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Cito Pelon
06-23-2012, 09:38 PM
From DPO, by Jeff Legwold:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20909653/10-things-that-will-make-broncos-successful-2012

On paper, Harry Potter has plenty of tricks to win the day. On paper, things often add up nicely 1-2-3.

And on paper, the Broncos closed out their offseason program last week, feeling better about how they will enter the 2012 season than how they exited the one in 2011.

"That's always the thing," said cornerback Champ Bailey. "On paper, we're better. We have more potential to be one of those teams. But we don't play on paper. The Giants were like 7-7 last season, then put it together to win it all.

"It's OK to feel good, to have big plans. But we have to play, we have to do all of the things that are necessary to be one of those teams playing at the end."



Read more: 10 things that will make the Broncos successful in 2012 - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20909653/10-things-that-will-make-broncos-successful-2012#ixzz1yg5fD7lW
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse "


Pretty good article.

Kaylore
06-23-2012, 09:53 PM
Thankfully, no one has been stupid enough to call this team "Dream Team" or any other such moniker.

Agamemnon
06-23-2012, 09:55 PM
"With Miller and Elvis Dumervil in the formation, there are plenty of NFL personnel people who believe the Broncos' are best suited to play a 3-4 look on defense."

I lol'ed. Who would be our NT again?

baja
06-23-2012, 10:11 PM
11. Stay healthy

Cito Pelon
06-23-2012, 10:26 PM
It was a good article. I'm thinking this way:

1. Manning. He sure does look thin and fragile, but he appears to have his arm strength back.

2. OL. I have my fingers crossed the OL will be adequate to protect Manning. Hopefully he won't have to go fetal because of inside pressure.

3. McGahee. Well, that's hard to predict. Slow, hard-running RB's get nicked up quite a bit. But they have some young guys that hopefully can carry the load.

4. Finishing strongly. A younger roster with more depth might help. And hopefully it's a more talented roster, that's always a big deal, duh.

5. Coaching. Maybe one of the best overall coaching staffs the Broncos have had in a long time.

6. Von Miller and various D formations. Hopefully Miller makes more of an impact other than just pass-rushing. PD's, INT's, better recognition of run plays.

7. Secondary. Yeah, they recognized the secondary needed some help and tried to take care of it.

8. WR's. They're counting on DT and Decker to be the primaries (with Peyton's ok presumably). But tried to add a few guys they think will help. And of course Tamme and Dreesen, again presumably with Peyton's input.

9. LB. DJ is adequate, but I think he'll be suspended. So one of the younger guys will have to step up. Mays? I dunno, but the staff likes him.

10. Home record. Duh.

ST's will also have to be a key component, as always. Sign Prater, of course. And hopefully they found some good kick and punt returners. Otherwise their best are Decker and Willis.

Vegas_Bronco
06-23-2012, 10:49 PM
I dont think champ lets him self get to hopeful...itz just his nature...but having a healthy dual attack offense is going to make this team great...cant wait to see it.

lonestar
06-23-2012, 11:09 PM
Actually not a bad piece, Legwold is one of the best on a very talent challenged paper..

Not sure what he is thinking about us being a 3-4 team..been there done that and it was not pretty..

JDR has never coached it nor has Fox.. Always thought you worked to your strengths not against it..

lots of pieces have to fall just right to get to the playoffs this year and frankly with the schedule we have and improvement from the 3 AFCW teams, not sure how that is going to happen.. it is not like be beat up on them consistently last year..

Lets hope that JDR figures out he is a DC and not a HC and decides that DEN is a great place to coach and live..

Cito Pelon
06-24-2012, 10:06 AM
Actually not a bad piece, Legwold is one of the best on a very talent challenged paper..

Not sure what he is thinking about us being a 3-4 team..been there done that and it was not pretty..

JDR has never coached it nor has Fox.. Always thought you worked to your strengths not against it..

lots of pieces have to fall just right to get to the playoffs this year and frankly with the schedule we have and improvement from the 3 AFCW teams, not sure how that is going to happen.. it is not like be beat up on them consistently last year..

Lets hope that JDR figures out he is a DC and not a HC and decides that DEN is a great place to coach and live..

No kidding. This constant parade of new DC's year after year is tiresome.

ward63
06-24-2012, 01:33 PM
Here's the bonus one...

Getting hot at the end of season and into the playoffs.

CEH
06-24-2012, 01:55 PM
Here's the bonus one...

Getting hot at the end of season and into the playoffs.

Manning skipped the entire 2008 preseason . Didn't take one snap or practiced too much due to injury and the Colts started 3-4 then the Colts reeled off 9 straight

First 7 games 10 TDs 9 INT
Last 9 games 17 TD 3 INT

After a year off and a tough starting half If the Broncos can be carried by the Defense and come out of the first half 4-4 or 5-3 they should be in great shape for a 2nd half streak .

lonestar
06-24-2012, 01:56 PM
Here's the bonus one...

Getting hot at the end of season and into the playoffs.

This is something that all the Tanahan fans missed year after year..

all they could do was rave about how great his offenses were and never listening to his own words "we have to get better in the Red Zone".

If you go back and look at all of those games late in the year a few things stick out..

when we needed to get a few yards to maintain a drive, we were not big enough to make it happen..

we started each season lean and mean and by the time the long grind of the season hit them we were worn out and even lighter in the ass at the end of the season.

hard to win games in the foul weather playing finesse games..

Most of this IMO boiled down to one thing smaller players on the LOS it all works fine early in the year when opposing teams have to hesitate while the ball is snapped.. But late in the year the film has been studied they know our tendencies and are still bigger and badder than our OL was..

And remarkably they figured out that if you stay at home and protect YOUR GAP the broncos were not going to run on you..

But all of the Tanahan lovers were content to brag about his winning % and great starts..

I'll bet 95% of our fans that KNEW that our D stunk each year, and most of those folks were willing to give Tanahan a pass because we scored so much..

A big imporvement starting with Josh of rebuilding a 1990 size OL into an OL that has some beef.. Maybe not enough to be elite but much improved over the 285 pound interior guys we have under Tanahan..

Hopefully now we have a D or is it MUCH improved under Fox and JDR and in its self will help the team to win more close games..

the ones we were losing year after year..

lonestar
06-24-2012, 02:01 PM
Manning skipped the entire 2008 preseason . Didn't take one snap or practiced too much due to injury and the Colts started 3-4 then the Colts reeled off 9 straight

First 7 games 10 TDs 9 INT
Last 9 games 17 TD 3 INT

After a year off and a tough starting half If the Broncos can be carried by the Defense and come out of the first half 4-4 or 5-3 they should be in great shape for a 2nd half streak .

well the first half of the season is brutal.. if they are better than 1-5 at the break I'll be happy..

Shananahan
06-24-2012, 02:23 PM
You're an idiot, lonestar.

lonestar
06-24-2012, 04:05 PM
You're an idiot, lonestar.

WHY do you say that?..


Because I do not think Manning will have his act together (meaning the entire offense being in sync)

playing PIT, @ ATL, HOU, OAK (w note it is a little w), @NE, @SAN..

do you really think our new DC with lots of new toys, can help beat those teams?

they are ALL experienced and Excepting SAN and OAK playoff teams last year, most with all players and coaches coming back.. IMO they will all be ready to play day one and we will be very inconsistent..

I stopped drinking the Orange Koolade in the Tanahan years.. Once I figured him out as a fraud..

Requiem
06-24-2012, 04:18 PM
Because you are a 50-some year old man coming up with childish monikers for Mike Shanahan. Shut up already.

peacepipe
06-24-2012, 04:22 PM
"With Miller and Elvis Dumervil in the formation, there are plenty of NFL personnel people who believe the Broncos' are best suited to play a 3-4 look on defense."

I lol'ed. Who would be our NT again?

LOL I'm sorry,can you only run a 3-4 if you have a superstar NT?

Smilin Assassin
06-24-2012, 04:30 PM
Because you are a 50-some year old man coming up with childish monikers for Mike Shanahan. Shut up already.

lol

This

Cito Pelon
06-24-2012, 04:30 PM
Because you are a 50-some year old man coming up with childish monikers for Mike Shanahan. Shut up already.

Look who's calling who.

peacepipe
06-24-2012, 04:35 PM
With Miller and Elvis Dumervil in the formation, there are plenty of NFL personnel people who believe the Broncos' are best suited to play a 3-4 look on defense. John Fox, a 4-3 practitioner overall, has sprinkled in 3-4 fronts at times, but no matter how the Broncos line up, they have to get enough push in the middle to get Miller and Dumervil free.

Read more: 10 things that will make the Broncos successful in 2012 - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20909653/10-things-that-will-make-broncos-successful-2012#ixzz1ykjXAfgy) http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20909653/10-things-that-will-make-broncos-successful-2012#ixzz1ykjXAfgy
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

also the last time our defense ranked top 10 was when we ran the 3-4 under nolan.

Bacchus
06-24-2012, 04:36 PM
Because you are a 50-some year old man coming up with childish monikers for Mike Shanahan. Shut up already.

repped for truth

Jetmeck
06-24-2012, 04:48 PM
Shanny had his flaws but bagging on prob best coach in Denver history will getcha slapped down quick.................

lonestar
06-24-2012, 04:49 PM
LOL I'm sorry,can you only run a 3-4 if you have a superstar NT?

Sure helps.. Those with the best 3-4 teams pretty much have superstars there..

As it stands right now we really do not have a bon-a-fide NT let alone two for rotational purposes..

lonestar
06-24-2012, 04:57 PM
Shanny had his flaws but bagging on prob best coach in Denver history will getcha slapped down quick.................

Best coach, hell I'd put Dan Reeves above him as far as HC is concerned and I did not think much of him..

Tanahan had a great run while his HOF players were here after that ..

Well he won loads of games isn't that special.. but he managed to get our asses kicked by many piss poor teams in trap games.. and then in the play offs well could only manage one win..

"BEST COACHES" do not get consistently blown out of playoff games.

If you count winning percentage in the regular season only well then your correct.


Anyone wonder what he could have done had his EGO allowed himself to hire a real DC and GM to draft a balanced team?

Waiting for the slap down..

peacepipe
06-24-2012, 05:01 PM
Sure helps.. Those with the best 3-4 teams pretty much have superstars there..

As it stands right now we really do not have a bon-a-fide NT let alone two for rotational purposes..

you can make the switch without a bonifide NT, like I pointed out we had a top 10 defense under nolan running a 3-4 & we didn't have a superstar NT then either. silga has the size to play NT sufficent enough until we can draft one.

