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Kaylore
06-15-2012, 09:52 AM
Peyton Manning's presnap maneuvers make him almost unsackable


"He just works at it really hard," Broncos coach John Fox said. "He's able to get in and out of plays based on what the defense does. Not all quarterbacks have that capability. He makes you show what you're doing. You try to disguise what you're doing, and he does such a good job with his cadence, with what he's doing to make you think the snap is about to come, you show what you're doing and he gets them into something else.

Read more: Peyton Manning's presnap maneuvers make him almost unsackable - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_20861842/peyton-mannings-presnap-maneuvers-make-him-almost-unsackable#ixzz1xsj2OYVb
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Cmac821
06-15-2012, 09:56 AM
Recently Madden has let you feel the wrath of Manning, no huddle and adjustments at the line. You can see it in the games when he goes three plays 30+ yards. Not only can he make them show the play it looks like it really slows down the momentum of the on coming rushers when the ball is snapped after they already crashed the line

oubronco
06-15-2012, 09:58 AM
I haven't been this excited for an upcoming season in a long time!!

DBroncos4life
06-15-2012, 10:08 AM
Good thing cause all I heard all off season is how bad his neck is and how our OL couldn't block a tissue paper.

Kaylore
06-15-2012, 10:17 AM
Good thing cause all I heard all off season is how bad his neck is and how our OL couldn't block a tissue paper.

This goes back to how at least half (I think more in many cases) of all sacks are on the QB. The mobile QB's get sacked more than the pocket passers. There is an art to it for sure.

gyldenlove
06-15-2012, 10:37 AM
This goes back to how at least half (I think more in many cases) of all sacks are on the QB. The mobile QB's get sacked more than the pocket passers. There is an art to it for sure.

In todays NFL pass protection and passing schemes have become so advanced and so timing based that pass rush is almost entirely negated as the primary force behind sacks. Today sacks happen mostly because of good coverage, miscommunication between blockers or between blockers and QB.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 10:48 AM
In todays NFL pass protection and passing schemes have become so advanced and so timing based that pass rush is almost entirely negated as the primary force behind sacks. Today sacks happen mostly because of good coverage, miscommunication between blockers or between blockers and QB.

So when the Minnesota Vikings led the league in sacks last year, it had nothing to do with a stud like Jared Allen. It was really about the Purple's superb work in the secondary I heard so much about last December. LOL

gyldenlove
06-15-2012, 11:55 AM
So when the Minnesota Vikings led the league in sacks last year, it had nothing to do with a stud like Jared Allen. It was really about the Purple's superb work in the secondary I heard so much about last December. LOL

Try to read an entire sentence before you try to formulate a response - it will save all of us some time and effort.

R-Mac
06-15-2012, 12:01 PM
Okay, just don't do this after the snap:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7nBxHse5s74" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That was so Tebow.

DivineLegion
06-15-2012, 12:07 PM
So when the Minnesota Vikings led the league in sacks last year, it had nothing to do with a stud like Jared Allen. It was really about the Purple's superb work in the secondary I heard so much about last December. LOL

Yea I hear the Broncos Rookie Von Miller was only a product of Champ Baileys success.

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-15-2012, 12:13 PM
I thought tebow was getting sacked cause the recievers couldn't seperate?

Kaylore
06-15-2012, 12:19 PM
I thought tebow was getting sacked cause the recievers couldn't seperate?

And the offensive line is terrible.

And the play calling was bad.

And it was a conspiracy because John Elway was jealous.

R-Mac
06-15-2012, 12:23 PM
I think Tebow was victim of a terrible performance by the OL against the Patriots, he did not have a chance behind that OL, but overall he fails to find wide open receivers in the middle of the field. A well covered receiver in the eyes of Tebow is an open receiver in the eyes of Manning. And Tebow struggles to find anyone after the primary receiver while Manning can read the whole field.

razorwire77
06-15-2012, 12:25 PM
And the offensive line is terrible.

And the play calling was bad.

And it was a conspiracy because John Elway was jealous.

The defense should always hold after back to back to back to back 3 and outs.

Pat Bowlen is broke and as such deliberately wants to sabotage Timmy's passing numbers to avoid having to renegotiate his contract.

Jay3
06-15-2012, 12:26 PM
I think Tebow was victim of a terrible performance by the OL against the Patriots, he did not have a chance behind that OL, but overall he fails to find wide open receivers in the middle of the field. A well covered receiver in the eyes of Tebow is an open receiver in the eyes of Manning. And Tebow struggles to find anyone after the primary receiver while Manning can read the whole field.

I'm starting to be persuaded that Peyton Manning is a better quarterback than Tebow.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 12:28 PM
I think Tebow was victim of a terrible performance by the OL against the Patriots, he did not have a chance behind that OL, but overall he fails to find wide open receivers in the middle of the field. A well covered receiver in the eyes of Tebow is an open receiver in the eyes of Manning. And Tebow struggles to find anyone after the primary receiver while Manning can read the whole field.

