PDA

View Full Version : New Broncos Coordinator Jack Del Rio says Denver Expects to have a Top-10 Defense


Pages : [1] 2

Bronco Rob
05-18-2012, 01:38 PM
New Broncos Coordinator Jack Del Rio says Denver Expects to have a Top-10 Defense


May 18, 2012 – 7:15 am by Brad Gagnon


Jack Del Rio is a defensive coordinator again, and in Denver he has two pretty awesome pass-rushing toys at his disposal — Von Miller and Elvis Dumervil. Del Rio also isn’t complaining about the addition of Peyton Manning, who should help keep pressure off of his young defense.

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa444/Paxil_Rose/jack1.jpg


Jack Del Rio joined Evans and Klatt on KKFN in Denver to talk about his new role as defensive coordinator with the Broncos, his expectations for next season, what he wants to see improve and the dynamic of coaching the defense of a team that has Peyton Manning on offense.


On if he views this job as a stopgap between head-coaching gigs:

“Obviously I was a head coach for a good part of the last nine years, and maybe some day again, but right now my focus is entirely on helping this defense and helping this organization win football games.”


On what he expects from this defense:

“We’re looking for guys who are gonna give it up for us and give it up for each other and we’re gonna build that mentality every day in practice. So that process has begun. We’ve established high expectations, we expect to be a top-10, if not better, defense. We’ve got a lot of work to do to get there but that’s what our goals are.”


On the areas he feels they need to improve the most:

“The areas we were good at last year we want to build on. Getting off on third down was a strength of this defense for sure. But at the end of the day, it was 24th in points allowed, 20th in yards allowed, and those aren’t numbers that we’re looking for. So we gotta do some work up front, making sure that we can keep people from running it down our throats a little bit. We gave up too many explosive plays in the run and the pass game. I think tackling, and understanding how we fit things, and a mixture of some of the coverage elements that we’ll bring should help us do those things. But again, it goes back to 11 men that know what they’re doing that are going hard together, and when you create that kind of mentality you can play really good defense.”


On how having Peyton Manning on offense changes things for his defense:

“With Peyton you’ve gotta be able to play with a lead. And that’s one of the things I think we can do with the strength of our pass rushers. We’ve got — if you looked at the strength of our defense right now it’d be Von Miller and Elvis Dumervil coming off the edges. And we worked hard to fortify the back end a little bit with some of the additions throughout the free agency and draft process. So that should remain a strength. I think the one thing that we tried to do when we go up against Peyton is limit his snaps, and limit his exposure. So we would try and run the ball right at the Colts and try and take away time of possession. And that’ll be something that we can’t allow to happen. Defensively we’ve gotta be able to get people stopped and not let them just run it down the field and control the clock.”





http://sportsradiointerviews.com/2012/05/18/jack-del-rio-denver-broncos-defense-peyton-manning/

oubronco
05-18-2012, 01:48 PM
I think tackling, and understanding how we fit things, and a mixture of some of the coverage elements that we’ll bring should help us do those things.


It's about time we had an DC that expressed tackling

Bmore Manning
05-18-2012, 01:55 PM
Love it! Exactly what I expected, big things from this team!

RaiderH8r
05-18-2012, 01:55 PM
I expect Denver to have a top 10 defense every year.

Smiling Assassin27
05-18-2012, 01:57 PM
i wonder if he's at all concerned about the interior DL.

PRBronco
05-18-2012, 01:58 PM
Re: Playing with a lead:
I hope his strategy is not to rush 2 men and sit 9 back in "prevent" ><

24champ
05-18-2012, 02:02 PM
It's about time we had an DC that expressed tackling

I think (tackling and missed assignments) are the two primary things, Allen said when asked what the defense needed to improve. When you go back and you look at the tape, we made a lot of mistakes defensively.


I am sure I could find quotes from Slowik, Nolan, Bates etc. on tackling.

Requiem
05-18-2012, 02:05 PM
I am so excited for this season.

oubronco
05-18-2012, 02:06 PM
I am sure I could find quotes from Slowik, Nolan, Bates etc. on tackling.

Apparently they sucked at teaching them how to do it then

houghtam
05-18-2012, 02:22 PM
Yawn. I'll believe it when I see it. Or rather, DON'T see 4 missed tackles on the same play, followed by a sea of backs of defenders' jerseys.

Cito Pelon
05-18-2012, 02:47 PM
“The areas we were good at last year we want to build on. Getting off on third down was a strength of this defense for sure. But at the end of the day, it was 24th in points allowed, 20th in yards allowed, and those aren’t numbers that we’re looking for. So we gotta do some work up front, making sure that we can keep people from running it down our throats a little bit. We gave up too many explosive plays in the run and the pass game.

Meh, we'll see. Maybe JDR will be the guy that actually stops the 20+, 30+, 40+ yd plays. Denver has been one of the worst in those categories for about 10 years. I'm not at all sure how they're gonna limit those "explosive plays" with basically the same front seven in terms of actual on-field ability. They must be counting on Wolfe a lot to provide some disruption. Hopefully, dumping Goodman has to count to eliminate a few explosive plays, not only in the passing D, but the rush D also.

Well, maybe they'll get a little bit better. Also, seems like JDR will surely be looking to be an HC again.

AboveAverage
05-18-2012, 03:15 PM
Yeah but will he let the dogs loose?

Lolad
05-18-2012, 03:22 PM
Fluff puff pass, a good indicator of a good defense is stopping the run and preventing explosive plays. I hope after all these years we make that step

DBroncos4life
05-18-2012, 03:25 PM
I think getting Del Rio was the second best thing to happen this off season by a large margin.

DENVERDUI55
05-18-2012, 03:28 PM
At least he didn't say "We plan on turning the DL loose!"

Agamemnon
05-18-2012, 03:37 PM
With the overall talent level of our defense and the difficulty of our upcoming schedule, a top 10 ranking would nothing short of a miracle. That said, if Del Rio can somehow pull it off I'll be ecstatic.

Truth be told, this is likely what it will take for the Broncos to really win a Super Bowl with Manning.

Shananahan
05-18-2012, 03:41 PM
I keep waiting for the fluff piece where the new defensive coordinator says, "We shooting for middle-of-the-road."

houghtam
05-18-2012, 04:06 PM
I keep waiting for the fluff piece where the new defensive coordinator says, "We shooting for middle-of-the-road."

"Hey Erin, welcome to our facility. We're glad you're doing this segment on the re-tooled Broncos defense! Okay, so you'll notice the first thing you see upon entering the complex is our motivational banner which reads, "FAILURE IS AN OPTION." Yeeeeah...we like to keep the mood light around here. Okay, so over here, we've replaced the tackling dummies with funhouse mirrors, where the players can look into them and see the player they truly want to become. Plus it's fun for them to see themselves in all different kinds of shapes and sizes, am I right? Can you imagine what Ty Warren would look like if he were 3 feet tall and 600 lbs? That's funny right there! --"

"Coach, what are your goals for this season?"

"I'd like to lose 10 pounds, shorten up my golf swing, and...oh you mean the team? Yeah, we're hoping for bottom third. That way, if you end up in the middle of the pack, you look like a GOD. And let's face it, Denver hasn't exactly been a model of defensive prowess over the past few decades, know what I'm saying?"

Kaylore
05-18-2012, 04:43 PM
With the overall talent level of our defense and the difficulty of our upcoming schedule, a top 10 ranking would nothing short of a miracle. That said, if Del Rio can somehow pull it off I'll be ecstatic.

Truth be told, this is likely what it will take for the Broncos to really win a Super Bowl with Manning.

Not Really. You only need to have either your offense or defense in the top ten. Both is unnecessary and (and frankly unrealistic). The other can unit can be as low as in the bottom third of the league and you can still win the whole shabang, including three of the last four champions.

Going back the last 13 years,

Year Team OFF DEF(points)

99 Ravens 14 - 1
00 Rams 1 - 4
01 Patriots 6 - 6
02 Buccaneers 18 - 1
03 Patriots 12 - 1
04 Patriots 4 - 2
05 Steelers 9 - 3
06 Colts 2 - 23
07 Giants 14 - 17
08 Steelers 20 - 1
09 Saints 1 - 20
10 Packers 10 - 2
11 Giants 9 - 25

Bronco Rob
05-18-2012, 05:11 PM
In his career, quarterback Peyton Manning has averaged 26 points a game. During his ten-year head coaching career, John Fox is 39-3 when his team has scored 26 or more points a game.



:thumbs:

StugotsIII
05-18-2012, 05:13 PM
What is he supposed to say:

Jack Del Rio says "Denver Expects to have a Top-32 Defense"

CEH
05-18-2012, 05:21 PM
PMF

KipCorrington25
05-18-2012, 05:27 PM
I keep waiting for the fluff piece where the new defensive coordinator says, "We shooting for middle-of-the-road."

No, those are the Colorado Rockies interviews. :gus:

NorCalBronco7
05-18-2012, 05:35 PM
I think getting Del Rio was the second best thing to happen this off season by a large margin.

Yup. Such a great signing.

I could see the Broncos being a top 10 defense this season. The DTs and safties will need to step up, but I think the talent level is there.

pricejj
05-18-2012, 05:48 PM
Not Really. You only need to have either your offense or defense in the top ten. Both is unnecessary and (and frankly unrealistic). The other can unit can be as low as in the bottom third of the league and you can still win the whole shabang, including three of the last four champions.

Going back the last 13 years,

Year Team OFF DEF(points)

99 Ravens 14 - 1
00 Rams 1 - 4
01 Patriots 6 - 6
02 Buccaneers 18 - 1
03 Patriots 12 - 1
04 Patriots 4 - 2
05 Steelers 9 - 3
06 Colts 2 - 23
07 Giants 14 - 17
08 Steelers 20 - 1
09 Saints 1 - 20
10 Packers 10 - 2
11 Giants 9 - 25

Judging by the Colt's Offensive Scoring Rank over Manning's last 10 years, I would say we're looking pretty good:

2010 - 4
2009 - 7
2008 - 13
2007 - 3
2006 - 2
2005 - 2
2004 - 1
2003 - 2
2002 - 17
2001 - 2

Archer81
05-18-2012, 05:56 PM
I dont care about having a top 10 defense. I want turnovers and stops on 3rd down. Especially turnovers, considering who our QB is.

:Broncos:

gyldenlove
05-18-2012, 06:26 PM
I dont care about having a top 10 defense. I want turnovers and stops on 3rd down. Especially turnovers, considering who our QB is.

:Broncos:

I want a defense that pushes Phyllis Rivers **** in - really hard. I hate that douchetard.

If we only get 20 sacks and 5 turnovers all season I hope they all come agains the piss chuggers.

baja
05-18-2012, 06:38 PM
I want a defense that pushes Phyllis Rivers **** in - really hard. I hate that douchetard.

If we only get 20 sacks and 5 turnovers all season I hope they all come agains the piss chuggers.

Wow! Did you get the same computer virus that Old Dude did last week. ;D

maher_tyler
05-18-2012, 06:45 PM
I want a defense that pushes Phyllis Rivers **** in - really hard. I hate that douchetard.

If we only get 20 sacks and 5 turnovers all season I hope they all come agains the piss chuggers.

I want a D that can stop the run, create turnovers and get off the field on 3rd down! Tired of watching DMC run up and down the field on us...or any team with a decent rushing attack. Big plays from Goodman or safeties being out of position can go to..we know one is gone, can we count on our safeties??

Bmore Manning
05-18-2012, 06:53 PM
I think getting Del Rio was the second best thing to happen this off season by a large margin.

This^

Lestat
05-18-2012, 08:32 PM
it's gonna be tough to be top 10. Wolfe will have to be a near all pro,Warren as well and Moore has to be the starter as well as exceptionally good.
even then MLB still scares me.

lonestar
05-18-2012, 09:02 PM
Not Really. You only need to have either your offense or defense in the top ten. Both is unnecessary and (and frankly unrealistic). The other can unit can be as low as in the bottom third of the league and you can still win the whole shabang, including three of the last four champions.

Going back the last 13 years,

Year Team OFF DEF(points)

99 Ravens 14 - 1
00 Rams 1 - 4
01 Patriots 6 - 6
02 Buccaneers 18 - 1
03 Patriots 12 - 1
04 Patriots 4 - 2
05 Steelers 9 - 3
06 Colts 2 - 23
07 Giants 14 - 17
08 Steelers 20 - 1
09 Saints 1 - 20
10 Packers 10 - 2
11 Giants 9 - 25

Good research but IMO they go hand it hand. a great O begets a much better D and vice versa..

Give me two top fifteens and I suspect that we will be in the hunt..

two top tens and really good things happen..

It has been almost forever that we have had a DC that knew his ass from his hat..

I do not remember that last one, maybe the leader of the orange crush?

That is going back a long time..

Lets hope that JDR is around for a few years..

lonestar
05-18-2012, 09:06 PM
it's gonna be tough to be top 10. Wolfe will have to be a near all pro,Warren as well and Moore has to be the starter as well as exceptionally good. even then MLB still scares me.

Lots of folks in the know like our MLB

AS for Wolfe he just needs to be consistent and everyone around him gets better..
When he comes off for a breather his replacement has to do the same..

Manning should make the D better by giving them longer bench time and forcing the other team to score more.. Playing from behind tends to make for loads of turnovers, sacks..

Agamemnon
05-18-2012, 10:22 PM
Not Really. You only need to have either your offense or defense in the top ten. Both is unnecessary and (and frankly unrealistic). The other can unit can be as low as in the bottom third of the league and you can still win the whole shabang, including three of the last four champions.

Going back the last 13 years,

Year Team OFF DEF(points)

99 Ravens 14 - 1
00 Rams 1 - 4
01 Patriots 6 - 6
02 Buccaneers 18 - 1
03 Patriots 12 - 1
04 Patriots 4 - 2
05 Steelers 9 - 3
06 Colts 2 - 23
07 Giants 14 - 17
08 Steelers 20 - 1
09 Saints 1 - 20
10 Packers 10 - 2
11 Giants 9 - 25

The problem is that I don't really see us having a top ten offense this year either. That's why I'm saying we need a top 10 defense to win a Super Bowl with Manning.

This applies strictly to his first year as a Bronco and all the transitional issues I expect to come along with it. Assuming Manning ultimately returns to his previous form (something I'll believe when I see it), I would think the offense will be much better offensively in his second year and beyond.

Agamemnon
05-18-2012, 10:25 PM
Lots of folks in the know like our MLB

AS for Wolfe he just needs to be consistent and everyone around him gets better..
When he comes off for a breather his replacement has to do the same..

Manning should make the D better by giving them longer bench time and forcing the other team to score more.. Playing from behind tends to make for loads of turnovers, sacks..

Who exactly in the "know" likes Joe Mays as a starting MLB in the NFL? I'd like some actual references and links please.

Oh and Manning's no huddle offense isn't exactly known for giving defenses long breathers. Not sure where you got that.

Requiem
05-18-2012, 10:28 PM
Of course you don't see anything positive about the Broncos.

