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cmhargrove
05-31-2012, 07:56 AM
Hey guys,
We occasionally discuss personal health topics around here, and I recently tried something that I thought I would share. I have no vested interest here, and i'm not selling anything, just wanted to tell you about something I tried that has made a huge difference for me.

Anyway, I am 42 and have been an avid excerciser for decades. Regular at the gym, judo instructor and competitor for a decade, football coach, Scoutmaster, you name it - i'm very active. Over the past few months I have been feeling extremely low on energy, and slow to recuperate from workouts and injuries. I felt like dog **** and I was really upset about it. I kept working out, but seemed to lose the excitement, motivation, and was just feeling old. Obviously, i'm not ready to slow down so I started scouring the net for info on "loss of endorphins" which is really what I felt. A general malaise, where nothing seemed to be exciting, and I felt constantly run down.

So, I decided I would only look at simple, natural things that might help, and I would only try a "one thing at a time" approach. Well, I think I just got lucky and read the right literature because I have been buzzing for the past several days and I just had to share. Once again, this isn't an infomercial.

The article I read linked low endorphin levels to a lack of some basic amino acids (two forms of Phenylalanine D and L). So, I went down to my local health food store and bought a $17 dollar bottle of DLPA which is a 50 / 50 mix of these two amino acids. Within about three hours, I was buzzing with energy. I took one that morning, one that evening (I have been taking two a day). I plan to taper down to one a day after a week and see how it goes, but I have already worked out five times this week (including extra cardio at a boxing gym), and I haven't felt this way in a decade.

I don't know how this will feel in the next weeks or months, but this will be a part of my health regimen for the rest of the summer. I feel incredible. Anyway, I thought I would open this up for others to discuss any pros and cons of a basic amino supplement, but it seems like the cheapest, most natural "fountain of youth" I could have imagined. I don't want to hype it too much, because it might not work for everyone, but if you have been feeling low on energy, have a general malaise, and lacking in endorphins I highly encourage you to take a trip to your local health food store and try one $17.00 bottle of DLPA.

Hope this helps someone else like it helped me.

Beantown Bronco
05-31-2012, 08:09 AM
The real question is: how does it affect the sex life?

SpringStein
05-31-2012, 08:09 AM
Spammer.

;)

Thanks, I may try it. I'm 60 and have been feeling the need for an energy boost. Totally unmotivated to work out at the gym and have to force myself to go. Think I'll give this a try.

Smiling Assassin27
05-31-2012, 08:11 AM
Two words: Bath Salts.

Wes Mantooth
05-31-2012, 08:14 AM
Two words: Ball Salts.

fixed it for ya.

barryr
05-31-2012, 08:18 AM
Thanks for the info. Once us men get into their 40's, we tend to lose testosterone, which can lead to those run down feelings and no energy. Also the common time when we can become type 2 diabetic, which can also involve the lack of energy type feelings too as well as other problems. So any info. like this is appreciated and keep up the exercise since that helps of course.

Ray Finkle
05-31-2012, 08:18 AM
Hey guys,
We occasionally discuss personal health topics around here, and I recently tried something that I thought I would share. I have no vested interest here, and i'm not selling anything, just wanted to tell you about something I tried that has made a huge difference for me.

Anyway, I am 42 and have been an avid excerciser for decades. Regular at the gym, judo instructor and competitor for a decade, football coach, Scoutmaster, you name it - i'm very active. Over the past few months I have been feeling extremely low on energy, and slow to recuperate from workouts and injuries. I felt like dog **** and I was really upset about it. I kept working out, but seemed to lose the excitement, motivation, and was just feeling old. Obviously, i'm not ready to slow down so I started scouring the net for info on "loss of endorphins" which is really what I felt. A general malaise, where nothing seemed to be exciting, and I felt constantly run down.

So, I decided I would only look at simple, natural things that might help, and I would only try a "one thing at a time" approach. Well, I think I just got lucky and read the right literature because I have been buzzing for the past several days and I just had to share. Once again, this isn't an infomercial.

The article I read linked low endorphin levels to a lack of some basic amino acids (two forms of Phenylalanine D and L). So, I went down to my local health food store and bought a $17 dollar bottle of DLPA which is a 50 / 50 mix of these two amino acids. Within about three hours, I was buzzing with energy. I took one that morning, one that evening (I have been taking two a day). I plan to taper down to one a day after a week and see how it goes, but I have already worked out five times this week (including extra cardio at a boxing gym), and I haven't felt this way in a decade.

I don't know how this will feel in the next weeks or months, but this will be a part of my health regimen for the rest of the summer. I feel incredible. Anyway, I thought I would open this up for others to discuss any pros and cons of a basic amino supplement, but it seems like the cheapest, most natural "fountain of youth" I could have imagined. I don't want to hype it too much, because it might not work for everyone, but if you have been feeling low on energy, have a general malaise, and lacking in endorphins I highly encourage you to take a trip to your local health food store and try one $17.00 bottle of DLPA.

Hope this helps someone else like it helped me.


Have you had trouble pooping? I'd check the basement..... :D

Beantown Bronco
05-31-2012, 08:21 AM
fixed it for ya.

take it another step

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tM9rnqdAx00" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

baja
05-31-2012, 08:21 AM
Two words: Bath Salts.


please elaborate.

gyldenlove
05-31-2012, 08:23 AM
So much awesome in one thread.

Ray Finkle
05-31-2012, 08:25 AM
please elaborate.

It's like the crack version of meth....

lolcopter
05-31-2012, 08:26 AM
please elaborate.

Search the news for zombies

BroncsRule
05-31-2012, 08:28 AM
I remember taking Phenylalanine L in college to help stimulate brain function and focus. Might have been a placebo effect, but myself & a couple of friends swore by the stuff.

baja
05-31-2012, 08:31 AM
RE OP;

There are precious few magic bullets out there when it comes to recovering optimum health. Hopefully you found one that works for you.

Jason in LA
05-31-2012, 08:36 AM
Well I'm going to assume this thread is for real. I'm 35, workout a lot and I have a very good diet. My problem is that I don't recover as fast. Mostly my legs. I do a lot of running, and I like to do more sprinting than distance running. Over the past year my legs feel beat up after a sprint workout. I've been doing distance for the past 6 weeks and even with that my legs still feel sore a day later. I'm going to do distance for about another month or so and then go back to sprinting.

Beantown Bronco
05-31-2012, 08:42 AM
I only run when chased. Saves my legs a lot of wear and tear.

BroncsRule
05-31-2012, 08:49 AM
I only run when chased. Saves my legs a lot of wear and tear.

There you go: "We don't have to run faster than the zombie, we just have to run faster than Beantown"

cmhargrove
05-31-2012, 09:01 AM
Have you had trouble pooping? I'd check the basement..... :D

Are you being serious? I eat plenty of small meals throughout the day, so poop is no problem. Plenty of good food and fiber. I'm like clockwork, my wife is jealous.

Are you offering additional advice, or just wanted to know about bowel habits?

cmhargrove
05-31-2012, 09:05 AM
Well I'm going to assume this thread is for real. I'm 35, workout a lot and I have a very good diet. My problem is that I don't recover as fast. Mostly my legs. I do a lot of running, and I like to do more sprinting than distance running. Over the past year my legs feel beat up after a sprint workout. I've been doing distance for the past 6 weeks and even with that my legs still feel sore a day later. I'm going to do distance for about another month or so and then go back to sprinting.

Jason,
I couldn't be more serious. I wouldn't have stuck my neck out and written this thread if I wasn't feeling such an immediate and significant turnaround. Once again, i'm not a doctor, but I did research this for about a week before I ever decided to try it. I figured a simple, natural, inexpensive approach was worth trying. It has just been this week for me, but the effects have been significant, and I find myself "strongly desiring" to workout mornings and evenings again. It feels great, and I hope you will let me know if you try it.

Ray Finkle
05-31-2012, 09:11 AM
Are you being serious? I eat plenty of small meals throughout the day, so poop is no problem. Plenty of good food and fiber. I'm like clockwork, my wife is jealous.

Are you offering additional advice, or just wanted to know about bowel habits?

check the ambient thread.....

Ray Finkle
05-31-2012, 09:12 AM
Well I'm going to assume this thread is for real. I'm 35, workout a lot and I have a very good diet. My problem is that I don't recover as fast. Mostly my legs. I do a lot of running, and I like to do more sprinting than distance running. Over the past year my legs feel beat up after a sprint workout. I've been doing distance for the past 6 weeks and even with that my legs still feel sore a day later. I'm going to do distance for about another month or so and then go back to sprinting.

have your tried running in compression shorts? I've worn them the last few years for lacrosse games and I bounce back a lot quicker. My calves stopped hurting as much when I switched to Nike Free's....

BroncoBeavis
05-31-2012, 09:14 AM
Regular at the gym, judo instructor and competitor for a decade, football coach, Scoutmaster, you name it - i'm very active. Over the past few months I have been feeling extremely low on energy

Seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

You should probably up your Mountain Dew and Lays intake. Maybe start a stricter Xbox 360 regimen. Tell your wife often that she makes a better door than a window. :)

Meck77
05-31-2012, 09:14 AM
Well I'm going to assume this thread is for real. I'm 35, workout a lot and I have a very good diet. My problem is that I don't recover as fast. Mostly my legs. I do a lot of running, and I like to do more sprinting than distance running. Over the past year my legs feel beat up after a sprint workout. I've been doing distance for the past 6 weeks and even with that my legs still feel sore a day later. I'm going to do distance for about another month or so and then go back to sprinting.

You might consider Bikram Yoga. 26 postures, 1.5 hrs, in a heated room. If you want to challenge not only your body but your mind this is an amazing way to do it. I've seen all sorts of athletes come into the rooms only to be humbled very quickly. The series itself is standard. Studios and teachers very greatly but that is the beauty of it. Wherever you travel you can pretty much find a studio. I rocked the 9:15 class in Kapaa Kauai the other day. Jason you would have loved it dude. Some of the most beautiful women I'd ever seen were in there. I'm not talking about gals that look good in a dress. I'm talking beautiful women that would blow you away with their strength, flexibility, balance, smiles and positive energy.

Check in out Jason. I think it's right up your alley. I was skeptical myself but 2 years later I have the energy I did 15 years ago and just happened to meet my wife via the practice. :)

Right woman > Any energy pill you can take.

DBroncos4life
05-31-2012, 09:16 AM
Two words: Bath Salts.

Super coke...

