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View Full Version : Early Word: Broncos Offense to resemble Colts Offense with Manning


pricejj
05-26-2012, 10:16 AM
http://www.profootballweekly.com/story/permalink/33035

"The Broncos offense is evolving into something very similar to what Manning ran much of the past decade with the Colts, going out of the shotgun with receivers and tight ends split wide, one running back in the backfield and using the no-huddle much of time."

Jay3
05-26-2012, 10:21 AM
It can't be primarily out of the shotgun, because I have it on good information that just isn't how it's done in the pros.

BroncoBeavis
05-26-2012, 10:23 AM
It can't be primarily out of the shotgun, because I have it on good information that just isn't how it's done in the pros.

How they can just outright ignore the input of probably the greatest offensive coordinator in the game today is beyond me. LOL

Tombstone RJ
05-26-2012, 10:25 AM
Just because they are practicing these formations does not mean this will be what the offense looks like all the time. I'm pretty sure the guys are just trying to learn a very different offense than the one run last year. Once they feel confortable with the no huddle then I'm guessing they will practice a more traditional pro style offense with either a single back 2 TE formation or an I back formation.

Heyneck
05-26-2012, 10:27 AM
while I think we will get to this at some point... I high doubt we will see it much in the first half of the season. Manning was able to run that system because the personnel had been in place for a long time. Expecting this out of the gate is just bad reporting.

NFLBRONCO
05-26-2012, 10:34 AM
In 2013 yes this year not as much. I see Denver protecting Manning in 12 since the injury and year off from playing.

Shananahan
05-26-2012, 11:43 AM
Yeah, I doubt he even plays that much, just to be safe.

enjolras
05-26-2012, 12:10 PM
I have no doubt that the Broncos will run a hurry up offense mostly from the shotgun from the opening snap this year. Manning isn't playing for 2013, he's playing for right now.

Look these guys are pros. They have several months to get this down and have already been working on it for quite some time. The Manning offense is actually a relatively simple one that depends on timing and execution to work. I have no doubt that our receivers are up to the challenge of developing that chemistry and timing.

There is no way Manning is going to start lining up behind center and running a ground and pound offense. It's going to be the precision timing based offense he has always run. Hell it's the type of offense that protects Manning the most as it wears defenses down and the quick strike aspect neutralizes pass rushers.

Bmore Manning
05-26-2012, 12:13 PM
Been saying this and as usual Bmore Manning gets ganged up on, but again what do I know..

rugbythug
05-26-2012, 12:18 PM
Been saying this and as usual Bmore Manning gets ganged up on, but again what do I know..

3rd Person + Alias + Internet= Awesomewinness

peacepipe
05-26-2012, 12:35 PM
It can't be primarily out of the shotgun, because I have it on good information that just isn't how it's done in the pros.

no,just the type of offense TT could run wasn't viable in the pros.

broncswin
05-26-2012, 12:38 PM
Been saying this and as usual Bmore Manning gets ganged up on, but again what do I know..

Quit crying

Mogulseeker
05-26-2012, 12:54 PM
Just because they are practicing these formations does not mean this will be what the offense looks like all the time. I'm pretty sure the guys are just trying to learn a very different offense than the one run last year. Once they feel confortable with the no huddle then I'm guessing they will practice a more traditional pro style offense with either a single back 2 TE formation or an I back formation.

I hope to see a lot of this. In terms of our personell, I think it woudl be the best team we have on offense all out on the field at once.

HILife
05-26-2012, 01:22 PM
3rd Person + Alias + Internet= Awesomewinness

Hilife think hilife is going to start posting in third person for now on. Hilife hears that's what all the great men in the world do.

baja
05-26-2012, 01:31 PM
Been saying this and as usual Bmore Manning gets ganged up on, but again what do I know..

Dude consider this;

The board goes through 2 years of endless Tebow homerism unrelated to the Broncos (which is why this this board exists)

You join with a handle of Bmore Manning.

