romeo won’t contain the same wild story lines as last year’s experience. Crennel is going back to what works, what’s proven, what he knows. He says he wants the team to be organized, and he wants players to develop chemistry. And he wants them to work. That’s not groundbreaking or even all that interesting. But it is proven.

His face dripping sweat, Pro Bowl linebacker Derrick Johnson says a little custom is just what these Chiefs need.

“He believes in what he believes in,” Johnson says. “He’s an old-school guy, and he’s definitely going to put the hammer down on us.”

So here’s the undeniable fact about Romeo Crennel: His first experience as an NFL head coach was his own failure. The Cleveland Browns were 24-40 in his four seasons, and maybe the reasons were beyond Crennel’s control.

The Browns’ general manager at the time, Phil Savage, drafted poorly and signed free agents that didn’t make an impact. Injuries to key players piled up at an almost laughable rate. Crennel’s teams had losing records in three of those seasons, and after a 4-12 finish, he was fired.

Still, some things were remembered fondly.

“I’ve never seen a team play harder at the end of a season that wasn’t going well,” says Chiefs backup quarterback Brady Quinn, who played for Crennel in Cleveland.

That’s nice and all, but as Haley learned last year, it doesn’t matter the reasons if the wins aren’t coming. The thing you can’t deny about Crennel is that he has the respect and admiration of his team. There’s no starting over, no getting-to-know-you period that so many other first-year coaches endure. The Chiefs know Crennel, and he knows the Chiefs, but with that comes an expectation that the team will succeed immediately. If that doesn’t happen, outsiders will begin whispering that Crennel goes too easy on his players; that he’s too much of a players’ coach and oversees a team that lacks discipline.

Other than the rare occasions he bares his teeth to players, Crennel says he’s going to try it his easygoing way.

“You have to be who you are,” he says.

Of what we know about Crennel, though, here’s what remains a mystery: how much he actually learned from his time in Cleveland. If this is truly going to work, he should now know that, sure, the GM has final say on draft picks, but the head coach has to build teams to fit his vision.

Crennel says he and Scott Pioli have a good relationship, and maybe Pioli even deferred to Crennel in the first round of this year’s draft, when the Chiefs drafted nose tackle Dontari Poe at No. 11 overall. It was a gamble, the kind Pioli doesn’t usually feel comfortable making, but Crennel is a former defensive-line coach who thinks the front seven is the nerve center of an elite team.

He also should have learned from Haley’s mistakes the last two years. In the NFL, gimmicks should be used in moderation, and really, coaches should turn to them only to shake up a team that lacks talent. The Chiefs no longer have that problem, and they no longer have a coach who’ll feel the need to leave his fingerprint on each game, just to prove that he deserves to wear the headset.

Crennel’s responsibilities in training camp and beyond are to keep things simple, to keep players together, to let them do what they do. If he has to do more than that, bad things will have happened. If he’s able to sit back, keep his voice low and maybe even smile, then we’ll know that Crennel has his job figured out — and that he understands precisely what this year’s team needs.

To reach Kent Babb, call 816-234-4386, send email to kbabb@kcstar.com or follow him at twitter.com/kentbabb. For previous columns, go to KansasCity.com.


Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/07/28/3729161/kent-babb-crennel-can-win-depending.html#storylink=cpy



Interesting when you actually take a coaches surroundings in part of his coaching situation. Romeo was dealt a very poor hand in Cleveland. The fact he had a winning season is astonishing in itself.

Nice fluff article. Let's wait till a injury occurs so you can blame the sucking on that, rather than your coach or teams performance.

KCStud
07-29-2012, 06:25 PM
lol how many years should it take a coach to get players around him that are worth a ****?

Considering Braylon Edwards, Kamerion Wimbley, D'Qwell Jackson turned out to be good players.

KCStud
07-29-2012, 06:26 PM
Nice fluff article. Let's wait till a injury occurs so you can blame the sucking on that, rather than your coach or teams performance.

If your QB got hurt this year you'd be doing the same damn thing. Quit acting like a pussy and admit it. Bitch.

boltaneer
07-29-2012, 06:39 PM
Interesting when you actually take a coaches surroundings in part of his coaching situation. Romeo was dealt a very poor hand in Cleveland. The fact he had a winning season is astonishing in itself.

Don't even start trying to push this crap down anyone's throat here when you and other Chief fans destroyed Herm Edwards at every chance.

You want to talk about coaches dealt a poor hand, look no further than Herm and he pulled off a winning season as well. And those Chief teams had less talent than some Division II football teams.

And that 2007 Browns team was a total aberration. Anderson, Winslow and Edwards, all one hit wonders, blossomed in the same year and pretty much never to be heard from again. And Jamal Lewis came out of nowhere to have his best season since rushing for 2k back in the early 2000s.

E_Rox
07-29-2012, 06:44 PM
I was wondering the same thing. Very poor hand, but yet quickly points out something contrary, seems like the appropriate answer from the Chef side

Stuck in Cali
07-29-2012, 06:50 PM
If your QB got hurt this year you'd be doing the same damn thing. Quit acting like a p***Y and admit it. b****.

Wow, you sure do like calling people names, does that make you feel good?

I have never used a injury as an excuse, cause they are part of the game.

E_Rox
07-29-2012, 06:52 PM
Break this down, b****es.

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2012/07/27/20/30/1e99fR.SlMa.81.jpeg

Looks like a running back protecting an ACL injury that will lead to a hamstring injury because of hesitation, concern and not practicing at full speed long enough

broncocalijohn
07-29-2012, 06:55 PM
If your QB got hurt this year you'd be doing the same damn thing. Quit acting like a p***Y and admit it. b****.

Dude, if your QB got hurt it would help your team. We are talking about positions beside QB. DOnt be a brick especially when your injuries was not QB related.