Shananahan
05-31-2012, 09:16 AM
please elaborate.
Just see this guy:

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4070/5127229520_fe815afb6e_z.jpg

He'll hook you up.

gyldenlove
05-31-2012, 09:16 AM
There you go: "We don't have to run faster than the zombie, we just have to run faster than Beantown"

**** running, you just have to trip the fattest person and you can walk out of there - like a boss.

lolcopter
05-31-2012, 09:22 AM
Are you being serious? I eat plenty of small meals throughout the day, so poop is no problem. Plenty of good food and fiber. I'm like clockwork, my wife is jealous.

Are you offering additional advice, or just wanted to know about bowel habits?

tmi

Captain 'Dre
05-31-2012, 09:23 AM
Are you being serious? I eat plenty of small meals throughout the day, so poop is no problem. Plenty of good food and fiber. I'm like clockwork, my wife is jealous.

Are you offering additional advice, or just wanted to know about bowel habits?

I think it was an ambien reference. Hence, "check the basement".

barryr
05-31-2012, 09:29 AM
Oh, don't forget about Maca, an herb found in the Peruvian Andes. You can use either the powder or pill form and it really does help too. Apparently story goes when the tribes there saw their populations dwindling, the men would take the maca plant and well, the populations would grow.

Bronco Rob
05-31-2012, 09:36 AM
http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/21007610709664/new-video-released-in-cannibal-attack/

Jason in LA
05-31-2012, 09:48 AM
Jason,
I couldn't be more serious. I wouldn't have stuck my neck out and written this thread if I wasn't feeling such an immediate and significant turnaround. Once again, i'm not a doctor, but I did research this for about a week before I ever decided to try it. I figured a simple, natural, inexpensive approach was worth trying. It has just been this week for me, but the effects have been significant, and I find myself "strongly desiring" to workout mornings and evenings again. It feels great, and I hope you will let me know if you try it.

I'll look into it. Have you noticed any affect on muscle soreness?

cmhargrove
05-31-2012, 09:52 AM
Right woman > Any energy pill you can take.

Great advice Meck,
I have also done yoga in the past and think it is a great, challenging, and rewarding workout. Just for clarification, I also have a great wife and really good kids, this was just something physically new for me. I certainly don't advocate "energy pills," red bull, excessive caffeine, or the like - that's not what DLPA is. It is an essential (and naturally occurring) amino acid that is linked to the body's natural processes involved with endorphins and seratonin (as well as other things). Nothing weird or gimmicky. To each his own, i'm glad the yoga works for you.

Jason in LA
05-31-2012, 09:58 AM
have your tried running in compression shorts? I've worn them the last few years for lacrosse games and I bounce back a lot quicker. My calves stopped hurting as much when I switched to Nike Free's....


I'm going to give that a try. I've been having a hamstring problem. Upper portion of the muscle, right below the glute. A sports doctor told me to try compression shorts, so I went and bought a pair and my son took them right away. Any type of athletic gear that comes in the house he's on it. Dude is constantly wanting to go to the sporting goods store. So I'll have to go and get another pair.

cmhargrove
05-31-2012, 10:02 AM
I'll look into it. Have you noticed any affect on muscle soreness?

Jason,
I really don't want to overhype this, so I can just tell you my experience.
I spent a good time waterskiing + yard work on Monday.
Did Cardio + lifting Tuesday AM, Did a full workout at a local boxing gym Tuesday PM.
Cardio Wed morning, hike Wed evening.
Cardio + lifting this morning, have another hike planned tonight.
Planning to do cardio + lifting tomorrow and Saturday.

I feel awesome, and "perfectly sore." I mean that I am recuperating quickly, but my muscles have feel very good post-workout. What was taking me (personally) two days of recovery, is now just one. Increased endorphins do increase energy, but also have a natural analgesic effect - this is what I am feeling.

Once again, I really don't want to overhype because I understand these things can affect everyone differently. I have been "buzzing" with energy all week, so I thought I would share. I say, try it for a week and let me know if it works for you. I'm just really honestly interested to see if this works for other people. As I said, I am trying one AM and one PM this week, and next week I will shift to one AM and see if I feel the same.

gyldenlove
05-31-2012, 10:03 AM
I'm going to give that a try. I've been having a hamstring problem. Upper portion of the muscle, right below the glute. A sports doctor told me to try compression shorts, so I went and bought a pair and my son took them right away. Any type of athletic gear that comes in the house he's on it. Dude is constantly wanting to go to the sporting goods store. So I'll have to go and get another pair.

Sounds like you need to go to the cane store to teach that kid some manners :P

Jason in LA
05-31-2012, 10:03 AM
You might consider Bikram Yoga. 26 postures, 1.5 hrs, in a heated room. If you want to challenge not only your body but your mind this is an amazing way to do it. I've seen all sorts of athletes come into the rooms only to be humbled very quickly. The series itself is standard. Studios and teachers very greatly but that is the beauty of it. Wherever you travel you can pretty much find a studio. I rocked the 9:15 class in Kapaa Kauai the other day. Jason you would have loved it dude. Some of the most beautiful women I'd ever seen were in there. I'm not talking about gals that look good in a dress. I'm talking beautiful women that would blow you away with their strength, flexibility, balance, smiles and positive energy.

Check in out Jason. I think it's right up your alley. I was skeptical myself but 2 years later I have the energy I did 15 years ago and just happened to meet my wife via the practice. :)

Right woman > Any energy pill you can take.


I tried P90X's yoga a couple times and never got through 20 minutes of the 90 minute session. It was really hard. It was harder than their workouts. But I've been telling myself to give it another shot, and maybe do it once a week. Taking a class may be the thing to get me to actually do it. Working out with hot chicks>doing weird poses by myself in my bedroom. ;D

Chris
05-31-2012, 10:04 AM
Cutting out gluten really makes a big difference in my workouts. I might consider taking these.

broncobum6162
05-31-2012, 10:13 AM
I've been suffering from Low T for years and have tried the 5 G's, Tribulis, and the 90 dollar a month stuff from GNC w/ little to no success. I have since put myself on GNC Mega Men performance & Vitality Vitamin pac. It's a 7 tablet pac that has supplements and promote hearth, prostate and sexual health. It has been working good so far and I have really noticed an increase in my energy also. I'm still gonna take your advice and see how that works out for me too.

55CrushEm
05-31-2012, 10:15 AM
Search the news for zombies

Face......it's what's for dinner.

Meck77
05-31-2012, 10:18 AM
Great advice Meck,
I have also done yoga in the past and think it is a great, challenging, and rewarding workout. Just for clarification, I also have a great wife and really good kids, this was just something physically new for me. I certainly don't advocate "energy pills," red bull, excessive caffeine, or the like - that's not what DLPA is. It is an essential (and naturally occurring) amino acid that is linked to the body's natural processes involved with endorphins and seratonin (as well as other things). Nothing weird or gimmicky. To each his own, i'm glad the yoga works for you.

I wasn't suggesting you didn't! Standard yoga is not Bikram yoga. Not even close and not nearly the challenge. I've seen guys lose 50+lbs in a matter of months.

I'm not doubting your DLPA either. If it works for you that's great man. Always glad to see threads like this. :sunshine:

BroncoBeavis
05-31-2012, 10:18 AM
I've been suffering from Low T for years and have tried the 5 G's, Tribulis, and the 90 dollar a month stuff from GNC w/ little to no success. I have since put myself on GNC Mega Men performance & Vitality Vitamin pac. It's a 7 tablet pac that has supplements and promote hearth, prostate and sexual health. It has been working good so far and I have really noticed an increase in my energy also. I'm still gonna take your advice and see how that works out for me too.

If there's ever been a "What Would Spider Do?" moment on the OM, this is it. I'm actually starting to kinda miss the guy.

baja
05-31-2012, 10:25 AM
Cutting out gluten really makes a big difference in my workouts. I might consider taking these.

This is a huge piece and helps with soreness too. Gluten causes systemic inflammation in a high percentage of people. Almost everyone is gluten intolerant to some degree.

broncobum6162
05-31-2012, 10:25 AM
If there's ever been a "What Would Spider Do?" moment on the OM, this is it. I'm actually starting to kinda miss the guy.

?????????

Ray Finkle
05-31-2012, 10:28 AM
This is a huge piece and helps with soreness too. Gluten causes systemic inflammation in a high percentage of people. Almost everyone is gluten intolerant to some degree.

yes but unless you have Celiac Disease, your body needs gluten to some degree.

baja
05-31-2012, 10:31 AM
yes but unless you have Celiac Disease, your body needs gluten to some degree.

I never heard that. Are you sure about that?

cmhargrove
05-31-2012, 10:34 AM
I wasn't suggesting you didn't! Standard yoga is not Bikram yoga. Not even close and not nearly the challenge. I've seen guys lose 50+lbs in a matter of months.

I'm not doubting your DLPA either. If it works for you that's great man. Always glad to see threads like this. :sunshine:

I'm with you man, I did Bikram a couple times with a friend. I'm used to the heat and water loss component, so I did fine there. I am actually very flexible also, and I stretch well every workout. That being said, there was no possible way I was going to hold those poses the entire time. I felt like a goofy kid (like you mentioned). I feel like in order to get very good at it, I would have to commit for a couple months and really get some better instruction. It is certainly another thing I would like to get into in the future when I clear some things off the schedule.

I kind of felt the same way the other day at the boxing gym. I have a pretty decent martial arts background, but trying to work a speed bag made me feel like a dufus. I spent 10 minutes after class just trying to get it right with one hand. Some things just take practice.

Thanks for the good advice and info about the yoga.

BroncoBeavis
05-31-2012, 10:41 AM
?????????

Nothing serious man. I would just love to hear what Spider does to keep his Justice-Dealing Trucker Engine firing on all cylinders.

I bet he's got some kind of self-help Trucker book of some kind that unlocks the secrets of how he keeps those sasquatchean testosterone levels and honed tire-iron martial arts skills so high.

BroncoBeavis
05-31-2012, 10:44 AM
In reality I should probably be taking the thread more seriously since I'm totally feeling the same pinch at this point in my life.

broncobum6162
05-31-2012, 10:45 AM
Nothing serious man. I would just love to hear what Spider does to keep his Justice-Dealing Trucker Engine firing on all cylinders.

I bet he's got some kind of self-help Trucker book of some kind that unlocks the secrets of how he keeps those sasquatchean testosterone levels and honed tire-iron martial arts skills so high.

Ahhhh.......Ok. Just didn't know where it was going since I never paid him much mind. What happened to him, he get banned along w TGN?

BroncoBeavis
05-31-2012, 10:56 AM
Ahhhh.......Ok. Just didn't know where it was going since I never paid him much mind. What happened to him, he get banned along w TGN?

I don't think he's banned. But I don't think TGN is banned either. Unless the banished are still allowed to post rep.