Right off the bat you inform us that you are a football expert that specializes in all things Peyton

As you posting attitude unfolds you show to be somewhat pretentious about your knowledge.


Result; You have not generally made a good first impression. Mellow out and things will turn around.

CEH
05-26-2012, 01:44 PM
We've never seen no huddle high altitude football for 8 homes games.
The opposing D will be gassed by halftime. There is absolutely no way to prepare for Mile High no huddle with Manning in a week.

The D will be bringing it as well and both sides playing in harmony

baja
05-26-2012, 01:54 PM
We've never seen no huddle high altitude football for 8 homes games.
The opposing D will be gassed by halftime. There is absolutely no way to prepare for Mile High no huddle with Manning in a week.

The D will be bringing it as well and both sides playing in harmony

It's very exciting no doubt. It will be nice to recapture our famous home field advantage that has been missing for way to long.

Broncos4tw
05-26-2012, 01:59 PM
We bent over backwards completely restyling the offense every time we brought in a new QB, to deal with deficiencies. I don't see a problem at all with forming our offense around Peyton, to make him as effective as humanely possible. If we can turn our offense into a college-like circus for Tebow, we sure as hell can form an efficient squad around Peyton in a system we KNOW works, because we've seen him do it year after year.

ant1999e
05-26-2012, 02:00 PM
Been saying this and as usual Bmore Manning gets ganged up on, but again what do I know..

Your input is obviously not appriciated here. You should take your opinions to another message board. Really you should.

bombay
05-26-2012, 02:02 PM
What else would they do? Of course you do what Manning does best.

baja
05-26-2012, 02:04 PM
Your input is obviously not appriciated here. You should take your opinions to another message board. Really you should.

I think he can add a lot to the board, though he might consider dropping the know it all attitude.

pricejj
05-26-2012, 02:15 PM
I think he can add a lot to the board, though he might consider dropping the know it all attitude.

Yeah, he's legit. The dude is nice, informative, and has a lot of input.

DENVERDUI55
05-26-2012, 02:32 PM
http://www.profootballweekly.com/story/permalink/33035

"The Broncos offense is evolving into something very similar to what Manning ran much of the past decade with the Colts, going out of the shotgun with receivers and tight ends split wide, one running back in the backfield and using the no-huddle much of time."

It can't be primarily out of the ''NINTENDO'' shotgun. Denver has MCCoy who is too dumb to pull it off and designs a scheme to make his QB fail and we just signed a FB. PER ORANGEMANE EXPERTS

canadianbroncosfan
05-26-2012, 02:38 PM
Wait we're not running the option this year??????????

canadianbroncosfan
05-26-2012, 02:41 PM
Been saying this and as usual Bmore Manning gets ganged up on, but again what do I know..

<a href="http://senorgif.memebase.com/2011/12/21/funny-gifs-crying-baby-to-sleep/?utm_source=embed&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=sharewidget"><img class='event-item-lol-image' src='http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/funny-gifs-cat-soothes-crying-baby-to-sleep.gif' alt="Cat Soothes Crying Baby To Sleep GIF - Cat Soothes Crying Baby To Sleep " title="Cat Soothes Crying Baby To Sleep GIF - Cat Soothes Crying Baby To Sleep " height="180px" width="320px" /></a><br />see more <a href="http://senorgif.memebase.com?utm_source=embed&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=sharewidget">Gifs</a>

Now, now

errand
05-26-2012, 02:43 PM
It can't be primarily out of the shotgun, because I have it on good information that just isn't how it's done in the pros.


Well, it's not.... unless you actually have an NFL QB....

DBroncos4life
05-26-2012, 02:46 PM
Wait we're not running the option this year??????????

Someday the run and shoot offense will be cool again.

DenverBrit
05-26-2012, 02:51 PM
Someday the run and shoot offense will be cool again.