Lestat
05-18-2012, 10:42 PM
Lots of folks in the know like our MLB

AS for Wolfe he just needs to be consistent and everyone around him gets better..
When he comes off for a breather his replacement has to do the same..

Manning should make the D better by giving them longer bench time and forcing the other team to score more.. Playing from behind tends to make for loads of turnovers, sacks..

folks in the know liked Orton as the starter to give us the best chance to win,Goodman as the starter opposite Champ,our DT situation.

just because a coach doesn't have a major issue with it doesn't mean it's not a key concern. any coach worth his salt is gonna use what he has to the best of his abilities, he's never going to say we need better players at X or Y position.

we need better LB corp help at MLB. it's not a question, you can look at the film since Wilson got hurt and see that it's been a huge hole and a exploited one by opposing offenses. they've fixed CB, working on S but MLB and DT are still holes on the D and while i love this coaching staff and think Elway is doing a great job. but that is the next key thing that needs to be fixed.

Broncos4Life
05-19-2012, 12:15 AM
I want a defense that pushes Phyllis Rivers **** in - really hard. I hate that douchetard.

If we only get 20 sacks and 5 turnovers all season I hope they all come agains the piss chuggers.

Anyone else hear Warren Sapp talk about his arrogance on the top 100 player reactions this past Wednesday? When the show was doing his ranking, they were talking about how many +20 yd passes he threw. We all know who was on the receiving end of all those highlight passes.... Not too worried about Phyllis and his deep game this time around.....

Shananahan
05-19-2012, 12:26 AM
When the show was doing his ranking, they were talking about how many +20 yd passes he threw. We all know who was on the receiving end of all those highlight passes.... Not too worried about Phyllis and his deep game this time around.....
Less than a third of Rivers' completions over 20 yards were to Jackson. He had 69 total, with Jackson catching 21, followed by Floyd with 16, Brown with nine and Gates with eight.

His deep ball isn't some product of a receiver, and if anything Jackson was the one benefiting in that relationship.

ZONA
05-19-2012, 12:51 AM
I think this defense can be a top 10 but so much depends on how fast this offense can gel. If the offense can stay on the field for sustained drives and keep the defense rested, that will certainly help them.

Broncos4Life
05-19-2012, 01:16 AM
Less than a third of Rivers' completions over 20 yards were to Jackson. He had 69 total, with Jackson catching 21, followed by Floyd with 16, Brown with nine and Gates with eight.

His deep ball isn't some product of a receiver, and if anything Jackson was the one benefiting in that relationship.

Wow Shanny! Look, I watch football. A lot of it. I know Rivers spreads the ball around. Never once did I say his deep ball was a product of Jackson. We all know that good qbs make average WRs better. See Manning....VJ is no scrub WR though. And like I said, he was making most of the highlight catches. Any WR would benefit from a good QB throwing them the ball. Thanks for pointing out the obvious though...

barryr
05-19-2012, 06:22 AM
Teams with good offenses can use a more aggressive style defense and take chances knowing or feeling their offense can get the points back if they give up a big play here and there. We'll see if the Broncos plan to do that or not, at least at times.

The Bronco defense over the last few years it seems has not been good at causing turnovers, pass rush has been spotty, giving up huge runs, and the inability to cover TE's or RB's in the passing game. Getting off the field on 3rd downs is another area of improvement, though as bad as some defenses the Broncos have had in recent years, teams didn't seem to get into many 3rd down situations since could get such large chunks of yards on 1st and 2nd down.

If the Broncos want to be a serious Super Bowl contender, then a top 10 defense is needed and really, has to happen. Manning is 36, coming off not playing a season and having multiple surgeries on his neck. Elway at 36 needed a complete team to win a Super Bowl. I would expect the same for Manning.

Punisher
05-19-2012, 08:16 AM
That's what i'm talking about! Lets go Defense

Stuck in Cali
05-19-2012, 08:56 AM
Del Rio, will get the most out of the players we have. He has a knack for it. Now that he can just focus on defense(not worrying about running a team). I expect good things for us this year, even making some players play better than they ever did before.

Ironlung
05-19-2012, 09:36 AM
Oh and Manning's no huddle offense isn't exactly known for giving defenses long breathers. Not sure where you got that.

Yep. Should be exactly like Tebow's 8-10 3 and outs per game, right?

Lestat
05-19-2012, 10:00 AM
Yep. Should be exactly like Tebow's 8-10 3 and outs per game, right?

it'll be as fast as that,except with touchdowns at the end.

houghtam
05-19-2012, 10:07 AM
Yep. Should be exactly like Tebow's 8-10 3 and outs per game, right?

Never happened.

If you can even find one game where he had that many 3 and outs, I'll give you a shiny nickel. Go on! Go look, boy!

Fun Fact: Well over 50% of Denver's 3 and outs this season came in the second half and when the team was already down.

Man that defense was good.

DENVERDUI55
05-19-2012, 10:16 AM
Never happened.

If you can even find one game where he had that many 3 and outs, I'll give you a shiny nickel. Go on! Go look, boy!

Fun Fact: Well over 50% of Denver's 3 and outs this season came in the second half and when the team was already down.

Man that defense was good.

There were 7 3 and outs in Chicago game that is probably as close as it gets but Tebow led Bronco's led league in them.

peacepipe
05-19-2012, 10:35 AM
Never happened.

If you can even find one game where he had that many 3 and outs, I'll give you a shiny nickel. Go on! Go look, boy!Fun Fact: Well over 50% of Denver's 3 and outs this season came in the second half and when the team was already down.

Man that defense was good.

TT had 8 3 and outs in a row against the jets finishing 3-13 on 3rd down... just saying. it only took a whopping 30 secs to a minute to find.

peacepipe
05-19-2012, 10:41 AM
I dont care about having a top 10 defense. I want turnovers and stops on 3rd down. Especially turnovers, considering who our QB is.

:Broncos:

we ranked 6th in the league last yr on 3rd down.

Shananahan
05-19-2012, 10:44 AM
Wow Shanny! Look, I watch football. A lot of it. I know Rivers spreads the ball around. Never once did I say his deep ball was a product of Jackson. We all know that good qbs make average WRs better. See Manning....VJ is no scrub WR though. And like I said, he was making most of the highlight catches. Any WR would benefit from a good QB throwing them the ball. Thanks for pointing out the obvious though...
You made it sound like Rivers' deep ball wouldn't be a factor because Jackson wouldn't be around to catch those 'highlight passes', and said you weren't too concerned about it 'this time around'. I was just pointing out that it was a silly comment to make.

Rivers has thrown 65+ passes of over 20 yards each of the past three seasons, and in 2010 only three of them were caught by Jackson. The year before that, Gates and Floyd combined for almost twice as many.

Don't get all defensive if it's that obvious.

Lolad
05-19-2012, 10:55 AM
we ranked 6th in the league last yr on 3rd down.

This is a skewed statistic because a lot of teams did their damage on 1st and 2nd down. The better teams that we faced like the patriots, packers, even the game vs the bills our 3rd down defense was terrible

CEH
05-19-2012, 10:59 AM
If you count turnovers in the first series of each drive DET and NYJ had 8 3 and outs. CHI had 7. When you only get 12-14 drives a game and you end up punting 5+ staright times tough on a defense

NYJ game Denver punted 8 straight times.
CHI game 7 straight punts or turnover with an extra end of half
BUF 5 straight punts, TD then 6 staight drives ending in a punt of turnover
KC 5 straight punts or turnover then a FG and 5 more punts or turnovers
NE 5 straight punts or turnover

So when we were winning and losing the offense was going long periods of not producing points or even attempting FGs

Lestat
05-19-2012, 11:24 AM
If you count turnovers in the first series of each drive DET and NYJ had 8 3 and outs. CHI had 7. When you only get 12-14 drives a game and you end up punting 5+ staright times tough on a defense

NYJ game Denver punted 8 straight times.
CHI game 7 straight punts or turnover with an extra end of half
BUF 5 straight punts, TD then 6 staight drives ending in a punt of turnover
KC 5 straight punts or turnover then a FG and 5 more punts or turnovers
NE 5 straight punts or turnover

So when we were winning and losing the offense was going long periods of not producing points or even attempting FGs

this is exactly why people who lived,breathed and slept football were at a loss to explain how Tebow could play so badly for 45-55 mins and then all of a sudden turn into a beast late in the game. we played some atrocious football under Tebow, we were horrible under Orton but Tebow won whereas Orton sucked and still lost.

DENVERDUI55
05-19-2012, 11:28 AM
this is exactly why people who lived,breathed and slept football were at a loss to explain how Tebow could play so badly for 45-55 mins and then all of a sudden turn into a beast late in the game. we played some atrocious football under Tebow, we were horrible under Orton but Tebow won whereas Orton sucked and still lost.

It was fools gold and took a lot of luck. Losing 4 of last 5 showed us what happens when you don't get some magical breaks along with some serious blowouts. If your D holds to 7 pts you should never, never, never lose especially against Kyle Orton.

Lestat
05-19-2012, 11:40 AM
It was fools gold and took a lot of luck. Losing 4 of last 5 showed us what happens when you don't get some magical breaks along with some serious blowouts. If your D holds to 7 pts you should never, never, never lose especially against Kyle Orton.

yep, this is why i keep using the term sustainable success when referring to why people weren't sold on Tebow's seemingly magic winning ways.
that wasn't a sustainable formula for success, every team needs luck to win here and there but it should be an extra asset not the definitive one.

errand
05-19-2012, 11:49 AM
The problem is that I don't really see us having a top ten offense this year either.

Are you crazy? This is gonna be the first season since perhaps '96-'98 where the Broncos O steps onto the field and says "Well, we're gonna get our 24-30 points....."


That's why I'm saying we need a top 10 defense to win a Super Bowl with Manning.

While I disagree (as does recent history) that you need a top 10 D to win it all....it damn sure doesn't hurt, and is one less thing to worry about.....here's to hoping our D can keep opponents consistently under 20 points per game....but it's very comforting knowing we have a QB that can put more than 13 points up per game...hell, he'll do that before halftime in most games.

This applies strictly to his first year as a Bronco and all the transitional issues I expect to come along with it. Assuming Manning ultimately returns to his previous form (something I'll believe when I see it), I would think the offense will be much better offensively in his second year and beyond.

I'm sure he won't start blasting the league in week one or two, but I'm guessing by mid-season we'll be one tough team to keep under 24-30 points...and I agree in year two and beyond we will see marked improvement





in bold

errand
05-19-2012, 11:54 AM
Who exactly in the "know" likes Joe Mays as a starting MLB in the NFL? I'd like some actual references and links please.

Well, evidently the Broncos do...which is a good thing for Joe cuz that's who he plays for....

Oh and Manning's no huddle offense isn't exactly known for giving defenses long breathers. Not sure where you got that.

Doesn't matter...Manning puts points up on the scoreboard....I recall years ago someone posted the best way to stop him was keep the ball away from him, and it was strongly refuted as he won like 85% of the games where the Colts lost the TOP battle.



In bold...and we all know the real reason why you're trying to downplay the signing of Peyton Manning....just wanted you to know, we know.

Cito Pelon
05-19-2012, 12:42 PM
we ranked 6th in the league last yr on 3rd down.

True, and taking it just a bit further, were 12th in 3d down attempts against.

But, as JDR said, 24th in scoring D.

Also 2nd giving up 40+ pass plays (13 of 'em, wow), 23rd 20+ pass plays, 14th TD's allowed, 28th in INT's, 19th in first downs allowed, 10th in sacks.

Ninth in 20+ yd rushes given up (14 of 'em, wow), 18th 40+ rushes (only one, no big deal), 21st fumbles, 12th APC.

A mixed bag certainly, and JDR was spot on looking at the Big Three that has to be improved - explosive plays, pts allowed. But maybe and hopefully they'll have it a little more together this year.

The turnovers created were just horrible, JDR didn't mention that here, but I'm sure that's an emphasis.

houghtam
05-19-2012, 01:04 PM
this is exactly why people who lived,breathed and slept football were at a loss to explain how Tebow could play so badly for 45-55 mins and then all of a sudden turn into a beast late in the game. we played some atrocious football under Tebow, we were horrible under Orton but Tebow won whereas Orton sucked and still lost.

All I am saying is that our offensive ineptitude is just as overstated as our defensive ineptitude is understated. The Denver Broncos defense will have to be VASTLY improved to be a top-10 unit this year. I don't see it happening. This thread is full of a lot of orange colored glasses, and that's cool, it's a Broncos board. But don't act like those of us who are like "uhhhh, did you see our defense last year, or were you too busy whining about Tebow?" don't have a damned good point.

lonestar
05-19-2012, 01:14 PM
The problem is that I don't really see us having a top ten offense this year either. That's why I'm saying we need a top 10 defense to win a Super Bowl with Manning.

This applies strictly to his first year as a Bronco and all the transitional issues I expect to come along with it. Assuming Manning ultimately returns to his previous from (something I'll believe when I see it), I would think the offense will be much better offensively in his second year and beyond.

Good points but I expect barring injuries that instead of fading down the stretch this coming year we will be gaining MO..

We finally have a qualified DC and a Defensive minded coach and needles to say a HOF QB while it will take some time form him to turn the O around to his way of doing things (perfection) by mid-season we should be about there..

NOW that said we have what looks to be a brutal schedule second hardest in the NFL according to last years standings.. We all know that does not mean it is cast in stone BUT good teams are usually good team year after year and unless they have catastrophic injuries they probably will be good this coming year..

Jetmeck
05-19-2012, 01:15 PM
I am so optimistic about this guy and our defense improving. JDR is a real top notch DC, something we haven't had if ever on this team. The only major issue to me is the d-line. JDR knows defensive lineman and am sure he was involved with drafting Wolfe so I am hopeful about him.

BroncosSR
05-19-2012, 01:17 PM
Please, please... Don't leave after this year. This defense, above all else, needs stability at the coordinator position.

lonestar
05-19-2012, 01:20 PM
Who exactly in the "know" likes Joe Mays as a starting MLB in the NFL? I'd like some actual references and links please.

Oh and Manning's no huddle offense isn't exactly known for giving defenses long breathers. Not sure where you got that.

I heard somewhere that NO and another team maybe JAX were hot in pursuit of him, both teams that are known for their consistently good defenses.. sorry but it was something I heard maybe on NFLN or radio so links not going to happen..

I also have seen some surprising stats on his tackling ranking him in the top 5 IIRC. After reading those and seeing that JDR obviously had a hand in getting him resigned gave me pause for my thinking it was a dumb thing to do..

as for Manning making the D better that was OUR defense getting better because they should be on the field less.

Hope that clarifies my post..

Shananahan
05-19-2012, 01:29 PM
I don't mind the resigning of Mays, I just hate the price.

lonestar
05-19-2012, 01:33 PM
folks in the know liked Orton as the starter to give us the best chance to win,Goodman as the starter opposite Champ,our DT situation.

just because a coach doesn't have a major issue with it doesn't mean it's not a key concern. any coach worth his salt is gonna use what he has to the best of his abilities, he's never going to say we need better players at X or Y position.

we need better LB corp help at MLB. it's not a question, you can look at the film since Wilson got hurt and see that it's been a huge hole and a exploited one by opposing offenses. they've fixed CB, working on S but MLB and DT are still holes on the D and while i love this coaching staff and think Elway is doing a great job. but that is the next key thing that needs to be fixed.

