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View Full Version : "Maybe we should start running routes now" OR "Huh. No wonder Tebow had no one to throw to."


houghtam
06-29-2012, 10:08 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/peyton-manning-aboard-broncos-receivers-actually-learn-routes-065559673--nfl.html

"To get to play with a future Hall of Famer, I knew I had to step my game up and get in my book more, run routes more, because I never really ran routes much. So I thought it was gonna be a challenge, and it has been so far. But it's been good, too."

"You're gonna have to run the whole route tree now. The comebacks, the slants, the posts, the ins. And I didn't have to do that much when I was my first couple of years in the league."

-- Demaryius Thomas

gyldenlove
06-29-2012, 10:26 AM
Tebow never saw a slant, in, curl or comeback he was willing to throw. Other recievers ran those routes and spend most of their time looking for a ball that would never get there because Timmy was afraid to pull the trigger on anything that wasn't wide open.

broncocalijohn
06-29-2012, 10:28 AM
To be fair, he didnt do this for Orton either. Why would you admit this?

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-29-2012, 10:35 AM
He never did it in college either.

houghtam
06-29-2012, 10:39 AM
To be fair, he didnt do this for Orton either. Why would you admit this?

Who knows. Thomas is a good physical guy, but something tells me he doesn't have much more between the ears than Brandon Marshall.

broncosteven
06-29-2012, 10:59 AM
Who knows. Thomas is a good physical guy, but something tells me he doesn't have much more between the ears than Brandon Marshall.

duhhh! he is a WR what do you expect?

WolfpackGuy
06-29-2012, 11:13 AM
I'm not reading into this too much.

We all know the history with the QB's, coaches, and offenses the last few years.

If he wasn't asked to do something, would you expect him to study for it?

v2micca
06-29-2012, 11:22 AM
I'm not reading into this too much.

We all know the history with the QB's, coaches, and offenses the last few years.

If he wasn't asked to do something, would you expect him to study for it?

So, this is going to end up being one of those litmus test things for the Pro-Tebow Anti-Tebow crowd, isn't it?

DB-Freak
06-29-2012, 11:22 AM
It's not surprising considering his college pedigree and the amount of time he missed due to injury.

And ya the whole tebow thing too.

WolfpackGuy
06-29-2012, 11:26 AM
So, this is going to end up being one of those litmus test things for the Pro-Tebow Anti-Tebow crowd, isn't it?

Probably.

Someone should start taking bets on the over/under of pages.

LOL

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-29-2012, 11:29 AM
You mean to tell me that the routes being run with Peyton Manning at QB are more extensive than the routes being run with a fullback, er, Tebow at QB?

Film at 11, I hope.

Stagger Lee
06-29-2012, 11:38 AM
Please let the season start.

Gcver2ver3
06-29-2012, 11:40 AM
Who knows. Thomas is a good physical guy, but something tells me he doesn't have much more between the ears than Brandon Marshall.

This...

DT is showing some red flags unless you just arent looking...

What does what qb you have, have to do with you knowing your route tree?...
He should have been working on his route running day one in the league...

His injury history...

His comments about tebow not throwing him the ball in a game he had 200yds receiving...

And yes... even the alleged rape accusations... its early so i hope it amounts to nothing but there ARE red flags at this point regarding DT...

broncocalijohn
06-29-2012, 11:41 AM
I'm not reading into this too much.

We all know the history with the QB's, coaches, and offenses the last few years.

If he wasn't asked to do something, would you expect him to study for it?

Well, we know he didnt bother to block for Tebow in the Jets game.

Jay3
06-29-2012, 11:42 AM
The other thing people forget is what a true "install" for a play is. To "install" a play, such that it can be included in the game plan, it has to be run by the QB, to mastery.

Tebow never had an "install" with the vast majority of the plays in the playbook. He got an estimated 5% of reps his first year, with many of those expended on a "Tebow play." When he was allowed to start as a rookie, you can just look -- that was a very limited number of pass plays even available to run. And that's not Tebow's fault, and it's not because he was a remedial case -- first year, very few reps, very little of the playbook actually available.

Then came the lockout. No OTA. No install in the offseason.

Then the lockout was lifted. Orton getting the number 1 reps, Quinn getting good sized share of the remaining reps. Complete playbook not installed with Tebow.

He gets thrown in after 5 games, and with 2 days a week practice, still not time to do midseason install of all the pass plays in the regular offense. And they used a lot of what reps they had to install plays taking advantage of Tebow's strengths (and hopefully hiding his weaknesses).

So this comment by DT (other than being kind of dumbly phrased) is also a wake up call for how little of the passing playbook actually ever got deployed with Tebow here.

But yes, I agree with DT -- he does need to "run routes more." His routes were not crisp last year, he drifted, and there wasn't enough of a reliable break to anticipate and throw it early. It fed right into Tebow's weakness (which was uncertainty and pulling the trigger). And it's not going to be acceptable to Peyton.

I think Decker is probably better on crisp routes, but worse on separation.

broncocalijohn
06-29-2012, 11:42 AM
You mean to tell me that the routes being run with Peyton Manning at QB are more extensive than the routes being run with a fullback, er, Tebow at QB?

Film at 11, I hope.

To be fair Orton honk, he didnt do it for Orton either. What does that say about either DT or Orton who is a pro style QB?

theAPAOps5
06-29-2012, 11:43 AM
Logic it will be rediculed

Tebow never saw a slant, in, curl or comeback he was willing to throw. Other recievers ran those routes and spend most of their time looking for a ball that would never get there because Timmy was afraid to pull the trigger on anything that wasn't wide open.

Requiem
06-29-2012, 11:53 AM
Based on the type of offense Thomas was in at Georgia Tech, this shouldn't come as a surprise. Refining routes, learning the whole tree, etc. was something he was going to eventually have to progress with in the NFL. Situations made thigns a little different, but he will get better. Him and Manning are gonna go together like lamb and tuna fish.

Lestat
06-29-2012, 11:53 AM
how is this news? McDaniels benched him in his rookie year after a pretty nice game because he ran the wrong route in a game.

route running was one of the main issues for Thomas coming into the league as he came from a option offense, but it was assumed he would make the adjustment since Calvin Johnson did.

Tebow was bad at reads and even when a good route was ran he missed them at times.
all the players from last years team need to improve, this is a non story.

BroncoBeavis
06-29-2012, 11:54 AM
Based on the type of offense Thomas was in at Georgia Tech, this shouldn't come as a surprise.

Oh sweet sweet irony.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-29-2012, 11:55 AM
To be fair Orton honk, he didnt do it for Orton either. What does that say about either DT or Orton who is a pro style QB?

Are you talking to me?

Not an Orton honk, but it's nice to know your same bull**** narrative is still around.

Also, going from Orton to Manning isn't a difference for you? "Pro Style QB" doesn't mean "Good QB," and I think you'd realize that.

jutang
06-29-2012, 11:57 AM
I hope DT doesn't become another clown like Marshall but it is not looking promising. Maybe he is getting quoted out of context... Maybe he needs to learn to how to interview better. Plenty of good people can look like idiots or jerks because they don't phrase their words properly for the press.

It would be ironic that the FO passed on Dez Bryant for character issues and ended up getting Marshall part II.

DBroncos4life
06-29-2012, 12:11 PM
The fact that Thomas didn't any real routes in college is exactly why I wanted Bryant over him.

Lestat
06-29-2012, 12:14 PM
The fact that Thomas didn't any real routes in college is exactly why I wanted Bryant over him.

this was part of why i wanted Bryant as well, plus the return and deep play factor.
that said, so far, DT is looking like a better pro in terms of overall scope(though the off the field leaving his date to get raped thing sticks out like a sore thumb)

jutang
06-29-2012, 12:17 PM
In hindsight, Royal over Jackson due to character issues also has not panned out. Loved Royal (him and Dennis Allen are now dead to me) and thought he was a good player, but he is not at Jackson's level. Only time Jackson was a distraction was his contract dispute.

Bacchus
06-29-2012, 12:24 PM
Tebow never saw a slant, in, curl or comeback he was willing to throw. Other recievers ran those routes and spend most of their time looking for a ball that would never get there because Timmy was afraid to pull the trigger on anything that wasn't wide open.

Quoted for truth.

Bacchus
06-29-2012, 12:27 PM
To be fair, he didnt do this for Orton either. Why would you admit this?

Coming out of college route running was a weakness for him that is for sure. Last year obviously did not help his development in that area. With Manning at QB these WRs better run great routes or there will be INTs thrown and they will not be starting.