He's hit me 6 times in the last couple days now. I'm kinda starting to like it. Does that make me gay?

Ray Finkle
05-31-2012, 11:02 AM
I never heard that. Are you sure about that?

http://news.menshealth.com/the-russell-crowe-diet/2011/07/20/

I miss wrote that your body "needs" gluten but it really does not harm it.

baja
05-31-2012, 11:11 AM
http://news.menshealth.com/the-russell-crowe-diet/2011/07/20/

I miss wrote that your body "needs" gluten but it really does not harm it.

a few minutes after ingesting gluten your white blood cell count goes way up. White blood cells are your first line of defense against invaders (substances not recognized by the immune system as good for the body) the body works hard to eliminate gluten as it does with all cooked foods but gluten raises the WBC greatly.

hades
05-31-2012, 11:29 AM
If you don't want to do it with pills or diet, buy a Corvette!

cmhargrove
05-31-2012, 11:52 AM
If you don't want to do it with pills or diet, buy a Corvette!

Anyone here remember the movie "Crazy People" about the guys from the insane asylum that start making ad slogans?

"Jaguar- sleek and smart. For men who would like handjobs from beautiful women they hardly know!"

McDman
05-31-2012, 12:31 PM
Jason,
I couldn't be more serious. I wouldn't have stuck my neck out and written this thread if I wasn't feeling such an immediate and significant turnaround. Once again, i'm not a doctor, but I did research this for about a week before I ever decided to try it. I figured a simple, natural, inexpensive approach was worth trying. It has just been this week for me, but the effects have been significant, and I find myself "strongly desiring" to workout mornings and evenings again. It feels great, and I hope you will let me know if you try it.

Does taking one at night keep you up?

hades
05-31-2012, 12:33 PM
Does taking one at night keep you up?

Wait, are you talking up like Viagra, or awake?

cmhargrove, man, I think I saw that movie a looooong time ago!

McDman
05-31-2012, 12:36 PM
I tried P90X's yoga a couple times and never got through 20 minutes of the 90 minute session. It was really hard. It was harder than their workouts. But I've been telling myself to give it another shot, and maybe do it once a week. Taking a class may be the thing to get me to actually do it. Working out with hot chicks>doing weird poses by myself in my bedroom. ;D

P90X yoga is brutal. I've played sports my whole life and have never sweat that hard after an hour before. I had a stream of sweat poruing off of my face.

hades
05-31-2012, 12:38 PM
P90X yoga is brutal. I've played sports my whole life and have never sweat that hard after an hour before. I had a stream of sweat poruing off of my face.

That entire Beach Body series can be pretty intense. Iheard the Insane or whatever it's called is a killer.

I just ordered the KettleWorx DVD set, arrives tomorrow I think.

chickennob2
05-31-2012, 01:02 PM
I have no expertise whatsoever in human biology, but speaking as someone with a decent breadth-first sort of background in biology, I have to say that this makes complete sense.

There are 22 "standard" amino acids. These amino acids are literally the building blocks of proteins. Every single protein in your body is made up of a chain (or chains) of amino acids. In fact, that is exactly what your genes code for. DNA molecules, those long strings of A, T, G, and C, code directly for proteins. DNA base pairs are read in groups of 3 (called a "codon"). Each of the 64 possible codons (AAA, AAC, AAG, AAT, etc. to 64) codes for something (http://www.daimi.au.dk/~besen/PiB/exercises/codontable.jpg). One of them (ATG) signals both methionine and is the "start codon". There are several "stop codons". For a given gene, every three base pairs between the start and stop codons are translated directly into an amino acid. This chain of amino acids, with a little post-translational modification, is the protein. And don't just think of proteins as hair and muscle fiber. Enzymes are proteins. Enzymes have at the very least a regulatory role in every single chemical reaction that takes place in your body.

Ok, so we now know amino acids are important. How do we get amino acids? Well, some of them can be produced in our bodies, and some of them must come from our diet. Phenylalanine, the amino acid mentioned in this post, is one of those that must come from your diet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid#In_human_nutrition). What happens if you don't get enough of one of these "essential" amino acids? Well, that varies quite a bit. But the end result is that there are certain proteins that require them that cannot be created at the rate that your body wants to create them. A general lack of energy is a very reasonable outcome of such an amino acid deficiency.

TL DR
So what does this mean? Basically, this isn't snake oil. Phenylalanine is an essential amino acid that is required for a functioning human body. But it also isn't a magic bullet. For most people, taking a phenylalanine supplement won't have any effect. But to someone whose diet is deficient in phenylalanine, it could make a huge difference. Know your diet. Know your dietary deficiencies. But for the vast majority of us too lazy to really do that, you could try the much easier method of "buy this $17 bottle of pills and see how it makes me feel."

DivineLegion
05-31-2012, 01:31 PM
Biochem is fun!

Phenylalanine is a precursor to a lot of energy and stimulation related molecules. There are a lot of aa's that can do wonders for degrading bodies. Cystine for example can help lower your risk for cancer, it's a sulfuric molecule that tends to absorb a lot of free radicals in your cells. Some more complex molecules like glutathione (which contains cystine) could be the keys to prolonged life.

cmhargrove
05-31-2012, 01:55 PM
Does taking one at night keep you up?

I took them at breakfast and dinner. I generally eat dinner around 6:30-7:00 and go to bed around 11:00. So, i konked out as usual and woke up (at 6:00 am) ready to work out. No sleep problems this week.

cmhargrove
05-31-2012, 02:00 PM
I have no expertise whatsoever in human biology, but speaking as someone with a decent breadth-first sort of background in biology, I have to say that this makes complete sense.

There are 22 "standard" amino acids. These amino acids are literally the building blocks of proteins. Every single protein in your body is made up of a chain (or chains) of amino acids. In fact, that is exactly what your genes code for. DNA molecules, those long strings of A, T, G, and C, code directly for proteins. DNA base pairs are read in groups of 3 (called a "codon"). Each of the 64 possible codons (AAA, AAC, AAG, AAT, etc. to 64) codes for something (http://www.daimi.au.dk/~besen/PiB/exercises/codontable.jpg). One of them (ATG) signals both methionine and is the "start codon". There are several "stop codons". For a given gene, every three base pairs between the start and stop codons are translated directly into an amino acid. This chain of amino acids, with a little post-translational modification, is the protein. And don't just think of proteins as hair and muscle fiber. Enzymes are proteins. Enzymes have at the very least a regulatory role in every single chemical reaction that takes place in your body.

Ok, so we now know amino acids are important. How do we get amino acids? Well, some of them can be produced in our bodies, and some of them must come from our diet. Phenylalanine, the amino acid mentioned in this post, is one of those that must come from your diet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid#In_human_nutrition). What happens if you don't get enough of one of these "essential" amino acids? Well, that varies quite a bit. But the end result is that there are certain proteins that require them that cannot be created at the rate that your body wants to create them. A general lack of energy is a very reasonable outcome of such an amino acid deficiency.

TL DR
So what does this mean? Basically, this isn't snake oil. Phenylalanine is an essential amino acid that is required for a functioning human body. But it also isn't a magic bullet. For most people, taking a phenylalanine supplement won't have any effect. But to someone whose diet is deficient in phenylalanine, it could make a huge difference. Know your diet. Know your dietary deficiencies. But for the vast majority of us too lazy to really do that, you could try the much easier method of "buy this $17 bottle of pills and see how it makes me feel."

Very interesting post. I generally eat a good amount of protein each day, but for some reason I must have been phenylalanine deficient. My next research might be "what other factors could cause phenylalanine deficiency?" I don't have any allergies or digestive issues to speak of, so i'll try to see what other causes might be. As of now, i'm pretty happy to have gotten a significant result so easily.

Thanks again for the chem lesson.

broncobum6162
05-31-2012, 02:02 PM
He's hit me 6 times in the last couple days now. I'm kinda starting to like it. Does that make me gay?

That totally depends on your definition of "hitting" or where he's hitting you at!
I "hit" my girlfriend quite a few times this past weekend and she loved it...:strong::yayaya:^5

Beantown Bronco
05-31-2012, 02:05 PM
I "hit" my girlfriend quite a few times this past weekend and she loved it...:strong::yayaya:^5

Is your name Chris Brown or Matthew Fox?

broncobum6162
05-31-2012, 02:11 PM
Is your name Chris Brown or Matthew Fox?

Really? For Real? And you never heard of it used in this context..."hey buddy...look at that hot chick over there!" "yea, hey she is hot...I'd hit it, would you?" "yea, definitely, I'd hit that.." :curtsey:

Shananahan
05-31-2012, 02:19 PM
Really. For real.

Chris
05-31-2012, 03:10 PM
How do I get this in my diet without taking a supplement?

barryr
05-31-2012, 07:33 PM
I don't think he's banned. But I don't think TGN is banned either. Unless the banished are still allowed to post rep.

He's hit me 6 times in the last couple days now. I'm kinda starting to like it. Does that make me gay?

No, but I think he is showing his mental issues, which there are a few around here who think and act just like him.

hades
06-01-2012, 09:28 PM
Holy moly, just finished the "Resistance" Kettleworx DVD. I am wiped the Eff out! A lot different than the P90 stuff I was doing before. Core DVD Monday's, Cardio Wed. and Resistance Fridays is the program I am following. There are 10 DVD's in the set, so there is a good variety of different things to try, and key in on certain area's.

Taco John
06-01-2012, 10:15 PM
I wonder how this will mix with all that viagra I bought...

Archer81
06-01-2012, 10:21 PM
Health thread. Cool.

I'm down 65 lbs in the last 5 months or so. That is an energy booster. No soda/snacks/processed sugar, smaller portions at dinner, nothing after 8pm. It's done wonders.

Started running a while back too. And I can honestly say I hate it with a burning passion...but if it means not dying at 40, I suppose I can keep it up.

:Broncos:

Meck77
06-01-2012, 10:45 PM
I wonder how this will mix with all that viagra I bought...

What are you talking about? You already got two mini tacos. Are you shooting for a half dozen or something?

BroncoBuff
06-02-2012, 01:04 AM
I'm feeling the same pinch at this point in my life.

It's much worse than just a pinch ... you are in critical condition.

I tried giving you rep to boost your energy, but you don't even have a rep link. Does that mean you're gay?

Taco John
06-02-2012, 02:45 AM
What are you talking about? You already got two mini tacos. Are you shooting for a half dozen or something?

lol

No, I'm just making a joke referencing the viagra spam attack we were under recently...

Two is enough for us.

TonyR
06-02-2012, 08:02 AM
How do I get this in my diet without taking a supplement?

