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View Full Version : Woods passes Nicklaus, goes to 2nd all time


ZONA
07-02-2012, 10:04 PM
Congrats to Tiger Woods. No small feat to amass 74 tour wins. Only Slammin Sammy Snead has more (82). I think it's safe to say, while he still may not yet pass Nicklaus in Major wins, I do think Tiger will have the most tour wins by the time he is done.

Not to mention - he's really starting to kick things in gear. 3 wins on the year and 2 of the last 3. For a guy is "isn't back" yet, he's not playing too shabby.

Cmac821
07-02-2012, 10:06 PM
I'd take the odds he is going to win quite a bit more still

Mogulseeker
07-02-2012, 10:28 PM
I think if he gets his head on straight he'll take it.

At one point this wasn't even a question... now it's 50/50. Tiger was an asshole for what he did, but I'm pulling for him now.

Bronco Yoda
07-02-2012, 10:52 PM
I think if he gets his head on straight he'll take it.

At one point this wasn't even a question... now it's 50/50. Tiger was an a-hole for what he did, but I'm pulling for him now.

He 'WAS'? What changed?

...time heals all a-hole wounds...that is if you're winning I guess.???

ZONA
07-02-2012, 11:31 PM
I'm gonna say, I think he wins a major this year. I think things are finally clicking for him and he's gaining confidence fast.

Bronco Boy
07-03-2012, 06:19 AM
He's a horrible person. But he is playing well.

enjolras
07-03-2012, 08:27 AM
He 'WAS'? What changed?

...time heals all a-hole wounds...that is if you're winning I guess.???

I root for the guy, always have. I honestly don't even care about what he does off the course.

Stagger Lee
07-03-2012, 08:55 AM
I root for the guy, always have. I honestly don't even care about what he does off the course.

This exactly. What the hell do I care who he sticks his dick in?

Smiling Assassin27
07-03-2012, 08:55 AM
Woods still isn't there mentally, IMO. The edge he used to enjoy over the competition was really more mental than physical; and his physical edge during his reign was pronounced. But guys aren't afraid of him anymore and he singlehandedly has raised the level of fitness on the tour, so the physical edge has diminished too.

He himself set the bar that he ought to be judged by his record in majors. He hasn't won one in a coon's age, and so I don't consider him 'back'. He's playing well and is back in the mix among golf's best, but not THE best...yet.

I don't pull for the guy to win, but I do pull for him to be a factor because the sport is stronger with him. There's still a long way to go this season, so let's see if he raises his game even more or if his body breaks down again.

2nd all time is amazing.

Cmac821
07-03-2012, 12:23 PM
That US Open where he played Rocco in a playoff and his knee was messed up (fracture and torn acl?) was one of the greatest sport moments I have seen. Truly incredible he was able to win. His mental toughness to come back from his a-holeness should not be doubted

OrangeSe7en
07-03-2012, 03:27 PM
Woods is still at 14. He, himself, said it's all about majors. So when he gloats and tries to call out the media for winning these nothing tournaments, it's kind of pathetic.

ZONA
07-04-2012, 11:46 PM
Tiger didn't win all those tournaments and majors because guys were "scared" of him. He was hands down just a better player, in almost every facet of the game. His driving was awesome, his iron play was stellar, his short game was as good as Micklesons' and his putting was Crenshaw'esque. And he was clutch. When he had to have something, he found a way. The media and fans like to think guys were scared of him but that's total BS. It's not as if Woods won all his majors the way he did the 97 Masters. Many of them went to the final few holes and even extended holes in a playoff. I wouldn't say that's being afraid. I'd just say that was Woods' talent and mental focus coming through in the final moments.

Now is he back? I don't think anybody in the golfing world believes he will be as dominant as he used to be. Partly because he's 36 now and yes, there are quite a few great golfers out there today.

Woods is playing very good right now. He should never be overlooked week in and week out. He's comeback to be a major force in the game again and that is awesome for golf fans. It's been a fun ride watching him and Lefty dominate the game over the past 15 years. Yeah, you can throw VJ in there too. He's got 36 tour wins and 3 majors. Phil is actually 9th all time in tour wins and he's still playing. He's got more wins then some of the greats (Watson, Sarazen, Trevino, Norman). You won't see any current player close to Woods, Phil and VJ. The next would be Davis Love III with 18 wins (tied for 33rd place).

It is fun to watch the young guys to see who is gonna step up and be that next guy(s) to carry the game.

driver
07-05-2012, 05:00 AM
Phil is actually 9th all time in tour wins and he's still playing. He's got more wins then some of the greats

Can't argue this Tiger is a fine golfer. But how good could Lefty have been if he didn't have to play with artritic pain for the last 10 years? You're basically saying that Tiger's only competition has been Mikelson and Singh, I would add Els to the list of competitors who have stood the test of time. That is only three true competitors,the best severely handicaped, for him.