To be a Manning WR you do not have to be a great pass catcher, tall or fast. What you have to do is run great routes, because that ball is vcoming out on time and if you aren't where you are supossed to be it will piss Manning off.

ward63
06-29-2012, 01:20 PM
This is his 4th year coming from a college where his route tree was a go-route and every now and then, a skinny post. He's been through his rookie season, 2 (now 3) qbs, a lockout, some injuries and now is coming into his own. I think that its a pretty good progression so far. We all know Orton had a love fest will Lloyd as well. And I like Tebow but we all knew his deficiencies as a passer. I'm really excited to see how DT and Decker will be with a great QB!

I know Burger Bill isn't a great "insider" or writer even, but one thing about LT2 is true. We want athletes to tell the truth and when they do, we bash them for it. I'm glad DT was honest and hopefully Peyton can point him in the right direction.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-29-2012, 01:58 PM
Ah guys. You guys know that a lot of routes on the route tree are based on a timing release patterns, e.i. 3 and 5 step drops. Tebow doesn't know how to drop back.

I bet you couldn't identify which routes are timing required or not.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/images/plays/Route_Tree.png

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-29-2012, 02:01 PM
Lmao at Tebow doesn't know how to drop back.

broncosteven
06-29-2012, 02:02 PM
...
I bet you couldn't identify which routes are timing required or not.
...

This is the INteRnETS! I can do anything on the iNtErnETS!

bronco militia
06-29-2012, 02:05 PM
http://www.televisioninternet.com/news/pictures/OCHO-CINCO.jpg

football'n route's is hard .....hurrrrr

R-Mac
06-29-2012, 02:50 PM
So, these receivers never worked on their route running when Orton was the quarterback?

chickennob2
06-29-2012, 03:02 PM
He never did it in college either.

The triple option offense does seem to limit the number of routes a receiver is asked to run...

KevinJames
06-29-2012, 03:09 PM
Don't see what the big deal is Calvin Johnson wasn't much a route runner his first 3 years in the league sure he wasn't as raw as DT but hes developed his game a lot. Route running can be picked up if you have a talent at WR. It takes hard work not really a whole lot beyond that & as we seen with DT and his rehab hes a hard worker.:thumbs:

I think what he was saying is there weren't really actual route trees being ran w/ Tebow at QB it was either a vertical route if no one was open it turned into a scramble drill to get open.

broncosteven
06-29-2012, 03:20 PM
Don't see what the big deal is Calvin Johnson wasn't much a route runner his first 3 years in the league sure he wasn't as raw as DT but hes developed his game a lot. Route running can be picked up if you have a talent at WR. It takes hard work not really a whole lot beyond that & as we seen with DT and his rehab hes a hard worker.:thumbs:

I think what he was saying is there weren't really actual route trees being ran w/ Tebow at QB it was either a vertical route if no one was open it turned into a scramble drill to get open.

I think getting separation is harder than running routes. IMO

fdf
06-29-2012, 03:38 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/peyton-manning-aboard-broncos-receivers-actually-learn-routes-065559673--nfl.html



-- Demaryius Thomas

So what was it in the huddle: "Everyone go out and I'll run it"?

kappys
06-29-2012, 03:59 PM
So, these receivers never worked on their route running when Orton was the quarterback?

Only so many routes you can run when the QB can't throw past 15 yards

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-29-2012, 04:21 PM
So what was it in the huddle: "Everyone go out and I'll run it"?

And people wonder why there were so many drops.

GreatBronco16
06-29-2012, 04:49 PM
Only so many routes you can run when the QB can't throw past 15 yards

Not many routes to run when you're gameplanning to throw the ball only 10% of the time.:giggle:

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-29-2012, 04:55 PM
Not many routes to run when you're gameplanning to throw the ball only 10% of the time.:giggle:

If it looked horrible in practice why throw it into the gameplan? Jets found out and told him to put on weight cause he's changing positions.

Cool Breeze
06-29-2012, 04:56 PM
In hindsight, Royal over Jackson due to character issues also has not panned out. Loved Royal (him and Dennis Allen are now dead to me) and thought he was a good player, but he is not at Jackson's level. Only time Jackson was a distraction was his contract dispute.


Pleading guilty to 2 DUI's and driving w/ a suspended license are not distractions. Just ask Knowshon or DJ...:rofl:

Jason7730
06-29-2012, 04:57 PM
^LOL

broncocalijohn
06-29-2012, 04:59 PM
Not many routes to run when you're gameplanning to throw the ball only 10% of the time.:giggle:

Chill Tebowite, he was speaking about Orton not being able to throw over 15 yards.

houghtam
06-29-2012, 05:21 PM
I love it. Our wide receiver admits to not learning the offense and it's Tebow's fault. Now if only Tebow Dean Perry had gotten off the field in time, and Tebow Griese hadn't thrown an INT causing Tebow Davis' knee to explode, the Broncos would have won 4 Super Bowls in a row.

Shananahan
06-29-2012, 05:23 PM
Please let the season start.
Yeah, these threads are brutal.

Archer81
06-29-2012, 05:59 PM
More concerned about Thomas' inability to run routes then Tebow's 2011 season.

Plus, Tebow is gone. That chapter is closed.

FFS.

:Broncos:

gunns
06-29-2012, 06:22 PM
Tebow never saw a slant, in, curl or comeback he was willing to throw. Other recievers ran those routes and spend most of their time looking for a ball that would never get there because Timmy was afraid to pull the trigger on anything that wasn't wide open.

This. I have never been a big fan of Thomas but I would have hated to be one of the WR's with Tebow because they took the blunt of the blame for not knowing where or if a ball was coming their way. Probably what Lloyd saw coming when he wanted out. As far as doing it with Orton, Thomas only started 2 games, played in 10 and was a rookie.

elsid13
06-29-2012, 06:27 PM
how is this news? McDaniels benched him in his rookie year after a pretty nice game because he ran the wrong route in a game.

route running was one of the main issues for Thomas coming into the league as he came from a option offense, but it was assumed he would make the adjustment since Calvin Johnson did.

Tebow was bad at reads and even when a good route was ran he missed them at times.
all the players from last years team need to improve, this is a non story.

Johnson never played in the current GT offense. He played under Chan Gailey not Paul Johnson.

DenverBrit
06-29-2012, 06:29 PM
DT will be fine now he has a QB.

hambone13
06-29-2012, 07:10 PM
Don't see what the big deal is Calvin Johnson wasn't much a route runner his first 3 years in the league sure he wasn't as raw as DT but hes developed his game a lot. Route running can be picked up if you have a talent at WR. It takes hard work not really a whole lot beyond that & as we seen with DT and his rehab hes a hard worker.:thumbs:

I think what he was saying is there weren't really actual route trees being ran w/ Tebow at QB it was either a vertical route if no one was open it turned into a scramble drill to get open.

He's a hard worker but he certainly lacks talent in the IQ department. Dumb as a stump.

Jay3
06-29-2012, 07:12 PM
Only so many routes you can run when the QB can't throw past 15 yards

I don't get this -- Tebow can't complete the quick, short passes within 15 yards. He led the NFL in the rate at which he attempted long passes, and he was second in the NFL in the number of long passes completed. You've got it bass ackwards.

Jay3
06-29-2012, 07:13 PM
Chill Tebowite, he was speaking about Orton not being able to throw over 15 yards.

Oh.

Seems like Orton could. Oh, well.

Jay3
06-29-2012, 07:15 PM
I think getting separation is harder than running routes. IMO

I'm not a player, but this idea of "route running" always puzzled me. They say of a player "he's a good route runner." Or "he's great with speed and catching, but he's not a good route runner." Or "Steve Largent was slow and un-athletic, but he could run great routes!"

Man, I would run the crap out of some routes. I'd be all "look at me, coach! I'm running the route!" Or, "hey coach, can we go over what that route is again?"

I know it must be hard. But it seems like if your fast, athletic, and can catch, the route running would just naturally come.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-29-2012, 07:16 PM
I don't get this -- Tebow can't complete the quick, short passes within 15 yards. He led the NFL in the rate at which he attempted long passes, and he was second in the NFL in the number of long passes completed. You've got it bass ackwards.

Because its a low percentage play.

Jay3
06-29-2012, 07:19 PM
Because its a low percentage play.

Yeah, I thought he was saying Tebow could only complete passes within 15 yards.

When in fact, those passes (or the lack thereof) are the ones that made me throw my show at the TV and yell "Throw the freaking ball!!!"

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-29-2012, 07:49 PM
I'm not a player, but this idea of "route running" always puzzled me. They say of a player "he's a good route runner." Or "he's great with speed and catching, but he's not a good route runner." Or "Steve Largent was slow and un-athletic, but he could run great routes!"