Jetmeck
06-24-2012, 05:02 PM
Best coach, hell I'd put Dan Reeves above him as far as HC is concerned and I did not think much of him..

Tanahan had a great run while his HOF players were here after that ..

Well he won loads of games isn't that special.. but he managed to get our asses kicked by many piss poor teams in trap games.. and then in the play offs well could only manage one win..

"BEST COACHES" do not get consistently blown out of playoff games.

If you count winning percentage in the regular season only well then your correct.


Anyone wonder what he could have done had his EGO allowed himself to hire a real DC and GM to draft a balanced team?

Waiting for the slap down..

What king of fool/tool has this much venom for the coach that got over the hump not once but twice ?

lonestar
06-24-2012, 05:06 PM
you can make the switch without a bonifide NT, like I pointed out we had a top 10 defense under nolan running a 3-4 & we didn't have a superstar NT then either. silga has the size to play NT sufficent enough until we can draft one.

Putting another unproven inexperienced kid into the most key position in the 3-4 and then hoping to draft one.. all the while none of our coaching or FO staff knows their collective asses about the 3-4..

Yep That is what I want to do.. Makes sense..

Now had we not moved back to the 4-3 last year while crap canning the players from it, I could almost agree with you..

lonestar
06-24-2012, 05:10 PM
What king of fool/tool has this much venom for the coach that got over the hump not once but twice ?

Get over your man love for the clown..

In actuality he probably should have been able to get four in a row,,

We got our asses kicked by a start-up expansion team that first year and if John would have stayed for 4 in a row it could have been a cake walk..

But once again his team was not prepared in that HOME playoff game..


Like I said love the guy from afar as he is now in WAS getting his ass kicked..

ahahahahahahahahaha

Jetmeck
06-24-2012, 05:20 PM
Get over your man love for the clown..

In actuality he probably should have been able to get four in a row,,

We got our asses kicked by a start-up expansion team that first year and if John would have stayed for 4 in a row it could have been a cake walk..

But once again his team was not prepared in that HOME playoff game..


Like I said love the guy from afar as he is now in WAS getting his ass kicked..

ahahahahahahahahaha


wow is all I can say...............maybe you have rather had Marv Levy or whatever the Bills coach was and had that fiasco.

I am glad the pieces fell into place for us and we are not a classless, clueless organization like the Chiefs for example.

I am done with you sir....

Heyneck
06-24-2012, 05:30 PM
Get over your man love for the clown..

In actuality he probably should have been able to get four in a row,,

We got our asses kicked by a start-up expansion team that first year and if John would have stayed for 4 in a row it could have been a cake walk..

But once again his team was not prepared in that HOME playoff game..


Like I said love the guy from afar as he is now in WAS getting his ass kicked..

ahahahahahahahahaha

WTF are you talking about? You have gone full retard on us...

lonestar
06-24-2012, 05:33 PM
wow is all I can say...............maybe you have rather had Marv Levy or whatever the Bills coach was and had that fiasco.

I am glad the pieces fell into place for us and we are not a classless, clueless organization like the Chiefs for example.

I am done with you sir....

I would have rather had a real HC that was not a mini GM/DC wannabe..

Someone with and EGO that would have allowed him to hire someone to do that stuff instead of trying to be all of it..

As for Marv Levy in his prime one of the best.. Do you think had Tanahan been in BUF they would have went to four super bowls..

Without John Tanahan was average.. If not less than average..

Thought so..

Heyneck
06-24-2012, 05:52 PM
I would have rather had a real HC that was not a mini GM/DC wannabe..

Someone with and EGO that would have allowed him to hire someone to do that stuff instead of trying to be all of it..

As for Marv Levy in his prime one of the best.. Do you think had Tanahan been in BUF they would have went to four super bowls..

Without John Tanahan was average.. If not less than average..

Thought so..

Average HC don't make it to the AFC Championship with Jake Plummer....
One that also managed to have 3 different Pro Bowl QBs after Elway.

Requiem
06-24-2012, 05:58 PM
Look who's calling who.

Except my moniker is a joke and in jest, while the other isn't.

Whether it is "Mikey was DAFT with the draft", "Tanahan", etc. -- lonestar has made a habit out of pissing on Mike at every chance he can get, especially post McDaniels, because for the most part, his takes on anything related to football over the past ten years has been wrong.

You should have seen lonestar's comments on Dumervil the day he was drafted. Just LOL.

Cito Pelon
06-24-2012, 06:30 PM
Shanny had his flaws but bagging on prob best coach in Denver history will getcha slapped down quick.................

Best coach in Denver history? Shanny inherited four HOF'rs and got lucky for a few years, then was a dismal disappointment. Shanny has won one division title and one playoff game since 1998. Wow, what a stud. Going on 13 years now with one Div title and one playoff win.

DBroncos4life
06-24-2012, 06:38 PM
Best coach in Denver history? Shanny inherited four HOF'rs and got lucky for a few years, then was a dismal disappointment. Shanny has won one division title and one playoff game since 1998. Wow, what a stud. Going on 13 years now with one Div title and one playoff win.

I remember all those super bowl wins our prior coaches had with those same players.

chickennob2
06-24-2012, 06:52 PM
Best coach in Denver history? Shanny inherited four HOF'rs and got lucky for a few years, then was a dismal disappointment. Shanny has won one division title and one playoff game since 1998. Wow, what a stud. Going on 13 years now with one Div title and one playoff win.

Yeah, its amazing how bad you can make someone's resume look when you decide to ign ore their biggest acheivements. Did he inherit a good team? Yes. Was that team so talented that they would yhave won a title regardless of the head coach? No. Absolutely not. I mean, show me a superbowl winning team that wasn't talented? Mike took the pieces he was given, added some more (TD? Neil Smith?) talented guys, and won two championships.

Look, there are 32 teams in the nfl. 31 of them end every season disappointed. For two years in Mike's career, we weren't one of them. For two years in the history of the franchise, we were champions. Does Mike deserve all of the credit? No. Does he deserve credit? Absolutely. Was he a perfect coach? No. But he was damn good. And he had a whole lot of success here. More than any other coach in franchise history.

Cito Pelon
06-24-2012, 06:56 PM
Except my moniker is a joke and in jest, while the other isn't.

Whether it is "Mikey was DAFT with the draft", "Tanahan", etc. -- lonestar has made a habit out of pissing on Mike at every chance he can get, especially post McDaniels, because for the most part, his takes on anything related to football over the past ten years has been wrong.

You should have seen lonestar's comments on Dumervil the day he was drafted. Just LOL.

He's not all that daft when it comes to Shahanan. Come on man, one Div title and one playoff win in 13 years? 13 years? Jesus dude, 13 years with pretty much nothing . . . .

Cito Pelon
06-24-2012, 07:05 PM
Yeah, its amazing how bad you can make someone's resume look when you decide to ign ore their biggest acheivements. Did he inherit a good team? Yes. Was that team so talented that they would yhave won a title regardless of the head coach? No. Absolutely not. I mean, show me a superbowl winning team that wasn't talented? Mike took the pieces he was given, added some more (TD? Neil Smith?) talented guys, and won two championships.

Look, there are 32 teams in the nfl. 31 of them end every season disappointed. For two years in Mike's career, we weren't one of them. For two years in the history of the franchise, we were champions. Does Mike deserve all of the credit? No. Does he deserve credit? Absolutely. Was he a perfect coach? No. But he was damn good. And he had a whole lot of success here. More than any other coach in franchise history.

But he couldn't build his own team. He's won one Div title and won one playoff game with his own team that he built. In 13 years.

Requiem
06-24-2012, 07:23 PM
He's not all that daft when it comes to Shahanan. Come on man, one Div title and one playoff win in 13 years? 13 years? Jesus dude, 13 years with pretty much nothing . . . .

I believe Shanahan was with the Broncos for fourteen years. In that span, we won two Super Bowls, 3 Division Titles and took us to seven playoff appearances. He sported a 61% winning percentage and did a lot of good things for the team. I couldn't have been happier with having him as a coach for the Denver Broncos.

Shanny certainly deserves criticism in many respects, but to outright disrespect a guy who helped move this franchise forward in many was is pretty sad. Has Mike won a Lombardi after Elway retired? No, but Elway never earned a ring until Mike was his coach. They benefited from one another a great deal and 1996, 1997 and 1998 were special years to have witnessed.

Heyneck
06-24-2012, 08:09 PM
Shanny allowed Elway to be Elway!!! Dan Reeves... well we know how that went. It was awesome to watch a Shanny led offence! I have nothing but thanks for Shanny... did his tenure grow stale? For sure! But give credit where credit is do. There is a reason Shanny was able to attract the talent to the team. Had he been better on the GM part he would still be here.

Shananahan
06-24-2012, 08:19 PM
On Josh McDaniels:

I still believe he was better than Tanahan, he started the rebuild that this franchise needed..

Had he been given a REAL GM, I believe he still may be here with a winning record..

Better than the constant whine from Tanahan, being one or two player away from the playoffs.

Or getting our asses kicked in every playoff game since the DUKE retired.

errand
06-24-2012, 08:39 PM
Shanny had his flaws but bagging on prob best coach in Denver history will getcha slapped down quick.................

He was a very good coach...but so was Dan Reeves, and Red Miller...problem was they eventually became stale....and their teams mediocre.

errand
06-24-2012, 09:01 PM
What king of fool/tool has this much venom for the coach that got over the hump not once but twice ?

Mike is considered the best HC in Broncos history...winning two titles, and getting to another AFCCG does that to one's resume'.....but the bottom line is after Elway's retirement his team's were usually mediocre ones....he had one decent year with Griese and Frerotte, and three good years with Jake....his last 3 seasons saw us go 24-24...and he deserved to be canned. He hasn't done crap since

One can make the argument that Reeves was a better overall coach than Mike, while he didn't win a SB, he did get us to 4 AFCCG's winning 3 of them....and he also took every team he coached to the playoffs and won a playoff game with them too with QB's like Danny Kanell, Dave Brown and Chris Chandler....meaning he had some success without a HoF QB ...not to mention he helped lead another team to the SB.

Red Miller had the best debut as Broncos coach..and was fired despite going 12-2, 10-6, 10-6 and 8-8...with one AFC title and 2 division titles in his first 3 seasons.