True, but compare 16 game Manning to 16 game Tebow and the picture changes somewhat. Manning found lots of receivers who weren't open at all in his first season starting. Which is why he led the league in picks.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 12:29 PM
I'm starting to be persuaded that Peyton Manning is a better quarterback than Tebow.

LOL

Broncos4tw
06-15-2012, 12:33 PM
Tebow will get better, but there is a limit, and I don't think he'll ever be on par with any decent pocket QB. Will his scrambling make up the difference? Maybe to a point, as long as he doesn't get a leg snapped or other injuries. Tebow is a 3 month injury waiting to happen, every game he plays. Keep in mind he was hurt in the Patriot game. Except to see more of that during his career. Defensive players are just too big and too fast now for a QB to take them on head-to-head.

Manning is still a cut above, and still shake my head that anyone (*cough*MacGruder*cough*) would think that Tebow is a better QB. What a joke. Manning is a field general. I've always hated him for it. Now I'll love him for it. He can read defenses instantly, and change a play to best accommodate him. Or throws D's off by not changing the call, but seeming to. He has always been on the low end of the sack #s for good reason.

Kaylore
06-15-2012, 12:43 PM
LOL

Hey Beavis....do you think Tebow is better than Manning?

Beantown Bronco
06-15-2012, 12:45 PM
True, but compare 16 game Manning to 16 game Tebow and the picture changes somewhat. Manning found lots of receivers who weren't open at all in his first season starting. Which is why he led the league in picks.

You have to throw the ball to lead the league in picks. I swear Favre had seasons with more picks than Tebow does attempts.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 12:53 PM
Hey Beavis....do you think Tebow is better than Manning?

I think I've answered that question 10 times. Of course not. And as a passer, he never will be. But there's more to being a QB than passing.

I've also said repeatedly, had they kept Tebow, I'd have been on board. Or if Peyton was 30 instead of 36 (fresh off of a missed season)

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 12:57 PM
You have to throw the ball to lead the league in picks. I swear Favre had seasons with more picks than Tebow does attempts.

True. But the whole gameplan was built to avoid Tebow making mistakes (aka "developing")

But even if you look at INT%, Peyton damn near doubled Tebow's interceptions per throw through 16 games.

cousinal11
06-15-2012, 01:02 PM
I thought Beavis was strictly on a Jets board these days.

http://forums.theganggreen.com/

Beantown Bronco
06-15-2012, 01:13 PM
True. But the whole gameplan was built to avoid Tebow making mistakes (aka "developing")

But even if you look at INT%, Peyton damn near doubled Tebow's interceptions per throw through 16 games.

He damn near doubled his completion percentage too. Tebow's few throws were usually equally uncatchable by both the offense and the defense.

R-Mac
06-15-2012, 01:13 PM
I've been a Tebow supporter even before he was drafted by the Broncos. I thought he could play QB in the NFL, and I still think he can. He is a better QB than Blaine Gabbert and Colin Kaepernick, for example. But it's easy to understand what Elway did when he had a chance to sign Peyton Manning. Between Tebow and Manning, the answer is obvious. Elway was not going to keep Tebow anyway, and now he has a legendary QB leading the team while Osweiler is under construction. Also, I can't support the idea that Tebow saved the season with his performance. Even because the Chargers saved the Broncos' season in week 17, like it or not.

I believe it was unfair to expect much from Tebow after few reps during camp (none with the starters) and today I can see Elway and McCoy never liked Tebow. He definitely was not their kind of player. But I was very disappointed with Tebow's lack of aggressiveness as a passer. He was throwing balls away, aiming at the turf to play safe. His fear of making mistakes made his accuracy look worse than it really is. Tebow hesitated too much with the ball in his hands. The Broncos defense allowed 15 or less points in 6 of Tebow's 11 games. The Broncos beat the Vikings without Adrian Peterson and the Bears without Jay Cutler and Matt Forte. It was not a convincing run to the playoffs.

The difference between Orton and Tebow? Orton was not taking care of the ball when McCoy was unleashing the passing game. Tebow changed the focus of the offense, he was taking care of the ball and McCoy started to coordinate a run-heavy offense. When Tebow also failed to take care of the ball, the Broncos lost. But I did not like to see Tebow playing afraid of turnovers, refusing to give his receivers a chance to make more plays. He should have shown more confidence in the pocket like he did when he had Brandon Lloyd in 2010. You play to score points. Try to make the play. That was my biggest problem with Tebow last season. He did not pull the trigger and his excessive caution often made him look really bad.

