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View Full Version : Would any of the football minds explain what's special about a JDR gameplan?


ozomulsion
05-18-2012, 04:13 PM
Kinda like when we had Nolan, and we knew that free man would be coming from somewhere we didn't expext, and smash the QB. The kind of thing we've come to not expect from several of our past DC's.

DivineLegion
05-19-2012, 09:02 AM
It's a two gap 4-3 scheme where both DTs line up in front of the OGs, and the ends are just outside of the Tackles outside shoulder. It's a very straight up approach to attacking the offense with less overload philosophy, though it does allow for variable tactics. The Sam is responsible for the TE, either as a blocker or a receiver, and the MLB controls the A gap. If the TE stays in to block, the Sam rushes the passer i.e. Von Miller (though I think this might be a better position for DJ or Tarvathian if DJ is suspended). Denver's lack of depth at the NT position acctally fits this scheme better than the over we played last year, and allows the DTs more head on matches.

ozomulsion
05-19-2012, 01:24 PM
Thanks DL. I was hoping for a D that would be a little more intricate than that. I kinda like some over load blitz schemes.

Not many people seem to know much about the JDR scheme. Does he use very press coverage very often, mainly off, or mix it up?

We know Champ doesn't press, but I sure do hope they move him around a little bit.

peacepipe
05-19-2012, 01:30 PM
I wish we still had nolan, IMO,we're better suited for a 3-4.

DENVERDUI55
05-19-2012, 01:33 PM
It's a two gap 4-3 scheme where both DTs line up in front of the OGs, and the ends are just outside of the Tackles outside shoulder. It's a very straight up approach to attacking the offense with less overload philosophy, though it does allow for variable tactics. The Sam is responsible for the TE, either as a blocker or a receiver, and the MLB controls the A gap. If the TE stays in to block, the Sam rushes the passer i.e. Von Miller (though I think this might be a better position for DJ or Tarvathian if DJ is suspended). Denver's lack of depth at the NT position acctally fits this scheme better than the over we played last year, and allows the DTs more head on matches.

Actually Del Rio never played a 2 gap scheme. He always played an attacking 1 gap scheme. Yes he did have to big slob DT's in Henderson and Stroud but they did play 1 gap.

lonestar
05-19-2012, 02:06 PM
Thanks DL. I was hoping for a D that would be a little more intricate than that. I kinda like some over load blitz schemes.

Not many people seem to know much about the JDR scheme. Does he use very press coverage very often, mainly off, or mix it up?

We know Champ doesn't press, but I sure do hope they move him around a little bit.

if you live by the blitz you die against the blitz by the better QB's, manning being the prime example..

LongDongJohnson
05-19-2012, 02:42 PM
Actually Del Rio never played a 2 gap scheme. He always played an attacking 1 gap scheme. Yes he did have to big slob DT's in Henderson and Stroud but they did play 1 gap.

Thats what I was just about to say. Fox and jdr prefer their defense to play 1 gap.

NorCalBronco7
05-19-2012, 03:30 PM
Del Rio and Fox perfer one gap schemes. They want to create pressure with as little rushers as possible (which is why the 335 and similar sets show up on third down).

Although its called by many as an attacking scheme, its at the heart a "bend but dont break" defense.

pricejj
05-19-2012, 04:35 PM
I wish we still had nolan, IMO,we're better suited for a 3-4.

Exactly. We are an NT away from a killer 3-4.

lonestar
05-19-2012, 05:05 PM
Exactly. We are an NT away from a killer 3-4.

BUT we will not go down that road again with Elway and Fox in charge..

SO time to move on.. and It really would be one killer NT and another damned good one for rotational relief.. otherwise your screwed at Mile High

Gort
05-19-2012, 07:46 PM
Kinda like when we had Nolan, and we knew that free man would be coming from somewhere we didn't expext, and smash the QB. The kind of thing we've come to not expect from several of our past DC's.

his novel use of blitzing unicorns makes it kinda special, right? ???

http://unicorns.com/images/products/unicorn-puzzle.jpg

Bmore Manning
05-19-2012, 08:40 PM
Actually Del Rio never played a 2 gap scheme. He always played an attacking 1 gap scheme. Yes he did have to big slob DT's in Henderson and Stroud but they did play 1 gap.

That's not true sir. Del Rio requested two NTs for Ray Lewis in Baltimore. Goose and Sam Adams. In the beginning in JAX he had Stroud and Henderson. Both had two gap NTs from both DTs. He evolved in JAX to accommodate for the changing passing league and used a gap shooter.

