Egypt, first free elections in 5,000 years.

[Bacchus]

Egypt Votes: 50 million vote in first free presidential election




Today and tomorrow, Egyptians go to the polls in the first free, democratic presidential election in their lives. More than a year after the fall of President Hosni Mubarak, over 50 million people across Egypt are casting ballots in the two day vote.



The rest......

http://www.examiner.com/article/egypt-votes-50-million-vote-first-free-presidential-election

Very interesting time in the Middle East. I believe any revolution that is accelerated by FB, Twitter and Youtube has to be a good thing, because those are all freedoms that Governments want to edit, censor and minimize.

There will be setbacks but I think this will end up being a great time for the Egyptian people.

[hambone13]

Egypt Votes: 50 million vote in first free presidential election




Today and tomorrow, Egyptians go to the polls in the first free, democratic presidential election in their lives. More than a year after the fall of President Hosni Mubarak, over 50 million people across Egypt are casting ballots in the two day vote.



The rest......

http://www.examiner.com/article/egypt-votes-50-million-vote-first-free-presidential-election

Very interesting time in the Middle East. I believe any revolution that is accelerated by FB, Twitter and Youtube has to be a good thing, because those are all freedoms that Governments want to edit, censor and minimize.

There will be setbacks but I think this will end up being a great time for the Egyptian people.

You have to wonder whether the population is ready for a free election with controlled and focused propaganda. Those sorts of environments are not truly free elections or democracies/republics. It will certainly be interesting to see how it pans out.

[Bacchus]

You have to wonder whether the population is ready for a free election with controlled and focused propaganda. Those sorts of environments are not truly free elections or democracies/republics. It will certainly be interesting to see how it pans out.

I agree, and there will be coruption and violence but I think they are on the right road. As long as the people have a voice and the military does not over step their boundaries they will be ok.

[srphoenix]

yep, free to vote themselves back into an islamic "republic" with sharia law and no regard for anyone who thinks differently than them.

hopefully that isn't what happens, but I seriously doubt it.

[ant1999e]

First and last election.

[broncocalijohn]

eh, call me in another 5,000 years.

[sirhcyennek81]

First and last election.


This.

I'm sure at some point an "emergency" will develop concerning Israel and democratic processes will be suspended. Then we can hear how the Egyptian people got to vote once.

:Broncos:

[ant1999e]

This.

I'm sure at some point an "emergency" will develop concerning Israel and democratic processes will be suspended. Then we can hear how the Egyptian people got to vote once.

:Broncos:
That or they'll vote for Sharia Law and become oppressed again.

[cutthemdown]

I read Egyptian tourists sites like ghost towns right now. Also the countryside is now rife with crime and thuggery. I doubt they end up much different then before, just more anti American. Mubarak was our friend and basically did what we said for yrs. Gaddaffi was playing ball with the USA, helped us by giving up nukes and giving us centrifuges we used to make a virus for Iran. We repaid that by letting him have a knife shoved up his ass. Then comes Syria, finally a country and family we should relish taking out....but here is there old friend the soviets to protect them. So we fold and let the Soviets protect there puppet state.

In the end the result is countries see Russia will go to the mat for you, Obama won't. Absolutely no reason to play ball with Obama on anything because he turns on you. America isn't to be trusted. The result is Russia has increased their influence in the region, and we have not. Great job Obama. At least he saw what was happening in time to let Bahrian and the Saudis lay waste that countries protests.

Obama showed his lack of leadership during the Arab spring. Now tension with Israel/Egypt at an all time high since the war ended.

[cutthemdown]

This.

I'm sure at some point an "emergency" will develop concerning Israel and democratic processes will be suspended. Then we can hear how the Egyptian people got to vote once.

:Broncos:

Like when Israel bombs the hell out of Iran uniting the Muslims again?

[barryr]

I have given up hope that much positive will be coming out of the ME anytime soon. People voting, but the election was probably really decided a year ago.

[mhgaffney]

yep, free to vote themselves back into an islamic "republic" with sharia law and no regard for anyone who thinks differently than them.

hopefully that isn't what happens, but I seriously doubt it.

The fact is that Islamic countries do a better job taking care of the poor, widows, the infirm, the hungry, and the disadvantaged than we do in the primarily Christian US.

At any rate -- those Islamic countries that have not been attacked, bombed, and militarily occupied by a western power do.