Got to remember that we NOW have a professional coaching staff as well as Elway at the helm.. I beleive that he has an eye for talent, listens to and respects his coaching staff.. Unlike mikey and most likely Josh.

no more mickey mouse dafts or signing expensive FAs to haul their asses out of the fire for another season, like we have seen the past decade or more..

as to your comments about the LB corps sure we can upgrade there as we can at every spot on the team save perhaps Manning and Champ*..

But we have to have priorities good LB's become great LBs with a great DL in front of them..the LB corps do not make great DL's. We seem to have upgraded that and I suspect that because of that the LB's all of them will be just that much better..

IMO replacing DJ with a better WIL will upgrade the team more than replacing Mays. Since we have no idea what we have in Irving and the otehr LB I'm going to let the coaching staff prioritize what they feel they need first..
* some will say that Doom and Miller should be on this list but they are flawed as well they are not 3 down players YET.. Nor has Clady played like his old self..

lonestar
05-19-2012, 01:44 PM
folks in the know also liked Cutlet as the starter to give us the best chance to win,

Fixed that for you..

lonestar
05-19-2012, 01:48 PM
Less than a third of Rivers' completions over 20 yards were to Jackson. He had 69 total, with Jackson catching 21, followed by Floyd with 16, Brown with nine and Gates with eight.

His deep ball isn't some product of a receiver, and if anything Jackson was the one benefiting in that relationship.

good catch I was about to state the same thing..

Rivers is a damned fine QB that has had out number since cutlet was in town.. Had t not been for Houcklis blown call in that first SAN game well I doubt we would have beaten that team at all..

I do not like the kid, but as a football QB he is better than anyone since John we have had till this year..

lonestar
05-19-2012, 01:52 PM
Wow Shanny! Look, I watch football. A lot of it. I know Rivers spreads the ball around. Never once did I say his deep ball was a product of Jackson. We all know that good qbs make average WRs better. See Manning....VJ is no scrub WR though. And like I said, he was making most of the highlight catches. Any WR would benefit from a good QB throwing them the ball. Thanks for pointing out the obvious though...

sure not the way I read it also..

Originally Posted by Broncos4Life View Post
When the show was doing his ranking, they were talking about how many +20 yd passes he threw. We all know who was on the receiving end of all those highlight passes.... Not too worried about Phyllis and his deep game this time around.....

Sure sounded like because VJ was gone he would not on the receiving end of all those highlight passes anymore and therefore Not too worried about Phyllis and his deep game this time around.

Now just where did we misinterpret your post?

lonestar
05-19-2012, 01:57 PM
Teams with good offenses can use a more aggressive style defense and take chances knowing or feeling their offense can get the points back if they give up a big play here and there. We'll see if the Broncos plan to do that or not, at least at times.

The Bronco defense over the last few years it seems has not been good at causing turnovers, pass rush has been spotty, giving up huge runs, and the inability to cover TE's or RB's in the passing game. Getting off the field on 3rd downs is another area of improvement, though as bad as some defenses the Broncos have had in recent years, teams didn't seem to get into many 3rd down situations since could get such large chunks of yards on 1st and 2nd down.

If the Broncos want to be a serious Super Bowl contender, then a top 10 defense is needed and really, has to happen. Manning is 36, coming off not playing a season and having multiple surgeries on his neck. Elway at 36 needed a complete team to win a Super Bowl. I would expect the same for Manning.

Late in the year many teams were running on 3rd and long knowing that Miller was going to pass rush and in most of those times the RB was going past him while he was trying to get to the QB..

I suspect that he will be coached up this year by JDR who IIRC was a hell of a LB in his day..

that in itself will cut a some of the long running plays down..

lonestar
05-19-2012, 02:03 PM
I don't mind the resigning of Mays, I just hate the price.

From what I heard it was the going price if we did not give it JAX or NO would have..

R8R H8R
05-19-2012, 02:30 PM
I was disappointed that he didn't say "We're going to have an attacking style defense". You know, because I have never heard that before.

Shananahan
05-19-2012, 03:41 PM
From what I heard it was the going price if we did not give it JAX or NO would have..
Yeah, and if that's true then I wish they had let him walk. I realize he's the most experienced middle linebacker they've got, but they're also really hoping that Irving pans out and even if he doesn't they're going to need to upgrade the position eventually. I would have preferred the money be spent on another defensive tackle or something.

pricejj
05-19-2012, 04:31 PM
Yeah, and if that's true then I wish they had let him walk. I realize he's the most experienced middle linebacker they've got, but they're also really hoping that Irving pans out and even if he doesn't they're going to need to upgrade the position eventually. I would have preferred the money be spent on another defensive tackle or something.

Soliai would have been nice. I don't think either Bannan, or Warren can get the job done at NT...and that's assuming Warren shows up, and doesn't get hurt at the 1st practice.

Raiders don't have a backup MLB. Once McClain goes in the pokey, it's curtains for the Defense.

Shananahan
05-19-2012, 04:34 PM
McClain isn't going to be missing any time because of his sentence, don't kid yourself. Hopefully he's suspended for at least 4-6 games, though.

lonestar
05-19-2012, 05:13 PM
Yeah, and if that's true then I wish they had let him walk. I realize he's the most experienced middle linebacker they've got, but they're also really hoping that Irving pans out and even if he doesn't they're going to need to upgrade the position eventually. I would have preferred the money be spent on another defensive tackle or something.

I'm not yet convinced either but knowng what otheri holes they had to fill they are making do or hoping he turns into another ray lewis..

If he does a good job his contract is such that he would be tradeable also IF Irving comes on strong..

I think most of Y'all fail to realize that there is no way you can afford 8 pro bowlers on each side of the LOS even IF they could find them..

There are always going to be role players.. Some players that are not quite pro bowlers but still good enough to turn the team into a top ten or 5 defense..

As I have always said up grade the DL and everyone behind them becomes better.. May never be all pro. But the DL and OL makes everyone behind them either great or lousy.

Simple fact of life.. Something DEN have failed to grasp for a long time..

Does anyone think that Emmet Smith would have lasted as long or set as many records had he played in DEN instead of DAL?

lonestar
05-19-2012, 05:15 PM
McClain isn't going to be missing any time because of his sentence, don't kid yourself. Hopefully he's suspended for at least 4-6 games, though.

Sorry but not up to speed on Mc lain, are the charges federal or state?

Agamemnon
05-19-2012, 05:39 PM
There were 7 3 and outs in Chicago game that is probably as close as it gets but Tebow led Bronco's led league in them.

You can't put that all on Tebow anymore than you can give him all the credit for them going from 1-4 to the playoffs. Half the time they would run on third and long, and most of the other half of the time Tebow only got to throw once, also on third down. People around here act like Tebow threw two or three times on most of those three and outs, when the truth is he often threw once or not at all.

pricejj
05-19-2012, 05:47 PM
Sorry but not up to speed on Mc lain, are the charges federal or state?

4 misdemeanor counts 45 days each (to be served concurrently). Steinberg appealed requesting a jury trial. I think he's going to jail eventually...but not sure when.

lonestar
05-19-2012, 05:51 PM
4 misdemeanor counts 45 days each (to be served concurrently). Steinberg appealed requesting a jury trial. I think he's going to jail eventually...but not sure when.

Where was he convicted? State or federal?

lonestar
05-19-2012, 05:52 PM
You can't put that all on Tebow anymore than you can give him all the credit for them going from 1-4 to the playoffs. Half the time they would run on third and long, and most of the other half of the time Tebow only got to throw once, also on third down. People around here act like Tebow threw two or three times on most of those three and outs, when the truth is he often threw once or not at all.

Hard to get into rythm throwing only when you have to.

Shananahan
05-19-2012, 06:19 PM
I think he's going to jail eventually...but not sure when.
At his own convenience.

Bmore Manning
05-19-2012, 06:54 PM
Del Rio had a two gap NT scheme in Baltimore and early in JAX..
Baltimore Adams and Goose
JAX Henderson and Stroud

Then he adopted to a pass rushing UT, to adapt to the game evolving.
It was a run first league then, now it's a pass first league.

Price, I 100% agree this team is a NT away from a dominant 3-4 front. They have 4-3 coaches though and can't keep changing but a let's look at what the 3-4 look could be..

3-4
Wolfe DE, Warren DE
Bannan DE, Jackson DE
Siliga NT..... Need a starting NT

Miller OLB, Doom OLB
Hunter OLB, Woodyard and Trevathan Coverage OLBs

DJ ILB, Mays ILB,
Irving ILB, Franklin ILB

Missouribronc
05-19-2012, 08:11 PM
Where was he convicted? State or federal?

You don't get federal charges for misdemeanors. Hell, you don't even get federal charges for most felonies.

Missouribronc
05-19-2012, 08:14 PM
Thus far, the Broncos personnel does not reflect Jacksonville's personnel, defensively, under Del Rio.

I am interested to see how he coaches this team. He hasn't been known for unleashing linebackers on the quarterback, yet that's what he has in Miller. He hasn't been known for penetrating defensive tackles, yet that's what we just drafted.

I'm a little concerned about scheme, because the defense we have doesn't fit into the JDR mold, in terms of what he's coached before.

Cito Pelon
05-19-2012, 09:50 PM
Thus far, the Broncos personnel does not reflect Jacksonville's personnel, defensively, under Del Rio.

I am interested to see how he coaches this team. He hasn't been known for unleashing linebackers on the quarterback, yet that's what he has in Miller. He hasn't been known for penetrating defensive tackles, yet that's what we just drafted.

I'm a little concerned about scheme, because the defense we have doesn't fit into the JDR mold, in terms of what he's coached before.

JDR must have had some input on the D. They drafted plenty, signed plenty i n FA.

cutthemdown
05-20-2012, 01:31 AM
Del Rio had a two gap NT scheme in Baltimore and early in JAX..
Baltimore Adams and Goose
JAX Henderson and Stroud

Then he adopted to a pass rushing UT, to adapt to the game evolving.
It was a run first league then, now it's a pass first league.

Price, I 100% agree this team is a NT away from a dominant 3-4 front. They have 4-3 coaches though and can't keep changing but a let's look at what the 3-4 look could be..

3-4
Wolfe DE, Warren DE
Bannan DE, Jackson DE
Siliga NT..... Need a starting NT

Miller OLB, Doom OLB
Hunter OLB, Woodyard and Trevathan Coverage OLBs

DJ ILB, Mays ILB,
Irving ILB, Franklin ILB

The linebacking would stink.

dj-not good enough at shedding blocks or playing in traffic to play inside. Miller stinks at pass coverage. Doom stinks at coverage. Mays same as DJ, just not that physical or big. Inside backers in a 3-4 often take on guards. LOL at DJ taking on guards. He can barely make it at weakside in a 4-3. The DE would work and that is about it. Horrible idea. Switching back to 4-3 the best move they could have made.

DENVERDUI55
05-20-2012, 08:27 AM
You can't put that all on Tebow anymore than you can give him all the credit for them going from 1-4 to the playoffs. Half the time they would run on third and long, and most of the other half of the time Tebow only got to throw once, also on third down. People around here act like Tebow threw two or three times on most of those three and outs, when the truth is he often threw once or not at all.

That's because he can't throw abbd they had better chance for first down running.

Agamemnon
05-20-2012, 11:15 AM
That's because he can't throw abbd they had better chance for first down running.

::)

KCStud
05-20-2012, 02:02 PM
JDR has his work cut out for him. With Dawkins gone and DJ Williams missing the first handful of games, it'll be tough.

Broncos struggled against top offenses. Detroit, NE 2X and GB went off on you guys.

houghtam
05-20-2012, 02:12 PM
JDR has his work cut out for him. With Dawkins gone and DJ Williams missing the first handful of games, it'll be tough.

Broncos struggled against top offenses. Detroit, NE 2X and GB went off on you guys.

NURRRRRRRR TEBOW NURRRRRRRRR

pricejj
05-20-2012, 02:20 PM
JDR has his work cut out for him. With Dawkins gone and DJ Williams missing the first handful of games, it'll be tough.

Broncos struggled against top offenses. Detroit, NE 2X and GB went off on you guys.

You're right...

The Broncos D got rocked pretty much after Dawkins went out...and got rocked against Green Bay (with Orton).

Replacing Dawkins with Adams, and replacing Goodman with Porter isn't going to make a big positive difference. Hopefully Derek Wolfe lights a fire on the D-Line. We need a leader.

McD more rings than Elway
05-20-2012, 02:21 PM
Broncos struggled against top offenses. Detroit, NE 2X and GB went off on you guys.

Queefs defense struggled against top offenses (DET-48, NE-34) and mediocre offenses like MIA (31) and NYJ (37).

Queefs also gave up 41 to Buffalo and 28 to a Curtis Painter-led Colts team LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

DBroncos4life
05-20-2012, 02:59 PM
You're right...

The Broncos D got rocked pretty much after Dawkins went out...and got rocked against Green Bay (with Orton).

Replacing Dawkins with Adams, and replacing Goodman with Porter isn't going to make a big positive difference. Hopefully Derek Wolfe lights a fire on the D-Line. We need a leader.

Lol wut?

Bmore Manning
05-20-2012, 03:13 PM
Lol wut?

Thats what I was thinking.

Price, Porter upgrades Goodman substantially, and it's not even close..
Mike Adams is a good all around Free Safety. One of the unknowns in the NFL, who quietly does his job well. While he's not the leader or hitter Dawkins is, he is good at tackling and good in coverage. I dare say he may be better as a ball hawk than Dawkins.

Bmore Manning
05-20-2012, 03:15 PM
And Dawkins is a SS, so Denver upgraded FS and CB 2... Carter played SS in Dawkins absence so it's not like they downgraded.

DBroncos4life
05-20-2012, 03:22 PM
Thats what I was thinking.

Price, Porter upgrades Goodman substantially, and it's not even close..
Mike Adams is a good all around Free Safety. One of the unknowns in the NFL, who quietly does his job well. While he's not the leader or hitter Dawkins is, he is good at tackling and good in coverage. I dare say he may be better as a ball hawk than Dawkins.

We lost Dawkins leadership but the three vets we brought in on the secondary and the fact that Moore ad Carter are no longer rookies should make up for that. Sometimes good old upgrades in talent out way the loss of leadership.

Drunken.Broncoholic
05-20-2012, 03:25 PM
I don't want McClain to miss any games. He's terrible and him on the field benefits everyone except the raiders.

Bmore Manning
05-20-2012, 03:26 PM
We lost Dawkins leadership but the three vets we brought in on the secondary and the fact that Moore ad Carter are no longer rookies should make up for that. Sometimes good old upgrades in talent out way the loss of leadership.

I agree, that's why I was not sure what Price was getting at.. Adams is a upgrade at FS over Moore and Carter should hopefully improve going into next year.