I think even though Denver is going to stay in the 4-3, they have perfect personnel for the 3-4 minus the NT. Maybe we will see some 3-4 looks.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
05-19-2012, 09:23 PM
That's not true sir. Del Rio requested two NTs for Ray Lewis in Baltimore. Goose and Sam Adams. In the beginning in JAX he had Stroud and Henderson. Both had two gap NTs from both DTs. He evolved in JAX to accommodate for the changing passing league and used a gap shooter.

I think even though Denver is going to stay in the 4-3, they have perfect personnel for the 3-4 minus the NT. Maybe we will see some 3-4 looks.

You mean when he was LB coach for the ratbirds?

DivineLegion
05-19-2012, 11:45 PM
Actually Del Rio never played a 2 gap scheme. He always played an attacking 1 gap scheme. Yes he did have to big slob DT's in Henderson and Stroud but they did play 1 gap.

I've read numerous places that JDR used a two gap as his base set, and remains one of the only coaches in the NFL to do so. The information I read could be wrong, or in the case of another posters response outdated. From what I've seen watching the Jaguars (which isn't very often) I saw multiple looks including some two gaping, and assumed the analysis I was reading was correct. I'll have to watch some Jags games and get caught up.

DivineLegion
05-20-2012, 12:00 AM
Ok, I've watched a little bit of the highlights from the Saints Jaguars game (Jags D gave up 500 yards of offense in this game), and started watching the whole Broncos Jaguars game from 2010. Your right the Jaguars do use a lot of unbalanced fronts, but they do 2 gap. Another interesting not JDRs defenses use a 3-3 Nickle front.

cutthemdown
05-20-2012, 01:17 AM
Exactly. We are an NT away from a killer 3-4.

No way. The team way better suited to 4-3. Not enough inside linebackers for a 3-4. You need 3 really good ones. Also Miller IMO, although mentioned as a great fit for a 3-4 isn't super versatile yet. Hes just as good rushing the passer from a 4-3 as he would be in a 3-4 standing up more. Doom may be better in a 3-4. DJ williams useless in a 3-4. He can't play outside in a 3-4, and his inside block shedding skills leave a lot to be desired. He's a space player, not an inside player.

Our dends are a little too small for a 3-4 also IMO. Ayers a 4-3 end. Only Warren at DE really fits.

cutthemdown
05-20-2012, 01:20 AM
I think it's more like we a are a stud middle linebacker away from a killer 4-3. Put someone like Al Wilson on this defense and it would take off. Right now we blame the inside dline, but really our linebackers have stunk at being physical in the hole. Rbs, Fbs, all block them IMO. A guy like Wilson gets into the holes just a tad faster. Just being further into the hole when the backer takes on the lead blocker makes a huge difference. It screws up the olines flow, it makes RB have less angles to the other holes.

pricejj
05-20-2012, 01:26 AM
No way. The team way better suited to 4-3. Not enough inside linebackers for a 3-4. You need 3 really good ones. Also Miller IMO, although mentioned as a great fit for a 3-4 isn't super versatile yet. Hes just as good rushing the passer from a 4-3 as he would be in a 3-4 standing up more. Doom may be better in a 3-4. DJ williams useless in a 3-4. He can't play outside in a 3-4, and his inside block shedding skills leave a lot to be desired. He's a space player, not an inside player.

Our dends are a little too small for a 3-4 also IMO. Ayers a 4-3 end. Only Warren at DE really fits.

1. Both Warren and Wolfe would be great 3-4 DE's
2. Dumervil and Miller OLB's (probably 15 sacks each)
3. DJ and Ayers ILB's
4. Need an NT (no matter what front we have)

I fully realize that as long as Fox is the Head Coach, the Broncos will be running a 4-3.


I think it's more like we a are a stud middle linebacker away from a killer 4-3. Put someone like Al Wilson on this defense and it would take off.

I agree.

cutthemdown
05-20-2012, 01:39 AM
1. Both Warren and Wolfe would be great 3-4 DE's
2. Dumervil and Miller OLB's (probably 15 sacks each)
3. DJ and Ayers ILB's
4. Need an NT (no matter what front we have)

I fully realize that as long as Fox is the Head Coach, the Broncos will be running a 4-3.




I agree.

Sorry but when i read Ayers at linebacker its hard for me to take you seriously. Was that a mistake? Most likely in a 3-4, with good players, Ayers get lets go, DJ is gone. Not saying some of the guys couldnt play in a 3-4, i am saying that your statement we are a NT away from a great 3-4 isn't right.