[sirhcyennek81]

The fact is that Islamic countries do a better job taking care of the poor, widows, the infirm, the hungry, and the disadvantaged than we do in the primarily Christian US.

At any rate -- those Islamic countries that have not been attacked, bombed, and militarily occupied by a western power do.


Yes. I mean it totally makes sense that areas of the world revolt and overthrow their governments because they are completely satisfied with the society they live in.

:Broncos:

[mhgaffney]

Yes. I mean it totally makes sense that areas of the world revolt and overthrow their governments because they are completely satisfied with the society they live in.

:Broncos:

The reaction of a typical American A-hole.

The fact is that the US supported tyranny throughout the Arab and muslim world, for many years.

Everything from overthrowing democratic governments - such as in Iran where we installed a dictator -- to propping up absolute monarchs in S Arabia, a monarchy that funded and still funds Wahabist and Al Qaeda extremists.

We also provided nerve gas to Saddam in the 1980s, and vast military support to the corrupt Mubarak regime in Egypt, over many years. The US CIA regularly handed over detainees to Egypt for torture and death.

We continue to support tyranny in Kuwait, Bahrain, Quatar, etc

And when have you EVER raised your voice on behalf of democracy in these countries. Like never.

MHG

[Bacchus]

The reaction of a typical American A-hole.

The fact is that the US supported tyranny throughout the Arab and muslim world, for many years.

Everything from overthrowing democratic governments - such as in Iran where we installed a dictator -- to propping up absolute monarchs in S Arabia, a monarchy that funded and still funds Wahabist and Al Qaeda extremists.

We also provided nerve gas to Saddam in the 1980s, and vast military support to the corrupt Mubarak regime in Egypt, over many years. The US CIA regularly handed over detainees to Egypt for torture and death.

We continue to support tyranny in Kuwait, Bahrain, Quatar, etc

And when have you EVER raised your voice on behalf of democracy in these countries. Like never.

MHG

I agree with this. Mubarak tortured his people and kept them down. The people rose up and over threw him and people here in the U.S. are pissed that we did not support Mubarak?? That is outrageous. G.W. Bush talked about having Democracy throughout the Middle East but since we did not topple this government or invade them and impose our kind of Democracy on them people are upset.

Hopefully, they will have a Democratic Islamic nation. Sure we will disagree on many issues, but that is life. After about 20 more years of struggle, since nothing ever comes easy, maybe they can become a stable Islamic country like Turkey.

I feel their country has a much better chance of functioning government then the Democracy in Iraq that we spent $1 trillion on and cost 5,000 American lives.

[Requiem]

I have given up hope that much positive will be coming out of the ME anytime soon. People voting, but the election was probably really decided a year ago.

You just don't like Muslims.

[sirhcyennek81]

The reaction of a typical American A-hole.

The fact is that the US supported tyranny throughout the Arab and muslim world, for many years.

Everything from overthrowing democratic governments - such as in Iran where we installed a dictator -- to propping up absolute monarchs in S Arabia, a monarchy that funded and still funds Wahabist and Al Qaeda extremists.

We also provided nerve gas to Saddam in the 1980s, and vast military support to the corrupt Mubarak regime in Egypt, over many years. The US CIA regularly handed over detainees to Egypt for torture and death.

We continue to support tyranny in Kuwait, Bahrain, Quatar, etc

And when have you EVER raised your voice on behalf of democracy in these countries. Like never.

MHG


You said, you sanctimonious twit, that Muslim countries treat their poor, infirm, elderly and widowed BETTER than western countries in general, and par the course, the US in particular.

Now follow the logic train, giggles. It was the poor, unemployed and underemployed who led those revolts in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt. Satisfied people DO NOT revolt. Why would they? They did not suddenly decide one day that US support of Israel was a reason to overthrow established authoritarian governments. They did it to provide greater political and economic freedom for themselves and their children. Or at least some of them did. However, that will not be the case, and more hard-line Islamic factions will be the ones who determine the course of Egypt, Libya and Tunisia. Democracies in name only.

But anything that weakens US influence and puts Israel in the crosshairs of a Genocide, Act II gets your approval. The Mane's little Nazi.

:Broncos:

[sirhcyennek81]

I agree with this. Mubarak tortured his people and kept them down. The people rose up and over threw him and people here in the U.S. are pissed that we did not support Mubarak?? That is outrageous. G.W. Bush talked about having Democracy throughout the Middle East but since we did not topple this government or invade them and impose our kind of Democracy on them people are upset.