Peyton Manning will be a nice upgrade while he lasts (2 years? 3 years?). This story will continue after Manning retires. His successor will be compared to Tebow. Sometimes a Matt Flynn can take the job from a Brian Brohm, but we expect Osweiler to beat Adam Weber and prove he is the right starting QB for the team.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 01:25 PM
He damn near doubled his completion percentage too. Tebow's few throws were usually equally uncatchable by both the offense and the defense.

We can adjust for that too.

Tebow's INT's per completion... .054
1998 Manning's... .086

So Manning threw 60% more INTs per COMPLETION than Tebow.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 01:28 PM
I thought Beavis was strictly on a Jets board these days.

http://forums.theganggreen.com/

I'm big over there. I have my own thread

http://www.theganggreen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23379

cousinal11
06-15-2012, 01:31 PM
^ Haha, other than his rookie season Peyton only threw 20 or more picks once. He only twice in those 12 seasons had a QB rating under 90 and three times had a rating over 100.

Why you continue to bring up the jets backup qb & rb I have no clue.

Beantown Bronco
06-15-2012, 01:31 PM
We can adjust for that too.

Tebow's INT's per completion... .054
1998 Manning's... .086

So Manning threw 60% more INTs per COMPLETION than Tebow.

It's ok. You'll never get it.

Context means everything.

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-15-2012, 01:35 PM
It hilarious when people try to compare rookie seasons with tebows 2nd year. And even more funny they compare him to QBs who have the tools to be great at the QB position. Ignoring tebows lumberjack neanderthal style.

Like somehow he will miraculously succeed like these players they compare to, without the same skill set

Peyton's 2nd year in the league he had an over 90 QB rating. Compare that.

cmhargrove
06-15-2012, 01:39 PM
Okay, just don't do this after the snap:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7nBxHse5s74" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That was so Tebow.

Damn that looks like it hurt! Manning is a tough dude, but I hope we never see him get pretzeled like that again.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 01:53 PM
^ Haha, other than his rookie season Peyton only threw 20 or more picks once. He only twice in those 12 seasons had a QB rating under 90 and three times had a rating over 100.

Why you continue to bring up the jets backup qb & rb I have no clue.

Because comparing Tebow's first season starting to everything EXCEPT Manning's first season starting makes complete and total sense.

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-15-2012, 02:37 PM
Because comparing Tebow's first season starting to everything EXCEPT Manning's first season starting makes complete and total sense.

Comparing Peyton's rookie skill set with Tebows first year starting skill set make complete sense.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-15-2012, 02:39 PM
Because comparing Tebow's first season starting to everything EXCEPT Manning's first season starting makes complete and total sense.

I like watching timmy and all, but are you really comparing him to peyton manning?

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 02:40 PM
Comparing Peyton's rookie skill set with Tebows first year starting skill set make complete sense.

You're right. The opportunity to sit on the bench with a coach who was a few weeks from getting ****canned, and learning behind an obvious all-pro like Kyle Orton, followed by zero offseason and a new coach should've easily propelled Tebow to 2nd-year Peyton Manning status. ^5

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-15-2012, 02:42 PM
You're right. The opportunity to sit on the bench with a coach who was a few weeks from getting ****canned, and learning behind an obvious all-pro like Kyle Orton, followed by zero offseason and a new coach should've easily propelled Tebow to 2nd-year Peyton Manning status. ^5

None of what you just said has anything to do with Tebows lack of pocket QB skills that he hadn't used his entire football life. Why is it everyone else's fault he can't throw accurately on a consistent basis? Why is it ortons fault he is now a punt protector?

peacepipe
06-15-2012, 02:53 PM
You're right. The opportunity to sit on the bench with a coach who was a few weeks from getting ****canned, and learning behind an obvious all-pro like Kyle Orton, followed by zero offseason and a new coach should've easily propelled Tebow to 2nd-year Peyton Manning status. ^5but he did have one when drafted,he had whole yr learning the system,including starting 3 games, & the system was the same under fox. he should've had no problems playing well.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 02:53 PM
I like watching timmy and all, but are you really comparing him to peyton manning?

You might want to read back. The comparisons started before me. I'm just pointing out how stupid it is to compare a green QB to a 10+ year GOAT.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 02:55 PM
but he did have one when drafted,he had whole yr learning the system,including starting 3 games, & the system was the same under fox. he should've had no problems playing well.

Yeah, I'm sure Josh McDaniels had the same kind of QB play and preparation in mind for Tim Tebow as John Fox.

Those guys are almost indistinguishable in their approach to the game. LOL

peacepipe
06-15-2012, 02:56 PM
You might want to read back. The comparisons started before me. I'm just pointing out how stupid it is to compare a green QB to a 10+ year GOAT.as stupid as it is to compare a QBs rookie yr to a 2nd yr QB.

peacepipe
06-15-2012, 03:00 PM
Yeah, I'm sure Josh McDaniels had the same kind of QB play and preparation in mind for Tim Tebow as John Fox.