Man, I would run the crap out of some routes. I'd be all "look at me, coach! I'm running the route!" Or, "hey coach, can we go over what that route is again?"

I know it must be hard. But it seems like if your fast, athletic, and can catch, the route running would just naturally come.

:facepalm: Its the route and the way the WR runners the routes that creates the separation. Great example is Jerry Rice. At the combine he ran a 4.58(I think). What got him separation was the way he ran the route. Whether he was running the corner, out, or dig. Jerry Rice would make each look exactly alike. That when you start to make combo routes like "slug-o" and "wheel" routes for big plays.

houghtam
06-29-2012, 08:13 PM
:facepalm: Its the route and the way the WR runners the routes that creates the separation. Great example is Jerry Rice. At the combine he ran a 4.58(I think). What got him separation was the way he ran the route. Whether he was running the corner, out, or dig. Jerry Rice would make each look exactly alike. That when you start to make combo routes like "slug-o" and "wheel" routes for big plays.

Also important to note that if you don't run your route properly, you can affect whether or not the other WRs get open as well.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-29-2012, 08:31 PM
Also important to note that if you don't run your route properly, you can affect whether or not the other WRs get open as well.

I'm more of a west coast guy where every WR in the pattern is important. Not saying there should never be, or never had.

Broncos4tw
06-29-2012, 09:45 PM
What a laugh.

Receivers had no choice buy to run around playground style to make up for Tebow's lack of vision and scrambling, as soon as he got a whiff of anyone within 5 yards of him. This is a blow to Tebow, NOT the receivers. Our receivers couldn't play NFL style football because of Tebow - they had to revert to a college style offense to make it work at all.

Spider
06-29-2012, 10:10 PM
I'm not a player, but this idea of "route running" always puzzled me. They say of a player "he's a good route runner." Or "he's great with speed and catching, but he's not a good route runner." Or "Steve Largent was slow and un-athletic, but he could run great routes!"

Man, I would run the crap out of some routes. I'd be all "look at me, coach! I'm running the route!" Or, "hey coach, can we go over what that route is again?"

I know it must be hard. But it seems like if your fast, athletic, and can catch, the route running would just naturally come.

Running routes is hard except for fly routes ...if you dont have Randy Moss speed you can give a quick double move .....some guys can cut on a dime and give you some change others cant

Spider
06-29-2012, 10:13 PM
What a laugh.

Receivers had no choice buy to run around playground style to make up for Tebow's lack of vision and scrambling, as soon as he got a whiff of anyone within 5 yards of him. This is a blow to Tebow, NOT the receivers. Our receivers couldn't play NFL style football because of Tebow - they had to revert to a college style offense to make it work at all.

This right here Tebow wouldnt know a fly route from a skinny post much less a sluggo route

CEH
06-30-2012, 07:34 AM
Rookie WRs typically struggle in the first year. DT was decleated in BALT when McDumass put him back on KO. Still had a very good first year showing flashes of brillance and one of the best first games ever for a Denver Bronco vs SEA

24.9 ypc his first year then the issues with the achilles he never played with Orton again and had to play in the route challenged tree that Tebow's offense provides. I'd say 90 % of Tebow's passes were outside the hash meaning the WR either catches it and goes out of bounds or the pass is incomplete.

This is what DT is talking about. He's also bias toward Tebow so he will have to put up or shut up this year. I think he puts up

Plus DT get's no slack for his college style of offense yet we want to give Tebow 3 years and a tutor in Mazzone.

Want to see what Mazzone can do just look at Brock and Tim this year in TC to see which on in a shorter period of time has a better throwing motion

Hulamau
06-30-2012, 08:46 AM
I hope DT doesn't become another clown like Marshall but it is not looking promising. Maybe he is getting quoted out of context... Maybe he needs to learn to how to interview better. Plenty of good people can look like idiots or jerks because they don't phrase their words properly for the press.

It would be ironic that the FO passed on Dez Bryant for character issues and ended up getting Marshall part II.

DT isn't BMII, Marshall always knew how to smooze the media ... Well mostly anyway. DT grew up without his crack ho mom and grand ma and no father influence so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to imagine he might be a little stunted socially and when it comes to diction and 'saying the right thing' .. I think his main issue so far is in being too naively blunt and honest about how he feels or sees the question to these news guys and likely the main thing he needs is the Bronco PR crew to give him better guidance on how to Respond to media questions...

Like the comments DT made about Tebow a couple months ago about not passing to him as much ... when you listened to the on air interview it was easy to see what he was really saying while also praising Tebow as well.. It was Dmac and Al that egged him on to spill the beans on how much better it feels having a hall of fame QB throwing him the ball rather than Timmy- Terrific...

The print press reports and blog world as well as ESPN made him sound far more negative as if he was intentionally throwing Tebow under the bus when that was not at all how the conversation actually unfolded...

DT isn't the brightest lamp in the forest, and hopefully the Parrish Cox incident was a wake up call for the kind of company he associates with,
But this seems far more about a normally shy kid from the wrong side of the tracks suddenly being thrust into the limelight from his considerable physical talent and not yet having gotten the memo on how to entertain the press while not inadvertantly sticking his foot in his mouth ... Something that many far better educated and more savvy characters than DT obviously haven't learned so far as well...

Same thing here, DT is talking mostly about being off the practice field so much the first two years, not to mention the lockout last year and by the time he could really start playing again at all, Tebow was suddenly the QB and it was mostly free lance on the fly route running in any event , that is what DT is trying to convey, not that he was a deliberate slacker on learning routes his coaches assigned him to learn ... Just that until now there hasn't been the concentrated focus on having to perfect that part of his game..

A lot more smoke here than any fire ...

GreasyQtip
06-30-2012, 09:11 AM
DT isn't BMII, Marshall always knew how to smooze the media ... Well mostly anyway. DT grew up without his crack ho mom and grand ma and no father influence so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to imagine he might be a little stunted socially and when it comes to diction and 'saying the right thing' .. I think his main issue so far is in being too naively blunt and honest about how he feels or sees the question to these news guys and likely the main thing he needs is the Bronco PR crew to give him better guidance on how to Respond to media questions...

Like the comments DT made about Tebow a couple months ago about not passing to him as much ... when you listened to the on air interview it was easy to see what he was really saying while also praising Tebow as well.. It was Dmac and Al that egged him on to spill the beans on how much better it feels having a hall of fame QB throwing him the ball rather than Timmy- Terrific...

The print press reports and blog world as well as ESPN made him sound far more negative as if he was intentionally throwing Tebow under the bus when that was not at all how the conversation actually unfolded...

DT isn't the brightest lamp in the forest, and hopefully the Parrish Cox incident was a wake up call for the kind of company he associates with,
But this seems far more about a normally shy kid from the wrong side of the tracks suddenly being thrust into the limelight from his considerable physical talent and not yet having gotten the memo on how to entertain the press while not inadvertantly sticking his foot in his mouth ... Something that many far better educated and more savvy characters than DT obviously haven't learned so far as well...

Same thing here, DT is talking mOstly about being off the practice field so much the first two years, not to mention the lockout last year and by the time he could really start playing again at all, Tebow was suddenly the QB and it was mostly free lance on the fly route running in any event , that is what sdSt is trying to convey, not that he was a deliberate slacker on learning routes his coaches assigned him to learn ... Just that until now there hasn't been the concentrated focus on having to perfect that part of his game..

A lot more smoke here than any fire ...

This is the truth.

Every time he opens his mouth I cringe, he is not good at explaining things publicly. It reminds me of the way Cris Carter explained why Randy Moss is misunderstood outside of his home town and close friends because his west virginia raising.

Although after I read these comments I was just about ready to jump on the man this guy is stupid band wagon, you steered me back to reality, and I do want honesty, just not from players on my team.

Hulamau
06-30-2012, 09:51 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d82a3b321/Whose-fault-that-Demaryius-Thomas-didn-t-know-routes

This is what I'm talking about ... Kurt and Charles have it pretty much right. A lot more smoke here than anything to worry about, DT just needs an off-season with a PR and diction coach .. well maybe a few off-seasons in a row :-).

The nervous-nelly crowd is ready to tar and feather him. He's basically a hired thoroughbred horse, and obviously will never be mistaken for a phi beta kappa... he'll get the WR thing down pat, I have little doubt, assuming he stays healthy. The rest is mostly off season doldrums media white noise...

jutang
06-30-2012, 10:07 AM
I'm sure everyone here is pulling for DT. He has had his injuries like Moreno but has overcome them and made some very clutch catches at big moments in the game. Having such a cerebral QB that demands excellence is the best thing for DT to concentrate on work and avoid getting into trouble with characters like Cox.