Hopefully, they will have a Democratic Islamic nation. Sure we will disagree on many issues, but that is life. After about 20 more years of struggle, since nothing ever comes easy, maybe they can become a stable Islamic country like Turkey.

I feel their country has a much better chance of functioning government then the Democracy in Iraq that we spent $1 trillion on and cost 5,000 American lives.


Any argument you make automatically becomes suspect when you begin with agreeing with Gaff.

It seems when you say democratic christian or democratic islamic country, they rarely are democratic, and tend to be more theocratic in outlook. When a "free" Egypt ended Mubarak's rule, the first thing they did was declare Israel their number 1 enemy.

BTW, we "imposed" democracy on Japan and Germany. Spent far more in terms of money and lives then will ever be spent on Iraq. But I suppose that does not matter in our modern political setting. Good war vs Bad war, right?

:Broncos:

[barryr]

You just don't like Muslims.

You just like going around and following posters to make snide remarks about them in various threads and then pretend you don't do such things. Like I have stated many times, you have something really wrong with you. But I know I have put you in your place numerous times for you to have to resort to such things, so you've obviously been owned and can't handle it LOL I even bet you are continuing to give me silly negative reps even though I don't bother reading that stupidity :welcome:

[mhgaffney]

This story is not a fluke -- or the exception to the rule. In recent years, this has been the rule.

MHG

US drone strike hits mosque; 10 killed

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/national/25-May-2012/us-drone-strike-hits-mosque-10-killed

[ant1999e]

The fact is that Islamic countries do a better job taking care of the poor, widows, the infirm, the hungry, and the disadvantaged than we do in the primarily Christian US.

At any rate -- those Islamic countries that have not been attacked, bombed, and militarily occupied by a western power do.

Ha, that's some funny shyt. I've been to a few middle saddened countries. You think we have poor class here. Poor in the US isn't shyt compared to poor over there.

[ant1999e]

http://news.yahoo.com/brotherhood-mubaraks-last-pm-seen-egypt-run-off-061315464.html

CAIRO (Reuters) - The Muslim Brotherhood said on Friday its candidate in Egypt's first free presidential vote would fight a run-off next month with ex-air force chief Ahmed Shafiq, the last prime minister of deposed leader Hosni Mubarak.
This week's first-round vote has polarised Egyptians between those determined to avoid handing the presidency back to a man from Mubarak's era and those fearing an Islamist monopoly of ruling institutions. The run-off will be held on June 16 and 17.
The election marks a crucial step in a messy and often bloody transition to democracy, overseen by a military council that has pledged to hand power to a new president by July 1.
The second round threatens further turbulence. Opponents of Shafiq have vowed to take to the streets if he is elected.
But to supporters, Shafiq's military background offers reassurance that he can restore security, a major demand of the population 15 months after Mubarak's ouster.
A victory for the Brotherhood's Mohamed Mursi could worsen tensions between resurgent Islamists and the powerful army, which sees itself as the guardian of the state.
Christians and secular liberals anxious about their own freedoms and the fate of Egypt's vital tourist industry will fret about a promised Brotherhood push for Islamic law.
"Now Egyptians will have to choose between the revolution and the counter-revolution. The next vote will be equivalent to holding a referendum on the revolution," Mohamed Beltagy, a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood's party, told Reuters.
If Mursi becomes president, Islamists will control most ruling institutions - but not the military - in Egypt, the most populous Arab nation, consolidating electoral gains made by fellow-Islamists in other Arab countries in the past year.
Israel has nervously watched the Islamist rise, especially in Egypt, its old enemy until a 1979 peace treaty. Mursi vaguely advocates a "review" of the pact, but the Brotherhood says it will not tear it up. Shafiq has vowed to uphold it.
The bluntly-spoken military man came from behind in a race in which former Arab League chief Amr Moussa and ex-Brotherhood member Abdel Moneim Abol Fotouh were early favourites.
His late surge reflected the anxiety of many Egyptians about a breakdown of law and order and the often violent political disputes that have punctuated an army-led transition since a popular revolt ousted Mubarak on February 11, 2011.
The Brotherhood announced early on Friday that the run-off would be between Shafiq and Mursi after almost all votes were counted. A member of Shafiq's campaign also said Mursi and Shafiq were in the lead, but that counting was not complete.
Official results are not expected until Tuesday.
Aides to other candidates consistently put Mursi ahead but gave shifting tallies for second place through the night.
Egypt will elect a president before rewriting a post-Mubarak
constitution to define the powers of the head of state, parliament and other institutions. The army, bent on preserving its privileges and influence even after the promised handover, might want to curb the mandate of an Islamist president.
The Brotherhood's Guidance Office, its top body, was meeting to mull a campaign "to galvanise Islamists and Egyptian voters to face the bloc of the 'feloul'," a Brotherhood official said, using a scornful Arabic term for "remnants" of Mubarak's order.
TOUGH CHOICE
The Brotherhood, Egypt's most organised political group, has already secured the biggest bloc for its party in parliament after an earlier vote. Long repressed and banned under Mubarak, the 84-year-old Islamist group has a broad grassroots base.
Young Egyptian revolutionaries who helped topple Mubarak now face what they see as a dispiriting choice between a conservative Islamist and a hardline member of the old guard.
"To choose between Shafiq or Mursi is like being asked do you want to commit suicide by being set on fire or jump in a shark tank," Adel Abdel Ghafar wrote on Twitter, a networking tool used to devastating effect against Mubarak in the uprising.
Tareq Farouq, 34, a Cairo driver, said: "I'm in shock. How could this happen? The people don't want Mursi or Shafiq. We're sick of both. They are driving people back to Tahrir Square."
Many Christians, who form about a tenth of Egypt's 82 million people, complained of discrimination in Mubarak's day, but are likely to vote for Shafiq in preference to an Islamist.
The Brotherhood may be riding high, but to win the run-off it will need to woo the votes of other candidates such as its old adherent Abol Fotouh, who took 20 percent of the vote on an inclusive platform, according to the Brotherhood's count.
Two days of first-round voting went off calmly with polls closing on Thursday. Monitors reported no major infringements, although some candidates grumbled about their rivals' conduct.
The Brotherhood official, who asked not to be named, said that with votes counted from about 12,800 of the roughly 13,100 polling stations, Mursi had 25 percent, Shafiq 23 percent, Abol Fotouh 20 percent and leftist Hamdeen Sabahy 19 percent.
Election committee officials said late on Thursday that about half of Egypt's 50 million eligible voters had cast ballots. The Brotherhood official put the turnout at 40 percent.