DENVERDUI55
07-29-2012, 07:03 PM
Wow, you sure do like calling people names, does that make you feel good?

I have never used a injury as an excuse, cause they are part of the game.

That's because he has nothing else other than stats and if he is refuted he goes to defense mechanism to name calling.

DBroncos4life
07-29-2012, 07:05 PM
Considering Braylon Edwards, Kamerion Wimbley, D'Qwell Jackson turned out to be good players.

Edwards Hilarious! He's not even on a team!

lonestar
07-29-2012, 07:27 PM
Don't even start trying to push this crap down anyone's throat here when you and other Chief fans destroyed Herm Edwards at every chance.

You want to talk about coaches dealt a poor hand, look no further than Herm and he pulled off a winning season as well. And those Chief teams had less talent than some Division II football teams.

And that 2007 Browns team was a total aberration. Anderson, Winslow and Edwards, all one hit wonders, blossomed in the same year and pretty much never to be heard from again. And Jamal Lewis came out of nowhere to have his best season since rushing for 2k back in the early 2000s.

of course he got near 300 of it in one game against us.. set an NFL record..

Cito Pelon
07-29-2012, 09:04 PM
AFCW fans arguing about who sucks worse. That's pathetic. We all have sucked since Oakland won an AFC title 10 years ago. What, three playoff wins among all four teams since 2002? Two by the Broncos, one by SD, zero by KC, zero by OAK.

Former AFCW opponent the Seattle Seahawks have won FIVE playoff games since 2005.

boltaneer
07-29-2012, 09:20 PM
AFCW fans arguing about who sucks worse. That's pathetic. We all have sucked since Oakland won an AFC title 10 years ago. What, three playoff wins among all four teams since 2002? Two by the Broncos, one by SD, zero by KC, zero by OAK.

Former AFCW opponent the Seattle Seahawks have won FIVE playoff games since 2005.

Actually the Chargers have won three during that time so the AFC West is as good as Seattle. :P

DENVERDUI55
07-29-2012, 09:23 PM
of course he got near 300 of it in one game against us.. set an NFL record..
Corey Dillion set it against us. Lewis did his against Cleveland.

lonestar
07-29-2012, 09:27 PM
Corey Dillion set it against us. Lewis did his against Cleveland.

pretty sure he also had some strong games against us. maybe not 300 but I seem to remember he got his fair share against our gumby defense..

KCStud
07-29-2012, 09:57 PM
Don't even start trying to push this crap down anyone's throat here when you and other Chief fans destroyed Herm Edwards at every chance.

You want to talk about coaches dealt a poor hand, look no further than Herm and he pulled off a winning season as well. And those Chief teams had less talent than some Division II football teams.

And that 2007 Browns team was a total aberration. Anderson, Winslow and Edwards, all one hit wonders, blossomed in the same year and pretty much never to be heard from again. And Jamal Lewis came out of nowhere to have his best season since rushing for 2k back in the early 2000s.

Herm didn't have any favors due to Vermiel not drafting for the future.

I thought Herm was a great talent evaluator, but his coaching was below average. Like Romeo, he had very little, if any, developed talent when he took over. His draft picks were above average, but it took time to develop them. Time both didn't have.

KCStud
07-29-2012, 09:59 PM
Edwards Hilarious! He's not even on a team!

Edwards has been cut because of his injury problems, not because of his lack of talent, dumbass Hilarious!

KCStud
07-29-2012, 10:00 PM
Dude, if your QB got hurt it would help your team. We are talking about positions beside QB. DOnt be a brick especially when your injuries was not QB related.

Tyler Palko was our QB for a month. And we lost our best offensive and defensive players. Guess that doesn't count.

boltaneer
07-29-2012, 10:47 PM
I thought Herm was a great talent evaluator, but his coaching was below average.

And you still can't resist another slam on Herm.

Brodie Croyle
Damon Huard
Tyler Thigpen

Belichick would have gotten fired with that bunch.

LongDongJohnson
07-29-2012, 11:05 PM
pretty sure he also had some strong games against us. maybe not 300 but I seem to remember he got his fair share against our gumby defense..

You remember wrong.

He only had 2 good games against us in his entire career. One in the playoffs in 2000 and 2003 ravens game.

Most he ever put up on us was 134 yards on 32 carries. That was the 2003 game.

lonestar
07-29-2012, 11:06 PM
You remember wrong.

He only had 2 good games against us in his entire career. One in the playoffs in 2000 and 2003 ravens game.

Most he ever put up on us was 134 yards on 32 carries. That was the 2003 game.

Well I stand corrected thanks..

LongDongJohnson
07-29-2012, 11:25 PM
Well I stand corrected thanks..

no prob. Sorry if I came off like a jerk.

Cory Dillon did tear us a new a-hole in 2000 though with 278 yards which was a record at the time.
Damn 0-6 Bengals got their first win against us in that game. They had a very Tebow like performance against us with 14 passing yards and 407 rushing yards.

The guys that kicked our ass the last few games are in our very own division.
We need to watch out for:
Ryan Mathews
Darren McFadden

Both guys have had over 100 yards in their last 3 games against us. They dont even use condoms when they rape us in our ass.

KCStud
07-30-2012, 11:21 AM
And you still can't resist another slam on Herm.

Brodie Croyle
Damon Huard
Tyler Thigpen

Belichick would have gotten fired with that bunch.

Herm was a defensive coach. Definitely not his specialty to get QB's.

boltaneer
07-30-2012, 12:09 PM
Herm was a defensive coach. Definitely not his specialty to get QB's.

What kind of reply is this? What does this even have to do with my post? Even you can do better than that.

You said Herm was below average coach. I pointed out his quarterbacks he had to work with. You point out he's a defensive coach? He was never given even a below average quarterback. All of those guys STUNK.

Look at his tenure with the Jets. Playoffs 3 out of 5 years and a 5 and 2 record in the post season. I wouldn't call that below average at all.

