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View Full Version : Your Opinion on League Suspensions


houghtam
07-18-2012, 10:17 AM
With conflicting information coming out on the Dumervil report, but the seeming consensus that Goodell is going to punish him anyway, what are your thoughts on league suspensions?

oubronco
07-18-2012, 10:22 AM
**** Goodell

bronco militia
07-18-2012, 10:23 AM
**** Goodell

^this!

BoiseBluTurf
07-18-2012, 10:25 AM
Wrong place at the wrong time... He/players need to choose who and where they hang out a little better... Might also be wise to leave the guns at home unless you have a concealed weapons permit... all of that said... actions have consequences... so... i'm for them even though it will hurt our team. He is lucky it didn't happen in N.Y... he would be facing a two year sentence in the clink... hello Plax!


that is all,

Michael

bronco militia
07-18-2012, 10:30 AM
I would add another choice. The league should avoid all action until the legal process is over.

houghtam
07-18-2012, 10:31 AM
I would add another choice. The league should avoid all action until the legal process is over.

That's the second choice, unless you're talking about legal appeals, in which case many players would be out of the league before the legal process is over.

Kaylore
07-18-2012, 10:32 AM
Generally I tend to think 99% of guys getting arrested are them being stupid. Dumervil apparently is the worst driver in the world, which I was unaware of. The God-complex these players have manifests in a variety of ways.

Having said that, it bothers me that the commissioner can suspend someone who had charges dismissed, or worse, was found innocent. I think that's too easy to exploit and the player has no recourse. I guess I think there should still be something done since they probably were guilty of at least being stupid, but they should have a much more reduced penalty if there are no charges filed.

bronco militia
07-18-2012, 10:34 AM
That's the second choice, unless you're talking about legal appeals, in which case many players would be out of the league before the legal process is over.

no it's not...players have been suspended even after being found innocent (see Big Ben)

houghtam
07-18-2012, 10:36 AM
Generally I tend to think 99% of guys getting arrested are them being stupid. Dumervil apparently is the worst driver in the world, which I was unaware of. The God-complex these players have manifests in a variety of ways.

Having said that, it bothers me that the commissioner can suspend someone who had charges dismissed, or worse, was found innocent. I think that's too easy to exploit and the player has no recourse. I guess I think there should still be something done since they probably were guilty of at least being stupid, but they should have a much more reduced penalty if there are no charges filed.

That's a good point. IMO it would be smart of Goodell just to have a chart with different crimes and their penalties for both "found guilty" and "innocent, but associating with the wrong people". When an incident occurs, the player automatically gets the lesser punishment (provided it's not a completely false claim, obviously). If you're found guilty, you get the greater punishment. If you fight it and are still found guilty, you get twice the punishment.

houghtam
07-18-2012, 10:38 AM
no it's not...players have been suspended even after being found innocent (see Big Ben)

That's choice number 3. He was found innocent, but put himself in a bad situation and conduct detrimental to the league.

Garcia Bronco
07-18-2012, 10:39 AM
I'd say let the legal system decide and then take action.

Beantown Bronco
07-18-2012, 10:48 AM
I never understood the concept of having to appeal a suspension with the same person who gave you the suspension to begin with. Makes zero sense. When would Goodell ever say, "yup, that idiot Goodell suspended you when he shouldn't have. Suspension overruled."

Sure, he might reduce the original sentence, but there's zero chance he'd ever completely reverse his own ruling.

ColoradoDarin
07-18-2012, 10:51 AM
I went with 3 because of the money, fame, access to lawyers, and other circumstances that may affect the legal process (aka Big Ben rapey rape/Cox rapey rape). If it shows the NFL in a bad light, then the NFL has the right to protect its brand.

I'm not going to promote a system that would have had OJ not receiving any league suspensions for murdering 2 people (hypothesizing that he killed while still in the league).

Kaylore
07-18-2012, 11:10 AM
I never understood the concept of having to appeal a suspension with the same person who gave you the suspension to begin with. Makes zero sense. When would Goodell ever say, "yup, that idiot Goodell suspended you when he shouldn't have. Suspension overruled."