Shananahan
05-20-2012, 03:30 PM
Broncos struggled against top offenses. Detroit, NE 2X and GB went off on you guys.
Everybody struggled against those guys. That's why they were top offenses.

Denver is counting on dramatic offensive improvement to take the next step as a team. I think the very worst-case scenario for the defense is they're at least as good as they were last season, which is kinda comforting.

KCStud
05-20-2012, 03:48 PM
Queefs defense struggled against top offenses (DET-48, NE-34) and mediocre offenses like MIA (31) and NYJ (37).

Queefs also gave up 41 to Buffalo and 28 to a Curtis Painter-led Colts team LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

KC struggled in the first half, then came on in the 2nd half. I like how you left GB out of there.

KC had the 3rd best defense in the league in the 2nd half of the season....without Eric Berry.

McD more rings than Elway
05-20-2012, 04:45 PM
KC struggled in the first half, then came on in the 2nd half. I like how you left GB out of there.

KC had the 3rd best defense in the league in the 2nd half of the season....without Eric Berry.

All the good the Queefs did in the second half was wiped out by giving up 37 points to Mark Sanchez and the New York Jets in week 14.

KCStud
05-20-2012, 05:12 PM
All the good the Queefs did in the second half was wiped out by giving up 37 points to Mark Sanchez and the New York Jets in week 14.

Haha one game huh? Then what about GB? How about we judge one game solely on that one as well?

Arkie
05-20-2012, 06:03 PM
Not Really. You only need to have either your offense or defense in the top ten. Both is unnecessary and (and frankly unrealistic). The other can unit can be as low as in the bottom third of the league and you can still win the whole shabang, including three of the last four champions.

Going back the last 13 years,

Year Team OFF DEF(points)

99 Ravens 14 - 1
00 Rams 1 - 4
01 Patriots 6 - 6
02 Buccaneers 18 - 1
03 Patriots 12 - 1
04 Patriots 4 - 2
05 Steelers 9 - 3
06 Colts 2 - 23
07 Giants 14 - 17
08 Steelers 20 - 1
09 Saints 1 - 20
10 Packers 10 - 2
11 Giants 9 - 25

You basically need a top 5 defense unless you have a Manning or Brees. It's interesting to see that the Giants are the only team to win it without a top 10 offense or defense. Then they barely had a top 10 offense when they won it again.

Bmore Manning
05-20-2012, 06:35 PM
Haha one game huh? Then what about GB? How about we judge one game solely on that one as well?

What possible leverage could you have to go to a rival forum and try to convince their posters... what exactly about the chiefs?

Do You guys have a good roster.. Yup. Who's your QB? I think anyone getting in a debate with you will be wasting their time, you like the chiefs, but this is a Bronco forum guy. Worry about who's going to magically make the offense click. If you think KC is stopping Manning from scoring you are a moron. KC can't match Peyton TD to TD PERIOD!

lonestar
05-20-2012, 07:19 PM
The linebacking would stink.

dj-not good enough at shedding blocks or playing in traffic to play inside. Miller stinks at pass coverage. Doom stinks at coverage. Mays same as DJ, just not that physical or big. Inside backers in a 3-4 often take on guards. LOL at DJ taking on guards. He can barely make it at weakside in a 4-3. The DE would work and that is about it. Horrible idea. Switching back to 4-3 the best move they could have made.

Thanks for putting my thoughts down have not spent much time on here but You nailed it..

Bmore Manning
05-20-2012, 07:32 PM
The linebacking would stink.

dj-not good enough at shedding blocks or playing in traffic to play inside. Miller stinks at pass coverage. Doom stinks at coverage. Mays same as DJ, just not that physical or big. Inside backers in a 3-4 often take on guards. LOL at DJ taking on guards. He can barely make it at weakside in a 4-3. The DE would work and that is about it. Horrible idea. Switching back to 4-3 the best move they could have made.

The LB would not stink as bad as you make it sound. Miller is best suit for 3-4 OLB either side. He's more than competent enough to keep playing strong side and work on his coverage. Doom coming off the edge in the weak side. Thats a strength! Mays is better suited for 3-4 ILB and Irving will finally be on the field.

lonestar
05-20-2012, 07:38 PM
The LB would not stink as bad as you make it sound. Miller is best suit for 3-4 OLB either side. He's more than competent enough to keep playing strong side and work on his coverage. Doom coming off the edge in the weak side. Thats a strength! Mays is better suited for 3-4 ILB and Irving will finally be on the field.

Miller is nothing but a hand in the dirt rushing LB or DE..

As far as his pass coverage ahahahahahahahaha.. Doom is a pass rushing DE and not good enough to play OLB as proved several years ago..

Plus for the most part you need MASSIVE NT that hold his ground and requires at least a double team..

errand
05-20-2012, 07:39 PM
You basically need a top 5 defense unless you have a Manning or Brees. It's interesting to see that the Giants are the only team to win it without a top 10 offense or defense. Then they barely had a top 10 offense when they won it again.

Ok..well, we solved that problem...we've got a Manning.

Shananahan
05-20-2012, 07:41 PM
It's interesting to see that the Giants are the only team to win it without a top 10 offense or defense. Then they barely had a top 10 offense when they won it again.
Regular season statistics aren't that important once you're in the playoffs.

pricejj
05-20-2012, 07:44 PM
Thats what I was thinking.

Price, Porter upgrades Goodman substantially, and it's not even close..

I'll believe it when I see it. Porter had a 70% completion rate against him last year, and has never played a 16 game season. Goodman gave up 9 TD's deep...but the Safety play was terrible. I hope Porter is a lot better than Goodman...but I have my reservations.

Mike Adams is a good all around Free Safety. One of the unknowns in the NFL, who quietly does his job well. While he's not the leader or hitter Dawkins is, he is good at tackling and good in coverage. I dare say he may be better as a ball hawk than Dawkins.

I'm sure Adams is better in coverage than Dawkins, that's why he plays FS. However, he has only started all 16 games one year (last year) in his 8 year career, and the Browns let him go without offering him a contract. We signed him for cheap. I think he's solid, and the Browns did finish with the #2 pass Defense last year...I hope he eliminates all the long bombs...but we'll see.

Bmore Manning
05-20-2012, 08:22 PM
Miller is nothing but a hand in the dirt rushing LB or DE..

As far as his pass coverage ahahahahahahahaha.. Doom is a pass rushing DE and not good enough to play OLB as proved several years ago..

Plus for the most part you need MASSIVE NT that hold his ground and requires at least a double team..

Disagree on the evaluation of both Miller and Doom. Miller is more of a liability in coverage than Harrison or Woodley? Than Suggs or Jarret Johnson? 3-4 OLBs if they drop, are typically responsible for the flats and zone/man against a TE or RB. If your gonna Blitz Miller as u say he's a pass rusher only, then Denver is still committing 5 to Blitz. I just don't see how it's any different, at least in the 3-4 we utilize what Doom and Millers strengths are in the base scheme. Miller currently as the Sam in a 4-3 should have more coverage responsibilities than the 3-4.

I have said Denver would need a 3-4 NT, but they need a real 4-3 NT now anyway. Mays is best suited as a run defender in a 3-4 with Irving or Franklin with him inside. Trevathan and Woodyard could be in sub packages. I think the options are there. But I know they aren't going to do it but let's not act like they couldn't.

Bottom line is they aren't switching to a 3-4, they are staying 4-3, but I think they will throw some odd man 3-4 looks from time to time not just the 5 man front of the 4-3 Over/Under. I like the 4-3 but I would like the idea of being deceiving and throwing exotic looks. The 4-3 works for me, but the 3-4 could work.

Doggcow
05-20-2012, 09:03 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. Porter had a 70% completion rate against him last year, and has never played a 16 game season. Goodman gave up 9 TD's deep...but the Safety play was terrible. I hope Porter is a lot better than Goodman...but I have my reservations.

How many of those games were the Saints dominating? I'd like to see that stat with a "While ahead by 14+ in the second half %"

bowtown
05-20-2012, 09:21 PM
Doom is a pass rushing DE and not good enough to play OLB as proved several years ago..
.

Oh, you mean the year he had his best season as a pro? Do you understand what an OLB is asked to do in a 3-4?

Bacchus
05-20-2012, 09:32 PM
You can't put that all on Tebow anymore than you can give him all the credit for them going from 1-4 to the playoffs. Half the time they would run on third and long, and most of the other half of the time Tebow only got to throw once, also on third down. People around here act like Tebow threw two or three times on most of those three and outs, when the truth is he often threw once or not at all.

So Tebow gets all the credit for turning around a 1-4 team but he gets no blame for finishing 1-4 and backing into the playoffs?

bowtown
05-20-2012, 09:35 PM
So Tebow gets all the credit for turning around a 1-4 team but he gets no blame for finishing 1-4 and backing into the playoffs?

Right. That's on Peyton Manning and Pat Bowlen.

DBroncos4life
05-20-2012, 10:25 PM
How many of those games were the Saints dominating? I'd like to see that stat with a "While ahead by 14+ in the second half %"

He won't respond to this point. Porter gave up just two TDs last year which was much better the Goodman.

DENVERDUI55
05-21-2012, 07:19 AM
JDR has his work cut out for him. With Dawkins gone and DJ Williams missing the first handful of games, it'll be tough.

Broncos struggled against top offenses. Detroit, NE 2X and GB went off on you guys.

Which defenses don't struggle against those offenses? Dawkins won't be missed much and DJ is average nothing special.

peacepipe
05-21-2012, 07:22 AM
So Tebow gets all the credit for turning around a 1-4 team but he gets no blame for finishing 1-4 and backing into the playoffs?

tebow is the second coming of jesus christ,didn't you know. you can't say anything that may a negative,even if it's an honest observation,about tebow.

Bacchus
05-21-2012, 07:37 AM
tebow is the second coming of jesus christ,didn't you know. you can't say anything that may a negative,even if it's an honest observation,about tebow.

I knew he was very competitive, didn't know he was the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ though. My apologies to anyone I have offended.

Steve Sewell
05-21-2012, 08:01 AM
Queefs defense struggled against top offenses (DET-48, NE-34) and mediocre offenses like MIA (31) and NYJ (37).

Queefs also gave up 41 to Buffalo and 28 to a Curtis Painter-led Colts team LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

This "McD more rings than Elway" guy is really growing on me...

Steve Sewell
05-21-2012, 08:07 AM
So Tebow gets all the credit for turning around a 1-4 team but he gets no blame for finishing 1-4 and backing into the playoffs?

Knowledgeable football fan/rational human being are not the first descriptions that come to mind when you think about Agamemnon.

pricejj
05-21-2012, 08:22 AM
How many of those games were the Saints dominating? I'd like to see that stat with a "While ahead by 14+ in the second half %"

I don't know the answer to that, but the other Saints didn't have a problem...

Jabari Greer (LCB) had a 55% completion rate, and was the most targeted CB in the NFL.

Patrick Robinson (RCB) had a 59.3 opposing QB rating (#7th best in NFL).

Clearly, Porter's issues were not systematic. I would love for Porter to perform better than Goodman, but like I said, I think Goodman's issues were mostly due to terrible Safety play.

baja
05-21-2012, 08:26 AM
Did someone pick Goodman up?

BroncoBen
05-21-2012, 08:48 AM
So Tebow gets all the credit for turning around a 1-4 team but he gets no blame for finishing 1-4 and backing into the playoffs?

:hitself: oh no.. you didn't !! Yesh.. I thought that was the way it worked when talking about TT.

pricejj
05-21-2012, 08:49 AM
Goodman just visited the Titans. I wouldn't imagine there's much of a market for a #2/Nickel CB who will be 34 when the season starts. He's at the end of his career.

The Broncos definitely needed a younger player, but I think Goodman played pretty well for being opposite of Champ. The Safety pass coverage was pathetic.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 08:59 AM
Goodman just visited the Titans. I wouldn't imagine there's much of a market for a #2/Nickel CB who will be 34 when the season starts. He's at the end of his career.

The Broncos definitely needed a younger player, but I think Goodman played pretty well for being opposite of Champ. The Safety pass coverage was pathetic.

Is it possible both the safety play and Goodman's play was pathetic? I don't seem to recall his being very good at any time during his career. He averages about 2 interceptions a year. I'm not under any delusion that Porter will be much upgrade from him if at all, but Goodman's not that great to begin with.

pricejj
05-21-2012, 09:35 AM
Is it possible both the safety play and Goodman's play was pathetic? I don't seem to recall his being very good at any time during his career. He averages about 2 interceptions a year. I'm not under any delusion that Porter will be much upgrade from him if at all, but Goodman's not that great to begin with.

I completely agree with you. The point I am trying to make is that there are only 4 new starters on the Defense, to go from 25th in points, to top 10 (this year) is going to be tough. But who knows?

1. Goodman -> Porter (minor upgrade)
2. Dawkins -> Adams (minor upgrade pass defense, minor downgrade in run defense)
3. Bunkley -> Bannan (major downgrade in run defense)
4. Thomas/McBean -> Wolfe (upgrade in both pass and run defense)

To me, it looks like the Defense has potentially upgraded at pass defense and potentially downgraded in run defense. Hopefully, with the offseason additions, we can crack the top 5 in sacks, and significantly improve on INT's from 31st.

Is this a top 10 Defense? That would be a stretch. Middle of the pack would be a major improvement from last year, and with the addition of Peyton Manning, could put us in a position to compete for a Superbowl.

Beantown Bronco
05-21-2012, 09:43 AM
The point I am trying to make is that there are only 4 new starters on the Defense

Only?

4 new players = 36%. That's pretty significant IMO. And there's certainly the possibility that there's at least one more starter-level move between now and week one.

Beantown Bronco
05-21-2012, 09:44 AM
The point I am trying to make is that there are only 4 new starters on the Defense

Only?

4 new players = 36%. That's pretty significant IMO. And there's certainly the possibility that there's at least one more starter-level move between now and week one.

Shananahan
05-21-2012, 09:49 AM
to go from 25th in points, to top 10 (this year) is going to be tough.

.....

Is this a top 10 Defense? That would be a stretch. Middle of the pack would be a major improvement from last year
I think Denver's defense is already middle-of-the-pack. Their PPG allowed was inflated due to a few ridiculous blowouts (NE, GB, DET, BUF).

'Average' is the worst-case-scenario, in my opinion.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 09:50 AM
I completely agree with you. The point I am trying to make is that there are only 4 new starters on the Defense, to go from 25th in points, to top 10 (this year) is going to be tough. But who knows?

1. Goodman -> Porter (minor upgrade)
2. Dawkins -> Adams (minor upgrade pass defense, minor downgrade in run defense)
3. Bunkley -> Bannan (major downgrade in run defense)
4. Thomas/McBean -> Wolfe (upgrade in both pass and run defense)

To me, it looks like the Defense has potentially upgraded at pass defense and potentially downgraded in run defense. Hopefully, with the offseason additions, we can crack the top 5 in sacks, and significantly improve on INT's from 31st.

Is this a top 10 Defense? That would be a stretch. Middle of the pack would be a major improvement from last year, and with the addition of Peyton Manning, could put us in a position to compete for a Superbowl.