Those guys are almost indistinguishable in their approach to the game. LOL

finally we agree cause McCoy ran the same offensive system with Fox as he did with McD. Unfortunately for the broncos,with all that time under the same system to learn,tebow still failed miserably.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 03:07 PM
as stupid as it is to compare a QBs rookie yr to a 2nd yr QB.

Yeah, sure bud. And 3rd year Matt Stafford put up better numbers than 4th year (1st starting) Aaron Rodgers.

Therefore Stafford > Rodgers I guess.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 03:12 PM
finally we agree cause McCoy ran the same offensive system with Fox as he did with McD. Unfortunately for the broncos,with all that time under the same system to learn,tebow still failed miserably.

McCoy was a glorified water boy while Josh was around. A role I'm sure he'll excel at again this year.. Josh designed the game plan and called the plays. I suppose you'll tell me next year that Peyton will be "running the same system" as Tebow did this year.

To act like nothing changed from one year to the next is comical. Not to mention... have you noticed all that practicing Peyton's been doing with the first team this spring? Yeah, Tebow never had any of that.

peacepipe
06-15-2012, 03:19 PM
McCoy was a glorified water boy while Josh was around. A role I'm sure he'll excel at again this year.. Josh designed the game plan and called the plays. I suppose you'll tell me next year that Peyton will be "running the same system" as Tebow did this year.

To act like nothing changed from one year to the next is comical. Not to mention... have you noticed all that practicing Peyton's been doing with the first team this spring? Yeah, Tebow never had any of that.and!? system remained the same,gameplanning doesn't change the system. all gameplanning is is what plays within that system are going to be used in any upcomming game based on match ups.

NFLBRONCO
06-15-2012, 03:25 PM
It hilarious when people try to compare rookie seasons with tebows 2nd year. And even more funny they compare him to QBs who have the tools to be great at the QB position. Ignoring tebows lumberjack neanderthal style.

Like somehow he will miraculously succeed like these players they compare to, without the same skill set

Peyton's 2nd year in the league he had an over 90 QB rating. Compare that.

I'm waiting for Tebow can walk on water better then Manning too.

Manning can beat good/great teams when he plays. We would get beat like a drum against any good HEALTHY team 99% of the time with Tebow. Don't get the love affair at all.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 03:36 PM
and!? system remained the same,gameplanning doesn't change the system. all gameplanning is is what plays within that system are going to be used in any upcomming game based on match ups.

Yeah, because at practice, teams never focus on practicing plays based on their game plan. They just run through a list of plays one time like they're reading them out of a dictionary. That way they can commit the entire playbook to muscle memory and no longer have to worry about stupid concepts like timing or progression.

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-15-2012, 03:41 PM
Tebow doesn't worry about stupid timing or progressions. By the way tebow still doesn't have all that time with first units. Not cause of a lock out this year. It's cause he's not good enough. Hes got time with the first unit punt team though.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-15-2012, 03:53 PM
Beavis is a Tebow fan not a Broncos fan. Move on dude. Go cheer for your punt protector somewhere else.

Cito Pelon
06-15-2012, 03:54 PM
Manning has been shut down many times in the playoffs by good defensive teams. EF is aware of that I'm sure, hence why they hopefully insist on maintaining a powerful running O.

Manning has a losing record in the playoffs, and IIRC in those losses his O averaged about 16 PPG.

Remember the days when most everybody around here called Peyton a playoff choker/loser? The guy that threw his OL under the bus. Now all of a sudden he's beyond criticism.

DBroncos4life
06-15-2012, 04:18 PM
Manning has been shut down many times in the playoffs by good defensive teams. EF is aware of that I'm sure, hence why they hopefully insist on maintaining a powerful running O.

Manning has a losing record in the playoffs, and IIRC in those losses his O averaged about 16 PPG.

Remember the days when most everybody around here called Peyton a playoff choker/loser? The guy that threw his OL under the bus. Now all of a sudden he's beyond criticism.

He is beyond being compared to Tebow.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-15-2012, 04:21 PM
Manning has been shut down many times in the playoffs by good defensive teams. EF is aware of that I'm sure, hence why they hopefully insist on maintaining a powerful running O.

Manning has a losing record in the playoffs, and IIRC in those losses his O averaged about 16 PPG.

Remember the days when most everybody around here called Peyton a playoff choker/loser? The guy that threw his OL under the bus. Now all of a sudden he's beyond criticism.
Same could be said of Elway. Point is no QB IS THE WHOLE TEAM. it just helps if he's really good.

BroncoBeavis
06-15-2012, 04:29 PM
Beavis is a Tebow fan not a Broncos fan. Move on dude. Go cheer for your punt protector somewhere else.

I was at the last Steeler game just like I'll be at the next one. Cheering for the Broncos QB regardless. Sorry to disappoint.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-15-2012, 04:33 PM
I was at the last Steeler game just like I'll be at the next one. Cheering for the Broncos QB regardless. Sorry to disappoint.