Sure, he might reduce the original sentence, but there's zero chance he'd ever completely reverse his own ruling.

That's another major flaw in the whole thing. It's unfair to both parties because Goodell has to uphold his own decision not to look stupid and the person appealing doesn't feel like he's getting a fair shake.

houghtam
07-18-2012, 11:17 AM
I went with 3 because of the money, fame, access to lawyers, and other circumstances that may affect the legal process (aka Big Ben rapey rape/Cox rapey rape). If it shows the NFL in a bad light, then the NFL has the right to protect its brand.

I'm not going to promote a system that would have had OJ not receiving any league suspensions for murdering 2 people (hypothesizing that he killed while still in the league).

Yep. NFL is a private business, and they have the right to protect their brand. Just like the right to free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want without repercussions from your employer, "innocent until proven guilty" applies in a court of law, but not necessarily for a private business, especially with one as high profile as the NFL.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-18-2012, 11:26 AM
I never understood the concept of having to appeal a suspension with the same person who gave you the suspension to begin with. Makes zero sense. When would Goodell ever say, "yup, that idiot Goodell suspended you when he shouldn't have. Suspension overruled."

Sure, he might reduce the original sentence, but there's zero chance he'd ever completely reverse his own ruling.

That's what I think most players expectations are in an appeal. Even if it's just a one game reduction makes a difference. Other sports like nba mlb not so much since their seasons are saturated with too many games as it is. But only 16 games, getting even 1 game back is big

Beantown Bronco
07-18-2012, 11:30 AM
That's what I think most players expectations are in an appeal. Even if it's just a one game reduction makes a difference. Other sports like nba mlb not so much since their seasons are saturated with too many games as it is. But only 16 games, getting even 1 game back is big

Ever think Goodell knows this and takes it into account when he does his initial ruling? He most certainly does. For example, he really only wants to give 2 games, but since he knows it's going to be appealed anyway, he gives 4 instead....then reduces it to 2 after the appeal.

It's stupid and there's no way to justify the process. There needs to be an independent body that can hear the appeals.

gyldenlove
07-18-2012, 11:34 AM
Generally I tend to think 99% of guys getting arrested are them being stupid. Dumervil apparently is the worst driver in the world, which I was unaware of. The God-complex these players have manifests in a variety of ways.

Having said that, it bothers me that the commissioner can suspend someone who had charges dismissed, or worse, was found innocent. I think that's too easy to exploit and the player has no recourse. I guess I think there should still be something done since they probably were guilty of at least being stupid, but they should have a much more reduced penalty if there are no charges filed.

That is the reason Goodell doesn't suspend players for the first time they run afoul of the law. It could be a misunderstanding, it happens, I am sure some of us have been arrested because we were in the wrong place at the wrong time or because of a misunderstanding.

On the other hand, the NFL is a family brand and as such it must protect its image very stringently, which is difficult when the majority of your publicity is generated by young males, many of whom have backgrounds in areas rife with poverty, crime and short on education and aspirations. Consider if these individuals had worked for Disney corp or had been in the military - how do you think they would have been dealt with?

Look at a guy like Pacman Jones, he kept putting himself in bad positions, kept getting in trouble but wasn't convicted of a fellony until 2011. Should Goodell have let him play in the league for all those years and wait until all his appeal options were exhausted? He could easily have appealed for long enough to retire before the final conviction.

The system now is designed to protect the leagues image, it is not meant to punish criminals. It is simply meant to deter players and other employees from putting themselves in a position to produce negative press. Dumervil may not have commited a crime, but he put himself in a position by associating with an asshole that generated negative attention.

gyldenlove
07-18-2012, 11:36 AM
I never understood the concept of having to appeal a suspension with the same person who gave you the suspension to begin with. Makes zero sense. When would Goodell ever say, "yup, that idiot Goodell suspended you when he shouldn't have. Suspension overruled."

Sure, he might reduce the original sentence, but there's zero chance he'd ever completely reverse his own ruling.

It has happened on some on-field fines that the original fine was completely overturned after the player gave his input. In many cases the original suspension is handed down without the player getting a chance to give input or provide evidence.