I'm in agreement with you on that. I see this defense as improving slightly overall, but seriously lacking in the run game. I'd wager we're at 20 or so overall next year, 25 or worse in run defense, and about the middle of the pack in pass defense. I don't think our offense is going to keep offenses off the field as much as people think, and I have a feeling it is going to be us playing from behind, not the other teams.

Shananahan
05-21-2012, 09:54 AM
Only?

4 new players = 36%. That's pretty significant IMO. And there's certainly the possibility that there's at least one more starter-level move between now and week one.
How many did they add before last year? Three new starters and several new backups or so.

Change happens. Four new guys isn't that big of a deal, as the foundation remains intact and almost all will potentially upgrade the position.

Shananahan
05-21-2012, 09:55 AM
I have a feeling it is going to be us playing from behind, not the other teams.
Just a feeling, huh?

peacepipe
05-21-2012, 10:02 AM
The offense isn't going to sputter along as it did all last season. PM at 80% is better than about 90% of the QBs out there.

pricejj
05-21-2012, 10:06 AM
How many did they add before last year? Three new starters and several new backups or so.

Change happens. Four new guys isn't that big of a deal, as the foundation remains intact and almost all will potentially upgrade the position.

Same scheme? Yes
4 new Starters? Yes
Major upgrades? No (with the possible exception of Wolfe at UT)

Almost ALL the improvements will be predicated on Manning's success in moving the football.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 10:16 AM
Same scheme? Yes
4 new Starters? Yes
Major upgrades? No (with the possible exception of Wolfe at UT)

Almost ALL the improvements will be predicated on Manning's success in moving the football.

There's not a single move that this team has made, outside of Manning, where you can say "this guy is a major upgrade from what we had before."

To me that won't translate to much.

Shananahan
05-21-2012, 10:28 AM
Maybe it's time for you to stop posting, houghtam.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 10:31 AM
Maybe it's time for you to stop posting, houghtam.

You're such a good Broncos fan.

Shananahan
05-21-2012, 10:37 AM
Sorry dude. If you can't get optimistic about adding one of the very best QBs to ever play the game to a (somewhat) young and improving team with potential then I don't really know what else to say.

I love Tebow as much as anybody and was frustrated with the way everything played out, tired of the constant turnover at the position and looking forward to building on last season. That didn't happen, and they replaced him with a top-five player. I just can't find a way to complain about it.

By all means, though, continue to cry about it nonstop with every post you make.

Drek
05-21-2012, 10:53 AM
Same scheme? Yes
4 new Starters? Yes
Major upgrades? No (with the possible exception of Wolfe at UT)

Almost ALL the improvements will be predicated on Manning's success in moving the football.

Del Rio is running a similar scheme as Benedict Allen, doesn't mean its the same. Del Rio's track record is a whole lot stronger and more consistent than Allen, who was very hit and miss last year.

He's as big an addition as you could ask for on defense.

There's not a single move that this team has made, outside of Manning, where you can say "this guy is a major upgrade from what we had before."

To me that won't translate to much.
I'd argue that Adams could be a significant addition. Dawkins was a great in the box weapon but he wasn't consistently healthy and was a liability in coverage. Carter was solid all around but obviously felt more comfortable playing the SS role instead of the FS role. When Dawkins was out we relied on Rahim Moore, David Bruton, and worse to fill in.

Adams now lets Carter lock into SS where he's most comfortable. Carter isn't the play maker of Dawkins but he's more capable in coverage and is a solid run defender in his own right.

Adams is a better FS than we had on the entire team last year. Moore might have the light come on and take the job, but if does it's because he took a huge step up.

So we've effectively improve both safety spots over the course of 16 games by signing one guy.

We've also made a noteworthy improvement at #2, #3, and #4 CB. All of which are valuable contributor roles. Florence is better than Goodman. Porter is better than Goodman. Harris is still here and can provide depth across the secondary. Some nice pick ups to shore up the DBs.

At LB we're going to see what Nate Irving has. If the FO was right to draft him in the 3rd and everything comes together for him this year we might be talking about a long term starter upgrade at MLB pulled from effectively out of nowhere.

CEH
05-21-2012, 11:01 AM
Sorry dude. If you can't get optimistic about adding one of the very best QBs to ever play the game to a (somewhat) young and improving team with potential then I don't really know what else to say.

I love Tebow as much as anybody and was frustrated with the way everything played out, tired of the constant turnover at the position and looking forward to building on last season. That didn't happen, and they replaced him with a top-five player. I just can't find a way to complain about it.

By all means, though, continue to cry about it nonstop with every post you make.

The uninformed posters think manning is just one of 53
They don't understand how much better practices will be
Accountabilty and confidence that Denver will step onto the field every game with arguably the best player at the most important position

houghtam
05-21-2012, 11:05 AM
Sorry dude. If you can't get optimistic about adding one of the very best QBs to ever play the game to a (somewhat) young and improving team with potential then I don't really know what else to say.

I love Tebow as much as anybody and was frustrated with the way everything played out, tired of the constant turnover at the position and looking forward to building on last season. That didn't happen, and they replaced him with a top-five player. I just can't find a way to complain about it.

By all means, though, continue to cry about it nonstop with every post you make.

And the bolded part is why I'm fed up. I've already made my point known, and I stick by it. If you don't get fed up over repeatedly replacing the position that was not the weakest link on the team in hopes for someone else to step in and turn things around, then I don't really know what else to say.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3525028&postcount=687

From me, all Bowlen gets is this year to improve upon last year. I don't have another "just another couple years" in me after the last decade and a half.

If you really want to see me stop posting, just root for the Broncos to not win a playoff game this year. That's all it will take.

Shananahan
05-21-2012, 11:21 AM
Jesus, that's pathetic.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 11:21 AM
Del Rio is running a similar scheme as Benedict Allen, doesn't mean its the same. Del Rio's track record is a whole lot stronger and more consistent than Allen, who was very hit and miss last year.

He's as big an addition as you could ask for on defense.


I'd argue that Adams could be a significant addition. Dawkins was a great in the box weapon but he wasn't consistently healthy and was a liability in coverage. Carter was solid all around but obviously felt more comfortable playing the SS role instead of the FS role. When Dawkins was out we relied on Rahim Moore, David Bruton, and worse to fill in.

Adams now lets Carter lock into SS where he's most comfortable. Carter isn't the play maker of Dawkins but he's more capable in coverage and is a solid run defender in his own right.

Adams is a better FS than we had on the entire team last year. Moore might have the light come on and take the job, but if does it's because he took a huge step up.

So we've effectively improve both safety spots over the course of 16 games by signing one guy.

We've also made a noteworthy improvement at #2, #3, and #4 CB. All of which are valuable contributor roles. Florence is better than Goodman. Porter is better than Goodman. Harris is still here and can provide depth across the secondary. Some nice pick ups to shore up the DBs.

At LB we're going to see what Nate Irving has. If the FO was right to draft him in the 3rd and everything comes together for him this year we might be talking about a long term starter upgrade at MLB pulled from effectively out of nowhere.Well said!

Bmore Manning
05-21-2012, 11:23 AM
The uninformed posters think manning is just one of 53
They don't understand how much better practices will be
Accountabilty and confidence that Denver will step onto the field every game with arguably the best player at the most important position

Please stop making soooo much sense! :)

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 11:24 AM
And the bolded part is why I'm fed up. I've already made my point known, and I stick by it. If you don't get fed up over repeatedly replacing the position that was not the weakest link on the team in hopes for someone else to step in and turn things around, then I don't really know what else to say.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3525028&postcount=687

From me, all Bowlen gets is this year to improve upon last year. I don't have another "just another couple years" in me after the last decade and a half.

If you really want to see me stop posting, just root for the Broncos to not win a playoff game this year. That's all it will take.

Wow.

Bmore Manning
05-21-2012, 11:25 AM
Del Rio is running a similar scheme as Benedict Allen, doesn't mean its the same. Del Rio's track record is a whole lot stronger and more consistent than Allen, who was very hit and miss last year.

He's as big an addition as you could ask for on defense.


I'd argue that Adams could be a significant addition. Dawkins was a great in the box weapon but he wasn't consistently healthy and was a liability in coverage. Carter was solid all around but obviously felt more comfortable playing the SS role instead of the FS role. When Dawkins was out we relied on Rahim Moore, David Bruton, and worse to fill in.

Adams now lets Carter lock into SS where he's most comfortable. Carter isn't the play maker of Dawkins but he's more capable in coverage and is a solid run defender in his own right.

Adams is a better FS than we had on the entire team last year. Moore might have the light come on and take the job, but if does it's because he took a huge step up.

So we've effectively improve both safety spots over the course of 16 games by signing one guy.

We've also made a noteworthy improvement at #2, #3, and #4 CB. All of which are valuable contributor roles. Florence is better than Goodman. Porter is better than Goodman. Harris is still here and can provide depth across the secondary. Some nice pick ups to shore up the DBs.

At LB we're going to see what Nate Irving has. If the FO was right to draft him in the 3rd and everything comes together for him this year we might be talking about a long term starter upgrade at MLB pulled from effectively out of nowhere.

I tried telling Pricey this 20 posts ago!

houghtam
05-21-2012, 11:25 AM
Wow.

What, is this a surprise to you? I've been saying it for months.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 11:27 AM
What, is this a surprise to you? I've been saying it for months.

Sorry I didn't know you was that big of a troll.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 11:45 AM
Sorry I didn't know you was that big of a troll.

Imagine you buy a cellphone from a certain company. This company is well-known for having good cell phones, maybe not the greatest, but it's won its fair share of awards. Let's say after being a loyal customer for years, they install a new operating system, find out it sucks, but stick with it a really long time. They finally replace it for one that doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but does what you need it to do. Meanwhile, the case falls apart, the screen cracks, but it never drops calls and does what it needs to. What does the cellphone company do? They replace the OS. Well the new OS isn't compatible with a lot of stuff on the market and has a lot of bugs, a lot of which the tekkies think can be improved. But instead, a new CEO comes in and gets rid of that OS. The new one is just awful, but there's another one waiting in the wings that, although it's rough around the edges, still manages to get the job done. New CEO comes in, meanwhile, the case is still falling apart, the screen still cracks, and the phone is just a total POS. What does the new CEO do? Scrap the OS again and add a different OS that some consider the best of all time. Phone still sucks, but man it looks cool.

How long would you stick with that company? I'm a consumer of the Denver Broncos. I'm a fan, but I'm also a consumer. If I don't agree with the way a company is being run, I have every right to spend my money elsewhere, or not at all.

You also have every right to criticize me, but it won't change anything, and only makes you look like someone trying to be a superfan.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 11:51 AM
Imagine you buy a cellphone from a certain company. This company is well-known for having good cell phones, maybe not the greatest, but it's won its fair share of awards. Let's say after being a loyal customer for years, they install a new operating system, find out it sucks, but stick with it a really long time. They finally replace it for one that doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but does what you need it to do. Meanwhile, the case falls apart, the screen cracks, but it never drops calls and does what it needs to. What does the cellphone company do? They replace the OS. Well the new OS isn't compatible with a lot of stuff on the market and has a lot of bugs, a lot of which the tekkies think can be improved. But instead, a new CEO comes in and gets rid of that OS. The new one is just awful, but there's another one waiting in the wings that, although it's rough around the edges, still manages to get the job done. New CEO comes in, meanwhile, the case is still falling apart, the screen still cracks, and the phone is just a total POS. What does the new CEO do? Scrap the OS again and add a different OS that some consider the best of all time. Phone still sucks, but man it looks cool.

How long would you stick with that company? I'm a consumer of the Denver Broncos. I'm a fan, but I'm also a consumer. If I don't agree with the way a company is being run, I have every right to spend my money elsewhere, or not at all.

You also have every right to criticize me, but it won't change anything, and only makes you look like someone trying to be a superfan.

Me calling you a troll for not want the team to be successful doesn't make me a super fan. Hilarious!

Beantown Bronco
05-21-2012, 11:51 AM
Imagine you buy a cellphone from a certain company.......
How long would you stick with that company? I'm a consumer of the Denver Broncos. I'm a fan, but I'm also a consumer. If I don't agree with the way a company is being run, I have every right to spend my money elsewhere, or not at all.

You also have every right to criticize me, but it won't change anything, and only makes you look like someone trying to be a superfan.

Bad analogy IMO. Boycotting a company that wrongs you is one thing. Boycotting the Mane, which has zero relation to said company that you believe is wronging you, are two completely different things.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 11:53 AM
Bad analogy IMO. Boycotting a company that wrongs you is one thing. Boycotting the Mane, which has zero relation to said company that you believe is wronging you, are two completely different things.

Plus he didn't have to sign a long term contract to be a fan!

Bmore Manning
05-21-2012, 11:54 AM
Imagine you buy a cellphone from a certain company. This company is well-known for having good cell phones, maybe not the greatest, but it's won its fair share of awards. Let's say after being a loyal customer for years, they install a new operating system, find out it sucks, but stick with it a really long time. They finally replace it for one that doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but does what you need it to do. Meanwhile, the case falls apart, the screen cracks, but it never drops calls and does what it needs to. What does the cellphone company do? They replace the OS. Well the new OS isn't compatible with a lot of stuff on the market and has a lot of bugs, a lot of which the tekkies think can be improved. But instead, a new CEO comes in and gets rid of that OS. The new one is just awful, but there's another one waiting in the wings that, although it's rough around the edges, still manages to get the job done. New CEO comes in, meanwhile, the case is still falling apart, the screen still cracks, and the phone is just a total POS. What does the new CEO do? Scrap the OS again and add a different OS that some consider the best of all time. Phone still sucks, but man it looks cool.

How long would you stick with that company? I'm a consumer of the Denver Broncos. I'm a fan, but I'm also a consumer. If I don't agree with the way a company is being run, I have every right to spend my money elsewhere, or not at all.

You also have every right to criticize me, but it won't change anything, and only makes you look like someone trying to be a superfan.

That's such an exaggeration and horrible comparison. There's turnover everywhere in life guy. The Colts just dumped the GOAT for a bells and whistles type fresh model. Guess who happens to be the beneficiary? The Denver Broncos! You need to look at it like they just got an older muscle car, with a brand new engine. If your not a Tebow fan, you should be ecstatic Denver has Peyton. The SBs are coming!

houghtam
05-21-2012, 11:56 AM
Me calling you a troll for not want the team to be successful doesn't make me a super fan. Hilarious!

How have I demonstrated that I don't want the team to be successful?

The bolded part of my post that you quoted was a response to Shanahanahanan...he said I should stop posting, and I told him that if he wants me to stop, he should root for the Broncos not to win a playoff game, not me.

I will be rooting for the Broncos just like anyone else this year. I just have an ultimatum that the team will have to live up to this year in order for them to continue to receive my money. I've got another kid on the way now and only one income coming in anyway...I'm sure I can find better things to spend my money on, if need be. If that makes me a troll, then so be it.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 11:59 AM
Bad analogy IMO. Boycotting a company that wrongs you is one thing. Boycotting the Mane, which has zero relation to said company that you believe is wronging you, are two completely different things.