I have the utmost respect for those three guys, and appreciate all they did for us...but they needed to be let go when they were let go....

lonestar
06-24-2012, 09:16 PM
Average HC don't make it to the AFC Championship with Jake Plummer....
One that also managed to have 3 different Pro Bowl QBs after Elway.

give me a break griese a pro bowler? IF he would have had a full season we all know that would not have happened.. the pro bowl voting was done about the time he flat lined..but good try.. and cutlet anyone that is not biased knows that Rivers would have won going away had the voting not been over when he got hot..

What happened to the pro bowler in the last few games he melted down especially in the last game against rivers..

I will use the age-old rap on Tanahan

how many playoff games did he win without John..

How many times did his teams get blown out of the water in playoff games.

Tanahan was NADA without John. Won lots of MEANINGLESS games.. His teams faded in the stretch, especially against good teams when they should be winning them if they were great teams.. Face it he was average without John..

Now I know that my POV is not popular but I figured him out long beofre the rest of of the NON man love Tanahan fans did..

But believe the myth all you want I know what I know..

errand
06-24-2012, 09:23 PM
Shanny allowed Elway to be Elway!!! Dan Reeves... well we know how that went. It was awesome to watch a Shanny led offence!.

You know it's just as ignorant to dismiss Dan's accomplishment's as it is to dismiss Mike's...

I find amazing that alot of Bronco fans will say Reeves rode Elway's coat tails but then have the nerve to say Mike didn't do the same....bottom line is that Dan without John went 10-6 with creaky old Craig Morton, narrowly missing playoffs on last week of '81 season...he also went to playoffs with guys like Kanell and Dave Brown as his starter, and went to SB with Chris Chandler...you don't win 201 games (including playoffs) without being a good coach.

lonestar
06-24-2012, 09:28 PM
Best coach in Denver history? Shanny inherited four HOF'rs and got lucky for a few years, then was a dismal disappointment. Shanny has won one division title and one playoff game since 1998. Wow, what a stud. Going on 13 years now with one Div title and one playoff win.
You hit it on the head..

lots of folks think that TD would have been HOF also, but was hurt early in his career and then there is Elam who hauled Tanahans ass out of the fire more times than anyone cares to think about.. Why because even with that prolific O Tanahans D was pure crap for most of his years here..

I will always give Tanahan his due about designing offenses, but IMO he was a great OC that hit the roof of the peter principle..

But as the Head Cheese his decision-making on DAFT day were for the most part just that..

6 out of 41 round 1-3 players that he drafted resigned with DEN during their rookie contracts expired.. and the list of UFA he brought to town after the super bowl years was long and very undistinguished..


The hundreds of millions he blew on DAFT choices and UFA is almost criminal..

Like Josh had they had a REAL GM guiding the ship, God only knows how many Rings Tanahan may have earned in DEN..

lonestar
06-24-2012, 09:33 PM
Mike is considered the best HC in Broncos history...winning two titles, and getting to another AFCCG does that to one's resume'.....but the bottom line is after Elway's retirement his team's were usually mediocre ones....he had one decent year with Griese and Frerotte, and three good years with Jake....his last 3 seasons saw us go 24-24...and he deserved to be canned. He hasn't done crap since

One can make the argument that Reeves was a better overall coach than Mike, while he didn't win a SB, he did get us to 4 AFCCG's winning 3 of them....and he also took every team he coached to the playoffs and won a playoff game with them too with QB's like Danny Kanell, Dave Brown and Chris Chandler....meaning he had some success without a HoF QB ...not to mention he helped lead another team to the SB.

Red Miller had the best debut as Broncos coach..and was fired despite going 12-2, 10-6, 10-6 and 8-8...with one AFC title and 2 division titles in his first 3 seasons.

I have the utmost respect for those three guys, and appreciate all they did for us...but they needed to be let go when they were let go....

I had forgotten all of Danos title games was a time I was in LA so got few of the Bronco games at that time..

But I have to bag on him a bit, had his stoogy O opened up a bit it most likely would have been Johns records that Farve broke instead of Marinos..

Thanks for reminding us of the other great DEN coaches..

baja
06-24-2012, 09:40 PM
I never cared for Reeves.

Heyneck
06-24-2012, 10:52 PM
You know it's just as ignorant to dismiss Dan's accomplishment's as it is to dismiss Mike's...

I find amazing that alot of Bronco fans will say Reeves rode Elway's coat tails but then have the nerve to say Mike didn't do the same....bottom line is that Dan without John went 10-6 with creaky old Craig Morton, narrowly missing playoffs on last week of '81 season...he also went to playoffs with guys like Kanell and Dave Brown as his starter, and went to SB with Chris Chandler...you don't win 201 games (including playoffs) without being a good coach.

I am not dissing on Reeves talents as an overall coach! I was just saying that Reeves didn't use Elway the way his amazing talent allowed him to play. Reeves wanted a game manager. Elway is and forever will be the prototype QB for a Shanny offense. Reeves was and probably is still a very good coach... but give credit where credit is do. Yes... Shanny rode a HoF back.. and the some... but so did Reeves. Shanny is an awesome coach... remember he owns Bellicheat... he is just an awful GM.

Take a chill pill dude! I have never said Reeves is a bad, much less awful coach.

BroncoMan4ever
06-24-2012, 10:57 PM
Average HC don't make it to the AFC Championship with Jake Plummer....
One that also managed to have 3 different Pro Bowl QBs after Elway.

Shanahan's biggest problem in my opinion was he began to think too highly of himself. he developed an attitude of "i know better than everyone else" hubris ended him in Denver. that and dismantling an AFCCG team in favor of a young team led by a rookie QB who he never actually met until after he drafted him.

uplink
06-25-2012, 10:24 AM
The broncos have lost the home field advantage level they had with the old mile high stadium. They need to get some engineers in to look into making the stadium louder using things like: materials that will reflect and amplify the sound on the field.

bronco militia
06-25-2012, 10:41 AM
The broncos have lost the home field advantage level they had with the old mile high stadium. They need to get some engineers in to look into making the stadium louder using things like: materials that will reflect and amplify the sound on the field.

lol....the crowd noise was just fine in the playoff games in 2006 and 2011

lonestar
06-25-2012, 12:05 PM
Shanahan's biggest problem in my opinion was he began to think too highly of himself. he developed an attitude of "i know better than everyone else" hubris ended him in Denver. that and dismantling an AFCCG team in favor of a young team led by a rookie QB who he never actually met until after he drafted him.

While dismantling the team was needed to a degree, he did not rebuild it the way it should have been..

Other than Clady as a First piece of the OL rebuild he stopped with that thinking that was all that was needed ("i know better than everyone else")..

Anyone not flat in man love with mikey knows that our red zone running game sucked donkey balls.. the ONLY way you fix that is by getting bigger across the board.. while in 1996-1999 you could get away with 285 pound interior guys in 2005 the ZBS was more or less understood and DC had ways to beat it.. Especially inside the 20's..

once you get down there the field shrinks up and the D has less to worry about and they can stay at home, which beats the ZBS BS that worked so well late in the past decade..

AS far as I know no one other than DEN has won big in the playoffs playing ZBS..

especially no one playing it with cast off OL guys that no one else would have drafted..

It became a failure after we lost Gibbs, it made some feel good that we had the #2 offense, gave the fans that were not paying attention something to crow about.. But the few that really looked at it saw that #2 in O only equated to #17 or so in scoring and FOLKS that is the only thing that counts in todays NFL..

If he did not have the ("i know better than everyone else") attitude he would have seen his OL and Defense and DC needed the upgrade more than anything else..

Compounding it all was when Kubes left they changed the passing game to drop back and frankly that OL was not designed to keep the bulls out of the back field..

It was finally addressed by Josh trying to make the OL into a modern NFL unit..

It has been further addressed by John and Co with the additions of franklin and the other rookie this year..

Now will it be better than in years past? By adding 15+ pounds across the board get it up to NFL standards? Probably not, but it has been a step in the right direction..

Tanahans "i know better than everyone else" cost him his job, set the franchise back five years and IMO his chance at being a HOF coach..

lonestar
06-25-2012, 12:16 PM
The broncos have lost the home field advantage level they had with the old mile high stadium. They need to get some engineers in to look into making the stadium louder using things like: materials that will reflect and amplify the sound on the field.

What they really lost was real fans that came early and stayed till the final whistle..

When MH was torn down and they built a new place the blue-collar fans were more or less driven out of their house by rising ticket prices, PSLs, corporate boxes, the whine and cheese crowd moved in..On top of that the relationships built of decades of sitting next to friends ended..

add to that thousands of seat owned by companies that may have a different person sitting in it every game that makes a huge difference..

and finally those fans that did buy tickets as a partial investment and wound up selling them to opposing teams fans at a huge profit .

All this meant that less rabid Bronco fans came to games, more genteel one showed up and even more PIT fans had access to DEN home field non advantage..

and since the AFFCG hell this team has not played like teams of old.. lots of reasons why we have lost our home field advantage..

lonestar
06-25-2012, 12:23 PM
lol....the crowd noise was just fine in the playoff games in 2006 and 2011

what about the other 48 games since then..
from what I have heard in some games there has been almost as many other fans there than Bronco fans, and the ones tha have been there seemed to be sitting on their hands..

peacepipe
06-25-2012, 12:32 PM
The broncos have lost the home field advantage level they had with the old mile high stadium. They need to get some engineers in to look into making the stadium louder using things like: materials that will reflect and amplify the sound on the field.they would have to rebuild the stadium,alot of what made mile high so loud was it's steel structure which did exactly what you want to see in the new stadium. look at the seahawks stadium,it was built with the idea of creating the most noise possible by building it primarily of steel. the new mile high is primarily more of a concrete structure.BTW all the things seattle does with suites & catering to people with money is the same as denver except they built their stadium to take advantage of every bit of noise made.

BroncoBen
06-25-2012, 12:35 PM
Here's the bonus one...

Getting hot at the end of season and into the playoffs.

Not only getting hot at the end of the season, but being 'healthy' at the end of the season.

bronco militia
06-25-2012, 01:00 PM
what about the other 48 games since then..
from what I have heard in some games there has been almost as many other fans there than Bronco fans, and the ones Thai have been there seemed to be sitting on their hands..

that has nothing to do with the stadium design. Obviously we need new fans

:thanku:

Mile High Salute
06-25-2012, 01:09 PM
give me a break griese a pro bowler? IF he would have had a full season we all know that would not have happened.. the pro bowl voting was done about the time he flat lined..but good try.. and cutlet anyone that is not biased knows that Rivers would have won going away had the voting not been over when he got hot..

What happened to the pro bowler in the last few games he melted down especially in the last game against rivers..

I will use the age-old rap on Tanahan

how many playoff games did he win without John..