So who is this punt protector ON AN OTHER TEAM you keep referring to?

C00per
06-15-2012, 07:53 PM
He will make the OL look vastly improved.

errand
06-16-2012, 03:48 PM
Good thing cause all I heard all off season is how bad his neck is and how our OL couldn't block a tissue paper.

Well consider the source.....you know the clowns saying that kind of stuff feel that it was a mistake to sign Manning.

errand
06-16-2012, 03:50 PM
I was at the last Steeler game just like I'll be at the next one. Cheering for the Broncos QB regardless. Sorry to disappoint.

Well of course you were there....you love Tebow. shame you bought season tickets now that you're boy isn't here anymore. Stubhub is your friend man.....

Kaylore
06-16-2012, 04:00 PM
Same could be said of Elway.

:~ohyah!: Trust me. Cito was thinking the same thing. In fact one of the reasons he doesn't like Manning is because Elway brought him in.

errand
06-16-2012, 04:02 PM
Manning has been shut down many times in the playoffs by good defensive teams. EF is aware of that I'm sure, hence why they hopefully insist on maintaining a powerful running O.

Manning has a losing record in the playoffs, and IIRC in those losses his O averaged about 16 PPG.

Remember the days when most everybody around here called Peyton a playoff choker/loser? The guy that threw his OL under the bus. Now all of a sudden he's beyond criticism.

He's not beyond criticism...however it is ludicrous to criticize him for being 9-10 in the playoffs when you really should be wondering how the **** he was able to play 19 playoff games carrying his team for almost a decade and a half. Elway was 7-7 prior to '97-'98 SB winning seasons.....was he too a choker, or was he a major reason those teams even made it to the playoffs to play 14 post season games?

BTW...Peyton is #5 all time in playoff games with 19....the NFL record is 24 held by Brett Favre. Tom Brady has 22, in case you wanna keep track over the next 3-4 years.

to put your "importance of playoff record" stance into perspective...these are the guys who have NEVER lost a playoff game....

Frank Reich 2-0 and Irv Comp, Paul Christman, Gifford Nielsen, Glenn Presnell, and Bill Wade are 1-0....

Now tell us about how never having lost a playoff game means these guys are better than the guy that "choked" 10 out of 19 games?

errand
06-16-2012, 04:04 PM
The guy that threw his OL under the bus. Now all of a sudden he's beyond criticism.

Irsay threw the OL under the Bus....

Jetmeck
06-17-2012, 04:28 PM
And the offensive line is terrible.

And the play calling was bad.

And it was a conspiracy because John Elway was jealous.

Most of this is true...come on open your eyes...........

Tebow and that turd Orton were both sacked a lot....so yeah our O line sucks at pass blocking.....TT holding it too long didn't help.

However TT also made those same guys look soooo much better at run blocking than they were..............

SOOO you guys stick your TT bashing up your ass.............

Jetmeck
06-17-2012, 04:29 PM
He's not beyond criticism...however it is ludicrous to criticize him for being 9-10 in the playoffs when you really should be wondering how the **** he was able to play 19 playoff games carrying his team for almost a decade and a half. Elway was 7-7 prior to '97-'98 SB winning seasons.....was he too a choker, or was he a major reason those teams even made it to the playoffs to play 14 post season games?

BTW...Peyton is #5 all time in playoff games with 19....the NFL record is 24 held by Brett Favre. Tom Brady has 22, in case you wanna keep track over the next 3-4 years.

to put your "importance of playoff record" stance into perspective...these are the guys who have NEVER lost a playoff game....

Frank Reich 2-0 and Irv Comp, Paul Christman, Gifford Nielsen, Glenn Presnell, and Bill Wade are 1-0....

Now tell us about how never having lost a playoff game means these guys are better than the guy that "choked" 10 out of 19 games?


Agreed.. hoping our run game and receivers step up and get Manning over that hump...............

errand
06-17-2012, 07:13 PM
I'm starting to be persuaded that Peyton Manning is a better quarterback than Tebow.

Well that's good....cuz it's an easier sell than trying to tell us Tebow is any good at all passing the ball

errand
06-17-2012, 07:24 PM
It hilarious when people try to compare rookie seasons with tebows 2nd year. And even more funny they compare him to QBs who have the tools to be great at the QB position. Ignoring tebows lumberjack neanderthal style.

Like somehow he will miraculously succeed like these players they compare to, without the same skill set

Peyton's 2nd year in the league he had an over 90 QB rating. Compare that.