Really? Two completely different things? Would the Mane exist without the Broncos? Would you be here if it weren't a Broncos message board? I'll stop posting because I won't be following or supporting the Broncos anymore. I'm not just going to quit posting here and continue supporting the Broncos in private.

Edit: And come on, Beantown. You and several others on this board have known me since long before I joined the Mane. You can even use ten year old posts from the old board if you need to, but am I someone you would describe as "reactionary?" No. I defended Shanahan for years until I finally got fed up. I own a freaking Cutler jersey. I was for giving McDaniels a shot until, well, we know how that ended.

It's finally come to a head. I'm fed up. It really couldn't get any simpler.

Beantown Bronco
05-21-2012, 12:03 PM
Really? Two completely different things? Would the Mane exist without the Broncos? Would you be here if it weren't a Broncos message board? I'll stop posting because I won't be following or supporting the Broncos anymore. I'm not just going to quit posting here and continue supporting the Broncos in private.

I'm talking financially....like you supposedly are above.

I haven't supported the NFL financially since the lockout began. Not one penny. Before that, I was spending between $1,000 and $3,000 per year on Sunday ticket, merchandise and game tix depending on if it was a "Denver road trip" year and if they were playing here in NE.

I don't spend a penny. But I still post here.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 12:06 PM
I'm talking financially....like you supposedly are above.

I haven't supported the NFL financially since the lockout began. Not one penny. Before that, I was spending between $1,000 and $3,000 per year on Sunday ticket, merchandise and game tix depending on if it was a "Denver road trip" year and if they were playing here in NE.

I don't spend a penny. But I still post here.

If you watch Broncos games, you're still supporting the NFL and the team.

pricejj
05-21-2012, 12:07 PM
Del Rio is running a similar scheme as Benedict Allen, doesn't mean its the same. Del Rio's track record is a whole lot stronger and more consistent than Allen, who was very hit and miss last year.

He's as big an addition as you could ask for on defense.

I agree. The FO has pretty much upgraded as much as they possibly could in the offseason (with the exception of NT). Hopefully the Defense can be special.



At LB we're going to see what Nate Irving has. If the FO was right to draft him in the 3rd and everything comes together for him this year we might be talking about a long term starter upgrade at MLB pulled from effectively out of nowhere.

Mays is the starter.

1. You don't pay a guy $4M per year to sit the bench.
2. And you definitely don't pay a Mays $4M per year (for 3 years) if Irving had shown any indication that he could start at MLB in the NFL.
3. You also don't sign 2 UDFA's who can play MLB, if you thought Irving was starting MLB material.

Beantown Bronco
05-21-2012, 12:10 PM
If you watch Broncos games, you're still supporting the NFL and the team.

That's not true. Not financially, at least.....unless you are in a Nielsen home. I am not.

Wes Mantooth
05-21-2012, 12:10 PM
Imagine you buy a cellphone from a certain company. This company is well-known for having good cell phones, maybe not the greatest, but it's won its fair share of awards. Let's say after being a loyal customer for years, they install a new operating system, find out it sucks, but stick with it a really long time. They finally replace it for one that doesn't have all the bells and whistles, but does what you need it to do. Meanwhile, the case falls apart, the screen cracks, but it never drops calls and does what it needs to. What does the cellphone company do? They replace the OS. Well the new OS isn't compatible with a lot of stuff on the market and has a lot of bugs, a lot of which the tekkies think can be improved. But instead, a new CEO comes in and gets rid of that OS. The new one is just awful, but there's another one waiting in the wings that, although it's rough around the edges, still manages to get the job done. New CEO comes in, meanwhile, the case is still falling apart, the screen still cracks, and the phone is just a total POS. What does the new CEO do? Scrap the OS again and add a different OS that some consider the best of all time. Phone still sucks, but man it looks cool.

How long would you stick with that company? I'm a consumer of the Denver Broncos. I'm a fan, but I'm also a consumer. If I don't agree with the way a company is being run, I have every right to spend my money elsewhere, or not at all.

You also have every right to criticize me, but it won't change anything, and only makes you look like someone trying to be a superfan.

Imagine growing up a Bronco fan.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 12:12 PM
I agree. The FO has pretty much upgraded as much as they possibly could in the offseason (with the exception of NT). Hopefully the Defense can be special.





Mays is the starter.

1. You don't pay a guy $4M per year to sit the bench.
2. And you definitely don't pay a Mays $4M per year (for 3 years) if Irving had shown any indication that he could start at MLB in the NFL.
3. You also don't sign 2 UDFA's who can play MLB, if you thought Irving was starting MLB material.Hilarious!

houghtam
05-21-2012, 12:12 PM
Imagine growing up a Bronco fan.

I don't have to imagine it. I did.

Wes Mantooth
05-21-2012, 12:14 PM
I don't have to imagine it. I did.

Then what the hell are you talking about?

houghtam
05-21-2012, 12:14 PM
That's not true. Not financially, at least.....unless you are in a Nielsen home. I am not.

Then you are underestimating the affect commercials have on you. If you didn't spend money because of advertising that you see, there would be no reason to advertise during Broncos games, or anywhere else for that matter.

Unless, let me guess, you're one of those people that "commercials don't affect me?"

houghtam
05-21-2012, 12:15 PM
Then what the hell are you talking about?

So if you grew up a fan, you can't get fed up with your team? Got it. Thanks for clearing that up, superfan.

MagicHef
05-21-2012, 12:17 PM
If Dumervil and Miller can both stay healthy this season, that will be another huge upgrade over last season.

Beantown Bronco
05-21-2012, 12:21 PM
Then you are underestimating the affect commercials have on you. If you didn't spend money because of advertising that you see, there would be no reason to advertise during Broncos games, or anywhere else for that matter.

Unless, let me guess, you're one of those people that "commercials don't affect me?"

They don't. I don't watch the games live for the most part. I record and tivo through the commercials. But let's pretend I don't. The goal of their commercials is to get you to buy their products. To do that, they must be memorable.

Of those that I've actually watched, the only sponsors I can even remember are:

beer companies like Bud light, miller lite, coors light and dos equis. I don't buy any of these beers, with the exception of dos equis for my annual cinco de mayo party. NFL has zero role in this purchase.

Car companies. Same here. My current cars have never been advertised during an NFL game.

Coke, pepsi and specific snacks like doritos, fritos and chips? I honestly don't buy these items at all, and I'm the primary grocery shopper in my house.

I could go on.

[Edit: I just checked a few websites for "top nfl sponsors" and the following, in addition to what I mentioned above, seem to round out the top __ lists:

Hotel (Marriott) - never stayed in one that I know of
Wireless service provider (Verizon) - never had them. I've had AT&T pre-merger and now Virgin Mobile
Credit card (Visa) - I actually dumped my "official Broncos Visa" last year
Pizza (Papa John's) - don't have one anywhere near me
Shipping services (FedEx) - our firm requires this when overnight shipping is required, not because of nfl sponsorship
Automotive (General Motors) - never owned one
Sports/energy drink (Gatorade) - don't drink this...burns a hole in my stomach

houghtam
05-21-2012, 12:25 PM
They don't. I don't watch the games live for the most part. I record and tivo through the commercials. But let's pretend I don't. The goal of their commercials is to get you to buy their products. To do that, they must be memorable.

Of those that I've actually watched, the only sponsors I can even remember are:

beer companies like Bud light, miller lite, coors light and dos equis. I don't buy any of these beers, with the exception of dos equis for my annual cinco de mayo party. NFL has zero role in this purchase.

Car companies. Same here. My current cars have never been advertised during an NFL game.

Coke, pepsi and specific snacks like doritos, fritos and chips? I honestly don't buy these items at all, and I'm the primary grocery shopper in my house.

I could go on.

Gotcha.

That puts you in with the other 75% of people who think advertising doesn't affect them. Yet those marketing budgets keep getting higher and higher. That other 25% must do a lot of spending.

Shananahan
05-21-2012, 12:30 PM
Just to be clear, houghtam, your opinion is that Denver is a worse team right now than they were last year, yes?

Beantown Bronco
05-21-2012, 12:34 PM
Gotcha.

That puts you in with the other 75% of people who think advertising doesn't affect them. Yet those marketing budgets keep getting higher and higher. That other 25% must do a lot of spending.

Look. It's a chicken or the egg argument. There's no doubt people do a lot of spending on those items. They're popular. Why? Is it because they advertise during the nfl? Or is it because they advertise during everything? Or is it because they buy up prime real estate in the stores that carry them? Or is it because they circulate coupons? Is it because people's parents bought them growing up, so it's all they know?

There's no way to prove that if a company spends xx dollars on ads during the NFL, they will get xx dollars back in revenue.

For me, it comes down to this: if Bud Light DIDN'T spend the usual $50 mil or whatever it is they spend on each SB, their revenue wouldn't go down by a penny IMO.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 12:38 PM
Just to be clear, houghtam, your opinion is that Denver is a worse team right now than they were last year, yes?

I can't say that, which is why I'm giving them this year to show what they can do. What I can say, as I and many others on this board have, is that I don't agree that we were a QB away from a SB, and that the money spent on Manning would have been better spent somewhere else. I also am not of the opinion that a QB like Tebow or an offensive scheme like we ran last year can't be successful in the NFL if surrounded by the right talent.

Why not give them a few years to get the system in place, you ask? Because I've done that. I did with Griese. I did with Plummer. I did with Cutler. I did with Orton. I was going to with Tebow.

Not anymore.

Shananahan
05-21-2012, 12:41 PM
So you waited until they acquired a HOF quarterback to lose your patience.

Gotcha.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 12:44 PM
So you waited until they acquired a HOF quarterback to lose your patience.

Gotcha.

Hilarious! yep. That's exactly what happened. When Cutler was creating turnovers in the red zone, the whole time I was thinking "Gee, I can't wait until the Broncos sign a HOF quarterback. Then I'll really be mad!"

Drek
05-21-2012, 01:31 PM
Mays is the starter.

1. You don't pay a guy $4M per year to sit the bench.
2. And you definitely don't pay a Mays $4M per year (for 3 years) if Irving had shown any indication that he could start at MLB in the NFL.
3. You also don't sign 2 UDFA's who can play MLB, if you thought Irving was starting MLB material.

That 3 year, $12M deal has $4M guaranteed, i.e. nothing but year one is guaranteed.

They've set it up for Mays to come in as the incumbent and take the next step, but the door has been left wide open for Irving to take it from him. The two UDFAs are low cost insurance bets on neither of Mays or Irving getting it done.

I think the "Idiot Cannonball" nickname is perfectly apt with Mays but I'm also not disingenuous enough to let my distaste for his shortcomings last year to completely cloud my perspective for this year. Mays will now be spending year 2 back in a 4-3 since coming to Denver, getting his first off-season of work in this system, and working with a good former LB, great LB coach, and very good DC all rolled in one with JDR. The chances he doesn't make at least marginal improvement over what he gave us last year is pretty slim.

Now take those benefits and apply them to Nate Irving who is a better athlete with better coverage technique and younger. Put him under JDR's tutelage for the whole OTAs/camp/pre-season. I'd say there is some reason to be bullish on Irving long term as well.

That honestly is a big missed point in the whole Benedict Allen being replaced with JDR. Not just that JDR is a good defensive coach, but that our weakest unit for overall play last year were the LBs. Del Rio has always had some pretty solid LB play everywhere he's been. We've already got Champ regulating the DBs on the field and Fox is a former DBs guy himself. Now we have Del Rio giving us that same level of expertise with the front seven in general and LBs in particular.

Wes Mantooth
05-21-2012, 02:09 PM
So if you grew up a fan, you can't get fed up with your team? Got it. Thanks for clearing that up, superfan.

Well I certainly don't care to be an objective fan. Thought you were always suppose to stick with your team through thick and thin. In fact, I always thought watching and following your favorite team was always suppose to be a departure from reality.

I guess if you have come to the conclusion watching Bronco football equates choosing a cell phone carrier or deciding which smart phone os to buy, you should move on.

Good luck.

pricejj
05-21-2012, 02:41 PM
Hilarious!

Oh, you think Irving will be starting MLB this year too? Or EVER for that matter? I definitely would be willing to wager on that.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 02:45 PM
Oh, you think Irving will be starting MLB this year too? Or EVER for that matter? I definitely would be willing to wager on that.

I will take that bet that he will get more playing time then the UDFA's. Hilarious!

pricejj
05-21-2012, 03:10 PM
That 3 year, $12M deal has $4M guaranteed, i.e. nothing but year one is guaranteed.

They've set it up for Mays to come in as the incumbent and take the next step, but the door has been left wide open for Irving to take it from him. The two UDFAs are low cost insurance bets on neither of Mays or Irving getting it done.

I think the "Idiot Cannonball" nickname is perfectly apt with Mays but I'm also not disingenuous enough to let my distaste for his shortcomings last year to completely cloud my perspective for this year. Mays will now be spending year 2 back in a 4-3 since coming to Denver, getting his first off-season of work in this system, and working with a good former LB, great LB coach, and very good DC all rolled in one with JDR. The chances he doesn't make at least marginal improvement over what he gave us last year is pretty slim.

I like Mays, he's a good player, a good guy, and was probably the best option going into this year (unless you think we should have drafted Hightower...too bad we didn't need a QBOTF eh?). However, he is simply too slow (4.9 forty) to ever be anything more than a liability in pass coverage.

Now take those benefits and apply them to Nate Irving who is a better athlete with better coverage technique and younger. Put him under JDR's tutelage for the whole OTAs/camp/pre-season. I'd say there is some reason to be bullish on Irving long term as well.


I had high hopes for Irving coming out of the draft...but we literally have seen nothing that would indicate he can become a player in the NFL. Compounding this is the fact that he has a metal rod in his leg. I hope he develops into something special...but from what I've seen, I have my doubts.

I think Danny Trevathan is a better prospect at MLB, honestly.


I will take that bet that he will get more playing time then the UDFA's. Hilarious!

The point is that the Broncos are not sold on who we have at MLB. Do you have anything to dispute that, or are you just nitpicking posts?

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 03:19 PM
I like Mays, he's a good player, a good guy, and was probably the best option going into this year (unless you think we should have drafted Hightower...too bad we didn't need a QBOTF eh?). However, he is simply too slow (4.9 forty) to ever be anything more than a liability in pass coverage.



I had high hopes for Irving coming out of the draft...but we literally have seen nothing that would indicate he can become a player in the NFL. Compounding this is the fact that he has a metal rod in his leg. I hope he develops into something special...but from what I've seen, I have my doubts.

I think Danny Trevathan is a better prospect at MLB, honestly.




The point is that the Broncos are not sold on who we have at MLB. Do you have anything to dispute that, or are you just nitpicking posts?

Um Denver brought back Mays and didn't draft another MLB. I think that says they are sold on either Mays or Irving. Signing a couple of camp scrubs doesn't help your point at all. :giggle:

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 03:22 PM
Danny Trevathan at MLB? A 230 pound MLB? Are you ****ing nuts?

pricejj
05-21-2012, 03:35 PM
Danny Trevathan at MLB? A 230 pound MLB? Are you ****ing nuts?