How many times did his teams get blown out of the water in playoff games.

Tanahan was NADA without John. Won lots of MEANINGLESS games.. His teams faded in the stretch, especially against good teams when they should be winning them if they were great teams.. Face it he was average without John..

Now I know that my POV is not popular but I figured him out long beofre the rest of of the NON man love Tanahan fans did..

But believe the myth all you want I know what I know..

Look man, I don't know what Mike Shanahan ever did to you, but how can you honestly fail to acknowledge Shanny's greatness as a coach? :homer::hitself::kiddingme Two Super Bowl rings speaks for itself, along with several other years in the playoffs and in contention. Being in the hunt year after year like he was and back-to-back titles is REALLY hard to do in the NFL and can't be overstated. (And oh yeah, what was his record against the Raiders?? :giggle::smashraid) All you gotta do is look at the abomination that was the McDoucher era to see the difference. I'm happy with the way things have worked out bringing Elway on board and getting John Fox, but it was a sad day for me when the Broncos fired Mike Shanahan.

I will give you this, that I don't think Shanny was a great GM, and he had too much power towards the end. But no one in their right mind can seriously question his credentials as a coach.

underrated29
06-25-2012, 02:05 PM
Josh mcdaniles did NOT DO SQUAT for the OL.


He brought in beadles and JD walton.- Clady was a hold over, Kuper was a hold over and Ryan Harris was a hold over. Josh only brought in those two players, who happen to be amongst the worst in the NFL at their positions.

Mcdaniels adding anything, beef or whatever to the OL is a fallacy.


Oh and teams that run the ZBS that perform well...??? HOUSTON TEXANS! They are a playoff team who did real well, with a backup QB no less.



The reason why mike couldnt score in the redzone was not the ZBS or the OL, but because he didnt have the right kind of RB for it.

The ZBS needs bigger stronger backs, when we had TD, portis, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns- those guys could power in and break some arm tackles to score. When we could not score in the redzone, who did we have at RB?

Tatum bell, selvin young, the one time we could score was with that AZ rb, the ufda kid, whatever his name was...After him it was back to 5'6 andre hall and that other small scat back that ended up in Was. It wasnt until Peyton hillis that we could then score in the RZ, but alas he got IRd.

The reason we couldnt score in the redzone was because we were on our 5th RB as the first 4 went on IR. And the guys we had were small tiny guys.

lonestar
06-25-2012, 04:02 PM
Josh mcdaniles did NOT DO SQUAT for the OL.


He brought in beadles and JD walton.- Clady was a hold over, Kuper was a hold over and Ryan Harris was a hold over. Josh only brought in those two players, who happen to be amongst the worst in the NFL at their positions.

Mcdaniels adding anything, beef or whatever to the OL is a fallacy.


Oh and teams that run the ZBS that perform well...??? HOUSTON TEXANS! They are a playoff team who did real well, with a backup QB no less.



The reason why mike couldnt score in the redzone was not the ZBS or the OL, but because he didnt have the right kind of RB for it.

The ZBS needs bigger stronger backs, when we had TD, portis, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns- those guys could power in and break some arm tackles to score. When we could not score in the redzone, who did we have at RB?

Tatum bell, selvin young, the one time we could score was with that AZ rb, the ufda kid, whatever his name was...After him it was back to 5'6 andre hall and that other small scat back that ended up in Was. It wasnt until Peyton hillis that we could then score in the RZ, but alas he got IRd.

The reason we couldnt score in the redzone was because we were on our 5th RB as the first 4 went on IR. And the guys we had were small tiny guys.

Texans win the ring and I did not hear it..?

as for those RB's Tatum bell, selvin young, who kept them on the team, Coyer? as for poorti$$, anderson and Bell did he keep them or send them elsewhere..

think before you post please..

for a smart HC he sure made a lot of dumb choices.. he could have stayed big with those players and never play teh smaller backs but he choose to make those decision KNOWING he had a RZ issue for almost a decade..

as for the OL guys that Josh drafted were they bigger thatn the scrubs that mikey had?

I said It was finally addressed by Josh trying to make the OL into a modern NFL unit..

He made an effort to bring the broncos into this century with OL guys, he got rid of the glasss ORT harris who played a shade over 50% of the games he was a bronco for..

Yes Clady and Kuper were on the team and if you took time to notice through all your hate, he kept them on the team..

Cito Pelon
06-25-2012, 04:17 PM
I believe Shanahan was with the Broncos for fourteen years. In that span, we won two Super Bowls, 3 Division Titles and took us to seven playoff appearances. He sported a 61% winning percentage and did a lot of good things for the team. I couldn't have been happier with having him as a coach for the Denver Broncos.

Shanny certainly deserves criticism in many respects, but to outright disrespect a guy who helped move this franchise forward in many was is pretty sad. Has Mike won a Lombardi after Elway retired? No, but Elway never earned a ring until Mike was his coach. They benefited from one another a great deal and 1996, 1997 and 1998 were special years to have witnessed.

Why I despise Shanahan is because he jumped ship to the Raiders. The Raiders. After being brought into the NFL and mentored by Reeves and Bowlen, the POS takes the Raider HC job. His new job description is to beat the Broncos. Dude's a POS.

lonestar
06-25-2012, 04:30 PM
Look man, I don't know what Mike Shanahan ever did to you, but how can you honestly fail to acknowledge Shanny's greatness as a coach? :homer::hitself::kiddingme Two Super Bowl rings speaks for itself, along with several other years in the playoffs and in contention. Being in the hunt year after year like he was and back-to-back titles is REALLY hard to do in the NFL and can't be overstated. (And oh yeah, what was his record against the Raiders?? :giggle::smashraid) All you gotta do is look at the abomination that was the McDoucher era to see the difference. I'm happy with the way things have worked out bringing Elway on board and getting John Fox, but it was a sad day for me when the Broncos fired Mike Shanahan.

I will give you this, that I don't think Shanny was a great GM, and he had too much power towards the end. But no one in their right mind can seriously question his credentials as a coach.


What did Tanahan ever do to me.. personally nothing..

Yes I admit he finally got us super bowl victories and for that I'll always be grateful..

But after that he did squat..

Sure he won a bunch of games in later seasons,

Did he win more than ONE playoff game since Elway retired? NO..

How many ass kicking's did we get in the playoffs?

How many times did we get our ass kicked in trap games?

How many times did his teams lead the league in scoring? or even be in the top ten..

then look at all the times we were ranked in the yards..

how many thousand yard rushers.. loads but only a couple could make it over the GL consistently and he traded them..

and since you brought it up in those last few years what was his record against the raiders? Hell those last few years he could not even get his team up to beat aldavis..

DID each of those teams have a top/decent defense? NO

Was DC a revolving door? Yes

did he resign more than 6 draft rounds 1-3 players during his reign? NO

How many games did we ever win going away? Not many..

how many games did we win with a FG's in the final minutes? loads.

Do you really think we were in the "hunt"?

regular season games really mean nothing it is the playoff or even those late season games that show the real team and frankly since John left there has been little to shout about..



Face it he was an average coach without a bunch of HOF players..

Now if your willing to sell your soul for Two rings, have a ball..

I want more than average that he was bringing this team to the last half a decade..

I had more fun last year with Tebow at the helm than almost any other time since John.. it was an exciting year..

Cito Pelon
06-25-2012, 04:35 PM
I am not dissing on Reeves talents as an overall coach! I was just saying that Reeves didn't use Elway the way his amazing talent allowed him to play. Reeves wanted a game manager. Elway is and forever will be the prototype QB for a Shanny offense. Reeves was and probably is still a very good coach... but give credit where credit is do. Yes... Shanny rode a HoF back.. and the some... but so did Reeves. Shanny is an awesome coach... remember he owns Bellicheat... he is just an awful GM.

Take a chill pill dude! I have never said Reeves is a bad, much less awful coach.

Shanny used Elway the same way Reeves did. The difference was Terrell Davis and the ZBS. Elway was very lucky to have the HC's he had through his career. Including Wade Phillips who brought in some nice talent for Shanny to work with.

Cito Pelon
06-25-2012, 04:40 PM
The broncos have lost the home field advantage level they had with the old mile high stadium. They need to get some engineers in to look into making the stadium louder using things like: materials that will reflect and amplify the sound on the field.

The new one is a sprawling kind of stadium, not compact like the old Mile High, so I don't know what they can do. That new Seattle stadium, that's compact.

underrated29
06-25-2012, 04:46 PM
Texans win the ring and I did not hear it..?

as for those RB's Tatum bell, selvin young, who kept them on the team, Coyer? as for poorti$$, anderson and Bell did he keep them or send them elsewhere..

think before you post please..

for a smart HC he sure made a lot of dumb choices.. he could have stayed big with those players and never play teh smaller backs but he choose to make those decision KNOWING he had a RZ issue for almost a decade..

as for the OL guys that Josh drafted were they bigger thatn the scrubs that mikey had?

I said

He made an effort to bring the broncos into this century with OL guys, he got rid of the glasss ORT harris who played a shade over 50% of the games he was a bronco for..

Yes Clady and Kuper were on the team and if you took time to notice through all your hate, he kept them on the team..



You said playoff teams, so I named the texans. If you dont like the answer be more specific and say teams winning the SB that run the zbs.


As for the Rbs- Anderson retired, portis was traded, Mike bell went on IR, the same year Selvin young did, and the other 4 rbs we had on the roster.


Now the OL,sure you could say he TRIED to make the OL bigger and better, by adding two players. But in fact, the two players he added were worse. So that is a fail!

Next, Mcdaniels did not get rid of ORT Harris, Harris was let go last year, the year we drafted Franklin. He was let go by fox. So think, before you post. It also just so happens, that glass harris is now back with the team.
So really all mcdaniels did was add 2 players, who were downgrades to the players we had before. Just because they were fatter doesn't mean they were better players. Although I might give beadles a slight nod over hamilton.


He did give Kuper an extension you are right. Not clady though. At leas to the best of my knowledge he did nothing with him. And he would have been run out of town even sooner had he traded him away.


I would also like to let it be known, that if Ryan Clady did not somehow miraculously fall to us at 11, we were going to take Jonathan Stewart.

lonestar
06-25-2012, 07:55 PM
You said playoff teams, so I named the texans. If you dont like the answer be more specific and say teams winning the SB that run the zbs.


As for the Rbs- Anderson retired, portis was traded, Mike bell went on IR, the same year Selvin young did, and the other 4 rbs we had on the roster.