Phenylalanine is found naturally in the breast milk of mammals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylalanine

So there you go...

Hamrob
06-02-2012, 08:56 AM
I'm going to give it a try. I'm 43 and work out each day. But with a hectic work life (Executive, working in the evenings on my MBA), I don't have near the energy I used to have.

I just bought a couple bottles off of ebay (2 x 60 capsules for $18 w/shipping).

We'll see how it goes! Thanks for the recommedation...

Hulamau
06-02-2012, 11:26 AM
yes but unless you have Celiac Disease, your body needs gluten to some degree.

Sorry Ray .. no it doesn't .. gliaden/gluten is not an essential nutrient by any stretch of the imagination!

Its the single most inflammatory protein overall in the common diet. With casein coming in second. Most people can 'tolerate' it seemingly for decades before obvious problems arise and many go a whole lifetime without overt GI symptoms developing from the gradual onset of mal-absorption-based nutrient deficiencies that pile up over the long haul from your own immune systems reaction to what it sees as a foreign invader in the gluten protein.

When the gluten protein gets lodged in the intestinal vili .. (the tiny and numerous hair-like protrusions the line the inner lining of the intestines and increases the effective surface area for improved nutrient absorption) .. then the anti-bodies released in response to this invader blast the gluten protein and at the same time take out some of these vili.

Over a long time, during this process that is greatly magnified in those with overt genetic predisposition toward celiac disease and/or who have full blown celiac already, the original Shag carpet-like intestinal vili 'forest' gets mowed down into more of a flat Berber carpet like lining of the intestine with DRAMATIC reduction in nutritional absorption.

This process is going on in everyone who eats gluten to one degree or another depending on their genetic sensitivity to it at any given time.

Also, even for those who do have a tendency to expression of the 'gluten genes' HLA-DQ2- and HLA-DQ8 on chromosome 6p21, the vast majority of those go on eating gluten unaware for much of their lives until one or both of those genes are 'switched on' by any number of processes, the leading trigger being consuming too much accumulated gluten over decades or a life time. Also certain toxicity exposures, accumulated stress, certain illnesses etc can suddenly turn on these previously dormant genes and the trouble really starts. Only thereafter do they then begin to manifest the clinical signs and symptoms of gluten intolerance.

Thus, a large number of people who think they are handling gluten fine now are simply setting the stage for a gluten-derived crash on several levels down the road, when and if, their genetic pre-dispostion switches on.

Finally, the vast majority of symptoms related to gluten intolerance are not GI related... They can range from skin disorders, heart, brain and nervous system diseases and even mental/emotional disorders secondary to gradual long term core nutrient and mineral mal-absorption and low grade inflammation. The more chronic GI symptoms (significant bloating, indigestion, cramps, gas, nausea, constipation and/or diarrhea etc... tend to be later stage manifestions of serious intestinal vili destruction.

In any event Ray, there is no reason at all to consume 'gluten' itself for one's good health and in fact exactly the opposite it true. You can get all of the necessary vitamins, proteins, fats, anti-oxidants and minerals fro a gluten-free diet without much trouble at all with just a little more effort and education.

McDman
06-02-2012, 12:52 PM
Health thread. Cool.

I'm down 65 lbs in the last 5 months or so. That is an energy booster. No soda/snacks/processed sugar, smaller portions at dinner, nothing after 8pm. It's done wonders.

Started running a while back too. And I can honestly say I hate it with a burning passion...but if it means not dying at 40, I suppose I can keep it up.

:Broncos:

Do you feel a ton better? I weigh about 225 so I'm not giant but I would like to get to about 190.

Archer81
06-02-2012, 02:06 PM
Do you feel a ton better? I weigh about 225 so I'm not giant but I would like to get to about 190.


I do. My joints dont bother me like they used to. I dont have the general aches carrying alot of weight used to give me. I want to get down to 180-185. 60 pounds more to go. At 5'9, 180 should be good for me.


:Broncos:

Kaylore
06-02-2012, 03:14 PM
I think 90% of people that claim they have "gluten allergy" are full of crap.

Requiem
06-02-2012, 03:44 PM
Shedding the pounds will make you guys feel like you are on top of the world. I'm roughly 5'10 or so and the most I've weighed in the past five years was 220 pounds (but I didn't have any control of that, kidney disease causes such craziness) -- I felt good at 180-185 which was a decent weight for me, but I am around 165-170 now and I feel the best I have in years. My health condition often made me feel fatigued, low on energy and lethargic at times. I'm glad that I've done a good job of addressing it over the past few years, and I realized that diet (along with cutting other habits) is one of the biggest changes I needed to make. So, I'm not sure what has all been discussed in this thread, but I'll go the route of diet:

I take a Vitamin D, E and B12 supplement a day (vitamin deficiency runs in my family) and it gives me good morning pep and energy to last me through the day.

For breakfast, I have a banana for potassium along with 12 grain toast with peanut butter to help me with my protein. I down this all with juice, (not from concentrate) in an eight ounce glass.

For lunch, I usually pack myself a fresh fruit and a small sandwich, maybe some healthy snack crackers or something that is low in sodium, because my body just doesn't tolerate it.

At supper, I have two cups of vegetables (usually, Mediterranean style with broccoli) with a 6 to 8 ounce portion of oven baked fish (Halibut, Tilapia, Salmon, Pollock) and maybe a baked potato for carbohydrates. If I am not having fish, I am having the same size of a grilled chicken breast with no additional salt added, just seasonings (Mrs. Dash or something) and other stuff. I also like asparagus too and find that a little of that with butter, wrapped in some tinfoil and put over a grill does the trick. It also makes your pee smell funny. :)

I drink at least 64 ounces of water a day and do not go for highly processed foods. I don't eat fast food anymore and avoid most red meats. Maybe once or twice a week, but that is about it. If I need a snack, I will have a piece of fruit or something healthy. No more going to the kitchen cabinet and taking Doritos and putting cheese on them and eating baked beans before I go to bed. That is terrible.


When you are overweight, it is actually easier for you to lose weight in the process. Getting a good 20-45 minutes of exercise in a day (even if it is a walk, slight jog or bike ride) will definitely help a lot. Keep an MP3 player with you and have some music to enjoy when you are out and about.

I used to think lifestyle changes were hard until I found out how easy it was. In as much time as most of us spend on the Mane in a day, we could be doing something to alter our physical self and improve our well-being. Those are just some tips and stories from me and I wish you all the best in achieving good health. I know that ya older guys have slower metabolic rates, so maybe if you do research on ways to increase that -- it would help too.

Where is TSIGUY? He knows about that stuff. Good luck and best of health to you all.

Requiem
06-02-2012, 03:46 PM
And I have never heard of this DLPA stuff, maybe I will give it a shot, but I'm not really low on energy anymore.

Hulamau
06-02-2012, 08:15 PM
I think 90% of people that claim they have "gluten allergy" are full of crap.

Well Kaylore, for one thing it isn't an 'allergy' so in that strict definition of the term you'd be correct. In addition, its true too that a lot of people do indeed claim an allergy to gluten because they think it's in vogue or whatever to claim so, even if they have no evidence of symptomatic gluten intolerance that is either backed by reliable testing or biopsy, or for whom going on a strict gluten free diet doesn't improve said symptoms at all...

But you'd be mistaken indeed to assume hardly anyone is effected by what is a far more common issue than it appears to you at this time. On the positive side, It does look promising that a real cure or at least effective treatment is not too far away that for many will allow eating gluten again without the bad news repercussions...

Kaylore
06-02-2012, 08:52 PM
Well Kelore, for one thing it isn't an 'allergy' so in that strict definition of the term you'd be correct. In addition, its true too that a lot of people do indeed claim an allergy to gluten because they think it's in vogue or whatever to claim so, even if they have no evidence of symptomatic gluten intolerance that is either backed by reliable testing or biopsy, or for whom going on a strict gluten free diet doesn't improve said symptoms at all...

But you'd be mistaken indeed to assume hardly anyone is effected by what is a far more common issue than it appears to you at this time. On the positive side, It does look promising that a real cure or at least effective treatment is not too far away that for many will allow eating gluten again without the bad news repercussions...
There was (and might still be) this show on the Food Network called Food Science. It's hosted by the cook who was on queer eye for the straight guy. They did a segment on MSG. They split the room in half. They served visually the exact same meal to both sides of the room, except one half had MSG in their food. At the end of the meal they announced they were doing a study on MSG and asked if anyone felt they had consumed some and were feeling the effects. A few people raised their hands including one very outspoken woman who insisted her throat was closing up and had a big headache. She was in the group that didn't have any MSG in the food. MSG is just a naturally occurring salt derived from an amino acid that adds a savory taste to food. However since it is an acronym, people assume it's some kind of chemical poison the Chinese snuck in and pretend to have sensitivity when they don't.

My understanding is celiac disease is obviously very real and to that small group of persons afflicted by it, gluten is poisonous (to less than 1% of the population.) Most people that claim they have "Gluten Allergy" don't. The few that aren't just trying to be into the latest health craze and are having some kind of reaction probably have gluten intolerance or gluten sensitivity. That in itself is debatable since there is no real test if you have it other than asking if you feel better when you stop eating it, which in many cases is probably the placebo effect.

Here's an interesting article (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/07/throwing_out_the_wheat.html) pointing out how overblown the "anti-gluten" craze is. It also mentions that avoiding some foods can actually increase sensitivity (the way Atkins dieters developed sensitivity to starchy foods) and that part of the people feeling better is they are avoiding bad foods since cutting gluten coincidentally also kills a crap load of junk food from your diet.

I am not convinced it's the problem everyone is saying it is.

Ray Finkle
06-02-2012, 08:59 PM
There was (and might still be) this show on the Food Network called Food Science. It's hosted by the cook who was on queer eye for the straight guy. They did a segment on MSG. They split the room in half. They served visually the exact same meal to both sides of the room, except one half had MSG in their food. At the end of the meal they announced they were doing a study on MSG and asked if anyone felt they had consumed some and were feeling the effects. A few people raised their hands including one very outspoken woman who insisted her throat was closing up and had a big headache. She was in the group that didn't have any MSG in the food. MSG is just a naturally occurring salt derived from an amino acid that adds a savory taste to food. However since it is an acronym, people assume it's some kind of chemical poison the Chinese snuck in and pretend to have sensitivity when they don't.

My understanding is celiac disease is obviously very real and to that small group of persons afflicted by it, gluten is poisonous (to less than 1% of the population.) Most people that claim they have "Gluten Allergy" don't. The few that aren't just trying to be into the latest health craze and are having some kind of reaction probably have gluten intolerance or gluten sensitivity. That in itself is debatable since there is no real test if you have it other than asking if you feel better when you stop eating it, which in many cases is probably the placebo effect.