And went 13-3 too....and he never came close to looking lost...even when he was a rookie. Didn't he also throw over 20 tds in rookie year?

errand
06-17-2012, 07:28 PM
You're right. The opportunity to sit on the bench with a coach who was a few weeks from getting ****canned, and learning behind an obvious all-pro like Kyle Orton, followed by zero offseason and a new coach should've easily propelled Tebow to 2nd-year Peyton Manning status. ^5

Who did Andy Dalton sit and learn behind? How much OTA time did he get?

I thought Tim was the ultimate self motivated guy?

errand
06-17-2012, 07:33 PM
Yeah, sure bud. And 3rd year Matt Stafford put up better numbers than 4th year (1st starting) Aaron Rodgers.

Therefore Stafford > Rodgers I guess.

Stafford is a smidge below Rodgers right now....his development was slowed by injuries....not inability to get the job done.

Face it....Tebow is the Aquaman of QB's

errand
06-17-2012, 07:39 PM
Not to mention... have you noticed all that practicing Peyton's been doing with the first team this spring? Yeah, Tebow never EARNED any of that.

fixed it for you.....

Tebow isn't a practice QB remember....too bad practice in training camp is how the depth chart gets filled out

BroncoBeavis
06-17-2012, 09:19 PM
Well of course you were there....you love Tebow. shame you bought season tickets now that you're boy isn't here anymore. Stubhub is your friend man.....

Tim Tebow was probably 10 years old when I put my name on the wait list.

The more you talk, the more it becomes apparent you're more a Teblows troll than a Broncos fan. This is the latest among many things you've said that makes it clear you don't know much about the Denver Broncos.

2KBack
06-18-2012, 05:02 AM
Tim Tebow was probably 10 years old when I put my name on the wait list.

The more you talk, the more it becomes apparent you're more a Teblows troll than a Broncos fan. This is the latest among many things you've said that makes it clear you don't know much about the Denver Broncos.

You do realize that one of you started posting here when Griese was QB and the other started posting in Tebow's 2nd year.

Ray Finkle
06-18-2012, 05:07 AM
You do realize that one of you started posting here when Griese was QB and the other started posting in Tebow's 2nd year.


when the debate back then was how Flozell Adams was all Griese needed to be a star....

CEH
06-18-2012, 05:44 AM
McCoy was a glorified water boy while Josh was around. A role I'm sure he'll excel at again this year.. Josh designed the game plan and called the plays. I suppose you'll tell me next year that Peyton will be "running the same system" as Tebow did this year.

To act like nothing changed from one year to the next is comical. Not to mention... have you noticed all that practicing Peyton's been doing with the first team this spring? Yeah, Tebow never had any of that.

Everyone was a glorified waterboy while Josh was around. Dove Valley was toxic from Josh and Brian down to Josh and his coaches to Josh and the players

Wish I could find the sound bite from Bailiey the day McD was fired. It told the whole story of just how bad it was to go to work each day at Dove Valley.

I hate the "let's blame the NFL coaches for Tebow's shortcomings". We are not there in teh film room or at practice but I do know what they did last year before the OAK game was unprecendented and atleast while they we in season tried to work with Tebow not against him

In reality there are not enough hours in the day to work with Tim on mechanics and the basics. The CBA flat out doesn't allow it. Once the season starts it's not about repetitivitve throws but game plan installation and practice for 53 + not for one.

BroncoBeavis
06-18-2012, 05:47 AM
You do realize that one of you started posting here when Griese was QB and the other started posting in Tebow's 2nd year.

KCStud predates Tebow as well. But I know. Join Date Supafans gotta stick together. I get it.

2KBack
06-18-2012, 05:57 AM
KCStud predates Tebow as well. But I know. Join Date Supafans gotta stick together. I get it.

Join date does matter if you claim that a person is only here for Tebow. Or maybe he was really really hoping that he would get the chance to discuss TT a decade ago....when Timmy was a freshmen in HS.

BroncoBeavis
06-18-2012, 05:57 AM
I hate the "let's blame the NFL coaches for Tebow's shortcomings". We are not there in teh film room or at practice but I do know what they did last year before the OAK game was unprecendented and atleast while they we in season tried to work with Tebow not against him.

Nobody's blaming coaches for Tebow's weaknesses. Some just notice that guys like the "genius" offensive coordinator Mike McCoy has a career 1-6 playcaller record without Tim Tebow on the field.

BroncoBeavis
06-18-2012, 06:02 AM
Join date does matter if you claim that a person is only here for Tebow. Or maybe he was really really hoping that he would get the chance to discuss TT a decade ago....when Timmy was a freshmen in HS.

Sorry but if Dontbemessin told me I only got my season tix because of Tim Tebow, I'd have to explain, just like I did to Error that these are the Denver Broncos, and there's a long wait for season tickets in Denver.

Kaylore
06-18-2012, 06:11 AM
Nobody's blaming coaches for Tebow's weaknesses. Some just notice that guys like the "genius" offensive coordinator Mike McCoy has a career 1-6 playcaller record without Tim Tebow on the field.