The difference was that he had a good (not great) quarterback in Pennington there. Not the garbage he was left to die with in KC.

Now back to Romeo. He hasn't had much to work with in terms of QBs either (except for the one year with Anderson). Cassel, to his credit, continues to play above expectations but he's never shown that he can be a difference maker. I still can't believe the Chiefs continue to pass up drafting a replacement for him. They have a pretty good team all around but it's just being held back by the QB position.

Irish Stout
07-30-2012, 12:39 PM
If your QB got hurt this year you'd be doing the same damn thing. Quit acting like a p***Y and admit it. b****.


Do you feel like a big man now?

If our starting QB goes down, it would blow. However, you go on, you play the game and you know your only as good as your record. Whining about it after the fact to opposing fans is a futile and stupid thing to do. No one cares. Every year a team in the NFL gets hit hard with injuries. Its part of the game. Whining about it on our message board doesn't change the fact that your team sucked more than our team last year.

KCStud
07-30-2012, 04:21 PM
What kind of reply is this? What does this even have to do with my post? Even you can do better than that.

You said Herm was below average coach. I pointed out his quarterbacks he had to work with. You point out he's a defensive coach? He was never given even a below average quarterback. All of those guys STUNK.

Look at his tenure with the Jets. Playoffs 3 out of 5 years and a 5 and 2 record in the post season. I wouldn't call that below average at all.

The difference was that he had a good (not great) quarterback in Pennington there. Not the garbage he was left to die with in KC.

Now back to Romeo. He hasn't had much to work with in terms of QBs either (except for the one year with Anderson). Cassel, to his credit, continues to play above expectations but he's never shown that he can be a difference maker. I still can't believe the Chiefs continue to pass up drafting a replacement for him. They have a pretty good team all around but it's just being held back by the QB position.

You do realize that Herm was the one who drafted Croyle and brought in Thiggy, right? It was his own doing.

For the last time, tell me what franchise QB the Chiefs could have drafted?

And please dear God, don't say Stafford. There was no way in hell the Lions were giving up the rights to draft this kid. They loved him.

KCStud
07-30-2012, 04:44 PM
bolt, it really depends on who the coach is on the other side of the ball.

For example: in St. Louis Dick Vermeil did what he always did...have the offense rolling. They were one of the most explosive offenses in the league. Lovie Smith was a fantastic counterpart on the defensive side.

In Kansas City, Dick Vermeil had the worst defensive coordinator in NFL history (Greg Robinson) and it showed. The Chiefs were completely one sided.

Circumstance plays a huge role in the a player or coaches career.

This year, KC has Brian Daboll, who has proven he can put a very good running game on the field and create good mismatches. As for the passing game, it hasn't been that great for his offense's, but he's had Colt McCoy and Matt Moore.

I'm not saying Cassel is light years ahead of him, because he's not, but Cassel has proven in half of his years as a starter that he can lead teams to 10 wins if there's good talent around him.

We'll find out how good Daboll's coaching is for sure, but he's coming into a place where he actually has a lot of good players to use everywhere on offense, so who knows?

boltaneer
07-30-2012, 05:27 PM
You do realize that Herm was the one who drafted Croyle and brought in Thiggy, right? It was his own doing.

For the last time, tell me what franchise QB the Chiefs could have drafted?

And please dear God, don't say Stafford. There was no way in hell the Lions were giving up the rights to draft this kid. They loved him.

Herm was the GM?

Anyway, let's hear you rip Romeo for drafting Frye and Brady Quinn then.

DBroncos4life
07-30-2012, 05:35 PM
Edwards has been cut because of his injury problems, not because of his lack of talent, dumbass Hilarious!

Teams are really hot after him Hilarious! retard!!!! I'm sure a team or two as called him but, he drop his phone answering the call.

KCStud
07-30-2012, 05:38 PM
Herm was the GM?

Anyway, let's hear you rip Romeo for drafting Frye and Brady Quinn then.

Herm loved Croyle. He obviously had a big part in drafting him. Don't try to blame this one all on King Carl. They both had their part in it.

Why would Frye even matter? Derek Anderson played better than him and went on to the pro bowl, so Romeo was smart for going with him.

As for Quinn, there was no reason for Romeo to go with him in 2007. That was the year Andersen had them at 10-6. The next year (Romeo's last), he got action and broke his finger in the 2nd game he played, ultimately ending his season.

Quinn is a tricky QB. He's only played like 13 games and didn't have a real chance at QB.

I give Romeo credit for drafting a first round "franchise" (as most called him) QB. That's more than our organization has done. You can't have a franchise QB if you don't at least try, you know?

KCStud
07-30-2012, 05:39 PM
Teams are really hot after him Hilarious! retard!!!! I'm sure a team or two as called him but, he drop his phone answering the call.

Because of his recent injury history, like I stated. God you're dumb.

DBroncos4life
07-30-2012, 05:52 PM
Because of his recent injury history, like I stated. God you're dumb.

You do know two NFL teams has worked out Edwards this offseason right?

KCStud
07-30-2012, 06:35 PM
You do know two NFL teams has worked out Edwards this offseason right?

And why don't they want to sign him? Because he hasn't stayed on the field.

DBroncos4life
07-30-2012, 07:06 PM
And why don't they want to sign him? Because he hasn't stayed on the field.

Why don't they want to sign him? I'm guessing it's his ONE 1000 yard season in 7 years! He is healthy enough to work out with teams and sign yet only two teams are looking at this "elite" talent as you like to call him.

KCStud
07-30-2012, 07:13 PM
Why don't they want to sign him? I'm guessing it's his ONE 1000 yard season in 7 years! He is healthy enough to work out with teams and sign yet only two teams are looking at this "elite" talent as you like to call him.

Never said he was elite. Keep twisting those words.