Here's an interesting article (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/07/throwing_out_the_wheat.html) pointing out how overblown the "anti-gluten" craze is. It also mentions that avoiding some foods can actually increase sensitivity (the way Atkins dieters developed sensitivity to starchy foods) and that part of the people feeling better is they are avoiding bad foods since cutting gluten coincidentally also kills a crap load of junk food from your diet.

I am not convinced it's the problem everyone is saying it is.

Hul, you make some valid points but I agree with Kahn here. I have family members that have the disease and some hat are doctors because it. I stand by my post.

jutang
06-02-2012, 09:12 PM
I love hearing patients say they have a gluten allergy and have eliminated half of the gluten from their diet and feel wonderful! Kinda lets me know their drug allergies are usually bogus.

Orange_Beard
06-03-2012, 12:12 PM
Fun read, thanks everyone for sharing your experiences.
Getting old sucks. I am turning 47 this year.

I spent the day rock climbing yesterday( about 7 hours car to car of non-stop climbing and hiking/scrambling) with my good friend who is 27. Climbed a 4 pitch 5.8, really hard approach and walk off, sure I am tired today, but man I can keep up.

Factors for me in keeping up my energy are not eating sh*tty food/drinking sh*tty beverages.
Find a way to exercise that you love and do it. I live on the beach in SoCal and I Body surf/swim 4 or 5 times a week. If I am not in the water I run on the beach. I love it. Spend money of things that make you move. Don't buy a massive TV, instead get a really good bike.
I sit in front of a computer all day. I swear I am more tired from a day staring at the computer them I am from a day climbing. When I feel run down and just want to sleep, I try to go for a walk. From expending little energy I find I get more energy to really work out.

Just a few thoughts.

Bacchus
06-03-2012, 02:56 PM
Hey guys,
We occasionally discuss personal health topics around here, and I recently tried something that I thought I would share. I have no vested interest here, and i'm not selling anything, just wanted to tell you about something I tried that has made a huge difference for me.

Anyway, I am 42 and have been an avid excerciser for decades. Regular at the gym, judo instructor and competitor for a decade, football coach, Scoutmaster, you name it - i'm very active. Over the past few months I have been feeling extremely low on energy, and slow to recuperate from workouts and injuries. I felt like dog **** and I was really upset about it. I kept working out, but seemed to lose the excitement, motivation, and was just feeling old. Obviously, i'm not ready to slow down so I started scouring the net for info on "loss of endorphins" which is really what I felt. A general malaise, where nothing seemed to be exciting, and I felt constantly run down.

So, I decided I would only look at simple, natural things that might help, and I would only try a "one thing at a time" approach. Well, I think I just got lucky and read the right literature because I have been buzzing for the past several days and I just had to share. Once again, this isn't an infomercial.

The article I read linked low endorphin levels to a lack of some basic amino acids (two forms of Phenylalanine D and L). So, I went down to my local health food store and bought a $17 dollar bottle of DLPA which is a 50 / 50 mix of these two amino acids. Within about three hours, I was buzzing with energy. I took one that morning, one that evening (I have been taking two a day). I plan to taper down to one a day after a week and see how it goes, but I have already worked out five times this week (including extra cardio at a boxing gym), and I haven't felt this way in a decade.

I don't know how this will feel in the next weeks or months, but this will be a part of my health regimen for the rest of the summer. I feel incredible. Anyway, I thought I would open this up for others to discuss any pros and cons of a basic amino supplement, but it seems like the cheapest, most natural "fountain of youth" I could have imagined. I don't want to hype it too much, because it might not work for everyone, but if you have been feeling low on energy, have a general malaise, and lacking in endorphins I highly encourage you to take a trip to your local health food store and try one $17.00 bottle of DLPA.

Hope this helps someone else like it helped me.

How many MGs are they. I found 120 per bottle 500 mgs for $6.99

Hulamau
06-03-2012, 03:06 PM
There was (and might still be) this show on the Food Network called Food Science. It's hosted by the cook who was on queer eye for the straight guy. They did a segment on MSG. They split the room in half. They served visually the exact same meal to both sides of the room, except one half had MSG in their food. At the end of the meal they announced they were doing a study on MSG and asked if anyone felt they had consumed some and were feeling the effects. A few people raised their hands including one very outspoken woman who insisted her throat was closing up and had a big headache. She was in the group that didn't have any MSG in the food. MSG is just a naturally occurring salt derived from an amino acid that adds a savory taste to food. However since it is an acronym, people assume it's some kind of chemical poison the Chinese snuck in and pretend to have sensitivity when they don't.

My understanding is celiac disease is obviously very real and to that small group of persons afflicted by it, gluten is poisonous (to less than 1% of the population.) Most people that claim they have "Gluten Allergy" don't. The few that aren't just trying to be into the latest health craze and are having some kind of reaction probably have gluten intolerance or gluten sensitivity. That in itself is debatable since there is no real test if you have it other than asking if you feel better when you stop eating it, which in many cases is probably the placebo effect.

Here's an interesting article (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/07/throwing_out_the_wheat.html) pointing out how overblown the "anti-gluten" craze is. It also mentions that avoiding some foods can actually increase sensitivity (the way Atkins dieters developed sensitivity to starchy foods) and that part of the people feeling better is they are avoiding bad foods since cutting gluten coincidentally also kills a crap load of junk food from your diet.

I am not convinced it's the problem everyone is saying it is.

Afternoon Kaylore,

The issue here is one of extremes, with your take (and that of the biased and superficial lay article filled at least half a dozen factual errors from Slate Magazine) on the far end of one extreme in claiming that only 1% of the population is effected by gluten intolerance!

This is such a long ago discredited guesstimate from the early 1990s relying only on outdated technology of yesteryear such as a simple IGg and IGa blood testing and intestinal villi biopsy histology to determine if it is safe or not for one to continue eating gluten, when both of those test are ONLY positive AFTER major destruction of said villi has already taken place and the horse has long ago left the barn!

Using that approach, as supported by the sole neanderthal doc the author was able to scrounge up to support his biased and misinformed view, is not much different from a (so-called) cancer specialist telling a long term smoker who comes to him with a chronic hacking cough and shortness of breath that technically it's fine for him to continue smoking because at least this latest xray or CT doesn't show any obvious lung cancer!!

Such an old school archaic view that is, thankfully dwindling and harder and harder to find, even among many long time 'set-in-their-ways' gastroenterologists in the face of so much new research and new cutting-edge testing technologies, borders on mal-practice relative to the progress in this field over the last ten years.

Isn't it interesting .. and revealing of his own bias .. that the author made no attempt to solicit comments from any of the many recognized experts in this field taking a broader view of the problem like Dr. Kenneth Fine MD, Dr James Braly MD or Dr Thomas O'Bryan to name three off the top of my head , not to mention any of the thousands of other GI, immunologist, neurologist, oncologist and even cardiologist who have long ago recognized that the scope of this problem is far larger than the ridiculous '1% of the population claims' from 20 years ago based solely on those who at that time had already been diagnosed with full blown celiac disease diagnosed only after major GI damage had already been done!

Had he interviewed at least one of these other acknowledged experts taking the other side of the argument his article would have at least appeared more balanced and honest. The author probably was sincere in his efforts.. sincerely mis-informed as well.

Part of the disconnect here is due to the limitations of old definitions and the fact that only 1 out of every 8 symptoms and clinical signs of gluten intolerance show up as Gut manifestations.

Old line GI docs being focused only on their own specialty (a common problem with our overly-specialize medical landscape where the right hand has little idea what the left hand is doing) thus typically only look for what are usually late stage GI symptoms in relation to gluten effects. And thus, they miss the much larger forest due to looking too closely at the wrong trees to recognize how much earlier they could intervene to help patients avoid ever getting to full blown celiac disease and long before the horse has left the barn.

One of the biggest misstatements, if not an outright lie, in that article is the claim that 'there are no tests that reveal if one is likely gluten intolerant other than a positive villious atrophy biopsy test ...this is simply NOT TRUE at all and would be vigorously denounced by the renowned physicians noted above and indeed the majority of intelligent up-to-date gastroenterologists practicing today.

Enterolabs from Dallas Texas offers a simple and highly accurate and reliable combined stool test with genetic screening for HLA-DQ2 and DQ8 gluten gene marker activity that can reveal long before full blown celiac disease level of destruction of the villi has occurred just who is likely to go on to develop full blown celiac if they continue eating gluten.

Also, Cyrex labs in Phoenix offers several cutting edge sophisticated blood screening profiles that are also highly effective at revealing those who are already showing strong antibody reactions to eating gluten and again long before either the much older IGa IGg blood test or the intestinal biopsy would ever show a positive coorelation.

AS in most issues medical, it is FAR far easier to keep the horse in the barn and prevent the major damage from occurring with early enough intervention than it is to deal with decades of damage after which your 'Shag carpet of villi lining your intestines has been mowed down to a flat berber carpet and with it goes a large part of your nutritional absorption.

In any event, it is true too that those evangelists at the other extreme of this issue also go way over the top in claiming gluten to be the arch enemy of mankind and insist that everyone should and must shun gluten at all times. This is just as untrue as the ostriches with their heads in the sand who 'hope' they are right in dismissing this whole area as only a bunch of kooks who are trying to deny them their daily bread :-).

The real truth lies in between these two extremes. Modern estimates, now that we can more reliably discover and test for early stage intolerance to gluten as well as genetic testing to reveal those who should definitely avoid gluten to avoid playing Russian Roulette with their health show a conservative number around 11% for those with testable and symptomatic gluten intolerance with up to 30% at risk of becoming symptomatic with continued heavy and unrestricted use of gluten in the diet.

The good news is that this leaves 70% or so of the population for whom this will never be much of an issue. However 30% or even 11% is one hell of a lot bigger problem than the ludicrous 1% quoted from the dark ages of early celiac research.

The author of this Slate magazine article also clearly revealed the motive for his bias with his emphasis on the hassle factor and 'annoyance' that he obviously feels for those around him who are gluten free can bring to his life and those of others around them. This is no doubt true and I well understand that and empathize with his frustrations and knee-jerk reaction that led to his approach to this article.

Such an emotional reaction is common at first .. at least until the effected person and their families realize that the adjustments aren't nearly as draconian and difficult as they first imagined. Particularly now when there are so many more readily available gluten-free alternatives.