[mhgaffney]

Ha, that's some funny shyt. I've been to a few middle saddened countries. You think we have poor class here. Poor in the US isn't shyt compared to poor over there.

I've been to India. I've seen the poverty of which you speak.

Nonetheless, the squalor of the Pine Ridge Indian reservation -- which I have also seen - is an indictment of America. There is no need for this kind of poverty in a nation as rich as we are.

Where is the moral strength and will to face our own social problems? You almost never see it on this board. Instead -- you see so many ugly faces -- why the world properly fears and despises us.

America = the graveyard of rainbows.

[Rohirrim]

Ha, that's some funny shyt. I've been to a few middle saddened countries. You think we have poor class here. Poor in the US isn't shyt compared to poor over there.

Don't worry. We'll keep working at it and we'll get there. :thumbs:

[Rohirrim]

I've been to India. I've seen the poverty of which you speak.

Nonetheless, the squalor of the Pine Ridge Indian reservation -- which I have also seen - is an indictment of America. There is no need for this kind of poverty in a nation as rich as we are.

Where is the moral strength and will to face our own social problems? You almost never see it on this board. Instead -- you see so many ugly faces -- why the world properly fears and despises us.

America = the graveyard of rainbows.

Unfortunately, everybody else in the world is lacking in your moral superiority. It's a shame, really.

[ant1999e]

I've been to India. I've seen the poverty of which you speak.

Nonetheless, the squalor of the Pine Ridge Indian reservation -- which I have also seen - is an indictment of America. There is no need for this kind of poverty in a nation as rich as we are.

Where is the moral strength and will to face our own social problems? You almost never see it on this board. Instead -- you see so many ugly faces -- why the world properly fears and despises us.

America = the graveyard of rainbows.

Do they not get money from the federal government? I've been on one reservation. It was.a.trash dump. Shytty azz houses and dirt roads. But everyone drove a nice car.

[sirhcyennek81]

Indian reservations are sovereign nations within the United States. You know that, don't you Gaff?


:Broncos:

[Requiem]

Do they not get money from the federal government? I've been on one reservation. It was.a.trash dump. Shytty azz houses and dirt roads. But everyone drove a nice car.