DT foot in mouth quotes always have happened after the fact. He never bashed how the offense was ran last year and never had a critical quote of Tebow until after he left. DT needs to learn quickly on what and what not to say to the media.

ZONA
06-30-2012, 11:09 AM
Ah guys. You guys know that a lot of routes on the route tree are based on a timing release patterns, e.i. 3 and 5 step drops. Tebow doesn't know how to drop back.

I bet you couldn't identify which routes are timing required or not.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/images/plays/Route_Tree.png

Never heard of the Fade route. I always thought that was called the Fly route.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-30-2012, 11:24 AM
Never heard of the Fade route. I always thought that was called the Fly route.

Its got a lot of different names. Some call it "flag", "jet", "arrow". The name isn't important, its what it looks like. If a WR can make a "dig" and "corner" look alike, that's when you setup corner for the "wheel"(which is a "dig" and "fade" combo route).

Bacchus
06-30-2012, 11:51 AM
I'm sure everyone here is pulling for DT. He has had his injuries like Moreno but has overcome them and made some very clutch catches at big moments in the game. Having such a cerebral QB that demands excellence is the best thing for DT to concentrate on work and avoid getting into trouble with characters like Cox.

DT foot in mouth quotes always have happened after the fact. He never bashed how the offense was ran last year and never had a critical quote of Tebow until after he left. DT needs to learn quickly on what and what not to say to the media.

I'm pulling for the Broncos. I think DT is an idiot. I'd just assume they win the SB without him.

barryr
06-30-2012, 12:16 PM
"Getting into a playbook" should be pretty automatic for any player, so it is embarrassing for Thomas to both not have done so and admitting it in public as well. Not sure why you would admit you didn't prepare for your job so everyone sees that. Hopefully he has grown up and getting the idea he needs to get better and knowing what he's supposed to do might help. Some of these players just don't know when to shut up and just play.

lolcopter
06-30-2012, 12:19 PM
this was part of why i wanted Bryant as well, plus the return and deep play factor.
that said, so far, DT is looking like a better pro in terms of overall scope(though the off the field leaving his date to get raped thing sticks out like a sore thumb)

wat

i'm a huge homer myself but i don't know where this is coming from

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-30-2012, 02:35 PM
this was part of why i wanted Bryant as well, plus the return and deep play factor.
that said, so far, DT is looking like a better pro in terms of overall scope(though the off the field leaving his date to get raped thing sticks out like a sore thumb)

Woow there buddy. DT is a way better human being than B Marsh. But better pro?

That wasn't his date. Some chicks you meet at a bar and take back to your buddy's place is not what makes a "date".

Bacchus
06-30-2012, 06:02 PM
Woow there buddy. DT is a way better human being than B Marsh. But better pro?

That wasn't his date. Some chicks you meet at a bar and take back to your buddy's place is not what makes a "date".

First of all he did not meet them at the bar they new these girls for awhile. They gave them date raped drug (allegedly) and took them to Cox's apartment. DT admits to fingering the girl while she was passed out. He also admits to moving her to the bed so Cox could rape her while she slept. I do not know how you can say he is a "Way" better human being than Marshall. As of right now I'd say they are neck and neck.

CEH
06-30-2012, 06:13 PM
First of all he did not meet them at the bar they new these girls for awhile. They gave them date raped drug (allegedly) and took them to Cox's apartment. DT admits to fingering the girl while she was passed out. He also admits to moving her to the bed so Cox could rape her while she slept. I do not know how you can say he is a "Way" better human being than Marshall. As of right now I'd say they are neck and neck.

Have the tesitmony transcripts depicting what you just said about DT. That is not what I have read about Thomas' involment. I think he just fooled around a little with a drunk girl. I'd be willing to change my opinion if I can see something to the contrary

Bacchus
06-30-2012, 06:15 PM
Have the tesitmony transcripts depicting what you just said about DT. That is not what I have read about Thomas' involment. I think he just fooled around a little with a drunk girl. I'd be willing to change my opinion if I can see something to the contrary

Yeah, they were posted on here. It was the girls' lawyers account of what happened but he including things in there that DT admitted to doing. I forgot what thread it was though.

CEH
06-30-2012, 06:52 PM
Yeah, they were posted on here. It was the girls' lawyers account of what happened but he including things in there that DT admitted to doing. I forgot what thread it was though.

The DPO account was that Cox carried the girl to his bedroom. The only think I can find about DT's tesimoney was that he fooled around a little with the girl on an air matteress in the living room and brought up "girl on girl" action

I'm not ready to put DT up there with BM.

Jay3
06-30-2012, 06:59 PM
:facepalm: Its the route and the way the WR runners the routes that creates the separation. Great example is Jerry Rice. At the combine he ran a 4.58(I think). What got him separation was the way he ran the route. Whether he was running the corner, out, or dig. Jerry Rice would make each look exactly alike. That when you start to make combo routes like "slug-o" and "wheel" routes for big plays.

I'm aware, I've been following football all my life. Just pointing out it seems funny to me that it ends being such a difference maker. Implied in my point is that I know it is a difference-maker.

With my luck, I'd be that guy that's huge, fast, can catch, but couldn't run routes.

By the way -- this is a legit concern with DT.

vanbrugh
06-30-2012, 07:18 PM
I love tebows moxy! But he will never be able to throw a timing route with that wind up! The route tree was savaged because of this last year!

BroncoMan4ever
06-30-2012, 07:38 PM
I'm not a player, but this idea of "route running" always puzzled me. They say of a player "he's a good route runner." Or "he's great with speed and catching, but he's not a good route runner." Or "Steve Largent was slow and un-athletic, but he could run great routes!"

Man, I would run the crap out of some routes. I'd be all "look at me, coach! I'm running the route!" Or, "hey coach, can we go over what that route is again?"

I know it must be hard. But it seems like if your fast, athletic, and can catch, the route running would just naturally come.

i think route running is a type of work ethic. Rod Smith was one of the best route runners of the last 20 years, and he had an incredible work ethic. for guys who have the incredible physical and athletic attributes their work ethic seems to be somewhat lower as they can get by on natural attributes. guys who don't have the great physical and athletic attributes it comes down to work ethic and going as hard as you can every play and mastering techniques and skills others take for granted to put yourself in position to be a key figure on your team.

route running can be learned, but it takes discipline and a solid work ethic to become good at it.

DT seems like a good guy, maybe a bit dumb, but his career and this season is going to come down to how hard he is going to work. he has the physical and athletic attributes, now it is just a matter of whether or not he will develop the mental to make himself into a force in the league. Peyton won't seek him out much as a primary option in the passing game if DT is running ****ty routes, isn't where he should be or is taking plays off. this season will determine whether DT is a long term possibility for this team or a guy who needs to be replaced.




also, when the hell did DT admit to fingering an unconscious skank or putting her on a bed for Cox to rape? had he truly admitted to that he would be in prison right now.

Broncos_OTM
06-30-2012, 07:41 PM
id really like to see if DT was fingerings the girl. wouldn't they have found him guilty or something. if he did. this ...consider me a part of a mob that will cry until he's out of town

Jay3
06-30-2012, 08:00 PM
They made out while she was conscious. I don't think he ever admitted fingering her when she was unconscious. He made the "girl on girl" action comment while she was conscious.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-30-2012, 08:04 PM
I'm aware, I've been following football all my life. Just pointing out it seems funny to me that it ends being such a difference maker. Implied in my point is that I know it is a difference-maker.

With my luck, I'd be that guy that's huge, fast, can catch, but couldn't run routes.

By the way -- this is a legit concern with DT.

Totally legit. DT problem will be inexperience in selling the routes, and draw backs of being so big and fast and rounding his routes.

Don't worry about that coaches that get paid millions make the same mistakes.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-30-2012, 08:47 PM
id really like to see if DT was fingerings the girl. wouldn't they have found him guilty or something. if he did. this ...consider me a part of a mob that will cry until he's out of town

This story isn't adding up. If DT admitted to "fingering" her while she was passed out, that would me he admitted to sexual assault. That means that testimony must have come from the victim. But if she is passed out how could she know what was happening to her?

lonestar
06-30-2012, 08:50 PM
To be fair, he didn't do this for Orton either. Why would you admit this?

I've said in other threads it was a pretty dumb thing to say.. especially with the QB that is throwing you the ball listening..

You want him to have all the confidence in the world in you..

Does anyone else think that he was just bumped down the "look" list each time Manning drops back to pass..

BroncoMan4ever
06-30-2012, 09:03 PM
I've said in other threads it was a pretty dumb thing to say.. especially with the QB that is throwing you the ball listening..

You want him to have all the confidence in the world in you..