Finally, the weak caveat arguments the author tried to use as rationales for a possible danger from going gluten free are a real reach and hold very little water. The first that going GF might actually increase ones enzyme sensitivity for digesting fibers makes little sense here as anyone who does even a little due diligence in researching a healthy GF diet will include copious amounts of fiber-bearing veggies, fruits, seeds, and other grains that simply lack the wheat, barley, rye, spelt and some oats that contain the non-nutritionally necessary gluten protein.

This isn't nearly as much of a denial diet as it seems. Yes, it sucks not to be able to eat some fresh whole wheat or rye bread, but there are increasingly more options of actually decent tasting multi-grain breads without the offending gluten. Same with pizzas, cakes and cookies galore.

In fact its very easy to even continue eating a junk food GF diet as well . if one so chooses ... with so many sugar-laden GF bakery goods on the market now.

Nevertheless, I do agree it is annoying and over the top for anyone to preach about going GF to others who don't need too. But by the same token it is a bigger issue than the average 'Slate Magazine' reader might assume at first blush and no doubt fueled by that innate knee jerk resistance to even wanting to investigate the issue when it might threaten the things we love to eat. I definitely have been there and gone through all that myself when I remained similarly misinformed.

Alas, it caught up to me ... reluctantly ... at a time when I sounded like and debated the issue exactly as Kaylore does now :-) ... and I had no choice but to learn the more nuanced and complex reality of this issue and get over the resistance since I have the bad luck of both HLA-DQ 2 and 8 genes being active, along with active antibodies to gluten and verified fat and nutrient mal-absorption when still eating gluten. It runs in the family too which is a very common occurance. It's also highly prevalent in those with Scotch-Irish and northern European descent.

Kaylore, if you are interesting in reading some highly-reliable and respected cutting-edge up-to-date evidence-based research and clinical experience from an ocean of skilled physicians in this area, Id be happy to PM you some links? But my sense is that most on this board wont be so inclined, and I imagine we've likely exhausted the interest meter here as it is so PM me if you'd like to see some other interesting sources of information to help balance out your view on this. No doubt you will still be happily eating bread afterwards, as you should, if you have no symptoms or issues highlighted in the research.

But for anyone who either has a family history of celiac disease and/or has had any of the long list of symptoms clearly associated with gluten intolerance that did not respond to prior treatments given under the guise of another diagnosis, then for such folks it makes perfect common sense to at least take advantage of these more reliable modern tests, such as those noted above, to find out for sure whether or not you are rolling dice eating your favorite bagel each morning.

If not, you can celebrate by chowing down on gluten to your hearts content!

Bacchus
06-03-2012, 03:07 PM
I thought about taking pills and exercising more. I decided against it and instead I think I am just waiting to die.

Hulamau
06-03-2012, 03:31 PM
Hul, you make some valid points but I agree with Kahn here. I have family members that have the disease and some hat are doctors because it. I stand by my post.

Howdy Ray,

My only point, and the main motive for my first post on this topic to begin with, was to address your comment that all those who are not gluten intolerant still have an essential nutritional need for gluten in the diet. This is not the case and perhaps you were inferring that there are lots of good other nutrients like B vitamins, fiber some other proteins and minerals etc in whole wheat, rye and barley breads and I would whole heartedly agree with that is that is what you were getting at??

However, gluten/gliadin protein itself is truly non-essential to the human diet. A fact that was confirmed by the author and his one physician 'expert' he cites as well even in the otherwise overtly-biased article from Slate Magazine that Kaylore posted a link too.

Like most good reads that appeal to the lay reader and are at least well written, if not thoroughly researched and properly balanced, that Slate article had just enough good and valid points to lend the air of credence even to his more over the top erroneous statements and suppositions.

A lot of what the author said sounds superficially appealing at first blush and its understandable how it would appeal to the viewpoint of anyone who has at most no more than a passing exposure to this rather complex issue.

cmhargrove
06-04-2012, 08:47 AM
Hello All,
I appreciate the perspectives given in this thread. It is always nice to hear what other people are doing for their health and well being. I just wanted to give a brief update and answer a question or two.

Someone asked about the dosage I had tried - the bottle I got has 750mg pills. I got them at a local "health food" store and the manufacturer is "KAL."

I am heading into week two and still feeling really good. I seem to feel a more significant energy buzz in the morning (rather than the evening), but when I do workout in the evenings, I find much more of an energy reserve than I had over the previous few months. Recovery times are still quicker and if I work out 2x per day, there is still plenty in the tank for the evening. I have also switched from a breakfast of Oatmeal+protein powder (which I have eaten for over a year) back to eggs (natually rich in phenylalanine).

I think that if I am going to be really analytical about this, part of the effect I am feeling is also a mental lift. As I said with the original post, I had hit a mental wall as well as a physical one. I was still very productive, but felt mentally flat and generally unexcited about each day's activities. Being a general optimist and enthusiastic person, this was a big deal for me. As one of the other posters mentioned before, Phenylalanine has also been linked to cognitive and mood improvements, and I am feeling this as well. I am back to my own general state of enthusiasm, excitement, and general mental productivity.

Once again, I am kind of writing this as a personal journal, so take it at face value. As others have mentioned, this could possibly be affecting me since I must have been depleted of these AA's. However, if others do try this, I would be interested to know how it affects you.

To others continuing to give their suggestions - they are greatly appreciated. The weight loss and activity suggestions can go a long way to help/motivate others around here. Thanks for your input.

Off to work!

TheReverend
06-04-2012, 09:06 AM
I think 90% of people that claim they have _________ are full of crap.

Fixed

DenverBroncosJM
06-04-2012, 09:28 AM
Fixed


I agree my mother in law...she is "allergic" to everything. "Oh I cant have coffee I am allergic to caffeine, oh I'll have a Coke though"

Damn its aggravating.

Hulamau
06-04-2012, 10:04 AM
I agree my mother in law...she is "allergic" to everything. "Oh I cant have coffee I am allergic to caffeine, oh I'll have a Coke though"

Damn its aggravating.

Indeed it is irritating those kind of far too ready and frequent claims many people rely on who tend towards hypochondria and need a label for every twitch or hickup they feel and so claim 'allergies' to the entire world.

There are a relatively unfortunate few who do have extreme environmental sensitivity to certain chemicals and some foods, but this isnt the same thing as a true 'allergy' in any event .. just as genuine gluten intolerance isn't at all and 'allergy' either, as so often claimed by people who have no idea what they are speaking of and looking for an easy out and justification for whatever.

People that self-diagnose from a website or an Oprah episode usually get it wrong in a big way ...

broncosteven
06-04-2012, 10:30 AM
Hello All,
I appreciate the perspectives given in this thread. It is always nice to hear what other people are doing for their health and well being. I just wanted to give a brief update and answer a question or two.

Someone asked about the dosage I had tried - the bottle I got has 750mg pills. I got them at a local "health food" store and the manufacturer is "KAL."

I am heading into week two and still feeling really good. I seem to feel a more significant energy buzz in the morning (rather than the evening), but when I do workout in the evenings, I find much more of an energy reserve than I had over the previous few months. Recovery times are still quicker and if I work out 2x per day, there is still plenty in the tank for the evening. I have also switched from a breakfast of Oatmeal+protein powder (which I have eaten for over a year) back to eggs (natually rich in phenylalanine).

I think that if I am going to be really analytical about this, part of the effect I am feeling is also a mental lift. As I said with the original post, I had hit a mental wall as well as a physical one. I was still very productive, but felt mentally flat and generally unexcited about each day's activities. Being a general optimist and enthusiastic person, this was a big deal for me. As one of the other posters mentioned before, Phenylalanine has also been linked to cognitive and mood improvements, and I am feeling this as well. I am back to my own general state of enthusiasm, excitement, and general mental productivity.

Once again, I am kind of writing this as a personal journal, so take it at face value. As others have mentioned, this could possibly be affecting me since I must have been depleted of these AA's. However, if others do try this, I would be interested to know how it affects you.

To others continuing to give their suggestions - they are greatly appreciated. The weight loss and activity suggestions can go a long way to help/motivate others around here. Thanks for your input.

Off to work!


I wonder how this would help with pain management/reduction.

With my nerve damage I am wiped out in the AM, I can't get to sleep most nights due to the pain and when I finally get to sleep around 2am I can't wake up until 10, which is about 8 hours. This is with sleep aids and going to bed around 9-10pm every night.

I am also doing PT and have been adding weight to my exercises which wipes me out even more the next day. I did my work out yesterday and I am totally drained today.

If I drive more than an hour or walk a lot or have to take my kids to something I tire easily and pay for it the next day.

I can deal with the muscle pain and numbness but laying around comatose with summer coming on is not an option.

Sounds like I already talked myself into trying this out.

Chris
06-04-2012, 11:40 AM
As someone that's been gluten free for almost two years now, I can say that removing gluten was a significant turning point in my quality of life. In my early to mid 20s I'd been feeling increasingly ****, despite exercising on average four times a week. Vigorous exercise was the only thing that made me feel better and it usually lasted until the first or second meal, at which point it was a fairly precipitous drop to the point where I'd feel so **** I couldn't concentrate, was highly irritable and lethargic (I felt like I was trying to exorcise a demon every time I worked out). I didn't have the bloating that is the most common sign of intolerance. I had also been under unimaginable stress from work for years without a break (started working very young in a rough industry). The problem for me initially was remembering what it was like to not feel ****... I really just thought I was cursed.

Somehow it came up in conversation with my girlfriend's mother who is in very poor health because she wasn't diagnosed with celiac disease until her 40s. I asked my doctor about it and, despite sustained ridicule from friends (something to do with the rigidity of human beings when faced with new concepts), I went gluten free for six weeks. I had a blood test. I was "borderline" for celiac so I had a biopsy done which came back negative. At this point I jumped for joy and went back and started eating gluten again. I immediately felt like **** again and it was at this point that I really understood the difference being gluten free made for me. I've rarely eaten gluten since and when I do it can **** me up for days (until the next workout).

My favourite foods are pasta and lots of soy sauce (with added wheat) laden asian dishes. I've been able to find gluten free alternatives to most things but I was never a massive sandwich / bread guy. Yes, I eat way too many chipotle burrito bowls when I get lazy.

The only thing I can't get that I miss is whiskey... beer is a distant second and the gluten free ones taste like crap. I get a ton of **** for all this still, though my brother knows he will get a bone bruise if he tries to pull a joke.

So my predispositions are I was under a very unusual amount of stress for years, I ate a ton of gluten historically (seriously would finish entire baguettes as a snack when I was a kid) and genetically I'm from a region in Spain that supposedly has an usually high rate of gluten intolerance. I do think there are a lot of soccer moms out there who are following this like some trend, but I'll be gluten free for the rest of my life (or until they come out with a cure all pill, which I think is possible). In any event, gluten isn't great for anybody.