DBroncos4life
07-30-2012, 07:16 PM
Never said he was elite. Keep twisting those words.

He isn't even good, he is average at best.

KCStud
07-30-2012, 07:22 PM
He isn't even good, he is average at best.

Yeah he sure is. He's never done anything above average to help his team Hilarious!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ERyHYF8xlWU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/w_z_6wQGMfI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Both huge plays that helped his team win in the playoffs. Just stop posting dude. :giggle:

DBroncos4life
07-30-2012, 07:45 PM
playoffs!<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NCcbkf8QRms" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
1:45 in.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Dia9XzZoOfQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Awesome player.

KCStud
07-30-2012, 09:15 PM
Yet he still helped his team win playoff games over Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. No big deal

By the way, who won both of those games? Hilarious!

DBroncos4life
07-30-2012, 09:58 PM
Yet he still helped his team win playoff games over Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. No big deal

By the way, who won both of those games? Hilarious!
Hey maybe you will get lucky and KC will pick him up to replace Bowe when he is traded. Seem like a wash on over hyped turds with bad hands!

Bacchus
07-30-2012, 10:03 PM
Yet he still helped his team win playoff games over Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. No big deal

By the way, who won both of those games? Hilarious!

Ok, Tom Brady is probably the best QB in NFL history on one of the best teams in NFL history. What are your points? Manning and the Colts weren't as good as Brady and the Pats? Wow, ingenious really.

So what is the Chiefs' record against the Pats and the Colts since Brady came into the League? I know Manning is something like 7-1 against KC.

KCStud
07-30-2012, 10:52 PM
Ok, Tom Brady is probably the best QB in NFL history on one of the best teams in NFL history. What are your points? Manning and the Colts weren't as good as Brady and the Pats? Wow, ingenious really.

So what is the Chiefs' record against the Pats and the Colts since Brady came into the League? I know Manning is something like 7-1 against KC.

KC 1 Tom Brady's knee 0

KCStud
07-30-2012, 10:52 PM
Hey maybe you will get lucky and KC will pick him up to replace Bowe when he is traded. Seem like a wash on over hyped turds with bad hands!

Bowe is better than anyone you trot on the field. Let's be real here homer.

DENVERDUI55
07-30-2012, 11:04 PM
KC 1 Tom Brady's knee 0

Joke is on KC! That allowed them to give Cassel the huge contract they gave him.

DBroncos4life
07-30-2012, 11:15 PM
Bowe is better than anyone you trot on the field. Let's be real here homer.

I bet we have two WRs with better stats then Bowe this year.

maher_tyler
07-30-2012, 11:16 PM
Bowe is better than anyone you trot on the field. Let's be real here homer.

Decker and DT have loads of potential. I think Bowe is a good WR when he wants to be. He hasn't been consistent enough to say he is anything more than above average.

KCStud
07-30-2012, 11:19 PM
I bet we have two WRs with better stats then Bowe this year.

Every year but 1 (Todd Haley not playing him) he's had 1,000 yard seasons with Matt Cassel, Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpen, and Damon Huard as his QB's. Bowe would rape teams if he had a top 10 QB.

DBroncos4life
07-30-2012, 11:21 PM
Every year but 1 (Todd Haley not playing him) he's had 1,000 yard seasons with Matt Cassel, Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpen, and Damon Huard as his QB's. Bowe would rape teams if he had a top 10 QB.

Maybe KC will trade him to a team with a top 10 QB then.

KCStud
07-30-2012, 11:39 PM
Maybe KC will trade him to a team with a top 10 QB then.

To Miami for their top 10 pick I'm all ears, since that's where he's wanting to go.

We'll see. Baldwin's looked great in OTA's and camp. I think he'll be a good receiver this year.

boltaneer
07-31-2012, 12:10 AM
I give Romeo credit for drafting a first round "franchise" (as most called him) QB. That's more than our organization has done. You can't have a franchise QB if you don't at least try, you know?

Yep. And Romeo won't get the chance to draft anyone in KC either. Seems they avoid drafting "franchise" QBs like the Broncos avoid drafting "franchise" DTs.

And I don't give Romeo credit for drafting Quinn. I'm sorry, but there was so many red flags about the guy's ability to be a NFL caliber quarterback.

Bacchus
07-31-2012, 05:06 AM
KC 1 Tom Brady's knee 0

What was Manning's record against KC to be clear?

Ingame
07-31-2012, 05:53 AM
I'd be more interested in how Manning has played against Crennels defenses, or how he played in 2010 against the AFC west?

E_Rox
07-31-2012, 07:11 AM
I'd be more interested in how Manning has played against Crennels defenses, or how he played in 2010 against the AFC west?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/1428/peyton-manning

Splits for the 2010 season. Fodder for the Bolts fan as they beat Indy, only West team to do so. Stats pretty pedestrian against West teams. Interesting about own division stats, much better than vs rest of AFC. Back half of season should be interesting

KCStud
07-31-2012, 12:07 PM
What was Manning's record against KC to be clear?

Why? Is Peyton still playing for the Colts?

KCStud
07-31-2012, 12:09 PM
Yep. And Romeo won't get the chance to draft anyone in KC either. Seems they avoid drafting "franchise" QBs like the Broncos avoid drafting "franchise" DTs.

And I don't give Romeo credit for drafting Quinn. I'm sorry, but there was so many red flags about the guy's ability to be a NFL caliber quarterback.

How do you know? If the Chiefs have a bad season, Cassel is the fall guy. Romeo and Daboll are first year coaches. Pioli isn't getting fired. And Clark obviously runs the team.

Pioli has done a great job building the team. What defines his time in KC will be who he replaces Matt Cassel with.

Bacillus Anthracis
07-31-2012, 12:27 PM
Why? Is Peyton still playing for the Colts?

No, but neither is Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clarke, Jeff Saturday, etc. The problem is, they don't play for the Broncos either. But similar to Manning, they all peaked years ago.