Now the OL,sure you could say he TRIED to make the OL bigger and better, by adding two players. But in fact, the two players he added were worse. So that is a fail!

Next, Mcdaniels did not get rid of ORT Harris, Harris was let go last year, the year we drafted Franklin. He was let go by fox. So think, before you post. It also just so happens, that glass harris is now back with the team.
So really all mcdaniels did was add 2 players, who were downgrades to the players we had before. Just because they were fatter doesn't mean they were better players. Although I might give beadles a slight nod over hamilton.


He did give Kuper an extension you are right. Not clady though. At leas to the best of my knowledge he did nothing with him. And he would have been run out of town even sooner had he traded him away.


I would also like to let it be known, that if Ryan Clady did not somehow miraculously fall to us at 11, we were going to take Jonathan Stewart.

Anderson was cut from the team and he signed with the ravens.. for a few years..

http://www.nfl.com/player/mikeanderson/2504210/profile

MIke Bell went on to play in two other cities for four more years..

http://www.nfl.com/player/mikebell/2506767/profile

If you think that hamilton or the OC was better than who replaced the especially hamilton who was on roller skates in pass protection the last few years of his career well you do not have a clue about OG's..

Your correct about Harris but then he was not a starter most of his last year in DEN..

As for harriss's he started in just a shade over 50% of the games he could have while with DEN..missed loads of time with injuries and his run blocking was just a bit better that hamiltons Pass protection..


Tanahan wasted one top pick on ANOTHER head case in his career the odds of him using that top pick for a first rounder when he loved 205 pounders or less are slim and none.. I think your wishfull think was clouding your mind.. at 235 he did not fit Tanahans mold..

underrated29
06-25-2012, 09:34 PM
Anderson was cut from the team and he signed with the ravens.. for a few years..

http://www.nfl.com/player/mikeanderson/2504210/profile

MIke Bell went on to play in two other cities for four more years..

http://www.nfl.com/player/mikebell/2506767/profile

If you think that hamilton or the OC was better than who replaced the especially hamilton who was on roller skates in pass protection the last few years of his career well you do not have a clue about OG's..

Your correct about Harris but then he was not a starter most of his last year in DEN..

As for harriss's he started in just a shade over 50% of the games he could have while with DEN..missed loads of time with injuries and his run blocking was just a bit better that hamiltons Pass protection..


Tanahan wasted one top pick on ANOTHER head case in his career the odds of him using that top pick for a first rounder when he loved 205 pounders or less are slim and none.. I think your wishfull think was clouding your mind.. at 235 he did not fit Tanahans mold..




Right, but mike bell was here and went on ir before he signed with the saints. I know all about him and his career because my ex wife is married to his cousin. Still he was here and went on ir like all the rest did.

Also I said Beatles gets a slight nod over Hamilton. Retread what I said. There is no way in hell that Walton is better than Weizmann or Cory licht or our other center we had.

We ran the ball best to Harris's side. Check the stats for all the years he's been here. He also is ahead of Franklin for the starting rt job in otas. I think Franklin will still win but you never know. And he even said we would have taken Stewie had clady not been there

RaiderH8r
06-25-2012, 09:34 PM
There is only one thing that makes this team successful and that is a championship. Period.

baja
06-25-2012, 09:37 PM
There is only one thing that makes this team successful and that is a championship. Period.

I disagree.

Congrats on 9000 mostly good posts

Mile High Salute
06-25-2012, 10:44 PM
What did Tanahan ever do to me.. personally nothing..

Yes I admit he finally got us super bowl victories and for that I'll always be grateful..

But after that he did squat..

Sure he won a bunch of games in later seasons,

Did he win more than ONE playoff game since Elway retired? NO..

How many ass kicking's did we get in the playoffs?

How many times did we get our ass kicked in trap games?

How many times did his teams lead the league in scoring? or even be in the top ten..

then look at all the times we were ranked in the yards..

how many thousand yard rushers.. loads but only a couple could make it over the GL consistently and he traded them..

and since you brought it up in those last few years what was his record against the raiders? Hell those last few years he could not even get his team up to beat aldavis..

DID each of those teams have a top/decent defense? NO

Was DC a revolving door? Yes

did he resign more than 6 draft rounds 1-3 players during his reign? NO

How many games did we ever win going away? Not many..

how many games did we win with a FG's in the final minutes? loads.

Do you really think we were in the "hunt"?

regular season games really mean nothing it is the playoff or even those late season games that show the real team and frankly since John left there has been little to shout about..



Face it he was an average coach without a bunch of HOF players..

Now if your willing to sell your soul for Two rings, have a ball..

I want more than average that he was bringing this team to the last half a decade..

I had more fun last year with Tebow at the helm than almost any other time since John.. it was an exciting year..

You're all over the place, dude, but I'll try to distill what you're getting at as much as possible. Most of your comments are about mistakes Shanahan made as a GM. You'll get no argument from me there. I didn't agree with many of his personnel moves. For one thing, the Broncos and Shanahan got too cocky (IMHO) about their running game, thinking they could plug any back in there and be successful after TD, Olandis Gary, and Mike Anderson all racked up 1000 yard seasons. Then we wound up with Tatum and Mike Bell. On the defensive side of the ball, we went through a lot of defensive coordinators and couldn't find the answer. Does some of that fall on Mike? Sure, but he was an offensive guy first and foremost. He should've just focused on coaching, and he had way too much power as the head of football operations. If I was Bowlen, I would have stripped him of his GM duties (a couple years before he got fired) but kept him as the HC.

And in asking what did he do since Elway, you kind of proved my point. First compare him to his successor (McDoucher), then ask yourself what Brian Griese and Jake Plummer are doing these days and if Cowher or somebody else would've done better. Not only that, but a lot of key guys from that '98 team were either retired or somewhere else within a couple years, and not just Elway. Shannon Sharpe, Terrell Davis, Atwater, Gary Zimmerman, Schlereth, Romanowski....I could go on and on. That was a special group of guys. The NFL stands for "not for long," so for Shanahan to only have 2 losing seasons out of 10 since Elway retired is impressive in my book. And again, I think he could've been even better had he focused solely on coaching and not on micromanaging the entire football operations.

And Tebow? Come on, man - that calls into question your whole sense of judgment. (That sound you just heard was me slapping you from two states away. :giggle:) I was at the 7-3 stinker against KC as well as the game at Mile High where the Lions pounded us. Those were not exciting. The reality is that we got damn lucky with Tebow several times last year, backed into the playoffs, and never had a legitimate shot at making the Super Bowl. Now we do, so it's time to let the past go (including your strange beef with Shanahan), sit back, and enjoy the ride. :thumbsup:

Archer81
06-25-2012, 10:49 PM
Win and the "fan problem" disappears. Win in the playoffs and that place goes crazy.

The key is winning. Not ticket prices, lukewarm fans or exec boxes.

:Broncos:

NFLBRONCO
06-25-2012, 11:09 PM
Win and the "fan problem" disappears. Win in the playoffs and that place goes crazy.

The key is winning. Not ticket prices, lukewarm fans or exec boxes.

:Broncos:

I agree with what your saying about winning part. I do think the others are right as well. Denver has more lukewarm/casual fans then ever before and due to the economy die hards are more willing to sell their tickets to them. I think Manning will bring more excitment and respectability back to our franchise.

lonestar
06-26-2012, 12:56 AM
Right, but mike bell was here and went on ir before he signed with the saints. I know all about him and his career because my ex wife is married to his cousin. Still he was here and went on ir like all the rest did.

Also I said Beatles gets a slight nod over Hamilton. Retread what I said. There is no way in hell that Walton is better than Weizmann or Cory licht or our other center we had.

We ran the ball best to Harris's side. Check the stats for all the years he's been here. He also is ahead of Franklin for the starting rt job in otas. I think Franklin will still win but you never know. And he even said we would have taken Stewie had clady not been there

Yet John Fox and Elway choose to stay with Walton last year, when there was ample time to get someone else.. They even passed on Saturday in FA you know Manning center for all of his career..

Now in the draft they took a kid that followed Walton at his school.. it will be interesting to see IF anyone can beat him out..

As for Harris I doubt seriously that they will allow him to be anything but a backup given his injury history..

As for running the ball better behind Harris might be because Kuper was next to him and for the most part had our Blocking TE there most of the time..

Harris will not be the starter at the EOY this year.. most likely be on IR again..

If you believe anything that Tanahan said you're a bigger fool than I thought.. There was NO way he was going to waste a number one on a RB that was to heavy, when he could run one of his bois at 205 or less..
The O was not designed for a power runner..

Although Mike and Mike were great inside the 5 Tanahan choose not to keep either of them..

he allowed them both to get away because they did not fit his mold of a RB..

Now the real reason he cut Anderson was he was scheduled to make a couple fo mil and Tanahan asked him to take less because for the umpteenth time he was up against or over the cap ..

there is little doubt in my mind that had MA taken a cut in pay he would have still been on the payroll.. as for Bell being on IR, that does not cut you from a team, in fact it protects you from other teams poaching you..

Tanahan cut him after the season was over may have even given him a chance to get a better contract elsewhere.

Not totally sure but the bottom line was he did not like the bigger back or at least did not want to pay big money for one..

Time will tell what happens.. but you can put money on harris not ending the year as a starter at ORT..

lonestar
06-26-2012, 01:26 AM
You're all over the place, dude, but I'll try to distill what you're getting at as much as possible. Most of your comments are about mistakes Shanahan made as a GM. You'll get no argument from me there. I didn't agree with many of his personnel moves. For one thing, the Broncos and Shanahan got too cocky (IMHO) about their running game, thinking they could plug any back in there and be successful after TD, Olandis Gary, and Mike Anderson all racked up 1000 yard seasons. Then we wound up with Tatum and Mike Bell. On the defensive side of the ball, we went through a lot of defensive coordinators and couldn't find the answer. Does some of that fall on Mike? Sure, but he was an offensive guy first and foremost. He should've just focused on coaching, and he had way too much power as the head of football operations. If I was Bowlen, I would have stripped him of his GM duties (a couple years before he got fired) but kept him as the HC.

And in asking what did he do since Elway, you kind of proved my point. First compare him to his successor (McDoucher), then ask yourself what Brian Griese and Jake Plummer are doing these days and if Cowher or somebody else would've done better. Not only that, but a lot of key guys from that '98 team were either retired or somewhere else within a couple years, and not just Elway. Shannon Sharpe, Terrell Davis, Atwater, Gary Zimmerman, Schlereth, Romanowski....I could go on and on. That was a special group of guys. The NFL stands for "not for long," so for Shanahan to only have 2 losing seasons out of 10 since Elway retired is impressive in my book. And again, I think he could've been even better had he focused solely on coaching and not on micromanaging the entire football operations.