Beantown Bronco
07-18-2012, 11:46 AM
It has happened on some on-field fines that the original fine was completely overturned after the player gave his input. In many cases the original suspension is handed down without the player getting a chance to give input or provide evidence.

A fine is one thing. A suspension is another.

And to my knowledge, the only fines that have been overturned were due to trivia sideline things, like Troy Polamalu calling his wife to tell her he was ok after he was removed from a game with a concussion; and someone else for removing one of the nfl network microphones because it shifted around and was irritating him or something. In those types of cases, Goodell can reverse his own decision and not look bad. But unless I'm mistaken, he's never fully overturned a fine for an on field incident like a hit to the head. He may reduce the amount, but he won't overturn it.

razorwire77
07-18-2012, 11:55 AM
I might be in the minority, but I don't really have a problem with it. Employers fire or discipline subordinates for arrests without convictions all of the time. I'm a school teacher and if I made the front page of a newspaper for being arrested on aggravated assault charges, I would be fired before the criminal trial. Think about how many Joe average careers where the person would be fired for what NFL players get away with. Do you think a truck driver could have multiple DUI arrests and still drive a truck? Would a manager at Denny's keep his job if he made the news for assaulting his Mom? It wouldn't matter if the charges were dismissed. He'd be ****-canned. Most professional athletes have been coddled since high school because they could run the fastest, jump the highest etc. Add to that mentality youth and a significant bank roll and you get lots of dumbassery. Just because a good attorney like Harvey can plea out or get said dumassery dismissed, it doesn't mean an employer doesn't have the discretion to discipline an employee. Goodell tends to punish patterns of inappropriate behavior, it's not like he's handing out 10 game suspensions for disorderly conduct or outright barring players from the league.

Drunken.Broncoholic
07-18-2012, 12:03 PM
Ever think Goodell knows this and takes it into account when he does his initial ruling? He most certainly does. For example, he really only wants to give 2 games, but since he knows it's going to be appealed anyway, he gives 4 instead....then reduces it to 2 after the appeal.

It's stupid and there's no way to justify the process. There needs to be an independent body that can hear the appeals.

Exactly. It's a sham and I don't know why the NFLPA hasn't demanded they change this format(at least i don't know if they have or not)

GoBroncos DownUnder
07-18-2012, 12:25 PM
no it's not...players have been suspended even after being found innocent (see Big Ben)
Here's my take on Ben's suspension:
Big Ben was called in to see the Commissioner, and told to "spill it" ... with the Michael Vick suspension fresh in his mind, Ben fessed up to EXACTLY what happened - in the college bar bathroom, with the underage girl, as his security barred the door.
You figure it out!:yayaya:
He was suspended for 3 games, took it WELL, and NEVER complained ... oh, and stopped making stupid decisions off the field! Congrats to Ben!


ADDITIONAL NOTE: The video tapes of that night were recorded over, oops! And the possible "scene of the crime" was wiped clean by an overly enthusiastic cleaner that night ... not saying that it was a cover up, but IMO that's what a PERFECT cover up looks like! ;)

boltaneer
07-18-2012, 12:57 PM
The league/Goodell normally waits until the legal process goes through before they take action, which is a good thing.

The NFLPA negotiated the league's and Goodell's power in the CBA, so the league and Goodell do not have to and will never have an independent entity review cases as long as it's in the CBA.

I like Goodell's tough stance on conduct. I actually wish he would be stricter with it.

houghtam
07-18-2012, 02:08 PM
Here's my take on Ben's suspension:
Big Ben was called in to see the Commissioner, and told to "spill it" ... with the Michael Vick suspension fresh in his mind, Ben fessed up to EXACTLY what happened - in the college bar bathroom, with the underage girl, as his security barred the door.
You figure it out!:yayaya:
He was suspended for 3 games, took it WELL, and NEVER complained ... oh, and stopped making stupid decisions off the field! Congrats to Ben!