Also bear in mind that there were only 36 sanctioned tournaments in 1965.
In 2012 there are 45. The high was 48 IIRC in 2005.More tornaments= more chances to win. Like all of Favre's records if you play 48 more games then your competition you'll own all the records eventually.

Lets look at the competition for;

Tiger..Lefty
VJ Singh
E Els
Sam Snead..Hogan
Palmer
Player
Venturi
Nicklaus (towards the end of Sneads career)
B Nelson
Nicklaus....Snead
Palmer
Player
Watson
Lesser players.Lema.Trevino. Irwin.Weiskopkof.etc.
Who had the toughest competition IMO. Snead.
Tiger said it himself.It's the majors that count.

DENVERDUI55
07-05-2012, 09:37 AM
Can't argue this Tiger is a fine golfer. But how good could Lefty have been if he didn't have to play with artritic pain for the last 10 years? You're basically saying that Tiger's only competition has been Mikelson and Singh, I would add Els to the list of competitors who have stood the test of time. That is only three true competitors,the best severely handicaped, for him.

Also bear in mind that there were only 36 sanctioned tournaments in 1965.
In 2012 there are 45. The high was 48 IIRC in 2005.More tornaments= more chances to win. Like all of Favre's records if you play 48 more games then your competition you'll own all the records eventually.

Lets look at the competition for;

Tiger..Lefty
VJ Singh
E Els
Sam Snead..Hogan
Palmer
Player
Venturi
Nicklaus (towards the end of Sneads career)
B Nelson
Nicklaus....Snead
Palmer
Player
Watson
Lesser players.Lema.Trevino. Irwin.Weiskopkof.etc.
Who had the toughest competition IMO. Snead.
Tiger said it himself.It's the majors that count.

No mention of billy casper? The level of golf nowdays is so much better than in Jacks era who I think is the GOAT. Today there are probably 150 players that can win on any given week. Back then and even before not so much.

jonny1
07-05-2012, 10:00 AM
Can't argue this Tiger is a fine golfer. But how good could Lefty have been if he didn't have to play with artritic pain for the last 10 years? You're basically saying that Tiger's only competition has been Mikelson and Singh, I would add Els to the list of competitors who have stood the test of time. That is only three true competitors,the best severely handicaped, for him.

Also bear in mind that there were only 36 sanctioned tournaments in 1965.
In 2012 there are 45. The high was 48 IIRC in 2005.More tornaments= more chances to win. Like all of Favre's records if you play 48 more games then your competition you'll own all the records eventually.

Lets look at the competition for;

Tiger..Lefty
VJ Singh
E Els
Sam Snead..Hogan
Palmer
Player
Venturi
Nicklaus (towards the end of Sneads career)
B Nelson
Nicklaus....Snead
Palmer
Player
Watson
Lesser players.Lema.Trevino. Irwin.Weiskopkof.etc.
Who had the toughest competition IMO. Snead.
Tiger said it himself.It's the majors that count.

Phil's problem hasn't been arthritis (and it has only been a factor the last few years, not 10), it has been, in his own words (paraphrased), being "an idiot."

Always going for the heroic shot instead of playing percentages. Sometimes it works, sometimes it loses US Opens.

ZONA
07-05-2012, 10:20 PM
Phil's problem hasn't been arthritis (and it has only been a factor the last few years, not 10), it has been, in his own words (paraphrased), being "an idiot."

Always going for the heroic shot instead of playing percentages. Sometimes it works, sometimes it loses US Opens.

True, but that's why I think greatness is determined by both, majors and tour wins. Phil has blown many chances at having more then 4 majors. But look at how many times Nicklaus came in 2nd and 3rd in a major......

2nd place finishes 19
Top-three finishes 46

I just wish Phil would break through and get his US Open. He deserves one. Like 6 second place finishes. Olympic was just not the place for him to do it. He'll have great chances I think at Merion and Oakmont, almost no trees to deal with, heh.

And for Els, eh, it's kind of hard to factor in some of the non US players. I don't think the other tours have near the depth the US tour has. At the top, yes, the European Tour the last 5 years has been good, but they have been pretty bad before that. Els has I think like 14 US wins. But he is definitely in the conversation. What a great US Open he had this year. A few really bad breaks for him down the stretch, he was making some moves mid round final day.

driver
07-06-2012, 04:19 AM
Always going for the heroic shot instead of playing percentages. Sometimes it works, sometimes it loses US Opens.

Sometimes it wins you a green jacket.
If you don't dare to be great you never will be.