And Tebow? Come on, man - that calls into question your whole sense of judgment. (That sound you just heard was me slapping you from two states away. :giggle:) I was at the 7-3 stinker against KC as well as the game at Mile High where the Lions pounded us. Those were not exciting. The reality is that we got damn lucky with Tebow several times last year, backed into the playoffs, and never had a legitimate shot at making the Super Bowl. Now we do, so it's time to let the past go (including your strange beef with Shanahan), sit back, and enjoy the ride. :thumbsup:


Prior to the following highlighted comment we are in pretty much agreement..

BUT.
yet everyone that was told of that said he would walk and they would rather have him than anyone else, furthermore they all maintained he would be hired within as few as 15 minutes if he did quit or be fired.. I think we all know that did not happen..

It goes as an understanding that when John left most if not all the other tlent retired or boogied for higher money..

Yet the point is still valid without John he won ONE playoff game and got killed in all the others.. Not just beat but ass kicking time in everyone of them..

If your happy with "winning" seasons I'm really happy for you.. I'm wanting my team to put ass kickings on the other team.. and for the most part those games we lost during his "winning" seasons were ass kickings.

there were lots of trap games we flat did not show up for.. DET and BUF come to mind and there were more..

Being unable to win a east coast early game during his reign was pathetic and how many times on national tv MNF did we get our asses kciked..


Now I could care less about Joshs winning or losing I jsut wanted a change and he started a change in thought process bringing in bigger, faster, smarter players during his time in DEN.. Crap canning the head cases while he was at it..

But just like Tanahan he was not given a real GM to help out.. SO some decisions were less than stellar..

as were most of Tanahans..

The only guys of round 1-3 that Tanahan ever resigned were, DJ (frankly most folks think that was a mistake), Al Wilson, Griese, Mobley, Dan Neil and trevor pryce .

that is 6 players out of 41 that he DAFTED in rounds 1-3.. Three LBs actually four if you count Pryce mostly palyed LB in college, one OG and a QB that even his dog did not like..

the ones that all the great teams for the most part have built the foundations fo their franchises on.. 6 of 41 one is a telling stat, almost none of the others daftees never made it out of TC #3.. I'm guessing keeping them that long, made them less of a bust..

I do have to say he pulled off a couple of great trades getting champ for a head case poorti$$, and IIRC got some more DAFT choices for foster and gary.. Much more than they were worth..


Again IF your happy with Tanahan, have a ball. I'm not, he could have been the best with talent instead of second tier players, that he hand picked....

As for Tebow I have to ask since you were at the games, did the stands empty out in the fourth like they had for the past 8-10 years?

or did folks stick around to see if he would pull a rabbit out of his hat and win a game..

I know I never turned the TV off and walked away KNOWING it was futile..

I stuck around to see what IF..

Bacchus
06-26-2012, 03:01 AM
lol....the crowd noise was just fine in the playoff games in 2006 and 2011

Do you mean in 2005 When Steeler fans filled the stadium? Yeah they were pretty loud alright.

Bacchus
06-26-2012, 03:02 AM
Prior to the following highlighted comment we are in pretty much agreement..

BUT.
yet everyone that was told of that said he would walk and they would rather have him than anyone else, furthermore they all maintained he would be hired within as few as 15 minutes if he did quit or be fired.. I think we all know that did not happen..

It goes as an understanding that when John left most if not all the other tlent retired or boogied for higher money..

Yet the point is still valid without John he won ONE playoff game and got killed in all the others.. Not just beat but ass kicking time in everyone of them..

If your happy with "winning" seasons I'm really happy for you.. I'm wanting my team to put ass kickings on the other team.. and for the most part those games we lost during his "winning" seasons were ass kickings.

there were lots of trap games we flat did not show up for.. DET and BUF come to mind and there were more..

Being unable to win a east coast early game during his reign was pathetic and how many times on national tv MNF did we get our asses kciked..


Now I could care less about Joshs winning or losing I jsut wanted a change and he started a change in thought process bringing in bigger, faster, smarter players during his time in DEN.. Crap canning the head cases while he was at it..

But just like Tanahan he was not given a real GM to help out.. SO some decisions were less than stellar..

as were most of Tanahans..

The only guys of round 1-3 that Tanahan ever resigned were, DJ (frankly most folks think that was a mistake), Al Wilson, Griese, Mobley, Dan Neil and trevor pryce .

that is 6 players out of 41 that he DAFTED in rounds 1-3.. Three LBs actually four if you count Pryce mostly palyed LB in college, one OG and a QB that even his dog did not like..

the ones that all the great teams for the most part have built the foundations fo their franchises on.. 6 of 41 one is a telling stat, almost none of the others daftees never made it out of TC #3.. I'm guessing keeping them that long, made them less of a bust..

I do have to say he pulled off a couple of great trades getting champ for a head case poorti$$, and IIRC got some more DAFT choices for foster and gary.. Much more than they were worth..


Again IF your happy with Tanahan, have a ball. I'm not, he could have been the best with talent instead of second tier players, that he hand picked....

As for Tebow I have to ask since you were at the games, did the stands empty out in the fourth like they had for the past 8-10 years?

or did folks stick around to see if he would pull a rabbit out of his hat and win a game..

I know I never turned the TV off and walked away KNOWING it was futile..

I stuck around to see what IF..

Wow, Dude, SAD

lonestar
06-26-2012, 02:16 PM
Do you mean in 2005 When Steeler fans filled the stadium? Yeah they were pretty loud alright.

to many of the whine and cheese fans that sold there sould and allowed the PIT fans to buy their tickets..

Not the old blue collar fans that packed MHS.. It would have never happened with those fans..

lonestar
06-26-2012, 02:58 PM
Wow, Dude, SAD

Why, I made my points and frankly no one has refuted most of them..

Tanahan was a great OC almost none better than perhaps Walsh in the modern era..

But he sucked balls as a HC after the HOFers retired or left for more money because we were maxed out each year..

One playoff win after John and company left.. and loads of ASS kicking's the other times..

I just do not understand why y'all do not get it and have so much loyalty to a guy who IMO drove the franchise into the ground with really bad personnel decisions as the head GUY..

6 of 41.. Had he been able to find another ten or fifteen players in the draft to build the franchise on IMO he would have been unstoppable..

but he allowed players like Pryce, Atwater, Reagor, Kennedy, Hayward, Foxworth all 1-3 picks to get into FA, not to mention picking up a few slugs like a ONE HANDED WR with the #54 pick in the 2004 draft, Leaving behind players such as..

55 Jacksonville Jaguars Greg Jones RB Florida State
56 Cincinnati Bengals Madieu Williams FS Maryland
57 Tennessee Titans Antwan Odom DE Alabama
58 San Francisco 49ers Shawntae Spencer CB Pittsburgh
59 Cleveland Browns Sean Jones SAF Georgia
62 Carolina Panthers Keary Colbert WR USC
63 New England Patriots Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State
2004 - Round 3
SEL # TEAM PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
64 Arizona Cardinals Darnell Dockett DT Florida State
65 San Diego Chargers Nate Kaeding K Iowa
66 San Diego Chargers Nick Hardwick C Purdue
70 Green Bay Packers Joey Thomas CB Montana State
71 Tennessee Titans Randy Starks DT Maryland
75 Pittsburgh Steelers Max Starks T Florida
78 Chicago Bears Bernard Berrian WR Fresno State
81 Washington Redskins Chris Cooley TE Utah State
State Most of which are still starters in the NFL..


Why do you not see it..

his winning %?

for the most part they were early season games and when it because crunch time they folded like in the playoffs..

I would have loved him as OC and maybe even HC if a GM would have final say on players and D coaches.. But he had to be God and it cost us years of chances to win rings..

Cito Pelon
06-29-2012, 09:15 PM
Why, I made my points and frankly no one has refuted most of them..

Tanahan was a great OC almost none better than perhaps Walsh in the modern era..

But he sucked balls as a HC after the HOFers retired or left for more money because we were maxed out each year..

One playoff win after John and company left.. and loads of ASS kicking's the other times..

I just do not understand why y'all do not get it and have so much loyalty to a guy who IMO drove the franchise into the ground with really bad personnel decisions as the head GUY..

6 of 41.. Had he been able to find another ten or fifteen players in the draft to build the franchise on IMO he would have been unstoppable..

but he allowed players like Pryce, Atwater, Reagor, Kennedy, Hayward, Foxworth all 1-3 picks to get into FA, not to mention picking up a few slugs like a ONE HANDED WR with the #54 pick in the 2004 draft, Leaving behind players such as..

55 Jacksonville Jaguars Greg Jones RB Florida State
56 Cincinnati Bengals Madieu Williams FS Maryland
57 Tennessee Titans Antwan Odom DE Alabama
58 San Francisco 49ers Shawntae Spencer CB Pittsburgh
59 Cleveland Browns Sean Jones SAF Georgia
62 Carolina Panthers Keary Colbert WR USC
63 New England Patriots Marquise Hill DE Louisiana State
2004 - Round 3
SEL # TEAM PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL
64 Arizona Cardinals Darnell Dockett DT Florida State
65 San Diego Chargers Nate Kaeding K Iowa
66 San Diego Chargers Nick Hardwick C Purdue
70 Green Bay Packers Joey Thomas CB Montana State
71 Tennessee Titans Randy Starks DT Maryland
75 Pittsburgh Steelers Max Starks T Florida
78 Chicago Bears Bernard Berrian WR Fresno State
81 Washington Redskins Chris Cooley TE Utah State
State Most of which are still starters in the NFL..


Why do you not see it..

his winning %?

for the most part they were early season games and when it because crunch time they folded like in the playoffs..

I would have loved him as OC and maybe even HC if a GM would have final say on players and D coaches.. But he had to be God and it cost us years of chances to win rings..

Yeah, Shanny's limit was HC. He's proven he isn't capable beyond that. But he keeps trying, you have to give him points for being persistent.

lonestar
06-29-2012, 10:31 PM
Yeah, Shanny's limit was HC. He's proven he isn't capable beyond that. But he keeps trying, you have to give him points for being persistent.

Your welcome to do so BUT I'll pass..

IMO the biggest mistake ever made in Denver was Pat "giving him a contract for life"

HAd that not happened perhaps his head would not have swelled up like a hot air balloon and hundreds of player Fubar would not have happened..

think of how may millions could have been saved for USE now had he not given out stupid UFA bonuses and contracts..