I feel infinitely better, physically and mentally. Willpower runs in the family but for a lot of people I can see how being in that state would dissuade them from ever exercising. The saddest thing for me is that someone could go their entire lives without knowing this is an issue for them. It has so many knock on effects for your overall health IF it's an issue for you. To each his own.

baja
06-04-2012, 12:12 PM
As someone that's been gluten free for almost two years now, I can say that removing gluten was a significant turning point in my quality of life. In my early to mid 20s I'd been feeling increasingly ****, despite exercising on average four times a week. Vigorous exercise was the only thing that made me feel better and it usually lasted until the first or second meal, at which point it was a fairly precipitous drop to the point where I'd feel so **** I couldn't concentrate, was highly irritable and lethargic (I felt like I was trying to exorcise a demon every time I worked out). I didn't have the bloating that is the most common sign of intolerance. I had also been under unimaginable stress from work for years without a break (started working very young in a rough industry). The problem for me initially was remembering what it was like to not feel ****... I really just thought I was cursed.

Somehow it came up in conversation with my girlfriend's mother who is in very poor health because she wasn't diagnosed with celiac disease until her 40s. I asked my doctor about it and, despite sustained ridicule from friends (something to do with the rigidity of human beings when faced with new concepts), I went gluten free for six weeks. I had a blood test. I was "borderline" for celiac so I had a biopsy done which came back negative. At this point I jumped for joy and went back and started eating gluten again. I immediately felt like **** again and it was at this point that I really understood the difference being gluten free made for me. I've rarely eaten gluten since and when I do it can **** me up for days (until the next workout).

My favourite foods are pasta and lots of soy sauce (with added wheat) laden asian dishes. I've been able to find gluten free alternatives to most things but I was never a massive sandwich / bread guy. Yes, I eat way too many chipotle burrito bowls when I get lazy.

The only thing I can't get that I miss is whiskey... beer is a distant second and the gluten free ones taste like crap. I get a ton of **** for all this still, though my brother knows he will get a bone bruise if he tries to pull a joke.

So my predispositions are I was under a very unusual amount of stress for years, I ate a ton of gluten historically (seriously would finish entire baguettes as a snack when I was a kid) and genetically I'm from a region in Spain that supposedly has an usually high rate of gluten intolerance. I do think there are a lot of soccer moms out there who are following this like some trend, but I'll be gluten free for the rest of my life (or until they come out with a cure all pill, which I think is possible). In any event, gluten isn't great for anybody.

I feel infinitely better, physically and mentally. Willpower runs in the family but for a lot of people I can see how being in that state would dissuade them from ever exercising. The saddest thing for me is that someone could go their entire lives without knowing this is an issue for them. It has so many knock on effects for your overall health IF it's an issue for you. To each his own.

This is such an important piece. I would say most people eating a standard American diet (S. A. D.) do not know what optimum health is. They have been feeling subpar for so long they have forgotten what it feels like to be fully healthy. Some people have never known what real health feels like. If you were not breast fed and raised on the bottle you are likely in this category.

Drink nothing but fresh made green juices for three days and see what real health feels like. Oh and stop searching for the magic bullet cure all it rarely happens.

DenverBroncosJM
06-04-2012, 12:19 PM
I wonder how this would help with pain management/reduction.

With my nerve damage I am wiped out in the AM, I can't get to sleep most nights due to the pain and when I finally get to sleep around 2am I can't wake up until 10, which is about 8 hours. This is with sleep aids and going to bed around 9-10pm every night.

I am also doing PT and have been adding weight to my exercises which wipes me out even more the next day. I did my work out yesterday and I am totally drained today.

If I drive more than an hour or walk a lot or have to take my kids to something I tire easily and pay for it the next day.

I can deal with the muscle pain and numbness but laying around comatose with summer coming on is not an option.

Sounds like I already talked myself into trying this out.

Do a search for it, on the Wiki page it says it does help Pain Management (granted it is Wiki)

Beantown Bronco
06-04-2012, 12:19 PM
Drink nothing but fresh made green juices for three days and see what real health feels like.

I do this whenever I go out for Chinese Food. :)

alkemical
06-04-2012, 01:14 PM
There was (and might still be) this show on the Food Network called Food Science. It's hosted by the cook who was on queer eye for the straight guy. They did a segment on MSG. They split the room in half. They served visually the exact same meal to both sides of the room, except one half had MSG in their food. At the end of the meal they announced they were doing a study on MSG and asked if anyone felt they had consumed some and were feeling the effects. A few people raised their hands including one very outspoken woman who insisted her throat was closing up and had a big headache. She was in the group that didn't have any MSG in the food. MSG is just a naturally occurring salt derived from an amino acid that adds a savory taste to food. However since it is an acronym, people assume it's some kind of chemical poison the Chinese snuck in and pretend to have sensitivity when they don't.

My understanding is celiac disease is obviously very real and to that small group of persons afflicted by it, gluten is poisonous (to less than 1% of the population.) Most people that claim they have "Gluten Allergy" don't. The few that aren't just trying to be into the latest health craze and are having some kind of reaction probably have gluten intolerance or gluten sensitivity. That in itself is debatable since there is no real test if you have it other than asking if you feel better when you stop eating it, which in many cases is probably the placebo effect.

Here's an interesting article (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/07/throwing_out_the_wheat.html) pointing out how overblown the "anti-gluten" craze is. It also mentions that avoiding some foods can actually increase sensitivity (the way Atkins dieters developed sensitivity to starchy foods) and that part of the people feeling better is they are avoiding bad foods since cutting gluten coincidentally also kills a crap load of junk food from your diet.

I am not convinced it's the problem everyone is saying it is.

Maybe it's not "gluten", but candida yeast.

Beantown Bronco
06-04-2012, 01:32 PM
Maybe it's not "gluten", but candida yeast.

Sounds like you're saying he had a yeast infection.

Tombstone RJ
06-04-2012, 01:47 PM
Hey guys,
We occasionally discuss personal health topics around here, and I recently tried something that I thought I would share. I have no vested interest here, and i'm not selling anything, just wanted to tell you about something I tried that has made a huge difference for me.

Anyway, I am 42 and have been an avid excerciser for decades. Regular at the gym, judo instructor and competitor for a decade, football coach, Scoutmaster, you name it - i'm very active. Over the past few months I have been feeling extremely low on energy, and slow to recuperate from workouts and injuries. I felt like dog **** and I was really upset about it. I kept working out, but seemed to lose the excitement, motivation, and was just feeling old. Obviously, i'm not ready to slow down so I started scouring the net for info on "loss of endorphins" which is really what I felt. A general malaise, where nothing seemed to be exciting, and I felt constantly run down.

So, I decided I would only look at simple, natural things that might help, and I would only try a "one thing at a time" approach. Well, I think I just got lucky and read the right literature because I have been buzzing for the past several days and I just had to share. Once again, this isn't an infomercial.

The article I read linked low endorphin levels to a lack of some basic amino acids (two forms of Phenylalanine D and L). So, I went down to my local health food store and bought a $17 dollar bottle of DLPA which is a 50 / 50 mix of these two amino acids. Within about three hours, I was buzzing with energy. I took one that morning, one that evening (I have been taking two a day). I plan to taper down to one a day after a week and see how it goes, but I have already worked out five times this week (including extra cardio at a boxing gym), and I haven't felt this way in a decade.

I don't know how this will feel in the next weeks or months, but this will be a part of my health regimen for the rest of the summer. I feel incredible. Anyway, I thought I would open this up for others to discuss any pros and cons of a basic amino supplement, but it seems like the cheapest, most natural "fountain of youth" I could have imagined. I don't want to hype it too much, because it might not work for everyone, but if you have been feeling low on energy, have a general malaise, and lacking in endorphins I highly encourage you to take a trip to your local health food store and try one $17.00 bottle of DLPA.

Hope this helps someone else like it helped me.

thanks for the info! I'm exercising but yah, my energy level is not real good. 'Course, I do have the energy to post crap on the Omane so I've got that going for me...

IHaveALight
06-04-2012, 02:40 PM
There was (and might still be) this show on the Food Network called Food Science. It's hosted by the cook who was on queer eye for the straight guy. They did a segment on MSG. They split the room in half. They served visually the exact same meal to both sides of the room, except one half had MSG in their food. At the end of the meal they announced they were doing a study on MSG and asked if anyone felt they had consumed some and were feeling the effects. A few people raised their hands including one very outspoken woman who insisted her throat was closing up and had a big headache. She was in the group that didn't have any MSG in the food. MSG is just a naturally occurring salt derived from an amino acid that adds a savory taste to food. However since it is an acronym, people assume it's some kind of chemical poison the Chinese snuck in and pretend to have sensitivity when they don't.

My understanding is celiac disease is obviously very real and to that small group of persons afflicted by it, gluten is poisonous (to less than 1% of the population.) Most people that claim they have "Gluten Allergy" don't. The few that aren't just trying to be into the latest health craze and are having some kind of reaction probably have gluten intolerance or gluten sensitivity. That in itself is debatable since there is no real test if you have it other than asking if you feel better when you stop eating it, which in many cases is probably the placebo effect.

Here's an interesting article (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/07/throwing_out_the_wheat.html) pointing out how overblown the "anti-gluten" craze is. It also mentions that avoiding some foods can actually increase sensitivity (the way Atkins dieters developed sensitivity to starchy foods) and that part of the people feeling better is they are avoiding bad foods since cutting gluten coincidentally also kills a crap load of junk food from your diet.

I am not convinced it's the problem everyone is saying it is.

This is the problem with people using science as factual truth, limited perspective. Science can prove or disprove anything from the right perspective. You want to test the effects of MSG like this then you need to try multiple angles. If people are consuming MSG everyday, are they really going to feel noticeable effects from one meal? To start, maybe try testing this out on people that donít consume any MSG at all?

I know from personal experience the effects of MSG. Due to past choices, I damaged my nervous system to the point were I developed a twitchy lower eyelid. Luckily it wasnít visually noticeable to others, but it was a very noticeable and undesirable feeling. After a little bit of time on a raw vegan diet this completely went away. That is until I decided to try incorporating Braggís Liquid Aminos into my diet. Sure enough from about one mere teaspoon the twitch returned. And it took about two weeks to go away. What is it about Braggís that would cause this? MSG.

Donít put so much faith in science. Our scientific understanding is not omniscient and until science has an omniscient perspective it will never know the full truth about anything.