Irish Stout
07-31-2012, 01:01 PM
Why? Is Peyton still playing for the Colts?

I really am starting to like you. You have such a charming way of being an ignorant hypocrite. Remind me to send a charitable contribution to your sponsoring organization at the end of the year. Its really important for organizations like NASN and AAIDD to allow their clients the use of computers to grow and learn.

E_Rox
07-31-2012, 01:43 PM
Pioli has done a great job building the team. What defines his time in KC will be who he replaces Matt Cassel with.

Shouldn't the definition be that he hand selected Cassel to start his legacy in KC?

E_Rox
07-31-2012, 01:47 PM
Actually Pioli deserves more credit than what I have not shown in the past.


He did an admirable job playing Curly in the recent 3 Stooges movie.

KCStud
07-31-2012, 04:58 PM
Shouldn't the definition be that he hand selected Cassel to start his legacy in KC?

Cassel was the best option Pioli had in 2009 and a good QB to go through the building pains of building the team.

Starting a young QB on a 2-23 team would have ruined the QB's confidence ala David Carr.

DENVERDUI55
07-31-2012, 05:05 PM
Cassel was the best option Pioli had in 2009 and a good QB to go through the building pains of building the team.

Starting a young QB on a 2-23 team would have ruined the QB's confidence ala David Carr.

ALA John Elway, Eli/Peyton Manning, Troy Aikmen, Steve Young, Matt Safford, Terry Bradshaw and the list goes on. That is a pathetic excuse Carr just wasn't what he was thought to be.

KCStud
07-31-2012, 05:42 PM
ALA John Elway, Eli/Peyton Manning, Troy Aikmen, Steve Young, Matt Safford, Terry Bradshaw and the list goes on. That is a pathetic excuse Carr just wasn't what he was thought to be.

And who was KC supposed to draft? Dirty Sanchez? Josh Freeman? Freeman already sucks and Sanchez would have fallen apart faster than a chinese motorcycle. There goes that argument.

LongDongJohnson
07-31-2012, 05:46 PM
And who was KC supposed to draft? Dirty Sanchez? Josh Freeman? Freeman already sucks and Sanchez would have fallen apart faster than a chinese motorcycle. There goes that argument.

Id take either of them over tyson jackson.

boltaneer
07-31-2012, 05:59 PM
I'm not a Sanchez fan at all but I'd take him over Cassel. He's played fairly well in the playoffs and I think he'd improve if he'd get away from the Jets circus.

I'd take Freeman in a heartbeat over Cassel. Not really much difference between the two right now and he's much younger and with much more upside over Cassel.

Chiefs also missed out on Andy Dalton, who looks like he may become a pretty damn good quarterback.

KCStud
07-31-2012, 06:20 PM
I'm not a Sanchez fan at all but I'd take him over Cassel. He's played fairly well in the playoffs and I think he'd improve if he'd get away from the Jets circus.

I'd take Freeman in a heartbeat over Cassel. Not really much difference between the two right now and he's much younger and with much more upside over Cassel.

Chiefs also missed out on Andy Dalton, who looks like he may become a pretty damn good quarterback.

Sanchez is nowhere near worth the 4th overall pick. Not anywhere near it. And while Tyson Jackson isn't either, his position is nowhere near as a determining factor as Sanchez' is.

Sanchez is essentially the same QB as Cassel. They're QB's that have to have everything around them be perfect for them to succeed.

The difference is the Jets were gave up picks to move up to #4 overall to draft the guy.

If I'm drafting a QB at #4, I'd rather it not be a QB with huge question marks surrounding him.

boltaneer
07-31-2012, 06:24 PM
Sanchez is nowhere near worth the 4th overall pick. Not anywhere near it. And while Tyson Jackson isn't either, his position is nowhere near as a determining factor as Sanchez' is.

Sanchez is essentially the same QB as Cassel. They're QB's that have to have everything around them be perfect for them to succeed.

The difference is the Jets were gave up picks to move up to #4 overall to draft the guy.

If I'm drafting a QB at #4, I'd rather it not be a QB with huge question marks surrounding him.

I can understand that reasoning.

I like how you avoided the Freeman topic though. :flower:

KCStud
07-31-2012, 06:36 PM
I can understand that reasoning.

I like how you avoided the Freeman topic though. :flower:

There were actually a ton of Chiefs fans who wanted Freeman because he is from Kansas City. It would have been an epic reach though. Bigger reach than Tyson Jackson.

I'm not so sure Freeman is even going to be an above average QB. Not from what I've seen.

As for Dalton, he's an incomplete product too. A top 10 defense, decent OL, a few really good weapons, and the 4th easiest schedule in the league made him look really good last year. I doubt he is going to be a franchise QB this year.

boltaneer
07-31-2012, 07:11 PM
Oh, it's way too early to tell with those two. I'd say the arrow is pointing up for them though.

Can't say the same for Cassel.

DENVERDUI55
07-31-2012, 07:29 PM
Sanchez is nowhere near worth the 4th overall pick. Not anywhere near it. And while Tyson Jackson isn't either, his position is nowhere near as a determining factor as Sanchez' is.

Sanchez is essentially the same QB as Cassel. They're QB's that have to have everything around them be perfect for them to succeed.

The difference is the Jets were gave up picks to move up to #4 overall to draft the guy.

If I'm drafting a QB at #4, I'd rather it not be a QB with huge question marks surrounding him.
Sanchez at 5 is a lot worse than Jackson at 3. Sanchez been to couple AFC championship games and Jackson well he has done nothing for what you were expecting from #3 pick.

KCStud
08-01-2012, 12:55 AM
Oh, it's way too early to tell with those two. I'd say the arrow is pointing up for them though.

Can't say the same for Cassel.

I agree. This is Cassel's last chance and everyone knows it.