Getting money from the Federal Government doesn't mean anything. I've been to reservations all over the Dakota's because I grew up here and they are absolutely sad, horrendous places. We can do better than that. And the "Driving a nice car." thing doesn't apply to anything like you see where I am from. Not even close. The reservations are a complex thing and there are a lot of issues there, but we could do a better job. Easily.

[mhgaffney]

As I understand it -- the Bureau of Indian Affairs disperses the money that the tribes receive.

The BIA is reportedly one of the most corrupt agencies of the US gov't.

[Requiem]

Yeah, the BIA is one of the agencies they deal with.

[ant1999e]

Getting money from the Federal Government doesn't mean anything. I've been to reservations all over the Dakota's because I grew up here and they are absolutely sad, horrendous places. We can do better than that. And the "Driving a nice car." thing doesn't apply to anything like you see where I am from. Not even close. The reservations are a complex thing and there are a lot of issues there, but we could do a better job. Easily.

Like I said, I've only been on one. You probably know better than me.

[ant1999e]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/9353445/Egypts-hopes-betrayed.html

Pity those liberal, secularist Egyptians who drove the revolution that ousted Hosni Mubarak 16 months ago. Like a nut, they have been cracked between the military, who have dominated the country for the past 60 years, and the Muslim Brotherhood, who claim to be moderate, but whose ultimate goal remains the imposition of sharia.
Yesterday’s announcement of Mohammed Morsi’s victory in the presidential election results from a deal between the Freedom and Justice Party, the Brotherhood’s political arm, and the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces. Under it, the military will control internal security, defence and foreign policy, leaving domestic matters largely in Mr Morsi’s hands. For the moderates, this means the threat of repression on one hand and Islamicisation on the other.
At least the Brotherhood have a legitimate claim to power, after winning both parliamentary and presidential elections. By contrast, the military – in conjunction with the supreme court – has done all it can to retain its authority. On June 14, the court ruled that the electoral law was unconstitutional and that parliament, elected last year, should be dissolved. The SCAF then arrogated to themselves the right to legislate, and to select the body producing the new constitution.
The best that can be expected is that the rival ambitions of the two sides will ensure mutual constraint. But the reversal of the timetable for democratic transition by the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces is more likely to produce bitter frustration and possibly chaos, with competing centres of power strangling desperately needed attempts to revive Egypt’s economy. Whatever happens, the hopes raised by those heady weeks in Tahrir Square have been cruelly betrayed.

[ant1999e]

http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/new-egyptian-president-says-jihad-is-our-path/

Who is the new leader of Egypt? He’s an absolute disaster — an Islamic Radical who poses a grave threat to Israel, the U.S. and to the people of Egypt, especially the Christians of which there are about 2.5 million in Egypt. Here’s what Mohamed Morsy said at a speech at Cairo University in May: “The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal.” According to a Russian news service, Morsy also said, “Today we can establish Sharia law because our nation will acquire well-being only with Islam and Sharia. The Muslim Brothers and the Freedom and Justice Party will be the conductors of these goals.” Those quotes ought to provide insight into just how dangerous Morsy and the Muslim Brotherhood really are.

[barryr]

http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/new-egyptian-president-says-jihad-is-our-path/

Who is the new leader of Egypt? He’s an absolute disaster — an Islamic Radical who poses a grave threat to Israel, the U.S. and to the people of Egypt, especially the Christians of which there are about 2.5 million in Egypt. Here’s what Mohamed Morsy said at a speech at Cairo University in May: “The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal.” According to a Russian news service, Morsy also said, “Today we can establish Sharia law because our nation will acquire well-being only with Islam and Sharia. The Muslim Brothers and the Freedom and Justice Party will be the conductors of these goals.” Those quotes ought to provide insight into just how dangerous Morsy and the Muslim Brotherhood really are.

This is disturbing to say the least. This is not good news by any stretch.

[El Minion]

http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/new-egyptian-president-says-jihad-is-our-path/

Who is the new leader of Egypt? He’s an absolute disaster — an Islamic Radical who poses a grave threat to Israel, the U.S. and to the people of Egypt, especially the Christians of which there are about 2.5 million in Egypt. Here’s what Mohamed Morsy said at a speech at Cairo University in May: “The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal.” According to a Russian news service, Morsy also said, “Today we can establish Sharia law because our nation will acquire well-being only with Islam and Sharia. The Muslim Brothers and the Freedom and Justice Party will be the conductors of these goals.” Those quotes ought to provide insight into just how dangerous Morsy and the Muslim Brotherhood really are.