ADDITIONAL NOTE: The video tapes of that night were recorded over, oops! And the possible "scene of the crime" was wiped clean by an overly enthusiastic cleaner that night ... not saying that it was a cover up, but IMO that's what a PERFECT cover up looks like! ;)

I see what you're saying, but on the Big Ben note (and completely unrelated to the subject of the thread), I knew two girls in college at UC who said that QB in Oxford love to parade his junk around at parties and intimidate smaller girls into getting into compromising situations with him, and that was common knowledge all before this stuff came out.

Where there's smoke there's fire, and in Big Ben's case there was a hell of a lot of smoke.

Hulamau
07-18-2012, 02:36 PM
Generally I tend to think 99% of guys getting arrested are them being stupid. Dumervil apparently is the worst driver in the world, which I was unaware of. The God-complex these players have manifests in a variety of ways.

Having said that, it bothers me that the commissioner can suspend someone who had charges dismissed, or worse, was found innocent. I think that's too easy to exploit and the player has no recourse. I guess I think there should still be something done since they probably were guilty of at least being stupid, but they should have a much more reduced penalty if there are no charges filed.

Agreed on all points ...

StugotsIII
07-18-2012, 02:43 PM
If the intent is to curb this type of behavior....is it working?


Is someone keeping data on trend lines?

Pick Six
07-18-2012, 02:58 PM
Let's have the football season be longer. That way, players have less time to get into trouble...:thumbs:

orinjkrush
07-18-2012, 03:12 PM
Yep. NFL is a private business, and they have the right to protect their brand. Just like the right to free speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want without repercussions from your employer, "innocent until proven guilty" applies in a court of law, but not necessarily for a private business, especially with one as high profile as the NFL.

totally agree. suspended pending investigation.

we have an epic problem of lack of responsibility in this country. no one is responsible for anything. banksters, politicians, sports heroes, school children, just about everybody has an "excuse". and we wonder why we see the behavior we do?

Rabb
07-18-2012, 03:49 PM
Let's have the football season be longer. That way, players have less time to get into trouble...:thumbs:

no, no, no

make it longer so that we can account for a couple games where we have guys suspended and still be in the hunt

jerseyboiler120
07-18-2012, 03:56 PM
totally agree. suspended pending investigation.

we have an epic problem of lack of responsibility in this country. no one is responsible for anything. banksters, politicians, sports heroes, school children, just about everybody has an "excuse". and we wonder why we see the behavior we do?


The country is a complete disaster. Even the President is allowed to break laws left and right and nobody says or does anything. Athletes are a mess and the past few days proves it. Today Lynch from the seahawks. Yesterday was someone else. These guys can't stay out of trouble.

Turd_Ferguson
07-18-2012, 05:38 PM
When was it ever the players "right" to play in the NFL? If the NFL says all its players must wear pink thongs to play in the NFL, then these guys better break out the pink thongs. If they don't like it, they can go play in Canada. Do I think it should be Goodell making all the decisions? Probably not, as the leader of the NFL it makes him "look bad". He should have a committee set up to determine suspensions, and then he would deal with any appeals.... He would still be in charge of telling the committee what kind of punishments he was looking for and how severe he wanted them to be, and if for some reason a player thought a decision was unfair they could appeal to him. The committee would allow him to clean up the league image and still not be the direct "villain". In the end though, I know if I get a DUI I would lose my job, so I don't drink and drive... If I was accused of 3 DUIs and never convicted and my boss fired me, can I really look him in the eye and say where did this come from?? Can any of you honestly see yourselves not only packing around a handgun with no concealed permit, but then pulling it out to show a complete stranger in and ominous manner? I picked the last option.

DBroncos4life
07-18-2012, 05:43 PM
Wouldn't it be easier for the owners to just black list any player that ever gets in trouble so fans don't have to worry about players acting out.

gyldenlove
07-18-2012, 06:37 PM
When was it ever the players "right" to play in the NFL? If the NFL says all its players must wear pink thongs to play in the NFL, then these guys better break out the pink thongs. If they don't like it, they can go play in Canada. Do I think it should be Goodell making all the decisions? Probably not, as the leader of the NFL it makes him "look bad". He should have a committee set up to determine suspensions, and then he would deal with any appeals.... He would still be in charge of telling the committee what kind of punishments he was looking for and how severe he wanted them to be, and if for some reason a player thought a decision was unfair they could appeal to him. The committee would allow him to clean up the league image and still not be the direct "villain". In the end though, I know if I get a DUI I would lose my job, so I don't drink and drive... If I was accused of 3 DUIs and never convicted and my boss fired me, can I really look him in the eye and say where did this come from?? Can any of you honestly see yourselves not only packing around a handgun with no concealed permit, but then pulling it out to show a complete stranger in and ominous manner? I picked the last option.