Maybe when the 'shoot' part works. :)

DBroncos4life
05-26-2012, 03:07 PM
Maybe when the 'shoot' part works. :)

It will live again!!!


http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2007/07/what-killed-run-and-shoot.html

SoCalBronco
05-26-2012, 04:29 PM
Good. They should do the things that he does well. That's the mark of a good coach...to do what fits the personnel best.

The one back offense by its very design is an offense that puts stress on the defense to adjust. The theory when Washington (Skins, not Huskies) started using it alot in the 80s was that the 3rd WR would provide more value and more of a threat to the defense than the FB in the passing game and in the run game you would eliminate the need for the FB lead blocking on a LB because you could pull the LB out of the box entirely to cover the slot reciever (ofcourse, the defense could decide to keep that extra LB in the box and move one safety to cover down on the slot WR, which would create other problems for the defense).

The offense progressed from the basic formation to multiple one back looks. This was really brought about by Jack Elway and later (and most prominently) Dennis Erickson at Washington State and Miami. You'd have the basic slot look (X and 3rd WR to the left, TE and Z to the right), and from there you could play games by overloading the defense (three WRs to a side, TE to the other side, or single WR to one side, two WRs and the TE to the other side, i.e. the basic trips set), or going with two WRs to each side (Run and Shoot style formation), or a single WR to one side, and three WRs to the other side (also prominent in the RNS), or a WR and TE to each side (a likely favorite formation this year), or both WRs and one TE to a side and a TE to the other side (another overload principle).

Each of these one back sets is designed to stress the defense and force them to adjust. Especially with the overload formations, if the defense doesnt shift over, you've created 2 or 3 more unfilled gaps to run through. The Colts liked to run their "pin and pull" run play when they had two TEs align to the same side and take advantage of the numerical advantage.

What might help our young WRs in this offense is that they won't have to learn alot of offense. The Colts ran a relatively small number of passes, so they got good at a few things and did them well. We'll see alot of Levels concept, that's something Manning loved to run at INDY. I think the no-huddle will be a nice touch as well, although you have to be in tip top physical shape to run the no huddle well. It will help to keep defenses simple when they only have a couple seconds to get aligned, they can only run fairly basic stuff on that side of the ball. It will also wear down the opposing pass rushers.

NorCalBronco7
05-26-2012, 04:47 PM
Been saying this and as usual Bmore Manning gets ganged up on, but again what do I know..

ROFL!

hambone13
05-26-2012, 04:53 PM
http://www.profootballweekly.com/story/permalink/33035

"The Broncos offense is evolving into something very similar to what Manning ran much of the past decade with the Colts, going out of the shotgun with receivers and tight ends split wide, one running back in the backfield and using the no-huddle much of time."

Peyton Manning already is having a great impact on the Broncos, though more so as a teacher than as a quarterback.

Even though this is Manningís first season in Denver, we hear he didnít spend his first OTAs the way most incoming free agents do, which is learning the ins and outs of the organization. Instead, he was busy educating his teammates on how he operates as the leader of team. The Broncos' offense is evolving into something very similar to what Manning ran much of the past decade with the Colts, going out of the shotgun with receivers and tight ends split wide, one running back in the backfield and using the no-huddle much of time. Manning has tried to make sure all of his teammates are on the same page, so that the offense runs smoothly when the season begins.

WRs Eric Decker and Demaryius Thomas, who figure to be Manningís top targets this season, both said in interviews that the new offense will require a great adjustment from what the team ran in the past, a reason why Manning believed instructing them so early in the offseason was important.


That's got to be one of the lamest renditions of sports writing ever. Was he there? Is he paraphrasing someone else? Where did this information and observations come from? Weak.

Hulamau
05-26-2012, 05:32 PM
Bmore is alright, he has some good takes as well. Its obvious why he joined up similar to any newbie here who came as a player fan, but in my book he has some worthwhile insights as well and is becoming a Bronco fan pretty quickly. Once he has a full season of Mile High excitement it should all balance out.