We have our own version here too! It is disturbing and not good news! Just look at their propaganda!

http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/images/image_map_images/one_nation_under_God.jpg

[peacepipe]

You have to wonder whether the population is ready for a free election with controlled and focused propaganda. Those sorts of environments are not truly free elections or democracies/republics. It will certainly be interesting to see how it pans out.sounds alot like our political system.

[mhgaffney]

http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/new-egyptian-president-says-jihad-is-our-path/

Who is the new leader of Egypt? He’s an absolute disaster — an Islamic Radical who poses a grave threat to Israel, the U.S. and to the people of Egypt, especially the Christians of which there are about 2.5 million in Egypt. Here’s what Mohamed Morsy said at a speech at Cairo University in May: “The Koran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader, jihad is our path and death in the name of Allah is our goal.” According to a Russian news service, Morsy also said, “Today we can establish Sharia law because our nation will acquire well-being only with Islam and Sharia. The Muslim Brothers and the Freedom and Justice Party will be the conductors of these goals.” Those quotes ought to provide insight into just how dangerous Morsy and the Muslim Brotherhood really are.

The line about "jihad" looks to have the traditional meaning -- which is not about war -- or terrorism.

Jihad means the spiritual path out of illusion to embrace the truth..

[ant1999e]

We have our own version here too! It is disturbing and not good news! Just look at their propaganda!

http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/images/image_map_images/one_nation_under_God.jpg

Typical response. Attack Christianity. It's no wonder why we can't have mature discussion here.
What do you have to say about The Muslim Brotherhood taking control of Egypt?

[orinjkrush]

The fact is that Islamic countries do a better job taking care of the poor, widows, the infirm, the hungry, and the disadvantaged than we do in the primarily Christian US.

At any rate -- those Islamic countries that have not been attacked, bombed, and militarily occupied by a western power do.

you're right Gaff. Islam has been bombed and attacked and occupied.

and for good damn reason. islam is a religion of vengeance and hatred and racism. (much like Christianity was before it started to grow the hell up.)

go live Islam for a while and report back.

[barryr]

Typical response. Attack Christianity. It's no wonder why we can't have mature discussion here.
What do you have to say about The Muslim Brotherhood taking control of Egypt?

Where are the other liberals to attack him for "not sticking to the subject." Ah, because even that they're hypocritical about.

[orinjkrush]

As I understand it -- the Bureau of Indian Affairs disperses the money that the tribes receive.

The BIA is reportedly one of the most corrupt agencies of the US gov't.

dude, corrupt? no... incompetent, probably. remember the politicos from Jackson on down have ****ed native americans time and time again. they're the north american Poles of the world.

[Bronco Yoda]

This should do wonders for tourism.

[lonestar]

The line about "jihad" looks to have the traditional meaning -- which is not about war -- or terrorism.

Jihad means the spiritual path out of illusion to embrace the truth..

ji·had
   
noun
1.
a holy war undertaken as a sacred duty by Muslims.
2. any vigorous, emotional crusade for an idea or principle.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Jihad?s=t&ld=1032


But good try..

[pricejj]

Egypt is 94.7% muslim, yet some here have a problem that they elected a muslim leader?

There are 49 majority muslim countries in the world (about 25% of all countries). With 91.2% of North Africa and the Middle East being muslim. They are going to have muslim leaders, with legitimate muslim governments. It has been the U.S. foreign policy to destabilize every single legitimate muslim government it possibly can. Costing millions of innocent lives, and accomplishing nothing, except death and destruction.

It seems you would rather the U.S. placed another warlord in power? (It remains to be seen if Morsi is just another puppet)

Muslim people are naturally peaceful, productive, and easy going. They deserve to live in peace, as they wish, just like everybody else.

[Garcia Bronco]

Sounds like they need US intervention.

[El Minion]

Typical response. Attack Christianity. It's no wonder why we can't have mature discussion here.
What do you have to say about The Muslim Brotherhood taking control of Egypt?

The same about evangelical Christians, which they keep wanting to arrest any societal progress. Especially their unhealthy and unnatural obsession with controlling sex and women.

Muslim Brotherhood=evangelical Christians

http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1010/the-separation-of-church-and-state-church-political-poster-1288401218.jpg

[sirhcyennek81]

The same about evangelical Christians, which they keep wanting to arrest any societal progress. Especially their unhealthy and unnatural obsession with controlling sex and women.