Mike McCoy is very well respected throughout the league. Maybe not by you and the population of Gainesville, but his name has come up as a head coaching candidate.

BroncoBeavis
06-18-2012, 06:22 AM
Mike McCoy is very well respected throughout the league. Maybe not by you and the population of Gainesville, but his name has come up as a head coaching candidate.

Yeah, and of course we all know that once you're a head coach or head coaching candidate, you become an unquestionable internet forum authority. LOL

Btw, I keep wondering why, if McCoy was such prime head coach grade, we named an RB coach (who was technically under McCoy) the interim head coach when Josh left?

baja
06-18-2012, 07:05 AM
Yeah, and of course we all know that once you're a head coach or head coaching candidate, you become an unquestionable internet forum authority. LOL

Btw, I keep wondering why, if McCoy was such prime head coach grade, we named an RB coach (who was technically under McCoy) the interim head coach when Josh left?

thats a good question.

Play2win
06-18-2012, 10:21 AM
thats a good question.

They needed a Sergeant, not an Officer, to rally the troops.

Kaylore
06-18-2012, 10:28 AM
They needed a Sergeant, not an Officer, to rally the troops.

Exactly. Also it filled the Rooney Rule.

BroncoBeavis
06-18-2012, 12:51 PM
Exactly. Also it filled the Rooney Rule.

Come on. If you were being serious, that would be downright a McGruberian conspiracy theory.

Drunken.Broncoholic
06-18-2012, 01:07 PM
Yeah, and of course we all know that once you're a head coach or head coaching candidate, you become an unquestionable internet forum authority. LOL

Btw, I keep wondering why, if McCoy was such prime head coach grade, we named an RB coach (who was technically under McCoy) the interim head coach when Josh left?

Maybe that respect was gained during the 2011 season when he had to deal with a completion percentage in the 40s. I don't think he ever had a team look at him for HC until AFTER the 2011 season.

errand
06-18-2012, 08:07 PM
when the debate back then was how Flozell Adams was all Griese needed to be a star....

that was the time when TJ said he knew that "Brian Griese when given time was the NFL's most efficient QB....bar none"

Oh, and the ewey gooey girls attacking me over saying Gus Frerotte was a good back-up QB....fun days no doubt...LOL

SoCalBronco
06-18-2012, 08:16 PM
that was the time when TJ said he knew that "Brian Griese when given time was the NFL's most efficient QB....bar none"

Oh, and the ewey gooey girls attacking me over saying Gus Frerotte was a good back-up QB....fun days no doubt...LOL

Griese was an extremely efficient QB. Not only was Shanny enamored with him but Bill Walsh was as well. If he never tore his labrum, he might have been "the guy" for awhile (and there's an outside chance that a completely healthy Brian Griese wins at Baltimore in the wildcard round). He remains the only Denver passer to actually lead the league in passing efficiency for a season (2000).

Fair disclosure: Griese was the first of my 4 Denver player man-crushes on the OM. :)

Seriously though, before he got hurt he was playing at a very high level. Even after he was hurt, he had stretches of very good play (early 2001, first half of 2002). Biggest issue was red zone conversions.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-18-2012, 08:18 PM
Griese was an extremely efficient QB. Not only was Shanny enamored with him but Bill Walsh was as well. If he never tore his labrum, he might have been "the guy" for awhile (and there's an outside chance that a completely healthy Brian Griese wins at Baltimore in the wildcard round). He remains the only Denver passer to actually lead the league in passing efficiency for a season (2000).

REP!!!

errand
06-19-2012, 09:06 AM
You do realize that one of you started posting here when Griese was QB and the other started posting in Tebow's 2nd year.

Not sure but I'm thinking I've been on here since the board's inception.....it didn't exist until 2001, correct?

errand
06-19-2012, 09:07 AM
KCStud predates Tebow as well. But I know. Join Date Supafans gotta stick together. I get it.

When debating Tebow nuthuggers that only joined because he was on our team...then yeah.

errand
06-19-2012, 09:13 AM
Griese was an extremely efficient QB. Not only was Shanny enamored with him but Bill Walsh was as well. If he never tore his labrum, he might have been "the guy" for awhile (and there's an outside chance that a completely healthy Brian Griese wins at Baltimore in the wildcard round). He remains the only Denver passer to actually lead the league in passing efficiency for a season (2000).

Fair disclosure: Griese was the first of my 4 Denver player man-crushes on the OM. :)

Seriously though, before he got hurt he was playing at a very high level. Even after he was hurt, he had stretches of very good play (early 2001, first half of 2002). Biggest issue was red zone conversions.


that's a fair assessment....and i agree...in fact my first argument in the debate was that he probably was still injured, tried to come back earlier than he should've (remember 49ers season ending game where he reinjured shoulder) and lost what adequate arm strength he possessed. That and the red zone failures and he always seemed to fold under pressure, never seeing the LB lurking in the flat....he was more efficient when healthy, but he wasn't a leader. I (and several others) epically battled TJ and the ewey gooey's for a couple seasons over those issues...and it really got heated when Mike signed Jake.....