DENVERDUI55
05-26-2012, 05:39 PM
Someday the run and shoot offense will be cool again.

Forms of it are still present in the NFL. Instead of using 4 WR teams are using the 2 TE look like NE and Detroit. THat is why the TE position is so important now.

SoCalBronco
05-26-2012, 05:53 PM
Forms of it are still present in the NFL. Instead of using 4 WR teams are using the 2 TE look like NE and Detroit. THat is why the TE position is so important now.

There are aspects of the Run and Shoot that do remain, indeed. The four verticals route that everyone runs with one of hte inside recievers having the option to stay on the hash or bend to the post depending on whether there is a deep middle safety or not (or run a basic cross at 10 yards against man to man) was the Run and Shoot Seam route. Alot of teams still run the old Run and Shoot "Switch" route as well (the Giants do alot). Alot of the stuff that remains in the league that gives WRs options on routes (comeback but fade if pressed, TE post if middle open, curl up if middle closed) came from the RNS as well.

There were some problems with the old style Run and Shoot which didn't survive the evolution of football in the 90s. For one thing, Bob Davie at Texas A&M totally figured out the pass protection scheme in the early 90s against John Jenkins' Houston Cougars. June Jones at SMU has totally changed the Run and Shoot pass protection and added Shotgun. It's not an under center half-roll anymore. Also, a key staple of the RNS in the 80s as Mouse Davis concieved of it was that they would use motion to determine the coverage. The idea was that if a LB followed the slotback in motion it was man-underneath with 1 or 2 high safeties, if the LB's simply "bumped across", it was likely a zone, if the safety followed and the LB stayed in the box, it was a blitz, but this was too simplistic and defenses just started bumping across even in man and having a LB follow but playing zone on the snap. The advent of "matchup zone" coverages wreaked a little havoc with the RNS too. Orignally, the offense was based on the principle that you could group every coverage under one of four families: Man-Under, Blitz, Two Deep Zone and Three Deep Zone. That's not really accurate anymore. There are many hybrid coverages and matchup zones like Quarters Coverage and 2 Read can look like different things depending on where the routes in the offense go. Also, some of the routes would be based on how the CB aligned pre-snap. Take the "Choice" route for example. If the CB was up and to the inside, the single WR on that side would run a fade. If he was off and to the outside, a post, off and to the inside an out or comeback. But CBs could always change alignment right at the snap to mess up the read for both the QB and the WR.

If you watch SMU today or Hawaii when Jones was there, you'll see they have kept some classic Run and Shoot routes like the Go Route and the Switch route. Those are still staples of Jones attack and you will see him using the Slide route as well from time to time, but he has replaced Choice with the Levels concept that Ted Marchibroda came up with and the Bills used alot in the early 90s and the Colts and Patriots used alot in the 2000s. When Bill Walsh lived in Maui during his retirement, he also had some input into helping Jones reconfigure his offense using some ball control patterns as well.

pricejj
05-26-2012, 05:58 PM
Bmore is alright, he has some good takes as well. Its obvious why he joined up similar to any newbie here who came as a player fan, but in my book he has some worthwhile insights as well and is becoming a Bronco fan pretty quickly. Once he has a full season of Mile High excitement it should all balance out.

Bmore followed his favorite player, Peyton Manning to this board. Manning will retire a Bronco. By that time Bmore is going to be bleeding Blue and Orange (if he isn't already). The dude is probably a Bronco and an Orangemane member for life, and he doesn't even know it yet. ;D

Mile High has that affect on people, we all know that.

GO BRONCOS!!!
:Broncos:

Agamemnon
05-26-2012, 06:24 PM
And in other news, the sky is blue...

DBroncos4life
05-26-2012, 06:25 PM
Forms of it are still present in the NFL. Instead of using 4 WR teams are using the 2 TE look like NE and Detroit. THat is why the TE position is so important now.