Muslim Brotherhood=evangelical Christians

http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1010/the-separation-of-church-and-state-church-political-poster-1288401218.jpg


Jefferson was referencing congress in a letter that quote comes from. At the federal level, government would not endorse or deny any religion as the state religion. That, like many things, was a power reserved for individual states.

At any rate, I dont care if a majority muslim country elects a muslim leader. The idea that this new egyptian president seems so cozy with fanaticism and the destruction of the Israeli state is what concerns me.

:Broncos:

[ant1999e]

The same about evangelical Christians, which they keep wanting to arrest any societal progress. Especially their unhealthy and unnatural obsession with controlling sex and women.

Muslim Brotherhood=evangelical Christians

http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1010/the-separation-of-church-and-state-church-political-poster-1288401218.jpg

Comparing evangelical Christians to Muslims who want to implement Sharia law is just silly. Although both may be extreme, the level that Sharia oppresses its peopel dwarfs the other.

[BroncoBeavis]

The same about evangelical Christians, which they keep wanting to arrest any societal progress. Especially their unhealthy and unnatural obsession with controlling sex and women.

Muslim Brotherhood=evangelical Christians

http://www.politifake.org/image/political/1010/the-separation-of-church-and-state-church-political-poster-1288401218.jpg

"from the one of the Constitution's greatest contributors"

What are these guys smokin? The guy wasn't even in the country when it was written. LOL

[pricejj]

Comparing evangelical Christians to Muslims who want to implement Sharia law is just silly. Although both may be extreme, the level that Sharia oppresses its peopel dwarfs the other.

If Sharia law opresses people (as you claim), why do muslims prefer to be governed that way?

1. Peace and harmony are most treasured.

2. Women are have equal rights to men (and are given preference).

3. Legal matters are clear and concise, with no ambiguity.

4. Divorce is reviled, but allowed.

5. Upon a family members death, estates are divided according to a specific formula that never changes, and cannot be haggled over.

5. Adultery is strictly forbidden. However, being easy on offenders is encouraged in the Quran.

6. It is taught that Christians and Jews are closest to Muslim people...like brothers and sisters.

7. One needs to pay for a business transaction at the time of purchase, taking interest is not recommended (which is where the root of humanities problems exist today).

8. Giving of charity is of utmost importance.

9. Bee-keeper attire (for women) is not taught in the Quran. It is recommended that everybody covers their privates, and most of their skin. There is no distinction given to any style of clothes.

10. Tolerance is a central tenet of Islamic teaching.


Islam teaches freedom, independence, equal rights, charity and peace...everything that U.S. citizens hold dearest to our hearts.

Just because you have been taught to hate Islam for the past 15 years, doesn't mean that's how it's supposed to be. Before 9/11, Americans had no opinion towards Islam.

[sirhcyennek81]

If Sharia law opresses people (as you claim), why do muslims prefer to be governed that way?

1. Peace and harmony are most treasured.

2. Women are have equal rights to men (and are given preference).

3. Legal matters are clear and concise, with no ambiguity.

4. Divorce is reviled, but allowed.

5. Upon a family members death, estates are divided according to a specific formula that never changes, and cannot be haggled over.

5. Adultery is strictly forbidden. However, being easy on offenders is encouraged in the Quran.

6. It is taught that Christians and Jews are closest to Muslim people...like brothers and sisters.

7. One needs to pay for a business transaction at the time of purchase, taking interest is not recommended (which is where the root of humanities problems exist today).

8. Giving of charity is of utmost importance.

9. Bee-keeper attire (for women) is not taught in the Quran. It is recommended that everybody covers their privates, and most of their skin. There is no distinction given to any style of clothes.

10. Tolerance is a central tenet of Islamic teaching.


Islam teaches freedom, independence, equal rights, charity and peace...everything that U.S. citizens hold dearest to our hearts.

Just because you have been taught to hate Islam for the past 15 years, doesn't mean that's how it's supposed to be. Before 9/11, Americans had no opinion towards Islam.

Iran, a state dominated by sharia law, completely contradicts every single thing you just said.

:Broncos:

[El Minion]

"from the one of the Constitution's greatest contributors"

What are these guys smokin? The guy wasn't even in the country when it was written. LOL

By that reasoning, the bible should dismissed outright because none of the principals, especially Jesus, where around when it was written. The bible is all hearsay! At least Jefferson wrote down his thoughts, ideas and the Deceleration of Independence and was a contemporary of his fellow Founding Fathers. And we all know, or should know, what Jefferson thought of the bible, he neutered it!