If Pat is trying to save money it was because Tanahan drove him into the NFL poor house..

gunns
06-30-2012, 10:06 AM
Shanahan's biggest problem in my opinion was he began to think too highly of himself. he developed an attitude of "i know better than everyone else" hubris ended him in Denver. that and dismantling an AFCCG team in favor of a young team led by a rookie QB who he never actually met until after he drafted him.

Agree, for the most part. But I don't believe he dismantled that AFCCG team except for bringing in that rookie QB and I don't believe that was his undoing. That divisional playoff game was won in spite of the QB playing and that QB was a huge part of losing that AFCCG. His undoing is what you stated before and the fact his focus became narrowed to offense and the defense was an after thought he threw garbage at, including the coaches.

lonestar
06-30-2012, 12:31 PM
Agree, for the most part. But I don't believe he dismantled that AFCCG team except for bringing in that rookie QB and I don't believe that was his undoing. That divisional playoff game was won in spite of the QB playing and that QB was a huge part of losing that AFCCG. His undoing is what you stated before and the fact his focus became narrowed to offense and the defense was an after thought he threw garbage at, including the coaches.

He'd had his ass kicked so many times by the high horsepower offenses I believe he thought if the O was that strong NO one could beat them..

For that matter the super bowl teams even then not a lot of uber talent was on them, at least very few good young players, mostly 2-3 rentals.. and Many times our O was so far ahead after the first quarter he did not play the a Game against until the last quarters, when we were threatened because the Defense had allowed them back into the game..

None of his teams had a killer instinct from what I saw..

A great and prolific OC IMO but not much more than that..

jerseyboiler120
06-30-2012, 12:39 PM
He'll go down having one of the best overall records as a coach in NFL history, and part of an extremely small fraternity wth more than 1 SB Win. He got derailed when they gave him everything. That's just a bad mix and really hasn't worked in NFL (maybe you can find 1 or 2, but the large majority that were given total control never lived up to what they did before).

Saying he wasn't a good coach is wrong.

lonestar
06-30-2012, 01:28 PM
He'll go down having one of the best overall records as a coach in NFL history, and part of an extremely small fraternity wth more than 1 SB Win. He got derailed when they gave him everything. That's just a bad mix and really hasn't worked in NFL (maybe you can find 1 or 2, but the large majority that were given total control never lived up to what they did before).

Saying he wasn't a good coach is wrong.

He was a great OC but as a HC he screwed this franchise right into the ground.. that is a fact..

had he been able to continue instead of being fired most likely his vaunted offense would have gotten him to a couple more play off games where once again he would have gotten our asses kicked because he believed that Offense could win it all..

Tanahans teams faded in the stretch from almost the gitgo.. When your interior OL is at 285 going into the season, then playing against guys that are 310-385 all year how much do you think they weigh at the end of the year how healthy can they be even IF they do not have broken bones in their hands..

He had a few seasons where all he had to do was win one game in the last three to get into the playoffs.. but they got there asses kicked..
For example

2008
DEN 10 CAR 30
DEN 23 BIL 30
DEN 21 SAN 52

SO far he has proved nothing in WAS and did little in OAK before coming back to DEN.. was brilliant coach with Walsh, Montana RIce etal after OAK..

Had raft of talent he inherited when he came back here 3 HOF players and several that may make it in.. Smith and TD.. and he rented a bunch of talent for those couple of years .. but since he had ONE playoff win in those final years and frankly not sure NE was not looking past us in that one..

had one decent draft on all of his years in DEN and that well was full of head cases..

Sorry but your idolization of Tanahan falls on my deaf ears..

Bacchus
06-30-2012, 06:12 PM
He was a great OC but as a HC he screwed this franchise right into the ground.. that is a fact..

had he been able to continue instead of being fired most likely his vaunted offense would have gotten him to a couple more play off games where once again he would have gotten our asses kicked because he believed that Offense could win it all..

Tanahans teams faded in the stretch from almost the gitgo.. When your interior OL is at 285 going into the season, then playing against guys that are 310-385 all year how much do you think they weigh at the end of the year how healthy can they be even IF they do not have broken bones in their hands..
.

You are like a broking record. Do you have anything to contribute besides your hatred for the man that brought Denver two SB titles?

lonestar
06-30-2012, 07:22 PM
You are like a broking record. Do you have anything to contribute besides your hatred for the man that brought Denver two SB titles?

Yep saying what needs to be said, until all the head in the sand folks get that while he got us two rings..

That I'll forever be gratful.. He did us no favors other than that..
But Pat should have hired a REAL GM directly there after.. along with that a real DC that reported to the GM..

I'm guessing mickey the mope might have been able to coach all that talent to maybe even three wins in a row..

After all he managed not to have "his" team ready for the HOME Jags game the year before..what is even more laughable it was an expansion team..

I do not hate the guy, I just have zero patience with knuckle heads that think he walked on water.. that idolize him..

Broncos_OTM
06-30-2012, 08:13 PM
Because you are a 50-some year old man coming up with childish monikers for Mike Shanahan. Shut up already.
you really should take your own advice here.. some of the stuff you say is borderline retarded. specially your net reps ..

lonestar
06-30-2012, 08:31 PM
you really should take your own advice here.. some of the stuff you say is borderline retarded. specially your net reps ..

Have about 5 folks on IGGY, with him being first and your absolutely correct "some of the stuff you say is borderline retarded. specially your net reps"..

But then I would not have seen this had you not quoted his "some of the stuff you say is borderline retarded. specially your net reps"

:thumbs:

I suspect he is pissed because he can no longer neg rep me nor send me childish PM's..

Bacchus
06-30-2012, 10:47 PM
Yep saying what needs to be said, until all the head in the sand folks get that while he got us two rings..

That I'll forever be gratful.. He did us no favors other than that..
But Pat should have hired a REAL GM directly there after.. along with that a real DC that reported to the GM..

I'm guessing mickey the mope might have been able to coach all that talent to maybe even three wins in a row..

After all he managed not to have "his" team ready for the HOME Jags game the year before..what is even more laughable it was an expansion team..

I do not hate the guy, I just have zero patience with knuckle heads that think he walked on water.. that idolize him..

Other than bringing Denver it's ONLY two SB wins he did us no other favors? LOL OK, Whatever dude. Let it go. I do not even think he coaches in Denver anymore???

errand
07-07-2012, 12:27 PM
LOL...the most heated debates in threads are almost always about former players and coaches that toil on other teams...Shanahan, Tebow, and Cutler.

RaiderH8r
07-07-2012, 02:36 PM
I disagree.

Congrats on 9000 mostly good posts

Thanks.

You know I am right. Playoffs with Tebow is success. Scuttling Tebow and $95 mil on a rickety crap neck is a win now move. If this team does not win a title with Manning under center it is a failure. Hell, if they don't get to the AFCCG this year it is a failure.

peacepipe
07-07-2012, 05:13 PM
Thanks.

You know I am right. Playoffs with Tebow is success. Scuttling Tebow and $95 mil on a rickety crap neck is a win now move. If this team does not win a title with Manning under center it is a failure. Hell, if they don't get to the AFCCG this year it is a failure.

31 teams end up in failure every season. so we make the playoffs this yr & not make the AFCCG but win a SB the next yr is it still a failure?

lonestar
07-08-2012, 12:14 AM
Other than bringing Denver it's ONLY two SB wins he did us no other favors? LOL OK, Whatever dude. Let it go. I do not even think he coaches in Denver anymore???

So had Dano had UFA available to him like Tanahan did do you think he could not have won those same games.

I love it when all anyone can reply about is his two rings. When there is way so much else to talk about.
His failure to keep quality players past their rookie contracts.
His uber crappy drafting record
His signing über crappy UFA after the one wave of them for the SB years.
His team losing a couple three trap games a year
His inability to win an early game in Florida
For that matter losing most early games on the east coast.
His failure to be able to score like an average team inside the red zone for most of his career post JOHN.
His great offenses that were top five but middle range in scoring.
His total failure to hire a competent DC
His inability to win big games (playoff ) without John and his buds.

Yeah Tanahan is a real peach.

But enjoy your bromance. Also follow him to his next team as an OC in 2014 because he got his ass fired AGAIN In 2013.

RaiderH8r
07-08-2012, 10:27 AM
31 teams end up in failure every season. so we make the playoffs this yr & not make the AFCCG but win a SB the next yr is it still a failure?

No AFCCG this year us a failure. No SB next year is a failure. No title with Manning under center and the whole thing is a steaming bucket of **** up failure.

Tebow, who by all accounts is a ****ing embarrassment to the position, took us into the playoffs and got us a win. If the vaunted Manning can't win a SB with this club then it is a failure of monumental proportions. Top ten NFL fails of all time caliber.

lonestar
07-08-2012, 11:35 AM
No AFCCG this year us a failure. No SB next year is a failure. No title with Manning under center and the whole thing is a steaming bucket of **** up failure.

Tebow, who by all accounts is a ****ing embarrassment to the position, took us into the playoffs and got us a win. If the vaunted Manning can't win a SB with this club then it is a failure of monumental proportions. Top ten NFL fails of all time caliber.

While I know past performances of teams is not indicative of future playing. You do realize we have the second toughest schedule this coming year.

I see no huge reason those 6 playoff teams on the schedule will not be as good as they were last year. Unless they have a catastrophic injury they should all be playing at that level again this year.
While we have indeed improved not sure we are gonna sneak up on anyone this year. No trap games for the other teams they will all be bringing their A games.

It is most likely a 5 to 7 win season. For us, because of the youth of the team, the lack of continuity with Defensive coaching a new and AGAIN improved Playbook on both sides and PM as good as he is flat does not have that confidence in his players to know that a wink at Harrison meant something they only knew. He will not have those kind of players this coming year.

RaiderH8r
07-08-2012, 01:50 PM
While I know past performances of teams is not indicative of future playing. You do realize we have the second toughest schedule this coming year.

I see no huge reason those 6 playoff teams on the schedule will not be as good as they were last year. Unless they have a catastrophic injury they should all be playing at that level again this year.
While we have indeed improved not sure we are gonna sneak up on anyone this year. No trap games for the other teams they will all be bringing their A games.

It is most likely a 5 to 7 win season. For us, because of the youth of the team, the lack of continuity with Defensive coaching a new and AGAIN improved Playbook on both sides and PM as good as he is flat does not have that confidence in his players to know that a wink at Harrison meant something they only knew. He will not have those kind of players this coming year.