Does anyone else think that he was just bumped down the "look" list each time Manning drops back to pass..

lack of proper clarification is how i am interpreting his comments.

to me, his saying i need to be in shape to run this offense, was him saying poorly, "i need to get back to doing the things i need to, to be an NFL receiver" because over last season he was a downfield blocker more than a receiver and because of that he wasn't necessarily doing all the little things to be a receiving weapon.

his route running comment wasn't saying "i don't know what the routes are" it was saying, "i now have a QB that can make all the throws and i need to get better at running the routes i never had to because prior QBs for this team couldn't make all the throws that would necessitate running all routes."

lonestar
06-30-2012, 09:08 PM
lack of proper clarification is how i am interpreting his comments.

to me, his saying i need to be in shape to run this offense, was him saying poorly, "i need to get back to doing the things i need to, to be an NFL receiver" because over last season he was a downfield blocker more than a receiver and because of that he wasn't necessarily doing all the little things to be a receiving weapon.

his route running comment wasn't saying "i don't know what the routes are" it was saying, "i now have a QB that can make all the throws and i need to get better at running the routes i never had to because prior QBs for this team couldn't make all the throws that would necessitate running all routes."


It has been pretty clear in his comments that he NEVER learned the route tree from college on.. because he was only used in long throws..

Now he has a zero tolreance from his HOF QB but to be able to run precise routes..

Most folks here are trying to excuse his lack of exprience because the QB's he has played with could not throw the routes..



now there will be zero excuse for his ability to KNOW it and DO it..

Time will tell..

BroncoMan4ever
06-30-2012, 10:33 PM
It has been pretty clear in his comments that he NEVER learned the route tree from college on.. because he was only used in long throws..

Now he has a zero tolreance from his HOF QB but to be able to run precise routes..

Most folks here are trying to excuse his lack of exprience because the QB's he has played with could not throw the routes..



now there will be zero excuse for his ability to KNOW it and DO it..

Time will tell..



"You're gonna have to run the whole route tree now. The comebacks, the slants, the posts, the ins. And I didn't have to do that much when I was my first couple of years in the league."


he says it right there, i have to run the whole route tree now. meaning there are routes he was asked to run, but it wasn't the entire route tree. if Peyton really overlooks the guy because he is learning things he never had to because of mediocre play from the QBs he played with, than he isn't as bright as we are thinking.

Bacchus
06-30-2012, 10:43 PM
lack of proper clarification is how i am interpreting his comments.

to me, his saying i need to be in shape to run this offense, was him saying poorly, "i need to get back to doing the things i need to, to be an NFL receiver" because over last season he was a downfield blocker more than a receiver and because of that he wasn't necessarily doing all the little things to be a receiving weapon.

his route running comment wasn't saying "i don't know what the routes are" it was saying, "i now have a QB that can make all the throws and i need to get better at running the routes i never had to because prior QBs for this team couldn't make all the throws that would necessitate running all routes."

Yes, that is how I took it as well. DT's route running was the weakest part of his game coming out of college but I think with Manning here demanding him to get better at he will. That is the Manning factor.

razorwire77
06-30-2012, 10:48 PM
This is going to be a fun thread to bump when Thomas goes for 80-1240-11 next year. Last I checked Randy Moss wasn't exactly Steve Largent when it came to the route tree.

Thomas + 9 route + Hold your hand up = profit.

houghtam
06-30-2012, 10:54 PM
he says it right there, i have to run the whole route tree now. meaning there are routes he was asked to run, but it wasn't the entire route tree. if Peyton really overlooks the guy because he is learning things he never had to because of mediocre play from the QBs he played with, than he isn't as bright as we are thinking.

Yeah, he also says he needs to get in his book more, because he never really ran routes.

I need to know how to spin that in case anyone asks. Suggestions?

Bacchus
06-30-2012, 11:04 PM
This is from NFL.com


Demaryius Thomas will step up for Broncos -- or else

By Marc Sessler
Writer

Demaryius Thomas will step up -- or else
Making the Leap
Here's the mind-set Demaryius Thomas grapples with as September nears:

"Every time I make a mistake, I get mad at myself because I know Peyton (Manning) is counting on me," Thomas told ESPN.com last week. "I have to be good. Peyton picked the Broncos, and I have to make him know he made the right choice."

Thomas wasn't huddled in a darkened closet when he uttered these words, and he shouldn't be. The Denver Broncos third-year wideout has inspired praise from Manning himself.

"He's had a productive OTA session and minicamp," Manning said. "I think he's running his routes with a lot of confidence and making a lot of tough catches."

Thomas did what he could with his chances last season, but he was targeted about as frequently as Zane Beadles in the Tim Tebow-led read-option offense. It wasn't all bad. When we last checked in with Thomas, he was on the receiving end of Tebow's 80-yard scoring strike in overtime of Denver's wild-card victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers. But that play, and his totals that day -- four catches for 204 yards and the TD -- weren't typical of his Sundays in 2011.

Thomas wasn't heartbroken to see Tebow shipped east in March, but the addition of Manning presents a new dilemma. Along with Eric Decker and Denver's less-than-stunning cast of wideouts, Thomas must live up to Manning's expectations.




the rest of the article plus video.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82a2b6be/article/demaryius-thomas-will-step-up-for-broncos-or-else?module=HP11_hot_topics

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-30-2012, 11:07 PM
This is going to be a fun thread to bump when Thomas goes for 80-1240-11 next year. Last I checked Randy Moss wasn't exactly Steve Largent when it came to the route tree.

Thomas + 9 route + Hold your hand up = profit.

Nobody has the leaping ability and hand-eye coordination that Randy had. DT has a lot of it. We can only hope at this point of the season.

razorwire77
06-30-2012, 11:20 PM
Nobody has the leaping ability and hand-eye coordination that Randy had. DT has a lot of it. We can only hope at this point of the season.

Good point. I do think he has 90 percent of Randy's leaping ability and 85 percent of his straight line speed which is enough to put up gigantic numbers if both he and Peyton can stay healthy.

BroncoMan4ever
06-30-2012, 11:21 PM
Yeah, he also says he needs to get in his book more, because he never really ran routes.

I need to know how to spin that in case anyone asks. Suggestions?

"To get to play with a future Hall of Famer, I knew I had to step my game up and get in my book more, run routes more, because I never really ran routes much. So I thought it was gonna be a challenge, and it has been so far. But it's been good, too."


getting in the book and route running are 2 different points.

get his book means, "i really need to study up this playbook since more than just the running game is going to be used. "

BroncoMan4ever
06-30-2012, 11:25 PM
This is going to be a fun thread to bump when Thomas goes for 80-1240-11 next year. Last I checked Randy Moss wasn't exactly Steve Largent when it came to the route tree.

Thomas + 9 route + Hold your hand up = profit.

i agree. DT is going to have a monster year. i'd change the reception total to about 70 though. yardage and TDs stay the same, but with Decker, Caldwell, Stokley, Dreesen, Tamme and our backs, we have a lot of targets for probably around 350 total catches this season.

razorwire77
06-30-2012, 11:26 PM
I do know if Manning is Manning, and either Decker or Thomas put up pedestrian numbers, it's probably time to cut ties. However, I don't think that's going to happen. My guess is we get 1000 yard 70+ reception years from both of them.

WolfpackGuy
07-01-2012, 10:11 AM
I don't remember anyone in IND having that run after the catch ability that Thomas has.

Should be a great year for him if he's where he's supposed to be and can stay healthy.

Bacchus
07-01-2012, 01:47 PM
I don't remember anyone in IND having that run after the catch ability that Thomas has.

Should be a great year for him if he's where he's supposed to be and can stay healthy.

Indi also never had the drop before you catch guy like DT either.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-01-2012, 01:48 PM
Come on people. This is a thread about the persecution of Tim Tebow. Let's get on topic again, please.

Bacchus
07-01-2012, 01:49 PM
Come on people. This is a thread about the persecution of Tim Tebow. Let's get on topic again, please.

The Jets punt protector guy?

lonestar
07-01-2012, 02:33 PM
he says it right there, i have to run the whole route tree now. meaning there are routes he was asked to run, but it wasn't the entire route tree. if Peyton really overlooks the guy because he is learning things he never had to because of mediocre play from the QBs he played with, than he isn't as bright as we are thinking.

What I said is IF DT or for that matter any WR does not run the routes correctly he will not be looked at by Manning, if you have not noticed he is a perfectionist and that is what made him the HOF QB he is..

How many times did PM force the O to run a play again it OTAs because they did not get it right..

PM is probably the smartest guy on the field if not the stadium when it comes to Offense..