Put a stud MLB and it would be a better 4-3, then a NT would make your 3-4.

pricejj
05-20-2012, 01:53 AM
Sorry but when i read Ayers at linebacker its hard for me to take you seriously. Was that a mistake? Most likely in a 3-4, with good players, Ayers get lets go, DJ is gone. Not saying some of the guys couldnt play in a 3-4, i am saying that your statement we are a NT away from a great 3-4 isn't right.

Put a stud MLB and it would be a better 4-3, then a NT would make your 3-4.

Yeah, Ayers was a bit of a stretch...

Bmore Manning
05-20-2012, 05:51 AM
You mean when he was LB coach for the ratbirds?

This is correct, I didn't call him the Ravens DC, in fact on this site I corrected someone who called him the Ravens S&C coach. He requested 2 NTs in a two gap scheme to protect a much smaller and dare I say undersized Ray Lewis. It was more if a running league at the time. He took that same scheme to JAX.

Bmore Manning
05-20-2012, 05:54 AM
I've read numerous places that JDR used a two gap as his base set, and remains one of the only coaches in the NFL to do so. The information I read could be wrong, or in the case of another posters response outdated. From what I've seen watching the Jaguars (which isn't very often) I saw multiple looks including some two gaping, and assumed the analysis I was reading was correct. I'll have to watch some Jags games and get caught up.

Yes I posted that on here when I first joined, and linked the article. Del Rio used to two gap as he took that with him from Baltimore. He did evolve in Jacksonville to a one gap UT, but like any good coach, he adapted to the NFL evolving.

lolcopter
05-20-2012, 05:56 AM
Agree with cutthemdown

DENVERDUI55
05-20-2012, 08:16 AM
Yes I posted that on here when I first joined, and linked the article. Del Rio used to two gap as he took that with him from Baltimore. He did evolve in Jacksonville to a one gap UT, but like any good coach, he adapted to the NFL evolving.

You posted one article that was more of a blog. Can you post them again?

Bmore Manning
05-20-2012, 08:55 AM
You posted one article that was more of a blog. Can you post them again?

Ravens
http://docs.docstoc.com/pdf/262256/f8aaa8e2-bcfc-4be6-9bad-71143b3ee86a.pdf

Jags
http://m.jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2009-08-13/story/jaguars_defense_to_have_new_look

ColoradoDarin
05-20-2012, 09:01 AM
Yeah, Ayers was a bit of a stretch...

Mays, as much as he sucks as a 4-3 MLB, is decent enough to be a starter as a 3-4 ILB (for given values of "decent"). He'd still be the weakest link in the front 7. Ayers doesn't fit anywhere in a 3-4 scheme.

We probably still have more pieces that are a better fit for the 43 and I'd rather find a good MLB (or hope the NCST kid works out) than try to switch schemes yet again.

Bmore Manning
05-20-2012, 09:14 AM
Mays, as much as he sucks as a 4-3 MLB, is decent enough to be a starter as a 3-4 ILB (for given values of "decent"). He'd still be the weakest link in the front 7. Ayers doesn't fit anywhere in a 3-4 scheme.

We probably still have more pieces that are a better fit for the 43 and I'd rather find a good MLB (or hope the NCST kid works out) than try to switch schemes yet again.

They aren't going to change to a 3-4 or they would have drafted Hightower as the other ILB. But personnel wise, minus the NT, I think Denver coud pull it off.

Warren DE, NT, Wolfe DE
Doom OLB, Irving ILB, Mays ILB, Miller OLB

Plenty of depth in the from 7.. Minus NT
DE- Jackson, Bannan, Vickerson, Garland
NT- Siliga....
Rush OLB- Hunter
Coverage LB- DJ, Woodyard, Trevathan
ILB- Franklin, DJ

I think it would enhance Denver.. Doom and Miller are prefect 3-4 OLBs. The DE's are deep and solid. MLB has options, as I think Mays is better suited for the 3-4. They are gonna stay in the 4-3, and that's fine.. Both schemes need a better NT.

Lestat
05-20-2012, 09:35 AM
our LB depth isn't good enough to run a legit 3-4 and succeed. we already know Ayers is not really suited for it and has had his best years as a DE who can slide down into DT at times.

your LB's have to be a big time strength. they need coverage skills, pash rushing skills and athletic ability to be flexible from down to down. DJ is probably our best pure LB, Mays is a tackling machine but his angles are poor and his coverage is worse. Miller is a work in progress at LB from a coverage standpoint and Doom is a DE that needs to play DE.
your NT has to be nearly dominant to occupy blockers and eat up space. we don't have that.

we need to be nowhere near a 3-4 defense except on certain downs to get specific personnel on the field and change match ups. similar to what we did last season under Allen.