This may be Cassel’s last chance to prove himself
This season may be QB’s one last chance to to silence vocal critics.
BY KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

ST. JOSEPH -- Matt Cassel hears it, and even though he says he doesn’t listen, the sounds of discontent are growing too loud now for even Cassel to ignore.

He’s beginning his fourth season as the Chiefs’ starting quarterback, and he knows what you think about him. If he was delusional or comfortable in a warm blanket of denial, he found out the hard way July 8, when the only discernible greeting for Cassel during a celebrity softball game during All-Star week was a loud chorus of boos.

“Hey, it is what it is, man,” he told me a few days ago. “You play this position; you’re going to take your lumps, and it’s not something that bugs me. It’s not something that I let get to me. You’ve got to be strong when you play this position.”

Here are a few facts about Cassel, whether you choose to believe them or not: He’s not as bad as the vocal majority has indicated this offseason. He has certainly not shown an ability to be an elite quarterback, and it’s debatable that he’s even a good one. But he’s not close to the trainwreck that popular opinion seems to now suggest.

He has been impressive so far in training camp, and it’s clear that, yes, he is miles ahead of Brady Quinn and Ricky Stanzi. Cassel, 30, is a middle-of-the-NFL starter with a skill set that, if all goes well around him, will allow the Chiefs to reach the playoffs and maybe win a game or two. Cassel’s team might not win because of him this season, but they won’t lose because of him, either. If the Chiefs struggle in 2012, he’ll face plenty of blame — but the real breakdowns will have come at other positions.

The other fact is that, as Cassel’s popularity deteriorates as the months pass since his Pro Bowl season in 2010, he has done himself few favors to quiet the critics. The thing that matters most is wins, and as the Chiefs’ starter he is 18-22 in three regular seasons and with 19 more touchdowns than interceptions. But perception counts, too.

Cassel’s two biggest mistakes, if you can call them that, are things beyond his control. Last year a hand injury ended his season after a mediocre nine starts, pushing Tyler Palko into the starting lineup and soiling a season that otherwise contained hope. Cassel later seemed more like chopped liver after Kyle Orton went 2-1 to close the season, a short time before the Chiefs again pledged their allegiance to Cassel and allowed Orton to sign with Dallas.

Not only that, but after more than three years here, Cassel still isn’t seen as “our” quarterback. General manager Scott Pioli has stuck with Cassel, whom the Patriots drafted in the seventh round in 2005, and avoided bringing in or retaining real competition for the starting job. It’s either in an effort to justify the legend of that brilliant Pioli mind we have been hearing about for so long, or because the Chiefs are still scared to draft a first-round quarterback 29 years after Todd Blackledge was selected and then became a bust.

There’s no doubt that there’s enormous risk involved in drafting a quarterback in the early rounds, and the Chiefs had other issues facing them in recent years. But the team just has to get it in its mind that it’s a risky but necessary part of building a Super Bowl contender. This city has been force-fed free-agent and traded-for passers for more than a generation, and other than reaching the AFC title game with a rented Joe Montana in 1994, it has been more than a generation since Chiefs fans have had a home-grown quarterback to embrace as their own.

When Miami took Ryan Tannehill with the eighth overall draft pick in April, the Chiefs became the NFL team that has gone the longest without selecting a quarterback in the first round. That’s a statistic almost as embarrassing as having gone 18 seasons without a playoff victory. Yet the clock keeps ticking, the calendar keeps turning, and the Chiefs refuse to embrace a fact most successful franchises see as obvious: You just don’t win big without drafting and developing your own quarterback.

So when the Chiefs traded a second-round pick in 2009 for Cassel and aging linebacker Mike Vrabel, Cassel was seen by many as just the latest placeholder until the team gathers its nerve and selects a quarterback with its top pick. Cassel also represented an additional face of the New England invasion, and it didn’t help that he showed only a bland, watered-down version of his personality in his first two years with the Chiefs.

In private, Cassel is a charming, funny, charismatic person who’s tough to dislike. You want a driven, optimistic man like him to succeed. In public, though, he has often been monotone and bland, and when he had a chance to forge a relationship with local fans, he instead seemed like a robot. He has lightened up the last two years, but at that point he was already seen as a stepchild.

“You can’t let it get to you,” said Cassel, who’s in the fourth year of a six-year contract. “The minute you let it start getting to you, it takes away from what you’re doing on the field and your production.”

The Chiefs have done a nice job surrounding Cassel with talented players, and the pieces are there for a march toward the playoffs. Added to his own ability and commitment — he spent much of the offseason working with second-year receiver Jon Baldwin, and it has shown so far in camp — there’s a good possibility that Cassel could quiet the critics, even if temporarily, and have a season that looks similar to 2010.

But if he doesn’t, and he again struggles, the Chiefs must look to the future and select a quarterback early in next year’s draft, even if that means they’ll take a step back in 2013. That’s the problem the team now faces, after three years of being too loyal to Cassel. That’s not his fault, either, but he’ll shoulder the responsibility.

Despite what he says when the cameras are rolling, Cassel thinks about it. How could he not?

“I would love nothing more than to go out there,” he said, “win for our fans, win for Arrowhead and get that thing rocking and rolling, going in the right direction and hear nothing but cheers every single time I go out.”

Like it or not, Cassel has earned a little more patience. He has earned a chance. But make no mistake: This season has to be his last chance.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/07/30/3733272/this-may-be-cassels-last-chance.html#storylink=cpy

KCStud
08-01-2012, 12:56 AM
Sanchez at 5 is a lot worse than Jackson at 3. Sanchez been to couple AFC championship games and Jackson well he has done nothing for what you were expecting from #3 pick.