The the R&S is more or less the spread offense.
http://m.voices.yahoo.com/a-look-spread-offense-5297387.html
I still think Tebow could run the R&S in the NFL.

DENVERDUI55
05-26-2012, 07:11 PM
The the R&S is more or less the spread offense.
http://m.voices.yahoo.com/a-look-spread-offense-5297387.html
I still think Tebow could run the R&S in the NFL.It requires quick decision making and reading the defense two things TT struggles at. There are R&S concepts in every teams playbook in NFL.

Archer81
05-26-2012, 07:16 PM
No kidding. A guy who spent his entire career in one place is going to replicate that in his new city?

You guyz no wai.

:Broncos:

DBroncos4life
05-26-2012, 07:16 PM
It requires quick decision making and reading the defense two things TT struggles at. There are R&S concepts in every teams playbook in NFL.

I think his college spread experience would have helped him IMO. I think over time with his size and running threat he would have made blitzing him and the R&S problems in the RZ go away.

peacepipe
05-26-2012, 08:29 PM
I think his college spread experience would have helped him IMO. I think over time with his size and running threat he would have made blitzing him and the R&S problems in the RZ go away.

but it didn't. If his experience in the college spread was going to help it would of shown. R&S has been tried and has failed in the NFL. being a threat running the ball is only effective if you're just as much of a threat throwing the ball. which everyone knows tebow wasn't a threat to throw.

DBroncos4life
05-26-2012, 08:41 PM
but it didn't. If his experience in the college spread was going to help it would of shown. R&S has been tried and has failed in the NFL. being a threat running the ball is only effective if you're just as much of a threat throwing the ball. which everyone knows tebow wasn't a threat to throw.

Tebow isn't a threat in a traditional NFL passing system. A R&S offense would be closer to what he ran in college then a traditional offense. As for you saying the R&S failed I disagree. While it might not have produced a championship but it had lots of success. A wrinkle like a mobile strong QB that can beat a blitzing player might take it over the top. Just thinking outside the box.

peacepipe
05-26-2012, 08:52 PM
Tebow isn't a threat in a traditional NFL passing system. A R&S offense would be closer to what he ran in college then a traditional offense. As for you saying the R&S failed I disagree. While it might not have produced a championship but it had lots of success. A wrinkle like a mobile strong QB that can beat a blitzing player might take it over the top. Just thinking outside the box.isn't a championship what its all about? until a tebow/vick like QB win a superbowl,you are not going to see teams switch to it. traditional has worked to win SBs for decades & until proven otherwise,thats the way its going to be.

DBroncos4life
05-26-2012, 09:03 PM
isn't a championship what its all about? until a tebow/vick like QB win a superbowl,you are not going to see teams switch to it. traditional has worked to win SBs for decades & until proven otherwise,thats the way its going to be.

Do you view the Air Coryell Offense a failure?

peacepipe
05-26-2012, 09:12 PM
Do you view the Air Coryell Offense a failure?you got me there but it hasn't been effective since then.

maher_tyler
05-26-2012, 09:17 PM
while I think we will get to this at some point... I high doubt we will see it much in the first half of the season. Manning was able to run that system because the personnel had been in place for a long time. Expecting this out of the gate is just bad reporting.

We changed our offense mid season with no offseason to accommodate Tebow. With a full offseason with Manning don't you think it's possible to run quite a bit what he did in Indy?

LongDongJohnson
05-27-2012, 04:29 AM
Im gonna miss the days where the broncos were a college team and ran a college offense.

errand
05-27-2012, 07:27 AM
Bmore is alright, he has some good takes as well. Its obvious why he joined up similar to any newbie here who came as a player fan, but in my book he has some worthwhile insights as well and is becoming a Bronco fan pretty quickly. Once he has a full season of Mile High excitement it should all balance out.