If you really think PM is not smart then you have been asleep since he got here.. He does not care who the QB's were before him nor how or if the routes were run correctly.. He simply will not tolerate someone not running the routes he needs them to he will look at other targets first..

lonestar
07-01-2012, 02:42 PM
Yeah, he also says he needs to get in his book more, because he never really ran routes.

I need to know how to spin that in case anyone asks. Suggestions?

Everyone is so intent on blaming the QB's the past couple of years they can't see the forest for the trees..

The QB's had nothing to do with him not knowing the route tree nor running crisp routes..

He has been preparing for the NFL since HS.. Some seven PLUS years he has had to learn it and practice it.. Whether someone could throw to it or not.. Or whether his coaches insisted on it or not..

Not knowing how to run all the routes precisely probably cost him several million dollars as he may have been drafted much earlier in the draft..

But then we will never know..

lonestar
07-01-2012, 02:46 PM
I don't remember anyone in IND having that run after the catch ability that Thomas has.

Should be a great year for him if he's where he's supposed to be and can stay healthy.

Marvin Harrison, Wayne, Stokley.. come to mind without even looking at the old rosters and then of course #44 who killed us all the time..

BroncoMan4ever
07-01-2012, 02:48 PM
What I said is IF DT or for that matter any WR does not run the routes correctly he will not be looked at by Manning, if you have not noticed he is a perfectionist and that is what made him the HOF QB he is..

How many times did PM force the O to run a play again it OTAs because they did not get it right..

PM is probably the smartest guy on the field if not the stadium when it comes to Offense..


If you really think PM is not smart then you have been asleep since he got here.. He does not care who the QB's were before him nor how or if the routes were run correctly.. He simply will not tolerate someone not running the routes he needs them to he will look at other targets first..

You misinterpreted what I was saying. I meant if PM just shuts out DT due to mistakes made in camp or preseason or early in the regular season because he is learning new aspects if the game than it is a stupid move on PM part as he isn't using a potentially potent weapon. I am not saying PM is stupid, just he would look dumb overlooking a weapon like DT because of route running mistakes for basically a guy who has a rookies grasp on that part of the game

lonestar
07-01-2012, 02:49 PM
Indi also never had the drop before you catch guy like DT either.

Sorry I'm not sure what you are trying to say.. maybe " drop before you caught it guy like DT either"

Could you clarify that please..

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
07-01-2012, 03:09 PM
he says it right there, i have to run the whole route tree now. meaning there are routes he was asked to run, but it wasn't the entire route tree. if Peyton really overlooks the guy because he is learning things he never had to because of mediocre play from the QBs he played with, than he isn't as bright as we are thinking.

Peyton Manning isn't over looking anybody. Manning is looking at everybody to do what they need to win. But like good team mates they are doing everything they need to do to let Manning do what he does.

Bacchus
07-01-2012, 03:26 PM
Sorry I'm not sure what you are trying to say.. maybe " drop before you caught it guy like DT either"

Could you clarify that please..

It was sai dthat Indi never had the guy that could run after the catch like DT. I said they also never had the guy that would drop it before the catch kind of guy either. You know drops a lot of balls like DT. Just a little play on word that was confising I guess.

WolfpackGuy
07-01-2012, 05:15 PM
Marvin Harrison, Wayne, Stokley.. come to mind without even looking at the old rosters and then of course #44 who killed us all the time..

I'm aware of the beatings Manning laid on the Broncos by exploiting whatever mismatch he chose. And there were a lot to pick from in Colts-Broncos games over the years...

Sure, Manning could lay in a perfectly placed ball to a guy streaking down the field, although none of those guys were really tackle breakers/great open field runners once they got the ball in their hands. I recall a lot of chucking and ducking, but maybe that's just what the Colts possession passing game required. I don't recall someone catching a short pass and outrunning an entire defense...

Thomas has a long ways to go, but you have to be looking forward to what Manning can do with someone with his physical talents.

lonestar
07-01-2012, 05:29 PM
It was sai dthat Indi never had the guy that could run after the catch like DT. I said they also never had the guy that would drop it before the catch kind of guy either. You know drops a lot of balls like DT. Just a little play on word that was confising I guess.

Ok that was what I thought..

But I beg to differ Marvin Harrsion most likely would be better than DT ever will.. Stokley well that was his stock in trade catch the short one and run like hell..

not sure of their YAC's but sure seemed to getting yards after every catch and the there was Wayne IIRC Reggie but could be wrong..

PM did not throw many long passes (really Deep) most of his stuff was under 30..

At least that is what I recall from the games I saw him play..

I know in that AFCDG before our beat down by PIT he got loads of YAC from them and same goes for Clark..

errand
07-01-2012, 05:35 PM
Indi also never had the drop before you catch guy like DT either.

Well, I'm sure that'll change now that his QB can throw an accurate spiral....

errand
07-01-2012, 05:42 PM
Everyone is so intent on blaming the QB's the past couple of years they can't see the forest for the trees..

The QB's had nothing to do with him not knowing the route tree nor running crisp routes..

He has been preparing for the NFL since HS.. Some seven PLUS years he has had to learn it and practice it.. Whether someone could throw to it or not.. Or whether his coaches insisted on it or not..

Not knowing how to run all the routes precisely probably cost him several million dollars as he may have been drafted much earlier in the draft..

But then we will never know..

From what I have read, GT ran a rudimentary passing attack.....and since alot of high schools do too, and given the fact that we also did the one season he was relatively healthy..... I'm gonna give the kid the benefit of the doubt that he'll improve.

lonestar
07-01-2012, 08:41 PM
From what I have read, GT ran a rudimentary passing attack.....and since alot of high schools do too, and given the fact that we also did the one season he was relatively healthy..... I'm gonna give the kid the benefit of the doubt that he'll improve.

oh he will improve or he will never see the ball and someone else will be on the field.. MAnning is said to ba anal about perfection and flat will not throw to him unless he is the last person left standing..

As for not learning the route tree your excuse is lame..

If he knew he wanted to play in the NFL, he had to know or have a coach at some time in his career tell him he would have to be stellar at it.
That being big would not keep him in the Not For Long league..

Having at least two years now to learn it and now come out and say well now I have to know it, is not smart..

Now lets see who winds up playing this year..

 

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
07-01-2012, 11:22 PM
oh he will improve or he will never see the ball and someone else will be on the field.. MAnning is said to ba anal about perfection and flat will not throw to him unless he is the last person left standing..

As for not learning the route tree your excuse is lame..
If he knew he wanted to play in the NFL, he had to know or have a coach at some time in his career tell him he would have to be stellar at it.
That being big would not keep him in the Not For Long league..

Having at least two years now to learn it and now come out and say well now I have to know it, is not smart..

Now lets see who winds up playing this year..

 
DT was hurt both off-seasons. But Tebow can't learn a 3-5 step drop back.

lonestar
07-01-2012, 11:57 PM
DT was hurt both off-seasons. But Tebow can't learn a 3-5 step drop back.

Gee sounds like your making excuses..

During his Rehab time I'm sure he could have learned the playbook as well as the route tree..

At no time did I say he had to run it, but knowing it is a HUGE step to being able to do it..

Plus he had many years prior to learn it..

I'm sure he did not wake up draft day and think "Hey I'll try to play in the NFL"..

As for Tebow was not aware he got traded back to the Broncos. Did I miss the press announcement?

His abilities are not relevant to this conversation..

Place the blame where it should be on DT no one told him he did not have to learn how to run routes.. At least at the pro level..

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
07-02-2012, 12:07 AM
Gee sounds like your making excuses..

During his Rehab time I'm sure he could have learned the playbook as well as the route tree..

At no time did I say he had to run it, but knowing it is a HUGE step to being able to do it..

Plus he had many years prior to learn it..

I'm sure he did not wake up draft day and think "Hey I'll try to play in the NFL"..

As for Tebow was not aware he got traded back to the Broncos. Did I miss the press announcement?

His abilities are not relevant to this conversation..

Place the blame where it should be on DT no one told him he did not have to learn how to run routes.. At least at the pro level..

Running the route and learning the playbook are 2 differnet things. He never said that he didn't learn the playbook. What he said was never had to run the entire route tree. And why would run the entire eoute tree when at the time your only going to throw the ball 8 times.

lonestar
07-02-2012, 12:23 AM
Running the route and learning the playbook are 2 differnet things. He never said that he didn't learn the playbook. What he said was never had to run the entire route tree. And why would run the entire eoute tree when at the time your only going to throw the ball 8 times.

First of all I just threw in the playbook because some Nimrod would bring that up as an excuse also.. and frankly we do not know that he does know it do we?

once again you're not answering the question.. your deflecting..

 Because it is his job..

 let me do this slowly.