MSG is just a naturally occurring salt derived from an amino acid that adds a savory taste to food. Just because something is naturally occurring, doesn't mean it's natural for us to consume nor doesn't do any harm to us.

enjolras
06-04-2012, 02:56 PM
This is the problem with people using science as factual truth, limited perspective. Science can prove or disprove anything from the right perspective. You want to test the effects of MSG like this then you need to try multiple angles. If people are consuming MSG everyday, are they really going to feel noticeable effects from one meal? To start, maybe try testing this out on people that donít consume any MSG at all?

UGH....

That's such a terrible statement. Science most certainly can not "prove or disprove" anything from any perspective. That's the job of statistics.

What you are describing is the use of bad or (much more often) misunderstood science to assert things that the actual experimental evidence does not support. Good science and the people who actually understand it understand the limitations of the experimental evidence and rarely try to extrapolate from that. Instead they invest time and effort into expanding the experimental boundaries through new research. It's why the average person can't understand why academics are continually churning out research testing much of the same stuff (seemingly over and over again). It's not a waste of time, it's the scientific community attempting to come to some experimental consensus about how the world works.

By definition this is not malleable. You can't run an experiment to simultaneously prove that MSG has two opposing properties. You can run experiments finding that MSG is both good and bad for you, but that doesn't mean either is true. It means that there are variables that we are failing to control for and thus more research is needed.

The problem isn't "science". The problem is ignorant folks who insist on using in-progress experimentation to assert claims that have not yet been proven (or at least driven to consensus).

hades
06-04-2012, 03:03 PM
Sciene schmience, we need Mythbusters to test this gluten thing out!!!

IHaveALight
06-04-2012, 03:52 PM
UGH....

That's such a terrible statement. Science most certainly can not "prove or disprove" anything from any perspective. That's the job of statistics.

Not from any perspective, but only from the right perspective. And clearly only when someone puts their faith in that science to be the whole truth. For without an omniscient understanding, any scientific truth is only faith. Faith that there isn't more to the subject that isn't quite understood yet.

What you are describing is the use of bad or (much more often) misunderstood science to assert things that the actual experimental evidence does not support. Good science and the people who actually understand it understand the limitations of the experimental evidence and rarely try to extrapolate from that. Instead they invest time and effort into expanding the experimental boundaries through new research. It's why the average person can't understand why academics are continually churning out research testing much of the same stuff (seemingly over and over again). It's not a waste of time, it's the scientific community attempting to come to some experimental consensus about how the world works.

By definition this is not malleable. You can't run an experiment to simultaneously prove that MSG has two opposing properties. You can run experiments finding that MSG is both good and bad for you, but that doesn't mean either is true. It means that there are variables that we are failing to control for and thus more research is needed.

The problem isn't "science". The problem is ignorant folks who insist on using in-progress experimentation to assert claims that have not yet been proven (or at least driven to consensus).

I agree with everything you say here. But, also, I think no science is completely understood and that all science we know of is in-progress experimentation.

broncosteven
06-04-2012, 07:04 PM
Do a search for it, on the Wiki page it says it does help Pain Management (granted it is Wiki)

Thanks,

I did a couple more searches and found this, almost too good to be true but I think I am going out to GNC tomorrow and buying a bottle:

http://www.becomehappy.com/dlpa.htm

I have suffered from Migraines all my life and now with the chronic pain and nerve damage a lot of the nerve damage meds interact with the migraine meds as they all play with my seratonin (SP?) levels. Because of that I can't take the Lyrica and Cymbalta type stuff which all the pain Docs want me on. The only thing I can tolerate is Gabapentin and even that wipes me out even though they all say it should not cause any side effects.

It would be a miracle if this works as it is written up above. It would be nice to have my life back.

Kaylore
06-04-2012, 08:14 PM
Sorry Hua, but 30% of the population does not have gluten allergy, or Celiac disease.

Chris
06-04-2012, 08:27 PM
Sorry Hua, but 30% of the population does not have gluten allergy, or Celiac disease.

Well your avatar still looks skeptical.

alkemical
06-05-2012, 05:09 AM
Sounds like you're saying he had a yeast infection.

Candida is a crazy thing.

Ray Finkle
06-05-2012, 05:14 AM
Sorry Hua, but 30% of the population does not have gluten allergy, or Celiac disease.

Celiac disease effects less than 5% of the population in the US....probably even lower than that.

alkemical
06-05-2012, 05:20 AM
http://www.candidapage.com/cccomp.shtml

Candida vs. Gluten Intolerance Symptoms
The symptoms of gluten intolerance are very similar to candida symptoms.

The following list of common symptoms of low level Candida albicans infections was found on a web page. I have used it as a framework to compare with some of the symptoms of an undiagnosed gluten intolerant person. (Celiac and gluten intolerance are used interchangeably below, though they really aren't. Celiac disease refers to a damaged intestinal mucosa. Gluten intolerance can be a sensitivity without much measurable damage):

Hulamau
06-05-2012, 10:04 AM
Sorry Hua, but 30% of the population does not have gluten allergy, or Celiac disease.

Again you're misreading what I said and mistaking definitions here Kaylore .. Extrapolating from the roughly 11% that modern research now indicates have SOME degree of active gulten intolerance, the likleihood is that upwards of 30% of the population (roughly 19% of who are currently symptom free) could be at risk for developing SOME degree of gluten reactivity/intolerance long term with continued unchecked daily gluten exposure ... which is still a far cry from full blown celiac disease .... but nevertheless can be disruptive to one's life to one degree or another.

You can argue numbers to your hearts content and all of these are only statistical estimates at this point in any event, but these numbers are more recent estimates backed by far more accumulated research and experience than the vanishingly small 1% number from 20 years ago that only concerned full blown celiac at a time when the then archaic and limited measurements and testing protocol was very restrictive and FULL of false negative test results sinse those older tests were only effective at all in diagnosising any gluten sensitivity AFTER major destruction of one's intenstinal Villi had already taken place! Thats not unlike a cancer test that is only effective in detecting stage 4 cancer and everyone else r,egardless of tumor size or obvious disease manifestation, gets a clean bill of health :-). Not so handy indeed and highly misleading at best!

To be clear, in no way did I suggest that 30% of the population is actively gluten intolerant now. But rather am only making the point that the issue is far broader than the miniscule 1% issue you assume it must be from that superficial and slanted Slate article.

And again, for clarity's sake, it is not a gluten 'allergy'... some people are indeed 'allergic' to wheat for example, but their symptoms and etiology are typically quite different than that experienced from actual gluten intolerance .. even though both are suggested to avoid wheat and other gluten containing grains and ingredients.

Cheers!

Hulamau
06-05-2012, 10:20 AM
http://www.candidapage.com/cccomp.shtml

Candida vs. Gluten Intolerance Symptoms
The symptoms of gluten intolerance are very similar to candida symptoms.

The following list of common symptoms of low level Candida albicans infections was found on a web page. I have used it as a framework to compare with some of the symptoms of an undiagnosed gluten intolerant person. (Celiac and gluten intolerance are used interchangeably below, though they really aren't. Celiac disease refers to a damaged intestinal mucosa. Gluten intolerance can be a sensitivity without much measurable damage):

True enough Alkemical,

Candida symptoms and gluten intolerance do indeed share a lot of overlapping symptoms due to one of the main effects of both conditions being long term impared nutrient absorption which is the most proximate cause for the lion's share of 'problems' that both conditions tend to manifest.

There are some differences as well though (oral thrush for example in candidiasis that is not found in gluten intolerance or celiac, etc. etc.) and effective treatment for both conditions is quite different as well with candidiasis responding well (in most cases) to combined anti-fungal ( whether pharmaceutical or natural origin) with such things a caprilic acid .. extra virgin coconut oil and oregano oil, Thorne Labs SF722 Undenoic acid, cranberry extracts and certain probiotic strains such as S. Bourlardi and a number of other remedies that work in combination with strict sugar and refined hi-glycemic carbs avoidance at least during any candida overgrowth period.

Those things wont help with true gluten intolerance symptoms though, even though some of the symptoms may manifest similarly to candida problems.

Again, the similarity in symptoms is simply from their common main effect of reducing global nutrient absorption during the active inflammatory period of the two diseases .. which obviously would then show up as common manifestations.

Hulamau
06-05-2012, 10:51 AM
Celiac disease effects less than 5% of the population in the US....probably even lower than that.

That's about right for full blown celiac Ray, but the real number is likely closer to the 7% to 8% number for full blown celiacs ... as even the most stick in the mud old line gastroenterologists with a God Complex who stopped learning after their residency in 1965 and only keep up to date via drug company reps and an occasional JAMA article , will now readily admit that there are far more as yet undiagnosised full blown celiacs our there than there are diagnosed ones even in this day and age of greater awareness of the issue.

The trick is learning to intervene BEFORE it goes full blown .. something that wasnt possible 10 years ago ... as there are now a number of relialble and accurate tools and tests that have very low false positives and false negative results to help catch the millions that are slowly drifting toward a celiac break down before it becomes a fait acompli.

The funny thing is, the only real resistance to learning about this, or accepting it as just one of the many ailments the body is subject too, is the emotional/mental knee-jerk reactions that we can all so easily understand and identify with. That is, in coming to terms with the possiblity that something you enjoy and have taken for granted forever might not be so good for you afterall and might have to be curtailed in some cases to avoid the unwanted consequences.

It's far more expedient and satisfying to jump on any bandwagon rolling past that suggests its all a communist plot or some such thing, and to listen carefully to only one pre-deterimed side of the evidence that supports ones preconceived hopes or opinion on the matter.

Same is true for those on the other side of the coin who go overboard and try to make it all a much bigger issue than it really is as well, and overly inflate the issue to make it all gloom and doom which is just as misleading and false as the denial ostriches.

I agree those 'gluten is evil' evangalists cause just as much, if not more, confusion and stress as the denial crowd and can be even more irritating for sure.

IHaveALight
06-05-2012, 11:25 AM
Humanity is so ammusing.
They want to eat bird food but it's not consumable in it's natural state so they modify it to where they can consume it, in mass quantities non the less. Yet they can't comprehend why it causes issues. Our bodies were not designed for grains, leave em for the birds. ;)

http://www.utne.com/uploadedImages/utne/blogs/The_Sweet_Pursuit/bird-and-seed.jpg?n=9495

Taco John
06-07-2012, 03:33 PM
I got my order today. I'm dropping acid now...

Taco John
06-07-2012, 03:34 PM
Update: so far I feel normal

ColoradoDarin
06-07-2012, 03:41 PM
I got my order today. I'm dropping acid now...

Ditto.

ant1999e
06-07-2012, 03:50 PM
I've been tryin it for a few days and still hear the voices in my head.