Riding on the coat tails of one of the best talented teams in the league. Jackson may not live up to the #3 overall pick status, but let's not act like Sanchez is living up to his either.
He's not taking that team to a SB.

boltaneer
08-01-2012, 01:02 AM
Riding on the coat tails of one of the best talented teams in the league. Jackson may not live up to the #3 overall pick status, but let's not act like Sanchez is living up to his either.

He's not taking that team to a SB.

Probably not (with Tebow in town now) but he came close twice already in three years.

DENVERDUI55
08-02-2012, 09:25 AM
Riding on the coat tails of one of the best talented teams in the league. Jackson may not live up to the #3 overall pick status, but let's not act like Sanchez is living up to his either.
He's not taking that team to a SB.

Sanchez isn't but he hasn't been near the bust that Jackson has been.

mwill07
08-02-2012, 09:57 AM
...

In Kansas City, Dick Vermeil had the worst defensive coordinator in NFL history (Greg Robinson) and it showed. The Chiefs were completely one sided.
...

wat?

Greg Robinson was the DC for two superbowl championship teams.
wiki: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Robinson)
Robinson's Bronco defense played superbly during the 1998 playoff run. The Broncos defense held the Miami Dolphins scoreless in the divisional playoffs, allowed only a touchdown as a result of a fumble on the one yard line against the New York Jets in the AFC Championship Game, and then allowed a single touchdown to the Atlanta Falcons in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl after the outcome was secure.

I was no Robinson fan, just pointing out that a Robinson defense + dominant, explosive offense = one of the greatest teams ever assembled.

Captain 'Dre
08-02-2012, 10:07 AM
Cassel was the best option Pioli had in 2009 and a good QB to go through the building pains of building the team.

Starting a young QB on a 2-23 team would have ruined the QB's confidence ala David Carr.

What? Gus Ferrotte wasn't available? :)

mwill07
08-02-2012, 10:08 AM
Yet he still helped his team win playoff games over Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. No big deal

By the way, who won both of those games? Hilarious!

:ouwknow: Mark Sanchez?

Captain 'Dre
08-02-2012, 10:08 AM
Id take either of them over tyson jackson.

Ouch! Ha!

mwill07
08-02-2012, 10:13 AM
Sanchez is nowhere near worth the 4th overall pick. Not anywhere near it. And while Tyson Jackson isn't either, his position is nowhere near as a determining factor as Sanchez' is.

Sanchez is essentially the same QB as Cassel. They're QB's that have to have everything around them be perfect for them to succeed.

The difference is the Jets were gave up picks to move up to #4 overall to draft the guy.

If I'm drafting a QB at #4, I'd rather it not be a QB with huge question marks surrounding him.

Sanchez has 4 career wins. How far back do we have to go to find 4 KC franchise playoff wins?

BTW: before you go all "supporting team" on me, here's Sanchez' career stats for the playoffs:

six games, 95-157, 1155, 9 TD, 3 int. QB rating of 94.3.

Captain 'Dre
08-02-2012, 10:20 AM
If the best thing that can be said for Cassell is that "he's not the train wreck he's widely perceived as", then it looks to me like the Chefs are in for a another disappointing season.

KCStud
08-02-2012, 11:14 AM
Sanchez has 4 career wins. How far back do we have to go to find 4 KC franchise playoff wins?

BTW: before you go all "supporting team" on me, here's Sanchez' career stats for the playoffs:

six games, 95-157, 1155, 9 TD, 3 int. QB rating of 94.3.

Yeah Sanchez didn't have any help huh?

He just had the 1st ranked defense, 1st ranked running game, arguably the best OL in the NFL.

Even Cassel has won 10 or more games twice with elite talent/coaching surrounding him.

boltaneer
08-02-2012, 11:41 AM
Yeah Sanchez didn't have any help huh?

He just had the 1st ranked defense, 1st ranked running game, arguably the best OL in the NFL.

Even Cassel has won 10 or more games twice with elite talent/coaching surrounding him.

All that really helped Sanchez put up those passing numbers, right?

Just admit, he's done well in the playoffs. It's okay. No one will hate you.

KCStud
08-02-2012, 05:48 PM
All that really helped Sanchez put up those passing numbers, right?

Just admit, he's done well in the playoffs. It's okay. No one will hate you.

Yes it did. When you have time in the pocket, it's not that hard. Even Cassel has proven that.

It's all a matter of circumstance. Sanchez struggled last year when the Jets talent wasn't near as good. His line gave up 40 sacks last year after giving up only 26 his rookie year and 27 his second year.
His running game was 1st in the NFL his rookie year, 4th his 2nd year, and then to no surprise was 22nd last year when he looked awful.

Also, how would Sanchez look if he had a new OC every single season like Cassel?

I still think they're the same type of QB's. Have to have everyone else surrounding them look great for them to look good.

boltaneer
08-02-2012, 09:38 PM
So a quarterback needs a good team around him to win.

Thanks for that news flash. :flower:

maven
08-02-2012, 09:44 PM
Yes it did. When you have time in the pocket, it's not that hard. Even Cassel has proven that.

It's all a matter of circumstance. Sanchez struggled last year when the Jets talent wasn't near as good. His line gave up 40 sacks last year after giving up only 26 his rookie year and 27 his second year.
His running game was 1st in the NFL his rookie year, 4th his 2nd year, and then to no surprise was 22nd last year when he looked awful.

Also, how would Sanchez look if he had a new OC every single season like Cassel?

I still think they're the same type of QB's. Have to have everyone else surrounding them look great for them to look good.

I think I see what KC is saying. Brees, Rodgers, Brady are elite QB's. The best. Isn't that what you want?

Sanchez/Cassel. Meh

mwill07
08-02-2012, 10:02 PM
Yes it did. When you have time in the pocket, it's not that hard. Even Cassel has proven that.

It's all a matter of circumstance. Sanchez struggled last year when the Jets talent wasn't near as good. His line gave up 40 sacks last year after giving up only 26 his rookie year and 27 his second year.
His running game was 1st in the NFL his rookie year, 4th his 2nd year, and then to no surprise was 22nd last year when he looked awful.