Compared to how the vast majority of "player" fans have acted whenever said "player" they personally champion is criticized, I'd say Bmore Manning is head and shoulders above those that cheer the player more than the team..

errand
05-27-2012, 07:41 AM
Tebow isn't a threat in a traditional NFL passing system. A R&S offense would be closer to what he ran in college then a traditional offense. As for you saying the R&S failed I disagree. While it might not have produced a championship but it had lots of success. A wrinkle like a mobile strong QB that can beat a blitzing player might take it over the top. Just thinking outside the box.

Lions drafted Andre Ware....a very athletic QB, that ran it in college, and failed miserably in the offense.

The run and shoot had it's moments, true.....but it was junked after teams realized that the scheme and the type of smaller OL and WR's and cameo appearances of TE (if at all) couldn't grind out the tough yards on the ground to score from inside the 10.....or to kill the clock once they hada lead in 4th

CEH
05-27-2012, 07:53 AM
you got me there but it hasn't been effective since then.

Hard to replicate Air Coryell. That offense would be just fine and thriving in 2012 if Fouts,Winslow, Jefferson/CHandler, Joiner, Brooks and Muncie were all in their prime in 2012

How many one back offenses with 3 WRs sets are there in the NFL? That was the staple of Air Coyell once Muncie arrived.

You think Gronk or Sharpe or the move TE is new. No Winslow was doing this back in the 80' To fast for LBers too big for DBs

peacepipe
05-27-2012, 09:59 AM
Hard to replicate Air Coryell. That offense would be just fine and thriving in 2012 if Fouts,Winslow, Jefferson/CHandler, Joiner, Brooks and Muncie were all in their prime in 2012

How many one back offenses with 3 WRs sets are there in the NFL? That was the staple of Air Coyell once Muncie arrived.

You think Gronk or Sharpe or the move TE is new. No Winslow was doing this back in the 80' To fast for LBers too big for DBs

Originally it was known as the West Coast offense until an article about San Francisco 49ers Head Coach Bill Walsh in Sports Illustrated in the early 80s incorrectly called Walsh's offense "the West Coast offense," and this mis-labelling stuck. Subsequently, Coryell's offense scheme was referred to as "Air Coryell" --- the name announcers had assigned to his high powered Charger offenses in San Diego, featuring Hall of Famers QB Dan Fouts, WR Charlie Joiner, & TE Kellen Winslow,[22] and Pro Bowl WR Wes Chandler & HB Chuck Muncie. Today it is mostly known as the "Coryell offense", although the "vertical offense" is another accepted name..

peacepipe
05-27-2012, 10:04 AM
Do you view the Air Coryell Offense a failure?I,as well you should do more research on this.


Disadvantages of the Run & ShootThere are several potential disadvantages to using a Run & Shoot offense:

Since the formation does not use any tight ends or fullbacks, the quarterback is at increased risk for being hit or sacked since there are fewer players available to block a defense's blitz.
Teams often use a strong running game to keep possession of the football, especially at times when it would be advantageous for them to run out the clock. A criticism of the Run & Shoot offense is that teams would often continue to rely upon the pass rather than establish the run to finish off a game. One example of this is the 1992 AFC Wild Card game where the Houston Oilers, after earning a 35-3 lead against the Buffalo Bills, rather than winding the clock down with the running game and preserving the lead for the victory, called 22 pass plays against only four runs in the second half and eventually lost the game by a score of 41-38. Alternatives like the Spread offense have been preferred over the Run & Shoot in part because they place more emphasis on the running game.
Many commentators noted that the Run & Shoot is less effective in the "Red Zone," when the offense is less than 20 yards from the goal line. In this area the offense has less room to move around and cannot spread the defense out as in other areas of the field.

air coryell wasn't a R&S system.

DBroncos4life
05-27-2012, 12:00 PM
I,as well you should do more research on this.




air coryell wasn't a R&S system.

I know it wasn't . You said the R&S system was a failure because it didn't win a championship. That is why I brought up air coryell's system.