Danny Trevathan is 237 lbs.
Al Wilson is 239 lbs.

Similar size, speed, and production. Trevathan is an Al Wilson clone.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 03:40 PM
Danny Trevathan is 237 lbs.
Al Wilson is 239 lbs.

Similar size, speed, and production. Trevathan is an Al Wilson clone.

He doesn't weight 237, he didn't run a 4.56 40 time like Al. STFU up with calling him a Al Willson clone.

pricejj
05-21-2012, 03:41 PM
Um Denver brought back Mays and didn't draft another MLB. I think that says they are sold on either Mays or Irving. Signing a couple of camp scrubs doesn't help your point at all. :giggle:

I didn't say they weren't "sold" on Mays for the 2011 season. However, he has some limitations that have been well documented.

Like I said, I don't think Irving will ever play MLB for the Broncos.

Tombstone RJ
05-21-2012, 03:42 PM
Irving is expected to be the Broncos next MLBer. Mays has a 1 year contract and after this year he's probably finished as the starting MLB. The Broncos want Irving to be the guy but if he can't do it might be a guy like Franklin or Trevathan or maybe the kid from KU.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 03:47 PM
http://s17.postimage.org/vmsr5g1ov/wilson_denver_broncos_autographed_photograph_333.j pg (http://postimage.org/)
upload pictures (http://postimage.org/)
http://s17.postimage.org/dy10dtpxr/Trevathan_cw.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image hosting adult (http://postimage.org/)
http://s17.postimage.org/wjz6ebd73/wilson.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
upload pictures (http://postimage.org/)
Yeah they look so close.....

pricejj
05-21-2012, 03:48 PM
He doesn't weight 237

Really? That's weird, because he did at the combine.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=84691&draftyear=2012&genpos=OLB

He is also 1/2" taller than Al Wilson, and could put on 5 lbs. easy, without slowing him down at all.

he didn't run a 4.56 40 time like Al. STFU up with calling him a Al Willson clone.

Well, Trevathan ran 4.45 a few years ago...4.56 is probably pretty dang close to his actual forty time.

http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/trevathan_danny00.html

Trevathan's college production was unreal, and he showed flashes in rookie mini-camp. I think he may have what it takes to start at MLB.

Trevathan or maybe the kid from KU.

same guy

pricejj
05-21-2012, 03:52 PM
Yeah they look so close.....

So let me get this straight...

You are disputing that scales are weighing Trevathan wrong?

Tombstone RJ
05-21-2012, 03:55 PM
same guy

The kid from Kansas homey.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 03:56 PM
Really? That's weird, because he did at the combine.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=84691&draftyear=2012&genpos=OLB

He is also 1/2" taller than Al Wilson, and could put on 5 lbs. easy, without slowing him down at all.



Well, Trevathan ran 4.45 a few years ago...4.56 is probably pretty dang close to his actual forty time.

http://www.ukathletics.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/trevathan_danny00.html

Trevathan's college production was unreal, and he showed flashes in rookie mini-camp. I think he may have what it takes to start at MLB.

Lol putting on combine weight is SOOOOOOO much different then NFL playing weight. Hell I bet he is about 230 after rookie camp now.

He ran a 4.84 just this year so I think 4.84 is closer to his real time then your made up 4.56.

The fact that his college playing weight was around 230 and that extra 7 pounds he put on for the combine slowed him from a 4.5 to a 4.8 means he can't put on another 5 pounds and not slow down.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 03:57 PM
So let me get this straight...

You are disputing that scales are weighing Trevathan wrong?

Are you saying Trevathan looks two pounds lighter then Al Wilson by looking at those pictures???

pricejj
05-21-2012, 04:05 PM
Are you saying Trevathan looks two pounds lighter then Al Wilson by looking at those pictures???

Trevathan added 15 lbs. of muscle to his frame after his Sophomore year, and has been playing around 237 ever since. The picture I posted, shows Trevathan is pretty jacked.

Danny Trevathan 225 lb. bench reps - 18
Al Wilson 225 lb. bench reps - 17



Yeah, I'm rooting for Trevathan. :sunshine:

pricejj
05-21-2012, 04:07 PM
Lol putting on combine weight is SOOOOOOO much different then NFL playing weight. Hell I bet he is about 230 after rookie camp now.

He ran a 4.84 just this year so I think 4.84 is closer to his real time then your made up 4.56.

The fact that his college playing weight was around 230 and that extra 7 pounds he put on for the combine slowed him from a 4.5 to a 4.8 means he can't put on another 5 pounds and not slow down.

Like I said, he ran a 4.45 in High School. He had a pulled hamstring at the combine.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 04:08 PM
Trevathan added 15 lbs. of muscle to his frame after his Sophomore year, and has been playing around 237 ever since. The picture I posted, shows Trevathan is pretty jacked.

Danny Trevathan 225 lb. bench reps - 18
Al Wilson 225 lb. bench reps - 17



Yeah, I'm rooting for Trevathan. :sunshine:

Al Wilson didn't need to bulk up to play MLB in the NFL. That means he didn't lose the weight he bulked up to during the season. Trevathan isn't 237 and didn't play that at that weight. There are EQUAL as many things on the web saying he is 230. Even if he bulked up to 237 or the combine during an NFL season where you don't lift as often and you take a beating he will be down to 230 or less by the end of the season. This happened to Portis EVERY year.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 04:11 PM
Like I said, he ran a 4.45 in High School. He had a pulled hamstring at the combine.

He isn't getting faster as he gets older and bigger.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 04:24 PM
You are drunk if you think this....

http://s14.postimage.org/yfhezb74x/bronco.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
[/url]

Is 3 pounds less then this....

http://s7.postimage.org/p3sidbzy3/alwilson.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
[url=http://postimage.org/]

mhgaffney
05-21-2012, 04:29 PM
drunk is good.

kappys
05-21-2012, 04:29 PM
Nothing like the offseason where newly minted 6th round pick equals best Broncos MLB in the last 20 years.

DENVERDUI55
05-21-2012, 04:42 PM
You are drunk if you think this....

http://s14.postimage.org/yfhezb74x/bronco.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
[/url]

Is 3 pounds less then this....

http://s7.postimage.org/p3sidbzy3/alwilson.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
[url=http://postimage.org/]

Funny shiat two guys arguing weight through pictures.

lonestar
05-21-2012, 05:53 PM
Oh, you mean the year he had his best season as a pro? Do you understand what an OLB is asked to do in a 3-4?

yes cover TE in the flat and stop the run when it comes their way.. Two things he has proved he can do yet..

let him rush the passer on passing downs there are few better.. but still a one trick pony..

pricejj
05-21-2012, 06:34 PM
You are drunk if you think this....

http://s14.postimage.org/yfhezb74x/bronco.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
[/url]

Is 3 pounds less then this....

http://s7.postimage.org/p3sidbzy3/alwilson.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
[url=http://postimage.org/]

Show a shirtless picture of Trevathan if that's the route you're going.

Nothing like the offseason where newly minted 6th round pick equals best Broncos MLB in the last 20 years.

All I said, is that I think Trevathan may be the best MLB on the roster. He is also the same size as Al Wilson, the same speed, and he has great production. He'll get his chance, and I'm rooting for him.

houghtam
05-21-2012, 06:37 PM
Show a shirtless picture of Trevathan if that's the route you're going.



All I said, is that I think Trevathan may be the best MLB on the roster. He is also the same size as Al Wilson, the same speed, and he has great production. He'll get his chance, and I'm rooting for him.

Can we get sirhcyennek in here? He might be uniquely qualified to judge a guy's weight. We'll have our answer once and for all.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 06:44 PM
Show a shirtless picture of Trevathan if that's the route you're going.



All I said, is that I think Trevathan may be the best MLB on the roster. He is also the same size as Al Wilson, the same speed, and he has great production. He'll get his chance, and I'm rooting for him.

All false.

baja
05-21-2012, 06:51 PM
Al Wilson was a thumper, I ask you does this guy Trevathan look like a thumper to you?

RaiderH8r
05-21-2012, 08:22 PM
Danny Trevathan is 237 lbs.
Al Wilson is 239 lbs.

Similar size, speed, and production. Trevathan is an Al Wilson clone.

No. He. Isn't.

baja
05-21-2012, 08:31 PM
No. He. Isn't.

This guy looks more like Ian Gold than Al Wilson.

errand
05-21-2012, 08:38 PM
I don't think our offense is going to keep offenses off the field as much as people think, and I have a feeling it is going to be us playing from behind, not the other teams.

You do realize we changed QB's, right?

pricejj
05-21-2012, 08:43 PM
Al Wilson was a thumper, I ask you does this guy Trevathan look like a thumper to you?

No, Trevathan doesn't hit with authority like Al Wilson did. Al Wilson was definitely a thumper. Trevathan is not. You are right. That is a very important quality in an MLB.

Tombstone RJ
05-21-2012, 08:45 PM
Steven Johnson is another interesting LBer prospect, he's the UDFA from KU (Kansas University) not UK (University of Kentucky). He played OLB in college but he's built more along the lines of Al Wilson in that he's 6'1" and 240lbs.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 08:48 PM
This guy looks more like Ian Gold than Al Wilson.

Everyone in the world compared him to Wesley Woodyard. Price compared him to Al Wilson. I'm not shocked though he compared Brock Osweiler to Leinart.

pricejj
05-21-2012, 08:57 PM
Everyone in the world compared him to Wesley Woodyard. Price compared him to Al Wilson. I'm not shocked though he compared Brock Osweiler to Leinart.

Wes is 227 lb. Trevathan may turn out to be like Woodyard, but I was hoping for more. I wasn't high on Osweiler pre-draft, but he is a Bronco now. With some time to develop, he could be a franchise QB someday. Brosweiler is kinda growing on me. The dude is pretty gnarly in a broham sorta way.

Tombstone RJ
05-21-2012, 08:57 PM
Jerry Franklin played MLB at Arkansas, he's 6'1" and 245lbs, ran like a 4.64 forty or something. Still, he went undrafted for a reason. I don't know if he's a "thumper" either.

errand
05-21-2012, 09:00 PM
Are you saying Trevathan looks two pounds lighter then Al Wilson by looking at those pictures???

In fairness, you're posting a pick of Al Wilson after he had the benefit of NFL weight training and diet vs. a college kid that didn't.....

pricejj
05-21-2012, 09:00 PM
Franklin is way too tentative. The dude has prototypical size...but doesn't get in the hole quick enough, and kinda gets owned sometimes.

Tombstone RJ
05-21-2012, 09:03 PM
Franklin is way too tentative. The dude has prototypical size...but doesn't get in the hole quick enough, and kinda gets owned sometimes.

What's your "expert" analysis on Steven Johnson? THE KID FROM KU.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 09:05 PM
In fairness, you're posting a pick of Al Wilson after he had the benefit of NFL weight training and diet vs. a college kid that didn't.....

I posted Al in college as well. Al Wilson was always bigger then this dude.

DBroncos4life
05-21-2012, 09:09 PM
Wes is 227 lb. Trevathan may turn out to be like Woodyard, but I was hoping for more. I wasn't high on Osweiler pre-draft, but he is a Bronco now. With some time to develop, he could be a franchise QB someday. Brosweiler is kinda growing on me. The dude is pretty gnarly in a broham sorta way.

Our team page has Trevathan listed at 232 lb. He is closer to Wes then Al Hilarious!

NorCalBronco7
05-21-2012, 09:18 PM
Mays is hands down the best MLB the Broncos have. Trevathan is an OLB, and the comparisons to Al Wilson is ridiculous.

pricejj
05-21-2012, 09:31 PM
What's your "expert" analysis on Steven Johnson? THE KID FROM KU.

I can't find any tape on him, so not sure...Kansas got the **** kicked out of them all year though. Thanks for the heads up. I'll check him out in preseason.

pricejj
10-31-2012, 01:51 PM
Just thought I'd pull this gem up for all to see...

After the draft, I predicted that Trevathan would be playing MLB for the Broncos...and that he would do pretty well.

PFF says that he was playing MLB against the Saints...

What of you that said he was too small to play MLB? DB4L? SPEAK NOW!!!


(vindication is mine....again.) score another for pricejj :strong:

pricejj
10-31-2012, 01:54 PM
Our team page has Trevathan listed at 232 lb. He is closer to Wes then Al Hilarious!

WHERE ARE YOUR PICTURES NOW DB4L?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Danny_Trevathan.JPG/250px-Danny_Trevathan.JPG

DBroncos4life
10-31-2012, 01:57 PM
Just thought I'd pull this gem up for all to see...

After the draft, I predicted that Trevathan would be playing MLB for the Broncos...and that he would do pretty well.

PFF says that he was playing MLB against the Saints...

What of you that said he was too small to play MLB? DB4L? SPEAK NOW!!!


(vindication is mine....again.) score another for pricejj :strong:

LOL Nickel MLB because Mays sucks and hurt and Brooking is too old. If you really think he can be a starting 4-3 MLB you are nuts.

DBroncos4life
10-31-2012, 02:00 PM
WHERE ARE YOUR PICTURES NOW DB4L?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Danny_Trevathan.JPG/250px-Danny_Trevathan.JPG

Dude your ****ing dumb ass deleted every ****ing dumb post you ever made so no one could bump it. He is not AL Wilson size get over it. My god dude got some playing time and you jerk off allover yourself Ha!

fontaine
10-31-2012, 02:08 PM
Trevathan largely played at Will with Woodyard shifting over at Mike.

I like what I saw from him. Decent in coverage, had good closing speed but it was just a handful of plays with Graham not at 100%.

But there's defenitely something there to work with.

DBroncos4life
10-31-2012, 02:10 PM
Trevathan largely played at Will with Woodyard shifting over at Mike.

I like what I saw from him. Decent in coverage, had good closing speed but it was just a handful of plays with Graham not at 100%.

But there's defenitely something there to work with.

Oh so super youtube scout just called me out and was wrong? LOL

pricejj
10-31-2012, 02:18 PM
LOL Nickel MLB because Mays sucks and hurt and Brooking is too old. If you really think he can be a starting 4-3 MLB you are nuts.

We don't really run a 4-3 with Von...we run a 4-2 Nickel (or 5-2)...and Trevathan is perfect for that.

PFF listed him as playing MLB against the Saints, so smoke that. Where are your shirtless pictures DB4L?

Let's see...
1. right on Wolfe
2. right on extensive use of the Manning No-Huddle, and Gronkowski only playing a few plays per game
3. right on Trevathan

BOOM-SHAKA-LOCKA!!

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Champ+Bailey+New+Orleans+Saints+v+Denver+Broncos+m Cgragbb1rLl.jpg

DBroncos4life
10-31-2012, 02:22 PM
We don't really run a 4-3 with Von...we run a 4-2 Nickel (or 5-2)...and Trevathan is perfect for that.

PFF listed him as playing MLB against the Saints, so smoke that. Where are your shirtless pictures DB4L?

Let's see...
1. right on Wolfe
2. right on extensive use of the Manning No-Huddle, and Gronkowski only playing a few plays per game
3. right on Trevathan

BOOM-SHAKA-LOCKA!!