Also, how would Sanchez look if he had a new OC every single season like Cassel?

I still think they're the same type of QB's. Have to have everyone else surrounding them look great for them to look good.

did the 2010 Chiefs not have the #1 rushing offense (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/2010.htm)?

come on now...

KCStud
08-02-2012, 10:54 PM
did the 2010 Chiefs not have the #1 rushing offense (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/2010.htm)?

come on now...

And Cassel looked good that season. Won double-digit games.

KCStud
08-02-2012, 10:56 PM
So a quarterback needs a good team around him to win.

Thanks for that news flash. :flower:

Not if you have an elite QB. Steelers OL has been getting Big Ben killed for years, Packers defense sucked last year.

Look at last years SB. Pats defense was not good at all and the Giants had a horrible running game and below average OL.

Franchise QB's make due and still succeed. Andy Dalton, Matt Cassel and Mark Sanchez are QB's who have to have everyone else be great for them to look good.

DBroncos4life
08-02-2012, 11:18 PM
Not if you have an elite QB. Steelers OL has been getting Big Ben killed for years, Packers defense sucked last year.

Look at last years SB. Pats defense was not good at all and the Giants had a horrible running game and below average OL.

Franchise QB's make due and still succeed. Andy Dalton, Matt Cassel and Mark Sanchez are QB's who have to have everyone else be great for them to look good.

Andy Dalton!?!? You are so ****ing dumb.

Kaylore
08-03-2012, 12:11 AM
LOL at anyone who thinks the Steelers line is the reason Ben gets sacked all the time.

mwill07
08-03-2012, 07:56 AM
And Cassel looked good that season. Won double-digit games.

we're talking about playoffs here. How did Cassel look in the playoffs with the #1 rushing offense?

compare and contrast with how Sanchez looked in the playoffs with the #4 rushing offense.

Tombstone RJ
08-03-2012, 08:34 AM
we're talking about playoffs here. How did Cassel look in the playoffs with the #1 rushing offense?

compare and contrast with how Sanchez looked in the playoffs with the #4 rushing offense.

It's kcdud, he chooses NOT to acknowledge or remember the losses.

Bacillus Anthracis
08-03-2012, 08:34 AM
Sanchez has done well in the playoffs but I gotta go with the idea that it's because of the talent around him, not because he's one of the best in the league. He doesn't elevate that team, he plays at the level of the rest of the team. IOW, when the team slipped, so did he.

He's okay but he's not one of the primary reasons the Jets were so good for two seasons.; that's not what you look for in a franchise qb.

mwill07
08-03-2012, 09:08 AM
Sanchez has done well in the playoffs but I gotta go with the idea that it's because of the talent around him, not because he's one of the best in the league. He doesn't elevate that team, he plays at the level of the rest of the team. IOW, when the team slipped, so did he.

He's okay but he's not one of the primary reasons the Jets were so good for two seasons.; that's not what you look for in a franchise qb.

The same argument could have been made about Eli Manning up until a couple of years ago.

Eli was highly drafted as well. 5 years in to his career, his best QB rating was 77 and he led the league in interceptions. Heading into 2012, he's considered one of the better QB's in the game...top 10, certainly.

I'm just sayin - it's a little pre-mature to lump Sanchez in with Cassel. I'm not saying he's an all-pro at this point - I think the light simply hasn't come on for him just yet. All of his measurable statistics have increased each year - TD passes, yards, comp %, rating, TD%, int % decreased, etc. couple that with some clutch games in the playoffs, and I have hope for Sanchez's ability to improve further.

Cassel, on the other hand, has had a different trajectory. He had the luxury of sitting on the bench for a few years, learning how to be a pro QB. After that, he had a good season in NE and then one great season in KC, bracketed by a couple of meh seasons. He's 30 years old - I think we've seen his ceiling, and that was his 2010 season.

The point we are trying to make here is that KC had a chance to grab a potential franchise QB in 2009 in Sanchez, or 2011 w/ a number of QB's - we still don't know what we have in Locker, Kapernik, Locker, Gabbert, or Mallet (trading up is ALWAYS an option). Instead, they've chosen to continue with a journeyman level QB, and will continue to struggle as a result.

DENVERDUI55
08-03-2012, 09:33 AM
And Cassel looked good that season. Won double-digit games.

We can use your own ammo to argue your point. Who did KC beat that year that was any good and how many playoff teams did they beat?

DENVERDUI55
08-03-2012, 09:53 AM
And Cassel looked good that season. Won double-digit games.

We can use your own ammo to argue your point. Who did KC beat that year that was any good and how many playoff teams did they beat?

boltaneer
08-03-2012, 01:44 PM
Some fun facts for stat lovers out there:

Mark Sanchez has a better QB rating, TD to INT ratio and Y/A than Eli, Big Ben and even Tom Brady in the post-season.

DBroncos4life
08-03-2012, 02:26 PM
Some fun facts for stat lovers out there:

Mark Sanchez has a better QB rating, TD to INT ratio and Y/A than Eli, Big Ben and even Tom Brady in the post-season.

Only because of an all word D!! Hilarious!

KCStud
08-03-2012, 04:59 PM
we're talking about playoffs here. How did Cassel look in the playoffs with the #1 rushing offense?

compare and contrast with how Sanchez looked in the playoffs with the #4 rushing offense.

And the best OL in the playoffs. Meanwhile KC had to start a player off the street because they were void of talent.

KCStud
08-03-2012, 05:01 PM
Some fun facts for stat lovers out there:

Mark Sanchez has a better QB rating, TD to INT ratio and Y/A than Eli, Big Ben and even Tom Brady in the post-season.

Eli/Big Ben/Brady 7 SB's> Sanchez :(