That's a bucket full of excuses. None of which would have been acceptable with Tebow QB for this team so they are a damn sight more pathetic with the $95 million man under center. No excuses. Just win. Our FO took the big money FA win now approach so they sure as hell better win right now. I don't give two low flying screws about how tough the schedule is and neither should anyone else.

DBroncos4life
07-08-2012, 02:41 PM
That's a bucket full of excuses. None of which would have been acceptable with Tebow QB for this team so they are a damn sight more pathetic with the $95 million man under center. No excuses. Just win. Our FO took the big money FA win now approach so they sure as hell better win right now. I don't give two low flying screws about how tough the schedule is and neither should anyone else.

http://s13.postimage.org/a20hr5f0z/images_1.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/a20hr5f0z/) someday this guy will find your cave....

peacepipe
07-08-2012, 04:45 PM
No AFCCG this year us a failure. No SB next year is a failure. No title with Manning under center and the whole thing is a steaming bucket of **** up failure.

Tebow, who by all accounts is a ****ing embarrassment to the position, took us into the playoffs and got us a win. If the vaunted Manning can't win a SB with this club then it is a failure of monumental proportions. Top ten NFL fails of all time caliber.you're ignoring everythingelse that went into us backing into the playoffs.Tebow didn't get us into the playoffs,it was the raiders losing that got us into the playoffs. you also ignore the 4 out of 5 losses to end the season. last yr was a fluke,once teams like KC,NE, Buffalo figured out tebow it was all over. everybody but you realized the tebow train came to a screaching halt. Tebow never improved going through the season. Elway said from the get go Tebow needed to improve on 3rd down conv. & pass comp.,which he never improved on. wether we win a SB with PM or not,tebow was never in the cards when came to being the QBOTF for the broncos. I think that denver would of got rid of tebow regardless of wether we signed PM or didn't sign PM.

peacepipe
07-08-2012, 04:50 PM
That's a bucket full of excuses. None of which would have been acceptable with Tebow QB for this team so they are a damn sight more pathetic with the $95 million man under center. No excuses. Just win. Our FO took the big money FA win now approach so they sure as hell better win right now. I don't give two low flying screws about how tough the schedule is and neither should anyone else.you must feel like a real ass for the support you gave tebow only to see denver trade him. you should've listened to me,I've said since tebow being drafted that he would be a bust & also stated, even during the winning streak we were on this past season,that tebow would be gone after the season. nobody listened of course but here we are.

Agamemnon
07-08-2012, 08:07 PM
I find it interesting how bets are being hedged more and more as we get closer to the season. Very strange really.

Manning was brought in to win a Super Bowl, and if he doesn't do so before he retires this whole experiment will have been a massive failure. Period.

RaiderH8r
07-08-2012, 08:44 PM
I find it interesting how bets are being hedged more and more as we get closer to the season. Very strange really.

Manning was brought in to win a Super Bowl, and if he doesn't do so before he retires this whole experiment will have been a massive failure. Period.

Indeed. The mad dash for the excuse line is growing by the minute. Last year was a fluke, we have a tough schedule blah blah blah. Just win the ****ing games and shut the **** up with the excuses. Whatever latitude Tebow was given means manning gets about 99% less. This guy better have a career year. God help this club if they win less than 8 and whiff the playoffs.

RaiderH8r
07-08-2012, 08:52 PM
Signing Manning is a Shanny move on steroids. Trumps Jerry Jones, trumps Dan Snyder, trumps Al Davis and arguably stands as the most significant FA signing in the history of the NFL. A Lombardi is the only thing that makes this move worthwhile and anyone who thinks differently is deluding themselves and, frankly, I don't understand why they would even fire up the excuse machine. Every Bronco fan should demand this club deliver titles and right now given the magnitude of this move.

lonestar
07-10-2012, 12:52 AM
That's a bucket full of excuses. None of which would have been acceptable with Tebow QB for this team so they are a damn sight more pathetic with the $95 million man under center. No excuses. Just win. Our FO took the big money FA win now approach so they sure as hell better win right now. I don't give two low flying screws about how tough the schedule is and neither should anyone else.

Actually those are reasons Not excuses and frankly it matters little what you think of the toughness of the schedule.

What matters is how the NFL sets it up for evening out of the teams. They match the strong against the strong and the weak against OAK.

Yes the Duke is rolling the dice on Manning. But considering the youth on the team as well as all the changes we are unlikely to be a well oiled machine much before mid season if then. IIRC we play 6 playoff caliber teams with little or no change other than another years exprience and for the most part better players.

The likely hood of beating all of them is slim and none, the likely hood is mostly getting our asses kicked in those games.

Unless our D really gets great fast, we do not have a chance to win more than 7. And that is counting on no injuries.

For those DJ lovers he will be out at least 6 games and most likely 8. How are we ever going to beat those teams without that tackling machine. Ahahahahahahaha

lonestar
07-10-2012, 01:02 AM
Signing Manning is a Shanny move on steroids. Trumps Jerry Jones, trumps Dan Snyder, trumps Al Davis and arguably stands as the most significant FA signing in the history of the NFL. A Lombardi is the only thing that makes this move worthwhile and anyone who thinks differently is deluding themselves and, frankly, I don't understand why they would even fire up the excuse machine. Every Bronco fan should demand this club deliver titles and right now given the magnitude of this move.

Yep I'm going to demand from John and Pat that we win right now. Let just hope the other teams forfeit. because that is about the only way it happens.

Been watching this team since 1960 and have my hopes up just like you have for most of those years.
After having them dashed for almost all of those years since. I have become realistic about no being the only team that wants to win.

Every team has the same goals and for the most part have better players and some have better coaches.
So why your demanding to win, is well unrealistic.

Wish in one hand, crap in the other see which one fills up first.

RaiderH8r
07-10-2012, 11:25 AM
Actually those are reasons Not excuses and frankly it matters little what you think of the toughness of the schedule.

What matters is how the NFL sets it up for evening out of the teams. They match the strong against the strong and the weak against OAK.

Yes the Duke is rolling the dice on Manning. But considering the youth on the team as well as all the changes we are unlikely to be a well oiled machine much before mid season if then. IIRC we play 6 playoff caliber teams with little or no change other than another years exprience and for the most part better players.

The likely hood of beating all of them is slim and none, the likely hood is mostly getting our asses kicked in those games.

Unless our D really gets great fast, we do not have a chance to win more than 7. And that is counting on no injuries.

For those DJ lovers he will be out at least 6 games and most likely 8. How are we ever going to beat those teams without that tackling machine. Ahahahahahahaha

None of those excuses flew when Tebow is under center. Far less so with Manning.

Strength of schedule means squat.teams that are supposed to be good tank and teams that are supposed to be bad over perform every year. Manning was brought in to win now. We skipped upgrading positions and largely sat out FA chasing the guy so Manning damn well better perform and immediately. There is not going to be much tolerance for his neck issues or youth or any of that other crap. The neck issues were to have been examined and addressed prior to signing him. Youth didn't matter a lick when TT was under center and Manning just cashed in for his retirement. No excuses. Tis team needs to run deep into the playoffs just to have this,ove viewed as passable. Like I said, bigger than Shanny's moves, bigger than Davis, Jones, and Snyder. This could be the biggest FA bust ever or it is title time. There is no middle ground.

lonestar
07-10-2012, 11:22 PM
None of those excuses flew when Tebow is under center. Far less so with Manning.

Strength of schedule means squat.teams that are supposed to be good tank and teams that are supposed to be bad over perform every year. Manning was brought in to win now. We skipped upgrading positions and largely sat out FA chasing the guy so Manning damn well better perform and immediately. There is not going to be much tolerance for his neck issues or youth or any of that other crap. The neck issues were to have been examined and addressed prior to signing him. Youth didn't matter a lick when TT was under center and Manning just cashed in for his retirement. No excuses. Tis team needs to run deep into the playoffs just to have this,ove viewed as passable. Like I said, bigger than Shanny's moves, bigger than Davis, Jones, and Snyder. This could be the biggest FA bust ever or it is title time. There is no middle ground.

Your correct about it potentially being a CF.

But think it will be somewhere in between a CF and an super bowl win..

As for Tebow sorry you have a hard on for him.

No one with a half a brain expected much out of him. Any win or close game was a plus.

RaiderH8r
07-11-2012, 08:04 PM
Your correct about it potentially being a CF.

But think it will be somewhere in between a CF and an super bowl win..

As for Tebow sorry you have a hard on for him.

No one with a half a brain expected much out of him. Any win or close game was a plus.

I am just pointing out to all the hedgers that TT was afforded no quarter and neither should Manning.

FFS, it is Peyton Manning. It is either win it all or GTFO there is no room for middle ground. We mortgaged quite a bit to get him. No D upgrades, no FA moves while we waited for him to figure it the hell out and $95 million reasons this needs to work today. Manning gets zero latitude. No excuses. Win the whole ****in thing.

There is no mediocrity with this move . Either win or it is a failure. That. Is. It.

errand
07-11-2012, 08:26 PM
I find it interesting how bets are being hedged more and more as we get closer to the season. Very strange really.

Manning was brought in to win a Super Bowl, and if he doesn't do so before he retires this whole experiment will have been a massive failure. Period.

Ok...but let's look at it from this side of the coin....

Tebow was drafted to win a SB....why else would we have spent a 1st round pick on him? and since he didn't do so before his Broncos career was over, and given we only got a mere 4th round pick for him, and his new team has him doing almost everything, anything but QB means that entire experiment is a complete failure, no?

lonestar
07-13-2012, 12:04 PM
Ok...but let's look at it from this side of the coin....

Tebow was drafted to win a SB....why else would we have spent a 1st round pick on him? and since he didn't do so before his Broncos career was over, and given we only got a mere 4th round pick for him, and his new team has him doing almost everything, anything but QB means that entire experiment is a complete failure, no?

NO.
Since we all know that Sanchex has suckatude it is a matter of time before Tebow is behind center.

FWIW. Tebow was a 3-4 year project when drafted. But I doubt you want to hear that. or will remember that unless reminded.

After he has had a chance in more than one TC off season perhaps he will be coached into all those things that some seem to think has to be exact before one can be a QB.

Most forget all the intangibles that great athletes bring to the game, because they are a bit unorthodox.

May never be a pro bowler or HOFer but there are hundreds more drafted higher than him that were sure things that busted. Or playing back up some where .

His ability to do more than just drop back and pass may have much more value at this minute to the Jets. Just maybe they are gong to coach him up at his pace. Waiting for Sanchez to well "Sanchez"