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Champ+Bailey+New+Orleans+Saints+v+Denver+Broncos+m Cgragbb1rLl.jpg

Trevathan largely played at Will with Woodyard shifting over at Mike.

I like what I saw from him. Decent in coverage, had good closing speed but it was just a handful of plays with Graham not at 100%.

But there's defenitely so mething there to work with.

LOL

pricejj
10-31-2012, 02:26 PM
LOL

IAOFM.com on Trevathan -

"his reps with the nickel package were at MLB (according to PFF), so hes been learning a new position. More power to him. He was on the field for nearly half the defensive snaps. John Foxs comment on him was succinct: I've been impressed with his development."

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/

(Carry on...carry on DB4L...my day of vindication has come, and I have conquered.)

DENVERDUI55
10-31-2012, 02:40 PM
Thank you Jack for making Big Vick a big clog in the middle and finally "Turning the likes of Unrein/Bannon Loose" all while cooking meth up for Wolfe.

Agamemnon
10-31-2012, 06:18 PM
IAOFM.com on Trevathan -

"his reps with the nickel package were at MLB (according to PFF), so hes been learning a new position. More power to him. He was on the field for nearly half the defensive snaps. John Foxs comment on him was succinct: I've been impressed with his development."

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/

(Carry on...carry on DB4L...my day of vindication has come, and I have conquered.)

I have to say it was refreshing to see a LB out there who could actually cover a tight end. Graham was still catching some balls on him, but at least he was right there, ready to make the tackle when he did.

errand
10-31-2012, 06:32 PM
Fox did quite well using an undersized LB....Thomas Davis was a college safety if memory serves me right.....he was listed as 6'1" and 225 a couple seasons ago....he's up to 235 now or so they say.

Perhaps he sees Trevathan as a likely guy to play that role on this team?

Lev Vyvanse
10-31-2012, 09:01 PM
(Carry on...carry on DB4L...my day of vindication has come, and I have conquered.)

That's different.

Nwp-Apap
10-31-2012, 09:07 PM
Fox did quite well using an undersized LB....Thomas Davis was a college safety if memory serves me right.....he was listed as 6'1" and 225 a couple seasons ago....he's up to 235 now or so they say.

Perhaps he sees Trevathan as a likely guy to play that role on this team?

Or maybe Wesley Woodyard already is?

pricejj
10-31-2012, 11:34 PM
Or maybe Wesley Woodyard already is?

I see the Broncos running a lot of 4-2 Nickel and 5-2 the rest of the year...as long as they can continue to stop the run with it.


The Broncos need two, fast LB's, who can both stop the run effectively, and cover a TE/RB. It's gonna be DJ and WW, with DJ being the MIKE (just like the plays he tweeted). Trevathan has earned his time, and won't give it up easy...which is how you want it.

Fox and JDR are on to something here...it might just get us to the Superbowl.

Bronco Rob
11-12-2012, 12:43 AM
With their seven sacks, the Broncos have 32 and took over the NFL's sack lead. Broncos had 7 sacks, 2 ints, one being a pick 6, held Carolina on 3rd down conversions (0-12) and scored TD's on offense, defense and special teams.



:thumbs:

lonestar
11-12-2012, 12:55 AM
I see the Broncos running a lot of 4-2 Nickel and 5-2 the rest of the year...as long as they can continue to stop the run with it.


The Broncos need two, fast LB's, who can both stop the run effectively, and cover a TE/RB. It's gonna be DJ and WW, with DJ being the MIKE (just like the plays he tweeted). Trevathan has earned his time, and won't give it up easy...which is how you want it.

Fox and JDR are on to something here...it might just get us to the Superbowl.

Here we go again DJ is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

He redid his contract at a cut in pay to come back to the team.

Does that sound like he is expecting a heros welcome?

He is coming back with his tail between his legs protecting his sack.

Unless something drastic happens injury wise he will not see the field except to spell someone.

The front seven has done extraordinary things so far this year without him, to insert him into that would not only disrupt continuity but be a slap in the face to all that actually played by the rules and were not dumb asses.

John E has worked very hard to bring in class players since he got here. DJ is not one he would have signed if he was not already here.
To top it all off they expect him to take a couple of weeks to even get into game shape.
Dj will not be a bronco next year.

lonestar
11-12-2012, 12:59 AM
With their seven sacks, the Broncos have 32 and took over the NFL's sack lead. Broncos had 7 sacks, 2 ints, one being a pick 6, held Carolina on 3rd down conversions (0-12) and scored TD's on offense, defense and special teams.



:thumbs:

I think you meant to say. Instead of AND. scored TD's on offense, defense and special teams.

the team scored TD's on offense, defense and special teams.

Bronco Rob
11-12-2012, 01:33 AM
The Panthers were 0-12 on 3rd down conversions today vs the Broncos. The only other team to go without a 3rd down conversion this season was the Jaguars (0-9 in Week 2 vs the Texans). The Panthers are the first team to go 0-12 or worse on 3rd down since the Bills went 0-12 against the Dolphins (Week 11 in 2011)





:strong:

Bronco Rob
11-13-2012, 03:37 PM
Defense: A

Miller has had better games statistically than he did Sunday; just seven days earlier he sacked Cincinnati QB Andy Dalton three times. But never has he been more disruptive. He sacked Newton once, pressured him from behind to force the errant throw that CB Tony Carter turned into a 40-yard return for a touchdown and was so intimidating that by the fourth quarter, Panthers TE Greg Olsen practically waved him by rather than attempting to block him on a run play. The only negative was coverage that allowed Olsen to get wide open twice downfield for deep receptions on the Panthers' first scoring drive, but the Broncos rebounded. Midway through the fourth quarter, the Panthers' offense was so defeated that it had averaged just 3.6 inches per play in the 20 plays that followed halftime. It's also telling that the defense again accounted for points, scoring nine on Carter's return and a Mike Adams safety.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/nfl-rapidreports/20955851/broncos-report-card-defense-special-teams-stepping-up

baja
11-13-2012, 03:41 PM
Defense: A

Miller has had better games statistically than he did Sunday; just seven days earlier he sacked Cincinnati QB Andy Dalton three times. But never has he been more disruptive. He sacked Newton once, pressured him from behind to force the errant throw that CB Tony Carter turned into a 40-yard return for a touchdown and was so intimidating that by the fourth quarter, Panthers TE Greg Olsen practically waved him by rather than attempting to block him on a run play. The only negative was coverage that allowed Olsen to get wide open twice downfield for deep receptions on the Panthers' first scoring drive, but the Broncos rebounded. Midway through the fourth quarter, the Panthers' offense was so defeated that it had averaged just 3.6 inches per play in the 20 plays that followed halftime. It's also telling that the defense again accounted for points, scoring nine on Carter's return and a Mike Adams safety.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/nfl-rapidreports/20955851/broncos-report-card-defense-special-teams-stepping-up

Misprint???

Action
11-13-2012, 03:54 PM
Misprint???

No.

Bronco Rob
11-14-2012, 04:44 AM
John Lynch (Fox Sports, 5) - The Broncos are getting better as a team every week. All phases are pitching in. The defense held Cam Newton and the Panthers to 0 for 12 on third down.


Pat Kirwan (SiriusXM NFL Radio/CBSSports.com, 2) - The Broncos defense held the Panthers to 2.5 yards per carry, sacked Newton 7 times, and hit him another seven times.







http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/20970004/ap-pro32-comments-about-broncos

Bronco Rob
11-17-2012, 01:26 AM
Reunited with Fox, Del Rio charges up Denver 'D'


By EDDIE PELLS AP National Writer Nov. 15, 2012 5:22 PM ET


ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) - There are a few more lines around the eyes, each of them a symbol of some lesson learned during a head-coaching tenure that lasted nearly a decade, had its share of success but ended badly for Jack Del Rio in Jacksonville.

Some things, however, haven't changed.

The Broncos defensive coordinator, now 49 and reunited with John Fox in the same role he had a decade ago in Carolina, is still a formidable presence whenever he walks onto a football field. And the schemes the NFL linebacker-turned-coach crafts still make life very difficult for offenses around the league.

Asked to describe his approach to defense without using the word "aggressive" - because, really, what defensive coordinator doesn't want to be aggressive? - Del Rio laughed.

"Aggressive," he said. "I don't know. There are a lot of good people out there doing a lot of good things. From my standpoint, the No. 1 thing we want to do is create a culture where players understand the things they're being asked to do. That they build a confidence playing for each other, with each other. And that in the end, you play fast."

Denver's seventh defensive coordinator in seven years has the Broncos (6-3) playing fast, and at a level this defense hasn't reached in a while. Yes, they are ranked a more-than-respectable sixth in yards allowed and 10th in points allowed, in the running to finish with the best statistics in those categories since the mid-2000s. But they are also ranked second in sacks per pass play and, with four touchdowns and a pair of safeties, are making the kind of plays that swing games.

They are building a reputation as a swarming, playmaking and, yes, aggressive group, which is just how Del Rio coaches it, especially when the talent is there to make it happen. Had it worked this well in Jacksonville over the past few years, the coach might still be there. Instead, he got released 11 games into last season with a 69-73 career record.

Some might have sat it out for a while, let some wounds heal and, in Del Rio's case, collected some easy paychecks, which could have totaled up to around $5 million.

Not this coach, who Thursday was standing in the midst of his defenders at the start of practice, shouting, listening, correcting and at one point, insisting the players "get this (expletive) down" by the end of the day.

"I love coaching," he said. "And this was a good opportunity for me to get hooked up with a guy I respect and a program that's first class."

Indeed, when Fox came calling, Del Rio knew he could get right back into his comfort zone: Coaching defense alongside one of the men he came up with; working in the room with players; getting back to the kind of routine that wasn't available as much when he was a head coach, where PR, delegating to staff and big-picture decision-making often overshadows the Xs and Os.

"That's something you probably kind of miss after a while," Fox said. "It kind of re-energizes you. I think he's having fun doing it."

No doubt, Del Rio said.

"When we interviewed, I said, `Hey, I don't mind being an assistant strength coach again,"' Del Rio said. "I love ball with the right people, right organization. I love to be a member on the staff and going through the grind and having my feet in the grass and having a chance to touch some players. That's what I have a passion for."

Del Rio's last two stops in his 11-year NFL playing career were in Dallas, where he played for Jimmy Johnson, and Minnesota, where Tony Dungy was the defensive coordinator. It was Johnson's "all-in mentality," as Del Rio called it, and Dungy's ability to coach, teach but not dwell on failure that got Del Rio thinking about the kind of coach he'd like to be someday.

He started in New Orleans as, yes, the assistant strength coach, then moved to Baltimore to coach the linebackers from 1999-2001. Led by Ray Lewis, the Ravens won the Super Bowl in 2001. Del Rio left Baltimore to join Fox in Carolina in 2002, where he transformed the defense from 32nd-ranked to second in the span of a season.

Impressed with that sudden bout of success, and looking to inject some new, young energy into the franchise after firing Tom Coughlin, Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver bypassed coaches with more experience and took a chance on Del Rio, who with blue eyes, blond hair, standing 6-foot-4 and still close to his 240-pound playing weight was a made-for-TV presence in a city looking for a football star.

He had also proven he could coach a little, though the perils of going with a guy who had never been the head man reared their head early. There was the infamous tree stump Del Rio put in the locker room. Message: Keep chopping wood, but when punter Chris Hanson did, he swung the ax nearly through his shin and had to be rushed to the hospital.

The coach had trouble managing changes at the quarterback position involving Mark Brunell, Byron Leftwich and David Garrard. There was a revolving door of assistant coaches and two playoff appearances to show for eight-plus years on the job.

Through it all, though, the players played hard for Del Rio. And, of course, staying in the same job for that long in the NFL is a victory of sorts, no matter how it ends.

"Certainly, I'm a much better coach now," Del Rio said. "I got a wealth of experience. You learn from good and bad. I feel like a better coach at this point. I still have all my fire and desire and energy, which is why I'm doing what I'm doing now."

By returning to his roots - running the defense - Del Rio gets to go back to what he's best at: Connecting with players, devising schemes that bring out their best, which, in Del Rio's mind, is what coaching is supposed to be all about.

"When I was in college, I started hearing about him and we used to watch the Jaguars defense," said Broncos linebacker Wesley Woodyard, who leads the team in tackles and has earned an AFC Defensive Player of the Week honor in Del Rio's scheme. "They used to always talk about him and the stuff he runs. He's one of those guys who's always amped and believes in his players. And him being a past linebacker, it makes it easier for us to follow him, look up to him and believe in him."

The subplot in all this is that the success of the Denver defense could make Del Rio a popular choice to become a head coach again. That's a particularly delicate topic for the Broncos, who lost Dennis Allen to the Raiders after last season and haven't had a defensive coordinator serve back-to-back seasons since Larry Coyer from 2003-06.

No problem from the boss's point of view.

"Whenever you hire an assistant coach, you want them to have high aspirations," Fox said. "You want to hire people who may have that ability. Otherwise, you're not hiring the best people."

Del Rio says he doesn't look beyond the next Sunday, which in this case is a rematch with the Chargers. If Denver wins, it takes a three-game lead in the AFC West. Knowing far more about life as a head coach than when he took the job in Jacksonville, Del Rio says there's no rush to move up the ladder again.

"When you're a young guy and you haven't been there, the urgency and desire to get that opportunity is such that you'd take just about any job given to you," Del Rio said. "I don't feel that way now. If there's something that fits and the right situation comes along, so be it. But in the meantime, I'm all in, 100 percent as a lieutenant on this staff. I'm somebody that John Fox, John Elway ... and the players can count on. I'm 100 percent invested in helping them be their best.





http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/20997617/reunited-with-fox-del-rio-charges-up-denver-d

CEH
11-17-2012, 05:28 AM
Here's an odd fact. Since the ESPN QBR started Denver has the highest QBR differential between Manning and his opponents somthing like +53

The highest to date was the 2009 New Orleans Saints who happened to win the Super Bowl that year at +44

Basically when your QB is the best QB on the field game game in and game out good things tend to happen

baja
11-17-2012, 07:12 AM
Del Rio said. "I love ball with the right people, right organization. I love to be a member on the staff and going through the grind and having my feet in the grass and having a chance to touch some players. That's what I have a passion for."

So did he attend Penn State?

Bronco Rob
11-17-2012, 01:04 PM
Here's an odd fact. Since the ESPN QBR started Denver has the highest QBR differential between Manning and his opponents somthing like +53

The highest to date was the 2009 New Orleans Saints who happened to win the Super Bowl that year at +44

Basically when your QB is the best QB on the field game game in and game out good things tend to happen



:thumbs:

errand
11-17-2012, 03:43 PM
Basically when your QB is the best QB on the field game game in and game out good things tend to happen


Wow, imagine that........

pricejj
11-17-2012, 05:14 PM
#10 in scoring b****es...


Del Rio is a Defensive genius.

bowtown
11-17-2012, 06:12 PM
Fox also deserves a ton of credit for this defense.