A. part of his job description is to know the playbook.

B. knowing the playbook, means he has to know the route tree..

It does not matter who is throwing him the ball it matter that he knows the playbook and can execute it.

What might have happened had Tebow went down with an injury and a real QB would have been brought in to play?

his inability to run the route tree may have cost us games, for that matter maybe it did, we will never know..

Now we have a real QB (Manning) and he is fessing up he NOW has to know his job..

Just how long would you have a job if you did not know the rules and regs for your job and say hey I'll only learn that part of my job I want to..

and I'm guess you are not making a few million a year are you?

Would you be blaming your secretary for not getting the report done on time?


BTW he caught 54 passes over that past two years.. yet only started in 7 games..

BroncoMan4ever
07-02-2012, 11:52 AM
oh he will improve or he will never see the ball and someone else will be on the field.. MAnning is said to ba anal about perfection and flat will not throw to him unless he is the last person left standing..

As for not learning the route tree your excuse is lame..

If he knew he wanted to play in the NFL, he had to know or have a coach at some time in his career tell him he would have to be stellar at it.
That being big would not keep him in the Not For Long league..

Having at least two years now to learn it and now come out and say well now I have to know it, is not smart..

Now lets see who winds up playing this year..

 

give me a break on that crap. every year WRs and QBs drafted out of basic high school offenses who have played that style of offense since high school come into the NFL and have to learn a pro style offense. it is why for the months leading up to the draft you hear a lot of talk about guys coming out who played in a pro style offense and how they have an advantage over other player who may be more talented.

yes it is in their best interest to know a pro style offense before getting to the NFL, but with the way just about all of college football has their offensive schemes set up, there is no way to do that. and not all players are capable of hiring a guru to teach them these things. they have to learn as rookies.

and therein lies the issue with DT. he has been injured when he should have been learning to run the route tree. and when he got on the field last year we had a FB playing QB and the offense was about blocking in the running game. also, he has never said he doesn't know the route tree, just that he needs to learn to do it. he knows all possible routes, he's just never run them and PRACTICE is where you get used to running those routes. if he's been injured, he can't practice. for example; i know exactly what an out route is, but i haven't practiced it, so if the opportunity came up, i'm not going to jump off the couch and execute that play perfectly

BTW, it took Calvin Johnson about 3 years to become really good at running routes, so give DT a break.

BroncoMan4ever
07-02-2012, 12:01 PM
First of all I just threw in the playbook because some Nimrod would bring that up as an excuse also.. and frankly we do not know that he does know it do we?

once again you're not answering the question.. your deflecting..

 Because it is his job..

 let me do this slowly.


A. part of his job description is to know the playbook.

B. knowing the playbook, means he has to know the route tree..

It does not matter who is throwing him the ball it matter that he knows the playbook and can execute it.

What might have happened had Tebow went down with an injury and a real QB would have been brought in to play?

his inability to run the route tree may have cost us games, for that matter maybe it did, we will never know..

Now we have a real QB (Manning) and he is fessing up he NOW has to know his job..

Just how long would you have a job if you did not know the rules and regs for your job and say hey I'll only learn that part of my job I want to..

and I'm guess you are not making a few million a year are you?

Would you be blaming your secretary for not getting the report done on time?


BTW he caught 54 passes over that past two years.. yet only started in 7 games..

the QB he was playing with did have a big affect on how his playbook was used. remember, that playbook was gutted and revamped with Tebow under center, and became basically a college offense, which he has run all through college. he knew the routes he had to run in that offense. the year prior he was injured and you learn all the nuances of your job while doing it. if you can't get onto the field, you can't do your job and you can't learn everything about it.

also, coaches tailor their playbooks to what their players can do. meaning it is likely several routes were removed from the playbook because Orton or Tebow couldn't make the throws. so for all we know, DT knew the routes he had available to him. he now has a QB who can make every throw, so instead of learning only parts of an offense, he is learning everything.

Jay3
07-02-2012, 12:57 PM
the QB he was playing with did have a big affect on how his playbook was used. remember, that playbook was gutted and revamped with Tebow under center, and became basically a college offense, which he has run all through college.

It wasn't. That was overblown. They kept the same offense, and added on a few plays (which they ran a lot). McCoy was always very insistent with reporters that they still maintained their base offense.

You can't do much of an install midseason. Two short practices in pads between each game.

The route tree was there in McD's offense. DT should have known it, and run it right. That's part of the problem with a bunch of noobs in there (at QB, receiver, and pass protection). The odds of somebody screwing up on a given play are high, and nobody can develop good habits without consistency.

Tebow needed to work on throwing with anticipation and pulling the trigger quickly. But that's even harder to do with receivers running soft routes or drifting. Doesn't mean it was the receivers fault all the time or even most of the time. But it is important to help him get a rhythm to always stick the route.

Which goes back to the senselessness of dumping Brandon Lloyd, just because he wanted to. In hindsight, we now know this team was a playoff run, and dumped its best most polished route runner.

ncjmirabile
07-02-2012, 02:11 PM
It wasn't. That was overblown. They kept the same offense, and added on a few plays (which they ran a lot). McCoy was always very insistent with reporters that they still maintained their base offense.

You can't do much of an install midseason. Two short practices in pads between each game.



Truthfully can anyone really say what offense they ran last year. From Fox to the media to former player analysts, the opinion on it really is muddled.

It also seems to me that when you add a series of plays from a different scheme to what you already have you become more of a hybrid offense than anything else.

lonestar
07-07-2012, 02:01 AM
give me a break on that crap. every year WRs and QBs drafted out of basic high school offenses who have played that style of offense since high school come into the NFL and have to learn a pro style offense. it is why for the months leading up to the draft you hear a lot of talk about guys coming out who played in a pro style offense and how they have an advantage over other player who may be more talented.

yes it is in their best interest to know a pro style offense before getting to the NFL, but with the way just about all of college football has their offensive schemes set up, there is no way to do that. and not all players are capable of hiring a guru to teach them these things. they have to learn as rookies.

and therein lies the issue with DT. he has been injured when he should have been learning to run the route tree. and when he got on the field last year we had a FB playing QB and the offense was about blocking in the running game. also, he has never said he doesn't know the route tree, just that he needs to learn to do it. he knows all possible routes, he's just never run them and PRACTICE is where you get used to running those routes. if he's been injured, he can't practice. for example; i know exactly what an out route is, but i haven't practiced it, so if the opportunity came up, i'm not going to jump off the couch and execute that play perfectly

BTW, it took Calvin Johnson about 3 years to become really good at running routes, so give DT a break.
Sounds like excuses for your man crush.

But whatever floats your boat. As for calvin he is good enough that he did not need it. Dt well not in the same league. In fact as some would say it is not good enough to hold his jock.

Face it DT just did not think he would have to or he would have found a way. He has had going on three years of being a pro where ther are coaches at his disposal. He blew them off.

lonestar
07-07-2012, 02:06 AM
the QB he was playing with did have a big affect on how his playbook was used. remember, that playbook was gutted and revamped with Tebow under center, and became basically a college offense, which he has run all through college. he knew the routes he had to run in that offense. the year prior he was injured and you learn all the nuances of your job while doing it. if you can't get onto the field, you can't do your job and you can't learn everything about it.

also, coaches tailor their playbooks to what their players can do. meaning it is likely several routes were removed from the playbook because Orton or Tebow couldn't make the throws. so for all we know, DT knew the routes he had available to him. he now has a QB who can make every throw, so instead of learning only parts of an offense, he is learning everything.

Excuses excuses.

This guy your cousin or something?

It is his job. Has been since grade school.
Contrary to your opine. They run the route tree in all phases of football not just in DEN.

Perhaps they have a different terminology but the route tree is fundamental .

lonestar
07-07-2012, 02:14 AM
It wasn't. That was overblown. They kept the same offense, and added on a few plays (which they ran a lot). McCoy was always very insistent with reporters that they still maintained their base offense.

You can't do much of an install midseason. Two short practices in pads between each game.

The route tree was there in McD's offense. DT should have known it, and run it right. That's part of the problem with a bunch of noobs in there (at QB, receiver, and pass protection). The odds of somebody screwing up on a given play are high, and nobody can develop good habits without consistency.

Tebow needed to work on throwing with anticipation and pulling the trigger quickly. But that's even harder to do with receivers running soft routes or drifting. Doesn't mean it was the receivers fault all the time or even most of the time. But it is important to help him get a rhythm to always stick the route.

Which goes back to the senselessness of dumping Brandon Lloyd, just because he wanted to. In hindsight, we now know this team was a playoff run, and dumped its best most polished route runner.


Good post route trees are in every offense that passes the ball. It does not mater if they run once a game or every play. If your not doing your job as a wr at least acting like it could be a pass means your doing a disservice to your team.
If your not running routes that are called that means the players assigned to guard them can slough off and only play the run.