Watson said it best I think. One of the talking heads asked him about why he was such an agressive putter?
His response" 100 percent of puts that don't make it to the hole don't go in."

This is all off topic really my first post was more about Tigers lack of first rate competition. I'm saying that he should hold the records for wins etc.

His only real handicap has been HIMSELF.

dsmoot
07-06-2012, 08:45 AM
True, but that's why I think greatness is determined by both, majors and tour wins. Phil has blown many chances at having more then 4 majors. But look at how many times Nicklaus came in 2nd and 3rd in a major......

2nd place finishes 19
Top-three finishes 46

I just wish Phil would break through and get his US Open. He deserves one. Like 6 second place finishes. Olympic was just not the place for him to do it. He'll have great chances I think at Merion and Oakmont, almost no trees to deal with, heh.

And for Els, eh, it's kind of hard to factor in some of the non US players. I don't think the other tours have near the depth the US tour has. At the top, yes, the European Tour the last 5 years has been good, but they have been pretty bad before that. Els has I think like 14 US wins. But he is definitely in the conversation. What a great US Open he had this year. A few really bad breaks for him down the stretch, he was making some moves mid round final day.

I have always pulled for Phil. Phil does not deserve a US Open. You earn it by responding to the pressure both mentally and physically. Phil has had his opportunities and has been his own worst enemy.

The European tour has been pretty good for a lot longer than 5 years. The word "bad" just isn't accurate in any sense. It just hasn't had the depth of good players. The number of European major winners and the Ryder Cup success has shown that.

dsmoot
07-06-2012, 09:00 AM
Can't argue this Tiger is a fine golfer. But how good could Lefty have been if he didn't have to play with artritic pain for the last 10 years? You're basically saying that Tiger's only competition has been Mikelson and Singh, I would add Els to the list of competitors who have stood the test of time. That is only three true competitors,the best severely handicaped, for him.

Also bear in mind that there were only 36 sanctioned tournaments in 1965.
In 2012 there are 45. The high was 48 IIRC in 2005.More tornaments= more chances to win. Like all of Favre's records if you play 48 more games then your competition you'll own all the records eventually.

Lets look at the competition for;

Tiger..Lefty
VJ Singh
E Els
Sam Snead..Hogan
Palmer
Player
Venturi
Nicklaus (towards the end of Sneads career)
B Nelson
Nicklaus....Snead
Palmer
Player
Watson
Lesser players.Lema.Trevino. Irwin.Weiskopkof.etc.
Who had the toughest competition IMO. Snead.
Tiger said it himself.It's the majors that count.

Your list is generally good just not compiled accurately for the players in their prime. In no way was Nicklaus a contemporary of Snead or Hogan on a competitive level. Nicklaus turned pro in 1962. Although Snead last won in 1967 (Greensboro) at age 52. He was well past his prime when Nicklaus hit the scene.

Although, there was a slight overlap, Player and Palmer were not part of the Snead, Hogan and Nelson era. Nelson is slightly overlooked because he quit the tour at his peak at 36 yrs old.

Although, Venturi won 14 times and a major. His career was limited by injury and was not a major force in the Snead, Hogan, Nelson era or the Palmer, Nicklaus era. Demaret and Casper were significant players left off your list.

Garcia Bronco
07-06-2012, 09:05 AM
I'm gonna say, I think he wins a major this year. I think things are finally clicking for him and he's gaining confidence fast.

I don't think so. He just doesn't have the mental game right now in a major. He can't win the Open. Especially if he gets a ****ty draw. If he were to win one...it could be the PGA, but I doubt that too.


What do you guys consider the greatest Major win ever? For me it's gotta be Francis and the 1913 US Open. Ouimet destroyed Harry Vardon, who was probabaly the greatest British Golfer ever.

driver
07-06-2012, 12:40 PM
What do you guys consider the greatest Major win ever? For me it's gotta be Francis and the 1913 US Open. Ouimet destroyed Harry Vardon, who was probabaly the greatest British Golfer ever.

This is a good choice since it was a true amatuer against the finest professional of his time!

My personal pick is the open championship in 77. Nicklaus vs watson. Kind of like two heavy weights standing toe to toe and hitting each other with everything they had.

DENVERDUI55
07-06-2012, 03:41 PM
I don't think so. He just doesn't have the mental game right now in a major. He can't win the Open. Especially if he gets a ****ty draw. If he were to win one...it could be the PGA, but I doubt that too.


What do you guys consider the greatest Major win ever? For me it's gotta be Francis and the 1913 US Open. Ouimet destroyed Harry Vardon, who was probabaly the greatest British Golfer ever.