I quite like the system in the NHL with a head of player discipline taking care of initial suspensions and fines and appeals being heard by the commish, that way the commissioner is free to change punishment without looking foolish for changing his mind.

Navy Broncos Fan
07-18-2012, 06:53 PM
The league most certainly should suspend players once they have been convicted in a court of law. In my opinion they need to be much harder on the players who get in trouble, especially repeat offenders.

I do not agree that Goodell should be the one handing down the penalties though. I would like to see a 3-7 man committee or council handing down the suspensions and punishment and Goodell would be the man the appeal could go to.

Turd_Ferguson
07-18-2012, 06:58 PM
I quite like the system in the NHL with a head of player discipline taking care of initial suspensions and fines and appeals being heard by the commish, that way the commissioner is free to change punishment without looking foolish for changing his mind.

Yea I agree. I think Brendan Shanahan is an inconsistent douche bag, but I agree its better to have Shanahan looking like the evil emperor than the face of NHL.

boltaneer
07-18-2012, 07:30 PM
Wouldn't it be easier for the owners to just black list any player that ever gets in trouble so fans don't have to worry about players acting out.

Collusion is a big no-no.

Not that it doesn't happen...

errand
07-18-2012, 08:19 PM
When it comes to player conduct on the field, that's up to whatever the Commissioner decides, within the limits of the CBA and blessing of the owners

When it comes to off-field conduct, however....


[] If you're convicted of or plead guilty to a felony like weapons charges, sexual assault, rape, murder, assault, etc....kicked out of the NFL, no chance for re-instatement. If you're convicted of or plead guilty to a drug felony, white collar felony, etc. banned from NFL but you can petition NFL for re-instatement

[] Depending on the seriousness of the misdemeanor you're convicted of or plead guilty to, game(s) suspension, and/or fine...not talking about parking tickets, I'm talking about things that generally would cause you to spend a few days or so in jail or would cost the average Joe his job.

Practically everyone works where their job is on the line if they commit a crime....why shouldn't NFL players be held to the same standards?

errand
07-18-2012, 08:22 PM
The league most certainly should suspend players once they have been convicted in a court of law. In my opinion they need to be much harder on the players who get in trouble, especially repeat offenders.

I do not agree that Goodell should be the one handing down the penalties though. I would like to see a 3-7 man committee or council handing down the suspensions and punishment and Goodell would be the man the appeal could go to.

In fairness to Goodell, he generally punishes the players more than they generally get in our legal system

errand
07-18-2012, 08:32 PM
Let's have the football season be longer. That way, players have less time to get into trouble...:thumbs:

You might be onto something here....think about this. The pre-season is only 4 games...but if they wanna reduce the pre-season to two games, but perhaps increase the number of OTA's, and scrimmages, I don't care.

You play every team in your division twice...that's 6 games.

You play all the other teams in your conference...that's another 12 games....makes it better to sort out the tie breakers. That is an 18 game schedule....

No more regular season AFC vs NFC games, the Super Bowl will go back to it's original glory as the debate over which conference is better, since the only time they play each other is pre-season games and the SB....Imagine the debates and betting that'll go on as the two conference winners hadn't already played earlier in the season

There more these clowns spend on the job, the less time they have to get into trouble off the job....

Navy Broncos Fan
07-18-2012, 09:03 PM
In fairness to Goodell, he generally punishes the players more than they generally get in our legal system

Oh I agree with you 100% there. Our legal system is a joke when it comes to punishment for these superstars. They get a fancy lawyer and walk away with a slap on the wrist, when if it happened to one of us it would probably be weeks if not years in jail.