Why everyone wants to excuse his failure and blame someone else is beyeond mme.

CEH
07-07-2012, 07:56 AM
It wasn't. That was overblown. They kept the same offense, and added on a few plays (which they ran a lot). McCoy was always very insistent with reporters that they still maintained their base offense.

You can't do much of an install midseason. Two short practices in pads between each game.

The route tree was there in McD's offense. DT should have known it, and run it right. That's part of the problem with a bunch of noobs in there (at QB, receiver, and pass protection). The odds of somebody screwing up on a given play are high, and nobody can develop good habits without consistency.

Tebow needed to work on throwing with anticipation and pulling the trigger quickly. But that's even harder to do with receivers running soft routes or drifting. Doesn't mean it was the receivers fault all the time or even most of the time. But it is important to help him get a rhythm to always stick the route.

Which goes back to the senselessness of dumping Brandon Lloyd, just because he wanted to. In hindsight, we now know this team was a playoff run, and dumped its best most polished route runner.

You contradict yourself in this post. This is the NFL. In one sentence you want to team to pander to Tebow and his mechanics and learn to throw the ball with accuracy/anticipation in practice on Weds-Fri when they are trying to install and run a game plan for Sunday yet in the next sentence you say nobody can develop good habits without consistency.



Tebow was very inconsisent with his passes during practice. You can't learn on the job during the NFL season. If you are trying to convince me Tebow is zipping passes in practice to the right spot and on time keep typing cause it's not reality as to why Denver went to a form of the Florida offense mid season


The NFL has spoken. Tebow to the Jets for a 4th round pick to play punt protector

Wonder why Tebow needs to learn Jujitzu to play QB in the NFL.

As far as Lloyd d he's been with 6 teams in 8+ year and at the time of the trade Denver was not in the playoff hunt and they were not going to resign BLloyd

Maybe at some point the player is responible for 6 teams in 8 years and we need to stop blaming the man for keeping him down

Denver was 1-4 at the time of the trade. If you think they knew they were on a playoff run then this is all I need to know about you knowledge of football

Jay3
07-07-2012, 08:03 AM
You contradict yourself in this post. This is the NFL. In one sentence you want to team to pander to Tebow and his mechanics and learn to throw the ball with accuracy/anticipation in practice on Weds-Fri when they are trying to install and run a game plan for Sunday yet in the next sentence you say nobody can develop good habits without consistency.

When I said "Tebow needed to work on throwing with anticipation and pulling the trigger quickly" I meant Tebow need to improve, develop, get better at that. You read into some sort of "unmet need" where the team screwed him. You strain so hard to look for it, you find what you are looking for.

The point was that receivers like DT running very precise routes is just as important for a quarterback like Tebow (who need to grow into being more precise), and DT's wording that makes it seem like it's "now" important is unwise.

We can't just answer every issue with "Tebow sucks so bad that life is pointless." Whether we're evaluating receivers, McCoy, the O line, or anything else, all the moving parts must be precise and good at their jobs.

CEH
07-07-2012, 08:24 AM
When I said "Tebow needed to work on throwing with anticipation and pulling the trigger quickly" I meant Tebow need to improve, develop, get better at that. You read into some sort of "unmet need" where the team screwed him. You strain so hard to look for it, you find what you are looking for.

The point was that receivers like DT running very precise routes is just as important for a quarterback like Tebow (who need to grow into being more precise), and DT's wording that makes it seem like it's "now" important is unwise.

We can't just answer every issue with "Tebow sucks so bad that life is pointless." Whether we're evaluating receivers, McCoy, the O line, or anything else, all the moving parts must be precise and good at their jobs.

Point is the QB drives the tempo of practice plain and simple.

Who cares what DT says. We know he was not a fan of Tebow's.

I sat there an watched the routes being run by the WRs in all Tebow home games. You can't see that on TV. Tebow has the sideline and deep throws. That was the route tree for the Tebow offense.

barryr
07-07-2012, 09:01 AM
We know if Thomas does not know the plays and doesn't always run the correct routes, the first one in his face will be PM. And he'll be standing on the sidelines for someone who does know the plays, so Thomas has no excuses. Plus, dropping balls will not be tolerated by PM either. If Thomas wants to be a big time player, he better come prepared to play like one.

ward63
07-07-2012, 09:05 AM
I like Thomas and I'm still hoping he proves to be the best WR from his class, but I strongly believe that Decker is going to be Peyton's #1 guy. Does anybody else agree with me?

Jay3
07-07-2012, 09:53 AM
Point is the QB drives the tempo of practice plain and simple.

I see. Tebow's fault.

Who cares what DT says. We know he was not a fan of Tebow's.

First, I think the thread is about what DT says. But I don't agree he was not a fan of Tebow's. I think he's a bad interviewer and we'll see him continue to step on his crank throughout his career.

If everyone is all sunshine and roses this year (Super Bowl contender) then it won't be so bad. But if there are some slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, I think we'll see some more rocky road with DT.

I sat there an watched the routes being run by the WRs in all Tebow home games. You can't see that on TV. Tebow has the sideline and deep throws. That was the route tree for the Tebow offense.

I agree the other routes were Tebow's weakness, but (1) the routes were still there, I know because I saw with my own eyes Tebow fail to pull the trigger; and (2) it's still important to run every route in the tree with precision and separation. Moreso for a noob quarterback, not less so.

Jay3
07-07-2012, 09:54 AM
I think DT could have summed up what he was thinking by just saying "Manning yells at me more about routes." That's what was really on his mind, but he tried to work it into some thought about it "now" being important.

errand
07-07-2012, 11:56 AM
I think DT could have summed up what he was thinking by just saying "Manning yells at me more about routes." That's what was really on his mind, but he tried to work it into some thought about it "now" being important.

You're probably right....

Manning will hold his team mates accountable.....but I also believe an open man is still an open man..even if his route running isn't perfect.

baja
07-07-2012, 12:01 PM
You're probably right....

Manning will hold his team mates accountable.....but I also believe an open man is still an open man..even if his route running isn't perfect.

I think it is more about timing patterns.

BroncoMan4ever
07-07-2012, 01:25 PM
I like Thomas and I'm still hoping he proves to be the best WR from his class, but I strongly believe that Decker is going to be Peyton's #1 guy. Does anybody else agree with me?

I say Decker gets most looks and catches, but DT will have bigger plays.

ozomulsion
07-07-2012, 01:28 PM
First of all he did not meet them at the bar they new these girls for awhile. They gave them date raped drug (allegedly) and took them to Cox's apartment. DT admits to fingering the girl while she was passed out. He also admits to moving her to the bed so Cox could rape her while she slept. I do not know how you can say he is a "Way" better human being than Marshall. As of right now I'd say they are neck and neck.

Why did you make something like that up, and then word it like that. YOU are one of the big reasons this board will never be what it once was. Then trash like you came along. Thank goodness for the ignore feature

Agamemnon
07-07-2012, 01:44 PM
The other thing people forget is what a true "install" for a play is. To "install" a play, such that it can be included in the game plan, it has to be run by the QB, to mastery.

Tebow never had an "install" with the vast majority of the plays in the playbook. He got an estimated 5% of reps his first year, with many of those expended on a "Tebow play." When he was allowed to start as a rookie, you can just look -- that was a very limited number of pass plays even available to run. And that's not Tebow's fault, and it's not because he was a remedial case -- first year, very few reps, very little of the playbook actually available.

Then came the lockout. No OTA. No install in the offseason.

Then the lockout was lifted. Orton getting the number 1 reps, Quinn getting good sized share of the remaining reps. Complete playbook not installed with Tebow.

He gets thrown in after 5 games, and with 2 days a week practice, still not time to do midseason install of all the pass plays in the regular offense. And they used a lot of what reps they had to install plays taking advantage of Tebow's strengths (and hopefully hiding his weaknesses).

So this comment by DT (other than being kind of dumbly phrased) is also a wake up call for how little of the passing playbook actually ever got deployed with Tebow here.

But yes, I agree with DT -- he does need to "run routes more." His routes were not crisp last year, he drifted, and there wasn't enough of a reliable break to anticipate and throw it early. It fed right into Tebow's weakness (which was uncertainty and pulling the trigger). And it's not going to be acceptable to Peyton.

I think Decker is probably better on crisp routes, but worse on separation.

If Decker was better at running routes he'd be better at separation. Good route running leads to separation. Presently I have very little faith in the route running or hands of our two top receivers, but maybe playing with a future HoF rather than another young, fundamentally unsound player like themselves will really help them. You've got to hope so.