[BroncoBeavis]

By that reasoning, the bible should dismissed outright because none of the principals, especially Jesus, where around when it was written. The bible is all hearsay! At least Jefferson wrote down his thoughts, ideas and the Deceleration of Independence and was a contemporary of his fellow Founding Fathers. And we all know, or should know, what Jefferson thought of the bible, he neutered it!

"Deceleration of Independence" That's profound. Accidental but profound. :)

The point is Jefferson wasn't a principle in the development of the Constitution. He wrote none of it and didn't even support its final ratification.

He and Madison were of a similar mind concerning religious freedom, but as far as the first amendment, you have James Madison to thank 100x more than Thomas Jefferson.

The reason some people like to highlight Jefferson so much is that the extra-constitutional "Wall of Separation" language he once used (ironically in a letter to a Baptist minister) is far more useful to some secular ends.

[mhgaffney]

Iran, a state dominated by sharia law, completely contradicts every single thing you just said.

:Broncos:

No, sorry.

Iran was a secular democracy in 1953 -- and was pro western -- that is, until the UK and John Foster/Allen Dulles decided to effect regime change.

The US CIA staged a coup, arrested and incarcerated the popular democratically elected leader, Mossadegh, and installed a dictator in his place.

I refer to the Shah. The US CIA also armed and trained the Shah's secret police to crush any and all dissent.

The result -- a popular revolution -- was entirely predictable. Yet, incredibly, the CIA failed to anticipate it. Incidentally, this tells us everything we need to know about the CIA.

Also -- no surprise, this deal with the devil has spawned distrust and fear of the US throughout the region.

Notably, to this day, the US continues to support tyranny in countries in the neighborhood, i.e., Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the Gulf states.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

"Deceleration of Independence" That's profound. Accidental but profound. :)

The point is Jefferson wasn't a principle(sic) in the development of the Constitution....

Irony alert. Ha!

[Boomhauer]

http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/images/image_map_images/one_nation_under_God.jpg

Quite a vivid image if you look closely, but also quite political. Basic message is everyone throughout US history and all walks of life stand with the Founding Documents and Jesus, except for the group in the lower right corner that have turned on their fellow man and country. The great leaders of America's past appear to be pleading them to recognize.
This group includes a money-counter, reporter, Justice, some old whitey suit, what looks like a gay couple holding the Communist manifesto and a pregnant woman (the mother and child are opposite, praising the US and Jesus). Barely visible along the edge next to the gay couple and gazing upon this group is Death.

[Boomhauer]

... At least Jefferson wrote down his thoughts, ideas and the Deceleration of Independence and was a contemporary of his fellow Founding Fathers...

Jefferson didn't author the Declaration of Independance. Thomas Paine (a Brit, activist and author) did than the Founders made a few minor tweaks and put Jefferson's name and persona behind it.
Paine also helped sway public opinion in the runup to Declaration with his book Common Sense and ongoing sparring called the Forester Papers. (These papers may not have been what they seem in the same way Galileo published a false discourse to argue for heliocentrism.)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Jefferson didn't author the Declaration of Independance. Thomas Paine (a Brit, activist and author) did than the Founders made a few minor tweaks and put Jefferson's name and persona behind it.
Paine also helped sway public opinion in the runup to Declaration with his book Common Sense and ongoing sparring called the Forester Papers. (These papers may not have been what they seem in the same way Galileo published a false discourse to argue for heliocentrism.)

::)

Proving once again you don't know sh*t from Shinola...

Although we know Thomas Jefferson as the true author, the Second Continental Congress initially appointed five people to draw up a declaration. The committee included Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, Roger Sherman, Robert Livingston and Thomas Jefferson. Jefferson was then given the task of writing a draft for the Declaration of Independence, which from June 11 to June 28 he worked on. Before he presented the Declaration to the Continental Congress, he showed it to John Adams and Benjamin Franklin; they made revisions. He presented the draft to Congress on July 1, 1776 and more revisions were made. On the fourth of July the delegates met in what we know today as Independence Hall, but back then was known as the Pennsylvania State House, and approved the Declaration. John Hancock, the President of the Continental Congress signed the declaration along with Charles Thomson and it was sent to John Dunlap’s print shop for printing.

[Boomhauer]

^^^ I also learned that in 1st grade, but "education" is more than being spoon fed and beyond the remedial.