Your hate of Woods is comical. Who else has 3 Brittish open championships that actually can still win the tournament? He has 4 PGA wins and his wins this year are on PGA style courses. I think the greatest Major win was 86 masters by Jack.

dsmoot
07-07-2012, 02:04 AM
What do you guys consider the greatest Major win ever?

This is a good choice since it was a true amatuer against the finest professional of his time!

My personal pick is the open championship in 77. Nicklaus vs watson. Kind of like two heavy weights standing toe to toe and hitting each other with everything they had.

The 77 Open Championship was one of the most special tournaments in major golf history. Watson and Nicklaus left the field shooting 65-65 and 65-66. Although the 18th was somewhat anticlimactic, Nicklaus hitting the 2cd shot onto the green from a most horrific lie and then making the long putt to force the Watson putt was an incredible finish. Their walk together off the final green symbolized what is great about the spirit of sportsmanship. This tournament cemented these two men together. Watson's tearing up during Nicklaus' final competitive round at St. Andrews expressed the greatness of the game of golf where two combatants can bring the best out of each other with a high level of respect for one another.

If someone wants to compare where Tiger falls far short of Nicklaus it is in what matters most in life beyond the game.

driver
07-07-2012, 06:02 AM
:flower:[QUOTE]No mention of billy casper?

Yes I forgot Casper, also J. Boros, M Souchak; Don January, Cary Middlecoff, etc. If I'd listed all the great golfers of that era, I'd still be typing the original post.

Your list is generally good just not compiled accurately for the players in their prime. In no way was Nicklaus a contemporary of Snead or Hogan on a competitive level. Nicklaus turned pro in 1962. Although Snead last won in 1967 (Greensboro) at age 52. He was well past his prime when Nicklaus hit the scene.

Nicklaus was playing as an amatuer in the US open and made the cut, for the 1st time in 1958, so he has to be counted IMO.

Although, there was a slight overlap, Player and Palmer were not part of the Snead, Hogan and Nelson era. Nelson is slightly overlooked because he quit the tour at his peak at 36 yrs old.

Although, Venturi won 14 times and a major. His career was limited by injury and was not a major force in the Snead, Hogan, Nelson era or the Palmer, Nicklaus era. Demaret and Casper were significant players left off your list.
07-06-2012 07:45 AM

Overlap? How could that happen? Because us old farts can still play with the youngsters and be competitive?
A perfect example is F Couples still finishing on the leader board at 50+ years

Also I left out one of the greatest golfer who ever played Roberto De Vincenzo. Although he didn't play on the US tour very often.

Jason in LA
07-07-2012, 08:00 AM
Woods is bigger than the sport, ratings wise. He brings in more viewers than the sport does by itself.

dsmoot
07-08-2012, 05:26 AM
:flower:[QUOTE=DENVERDUI55;3615559]

Yes I forgot Casper, also J. Boros, M Souchak; Don January, Cary Middlecoff, etc. If I'd listed all the great golfers of that era, I'd still be typing the original post.

.

Nicklaus was playing as an amatuer in the US open and made the cut, for the 1st time in 1958, so he has to be counted IMO.



Overlap? How could that happen? Because us old farts can still play with the youngsters and be competitive?
A perfect example is F Couples still finishing on the leader board at 50+ years

Also I left out one of the greatest golfer who ever played Roberto De Vincenzo. Although he didn't play on the US tour very often.


You made a good original post and I don't want to start an argument. Nicklaus was not a competitor with Snead and Hogan for any measurable length of time and certainly not when Snead and Hogan were at there prime. When I talk about competitor, I mean they went head to head, both playing at a high level, numerous times over a period of years.

An example of Freddie or Watson or Norman finishing high on a leaderboard at 50 plus is exciting but even they know they can't be competitive week in and week out. And you know it too. These guys had there game on for 4 days and played on memory. It was great golf. The great thing about Watson and Fred Couples is that their golf swing looks as good today as it did when they were in their early 30's, plus they still have the competitive desire at their age. Usually, one or the other leaves almost all players. There would not be a Senior tour if players could still compete week in and week out at 50 plus. How many players shun the Senior tour for the PGA tour. NONE.

Souchak, Boros, January .... come on. These guys were very good golfers, a few majors each but not in the same company as Nicklaus, Palmer, Hogan, Snead, etc... They were not setting the standard for their era. Middlecoff was one I meant to put down when I looked at total career victories. Lema, a great golfer and is a what might have been but not usually in any elite discussion.

DeVincenzo is like Colin Montgomerie, Bobby Locke, Peter Thomson very good international golfers with incredible records but did not compete enough or well enough in the most elite tournaments to be considered at the Jones, Snead, Hogan, Nelson, Palmer, Nicklaus etc level.