BroncoInferno
06-19-2012, 09:28 AM
Griese was an extremely efficient QB. Not only was Shanny enamored with him but Bill Walsh was as well.

Bill Walsh was also enamored with Giovanni Carmazzi. Just saying.

Kaylore
06-19-2012, 09:35 AM
Come on. If you were being serious, that would be downright a McGruberian conspiracy theory.

??? The Rooney Rule is real. We interviewed him for the head coaching gig but went another direction...

Kaylore
06-19-2012, 09:36 AM
Bill Walsh was also enamored with Giovanni Carmazzi. Just saying.

And Nate Jackson. Bill Walsh asked about him every time he saw Shanahan. Also, I believe Walsh said Plummer was the next Joe Montana.

BroncoBeavis
06-19-2012, 10:06 AM
??? The Rooney Rule is real. We interviewed him for the head coaching gig but went another direction...

I understand what the Rooney Rule is. But we're not talking about granting the guy an interview. We're talking about hiring a guy who's had a fairly short career as nothing more than a running back coach over a supposedly well-respected offensive coordinator and head-coach candidate A-lister.

When the truth of the matter is nobody would've given Mike McCoy the time of day before the Tebow stretch. He was a nobody. Even his own team didn't take him seriously as a head coaching candidate.

Unless you count the negative, Mike McCoy's count of career accomplishments in running an offense outside of Tebow Time is zero.

errand
06-19-2012, 10:48 AM
I understand what the Rooney Rule is. But we're not talking about granting the guy an interview. We're talking about hiring a guy who's had a fairly short career as nothing more than a running back coach over a supposedly well-respected offensive coordinator and head-coach candidate A-lister.

When the truth of the matter is nobody would've given Mike McCoy the time of day before the Tebow stretch. He was a nobody. Even his own team didn't take him seriously as a head coaching candidate.

Unless you count the negative, Mike McCoy's count of career accomplishments in running an offense outside of Tebow Time is zero.

Yeah, we get it...according to you the entire 2011 Denver Broncos players, coaching staff, and FO owe everything to Tebow.....

You're just a sad little man.....

BroncoBeavis
06-19-2012, 10:55 AM
Yeah, we get it...according to you the entire 2011 Denver Broncos players, coaching staff, and FO owe everything to Tebow.....

You're just a sad little man.....

It takes a special (and by special I mean the short-bus variety) kind to look at a team that's 4-15 over the last couple years without X on the field and conclude that the team's only real problem was X.

R-Mac
06-19-2012, 01:51 PM
The wins came after a change in the philosophy. The McDaniels/McCoy offense with Orton at QB was not afraid of airing it out, and the Broncos were losing close games because of turnovers. They did not unleash Tebow and watched as he tore defenses apart. Actually, it's the opposite. They put a running QB on the field, basically playing with an extra runner, and tried to control the game through the ground. Run the ball, take care of the ball and play good defense.

Tebow was an instrument that allowed the philosophical change on offense. It's absurd to assume he was the only reason why the Broncos started to win games. We must consider the onside kicks, field goals and defensive plays that gave Tebow a chance late in the 4th quarter or even during overtime. Many times, the offensive production was nearly dead for 3 1/2 quarters. But the defense kept some games alive and the offense was at least taking care of the ball, managing field position.

This change on offense was an option exercised by the coaching staff. I can't accept the idea of Tebow as a burden, simply because the Broncos had Orton and Quinn on the bench. If the completion percentage was so painful to watch, they could have put the conventional QB back on the field, but apparently they were pretty happy with their smashmouth strategy and the wins after a 1-4 start.

errand
06-19-2012, 06:20 PM
It takes a special (and by special I mean the short-bus variety) kind to look at a team that's 4-15 over the last couple years without X on the field and conclude that the team's only real problem was X.

I never said Tebow was a problem....I said his passing accurately was. Tebow is a great guy....he just can't throw very well

SoCalBronco
06-19-2012, 06:30 PM
Bill Walsh was also enamored with Giovanni Carmazzi. Just saying.

The great Gio Carmazzi...one of the all time great Flying Dutchmen of Hofstra! He actually went to my college roommate's high school. Walsh was also a big fan in the mid 90s of BYU's John Walsh, who I also liked alot. He didn't do much in the pros. No one is perfect ofcourse...but I do think Griese was a very good QB pre-injuries.

thomas
06-19-2012, 07:18 PM
I haven't been this excited for an upcoming season in a long time!!
Gonna go out on a limb here and say I don't think we'll be seeing to many Play Osweiler billboards this year....:yayaya: